Travis Hoium

It's not really a bubble until no one thinks it's a bubble.

It seems like we're there now.

Not only are the hyperscalers now adding debt, you have companies like the Neoclouds that have a ton of debt.

You have Oracle, which now has over $100 billion worth of debt.

They were supposed to be one of the winners of the OpenAI build-out.

There's that debt.

There's that leverage there.

There's also...

you know, plenty of people who don't think this is a bubble.

I think there's a lot of people right now with this amount of spending.

Hey, if these companies are going to keep growing their spending, how can this possibly be a bubble?

Is that a concern?

It's like a who blinks first kind of a scenario.

Well, it's going to be fascinating to see how this plays out because the numbers, even to those of us who follow this on a day-to-day basis, I think are shocking at this point.

When we come back, we're going to talk about some of the downstream impacts of AI and that's causing a SaaS-pocalypse.

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If you have followed the market at all over the past week or two, you can see that SaaS stocks have been absolutely hammered in 2026, and the selling seems to be getting worse by the day.

The theory seems to be that AI is going to do everything that software companies do today.

But my big question is, John, if the software companies aren't going to be valuable and aren't going to be making money, who pays for all the AI?