Tristan Harris

Like I just drink Instagram.

I just live in this environment.

And so while like I saw billions of people enter into this psychological habitat that I knew the handful of like five or six people that were designing and tweaking it and making it work a certain way.

Yeah, exactly.

And I think that that's just like a fundamental thing I want people to get is...

You know, you think of technology like it just lands and it's just inevitable and there's just nothing we can do and it just comes from above.

And it's like there are human beings making choices.

And, you know, as someone who grew up in the era of, you know, the Macintosh, like my co-founder, I have a nonprofit called the Center for Humane Technology.

My co-founder, Aza Raskin, his father invented the Macintosh project before Steve Jobs took it over.

So this is the original Macintosh, you know, the thing that we now, the MacBook, the iMac, the MacBook Pro.

All of that started with his father, Jeff Raskin.

And the idea of creating humane technology where technology could be choicefully designed...

to be really easy to use, to be accessible, to be an empowering extension of our humanity, like a cello, like a piano, like a creative tool.

Like if you're a video person, you can make films and videos.

And just so people understand, because we're probably going to be talking about some darker things on this podcast, the premise of all this is not to be a speaker of doom or something like that.

It's to say...

I want to live in a world where technology is in service of people and connection and all of the things that matter to us as humans and then have technology wrap around ergonomically us to create that.

So that was kind of a side journey.

There I was at Google in 2012, 2013, and I saw how essentially there was this arms race for human attention and whichever company was willing to go lower on the brainstem to

to manipulate human psychology.