Tom Papa

Yeah, and they go out to events and they do all the stuff that I say no to.

Because I've run out of steam.

But that had to be a great time.

I mean, man, I mean, in New York, at the Times, having stuff coming out.

That had to be, yeah.

I went over and visited, I brought my daughter to see Sam Sifton.

He took us through, I forget what we were doing,

He had put me in the times as making a bread.

It was actually a really important moment because I had been making bread for six weeks.

And somehow he heard that I had a sourdough starter and they did a story on bread again.

And we became friendly after that.

And he brought my daughter through.

And just to be like a college student kind of...

who has a writing interest and just to walk through that building and see all these young people and older people just mixing and it was inspiring to both of us.

Yeah, it was really pretty great.

To be cut loose of the journalist deadline,

That had to be a relief, but also disorienting, I would think.

Yeah.

Yeah, just that.

That thing.