Tom Nichols

We can't become the kinds of people that democracies require if we keep lying to ourselves about who we are.

And I think being honest, that decency isn't the defining attribute of the American public.

It's something that we aspire to be.

But as human beings...

right?

We are fraught and fallen, and we can tell a story about that.

Well, I'm horrified by it for sure.

I think it points to a level of greed and selfishness that clearly threaten American democracy.

And I think there is this ongoing calculus that informs decision making.

How can I get in on the grift?

And then you combine that with fear and cowardice and we get what we have.

And, you know, I think this has been going on for a while, Nicole.

We've witnessed over the last four decades an erosion of any robust conception of the public good.

And that has happened in part because of an unleashing of an economic logic driven by selfishness and greed.

And then when you layer on that grievance, all hell breaks loose.

Tom?

No, I think that's absolutely right.

And, you know, I keep thinking about James Baldwin, right?

As I always do, right?

Baldwin says we're at once miracles and sons of bitches.