Tom Holland

Well, Scipio Aemilianus is much younger, so it's probably Tabby.

Actually, it seems not.

I think that Scipio Africanus...

Because he was the guy who had forced terms on the Carthaginians and got them to accept these terms, he then felt a certain kind of responsibility towards Carthage, because it's a bit like a patron with a client.

That is a relationship that is very important to the Roman aristocracy.

And I think that Scipio Africanus, you know, he took this seriously.

So for instance, for as long as Hannibal was in Carthage, Scipio Africanus back in Rome had had Hannibal's back.

And I think all the kind of the various members of Scipio's dynasty, they share in this obligation.

So we can see this from Polybius, who is obviously very influenced by what the Scipio dynasty think.

So he's always describing how the Carthaginians are going to Rome to complain about Massinissa slicing off bits of their territory.

And Polybius, you know, I mean, he emphasizes that these complaints are just.

And presumably in saying that, he is picking up on the opinion of his Scipionic patrons.

But I think it's fair to say that this in Rome is a minority position.

And there is one person in particular who views any kind of attempt to water down the harshness with which Carthage is treated as essentially a form of treason.

And this is the old enemy of Scipio Africanus.

So again, we met in the last episode, Marcus Porcius Cato.

Who by this point, he's just turned 80, but he is as flinty and as hardcore as ever.

So that kind of, you know, that ginger hair that he had has gone.

He's now terrifyingly bald and got lots of crow feet and jowls.

Well, I think there are good reasons for hating him, as we will see as this episode progresses.