Torsten Reil

So I think what happened is that the VCs that really get defense, and there are a number, have already kind of made their bets on defense companies. There is now kind of a second or third wave of VCs that go into defense and fund technology teams, which is fine in a way. But my question to those VCs would be like, what is the exit route for those companies? Who's going to buy them? You or Andrew?

So I think what happened is that the VCs that really get defense, and there are a number, have already kind of made their bets on defense companies. There is now kind of a second or third wave of VCs that go into defense and fund technology teams, which is fine in a way. But my question to those VCs would be like, what is the exit route for those companies? Who's going to buy them? You or Andrew?

Yeah, but we can't buy all of those companies. And also the question is whether we would buy them at VC valuations. I mean, the exit opportunities for companies are either an IPO. For that, you need to be a prime. You need to be multi-domain.

Yeah, but we can't buy all of those companies. And also the question is whether we would buy them at VC valuations. I mean, the exit opportunities for companies are either an IPO. For that, you need to be a prime. You need to be multi-domain.

Yeah, but we can't buy all of those companies. And also the question is whether we would buy them at VC valuations. I mean, the exit opportunities for companies are either an IPO. For that, you need to be a prime. You need to be multi-domain.

You have to have all of the foundation of having built software infrastructure, everything around security, physical security, cybersecurity, government relations, export law, compliance, and everything else. That all has to happen. And then you have a shot. I thought building a customer success team. It is. Defense is so complex.

You have to have all of the foundation of having built software infrastructure, everything around security, physical security, cybersecurity, government relations, export law, compliance, and everything else. That all has to happen. And then you have a shot. I thought building a customer success team. It is. Defense is so complex.

You have to have all of the foundation of having built software infrastructure, everything around security, physical security, cybersecurity, government relations, export law, compliance, and everything else. That all has to happen. And then you have a shot. I thought building a customer success team. It is. Defense is so complex.

Like having built a games company, which I thought was pretty hard, defense is just on a different level. Impossible, I think, if you don't have a founder team that already has experience in some of the areas.

Like having built a games company, which I thought was pretty hard, defense is just on a different level. Impossible, I think, if you don't have a founder team that already has experience in some of the areas.

Like having built a games company, which I thought was pretty hard, defense is just on a different level. Impossible, I think, if you don't have a founder team that already has experience in some of the areas.

I think for some of the more fragmented tail, maybe not to zero, but I think they're going to go down. Where is the biggest opportunity to deploy dollars in defense today? I mean, I'm biased, but I think it is around those companies that have got to scale, that have programs of record, and that are basically active in a conflict.

I think for some of the more fragmented tail, maybe not to zero, but I think they're going to go down. Where is the biggest opportunity to deploy dollars in defense today? I mean, I'm biased, but I think it is around those companies that have got to scale, that have programs of record, and that are basically active in a conflict.

I think for some of the more fragmented tail, maybe not to zero, but I think they're going to go down. Where is the biggest opportunity to deploy dollars in defense today? I mean, I'm biased, but I think it is around those companies that have got to scale, that have programs of record, and that are basically active in a conflict.

The difference between a company that, first of all, maybe R&D contracts and has a program of record, that is already a big difference because getting over that hump of getting a program of record is huge.

The difference between a company that, first of all, maybe R&D contracts and has a program of record, that is already a big difference because getting over that hump of getting a program of record is huge.

The difference between a company that, first of all, maybe R&D contracts and has a program of record, that is already a big difference because getting over that hump of getting a program of record is huge.

It's an official program by a government that has a certain size, rather than, I mentioned the Eurofighter electronic warfare upgrade, that was officially awarded, companies pitched for it, and eventually consortia pitched for it, and eventually consortia won it, which is SAP and us in the end. Those happen regularly, and they tend to be quite large. They run over several years.

It's an official program by a government that has a certain size, rather than, I mentioned the Eurofighter electronic warfare upgrade, that was officially awarded, companies pitched for it, and eventually consortia pitched for it, and eventually consortia won it, which is SAP and us in the end. Those happen regularly, and they tend to be quite large. They run over several years.

It's an official program by a government that has a certain size, rather than, I mentioned the Eurofighter electronic warfare upgrade, that was officially awarded, companies pitched for it, and eventually consortia pitched for it, and eventually consortia won it, which is SAP and us in the end. Those happen regularly, and they tend to be quite large. They run over several years.