Trita Parsi

The whole tone at the UNO conference this time was more regime change than I've ever seen before.

Wow.

And I think, again, these are some new developments, not to say that there hasn't been any route for it or that it's been always perfectly different before.

But remember, 2003, the Europeans went out of their way to stop the regime change war in Iraq, and they paid a very high price for it.

Back then, Germany, France took the lead, and they had all of Europe, with the exception of some eastern states...

and the UK on their side, fighting against that war because of its illegality, because of its neo-colonial character, and because it was regime change.

That is not what we're seeing right now.

In many ways, Europe has already changed, but this is still taking them a much more explicit step in the direction that it should embrace its

colonial past.

It should embrace its pursuit of empire.

And I have to tell you, as much as the Europeans are increasingly saying, look, we can't stand up for international law.

We just have to do whatever it wants to say.

The idea that there would be an embrace of empire is still a step that I don't think most Europeans have been willing to take so far.

Well, if you want to drive matters in the direction of a great power competition, this is what you have to do, right?

You have to rebuke these lessons because these lessons were there to make sure that we didn't have another great power competition in the world.

And on the point about these institutions, I totally agree with you.

I think I've said it on the show before.

Not only did the United States play a critical role in establishing these institutions, but

Blood, in many cases, obviously in need of significant reform, particularly the UN.

Pushing it back towards more focus on peace and security, I think, would be a good thing.