Tom Holland

Abbreviated, it's become one of the most notorious of all Latin aphorisms.

Carthago delenda est.

Carthage must be destroyed.

I think if you're saying destroy a city, you are effectively saying destroy a people.

To destroy the mother city of a people effectively is to destroy a people.

So I think it's, I mean, it's anachronistic, but I think there is that element in it.

And I think that people should be aware of what is being planned, the scale of what is being planned.

I mean, it is horrific.

And some of the Romans think it's horrific, right?

Absolutely.

There are senators in Rome who oppose Cato.

And of course, many of these belong to the dynasty of Scipio Africanus.

And one of them, a guy called Scipio Nassica, he's coined his own catchphrase to counter Cato's.

So his is,

Listeners may be wondering, what's his motivation in coming up with this catchphrase?

Is it because he has a sense of humanity, a concern for human rights?

Is it from the depths of his kindness?

It is not.

A concern with being kind does not really seem to have been a factor.

Those who are arguing against a war of annihilation against Carthage,