Todd Stephenson

And are they upholding themselves ethically?

Whether they are, you know...

have a modern interpretation of treaty rights, etc.

We think that's completely out of balance.

Well, no, we actually do have a draft bill, Mike.

It's actually been done overseas in Canada.

So we think there is a way of doing this.

And look, the other egregious cases are things like the Teachers' Council.

You've probably heard of this case where they actually made a submission on the Treaty Principles Bill, so something close to Axe Heart.

And then a teacher publicly disagreed with their position of making a submission and was gone after publicly.

So, yeah, they're the other kinds of examples.

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah.

And look, it's really good that the Public Service Commission is looking into it.

You know, ministers need to be able to trust the advice that they're being given by their officials.

And

Obfuscating, hiding, obviously changing how things are presented, completely unacceptable.

Look, I'd like to say no, but there are some other examples that have been brought to my attention.

Luckily, they've been picked up by other ministers.

But look, I think we just need to make sure that the public service is serving the government of the day.