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Trenton Bricken

๐Ÿ‘ค Speaker
See mentions of this person in podcasts
1589 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

Dwarkesh Podcast
Is RL + LLMs enough for AGI? โ€” Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken

I think we got to drink the bitter lesson here.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Is RL + LLMs enough for AGI? โ€” Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken

And yeah, like there aren't infinite shortcuts.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Is RL + LLMs enough for AGI? โ€” Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken

Like you do just have to scale.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Is RL + LLMs enough for AGI? โ€” Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken

Something's going to have a bigger model and pay more inference for it.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Is RL + LLMs enough for AGI? โ€” Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken

And if you want AGI, then that's what you got to pay the price of.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Is RL + LLMs enough for AGI? โ€” Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken

And even in the last year, there's been much more of a factor of the inference cost, right?

Dwarkesh Podcast
Is RL + LLMs enough for AGI? โ€” Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken

So just explicitly, like, the bigger the model, the more expensive it is to do a forward pass and generate tokens.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Is RL + LLMs enough for AGI? โ€” Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken

And the calculus used to just be, should I allocate my flops to more training data or a bigger model?

Dwarkesh Podcast
Is RL + LLMs enough for AGI? โ€” Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken

And now another huge factor is, how much am I actually going to do forward passes on this model once it's trained?

Dwarkesh Podcast
Is RL + LLMs enough for AGI? โ€” Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken

And then even within inference, there's all this research on, well, what strategy should I use?

Dwarkesh Podcast
Is RL + LLMs enough for AGI? โ€” Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken

Should I sample 10 and take the best?

Dwarkesh Podcast
Is RL + LLMs enough for AGI? โ€” Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken

Do I do this sort of like branching search, et cetera, et cetera?

Dwarkesh Podcast
Is RL + LLMs enough for AGI? โ€” Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken

And so with RL, where you're sampling a whole lot of tokens, you also need to factor in the ability for the model to like actually generate those tokens and then learn and get feedback.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Is RL + LLMs enough for AGI? โ€” Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken

I would say some combination of like get rid of the sunk cost of your like previous workflows or expertise in order to evaluate what AI can do for you.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Is RL + LLMs enough for AGI? โ€” Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken

That's right.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Is RL + LLMs enough for AGI? โ€” Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken

And another way to put this, which is fun, is just like be lazier.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Is RL + LLMs enough for AGI? โ€” Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken

in so much as figure out the way that the agent can do the things that are toilsome.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Is RL + LLMs enough for AGI? โ€” Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken

Ultimately, you get to be lazier, but in the short run, you need to critically think about the things you're currently doing and what an AI could actually be better at doing, and then go and try it or explore it.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Is RL + LLMs enough for AGI? โ€” Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken

Because I think there's still just a lot of low-hanging fruit of people assuming and not writing the full prompt, giving a few examples, connecting the right tools.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Is RL + LLMs enough for AGI? โ€” Sholto Douglas & Trenton Bricken

for your work to be accelerated and automated.