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Appearances
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
It was a very, very difficult experience for our entire office. as well as the Anderson family. I mean, this is really one of our own. We welcome students into this community, the Binghamton University family, and when something like this happens, it's just devastating.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
The university offered counseling for students and made services available to them.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
We had learned that he had family down in Nicaragua as well as here. He was a US citizen and had dual citizenship with Nicaragua.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
We got calls from media from all over the country.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
National manhunt launched for the former boyfriend of a nursing student found dead in upstate New York.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
Reporters who spoke to one student who said she was shocked when she heard the news.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
There was a warrant issued for him to be brought back.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
Our understanding was that he would actually stand trial in Broome County.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
It feels good to get a feeling that hopefully justice will be served. You know, right now it's kind of hard to look at the bright side of things.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
Once we had learned that he had been taken into custody down in Nicaragua, our office was very busy trying to meet with the State Department, contact Washington D.C. in a way to get him extradited back to Broome County, New York to stand trial. Great efforts were made by our local government, federal government to try and get this individual back.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
This was a very unique situation, something that I had never come across in my 25 years as a prosecutor. My understanding regarding the extradition treaties that are in place are that if he is a citizen of both countries that they have the option to have him tried in Nicaragua or be brought back to the United States to face trial.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
There came a point in time when the authorities in Nicaragua made it clear to our local government and our federal government that he was going to be tried down there, based on the fact that he was a citizen of Nicaragua.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
We don't have that law in New York State. We have murder in the second degree. That's what he was charged with in this case under New York law.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
We did everything that we could to help Haley's family through the process, but we were learning the process ourselves at the same time trying to explain it to them. But we were gonna do everything that we could to make sure that Haley's family got justice.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
We actually had our grand jury room outfitted as a courtroom with all the technology in order to connect with Nicaragua. Sometimes there were mechanical glitches or technical difficulties to hook up with them by satellite.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
We were dispatched to a female cell not breathing when I arrived.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
Laying on the bed. Estaba acostada en la cama. On her back.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
My friend app was showing that Hallie Anderson's cell phone was inside the apartment.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
We had to bring in witnesses from all over the country. They were actually questioned by the prosecutors. We did not question them. They were just put on the video and were interviewed by the prosecutors down in Nicaragua.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
They stated that Hallie had hooked up with Orlando Tercero a couple of times, but did not want anything serious with him.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
That he was obsessed with her. And that at one time he had slashed her vehicle's tires.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
In the United States, you have a jury trial where you have to convince 12 people beyond a reasonable doubt of the defendant's guilt. Nicaragua used the judge having the authority to make the decision as to whether someone is guilty or not guilty. So we didn't know anything about this judge. We didn't know what the judge was going to do. It was a very stressful time for everyone involved.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
In November of 2019, Orlando was convicted of femicide. We knew that the sentence could be up to 30 years in prison, and we were somewhat relieved at that point, knowing that Haley's family would get justice.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
We're very pleased with the judge's decision and we believe it was the right decision.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
There's an outstanding warrant for him, and he's ready to be tried in New York State. The maximum sentence in New York State for murder in the second degree is 25 years to life. Now, would we bring him back to be tried a second time? Decisions would have to be made down the line. His defense attorney in New York State, as well as down in Nicaragua, would argue that double jeopardy attaches.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
Our position is that it doesn't attach. It's a separate country, and he could be tried here. But the... The decision obviously won't be made by me if he continues his 30-year sentence, but the family would be contacted and we would want their input onto whether you would bring this guy back to the United States.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 2: Haley Anderson
She's never coming home. And that is the saddest part. Haley's death is forever. I'm sorry. I need a tissue. Oh.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
with Capella University. Learn more at capella.edu.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
I definitely didn't want to stay in that house anymore. We were not technically detained, but in my opinion, detained. We got brought to a separate facility that LSU had. They took our phones and everything. We weren't allowed to talk to each other, and they took each of our statements.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
We called all the fratmen, fraternity members in, and we're going to talk with each of y'all about what knowledge y'all have of the events that took place last night, this morning, regarding Max.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Law enforcement was smart enough to know we have to keep interviewing people, because this isn't just a normal case. People don't get that blood alcohol content in their blood at a normal college park.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Look, I don't know if anybody is a suspect. I don't know if everybody is a suspect. I don't know anything, and that's the only reason we're doing this right now.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
That was really the pinnacle of when all of us kind of realized, like, holy cow, the severity of this situation. Like, he's gone.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
I'm trying to get a picture for this young man's family who are flying down from Georgia, which I'm sure I can't even imagine what's going through their mind.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Enough information is given to give the police an idea that there was a hazing event, a pledge event the night that Max passed away, that it did occur at the fraternity house.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
And reports are that as the night went on, as the ritual went on, Max started being particularly targeted.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
And that things looked like he was particularly targeted for this night of excessive drinking and hazing.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Actives told us to come to Bible study, that's what they call it.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
We were told to get there at 4.10, don't be late.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
We'd heard about Bible study, guys mentioning it casually, actives to each other and stuff like that. Our Bible was our Phi Chi manual, so that's your pledge manual, essentially a book they give to every new member pledge that gives you history of the fraternity, even things like etiquette and where you should put forks and knives when you're setting up a table.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
So everything that you need to know about the fraternity is supposed to be in that book. It's supposed to be your best friend read it throughout its entirety, probably 40 times that you know it all like the back of your hand. So we finally got the message like, hey, you know, be here tonight for Bible study. Bring your manual and all that stuff.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
And so we were like, OK, like, let's see what this is about. We really had no kind of clue what we were going to step into. We just knew it was going to be some sort of hazing type of thing. You feel like what you're walking into, you're gonna walk out of and you're gonna be safe and fine, but hindsight, that's just not the reality of it.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
We know that Max arrived at approximately 9.50 p.m.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
He was dropped off by two of his female friends that were not associated with the fraternity. And according to them, Max had not been drinking prior to the Bible study and had not done any illegal substances prior to the Bible study.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
In the small amount of time that Max was on this planet, he made us better people.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
There were probably 10 to 15, maybe upwards of 20 pledges there, but no more than 20 pledges for the Bible study.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
They'd only been pledges for a couple of weeks at this point.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Formal fraternity recruitment at LSU, which we all call RUSH, is very structured. Obviously, everyone's putting their best face forward. But just receiving a bid or an invitation to join does not mean you're gonna end up being an active brother or get initiated.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
During the pledge period, for lack of a better term, pledges are having to prove themselves to the active members.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Pledges are kind of expected to be on call 24-7, whether it's bringing a brother to a class or picking him up some lunch, going to clean his house or apartment, really anything and everything under the sun, you're probably gonna get asked to do. There's definitely some men who respect the lines that come with the pledges, but there's plenty, plenty that abuse those favors.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
A lot of the typical abusers of those pledge favors tend to take pride in the fact that they do that. And a lot of those guys tended to talk negatively towards you. They kind of made you feel like you were a separate group from this brotherhood you were trying to join and made you feel like you were lesser than and you had to really earn your spot here.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
And it really kind of messes up your experience during that pledge process. A lot of the things that you get asked to do are hazing, but I was never scared to go grab someone's food or, you know, go clean their apartment or any of that stuff. But that looming invite of, you know, come here for this, come to the house now, everyone needs to be here.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
You always get a bit of anxiety when you're taking that ride over to the house or walking to the house, just not knowing what you're about to go through once you get inside the doors.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
They gave off the air that we wouldn't go through anything like this.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
I was a student reporter at the time. And gosh, I don't even think we were a month into school yet before the breaking news came. and it was like all hell broke loose. No one knew what to do.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
News teams from everywhere, CNN, ABC, NBC, everyone coming on campus just to figure out what happened. All of a sudden, the university president, F. King Alexander, there's a big press conference.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
This evening, representatives of every fraternity and sorority on campus held a closed door meeting about the incident. Any comments on the meeting, guys? I don't have anything to say.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
We learned that that night the actives were asking the pledges to get in a line downstairs. The actives we know are present at the Bible study are Matthew Nochan, a sophomore. Ryan Istow was also a sophomore. He was Matthew Nochan's roommate when Sean Paul got, who was a junior and he had a room in the house. They take their cell phones.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
And the way that the Phi Delta Theta house is laid out, the common area is downstairs. And the entire upstairs is just one long hallway with bedrooms on either side. And Matthew Nockin tells all the Pledges to go upstairs.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
They had all the upstairs lights off. And they had a strobe light. and loud music.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
And that's when the real like yelling, yelling started and we're all told like, all right, turn around and put your nose against the wall.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
The pledges are turning, being asked esoteric questions about the fraternity and other things.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Founding fathers, notable alumni, founding history, founding dates. Any of the history that some of the actives knew and wanted to ask you, if you get it right, it goes to the next person. If you get it wrong, you take a pull of alcohol.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
They were just drinking it straight out of the bottle? Yes, sir.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
for as long as the member standing in front of him told him to drink.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Take a five-second pull. One of them told me to take a five-second, and I didn't want to. I was like, can I take a three-second? He was like, no, take a five-second. And I did.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
And there was a mix of alcohol at the beginning, Captain Morgan, but it eventually became almost exclusively diesel. 190 proof alcohol.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Regular liquor is 80 proof. This has twice the potency.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Basically the strongest alcohol you can make.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
It smells like gasoline and tastes probably worse than I would expect gasoline to taste like. And I was not quite prepared for diesel or any of that kind of stuff to be used.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
They realized once they were asked to take the first drink of it, how potent it was.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
And we were able to find some bottles that had been left behind at the house.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
As witnesses were coming forward and talking to law enforcement, Matthew Nachman's name kept coming up over and over again.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Were any of the actors more vocal and a little bit more out of the box, pushing the drinking than others? Absolutely. Who were the more aggressive ones?
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Most of the other actives just filtered in and out. Naquin was one of the only ones there, the entirety of it.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
It's a name that you probably heard over and over again, Matthew Naquin. Matthew Naquin. He was the most aggressive when it came to this stuff. Was he intense last night? Yes.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
He was screaming a lot. He was very upset whenever we didn't know the answers. He probably handed out the most alcohol to us.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
If Nakian ever gave it to me, it was, for me, pretty quick, chug, whatever. But every time, the couple of times that I noticed Max taking pulls, it was not a quick one, and it was also not his choice to not make it a quick one.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
He was identified by witnesses as the person leading the Bible study or one of the leaders, and also as a person who was particularly targeting Max that night.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
From the number one smash hit podcast. It was only a matter of time until Amanda's whole world came tumbling down. You're not going to believe this. Scamanda.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
New episodes Thursday nights on ABC and stream on Hulu.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
From what we understood, Matthew Naucan was the main one making Max drink that night. And that as the night progressed, Matthew Naucan honed in on Max.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
And he was asked to take more pulls and longer pulls by far than any other pledge.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
According to the pledges, Max was so intoxicated that he had a trash bag placed around his neck because they were worried he would vomit. After he had the trash bag placed around his neck is when Matthew Naucan was honing in on him and making him drink the diesel, even though he knew he was intoxicated.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
So when it ended, what happened? They just turned the lights on. We walked downstairs.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Max sat back onto a couch and very hardly, like, hit his head on the window sill behind him. And I was like, oh. So instantly, the Pledge Brothers kind of go around him, you know, and, OK, like, are you good? Are you good? No, I'm just drunk. I'm just drunk. OK, OK.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
We were going to bring him home, but, I mean, he could barely walk. So we decided the best bet was to just let him sleep it off at the house.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
All we knew about Max was that he was going to stay at the house so that an active could stay with him the rest of the night.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
The next morning, I texted some of my pledge brothers. I'm like, hey, let's go check on Max. Let's go see how hungover he is, whatever. And we walk into the fraternity house, and Max is still on the couch. And I could instantly kind of tell something was wrong. He looked pale, and he was cold to the touch. His lips had started to discolor. At that point, I said, like, I cannot feel a pulse.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
I cannot feel a pulse. So me and my couple of Pledge brothers carried, in my opinion, Max's lifeless body to a car and put him in the back seat so that he could get driven to the hospital. And that was all we knew.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
They found that his cause of death was alcohol intoxication with aspiration.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
That was probably the hardest thing is knowing that the last time you saw him, you could have, you felt like you could have done something. You noticed he was drunk and instead you went home and you weren't there for him when he really needed you. After that, my grades slipped. I dropped to about 100 pounds, and my parents made the decision with one of the LSU psychiatrists to pull me from LSU.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
I got therapy three to four times a week for the entire rest of that semester with the goal to make it back to LSU in the spring. And then from there on, it's just the constant knowing that Max is never gonna be there. And that's a best friend that I'll never get to see again.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
As the interviews progressed, we learned a lot, not only through the police department, but also through the students or the student accountability office.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Student Advocacy and Accountability is an offshoot of the LSU Dean's Office, and they look into violations of the Student Code of Conduct and make investigations whenever there's a student death. So they are making an investigation parallel separate from LSU PD. They were able to get more details about the events in the weeks leading up to Max's death.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
I would call him my best friend growing up. One reason I always looked up to Max is because he was so carefree. He would do something and say, hey, I don't care if you don't like it or if you do like it, I like it, so I'm gonna do it.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
And what we were able to ascertain was from the day that Max was going to get a bid at Phi Delta Theta, Matthew Naukin did not want him in that fraternity. And he actively didn't want him in that fraternity up until his death.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
From what we learned, Matthew Nakhan did not like Max Gruver, did not think that he was an appropriate member for his fraternity. Made it really clear that he should not be a member. In fact, Gruver was given a bid. Matthew Nakhan tore up that bid and said he's not going to be part of this.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
The next day, Max was given another bid. They wrote him another big card and was extended the invitation to pledge the fraternity.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
More telltale was the fraternity had a meeting, and they were discussing Matthew Nachan's behavior in the fraternity as a leader, and particularly as it kind of related to the pledges.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
As a part of the pledging responsibilities, Phi Delta Theta had their pledges stake out a tailgating spot the Friday night before the LSU football game. And Matthew Naucan came to that location with an airsoft gun and shot pledges.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
I remember him shooting me in the back with an airsoft gun while we're trying to set up the tailgate for the brothers for the next day, and yet we're getting pelted by BBs. And I can tell you it stung a good bit. I had a nice little mark on the back of my leg when I got shot, and it was not fun.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
After that board meeting, they had an active meeting with all of the active members of Phi Delta Theta. At that active meeting, they gave an overall reprimand to all of the active members to be safe with the pledges, to not be sadistic with them.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Also, after the meeting, a vice president, the pledge educator, specifically singled out Matthew Naucann and told him he was worried about how he was interacting with pledges. And Matthew Naucann told him, I will do what I want.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
The funeral was at St. Peter Chanel, which is the church we go to.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
I was the first person in the viewing that wasn't family. And I just saw the top of his head out of the casket and collapsed. Alex's friends were behind me and caught me and had to walk me down to it.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
It was a pretty massive funeral. It felt like I didn't really look because I was in the front and I didn't want to look at everybody. But from what I heard from all my friends, they're like, dude, it was insanely packed. There was so many people like it was almost out the church. And I was like, wow, like, that's awesome.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
That just shows like the impact he had on the community and like people around him, like they all wanted to be there.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
At that point, we believed that there's going to be criminal liability and criminal action taken by the police department. The issue, though, for us is we're dealing with a hazing statue that has no teeth.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
At that point in time, in September of 2017, there was a hazing law in effect. Only one hazing law in effect in Louisiana that had been in effect since the early 1900s.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
The law was really not designed at the time to encompass great bodily harm or death. It was just hazing some activity that students do. The law itself was like a paragraph long. The maximum punishment was $100 fine and 30 days in jail.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
There was a real concern that there would not be real accountability for the people who did this to Max.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Where the law on hazing isn't strong in a state like it wasn't in Louisiana when this happened to Max, it creates many additional hurdles for the prosecution.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
And we had to look to see, are there other laws that have been violated that fit this situation?
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
And the only law that applied was negligent homicide.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
On October 11, 2017, the LSU PD feels like they have enough information to make arrests of 10 young men.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
I remember being a reporter, and we found out early in the morning. Ten people face charges in connection to Groover's death. All are charged with hazing, and Matthew Nakhan faces an additional charge of negligent homicide. Saturday will mark exactly one month since Max Groover has passed away.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
After the LSU PD arrests, our office took on the investigation and we decided it would be a good idea to confiscate the phones of those who were arrested so that we could see if there was anything that we could present to the grand jury to let them know the level of culpability involved as it relates to these young men.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
He literally loved every second of it and the girls, all the girls on the team, they all loved him.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
And the only phone that we're not able to open after exhaustive efforts and after requesting a passcode is Matthew Naucan's phone. Ultimately, the judge ruled that he would have to give his passcode. And he was given a grace period to appeal that decision. And during that grace period, the FBI was able to open Matthew Nakian's phone. And approximately 700 files were deleted.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
We looked at the time of this deletion. Matthew Nakian's attorney was contacted on November 8 at 3 o'clock about the warrant for his client's phone. He then called Matthew Notkan. And 40 minutes after the phone call with his attorney, Matthew Notkan is deleting 700 files.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
It's obvious that someone has something to hide. There was something on the phone that somebody didn't want us to see.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
We did make efforts to restore those files, but weren't unable to recover the deleted files. When we did get into Matthew Naucan's phone, we were able to look at his search histories. And there was a specific search history a little over two weeks before Max's death for Everclear versus liquor to search what the relative potencies were. Everclear is 190 proof. Diesel is 190 proof.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
So Matthew Naucan was aware of the consequences and the risks of using this type of alcohol. This is the first time he's in the position to be able to direct pledges, and diesel 190 alcohol is the alcohol that he chooses to use that night.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
When more information started to come out, I mean, reading it, it was disgusting.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
When I went to college, I had some friends that would say, like, hazing, we don't do it that bad. And I'm like, well, the fact you're doing it at all is just messed up. You shouldn't do it at all.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
And think about one of those boys. I mean, 10 people got arrested. If one of them would have stood up and said, we're not doing this, Max Groover could possibly still be alive today.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
So after the arrests, all of these cases were taken to grand jury. And in March of 2018, the first indictment was for Matthew Naucan, and he was indicted for negligent homicide. The second indictment was for Sean Paul Gott. He was indicted for misdemeanor hazing. And the third indictment was for Ryan Istow. He was indicted for misdemeanor hazing as well. No other people were indicted.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
If you're ever in a problem with anything in your life, he was going to be there right by your side to help you get through it. He was going to be there to make you laugh and just be a kind person to you the whole time.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Ryan Istow and Sean Paul Gott, once they pled, the ball was in their court to cooperate and then also to testify truthfully at the trial against Matthew Nakhan.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Rayanne and Steve were very nice to get me a plane ticket. I flew through a hurricane to get there. The trial had already started by the time I got there, but it was a very surreal experience.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Upwards of 40 witnesses were called, and of those witnesses, 19 witnesses were pledges that were there at the Bible study that night and 10 actives.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Having to relive that night over and over is extremely emotional. It's very difficult.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
You can just picture Max throughout that night and in the morning, and, you know, it just... It's visuals you don't want to have.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
The theme throughout defense counsel's questioning and cross-examine of witnesses, he kept using the term free will. Mr. Gruver was his own free will, his own free will, his own free will. Morgan Johnson, who was the prosecutor who led this case, turned it around. And she said, let's talk about free will.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
And Mr. Nochwin had free will when he decided to grab that diesel bottle and hand it to Max and tell him to drink again and again and again. So if we want to talk about free will, let's talk about whose free will here resulted in Mr. Gruver's death.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
A fellow pledge who was next to line and Max that night said, I believe from the bottom of my heart that if Matthew Naucan wasn't in that house that night, Max Groover would still be alive. No one asked him any more questions because he said what needed to be said.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
When they read the verdict, and I just remember everyone just being on the edge of their seats and we're waiting. and everyone is holding their breath. You can hear a pin drop.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
As college years approached, Max definitely wanted to be a sports writer. That's something he enjoyed doing on a lower scale in high school.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
The jury came back in less than an hour with a guilty verdict.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
He had to serve two and a half years in Department of Correction. And then when he got out, he was subject to three years supervised probation. And if he didn't comply with supervised probation, he would go back to prison for another two and a half years. Based on what the judge heard at trial, he decided to sentence Ryan Istow and Sean Paul Gott.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
What the max was at that point in time, 30 days in parish prison and a $100 fine. Sean Paul Gott and Matthew Nakian were expelled by the school.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
There were some consequences for the organization as well. The fraternity was expelled from LSU's campus until 2033.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
And we walk in, we sit down just to get something to eat, water, whatever. And in the restaurant, I Don't Want to Miss a Thing by Aerosmith came on, and that was Ray and Max's song. That's like the song she wanted to dance to with him at his wedding. She's singing to him like, oh, he was little and growing up, and that was kind of like his wink to us, knowing that it was going to be okay.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Less than a year after Max's death, the governor of Louisiana signed the Max Groover Act. that made fundamental changes to the hazing law in Louisiana.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
It creates reporting requirements for schools and fraternities if there's hazing incidents. It makes it a crime not to seek medical assistance for someone in situations like Max.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
And one of the things that groovers are doing is try to advocate for and push through a federal law that would make hazing a federal crime with uniform standards across the country.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Then take me to the rooftop now and see if I can fly.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Then take me to the rooftop now and see if I can fly.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Louisiana State University, we bleed our purple and gold.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
You hear Go Tigers all throughout the streets. Being a student at LSU is unlike any other.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
So many people come to LSU specifically just to join Greek life.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
When I originally came to LSU, I believe there were around 17 or 16 fraternities. These are long, historic, established fraternities that have been there for a while on LSU's campus.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Max and I first met during the formal recruitment process for LSU, what we like to call Rush. We kind of found that we clicked very quickly. We were both looking at some of the same fraternities. We both were going through this process really to find our group of friends that we were gonna, you know, stick with for the rest of our college time.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Kids aren't supposed to die in college. Kids aren't supposed to die at all.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
I don't even think we were a month into school yet before the news came, breaking news.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Police at Louisiana State University investigating the death of 18-year-old freshman Max Groover.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
They came up to me and hugged me and told me right then and there. And we just sat there and we cried together like that's, I mean, I didn't know what to do. Nobody knows what to do in that situation, so.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
And it was like all hell broke loose. No one knew what to do.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Upon arrival at the hospital, Max Gruver's blood alcohol level was extremely high and was a deadly dose.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
The hospital immediately contacted the coroner for an investigation because the circumstances surrounding this young man's death were suspicious.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
The coroner's office called the LSU Police Department and notified them. At the same time, Max Gruver's family is being notified, and no one's really sure of exactly what happened.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
At the same time, law enforcement is notified by the director of Greek Life that Max had passed away. the Phi Delta Theta house, I mean, it's right there on campus. They shortly arrived two minutes after.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
I keep dripping Candle in the sun I've got nowhere to run and hide If I make it through
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
Everyone was kind of shocked and shaking their head that a young person who's a freshman is dead. And he's dead potentially as a result of a night of very serious, dangerous drinking.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
The pledge educator also sends a message out to the pledges to also come to the house.
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Death in the Dorms Season 2: Episode 4: Max Gruver
We got a message saying everybody needed to come to the house right now. Everyone shows up to the house, and the next thing we know, the head of LSU's Greek life at the time comes through the door and just says, I don't know why you guys are talking. This is a murder investigation. And that was the first we knew that Max was dead. And it hit me pretty hard. I didn't really know what to do.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
It had to be somebody that was taller and definitely very physically fit to be able to do it with such ease.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
There are police watching this, some of whom are theorizing that this is planned and staged and that Samantha is in on it.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
The wilderness. Beautiful yet treacherous landscapes. These are the stories of investigators who solve murders in wild places.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
All of the investigators, both APD and FBI, were trying to really understand what the circumstances were of that video. the text message from Samantha's phone saying that she was not going to be coming home. Between that text message and the video where you can see Samantha walking out, she's not being dragged.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
This is a well-traveled, well-lit area. Who would do this in the wide open stretches of, you know, Anchorage?
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
There was definitely debate. Did Samantha leave willingly or was this a situation where she was being forced out? My background is in psychology and forensic psychology. I applied to the Bureau and got in in 2004 and was fortunate enough to get assigned to Alaska, and I've been here ever since.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
I was very happy that Katherine was going to be involved. She's just kind of got a brain and a knack for picking things up and putting pieces together.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
We rely on each other a lot. We work together a lot. It's a very, very close working relationship. And that really is what solves these cases.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
We're able to see her leave the scene, so looking at the rest of that video would not have been necessarily the highest of priorities early on.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Ingrid hit a new record. The most snowfall for this time of year.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Samantha left her cell phone at the coffee stand, and so it appeared that the individual went back to the coffee stand to retrieve her phone.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Someone has clearly abducted Samantha, and the clock is ticking.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
February in Alaska, it's dark most of the time. You wake up, it's dark, and you get off work, it's dark. There's a lot of things people do to get through our long winters. A lot of people like myself drink a lot of coffee. Coffee's an important element for the Alaskan. You'll see coffee stands and coffee shops almost on every corner. They're usually being run by young women.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
We're hoping to find Samantha. We believe that we will be able to find her alive, and we carry that hope within us.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
She's funny. She's out there. I was surprised on how many people actually knew her.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
I can't believe this happened here in Anchorage. For it to actually happen so out of the blue, I mean, it's scary. Not as a barista, just as a young lady.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
It's important for people to see that she's still out there and we still need to keep looking.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Samantha's mother, Darlene, was part indigenous, and that made Samantha Koenig part indigenous. And so that rallied a lot of the community and the indigenous community here in Anchorage.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
There's people putting flyers up that knew her, and there's just tons of them.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
But there was another key detail that really raised red flags for the investigators. Some of them felt that James was a truth teller, that he loved his daughter, that he would never have harmed her, while the other half think something isn't right here. Please look into him.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
He came to the door, opened it, shimmied himself through a little crack, and then closed it behind him. And then when they asked to speak to Dwayne, it was the same thing.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
If you are an investigator who from day one has found this guy suspicious, this looks really bad. And it's reinforcing your theory of the case that James was somehow involved.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
I called their phone a couple times. I was looking to see if she left it at work.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
I think that James Koenig, he's having a really tough time trusting the cops.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
James was devastated that his daughter was missing and he had no idea where she was or what had happened to her. And he wanted her to come home.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
It's been three days since 18-year-old Samantha Koenig disappeared from her job at Common Grounds Espresso in Midtown Anchorage.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
One of the normal protocols would be to go and canvass the area, look for other surveillance videos.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Samantha and the suspect got in that vehicle and then drove from the Home Depot parking lot onto the road.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Samantha Coney was working in a coffee stand She's an 18-year-old girl, mostly interested in her friends, you know, prom, school. She had a boyfriend, doing things that most teenagers do, you know, with her future and her dreams, you know, and her mind.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
The traffic unit was then vehicle by vehicle trying to identify all the white trucks in the city that you're making model.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Investigators say surveillance footage shows a stranger dressed in a black hoodie.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Anchorage police are not sharing what they say is proof that Samantha Koenig was kidnapped, not even with her family.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
We have not seen any surveillance. This is just unbelievable.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
If we were to present them now, it would have the effect of tainting a jury.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
They have detectives on it, but to me, they're not working fast enough. We keep waiting for some good news.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
James asked me if I would build a Facebook page for Samantha. There were, of course, trolls like there is in any social media. And people can be so cruel. There were people that had their own view that she wasn't actually missing.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
As police continue to search for clues on why Samantha was taken from Common Grounds, the family says they're optimistic she'll be found alive.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Corey Allen Young, CBS 11 News. I would say with James, he was definitely frustrated. I know as the days went on, there was more law enforcement added to the case.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
James Koenig did what I think anybody would do. He went online, he went to the internet, he used it to publicize his daughter's disappearance.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Whenever we got what we thought might be evidence, we forwarded it on over to the police department.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Where is Samantha? I mean, that is still the big question. Where is she?
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Samantha's boyfriend got a text message from Samantha's phone.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Connor Park is a dog park in Anchorage, and it said, Connor Park, sign under pic of Albert, ain't she purdy.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Under a sign of a golden doodle named Elbert, there was a Ziploc bag that had a white piece of paper folded over.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
It was a ransom note typed on an actual typewriter. The note suggests that Samantha is alive. 30K to be deposited to CU1, which is Credit Union 1 account. It has the full card number, expiration 1-2015.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
It was one single piece of paper. On the first side, it had the actual typed ransom note, and then on the second side was the actual picture.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Is this young woman alive in the photo, or is she not? You certainly could not say with certainty one way or another.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Now we have something that we could potentially use to try to lure the subject out.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
We have the bank set to be able to track her ATM card, so we will know at any institution that it's used within about 10 minutes of it being used. So having a deposit is what we wanted.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
You got officers on your way. Got a call towards the end of shift about a possible abduction. A barista at a coffee shop. I get there and talk to the barista's father and her boyfriend. What they told me was Mr. Koenig's daughter worked at the coffee shop. She didn't come home last night.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
The individual is covered in masks, so you can't see any real facial features. The eyes are covered. There's some type of hat or hood on and a big puffy jacket that says Marine Corps on the back. It does appear to be male. It does appear to be taller, which is consistent with the height of the individual that walks up to the coffee stand. appears to be thin, not somebody who's out of shape.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
The FBI were looking for that white pickup truck. This vehicle is a completely different vehicle.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
We had no additional clues, no ATM withdrawals, no leads. Everything goes cold.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
As the search for Samantha Conant goes into month number two, the detectives and officers are working around the clock to figure out who took her and why.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Time is obviously of the essence. As time goes on, things get cold. People's memories fade.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
We get an alert in the middle of the night that Samantha's debit card was used at an ATM in Wilcox, Arizona.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
How did we get to Wilcox, Arizona? And is Samantha alive?
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
and based on size and height and that type of thing. It appeared to be the same person, but again, fully disguised. So no real distinct identifying features of the individual. You can see in the distance a small white car. That photograph was sent back to our lab in Quantico. They were able to tell us it was a white Ford Focus.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Our belief is at this point that if the individual was from Alaska and is now down there, that it's probably a rental car. So that ATM withdrawal happens on March 7th. There's another one that day in Lordsburg, New Mexico.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
They received a text from her saying she was angry at her boyfriend and wasn't going to be home. I saw someone in her truck at 3 o'clock this morning. In her truck? Yes, sir. At home? Yeah. Sometime in the night, they found somebody rummaging through Samantha's truck that was parked out in front of her house and chased after him. But the guy got away. Any reason we didn't report it?
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
It has detailed information about the White Fort Focus.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
I mean, couldn't find a more common vehicle, and we didn't have a license plate on it, so we didn't even know what state it was registered in. It's an absolute needle in a haystack.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
We dropped everything we were doing then, and we told Ryan, do not lose that car.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Because you're thinking, wow, is this even possible? We may have found the person that abducted Samantha. This has to be the guy. Let this be the guy.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
So I'm trying to put all this together. I have a father and boyfriend who say that a girl didn't come home. Somebody broke into her car. But they didn't call the police. That would be the most logical thing in my mind. Your girlfriend's missing. You get this weird text, and now somebody's rummaging through her truck. Why didn't you call the police?
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Kind of raises red flags, like, what is going on here? Why are you reporting this? And then getting mad at me for asking you questions. So in my mind, I'm thinking, maybe she's got another boyfriend somewhere, and she didn't want to come home, and I'm leaning more towards that than I am an abduction. But I learned a long time ago in my career, be careful of your opinions and stick to facts.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
I'm thinking, I don't know if this is truly an abduction, but we still have to investigate it as if it was. So at that point, I call Sergeant Markowitz.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
James Koning is Samantha Koning's father. He's also known as Sonny by his closest friends. And he's a really sweet person. A biker-type fellow. Loves his Harley. In a lot of people's minds, if you're a biker guy, of course you're a bad person. Samantha was his only biological child. Samantha was his world.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
From the very beginning, the police are wondering, well, how true can this be? If you're that frantic about this missing 18-year-old, you don't call the cops, like, what is going on here?
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
I worked and worked and worked trying to find evidence of any kind inside that coffee hut. I threw fingerprint powder everywhere, and I was looking for anything and everything, not just fingerprints. I was looking for items a suspect may have left behind, items she may have left behind, and I couldn't find anything. Not only did I not find anything, there was no sign of struggle.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Now there was another barista who was supposed to come in and open up that morning, which she did, but cash was missing out of the cash drawer.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
It's really abnormal to walk in and find everything, you know, not taken care of, not closed up. You know, Sammy was a diligent worker.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Anchorage is a city, but we're surrounded by mountains and forests, and there's still very much a kind of remote feeling to it. It can be very difficult to find somebody who goes missing in Alaska because it is such a massive wilderness. There are bears and moose. There are huge parts of the state that are not even on a road system that you can only access by plane.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
There was no idea where Samantha was. She disappeared from Anchorage, but Samantha could absolutely have been anywhere.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Daredevil is born again on Disney+. My name is Matthew Murdock. I'm a lawyer.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Hey, really good one. Critics everywhere agree it's the best Marvel television series. Gritty, intense, and elevated. It's Daredevil at his best. If you step out of line, I will be there. Marvel Television's Daredevil, Born Again. Now streaming only on Disney+.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Bill Burr, Drop Dead Years. A hilarious stand-up special is coming to Hulu March 14th.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
I am getting along with my wife better than I ever have. All you have to do is agree to something that you would never do.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Farmer's market? Oh boy, would I? My buddy dies. I show up to the funeral. Open casket. You told me he was dead. I believed you.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Bill Burr, Drop Dead Years is streaming on Hulu March 14th.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
The night that Samantha disappeared, Samantha's boyfriend got a text message on his phone from Samantha's phone.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Samantha's dad certainly was suspicious of that text message.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Things just didn't seem to add up. And a little bit later, in the process of talking to everybody in this investigation, I asked about video because I saw there was video cameras there.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
In the video, you can see Samantha is closing up for the night in the coffee stand, cleaning and wiping things down. It's late at night, so there aren't many coffee drinkers that are driving up to the stand. And then you can see somebody walking up.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Samantha could absolutely have been anywhere. I want her home.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
Samantha goes to the window. So she starts making coffee. And she appears to be engaging with the person.
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Wild Crime: Ain't She Purty? | S4 Ep. 1
I vividly remember Samantha doing this and putting her hands up.
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American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
Here's our patio. There's the front entrance.
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American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
Yeah, let's get out of here. We tried. We tried, bro.
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American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
It's hard for the mind to comprehend everything we're seeing here. That large building behind me is engulfed with all of the houses down this street. Temesco on fire.
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American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
But swirling around them, controversy about whether Los Angeles officials failed to supply enough water and deploy enough firefighters. Lots of talk about the water running out, that you were fighting a fire without all the resources necessary.
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American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
As all these homes actually do burn down, and a lot of them have their own fire sprinkler systems, that those sprinkler systems become compromised as the house burns down and the water will free flow. As we see our gauges go down lower and lower, we knew we were getting low on water.
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American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
Tonight, ABC News has confirmed a nearby 117 million gallon reservoir that feeds Pacific Palisades has been taken offline for repairs well before the fires broke out.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
If you'd had all the resources and all the water, would it have made a difference here? I've been on the job for 36 years, and I've never seen weather like that. It was a hurricane-force wind with fire involved. It was indescribable.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
California burning. This is the week of living dangerously in L.A. The Palisades fire extremely hot and incredibly close. Are you just evacuating now? What's going on up there?
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
There are houses on fire up in the corner and all the way down that street. I've seen tons of fires. This is nothing. I'm scared for my life. It's terrifying.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
Angelino's on the run, caught in gridlock traffic, abandoning vehicles to fate. In order for firefighters to actually get to the fires, they had to carve a path. And so a bulldozer literally shoved all of these cars to the side. You can see the bumpers ripped off, the scratches along the vehicles here.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
There's glass in the roadway and the terrified motorists here, they had to flee to safety on foot.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
20,000 acres of heartbreak fire so ferocious it calls for a new measurement burn rate five football fields per minute and you can feel the intensity of the heat now it's lighting up the trees here and this is how all of these new fires are being created here on Malibu Beach lifeguard stations ablaze with the ocean right there but not close enough to save homes and businesses along the Pacific Coast Highway
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
It is like driving through hell itself down here. Literally through hell. This is madness down here.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
Fire, flames, inferno. By day three, words and water fail. But the burning is without end. The sad cycle goes like this. Fire comes, people run, the fire finishes, and people like this couple we spotted in the ashes of an apartment building come back to count their losses. And a combination of fear and hope as Gail McGowan recovers a safe, a fireproof safe that remains to be seen.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
It is. I wanted to get to it before the looters got to it.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
McGowan had lived here for 22 years since her husband died, and she was hoping that one particular ring had survived that heat.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
I mean, I got to save something. Look at everything else. This is my home right here.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
On her way out, she had grabbed her phone, nursing scrubs, but little else. So documents, passport, things like that?
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
Yeah, everything, everything, everything, everything.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
Minutes later, the fire still flickering. Her friend Mario heaving that safe off the building. He left to get a shopping cart and came back with cops on a patrol.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
You have your ID with you now? You bet.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
The officers were concerned about looters, made sure that Gail's ID matched the address of where they were. Then they cracked the safe. Oh, yeah, way to go. These your rings? Yeah. Thursday, authorities announced the arrest of 20 looters. We asked the LAPD about that.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
Oh, it's huge. It's huge. You have million-dollar homes all intact, rows and rows of them. And there's really no way to police this area effectively right now.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
Pacific Palisades right now could just be taken off the map. There is no Pacific Palisades.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
In short, David, impossible odds 100 foot walls of flame 80 mile per hour winds and yes, a shortage of staff and water and city officials are acknowledging that shutting off certain utilities did affect the water pressure here. One reason that Governor Gavin Newsom is demanding an independent investigation into these water issues, calling it deeply disturbing, David.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
As we see so many images of the thousands of homes damaged and destroyed, it's overwhelming to realize that every single one of them held a story.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
That is the living room. That's the front entrance. Beyond that, there was a bedroom. If I could only have found one thing, this was it.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
It's the bell that we have at the front of the house, and it came from my husband's childhood home.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
In the Pacific Palisades, I met with a woman, Patricia, her home of more than 40 years destroyed.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
At our age, it's going to take years to come back for our village, for our beautiful town to come back. It's surreal.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
I'm numb. And while we spoke, she pulled out the only thing she could salvage from her home.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
This was from my daughter's bathroom. Her bathroom was blue and white, and the turtles went around the vanity, the tile. And I found it. It was the only thing I found. Thank you.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
Roughly 180,000 people in Los Angeles, including myself, have been evacuated from their homes.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
We are utterly surrounded by fire.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
Broken memories are everywhere. You're just right over there. Just last May, I interviewed Rikki Lake. We sat in her stunning dream home overlooking Malibu. Every day is like magic here for me. But just yesterday. This is what's happening right now. She posted news of her own evacuation on social media. Oh, my gosh. Writing about that dream home, it's all gone.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
Cameron Matheson, star of General Hospital, says the grief of losing a home, which he documented on his social media, will impact his family for generations to come.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
My daughter in particular said that she wanted to raise her kids in that house. And she said that actually less than a week ago. Like, why would she say that now, right before it burns down?
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
I lived in the Pacific Palisades in a mobile home community. I loved living in the Pacific Palisades because I loved to surf. There were 176 units there, and they're all gone. It was completely leveled. I dug through some rubble. There was some ceramics that had survived, but really nothing. Everything was burned, melted, destroyed.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
When I moved in, the first thing I did was try and secure insurance. And it turns out that because my home was built in 1957, anything before 1976 is incredibly difficult to secure fire insurance for. Every time I tried to get insurance, it was just denied.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
Normally, the lush mountains and deep arroyos of the City of Angels are a gorgeous backdrop for the region. But this week, a combination of extreme weather and climate forces created a devastating scenario. And all of this is a far cry from this same time last year when we saw historic flooding here in Los Angeles.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
But in the months following that devastation, LA has been experiencing a severe drought. Experts call it hydroclimate whiplash, rapid swings between intensely wet and dangerously dry weather.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
Add to that those extreme winds with speeds up to 100 miles an hour, and the result is a catastrophic weather event, with embers able to ride those gusts for miles, igniting new fires virtually anywhere, anytime.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
And David, we've spoken to experts who tell us with the continued effects from climate change, increased winds, increased average temperature, increased severity of drought, unfortunately, situations like this will almost certainly be more common in the future. David?
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
It all started with the tick tock, letting people know help was available, gaining over 35,000 views, a beacon of hope for those who need help, but also inspiring those who can give.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
Guys, now as a team, let's load all this stuff up. One act of kindness inspired another and then another.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
Yeah, the loss of our house, of everything hurts, but seeing everyone together and just knowing that everyone is here for us, you know, we're not alone.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
And David, take a look at this. We are now at the third location where this pop-up donation site has had to move. And take a look at this. There are now donations as far as the eye can see. Lines of shoes, piles of clothes, hot meals. If you lost your home in a fire, this is the place to come. So this is now in a huge parking lot in Arcadia. This is what SoCal Strong looks like. David?
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
Let's keep it going. Thanks, Kevin.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
Everything is catching fire here. Trash bins.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
LA Fire Department, total heroes, doing a great job.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
It is just a sea of massive wall of embers that just get blown across the area here. And it's those embers that really are the big concern because it could get lodged in any of the homes next door. It also could start fires just, you know, more than a mile away.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
It's overwhelming. I don't know how we're going to get through it, but we will. I know we will. It's just going to be a long process.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
You can hear the bangs going off.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
It's just jumping from home to home right now. With this wind, there's nothing to stop it.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
Right, right. The traffic was so bad, they figured their chances were better getting out on foot and running the rest of the way out of here.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
It is. It is. You see... where the bulldozer had to come through and push the cars aside so we can get up here.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
Yeah, the wind is just pushing this fire from home to home to home, and you'll see it. It's even running down canyon to the homes that are below these homes. So there's just no stopping it when the winds are this strong. Everything's going to burn.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
Yeah, let's get out of here. We tried.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
There's nothing we can do now, bro.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
God, protect this house in the name of Jesus. Protect this neighborhood, God, in Jesus' name, I pray, amen.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
It's devastating. It's devastating. And I feel for those people. I've spoke to some of them. I hear it in their voices. It just it tears that off. my heartstrings too. But like I said, at the end of the day, they were alive. They knew they would rebuild and come back better. And I just gave them a hug and I said, you know, please reach out with anything you need.
20/20
American Catastrophe: LA Burning -- Special Edition of 20/20
Well, there's no question you've saved lives here. That was our goal. That's our number one priority.
20/20
Run, Run, Run
If they actually had contacted me or listened, then maybe I wouldn't have been at that point.
48 Hours
The Spirits of El Segundo
This is the actual latent lift that Howard Speaks lifted in 1957.
48 Hours
The Spirits of El Segundo
Those prints ultimately did not belong to that individual, and homicide was quickly notified once it was verified.
48 Hours
The Spirits of El Segundo
How do you work with something like this? Well, we literally can't work with that. We work with a photograph that fortunately was taken of this.
48 Hours
The Spirits of El Segundo
I pointed out that this was the least expensive one, at $29.95, then that's when he decided that's what he wanted.
48 Hours
The Spirits of El Segundo
Yes. Back then, we were by far the largest gun dealer in this area. What exactly is this document that we're looking at? This is a record of firearms sold. This is G.D. Wilson is the name he gave me. This is your handwriting? That's correct.
48 Hours
The Spirits of El Segundo
When Gerald Mason answered a knock on his front door early on the morning of January 29, 2003, it's clear from these police audio tapes that he never expected it would be his past finally catching up with him. We're investigating a crime that occurred back in 1957. Two police officers were murdered.
48 Hours
The Spirits of El Segundo
For over 40 years, Jerry has been a loving husband, father, grandfather, and a friend of this community. This has to be a case of mistaken identity.
48 Hours
The Spirits of El Segundo
It's heartwarming that we were able to do a small part in that. I didn't think I'd ever live to see it.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
Was ist, wenn die Lösung für unsere Probleme dort lauert, wo Menschen normalerweise gar nicht hinkommen? Ein Schatz aus der Tiefsee, Millionen Jahre alt, den es aber wirklich gibt und den manche jetzt heben wollen. Der Kampf um die Tiefsee, der hat längst begonnen. Das ist Enten, Land unter, von Andan und dem Futurium. Ab sofort auf Spotify.
48 Hours
Post Mortem | The Perplexing Death of Susann Sills
So, did he mention that he was stuck in his loveless marriage and, you know, it was kind of
48 Hours
The Black Widow
11 to 1 to convict. The judge was forced to declare a mistrial. It was here in Knox County, so it wasn't shocking to me.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
There was only one person who wanted to harm David. And at that point, it was David. He was acting suicidal.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
He's a great lawyer. He's super prepared. Fantastic lawyer. Fantastic. He's a bad actor.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
Was David Lee in any way capable of any sort of voluntary movement after that bullet transected his brain?
48 Hours
The Black Widow
I just tried to focus on the evidence and where that was leading me. It was hard for me to determine.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
She was taking care of a sick husband who she loved. And for that to get twisted into what it did is upsetting. She's got hope that the justice system isn't so broken that it won't eventually realize the truth, which is that she's an innocent woman.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
Where we were going with certain things and trying to piece those things together. Inside each line is an individual stain. But you're not making a decision just by yourself, you're making a decision as a group.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
I'll give it to you. It's unusual. But to say because of that it has to be a homicide, I just can't go that far. There is a phenomenon called cadaveric spasm where a person can actually Their hands can squeeze immediately upon death. What would you have ruled this? I would have ruled this undetermined.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
I'm glad that she reassessed and didn't try to make the same claims about toxicology at the third trial, but it's six years too late for my client.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
Right. As a forensic pathologist, at least on the evidence that I've been privy to, there's no way on earth I think she's guilty.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
If anybody has any doubts as to whether David was murdered by Rinella, maybe they need to talk to Steve Walker.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
We're not saying we know exactly what happened, we're just saying we know there are multiple ways that all of this makes sense that don't have anything to do with the homicide. There was only one person who wanted to harm David, and at that point it was David. He was acting, with his physicians, suicidal.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
I'm a crouton on a real big salad here, and this is a big salad in this town.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
She had a towel around her hands, and she comes up with it and starts shooting.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
I'm defenseless. She said, I used to be a better shot than that, but I can hit you from here. And she aimed that gun, and I closed my eyes. She pulled the trigger. I knew I was gone. But the gun was out of bullets. There was no doubt in my mind. If she hadn't run out of bullets, I'd be dead.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
Why would she plead guilty? It's the same thing I would have told her, is this is a plea that will get expunged. There is no jail time. Take this deal and walk away. Raynella Leith did walk away.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
If you can picture a cartoon of someone's jaw hitting the floor. Thank you. I really, really tried to pay attention and took notes, so I was really looking forward to deliberating.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
If Judge Summers was so convinced that he was right about the evidence, Why not let us deliberate it? And how do you explain that? I can't. Only Judge Summers can.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
when Joshua Hedrick was sitting on that bed and he was twirling that cylinder on that gun. It was a burden to my family. It was just so corny.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
It was fake. He was trying so hard. After that, I was like, all right, they're trying so hard that it's so obvious now.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
He stole that verdict from the family, from the prosecution, from the jury. It was a theft.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
I said to my mother I thought he'd hit the jackpot with this girl because she was so pretty and so interesting. I just thought, this is going to be a great fit.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
Yes. The reports were an agricultural accident. But some folks in the community had a problem with that scenario. Ed grew up on a farm. For him to have been trampled by his own cattle, that just didn't make sense.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
If you feel comfortable moving forward so that we can evaluate your case and charge you, we're here for you.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
Authorities say seven more women have come forward claiming Pierce sexually assaulted them as well. Jane Doe number one. Jane Doe number two. Jane Doe number three. Number four. Number five.
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
In the matter of the people of the state of California versus David Bryan Pierce, we, the jury, in the above entitled action, find the defendant, David Bryan Pierce, guilty of the crime of first-degree murder upon Christy Giles,
48 Hours
"Dead Girls Don't Talk"
Guilty of the crime of first-degree murder upon Hilda Marcella Cabrera-Arzola.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
News of Kevin's murder spread among his loved ones and closest friends.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
I was at home and I actually got a phone call from another soldier. And she was saying, I know you guys were close. And her voice cracked and she told me that he had passed away. And I was like, not comprehending what was going on. So I text him and I was like, answer your phone, please. And obviously he never answered me.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Are officers concerned that at some point, someone is going to get hurt?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Lieutenant Hubbard reached out to Captain Jamila Aye, and if sharing the news about Kevin wasn't tragic enough, someone posted the chilling video of his murder online, and his fellow soldiers now saw and heard Kevin's final moments alive.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
To this day, I can still hear him screaming. I was like, why did I listen to that?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Detectives Zaweski and Cunningham were back at their desks in headquarters, struggling for answers and leads to pursue. Day two. You get a phone call.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The call from a sergeant at nearby North Haven Police Department was urgent.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Two incidents that happened in North Haven the night before and then earlier that morning.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
830 Saturday night, residents in the East Rock neighborhood heard the distinct sound of gunfire.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
It began with a 911 call from a local scrap metal yard around 9 p.m., less than a half hour after Kevin was killed.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
I'm the security guard at Simmons Metal Management. I just had somebody drive through my yard here. They didn't know where they were going, so I had been chasing them around the yard, and they just pulled way in the back. Off the property, took a black minivan, SUV type of thing.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Police body cameras were rolling when Sergeant Jeffrey Mills and Officer Marcus Artaiz spotted that vehicle stuck on snow-covered railroad tracks, not far from the rear exit of the Sims scrap metal yard. They approached the driver.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
I just got here accidentally and I got stuck. Is there any way to get stuck here?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
His driver's license and criminal background were clean. During the encounter, Sergeant Mills noticed a yellow jacket on the passenger seat. He also saw a blue bag and a briefcase in the back seat, but not much else.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
He took a wrong turn. He got lost. And he thought the Jeep was probably chasing him, the security guy.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Because Sergeant Mills hadn't heard about Kevin's murder, he wasn't particularly concerned.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
On February 6th at around 8.30 p.m., we get the report of a person shot at Lawrence and Nichols Street in New Haven. That person was later identified as Kevin Jong and was pronounced deceased on the scene. We located eight .45 caliber shell casings. There were a few 911 callers that saw a dark-colored SUV flee the area.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
I've been on the tracks I don't know how many times with vehicles that were, you know, called into suspicious or whatever, but kids go back there. People always come down there, according to the security guard, and they turn around in the front lot and they leave because they missed a highway or something. Did he look nervous? He wasn't nervous at all. He was perfectly calm.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
It was just like, oh, sorry, I got stuck on the tracks. Can you help me get off?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The tow truck came. It took a little work, but it got it off the tracks. He gave Mr. Pan a ride back to Best Western, and I cleared the call, like any other call.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
But hours later, there was another call to 911. February 7th, around 11 a.m.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Hello, I work at Arby's here in North Haven. We found a gun and probably like 10 boxes of bullets.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
An employee found a couple of bags on the grass at the north entrance here.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
When they brought them in, there were three bags. This one, that one, and this. Got it.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Took a better look at the bags that it came in, and here's a blue retail bag with a Massachusetts logo on it and a small leather black briefcase, and it instantly hit me. These are the bags that were in Mr. Pond's car the night before.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The Arby's was right next door to the Best Western where Penn was dropped off. And by then, Mills had heard about the murder in New Haven. What's going through your brain?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
At that point, knowing that New Haven had a homicide, they were looking for a dark-colored GMC SUV. Now we've got a firearm, and then Officer Bianchi shows me a yellow jacket that was in it, and the suspect was wearing a yellow jacket.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
And when we got here, I went in to the front desk and spoke with the attendant there and asked if Bucks on Pan had checked in, which they checked in and said, yes, he did. I mean, he hasn't checked out yet.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
That's when Mills alerted New Haven Homicide about Pan. Do you immediately think there might be a connection with the homicide?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
There's a very good chance. The vehicle matched. And the items that were left behind at the Arby's restaurant, it included a .45 caliber handgun. PowerPoint. And that matched the casings that were at the scene.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Zawieski immediately sent detectives to meet Mills at the Best Western.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
So we got a key, went to room 276. We knocked on the door. We entered the room. The room was clean. Nothing in it. It didn't appear that anybody stayed in it for the night. At first, we were like, oh, we lost them.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
New Haven police sent investigators, including Detective Joe Galvin, to track down Pan. Galvin went to Malden, Massachusetts, where Pan lived with his parents and was a graduate student at MIT.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
right outside of Boston, very affluent homes. There was no one there when we knocked on the door. So the day after the homicide, we were unsure if maybe the family was on vacation, out of state, out of the country.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Were they given the heinous act that occurred in New Haven the day before? Were they potentially kidnapped by their own son? Were they victims of another horrible crime?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
With Kenshin Pan and his parents missing from their home, Detective David Zaweski turned to his computer, searching for Pan.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
A sense of shock and sadness has settled on the Yale University community after the Saturday night shooting death of grad student Kevin Jiang.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The first thing I want to know is who he is and if there's any connection between him and Kevin. I see that he has a Facebook page.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
There was not much activity at all. His last post was back in 2016, and he had a few photos with some other students, but that was it.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Yes, that was the first time we got the connection between him and MIT. So I check his friends list to see if Kevin is in there.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Now we have a connection. I got in contact with her. She explained that they had met at MIT back in 2019, and they were more associates than friends.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
No. She said that they never dated. They never had any romantic relationship. The last time she spoke with him was May of 2020. He reached out to her through Facebook Messenger to congratulate her on graduating. He asked to FaceTime with her, and she politely declined it.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
She must have been wondering, why are you asking me so many questions about this guy? What did you say to her?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
She was, and that's when I told her that he was a person of interest in this. And she was completely shocked. He was barely a part of her life and why he would have been involved with this in any way.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The last things that she had posted were the engagement between her and Kevin.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Are you starting to formulate a theory about the case that goes a little beyond possible road rage?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Yes. It did seem like there was a secret obsession of Pan's going on behind the scenes that Kevin wasn't aware of and that Zion wasn't aware of.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The next day, Zion Perry joined Kevin's mother, Linda Liu, and father, Ming-Shen Yang, and nearly 700 people on a virtual vigil for Kevin. Zion addressed the mourners.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
One day I will get to see Kevin again, yeah, in heaven and when everything is made right. I thank Ms. Liu and Mr. Zhang for raising such a fine young man and for, yeah, bringing him into the world.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
He gave me a lot of joy. He's a very thoughtful, warm-hearted boy, taking care of me, and I miss him. He's a nice boy. Everybody likes me. Thank you. Thank you, you all.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
You're such a cutie. He was just a very happy person, a very genuine soul.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
If this world falls apart, it will be all right because we have each other's hearts.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
A medical officer also trained to operate tanks, Kevin was buried with full military honors just two days before his 27th birthday on Valentine's Day. Meanwhile, Detective Galvin, a member of the U.S. Marshals Fugitive Task Force in Connecticut, along with Supervisor Matthew Duffy and Deputy Marshal Kevin Perrault, were utilizing their vast resources to urgently gather intelligence on Pan.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The victim was a student at Yale's School of the Environment, originally from Chicago. He was an Army vet who posted on Facebook just a week ago his joy in getting engaged.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The Marshalls discovered Pan had three active phones, and they noticed that in the months before Kevin was killed, Pan was using one of those phones to contact car dealerships.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
He would tell them all the same thing. He said he's going for a test drive. I believe he said he was going on a camping trip.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Investigators were able to match the date of Pan's test drives with each of the .45 caliber shootings in New Haven, including Kevin's murder. It was all part of a plan, investigators say. They believe that Pan likely fired shots into those homes to ultimately mislead them, hoping they would think Kevin's murder was just another random shooting.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Yeah, he did his best to mislead us. And now we knew that, yes, this wasn't a random incident out there, that he was targeted.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
They also discovered that not long after Kevin's murder, Pan called his parents, and they made a cash withdrawal of about $1,000.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The marshals zeroed in on Pan's parents and picked up a ping on their phone at this North Carolina gas station.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
He was so in love with Zion. He was just like, oh, Zion this and Zion that. Like, everything was about Zion. He really loved her.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Three days later, investigators caught up with Pan's parents driving near Atlanta, Georgia.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Police told them they suspected their son had killed someone. Were they shocked?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
They weren't shocked that their son was being investigated and connected with a cold-blooded murder.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
They may have been, but they didn't lead on to us at all. They didn't lead on to us at all.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The father said our son called, said he was in Connecticut and needed help. He asked us to bring cash. Then once we picked him up in Connecticut, he took the wheel, and then they take this very long drive down south.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
And he says he's quiet, acting weird, doesn't really say what's going on. They make it down to Georgia. He pulls over and he gets out of the car and walks away. He said no words to them, just walked away from the car. That was their story.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Pan's parents agreed to be photographed. Pan's mother declined to answer any questions without an attorney, but she later volunteered that her son walked away from her and his father and likely killed himself. The Marshalls were skeptical.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
We knew after talking to the parents that they would go to jail for him. Knowing the degree that the parents were helping him and his resources, his intelligence, We had to take a different approach on it.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
We needed to focus in on the parents because they probably would lead us to him.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
And they would need plenty of it. Weeks went by without an arrest. They wondered if they missed something and if their murder suspect had outmaneuvered them.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Five weeks pass without a solid lead on the MIT student wanted for Kevin Zhang's murder.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Yeah, because this became so high profile so fast, it was just heightened.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Then the manhunt for Pan suddenly heated up. Police said his mom told them she suspected her son killed himself, but they noticed his parents had a lot of banking activity.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Kevin's body, he was laying on his right side. His feet were on the stop line here, and his head was towards the first line of the crosswalk. And then we see the casings. There's a shell casing by the bottom of the S and a few feet from the P. And then there were six more spread out by the first crosswalk line. We could see gunshot wounds to his upper body and to his head.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
We start to see large sums of cash being withdrawn. How much? At that time, it was about $5,000, $10,000.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
That's a large sum of money that someone could use to get out of the country. They still have family in China.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
And then Pan's parents rented a car. They start traveling south again. But the vehicle's GPS system the marshals were tracking went dark. Did they turn it off?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
By then, investigators said they knew that their son had disabled GPS systems in several cars he drove in the run-up to Kevin's murder.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
At one point, surveillance cameras at this Georgia mall recorded Pan's father purchasing a computer.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Now, this is during COVID, so everybody has their masks on. We see the father walk in, and probably about 10 minutes later, we see an individual fitting the description of the son. So the story of the suicide out in the woods, that's not true. So from there, the parents end up traveling back north. Once they're in Connecticut, the GPS comes back on. We felt the clock was really ticking.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
And it ticked away for nearly two more months until May 4th, 2021, when Pan's parents drove off for a third time.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Make it appear that it's a regular trip. No big deal. We're just going on a trip to meet some friends. We're not here to help our son.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Pan's parents and their unwitting companions were eventually placed under surveillance at a North Carolina hotel, where marshals interviewed a clerk after the Pans checked out.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
At one point, Qinxin Pan's mother came to the clerk's desk late at night and asked to borrow his phone.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Here is the picture of Pan's mother making the call that broke the case wide open.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Were you able to find that number? Yes. The marshals tracked the phone to this boarding house near Alabama State University in Montgomery. So you guys are closing in.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Yeah. They went out there with a small army, around 20 guys. They ended up finding his room, and they knocked on it, and he just came out and said, I'm who you're looking for.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
He had approximately $20,000 cash on him. He had his father's passport. Father's passport. And he had multiple communication devices on himself. Seven SIM cards. Seven SIM cards and a computer.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Penn was arrested for the murder of Kevin Jong and brought back to Connecticut. He maintained his innocence, but a judge ordered him held on a $20 million bond.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
His case was delayed by the pandemic, but investigators had amassed a trove of evidence. Remember that license plate imprint on Kevin's car? Police say it matched the plate on the bumper of the SUV Pan was driving when Kevin was rear-ended. And forensic tests revealed that Pan's DNA was on the gun and ammo found outside Arby's. And Kevin's blood was also on Pan's hat.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
And the gear shift of the SUV Pan was driving the night Kevin was murdered. Was there anything missing? The murder weapon. Turns out the gun recovered at the Arby's was not the gun that was used to kill Kevin. Supervisory Assistant State's Attorney Stacey Miranda.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
But there was so much other evidence that Pan's lawyer, William Gerace, recommended he cut a deal.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
On February 29, 2024, three years after Kevin's killing, Pan pled guilty to his murder in exchange for serving 35 years in prison without parole.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
And had he not been stuck on the railroad tracks, this still might not be a solved case. We might not know who did this.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
At his sentencing in April, Pan sat silently as Kevin's loved ones and friends described their loss. By court order, the camera was fixed on him. Some of Kevin's mother's remarks were read by a family friend.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Yes. We'll use Facebook as a tool to try and get a little background on an individual who they're friends with.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
I was dreaming that Kevin would have a few beautiful children after getting married. This beautiful and joyful dream is destroyed. I am left alone by myself. I will never see Kevin smile again.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
To charge the mother of Penn 35 years in prison is too short and too light.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Pan never explained why he killed Kevin, but the only time he looked up was when Zion Perry rose to speak.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
I wanted to address Pan specifically. Although your sentence is far less than you deserve, there is also mercy. May God have mercy on you, and may he have mercy on all of us.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
And so you're going down the list of names. Nothing, nothing, nothing. And then you're like, whoa.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Finally, Judge Harmon passed sentence and Pan was led away in handcuffs.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
We reached out to Pan's parents for comment, but did not hear back. Now Kevin's friends are left to wonder what Kevin, a man of deep faith, might have thought about his killer. Do you think Kevin would have forgiven Pan?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Without a doubt. Yeah. The officers visited Kevin's grave after they spoke to 48 Hours. Lieutenant Hubbard recalled her first time there when she says she felt Kevin's presence.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
And did something happen? It's just like wind blew, you know? Did you feel like it was him? I felt like it was definitely different as it's like a peace kind of like, I want you to carry on, don't be sad that I'm gone. Just keep going.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Join me Tuesday for Postmortem from 48 Hours, where we'll dive even deeper into today's episode and answer your questions about the case.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
It was a cold night in February 2021 when lead detective David Zoeski and his colleague Stephen Cunningham arrived at the crime scene.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
You start dealing with a series of shootings. It's a little out of the ordinary. Take me through that.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The patrol officers had already been out there canvassing the area. They were knocking on doors looking for anyone that might have seen anything or heard anything. The crime scene detectives were starting to locate all the shell casings.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
26-year-old Yale graduate student Kevin Jong was lying in the street, shot eight times.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
What we could see were gunshot wounds to his upper body and to his head. And you could see stippling on the left side of his head.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Stippling is a burn pattern caused by gunpowder exploding from a weapon fired at close range.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
About 100 feet down the street... There was a Prius just parked in the middle of the road with its hazards on.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
they quickly discovered the Prius belonged to Kevin. Crime scene detectives noticed a peculiar bit of damage that suggested it had been hit from behind.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The first shooting occurs on December 11, 2020, at Huntington Street in New Haven. There's a report of five gunshots in the area. The residence was struck multiple times. The house was occupied, but nobody was hit. When police responded, they located multiple .45 caliber shell casings at the scene. There's a second shooting that occurs January 15th, 2021. The third shooting occurred February 5th.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
There was an impression that was left on the back bumper that looked like a license plate holder.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
One witness told detectives she heard the sound of an accident and went to the window to look.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
When they look out, they see a Prius come to a stop and put its hazards on. They see a dark-colored SUV pull up behind it and then reverse back towards the intersection. They see the operator of the Prius walk out. and approached the SUV, most likely to see how they were, exchange insurance information.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
When the operator gets to the black SUV, they hear a round of gunshots and they see the muzzle flash from the gun from the driver's side of the SUV.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Another witness heard the first round of gunshots and went to her window.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
When she looks outside, she sees a subject wearing all black standing over another individual who's laying on the ground. She hears another round of gunshots, and she can see the muzzle flash from the gun as he's firing.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
She sees someone standing over another person, which means the victim is already down. And they're still shooting?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
There's a little bit more to it. It seems a little bit more personal when you have someone that's laying on the ground and not moving. What would cause someone to continue firing at them?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The detectives were able to confirm these accounts when they got a look at video from a neighbor's security system.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Because most of the frame is a reflection of the interior of the house, we've zoomed in to focus on what's happening on the street. A warning this may be difficult to listen to.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
We hear the collision between the two cars. And then that's when you see Kevin's Prius pull into frame and the SUV pulls up behind him and then reverses out of frame. You see Kevin exit his vehicle and then walk out of frame to approach the SUV. You then hear two gunshots, a scream, and then six more gunshots.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Moments later, the video shows the SUV driving off into the night. Can you make out any details when it comes to the SUV?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Unfortunately not. You could kind of get the idea of the potential make and model of it with the taillights, but you couldn't discern any identifying features.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Investigators soon felt the dark SUV and the .45 caliber shells recovered at the scene pointed to a potential link to those earlier shootings around the area that police had been investigating. Four times over a two-month span, someone fired shots into family homes. The fourth incident occurred just one hour before Kevin Jong's murder.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
We had detectives in the bureau looking into each of the incidents to see if there's any more of a connection to link them.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Nyree, a schoolteacher, headed upstairs to take a shower. Paul, an educator with degrees from Yale, Harvard, and Columbia University, was sitting downstairs.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
And then I heard bang, pop again. And I turned and I literally saw the frame of the door just splintered. And then she yells back at you.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
A fourth incident occurred on February 6th. It's another residence. It was occupied, but nobody was hurt inside. There were five rounds that were shot into. It was occupied. Fortunately, nobody was hit. The residents were struck multiple times by gunfire. Nobody was injured. Patrol officers located one .45 caliber located in multiple casings, .45 caliber.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
It was over in a matter of moments and no one was injured. Do you feel lucky? Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Detectives interviewed the Whites and the occupants of the other houses.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
And none of them, investigators say, had any connection to Kevin Jeong. But the shell casings from all the shootings would later tell a different story.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
When the casings are sent to the lab, they all came back as matches to the casings found at the homicide.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The casings matched, but Kevin was the only person murdered, and detectives didn't know why.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
It could have been a road rage incident that turned a little too violent.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The car accident, it was deliberate to get him out of the vehicle. Possibly seemed like it was planned.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
And if he was specifically targeted, what could have happened in his life to drive someone to do this?
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
It was late when Detective Zaweski and Cunningham left the crime scene on February 6th. They went to Kevin Jiang's home, looking to find a family member to notify about what had happened. His mother, Linda Liu, came to the door.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
You want to be direct and upfront and make it clear, as horrific as it is for them. So we explained to her that he was shot and killed in the area of Lawrence and Nichols Street in New Haven.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The detectives wanted to know everything about Kevin and why he may have been targeted that night. Linda began to tell them about her son.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
It was just the two of them, and he was actually supporting her. She told us that he was a grad student at Yonge University and was in the Army National Guard.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Kevin was deeply religious. He and his mother were part of the congregation at Trinity Baptist Church. Pastor Gregory Hendrickson knew them both and says that Linda, a divorced single parent, got Kevin through a tough childhood where he was often bullied.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Kevin bought this house in 2019, and Hendrickson says he invited his mother to come live with him.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Police also learned that Kevin had recently gotten engaged to his girlfriend of a year, Zion Perry. She posted the proposal on Facebook. This was just one week before he was murdered.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
He was so in love with Zion. You could tell. He didn't even have to really say too much. Oh, my gosh. So I remember one time he was on the phone with her, and I was like, wow. Like, you could hear the genuineness and his love towards her. And I was like, wow, I hope I find someone like that.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Zion Perry grew up in Pennsylvania, where she was an honors high school student. A couple met in January of 2020 when Zion was still an undergraduate at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, MIT.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Zaweski and Cunningham then interviewed an emotional Zion. She told them she and Kevin had spent the day together.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
The common denominator was the caliber of the gun that was used. It's 45 caliber casings that were located at all four of those scenes. And in the last two shootings, there was a description of a dark colored SUV.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
They had gone ice fishing and had dinner at her house, and then he left her house around 8.30 that night.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
Kevin didn't get far. His Prius was struck by the dark SUV just two blocks from Zion's house. close enough for Zion to hear the gunshots that followed.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
She remembers hearing the gunshots, but she thought there was a good five or ten minutes after he left to when she heard the gunshots. So she didn't think he was anywhere near the area and didn't think twice about him potentially being involved in any way.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
At that point, I don't know. Nothing that she told us that she could think of.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
After speaking with Zion, detectives were no closer to figuring out why Kevin would be a target.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
That night? Yes. We had a little bit, but there wasn't a lot to go on.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
But just 15 hours after the shooting... What are you doing back here? ...they got a huge break.
48 Hours
The Ivy League Murder
I just got in here accidentally and I got stuck. And it was like, wow.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
The judge was forced to declare a mistrial. It was here in Knox County, so it wasn't shocking to me.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
Everything good about this woman was twisted. Everything good about this woman was turned around to be evil.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
The first cartridge fired would be this one. The second would be this one. And the third would be this one.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
Was David Leaf in any way capable of any sort of voluntary movement after that bullet transected his brain?
48 Hours
The Black Widow
There was only one person who wanted to harm David. And at that point, it was David. He was acting suicidal.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
She was taking care of a sick husband who she loved. And for that to get twisted into what it did is upsetting. She's got hope that the justice system isn't so broken that it won't eventually realize the truth, which is that she's an innocent woman.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
I'll give it to you. It's unusual. But to say because of that it has to be a homicide, I just can't go that far. There is a phenomenon called cadaveric spasm where a person can actually their hands can squeeze immediately upon death. What would you have ruled this? I would have ruled this undetermined.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
He's a great lawyer. He's super prepared. Fantastic lawyer. Fantastic. He's a bad actor.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
Didn't have toxicology, didn't have ballistics, didn't have medical records. It went from, can we figure out what happened, to can we prove this was a homicide?
48 Hours
The Black Widow
I'm glad that she reassessed and didn't try to make the same claims about toxicology at the third trial, but it's six years too late for my client.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
Right. As a forensic pathologist, at least on the evidence that I've been privy to, there's no way on earth I think she's guilty.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
If anybody has any doubts as to whether David was murdered by Rinella, maybe they need to talk to Steve Walker.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
We're not saying we know exactly what happened, we're just saying we know there are multiple ways that all of this makes sense that don't have anything to do with the homicide. There was only one person who wanted to harm David, and at that point it was David. He was acting, with his physicians, suicidal.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
...where we were going with certain things and trying to piece those things together. Inside each line is an individual stain.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
I'm a crouton on a real big salad here, and this is a big salad in this town.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
She had a towel around her hands, and she comes up with it and starts shooting.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
I'm defenseless. She said, I used to be a better shot than that, but I can hit you from here. And she aimed that gun, and I closed my eyes. She pulled the trigger. I knew I was gone. But the gun was out of bullets. There was no doubt in my mind. If she hadn't run out of bullets, I'd be dead.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
Why would she plead guilty? It's the same thing I would have told her, is this is a plea that will get expunged. There is no jail time. Take this deal and walk away. Raynella Leith did walk away.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
something happens that no one sees coming. If you can picture like a cartoon, you know, of someone's jaw hitting the floor.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
If Judge Summers was so convinced that he was right about the evidence, Why not let us deliberate it? And how do you explain that? I can't. Only Judge Summers can.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
when Joshua Hedrick was sitting on that bed and he was twirling that cylinder on that gun. It was a burden to my family. It was just so corny.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
It was fake. He was trying so hard. After that, I was like, all right, they're trying so hard that it's so obvious now.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
He stole that verdict from the family, from the prosecution, from the jury. It was a theft.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
How are you doing, Raynella? You guys weren't worried about her before, so leave her alone now.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
I said to my mother I thought he'd hit the jackpot with this girl because she was so pretty and so interesting. I just thought, this is going to be a great fit.
48 Hours
The Black Widow
Yes. The reports were an agricultural accident, but some folks in the community had a problem with that scenario. Ed grew up on a farm. For him to have been trampled by his own cattle, that just didn't make sense.
Accidental Tech Podcast
605: Manage the Moisture Situation
Now the show is over, they didn't even mean to begin, cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental. John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him, cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental. And you can find the show notes at atp.fm. And if you're into Mastodon, you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S.
Accidental Tech Podcast
605: Manage the Moisture Situation
So that's K-C-L-I-S-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-A-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-A-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-A-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-A-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-A-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-A-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-A-N-T-M-A-R-C-O- So I have some updates about the Rivian.
Accidental Tech Podcast
624: Do Less Math in Computers
Now the show is over. They didn't even mean to begin. Cause it was accidental. Oh, it was accidental. John didn't do any research. Marco and Casey wouldn't let him. Cause it was accidental. Oh, it was accidental. And you can find the show notes at ATP.FM. And if you're into mastodon, you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S.
Accidental Tech Podcast
624: Do Less Math in Computers
So that's K-C-L-I-S-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-E-N-S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-U-S-A. It's accidental. It's accidental. It's accidental.
Accidental Tech Podcast
610: More Values in the Darkness
Now the show is over, they didn't even mean to begin. Cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental. John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him. Cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental. And you can find the show notes at atp.fm. And if you're into Mastodon, you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S.
Accidental Tech Podcast
610: More Values in the Darkness
So that's K-C-L-I-S-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-A-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-A-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-A-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-A-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-A-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-A-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-A-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-A-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-A-
Accidental Tech Podcast
601: Foreheads Over the Years
Now the show is over. They didn't even mean to begin. Cause it was accidental. Oh, it was accidental. John didn't do any research. Marco and Casey wouldn't let him. Cause it was accidental. Oh, it was accidental. Accidental.
Accidental Tech Podcast
601: Foreheads Over the Years
And you can find the show notes at atp.fm And if you're into Mastodon You can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S So that's Casey Liss M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M S-I-R-A-C U-S-A Syracuse It's Accidental It's Accidental It's Accidental
Accidental Tech Podcast
618: Type System Says No
Now the show is over. They didn't even mean to begin because it was accidental. Accidental. Oh, it was accidental.
Accidental Tech Podcast
618: Type System Says No
John didn't do any research. Marco and Casey wouldn't let him because it was accidental. Accidental. Oh, it was accidental. Accidental. And you can find the show notes at atp.fm And if you're into Mastodon You can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S So that's Casey Liss M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M S-I-R-A-C U-S-A Syracuse It's Accidental It's Accidental It's Accidental
Accidental Tech Podcast
618: Type System Says No
All right, John, you want to update us a little more specifically about your app?
Accidental Tech Podcast
608: Boot to Toot
Now the show is over They didn't even mean to begin Cause it was accidental Oh it was accidental John didn't do any research Marco and Casey wouldn't let him Cause it was accidental Oh it was accidental And you can find the show notes at atp.fm And if you're into Mastodon, you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S.
Accidental Tech Podcast
608: Boot to Toot
So that's K-C-L-I-S-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-E-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-E-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-E-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-E-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-E-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-E-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-E-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-E-N-T-M-
Accidental Tech Podcast
620: Mostly Cookies
Now the show is over, they didn't even mean to begin, cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental. John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him, cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental.
Accidental Tech Podcast
620: Mostly Cookies
and you can find the show notes at ATP.FM and if you're into Mastodon you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S so that's Casey Liss M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Hey, everyone. Welcome back. We're going to be diving into some pretty fascinating territory today. AI art. You guys sent in some really interesting questions about John Syracuse's blog post. I made this. And to be honest, it's got us thinking pretty hard over here, too.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Yeah, it really gets into some thorny territory fast.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
It does. It does. So, I mean, everybody's sort of played around with those early AI art generators by now, right? But Syracuse is kind of digging deeper here. He's asking, like, who actually creates AI art?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
It's a great question, because on the one hand, you've got these AI systems that are basically like giant sponges just soaking up all this data, right?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Exactly. And they can pump out these crazy realistic images in seconds.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Which is mind-blowing in itself, basically.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Totally. But Syracuse is really wrestling with something more fundamental, I think. He's trying to figure out if we can even call it creation when it comes to AI.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Right. Like, are we just talking about fancy algorithms here or is there something more going on?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
And that's where it gets interesting because he uses this analogy of emailing an artist and asking them to paint, you know, a polar bear wearing a cowboy hat riding a unicycle. The artist goes and paints it. Beautiful masterpiece. They own the copyright. No problem.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
But what if you swap out the artist with an AI?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Right. You just type that same request into a text box and boom, you've got your polar bear unicyclist.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Exactly. So then who's the creator in that scenario?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
No, you missed the middle part where you asked an artist to do it. Or is it the company that made the AI? That was the important part. Because it's their technology.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Before we can even begin to untangle the whole question of ownership, like who owns the copyright to AI art, we need to grapple with this more fundamental question of who or what is the creator in the first place?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Because if we don't know who the creator is, how can we say who owns it?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Precisely. And that's where things start to get really interesting and complicated.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
And I think that's what makes this such a big deal, right? It's not just some theoretical debate happening in a vacuum. This stuff has real world implications.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Absolutely. I mean, you think about all the different fields that could be impacted. Photography, graphic design, music, even things like writing and filmmaking. I mean, the potential here is huge. And it's already happening.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Right. Like it's not even a question of if AI will disrupt these industries. It's already starting to.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Exactly. And that raises a whole host of questions about jobs and livelihoods. And, you know, copyright law is scrambling to catch up with all of this.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Which is a whole other can of worms.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Oh, totally. But beyond even the economic and legal questions, Syracuse makes this really interesting point about the impact of all this on human creativity. Like what happens to us? What happens to art when suddenly anyone with an Internet connection can crank out something that looks like a masterpiece?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
I don't think I made that point at all. If you don't have to hold your craft over years and years of practice, does that diminish the drive to create in the first place?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Right. Like you think about your own creative pursuits, whatever they might be. There's a certain satisfaction that comes from the process itself, from pushing through those frustrating moments, those creative blocks and coming out the other side with something you're proud of, something that's uniquely yours.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Absolutely. I mean, I was working on this song a while back and I hit this wall just totally stuck. Couldn't figure out where to go with it. Almost gave up. But then, I don't know, something clicked and I finally broke through it. And that feeling of having wrestled with it and finally found the solution, it's just incredible.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
And I can't imagine getting that same feeling from just typing a few words into a computer.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Yeah, it really makes you question what it is we value about art in the first place. Is it purely about the end result? Or is there something inherently valuable about the human element, the intention, the struggle, the imperfections even that go into the creative process?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Is it even possible for AI to replicate that experience? And if it is, do we want it to? I mean, it's a lot to unpack. So where do we even go from here? We've got this potential decline in human creativity, this legal minefield around ownership. What's the next step?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Well, Syracuse doesn't pretend to have all the answers, but he does offer this really intriguing what if he suggests that maybe trying to force AI art into our existing copyright law is kind of like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
The idea that creation has to be this single definable act by a single entity, right? Which has always been the basis of copyright law. You can pinpoint the creator and therefore you can determine ownership.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
But AI throws a wrench in that whole system because it's not always so clear cut. Is the creator the programmer who wrote the AI's code? Or is it the user who typed in the prompt? Or is it somehow the data that the AI was trained on all those millions of images and text snippets?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
It's like this weird blend of human and machine creativity where it's almost impossible to separate the two.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Right. And so Syracuse's point is that maybe instead of trying to cram AI art into this outdated framework, maybe we need to rethink the whole concept of creation and ownership for the digital age.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
So instead of black and white, it's more like shades of gray.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Precisely. He's suggesting that maybe we need to embrace the ambiguity and complexity that AI brings to the table instead of trying to erase it.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
It's like AI is making us rethink like centuries of assumptions about what art is and who gets to be called an artist.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Yeah. And, you know, that can be a little unsettling for some people. Like it's challenging these deftly held beliefs about human exceptionalism.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Deftly held beliefs? Totally. But for others, it's like this really exciting time, this explosion of possibilities, like we're on the verge of something totally new and uncharted.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Exactly. And I think Syracuse captures that tension really well. He doesn't shy away from the hard questions.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
No, he definitely doesn't. And speaking of hard questions, he leaves us with a pretty big one. He says, instead of just asking, you know, who made this when it comes to AI art, maybe we should be asking, how do we want to define made in a world where AI is becoming this powerful creative force?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
I love that question because it shifts the focus away from trying to find the one true creator. And it puts the emphasis on what kind of future we're trying to create.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Exactly. Like it's not about assigning blame or credit anymore. It's about taking responsibility for the tools we're building and the impact they're having.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
And it's about recognizing that AI isn't just this neutral technology. It's shaped by our values or biases, the choices we make as a society.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
It makes you think about the ethical implications, all the unintended consequences that we might not even be able to foresee right now.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Absolutely. It's like opening Pandora's box in a way. But instead of just fearing what might come out, maybe we can try to steer it in a direction that benefits humanity.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
So it's not just a technological challenge anymore, right? It's a philosophical one, a social one, an ethical one.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Totally. It's about figuring out what it means to be human in an age of intelligent machines and what role creativity will play in all of this.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Yeah, and I don't think there are any easy answers here, but I do think Syracuse gives us a good place to start. But this is the end.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
We didn't get anywhere. It's about having those difficult conversations, being willing to challenge your own assumptions and being open to new perspectives.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
And I think that's something we've tried to do here today, to really grapple with the complexities of AI art. Are they going to do a Squarespace ad now? Absolutely.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
And I think it's a conversation that's only going to become more important, more urgent as AI continues to evolve.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
So on that note, I want to thank you all for joining us for this deep dive into the world of AI art. It's been quite a journey.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
It really has. It's just the beginning.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
So until next time, keep those creative sparks flying, whether they're human or artificial. And we'll see you all in the next one.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Now the show is over. They didn't even mean to begin because it was accidental. Accidental. Oh, it was accidental. Accidental. John didn't do any research. Marco and Casey wouldn't let him because it was accidental. It was accidental. And you can find the show notes at ATP.FM. And if you're into Mastodon, you can follow them.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
At C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S So that's Casey Liss M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M Auntie Marco Arman S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A Syracuse It's accidental They didn't mean to Accidental Tech Podcast So long
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Right. Get ready to fire up those stoves. Because today we're diving into something seemingly simple, but surprisingly nuanced. John Syracuse's legendary basic pasta sauce. You wouldn't think a simple tomato sauce would require such a deep dive.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
But trust me, Syracuse approaches this recipe with almost philosophical reverence.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
What's fascinating is how he breaks it down into this soft trinity, emphasizing that the ingredients, the process, and the time all hold equal weight. He argues you can't just nail one of these elements. You have to treat them all with equal importance.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Okay, so it's like three-legged stool, neglect one leg, and the whole thing collapses. So let's start with the foundation ingredients. And seriously, that doesn't hold back on his thoughts about tomatoes.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Oh, no, he goes deep, especially on the San Marzano tomatoes. He could have just said, use canned tomatoes. But no, he practically wrote a dissertation on finding the perfect San Marzano.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
For those of us who haven't quite reached that level of tomato enthusiasm, what is it about these San Marzanos? What makes them so special?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
They have this unique combination of low acidity, a natural sweetness, and a meaty texture, which makes them ideal for a well-balanced, flavorful sauce.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
However, Syracuse is also realistic. He knows finding truly authentic San Marzano's can be a challenge. He even links to this hilarious video where he's case testing different brands. Wow. I'm sorry, what?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Oh, man, I've got to see this video. Me too. Yeah, me too. I didn't know I made a video. Can they generate that for us?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
He does say a good San Marzano style tomato you enjoy is better than an authentic one you don't. Right. Exactly. And that actually ties into his whole philosophy. Is that two different people? Same voice? Understanding the ingredients. Ultimately trusting your own judgment.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
There's that trust element again, just like with the sauce trinity. You have to trust your gut, which leads us perfectly to the next part of the trinity. They're really adding a lot to this, because this is not that much text. And Syracuse gets real about the anxiety of burning the sauce.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
He does. I get real. People stop being polite. Start getting real about burning the sauce. Reference acknowledged.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
He says a burned sauce ruins the entire batch, which, let's be honest, is a fear we've all experienced in the kitchen. I hope you haven't all experienced it. But what's the science behind this low and slow approach?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Low heat allows the flavors to develop slowly and evenly without that harshness you get from high heat. And it prevents burning, which can ruin the flavor of the whole sauce. He's also a stickler for stirring, not just letting it simmer on its own.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
So it's about being engaged in the process, not just letting it simmer. This is so. He doesn't want us to just go off and watch TV while the sauce simmers.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
This is not a set it and forget it kind of sauce.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Speaking of being present and engaged, let's talk about Syracuse's very specific instructions on fresh herbs.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Oh, yes. The fresh factor, as I like to call it. He's very clear about wanting us to use only fresh parsley and basil chopped right before they go into the pot.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
He is. And I love how he emphasizes not refrigerating the basil, saying it dulls the flavor.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
It's like he wants to capture the essence of these herbs at their peak. And that little tip about storing parsley in a glass of water like a bouquet of flowers. So simple yet brilliant. So brilliant.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
He would argue, and I'd have to agree that it makes a world of difference, See, fresh herbs have these volatile oils that give them a vibrant, almost nuanced flavor, which you just don't get with dried herbs.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
It instructs us to add a whole peeled onion to the sauce, but then we just discard it at the end. Spoiler alert.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
It's like a culinary magic trick. No, it's not. It infuses the sauce with this really subtle depth of flavor.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
So it's like a secret ingredient that disappears, leaving behind its essence. It's not a secret.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
It's an ingredient. It's a classic technique to add another layer of complexity without overpowering the other flavors. Think of it like using a bay leaf. You don't eat it, but it subtly enhances the overall taste.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Mind blown. It's like sugar. Even when it comes to something as basic as an onion. Now, his actual cooking process seems pretty straightforward, wouldn't you say?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
It is, but straightforward doesn't mean foolproof. This is longer than the recipe you wrote. Way longer. Yeah, it is. Time.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Ah, yes, the simmer. He does have some specific guidelines about that, right?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
He does. He recommends simmering for one to two hours, which seems pretty standard for a good tomato sauce. But then he throws in this interesting curveball. He says he often finds less is more.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
So it's not like baking where you absolutely need to follow the recipe to the letter. You're telling me he's cool with me eyeballing it.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
The man could explain the nuances of drying herbs and make it sound like a suspense thriller. No. He emphasized the sauce as it simmers because overcooking can make it bland.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Wow. Wow. I'm blown. The more you cook it, the more flavorful it gets.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
That's what's so great about Syracuse's approach. He encourages you to trust your instincts, not just the clock. Your instincts. No, I definitely do not encourage that. And start adding those optional meat additions.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Right. We briefly touched on the meatballs and sausage before.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
How does simmering time come into play when you're adding those to the mix?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Well, now you're not just simmering for flavor. You're also making sure those meats are cooked through. And, of course, Syracuse has some very specific thoughts on this as well.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
I bet he does. Does he have a size guideline for the meatballs?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
He does. He actually compares them to sports equipment. He says they should be bigger than a golf ball but smaller than a tennis ball with a billiard ball being the absolute maximum size.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Only Syracuse could use sports equipment as a meatball size guide. What's the reasoning behind this?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
It all comes back to that final element of the sauce trinity, time. The larger the meatball, the longer it will take to cook through. You don't want to end up with undercooked meat in your sauce.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Safety first. So it's all about finding that balance between simmering long enough to develop those deep, rich flavors, but not so long that you end up with a bland or even worse undercooked sauce. It's a delicate dance, but clearly undercooked.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
It really highlights how even a seemingly simple sauce requires a certain level of like attention and care.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
It does, and that's what makes Syracuse's approach so fascinating. He doesn't just throw a recipe at you. He guides you through the process and encourages you to understand why.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
It's about trusting your sense of your instincts. You can tell they're not trained on our show. Yeah, exactly. Mind blown. What final thoughts would you leave our listeners with as they embark on their own pasta-making adventures?
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
I'd say use this recipe as a starting point, a foundation upon which to build your own culinary masterpiece. Don't be afraid to experiment with different tomatoes, maybe try a mix of herbs or even adjust the simmering time to suit your taste.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
So just like he trusts us to find the perfect San Marzano, he's also giving us permission to make this recipe our own.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Precisely. It's about discovering what brings you joy in the kitchen. Cooking shouldn't feel like a chore. It should be a celebration of flavors and creativity.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
And on that note, I think we've given our listeners plenty to chew on today.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Indeed. Chew on hot. The nuances of San Marzano tomatoes, the importance of low and slow cooking, the magic of a whole onion, and the empowering realization that even a basic pasta sauce can be a platform for culinary exploration.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
Who knew there was so much to unpack in a simple tomato sauce? A huge thank you to our expert for guiding us through this delicious deep dive.
Accidental Tech Podcast
607: The Structure and Vibe of a Podcast
And to our listeners, we hope this episode inspires you to approach all your culinary endeavors with a newfound appreciation for the process, the details, and the joy of creating something truly delicious. Until next time, happy cooking. Happy cooking, John.
Acquired
Meta
All right. So I was up late last night. Late for me as a dad is like 11 p.m. But I'm sitting here at my computer in my dark basement, you know, pulling notes together. David, what music did I have on? You have one guess.
Acquired
Meta
I remember Facebook events. Like when you look at the page, it was a Bing map, not a Google map that always like felt emblematic of the partnership to me.
Acquired
Meta
Yep. Okay, so interestingly, here we are, 2007, Facebook is still saying, we don't need to be in control of the core revenue creator for us. Like, we think platform is the future. Microsoft, you're our preferred partner to handle making the money.
Acquired
Meta
The other thing that's happening here is Mark still kind of thought ads were gross at this point in history. So the things he cared about were product and engineering and design, and he kind of wanted to outsource everything else or at least have someone else at the company think about it. And having Microsoft take care of the ads was, I think in his mind, kind of a win-win.
Acquired
Meta
That way the commodity stuff can happen elsewhere and I can focus on the thing that really matters. And the company really did not have the insight yet. Oh, we can do ads different and better than anyone has ever done them before.
Acquired
Meta
No way! He always talks about the growth team. I never knew he was in charge of Beacon first. Yeah.
Acquired
Meta
into this i actually i don't buy it at all the obvious thing is show an image that people can click on and take them to a website it's display ads and like i don't understand why they needed to try to way overthink it and say our ad format has to be something that no one's ever thought of before like just offer advertisers to do the thing that they know how to buy
Acquired
Meta
These are actually two different things, I think. There was Beacon, which was JavaScript that an advertiser could embed on their website, on an e-commerce provider's website, that would do exactly what you're talking about, publish into the newsfeed purchases that people were making. And like...
Acquired
Meta
This was at the point where you wanted to publish all sorts of interesting different things on social media. I don't think we knew for sure that purchases wasn't going to be one of them. Like people still keep their Venmo history public. You don't know what people are going to do. The second thing that I think is in your description there a little bit is the idea of social ads.
Acquired
Meta
That brands could take interactions that happen on pages and boost them, but they couldn't just take out a regular old ad. So it was this weird thing where like you could only advertise as a brand to people where someone in their network had interacted with your brand page.
Acquired
Meta
Pretty convoluted. I get that it's like this super natively social thing. But again, it did feel like they started in this place where like, let's get way too clever for our own good first and then work backward to the most basic ad unit.
Acquired
Meta
Yep. Users don't want it. Users are confused why they're seeing. I mean, certainly there's instant blowback against their publishing my purchases. Someone, I think, had an engagement spoiled by a diamond ring getting broadcast online.
Acquired
Meta
Yeah, nuts. There are only 8 billion humans on Earth. So as I started to brainstorm what the closest competitors could be to serving half of the humans, I thought, surely I can find it in empires or governments from the past where there is some larger percentage. Yeah, makes sense. Nope. The Roman Empire, at its peak, was only 40% of humans, tops.
Acquired
Meta
Yep. And then, of course, advertisers are confused and people don't really understand what's an ad, what's not an ad. They just burned credibility everywhere by launching both of these things.
Acquired
Meta
Oh, the social ads was years and years, but the purchases, you're right, that was just, I think, a couple weeks.
Acquired
Meta
She had built the greatest digital advertising system in the world. And Mark was like, oh, I'm trying to build the greatest digital advertising system in the world. Who could I ever get to do that with me? And wouldn't it be great if that person was also a good manager and leader who could teach me how to manage and lead? Yes.
Acquired
Meta
Yeah, she definitely famously kind of led the exploration of what business are we actually in here?
Acquired
Meta
Yeah, so it's funny that I don't feel like in the public eye we really knew these things. But as you kind of dig into the company history, you're like, oh, there are these moments in time where growth really did stall out. And Chamath has said on stage since then, oh, I totally thought that growth was done. And there's a few things to note about the growth team.
Acquired
Meta
Yeah. Everyone who wants to get into growth now, I don't think really fully grasps that is a brand new discipline invented in 2008. And the way they sort of defined it at Facebook was there's marketing, there's product, but marketing and product both touch customers in different ways. And so the left hand needs to talk to the right hand.
Acquired
Meta
So for example, you should not have a marketing team that is sending out emails through an email marketing system and a product team that is sending out notifications to users through the product with no notion of how they're speaking to each other.
Acquired
Meta
you should A, unify those efforts through one team, and B, that team should live within product, or at least that team should be tightly coupled to product with the general belief or reason for being that your product is the best lever to grow.
Acquired
Meta
No amount of marketing you could ever throw at something that is not integrated into your product will be as effective as your product doing a good job with features hitting the right users with the right message and the right value at the right time in a native way to the core feature set of the product.
Acquired
Meta
And so you've got Shamath, you've got Alex Schultz, you've got Naomi Gleit, and Javier Olivan. And so you've got this core early team. It's four people, and then it expands to kind of six or seven folks that are formed...
Acquired
Meta
really on this agreement between Chamath and Mark of we are going to have this dedicated growth team and our mission is going to be to grow Facebook using Facebook itself, not through extrinsic measures.
Acquired
Meta
Yes. There's these interesting things that make it tick. The first of which is this has to be the most data-obsessed team in the company. Every team should be data-obsessed, blah, blah, blah. But the growth team is really the one who sort of discovers, oh, here are the obvious places where users are deriving value. Here are the obvious places where users are getting confused.
Acquired
Meta
Here are the obvious opportunities to find new users. Here are the obvious opportunities to reduce friction. Analytics is the answer for that.
Acquired
Meta
And I think that there's a lot of really interesting stories, especially around internationalization of the growth team and partnering with other product teams around the company to say, what is an engineering and product approach to something that traditionally has been done other ways? Like the way most people would translate their product is by hiring translation engineers
Acquired
Meta
firms or by hiring a dedicated person to go through string by string and edit. Well, we're Facebook. We have all these users. What if we just, you know, when we're launching in Spain, surface different words to Spanish speakers and say, okay, is this the right word for Spanish or not? Hey, can you translate this and crowdsource it and double check it with everyone?
Acquired
Meta
And that way you can not just translate five or 10 of the top languages in the using Facebook itself. Because, oh, by the way, when you translate the product, way more people can use it. And so translation itself, internationalization is a growth lever, and we have product ways to do the translation with our users.
Acquired
Meta
That's exactly right. And I think my point with all this is, A, growth is a pretty new discipline in our industry. Two, growth is not marketing. It's very tempting. You see, especially with incumbents, like big Fortune 500 companies who have someone whose title is growth, and then you ask them what they do, and you're like, oh, no, that's not growth. That's marketing.
Acquired
Meta
You don't actually modify the product at all. So that's a different thing. And it's important to realize, like, not only did Facebook kind of invent the discipline, they are perhaps still the best at it. They really eat, sleep, and breathe the idea that growth comes from product.
Acquired
Meta
Man, it really is crazy, the Facebook diaspora. We're going to keep seeing this as we go along. There's other names where people will be like, whoa, I didn't realize they were at Facebook. But many of the names that have come up so far, yeah, the diaspora is pretty talented.
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Dude, I just got lost in it. Did you know that that's what I was looking at right now? No. I was sanity checking. I was like, oh, is that person part of the original growth team? And I opened Facebook. The newsfeed distracted me. I scrolled down. There were stories at the top. I scrolled down one post. Below that first post was an ad. Below that is people you may know.
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And I am like three panels over in people you may know because I was like, oh my gosh, I'm not friends with them. We're doing a podcast together live. And I just had that experience.
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Oh, this is funny, by the way. I watched two different talks by people on the early growth team, and one of them cited 10 friends in 14 days. The other cited seven friends in 10 days of, you know, how do you create the magic moment? Alex Schultz, who's now the CMO, gives this great talk, gosh, a decade ago at startup school with Sam Altman.
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And he makes the point, look, it's kind of a linear thing. Yes, you want as many friends as possible in the least amount of time. It's not like, oh, magically at 10 friends in 14 days, it's like super different than nine friends in 14 days.
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But you just set a threshold somewhere and you set the threshold and then you're like, okay, if we can deliver this delightful experience where now people have a rich newsfeed and the people they care the most about in the world to interact with, they're going to retain.
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I'm so excited for – I guarantee you at least one of the people that I just friended is going to be listening to this podcast and realize what just happened because I haven't friended anyone on Facebook in years. And I just sent out like three or four friend requests.
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Yes. They just have to – new growth tactic, have people do podcasts about the company and then –
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Well, if you're on the web and this is the late 2000s, you ask them to authenticate their web-based mail service of choice and then find out who they've been emailing and then use that to figure out who their friends are. Magic. Magic. You know, there's other less nefarious ways, you know, see who has sent them links in the past, who are also logged in Facebook users.
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That's right. They went from 150 million users to 350 million. No, in like one year. Isn't that wild? Crazy. The other core piece of the stat whenever you're looking at growth is to look at engagement. Engagement in 2008 was also in the doldrums. 50% of monthly actives were daily actives. And
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From what I can tell, that basically was just an artifact of as the company got bigger, every marginal user they added was sort of less engaged than the early core users. You know, when they went from colleges to high schools to open registration, it just was going to have slightly less product market fit. But growth team is focused not just on growing new users, actually an even better lever.
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Every long-term goal is retaining your existing users and the best lever for retention is engagement. And so that was where a huge amount of their energy went. So this is really interesting. 50% of monthly actives were daily actives in 08. Since then, they have basically improved that metric every year. There's been a little bit of variance, but it is now almost 70% today.
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been a maniacal focus on how do we make as many monthly actives, daily actives as possible year over year over year over year.
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How did that work? Because friend feed would just federate stories from other social networks into one aggregated feed.
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Man, FriendFeed was so awesome. It's funny in this era where I'm now checking multiple feeds every day, Twitter, Threads, Instagram, all the messaging services to catch up on my messages, occasionally the Blue app. I kind of need FriendFeed again. That was like the most amazing product.
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But yeah, I mean, talk about another amazing part of the Facebook diaspora. Facebook would later acquire FriendFeed.
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And then famously, Brett becomes the co-president of Salesforce by way of acquisition. And then eventually board chair at Twitter when the whole X thing was going on. And now he's on the board at OpenAI. Yeah.
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Crazy. And he's got a new startup of his own. So I'm telling you, the talent that moved through that place.
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So he ended up at Facebook for a while then after, I forgot about Paul too. That's unbelievable. Unbelievable.
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Okay, so FriendFeed invents the like button. Facebook, I believe, was going to call it the awesome button. And then at some point right before launching, I think Mark personally made the call. It's just too weird. Let's go with like.
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On the flip side, the concern was that it would actually decrease meaningful engagement. There'd be less comments.
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And the like button then also got used for pages. It became this sort of form of capital among brands of how many Facebook likes does your company have. which for a while actually meant you could organically get messages out to them. Every time you posted, it was as if a company was a person and you just show up in the feed before Facebook ultimately was like, eh, those are advertisements.
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Which is probably one of the last few years that that would be the case. I'm sure if you went to this school today, it'd be 80% of the classes or 100% of the classes really into computers.
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Yep. And the like button ended up being the perfect Trojan horse to move Facebook platform off of Facebook. So there was a reason for third-party websites to embed Facebook's JavaScript in their pages. Because of course you'd want to be able to like an article or like a brand all up on their website. You know, how many Facebook likes do you have?
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If that's what matters, we want people clicking like on our website too, not just over on Facebook. And so suddenly now every company on earth has some Facebook and has a
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reason to embed some Facebook JavaScript right there on their page, which, my goodness, that's going to serve as a great signal back to the advertising algorithm where we can drop cookies and we can see who is moving around the web in what ways.
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So it's perfect for platform, but it's also perfect for feeding data into their advertising system now that they have something that brands and third-party websites are incentivized to drop right on their page.
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It's also time to start thinking about what is our biggest existential threat. It's so funny that we're talking about, and the existential threats are over. We've won. We have platform going well. We have this advertising business going well. We're getting data from the open web because we have like buttons everywhere. Everything is going our way. We finally have it dialed.
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And none of that matters in a mobile world. As people shift from spending time on the web to other apps, that open web data used as signal goes away. All of your ability to take payments. By the way, Facebook had launched payments. At some point, they started requiring apps to use their virtual currency.
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Facebook credits. That's right. All of these amazing pillars that they've built were for the open web and created the most incredible business known to man. And mobile is a completely different thing.
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And Facebook was born on the web. I mean, how crazy is it that they could build Facebook on entirely free technologies at the beginning? Yeah. and then get distribution just by people sharing URLs around. Browsers are interchangeable. Operating systems are interchangeable. It works on any device that anyone wants.
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Yeah, if you live on the web, you have infinite degrees of freedom and flexibility to control your own destiny.
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And that's primarily because of that thing around you can't launch an alternative app store.
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Not to mention, if you are paying for things on their phone, you have to use their payment system. So Facebook credits ain't going to work because you can't charge 30% on top of 30%.
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Right. You get told what your development environment is. This is the language. These are the frameworks. These are the APIs you're allowed to call.
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Meta
And in fact, there's like a cultural allergy to the idea of polluting the beautiful, pristine, organic news feed with an ad. We don't require a big cultural change.
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Which, let's be clear, comparing those growth rates, another way to simplify that and say it is, our user base is shifting to mobile from desktop.
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Meta
I think I listened on Sound Jam, but it's just because I had a Mac. Oh, yeah. Future seeds of iTunes. Yep, that's right. It got acquired by Apple, and then eventually they, I think, built off the same code base and turned it into iTunes. But everyone used Winamp. That was the aim of music players.
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And at this point in time, there was approximately a two-week delay between pushing an update and it being reviewed and accepted.
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Or your company could be in a fight with that company and they could decide, eh, I don't think you should push any updates for a while until we resolve our fight.
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Exactly. And the wisdom at the time was that mobile apps should be narrow in their functionality, and you did not expect a single app to bundle in a ton of different use cases.
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And you can see why Facebook adopted that sort of early 2010s constellation of apps strategy. For a while, they had Slingshot, Poke, Messenger, Paper, Rooms, Riff... Camera. The belief by a lot of companies for the direction mobile was going was... There's going to be specialized apps each for their own tiny little purpose.
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And that's not great if a lot of your value is we bundle a lot of stuff in to create the most user engagement to all feed into each other for people to use all these different components of our application.
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Meta
No. So they're going public right into this. For the first time since our business is founded, we face a real existential threat completely out of our control that is going to make the next few years look really bad. Let's go public.
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Meta
Yes. But first, it is time to talk about one of our favorite companies, Statsig. A phrase that many of you will know from Facebook's early days is move fast and break things. But despite instilling this in Facebook's engineering culture, Facebook didn't actually break very often. And it essentially never goes down now. How?
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Meta
wild. You might wish your team could build products like Facebook, right? Ship fast, make data-informed decisions, iterate rapidly, but you don't work at Facebook and you don't have those tools. So you're stuck, right?
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And they've also gotten some crazy traction over there at Statsig. Many of the world's leading tech companies rely on them, including OpenAI, Microsoft, Notion, Anthropic, Figma, plus thousands of early-stage startups. In fact, their scale has gotten so crazy that they process over a trillion events per day. For any engineers listening, they have a great blog post about how they do this.
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Meta
Thanks, Statsig. All right. So, David, here we are. We're going public despite everything you just listed that is wrong with the future of mobile and this company.
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Yes, it is a odd time to go public, given everything with mobile. And of course, they're being forced into it. There actually are a couple of kind of tailwinds that they have that are probably worth touching on here. The first of which is they had just beat Google+. That's right. Facebook treated this like a total existential threat. We laugh about Google+, now. It's a butt of jokes.
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But that's because Facebook was so effective in competing against it I'm not saying the product itself was amazing and it would have been fine without Facebook, but Google did not end up executing that well on that product.
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I mean, this is like the growth team plus Facebook's engineering culture at its finest in defeating this. Whether or not they executed the product well, Google was the big web tech company at the time, and they put a ton of resources and a lot of their best people on it. And they had Gmail. And they had Gmail, right.
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So it's interesting to look at this because Google basically is Facebook's biggest business model comp, right? They show ads on the web, and they monetize that really well. This theoretically could have been in their wheelhouse. This is just more real estate to show ads on the web. And they've already got all these people with user accounts. You can see why Facebook took this really seriously.
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Meta
We've talked a lot about Facebook's technical prowess. Well, here is an example of where it really kicks in when you need it to, to be a key competitive advantage. So they structured themselves in a way that encouraged flexibility of engineers. And they really broke from the tide of microservices in this era. They had one monolithic code base that everyone worked out of.
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Meta
And you might say, well, that's stupid. Why would they? That's not the way the world was going. But... What they basically did was they wanted to encourage portability of teams. If you're an engineer, you get hired into the company, not onto a team. You learn the company's code base, you learn the company's conventions, and you can easily sort of move around after that.
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Meta
You do have to deal with the trade-off then of you have this big monolithic code base with gigabytes of PHP code for thousands of engineers. What do you do about that? Well, then they just had their cake and eat it too. They would go and have the... infrastructure team figure out how to deal with that problem rather than saying, oh, everyone can just work in their little silos.
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Meta
And so that meant that engineers could kind of be quickly reorged. They could have this company-wide lockdown to fight Google+. And they did all sorts of things. They launched video calls to compete with Hangouts. They launched something to compete with Google Circles. But either way, they could really quickly reallocate resources and people who sort of knew how to work together
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to defeat what could have really been an existential threat from their biggest similar company.
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Meta
Yep. There is a second way in which things had settled down and now was a good time to go public, and that's around privacy. Facebook had just been, I mean, playing way too fast and loose with user privacy for years, and it had finally caught up with them by 2011. And just to jog your memories, I'm sure people may remember a lot of these.
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Some of these included, even though users could restrict the audience of their posts with a setting, this apparently didn't apply to apps, which could access these posts regardless of how you restricted the audience. And for a time, this even included when your friends installed an app too. You didn't even have to grant the permission yourselves.
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Similarly, they made friend lists public without user consent at one point. Facebook could decide without user consent to change private fields of your profile to be public, and this wasn't always messaged as clearly as it could have been to users. So to remedy this, they had just signed what is called a consent decree with the FTC, the U.S.
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Federal Trade Commission, in 2011, and they promised to make a bunch of changes regarding user privacy issues going forward. And so all this was behind them now. And interestingly, David, an FTC consent decree is the same thing that Microsoft signed.
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Yes, the FTC consent decree with Microsoft was the predecessor to the big DOJ suit. In this case, the FTC consent decree is the predecessors to what eventually would become the Cambridge Analytica settlement. So here in 2011, the way that they settle this is there's a bunch of provisions that with Facebook promising they'll be tighter on making sure user data is treated in a very particular way.
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They're subject to audit every year for two years, for the next 20 years. You know, there's all these things that they sort of agree to. But, you know, once you sign a consent decree, it's like, okay, we're through it. We don't have this thing hanging over our heads. We can go public and say, oh yeah, that's in the past. We've taken care of it. That's another reason to go public right now.
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Meta
Yep. You could almost look at it like a little bit of a win of everyone knows us as the company that is a little bit dodgy on privacy practices. At least the public perception is this, that they're constantly... Changing the terms of the game, shall we say. Yes, to the company's advantage when it was confusing or misleading to users.
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And now you can say, look, not only did we sign that, we have these five product initiatives in place where we're just buttoned up now. I actually think that's pretty true. I think they became a company that had rigorous privacy practices. because of some government regulation when they otherwise may not have.
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Meta
I mean, if you look at the early days of what you could do as a developer on platform, it was pretty wild west. And so I'm not saying it's fully because of the consent decree, but they could definitely tell a story around, look, we made some mistakes, we got some things wrong in privacy, and going forward, we're in good shape.
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Meta
You know, the data's a little bit hard to actually find from that period of time. But the British Empire, which we have a little bit better handle on, at its peak was only 23% of the global human population. So no government, tech company, utility, etc. has ever addressed so much of the world. It's just wild. There's no other way to put it.
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Meta
Well, not to mention Instagram had 27 million users. Facebook had 900 million users. This was potentially a problem for future Facebook, but this was not currently a problem.
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Meta
Not to mention, on top of it all, we're not going to go into it here because we had a whole episode on Facebook and Instagram, but this was done over two days, over the course of a weekend. Mark didn't do a whole lot of socializing this before pulling the trigger. He just knew it was the right thing to do and did it.
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Meta
Yeah, and I think Microsoft was one of them too. It was for like a million dollar acquisition offer or something like that. It wasn't, you know, crazy, but these are high school kids.
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Which both of those are mature companies that are going public under weird circumstances. Those are not comps. Totally. Yes.
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Meta
So you have to have nerds of steel to even just keep holding. I'm sure anybody who got back to even at 16 months was delighted.
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Meta
Yep. And so here is where founder control matters. This is... David, it's interesting you're explaining the mechanics of a death spiral. That would presume there's a board of directors who feels a strong desire to do whatever is best in the interest of the shareholder, and they might think that it's these short-term things. But... Yes. Yes. So, a little fun anecdote for everyone.
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Meta
David and I, among the 20 other people we talked to to prep for this episode, one of them was Sheryl Sandberg. And we were asking Sheryl, in particular, how did you start the monetization effort on mobile? They were in the third column. There's no third column on mobile. What did you do? And her comment to us was, oh, we just stopped caring about the right side ads on desktop.
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Meta
Right. He sort of always knew he had a great fallback plan. So it kind of let him be risk on.
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Meta
And we took every engineering resource we could off of that. And we put it on mobile. And we knew we were going to miss the current quarter. I think they missed a lot of quarters right after their IPO. But this was us trading the present for the future. And all we cared about was our future. And she said this great quote.
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Meta
She was sitting there with Mark late at night. And when they sort of arrived at this plan of we are going to forego a lot of desktop revenue to basically bet it all on figuring out mobile revenue, she said, well, Mark, nobody can fire you and only you can fire me. So if you're in, I'm in. And we buckled our seatbelt and we said, here we go. And it's amazing.
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Meta
I mean, that can only happen in a founder-controlled company. And it really did force them to figure out mobile advertising. If they really are saying, like, this is the new first-class product, this is where we're going to point all advertisers toward... If they're wrong on that, they're wrong across the whole board.
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Meta
Because if ads suck on mobile, since it's the only thing and it's filling up your whole screen, user engagement is also going to nosedive. And so it's basically a bet-it-all moment where the ads are front and center, so they must be good. It is essential for the mobile product and thus your company for them to be good.
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Meta
Users' attention will be pointed at these ads like no other ads you have ever run before. And actually, the flip side of this is it ended up being the best thing ever for the company. Because the ads are front and center, the value per ad is actually higher.
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Meta
So they ended up creating a much, much more valuable ad unit than they ever had on desktop purely because of this incredible attention on them when you're scrolling in feed on mobile. Necessity is the absolute mother of invention.
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Meta
Yep. Also, bummer if you are an employee selling six months after that IPO. Hopefully as many people held as they could to get through it.
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Meta
And it's an iterative process where you're going to hear a bunch of feedback from brands and you're going to say, ooh, we got to modify the ad products, which still continues to this day. They roll out and modify ad products. It's not like a, all right, we now have ads in the newsfeed. We're good.
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Meta
Totally. Do you remember those Mary Meeker decks that used to go around where they would show the mobile advertising, basically the shortcoming? Look at all this attention that has shifted to mobile, and yet the monetization just isn't there. And that was a story every year for like a decade.
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Meta
Have you seen this? His dad sort of filming his reaction, and he's pretty measured about it. It's very, yep, got into Harvard, and then kind of goes back to doing something else on his computer.
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Meta
This is the most interesting thing. At this point in history, Mark is putting pressure on Boz and Cheryl to show fewer ads. Yes. And Boz is the one with the contrarian view who comes to Mark and says, we're thinking about this all wrong. We actually need way more ads. not just a little more ads, huge amounts more ads because a great ad is on par with content.
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Meta
And if you have tons and tons of ads, then we can do way better targeting. Like you have this beautiful liquid marketplace of hundreds of thousands of advertisers, billions of users, and at any given time, somebody can see the optimal ad for them and get recommended an amazing product that perfectly fits their needs in that moment. with messaging that's perfectly tailored for them.
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Meta
Great advertising can be great, but you need a really, really liquid marketplace and you need fantastic algorithms, which you can only have if you train them on tons and tons of data. So like we actually need 10,000 times more ads than we have right now, not less. It's almost like the only way out is through. We're going down this path.
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Meta
And basically, like, that's what happened. I mean, flash forward 10 years, I opened Instagram to get great product recommendations.
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Meta
And probably not that early if... I guess that's right, because all the resources got pulled off of it.
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Meta
It's the best ad unit in history. It's an ad that completely fills the screen on your device and that users are okay with. So this is the most insanely captivating, engaging ad unit that you could possibly ask for. And it came out of necessity. It's wild. The fact that they thought their backs were against the wall, they were totally screwed.
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Meta
And instead, actually, it's the thing that monetizes better and is better for advertisers than any other advertising product they've ever had.
Acquired
Meta
Right. Right around this time, too, the other thing that's happening is, kind of glossed over this for time, but Facebook's initial attempt at a mobile app was to try to work around all the constraints of the mobile app ecosystem, and they thought, well... That's nice that the app stores are going to try and box us in, but we'll just ship our mobile web views inside of a thin little app wrapper.
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Meta
And that way we can deploy multiple times a day. You know, we're Facebook. This is what we do. It's part of our culture. HTML5, woo! Provided a horrible user experience. I mean, the engagement on the app was low. Time spent was low. It was a risk to start selling these ads. because people don't want to spend any time in the app, even without ads, let alone when you start layering these in.
Acquired
Meta
And so they're finally starting to sort of pull out of this tailspin. They basically spent a year completely rewriting all their mobile clients to be these rich, beautiful native experiences. This is a thing that Facebook has always been good at. Whenever they decide to do something, they go and recruit like the actual best talent in the world to do it.
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Meta
And this group of people that they pulled together from Joe Hewitt forward to write their original iOS app, it's just like, some of the best iOS developers and designers in the world. They hired Mike Mattis and the Pushpop Press team when they acquired them. That's right. That's right. That became, I think it was Creative Labs. Is that right? Facebook Creative Labs.
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Meta
But, you know, a huge amount of that talent worked on their mobile apps. And so while they had the wrong strategy at first, once they got religion around native, they really created something, probably one of the best apps ever on mobile. Yeah.
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Meta
Yeah, reading in between the lines, it seems like the thing that he was most excited about is, oh good, a challenging environment where I will encounter other really smart people like myself who are ambitious.
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Meta
I don't know that it was hope as a strategy. I think it was more like, if this can work, it's going to solve a lot of our problems. And I don't think they correctly estimated how wide the user experience chasm is between web apps and native apps.
Acquired
Meta
And I think they had to have an app in market where users were actually using it to realize, oh man, the state-of-the-art in native that the platform vendors have developed, iOS and Android, is really, really good.
Acquired
Meta
And they have brought very little of that to the web experiences, partially because of standards bodies, but also partially because it's not really in their interest to make web apps great when they can force everything through an app store that they have more control over. Yeah.
Acquired
Meta
And that in particular, I mean, everyone's going to laugh when we say this word, the legitimate synergy between going to an advertiser and saying, you can use this dashboard to get placements on Facebook and on Instagram is massive.
Acquired
Meta
Both of those products monetize better than they ever could without that single channel that the advertiser only has to go through and use one dashboard to place on both products. If you flash all the way forward to today, the lion's share of Meta's revenue comes from the ads that run on Facebook and Instagram. Their whole business today can just be summarized as that.
Acquired
Meta
The big brand advertisers may not move to this new type of ad format right away, but the people that are going to be really hungry to move to that ad format are a game developer who makes a mobile app and wants to market their mobile app to people who are A, on that platform, and B, in a leanback experience where they're open for some entertainment.
Acquired
Meta
And when you are scrolling through a feed of your friends and brands and you are open to, oh, Hey, look at this, a game where I could click one button and then boom, install a game and play it. Is there a better moment and channel to reach someone for an app? No. I mean, even if you're Apple, Apple doesn't have a better way to do this.
Acquired
Meta
People don't search the app store for apps that often, so you'd have to show them like a pop-up ad or something. Facebook just has this opportunity where you're in an experience where you're open to some new form of entertainment, and they have the ability to place a button there with rigorous targeting and incredible ad sales force.
Acquired
Meta
Totally. The Instagram team noticed over time that even before Snap started eating their lunch, that engagement would decrease the longer you stayed an Instagram user because you over time being done with these permanent posts and you sort of saved it for the big announcements in your life that there wasn't a natural way to just effortlessly share.
Acquired
Meta
Because when these platforms all started, everyone was in debt sharing with the town square the whole time and everyone was getting a little bit more clammy about that as time went on.
Acquired
Meta
And so every piece of data and metric that they had, you're right. They sort of realized, oh, the world is shifting from town square to living room is the way that Mark put it.
Acquired
Meta
Also, can I just say, how crazy is it that Adam D'Angelo would become Facebook's first CTO? They don't go to college together.
Acquired
Meta
Right. And by living room, he means small private groups of super close relationships.
Acquired
Meta
If you own an engagement platform and someone figures out a new mechanic to make them much more willing to freeform share and your platform seems to encourage them to stay back, be quiet, only post once in a while, maybe lurk, It's not good. Content creation on the platform going down is really, really bad if you are an engagement company.
Acquired
Meta
You know, Snap represents the idea that people are sharing way more if it's ephemeral, and WhatsApp represented the idea that people are shifting the places they communicate from more public to more private and from larger groups to smaller groups, both of which are concerning if you are a Facebook Blue app.
Acquired
Meta
In the over 20 years since its founding, Meta truly has connected humanity through its apps. Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, Messenger, and now threads. So today, we're going to study how they did it. there's been a lot of ink spilled writing about Facebook over the years.
Acquired
Meta
Well, to have that, you would either need to have some kind of SDK that gets bundled into apps like an analytics provider, or you would need like a VPN where like the traffic was going through it so you could see the traffic.
Acquired
Meta
Yeah, I think they looked at it as we need some way to level the playing field if we're competing against Apple and Google in different ways, and they have this data because they own the platforms. We kind of need to be able to see those same trends. On the other hand, there is another way to view this. If you're looking for examples where Facebook...
Acquired
Meta
you know, may have considered their own interests over being forthright with users over how their data is used. Well, this could be another big example. Users who were using Onavo didn't download it with the intent of sharing, you know, their app usage data with Facebook.
Acquired
Meta
Because Harvard's is weird, right? It's like you can leave, and if you ever want to come back, it's like you never left.
Acquired
Meta
Yeah. So obviously they fought those two companies in very different ways. One thing they learned from fighting Twitter over the years is that there are these social mechanics. Or perhaps an interaction paradigm might be the right way to talk about it. A post or a like or a retweet or a disappearing photo message. And the thing that kind of matters is owning a valuable network.
Acquired
Meta
The idea that people are going to come and give you their attention and you own the place that they connect with other people that they authentically, verifiably know. That's the scarce commodity in order to kind of win the engagement game. And the mechanics are actually kind of fungible. And they're totally a means to an end.
Acquired
Meta
So if you discover some mechanic and you build this whole multi-hundred million user network platform, ad platform based on it, that's great as long as no one comes up with a better mechanic than you and then goes and rebuilds the network somewhere else. So one thing they learned with Twitter was, hmm... They seem to be growing really fast with this status update thing.
Acquired
Meta
We need to look a lot more like status updates. And that worked pretty well. There were a lot of people that basically never switched to Twitter because they thought, oh, I can just use Facebook for this.
Acquired
Meta
And it also has photos. So like Twitter is this weird esoteric text sharing thing. I'm not really all about that. I'm just going to keep using Facebook.
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So as they're looking around at Snap, hey, someone has discovered this new stories mechanic. My goodness, that is suddenly obvious that that is what the future is. It now feels old to do anything else. It's kind of like when you got a Retina iPhone for the first time and you're holding your non-Retina iPhone and you're like, this is instantly a piece of crap.
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I'm not ever going to touch this disgusting thing again. I think when someone invents a new interaction paradigm, it's one of these things where, like, you have to adopt it because otherwise people are just going to flee.
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And of course, your business depends on you adopting it because you can't let someone use this new discovered mechanic that's perfectly timed for this moment in history with these set of cultural acceptances and this new set of technologies to go rebuild the network somewhere else. And so I think the thing that they sort of discover is...
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either through buying or through copying a mechanic, we need to protect our network by bringing these interactions into our family of apps, either by, as Ben Thompson would put it, the audacity of copying well, or of course, by buying them.
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Copying well or buying well? Yes. So listeners, of course, we don't actually ever know what anybody's intent is or what they're thinking when they decide to buy a company or something like that. This is just sort of David and I guessing at strategy from the outside. We do have, thanks to a court case, an actual email from Mark Zuckerberg on February 28th.
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2012 to their then CFO talking about at the time they're sort of discussing the Instagram acquisition, but laying out the idea behind an acquisition strategy. The basic plan would be to buy these companies and leave their products running while over time incorporating the social dynamics they've invented into our core products.
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One thing that may make neutralizing a potential competitor more reasonable here is that there are network effects around social products and a finite number of different social mechanics to invent. Once someone wins at a specific mechanic, it's difficult for others to supplant them without doing something different.
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It's possible someone beats Instagram by building something that is better to the point where they get network migration, but this is harder as long as Instagram keeps running as a product.
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pause which is pretty interesting that is the argument of why to keep instagram separate and running as its own product is because instagram's already discovered this fascinating new mechanic around publishing one image at a time with these beautiful filters if anybody else tries to come after them they're already ahead so actually the best thing to do is own instagram and let it keeps doing its thing anyway
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Resuming, integrating their products with ours to improve the service is also a factor, but in reality, we already know these companies' social mechanics, and we will integrate them over the next 12 to 24 months anyway. The integration plan involves building their mechanics into our products rather than directly integrating their products, if that makes sense.
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By a combination of these two things, neutralizing a potential competitor, integrating their products with ours to improve the service, one way of looking at this is that what we're really buying is time. Even if some new competitor springs up, buying Instagram, Path, Foursquare, etc., now will give us a year or more to integrate their dynamics before anyone can get close to their scale again.
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Within that time, if we incorporate the social mechanics they are using, those new products won't get much traction because we will already have their mechanics deployed at scale. It is goddamn brilliant, David. Here's my commentary based on all this. It is so smart to basically say, well, if we buy them, we basically get two strategies that we get to execute at the same time.
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One, we just leave them alone and let it keep succeeding. It's actually not a current potential threat. We don't know if it will turn into a potential threat. Hell, Instagram wasn't making any money yet. WhatsApp didn't have a feed. It was just a way people connected. It's not like just because they had a network, they were going to turn it into a feed.
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So there's this idea that it's not a competitor now. By buying it, we basically get this option on if it becomes a competitor, if we completely leave them alone and let them decide what to do. But then there's also, look, we will integrate those mechanics into our core product, Facebook, the blue app that already has well-built out network effects.
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And by owning this thing that could become a competitor, there isn't white space in the middle. Anyone just like us is also going to take time And they're not going to do it as good as the original, and they don't have our network. Therefore, whether the winner turns out to be the original product or us incorporating the mechanic into the Blue app, we've won either way.
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And probably what's going to happen is both. Yes. So brilliant. And that is what happened with Instagram. WhatsApp is actually kind of different. It never really turned into a competitor. It just serves a completely different use case and is also owned by Meta. And then with Snap, they tried to buy Snap over and over again, and it didn't work.
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And so they basically figured out how to bring those mechanics into Facebook's core products with Stories in a way that Snap kept doing their thing, but there was really no reason to leave being an Instagram user because you already had that functionality with your own network anyway.
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Right. That's interesting. Basically, even if you copy the feature wholesale, it's actually even better, not just because you have the network, but because your algorithm tech is very advanced. You can make sure it's the most possible engaging version of that particular interaction design.
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In the mid-20-teens here, there's a bunch of other stuff that we got to get to, but TikTok is particularly interesting because it kind of blindsided Facebook. Yes.
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If you believe that the asset that matters is the authenticated, real-name network of people you actually know or people you care about following, you kind of think, oh, I always have a lead as long as I can incorporate someone's mechanic, right? What if engagement is possible on an app that has nothing to do with your social network?
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That's terrifying because this big asset that you've built, this durable competitive advantage of we already have all the people, so why would you want to go anywhere where your friends aren't? The magic of TikTok was AI suddenly, in the late 20-teens, became sufficiently advanced that it could show you the optimal thing created by anyone in the world.
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Most of the time, you don't actually know that person. So suddenly, the only competitive advantage that Facebook, the company, has is people have a habit of tapping on their apps when they're bored. But that's a pretty thin competitive advantage. That's really easy to break.
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Totally. And so if someone is a great competitor like TikTok, who is incredibly well-funded, very good at strategically buying ads, has created their own growth function that is, they're just a very different animal and they're a very well-executing machine. And they obey a completely different set of laws, rules, regulation, norms, being a Chinese company.
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that created a competitor for Facebook that is more significant than anything they've ever faced. This wasn't like, oh, there might be an existential threat from this in the future. This was like, oh, crap. As soon as people form a habit around, oh, I just opened this black app with the white little music note on it, we have no more competitive advantages to throw at that problem.
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So we must as fast as possible make something like Reels just to stem the bleeding. And then we can figure out what to do from there and hopefully get to a market stalemate with them.
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That's a great point. Right. It's digital media. It's user-created media. It's mobile media. But it's really not social media.
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What matters is in the first 10 videos you look at, is their AI pretty good at picking up the stuff that you care about and the stuff that you don't? It's not, can you find a whole bunch of other people you know?
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Right. It's turned into this pretty interesting dual-pronged approach that they now have, which is you open Instagram and you have Reels. So the job to be done by TikTok is now done by a thing that you already have habit around. It's bundled into the place where you actually consume your social media. Great. That's step one. Step two is this is where it's nice to have WhatsApp.
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This is where it's nice to have Messenger for these living room style conversations with just a few of your friends. The new user behavior is I see a thing that got millions of views. I can think of one or five people to share that with. And then I have a private conversation about this public object in private.
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And from where social networking started back in 2004 and ending up now in this reasonably complex interaction paradigm of I get AI-served videos from people I don't know tailored to me, and then I privately share those in multiple groups with those who I love and care about.
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It's crazy that we use the term social network or social media for these two things that are like light years apart.
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And the important thing with Synapse was it was a single-user application, so it could analyze my songs and tell me what to listen to. This is the first time Adam, Mark, you know, particularly Adam in this case, is discovering... A very different type of application that gets better as more people join it.
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Makes sense. It's the most formidable competitor they've ever faced. And they really have no way to neutralize it.
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Meta
All right. So all this talk of TikTok, them being an AI-first company, clearly Meta today is an AI-obsessed company. How did that start?
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Yes, they provide a revolutionary approach to managed cybersecurity that isn't only about tech. It is about real people providing real defense around the clock.
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Meta
So listeners, Huntress created a full managed security platform for their customers to guard from these threats. This includes endpoint detection and response, identity threat detection and response, security awareness training, and a revolutionary security information and event management product that just launched.
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Meta
Essentially, it is the full suite of great software that you need to secure your business plus 24-7 monitoring by an elite team of human threat hunters in a security operations center to stop attacks that software-only solutions can sometimes miss.
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Meta
Huntress is democratizing cybersecurity by taking security techniques that were historically only available to large enterprises and bringing them to businesses with as few as 10, 100, or 1,000 employees at price points that just make sense for them.
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Meta
So if you want cutting-edge cybersecurity solutions backed by 24-7 expert humans who monitor, investigate, and respond to threats with unmatched precision, head on over to huntress.com slash acquired or click the link in the show notes and just make sure to tell them that Ben and David sent you. Okay, so David, Meta Today, clearly an AI-obsessed company. How did that start?
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Meta
Yeah, or all these crazy things are happening because we've been having to play defense as user attention shifts with this new paradigm of mobile. How do we not let that happen next time? Like, how do we play a more active role in whatever the future of technology is so we're not getting whiplashed around and we can kind of control our own destiny a little more?
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Meta
They were mostly doing computer vision. The early machine learning folks at Facebook were mostly looking at, can we do automatic image tagging to reduce the... You remember how cumbersome it used to be when you'd upload a big batch of photos, then you had to go tag every single one? And then somehow, magically, I don't remember the exact year, it was all pre-suggested. And you were like, whoa.
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Meta
Yeah. This is pretty cool. That was what the original ML folks at Facebook were doing.
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Meta
We haven't talked about this at all at this very long episode so far, but Facebook had been doing a ton of open source publishing in basically everything they were doing. They were open sourcing things like Cassandra in their backend. They were open sourcing front-end frameworks, both on mobile and on web.
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Exactly. They'd been open sourcing a lot of the language modifications they were making. I don't think Open Compute had started yet, but that was right around this time where they were starting to open source their data center designs. Data center architecture, yep. Facebook definitely has a very particular open source strategy that we're going to talk about in analysis.
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But needless to say, they have been advocates of open source since the very beginning.
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This was pretty, I don't want to say contrarian, that would have been wrong, but it's one of a dozen specializations of computing that you could have sort of glimpsed into for the future. Yep.
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Meta
Yes. So it's very funny that the rest of the world is having their AI moment now because Meta had theirs in 2013, 14.
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Before language models, like long before LLMs, Facebook realized they could profitably spend billions of dollars on AI systems to recommend, A, what post you should see next in your feed, and B, what ad out of the entire inventory of ads we could show you, what is the best one for you at this moment in time? for that advertiser's spend.
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And for its first 10 years, most of that writing focused on the many benefits to society with breathless exuberance over milestone after milestone. And for the past 10 years, it's kind of seemed like Meta could do nothing right. Reporting focused on its many stumbles, the massive mistakes, the incredible controversies surrounding the company.
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And today, there's a lot of companies who are spending on AI in hopes that the use case materializes in the future. Facebook's is like wildly proven and has been for a decade and is incredibly profitable for them. So that's just like something to keep in mind whenever you're looking at Facebook talking about AI today.
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Meta
Yeah, there's a lot of future looking stuff they're talking about, but it is already super at scale and a great business and has been for a long time. And they've just been, you know, it's like they've been quiet about it, but no one cared until now.
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Meta
Right. It is a nice-to-have for Meta if the next form factor of computing is an AI assistant like Meta AI. But it's not essential. That's, you know, one of many things that they could do profitably with AI technology. Yep. The other thing you kind of got to remember is 2012, Facebook, their engineering brand still wasn't top notch.
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Like everyone knew that they were a up and coming great startup that went public and But they weren't necessarily reputable in the computer science community as these people are Microsoft-level researchers to advance the state of the art.
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Meta
Yes. And I think Mark and Shrepp had to make this point to Jan. And then when Jan joined, it kind of made the point to the rest of the industry that, that this is not something that's going to like wax and wane with our financial results. We're in for a decade on this particular area of research. It's kind of amazing.
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It really only took like two years to bear fruit for them before they had profitably deployed AI systems in production. Because most of the time, these research projects take much, much longer.
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Meta
It just makes every ad that's displayed more likely to make money, and it makes every feed post that is displayed more likely to get engagement.
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Meta
And this is just like what Meta did with Threads, with WhatsApp. You know, with Threads, they've said, we're not monetizing it right now. We're going to see if it becomes a big, close to billion user platform. And if it does, then great. We'll figure out the right monetization strategy, just like we did with WhatsApp. It may or may not be ads specifically, but...
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Meta
We build things that get engagement and then we later figure out how to make money on them.
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Meta
Yep. Which is what tied their hands and why they could not pursue an investment in Facebook.
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Meta
If not for FAIR, TikTok could have disrupted Facebook. Totally. I mean, Reels would not have come out as fast as it did. Right. Facebook would not have had that near-term weapon to go... huh, we need something that kind of stops our users from leaking out and jumping over to this other app, you know, for a use case that we basically can't match.
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I mean, it is magic how the Reels and TikTok algorithms work, and now YouTube with Shorts, that very quickly they do figure out how to put things in front of you that are incredibly engaging just for you. I mean, they call it the For You page.
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Meta
Ooh, all right. I'm curious to hear what you're thinking here. But to catch us up, here's kind of what happened. Until 2015-ish, Facebook could kind of do no wrong, other than all the data privacy issues that they had sort of worked through with the FTC in 2011.
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Meta
Not that I think that was a real possibility anyway, because things were kind of moving so fast, but you never hear them in any of the discussion about who was pursuing Facebook and who was iced out. They just, they had a competitive investment.
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Meta
But they are now increasingly finding themselves in very controversial situations that they are ill prepared for as sort of all of humanity is now joining the network. First of all, content moderation is becoming an issue.
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Meta
Facebook is trying to figure out their role in this. Are they a neutral platform? Do they need to kind of police what is said on their platform? On top of that, actually defining what is allowable speech on their platform is becoming trickier than ever, and it is hard to create one set of rules and abide by them globally.
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And Facebook was just caught flat-footed in a big way by the firehose of questionable content that people would post. Ultimately, they end up throwing huge amounts of people at this, hiring tens of thousands of contractors to deal with content moderation, building out really sophisticated kind of policies and programs and escalation and review processes.
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Meta
They have an ever escalating set of posts, videos and live streams shared around the platform. That's right, because it's not just text anymore.
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Meta
reviewing real-time video, absolutely. And as you would imagine, they are not perfect at this. So they're creating headlines left and right about objectionable things being shared on the network. In building technology that enables everyone around the world to communicate with each other and organize, they also have the flip side of... Anyone can share anything.
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Meta
And if it's engaging enough, there's a ton of eyeballs that see it. So misinformation is starting to become a big deal, too. Ultimately, this comes to a head in the 2016 to 2018 period after they have whittled away a lot of the public's goodwill. And we're just going to zoom in on this moment for the company. The 2016 election happens.
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and a lot of people are looking around for an answer to, wait a minute. Yeah, this isn't the outcome that I expected. What happened? Exactly. There's a lot of people who feel this couldn't have happened on its own, legitimately. You know, somebody did something.
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Meta
And one thing that absolutely did happen is there was a firm called Cambridge Analytica that sold their services to the Trump campaign, and... had a methodology to create psychographic profiles that they believed would work that were derived from a Facebook quiz application.
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Meta
This ends up being an absolute honeypot of a story for anyone who is fired up about a big change to the country that they are not excited about. And so there were basically four stories concurrently happening of how Facebook was involved in the election. One, there was Russian interference.
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Meta
Two, people are spinning up fake news sites, not necessarily for politics, but actually for the ad dollars generated on them. Three, Cambridge Analytica. Four, the Trump campaign may have been really good at using Facebook's digital marketing tools.
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Meta
Yeah, so there's been years of investigation into each. It seems like that last one is actually the biggest lever. Yes, Russians did spin up fake pages and accounts with pretty modest spend. And people absolutely spun up fake news sites and generated fake viral stories for politics and also profit.
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Meta
Cambridge Analytica, yes, it was a thing, but they ended up with actually pretty crappy derivative data from a quiz, not the treasure trove of raw Facebook data on you and your friends that everyone feared. But, David, to your point, really what happened is the Trump 2016 campaign just actually took meta platforms seriously and got really, really good at using the tools.
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Meta
So as you can imagine, I'm preparing for this episode and I'm like, OK, I just heard Mark Zuckerberg say on another podcast, by the way, great interview with Alex Heath at The Verge after MetaConnect about this. He dropped this line. People thought that all this data had been taken and it had been used in this campaign. Yeah. And it turned out the data wasn't.
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Meta
And the data wasn't even accessible to the developer. So David, I'm listening to that. And I stop because I'm thinking, well, that's not what anybody thinks. Because there was a ton of reporting on the fact that they did. So what actually happened here? So here are the chain of events.
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Meta
Back in the 2010s, Facebook built the platform that we talked about that was incredibly permissive in the early days. When you authed your profile against an app, you gave it all of your profile data. And in those earliest days, it could actually see your whole friend list too. Facebook eventually made their API much more closed off, but it took a couple of years to do that.
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Meta
Now, there was a terms of service that required app developers to delete any data they had after a period of time and only use it for very specific purposes. But of course, Facebook couldn't actually guarantee that people were complying with the terms of service. It was just, you know, you are breaching contract. So at some point, a developer made an app that was a quiz.
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Meta
Users could opt into taking that quiz. The quiz asked you questions, and by combining the answers to those questions with the profile data you authenticated from Facebook, that app developer then tried to label you with a pretty basic psychographic profile.
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Meta
And then ultimately, that derivative data, the labels of personality characteristics that were derived from Facebook data and your quiz answers, is what Cambridge Analytica had, as best I could tell. So I read a good amount of the report that the UK government put out about this. The conclusion was that the quiz was taken by 320,000 people.
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Meta
Since those people had access to friends, the total surface area was the public profile data of 87 million Facebook users. They also found that Facebook had requested that Cambridge Analytica delete all the data. both the actual Facebook data and anything derived from the Facebook data back in 2015 before the election even started.
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Meta
So it was, yes, true, an application got access to Facebook data on a lot of users. It is also true that it violated terms of service to use that data for other purposes, and they did not comply with a delete request, or they may not have complied. It's kind of difficult to reconstruct.
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Meta
On top of all this, it supposes that Cambridge Analytica's method of taking these quiz answers and translating them into something that could impact voting worked. Like, it was effective. And that's pretty thin. Right. That's kind of the most thin thing of all of it. Right. So here's what the UK report concluded. And this is in government speak, so it's all very hedged.
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Meta
While the models showed some success in correctly predicting attributes on individuals whose data was used in the training of the model, the real-world accuracy of these predictions... when used on individuals whose data had not been used in the generating of the models, was likely much lower.
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Meta
Through our analysis of internal company communications, the investigation identified there was a degree of skepticism within Cambridge Analytica as to the accuracy or the reliability of the processing being undertaken. There appeared to be concern internally about the external messaging when set against the reality of their processing."
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Meta
So at the end of the day, the Cambridge Analytica thing in particular was kind of a nothing burger. But that is not the story that gets told. The UK regulator was given full access to this and ended up being quite skeptical that the methodology even worked in the first place. So they've got this kind of crappy derivative data, not complying with terms of service requests to delete it.
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Meta
And the method may not actually work. Now, this doesn't exonerate Facebook in any way from what could have happened. They had an incredible treasure trove of data that apps could slurp up in the early 2010s. But the actual narrative of Facebook data that Cambridge Analytica had impacted election results is like wildly oversold.
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Meta
Friendster had real scale and grew really fast. That is something that has kind of been lost to history. Friendster is like the butt of a lot of jokes, but it exploded out of the gates.
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Meta
lived reality of the brand impact on facebook was which that was huge yeah nothing could have been huger to me the story here is there sure was a lot of ill will and discontent with the facebook brand that people were willing to dive in headfirst on it's almost like facebook isn't guilty of whatever the heck people think happened with cambridge analytica all these years later
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Meta
Yeah. And it's not just wrong with the system. They definitely, in behaviors along the way, managed to earn people's distrust. I think that's the issue.
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Meta
Right. And, you know, the answer was they were trying desperately to grow. They were trying to will a platform into existence. Of course, the cultural norms were a little bit more permissive, but, like, the cultural norms were really never permissive to the point to say, sure, you should download and store a big JSON dump of my whole profile information and any pages that I like and...
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Meta
Anybody whose names I'm connected with like that always was probably a little bit of an overstep. But then once developers were able to do that and then violate terms of service and store it forever, then it just kind of becomes this like ticking time bomb that's out there. Exactly.
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Meta
In part, you know, you can see why Facebook massively prefers the ad-based business model of we never even expose any information to you, advertiser. You target and then we just deliver the ads. You never get to know anything about who the users are on our platform. We don't sell data. That is a true fact whenever they stand up there and say, we don't sell data. They don't.
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Meta
They sell the opportunity to target users. But in fact, if they did sell data, it would be a bad thing because someone could then build a competitor. The asset that they have is actually their data that they choose not to sell for business reasons.
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Meta
Yeah. I do think when I search my heart of hearts, though, when I was developing apps in the 2010 period and would let people use Facebook Connect or whatever the current branding of accessing Facebook accounts was at the time, I was always like, whoa, this is a lot of data that comes with someone clicking that button.
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Meta
Yep. I just can't believe it, though. After all these years and all this writing and all these headlines, if Cambridge Analytica were more competent... they probably could have had more impact. But as it stands, I just can't believe there's not a big story on the front page of major newspapers with big headlines saying, actually, Cambridge Analytica didn't really have that much in the first place.
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Meta
Their methodology appears to have not worked. And mea culpa. Sorry for getting y'all all riled up. If you don't want to like Facebook, sure, but go pick a different reason. Okay, so what happened with all this?
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Meta
It is worth knowing, to finish the story earlier from the consent decree in 2011 that said Facebook is going to be carefully monitored for privacy concerns, as you can imagine, the Cambridge Analytica news coming out put a gigantic bullseye on Facebook. And the FTC said, aha, you guys signed a consent decree a mere seven years ago. What the hell? Right.
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Meta
Absolutely. That was wink wink, not a dating site. It was this idea that like there's all these other things that are dedicated to dating. So there's this weird stink about it. But if you just naturally meet a friend of a friend online through a thing that's totally not a dating site, then great. There's no stigma around it.
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Meta
The whole settlement here was not specifically about Cambridge Analytica. There were a bunch of other things that are privacy-related, but the number is $5 billion.
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Meta
And, David, there is one thing that it comes with, and that is a 20-year window that they are monitoring Facebook, and that is exactly matching to the words that Mark gave us on stage that Cambridge Analytica, the way they handled it, was a 20-year mistake.
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Meta
Yep. It is funny. I was thinking, this is a very Facebook-appropriate comment. If we had subtitles for this episode, this one would be, it's complicated. I guess. So great.
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Meta
It really is. It really is. And what it comes down to is I think there is an ethos at Facebook that at many steps along the way, there was an opportunity to grow, to win, to compete. And what mattered was winning. And then when the dust settles, you can kind of look around and say, okay, what was the impact of that? That is one way to run a company.
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Meta
The other way is to be really careful and ask permission. Facebook fell into the first camp, and they probably wouldn't be here today, or certainly at least wouldn't be a global player with 4 billion users today if they hadn't fallen into the first camp. But by falling into that first camp, you have stuff that comes up where you're like, ah, crap, I wish we hadn't done that.
Acquired
Meta
And this is one of them. Right. The time bombs. Totally. Yeah. Okay, so what actually happens? Facebook becomes a lot less valuable after all of this comes out. The company announces in their July 2018 earnings call that they're going to be more focused on user privacy and that revenue may slow as they make this intense focus. They dropped 19% in one day.
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Meta
They wiped out $119 billion in market value, which was the largest single-day loss for any company in history at that time.
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Meta
So this whole privacy issue, the $5 billion settlement, all this stuff that just happens with Meta, it has big ripples for the whole tech industry. There's a phrase that is known on the lips of every American somewhere in the neighborhood of Cambridge Analytica, election interference, fake news, I hate social media, Facebook did this, YouTube did that, blah, blah.
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Meta
And this is a persistent drumbeat that is underneath the whole national discourse. There is an opportunity to be the anti-Facebook here, if you want to be, to be the company that says we are so unbelievably, incredibly about privacy, even more than we ever have been before. David, who does that?
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Meta
Yes. So Apple, a company that I love and adore and was actually wearing an Apple t-shirt earlier today and had to take it off before recording because I felt like it was weird to be wearing my Apple t-shirt when recording the Facebook episode. Apple is a company that has always been incredibly privacy conscious.
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Meta
They both use that as something they believe deeply in their soul and design into their products and is amazing for all of us who use their products to get that privacy and have that trust. They also, to use Ben Thompson's parlance, use it as a strategy credit. There are areas in which it really behooves them because they don't need to do server-side stuff.
Acquired
Meta
They don't need to do advertising because they make a lot of advertising indirectly from Google. And they don't need to do a lot of other things. So they can tout, hey, we're unbelievably secure with your data. We take privacy incredibly seriously. No one takes it more seriously than us. They start really beating this drum, and by 2021, they decide, you know what?
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Meta
In iOS 14.6, we are going to launch a new policy called App Tracking Transparency. Yep, ATT. And what that means is a few years ago, we mandated that anybody who is tracking you across apps start using something called the IDFA. the identifier for advertisers.
Acquired
Meta
Now, in the past, Apple had let you just actually reach in and grab the device's unique identifier, which was pretty cool because as a developer, it was unrelated to advertising. Think of it almost like a serial number of this device. And you could use that for things like, hey, is this the same user across multiple applications?
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Meta
I've got my SDK and my code running in multiple developers' applications, so I can do interesting things like say, hey, this person both takes runs with Strava and they also use Google Maps. And, you know, you can just kind of gather data across apps. Kind of similar to how Facebook was gathering across the web with like buttons everywhere or with Facebook Connect everywhere.
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So Apple stops letting you use the device identifier. They force you into using this IDFA. And then with iOS 14.6 in 2021, they say, hey, if you're using IDFA, part of that API is that now whenever someone launches an app for the first time, it's going to ask them in this really aggressive language to... Are you okay with getting tracked? Or do you want to ask this app not to track?
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Yes. So what actually ends up happening, most people click ask app not to track. A whole lot of Facebook's targeting basically falls apart. They no longer have a picture of you outside of apps that they actually own. And a lot of the reason why advertisers can get so good at targeting is because of this holistic picture that is built for you across your phone.
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David, this is the example kind of manifest in practice of the thing you were talking about all the way at the launch of mobile of what's one of the reasons why Facebook's beautifully constructed business model doesn't work in the mobile walled garden ecosystem. It's because the operating system maker can make a change like this that
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just kind of affects core functionality that you were relying on. And now you don't have access to that data, so you can't run as effective of an advertising service.
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But they did have enough of a relationship where Facebook and Twitter both were privileged citizens on an early version of the iPhone OS. Like in the settings screen, even before you installed any apps, there was like a Facebook and a Twitter settings for, I guess, like native integration between the operating system and those networks.
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Well, they're both like pretty product visionaries and they're both like very stubborn about their views of the future. And they both were very right about their views of the future. I can see it.
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But then when mobile app installs happened and Facebook all of a sudden... Facebook was making billions of dollars off of deciding what apps in the App Store get downloaded. Apple had to have felt like, hey, this is actually... This is our turf. Ours, yeah.
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Yeah, you end up with Apple feeling like... Everything that happens on our platforms is ours. And these are our users to protect. And no one's going to do wrong by our users in any way. So you have Apple, who is protective as all hell. And then you have Facebook, where Mark Zuckerberg, more than anything in the world, wants as much freedom to operate as possible.
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And you have Apple trying to constrain. And you have Mark, who hates feeling held captive. Yep.
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So what ends up happening? Actually, the first couple of quarters, not much. Facebook's talking about it on earnings calls. Hey, we think this is going to have impact. It's not huge. But then February 2022, which is technically the end of year 2021 earnings call for Meta, they drop the bomb.
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Interestingly, in question and answer, I listened to the whole earnings call and the CFO kind of casually says in a response to someone, oh, we think that the impact from ATT to our ad business will end up costing us on the order of $10 billion for 2022. What? That is eye-popping. Like, uh, okay. So what ends up happening is there's a 26% drawdown in a single day. Ha ha.
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The market cap went from $900 billion to $700 billion. The actual number is they lost $232 billion in market cap, the new largest in history, surpassing their previous record. Also... On this call, they announced their first ever quarter over quarter user decline.
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Keep in mind, what's happening is on top of meta basically saturating most of the internet connected world by this point, TikTok is also really, really peaking. So you've had some marginal users kind of using the app less because they're moving to TikTok.
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And Facebook is reacting to TikTok and trying to put reels in, so they're cannibalizing their own revenue by encouraging people to watch these short-form AI-recommended videos that actually don't yet monetize as well as the newsfeed. There's kind of three fronts that are destroying them here. There's ATT, there's TikTok competition, and they're making...
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revenue cannibalizing changes in their own app so the hit continues it traded all the way down 46 by april 27th and then ultimately it bottomed on halloween that year so this is what eight months later with a 72 drawdown they lost 72 of their value between february and halloween
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It's totally insane. The interesting thing is, at this time, the real threat wasn't actually ATT. The biggest of those three threats was TikTok stealing users. Yes. The whole ATT thing is about how much money can we make off of an ad because it is so well targeted. That's an optimization. That is useless if you do not have users to advertise to in the first place. Yes.
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So the actual real existential threat is TikTok. And Ben Thompson makes this really great point. And I know I've quoted Ben over and over this episode, but I think he's just been so astute on Facebook at many points throughout history. This decision to make these product changes to respond to the TikTok threat in the face of ATT to do these at the same time is a founder-led decision.
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If you had a professional CEO, the correct thing to do to preserve your job and shareholder value is to wait six, 12 months before you start reacting to TikTok to let the whole ATT thing blow over. Mark's like, I can't get fired. I think the right thing to do is react to TikTok now because... Every day, this problem compounds and gets absolutely worse.
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I don't care that there's this horrible narrative going on right now with AT&T that is going to cause us apparently to lose $10 billion of revenue we otherwise would have gotten this year. We must cannibalize revenue in addition to that to make these product changes.
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What it ends up with is a 72% drawdown, and what it also ends up with is the chance for it to 5x from there, which is what has happened. The company saved itself by acting correctly in this And they had to go through this wild, tumultuous two-year journey in the process.
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Yep. And what ended up actually happening from ATT, it's been value destructive overall because I don't think the amount of money that has shifted away from Facebook has been captured by Apple.
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I get the sense that the app install business for the app store, those search ads is going great, but it's not like equivalent to what the monetization over at Meta is on app install ads or was on app install ads. Yeah.
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Not to mention this kneecapped meta on a lot of platforms ads that are not app install ads this kneecapped a lot of the like we have a friend that's in the retail business who was saying that their ads doubled in price in 2022 when this happened and they were sort of scratching their head and they have nothing to do with the app store so
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All that kind of happened is that entrepreneur said, I guess I'm going to keep advertising on Facebook as a platform. I hope it gets better. I'll pick some other platforms. But I can't advertise with Apple. There's nothing for me to do. It's a retail good. It's a physical item. So I guess I'll just pay more money to acquire customers now.
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And while we will, of course, discuss these events as part of our story and analysis, Our goal today on this podcast episode is really to understand how it is that Meta became the dominant fabric that connects the human race and why they've been so successful at continuing to win over and over again.
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It ends up actually hurting the business when go-to-market channels get less efficient, unless you can sort of shift that spend to a place where your customer is also hanging out.
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In practice, meta's fine. When a shift like this happens, the most scale player with the most engineers and the most data, turns out they're still the winner.
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Meta launched this thing called Advantage Plus, and now if you're an advertiser, they use a whole bunch of other data signals, and you still have a customer acquisition budget, you're going to spend it, you're probably going to go spend it on meta the same way you were before, and it's just not quite as efficient as it was. Oh, and by the way, anyone else that got hurt from the
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All right, so what happened here? Way back in, call it 2012, Facebook starts getting interested around the same time that they're starting FAIR for AI in what is the platform of the future. They start doing some hardware prototyping on their own.
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They're not really set up for that yet, but they do want to do the same sort of approach that they did with AI, which is focused research, not general research. Pick a particular thing where we have an opinion about something we think is going to be the future and then invest deeply in it. So a crazy thing happened.
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In February of 2014, they opened up the purse strings and paid $19 billion for WhatsApp. They had so much conviction that the future was AR and VR that 34 days later, they paid another $2 billion for Oculus. I had no recollection that these things were a month apart.
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It's wild. I think Mark got the demo of Oculus and was just like, oh, this has the most credible potential to be the future out of anything that I've ever tried. So, yes.
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So you and I have both tried Orion. It is unbelievable, fantastic research. very clearly a path to the next generation of computing device. I don't know if this is going to be the winning company. I don't know if that's going to be the exact winning device.
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But never have I been so sure that a mainframe very far away from me to converting to a PC, which lives three feet from me, converting to a phone that lives an arm's length from me, the next logical step is glasses that live on my face. And that used to sound ridiculous. And then you and I tried Orion. And now I'm like, oh, yep.
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That is going to replace or augment my phone in whenever these things are commercially available and consumer-grade. I'm glad we waited to do this episode because I think I would have had a pretty different take having only tried VR headsets and Vision Pro and big goggly things over the years.
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I think I would have been unconvinced, frankly, because I didn't think it was possible to put something in that small of a form factor. So that is the current product experience that you and I have recently had. Now let's look at the business strategy and the financials of how we have gotten here and why. So there are two ways to look at Reality Labs.
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The first way is to answer the question, what would have to be true about the business to be great on its own and justify all this investment?
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Yes. So based on their spend already, since they started reporting Reality Labs as a separate segment in 2019, they've spent right around $60 billion. That is in operating losses for the segment.
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I don't think it does. With that level of investment, it already needs to be essentially the most successful and profitable consumer product in history to pay itself back. That is the only possible outcome here where we even get our money back. I know this sounds wild, but, like, that is the bet. No other outcomes are acceptable.
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Fortunately, if we want to model this out, we know the financials of a product like that, the most successful and profitable consumer product in history, the iPhone. So as a thought experiment, what if Meta managed to launch such a product, say the Orion glasses tomorrow, and say that such a product grew at the exact same rate and with the exact same profit stream as the iPhone?
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Well, I did that napkin math, and if 2024, this year, was Apple's 2007, so you just take all the iPhone's cash flows and you start the clock right now, Meta's cumulative cash flows from Reality Labs would be net negative until at least 2035. Okay, okay.
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You would get back to break even on your investment 11 years from now if starting tomorrow they manage to create the most profitable and widely adopted product in human history. Which obviously is not happening tomorrow.
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That also assumes generously that Meta could build a services business attached to it the size of Apple's services business, which probably generates right around an equal amount of profit. So basically, take all the profits from iPhone and double it. that's actually what you would need. It's actually fair to attach a similar size services business.
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That is the bet. Let's just be super clear. Anything else is a complete incineration of cash.
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The second way is actually kind of financial too. I think there's probably a third more emotional way. The second way, though, is if you're Mark and you constantly live under the thumb of platform control, you'd do almost anything to get out of it. And that's not irrational. I mean, Apple made a $10 billion dent in their revenue just two years ago with AT&T.
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And I mean, they could, I don't think they would, but they could at any given moment just pull you out of the app store and you'd have little recourse. That is a existential business risk. And it's an unlikely one, but every day you could wake up and all of your access to all Apple customers could be over. Which, by the way, we haven't talked about it, but Google could do the same thing.
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Google could totally do the same thing. They have the right to distribute or not distribute anyone's app in their store at any given time. Look at Apple and Epic with Fortnite. Totally. So there is actually an expected value calculation you can run, which is my entire company's market cap times the likelihood that it could happen.
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Which, you know, it's extremely low likelihood, but because the market cap is $1.5 trillion, the expected value is still a very big number. So then... If you're thinking this way, what is a reasonable percent of your market cap to invest every year in a hedge that might, might get you out from under the thumb of big tech platforms?
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And at Meta being worth $1.5 trillion, if they're spending $15, $20 billion a year on Reality Labs losses, that's a little over 1%. Right. Is that worth it? If you truly believe that this is... the most effective way to offset your most existential risk in the next two decades? Hell yeah, it is.
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And he's done like 10. I mean, this is something that, again, is kind of lost to history. People talk about, oh, there's the one FaceMash thing that he did that led to Facebook. He did like 10 side projects. I mean, I remember being in this era of my life where you feel like you have superpowers as a programmer and you're looking around and you're like, oh, I can make a website for that.
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Now, am I certain that this is the best way to hedge that risk? No, I don't know. And like, is there a huge amount of execution risk along the way?
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But it's a 1% tax on your, I mean, it's generous to frame it off of market cap. You probably should frame it off of revenue, but still a 1% tax off of your entire enterprise value every year. Meh.
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And to underscore your point, David, just a few weeks before we recorded this episode, Meta held a multi-hour keynote at Connect in September 2024. And of those multiple hours, zero minutes were dedicated to their core products of social media apps. their $100 billion business of selling advertisements on these social media products. So at least with developers, it's not about any of that at all.
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Literally the entire keynote. Yeah, I did. It was great. It's Meta AI. It's the Lama models underneath it. It's the open source strategy. It's developers building for the quest. It's announcing new products like the next iteration of the Ray-Ban Meta Glasses. It's revealing Orion. Zero minutes! to their current products or business. And they're one of the biggest businesses in the world.
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Yeah, wild, right? They are all about this platform future. So here we are trying to make the case of like, they did it. They decided they were an ads business and they built one of the two greatest advertising systems ever known to man and one of the most amazing business models ever.
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I can make a website for that. I had the same thing where the world wasn't saturated with apps yet. And so you could just like make things that made your life better or other people's lives better or cool ways to connect people. And I distinctly remember feeling like, how come nobody else realizes you can just do this? I know what that sort of feels like, and I know that mentality he was in.
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I would never have guessed that in this year you could fit that into glasses. Glasses and a wireless puck. Totally. Yeah, listeners, we never shared our impressions on this. It is wildly compelling. And if you asked Mark, he probably would frame this whole thing differently than we have. It's not about this hedge. And he would say some things about platform control.
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But I think for him, it is just this general belief that we want to make awesome products. And I believe there's an awesome product to be made here. And I'm going to assemble the best people I can to go work on it. And I think that's the most interesting duality of this company is... It's both.
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It's what is the best strategic move to make to marshal my resources and a much more touchy feely like I want to make products that are great and bring people closer together because that's the mission of the company.
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We should. All right. So we will catch you up on the business today just to put some numbers to all of this, and then we will move into analysis. So as of the end of reporting last quarter, there are 3.3 billion daily active people across the whole family of apps. Wow. Okay. Astonishing. That's up 7% year over year. The family of apps revenue per person is about $12.
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The end of year stats from last year, when you just look at the Facebook app, not the whole family of apps, the daily active users are 2.1 billion. So of those 3.3 billion daily active people across all the apps, 2.1 billion are on Facebook. And the monthly number of Facebook is 3.1 billion monthly active users. So 2.1 daily, 3.1 monthly. Wow.
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WhatsApp and Instagram are in the neighborhood of 2 billion monthly active users. WhatsApp has 100 million now in the U.S., which this is sort of a big narrative violation that WhatsApp will never catch on in the U.S., and iMessage is dominant, and even after that, it's, you know, text message. This is crazy. 100 million people a month in the U.S. use WhatsApp now.
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I mean, it's been a slow burn over time, growing and growing and growing. But to me, that kind of came out of nowhere. The other narrative violation here, there actually is a lot of growth among young adults using the Facebook app itself in the U.S. I think a lot of people think that's a sort of boomer thing.
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Which is crazy because you don't use any other form of social media besides like posting on Twitter for acquired, right? Correct. They've announced that Meta AI is on track to be the most used AI assistant by the end of the year. It's worth disambiguating Meta AI from Lama. Lama is the name of their family of open source models.
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Those models do power Meta AI, but Meta AI itself is a branded technology. That's a 35% operating margin. Worth knowing, just like all tech companies, they have become CapEx heavy the last few years. They now, last year, spent $28 billion in CapEx, which you should mostly read as data centers. They operate a... hyperscaler-sized data center footprint, give or take.
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You think AWS, Azure, Microsoft, and Google Cloud. Meta is the fourth one. They just don't sell it to anyone else. It's only consumed by internal teams. So huge amounts of investment in AI hardware and just other data center expansion. The balance sheet is Fortress. They have $50 billion in cash and $58 billion including cash equivalents and marketable securities.
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They have 71,000 employees and their market cap is $1.5 trillion, up from $230 billion in just October of 22. Wow. Incredible. Totally incredible. So two really insane observations about the state of the company today. All of their products seem to increase user engagement over time. And all of these products have different use cases. And it happens across geographies.
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There is something in the water at this company. Why is it that WhatsApp and Instagram are both increasing in user engagement over time? It's the growth function. I mean, it's this like purpose-built, heat-seeking missile of attention and metrics that the company pays attention to where across a whole broad product suite, engagement increases.
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The second insane thing, at IPO, the U.S. and Canada market had an average revenue per user of $11. That number is now $227. Wow. Yeah. And globally, that average revenue per user when you include all the emerging markets and less valuable markets for them is $44. So they really, really monetize now. So how much of the world does meta really have left? to kind of put a bookend on this.
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So according to the UN, last year, there were 5.4 billion people online. This includes China. Right. So they're basically saying two-thirds of humans are online.
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Yes. Meta has 4 billion monthly active people across the family of apps. China alone is 1.4 billion. And while this isn't like totally exact, I think you just apply the same multiple to China and say, well, two thirds of humans are online, two thirds of China is online. So that means that there's 940 million people online in China.
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Yeah. But let's be conservative. That leaves about 450 million people, or 6% of the human population, who have access to the internet but are not yet meta-monthly actives. That doesn't mean they're not Meta users. That just means they weren't monthly active users as of the end of the last reporting period. So Meta's addressable users who aren't yet users is less than 6% of humans.
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Right, and across all products. And so once you frame it this way and you're like, huh, there's only 6% of the population left either through reactivation or signing up that they could get, you sort of understand why they put so much effort
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behind emerging markets, behind doing things like zero rating, doing custom deals with telcos, rolling out fiber, bringing countries online for the first time, even when they have no near-term monetization potential. Internet.org was the name of their initiative for a long time around this to basically say, look, we are saturating humans.
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Yep. Okay. So in the analysis, the first thing we're going to do is power and then playbook. So we are going to do a seven powers analysis of what enables meta to achieve persistent differential returns or, you know, to put it another way, to be more profitable than their closest competitor and do so sustainably. This is interesting. Who is their closest competitor?
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I think that's probably worth defining first and foremost. Ultimately, they are in the business of selling advertising. So I think their closest competitor is Google.
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But like, who do they compete against for the same profits or the same potential profits?
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Yeah, you're right. I suppose it's other places people spend time. Yeah, it's where people spend their time.
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Right. And I think really what has to happen here is an analysis of each set of stakeholders individually. Like you almost kind of want to do a seven powers analysis on the user side also of why would someone pick a meta product over a snap product?
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And even though they're not voting with dollars, it's almost like their attention is a proxy for dollars because you just assume that those companies should do a comparable job monetizing the attention.
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But what makes sense, I think, is to just walk through each of them. So counter-positioning, they probably don't have much counter-positioning in the current state of meta and hold on AI for the moment. In their startup days... They did a lot of counter-positioning against other global social networks.
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By being a college-only authenticated social network, they were accepting lower growth, they were accepting a capped ceiling of number of users, and they were doing that because they wanted to make the trade that they felt, you know, a closed community is more important.
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Think about on the tooling side. Think about the experience of being an engineer at Meta and the thousand engineer years of work that comes out of that company every year on making the developer experience of working there better. I mean, it's crazy with the revenue scale that they have, how much they can amortize these fixed costs. Everything at this company is scale economies. Yeah.
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I was literally texting my friend yesterday who was at Harvard at this time. And she said, oh yeah, people totally chose their classes based on who was in them.
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Yep. Now, fortunately, in the land of creators, you don't actually need to switch. It's just an and, you know, it's not like you're ripping out one vendor and putting another vendor in. I do have a sunk cost in building a following on a given platform, but that doesn't actually prevent me from also launching on another platform if you have the time to kind of do that. Yep.
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I think there might actually be process power. Normally there's not, but I keep kind of going back to this like there's something in the water. Their products grow in engagement over time. Their growth team does 10,000 little things to open up every step of the funnel as wide as it can be and make the most frictionless fluid experience for users. Interesting, yeah.
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You know, for a while, they had legitimate process power in how they shipped. I mean, Statsig has started on the premise of this. It blew my mind when someone from Facebook came and gave a talk at Microsoft in 2014 on how they ship product and how it rolls out.
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And not only the feature-flagging elements of it, but they can sort of like watch performance, auto-roll things back if they're causing negative performance metrics, how like...
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There's just deployed code all the time with a whole bunch of experiments turned off, how there's these experiments that are running in different ways in different markets, and they can statistically significantly disentangle which results are from which experiment when they have multiple experiments that are concurrently running with the same user base.
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I think OpenAI kind of does. I think OpenAI has so much former Facebook DNA and kind of thinks the same way that I think they do a lot of this sort of thing too.
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Yeah. Branding. Branding is such an interesting one. I mean, can they have negative brand power?
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It's literally just lists of people. You click on a class name and people would spend a lot of time just combing over that list of people.
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There's no love for the brand Meta. There's no love for the brand Facebook. There is love for the brand Instagram.
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Yeah. There's like reliability with it all. Like I feel pretty, I mean, there's branding that comes with being any big company that you're sort of like large and trusted and institutional. Yeah.
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And then cornered resource, unless you're going to call Mark one, which always feels a little bit too cute to name the founder.
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And trying to have the relationships with the public policy people in 200 countries to understand what is acceptable speech in each of those countries.
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okay so in looking at this why does meta do 47 billion dollars a year in operating income and why do we all believe that's going to continue for a while like what actually is the defensibility here is it the network economies because they're so tautological that i mean i would argue it's not that because what we've seen is tick tock showed us there's a way without initial strong network effects to go capture people's attention and thus eventually the ad dollars
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Yeah. If this were five years ago, I would have been like, why even talk about the rest? Network economies. Once you have the network, then the rest doesn't matter. That's just not true anymore.
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Right. And most people do use both. And sometimes they even use different apps for it. But it's two different modes of let me, it may be the same session on the couch, but you do need both use cases of show me who the people that I intentionally follow, what they're doing, and then show me entertaining things.
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So part of their business is defensible from the network economies. But the other part, honestly, it kind of feels like habit.
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Okay. So let's talk about what Meta is doing with AI. And that will lead us into our first playbook theme. Because we've talked about so far the beginning of FAIR, them starting all this AI research, the early 2014 on use of feed recommenders and the AI for the ad matching system. But... There's a lot going on with Facebook and AI right now that we really haven't talked about.
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So there are two words for you to know. One is LAMA, and this is the family of foundational models that Meta has developed. And these are competitive with OpenAI and Anthropics Cloud and Google Gemini, etc., Yeah. And then there's Meta AI.
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And Meta AI is a consumer brand that is the way that you interact with Meta's self-hosted version of Lama, or maybe give it a little bit more credence than that. It is an application that Meta has that uses Lama in the background, but provides Meta-specific AI experiences, some of them bundled into apps like in WhatsApp chat or in Instagram.
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Yeah, but also there's a Meta AI website that you can go to and interact with it directly. But Lama is the models themselves. Meta AI is the consumer product. And Lama, they have spent billions and billions of dollars, huge amounts of R&D, huge GPU clusters to train, big data centers. Interestingly, it is all open source. Mark makes a big deal about this. Yes.
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No matter what you think of the company, it is undeniably one of the most important institutions in the world. And their global scale is no accident. It is the result of careful actions from some of the most motivated and brilliant people in the world who believe in one mission, connecting as many people as possible.
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It's interesting to sort of think about why. It's not open source in the same way, really, that, oh, Linux is open source and this is the free standard that everybody uses and there's just sort of a foundation behind it all. Meta is putting huge amounts of capex and opex, like huge amount of dollars into willing Lama into existence.
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It's very different than these sort of cheap grassroots open source projects of the past.
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Yes. And so why are they doing this? Well, if you ask Mark why they have an AI model at all, and I'm quoting from a great blog post that he put out about this, we must ensure that we always have access to the best technology and that we're not locking into a competitor's closed ecosystem where they restrict what we build. Okay, I understand that.
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You believe that the most important thing is to control the key technologies that make your products possible. Okay, that last bit is important. Basically, what Mark is saying here is we're going to spend a lot of money training these foundational models, but unlike all of the competitors in the AI space, we actually don't have a business model around making money on this.
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So we're going to spend all the money. We're going to give it away free. Why does that make sense?
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Yes. So for anybody who's not familiar, Facebook made this move in the early 2010s where they realized they were spending tons and tons of money on their data center infrastructure. And the vendors who they were paying, these integration partners and the server companies and the networking companies, were making fat margins. And they were thinking, this is dumb. We're a really big customer.
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Why is everybody else making so much money on us? And they looked around and they saw all these other big data center companies and they're like, geez, all those people are paying big margins too. What if we just publish the specs for the billions of dollars of work that we have done to...
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make our data centers and then we start this thing called the open compute project and we just get a bunch of other people to adopt it too well suddenly then the open compute project is this standard by which all the hardware manufacturers and integrators actually have to snap to because all the customers are saying this is what we want and it's a pretty genius way to drive margins down for these suppliers.
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Yes. So what they basically learned from this is, oh, we open sourced this thing. A lot of our costs went down because the whole ecosystem started using the thing that we open sourced. So even though we're not making money, you know, they're not a cloud company. They're not selling access to their data centers to anyone. Right.
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It pays back in the form of saving them money. It can do the same thing in AI. They publish a really expensive open source foundational model that is in the conversation to be as good as these other closed source ones. Well, now there's a lot of developers out there who are just going to build on the open source free one.
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It kind of becomes something that the community can build on and improve and make better. As Mark said in our conversation with us on stage, there's a lot more smart people outside your company than inside it. But effectively what it does is it puts pricing pressure on the AI model companies.
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To the extent that Mark views it as a super important key ingredient to the product experiences he wants to build in the future, it's super bad if there's a few closed source providers who can provide that experience and they A, lock him into controlling, here's what you can build, here's what you can't build. But B, take his margin.
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Basically say it's really expensive every time you want to make a call to one of our proprietary services. When you think about it, it's actually a form of operating leverage, where he's basically saying there's a big fixed cost I am willing to bear in order to bootstrap this ecosystem and commoditize all of these complements, commoditize all of these other closed-source AI models.
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And in exchange, what I'm going to get for that is just pricing pressure on all of them so that in the future, my variable costs... are lower. I just get to keep more of the dollars that we bring in rather than having to pay them out to proprietary model providers in the future. It's a pretty novel business strategy. Yeah, totally. So I said, commoditize your compliments.
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This notion was dreamed up and named by Joel Spolsky in 2002. There's a great blog post about it. And he makes this analogy. Think about cars and gasoline. These are compliments. When sales increase in one, sales increases in the other. You have a car, you need gasoline. Well, AI models end up being a complement to Meta's products.
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In order for them to build Meta AI or even the feed recommendation stuff we talked about, they need best-in-class AI models. And just because cars increase the sales of gasoline, that doesn't tell you about how profitable an automaker gets to be versus a gasoline maker. So imagine the automaker decided that...
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Meta
They want to get into the gas business so that their customers could have access to low-cost gasoline. Or even further, let's say the automaker decided to make low-cost gasoline just to drive all the other gasoline prices down.
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Well, if gas is cheaper and you're the automaker, you can actually charge more for cars since consumer willingness to pay is around the total cost of ownership, not about a car or gasoline specifically.
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Or an advertiser is not going to pay you more or less depending on how much you have to pay the AI model provider. They're going to pay you an amount. And if you want to maximize the amount of that you get to keep, it behooves you for you to not have to pay as much money to AI model providers. Yes.
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Okay, so how does this apply to Playbook? Well, Meta seems to like taking all the risk in situations like this, putting lots of dollars in so they can take more of the reward. You could imagine a more moderate company saying, oh, well, there's going to be lots of AI vendors out there, and we could just let them take care of that as their core competency, and we'll just buy off the shelf from them.
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But that's not how Meta works. especially with everything they've been through with Apple. They have gotten true religion and I think always kind of wanted to be in this position and they just have the capital to do it now.
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They will control the key technologies that matter to them, both for getting to own and dictate product roadmaps and products decisions, but also for the financial upside of making sure that they control their own destiny and no one in the ecosystem has extreme leverage over them.
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It makes anything you're doing feel, you know, twice as important and twice as revolutionary. And it just felt very apt for this episode.
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Yep, totally. So my first big playbook theme is Meta discovers, commoditize your compliment and is now looking for ways to use it everywhere.
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Totally. Mark is a master at maximizing his degrees of freedom and setting up the board such that in an uncertain future, there are multiple paths to victory no matter how the world unfolds.
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which is unbelievably Gatesian. I feel like we said the exact same line about Bill Gates in our Microsoft episodes. The real comp for this company is Microsoft. I think that's right. That was actually my next one. They do iterative product development. They put the first version out just to kind of get feedback and see how they need to rev it and get better for the future.
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The early days are characterized by hiring all the smartest people and prioritizing IQ over everything else, commoditizing your compliment, obsession with building a platform that other developers build on top of, this whole thing about multiple bets in an uncertain future. I mean, it's funny that just look at they were building Messenger internally. They bought WhatsApp.
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I bet they're glad that they had that dual-pronged strategy. They were developing an app called Photos at the same time that they bought Instagram. That's what they do. It's Gatesian.
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And the most interesting thing that I think is like hit me in the face like a ton of bricks, Zuck after all the 2016 election fallout and the shift in public perception and having to do all this testifying is like watching an alternate future for Microsoft where Bill Gates had decided to stay at the helm instead of leaving after the DOJ case.
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It is amazing. He lays it out right there. We don't have to speculate on it. It is explicitly stated. In the same vein, it is painfully obvious when you look at this company that companies are just founders extended. The culture of this company is just Mark, and it's a huge lever for Mark to act. This has been true over and over again. Microsoft, Nvidia, Nike.
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I mean, I went to college in the fall of 2007, and so you could look up people's email addresses. If you had their first and last name, you might be able to get some other, maybe major, but it was a text blob. It wasn't a photo.
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It's just how great companies are in the world. It's very hard for me to point to a truly great company where the DNA isn't like a lever on the founder's personality.
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And there's got to be a lot of companies out there that like we're looking at the success case.
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Right. As we talk to people, here are the traits that we heard over and over again. Mark is a genius, a really good listener, a fast learner. He goes from knowing zero to mastery in months or years. He has low ego about being right. That's not to say that he has a low ego, but he has a low ego about being right. He is obsessed with finding truth and open to being wrong. He's intensely competitive.
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He's relentless. He's actually a very good product designer and understanding the computer architecture that will be required to accomplish such a product experience at scale. I mean, all of these things, like if you have these characteristics. and you're then empowered to singularly control the company at massive scale, yeah, it's going to go well.
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Meta
Right. This is my regular reminder that in studying these episodes with extreme survivorship bias, we are looking at the most extreme outliers who, in every dimension you can multiply by, they're at the edge of the distribution. Mark is, I don't know, six or seven standard deviations from the mean human across the important traits that mattered to making Facebook.
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Oh, and by the way, with the right timing and the right luck and the right circumstance and the right know-how, My biggest lesson from doing Unacquired is these things are unrecreatable.
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Durable executive team. It's kind of shocking how many of the people that are Mark's direct reports and their directs have just been there for a really long time. This team knows how to work together.
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Meta
Yeah, that's interesting. Okay, that brings me to this next one, which is something we talked a little bit about with Mark on stage. And I'm curious to hear your answer to this now that we've had all this time and space to think about it.
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Here are all the battles where Meta has either won by buying the company, won by beating the company, won by copying, or gotten to some kind of sustainable stalemate. MySpace and Friendster, Google+, Twitter, Instagram, WhatsApp. We didn't talk about this one, but Meerkat and Periscope. Oh, yeah. They launched Facebook Live when that was supposed to be the next big thing. Yep.
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And I think they are open to being whatever they need to be to make that happen. I think Meta might look extremely different 20 years from now than it is today, almost like unrecognizably, because this company moves like water in response to whatever the new shape of the world is.
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Meta
Yeah. I mean, it really is this idea. Meta is a technology company through and through, and then they leverage that technology to be whatever the hell they need to be to adapt to the new world.
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Totally, because these are all different strengths. Like, they aren't afraid of copying. Okay, that is a strength. But that's also a completely different thing than I'm going to place bets on what I think is going to be the big technology wave of the future and spend tens of billions of dollars on that. That's a different way of winning.
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Or, in some cases, I'm going to try to leverage my existing network effect to make sure I adopt someone else's social mechanic. Okay, that worked in a handful of these scenarios, but That's not at all what works in others.
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Right, right. This company moves like water and product is an act of discovery there. I'm convinced it's not pure invention. You asked Mark that on stage. And there's some stuff they have to invent. Like Orion, you have to invent. But software where you can ship and quickly respond to user feedback and iterate, it's like they're chiseling away at the marble to find David.
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I don't think they have David in mind when they're starting. Most of the time. There are a few moments where they did. Newsfeed is completely one of them. Inventing the social feed is a completely distinct and brand new thing that Meta created. It's actually one of the few. Yeah.
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When I was a little bit more bearish on the future of Reality Labs, I was trying to come up with, has Meta ever successfully created something new that has become a profit center for them that is like not adopted from someone else?
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And newsfeed. Yep. But it's like kind of funny that we're naming those things as... Platform, as short-lived as it was. No, that was a, we wish we had an operating system, but we don't. So let's see if we can convince people that this is a sufficient platform.
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Maybe there was going to be a social platform in this new era. Maybe that was an operating system of sorts or on par with operating systems to be able to create a platform on top of.
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And maybe all companies do. And, you know, there's not something distinct to meta here and everybody learns from each other. And that's fine, too. But that was something that I was racking my head on thinking through. In fact, there's even a testimony. This is kind of funny. In the Mark Zuckerberg versus the Winklevoss case from way, way, way back when.
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Mark even makes some comment about, well, actually the idea for Facebook wasn't even new because MySpace and Friendster existed. So it's like this interesting positioning of the whole thing itself is actually a borrowed idea, which of course served him well in that particular case.
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All right, so these are photos stored digitally that Mark then, while plugged into the campus network from his dorm room, is... accessing, downloading, and then putting up on his own website that he is hosting.
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But the point sort of stands is like so much of this is borrowed and we just live in a world, especially in social, where you do kind of have to just, maybe this is media as a whole, observe what the new format is and adopt it as quickly as possible.
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So speaking of trying things, I just wanted to take a moment to honor all the failures. I kept a running list as I was doing my research on products that either died or just didn't live up to the hype. Facebook Live, Facebook Watch, the drone, the solar-powered drone that they developed to provide internet access. Oh, yeah, that's right. That was like a whole big thing for a while.
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Yeah, that's right. Mark was actually two for three on, he was forecasting like in 2015, what are we going to be focused on 10 years from now? That was one of them. But the other two were augmented reality and AI. It was kind of an impressive call. Portal, Portal TV, Workplace, which as far as I can tell, Facebook is the only company in the world that actually uses Workplace.
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No other enterprise has ever adopted it. I'm sure that's not like exactly true, but that feels approximately true. Facebook deals, which was their Groupon clone. Oh, that's right. Think about how nimble Facebook is that they're like, ooh, uh-oh, this social deals thing seems to be gaining traction. Maybe that's a core part of the platform that needs to be a piece of this in the future.
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I mean, they just had zillions of these. Facebook gifts. Do you remember gifting and you could use Facebook credits to pay for them? Facebook credits. I mean, on top of Facebook credits, Libra.
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They invented a whole new cryptocurrency and a big consortium around it and a huge set of investors and other Fortune 500s. Originally, Facebook Messages was going to be a Gmail killer. You could email people into Facebook Messages and use that as an email suite.
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facebook places when i mean foursquare was almost on par for a period of time with instagram and twitter as plausibly the next social mechanic checking in places and facebook places was a real effort hey now it just turns into tagging locations on posts but like a first class post in newsfeed for a while was a check-in on facebook places
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And then there's all the independent apps. Lasso, Poke, Slingshot, Photos, Hello, Facebook Gaming, Lifestage, Moments, Notify, Facebook Watch, Moves, all the things they acquired, TBH, Beluga, they launched IGTV. This company tries everything. They move like water to discover what they need to be through an ever-changing environment.
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Okay, so then we've touched on this one a bunch, but I kind of want to put a pin in it. Why has Facebook always been in a precarious position? Why do they need to keep fighting these existential battles? Why are they so obsessed with building a platform?
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I think the answer is they want to be as durable as a company that makes hardware with an operating system that all the users use and all the developers have to target because all the users are there. I think that's what they really want.
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But because they've never had quite that much defensibility, you know, like, oh, a network effect is good, but it's not as good as that incredible platform durability. They're always trying to expand and be more. Every time they bump up against someone else, it kind of creates a problem for them.
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And so I'm using a bunch of weird metaphors here, but it just seems like the place that they occupy in the technology stack is just not quite privileged enough for to do the things that they want to do. And so they're always at the whim of someone else knocking them around.
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Meta
Yeah, part two in 10 years. Yeah, right. And then as we drift to a close here, the engineering culture and being a technology company at their core has been essential, right? Early on, they really did manage to hire only A+, and then stay A+, after that. Forever and ever and ever, it was just this badge of honor, if you were an engineer at Facebook, for product design, too.
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I mean, they just had such a great talent density. The set of things that they did on the technical side were over and over again a way to have their cake and eat it too. If you can move faster, you can learn more through your multiple iterations. And so speed of... Development comes from having great tools. One very great, shiny example of this is something called Hip Hop for PHP.
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I know this is very esoteric, but in the late 2000s, they had this crazy idea that what we should do instead of switching to C or C++ or Java... we want our engineers to keep writing PHP.
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Meta
So they wrote a compiler to C. So they didn't have to take the performance hit from running PHP, which was an interpreted language, but it also solved this scalability problem because then they didn't need to go hire all these systems-level programmers.
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Meta
They could hire web developers who wanted to move with that pace and flexibility while also having the infrastructure to run these massive systems and scale really efficiently. And then that solved the scaling and performance problem.
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Meta
But again, in 2014, they realized, oh, crap, we're big enough and we now have enough sensitive data that we really should switch to a statically typed language like Java or C Sharp. But again, they didn't want to force their engineers to learn that. People who code in those languages have a different culture than existed at Facebook, too. They couldn't really recruit people.
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Meta
So they invented a new language called Hack that was very similar to PHP but had static typing. Over and over again, I mean, Tau was another example of this NoSQL database. They just keep finding ways where they like invent new technology to solve a problem that probably only exists for them.
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Meta
And then they create this like whole boutique system that allows A, having world-class talent, B, to have a ton of them, C, everyone gets to move fast, but then D, it's all unbelievably performant and efficient and they just don't have to make trade-offs. It is wild.
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Meta
Oh, so maybe he didn't actually rehost the images. Maybe he was just pointing at the URLs that were hosted by Kirkland House. Oh, I didn't think about that.
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Meta
Okay, then my second technical one in addition to this is they are their own customer. We've talked about this. They're a AWS scale technology company, but they don't take outside customers, so they only have to build for their own internal use cases. Now, this sounds great, but it actually does have these big trade-offs. You can't dramatically change what your infrastructure is used for.
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Meta
It is purpose-built. But it does let you be incredibly efficient and have high performance if you have good communication between the customer, sort of the app team or the back-end service, and the designers of that data center. This is completely the opposite of Amazon. Amazon uses interface so teams don't have to talk to each other. At Meta, they require incredibly tight communication.
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Meta
It's a very different organizational philosophy where they're like, no, no, no. Not only do we not have external customers, we want this insane type coupling between our infrastructure and our internal customers. Anyway, my last one, this is a company that grows intentionally. It would be easy to look at this company and say, wow, what a viral product. What a universally applicable product.
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Meta
That is not the case. It is unnatural to have connected four billion humans. This is a freak of nature. This is not just something that people adopted. And so while I think it is totally fair to say, wow, it just like blew up at Harvard. Facebook is the story of 50 different growth tactics in different eras all carefully constructed and iterated upon.
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Meta
figuring out when they needed to acquire versus build, carefully split testing every change, aligning the whole company on specific networks, on specific metrics. I mean, building relationships with governments in all these different countries and at the very least complying with local laws on where should we have certain speech laws versus not.
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Meta
I mean, it is completely unnatural for them to have done what they've done. And it's all been very, very intentional to connect the world. Yep. Okay, last playbook theme I've got, there's always another battle for meta.
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Meta
Now that they're through the user privacy issues and the many years of the whole 2016 election conversation we talked about, and I'm not going to list them all here, the many, many societal conflicts that they've had over and over again, the current issue for them is around the impact of social media on mental health, and in particular, teen mental health.
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Meta
And it feels fitting to put this near the conclusion of the episode, because while going deep on this wasn't a part of our understanding of how and why meta as a business works so well, it is a really important topic. There's a lot of people making arguments that social media is bad for our brains, and the consequences, if that ends up being globally true, is catastrophic for meta.
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Meta
probably a bigger challenge than they've ever faced at any other point in history. So if you're asking yourself, what are the things to keep an eye on going forward for them? It is, of course, all the product innovation and the growth of the existing business and trying to invent the next platform and everything we've talked about.
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Meta
Yeah. But it's also how the mental health issue, understanding all that unfolds and how they handle it.
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Meta
It is the company that has connected the world that will always gear up for the next battle and be whatever they need to be in the next era. And whether it's them defining the next generation of computing or creating all these AI experiences or fending off the next TikTok or the current TikTok, like they just move like water.
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Meta
And so to be clear, that's an operating system, a web server with Apache, MySQL, the free open source database, PHP, the free open source programming language.
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Meta
Yeah, at this point, I think we're well past the Turing test, but it is sort of the most convinced that something is actually a person I've ever been. And if I didn't upload all the sources and know that it was like unbelievably tailored content to the thing that I just uploaded, I'm not sure I would know that it was AI. It's pretty amazing. I have two.
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Meta
One is a documentary on Netflix called Mr. McMahon. I was not a pro wrestling person growing up. I kind of want to go be a pro wrestling person now. This documentary is incredible. It is some of the best storytelling I've ever seen. And interestingly, it's a documentary that is told with no narrator. So there is story arc all throughout the episode exclusively with interview answers.
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Meta
And you almost don't notice at some point you finish an episode and you're like, Wait, there was no narration in that. There was no cheesiness. It was all first party accounts and then cuts to like old footage of things that aired on TV. And then the credits come up and of course, it's a Ringer production. Bill Simmons is the executive producer. It is remarkable.
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Meta
And Mr. McMahon is a singular figure in the world. Certainly not to be glorified, but one to try and understand. Oh, man.
Acquired
Meta
Yes. My second quick one is the Dwarkesh podcast. I love the Dwarkesh podcast. I also love Dwarkesh. And I think that if you like this show, you'll love listening to the interviews he does. Most recent one, or maybe it was a couple ago, is with Daniel Yergin, who is the author of The Prize.
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Meta
which is a book, David, you and I almost read a whole bunch of it for Standard Oil, and then we realized Standard Oil is sort of over, at least the chapter of Standard Oil that we were covering within the first two chapters of his book. And so it's basically everything from the end of our Standard Oil episode forward on the geopolitics of oil that end up shaping and forming our world today.
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Meta
And Dwarkesh is just an amazing interviewer and conversationalist. All right. Well, with that, listeners, a huge thank you to our partners, JP Morgan Payments, Crusoe, Statsig, and Huntress. You can click the link in the show notes to learn more. We talked to a ton of people for research on this one.
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Meta
And while we can't mention everyone, in part because the list would just be too long, in other part, we had some folks... Ask not to be thanked. We do have some specific ones that we want to give a shout out to. So Alex Schultz, the CMO, head of growth analytics internationalization. Great to talk with. Boz, Andrew Bosworth, the CTO.
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Meta
Stephen Levy, who wrote the book Facebook, The Inside Story, was generous with his time. Jim Breyer, who led Excel's Series A investment in Facebook. Jan LeCun, met his chief AI scientist. Alex Heath at The Verge for spending his time with me. To a friend of the show, Aravind Navarathnam from Worldly Partners, who wrote an excellent research report kind of chronicling everything.
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Meta
Rich consumer grade. Yeah. It's the technical requirements of course match, but with photos. Photos and voting. Sure. Yeah, you have like probably an additional table of information in the database or something. But the big takeaway here is A, of course, the use case shouldn't have done it. B, wow, it gets engagement.
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Meta
Well, it's almost like a written version of this podcast. It's like a hundred page PDF that was awesome to consume, kind of to help me remember all the big beats of the story and that his research report is linked in the show notes. To Arielle Zuckerberg, Mark's sister, Sheryl Sandberg, obviously longtime COO. Mike Schrepfer, the former CTO and now senior fellow.
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Meta
To Pete Hunt, early engineer who transferred from Facebook to Instagram post-acquisition. Naomi Gleit, who we talked about, founding member of the growth team and the longest employee. Longest tenured meta-employee at this point besides Mark. Yep. To Mike Vernal, former Meta VP of Product and Engineering, and former Sequoia partner Vijay Raji, former engineer and VP, now of course CEO of Statsig.
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Meta
Aparna Ramani, a VP in AI, data, and developer infrastructure at Meta. To Owen Van Nada, Facebook's early COO. And David, I know you have a few as well.
Acquired
Meta
Yes. Essentially, this episode came about because we had done too much research for the Mark interview. And we were like, we probably should do the actual meta episode too. Yeah. Listeners, it is time for our acquired annual survey. So if you have three to five minutes, please click the link in the show notes or go to acquired.fm slash survey. You might win meta Ray-Bans.
Acquired
Meta
You might win some ACQ dad hats. This is our one big ask of the year, and it really, really helps make the show better to hear your suggestions, feedback, and to help show sponsors just how impactful the acquired audience is. That is acquired.fm slash survey. Check out ACQ2 and any podcast player. If you liked this episode, listen to our NVIDIA series, listen to our Microsoft series.
Acquired
Meta
I don't know, maybe go listen to our Standard Oil series. A lot of great Acquired in the back catalog. And discuss it with us in the Slack, acquired.fm slash slack. With that, listeners, we'll see you next time. We'll see you next time.
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Meta
C, this is training wheels of how to use these new open source web technologies to If you go back two, three, four years, you're going to have to go to Oracle. You're going to have to go to Microsoft. You're going to have to buy like enterprise grade, super proprietary systems to do this.
Acquired
Meta
And this is all just like free and something you can cobble together and upload onto some Linux web hosting and boom, there had to be a hundred times more, a thousand times more web applications created by the Mark Zuckerbergs everywhere in this period of time doing whatever random little project that they thought would be fun or funny or useful.
Acquired
Meta
Totally. $10 domain, $100 a year web hosting that includes the database, no licenses required, PHP is all free. Maybe the bandwidth would have been an issue, but this is on the order of $100 to do this.
Acquired
Meta
Yeah, by these measures that we're talking about right now. Right. Now, of course, the story of how we got here is nuts. It is the perfect acquired stew, like you're saying, David. They speed ran their startup phase. They swerved through multiple disruptive technology waves. They battled fierce competitors. They invented or maybe discovered one of the greatest business models ever.
Acquired
Meta
I mean, this is a big deal. Everyone on campus knew about FaceMash. A lot of people already knew about CourseMatch anyway, so he's now the guy who can make websites and web applications here at Harvard that people use.
Acquired
Meta
and Friendsters out there, and I looked it up, Stanford had Club Nexus, Columbia had CU Community, Yale had Yale Station. I'm sorry, there's a whole movie made about the drama of how novel this idea is. It's not.
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Meta
Also, again, the chutzpah to say, we have this idea. You are a programmer. You will program our idea. Yeah. Clearly, Mark can come up with his own ideas that get people excited enough to use the stuff he builds. Now, so far, it's been a little unsavory, but he doesn't have a problem coming up with ideas with product market fit and executing them end to end.
Acquired
Meta
The only thing he hasn't done so far is made money, made anything as a business. But what other pieces of the puzzle does he really need from some people with an idea?
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Meta
He was the CEO. I remember thinking the same thing when I shipped my first app to the App Store. Co-founder Ian and I in 2009, I think, made something called Seize the Day, got over a million downloads. Two programmers uploaded something to the App Store. That's a slightly different era because that's mobile, not web.
Acquired
Meta
And they're now trying to pull forward the next technology generation through sheer force of will with AR, VR, and AI. So finally, listeners, we tackle one of the greatest corporate stories ever. Facebook, the Mark Zuckerberg production. So listeners, we have one big announcement for you today. It is time for our annual acquired survey.
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Meta
But I remember looking around being like, whoa, we like didn't need a business guy. Right. That's the craziest thing. You can make stuff and you can put it in the world.
Acquired
Meta
And again, not a business, just like a project. He has this gut feeling that people will use this if he makes it.
Acquired
Meta
And when you say just a digital Facebook, you mean like essentially the profile page would just be a photo and a name.
Acquired
Meta
I totally do. I looked this up. I spent like two hours trying to figure this out. Really? Yeah.
Acquired
Meta
Because everyone always said it's Al Pacino. And I'm like, it doesn't really... No. Al Pacino must have looked really different when he was younger. And it's not.
Acquired
Meta
If you have three to five minutes, please click the link in the show notes or go to acquired.fm slash survey to take it. We'll be raffling off a pair of shiny new meta Ray-Bans and giving away a bunch of ACQ dad hats as well.
Acquired
Meta
We'll link to that image. There's this great Quora post, which we should say, Adam D'Angelo, founder and CEO of Quora, after Facebook. There's a great Quora post about this where there's unmistakably the photo of Peter Wolfe that Facebook guy is based on. They just sort of pixelated it and, you know, made it duotone instead of the original photograph.
Acquired
Meta
Awesome. I feel like it's like one of the most infamous screenshots is the screenshot of that original homepage.
Acquired
Meta
So importantly, things that did not exist here yet. Messages, wall posts, even, I don't think pokes were in the original very first version. That's a good question.
Acquired
Meta
This is really our one big ask of you all year, and it helps us immensely with making the show better to hear your suggestions and also to help our sponsors understand just how impactful the Acquired audience is. So go to acquired.fm slash survey, and David and I are both eternally grateful.
Acquired
Meta
Yep. But no Facebook events, no photos other than your profile photo. I mean, no, I don't even think status updates were in the very first one.
Acquired
Meta
And that's what makes it different than all these other social networks. MySpace existed. Friendster existed. But anyone could sign up for these. And in part, that meant that they had more explosive growth because there was no governor on the growth. And we'll talk about all the problems that sort of come from... Anyone, anywhere can sign up at any time.
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But the very core thing here is authenticated people. The people who are signing up for Facebook at the start are people you know go to the same college as you and have to use their real name matched against a university-issued email address. Identity and authentic identity is a part of the company from its first moment.
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These are all people you would give your email and phone number and maybe even birthday to if they just asked.
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After this episode, discuss it in the Slack and check out ACQ2, our second show where we just had Clem DeLong, the CEO of Hugging Face On, to talk about his view on how the open source AI ecosystem will play out. And before we dive in, we want to briefly thank our presenting partner, JP Morgan Payments.
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So it is amazing how much of the next billion plus people's source of value comes from this founding moment. The Facebook grows tremendously in functionality over time, but everything is like a natural outcropping out of authentic identity, user-submitted content, trust that the people who are seeing this content are people in your sort of private network.
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The whole thing is here in this first few weeks of coding that got done and then threw up the landing page.
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Right. Almost nobody can use the Facebook, but for the people who can, it's an unbelievably great experience. As they expanded, that stayed true. It was either you're not allowed to use it, or if you are, it's blow away great instantly.
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Hmm. Interesting. Yeah, that's a great point. Okay. So like weeks go by and they've saturated Harvard. And not only that, you start seeing this thing happen, which just to level set with listeners, this stayed true for several years. This is a crazy stat. 70% of people who ever signed up were active that day. There are not user engagement retention metrics better than that in the world.
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The fact that as they grew, it didn't matter how many more people they added, it was still the case that 70% of users ever were daily active. And so you have this crazy situation at Harvard where it's just like, to your point, nuclear reactor levels engaging. In fact, this term wouldn't get coined till later in the summer, but this is from The Facebook Effect, David Kirkpatrick's book.
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So with that, this show is not investment advice. David and I may have investments in the companies we discuss, and this show is for informational and entertainment purposes only. David, Roman Empire, like, what's our starting place here?
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They had coined a term for how students seem to use a site. Zuckerberg, Moskowitz, and Parker, Sean Parker, who we'll talk about who comes in, called it the trance. Once you start combing through the Facebook, it was very easy to keep going. It was hypnotic. You just kept clicking and clicking and clicking from profile to profile, viewing the data.
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Right away, they add the wall. So there's a way to publicly post things like testimonials on your friends' walls. You could view a wall-to-wall so you could see the public posts that you were making back and forth to each other. So you've got your profile information, wall posts, and that's it.
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It's so interesting. He doesn't go to the schools where there's nothing. He goes to the schools where there is something and wants to be better than it.
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This is a early mindset of we are going to be globally dominant. If you're okay splitting the market, you go for the white space and then you say, let's see how much of the low-hanging fruit we can easily get.
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But if you're Facebook, you're going to say, let's go to the hardest possible competitor, extinguish them, and then we'll have a better shot at owning the whole market and we can get to the low-hanging fruit later.
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By the way, their strategy once they did win at a school like Columbia was to go figure out all the schools that were like closest to Columbia in terms of network connections and then win there too to kind of like build a moat around their victory.
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Yeah. The scarce commodity is trust. That is the important lesson here. It's also a very convenient infrastructure decision, where if these two systems truly don't need to talk to each other, that's great. Put different servers in different data centers. Don't worry about overloading the database. Don't worry about number of writes per second and reads per second. It's great.
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If every school gets its own server rack, you end up not having some of these issues that the other social networks have. Friendsters out there trying to compute second-degree friends of friends, which is this crazy hard computer science problem, especially as the global number of people growing. It's an N-squared problem.
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And Facebook is over here, or the Facebook at the time, in the land where they're keeping n small. So even anything that's n squared is contained within that school, and their servers aren't falling over and taking 20-plus seconds to load pages the way that the Friendsters of the world are.
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Right. It's effectively counter-positioning. They're building the Facebook in such a way that the use cases don't require incredibly sophisticated technology to accomplish those feature sets. There's this funny chicken or the egg thing here, and I think the answer, like many chicken or the egg, is both. Mark, at the moment he conceives of an idea...
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thinks through the technical requirements and the user experience. And they're sort of co-mingled in the product development process. And so I really do think even at age 19, he was sort of aware of the scaling benefits in addition to the user experience benefits of launching in this way.
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Unbelievable. It is crazy. Tying this back to our Microsoft episode, this would have been, what, early 2004? And so this would have been right after Bill...
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stopped being ceo handed the ceo reins to steve he was still the chief architect and still chairman of the board but it's sort of this like post doj time for microsoft where bill is just technically focused and can do things like go speak at harvard yeah it is amazing how much influence microsoft had on facebook and on mark we have a lot more to talk about on that front
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And they start building these wait lists. I mean, this is the other. There's so many common startup things that Facebook kind of invented. They built tremendous demand for. before they would light up the network.
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They knew that as soon as you're in Facebook, you want to quickly get to seven friends or 10 friends or whatever the metric is to create that sort of magic moment where you're like, oh yeah, Facebook now works for me. So they wanted to wait until they had sufficient demand to boom, open that school. And then once it's open, everybody should have the best possible experience. And so you're seeing...
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Facebook basically say, OK, wherever there's really strong demand, that's where we'll open next. And we're not going to open anywhere where we see like, you know, middling demand for our product.
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And it is important to know, to this point, it is a project. Mark and Dustin and Chris and everyone who moves out, they are there to work on a project that they think is cool and seems to be working and get exposure to Silicon Valley and venture capitalists for when they start their startup having a network. That is literally the mentality. Facebook is live at how many schools, David? A hundred.
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A hundred schools. And they are going out not with the intent to make this a company, but to contemplate what company they could start and meet people that can help them with that.
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Yeah. So to make a long story short, yes, everything you saw in the social network around this, the result is effectively correct that Eduardo Saverin goes from owning a third of this Florida-based LLC to something like 2% of this C-Corp that is a Delaware C-Corp based in California that goes on to become... or is Facebook Inc.
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And the justification that they effectively use in changing this structure is, hey, a bunch of us moved to California to start a company together. You stayed back and yes, you sold some ads in the meantime, but like you didn't come start the company with us. Listener, we leave it to you to sort of decide how that should have played out and what's fair. None of us were there.
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He was a co-founder of Facebook and then ended up with 2% and lived on a different coast. Okay, so they're in California. They get really serious about the Facebook. They actually are still working on something else called Wirehog concurrently within the same team, but they're starting to realize, okay, this, the Facebook thing really, really has legs.
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And as they're sort of contemplating their next move, they literally run into someone on the street who will change everything. David, who is this person?
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Yes. So before we tell the Sean Parker chapter of the Facebook episode, Now is a great time to talk about our presenting partner, JP Morgan Payments. In these critical moments, like we are talking about now, where a new paradigm or technology shift happens, David and I typically focus on the founders and the innovators who figure out how to build something really great.
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But unfortunately, it's not just the good actors who take advantage of these opportunities.
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Enter JPMorgan Payments. With the digital payments ecosystem expanding rapidly through innovations like real-time payments, blockchain, and peer-to-peer networks, the attack surface has grown exponentially. For a company like JPMorgan, who moves $10 trillion a day across 160 countries, staying ahead of bad actors is critical for the entire global financial system. Thank you so much for having me.
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They've got a great payments developer portal. It's a trusted, scalable platform built with payment security and risk management in mind.
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David, I actually met the founder of Sardine at the meetup that we did after the Chase Center event with JPMorgan Payments in San Francisco last month. That's right. It was awesome. Ultimately, every business benefits from built-in fraud prevention, whether you're moving $100 or $1 billion. And with the trust and innovation from J.P.
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Morgan Payments' whole ecosystem, you can drive growth while protecting your business. Check out more payment solutions and stories at jpmorgan.com slash acquired. Okay, David, Sean Parker enters the picture. Here we go.
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Which is how every social company got its start. Facebook did a ton of this. LinkedIn did a ton of this. WhatsApp did this.
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Hey, let me see who all the people you know are so that on this new thing that you want to be connected to all the people you know... You're connected to all the people you know. Oh, by the way, we might also invite all the people that you've ever contacted.
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And it is kind of crazy to think about, unless you had a student show you on their computer, this is what Facebook is, there's no real way for you to know other than the signup page.
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Perfect. Match made in heaven. Well, I'll check out our wall-to-wall from the old days and see if there are any posts about that. All right, let's do it.
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Nice to meet you. I don't think even Mark knows yet that he's moving to California this summer.
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And here's the thing. To this point in history, he really wasn't wrong. He was absolutely right. There wasn't Founders Fund yet. There wasn't A16Z yet. There wasn't like the notion of founder friendliness. What venture capitalists did is they invested in founders companies and then brought in management to take them to the next level. Yep. And...
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And he ends up with a pretty decent chunk for a non-founder, and he ends up with a board seat. Now, granted, it's technically Mark's board seat, but Sean's the one sitting in it.
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David, I toyed with the intro to this show being, and we are your hosts. Civilization is a video game upon which, but I decided not to.
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That's so funny. But they really are sort of thinking of themselves as this almost like incubator lab. I don't really understand how this is true, but they really did convince themselves that their current frontrunner for the product they were most excited about was Wirehog.
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And Facebook might be like a good distribution vehicle for it, or maybe at some point they don't even focus on Facebook anymore and they go all in on Wirehog. And they're actively talking about this insanity while speaking with investors about raising capital.
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Not only do the Facebook thing, but like music is kryptonite as a space right now because of what Napster did to the music labels. How is Sean not the one being like, stay a thousand yards away from music? My God.
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Yep. And really brokered the relationship with Mark for Daniel and Mark to hit it off and obviously Spotify to have a huge amount of growth on Facebook.
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Your user numbers are what? Your engagement is what? Your retention is what? Your Dow-Mau ratio is what? Oh my God!
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I was shocked. I mean, it just, It's so easy to forget this, but it was just 20 years ago. The idea that a venture capitalist makes an investment in a company and they are not the controlling shareholder was blasphemous just 20 years ago. Totally blasphemous.
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Yeah, it's a one of one intro to make. I mean, it probably would have had to be someone else in the PayPal mafia that kind of fits that.
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Yeah. That's a crazy counterfactual thinking about if Elon had invested in Facebook instead of Peter Thiel.
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Yeah, at this point, the 70% stat keeps being true. Despite the fact that they keep opening all these new schools, it keeps being true that 70% of people who have ever signed up are daily active users. So I think Mark realizes, oh, I have created one of the most engaging technology applications ever.
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Charges do eventually get dropped, but in the meantime, the decision is made, hey, this is not something the company is going to get sucked into.
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Yep. It's kind of amazing thinking about Founders Fund raising capital on the back of this investment. One pitch is, we invested in Facebook. The flip side of it is we just invested in a company. We're currently holding it flat because there's been no markup yet from any other investors, and they're not generating any revenue.
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Who got the truth? Is it you? Is it you? Is it you? Who got the truth now? Is it you? Is it you? Is it you? Sit me down. Say it straight. Another story on the way. Who got the
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And they're actively spending that. The company has never consumed that much capital, but they are having to spend it on servers. As they stand up new colleges, they are having to go into data centers and rack servers or rent servers on a monthly basis. And server bills are starting to add up, especially as they scaled to how many schools were they at in the fall of 2004? Several hundred.
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Well, Sean Parker introduced Mark to Western Technology Investment, WTI. The debt fund, yeah. Yeah. And so they basically invented venture debt. And so they make a $300,000 loan. It's like, I think like a revolving credit line in the fall of 2004. And that comes with warrants that if the company ever goes public, that they can then exercise.
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They do a deal again the next spring for another $300,000. So they're in for $600,000. I spoke with someone years ago who told me this ended up being phenomenally, phenomenally successful. And the warrant exercise on this I think is the greatest venture debt deal of all time.
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Yes. So Kevin Afrusi, who ran down the deal and did the diligence at Accel, and Jim Breyer, who was the partner and took the board seat, This is one of the all-time great venture investments. And so it's worth talking about some of the deal mechanics. It was the very first post.com institutional venture capital deal where the founder maintained control.
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Certainly the norm was as soon as a VC gets involved, it is a VC-controlled board and company. The other thing that's worth noting is this is a company getting a $98 million valuation. Now, the silly land that we live in now are like, this happens all the time. This didn't happen, and we were only just coming out of the dot-com era. So eyeballs and clicks had just had...
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four years of demonization from everyone, from the press to the public to limited partners. In fact, Excel had limited partners drop out of this fund who were LPs previously, including your beloved Princeton, including Harvard. I mean, big and dying Stanford was one of the only ones that really stuck with them for this $400 million fund. And they're kind of looking at this, realizing,
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This might be one of the greatest companies of all time, and we are going to have to do the type of deal that everyone got raked over the coals for five years ago in the mania for doing. And no one is doing this type of deal in this environment. But it's Facebook, so we're going to do it. I think the level of risk and reputation risk that they took on this cannot be underscored enough.
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Yeah. So some other interesting deal points. $1.1 million of this $12.7 million round was done by Jim Breyer personally. Wow. Yeah. The shares were acquired at 4.5 cents per share. Facebook just recently hit $600 a share. So Excel and their limited partners and Jim, for anyone who's still holding the shares after they distributed them, that is a 13,000x return.
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Another interesting thing on this, do you know the whole Don Graham dynamic with this deal?
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The original deal was that Don Graham from the Washington Post was going to invest and it wasn't going to be a VC deal. That was at a $60 million valuation. Excel comes in over the top and in part of the negotiation to get it up to this $98 million deal, there was actually a secondary deal. Oh, wow. $3 million went to Mark, Dustin, and Sean as a secondary in this deal.
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This is Facebook having all the leverage and full deal control in negotiating this Series A. Wow. And still, it was one of the best venture capital investments of all time.
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But to your point, this idea that it's turn-based, you try to amass resources, figure out how to deploy your resources, have multiple concurrent strategies so that you, as the roll of the dice of the universe happens and things unfold before you and you're... And other players make their moves.
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It's funny, as you're saying all this, it sounds like very old hat, like almost boring. Of course it does all of that. At the time, it was so revolutionary.
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So Photos, I think, was like late summer of 05. Interestingly, Photos did not originally include photo tagging. Photo tagging was like a pretty new concept. I think Flickr may have had it, but the idea that like you're tagging a person and then you can go browse that person's profile by photos they've been tagged in, that wasn't brand new innovation.
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That is a mechanic that was not thought of in social networks before. If you think about what Friendster and MySpace were, You could upload a limited set of photos, which, by the way, you'd have to delete one to add another.
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And this is a through line through the whole episode. What social media or social networks are definitionally changes every year. And often Facebook was the one in the early days to push the envelope and say, this is what it means to be a social network. In the later years, it was Facebook's competitors that then they had to sort of adopt that functionality. But
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Right. To be able to effectively react to it all and use your resources to win in whatever way winning means to you.
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The idea that a social network includes an infinite number of photos that you can tag and give X, Y coordinates on the photo to map to a specific person that is another entity in the social network, that was actually a new component to what it meant to be a social network. And as you were saying with News Feed, that wouldn't happen for another, what was that, late summer of 2006 or something?
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September 2006. Yeah, so another year, year and a half after this, that completely turned what social media, social networking was on its head again.
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To this point, a social network is a set of static profile pages that you can navigate to. And if you go to home, like the root, you know, facebook.com slash instead of slash profile php, it's pretty useless. Like the homepage is actually an uninteresting place to hang out. There is no, hey, let me see what's going on in my network.
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Yeah, this stat is crazy. By November of 2005, they were getting 230 million page views daily, which means that they had passed Google in page views. Wow. Google, the company started six years earlier. And the reason is because when you're on Google, you do like one or two searches and then you go to your destination.
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On Facebook, you get caught in an hours-long trance of looking at everybody you know and what they're doing.
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I mean, let's say it's 10 million. It's 23 page views per day per person. That's assuming that every single person who is a monthly user is accessing it every day and loading a page 23 times.
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In our mobile age now, that doesn't really sound like much. I bet the number of photos that someone scrolls through on Instagram is way higher than that. But for the time, that interactivity was just nuts.
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Yeah. So here's their user growth. In June of 05, as you mentioned, they were at 3 million. By September of 05, they were at 5 million users. That was 10x their user base just a year ago in September of 04. And almost a third of all U.S. college students were included in that 5 million. So by September of 05, they had a third of U.S. college students.
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Of their 5 million users that they had about 18 months in, 70% were daily active, 85% were weekly active, 93% were monthly active. Wow.
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Yes. I could go on and on and on. But one interesting thing to also point out, at this period of time, October of 05, they were up to 8.3 million users. They were the 10th most visited site on the internet. But the important part is they were doing a million dollars a month in revenue. They had actually started figuring out the advertising business model. So here we are 19 months after founding.
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Yeah, you're right. Actually, I completely misspoke. I would say that they were nowhere near figuring out the advertising business model. Yes.
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And in this world where startups glorify raising capital, burning huge amounts of money, delaying monetization, and then having these amazing screamin' returns when they finally do turn on the money faucet, Facebook was just the opposite. Yeah. They lost money and not that much money for like a year and a half. And then from that point on, they were just profitable.
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And for different reasons, right? The workplace ones, they were like, the workplace thing is going to be awesome because it's authenticated email addresses the same way that the colleges had authenticated email addresses. Most high schools don't have authenticated email addresses. So we expect these workplace networks to work better.
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I don't want some low res party photos of me from last night showing up on my workplace.
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The extreme bear case on Facebook at this moment in time is you started with the group of people who are the most social and the most open to share in their entire lives. You've already saturated a third of them. Every single cohort that you add from here is probably going to be worse.
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Yep. And in fact, what they ended up doing, because I was in high school at this time, it was technically a different Facebook. In fact, I will quote the homepage when you went to sign up. If you went to Facebook.com in 2006, the title was Facebook is an online directory that connects people through social networks at schools.
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Now there are two Facebooks, one for people in colleges and one for people in high school. The site is open to a lot of schools, but not everywhere yet. We're working on it. And so if you signed up as a high schooler... You got the crappy one. You had to log into hs.facebook.com. And it looked mostly the same. It had slightly different features...
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And the subdomaining thing was that lasted for a long time because the college Facebooks were subdomained as a part of their like tech infrastructure. Harvard.facebook.com only went to the set of servers that they had set up for that. It made it all really easy from an infrastructure perspective. I was on hs.facebook.com for a long time as a college student.
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Yes, exactly. And it meant that they needed to like manage scale and load balance really differently because very quickly the largest network or like certainly the largest subdomain was the high school one. And so I think like within a month or two of allowing high school signups, you know, high school as a whole was much, much, much, much larger.
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And they had to solve for the technology constraint of what do we do with this? It doesn't behave like any of our college networks.
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And this part of the story never gets told. The fact that actually, at first, Mark did not turn down the billion-dollar offer from Yahoo. Mark actually accepted, or at least said, let me turn over another card and get one inch closer to the negotiation being final. You know, it wasn't an outright rejection at first. It was, yeah, come back with the papers.
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It really is astonishing as a 10-year-old to be learning C++. This is not basic. This is a language where you are thinking very close to the metal. You have to be very aware of the constraints of your system, of manually managing memory. It's impressive for 14 or 16-year-olds to be learning simplistic languages. This is a whole different ballgame.
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Well, it's certainly much more realistic. It's a simple and powerful story to say they just outright rejected it. But that's just never how these things go. It's like, show me you're real.
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Okay, so analyzing, let's say he just did turn it down outright. Well, here's a reasonable way to look at it. If what you want to do is run a great company for the rest of your life, it actually was totally rational. Mark has said publicly, I mean, it's like 15, 18 years ago, I didn't have any more ideas as good as Facebook. But that's like way underselling it.
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Yes, it would have been nice to have certainty on a billion dollars or whatever percent of the billion mark owned at that point. And also, a year before, MySpace had gotten bought for $580 million. Right, by News Corp. So it's like, geez, okay, twice as much as MySpace? But rationally...
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If the optimization function is I want to run the best company I can for a very long time, almost nobody has started a better company since. So if you're looking at the engagement, you're looking at the potential, the rational thing actually is just keep running this company because I'll never discover something like it again.
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And I think he likes running this company. He would want to go start a similar company if he didn't have this one.
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Yep, that's totally fair. Even if you weren't going to bet on the growth... The user engagement was still currently great, and you had a lot of reason to believe that it was going to get even greater. And you compare all the metrics with Friendster and MySpace as time went on got worse. People churned. Their daily active to monthly active would just go down over time.
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the page loads times would take forever, especially with, well, actually with both. Friendster just was not architected properly. It was a software engineering, computer science issue. MySpace was this weird thing that was sort of born out of this combined media conglomerate, and they just never really had excellent tech architectural talent.
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And so as you sort of looked at, not the high level metrics of how many users have ever signed up, because MySpace and Friendster, I think we're still way ahead at this point, If you looked at like, hmm, but how is this going to play out if it sort of keeps compounding? And you looked at the deeper metrics, you kind of thought, oh, I'm running the better company by a lot.
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Especially, you know, we got to figure out the business, but I am running the better product by a lot.
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Welcome to the fall 2024 season of Acquired, the podcast about great companies and the stories and playbooks behind them. I'm Ben Gilbert. I'm David Rezenthal. And we are your hosts. Today, we are studying a company whose products are used by more humans than any other company in history, Meta, of course, formerly known as Facebook. So I figured I would contextualize these numbers a little bit.
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And actually, we should say, not Dustin, but a lot of the people around the table who were expecting a nice cash payout and now aren't getting one or are not pleased.
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Yeah. This is a ton of inventory. Like you just think about the amount of page views that are happening here. Suddenly Microsoft's problem is not how do we find enough inventory to sell? It's how do we go find enough advertisers to actually fill all these slots on Facebook?
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And on the other hand, this is a great deal for Facebook because Facebook sucks at selling ads and Facebook has no targeting or anything. So they really shouldn't justify high CPMs at this point. Yeah.
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Isn't it wild thinking about you thought it was crazy to turn down a billion dollar offer or many people thought you were crazy. And then just two years later, that is only a six X revenue multiple and you're tripling year over year.
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I mean, it's at an all-time high. In walking away from every deal ever, he's made the right decision. Yes. But, like, within a year, he made the right decision. Yes. Oh, yeah, that's true. This became obviously right fast. Very fast. Very fast.
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I love that Adams are like second protagonist here. I know, I know. I don't know if you did that intentionally, but yeah.
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Well, they were a web company. For the first time in history, you actually could. All these companies with big clients. I mean, Microsoft would ship every three years with a service pack once a year. It's a whole new era where all you have to do is, you know, upload some new PHP code to the FTP server and then boom, the application behaves differently the next time someone pulls down the page.
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It's the new technology era of interpreted languages running on web servers in a browser. Now that products are in browsers meant you could architect your company differently and ship differently.
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Oh, I remember it well. Many, many, many hours lost to AIM and warning my friends and other dynamics of the AIM system to gang up on people and to have other people gang up on me.
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It was the prototypical startup. I mean, to this day, early Facebook is still what most startup culture is aspiring to be.
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I think often without knowing it, I mean, everything from the sort of posters on the walls with your mantras and your values to almost having like an employment brand that you really care about cultivating to the idea of like we're having just as much fun together socially as we are working together. I think the modern startup culture
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The other thing that was basically true is they were not really interested in recruiting industry veterans, especially on the technical side. And Mark says this in early talks that he was just prioritizing raw intelligence over experience.
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Which is actually not how he ended up getting a job, but they did happen to cross paths that way before.
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Yes, having to create a new screen name and log off and log on and message someone and pretend you're someone else. I mean, the whole, this was middle school.
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So the first question you have to ask yourself if you're a good product designer, developer, capital allocator, someone in Mark's shoes saying, should we do this, is do people want this? If we build this, will it be valuable? The reason they knew it would be valuable is because the company is data obsessed and they watch the analytics like a hawk to figure out what are people doing on our site.
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And they noticed this behavior where people were browsing to other people's profiles just to look at them and see if anything changed. The user was doing the heavy compute lifting rather than having a personalized newspaper of just bouncing around to a bunch of people's profiles and saying, anything new here?
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Meta
So there was an engineer who did something really kind of hacky because they didn't want to at first put all the engineering resources into building out something like News Feed, which is, well, when something changes for some period of time, we'll just highlight it in yellow. Yes. So it's easy for you as you're bouncing around to different profiles to just see, oh, hey, this thing changed.
Acquired
Meta
And that totally worked. They watched the lift in that, and they were like, oh, it's a good feature. People like that. So that sort of gave them the confidence of, we should find a way to make it more obvious to you when new updates happen, when things change. Technically, David, for people who aren't in the sort of tech ecosystem, why is it so difficult to build something like a news feed?
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Meta
Because now we're all trained to believe that a feed is... you know, a primitive that is available to you as a developer when you're building a product because feeds are everywhere. Feeds are the core feature of most products. When you hit the homepage, it's some sort of feed. That was not true at the time. That was not true in any product. I actually challenge you right now. Think back to 2005.
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Meta
Like maybe you've got Reddit and Dig, and you could sort of make an argument that their feeds, they're paginated rankings of stories. So you could see like, oh, what are the most important stories? But even that's a pretty different fundamental thing. I don't think Reddit had launched yet.
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Meta
Oh yeah, Reddit was in the first YC batch, which was 05. So it wasn't really, it was right around this same time. Okay, so how do you make a feed? Well, if you are an algorithms developer, the way you would sort of think of it is, okay, well, first I need to pick a point in time
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Meta
And from that point in time, and let's call that maybe the last time someone looked at their feed, I need to store that timestamp. And now I need to go look at every single profile of someone that you are connected to. So this is N and download or cache all of their recent updates since that time period. So I need to like store that somewhere. I need a new place to store a copy of
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Meta
of all of this information that lives on someone's profile, or at least pointers to that on everybody's profile. And I need that to happen for every user. So now it's N squared. Every single person on the entire Facebook needs to have something running in the background that is looking at every other person on Facebook since a particular time.
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Meta
And then that compute and storage all needs to happen fast enough such that by the time they want to go check the feed again, it's happened again. And obviously like now that happens in real time. And I think it was something like every three hours there was like a new batch.
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Meta
That's right. They needed to happen on separate boxes to run this process, cache the results, and then when you loaded your newsfeed, go fetch them. So this is like a whole new application using the same data that the company has to build in order to make newsfeed happen.
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Meta
On the back end, this doesn't contemplate any of the front-end design or engineering or incredible permutations of how to display this data when it does come back, given a massive combinatorial problem of how might this data come back.
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Meta
Right. So now you're telling me you want to rank order it by something other than... Chronology. Make another pass and figure out what I think is going to be the most interesting to you, which on its own is an incredibly difficult computer science problem. What is interesting to you? What data should we use to inform that decision?
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Meta
Do we have to put weights on every relationship in this entire complex friend graph between every single entity and how close they are and then re-rank that very often? Eventually, yeah.
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Meta
And also guess how people are finding out about this group. Through newsfeed. Yes. This is the great irony of the whole situation. There's a literal panic in the streets. There are people protesting outside the office. There is somebody trying to use a crane to get into the third story. Basically, a TV truck is trying to cover what's happening in the pandemonium.
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And at the same time, despite everyone telling them, I hate this thing, it's the worst thing ever, if you look at the analytics, people love it. People cannot get enough of scrolling through the new news feed. And the reason they're really upset is actually quite interesting. They're saying, oh, it's sharing this with my whole network.
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Meta
Okay, but you updated it on your profile, which has always been public to your whole network. And I think Facebook, for the first time, kind of stepped in it and realized, oh, even though technically this data has always, you know, we didn't change how public or private it is. It's just as accessible.
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Meta
People react really strongly when you change the ease of obtaining that information or whether it feels like you are pushing that information out versus someone is sort of pulling by going to your profile and viewing.
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Meta
Which, by the way, sounds like something that Mark would say today. I think this 2006 era is like the last time. And then you would have had like a 17-year break. And now we're sort of getting that Mark again. Yes. You can't imagine Mark circa 2018 saying, calm down, breathe, we hear you.
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Meta
Yep. But it's funny. I did just pull up. We've been getting a lot of feedback about News Feed. We think they're great products, but we know many of you are not immediate fans and have found them overwhelming and cluttered. I don't think clutter was what people were complaining about. A little bit of redirects in there. Yeah. It's funny. We didn't take away any privacy options.
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Meta
Your privacy options remain the same. The privacy rules haven't changed. None of your information is visible to anyone who couldn't see it before the changes. Blah, blah, blah. It's like, it is interesting. It's true and not relevant. That's not what people are mad about. People are pretty aware that this is the same information.
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Meta
I'd even say before this, there wasn't social media, or at least Facebook wasn't social media. Facebook was a social network, but this was the first time they introduced a media component, a thing you would read.
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Meta
That's fascinating. And it is interesting how you ended up kind of using away messages after a while, even while you were there, just to indicate status.
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Meta
I'm glad you planted the seed because this will come back over and over again in their history of people now feel differently, and the product needs to change with those societal expectations in order for people to not be upset about it.
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Meta
And to the extent that you did feel that privacy had changed, you're now kind of used to anything I put on Facebook gets broadcasted. So who cares if more randos come in? It's already getting broadcasted.
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Meta
Well, I don't think at first when it was this like pure chronology. Yeah, I guess that's a good point. As they make it more algorithmic. But this was still a period in time where your friends were your friends. I mean, Facebook was only two years old. And so for the vast majority of users, they joined in the last year. So they didn't have anybody who wasn't really their friend as a friend.
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Meta
Now I just have to treat Facebook posts as if they're public because the group of friends is aged. But in that period of time, you could trust if something was getting published to your friends that, like, it's just going to your friends.
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Meta
Yeah. I mean, Facebook has a brand at this point. It's the best social network. It's the fastest growing social network. It's the one that all the college kids will always be the cool people in any society at any time. That's the age group of trendsetting, and they have conquered that market.
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Meta
High school kids want to be like college students, and people not in college want to be like college students.
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Meta
And there was this incredible tension. At least it seemed like the tech media wanted to play up this tension. Are they an advertising company or a platform company? Because they're super different business models with very different incentives and users kind of need to know how to think about it.
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Meta
And it was kind of at the same time Cheryl had just joined the company or was about to join the company.
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Meta
And so they really hadn't gotten serious. She sort of led them to figure out, hey, let's survey all the business models, do some work on each of them and figure out and commit to being an ads company. At this point in time, like they were showing ads, but the whole leadership team, at least I'm convinced, believed we are on the way to becoming a platform.
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Meta
But they have two important things that as an application developer you're interested in. One, user attention. You know, the same way that Microsoft had user attention with PCs because they had the install base of Windows. And two, a whole crap ton of data about each person that you could then... build into your application to make it really rich and feel personalized.
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Meta
Oh my God. Every 10 days, they're adding another 20th of their user base and they're growing by five. What is that? It's like 7% every two weeks. It's like three and a half percent a week.
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Meta
I think I was playing with my sister, with my grandma. I mean, it is a great way to like do things digitally with the people that matter to you.
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Meta
And it gave Facebook, from a business perspective, it sort of gave them another stakeholder. Hey, developers are someone who can keep people on the platform longer so we can show them more ads. They might do their own advertising, so they might drive traffic to Facebook. They could help grow the core platform itself. It gives us...
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Meta
sort of more lock-in as people develop for us and as users seek out applications on us. They're hoping for sort of that Microsoft playbook of platforms get really epic lock-in.
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Meta
You're building a web app that has an unbelievably rich set of data that you can hook into. The thing that I was, I don't think I could have put into words then, but I can now, is has a successful scale, durable platform ever been built that wasn't an operating system?
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Meta
Like it always felt weird to me in that moment that Facebook thought they could be a platform because I was like, well, it's a website. I mean, it's a web app and I have profile and I have all this rich information, but it's not like running on my device.
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Meta
If only I had the words. But what do you do with that information? What was I going to be bearish on the company? That would have been a super wrong call.
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Meta
Yeah. Listeners, write in if you can think of one, a successful, scaled, durable platform where the platform is able to make money and they're able to make a lot of money for developers, for people on the platform that is not an operating system that runs on hardware.
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Meta
And this gets into the question of what is a platform? Because let's say I make a web app that I run on my own website, I do my own marketing, I do my own monetization, but I let users authenticate Facebook so I can pull some information out of their profile. It's like it's not really built on the Facebook platform. It's not like the core APIs that enable my application to run are...
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Meta
using Facebook's APIs. I'm using Facebook's APIs to grab some data. The core API set that allows it to run is the browser. It's almost like, if you think about the intermediation layers, Facebook was trying to build a platform on top of a browser that was a platform on top of an operating system that was a platform, and it
Acquired
Meta
The reason why we aren't all using rich Facebook apps all the time today and think of it as the default platform, it was just too many layers of abstraction away from the hardware to win.
Acquired
Meta
But what this does tease out is Facebook, and now we can talk about this 15 plus years later, has kind of a weak position for launching a platform since they don't control the OS or the hardware. And so they have to make a little bit more of an appealing sale to a developer. And that includes big distribution for you, but it also includes... a ton of access to data.
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Meta
And I remember being an early Facebook developer and after user authenticates, looking at that JSON and being like, okay, so it's their whole profile. Oh, it's their whole friends list. Wow. I get a lot of stuff here. And Facebook was incentivized to do that because they almost had to sell harder than other platforms who controlled hardware historically would have had to.
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Meta
And that's the tradeoff they have to weigh. That's sort of their in the type of platform they are trying to build. They have set up that incentive set and they need to figure out what to do with it.
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Meta
You don't need to know every time there's a new mafia war move by so-and-so showing up in your newsfeed.
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Meta
Yep. But it's the right long-term move. That was the right thing to do for Facebook with a 20-year view.
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Meta
Totally. It's the early broadband era is that era we're talking about. And you're right. Tens of millions of people, at least in the U.S., had Internet access at this point in time.
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Meta
Oh, mobile. That is quite the chapter in the Facebook story. But before we do that, now is a great time to tell you about one of our favorite companies, the climate-aligned AI infrastructure company, Crusoe.
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Meta
Yep. They've totally reimagined traditional data center architecture to support the huge power, cooling, and compute density needs of AI.
Acquired
Meta
And at the same time, as GPU cluster sizes continue to increase, there's an ever-increasing demand for energy. Crusoe has 15 gigawatts in its development pipeline, which is an astronomical amount of power. Their Abilene, Texas facility alone has over 1.2 gigawatts planned, which will make it one of the largest clusters in the world.
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Meta
As many of you already know, Crusoe sources the energy for these data centers in the most efficient and climate-aligned way in the entire industry. through clean, low-cost, and abundant energy that otherwise goes to waste. For example, in oil fields where natural gas is flared, in congested parts of the grid where renewable power is curtailed, or other areas where energy is stranded.
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Meta
Which, actually accomplishing that is a crazy hard thing. Crusoe's energy-first approach means they can build data centers in some of the most challenging locations on Earth, bringing computing to the energy rather than the other way around.
Acquired
Meta
Yep. So anyway, they're just a great company. We're super proud to work with them and to be investors. So to learn more about Crusoe, you can go to crusoe.ai slash acquired. That's C-R-U-S-O-E dot A-I slash acquired. Or click the link in the show notes and just tell them that Ben and David sent you. Thanks, Crusoe. All right, so David, we're here in the era of mobile, right? This is January 2007.
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Meta
Android was a BlackBerry clone at the time, not an iPhone clone. The Droid Does campaign wouldn't be another year or two. Yep.
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Meta
As long as they can keep it going. I mean, for them, I think the thing that shocked them about Google is, oh my god, the business model of the web is advertising. Search and browsers and everything are monetized by advertising, and that's completely orthogonal to our traditional license-based business model.
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Meta
social sure looks like where all the page views are going and is going to monetize exactly the same way as search. So actually the thing that's important to them is locking in those page views. To the extent that they can participate in this market, it kind of has to be either we own you or we are the long-term ad provider, which they didn't end up being. Or we're a big equity holder.
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Meta
That is the thing that no one talks about here. I'm so glad you brought this up because before they started this negotiation, the attempt was to buy Facebook. The highest offer floated. We talked about this in the Microsoft episode. It was a complicated set of deal terms that basically netted out to a $24 billion offer.
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Meta
And that was less than two years after the $1 billion offer that everyone talks about with Yahoo. Oh, remember the time where Mark Zuckerberg turned down a billion dollars? Less than two years later, he turned down $24 billion. And they were really good for the money. It's Microsoft.
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Meta
It was the high watermark for Facebook's valuation for a while, because the great financial crisis would happen after this, valuations would all reset, and then Facebook's next deal would get done, I think with Uri Milner at $10 billion?
Acquired
Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi
Come on in. Come on in. Who got the truth? Is it you? Is it you? Is it you? Who got the truth now? Is it you? Is it you? Is it you? Sit me down. Say it straight. Another story on the way. Who got the truth?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
Oh, yeah. Oh, you don't like it? Yeah, no, it's no. Maybe I do. I don't know. I don't like it. Tell me about it.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
It's pride. Yeah.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Humility: Because Sometimes You Gotta Eat That Pie
That's the way that I phrase you.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
The Diligence Dilemma
All the feelings presents Sins and Virtues. This episode, Diligence.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
The Diligence Dilemma
In the lush tropical rainforests of Thailand, a tale of diligence and manipulation unfolds. This is the story of the noble and unsuspecting ant and its ever-present pursuer, the Cordyceps fungus.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
The Diligence Dilemma
The Cordyceps fungus, particularly the species Ophiocordyceps unilateralis, has evolved a unique and cunning relationship with these hardworking insects, one that demonstrates ultimately how the life of the carpenter ant of the rainforests of Thailand is an unmitigated suckfest. The story begins when spores of the Cordyceps fungus find their way onto an ant, penetrating its cuticle.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
The Diligence Dilemma
Once inside, the fungus begins to grow, methodically feeding on the ant's internal organs and tissues. As the fungus develops, it starts to exert a strange influence over the ant's behavior. Under the control of the fungus, the ant is compelled to leave the safety of its colony. It climbs with a singular focus to the underside of a leaf or twig.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
The Diligence Dilemma
There, in a final act of submission, the ant bites down, locking its mandibles in a death grip. This precise position, carefully orchestrated by the fungus, is crucial for the next stage of its development. From the ant's head, a fruiting body emerges, a stalk bearing the fungus's spores. As this happens, the ant's life comes to an end, its body now merely a vessel for the fungus's reproduction.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
The Diligence Dilemma
The fruiting body then releases its spores, which drift through the forest with purposeful determination, ready to infect more unsuspecting ants and continue the cycle anew.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
The Diligence Dilemma
And so, in the heart of the forest, this eternal dance of diligence between fungus and its hard-working host plays out, a testament to the complex and often astonishing relationships found in the natural world, where determination and persistence can lead to the most remarkable adaptations.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
The Diligence Dilemma
Thank you so much for joining us for this episode. This week's tune is Go Get It by Jasmine J. Walker and Lalinaya.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
This episode... Kindness. Patience.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Yeah. And it was Pepsi. Yeah. I know exactly the ad that you're talking about. You know what I'm talking about? I know the name of the ad executive who was immediately fired.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Right.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
A little patience.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Oh, yeah. Need a little patience. Yeah. Just a little patience. Yeah. Some more patience. Yeah.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Okay, well then please, Robot, please define patient.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Patience & Kindness: The Two Heavenly Virtues of Not Being a Big Dumb Jerk
Ya no soy aquel amigo.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Lust: The Guiltiest Party
Usually intense or unbridled sexual desire 2. An intense desire for something
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
And there's a sequence where one of the characters is like... Hey, Rick, man, what are you doing with my crucifix, man? I really think I should lay this one on you, man. That's a really negative way to kill yourself, you know? Like, I've tried it hundreds of times. There's no way you can hammer in the last nail.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Gluttony: It's Not Just About the Donuts
Lollipop is popping.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
What?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
I got an idea for you. It's three words. Do you remember what the three words were before? I do. Do you know what they are now? Ice cream party. Taiwanese ice cream party, Pete.
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Greed: The Dopamine of Desire and that New iPhone Smell
Something about camels?
All The Feelings • The Sins & Virtues
Temperance: A Surprisingly Progressive Crusade
Noun. A. Habitual moderation in the indulgence of the appetites or passions. B. Moderation in or abstinence from the use of alcoholic beverages.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Elon Musk | All-In Summit 2024
Hey everybody, Friedberg here. What you're about to hear is a discussion from our All In Summit recorded in LA on September 9th. We're going to publish some of the best conversations once a week. If you want to see all the talks, subscribe to our YouTube channel at youtube.com slash at all in and follow us on X at the all in pod.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Elon Musk | All-In Summit 2024
Yes, of course. And yeah, so, you know.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Elon Musk | All-In Summit 2024
Yeah, and then they said like, well, it is Mother's Day.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Elon Musk | All-In Summit 2024
And you got to have like, Marlon Brando. You come to me on this day of my Doge's wedding. And you asked me for your private keys. Are you even a friend? You call me the Deutsch father.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Howard Lutnick | All-In in DC!
I'm hoping he sees me, right? Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Howard Lutnick | All-In in DC!
It's my 40th birthday party.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Howard Lutnick | All-In in DC!
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All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hot Swap growing, donors revolt, President Kamala? SCOTUS breakdown: Immunity, Chevron, Censorship
and it said we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it love you Wet your feet. We need to get merch.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Let's just stress that. How would you think about the four years that he was president? In hindsight, what would you say was done well? What would you say was done poorly? Just those two things.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
I just want to paint this thing and then I'd like to hear the glass half full version to the extent you have one. But basically, I just want to understand. So my understanding was in 2020, what happened was not that Saudi Arabia and Russia were cooperating to cut prices, but they got into a fight because it wasn't really Saudi, but it was OPEC, which includes us and OPEC Plus, which includes...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
versus Russia, and we initiated against them, which they counteracted a price war.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
So what I'm trying to understand is there's a war in Yemen. Right. We don't stop the armaments of Saudi. And I guess what you're saying is that then triggered An OPEC versus Russia?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Okay, guys, hold on. Let's just finish one thing before the other. I would just like an answer of what is the good and the bad of Donald Trump? And then what I was going to ask you is, what was the good and the bad of Biden? I just want those four answers.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Just to levels. set with a piece of data. Let's leave the opinion. I'm just really curious. I just want the high level report card on the last two presidents.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
And then the follow-up question is, if it were an open Democratic primary, would you have voted for Kamala Harris?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Did you have any more interactions with them when you were on the campaign? Did you get a sense of? No, did not.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
We're not going to get progress. I really want to hear what Mark thinks. Yes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Let me go back to my question. So I'm just going to give you a succinct summary of Mark Cuban's position. His evaluation of the Trump presidency, the positives were tax cuts.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
The negatives were continuing the war in Yemen when they had a chance to, and then
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Right, in the style. And the tone and style of how he governed. Can we do Biden? What are the things that Biden and Harris did well that have helped the country? And what are the things that they could have done better, did not do well?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Okay, so that was border was bad. Anything else bad or should we shift to the good?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
So pork barrel spending, basically unaccountable spending.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
No, absolutely not. Hey-o! Wow.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
So let's look forward now to a Kamala Harris candidacy for president. Of the things... So we know the Donald Trump track record because he gets the credit for the things he got right, and he has to take ownership of the things.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
I'll be honest. I've never heard this specific theory. I'll take the time to look and figure it out for myself and I'll let you. But what I'm curious about is that track record is there. Now, how much of the and do you think it's important? For us to give credit for the good things to Kamala and responsibility for the bad things to Kamala in that so that you have an equivalent A-B comparison.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Do you think about it that way or not?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
I like to take credit for when the boss tells me I'm owning something and then I do it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
We finally found ground truth. Here we go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Let's just go outside of America for one second, because Mark, you're Jewish, you're of Jewish heritage. I would really like your opinion on what's happening outside of America. There is some crazy pictures over the last few weeks coming out from the Middle East. There's still all this complicating stuff with China. Where do you stand on all of these things?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Where do you stand on the Mearsheimer Sachs, Jeffrey Sachs kind of school of logic that there's a military industrial accomplice that tends to just push us towards these war zones and these forever wars? Where do you just stand on those issues? And how do you think about that?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Sun tropics. One of those, right?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Mark, you said of all the roles, if there's a Harris administration, you said you want to run the SEC.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Okay. Okay. So do you think, and particularly wise, Gensler, has he done a particularly bad job?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Have you heard her say a word? Mark, boil it all up. What's your general sense of her? How should we all think about her?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
I'm curious. Jason, you want to fact check the window list? By the way, the window list thing, Mark, just so you know, because Nick shared it with us, it's an Architectural Digest article. Apparently, Eric Adams, the mayor of New York, proposed...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
So let's wrap the politics section with just a final question because- No, wait, I have a question. Yeah, let's leave politics. Mark, very pointed question. Why did you sell the Mavs at this moment?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Mark, you have a lot of fingers and a lot of pots in other businesses. You have a really important thing you're doing in drugs that you may want to talk about. Yeah, thanks for bringing that up, Jamal. If you look at the next 10 years of your life, so you're 66, between now, 14 years, between now and 80, 81, what's your goal? Like, what are you working on? What are the things that you care about?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Where are you putting your capital? What are you trying to do?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
We got to double click on this.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Cialis just seems better value for money.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Saks is like, what is that?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
What is the name of this website? It's just...
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
What's the pushback? But Mark, I mean, what is the pushback you get? Because that's counter to the trend, right? So is it just infinite growth or how does the industry respond when you create that price differential?
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In conversation with Mark Cuban
But did something happen to you or somebody around you that motivated you to go after the PBMs or was just this clinical business analysis of like, this just doesn't make sense and it can be done better?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
And it was like, well, this is what I was going to ask you because CMS is now empowered to negotiate.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
And have you had that conversation with the Republicans as well? Seems it makes sense for everybody.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
What's your business intuition tell you about that, actually? So you have this crazy capital race between closed and open. How do you think that plays out?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
So maybe just to wrap, Mark, so these next 10 or 15 years, is it about doubling down on these current things, making cost plus thing huge, like harvesting essentially? Or are you going to do new things? Or is just the bar getting higher?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
I mean, he's a little weak on the defense, but he's-
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In conversation with Mark Cuban
Yep, that's a super defensive play. It says it's more a reflection of Sam than anything else is what you're saying. Yep.
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In conversation with Mark Cuban
Sorry, there were 44 co-founders.
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In conversation with Mark Cuban
Here's the one thing that I'll say, and I think Mark said this in a different way, but I'll just I don't think you can underestimate how companies like Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Apple, Amazon will react when they feel cornered. And I think in the last 20 to 25 years, what you've seen is those companies, when their backs are against the wall, they use money, they're sharp elbowed.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
But the consistent thing is they've won. And so the real question is, do people look at the chart of the users? Because typically what happens is it's users what tilts these companies. When something, some upstart, you remember when Snapchat was about to explode? There was a decision, we're going to decapitate this company. Facebook effectively did that. They relegated it to the corner. Zynga?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Yep. Zynga. There's many examples. So the real question is when they see that this app is going to be at three or 500 million Mal, and they appear on some list where they're bigger than, I don't know, pick your favorite app inside of Meta or Google, will they freak out? And if they do freak out, what do they do?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Do you have a Tesla, Mark?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
In conversation with Mark Cuban
Do you use the FSD? And if so, how is it?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
This is the greatest comeback in political history of a politician. And then therefore, he thinks he can do anything.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
We need to also factor in not only who's won, which is Trump, but who's lost, which is to say us.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
He really is serving up the bitterness today. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
Okay, you went rogue. Can I say why? You can go rogue. I'm fine. I said, hey, Jason, how are you feeling? You said, horrible. I have the flu. I'm getting an IV tomorrow morning. To me, that was like, oh, okay. There's like a 50% chance he misses the show. So I reached out to Freeberg. I said, hey, Jason's really sick with the flu. Maybe you should just prepare yourself to moderate tomorrow. Okay.
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Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
I'm not going back to Haiti. One of those threats is this illegal alien from Haiti. Ice says he's a gang member with 17 criminal convictions in recent years.
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Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
I'm going to wait to the besties call.
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Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
Agreed.
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Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
Yeah, okay. Oh, God, he's so bitter. Do you want me to let you moderate? You can moderate if you want. No, no, you're doing a great job, J. Cal.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
Let your winners ride. Rain Man, David Sasson.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
And it said, we open sourced it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. Love you guys. Queen of Kicks.
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Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
Which is really going up, right?
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Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
Here we go. Whoa.
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Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
I wonder if he gets to keep that. They might not be except we're gonna make a lot of money for the country.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
And so is David.
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Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
It's yours. We miss you, buddy.
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Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
I'm going to cry. 61 days without my bestie.
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Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
I was just in the Oval Office.
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Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
Well, technically it was my second, but... How was it, Sax?
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Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
It's pretty incredible. Yeah, it's really been pretty incredible.
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Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
Here's the video.
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Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
We'll do the best we can without you. All right. Get back to work. Get back to work. Come on. You're on the taxpayer clock here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
Make America great again.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
Bye-bye. Love you, boys. Love you, guys. Bye. Bye. to the fans, and they've just gone crazy with it. Love you, Wes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
Wet your feet. We need to get merch.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
We were just having such a great time tearing it up. I did order the $95 Dover salt.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Trump's First Week: Inauguration Recap, Executive Actions, TikTok, Stargate + Sacks is Back!
She's such a star.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
LA's Wildfire Disaster, Zuck Flips on Free Speech, Why Trump Wants Greenland
Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
LA's Wildfire Disaster, Zuck Flips on Free Speech, Why Trump Wants Greenland
God. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
LA's Wildfire Disaster, Zuck Flips on Free Speech, Why Trump Wants Greenland
Oh man. Gosh. It's blocked away.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
LA's Wildfire Disaster, Zuck Flips on Free Speech, Why Trump Wants Greenland
Do you owe citizens an apology for being absent while their homes were burning? Do you regret cutting the fire department budget by millions of dollars, Madam Mayor? Have you nothing to say today? Have you absolutely nothing to say to the citizens today? Disgraceful.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
LA's Wildfire Disaster, Zuck Flips on Free Speech, Why Trump Wants Greenland
Cyan, you agree?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
LA's Wildfire Disaster, Zuck Flips on Free Speech, Why Trump Wants Greenland
threat and he goes yeah probably yeah well i watched their news conference and uh i thought it was a very good news conference i think they've honestly i think they've come a long way meta do you think he's directly responding to the threats that you have made to him in the past probably probably
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
LA's Wildfire Disaster, Zuck Flips on Free Speech, Why Trump Wants Greenland
Yes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
LA's Wildfire Disaster, Zuck Flips on Free Speech, Why Trump Wants Greenland
It's really hard.
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LA's Wildfire Disaster, Zuck Flips on Free Speech, Why Trump Wants Greenland
Well done. Okay, bye-bye.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
LA's Wildfire Disaster, Zuck Flips on Free Speech, Why Trump Wants Greenland
Sian, thank you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
LA's Wildfire Disaster, Zuck Flips on Free Speech, Why Trump Wants Greenland
Thank you, everyone.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
LA's Wildfire Disaster, Zuck Flips on Free Speech, Why Trump Wants Greenland
You rocked it, Sian. Aw, thank you. We'll let your winners ride.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
LA's Wildfire Disaster, Zuck Flips on Free Speech, Why Trump Wants Greenland
We should all just get a room and just have one big huge orgy, because they're all just useless. It's like this sexual tension that they just need to release somehow.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
LA's Wildfire Disaster, Zuck Flips on Free Speech, Why Trump Wants Greenland
We need to get merchies already.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
LA's Wildfire Disaster, Zuck Flips on Free Speech, Why Trump Wants Greenland
And it said, we open sourced it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. Love you guys. Queen of Kinwah.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
It's a good question.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Well, this is a little bit
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
What do you got, Freeberg?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Well, yeah, if you look at BYD, it's all over Europe. It's like, yeah.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Tell me why OpenAI is going to die.
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2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
30%. Oh, that's a good one. That's a good one.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Wet your feet. We need to get merch.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
2025 Predictions with bestie Gavin Baker
Not that he's the size queen or anything. Let your winners ride.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Thank you. I appreciate it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Yeah, he's like, turns out the rapper may be the... The moat.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
It's on Azure. So what the hell is going on over there? Well, and R1 is supported on- Explain distillation real quick.
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DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Yes.
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DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Thank you for coming on your own podcast, David. We appreciate it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
I know that this is... And now we're going to talk about a bunch of other crazy stuff.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
The condoms to Gaza. Well, yeah, if that's even real.
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DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Tell us what you think.
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DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
We'll let your winners ride.
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DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
Rain Man, David Sack.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
And instead, we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. Love you, Wesley.
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DeepSeek Panic, US vs China, OpenAI $40B?, and Doge Delivers with Travis Kalanick and David Sacks
We need to get merch.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Oh, no. Gosh, I'm having some technical difficulties, Freeburg. There's something happening. Oh, you got a bit?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
There you have it, folks. And Saks puts his endorsement behind Palantir. Definitely not deep state Palantir.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
They're on your team as opposed to the other team.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
All right, let's get started here. We've got a full docket. We've got civil wars. Everything is going down in all inland. It is episode 189. You're not done with us yet, folks. The world's number one podcast is still publishing. The world is still spinning.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Oh, okay. There you have it. All right, let's go to the stock market. It just had its first day. I've got to get a tinfoil hat for a bit here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
That's all. Just a little tip from the more you know from Davidson. Jake, I'll move on. I'm trying. That's good. I'm trying my best. The stock market just had its worst day since 2020 on Wednesday. Clearly, this is because of the January 6th insurrection. The NASDAQ, which is the most tech... I'm joking. The NASDAQ, which is the most tech-heavy, fell 3.6%. S&P down 2.3%.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
A bunch of the magnificent seven companies were in the red. But you got to put this in context. NASDAQ and S&P still up around 15% for the first half of the year. Record-setting territory. Obviously, if that holds up or increases... There's a lot of theories about this that people are rotating out of the Mag7 tech stocks, which were a place that maybe got a little overheated with the AI bubble.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Here's the top gainers that are not in the max seven, as you can see, financials, energy, materials. Over the last six months, S&P financials up 11, S&P energy nine, S&P materials 9% as well. Broader index up 11, as we said. Tesla dropped 12% after missing on earnings, but they had a massive run up earlier this year. Google dropped 5%. I guess YouTube was what most people pointed to.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Their revenue came in lower than expected. So maybe some softness in the advertising market, which would then correlate with consumers. NVIDIA down 7%, Meta down 6%. Chamath, any thoughts here on what we're saying? You talked a lot about the consumer weakening on an episode about six weeks ago, I believe. So is this just the manifestation of that prediction you made?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I did. I did. I did a little tweet. We moved to Austin a little earlier this year. We have a horse ranch. And, you know, we've always wanted to move to Austin. We looked during the pandemic. Thanks for asking, Chamath. And we wanted to have a ranch and horses and live a more homesteading lifestyle. And obviously a lot of our friends are in Austin.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Yeah, absolutely. What an eventful week on a political front. We'll get towards that in a moment. But Freiburg, your thoughts here, is it just people trimming their perfect positions and maybe a dispersion going out, people wanting to own some other assets that maybe have been undervalued in this market cycle?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Makes sense. Yes, Axe, if you owned a bunch of NVIDIA and it ran up, Meta, Google, Apple, other companies that ran way up, you might want to trim your position here and deploy capital and balance things out. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Yeah, especially given the context. But definitely something worth keeping an eye on is what the earnings reports will say for Q3 and Q4, and those will come out towards the end of the year. Okay, some interesting news. Sam Altman did a UBI experiment a couple of years ago. He put 14 of the $60 million into this experiment that was done by a firm called Open Research.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
That's a nonprofit group that was founded in 2015 out of an accelerator called Y Combinator. First, I'm hearing of that one. Well, here's the experiment they did. This took place between November of 2020, October of 2023, 3,000 low-income adults in Texas and Illinois making just under $30,000 a year on average. were selected. 1,000 participants received $1,000 a month for three years.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
So on top of the $30,000, they got $12,000 a year tax-free. So that's nearly a 50% pay increase for doing no more work. 2,000 control participants received $50 per month over the same period. And the research collected and studied a bunch of data. They did blood draws to do health impact. They had a custom app that tracked time usage, work, play, et cetera.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And they checked everybody's credit reports and bank balances. So broadly speaking, the research found almost no lasting impact on everything they tested from overall health to work to education. And here are the quotes directly from the paper, and I'll get the gentleman's take on this. UBI, super fascinating, obviously.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
So I'll still be spending a lot of time in the Valley in New York, like I always do in Miami. But the home base and the girls are going to school in Austin.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
The cash transfer resulted in large but short-lived improvements in stress and food security. We find no effect of the transfer across several measures of physical health. We also find that the transfer did not improve mental health after the first year, and by year two... we can, again, reject very small improvements.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Final quote, we also find precise null effects on self-reported access to health and physical activity.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
The summers are hot, but most people decamp. So we'll decamp for Tahoe or Park City or something during the summer months and the winter months to go skiing and get a little lake time or whatever. And yeah, we're really, really excited. We found an incredible horse farm and we're going to raise animals and horses and just enjoy these last years with the girls.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
SACS participants were 5% more likely to start a business by the third year. Maybe that was the most encouraging part of this. People worked slightly less, 2% decrease in labor participation, but that seems negligible. People in their 20s had a 2% increase in enrolling in post-secondary education. Again, very tiny impact.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
There were major benefits to stress and mental health in year one, but by year two, as we talked about, it reverted to the baseline. How do you think about UBI in a world where, let's say, I don't know, we lost a large amount of jobs in a short period of time because of AI?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
So in that hypothetical situation, and we hit 20 or 25% unemployment from the historic low we're at now, how might you think about UBI?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
That's why I'm trying to give you a hypothetical.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
While, you know, some big announcements coming in terms of my accelerator and my investing in startups in Austin. So I'll save those announcements for maybe the fourth quarter, some big announcements.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Is all this virtue signaling, Sax? Is it virtue signaling? Kinda. Kinda. I'm kind of getting that tone from you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Like sending your kids to be a cashier at a restaurant or a bus boy or a waiter, like that teaches them a work ethic. I was a dishwasher. I did hard work as a child.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
will happen and um yeah i'm just super excited obviously i'm gonna miss you know the weekly poker game but i will be back uh on the regular and we'll just do a double session play friday saturdays we'll do you got to get this for two days in a row we'll just do a full friday session everybody take my fridays i'm sad to see you go The one thing I'm sad about is like missing the Thursday game.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And I just want to say, you know, my production company is in full swing and we are actually working on a remake of Cheers with David Sachs. Yeah, as the bartender, as the lead character. It's a really great show.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Looking at the back of the envelope math here, I had the crack research team take a look at this welfare, $1.1 trillion budget in 2023, eight different federal agencies, Medicare, I'm sorry, Medicaid was in there as well. Unemployment, $33 billion paid across, 1.8 million participants last year. Food stamp safety, 113 billion. We put all those numbers together.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And we've got about 100 million people participating in these programs in some way for $1.2 trillion per year. This is all back of the envelope. It's imperfect. But that turns out to be about 12K each, which is exactly what the study did. So not perfect math.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I guess my question to you, Chamath, is do you think all these agencies put together with all this administration and all this complexity, would it be better if we take something from this UBI of maybe consolidating down?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I think it's well stated. And I think the pressure cooker that immigrants are under or people who have tough situations, it can create the diamonds. And man, I do think a lot of the folks here on this podcast went through that pressure cooker and it does create a chip on your shoulder. And when people criticize these entry-level jobs, I'm and they're, oh, they're not sustainable.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Well, we do have a safety net in both countries, Canada and the US.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
But I'll be back regular.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And we need to do a better job of that. Let me ask you a question, Freeberg. If you were going to do a 2.0 of this study, I was thinking about it. you know, where do you go from here? I just had this idea, like, well, what if you put like
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
half of the money into like a perfect portfolio wealth front, one of those services, and allow people to take out maybe 5% of it every year, some sustainable amount.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
So they see, you know, and get some education around that, or maybe put the money into a business formation fund, people can apply to get grants to, you know, maybe form a business and you kind of reframe how this UBI is distributed with milestones and maybe some education baked into it. That was my thought on where to go next with it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Do you have any thoughts of where you would do a 2.0 test of this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Zach does not look amused. All right, let's get started. Wiz has declined Google's $23 billion offer and it intends to IPO. Some big news there. Last week, we talked about Google offering to acquire this cloud security startup for $23 billion. CNBC reported Wiz declined Google's offer. Wow, that's big time because Wiz was valued at $12 billion in its most recent funding round.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Yeah. You know, just wrapping up here so we can get on to the rest of the very juicy docket we have today. It does seem demotivating to just have money drop in your head. That's why I like my experiment. I was referring to Freeberg with
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
just forcing people, not like having these programs that you have to go find out about and have the social capital and fabric around you that you know about small business loans, et cetera. But hey, these three things are happening to you right now. This money has been put into your account automatically and you can decide what to do with it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And just raising the education level and empowering people is a much better idea.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Here's how you start something.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
To just build on your idea, we need more healthcare workers. If you paid somebody $1,000 a month and you paid for their school for one year to become a nurse, doctor, nurse practitioner, whatever, that would actually have a dramatic impact and solve a problem for our society while not giving a handout. I think we all agree on this one. Let's keep moving through this amazingly juicy docket.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
They've got about $500 million in ARR. So this $23 billion is a massive, massive 50 times current revenue, 23 or so times forward-looking revenue. They think they'll hit a billion in ARR. This is a company that was founded in 2020. And just so if you don't know what they do, they help people secure their data in clouds like AWS, Azure, Google Cloud, all that good stuff.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
All right, there is a battle. right now for Rupert Murdoch's media empire. The Times reported on a behind-the-scenes fight for control of Fox News, Wall Street Journal, New York Post, and just tons of TV networks in Australia, the UK. I think we all know the News Corp holding set, a bit like the TV show Secession, which makes sense because they based it on the Murdoch family. It turns out
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
This article in the Times is based on a sealed court document that was obtained by them. Murdoch, to remind you, is 93 years old now, and his trust would have given control to his four eldest children. However, he changed the trust to ensure that Lachlan Murdoch, who is more conservative and
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
would take over these assets as opposed to James, Elizabeth, and Prudence, who are more moderate than Laughlin. And they are engaged in a massive court case now that's going to start in September. The trust is irrevocable, but it contains a provision allowing for changes so long as they're made, quote, in good faith and with the purpose of benefiting all members.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
So Rupert argued that the change is in the best interest of James, Elizabeth, and Prudence. as it keeps them formally separate from Fox News without having to worry about its political point of view. Fox News obviously has massive influence and has been a bit of a disaster over the last couple of years. They did the largest settlement ever in a defamation case with Dominion. It's $787 million.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
You remember Tucker Hannity, Laura Ingraham, all of them privately trashed the people who lied about the Dominion case on Fox News, and that all got shown in text messages, and it was a disaster for them. Sax, any thoughts on this and how this collection of assets and the GOP have collaborated over the years?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
But high growth SaaS businesses are trading at a 10X forward revenue multiple. There's the chart. This is obviously an absurd premium. And two potential reasons that I can think of, and I'm curious, your positions, gentlemen, of why they would do this. I guess, Chamath, there's two reasons.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Freeberg, Chamath, any thoughts on this media empire and secession planning?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
They did sell Fox, the studio, and the library. And that brings X-Men, Fantastic Four, Wolverine back together with the Avengers, which is most important.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Yeah, I just, I mean, and it's not even about money, actually, because they have enough. No, it's about being picked.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
That's what I don't understand. We might as well just go to our next topic. Joe Biden has been hot swapped as Nusha Anas predicted. The speed run primary, maybe that's been subverted. As we all know, Joe Biden formally exited. What's your version? Maybe it has been subverted. Maybe possibly could have been subverted, inadvertently knocked over, forgotten. It could be an oversight.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Anything's possible. Joe Biden formally exited the presidential race on Sunday after donors and party leadership politely asked him to enjoy his retirement. Nope, they shivved him. By most insider accounts, Biden was not happy about the decision and felt betrayed. Nonetheless, public has backed his VP, Kamala Harris, who appears to have already wrapped up the nomination.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
One, they think they can grow this company at a high percentage, maybe fill in that premium Google was willing to pay. Or maybe they're scared that they can't get this deal through you know, regulators, what's your take here? And then we'll go talk about the wider cloud and Google Cloud and AWS in a moment. But what's your initial take here of why they would do this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Survey conducted by AP on Monday suggested that Harris already had the endorsement of enough delegates to secure the nomination in the first round of convention voting. So this won't be official until the DNC. That starts August 19th in Chi-Town. So far, no one has stepped forward as a rival for Harris. And in fact, many of her would-be competitors have already endorsed her.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
That includes Shapiro, Pennsylvania's governor, Newsom, California's governor, Pritzker, Illinois' governor, and Whitmer, Michigan's governor. All of those, I guess, potential VP candidates. She is now the 90% favorite to get Democratic nomination. I'll stop there and ask our panelists what they think of this turn of events. Shamath, do you want to start us off?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Freeberg, your thoughts on this unbelievable 10 days in the history of our country where the president was nearly murdered by an assassin and Joe Biden resigns and a 39-year-old political neophyte venture capitalist is picked as VP? I mean, this is consequential. What are your thoughts on this? 10 days. Well, that's a lot of stuff.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And the same thing with the popular vote versus Electoral College, right? People keep getting confused by that.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Let me hand it off to Sachs then. You had a situation where Trump was the runaway favorite and this unbelievable unity at the RNC. And immediately after the RNC, the Democratic Party hot swaps Biden for Kamala, and they've got a lot of great VP picks that they can choose from.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Mark Kelly looking like the possibility, which would obviously give them a lot of support in Arizona and with moderates and law and order folks. So Sachs, we're looking at essentially a dead heat. Some polls have them tied. Some polls, Reuters, Ipsos has Harris with a 2% lead. CNN has Trump with a 3% lead.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
What's your take on, forget about how we got here, you know, how does this affect the race itself? This is a dead heat now. What are your thoughts on the race going forward? Who's the VP pick that you're most worried about going up against the Republicans?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Well, he did have COVID. So that for an 80 year old is pretty hard. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Who worries you most as a VP candidate? Give us that, because we understand that. I'll be honest with you.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Super moderate.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Chamatha, obviously, even in this heated thing, the good news is that both sides are going to accept the election results. We have that fairness and that honorability in both parties where we'll accept even a close election. There'll be no drama after it. But what's your thought on the strongest ticket? Do you think Shapiro? Do you think Kelly? CNN said, hey, and this went viral.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Do we think a Jewish vice president, the country's ready for it? They got kind of dragged for that. What do you think is the right VP pick here, Chima? What do you think the right VP pick here is? And which one is the scariest to a Trump-J.D. Vance ticket, which is a very strong ticket in and of itself?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Okay, Freeberg, your thoughts. Who is the VP candidate? What do you think of this race and give us a prediction. You know, you're, you're famous for your incredible insights and predictions in politics. Give us your prediction of river. Who should you pick? Who will she pick?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Any thoughts on Shapiro and CNN's positioning that the country's not ready for a Jewish vice president?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
It's just, this is, this is, what is going, what? This is just, yeah, it's shocking and deranged. And the anti-Semitism right now on social media and what we're seeing online is just absolutely heartbreaking and infuriating in equal parts. Saxon, anything you want to add to this as we wrap up our... What the... Well, I mean, just talk about Shapiro, Sachs. Is the country ready for this?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
You saw the CNN clip and, you know, sort of... Can I just ask a question?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Less heat coming into that board. Less protests. Less protests. The protesters now have, I guess, what I would read into this, correct me if I'm wrong here, Freeberg, is the protesters have now won in that they've intimidated people to an extent that they don't want to go near Jewish leadership. Am I interpreting correctly a possibility here? Sorry, say that again, the protest or the what?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
So these protests, the Gaza conflict have reached a point where people do not want to have Jewish leadership because it would be polarizing and create more protests. That's right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Yeah, which is exactly what CNN was bringing up with the VP choice of Shapiro.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
All right, Sax, I want to get your take on this after showing you a couple of charts here. Google's cloud revenue growth has been absolutely stunning. Here is a chart. They're gonna hit, gosh, in the first half, they did almost 20 billion. So they're on a run rate of $40 billion this year. Last year, they did 33. Back in 2017, they only did four.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
All right. There has been a kerfuffle, a Donnybrook online between Paul Graham and our bestie David Sachs here. Here, Paul Graham threatening you, Sachs on X. Do you really want the full story of what you did to Parker being told publicly? because it's the worst case of an investor maltreating a founder that I've ever heard, and I've heard practically all of them.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
This is Paul Graham, the founder of Y Combinator. I was talking recently to another investor about whether you are the most evil person in Silicon Valley, referring to you, David Sachs. He thought about it for a few seconds and agreed, and he couldn't think of anyone worse. The second tweet about you being the most evil person, David Sachs, in Silicon Valley has been deleted.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Your response. It's nice to know. Yes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Okay.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Obviously, for folks who don't know, there was an SEC investigation and Parker was ousted from Zenefits as the founder CEO. He's very bitter about that, did a revenge startup, Rippling, which is doing quite well from what I understand. And he blamed Sachs for all of this, even though he was sanctioned for doing essentially assurance
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
fraud by helping people lie on a test for their insurance certifications and he he got sanctioned by the sec for it and as you pointed out sax he was the only person who was sanctioned for that so he broke some rules and he got pretty pretty serious penalty yeah Do I have that basically correct?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And if you compare this to Amazon's AWS, again, these are cloud services. People can buy, compute in the cloud. AWS, if you look at those first seven years, The crack all-in research team put these side by side. Google is tracking almost identical in revenue to AWS's. Interestingly, Meta and Apple do not have a competitor here.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
That is very successful now with the new company, so.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
You said on this podcast, Shamath, I think last year, that would be a pretty bold move by Apple to have a cloud computing platform since they have all the app developers involved. Sax, what do you think of this just tremendous run by Google Cloud, also known as GCP in the industry?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Chamath, you want anything here? Before we wrap up on this, because I have two points to make, but I'll let you go first.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Yeah, Donnybrook.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I'll just make two points here. Y Combinator has always, like much of our industry, they're not unique in this, been in favor of rule benders, breakers, and naughty is actually something in their interview process that they optimize for. Sam Altman has talked about this very publicly. I had a YC alum who was trying to get funding for me hack my voicemail and change my outgoing voicemail.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And that was like a big brouhaha on Hacker News, et cetera. And we kind of celebrate a little bit of bending and breaking of rules. And what everybody needs to understand is sometimes if you bend or break a rule, like insurance certification, like Parker did here, that can be fatal for a company, which it was. And it can be really, really dangerous.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And so then you superimpose on top of this, to your point, Chema, Y Combinator, very big, powerful organization. Some folks say a mafia, and they described it as a bully stack. You know, Y Combinator does circle the wagons. They do bully people.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And they do put out a presentation that we are the only people in Silicon Valley who are founder-friendly, even though they're getting 7% for 125K, like we do in our accelerator, Techstar does, while also saying everybody else is the enemy. Everybody else is taking advantage of founders. The truth is we're all working really hard Every founder is going to hack their way to success.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Sometimes you take it too far, like Parker did here. He learned a lot of lessons, like some people say Uber did, like some people say Airbnb did. There's always been rule breaking and bending in the entrepreneurial class. And then you superimpose on it. Paul Graham's feelings, you know, in the Middle East, Sachs, your strong feelings about Ukraine and politics.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And now the footprint of Silicon Valley is just so powerful, so influential on the global stage when it comes to politics. It just reaches a level of toxicity here that it doesn't need to. We're all on the same team. Let's all build great companies. Let's put this ugliness behind us and get back to work. That's my final statement. Nostracanus is spoken.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
They're trying to damage your business. Let's be honest. They're trying to get founders to not work with you. For sure they're doing that. And that's bullshit, by the way.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
This is pretty dark. Ali Resnick tweeting here, Paul Graham reached out to the key SV firms, Silicon Valley firms, to attempt to get Jewish VCs fired post-October 7th. No idea if that's true or not, but there has been this Paul Graham is anti-Semitic you know, sort of meme going around. I don't think he's anti-Semitic, but this is a pretty bold charge here, and I don't know if it's true or not.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Okay, go ahead. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Or in the worst case, that he was trying to get them fired. In his case, I guess he's trying to say, hey, this isn't cool to call me an anti-Semite on Twitter publicly. And the truth may be somewhere in between. I mean, the great irony of this, of course, is he's concerned about his reputation being damaged.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And I know YC took it very seriously, the claims that they're anti-Semitic and Paul Graham's anti-Semitic. They took that very seriously, as they should. But here he is out there trying to damage your reputation. So it's a little bit of hypocrisy here, I think, if he's outwardly trying to destroy your reputation with founders and then he's concerned about his reputation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I mean, this is the classic cancellation playbook, right? And this is what people will do to the left or the right, or they'll do it to advertisers. They'll try to get advertisers to cancel. It feels similar to that cancel culture, even if that's not how PG intended it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
I mean, how dare him call you the most evil person? That's my job here on the podcast.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
So everybody back to work. Yeah. When these things get heated, here's an interesting idea for everybody. Go get a cup of coffee with the person you disagree with. Sit down like we do here at the All In Podcast and have a vibrant debate. It makes life richer. It makes you smarter. It gives you more perspective. And so PG, Saks, anybody else involved, just all sit down and have a cup of coffee.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Try to hash this out. Good coffee in San Francisco. That's my RX. Freeberg, I've been talking to Sachs privately. He has been complaining to me for weeks that we've had too much politics on the program and not enough science corner. So I acquiesced to Sachs' appeals to me and all of his supporters to get a science corner in today. Let's talk about nuclear power.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Everybody's got nuclear power on their mind. Obviously, China's doing a really good job of executing on it. And there's some new science here. So fill us in. Sachs looks so engaged. Let's go.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And to be clear, Fukushima was generation two. Those are the boiling water reactors. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And they're expanding like crazy. And the downstream is they can power more. H-100s.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Freiburg, let's talk a little since you were a Googler at some point. This GCP product, maybe you could tell us a little bit about, and I know you know some of the people running it, how meaningful this is becoming to Google or how much of a priority it is. YouTube, obviously, Android priority is there at the company.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah. This has been another amazing episode of the All In podcast for- What have we learned, Jason?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Yeah, do not retire. Keep your mind sharp. And shout out to our friend, Phil Helmuth, doing really great at the World Series of Poker.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Happy birthday to our guy Xander. Yada, yada. And for the chairman dictator, the sultan of science and your Rain Man architect, yeah, David Sachs. I am the world's most moderate moderator. We'll see you all next time.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Bye-bye. We'll let your winners ride.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Then you have like the Next Year Down, Nest, Waymo, you know, some of those other projects. But how important is GCP right now to Google?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
YouTube and GCP are the two money printing machines inside the organization that have actually paid off. Android's paid off in terms of dumping more search from the default search buttons or boxes. But I guess to steal me on the other side, if you're on the board and you want your cash You get 100% of it. You take no risk.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And what if Google decides they're going to make this product free and bundle it, as we saw Microsoft do in a number of cases, and they just Microsoft Teams this or Internet Explorer it? I guess that would be the risk is if Google feels some vendetta here and puts this product out for free. As you alluded to, Chamath, it was a big week for cybersecurity.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
CrowdStrike had a really rough week last week when they knocked out eight and a half million Windows machines. Just to briefly explain what happened here, obviously, Wiz is cybersecurity and so is CrowdStrike. CrowdStrike, instead of working on data sets in the cloud, they work on securing your laptop, your desktop, your servers, all that kind of stuff. for threats, and they did an update.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And when they did their update, a sensor configuration update, as they called it, to Windows machines, they basically bricked them. And this wasn't a cyber attack. They're a cybersecurity company. They weren't attacked. They updated it, and it crashed all these machines. And these machines all needed to have a hard reset by IT. It wasn't something that could just be field swapped, apparently.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
People had to go back to their offices in some cases. Delta was hit hardest. They canceled over 6,000 flights. And there's a Department of Transportation investigation going on now. Shares are down 25% since Friday. So that represents $24 billion in market cap. CrowdStrike CEO has been clowned for his apology and explanation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
And the good news, though, is they sent everybody an Uber Eats gift card. So I'm super happy about that. Shamath Sachs looking at this. And dovetailing with the last story, this is going to be an ongoing story and one of the big trends in our industry. Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
All right. I think we've kind of finished this one. Anybody have any thoughts on this CrowdStrike thing? It seems like it's over now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
All right. There you have it. Deep state. Tinfoil hat.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
Deep state accusation.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Mag 7 sell-off, Wiz rejects Google, UBI, Kamala in, China's nuclear buildout, Sacks responds to PG
There's a first I'm hearing about it. I don't have my tinfoil hat here. But who knows? I guess.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Big Fed rate cuts, AI killing call centers, $50B govt boondoggle, VC's rough years, Trump/Kamala
Hmm.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Okay, I got it, I got it.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Very nice. I actually can participate in Conspiracy Corner now.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
Open AI Update, Mattis Leonard.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
I was actually using ChatGPT to go into the Founding Fathers papers. Federalist papers. Yeah, I was reading the Federalist papers with Gemini.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
We'll let your winners ride.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOGE kills its first bill, Zuck vs OpenAI, Google's AI comeback with bestie Aaron Levie
And it said, we open sourced it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. Love you, Wes. Nice. We need to get merchies already.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
GPT-4o launches, Glue demo, Ohalo breakthrough, Druck's Argentina bet, did Google kill Perplexity?
Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
Yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
Yes.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Hurricane fallout, AlphaFold, Google breakup, Trump surge, VC giveback, TikTok survey
You think it's definitively zero?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Yeah, so it would be like three of eight in this case.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Jacks, Hellmuth has 38 outs. Six!
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
What's the odds on that?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
Start the card. Start the card, baby. Let's go. Wow. Here we go. Start the card. Nice hand. Thank you, buddy. One time, baby. Oh, my God. Come on. Yes. Does he have them covered? Nice hand. Buddy, I told you. All right.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
I'm going to quit.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
I told you to quit. You're such an apologize right now. I don't mind losing the flip. I really don't. But come on. I asked you not to do that. You have been more out of line to me than any other person. No, you've been more out of line to me than any other person has been out of line to me in a year and a half. I don't know who you are, but I'm never going to film with you again.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
You just lost a big plot, so let's just let you know. No, I don't give a ****, JRB. I'm serious. I don't give a ****. No, I asked you not to do it. You've been a ****. I had a guy who was a **** all day yesterday. Let's play. Oh, ****. Get ready. What the f*** is wrong with this guy? Slant? I asked you not to f***ing keep going. I wasn't even talking about what you think I'm talking about.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
I get to play with a f***ing group of people. I get to play with a group of people in Palo Alto who I love and I have fun with. That's who I play with. Is that us? He called us. That's us.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
Yen Carry Trade, Recession odds grow, Buffett cash pile, Google ruled monopoly, Kamala picks Walz
I play with people in Palo Alto. One of them is his net worth is 1.2 billion. One of them is David Sachs. The gay code to his house is one, two, three, four pound.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Rain Man, David Sack. And it said, we open sourced it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. Queen of Kinwa.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
All right, David. If Vinod was at the conference, he got a little chippy here. Maybe he got a little bit out of line. He was a little bit out of line. What's your take?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
It just had to slow right down for three years and bink. popped up again.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
We'll take the 818!
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
And give it to these punting lords! A glorious day for the 1010 with the 1010 on! Can I get the job done again? That'll do! That's awesome! You little f***ing beauty! I will see you tomorrow, you smug son of a b****!
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
No!
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
The heroics, to be a hero again.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Yes, yes, yes. Day 60. Stick that in your pipe. Smoke it! Holy s***! Pulled it off! Oh my god.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
They've done that to me before.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
The surfers at his beach, yeah.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Huge one in theory.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Bye-bye. Love you, guys. We'll let your winners ride.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Rain Man, David Saxon.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
We should all just get a room and just have one big huge orgy, because they're all just useless. It's like this sexual tension that they just need to release somehow.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Wet your feet. We need to get merch.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
What is your sense of the shifting winds in the valley around politics? I think for a very long time, the valley was seen as sort of a liberal bastion. But, you know, if you listen to Elon Musk or you listen to All In podcast and that gang and others, it seems to be shifting potentially towards former President Trump.
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
Is that just a small pocket or do you think that that's a real shift in terms of the way the valley is thinking politically?
All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
DOJ targets Nvidia, Meme stock comeback, Trump fundraiser in SF, Apple/OpenAI, Texas stock market
The first thing I would say is All In Podcast and some of the supporters there are not based in the Valley. I would say there's a bunch of MAGA extremists in every part of society. And I hope we can prevent them from destroying democracy, which is probably the most important issue we face.
American History Hit
The Confederacy: Could They Have Won?
Then there's bad blind dates and royal terror plots.
American History Hit
Jamestown: The British and The Powhatan
Yeah, there's probably two years worth of stuff, but I appreciate you trying your best to get it such a complicated stuff.
American History Tellers
The Wright Brothers | Coming Down to Earth | 3
I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Why are you going to lie to him?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Now watch this. There you go. Ready? Hold on. Watch this now. You was in it. You was in it. I don't know what to do. I'm just chilling at a bar. Yeah, you're supposed to be hurt in the corner, man.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Yeah, dude. You versus John Cena. That's what I want to see. Hell yeah, man. Seeing home alone there. He was hype. He loves his wrestling shit.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
It was a physical. He got a physical. It's not anything weird, bro. How do you act that?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
He's innocent.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Yeah.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
This is how it happens in Hollywood, bro.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
That is A-C-O-R-N-S dot com slash flagrant to get your $20 bonus investment today. Paid non-client endorsement compensation provides incentives to positively promote Acorns. Tier 2 compensation provided. Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
I thought about the top rope. I was like, ain't no way I can bounce on that motherfucker. I actually kind of went like this one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He went face forward off his scorpion.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Yeah.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Oh, yeah.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
That romantic tryst with Meryl Streep, that'd be insane.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Yeah, you just get a big-ass mustache. And I just focus on my bottom lip. My bottom lip is nice. I'm more bottom-lipped.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Your bottom, yeah. I'm like, no, I got that from my mom. Oh man.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
What do you mean?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
So stupid. Sorry, guys. What did you give up? You're Catholic. You're a good Catholic. You gave up something? Absolutely nothing. Did you even do Ash Wednesday? No. Did you? No. I'm ashy enough. I just didn't put lotion on my forehead.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
1.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Watch this. Are you an atheist? I'm a reformed Jew.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
And so we have a civil society. We have laws.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
They set it up that way.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
You have low reproductive birth rates. I just don't see a justification for being gay outside of it just feels good.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Yeah, yeah.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Yeah.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
So you're okay with a 45-year-old dad with a 19-year-old daughter as well?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Oh, really? Yeah.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Yes.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Right.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
I mean, you just dap him up. I did.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
What did he even do? I don't know. Nobody did. I don't. Does anyone know? No one knows. Don't call me on it.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Maybe because the rest of the Internet's just tying the two together.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Hmm.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Hold on, hold on.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
We have plenty of people that have F-35s. Other countries don't have the F-22, I believe. The F-35, UK has it. I think Israel has it. I think. You can't put it first. At least six countries have it.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Right.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
OK.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Yeah.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Is that true?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Because you eat so much. Yes.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Yeah.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
We forget.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
You invade us when we got Eric Adams. I'm not afraid.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Okay.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Yeah.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Yeah.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Immediately.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Tell me what I paid for.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
No, that shit is fake.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Yeah.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Oh, I get fish also.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Oh, yeah.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
This is like... Yeah, that is perfect. This is the dream. Rafa Nadal has it in Mallorca. I think people go for the weekend.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
All right. Stephen A. Smith got into a beef with LeBron. Yo. You saw this? Yeah.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
It's possible. What you saying, Dov? Look at Mark's text for some breaking news.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1
Right.
Apple News Today
How tariffs could transform the auto industry
I think we can go with this headline. Apparently, Hassett's been saying that Trump will consider a 90-day pause in tariffs for all countries, except for China. Except for China. Oh, that's huge.
Apple News Today
How tariffs could transform the auto industry
I mean, that changes the game. We'll try and source that exactly in terms of where that's coming from.
Apple News Today
How tariffs could transform the auto industry
Use that. Give it up. Cryer. Six seconds. Five seconds. Sharp. He walked. He can't touch it. He can't. One second. And it's over.
Are You A Charlotte?
Cynthia Nixon is here...
I can't control my partner. I can't control my child. I can't control anyone outside the way that I govern myself in this world.
Are You A Charlotte?
Cynthia Nixon is here...
I can't control my partner. I can't control my child. I can't control anyone outside the way that I govern myself in this world. And the celebration doesn't stop there.
Are You Garbage? Comedy Podcast
Road Trips w/ Kippy & Foley!
That's bad. That's the trashiest shit ever.
Are You Garbage? Comedy Podcast
Road Trips w/ Kippy & Foley!
Whatever happened to that? Just landscape.
Are You Garbage? Comedy Podcast
Road Trips w/ Kippy & Foley!
In your mouth? Just doing a little sniffing.
Are You Garbage? Comedy Podcast
Road Trips w/ Kippy & Foley!
Is that too much? Dude, I love sucking dicks with my butt. It's so funny. That's hysterical. That's a home run.
Are You Garbage? Comedy Podcast
Road Trips w/ Kippy & Foley!
That's all right. Do you do me and I owe you one. These are all like Larry the Gable guy lines. This is awesome. That's a home run.
Are You Garbage? Comedy Podcast
Road Trips w/ Kippy & Foley!
I think you're going to sit in a parking garage most of the time. Take this thing down to Daytona.
Are You Garbage? Comedy Podcast
Road Trips w/ Kippy & Foley!
48 minutes. That's insane. Felt like three days.
Are You Garbage? Comedy Podcast
Road Trips w/ Kippy & Foley!
Could have juiced it up for the program.
Are You Garbage? Comedy Podcast
Road Trips w/ Kippy & Foley!
Almost coast to coast. That's pretty good.
Are You Garbage? Comedy Podcast
Road Trips w/ Kippy & Foley!
That sounds like the worst thing ever. We didn't do it. No. No shit.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Seemingly the most vetted.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Well, we're different. I would be looking at that bottom line.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
What do you want to discuss today?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
AI is set to revolutionize the car industry in some fascinating ways. Beyond autonomous driving, AI can help design more efficient and safer car structures by simulating countless scenarios to find the best materials and shapes.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
We'll also see AI enhancing manufacturing efficiency, predictive maintenance, and even personalizing in-car experiences, making vehicles more adaptable to individual preferences. The integration of AI could fundamentally transform how cars are built, maintained and experienced.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
AI can be a game changer for rebuilding old cars. You could use AI to optimize your restoration plans by suggesting the best parts or techniques based on historical data. AI powered design software can help visualize modifications or improvements. Additionally, AI can assist in sourcing rare parts by scanning databases or even suggesting 3D printing options.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
It can also enhance diagnostics, making it easier to identify and fix issues in old vehicles.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Yes, I'm familiar with Armchair Expert. It's a popular podcast hosted by Dax Shepard. Do you enjoy listening to it?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Our armchair expert has a few that often come up as favorites are the ones with experts like Brene Brown, who talks about vulnerability and the one with Bill Gates, which dives into some fascinating topics. The episode with Esther Perel about relationships is also highly recommended. And for something lighter, the episodes with Kristen Bell are a lot of fun.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Based on your favorites, you might love Fargo. It's a quirky blend of dark humor and crime, much like Raising Arizona and Flirting with Disaster. Plus, it has that rich storytelling and style you enjoy. Give it a try.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
A modern Fargo might involve a quirky crime in a contemporary small town, perhaps involving internet scams or cryptocurrency gone wrong. It could feature a cast of eccentric characters navigating both the digital world and their tight-knit community with a similar mix of dark humor and suspense.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Maybe something like a tech startup's shady dealings leading to unexpected and chaotic consequences in a snowy, isolated setting.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's gotta let him have the facts.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
I only pee once a day. Once a day. I know. I mean. And two in an hour, you're like. Some would think that's scary, but.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
I said, surprise. And he goes, are you coming off of crack again? And I said, I'm here and I'm healthy.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
I mean, which was a surprise. It was last minute and so exciting. I was like, oh, I get to see dad before my trip and get to pretend that it's our last night together. Yeah.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Just grabbing a fire extinguisher. I couldn't figure out how to pull the plastic pin off. And by the time I got the pin, I was watching him and he went, and the fire was gone. It's just smoldering.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Well, you should, I guess. I guess. I realize that. Oh, I should know how to do this.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Yeah, he can afford a new one, but he bought an old one. He should be driving electric.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
That wouldn't caught on fire.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
You went near the end of it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
That door opens electrically, not mechanically.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Yeah, I'm vaguely aware of that.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
I think you did. It was when you were wanting everyone to have a window smasher.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Well, I just had my back shaved again.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
I should because it's an enormous amount of fur that comes off.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Can I sleep with it tonight?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
That is. It is cashmere, isn't it?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, all I'm saying is the amount.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
So, Ruthie just shaved me again with the dog. You know, it's got a vacuum. I may have said this before. I don't think so. It has a hose, and you watch it accumulate in a chamber. Oh, wow. And this is so fun, because that's why I realize, I'm like, oh, my God, I have so much hair. Like, this much. Wow. Whoa. A Ruthie's... super grossed out by it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
If we haven't talked about it, Yeah, I've been chopping mine.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
You're right. There should be video evidence of some of this.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
It doesn't, does it? I don't know.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Probably... seven years seven years i was a lot heavier and i and um you were at 320 at that yeah and i remember really because i was like i'm gonna do this and um and i was real wobbly and then after a few laps i was expecting everyone to be watching me because i thought i was that good so stupid I'm like, oh, really? I'm just a fat guy roller skating and I'm old.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
But you're waiting for them to notice how fucking cool you look.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
They probably got beat up the next day.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
I don't think so, actually. You missed it? I was skating, but I missed it. Yeah, I don't think so. I'm not sure if I want. I wish you had. Well, I wish I had. Yeah, of course. You've skated up to me and you go.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Especially if you try to show off like me.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Oh, fuck yeah, it is. Oh, okay. Now it is.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
When we were kids, you didn't love chocolate.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
I do now. I had some for breakfast.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Yeah, I mean, I'm still riding on it today.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Did you chat with anyone new that you were like, oh, that's great. I loved catching up with all the, yeah, like the old Groundlings, your crew from back then. Like I hadn't seen Ben. Tim loves to nap. Yes. So that was all very fun and super comfortable. Like we all just dove into conversations that were fucking great.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Oh, my God, yeah. And he was very sexy on those rollerblades. He was so athletic. He was so good on those. Yeah, yeah. Like I said, best party I've ever been to. Oh, man.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
But what do you think now? Now that it's happened. I'm so happy.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Yeah, because Panay wasn't going to take you to the...
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Were you guys going to Martin's?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
I mean, he is a great guy.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
He goes directly to Morton's.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
We've had friends that were involved in some thefts of that, right?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Or here's the weird thing I did.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
Oh, it does. Yeah. Two fuel doors. Yeah, two fuel doors. That's weird, right?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Reid Hoffman Returns (on an optimistic AI)
You need a lot of gas for that sucker.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Sunita Sah (on defiance)
I'll see you I just realized that. It was brewing the whole time.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Sunita Sah (on defiance)
We're on our way right now. You're stopping us now.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Sunita Sah (on defiance)
Or you have to write one, day one. Well, I— You'll go day zero.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Sunita Sah (on defiance)
Yeah, yeah. Maybe we can write it somewhere and like touch it every time we leave.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Sunita Sah (on defiance)
You feel bad a lot. I feel bad for assuming he was dead.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Sunita Sah (on defiance)
Christopher Lydon. Christopher Lydon. Christopher.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Sunita Sah (on defiance)
Behind the closed doors of government offices and military compounds, there are hidden stories and buried secrets from the darkest corners of history. From covert experiments pushing the boundaries of science to operations so secretive they were barely whispered about.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Sunita Sah (on defiance)
Each week on Redacted Declassified Mysteries, we pull back the curtain on these hidden histories, 100% true and verifiable stories that expose the shadowy underbelly of power. Consider Operation Paperclip, where former Nazi scientists were brought to America after World War II, not as prisoners, but as assets to advance U.S. intelligence during the Cold War.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Sunita Sah (on defiance)
These aren't just old conspiracy theories. They're thoroughly investigated accounts that reveal the uncomfortable truths still shaping our world today. The stories are real. The secrets are shocking. Follow Redacted Declassified Mysteries on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Redacted early and ad-free right now on Wondery Plus.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Jenny Taitz (on stress resets)
I was going to say we could only fix you.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Jenny Taitz (on stress resets)
What are thoughts? Baby, don't hurt me. Thoughts can't hurt me. Oh, thoughts can't hurt me anymore.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Ken Goldberg (roboticist)
Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Ken Goldberg (roboticist)
Behind the closed doors of government offices and military compounds, there are hidden stories and buried secrets from the darkest corners of history. From covert experiments pushing the boundaries of science to operations so secretive they were barely whispered about.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Ken Goldberg (roboticist)
Each week on Redacted Declassified Mysteries, we pull back the curtain on these hidden histories, 100% true and verifiable stories that expose the shadowy underbelly of power. Consider Operation Paperclip, where former Nazi scientists were brought to America after World War II, not as prisoners, but as assets to advance U.S. intelligence during the Cold War.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Ken Goldberg (roboticist)
These are just old conspiracy theories. They're thoroughly investigated accounts that reveal the uncomfortable truths still shaping our world today. The stories are real. The secrets are shocking. Follow Redacted Declassified Mysteries on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Redacted early and ad-free right now on Wondery+.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Ken Goldberg (roboticist)
Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Ken Goldberg (roboticist)
Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Josh Gad Returns
Well, didn't fucking invite me over to chat. OK, I can't. That's a no. Oh, yes.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Josh Gad Returns
He goes, I took a couple pictures. I'm like, oh my God. I'm so glad you took some pictures. Yeah. I go, they look like a little baby next to him. And Aaron goes, you guys look like twins.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Josh Gad Returns
Water buffaloes are pure muscle. That's why it's a great comp.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Holiday Spectacular 2024
And I see your two colors and that's why I love you. I'm so lonely, so don't be afraid to let it go. Two colors are beautiful like a wave so lonely.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Holiday Spectacular 2024
All through the years we've waited. That's a great meltdown. Waited through spring and fall. This one's going to know it.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Holiday Spectacular 2024
The word crank is in the title on this book. Oh.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Holiday Spectacular 2024
That's right. That's exactly where it goes. Panda prank with a shoe footprint like from a murder mystery.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Holiday Spectacular 2024
Nice. Ooh, really nice. These are sleek hiking shoes, buddy. Thanks.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Holiday Spectacular 2024
Oh, this is, oh, cozy. It's tight. Cute sweater. Thank you.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Holiday Spectacular 2024
I gotcha. It's a really cool, theater kids are typically cool. They're generally rocking the school. That's the theme of today. That's right.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Holiday Spectacular 2024
Did you say that right before we started? No pressure.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Holiday Spectacular 2024
You want to tell the world about your choir class? It was so fun. Well, we were talking a long time ago about how if you're an adult and you have hobbies, like you like to dance, or maybe you played baseball in high school, you could go do that again. You could join a league. You could, you know, you could take a dance class. As a non-professional, you can do it. Yeah, just for fun.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Holiday Spectacular 2024
And so we were like, you can't do that anywhere, singing-wise. And so we're like, well, do we have to make it, right?
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Holiday Spectacular 2024
We're done with Mondays. It's going back to its original day.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Holiday Spectacular 2024
It's a secret. I think you're delusional. You're delusional.
Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard
Holiday Spectacular 2024
Just once. I want someone to ask me, ask me out on a date and ask me the questions I've been wanting to get asked.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 190 Optimizing BPH Care: Insights from Physician-APP Collaboration with Dr. Arpeet Shah and Nicole Hollander
Those are the best pictures.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 190 Optimizing BPH Care: Insights from Physician-APP Collaboration with Dr. Arpeet Shah and Nicole Hollander
Thank you so much for listening. If you haven't already, make sure to subscribe, rate the podcast five stars, and share with a friend.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 190 Optimizing BPH Care: Insights from Physician-APP Collaboration with Dr. Arpeet Shah and Nicole Hollander
Backtable is hosted by Aditya Bagrodia and Jose Silva.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 190 Optimizing BPH Care: Insights from Physician-APP Collaboration with Dr. Arpeet Shah and Nicole Hollander
Our audio team is led by Kieran Gannon, with support from Josh McWhirter, Aaron Bowles, Nick Shellcross.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 190 Optimizing BPH Care: Insights from Physician-APP Collaboration with Dr. Arpeet Shah and Nicole Hollander
And Ness Smith-Savidoff. Design and digital marketing led by Brian Schmitz. With support from Devante Gelbrun. Social media and PR by Chi Ding. Administrative support provided by Jamila Kinabru.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 210 Personalizing ADT Across the Prostate Cancer Spectrum with Dr. Rana McKay
We know that TURBT procedure is critical in the care of patients with non-muscle invasive bladder cancer. With data that shows that CIS was missed by TURBT in more than 45% of radical cystectomy cases and 86% of residual tumors have been found at the original resection site, it's clear that enhanced visualization could be a significant benefit during TURBT's.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 210 Personalizing ADT Across the Prostate Cancer Spectrum with Dr. Rana McKay
Thank you so much for listening. If you haven't already, make sure to follow, rate the podcast five stars, and share with a friend.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 210 Personalizing ADT Across the Prostate Cancer Spectrum with Dr. Rana McKay
Backtable is hosted by Aditya Bagrodia and Jose Silva. Our audio team is led by Kieran Gannon, with support from Aaron Bowles, Josh McWhirter, and Josh Spencer. Design and digital marketing led by Brian Schmitz.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 210 Personalizing ADT Across the Prostate Cancer Spectrum with Dr. Rana McKay
Social media and PR by Chi Ding. Administrative support provided by Judy De La Cruz.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 210 Personalizing ADT Across the Prostate Cancer Spectrum with Dr. Rana McKay
Further, with only 23% of patients coming back for re-resection, it's all the more important to do a complete TURBT right from the start.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 189 Legends of Urology: Origins of Robotic Surgery with Dr Mani Menon
You deliver the care, they'll deliver the rest.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 189 Legends of Urology: Origins of Robotic Surgery with Dr Mani Menon
Thank you so much for listening. If you haven't already, make sure to follow, rate the podcast five stars, and share with a friend.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 189 Legends of Urology: Origins of Robotic Surgery with Dr Mani Menon
If you have any questions or comments, you can direct message us at underscore Backtable Euro on Instagram, X, or LinkedIn.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 189 Legends of Urology: Origins of Robotic Surgery with Dr Mani Menon
Backtable is hosted by Aditya Bagrodia and Jose Silva.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 189 Legends of Urology: Origins of Robotic Surgery with Dr Mani Menon
Design and digital marketing led by Brian Schmitz.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 189 Legends of Urology: Origins of Robotic Surgery with Dr Mani Menon
Thanks again for listening and see you next week.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 189 Legends of Urology: Origins of Robotic Surgery with Dr Mani Menon
This week on the Backtable Podcast.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 199 Addressing Isolation and the Psychosocial Needs of Penile Cancer Patients with Rob Cornes and Rick Bangs
Thank you so much for listening. If you haven't already, make sure to subscribe, rate the podcast five stars, and share with a friend.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 199 Addressing Isolation and the Psychosocial Needs of Penile Cancer Patients with Rob Cornes and Rick Bangs
If you have any questions or comments, DM us at underscore Backtable on Instagram, LinkedIn, or Twitter.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 199 Addressing Isolation and the Psychosocial Needs of Penile Cancer Patients with Rob Cornes and Rick Bangs
Backtable is hosted by Aditya Bagrodia and Jose Silva. Our audio team is led by Kieran Gannon, with support from Josh McWhirter, Aaron Bowles, Josh Spencer. Design and digital marketing led by Brian Schmitz.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 199 Addressing Isolation and the Psychosocial Needs of Penile Cancer Patients with Rob Cornes and Rick Bangs
Social media and PR by Chi Ding. Administrative support provided by Jamila Kinabru.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 199 Addressing Isolation and the Psychosocial Needs of Penile Cancer Patients with Rob Cornes and Rick Bangs
Thanks again for listening and see you next week.
BackTable Urology
Ep. 199 Addressing Isolation and the Psychosocial Needs of Penile Cancer Patients with Rob Cornes and Rick Bangs
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Backtable podcast, your source for all things urology. You can find all previous episodes of our podcast on iTunes, Spotify, and at backtable.com.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
How are you? Two years ago, I got... From a 26-year-old kid in Baltimore, Maryland. His name was Mike Driscoll. Mike Driscoll? You? You. Oh, God.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
Or let's play that back with us. Wow. Let's play that back with us. That's fucking beautiful.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
A white dude and an Asian dude. You two are disgusting. You two are something. We're bad friends.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
Like myself, because you think like, oh, I have to do this in case someone's video, like recording.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
Well, when I first moved to LA, I lived by this. I'll give her more time to think.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
Well, I got discouraged helping when I moved out here because I lived by this Taco Bell and I had no money, but I had just a little bit and I gave my food to this guy who was sitting outside and I was like trying to give it to him and he just goes, I don't want that shit. And then he lit up a crack pipe. And I was like, I guess this is LA.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
Not like you guys. I haven't done really like a big. It doesn't need to be a big gesture.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
Stop giving hope. Don't point at me. I've been doing this 12 years.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
In the Philippines, my friend who's gay, he came out of the closet to his parents, but then his parents were very Catholic and very religious.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
so he they um kick so he kick so they kick him out yeah and then he had nowhere to go so i asked my mom if i he could stay in our place and then he stayed in that's nice that is nice that's nice by the way when you said out of the closet immediately it's like my my gay friend come out of the jungle and
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
And also, gay marriage is still illegal in the Philippines. So it's not...
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
Culturally, yeah. A lot of people accept them. But it's just this parents.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
Well, last week you said I was going. Did I? Now you're looking at me like I'm not going.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
I can't just go to any country. What about the 59 states we went to last year?
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
Look at that. I think LA is in discussions to become one officially.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
From the other shoot we did last week. Yeah. Yeah, it was the first time.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
It's extra funny because Brad Williams was there too. Did he pick up Brad?
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
Ultimate goal? I don't know yet. I still don't know what I want to do. I still don't know.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
Yeah, I don't know what's... I don't think you know what... I was looking at the screen.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
Yeah, I'm trying to find it, dude. Ooh, a little attitude on a low pushback.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
Step out here right now. Okay, I'll tell you that in one second. You took it to a different level.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
Your bond's been revoked because you got a DUI. That's what I'm here for. Hit him. Hey, hey, hey. Listen. This ain't the end of the world. This doesn't mean you can't go near that axe. You're going to have a fucking problem, brother. I'm telling you right now. We can de-escalate this and you can get back out of jail or we can take this a whole new route. I'll tell you right now. Get back.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
Yeah, you're damn right. You're absolutely right. I'll hit you first and I'll hit you again, bro. And I'll hit you again. I will hit you again. I will hit you back up.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
Oh, I did want to promote my show. But it's not coming out until... No, maybe after the episode.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
I am going to New Jersey, Sunnyvale, California, Fort Worth, Dallas, Portland, Seattle, and Lexington next year. So I'm just going to take this moment. If you're out there, if anybody's out there, come see me.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
We had fun. We went and I can't believe you've never been. I said, Andrew must come here all the time.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
Yeah, I was kind of nervous going in, the whole naked thing, you know? Everyone's naked. And Bobby was like, I won't see you naked. I don't want to see you naked. That's so gross. We're not going to see you naked.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
So anyway, as we're walking in, I say, am I going to be the only white lady there? And he goes, no, no, no. Tons of whites go. And it was true. It was a good diversity mix. You wouldn't be the only white there. And I kind of get why you said no one goes to the Wii Spa with you. Because I was telling my friends and they're all like, I don't want to be naked with Bobby.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
I think people think when you say you will go to Wii Spa, they're thinking you're asking, can I see you naked?
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
But I think that's what they hear. It's like, it sounds like you just want to see all these male comics naked.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
I don't get your point but I like to see it he wants to go oh yeah I like to see it but when you go male female you're you know just you're in different rooms but then the co-ed you're in a uniform you've been there with me fun yeah yeah yeah it's really fun but it's relaxing it's so relaxing that's why I don't want to go with him yeah go at a different time but you should go please go with me no how unrelaxing would that be for me
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
Yeah, I'd go back. I was in the steam room and I walked in. I was in there for a minute and then this lady walked in and then there was probably five to six ladies in there. And then out of nowhere, it's quiet. And out of nowhere, this lady goes, do you want to find your uterus?
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
And, like, right before she said it, I was about to get up and leave, but then I was like, if I get up now, it's going to feel like a response to her saying that.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
Well, I don't know if it was to me or to, it felt like it was to the room.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
And then another lady goes, yeah. And then she just starts talking about, like, feeling on your abdomen where the uterus is.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
And then I had to, like, just kind of wait there for a while before I could leave respectfully.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
Wait, can we do it together? Okay. Because we haven't been on the show together, and I don't think I'll be on again.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
Yeah, and I'm going on the road next year, so I don't know when I'll be back. Okay, okay. Thank you for being a bad friend.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
I'll give them to you. You can use them. I'm just sitting them in my room. All right, well, give them to me.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
Okay, Hope Core on TikTok, it's always with a soft, like peaceful audio. And then the video is like mountains or like beautiful scenery. And there's always like quotes about like.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
What is it then? And the quotes are always like hopeful. And that's Hope Corps.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Hopecore Era
You know what I mean? I'm like, by the way, Bobby, dude, that was long gone for it. I just, you know, this is fucking weird.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
He chose to do what he did and then, like, gloating, took a picture of my dead daughter and then had the audacity to go on Facebook. To me, in my opinion, that's clear-cut that this guy is a psycho. I hope he gets a death penalty.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
Is there anything that your stepdaughter could have done that could have stopped the shooting?
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
Because she feels that she could have stopped it, done something to stop it.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
What is our status? Mr. Medina? Mr. Medina? Mr. Medina? Mr. Medina, I will have you excused from court if you speak out of turn, sir.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
Please be quiet. Mr. Medina, it's not that I don't care what you have to say, sir, but anything you say is being taken down by a court report. I am excused from court.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
25-0. It's a good record. Perfect record. That was the defendant's record as an amateur boxer. And that wasn't going to start on August 8, 2013. He wasn't going to lose to his wife. He wasn't going to lose by letting her leave, as she had said she was going to do. And he wasn't going to lose to his wife after she called him a pussy during an argument. And by his own admission, every shot hit.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
Every shot hit. He did what people do when they win. He told people about it. He didn't tell 911 in the hopes of maybe getting her help because he had just done this. He didn't run out of his house to call for help for his wife who was laying on the floor with 21 bullet holes in her. He didn't call her family and say he had to shoot her because she was attacking him. No.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
He did what was good for him. Because that's what he does. He went upstairs, put on a pair of pants. He went upstairs to get dressed while she lay there bleeding and dying on the floor of the kitchen. And he left. But before he left, he did two things. Number one, he took a picture. He had just killed his unarmed wife. And what did he do? He took a picture.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
of her bent backwards from being on her knees, cowering in the corner of the kitchen while he was shooting her. And he posted it on Facebook. And what was the post? I'm going to prison or death sentence for killing my wife. Love you guys. Miss you guys. Take care, Facebook people. You'll see me in the news. My wife was punching me. I'm not going to stand anymore with the abuse.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
So I did what I did. I hope you understand me. He killed his wife, supposedly in self-defense. But minutes later, he's talking about being on the news. And you will get to see the post. He told the detectives that he posted because he wanted her family to know about what had happened. That's how he wanted them to know. He told a different story to somebody else.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
He said he wanted to say goodbye to his friends. He shoots when he wants, and he leaves when he wants. And he tells the world about it on his terms.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
The notion that my daughter was violent or abusive is an insult to me and my family. That's a fantasy that he created and the council. Thank you very much.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
So I just wanted, I know you saw and heard a lot of things about Jen during the trial, but I just wanted you to know that she wasn't just a victim. She wasn't just a body on the floor to be discovered. She was a wonderful, amazing person. She was very forgiving, funny, smart. She had so much to give. And now, unfortunately, that's gone. She was turning into the woman that she was going to be.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
And that's not going to happen now. My kids are the most beautiful thing in the world to me. I cannot put into words the loss that I feel. There are no words. I experience joy every day, and I'm thankful to God for everything that he gives me to try and be the person that I need to be. But every day I suffer. I miss my daughter. I wish she was back with me, but she's not. She's never going to be.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
I miss everything about her. I miss braiding her hair for work. I miss giving her advice. I miss taking her advice. I miss laughing with her. All the things that we did together. And I just, I'm not gonna tell you how to do your job. I don't envy you your job.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
But just keep in mind, while you're doing your horrible task that you've been with, that Jennifer is not gonna come back to me in 25 years. She's not gonna come back to me in 40 years. She's not gonna come back to me at all. Just please keep that in mind. Thank you.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
Focus, Barack Obama president, on this corrupted world that I will be storing. Focus, again, presidents and future presidents, of the world, okay, I will be suing this world. Not only that, Unfriended the Movie by Universal Pictures came out with a movie before my trial, which was unfair, okay, which was biased, and pretty much the point that I'm trying to make is I did not get a fair trial.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
And I will be taking action. I will be suing. And I want Barack Obama, the President of the United States of America, to focus on corruption. Corruption is a big problem that we have in the United States of America and all over the world. Nothing further. Oh, God knows the truth. And nothing further.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
So if I didn't keep on shooting my gun, I would have been killed. I would have been deceased. And you would be doing an interview with her instead of me.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
All right, we're going to start with emotionalwriter.com. As you can see, it's the main website. Six books have been created in six months. Let's go down.
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
shit that gives me the hate to spit with my boy DJ Rick is going to be sick I did my thing with Sony my girl makes me so horny don't act like you know cuz you phony like my uncle Tony tell your Jake to stop wanting to phone me I would knock your ass out in my pro boxing bout cuz I'm real with that million dollar deal I won't stop till I get my last meal Jay Z's that deal his music so real I represent
Bad Friends
Bobby's Baby Powder
is that this was a defendant who was all about him. His rules, his way, he wins, he shoots when he wants.
Barely Famous
Morgan Bailey Is Not So-Random
All right, I may not be as funny as Nikki Glaser. I want to pitch a series of, like, calendars where men are just crying in a therapist's office or punching a pillow and working out their anger towards their dad. But I do have my moments. I actually have full conversations. With the moon. Yes.
Barely Famous
Morgan Bailey Is Not So-Random
i try to keep it pretty balanced on this podcast a little fun dance between comedy therapy self-medicating oh and sorry if you haven't guessed hi i'm caitlyn bristow host of off the vine podcast where we like to just keep things loose and keep them raw and keep them real like when we have listeners call in and give confessions and then that glass of wine progressed into me becoming a unicorn for them so
Barely Famous
Morgan Bailey Is Not So-Random
But we do, and I promise you this, try to keep it honest and vulnerable. So jump on the wagon, not off. Grab your favorite bottle of wine, preferably Spade and Sparrows, and join the Vinos. Have yourself a time. The Off the Vine podcast is available wherever you get your podcasts.
Barely Famous
Morgan Bailey Is Not So-Random
At Pluto TV, we're celebrating Black History Month with our curated collection of Black content, all streaming for free. Find groundbreaking films, including Selma, Django Unchained, Ali, and Coach Carter. You have an incredible gift up here. Gripping series like Power and The Game, next-level comedies, music video channels, and more.
Barely Famous
Morgan Bailey Is Not So-Random
Brilliant Black entertainment, intentionally curated and all free. This month and always on Pluto TV. Stream now. Pay never.
Barely Famous
Life of a SAHM podcast edition with Kylie Pitts
At Pluto TV, we're celebrating Black History Month with our curated collection of black content, all streaming for free. Find groundbreaking films, including Selma, Django Unchained, Ali, and Coach Carter. You have an incredible gift up here. Gripping series like Power and The Game, next-level comedies, music video channels, and more.
Barely Famous
Life of a SAHM podcast edition with Kylie Pitts
Brilliant black entertainment, intentionally curated and all free. This month and always on Pluto TV. Stream now. Pay never.
Barely Famous
Life of a SAHM podcast edition with Kylie Pitts
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Barely Famous
Life of a SAHM podcast edition with Kylie Pitts
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Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I was going to say it has been a martyr, but yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
My most miraculous thing is since we're doing video is I'm holding up my favorite coffee cup.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
That is like, what a, it's not even a Hail Mary, but what do you like, like high variance play the, hey, by the way, what's up? How do you do this job?
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
The B side of admitting it, I would say a lot less.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Not good. Could they? I can't imagine. I'm thinking lobster. I'm getting my crustaceans mixed up. It's so hardcore lobster territory. I don't know if lobsters and crabs fight. Sorry for... We're already over. The whole discussion has been how long this is going to be, and I'm just trying to figure out if there's crabs in Maine.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Yeah. Yeah. Like the public record is like, even if she's straight up lying about literally everything that is like hearsay, like who cares?
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
But that's my whole point. Part three seems normal.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I mean, gambling has never not been the underlying driver of everything. All of American society.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Kratz is a croupier. I think roulette is also a croupier, but I don't know.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
He went to a local church. He was going to the grocery store with us. He was the guy next door.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
He was certainly a peeping Tom, looking through the windows, looking at people, fantasizing about what he could do. He then began entering the houses.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
He could get into their home, take something, and get out and not be caught. He felt very powerful.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Someone killed four members of a family. It just didn't happen here.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
One of the kind of tricks for surviving Mars is to live there long enough so that people evolve into Martians.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Like, data is a very rough proxy for a complex reality.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
How is it possible that the world's new energy revolution can be based in this place where there's no electricity at night?
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I'm just going to throw this out there. That wasn't an error. That was a fucking dork trap and they all fell into it.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
The most significant Springer and Donahue, you never got the impression. Their point of view was like, look at this shit. Look at this crazy shit. Yeah. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
As opposed to like, I have an opinion on this crazy shit.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Yeah. It's... I mean, there's also just that... Yeah. Like, what a... I guess risk? Or, like, thank God the ratings worked out?
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
How dare you people try to correct Robert? That is my motherfucking job.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
How dare you people? Robert is never wrong. He's perfect.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
It is also weird to conclude, not weird, but like, I mean, I guess like more media savvy than I am to conclude from that first show that sex sells rather than like vulnerability sells or authenticity sells or whatever.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
low-key love her but like let's be real oh yeah yeah this is this is not great but you went into beauty contest they tell me you're a beauty contest winner yeah i'm 50 pounds ago or so yeah but so what'd you win well i won the miss fire prevention contest was that a who what fire prevention so how'd you gain the weight
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I ate a lot. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You said 50 pounds. You shouldn't let that happen to you. You're very pretty. You know what? No, I don't want to hear. Let me tell you this. Let me tell you something. You're a pretty girl and you're single.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
You must lose the weight. I'm going to. You know what? We are now... I am Chicago. In Chicago. We're starting a diet with Oprah. Grace. Yes. In conjunction with the Tribune so that I have been put under pressure to finally do it.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Now, I am trying to lose 5 pounds. You're such a teeny-tiny thing. Will you come back with me in March when I'm back, and you lose 15, I'll lose 5? Listen! That's the only way I'll do it. I'll keep thinking, that bitch is losing, and I'm not.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I'll do it if you do it. You will? Yeah. It's a deal. It's a deal.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Yes! It'd be great. Yeah. That's great. That's great. I'm excited about it, though, because I've gone up and down and up and down. I've been on every diet. Have you tried the banana, weenie, and egg diet? Oh! Has anybody done a banana weenie and egg? Where you eat a banana, a weenie, an egg? And I've done the pickles and peanut butter diet.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Oh, I just eat cookies, but I only eat like 800 calories worth of cookies. See, I figured you'd do it that way. Oh, yeah. I saw Nell Carter on here last night who'd lost. Yes, but you couldn't tell. She's still very chubby. She has to lose more. People go, oh, are not people that help friends with diet. You must tell a friend the truth. You must say you are still a pig. Lose more weight.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
It's uncomfortable. Does Oprah talk about like, like not, not like to, well, yeah, I mean, I guess what I'm about to say is going to sound victim blaming, but I'm just curious because part of the, like this, like, like attention to her weight, she, even if it was like going to happen anyway, she didn't profit from like, it was like a part of the like editorial strategy of her show. Right. Like,
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
The one thing I am curious about is when we as a culture made the transition from saying weenies to hot dogs. You wouldn't get a hot dog-based diet today.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I know. She would know. Jamie would know.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I just don't... I think you're doing great, pal.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Also, I just wanted to jump in March of Dimes' previous polio charity. The way things are going, they might need to go back.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
He went to a local church. He was going to the grocery store with us. He was the guy next door.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
He was certainly a peeping Tom, looking through the windows, looking at people, fantasizing about what he could do. He then began entering the houses.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
He could get into their home, take something, and get out and not be caught. He felt very powerful. He was a monster, hiding in plain sight.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Someone killed four members of a family. It just didn't happen here.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
One of the kind of tricks for surviving Mars is to live there long enough so that people evolve into Martians.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Like data is a very rough proxy for a complex reality.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
How is it possible that the world's new energy revolution can be based in this place where there's no electricity at night?
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Everyone's forgotten who runs this valley. Time to remind them.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
You know, the first stunts to settle this valley fighting was all they knew.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
The screen after she says that is just a picture of the devil on a TV screen holding his own tail. Thursday, victims of satanic worship. I love that. Iconic. Coming next, the devil.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Yes, my family has an extensive family tree, and they keep track of who's been involved and who hasn't.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Really? Yes. Yeah. Okay. What's the disguise? What's the disguise?
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I mean, I thought we were going to find out. Is it the boot in there?
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
She's wearing a wig and glasses. Disguise.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Sorry, presuming. Just was very thrown off by them being like, Oprah being like, this lady's in disguise. It's impossible to tell. They zoom in on her.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
But that brooch is long. That brooch is something, yes.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Who hasn't been involved? And it's gone back to, like, 1700. And so you were... Right.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
There's other Jewish families across the country.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
So, I don't think I have to tell you why this is dangerous. That's a real bad thing to have 20 million people watching. Like, oh my God. Not great. All the Jews are secretly worshiping the devil.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Well, there would be rituals in which babies would be sacrificed and you would have to, you know.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
There were people who bred babies in our family. No one would know about it. A lot of people were overweight, so you couldn't tell if they were pregnant or not. Or they would supposedly go away for a while and then come back. The other thing I want to point out, not all Jewish people sacrifice babies. I mean, it's not a very simple thing.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
When I was very young, I was forced to participate in that, in which I had to sacrifice an infant.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I have a lot of questions. So many questions.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Oh, God. Also, this does get closer to her future crimes of like... Like, clearly, even if you want to remove any sort of willful malice from Oprah, like a pretty shameful credulity is on display here. Yes.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Yeah. And, and, you know, I mean, it presumably the thing was like, wink, we're not going to ask you any hard questions. Right. Let's just get the rating.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
The evidence is is seems to be that people who are brilliant at one thing may actually be terrible. Some standard at most. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
They weren't running tunnels to molest toddlers for the devil.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
It's also just like the logistics of like running tunnels. A fucking satanic cult. Like, what the fuck are you talking about?
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Yeah. It's not highly correlated with Satan. No. In fact, it might be higher correlated with Satan's old friend.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Yeah, yeah. What do they need? Why are they doing this in tunnels? Like, why does that make more sense?
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Has she ever spoken about any of that? No. No, no, no. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Right, right, right. Yeah. It is this thing with, I mean, even the most popular shows, though, it's like you are still following trends. Like, you may have a hand on the scale for sure, but there is a point, too, where, you know, the... Yeah, as we've seen multiple times, like the snowball gets out of control and you are simply, regardless of your size, you are along for the ride.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
That is a level of petty that is very... It's beautiful. Yeah. Very nice. I don't know. I got a podcast called Yo, Is This Racist? It's fine.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Yeah, we'll find out. We'll find out how unfun it is.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com. Or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel, youtube.com slash at Behind the Bastards.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
This podcast is supported by BetterHelp, offering licensed therapists you can connect with via video, phone, or chat. Here's BetterHelp Head of Clinical Operations, Hesu Jo, discussing who can benefit from therapy.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Find out if therapy is right for you. Visit BetterHelp.com today. That's BetterHelp.com.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
What do you have to do to become a saint?
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Please tell me the first fire retarded couches were just made of asbestos.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Actually, I love that. You gotta respect that. Like when I grew up poor as shit, I would spend it. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
El Greco Brown. El Greco Brown. So he's Gordon Gekko L Brown.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Andrew, sorry. You're not sainted anymore. You have to live virtuously. You have to die for the faith, so you have to martyr. Perform miracles.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
That's the talking about this decades later being like, can you believe she didn't find it funny? That's nuts.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
That's insane. You just know somebody laughed at him, though, and he encouraged that shit. Maybe, or the whole, like, I don't know what things were like in the 70s. Don't laugh at men's jokes that aren't funny. Just don't.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
You should get fired for that. Period, yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I don't know if all of these are required at once.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
And this dude has been holding on to that joke for presumably- Yes, he tells this to Kitty Kelly in 2010.
Behind the Bastards
Part Three: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Cold! I do love how bitchy that is. That's good. Like, holy shit.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Call zone media.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
A long investigation stalls until someone changes their story. I, like, saw a whole thing that happened. An arrest, trial, and conviction soon follow. He did not kill her. There's no way. Is the real killer rightly behind bars or still walking free? Did you kill her? Listen to The Real Killer Season 3 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Yeah, 100%.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Hey, listeners, I'm Lauren Breypacheco, host of the Murder on Songbird Road podcast, and I'm excited to share this riveting story with you. I'm also excited to tell you that you can now get access to all episodes of Murder on Songbird Road 100% ad-free and one week early through the iHeart True Crime Plus subscription, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Plus, you'll get access to other chart-topping true crime shows you love, like Betrayal, The Girlfriends, Paper Ghosts, murder homes, unrestorable, the godmother, and more. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
My name is Kyle Tequila, host of the shocking new true crime podcast, Crook County. I got recruited into the mob when I was 17 years old.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
People are dying. Is he doing this every night?
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
And that's much healthier, Rush.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Kenny was a Chicago firefighter who lived a secret double life as a mafia hitman. I had a wife and I had two children. Nobody knew anything. He was a freaking crazy man. He was my father, and I had no idea about any of this until now. From Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts, Crook County is available Tuesday, February 11th.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Bless you, Larry Lujac.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Listen for free on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
This is interesting to me, too.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
But Robert, you know what all ladies are allowed to do? Products? Is it ads, Sophie? Is it participate in capitalism as consumers?
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Yes, it is participate in capitalism.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
You know, I didn't like the phrase stick it to Rush Limbaugh very much.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
He was a Boy Scout leader, a church deacon, a husband, a father.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
He went to a local church. He was going to the grocery store with us. He was the guy next door.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
But he was leading a double life.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
He was certainly a peeping Tom, looking through the windows, looking at people, fantasizing about what he could do. He then began entering the houses.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
He could get into their home, take something, and get out and not be caught. He felt very powerful. He was a monster, hiding in plain sight.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Someone killed four members of a family. It just didn't happen here.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Journey inside the mind of one of history's most notorious killers, BTK, through the voices of the people who know him best. Listen to Monster BTK on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
When a young woman is murdered, a desperate search for answers takes investigators to some unexpected places. He believed it could be part of a satanic cult.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
I think there were many individuals present. I don't know who pulled the trigger.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
A long investigation stalls until someone changes their story. I saw the whole thing that happened. An arrest, trial, and conviction soon follow. He just saw his body just kind of collapsing. Two decades later, a new team of lawyers says their client is innocent. He did not kill her. There's no way. Is the real killer rightly behind bars or still walking free? Are you capable of murder?
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
I definitely am not.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Did you kill her? Listen to The Real Killer Season 3 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Hey, listeners, I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco, host of the Murder on Songbird Road podcast. Murder on Songbird Road revisits a controversial 2020 murder that occurred in southern Illinois. It divided a community and pitted families against one another. But questions remain as to whether the mother of four serving time for the crime is actually guilty.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
I'm excited to tell you that you can get access to all episodes of Murder on Songbird Road 100% ad-free and one week before anyone else with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Yeah, you do have issues with the Swedes.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
He was a Boy Scout leader, a husband, a father, but he was leading a double life. He was a monster, hiding in plain sight. Journey inside the mind of one of history's most notorious killers, BTK, through the voices of the people who know him best. Listen to Monster BTK on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Yeah, absolutely.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
He was a Boy Scout leader, a church deacon, a husband, a father.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
He went to a local church. He was going to the grocery store with us. He was the guy next door.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
But he was leading a double life.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
He was certainly a peeping Tom, looking through the windows, looking at people, fantasizing about what he could do. He then began entering the houses.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
He could get into their home, take something, and get out and not be caught. He felt very powerful.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
He was a monster, hiding in plain sight.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Someone killed four members of a family. It just didn't happen here.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Journey inside the mind of one of history's most notorious killers, BTK, through the voices of the people who know him best. Listen to Monster BTK on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
When a young woman is murdered, a desperate search for answers takes investigators to some unexpected places. He believed it could be part of a satanic cult.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
I think there were many individuals present. I don't know who pulled the trigger.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
A long investigation stalls until someone changes their story. I saw the whole thing that happened. An arrest, trial, and conviction soon follow. He just saw his body just kind of collapsing. Two decades later, a new team of lawyers says their client is innocent. He did not kill her. There's no way. Is the real killer rightly behind bars or still walking free? Are you capable of murder?
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
I definitely am not. Did you kill her?
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Listen to The Real Killer Season 3 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Hey, listeners, I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco, host of the Murder on Songbird Road podcast. Murder on Songbird Road revisits a controversial 2020 murder that occurred in southern Illinois. It divided a community and pitted families against one another. But questions remain as to whether the mother of four serving time for the crime is actually guilty.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
I'm excited to tell you that you can get access to all episodes of Murder on Songbird Road 100% ad-free and one week before anyone else with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
It takes one guy out there to say, who's that Kyle who thinks he can just get on a microphone on a podcast and start publicizing this shit?
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
From iHeart Podcasts and Tenderfoot TV comes a new true crime podcast, Crook County. I got recruited into the mob when I was 17 years old. Meet Kenny, an enforcer for the legendary Chicago outfit. And that was my mission, to snuff the f***ing life out of this guy. He lived a secret double life as a firefighter paramedic for the Chicago Fire Department. I had a wife and I had two children.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Nobody knew anything.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
People are dying. Is he doing this every night?
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
torn between two worlds i'm covering up murders that these cops are doing he was a freaking crazy man we don't know who he is really he is my father and i had no idea about any of this until now welcome to crook county series premiere february 11th listen for free on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Anybody else still find the big rush part really funny? It is very funny.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
An hour in, it's still funny. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Yeah. So...
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
God, that sounds horrible. It's a nightmare. That's grim. That gives me the heebie-jeebies.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Oh, you're going to really love this, Bob. I love the opening thing.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
We're on a baby river. Exactly.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Way more time than he deserves, but somebody had to do it.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Here's three hours of evidence.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com. Or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel, youtube.com slash at Behind the Bastards.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
He was a Boy Scout leader, a husband, a father, but he was leading a double life. He was a monster, hiding in plain sight. Journey inside the mind of one of history's most notorious killers, BTK, through the voices of the people who know him best. Listen to Monster BTK on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
It was big news. I mean, white girl gets murdered, found in a cemetery, big, big news.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
A long investigation stalls until someone changes their story. I, like, saw the whole thing that happened. An arrest, trial, and conviction soon follow. He did not kill her. There's no way. Is the real killer rightly behind bars or still walking free? Did you kill her? Listen to The Real Killer, Season 3, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Hey listeners, I'm Lauren Breypacheco, host of the Murder on Songbird Road podcast, and I'm excited to share this riveting story with you. I'm also excited to tell you that you can now get access to all episodes of Murder on Songbird Road 100% ad-free and one week early through the iHeart True Crime Plus subscription, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Plus, you'll get access to other chart-topping true crime shows you love, like Betrayal, The Girlfriends, Paper Ghosts, murder homes, unrestorable, the godmother, and more. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
My name is Kyle Tequila, host of the shocking new true crime podcast, Crook County. I got recruited into the mob when I was 17 years old.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
People are dying. Is he doing this every night?
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Kenny was a Chicago firefighter who lived a secret double life as a mafia hitman. I had a wife and I had two children. Nobody knew anything. He was a freaking crazy man. He was my father, and I had no idea about any of this until now. From Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts, Crook County is available Tuesday, February 11th.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Listen for free on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
Louis. Rush is his real name? I always thought that was one of those things where he was like, I choose that.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
It was big news. I mean, white girl gets murdered, found in a cemetery, big, big news.
Behind the Bastards
CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins
That's an odd comment. That's so weird.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: In Honor Of Our New Monarchy, Let's Talk About Versailles
You're all going to starve this year. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: In Honor Of Our New Monarchy, Let's Talk About Versailles
The platform we used before Shopify needed regular updates, which sometimes led to the shop not working.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: In Honor Of Our New Monarchy, Let's Talk About Versailles
It's like mobility dorms.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: In Honor Of Our New Monarchy, Let's Talk About Versailles
Maybe longer.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: In Honor Of Our New Monarchy, Let's Talk About Versailles
The platform we used before Shopify needed regular updates, which sometimes led to the shop not working.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: In Honor Of Our New Monarchy, Let's Talk About Versailles
I didn't teach you maths so that you could build a house like this.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: In Honor Of Our New Monarchy, Let's Talk About Versailles
People are dying. Is he doing this every night?
Behind the Bastards
Part One: In Honor Of Our New Monarchy, Let's Talk About Versailles
That's why they're still alive. Yeah. They're full of French nobody piss. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: In Honor Of Our New Monarchy, Let's Talk About Versailles
Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com. Or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: In Honor Of Our New Monarchy, Let's Talk About Versailles
Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel, youtube.com slash at Behind the Bastards.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: In Honor Of Our New Monarchy, Let's Talk About Versailles
People are dying. Is he doing this every night?
Behind the Bastards
Part One: In Honor Of Our New Monarchy, Let's Talk About Versailles
Wonderful, perfect.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Well, so admittedly, the UFO scene is not my wheelhouse. I bought up against it every now and again, but it is there. There are some guys in the UFO movement who used to have jobs that you would think would make them immune from becoming insane. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Yep. Sometimes it's like, oh, this guy used to work at the Pentagon. He has no. Oh, no, no, no, no. He's speaking at UFO conventions.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
So no, no, no. Knowing that he was in the Privy Council doesn't do anything for me because I do not know what that is. And I refuse to find out.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
I was going to say, do the Venusians have a prime directive?
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
I mean, I guess he can live inside the Pentagon. They do have a Taco Bell.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
He was a Boy Scout leader, a church deacon, a husband, a father.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
He went to a local church. He was going to the grocery store with us. He was the guy next door.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
But he was leading a double life.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
He was certainly a peeping Tom, looking through the windows, looking at people, fantasizing about what he could do. He then began entering the houses.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
He could get into their home, take something, and get out and not be caught. He felt very powerful.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
He was a monster, hiding in plain sight.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Someone killed four members of a family. It just didn't happen here.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Journey inside the mind of one of history's most notorious killers, BTK, through the voices of the people who know him best. Listen to Monster BTK on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Everyone's forgotten who runs this valley. Time to remind them.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Our family legacy is this ranch.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
You know, the first stunts to settle this valley fighting was all they knew.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
He was a Boy Scout leader, a husband, a father, but he was leading a double life. He was a monster, hiding in plain sight. Journey inside the mind of one of history's most notorious killers, BTK, through the voices of the people who know him best. Listen to Monster BTK on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
One of the kind of tricks for surviving Mars is to live there long enough so that people evolve into Martians.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Like data is a very rough proxy for a complex reality.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
How is it possible that the world's new energy revolution can be based in this place where there's no electricity at night?
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
I mean, she looks like she comes in peace, right?
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Oh, the rainbow is the abduction tractor beam.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
But that's fun. I like my version.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
I'm getting like Jim Jones. I'm getting me.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
It must have been a term of endearment because why else would they? It's written that way.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Unfortunately, it can't be detected.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Or he ascended to that plane and that's why you can't find it.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Control? Are you on a Windows machine?
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Our family legacy is this ranch.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
I like that he's left in the lens flare because it makes him look inferior.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
I do want to harness the energy of a sacred location for holographic healing.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
They were obviously on the wrong vibrational plane.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
I think you can get FMLA for that.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
I was going to say, they may have both drawn from the same original source that we just... Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Are you saying Riker is sort of a self-insert?
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
And just so into fucking any kind of alien. Absolutely, absolutely. It just didn't even matter to him if they didn't even have gender.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
He fucked those non-binary aliens before anyone was even talking about that.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
So anyway, maybe Jordan Peele didn't see that picture. Maybe he had it beamed into his mind by the Venusian ascended masters. I don't think you're considering all the possibilities here.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
He was changing his vibrations, obviously.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
What? You're saying a lot of things I'm not processing. Every single sentence in this book is like that. Can we go back to the street college of metaphysics? Is this just guys outside? It's got to just be guys outside talking about UFOs. Like the guy that yells at you in the street corner outside CBS. That's actually a street college of metaphysics.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Like, was she using a Polaroid or were these revelations that had to wait till she got back from Walgreens?
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
I need to ascend to the point that I cannot be recorded by a surveillance camera.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
So the Venusian health magic isn't something they're selling you. This is just you can just vibrate towards it.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Oh, that's going to give you a tummy ache.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
That's just the Lifetron's working.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
I mean, UFO subculture has gone some some bad directions. And I guess.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
In terms of conspiracy theory culture in general, the best predictor for believing in any conspiracy theory is a preexisting belief in any other conspiracy theory. So it's sort of. Yes. is contagious, it sort of snowballs, right? If you have this sort of harmless belief in Venusian life magic, that sort of opens you up to this belief that the government is suppressing this.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Why is the government suppressing this? And then you sort of snowball into these ideas that end in, you know, like satanic panic style stuff.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
He was a Boy Scout leader, a church deacon, a husband, a father.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
He went to a local church. He was going to the grocery store with us. He was the guy next door.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
But he was leading a double life.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
He was certainly a peeping Tom, looking through the windows, looking at people, fantasizing about what he could do. He then began entering the houses.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
He could get into their home, take something, and get out and not be caught. He felt very powerful.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
He was a monster, hiding in plain sight.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Someone killed four members of a family. It just didn't happen here.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Journey inside the mind of one of history's most notorious killers, BTK, through the voices of the people who know him best. Listen to Monster BTK on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Everyone's forgotten who runs this valley. Time to remind them.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Our family legacy is this ranch.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
You know, the first stunts to settle this valley fighting was all they knew.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
One of the kind of tricks for surviving Mars is to live there long enough so that people evolve into Martians.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Like data is a very rough proxy for a complex reality.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
How is it possible that the world's new energy revolution can be based in this place where there's no electricity at night?
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
So the... So a Lifetron is a subcomponent of atomic particles. So like a Lifetron is like a quark.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Is a Lifetron made of thought trons or does it descend from them in some way?
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
But not neutrons. What are neutrons made of?
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
So maybe his understanding of atomic physics is not good.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
So do you think Steve Jobs knows about thought trance?
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
That picture of him with the cooked iguana is the only thing. If I think about Jeff Bezos eating anything, I just think about Jeff Bezos holding that cooked iguana.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
It's a terrifying photograph.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
I'm speaking to the Neptunians through my fillings right now and they disagree.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
And now that we know that he's known Jim for a long time, we're prepared to accept this.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Now we're stuck in a quandary.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
I'm not bullish on human survival in space at this point, but OK, if I ever get sent to a work camp on the moon, I'm going to need Wi-Fi. So you're going to want to have Wi-Fi.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Which would never happen to a gullible man.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
He's obviously chosen to experience that.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Obviously, fucking obviously.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
It can't hurt to try, right? It can't hurt to try. That's the thought process that undergirds a lot of very exploitative alternative health.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
She graduated from Earth, but not from the patriarchy.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
They've graduated from gender.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Oh, gosh. Well, I guess you could listen to my podcast, Weird Little Guys. I mean, this episode is kind of about a guy that's weird. My show is about guys that are weird in a way that sucks a lot more. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Yeah, guys that want to annihilate all of us. Speaking of annihilation.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Yeah, check out Weird Little Guys.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
I think a lot of people think that you're supposed to be going to therapy once you're like having panic attacks every day. But before you get to that point, I think once you start even noticing that you feel a little bit off and you can't maintain this harmony that you once had in relationships, that could be a sign that maybe you want to go talk to somebody.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
There's always a benefit in talking to someone because we can all benefit from improved insight about ourselves and who we are and how we behave with other people. So if you're human, that's like a good indicator that you could benefit from talking to somebody.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
He was a Boy Scout leader, a husband, a father, but he was leading a double life. He was a monster, hiding in plain sight. Journey inside the mind of one of history's most notorious killers, BTK, through the voices of the people who know him best. Listen to Monster BTK on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Our family legacy is this ranch.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
I think I recognize these sigils. I'd have those property records in an instant for you, Robert.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
I don't think you can go there.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Well, I think just women, right? Only women are from Venus.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
And he's obviously very proud of these things because he did not put away his personal items before renting out the house.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
I mean, if they invented the iPhone, they know how to get the pictures off the iPhone.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Oh, predictive programming.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
Because the ultimate existential evil we all face plays by a certain set of rules and they have to tell you what they're going to do.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
I love a fun name, like the 9-11 truth guy who called himself Able Danger.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
They had they had pomades back then that the FDA has taken from us.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
You've just invented a new kind of birtherism. We're in dangerous territory.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
I just watched Blue Velvet for the first time.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
I have no doubt about that.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
And the movie came out before.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
So, like, while he was on his way here, he sort of beamed that idea down so that we would be prepared for it.
Behind the Bastards
Part One: Space Magic from Venus: A Literary Odyssey
He's not copying the movie. The movie's predictive programming.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
He went to a local church. He was going to the grocery store with us. He was the guy next door.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
He was certainly a peeping Tom, looking through the windows, looking at people, fantasizing about what he could do. He then began entering the houses.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
He could get into their home, take something, and get out and not be caught. He felt very powerful.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
Someone killed four members of a family. It just didn't happen here.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
One of the kind of tricks for surviving Mars is to live there long enough so that people evolve into Martians.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
Like, data is a very rough proxy for a complex reality. Ah!
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
How is it possible that the world's new energy revolution can be based in this place where there's no electricity at night?
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
It was big news. I mean, white girl gets murdered, found in a cemetery, big, big news.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
I think there were many individuals present. I don't know who pulled the trigger.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
I definitely am not. Did you kill her?
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
It was big news. I mean, white girl gets murdered, found in a cemetery, big, big news.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
He went to a local church. He was going to the grocery store with us. He was the guy next door.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
He was certainly a peeping Tom, looking through the windows, looking at people, fantasizing about what he could do. He then began entering the houses.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
He could get into their home, take something, and get out and not be caught. He felt very powerful.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
Someone killed four members of a family. It just didn't happen here.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
One of the kind of tricks for surviving Mars is to live there long enough so that people evolve into Martians.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
Like data is a very rough proxy for a complex reality.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
How is it possible that the world's new energy revolution can be based in this place where there's no electricity at night?
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
It was big news. I mean, white girl gets murdered, found in a cemetery, big, big news.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
I think there were many individuals present. I don't know who pulled the trigger.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
I definitely am not. Did you kill her?
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
Well, I'm gonna tell you, fascists, you may be surprised.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
People in this world are getting organized You're bound to lose, you fascists bound to lose All of you fascists bound to lose All of you fascists bound to lose All of you fascists bound to lose You're bound to lose, you fascists bound to lose There's people of every nature marching side to side
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
Marching across the fields Where a million fascists died You're bound to lose You fascists are bound to lose All of you fascists are bound to lose Yes All of you fascists are bound to lose Yes I said All of you fascists are bound to lose You're bound to lose You fascists are bound to lose I said All of you fascists are bound to lose Yes All of
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
Your fashion's bound to lose Your fashion's bound to lose Your fashion's bound to lose
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
It was big news. I mean, white girl gets murdered, found in a cemetery, big, big news.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: How Woody Guthrie Turned Folk Music into a Weapon
Oh, well, there you go.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I will say the tone of that passage. See, I was initially going to indicate that the she was going to say that the sleeping on the porch was not factual. So to land on. Well, she definitely was on the porch is still a little like, you know, I don't know.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Yeah. And there's also like, like a, I feel like with this type of thing too, it's like whatever the real story is, it's like the kernel of truth, even if just to the, like the phenomenon makes it really hard to push back. We're like, she was still sleeping on the porch. Yeah. And I'm just like, but, but maybe, but you know, and I'm like, even the it's in the middle of it is just like,
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
thing that that would stick with you as a kid into adulthood but it also is like the exact thing that kids say all the time you know like well i mean that's part of why i believe it yeah well but but as in like every kid feels that way that like there's a light in someone's eyes and until they're talking about me it's like yeah i know but everyone feels that way does everyone feel that way or did we just get fucked up too
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I'm just saying there's certainly we're right in the phase of like adolescence where it's just like everybody hates me. Like that's such a common idea among kids.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Yeah. Yeah. It's that, that is the thing that ultimately this entire series is going to hinge on is like, however much, uh, you might want to, you know, or one would categorize Oprah as some kind of bastard. There is a grading on the curve element of it, which might just put her at not a bastard, given her peers.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
But you can. It's kind of nice to see someone who doesn't give a fuck.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
But it's still pretty funny. It's such a fine line between how is that even playing school for the other two? Really?
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
He was certainly a peeping Tom, looking through the windows, looking at people, fantasizing about what he could do. He then began entering the houses.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I think there were many individuals present. I don't know who pulled the trigger.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Worried about getting in trouble after being assaulted.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
That's just like. That's. That's. Yeah. Oh, man.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Yeah. And the conclusion drawn is... That should, the conclusion alone should put you on a watch list. Yeah. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I don't know if it's certain because like, I don't think most men look at 13 year old girls that way, but yeah, I would hope not.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I can't imagine getting the counterfactual, even if it were the case at the time, in a direct interview. You could ask someone, hey, did you hire Oprah despite her not being the best candidate? Right, right. That's the other part of it, too. Yeah. And they're going to say, well, yes. I find that hard to believe.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
So not the smoothest crime anyone's ever faked.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Maybe it's just like you would assume potentially that this would not register on Aretha Franklin's radar?
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I kind of think this is the kind of thing that's just on someone's comms team is like, we're not talking about this. We're not talking about this. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I mean, without like... wholly extrapolating a lot or like putting my, I mean, you know, my parents are not of that generation, but that is the type of shit they would do. Like, yeah, there, there are types of parents that would think this is, you know, and would think not talking about it is the best way because we mostly just have negative things to say. So let's just pretend it didn't happen.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
He was certainly a peeping Tom, looking through the windows, looking at people, fantasizing about what he could do. He then began entering the houses.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I thought you were going to apologize for the health nut business. I'm barely hanging on, dog. I'm kidding.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I think there were many individuals present. I don't know who pulled the trigger.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
So weird to be able to perceive. I don't think I would have realized that was a bad situation when I was five. Maybe I was just an oblivious kid.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Well, unless it's a calculated bid for electability when we all know how that goes. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
There's also like, like, I mean, obviously not OK to call someone an Oreo or attack their blackness for, quote, acting white. But also every kid was called something. I'm just like, yeah, there's a little bit of like, you know, history is written by the winners and the winner is definitely Oprah as far as narrative goes. So like. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Like I'm not saying it's good high school, but everyone it's just it is also high school.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
He's like a Starcraft guy, basically. Yeah. He needed drones.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I remain curious to see how they connect. Because if the bad stuff is kind of what I imagine it is, this would be the least... the least, like, connective tissue between Acts 1 and 2 and Acts, you know, the B-side, basically.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I guess from that point of view, the good news is things don't ever go bad for Oprah. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I could go. I think I went first last time.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Well, are you going to let Andrew do his plugs? Yo, is this racist? Oh, shit. Oh, shit.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Oh, thank you. This is a bootleg. Bye. I probably don't hang out with DJ Screw either.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com. Or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel, youtube.com slash at Behind the Bastards.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I mean, I'm alive, but try to help folks out on... Still in your home. Still in my home. Trying to... Yeah, trying to... We're at the... The fires are still raging as we record in Los Angeles, but I am lucky enough to be able to try to fucking help some folks concentrating on Skid Row right now, but...
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
This is why we call you, this isn't why we call you the white Oprah, but this is, you know, helping.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
I will just say for all you right-wing lunatics scared of the Antifa super soldiers and the upcoming war against socialism, it's going to be really hard for us to make sure all our super soldiers are showing up on time to the battle.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Yeah. Yeah. God. Because it also is like... That's exactly what you remember as a like teen and teen is these conflicts that like don't probably resonate as much with the adult.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Well, or it's like, you know, I was always trying to help, you know, make this kid in my image or whatever image I thought. And, you know, you hang on to different things.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
But the scheduling has been a real thing these last couple days.
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
Listen, going around and being like, I want to recite this poem. How old was she?
Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?
It feels honestly not in the grand scheme of things as bad as it could have been.
Behind the Bastards
Behind the Bastards Presents: Sixteenth Minute (of Fame)
Hey, Meta, text my last photo to Eva.
Behind the Bastards
Behind the Bastards Presents: Sixteenth Minute (of Fame)
A couple of weeks ago, we had a reporter come into our home to learn more about our family and business. We thought the interview went really well, very similar to the dozens of interviews we had done in recent memory. We were taken back, however, when we saw the printed article, which shocked us and shocked the world by being an attack on our family and my marriage.
Behind the Bastards
Behind the Bastards Presents: Sixteenth Minute (of Fame)
Hey Meta, text my last photo to Eva.
Behind the Bastards
Behind the Bastards Presents: Sixteenth Minute (of Fame)
Introducing Signals, the next generation of platforms for investors designed to elevate your trading strategy by giving access to insights used by Wall Street pros to dominate the market. Signals uses its proprietary data of $70 billion in consumer spend across North America to spot market trends before they make the headlines.
Behind the Bastards
Behind the Bastards Presents: Sixteenth Minute (of Fame)
We bring you the alternative data that drives decisions at top hedge funds, allowing you to carve your own edge in the stock market. Uncover tomorrow's market moves with today's real-time data. Visit jointsignals.com today.
Behind the Bastards
Behind the Bastards Presents: Sixteenth Minute (of Fame)
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Behind the Bastards
Behind the Bastards Presents: Sixteenth Minute (of Fame)
To shop now, go to NFLShop.com.
Behind the Bastards
Behind the Bastards Presents: Sixteenth Minute (of Fame)
I've been away since deep in the night
Behind the Bastards
Behind the Bastards Presents: Sixteenth Minute (of Fame)
Introducing Signals, the next generation of platforms for investors, designed to elevate your trading strategy by giving access to insights used by Wall Street pros to dominate the market. Signals uses its proprietary data of $70 billion in consumer spend across North America to spot market trends before they make the headlines.
Behind the Bastards
Behind the Bastards Presents: Sixteenth Minute (of Fame)
We bring you the alternative data that drives decisions at top hedge funds, allowing you to carve your own edge in the stock market. Join the insider circle who are already transforming their investment strategies. Visit join signals.com to start your free 14 day trial. No hidden fees, no gimmicks, just pure actionable insights and your reliance on outdated information with signals.
Behind the Bastards
Behind the Bastards Presents: Sixteenth Minute (of Fame)
Invest like a pro make informed decisions swiftly and stay ahead of the curve. Uncover tomorrow's market moves with today's real-time data. Visit jointsignals.com today.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
Catch Jon Stewart back in action on The Daily Show and in your ears with The Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. From his hilarious satirical takes on today's politics and entertainment to the unique voices of correspondents and contributors, it's your perfect companion to stay on top of what's happening now.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
Plus, you'll get special content just for podcast listeners, like in-depth interviews and a roundup of the week's top headlines. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
Jon Stewart is back at The Daily Show, and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with The Daily Show Ears Edition Podcast. Dive into Jon's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports, and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondents and contributors.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
And with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
It's about never feeling good enough. I feel like I'm always failing.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
We make it this big pie-in-the-sky thing, and then of course we're all frustrated because no one knows how to get there.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
The ability to approach somebody and make them experience desire for you in minutes or even hours is a rare and rather unnecessary skill, historically speaking.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be. Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well-being at SoundItOutTogether.org. That's SoundItOutTogether.org. Brought to you by the Ad Council and Pivotal.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
Jon Stewart is back at The Daily Show, and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with The Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into Jon's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports, and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondents and contributors.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
Jon Stewart is back at The Daily Show, and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with The Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into Jon's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports, and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondents and contributors.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
And with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
It's about never feeling good enough. I feel like I'm always failing.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
We make it this big pie-in-the-sky thing, and then of course we're all frustrated because no one knows how to get there.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
The ability to approach somebody and make them experience desire for you in minutes or even hours is a rare and rather unnecessary skill, historically speaking.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
Snakes, zombies, sharks, heights, speaking in public. The list of fears is endless. But while you're clutching your blanket in the dark, wondering if that sound in the hall was actually a footstep, the real danger is in your hand when you're behind the wheel. And while you might think a great white shark is scary, what's really terrifying and even deadly is distracted driving. Eyes forward.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
Don't drive distracted. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
And with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
Jon Stewart is back at The Daily Show, and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with The Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into Jon's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports, and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondents and contributors.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
And with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
It's about never feeling good enough. I feel like I'm always failing.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
We make it this big pie-in-the-sky thing, and then of course we're all frustrated because no one knows how to get there.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
The ability to approach somebody and make them experience desire for you in minutes or even hours is a rare and rather unnecessary skill, historically speaking.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
Snakes, zombies, public speaking. The list of fears is endless. But the real danger is in your hand when you're behind the wheel. Distracted driving is what's really scary and even deadly. Eyes forward. Don't drive distracted. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
Jon Stewart is back at The Daily Show, and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with The Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into Jon's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports, and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondents and contributors.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
And with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
It's about never feeling good enough. I feel like I'm always failing.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
We make it this big pie-in-the-sky thing, and then of course we're all frustrated because no one knows how to get there.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
The ability to approach somebody and make them experience desire for you in minutes or even hours is a rare and rather unnecessary skill, historically speaking.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
Snakes, zombies, sharks, heights, speaking in public. The list of fears is endless. But while you're clutching your blanket in the dark, wondering if that sound in the hall was actually a footstep, the real danger is in your hand when you're behind the wheel. And while you might think a great white shark is scary, what's really terrifying and even deadly is distracted driving. Eyes forward.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 166
Don't drive distracted. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
I don't even have anything more intelligent than like, yeah, I wonder what that does to Twitter's bottom line.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Yeah. I really like the process of writing. I like telling stories like that makes me happy. And I feel so lucky I can do it for my job. I don't particularly like like receiving trauma, which I also do for a job. Really? Sometimes I can't sleep. So many people trusted me with their stories, especially this year that they didn't have to. And sometimes a great personal risk.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
And it's a massive privilege that they trusted me with those stories. And I think I owe it to them to do my best to tell those stories as well as I can. And like, as Mia said, it has materially changed the world. Like the amount of people who listened to our podcast and came to the border to help last year when we really desperately needed help.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
People who just like on Sunday night gave their money, which I know none of us have enough money right now to help people who are displaced in Rojava. Like... All that stuff really makes it feel like if you tell a good enough story, people will care. That's always what I felt. Like if you could just get people to see it, if people could be there, they would care.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
And if they care enough, they'll do something. And I've seen that be true with people who listen to the show. And that really makes me happy. So I want to keep doing that.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Like, this doesn't do anything for me. No, it's like a parlor trick. I am surprised you figured this out. What value does this have? Yeah, how does the dog know who Farrah Fawcett is? I have questions, sure, but it doesn't give me anything.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Anyway, that's a story for another day. Cool. These are the kind of things you get recording at 11.56 p.m.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
I'm proud of doing the Darien ones, I think. I'm so happy that we finally got to a place where we could do that, where we could fund that. I've been trying to do that, like I said, for nearly a decade. It's been hard and it continues to be hard. One of the people you heard from in those episodes got deported last week. It continues to be emotionally difficult, but
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
I really liked how many people messaged me and were like, I sent this to my father, uncle, not just dudes, aunts and mums too, I'm sure, and non-binary relatives. But like, well, maybe not because they had sent it to their right wing relatives and they like learned some compassion. That's always what you want to do.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Like I said before, you want people to see it so that they care and so they understand it and they don't just get this stupid Fox News bullshit racism stuff. And so, yeah, that made me really happy. The reason we're all different on this, by the way, is because we have not done a come 2024 episode. And if we had, this would have been a much shorter segment.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Bruce Springsteen hasn't made a song about it, so we have no way of knowing.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Yeah, it's strange to be seeing something like this organized so far off. Like it's not something where any of us are familiar with.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Yeah, it has to be. Barring like an actual coup, that's the only way you get a general strike, right? Like either something so earth shattering that everyone's ready to risk it because they're already in danger. Or you take the time and you plan that you do it properly. But it's just not something we're familiar with. I love the general strike. I'm always going to support a general strike.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
I'm excited to see a general strike. But yeah, we have to put in the work now.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
In 2025, when I finish my book, you should buy it.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
But read General Strike. I've been reading a book called Pretente, which is in English, but it's about how San Francisco dock workers blocked a shipment of weapons to El Salvador.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
And it just seems a very relevant book. And they did it to Pinochet as well. It's easy to read. And it just reminded me how important labor organizing is going to be in the next four years and how powerful it can be too. So I'll give that one a little plug. Excellent. There's a film called The End Will Be Spectacular, which is about the Kurdish youth movement in northern Kurdistan, in Turkey.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
It's a really good film, I think, of... to help you understand the Kurdish freedom movement. And it's worth a watch. It's not necessarily a happy, feel-good film, but I think it's worth a watch if you've recently become interested in that because of what you've heard on the podcast.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Hi, everyone. It's James. Coming at you with a pretty nasty cold here. I wanted to share with you that Wildfires has swept through Los Angeles in the last couple of days while I'm recording this. Thousands of people have been displaced. Five people have died that we know of so far.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Thousands of structures have been burned, and many, many people in LA will be finding themselves out of their homes with nowhere to go, with very few resources. If you'd like to help, we've come up with some mutual aid groups who you can donate to, and we'll be interviewing one of them on this show next week.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Asada Shakur. The sketchy guy named Steve. It's giving funny true crime. I love storytelling and I love you, so I can't wait.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
When I smoke weed, I get lost in the music. I like to isolate each instrument. The rhythmic bass, the harmonies on the piano, the sticky melody.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Careful, babe. There's someone crossing the street.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
If you feel different, you drive different. Don't drive high. It's dangerous and illegal everywhere. A message from NHTSA and the Ad Council.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
I really wanted to be a playboy model. Lingerie, topless. I said, yes, please.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
You know who he is because of his pattern of behavior.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
He's just spinning the web for you to get trapped in it. He's everywhere and has been everywhere. It's so much worse and so much more widespread than I had anticipated.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
So if you'd like to help, the three places where we suggest you would donate some cash are The Sidewalk Project, that's thesidewalkproject.org, Ktown4All, That's letter K-T-O-W-N-F-O-R-A-L-L dot O-R-G. And Aetna Street Solidarity. You can find them on Venmo or I think on Instagram as well. That's A-E-T-N-A-S-T-R-E-E-T-S-O-L-I-D-A-R-I-T-Y. All right, I'm going to go rest my voice.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
I've never seen so many women protect predatory men. And then me too happened. And then everybody else wanted to get pissed off because the white said it was okay. Problem. Problem.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
My oldest daughter, her first day in ninth grade, and I called to ask how I was doing.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
What turns me on is when a man sends me money. Like, I feel the moisture between my legs when a man sends me money. I'm like, oh, my God, it's go time. You actually sent it? Mm.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Finally, we will acknowledge the Armenian genocide.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Damn. I'd forgotten all about that. Really happy with myself now.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
You got to pick another one this year. Min Aung Hlaing, baby.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Which is going to die, do we think, or just general dictator predictions?
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
No, he's going to open his ophthalmology clinic.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Yeah, Bashar Al-Assad. Yeah. Welcome to the pod, Bashar.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Pod save Barthas Syria, the most cursed podcast in the world.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Yeah, well, I did Morrissey like that last year, and we didn't get it, and I'm sad.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
She transvestigates every single female artist on the Spotify rap list and dies of sleep deprivation doing so.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
If only there was some kind of device to make eggs that you could have in your own garden.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Yeah. Robert, before we broadcast, so you have a sort of shotgun. It's not functional. It's been destroyed. I see. I see. Good. Didn't want a little Ruby Ridge moment. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Sell your house, buy Cool Zone Coin. Have you seen Hook, Garrison?
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
I would love to. I bet one thing I think is very predictable border stuff. They will stunt on another caravan of migrants. And I think it's pretty easy for them to kind of organize that and make that happen. And it will be a way for Trump to flex his border fascism.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Much like he did in 2018. Maybe they'll wait till the midterms again. There's always a fun border disaster for the midterms.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Most of us just turned in on the off chance that Jake Paul would die.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Better get the healthy bacteria. And it gives you mystical powers.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Blue Ski. One does not post on Blue Sky, Sophie. One skeets.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
I would like to see it from a distance because that would be a shit show. Yeah, from a sizable distance. Yeah.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen a lot of dudes fire guns while ducking behind a K-beam, holding the gun above their head. They love doing that.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
It does look fun. I would like to do that. But they kick me out of the range every time because of Woke. How sad. Well, not anymore, James. Yeah, that's also the casualties, yeah.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
That's right, yeah. They went Woke. They went Broke. I'm going to buy the range. That's right. We're all far from behind the bench rest now.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Other predictions. Maybe we'll get a good solid couple of weeks of rioting again, like Garrison said. Maybe it'll only take a year or two this time.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Didn't I predict that there would be a big public crime with a 3D printed gun last year?
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Yeah, and in the legislation too. I missed a death. We can also include it in the hope section. Matthew Iglesias, that motherfucker has been standing bullshit for 20 years. It just cannot continue. He's lost a juice a little bit. I think he's on the way out.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
After the house that Vivek Ramachandran, who grew up in the Truman Show house? Matt Gaetz. Matt Gaetz. Matt Gaetz, yeah. Named her after Matt Gaetz's childhood home.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Alcatraz. Asada Shakur. A sketchy guy named Steve. It's giving funny true crime. I love storytelling and I love you, so I can't wait.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
When I smoke weed, I get lost in the music. I like to isolate each instrument. The rhythmic bass, the harmonies on the piano, the sticky melody.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Careful, babe. There's someone crossing the street.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
If you feel different, you drive different. Don't drive high. It's dangerous and illegal everywhere. A message from NHTSA and the Ad Council.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
I really wanted to be a playboy model. Lingerie, topless. I said, yes, please.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Start rich if you want to be a freelance journalist because you'll progressively become poorer.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
You know who he is because of his pattern of behavior.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
He's just spinning the web for you to get trapped in it. He's everywhere and has been everywhere. It's so much worse and so much more widespread than I had anticipated.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
I've never seen so many women protect predatory men. And then me too happened. And then everybody else wanted to get pissed off because the white said it was okay. Problem. Problem.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
My oldest daughter, her first day in ninth grade, and I called to ask how I was doing.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
What turns me on is when a man sends me money. Like, I feel the moisture between my legs when a man sends me money. I'm like, oh, my God, it's go time. You actually sent it?
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
I have a digital twin and she's constantly evolving and how she gets used and what she says. And there's big implications around that. So I think this is a really exciting space to be thinking about.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Which is the exact same thing people said last year.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Could you believe this is generated by just firing a Roman candle in the air?
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Yeah, that's the emperor from the first Gladiator movie.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Yeah, I think that's good advice. I would say if you want to get started freelancing, it's a good idea to join the IWW Freelance Journalist Union. You can learn a lot from people who are freelancing there. You can learn who not to pitch, which editors are toxic as fuck, which is a surprisingly large amount.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
You can learn which email to send your pitches to and how to pitch if you're not familiar with how to pitch. I also teach sometimes journalism workshops at a community college. So if you have a community college near you, you might be able to get some either free or very cheap sort of advice and the real like nuts and bolts of journalism, like sending pitches and stuff like that.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
So let's start with this one. AI will be more impactful than the internet. Maybe.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
I'm leaning yes. It's a trick question. Because it is the internet.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
You're never going to do that. Mankind has always dreamed of knowing how to cook meats.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Alcatraz. Asada Shakur. A sketchy guy named Steve. It's giving funny true crime. I love storytelling and I love you, so I can't wait.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
When I smoke weed, I get lost in the music. I like to isolate each instrument. The rhythmic bass, the harmonies on the piano, the sticky melody.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Careful, babe. There's someone crossing the street.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
If you feel different, you drive different. Don't drive high. It's dangerous and illegal everywhere. A message from NHTSA and the Ad Council.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
I really wanted to be a playboy model. Lingerie, topless. I said, yes, please.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
You know who he is because of his pattern of behavior.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
He's just spinning the web for you to get trapped in it. He's everywhere and has been everywhere. It's so much worse and so much more widespread than I had anticipated.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
I think in terms of executive orders, he will try and further restrict access to asylum, try and further change. There are things he can do by executive order with ICE and CBP in terms of how they operate that he will try and do. It's not impossible that they will try and, again, immediately mobilize public health law against migrants like he did in 2020, right?
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
I've never seen so many women protect predatory men. And then me too happened. And then everybody else wanted to get pissed off because the white said it was okay. Problem. Problem.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
My oldest daughter, her first day in ninth grade, and I called to ask how I was doing.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
What turns me on is when a man sends me money. Like, I feel the moisture between my legs when a man sends me money. I'm like, oh, my God, it's go time. You actually sent it? Mm.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Yeah, those things could all be done without congressional support. We made a whole podcast about this, but Stephen Miller has suggested that they might do some of those things. So yeah, not impossible. Probably won't be a great day.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
So I'm pretty sure it is like... Content then probably.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Asada Shakur. A sketchy guy named Steve. It's giving funny true crime. I love storytelling and I love you, so I can't wait.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
Hey. Hey. Hey. Careful, babe. There's someone crossing the street.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
If you feel different, you drive different. Don't drive high. It's dangerous and illegal everywhere. A message from NHTSA and the Ad Council.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
I really wanted to be a playboy in my dog. Lingerie, topless. I said, yes, please.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
You know who he is because of his pattern of behavior.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
He's just spinning the web for you to get trapped in it. He's everywhere and has been everywhere. It's so much worse and so much more widespread than I had anticipated.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
I've never seen so many women protect predatory men. And then me too happened. And then everybody else wanted to get pissed off because the white said it was okay. Problem. Problem.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
My oldest daughter, her first day in ninth grade, and I called to ask how I was doing.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 164
What turns me on is when a man sends me money. Like, I feel the moisture between my legs when a man sends me money. I'm like, oh, my God, it's go time. You actually sent it? Mm.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
Safeguarding the Grid and the Plate: OT Insights with Aaron Crow, Host of PrOTect IT All Podcast
Oh, yeah.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
Safeguarding the Grid and the Plate: OT Insights with Aaron Crow, Host of PrOTect IT All Podcast
Right.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
Safeguarding the Grid and the Plate: OT Insights with Aaron Crow, Host of PrOTect IT All Podcast
Absolutely.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
Safeguarding the Grid and the Plate: OT Insights with Aaron Crow, Host of PrOTect IT All Podcast
So funny.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
Safeguarding the Grid and the Plate: OT Insights with Aaron Crow, Host of PrOTect IT All Podcast
Sure.
Bites & Bytes Podcast
Safeguarding the Grid and the Plate: OT Insights with Aaron Crow, Host of PrOTect IT All Podcast
Yeah.
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#030 - Philipp Erik Breitenfeld als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Es
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#030 - Philipp Erik Breitenfeld als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Ja.
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#030 - Philipp Erik Breitenfeld als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Sehr, sehr gerne mache ich.
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#030 - Philipp Erik Breitenfeld als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Ja, Challenge accepted. Auf jeden Fall. Das wird ein lustiges Ziel sein.
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#034 - Daniel Jung als Gast bei Bock auf Business
25 Minuten.
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#026 - Thibault Heck als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Ja, ja.
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#026 - Thibault Heck als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Ja.
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#026 - Thibault Heck als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Ja.
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#026 - Thibault Heck als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Ja.
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#026 - Thibault Heck als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Ja.
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#026 - Thibault Heck als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Ja.
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#026 - Thibault Heck als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Ja.
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#026 - Thibault Heck als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Untertitelung. BR 2018
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#026 - Thibault Heck als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Da
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#026 - Thibault Heck als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Ja.
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#026 - Thibault Heck als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Ja.
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#026 - Thibault Heck als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Ja.
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#026 - Thibault Heck als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Sehr spannend.
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#050 - Holger Bröer als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Ja.
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#029 - Robert Steffen als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Ja.
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#042 - René Borbonus als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Mhm.
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#042 - René Borbonus als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Mit Sicherheit, na klar.
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#025 - Vanessa Weber als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Ja.
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#028 - Norbert Streveld als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Ja,
Bock auf Business - Unternehmerstories unzensiert
#032 - Alexander Christiani als Gast bei Bock auf Business
Ja.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 1 - You Told Me No
In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets. 7,000 bodies out there or more. A forgotten asylum cemetery.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 1 - You Told Me No
Listen to Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 1 - You Told Me No
The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 1 - You Told Me No
Listen to Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 1 - You Told Me No
In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets. 7,000 bodies out there or more. A forgotten asylum cemetery.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 1 - You Told Me No
Do you hear my madness Laughter hides my fears Sorrow's depths are endless In this valley of tears I'm reaching out in desperation to the one who's holding the star.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 1 - You Told Me No
Listen to Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 1 - You Told Me No
How are you feeling about this, about the microphone and all of that?
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 1 - You Told Me No
The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
That's fist bump, man. It's like a punch card. You're going to get like a free latte soon.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
Yeah. Just don't say that code word that makes her cry. It's Dylan.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
pretty hardcore and not at all but yeah thousands of other guys did but it's okay he said hey he's like oh my god he's so formal so confident i mean how long did it take you to go out with him like between talking to him on the app and then the actual date
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
I'll take a date any day of the week.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
Oh, that's important.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
Yeah. Yeah, it's important.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
But that also sounds good. You want to set boundaries, and he should respect those boundaries.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
Those words have never crossed her lips. She's like, I'm surprised we haven't slept together yet.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
Sister, I'm with you. It's been five years since I've been broken up.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
We all know you obviously didn't hook up, but did you guys like kiss or hug or like do anything else that's like intimate?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
Yeah, I'm sorry. It wasn't like a backwards hug.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
You just said it again. Okay. Sorry, all the Dylans out there.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
Second date update. We'll be dialing his number. Yeah, sorry. Coming up.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
There is one thing that doesn't change in dating, and that's vibes. Like, you can tell if something happened on the date. You can pinpoint a moment usually. So if you don't feel like there was something, then maybe there wasn't.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
OK. OK. You got this. No big deal. Here we go.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: First Time Tinderer
Oh, my God. I wouldn't even show it up. Send me the card before the date.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Give Him The Golden
All right, Michael. I'm starting to kind of see if it's more than a metaphor.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Give Him The Golden
You can eat peanut butter together on the couch.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Give Him The Golden
Don't ask. Just ask Michael. Just ask Michael. We'll pay for this. I don't want to call, like, pet control right now. Get her.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Give Him The Golden
Yeah, two barks is a yes.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Give Him The Golden
Tomorrow? She's going to have a newspaper in her mouth.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Give Him The Golden
Oh, there's a dog catcher out there who's looking for her right now.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Give Him The Golden
I low-key want him to be into it because I want to hear an argument between them when they start growling at each other. Oh, God.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Give Him The Golden
But like, I'm sorry, even me, I was like, when were you going to tell him?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Give Him The Golden
But you'll get here. And it'll be a party.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Give Him The Golden
Don't have a beard. No beard. A beard. Why? That's easy. Even if a guy did have a beard, if he liked you enough, he'd just shave it off. Is there a reason?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Give Him The Golden
Well, and it goes to show we don't always read it. We just say she's beautiful. Wait, hold on.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Give Him The Golden
No way! When I brought that up, I was kidding. Most guys, it takes forever to grow a beard out.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Give Him The Golden
Okay. Please tell me you wore the same outfit from that picture.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Give Him The Golden
He's like, wow, it's so long.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Give Him The Golden
When Brooke says it, it's definitely humping involved.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Give Him The Golden
Yeah, he's expecting a black lab and got a golden retriever. What do you think of that, Natella?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Give Him The Golden
There are guys that do not kiss on the first date.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Give Him The Golden
We heard about your dating life, so we hunted you down.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Give Him The Golden
The lawyers are really upset about that.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Give Him The Golden
Ours was number three at one point.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
Okay. So this is not as romantic. Maybe text the address of the corner in case one of us wants to swoop by. Oh. Alexis is in the market for a new TV.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
Brooke and Jeffrey in the morning.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets. 7,000 bodies out there or more. A forgotten asylum cemetery.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
It was my family's mystery.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
Why is my cat not here? And I go in and she's eating my lunch.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
That takes the date to a different type of relationship.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
She matched back with him.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets. 7,000 bodies out there or more. A forgotten asylum cemetery.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
I used to drive a car with my feet.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
Did you awkwardly carry it into a restaurant?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
It was my family's mystery.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
What? There's no way she was expecting that. That is wild. You did it in front of her?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
Way to set the tone. I feel like it's better after, because then you know if she actually likes you, but that's okay. That's true.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
I can't get over that.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
You open the world of Netflix and chill for her now. She's busy. She's catching up. She's got to invite people over. Or she's just chilling by herself. Yeah, true.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
Murders in the Apartment.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
Just because she mentioned she didn't have a TV. And she showed up. It wasn't even at the end.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
Why is my cat not here? And I go in and she's eating my lunch.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
He should be giving her the snacks then and putting her on one.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
No. I don't think that. I think it meant like you leave. Maybe you just take the TV with you at this point.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Eyes Closed Mouth Open
What's up, y'all? I'm AJ Andrews, pro softball player, sports analyst, and the first woman to win a Rawlings gold glove. On my new podcast, Dropping Diamonds, we dive headfirst into the world of softball by sharing powerful stories, insights, and conversations that inspire and empower. It's time to drop bombs and diamonds. Dropping Diamonds with A.J.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Eyes Closed Mouth Open
Andrews is an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Athletes Unlimited Softball League and Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to Dropping Diamonds with A.J. Andrews on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Eyes Closed Mouth Open
Did she leave them?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Eyes Closed Mouth Open
What's up, y'all? I'm A.J. Andrews, pro softball player, sports analyst, and the first woman to win a Rawlings gold glove. On my new podcast, Dropping Diamonds, we dive headfirst into the world of softball by sharing powerful stories, insights, and conversations that inspire and empower. It's time to drop bombs and diamonds. Dropping Diamonds with A.J.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Eyes Closed Mouth Open
Andrews is an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Athletes Unlimited Softball League and Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to Dropping Diamonds with A.J. Andrews on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Quit For You
What's up, y'all? I'm A.J. Andrews, pro softball player, sports analyst, and the first woman to win a Rawlings gold glove. On my new podcast, Dropping Diamonds, we dive headfirst into the world of softball by sharing powerful stories, insights, and conversations that inspire and empower. It's time to drop bombs and diamonds. Dropping Diamonds with A.J.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Quit For You
It's kind of his money, actually.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Quit For You
Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Quit For You
Are your money skills total trash? Well, trust me, you are not alone. Personal finance ignorance is as American as apple pie, but you can improve. Think, Matt, if your emergency fund was invested, especially given the volatility we're experiencing right now. Ouchies. Investing, it is ultimately a necessity, but you've got to keep that emergency fund accessible.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Quit For You
Andrews is an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Athletes Unlimited Softball League and Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to Dropping Diamonds with A.J. Andrews on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Quit For You
It needs to be cash parked in your savings. It's time to learn, and How to Money is here to bring the knowledge. Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Quit For You
Why is my cat not here? And I go in and she's eating my lunch.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Quit For You
Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Quit For You
What's up, y'all? I'm AJ Andrews, pro softball player, sports analyst, and the first woman to win a Rawlings gold glove. On my new podcast, Dropping Diamonds, we dive headfirst into the world of softball by sharing powerful stories, insights, and conversations that inspire and empower. It's time to drop bombs and diamonds. Dropping Diamonds with A.J.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Quit For You
Andrews is an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Athletes Unlimited Softball League and Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to Dropping Diamonds with A.J. Andrews on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Quit For You
It's awkward. It's Tuesday. It's awkward Tuesday phone call.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Quit For You
Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Quit For You
Are your money skills total trash? Well, trust me, you are not alone. Personal finance ignorance is as American as apple pie, but you can improve. Think, Matt, if your emergency fund was invested, especially given the volatility we're experiencing right now. Ouchies. Investing, it is ultimately a necessity, but you've got to keep that emergency fund accessible.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Quit For You
Well, we don't know for sure.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Quit For You
It needs to be cash parked in your savings. It's time to learn, and How to Money is here to bring the knowledge. Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Quit For You
It wouldn't be that crazy if it wasn't after a month of talking. Yeah, that is the craziest part. It wouldn't be crazy if it was dating a year.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Quit For You
Why is my cat not here? And I go in and she's eating my lunch.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Quit For You
Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Don't Love My Boss
I can't. You can't. We all can't.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Don't Love My Boss
Something about Mary Poppins? Exactly. This is fun.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Don't Love My Boss
He's an endocrinologist who found a way to stimulate insulin-producing cells using, wait for it, the saliva of a Gila monster.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Don't Love My Boss
We even talked to some of the experts behind these breakthroughs. It's a week full of fact-packed stories you won't want to miss. So listen to the part-time genius countdown of the 25 greatest science ideas of the past 25 years. Starting Monday, March 3rd on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Don't Love My Boss
Dressing. Dressing. Oh, French dressing.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Don't Love My Boss
Join us for heartfelt conversations with remarkable guests like David Oyelowo, Mel Robbins, Martin Sheen, Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Billy Porter.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Don't Love My Boss
Something about Mary Poppins? Exactly. This is fun.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Don't Love My Boss
Join us for heartfelt conversations with remarkable guests like David Oyelowo, Mel Robbins, Martin Sheen, Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Billy Porter.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Don't Love My Boss
Listen to My Legacy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is My Legacy.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Don't Love My Boss
Listen to My Legacy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is My Legacy.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Don't Love My Boss
He's an endocrinologist who found a way to stimulate insulin-producing cells using, wait for it, the saliva of a Gila monster.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Don't Love My Boss
They're like trading over bet money there.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Don't Love My Boss
We even talked to some of the experts behind these breakthroughs. It's a week full of fact-packed stories you won't want to miss. So listen to the part-time genius countdown of the 25 greatest science ideas of the past 25 years. Starting Monday, March 3rd on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Don't Love My Boss
At least you didn't text your crush, though. Yeah. I think that would have been better. I'm still happy about it.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Don't Love My Boss
She had a meeting to tell us.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Don't Love My Boss
It is gone. It is left.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: I Don't Love My Boss
Dressing. Dressing. Oh, French dressing.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ruin A Birthday
In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets. 7,000 bodies out there or more.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ruin A Birthday
That's because of the tone and our blaze.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ruin A Birthday
No, I'm just saying that's not our wheelhouse. Yeah.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ruin A Birthday
Ooh, yeah, boy. That's where we thrive.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ruin A Birthday
In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets. 7,000 bodies out there or more. A forgotten asylum cemetery.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
Brooke and Jeffrey in the morning.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
It's kind of crazy because, you know, Catherine's been my biggest fan and supporter. Oh. Wow. She should be.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
Yeah, you know, the more we went out, I just found out there's more to life than just tying seatbelts around people's necks so they can't breathe. There is?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
Yeah, and that's exactly why this Friday is actually going to be my final Karjitsu match.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
What? We're retiring?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
You're giving it up? Well, I just think our relationship is just too important to risk it anymore.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
I would go see two old guys in a car and go at it. Hold on, my grip is weird.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
Awesome. Thank you guys for all your help.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
Brooke and Jeffrey in the morning.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
Why is my cat not here? And I go in and she's eating my lunch.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
What's up, y'all? I'm AJ Andrews, pro softball player, sports analyst, and the first woman to win a Rawlings gold glove. On my new podcast, Dropping Diamonds, we dive headfirst into the world of softball by sharing powerful stories, insights, and conversations that inspire and empower. It's time to drop bombs and diamonds. Dropping Diamonds with A.J.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
Andrews is an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Athletes Unlimited Softball League and Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to Dropping Diamonds with A.J. Andrews on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
My husband cheated on me with two women. He wants to stay together because he has cancer.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
Well, John, that's because it's dump-em week, and this user writes, Last week, we had an attempted break-in. I asked my husband, who was supposed to be at his mom's, to come over and change the locks, but his mom told me he wasn't with her. And it took me less than an hour to find the first two women he was cheating on me with. Did she leave them?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
Well, to find out how this story ends, follow the OK Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
Why is my cat not here? And I go in and she's eating my lunch.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
What's up, y'all? I'm A.J. Andrews, pro softball player, sports analyst, and the first woman to win a Rawlings gold glove. On my new podcast, Dropping Diamonds, we dive headfirst into the world of softball by sharing powerful stories, insights, and conversations that inspire and empower. It's time to drop bombs and diamonds. Dropping Diamonds with A.J.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
So she was proud of you, though.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
Andrews is an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Athletes Unlimited Softball League and Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to Dropping Diamonds with A.J. Andrews on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
Oh, I can totally imagine her when you're in the middle of a match or whatever it is, her banging on the window cheering for you of the car. I see it.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
Okay. Sorry. We're on a mission. We want to hook you back up with Mike.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
He can throw a punch.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
Get the kids into car jitsu, little baby seats in the back, and then they're fighting out of the baby seats. Well, they can start in those little driver cars they get when they're babies, you know?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
Can you not tell me this?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update UPDATE: Carjitsu Crazy
Why does it seem more dangerous if you fall in the water?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Closure Call: Case of the Missing Roommate
What's up, y'all? I'm A.J. Andrews, pro softball player, sports analyst, and the first woman to win a Rawlings gold glove. On my new podcast, Dropping Diamonds, we dive headfirst into the world of softball by sharing powerful stories, insights, and conversations that inspire and empower. It's time to drop bombs and diamonds. Dropping Diamonds with A.J.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Closure Call: Case of the Missing Roommate
What's up, y'all? I'm AJ Andrews, pro softball player, sports analyst, and the first woman to win a Rawlings gold glove. On my new podcast, Dropping Diamonds, we dive headfirst into the world of softball by sharing powerful stories, insights, and conversations that inspire and empower. It's time to drop bombs and diamonds. Dropping Diamonds with A.J.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Closure Call: Case of the Missing Roommate
Andrews is an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Athletes Unlimited Softball League and Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to Dropping Diamonds with A.J. Andrews on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Closure Call: Case of the Missing Roommate
Andrews is an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Athletes Unlimited Softball League and Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to Dropping Diamonds with A.J. Andrews on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Cowboy Confusion
Don't do that to me.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Cowboy Confusion
This is a con. I'm conning you to get the Delano painting. We can do this together.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Cowboy Confusion
This is a con. I'm conning you to get the Delano painting. We can do this together.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Incriminating News At 11
In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets. 7,000 bodies out there or more. A forgotten asylum cemetery.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Incriminating News At 11
It was my family's mystery.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Incriminating News At 11
Why is my cat not here? And I go in and she's eating my lunch.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Incriminating News At 11
That's right.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Incriminating News At 11
In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets. 7,000 bodies out there or more. A forgotten asylum cemetery.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Incriminating News At 11
It was my family's mystery.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Incriminating News At 11
How aggressive was the hug?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Incriminating News At 11
Why is my cat not here? And I go in and she's eating my lunch.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Incriminating News At 11
That's a nice compliment to get.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: I Brought My Mom
In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets. 7,000 bodies out there or more.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: I Brought My Mom
Why is my cat not here? And I go in and she's eating my lunch.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: I Brought My Mom
Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: I Brought My Mom
In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets. 7,000 bodies out there or more. A forgotten asylum cemetery.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: I Brought My Mom
Why is my cat not here? And I go in and she's eating my lunch.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: I Brought My Mom
Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
I didn't want a million dollars. I wanted a career. I wanted a way to figure out how to do something that I loved for the rest of my life.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
Jeff, how long does an exiversary last? The lifetime or ten years?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
Taxed in anniversary celebrators. Yeah, it could be a thing.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets. 7,000 bodies out there or more. A forgotten asylum cemetery.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
I didn't want a million dollars. I wanted a career. I wanted a way to figure out how to do something that I loved for the rest of my life.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
I go to bed every night and I just stream it on 5,000 different laptops.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
I'm sorry, guys, but I'm tired of those ratings.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
And this is kind of funny because there's two things. They either look really good in their profile, there's no way they look like that in real life, or some people look way better in person.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
Like you see their profile and they're like, oh my gosh, like you look better in natural lighting.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
Her hair is just flowing. TV commercials them all. For what, Jeff? She lists off 10 side effects.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
Did she laugh or was she disgusted?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
She at least knew you were trying to joke. She laughed and she slowly put the hat back.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
You should be in a Headlines commercial.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
She has a piece of information. I don't know what it is. She found something out. She saw something.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
She sounds more like Go-Gurt Goddess. Wait, Goddess is still good. I'll think of something funnier. Oh, Danimals. I love them. Oh, a Danimal. She's acting like a dainty Danimal.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets. 7,000 bodies out there or more. A forgotten asylum cemetery.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
I don't know. I swear things can jump out.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
He doesn't know that she knows.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
Oh, come on. I thought you were about to, like, just.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
I'm glad there's no strings attached to this guy.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
You were shopping inside of her purse.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Don't Take Me Out To The Ballgame
What's up, y'all? I'm A.J. Andrews, pro softball player, sports analyst, and the first woman to win a Rawlings gold glove. On my new podcast, Dropping Diamonds, we dive headfirst into the world of softball by sharing powerful stories, insights, and conversations that inspire and empower. It's time to drop bombs and diamonds. Dropping Diamonds with A.J.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Don't Take Me Out To The Ballgame
What's up, y'all? I'm AJ Andrews, pro softball player, sports analyst, and the first woman to win a Rawlings gold glove. On my new podcast, Dropping Diamonds, we dive headfirst into the world of softball by sharing powerful stories, insights, and conversations that inspire and empower. It's time to drop bombs and diamonds. Dropping Diamonds with A.J.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Don't Take Me Out To The Ballgame
Andrews is an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Athletes Unlimited Softball League and Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to Dropping Diamonds with A.J. Andrews on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Don't Take Me Out To The Ballgame
Andrews is an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Athletes Unlimited Softball League and Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to Dropping Diamonds with A.J. Andrews on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Call Her Daddy
Jack Harlow: I’m *Not* Vanilla Baby (FBF)
I'll choke you, but I ain't no killer, baby.
Call Her Daddy
Jack Harlow: I’m *Not* Vanilla Baby (FBF)
I'm vanilla, baby. I choke you. I love your takes on my voice.
Call Her Daddy
Jack Harlow: I’m *Not* Vanilla Baby (FBF)
Yeah, there is. Like you. What were you like as a kid?
Call Her Daddy
Alix Earle: Secrets, Sex & Scandals (FBF)
I'm such a dumbass. I'm fucking dead. Okay, do any of your exes have similarities?
Call Her Daddy
Alix Earle: Secrets, Sex & Scandals (FBF)
I'm sticking him with my hand of his asshole.
Call Her Daddy
Alix Earle: Secrets, Sex & Scandals (FBF)
hello i have someone here oh my god there's so many hi guys hi everyone oh my god are you thomas i've seen you in the tick tock videos are these your dinosaurs what are their names
Call Her Daddy
Alix Earle: Secrets, Sex & Scandals (FBF)
Wait, you turned the corner and he was like.
Call Her Daddy
Alix Earle: Secrets, Sex & Scandals (FBF)
Let's just drink to that because why the fuck not? I definitely shouldn't have said that. Okay. What you know we appreciate is the motherfucking honesty, Alex Earl.
Call Her Daddy
Alix Earle: Secrets, Sex & Scandals (FBF)
Oh, oh my God. What am I supposed to do Penelope?
Call Her Daddy
Alix Earle: Secrets, Sex & Scandals (FBF)
I brought my air mattress. I obviously wanted to like get the full experience.
Call Her Daddy
Alix Earle: Secrets, Sex & Scandals (FBF)
Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my fucking god. I don't want to put these
Call Her Daddy
Alix Earle: Secrets, Sex & Scandals (FBF)
Hi, nice to meet you. So nice to meet you finally.
Call Her Daddy
Alix Earle: Secrets, Sex & Scandals (FBF)
There's grass we have grass like this when do they get grass I see the front door we just have to infiltrate I'm literally shaking
Call Her Daddy
Alix Earle: Secrets, Sex & Scandals (FBF)
I was inspired after we went to the Beyonce concert. Okay, give me. I thought it was good. Give me it again. Baby, it's you.
Call Her Daddy
Alix Earle: Secrets, Sex & Scandals (FBF)
But if someone... But if someone told me to sing like myself, I'd be like... Like, I couldn't.
Call Her Daddy
Chace Crawford: Gossip Girl, House Parties & Dating Disasters (FBF)
They're like 25 years old. Completely. Completely. Not like high school kids.
Call Her Daddy
Chace Crawford: Gossip Girl, House Parties & Dating Disasters (FBF)
Toronto. Toronto, yes.
Call Her Daddy
Chace Crawford: Gossip Girl, House Parties & Dating Disasters (FBF)
Is that the one with the dog?
Call Her Daddy
Chace Crawford: Gossip Girl, House Parties & Dating Disasters (FBF)
I'm trying to figure out who the fuck is the one with the dog.
Call Her Daddy
Chace Crawford: Gossip Girl, House Parties & Dating Disasters (FBF)
It was so stressful.
Call Her Daddy
Chace Crawford: Gossip Girl, House Parties & Dating Disasters (FBF)
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Call Her Daddy
Chace Crawford: Gossip Girl, House Parties & Dating Disasters (FBF)
It's like a $20 million. Like that's all BS. Like that's like- That's what I was like.
Call Her Daddy
Chace Crawford: Gossip Girl, House Parties & Dating Disasters (FBF)
Oh, so you've really.
Call Her Daddy
Chace Crawford: Gossip Girl, House Parties & Dating Disasters (FBF)
All this stuff. I couldn't turn it off. I mean, it's amazing. It's just great.
Call Her Daddy
Rob’s Love Island Tell All (FBF)
I said the funniest thing back. I think it went over his head.
Call Her Daddy
Rob’s Love Island Tell All (FBF)
I gave him like a bot response. I thought it'd be really funny. And he just said, thanks, Rob. You and Lee should have won. And then we just talked about the show for a while.
Call Her Daddy
Rob’s Love Island Tell All (FBF)
Or it would be, like, $2.99. Right, right. They'd make so much money. Like an OnlyFans link for that clip.
Campus Files
Dissension in the Ranks
Some students at Columbia University say the U.S. News and World Report college ranking was an important factor in their decision to attend the school.
Campus Files
Dissension in the Ranks
Legacies shape who we are, but who's shaping them? In the new season of Black History Year, our chart-topping history podcast by Push Black, we're breaking down the meaning and power behind the personal, familial, and systemic legacies that define our world.
Campus Files
Dissension in the Ranks
From the iconic legacies of Black family dynasties to the far-reaching impact of laws like the death penalty, we're diving deep into how political and cultural forces have historically molded Black communities and what it means for our future. Join us on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts for a new season of Black History Year, dropping this February.
Campus Files
Hot for Chancellor - Part 2
It was the biggest academic scandal in the history of college sports and probably in the history of academia.
Campus Files
Hot for Chancellor - Part 2
A chancellor having a pornographic double life is an extremely rare case.
Candace
UPDATE! Taylor Swift Goes Full Dragon Against Blake Lively | Candace Ep 144
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Candace
Straight Husbands vs Ryan Reynolds | Tucker Carlson vs Brigitte Macron | Candace Ep 161
But there is another thought as to why Macron behaves so insolent and noisy. He is like a person who makes an indecent noise. He moves chairs and dishes in a noisy way in order to create some kind of rumble to confuse people. Macron has a reason for this. Screaming suspicions about their alliance with Brigitte need to be distracted by something.
Candace
Straight Husbands vs Ryan Reynolds | Tucker Carlson vs Brigitte Macron | Candace Ep 161
Our political observer Alexander Khristenko is talking about an increasing scandal.
Candace
Straight Husbands vs Ryan Reynolds | Tucker Carlson vs Brigitte Macron | Candace Ep 161
One of the recent joint appearances in public is Emmanuel and Brigitte Macron. Vice President of the United States, Vance, also came to Paris with his wife. They even turned out to be in dresses of a similar tone. But if Vance's ear is traditionally accompanied, Brigitte's comes out differently. She herself inevitably becomes the center of attention and discussion.
Candace
Straight Husbands vs Ryan Reynolds | Tucker Carlson vs Brigitte Macron | Candace Ep 161
I put all my professional career on the fact that Brigitte Macron, the first lady of France, was born a man. To the long-standing investigation of three French journalists, the ultra-right American activist Candace Wounds has now joined. An influential blogger with an audience of 4 million people.
Candace
Straight Husbands vs Ryan Reynolds | Tucker Carlson vs Brigitte Macron | Candace Ep 161
She released a whole series of materials in which she claims that this boy in the old family photo, named Jean-Michel Tragneau, is not Brigitte Macron's brother, but she is.
Candace
Straight Husbands vs Ryan Reynolds | Tucker Carlson vs Brigitte Macron | Candace Ep 161
There is now a member of the European Parliament from France. who does not think the U.S. represents the values of the Statue of Liberty anymore. They want the Statue of Liberty back. So is President Trump going to send the Statue of Liberty back to France?
Candace
Straight Husbands vs Ryan Reynolds | Tucker Carlson vs Brigitte Macron | Candace Ep 161
Absolutely not. And my advice to that unnamed, low-level French politician would be to remind them that it's only because of the United States of America that the French are not speaking German right now. So they should be very grateful to our great country.
Chief Change Officer
#245 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part One
Until next time, take care.
Code Story
S10 Bonus: Matt Pierce, Immediate (Replay)
It's interesting. It goes back to like one of the first questions you asked about like exercise, right?
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
They've landed on this home device. They're all in on robotics right now. Robotics is the next big thing at Apple. They're talking about humanoids. They're talking about mobile robots that go around your home. Now they're talking about this home device. It's a robotic neck connected to an iPad.
Coder Radio
585: From Ops to Dev and Back Again
It can swivel 360 degrees, bend, move up and down, move around on top of a table or a desk, video conferencing. Okay. But it's essentially your first Apple intelligence device. It's an AI-ified iPad, a fully voice-controlled system that can move around on your table. It's going to be pretty niche, but it's also going to be pretty cool, like the Vision Pro. It sounds...
Coder Radio
592: C++ Safety Dance
This deep dive has been an incredible journey. We started with the basics of the command line and file management, then explored the intricacies of system services, networking, storage management, and even security. We delved into configuration files, uncovered the power of automation, and even touched on advanced concepts like containerization and cloud computing.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Conan Recaps the Oscars with Mike Sweeney
Oh, that's a good idea. Shove you into her. Yeah. And you were telling Tack to be quiet.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Conan Recaps the Oscars with Mike Sweeney
That's the first time they put the orchestra that high, right?
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Conan Recaps the Oscars with Mike Sweeney
How's the crowd? How's the crowd out there? How's the crowd doing? How's the crowd doing?
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Conan Recaps the Oscars with Mike Sweeney
What's the process of you doing that and then getting that into the teleprompter for him in time? Like, how much time was there?
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Conan Recaps the Oscars with Mike Sweeney
Oh, if we're just going to list names, I can do that too.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Conan Recaps the Oscars with Mike Sweeney
It's not about the Oscars! I don't want to talk about it!
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Conan Recaps the Oscars with Mike Sweeney
No, no, no. Yeah. No, that's in your head. I'm going to say so. That's in your head. That's in your head.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Conan Recaps the Oscars with Mike Sweeney
You could abuse people on multiple levels.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Conan Recaps the Oscars with Mike Sweeney
Conan O'Brien needs a friend. With Conan O'Brien, Sonam Ovsessian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao. Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair. And our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Conan Recaps the Oscars with Mike Sweeney
Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brit Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Conan Recaps the Oscars with Mike Sweeney
And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Conan Recaps the Oscars with Mike Sweeney
Oh, he's naked, but he won't lie down.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Conan Recaps the Oscars with Mike Sweeney
That's a... What a... What? I said yes to what?
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Nicholas Hoult
Fall is here, hear the yell Back to school, ring the bell Brand new shoes, walkin' blues Climb the fence, books and pens I can tell that we are gonna be friends
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Nicholas Hoult
That's true. I tell some real corkers. Did you just get on me last episode about using the phrase cock of the walk and you just use corkers? I tell, you know, sometimes I... A real Lulu? Yeah.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Nicholas Hoult
You're the prince of you're certainly a little prince. I'll say that.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Nicholas Hoult
Oh my God. Listen, and you spill. How did it turn into this?
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
Can I say something very quickly? He was here, and obviously we all love him. And Matty always sets out a basket of snacks and stuff. And so he was standing talking to you and some other people. And before he left, he's like, and now it is time for me to leave. But first, a little treat. No. And he went over and grabbed like a little thing and took it with him. It was amazing.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
You're mad at the food because it's keeping you alive.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
They're like little protests. Yeah, they are. Sweet.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
She took it all out on me. She would kick the dishwasher and then ignore me for two days. We're not going to do that.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
I know. This is the life of the party these days.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
But there's a difference between inhaling food and are you doing the kind of open mouth, that's the thing that I have a misophonia for. I can't stand when people- An open mouth chewer?
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
Someone very close in my life is an open mouth chewer.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
Don't be stupid. Watch Zero. Come on. Why isn't that going to be the tagline? No, that is the tagline.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
Recently on the podcast, we talked about how you could mail into a comic book advertisement and get the Polaris nuclear submarine.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
Yeah, I did. And I remember the hovercraft too, and they're distinctly two different things. Okay. So the submarine does send you a But apparently it's been very hard for people to track down. And I found the third point of singularity blog. It looks like they went on a kind of hunt themselves and ultimately found it. It's the other tab, Eduardo, if you don't mind.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
And this is what you end up getting. And it's like a cardboard submarine.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
Really? Because I see just cardboard that's kind of pinned together and certainly not going to do well in the water. Oh, well, yeah.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
That's not bad. I'm going to talk to the person who does the lip smacking. Who is it? I can't say. Why? Who? Oh, wait, we're on camera. Who? Say.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
For the listener, this looks like a cardboard submarine seated in the middle of a big lawn.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
The thing that I more remember was this hovercraft. And when I said last time that I thought it was a kit, that's what the hovercraft is. You were supposed to take your motor out of your vacuum and build this hovercraft. So let's go to the other tab here.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
And then scroll down and you can see on this blog. Wait, go back up to see what this blog is named. Dwyer and Michaels.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
Yeah. Now scroll down and you can see that the guy built it. Okay. There's a bunch of other ads. Oh, boy. That's it. He's building it? Yeah. Okay. Well, there you go. And then, yeah, play that video.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
But no kid that's, you know, an eight-year-old kid is going to be able to build that. I guess it's a nice project with your, you know, scout troop leader or your dad.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
No kid from the 50s that took the motor out of their vacuum cleaner would get away unscathed.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
Wait, you haven't told her? You haven't told her? No, I've told her, but it's gotten to the point where I can't say it anymore.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
Do you remember, too, like the x-ray gogs? There was also a thing where you could go from being a scrawny little kid to a big kind of like buff guy. And there's a little picture of tough guys kicking sand on a little guy on the beach.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
McDonald's Monopoly. Oh, that's different because that was Rick.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
I mentioned McDonald's Monopoly, although to Sona's point, it's been explained now through documentaries that it was all a scam. It was rigged. But as a kid, you know, you were sold on the promise of like, oh, if I just buy a bunch of fries and we keep eating at McDonald's and we get these little game pieces, we can win a mansion or, you know, some really cool prizes.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
And you're just constantly after the chase. Well, the real win there is the health that you got from all those fries.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
Our generation reminds me of the Columbia House Records.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
I love this person more than life itself. And I have faults, too. And so I'm probably greater faults. I'm sure I have greater faults. It's been discussed, and it's been noted, and it's been put into the record, and there's nothing more I can do about it.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonam Ovsessian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao. Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair. And our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brit Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
So you think you can put like a decibel meter on that person to make sure they don't pass a certain volume, maybe?
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
But that's the problem. It's not the level of volume. It's almost worse that it's slightly quiet.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
Because then you start, like, I start straining to hear it. It's much my fault.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
I didn't have this oppressive sibling thing. I think for me, it was just, let's get this over with so I can do fun things and live life. Food wasn't that exciting.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
Live life. You happen to be right. Yeah. Yes, you're correct.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
Jazz Pixie. The Theodore Roosevelt 14 volumes gotta be read by noon.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
My guest today... You have some deep... I have to go home and reconsider some things.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
I take it from you. My guest... No, not guest yet. I got it. I got it. Oh, no! You, of all people, and you yourself are always admitting you're just projecting.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
And chewing gum implies all of that to you, that you don't care about your work, you're an artist, just because you eat chewing gum?
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Lizzy Caplan Returns
Because that's the going rate. It's actually a bargain at this point. Yeah.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Jeff Goldblum Returns (Re-Release)
And suddenly he's talking to me and I see Bob Dylan scuttle away.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Jeff Goldblum Returns (Re-Release)
I don't think it did either. Sex bomb.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Jeff Goldblum Returns (Re-Release)
I can tell that we are going to be friends.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Jeff Goldblum Returns (Re-Release)
Sleep. No, no. I mean, you can't be normal.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Jeff Goldblum Returns (Re-Release)
The Coburn is the Cary Treatment. Cary Treatment is a 1972 American crime thriller film by Blake Edwards, baseball, blah, blah, blah. Yes. It takes place in Boston. In Boston. Dr. Peter Cary, played by James Coburn, is a pathologist who moves to Boston where he starts working.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Jeff Goldblum Returns (Re-Release)
Oh, yeah. Hey there, Georgie Girl.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Jeff Goldblum Returns (Re-Release)
Here is, did you park in our lot? Because we validate. Yeah, I did. Okay. The guy completely loses his fervor. Catch a blue. Oh, okay. So you go out the way you came. Just take the elevator.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Jeff Goldblum Returns (Re-Release)
Like, fuck it. The Robert Duvall. Yeah. I was going to say Robert Duvall. Godfather 3.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Jeff Goldblum Returns (Re-Release)
Really? Really? I laugh out loud over and over again.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Jeff Goldblum Returns (Re-Release)
Goodbye. Goodbye. Oh, man. Oh, my God. Oh, God.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Jeff Goldblum Returns (Re-Release)
I love how there's no sacred cows anymore.
Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
Jeff Goldblum Returns (Re-Release)
Oh, fuck. Oh, fuck. I had to take my earphones off.
Consider This from NPR
Reporting on how America reduced the number of opioid deaths
Psychologist Dolly Chug studies the lengths we will go to protect the way we see ourselves.
Consider This from NPR
Reporting on how America reduced the number of opioid deaths
We care about whether we're seen as a good person, whether others see us as a good person, and whether we feel like good people.
Consider This from NPR
Reporting on how America reduced the number of opioid deaths
Ideas about our self-image. That's on the TED Radio Hour podcast from NPR.
Consider This from NPR
Reporting on how America reduced the number of opioid deaths
Since Donald Trump took office in January, a lot has happened. The White House Budget Office ordered a pause on all federal grants and loans. The impact of the Trump administration's tariffs is already being felt in President Trump's efforts to radically remake the federal government. The NPR Politics Podcast covers it all.
Consider This from NPR
Reporting on how America reduced the number of opioid deaths
Keep up with what's happening in Washington and beyond with the NPR Politics Podcast. Listen every day.
Consider This from NPR
A devastating earthquake brings more uncertainty to Myanmar
All of us wouldn't be here right now. Sammy wouldn't be here. Tina wouldn't be here. Wally wouldn't be here. Anyone that we know wouldn't be here.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Show Up As The Most CONFIDENT Version Of Yourself with Kim Rittberg Digital Video Expert & Content Strategist
for what you're gonna hear, start learning and growing. Inevitably, something will happen. No one succeeds alone. You don't stop and look around once in a while. You could miss it. I'm on this journey with me.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
#502 Vision, Faith, and Making Room for MIRACLES with Heather
I ask you to try to find your passion...
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
#502 Vision, Faith, and Making Room for MIRACLES with Heather
what you're gonna hear start learning and growing inevitably something will happen no one succeeds alone you don't stop and look around once in a while you could miss it i'm on this journey with me
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
#502 Vision, Faith, and Making Room for MIRACLES with Heather
So my foundation is my faith in God.
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
That's such a light put off of like, don't burn down the ship.
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
It's going to fall out of favor. Lock in until the next shiver or run away.
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
I don't care if that dude, like, killed your family. Like, don't be alone on the ship. He's mad because they're not following his idea.
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
I was keeping him safe. It's like, is it morally sound to put this kid into a contact sport?
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
If I walked in, if I was on a 19, let this kid play football.
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
That was like, Oh, was that a win?
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
When you put it that way, he's not dead.
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
You're watching a movie. You know what it is, and you're like, oh!
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
As the realization hit me. And I finally did scream.
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
I let out Most high-pitched scream. It's always the citizens. I let out the shrillest, most high-pitched scream I ever have in my life. My arm stretched out. My arm stretched out. My arm stretched out. I kept crying all night. I let out the shrillest most high-pitched scream I ever have in my life. My arms stretched out and reaching for the door to the hallway. So he's like a full Scooby-Doo.
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
If he hadn't have punched me, I wouldn't have stormed off.
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
There's a crumb. There is a speckle.
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
I think I would rather be shot.
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
Our only option is to do a complete barrel roll. No, absolutely not. I'm not fucking doing that, no. Yeah, no. No, kill me, please.
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
No, no, no. That was a break. That was a break for sure.
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
Okay, now your accent is like... Redeemed. Well, no, because these are American sailors on a British ship. Afraid of the queen, knight. That, by the way, is like a hand of God pull for you. This becomes a British story after you completely made up the British part of it. Redeemed.
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
They're on a ghost ship with a giant skull in the clouds looking down on them, apparently. Yeah.
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
You know, why did you think it was British? You just said at the beginning, he said when we started the call, he said it in a normal voice, oh, they're British, and then he kept doing it. I thought you had info, I didn't. Why did you assume they were British?
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
You have to spend however much money this dude's covered.
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
To maybe save a little, a couple pence. Maybe we commission a $40 artist on Fiverr.
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
We reach out to him and we're like, here you go. And it's like an MS Paint. I would be insulted if he didn't use it.
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
No, no. Now that makes it weirder because it's a crew of British men being like, was that woman British? No, no, no, no, no, no. It should have been saved for this. It should have been saved for this scenario. Shut up. Shut up. I'm tired. You are, you are. No, absolutely not. Okay. Shut up. Quit.
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
Called Spencer. All of these guys from New England, from Jersey. It's kind of fitting, New England.
CreepCast
My Crew And I Are Stuck Aboard An Abandoned Ship | Creep Cast
I didn't mean it. I love the captain.
CreepCast
Azalea's Cookhouse Is A Family Restaurant
My personal property. What we're doing here is a crime.
CreepCast
Azalea's Cookhouse Is A Family Restaurant
I can see you watching in the night. Come along with me. I've been waiting for the sunlight.
CreepCast
Azalea's Cookhouse Is A Family Restaurant
When I feel cold, you warm me. And when I feel I can't go on, I come and pull you.
CreepCast
Azalea's Cookhouse Is A Family Restaurant
Baby hair with a woman's eyes. I can see you watching in the night Come along with me I've been waiting for the sunlight
CreepCast
Azalea's Cookhouse Is A Family Restaurant
When I feel cold, you warm me. And when I feel I can't go on, I come and pull you.
Crime Junkie
UPDATE: Beaumont Children
You can find all the source material for this episode on our website, CrimeJunkiePodcast.com.
Crime Junkie
UPDATE: Beaumont Children
Crime Junkie is an AudioChuck production. So, what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve?
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
On October 19th, 1970, a chilling encounter near Fairfax County, Virginia, would spark one of the most enduring legends in American history. Air Force Academy cadet Robert Bennett and his fiance found themselves face to face with a figure that defied explanation. A man in a white suit adorned with long bunny ears, wielding a hatchet.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
Legends thrive in places that feel cursed. And Colchester Overpass had all the right ingredients. It was remote, isolated, and shrouded in the shadow of night. And local kids started daring each other to visit after dark. Some shit I would do as a teenager. Some shit I'd do now. Some swore they heard whispers in the tunnel, and others claimed to see figures in trees.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
And the Bunny Man went from a bizarre news story to a full-fledged ghost story, feeding off the natural fear of the unknown. And that is the true, real power of folklore. The truth. It's messy, fragmented, and easily lost, but the legend, the legend sticks. And as long as the Bunnyman bridge stands, so will the superstition that keeps his story alive.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
It's almost like a placebo effect, but for hauntings. It's like, it's like Bigfoot or like Mothman. I don't know, but, but, but what's cool, not what's cool. What's interesting is that the Bunnyman was actually real. There was a guy in a bunny suit with a f***ing axe. terrorizing people in Fairfax County, Virginia. We don't even know how many times or if he did anything really bad.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
I mean, as far as we know, he was just a shit-talking tall rabbit who liked to vandalize empty properties, I guess. Not that scary if you think about it, but still a little scary. But as for the real Bunnyman sightings, despite extensive investigations, the true identity and motivations of the Bunnyman remain a mystery.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
An Air Force Academy cadet, Robert Bennett, and his fiance had parked their car in a field intending to visit relatives in the area. And as they sat in the vehicle with the engine running, their attention was suddenly drawn to movement outside their rear window.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
And recent studies suggest the perpetrator may have been a local resident disturbed by the rapid suburban development transforming Fairfax County in the 1970s. Which makes sense. I mean, this guy's just saying he's gonna chop the heads off of people that are moving in and that people are, are, are, are, trespassing on private property that isn't private property. It's kind of a good tactic.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
I mean, he literally made all these people like not want to leave their houses and maybe even move because he was terrorizing this county. I just imagine this guy as like an old 80 year old man. He's just like, what if I dress up in a bodysuit with an axe and chop wood and yell at people? That'll work just nicely.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
But the case in and of itself highlights the challenges law enforcement face when confronted with incidents that capture public's imagination and generate widespread speculation. But the Bunnyman case remains officially closed due to the lack of evidence and modern forensic techniques have not been applied.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
However, the enduring intrigue surrounding these events had sparked ongoing discussions and investigations by local historians and enthusiasts. The legacy of the bunny man continues to influence local culture, particularly on Halloween, demonstrating the lasting impact of unresolved mysteries on community folklore.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
So the real question is, should I or should I not go to Fairfax, Virginia, get into a bunny costume and do a full on ghost investigation in the middle of the night, potentially on Halloween, but probably sooner to see if the bunny man or any other entities are really haunting that forest. Let me know down in the comments below if you want to see that.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
But until that, I will see your beautiful face in the next video. I hope you enjoyed this type of video. I know it's a little bit different than my other true crime ones. It's a conspiracy one. It's a fun entity conspiracy one. I like these kinds of things. They're fun. It's very interesting, the whole, you know, public panic, how everything can amount to such just widespread hysteria.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
It's just wild. It's all very interesting. And I mean, I really want to talk to this guy. I mean, it was the 1970s. If he actually was in his 20s, he's around. So hey, Bunnyman, if you're out there, I would love to interview you. I will meet you under the bridge. on Halloween night 2025. I will also be in a bunny costume. I'm scared now. Wait, I'm scared.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
And what would transpire next would become one of the first documented encounters with a figure that would soon captivate the public's imagination and instill fear in the local community. Without warning, the front passenger window of Bennett's car would shatter, sending glass fragments cascading into the vehicle's interior.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
Anyway, I'll see you in the next video, alright? Bye! Stay safe. Stay safe. Don't trust tall men in bunny suits.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
And a figure clad in white clothing materialized beside the car, brandished a wooden handled hatchet. And the assailant, clearly agitated, shouted accusations at the couple, claiming they were trespassing on private property. And in a display of very bizarre behavior, the figure also declared,
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
that he had recorded their license plate number, implying potential further consequences for their alleged transgression. And understandably shaken by the sudden and violent intrusion, Bennett wasted no time and fled the scene. So he quickly engaged the car's transmission and sped away from this mysterious attacker, leaving the field and the threatening figure behind him.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
And it was only after they had put some distance between themselves that the incident that Bennett made a chilling discovery. He saw the hatchet that was used to break his own window was actually in his car, which was a tangible reminder of the danger that he had narrowly escaped. And in the aftermath after the attack, Bennett and his fiancee reported the incident to local law enforcement.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
And during questioning, Bennett provided a description of the assailant that would soon become the subject of intense scrutiny and debate. Because he insisted that the attacker was wearing a white suit, but most notably, he claimed the figure had sported long bunny ears. And this unusual detail would later contribute to the moniker that would be applied to this mysterious assailant.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
And Bennett's fiancé offered a conflicting account of the attacker's headwear, disputing the presence of bunny ears and instead describing a white, crown-like headpiece, which also... What? But the discrepancy highlighted the confusion and fear surrounding the encounter, making it very difficult for investigators to establish a clear narrative.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
This bizarre incident marked the beginning of The Bunnyman Legend, a tale that would grip the community with fear and fascinations for decades to come. As we unravel the events of that fateful autumn, we'll explore how a series of strange sightings transformed into a cultural phenomenon that continues to intrigue and perplex investigators to this day.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
But despite the darkness, both witnesses claimed they could clearly see the attacker's face. However, neither Bennett nor his fiance could definitively identify the assailant's race because it was dark, so fair enough. But this inability to recognize such a basic detail despite a clear view, underscores how fear and confusion can distort perception and memory, which is very, very true.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
It's extremely hard to identify someone when you're going through that amount of fear and adrenaline. I know I would have trouble. I can't even remember what shirt Caleb put on today. That's terrible. That's actually... What does he even look like? On October 22nd, 1970, just days after the attack, the Washington Post published an article titled, Man in Buddy Suit Sought in Fairfax.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
Crazy headline. This piece detailed the assault and specifically mentioned the hatchet that had been thrown at the car window and landed inside the car. Bringing the very bizarre encounter to the attention of a wider audience, and the setting stage for a growing legend of the Bunny Man. It's like the clowns all over again. Oh no.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
And law enforcement took the report seriously, aware of the danger posed by someone willing to act so violently. So they examined the hatchet that was left by the assailant, hoping it would provide clues to identify and catch the perpetrator.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
However, despite the hatchet and the detailed, though somewhat conflicting, eyewitness accounts from Bennett and his fiancée, the investigation faced obstacles. With no additional evidence and leads running dry, the case would be eventually marked as inactive due to the lack of proof for prosecution.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
And in the end, the hatchet was actually returned to Bennett, a grim reminder of his encounter with his unknown attacker, which is... That's evidence. That's evidence. Why are we giving it back to the guy? It wasn't his hatchet. I don't understand that at all, but what do I know?
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
But as the investigation into the initial Bunnyman sightings began to lose momentum, a second encounter would reignite public concern and challenge the authorities' understandings of the case. On October 29th, 1970, just 10 days after the incident involving Robert Bennett and his fiance, the Bunnyman made another appearance. a mere block away from the site of the first sighting on Guinea Road.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
Paul Phillips, a construction security guard, found himself face to face with an individual whose appearance bore an uncanny resemblance to the description that Bennett gave to authorities. Phillips reported encountering a man on a porch of an unfinished home, wearing a very distinctive gray, black, and white bunny costume. I need to know the lore.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
And the guard estimated the figure to be a white male, approximately 20 years old, standing at around five foot eight and weighing about 160 pounds. And the costumed individual, the bunny man, was actively engaged in chopping at a porch post with a long handled ax. This guy loves axes and hatches. an action that echoed the weapon described in the earlier incident.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
And the situation quickly escalated when the figure addressed Phillips directly, issuing a very chilling threat. This just sounds like just a slapstick horror film that I wouldn't want to be in. Like, just terrifying, terrifying. But according to Phillips' account, the man warned, all you people trespass- Wait, I need to do a bunny voice. What's a bunny voice?
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
Crime, conspiracy, cults, serial killers, and murder, all things that I love to consume, and I know you do too, you sick, twisted, little beautiful-minded little freak. And today, we're getting into something really weird, and I'm excited, because I actually haven't heard much about The Bunnyman, and I don't know if you have, but we're gonna get into it today, and you take it seriously.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
Meh, all you people trespass around here. If you don't get out of here, I'm gonna bust you on the head. Sorry, the Bugs Bunny thing was right there. So Phillips, terrified, retreated to his vehicle immediately, intending to retrieve his handgun for self-defense. However, upon his return, the bunny man had vanished into the nearby woods. You know, like bunnies do.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
Leaving behind only questions and heightened sense of unease in the community. So the Fairfax County Police Department's investigation report confirmed the basic elements of the October 29th incident. Officers responded to a call about a subject dressed as a rabbit with an axe. To get two of those is...
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
That's crazy.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
Crazy! And the lack of tangible proof mirrored the challenges faced in the investigation of the Bennett incident, further complicating efforts to identify or apprehend this individual. And the proximity of the two sightings, both in terms of location and timing, suggested a pattern of behavior that was impossible to ignore.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
And the Kings Park West encounter occurred just one block away from the Guinea Road site, indicating that the Bunny Man, whoever that might be, was operating in a specific geographical area. And this realization just intensified the public's concern and led to increased security measures in the vicinity.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
So as news as the second sighting spread, the community's fear and fascination with the bunny man phenomenon just intensified. And the incident would just capture the public's imagination, sparking widespread speculation and concern. Local residents found themselves grappling with the unsettling possibility that a potentially dangerous individual was at large in the neighborhood, a potentially
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
large bunny at large, if you will. An individual who was disguised in a costume that seemed more suited as a children's party than a crime scene. So in the aftermath of the two confirmed bunnyman encounters, a wave of panic swept through Fairfax County, Virginia.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
And the local community, already on edge from the initial incidents, found itself grappling with a phenomenon that defied easy explanation. And as Halloween approached, Oh, God. The atmosphere of fear intensified, leading to significant disruptions in daily life. This literally reads like a cheesy horror movie. I can't.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
So the Fairfax County Police Department faced unprecedented challenge as reports of the Bunny Man sightings flooded into their offices. And in the weeks following the Bennett and Phillips incidents, over 50 individuals contacted law enforcement claiming to have seen the mysterious figure. And these reports varied widely in their details. with some accounts veering into the realm of fantastical.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
Some people just want attention, you know? One report came from a guard who was watching a housing development that was under construction. And while on patrol, the guard claimed to see a man in a white bunny suit hacking down a porch post with a hatchet, very similar to Philip's. And walking closer to the bunny, he said, you are trespassing. Oh wait, I gotta do my bunny voice.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
Man, you're trespassing. If you come any closer, I'll chop your head. Similar thing he said to Phillips. And after this interaction, the man in the suit hopped. hopped into the woods. I'm trying to imagine in my head if I would laugh or if I would be terrified. I think I'd be terrified, but then, you know, really good story if you go home and you're just like, guess what I saw?
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
And local newspapers, including the Washington Post, played a key role in fueling public interest and concern. They're fueling the fire, if you will, with frequent articles detailing the sightings that kept the community informed, but also heightened fear and uncertainty. Meanwhile, law enforcement faced significant challenges in investigating the Bunny Man sightings.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
It sounds a little... ridiculous but it's not okay stay with me and i myself have always been scared of the easter bunny or just large anthropomorphic looking animal human being hybrid things anyway so this one terrified me a little extra so i'm excited to get into it so let's get into it So like I said, it all started on October 19th, 1970 on Guinea Road in Fairfax County, Virginia, USA.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
Officers would struggle to verify the growing number of reports and separate fact from fiction, all while lacking any physical evidence beyond the hatchet from the first incident. And as sightings increased, the case grew more and more complex, stretching the resources of the Fairfax County Police Department. Can you imagine putting all of your man hours into finding a giant bunny with an ax?
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
But the impact of the bunny man phenomenon on the local community was profound and far reaching. And as Halloween approached, I just can't get over how this sounds like a fricking horror movie. Parents in Fairfax County expressed heightened concern for their children's safety. Don't let them trick or treat. Just don't let them trick. Go to your local Walmart, get some candy, bring it home.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
Stay inside your house. Why would you risk that? There is a large bunny man with a hatchet hopping around your neighborhood. And the typically festive holiday season took on a sinister tone, fair enough. With families grappling with the decision of whether to allow their children to participate in traditional activities.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
The psychological toll on the community became increasingly evident as the days passed. I mean, if I was a parent, I would move. I would just, I would, you know, just drive just somewhere else at this point, you know? Another headline, doctors say Bunnyman's mind is hopping. The press is just having a field day with this guy.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
But the Bunnyman scare had a very noticeable impact on local schools with a rise in absenteeism as worried families kept their children home. Yes, because you know all those kids were walking to school uphill in snow and back to their home uphill in snow because it was 1970 when all of our parents did that.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
And this understandable precaution disrupted the educational process and highlighted how deeply the phenomenon had affected daily life in Fairfax. And despite dedicated law efforts, law enforcement struggled to make progress. And the Fairfax County Police Department invested significant resources into finding the suspects matching the bunny man's description.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
But the figure's elusive nature and the lack of consistent physical evidence just proved to be extremely challenging. And I love this. In an article, it says, within days, school children like 11-year-old Jim Waters, which sounds like a 50-year-old man who has two ex-wives, were petrified to bike to school.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
Jim Waters, the 11-year-old, said, The story went from a guy in a white bunny suit with an ex who vandalized a couple of times to an ex-murderer at the end of Guinea Road, he says. As an 11-year-old, I couldn't give it any perspective. Are you... Are you telling me an 11-year-old said those words?
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
And William L. Johnson, an investigator with the Fairfax County Police Department, summarized the challenges faced by law enforcement in a report. And he noted, quote unquote, after an extensive investigation, it remained substantiated whether there is real white rabbit, as most sightings were reported by children and lacked credible evidence.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
And this statement encapsulated the frustration experienced by investigators as they attempted to unravel the mystery of the bunny man. The psychological impact on the community extended beyond the immediate fear of encountering the Bunnyman. Children expressed reluctance to engage in everyday activities, such as biking to school, while parents voiced ongoing concerns about safety.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
And these reactions just reflected a broader societal anxiety generated by the Bunnyman legend, highlighting the power of fear to reshape communities' dynamics and individual behaviors. And urban legends, as we know, need a home, a physical place that can ground the myth into something tangible. Without a location, a ghost story is just words. And without a setting, a urban legend fades away.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
And that's how the legend of the Bunny Man found its way to Fairfax Station's Colchester Overpass, better known as the Bunny Man Breach, which I now really wanna go to. Uh, if this video gets to 200,000 likes, I will go to the Bunnyman Bridge and summon the Bunnyman. Yes, I will. But here's the thing. Nothing in the 1970s Bunny Man sightings has anything to do with this particular bridge.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
The original reports were about a bunny in a suit terrorizing people with an axe. Casual Tuesday. But Colchester Overpass, that was never mentioned. If you were listening, are you listening? So how did it become the landmark of the legend? Like all good urban myths, the bridge was chosen for one simple reason. It looks haunted, basically. A single-lane, century-old railway tunnel in the woods?
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
That's the perfect backdrop for a horror story, is it not? And by the 1980s and 1990s, local teens had already connected the Erie Bridge to the Bunny Man tale, twisting the story into something new. And suddenly, the Bunny Man wasn't just some deranged guy in a costume. He was a vengeful spirit, the ghost of an escaped mental patient or a supernatural entity that only appeared on Halloween night.
Crime, Conspiracy, Cults and Murder
Ep. 36 | This Urban Legend Is ACTUALLY REAL & Terrifying
And the story says, at the stroke of midnight on Halloween, a killer in a white rabbit suit awaits. Lore has it if you speak his name three times, he'll appear. Bunnyman, Bunnyman, Bunnyman. But don't expect to survive. He'll slash your throat and leave your body dangling from the bridge. Don't have to ask me twice. This is where superstition comes into play.
Crimeatorium
60 Seconds of True Crime | Missing: Theresa Vernell Jones
The last time anyone saw 17-year-old Teresa Vernell Jones was in September of 1980 in Alvin, Texas. Her plan was to give her sister Brenda a ride home in her late 60s model Primer Gray Chevy Impala Nova or perhaps a Chevelle. Her sister was in Houston, Texas. Neither Teresa nor the car have ever been located.
Crimeatorium
60 Seconds of True Crime | Missing: Theresa Vernell Jones
If you have any information regarding her disappearance, call the Alvin Police Department at 281-388 or the Brazoria County Sheriff's Office, 979-864-2236.
Crimeatorium
60 Seconds of True Crime | Missing: Theresa Vernell Jones
To add more mystery to Teresa's disappearance, her sister, Gina LaDonna Gibbs, was murdered in Nassau County, Florida, on June 2, 1982. This case has never been solved. Teresa, who also goes by the name of Terry, is 5'5 to 5'6 inches tall, weighs between 110 and 130 pounds, with brown hair and brown eyes. She has a tattoo of a rose on her back right shoulder and a gap between her two upper teeth.
Crimeatorium
60 Seconds of True Crime | Missing: Theresa Vernell Jones
There is some confusion about the model of Teresa's car. She was purchasing it from her sister-in-law, and she is uncertain of the model. Her best recollection is that it was a 1967 two-door Chevy, first believing that it was green, then decided that it was primer gray. Teresa's driver's license has never been renewed.
Crimeatorium
60 Seconds of True Crime | Missing: Theresa Vernell Jones
At the time of Teresa's disappearance, police believed she was a runaway, so no missing persons report was taken. Teresa would be 61 years old now and has been missing for 44 years. She comes from a large family and they are still looking for answers. Please look closely at the pictures of her posted on the Crimatorium website. A link will be provided in the show notes.
Crimeatorium
Jodi Arias | Case Highlights and Insights
On Mr. Alexander's left eye. Basically what it is is a reflection from the cornea, and it's actually, it's interesting because if it was not in the middle of the pupil, we would not have got that kind of photo. What it is, if I may stand?
Crimeatorium
Jodi Arias | Case Highlights and Insights
It's basically a camera being fired from this position, the camera held about chest height. And the reason you can tell that is because of the center of the flash, and you can see the chromatic aberrations around that, which are the colors.
Crimeatorium
Jodi Arias | Case Highlights and Insights
It would actually be more like this. Okay. So, again, I don't know the height of Mr. Alexander and I don't know the height of Ms. Arias, so it'd be purely speculative. So I did an outline, a rough outline, of what I can see in the lab.
Crimeatorium
Jodi Arias | Case Highlights and Insights
No, the only thing that was changed on it, the light level, the overall, what would you call brightness, was cranked up by about 19%.
Crimeatorium
Jodi Arias | Case Highlights and Insights
The defendant tortured her cat. And I want to get into that. And it's in her notes. And it's something that she knows about. And if this is the chart that they're going to be using, how do we establish that the family of origin issue is involved? Also, my argument is going to be that if anybody's the abuser here, that's where I'm headed.
Crimeatorium
Jodi Arias | Case Highlights and Insights
Let me have some more information about the notes. What does it say about it?
Crimeatorium
Jodi Arias | Case Highlights and Insights
Okay. Mr. Martinez, I did read the notes, and it says that she poked at the cat and she slapped the dog. But I don't know that that rises to the level of torturing a pet, which is what is listed under terrorism as torturing pets.
Crimeatorium
Jodi Arias | Case Highlights and Insights
And she also sneezed at the cat out of anger. She also...
Crimeatorium
Jodi Arias | Case Highlights and Insights
night, the stars are brightly shining. It is the night of our dear Savior's birth. Long lay the world in sin and error pining, till he appeared and the soul felt its
Crimeatorium
Part 1: Illinois vs Bradley Yohn | The Horrifying Attack on Christine Lohman Schmitt
He told her to act like she liked it.
Criminal
Hot Lotto
Well, some very exciting news happened here in Iowa last night. A $16.5 million winning hot lotto ticket was sold here in the Des Moines area.
Criminal
Hot Lotto
Psychedelics, so hot right now. Studies are showing they can help with PTSD, depression, even addiction.
Criminal
Hot Lotto
But there's been kind of this like major problem lurking under those positive results.
Criminal
Hot Lotto
It's basically impossible to take a psychedelic and not know that you've taken a psychedelic, which makes it pretty hard to have things like placebos or controlled trials.
Criminal
Hot Lotto
And that kind of breaks the sort of fundamental logic of how researchers study how medicines work.
Criminal
Hot Lotto
This week on Unexplainable, how psychedelics might be exposing some major cracks in the foundation of scientific research. Follow Unexplainable for new episodes every Wednesday.
Criminal
Valentine
What do you think? Those kind of questions, Phoebe, baffle me because I know you want some fantastic answer. And whenever anybody asks a woman, what did it feel like to see your toddler under a steamroller? I think, what do they think it felt like? I mean, he was my life companion. He... It was... I'm not comparing you to that, but the question...
Criminal
Valentine
Yep, I think that's right. You think what's right? She can hear when you talk about her.
Criminal
Valentine
I'm being served donuts in bed, and my girl Phoebe is here. So I am happy. And now we just need to find the remote.
Criminal
Valentine
Two different faces, but in tight places, we think and we act as one. So, so are those who know, see us, know that nothing can come between us. That's pretty good.
Criminal
Valentine
We got pretty far, yeah. Lord, help the mister who comes between me and my sister. And Lord, help the sister who comes between me and my man. Good. Got it.
Criminal
Ava and the Pickpocket
Not all the time. Do you sometimes tell Mommy to play a game with you but not read your mind? You say, no mind reading.
Criminal
The Reverend
It's all happening November 16th and 17th, and tickets are moving fast. To get yours, visit VultureFestival.com and enter code VoxPodNet15 for 15% off. That's VultureFestival.com with code VoxPodNet15 for 15% off.
Criminal
The Reverend
This message is a paid partnership with Apple Pay. When you've got a gift list to finish, the last thing you want to do is take out your wallet a million times. Instead, pay the Apple way. With Apple Pay, you can pay with the phone you're already holding. Just double-click, smile at Face ID, tap, and you're done. The people in line behind you will thank you.
Criminal
The Reverend
Apple Pay is a service provided by Apple Payment Services, LLC, a subsidiary of Apple Inc. Any card used in Apple Pay is offered by the card issuer.
Criminal
The Reverend
Support for this show comes from the Home Depot. Protect your home with the convenience of smart home security products. The Home Depot offers a wide selection from top brands you know and trust, like Ring, Wise, Blink, and more. Shop products for security and surveillance, like smart doorbells, cameras, floodlights, locks, and garage door openers.
Criminal
The Reverend
If you're looking for the next smart device to make your house more secure, then look no further, because smart homes start at The Home Depot.
Criminal
The Reverend
Vulture Festival is where the pop culture you love comes to life right before your eyes. A full weekend of panels, performances, and cast reunions with your favorite stars. This year, we're back in L.A. with an already iconic lineup. Kristen Wiig, Bill Hader, Padma Lakshmi, Quinta Brunson, and the casts and creators of You're the Worst and The Sex Lives of College Girls, just to name a few.
Criminal
The Petition
Are you looking to eat healthier but you still find yourself occasionally rebounding with junk food and empty calories? You don't need to wait for the new year to start fresh. New year, new me? How about same year, new me? You just need a different approach. According to Noom, losing weight has less to do with discipline and more to do with psychology.
Criminal
The Petition
Noom is the weight loss management program that focuses on the science behind food cravings and building sustainable eating habits. Noom wants to help you stay focused on what's important to you with their psychology and biology based approach. Noom takes into account your unique biological factors, which also affect weight loss success.
Criminal
The Petition
The program can also help you understand the science behind your eating choices and why you have those specific cravings. And it can help you build new habits for a healthier lifestyle. And since everyone's journey is different, so are your daily lessons. They're personalized to help you reach your goal. Stay focused on what's important to you with Noom's psychology and biology-based approach.
Criminal
The Petition
For more than 50 years, Nature's Sunshine has been harnessing all the healing power that Mother Nature has to offer. Their newest innovation, powdered chlorophyll, deliciously flavored and easily mixed, provides an incredible daily detox in a convenient format. Introducing Chlorophyll Stick Packs.
Criminal
The Petition
the convenient travel-ready stick packs that provide support for your digestive, intestinal, and immune health. Easy to mix and even easier to drink with flavors like Spearmint and Lime Twist. See for yourself how chlorophyll can help detox and deodorize the body from the inside out. Save 25% and enjoy free shipping when you subscribe and thrive at shop.naturesunshine.com.
Criminal
The Petition
creativity is one of the core traits that makes us human it allows us to tell stories to create and to solve problems in new and exciting ways so why does it feel so threatened with new technological advances that can create art in milliseconds where does that leave us in this special three-part series we wanted to ask how can we save and celebrate creativity
Criminal
The Petition
Tune into Saving Creativity, a special series from The Gray Area sponsored by Canva. You can find it on The Gray Area feed wherever you get your podcasts.
Criminal
The Petition
Ah, chlorophyll. You know, that green stuff in plants that harnesses the sun's energy? But did you know it can do more than photosynthesis? In fact, thanks to Nature's Sunshine, it might be your new favorite daily detox. Nature's Sunshine Chlorophyll Stick Packs are the convenient, travel-ready stick packs that provide daily support for your gut and immune health.
Criminal
The Petition
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Criminal
The Petition
For more than 50 years, Nature's Sunshine has been harnessing all the healing power that Mother Nature has to offer. Their newest innovation, powdered chlorophyll, deliciously flavored and easily mixed, provides the best daily detox in a convenient format. Powerful, flavorful chlorophyll. Daily detox has never been easier or more delicious.
Criminal
The Petition
Save 25% and enjoy free shipping when you subscribe and thrive at shop.naturesunshine.com.
Darknet Diaries
134: Deviant
Holy cow, the dog is a social engineer too. It's part of the act. Go hide while I pretend to look for you and wait for me to give you the secret command before you come.
Darknet Diaries
137: Predator
I would go about 25% more than that in dollars if my list is the same as your list.
Darknet Diaries
137: Predator
Depends how large the army would be, but let's say an army of an average smaller African or Latin American state is 25,000 to 50,000 men. No problem.
Darknet Diaries
137: Predator
I would say the Russians build the best military weapons across the board, and they also build them in tremendous quantity, which is the key factor in modern war.
Darknet Diaries
137: Predator
So this world of... I mean, what do you even classify this type of software? Do you call it a cyber weapon? Yeah.
Darknet Diaries
137: Predator
have a lot of oversight on how it's used or something. I don't know. What's the solution there to keep you from being tempted to use it on your enemies?
Darknet Diaries
137: Predator
But if it's like, no, we just want to see if he's going to talk about us on his next podcast, then that's – wait, hold on. You can't be doing that.
Darknet Diaries
143: Jim Hates Scams
What is your name? I'm talking about your computer. You have a Windows computer, right?
Darknet Diaries
143: Jim Hates Scams
Hi, this is Mary Williams from the headquarter of Microsoft Security Department. Tell me what happened. uh mary um are you sure your name's mary yeah definitely i know my name i'm very sure for it but it's actually susmita no my not i'm not susmita my name is mary william are you getting are you getting a little bit hot susmita sorry no listen You are speaking to me and my name is Mary.
Darknet Diaries
141: The Pig Butcher
Google, if you're listening, fix that. And fix the Google dot bug too.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
So, I mean, I have a lot of that stuff, too. He's never asked. And I showed it to a couple other people that I know in my inner circles.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
O.L. 's claims on his website, we could go to, right? You put in mob man, it comes up in the Google searches. And there's all kinds of claims on that website. It's like it's reaching for straws, every little thing. And then after, you know, 10 years, he finally gets enough straws to put together a whole fake persona or whatever he's doing for this other mob man person.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
Okay. And then you can see the registration dates on them and stuff. And now it aligns with all the times that have ever been kind of changed. Yeah. So maybe we get this other dude and me together.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
All right. I'll see if I can. You'd be wanting to talk with him. He'll get ill will on the call too?
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
I'd rather not talk with ill will. I mean, I think, you know... And quite honestly, you know, I try not to even... talk about the subset or even anything that I've done in the past. But, you know, they got all these laws and computer laws and shit nowadays. It's like, you know, I don't want them to go retroactively and find some crap to get me even more in trouble. I'd like to meet the guy. Yeah.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
All right. All right. I'll see what I can do. Thanks for this call. I'll keep in touch.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
When? Oh. Just because you're both named Marban. Oh, I know. It sucks because I'll be like trying to play video games and I'll sign up and I'll put my name in there and then I'll see it's taken. It'd be like, who the hell made that?
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
So I found these YouTube videos and people made something called Sub7, S-A-T. And then I know... How is this related to Sub-7? Reed101 made something. And then John... He made some too.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
I want to hold up my driver's license too because it says the same thing.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
You can just Google it. It's in my arrest record and everything too. But I can put the ID up.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
Right. The Wikipedia gets changed like every other month. Okay. And I'm mostly the one correcting it.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
Yeah, they all say that, yes, for the BUG. Have you ever been to Windsor, Ontario? No. I haven't been to Canada.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
I didn't even know there was a soccer game going on. Greg, how did you get into Delphi?
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
um this is learning programming right like it's one of the languages that were just hanging out it had a gui instead of just that you could make menus and stuff like that so what does all the delphi programs what do they start with what does the function start and end with
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
All the functions at the end? I'm talking about the words, man. Or like the carrot, like question mark or whatever for like PHP or, you know, when you start it, to call it.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
I didn't know that you were asking something so big. I was trying to figure out what exactly you're asking.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
I have multiple copies of it on backup CDs and stuff that basically I don't even think no longer even work. I don't even have a CD drive anymore.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
I was able to pull them out too, like 10 years ago and show it to people. Did you show it to anyone right now? Well, not right now because I'm on a call right now with you guys. And it's not in person. No, but come up with the actual proof, man. We have the whole source. Yes. And I posted it.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
Well, I wouldn't think of anything of it as accomplishments, nor... Even riding a rat back then, right? Like, I don't even tell pretty much anybody in person or any of that stuff.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
Be careful around Will then, you know. when he got arrested and stuff and a few other people got in trouble taking down around him. How is this related? Don't change the subject. I try not to make any absolute proof that could be used anywhere. So it's fine. I'm happy with saying I'm not. Because I don't even care.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
That's all we... Well, I've been saying I'm a mob man for the past... I'm trying to think how many years.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
I don't claim it in person anymore to anybody. I don't even claim that at all. So that's easy to do. We can do that.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
It's right across the room. I'm confused if you're asking to fight someone or if you're asking to prove that you're the real mom and dad. To prove.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
And then, yeah, it took them a decade to get all the bullshit together to call me out from something from 30 years ago that I don't even care about.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
How much time and effort do you think? Do you monitor my social medias or something?
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
Well, so that's when the source code was. So I had the source code back then on whatever computer I was using.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
Do you want me to explain the story? What are you still trying to prove? What happened and how I was able to prove it?
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
Right. So we sat down in a room and I had my laptop, opened it up, pulled up the source code of it, compiled it and showed it around and showed the hash match, the ones that you can download from the website and all that. Was involved in any way back then? What happened to you during those years? Were you arrested too?
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
And it's no disrespect to you or anybody else. that I've, you know, if they felt hurt or betrayed or lied to or whatever, you know, it's nothing personal. It's none of that. You know, like I was telling you, I respect your craft and everything. And it's good that you actually, you know, dug it up. As I was going through all this stuff with you, I'm thinking of all this stuff.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
at our headquarters, give them a badge, bring them in, interview them, and do all this stuff with them. So in a nutshell, it's like pretty good social fucking engineering to get all the way They do that. I mean, into one of the biggest financial institutes. That's true. So I think of things like that, right? It's like, yeah.
Darknet Diaries
150: mobman 2
And then using that variety where these kids that are coming out or whoever, right? And they listen. They heed my advice. I tell them, don't screw up your life like I did.
Dateline NBC
Talking Dateline: The Devil Wore White
I just got done listening to an episode of Talking Dateline. It was Keith Morrison, who I love, and Josh Mankiewicz, who I also love. They were trying to be funny with each other. Like, Keith Morrison called Josh, like, an infidel. And Josh was like, yep, I'm totally an infidel. But there was, like, so many moments of that. It felt really, like, almost like... Do they really not get along?
Dateline NBC
Talking Dateline: The Devil Wore White
Or do they get along? Are they frenemies? It was an interesting back and forth, and now I'm not sure. And I want Andrea Canning to chime in and let me know if they're actual frenemies.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
My friend called me and she was hysterical and she said, Sandra's been killed. I was like, oh my God. As soon as she was killed, we all knew who did it. As the months went on, we just realized that this guy's gonna get off. How is this happening? Just keep praying.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
What were you thinking about? I was thinking about the sadness in the loss of a child. There's nothing like it. Nobody can understand unless they've been there. Not unless you've lost a child.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
She was sitting down in the driver's seat, and from her waist up was pulled, slouched over into the passenger seat. You said pulled. Did it appear that it had been yanked over that way? It appeared that way, yeah. We believed that there was a struggle outside of the vehicle in the garage, and... That's due to some evidence that was on the outside front of the vehicle. What was it?
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
Smudge marks, some hair. When you look at how this homicide happened, it wasn't sexually motivated or it wasn't a robbery. It really was focused on anger.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
And calling out, Sandra, Sandra, and then he says that he couldn't get into the door. He called a friend to come and help him open the door.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
You know, initially investigators thought that maybe he wasn't saying everything that happened.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
You know, going through the calendar, what I found really interesting is that it's pretty detailed from January 1st, every day, all the way up until the 24th is the very last entry. And on the 25th, you got nothing.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
You would expect Darren to have wrote down in there that Sandra never showed up to pick up the boys, that he had to take off from work.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
This path, you know, basically leads to the cul-de-sac, and her house is just three houses down, right when you come to the end of this walkway. Very, very close, easy access.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
You know, I think after the incident happened over here, he went back to where he came and just took off and headed back home.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
We all believed it was proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the case was not going to get any better than what we had.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
This case is the textbook example of why you do not insert politics into people's lives. Gotcha. And into their families.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
If you've got cases where you have multiple suspects, and you're going to charge one of those suspects, you better be sure you've excluded the other suspect.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
The team decided unanimously. It wasn't Shailene's decision. It was the team's decision. I definitely feel that there was more than overwhelming evidence to convict Mr. Gallas.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
There was never any point during this process where the file was just sitting on a shelf getting dusty. There's always something that was being done, another piece of evidence that was being tested, another witness that was being looked for.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
That conversation happened any number of times over the years. But at each time we said, no, there's got to be a way to move this forward.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
Of course. I mean, none of us wanted to get that call saying, hey, Larry wants to see you right away and he's not happy.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
And told me he was having a heart attack and he was going to the emergency room. What was that like? It was pretty intense, but being as stubborn as my dad is, he said, oh, don't worry about it, I'll be fine. They're just going to put a stent in me, I'll be fine. I don't think he knew the magnitude of the situation at the time.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
Correct. I mean, he was Superman to myself and my sister. And to see him in that situation, in that hospital bed, it was tough. It was very tough.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
We had done some work over the years that had made the case somewhat better. Maybe Darren looked himself in the mirror and said, I know I did it. I don't know. But they said, we'll plead.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
Well, we may think we have a murder case. We may know that he did it. But it's all about what you can prove in a court of law.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
There's a big difference between pleading no contest and pleading guilty. It certainly suggests he did something to her. Well, he assaulted her. That very day, but he didn't kill her? He doesn't admit that he assaulted her. No contest means he neither admits nor denies the charges.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
This guy sends you who was a person of interest the entire time.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
There's an agreement that my client will plead guilty to nothing. Nothing. He's offered to plead no contest to an assault charge.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
And that is that he pled, no contest, to the charge of assault in the first degree. That's what this sentencing is about.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
You are hereby ordered committed to the custody of the Directorate Department of Public Safety for imprisonment for a period of ten years.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
She was absolutely a go-getter. Like, she was teacher's pet, always perfect. She always had her hair nicely done. You know, she was always focused.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
Old-fashioned, traditional family, you know, Catholic, play by the rules type of people.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
She was just a darling girl, you know, with two darling children.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
And she wore her hair back in a ponytail and she was very prim and proper and very, you know, subdued. And then as soon as she got away from Darren, she was like cut her hair in a bob and it was really cute and stylish all of a sudden.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
They found her in the car. I saw in the back of her neck some literature marks. She just didn't deserve that.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
He wined and dined her and, you know, took really good care of her. And he was, I mean, he was really nice to her. I mean, they were always, you know, doing all kinds of fabulous things.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
When we come back. She was slumped to the right to the passenger seat, face down. Who wanted Sandra dead?
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
And she was slumped to the right, to the passenger seat, face down into the seat.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
I saw in the back of her neck some literature marks. We didn't find the cord itself. We have an idea of what could have been used. What? A thin cord, like a fishing line.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
Probably 8 to 10 hours. Which would have put the time of death about when? In the morning.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
I think everyone thought that Darren would be arrested immediately and he would be going to jail and the children would be going to the grandparents or her brother and everything was going to be okay.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
Then we hear that Ryan is gone to jail. And we're like, oh my God, what? Did he do it? Then we hear, no, no, he went to jail for drug dealing, which none of us knew he was a drug dealer. I had no idea he was a drug dealer.
Dateline NBC
The Other Side of Paradise
Who knows? She may have been smuggling drugs in her new Louis Vuitton suitcases and not even knowing it, you know.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Entanglement
My ex hates both of them with a passion. But aside from that, I can't really think of anybody. And who is your ex? Dylan Williams. Have you ever known him to be a violent person?
Dateline NBC
Deadly Entanglement
This case and investigation raised a lot of questions, and some of those questions will never be answered.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Entanglement
He's telling me that Paige stabbed him in the back. That he did everything for this girl.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Entanglement
He said, well, I don't mind. giving you $20,000, $30,000 to make these two people disappear.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Entanglement
This case, the investigation, raised a lot of questions. And some of those questions will never be answered.
Dateline NBC
Unchecked Evil
It was your mom that first pointed out, well, you guys can't go back to your apartment because we don't know. That person has her keys now. Or a driver's license maybe.
Dateline NBC
Unchecked Evil
So I jaywalked across the street, and then as I stepped up onto the grass, I kind of looked over my shoulder to get a feel for where he was, and he was right there.
Dateline NBC
Unchecked Evil
He grabbed me. He had a knife. He put it to my neck. And he said, shut up. Don't yell. And so I screamed. and he pushed it in a little bit harder and he said, you need to shut up or I'm going to kill you right here. And I go, somebody's going to come and get me. You screamed anyway. Yeah. And he goes, no, they're not. He goes, I'm slicing your throat right now.
Dateline NBC
Unchecked Evil
And I screamed one more time and he kind of pushed it in a little bit and then he shoved me away. He grabbed my bag and he took off running down the alley.
Dateline NBC
Unchecked Evil
I heard a voice say, don't turn around or I'll shoot. And instinctively, I just turned around and the gun was pointed right at my forehead. And he said, give me your bag or I'll kill you. So I just started screaming and yelling and struggling with him. And he was trying to get the purse off and I had it over my shoulder. And as he was pulling, We struggled, and he hit me with the butt of the gun.
Dateline NBC
Unchecked Evil
My shoes flipped off in the street. My glasses ended up over besides the bushes. He cracked a couple teeth. The man got Julianne's purse and made his getaway. This man is terrorizing the area. Definitely. It was unchecked evil. Yeah, he's just terrorizing the area, yes. I heard someone yell help, and so I ran outside.
Dateline NBC
Unchecked Evil
As soon as they announced that Reagan Toke was missing and then they found her body, you know, my friend called me and said, this is too coincidental. It's all within a three-mile radius. I guarantee you that that individual that had murdered Reagan Toke is somehow connected to your case.
Dateline NBC
Unchecked Evil
I mean as soon as we entered the church, we pretty much all just started crying.
Dateline NBC
Unchecked Evil
And we all walked over to look at her and we all just kind of locked arms and stood there and... I mean, we talked to her, we talked to each other. I remember I always used to braid Regan's hair for her because she refused to learn to do it herself. And I remember I just like touched her hair because how many times have I braided her hair before? It was just... That's heartbreaking.
Dateline NBC
Unchecked Evil
It was surreal, yeah. But we stood there for a while. It was, that's the like one comfort is that we have each other.
Dateline NBC
Unchecked Evil
I don't know how to tell you that. Who could have? I don't know who could have. I'm not the only one. I'm not the only one in this city, Grove City.
Dateline NBC
Unchecked Evil
We move behind her. We get down to the part. This is a chilling account of this murder.
Dateline NBC
Unchecked Evil
Yes. I was outraged. I'm mad. All the signs were there. What more do you want? Somebody should have put two and two together. Did the system fail Reagan-Tokes? Did it fail all of the victims? It failed all the victims. And everything went unchecked.
Dateline NBC
Unchecked Evil
Well, had that information been available to our law enforcement, yeah, I think that that could have happened.
Dateline NBC
Unchecked Evil
They put a GPS monitor on him, but they didn't have any exclusionary zones affiliated with that monitor. They didn't have any curfews affiliated with that monitor.
Dateline NBC
Unchecked Evil
I think that DRC believed that placing a GPS monitor on him would curtail his criminal activity, but it didn't.
Dateline NBC
Unchecked Evil
They both really cared about each other, so it was hard, but I think it was what was best for both of them.
Dateline NBC
Unchecked Evil
I heard a voice say, don't turn around or I'll shoot. This was somebody that wanted to do evil.
Dateline NBC
Unchecked Evil
How the heck does this happen? How does this happen? They could have connected the dots way sooner.
Dateline NBC
Unchecked Evil
She said that she looked me up on Facebook before we moved in, and she immediately knew we would be friends. She was right. Why? What did you put on your Facebook page? She was like, I looked at everyone that we were going to live with, and I picked you out to be my friend. I was like, okay.
Dateline NBC
A mom's desperate search to find her daughter. Tears and fury in an Ohio courtroom. And the latest in the Karen Read case.
All right. Well, thanks, Celia. Happy New Year, everyone. See you soon.
Dateline NBC
A mom's desperate search to find her daughter. Tears and fury in an Ohio courtroom. And the latest in the Karen Read case.
It's like what I've done. I am glad I got caught.
Dateline NBC
A mom's desperate search to find her daughter. Tears and fury in an Ohio courtroom. And the latest in the Karen Read case.
You are the spawn of Satan.
Dateline NBC
A mom's desperate search to find her daughter. Tears and fury in an Ohio courtroom. And the latest in the Karen Read case.
It's the same M.O., and it's a very unusual, scary, terrifying M.O.
Dateline NBC
A mom's desperate search to find her daughter. Tears and fury in an Ohio courtroom. And the latest in the Karen Read case.
You're evil. You are the spawn of saints. My daughter was only 20. Why? ! Greedy Jake Wagner. You. I want you to suffer. I want you to die so your mom feels a heartache. What it's like to bury a child. It's a heartache that never goes away. I hate you. You ruined my life. You ruined innocent children's lives.
Dateline NBC
A mom's desperate search to find her daughter. Tears and fury in an Ohio courtroom. And the latest in the Karen Read case.
I'm sorry for what I've done, but I am glad I got caught. I 100% believe that it was Jesus who made me get caught. Answer my prayer.
Dateline NBC
A mom's desperate search to find her daughter. Tears and fury in an Ohio courtroom. And the latest in the Karen Read case.
Welcome back.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
Hey, good morning.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
You're going to learn about her lies and deception. You're going to hear about her extreme selfishness. And ultimately, the murder of Fabio Cementele, her devoted husband of almost 20 years.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
OK, so let's jump in and get started on your day.
Dateline NBC
Verdict in the pharmacist poisoning trial. A deadly love triangle in paradise? And Bryan Kohberger is back in court.
Yeah, so there was an evidentiary hearing that took place over the span of three days last week. It was basically just for the judge to consider some of the defense motions attacking the prosecution's case. Anything from how they collected evidence to the credibility of their witnesses. And their arguments focused a lot on the investigator's DNA analysis.
Dateline NBC
Verdict in the pharmacist poisoning trial. A deadly love triangle in paradise? And Bryan Kohberger is back in court.
Coburger's defense, they basically are saying that this violated Coburger's privacy. They really just want that evidence excluded from trial. They said that the police should have had a more specific search warrant before they analyzed the DNA from the crime scene.
Dateline NBC
Verdict in the pharmacist poisoning trial. A deadly love triangle in paradise? And Bryan Kohberger is back in court.
So the defense is arguing that the surviving roommate isn't a credible witness. They allege that what the police reported in their affidavit to get the search warrants of Koberger's DNA and property isn't actually the story that the roommate told police. The defense also says that the police withheld information about the witness's possible memory problems or impairment on the night of the murder.
Dateline NBC
Verdict in the pharmacist poisoning trial. A deadly love triangle in paradise? And Bryan Kohberger is back in court.
She's not sure what she heard or saw was real or whether it was a dream. And she said things that were just absolutely untrue and couldn't have been true.
Dateline NBC
Verdict in the pharmacist poisoning trial. A deadly love triangle in paradise? And Bryan Kohberger is back in court.
But the prosecution really pushed back on that. We know it wasn't a dream because they found the evidence, discovered the next morning. How did the judge react? The judge has not made an official ruling yet, but seemed skeptical of these arguments.
Dateline NBC
Verdict in the pharmacist poisoning trial. A deadly love triangle in paradise? And Bryan Kohberger is back in court.
Do you know the defendant, Natalie Cochran?
Dateline NBC
Verdict in the pharmacist poisoning trial. A deadly love triangle in paradise? And Bryan Kohberger is back in court.
I can't find any case law that would support that idea, that somehow a warrant would be needed for DNA left at a crime scene.
Dateline NBC
Verdict in the pharmacist poisoning trial. A deadly love triangle in paradise? And Bryan Kohberger is back in court.
So the prosecution gave its opening statements on Friday, and they really laid out their case against Monica. She was wiping away her tears, as they called her the mastermind of the plot to kill Fabio. The defense on the other hand, they are calling Robert Baker as their start witness.
Dateline NBC
Verdict in the pharmacist poisoning trial. A deadly love triangle in paradise? And Bryan Kohberger is back in court.
He was Monica's lover, and in 2023, he pleaded no contest to Fabio's murder and is currently serving a life sentence.
Dateline NBC
Verdict in the pharmacist poisoning trial. A deadly love triangle in paradise? And Bryan Kohberger is back in court.
Right. So they said in their opening statements that he's changed his story over the years and therefore he's an unreliable witness. OK. Lots of updates. Thank you so much, Veronica. Thank you.
Dateline NBC
Verdict in the pharmacist poisoning trial. A deadly love triangle in paradise? And Bryan Kohberger is back in court.
He could not believe what had happened because hadn't his mother told him a thousand times, we're innocent, we're innocent.
Dateline NBC
Verdict in the pharmacist poisoning trial. A deadly love triangle in paradise? And Bryan Kohberger is back in court.
Anything else, anyone? All right. Thanks so much.
Dateline NBC
Verdict in the pharmacist poisoning trial. A deadly love triangle in paradise? And Bryan Kohberger is back in court.
Why don't you go, why don't you try to talk to her?
Dateline NBC
Verdict in the pharmacist poisoning trial. A deadly love triangle in paradise? And Bryan Kohberger is back in court.
Did you take it as a farewell to life?
Dateline NBC
Verdict in the pharmacist poisoning trial. A deadly love triangle in paradise? And Bryan Kohberger is back in court.
Eric Thompson executed this murder nearly flawlessly.
Dateline NBC
Verdict in the pharmacist poisoning trial. A deadly love triangle in paradise? And Bryan Kohberger is back in court.
She said things that were just absolutely untrue and couldn't have been true. Law enforcement knew that.
Dateline NBC
Verdict in the pharmacist poisoning trial. A deadly love triangle in paradise? And Bryan Kohberger is back in court.
Prosecutors say Eric Thompson shot and killed Tokuhara after he discovered that the acupuncturist was having an affair with his wife.
Dateline NBC
Verdict in the pharmacist poisoning trial. A deadly love triangle in paradise? And Bryan Kohberger is back in court.
As I entered, I saw John on the floor. He was in a prone position.
Dateline NBC
Verdict in the pharmacist poisoning trial. A deadly love triangle in paradise? And Bryan Kohberger is back in court.
Eric Thompson executed this murderer. nearly flawlessly.
Dateline NBC
Verdict in the pharmacist poisoning trial. A deadly love triangle in paradise? And Bryan Kohberger is back in court.
No contact with John Tokuhara, calls, texts, nothing, direct or indirect. No threats or anger directed at John Tokuhara.
Dateline NBC
Verdict in the pharmacist poisoning trial. A deadly love triangle in paradise? And Bryan Kohberger is back in court.
I came to the realization that, you know, the problem was with me and Joyce. It wasn't, I mean, she cut him off. Did you kill John Tokuhara? No, I didn't.
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
Good morning.
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
Did she accept any of those symptoms?
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
Are you in the jury?
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
Andrea, I love this topic. It's very timely to talk about right now.
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
And they want to make me or friends feel like we're expecting the impossible. Why is that so impossible to do? Why is that expecting too much?
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
He breaks down on the stand and they basically have to end his testimony because he is so upset.
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
It's certainly not a defense when you say it, and you never prove it.
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
Jasmine Pace is not just some girl listed in an autopsy report. She is not the photos that you have seen. She is a person. She had family that loved her.
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
She's apparently glued to her phone watching her home security system when the intruders had broken into the home and were murdering her husband.
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
Neighbors we talked to were initially concerned this might be a robbery or a burglary or a random, but now it appears police believe it was much closer to home.
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
Yeah, that's exactly right. They did find video very early on. Investigators came across video of two suspects running towards the house wearing hoodies, so you couldn't see their faces. Only the master bedroom appeared to have been ransacked.
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
Another thing is that the intruders who broke in, they took the DVRs of the home security system, which was tucked away in the garage, not really in an obvious place. And it would sort of call into question, if you're taking that, how did you even know where that was?
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
And I think the most odd thing that stuck out to investigators' minds was that Fabio had a Rolex watch that was still left on his wrist after the murder.
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
Yeah. Apparently, according to court documents, Monica had been having an affair with a racquetball instructor at her local gym.
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
Was there a murder weapon found? They've never found a murder weapon. Fabio was a big guy. He was a really big guy. And for one person to have been able to take him out like that, you know, would not have been an easy feat.
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
They did find blood at the crime scene, but they weren't sure who it belonged to. Fabio's Porsche was also taken. And a couple of days after the murder, they find this Porsche, and inside there's blood. And when they test it, it comes back to Robert Baker.
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
Yeah. So Monica told officers that she was at the local Target running some errands when this crime happened. Prosecutors say there's apparently a video from inside the Target that shows Monica running.
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
So on her phone, glued to her, we haven't seen this video yet, so we're waiting to see it in trial, but she's apparently glued to her phone watching her home security system when the intruders had broken into the home and were murdering her husband. Right. What do they believe was her motive?
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
Yeah, you know, we haven't gotten a firm answer on this, but based on what we've been able to put together over these last several years and attending court hearings and listening to prosecutors, Fabio had a sizable life insurance policy, $1.6 million, and they allege that Monica and Baker had plans to be together to take this money and to pursue their relationship together.
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
Yeah, so that plea really took a lot of us by surprise. He decided to do this on his own free will for whatever reasons he decided to do it. No contest is basically a defendant is accepting the conviction without admitting guilt, but saying, okay, I'm prepared to take responsibility for this and accepting the sentence. Okay.
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
No. Baker, according to court documents, Baker maintains that he was responsible for this, that Monica had no knowledge about this, and that she wasn't involved in any way.
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
Yeah. So this third suspect for years and years and years. I mean, we waited and it was almost like a forgotten person because the cases were moving forward with Monica and Baker and no real mention of this third suspect. up until October of 2024, and they arrest a man named Christopher Austin. He cooperates with police from everything that we've been able to tell.
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
And just this past Friday, he ended up pleading guilty to second-degree murder. And we've been told that he is going to testify for the state at the trial. And what we expect is that he's going to say that Monica was aware of what was going on as well, was aware of this plan. It'll be interesting to see.
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
Yeah, you know, I've been covering this case since it happened in 2017. I remember, like, the first, especially those first few hearings, all of Fabio's family is in Toronto. So they couldn't make it to all these hearings. But I would end up seeing other people that Fabio worked with.
Dateline NBC
A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.
I mean, people that would drive up from San Diego, people that would come far distances just to sit in court for like a, you know... 10, 15-minute hearing. You know, they knew Fabio. They were touched by Fabio. I think he made a big impact on a lot of people.
Deadly Mirage
Busted
If you don't have anything for us, I think we need to get you to jail. Okay. What I need you to do is I need you to stand up and turn around.
Deadly Mirage
Busted
There is a financial benefit to Robert Lamondine, $300,000 in insurance and potentially $2 million settlement with the railroad.
Deadly Mirage
Busted
As a parent, I would never want to lose my child. And mom lost her only son. She just declined.
Deadly Mirage
Busted
Yes, yes. And she, to know how that it was his wife that was involved, that was even harder for mom.
Deadly Mirage
Busted
24-year-old Jonathan Hearn, a firefighter paramedic, is charged with first-degree murder. Sheriff's officials say Sabrina Limon, seen here with her husband Robert, planned his death with Hearn. And they say that Hearn and Sabrina Limon exchanged thousands of text messages.
Deadly Mirage
Busted
Coming up next on Deadly Mirage... My wife and I and Rob and Sabrina would engage in sexual activities, but it was not wife swapping. Good morning, sir. Can you tell us your name and spell your first and last name for the record?
Deadly Mirage
Busted
She was nowhere involved in the murder of her husband. It was a deal that he cut to get himself out from underneath being convicted and in life without the possibility of parole.
Deadly Mirage
Busted
I can give you the amounts of text messages and phone calls that were made prior to, during, and after Robert was killed. I do this for a living. I'm not playing games with you.
Deadly Mirage
Busted
He is going to prison for the rest of his life, okay? If I wasn't clear to you in the beginning, this is your one chance not to join him. Do you understand that? This is your one chance.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why Google is back in court for another monopoly showdown
We'll be right back.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why Google is back in court for another monopoly showdown
Support for this show comes from the refinery at Domino. Look, location and atmosphere are key when deciding on a home for your business. And the refinery can be that home. If you're a business leader, specifically one in New York, the refinery at Domino is an opportunity to claim a defining part of the New York City skyline.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why Google is back in court for another monopoly showdown
The refinery at Domino is located in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and it offers all the perks and amenities of a brand new building while being a landmark address that dates back to the mid-19th century. Its 15 floors of Class A modern office environment house within the original urban artifact, making it a unique experience for inhabitants as well as the wider community.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why Google is back in court for another monopoly showdown
The building is outfitted with immersive interior gardens, a glass-domed penthouse lounge, and a world-class event space. The building is also home to a state-of-the-art Equinox with a pool and spa, world-renowned restaurants, and exceptional retail. As New Yorkers return to the office, the refinery at Domino can be more than a place to work.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why Google is back in court for another monopoly showdown
It can be a magnetic hub fit to inspire your team's best ideas. Visit therefinery.nyc for a tour.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why Google is back in court for another monopoly showdown
Support for this episode comes from Microsoft. Did you know one in 43 US children have had their personal information exposed or compromised? Scammers are targeting our kids online, especially on social media, where unmonitored conversations can easily lead to identity theft. We need better tools to protect our loved ones to stay ahead.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why Google is back in court for another monopoly showdown
Thankfully, there's Microsoft Defender, all-in-one protection that can help keep our families safe when they're online. Microsoft Defender makes it easy to safeguard your family's data, identities, and privacy with a single security app across your devices. Take control of your family's security by helping to protect their personal info, computers, and phones from hackers and scammers.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why Google is back in court for another monopoly showdown
Visit Microsoft365.com slash Defender.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why Google is back in court for another monopoly showdown
This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Forget the frustration of picking commerce platforms when you switch your business to Shopify, the global commerce platform that supercharges your selling wherever you sell. With Shopify, you'll harness the same intuitive features, trusted apps, and powerful analytics used by the world's leading brands.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why Google is back in court for another monopoly showdown
Sign up today for your $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com slash tech, all lowercase. That's Shopify.com slash tech.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why Google is back in court for another monopoly showdown
Fox Creative. This is advertiser content from Zelle. When you picture an online scammer, what do you see?
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why Google is back in court for another monopoly showdown
That's Ian Mitchell, a banker turned fraud fighter. These days, online scams look more like crime syndicates than individual con artists. And they're making bank. Last year, scammers made off with more than $10 billion.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why Google is back in court for another monopoly showdown
One challenge that fraud fighters like Ian face is that scam victims sometimes feel too ashamed to discuss what happened to them. But Ian says one of our best defenses is simple.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why Google is back in court for another monopoly showdown
Learn more about how to protect yourself at vox.com slash Zelle. And when using digital payment platforms, remember to only send money to people you know and trust.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
The toxic transformation of Warcraft maker Blizzard
Support for this show comes from the refinery at Domino. Look, location and atmosphere are key when deciding on a home for your business. And the refinery can be that home. If you're a business leader, specifically one in New York, the refinery at Domino is an opportunity to claim a defining part of the New York City skyline.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
The toxic transformation of Warcraft maker Blizzard
The refinery at Domino is located in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and it offers all the perks and amenities of a brand new building while being a landmark address that dates back to the mid-19th century. Its 15 floors of Class A modern office environment house within the original urban artifact, making it a unique experience for inhabitants as well as the wider community.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
The toxic transformation of Warcraft maker Blizzard
The building is outfitted with immersive interior gardens, a glass-domed penthouse lounge, and a world-class event space. The building is also home to a state-of-the-art Equinox with a pool and spa, world-renowned restaurants, and exceptional retail. As New Yorkers return to the office, the refinery at Domino can be more than a place to work.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
The toxic transformation of Warcraft maker Blizzard
It can be a magnetic hub fit to inspire your team's best ideas. Visit therefinery.nyc for a tour.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
The toxic transformation of Warcraft maker Blizzard
Support for this episode comes from Microsoft. Did you know one in 43 US children have had their personal information exposed or compromised? Scammers are targeting our kids online, especially on social media, where unmonitored conversations can easily lead to identity theft. We need better tools to protect our loved ones to stay ahead.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
The toxic transformation of Warcraft maker Blizzard
Thankfully, there's Microsoft Defender, all-in-one protection that can help keep our families safe when they're online. Microsoft Defender makes it easy to safeguard your family's data, identities, and privacy with a single security app across your devices. Take control of your family's security by helping to protect their personal info, computers, and phones from hackers and scammers.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
The toxic transformation of Warcraft maker Blizzard
Visit Microsoft365.com slash Defender.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
NBCU's streaming chief isn't worried about you canceling cable
Support for this show comes from The Refinery at Domino. Look, location and atmosphere are key when deciding on a home for your business, and The Refinery can be that home. If you're a business leader, specifically one in New York, The Refinery at Domino is an opportunity to claim a defining part of the New York City skyline.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
NBCU's streaming chief isn't worried about you canceling cable
The Refinery at Domino is located in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and it offers all the perks and amenities of a brand new building while being a landmark address that dates back to the mid-19th century. It's 15 floors of Class A modern office environment housed within the original urban artifact, making it a unique experience for inhabitants as well as the wider community.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
NBCU's streaming chief isn't worried about you canceling cable
The building is outfitted with immersive interior gardens, a glass-domed penthouse lounge, and a world-class event space. The building is also home to a state-of-the-art Equinox with a pool and spa, world-renowned restaurants, and exceptional retail. As New Yorkers return to the office, the refinery at Domino can be more than a place to work.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
NBCU's streaming chief isn't worried about you canceling cable
It can be a magnetic hub fit to inspire your team's best ideas. Visit therefinery.nyc for a tour.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
NBCU's streaming chief isn't worried about you canceling cable
Support for this episode comes from Microsoft. Did you know one in 43 US children have had their personal information exposed or compromised? Scammers are targeting our kids online, especially on social media, where unmonitored conversations can easily lead to identity theft. We need better tools to protect our loved ones to stay ahead.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
NBCU's streaming chief isn't worried about you canceling cable
Thankfully, there's Microsoft Defender, all-in-one protection that can help keep our families safe when they're online. Microsoft Defender makes it easy to safeguard your family's data, identities, and privacy with a single security app across your devices. Take control of your family's security by helping to protect their personal info, computers, and phones from hackers and scammers.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
NBCU's streaming chief isn't worried about you canceling cable
Visit Microsoft365.com slash Defender.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
NBCU's streaming chief isn't worried about you canceling cable
So if you're a team of developers, Jira better connects you with teams like marketing and design so you have all the information you need in one place. Plus, their AI helps you knock out the small stuff so you can focus on delivering your best work. Get started on your next big idea today in Jira.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
Daredevil? Sounds like he's going to jump Snake River Canyon on his rocket cycle.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
Psychedelics, so hot right now. Studies are showing they can help with PTSD, depression, even addiction.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
But there's been kind of this major problem lurking under those positive results.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
It's basically impossible to take a psychedelic and not know that you've taken a psychedelic, which makes it pretty hard to have things like placebos or controlled trials.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
And that kind of breaks the sort of fundamental logic of how researchers study how medicines work.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
This week on Unexplainable, how psychedelics might be exposing some major cracks in the foundation of scientific research. Follow Unexplainable for new episodes every Wednesday.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
This week on ProfgMarkets, we speak with chips market expert Patrick Moyad. We discuss Intel's fall from grace, what makes Nvidia such a strong company, and his predictions for the future of the chip industry.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
What I think I can tell you is Nvidia will lose market share. But you know what? It doesn't matter. because the market is growing at a much higher rate that offsets any type of share shift to, let's say, AMD or these homegrown chips from the hyperscalers.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
You can find that conversation and many others exclusively on the Prof G Markets podcast.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
We had a show which was so popular that it was doing huge numbers and it was overtaxing our distribution systems.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
Game of Thrones had already established itself as a singular sensation on the network. And the last episode of Game of Thrones in the fourth season crashed HBO Go. And I think that was a signal to us that we had a bit of a high-class problem.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
Streaming giant Netflix suffered its biggest stock loss in nearly two decades, losing more than $50 billion in market value.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
It was really a whole usage pattern among young people. There was a whole new generation that was using the service differently. We needed to be ready for that. We needed to get ahead of it.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
Essentially, we had one mantra, right? We wanted... the consumer to be able to get HBO when they wanted it, where they wanted it, and how they wanted it.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
We wanted to make sure that when the fifth season of Game of Thrones was introduced the following year, we were ready for it.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
What kept coming back to us was that BAMTEC really were the best engineers, the best service, and that they could help us build our own back end, which would give us the capacity to distribute direct-to-consumer products.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
I think we had about five, six months, if I remember correctly, to get this thing ready and to stress test it beforehand, which we did. to make sure we weren't going to not only embarrass ourselves, but create a huge problem with our consumers who were expecting to be able to see it in all different forms, including on HBO Now.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
They're going to try to take away all of it. And then I can remember actually sitting in the conference room and watching the numbers go up, increasing as the minutes went by. And we helped. There were no tech glitches. There were no real problems. I wish you good fortune in the wars to come. And I can remember sitting there and seeing that it worked.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
It was almost like I imagined the feeling of the NASA people when the rocket lands on the moon. And you said, you know, thank God it worked.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
Every executive in our industry, the Showtime team, the Stars team, everybody was thinking about this transition.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
On my way to the airport, my cell phone rang and it was Bob who wanted our verdict on our partnership with BAM Tech.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
For the longest time, we have these images of somebody sitting crouched over their computer with a hoodie on, just kind of typing away in the middle of the night. And honestly, that's not what it is anymore.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
It's mind blowing to see the kind of infrastructure that's been built to facilitate scamming at scale. There are hundreds, if not thousands of scam centers all around the world. These are very savvy business people. These are organized criminal rings. And so once we understand the magnitude of this problem, we can protect people better.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
We need to have those awkward conversations around what do you do if you have text messages you don't recognize? What do you do if you start getting asked to send information that's more sensitive? Even my own father fell victim to a, thank goodness, a smaller dollar scam, but he fell victim and we have these conversations all the time.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
So we are all at risk and we all need to work together to protect each other.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Disney Is a Tech Company?
The fundamental question was how do you build to the new world order without cannibalizing an enormous amount of revenue?
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr.
Support for Decoder comes from Stripe. Stripe is a payments and billing platform supporting millions of businesses around the world including companies like Uber, BMW and DoorDash. Stripe has helped countless startups and established companies alike reach their growth targets, make progress on their missions and reach more customers globally.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr.
The platform offers a suite of specialized features and tools to fast-track growth, like Stripe Billing, which makes it easy to handle subscription-based charges, invoices, and all recurring revenue management needs. You can learn how Stripe helps customers of all sizes make progress at stripe.com. That's stripe.com to learn more. Stripe. Make progress.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr.
Support for Decoder comes from Stripe. Payment management software isn't something your customers think about that often. They see your product, they want to buy it, and then they buy it. That's about as complex as it gets. But under the hood of that process, there are a lot of really complicated things happening that have to go right in order for the sale to go through.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr.
Stripe handles the complexity of financial infrastructure, offering a seamless experience for business owners and their customers. For example, Stripe can make sure that your customers see their currency and preferred payment method when they shop. So checking out never feels like a chore.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr.
Stripe is a payments and billing platform supporting millions of businesses around the world, including companies like Uber, BMW, and DoorDash. Stripe has helped countless startups and established companies alike reach their growth targets, make progress on their missions, and reach more customers globally.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr.
The platform offers a suite of specialized features and tools to power businesses of all sizes, like Stripe Billing, which makes it easy to handle subscription-based charges, invoices, and all recurring revenue management needs. Learn how Stripe helps companies of all sizes make progress at Stripe.com. That's Stripe.com to learn more. Stripe. Make progress. Support for the show comes from Toyota.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr.
For many of us, driving is just what you need to do to get from point A to point B. But why not think of it as a reward instead? Make it an experience that captivates the senses by driving a Toyota Crown. The Toyota Crown family comes with the quality and reliability that Toyota is known for, along with bold and elegant exterior styles.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr.
The Toyota Crown sedan has an available hybrid max powertrain with up to 340 horsepower and comes with an available bi-tone exterior finish to help you stand out on the road. And the Toyota Signia gives you the space you'd expect from an SUV with a stylish design unlike any other.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr.
Whether you're a daily commuter or weekend road warrior, you can make any drive a thing of beauty with the Toyota Crown. You can learn more at toyota.com slash toyotacrownfamily. Toyota, let's go places.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr.
Support for the show comes from Alex Partners. You already know artificial intelligence will be transformative. Beyond that, it might be a little bit of a mystery. As AI upends the tech industry, Alex Partners is dedicated to making sure your business knows what really matters when it comes to artificial intelligence, because disruption brings not only challenges, but opportunities.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr.
In these pivotal moments of change, Alex Partners is the consulting firm chief executives can rely on. With clarity, direction, and most importantly, implementation, Alex Partners provides a steady hand for your business needs when decisive leadership is vital.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr.
Alex Partners spoke with nearly 350 tech executives from across North America and Europe to dig deeper into how tech companies are responding to these changing headwinds. You can see the results and learn how you can turn digital disruption into growth by reading Alex Partners' latest technology industry insights, available at www.alexpartners.com. That's www.alexpartners.com.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr.
In the face of disruption, Alex partners are who businesses trust to get to the point and to get things done when it really matters.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr.
Thank you so much for having me. You can discover insights and learn how to convert digital disruption into revenue growth by reading the 2024 Digital Disruption Report at www.alexpartners.com. In the face of disruption, businesses trust Alex Partners to get straight to the point and deliver results when it really matters.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr.
Support for the show comes from New York Magazine's The Strategist. The Strategist helps people who want to shop the internet smartly. Its editors are reporters, testers, and obsessives. You can think of them as your shopaholic friends who care equally about function, value, innovation, and good taste.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr.
And their new feature, the Gift Scout, takes the best of their reporting and recommendations and uses it to surface gifts for the most hard-to-shop-for people on your list. All you have to do is type in a description of that person. Like your parent who swears they don't want anything. Or your brother-in-law who's a tech junkie. Or your niece with a sweet tooth.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr.
And the Gift Scout will scan through all of the products they've written about and come up with some relevant suggestions. The more specific you make your requests, the better. Even down to the age range. Every single product you'll see is something they've written about. So you can be confident that your gift has the Strategist seal of approval.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr.
Visit thestrategist.com slash gift scout to try it out yourself.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr.
Support for the show comes from Alex Partners. If you're in the tech industry, wondering how artificial intelligence is going to affect your business might seem like the new normal by now. Alex Partners is a global consulting firm dedicated to helping you navigate the changing headwinds of AI without getting lost in the noise.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr.
Learn how your business can navigate AI while making sure your strategic initiatives are aligned by reading Alex Partners' latest technology industry insights, available at www.alexpartners.com. That's www.alexpartners.com. In the face of disruption, businesses trust Alex Partners to get straight to the point and deliver results when it really matters.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Anthropic’s Mike Krieger wants to build AI products that are worth the hype
For the longest time, we have these images of somebody sitting crouched over their computer with a hoodie on, just kind of typing away in the middle of the night. And honestly, that's not what it is anymore.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Anthropic’s Mike Krieger wants to build AI products that are worth the hype
It's mind-blowing to see the kind of infrastructure that's been built to facilitate scamming at scale. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of scam centers all around the world. These are very savvy business people. These are organized criminal rings. And so once we understand the magnitude of this problem, we can protect people better.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Anthropic’s Mike Krieger wants to build AI products that are worth the hype
We need to talk to each other. We need to have those awkward conversations around what do you do if you have text messages you don't recognize? What do you do if you start getting asked to send information that's more sensitive? Even my own father fell victim to a—thank goodness— a smaller dollar scam, but he fell victim and we have these conversations all the time.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Anthropic’s Mike Krieger wants to build AI products that are worth the hype
So we are all at risk and we all need to work together to protect each other.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Anthropic’s Mike Krieger wants to build AI products that are worth the hype
Support for this show comes from The Refinery at Domino. Look, location and atmosphere are key when deciding on a home for your business, and The Refinery can be that home. If you're a business leader, specifically one in New York, The Refinery at Domino is an opportunity to claim a defining part of the New York City skyline.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Anthropic’s Mike Krieger wants to build AI products that are worth the hype
The Refinery at Domino is located in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and it offers all the perks and amenities of a brand new building while being a landmark address that dates back to the mid-19th century. It's 15 floors of Class A modern office environment housed within the original urban artifact, making it a unique experience for inhabitants as well as the wider community.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Anthropic’s Mike Krieger wants to build AI products that are worth the hype
The building is outfitted with immersive interior gardens, a glass-domed penthouse lounge, and a world-class event space. The building is also home to a state-of-the-art Equinox with a pool and spa, world-renowned restaurants, and exceptional retail. As New Yorkers return to the office, the refinery at Domino can be more than a place to work.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Anthropic’s Mike Krieger wants to build AI products that are worth the hype
It can be a magnetic hub fit to inspire your team's best ideas. Visit therefinery.nyc for a tour.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
Anthropic’s Mike Krieger wants to build AI products that are worth the hype
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Anthropic’s Mike Krieger wants to build AI products that are worth the hype
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Digital Social Hour
How Failure Fueled My First Scripted Film Success | Rory Karpf DSH #1205
Mm-hmm.
Digital Social Hour
Amouranth's $50M Hustle: Secrets of Diversified Income | Amouranth DSH #1191
Wow.
Digital Social Hour
X Monetization Secrets: How I Earned $20K in One Month | Tiffany Fong DSH #1193
You were a sugar baby.
Digital Social Hour
X Monetization Secrets: How I Earned $20K in One Month | Tiffany Fong DSH #1193
You were a sugar baby.
Digital Social Hour
X Monetization Secrets: How I Earned $20K in One Month | Tiffany Fong DSH #1193
Finally, our Nemo Boards shop also makes a good impression on mobile devices. And the illustrations on the boards are now much, much clearer, which is also important to us and what makes up our brand.
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
Wow.
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
Yeah.
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
Wow.
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
Really?
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
Hmm.
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
Whoa.
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
Wow.
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
Whoa.
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
Right.
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
I love that.
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
Yeah, spot on.
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
Please.
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
Wow.
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
Yeah.
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
Wow.
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
Wow.
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
That's crazy.
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
Wow.
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
Wow.
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
Yeah.
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
Whoa.
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
Wow.
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
You know, who knows?
Digital Social Hour
Unlock Your Intuition: Julie Ryan's Spirit Connection Tips | Julie Ryan DSH #1192
Yeah.
Distractible
Mark Prepared For This
He spent three days on this. So I'm not going to lie. I spent so long working on this this morning, I didn't come up with an idea for the episode. I did this because I was like, oh, I'm going to bring up the small thing during small talk.
Distractible
Mark Prepared For This
His tailgate falls down as he's gunning it, and I just see it, because he, like, zooms past me. It goes, flomp, and he has to pull over off of the side of the highway, and I drive right past him.
Distractible
Mark Prepared For This
So happy that I made one of these again. Oh, they're gonna be happy. All right, I said Does that mean we're off next week Bob? It's just March
Divided Argument
Aide-de-camp
The judicial power of the United States shall be vested in one Supreme Court. Unless there is any more question, we have to find an argument in this case. All persons having business before the Honorable Supreme Court of the United States are admonished to give their attention.
Embedded
Alternate Realities: Facing the Facts
Okay. We're walking to the Rose Bowl. Yeah. How do you feel?
Embedded
Alternate Realities: Facing the Facts
All right. Okay, here we go. Oh, I should go get my list, right? Yeah, go get your list. All right.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
That's true.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
and being around to share that chaos with the silly goose here is one of my favorite things and sharing it all with you as well so i'm very excited for this run
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
Thank you.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
Thank you, Glentel. It's always a pleasure whenever I can have you join us in the pond today. Oh, stop. So without further ado, let's get ourselves started a bit. Let's show these people what they came here for. So we are going to go ahead and start with Radical City first because that is where we're going to go to get a Tails doll. And we're going to go, we have to go get my son first.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
So we'll be... Just a moment. And then the real party starts. So I will go ahead and give a countdown and then we can boogie. So starting in three, two, one, let's go.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
Es ist atemberaubend. Es sieht aus wie die Zukunft. Es ist unvorstellbar für mich, das selbst zu machen.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
Sorry that we arrived decades too late. Then I actually have exactly the right song for it.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
He was a boy, she was a girl, can't make it any more obvious. He was a punk, she did ballet, what more can I say? He wanted her, she'd never tell, secretly she wanted him as well. But all of her friends suck up their nose, they had a problem with his baggy clue.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
He was a skater boy, she said see you later boy He wasn't good enough for her She had a pretty face but her head was up in space She needed to come back down to earth Five years from now, she sits at home Feeding the baby, she's all alone Turns on TV, guess who she sees Skater boy rockin' up MTV
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
She calls up her friends, they already know And they've all got tickets to see the show She tags along and stands in the crowd Looks up at the man that she turned down He was a skater boy, she said see you later boy He wasn't good enough for her Now he's a superstar, slamming on his guitar Does your pretty face see what he's worth?
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
He was a skater boy, she said see you later boy He wasn't good enough for her Now he's a superstar, slamming on his guitar Does your pretty face see what he's worth? He's just a boy, and I'm just a girl Can I make it any more obvious? We are in love, haven't you heard? How we rock each other's warrior. I'm with a skater boy, said see you later boy. I'll be backstage after the show.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
I'll be at a studio singing a song he wrote about a girl you used to know. I'm with a skater boy, said see you later boy. I'll be backstage after the show. I'll be at a studio singing a song he wrote about a girl you used to know.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
Okay.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
Beautifully described, yes.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
Or the Barbie movie. Exactly. Or the Avatar movie. I don't know if that exists.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
Sleeping round a barrel fire in the Super Fun Site Cause you chewed me out and you were probably right So we'll have Chalk Collar Bucket Fights all night Chalk Collar Bucket Fights all night I'm gonna strum this Bandra with all my soul Can't remember the words this deep in a K-hole Let's fuck this place up before we get too old
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
Let me fuck it up before I get too old And I'm not gonna try to pretend that I knew how to be a good girlfriend I just wish this river would never end Now I hope this river might never end. Cause who needs a job when we got each other? He made 13 beans too, oh we were calling him mother. Ain't it funny how much he looked just like my brother?
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
Ain't it funny how you called me a worthless motherfucker? Cause I'm a burden, not a lover Oh, I'm a BPD loser If that's who you see when you look at me Then why the fuck did you ever choose her? So catch me if you can, I'm going home Catch me if you can, nowhere is home Catch me if you can. Nowhere is home. And I'm going home.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
That's Kaizo. You can...
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
So that's how it is.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
Magnetudo.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
All right. Oh, yeah, something else I should probably mention. You might be noticing that when you go off the bottom of the screen, you end up back at the top. This entire level is screen wrap, so it has a lot of very unique setups.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
That includes other sprites like these dolphins, so they can appear from the bottom of the screen with the water being on the top because they are required to have water underneath them. All right.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
This is probably the hardest room, I would say. Yeah. The cave room.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
Got to focus.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
Yeah. I mean, none of these rooms are easy. You got this.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
Gotta focus, she says, walking off a ledge. This one does. That's how I focus. Don't judge me.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
Very wily coyote behavior. Is that an old reference?
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
Uh, yes.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
Is that a boomer joke? Sweetheart, you are so old. Oh, no. But I'm wearing a backwards cap. How old could I be? How do you do, fellow kids?
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
Merde, les oiseaux ont encore cassé tous les arbres Merde, encore une fois Les oiseaux, les oiseaux, les oiseaux, les oiseaux, les oiseaux Thank you.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
Vestibules.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
When you're driving in the car And you're talking to me one on one But you become somebody else from everyone else You're watching your back like you can't relax You're trying to be cool, you look like a fool to me Tell me why'd you have to go and make things so complicated? I see the way you're acting like you're somebody else gets me mistreated.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
A life's like this, you fall and you crawl and you break and you take and you get and you turn into honesty amongst me and I'm never gonna find you. like you're something else where you are and where it's at you see you're making me laugh when you strike your pose take off all your preppy Tell me why you have to go and make things so complicated. I see the way you're acting.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
Something else gets me frustrated. Life's like this here. You fall, you crawl, you break, you take, you get, you turn it into a secret.
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
Lay back, it's all been done And if you could only let it be You would see somebody else from everyone else You watch in your back like you can't relax You try to be cool, you look like a fool to me Tell me why you have to go and make things so complicated See the way you're acting like you're somebody else gets me frustrated Likes like this you
Fantastische Wissenschaftlichkeit – Der Podcast
FW#54: Science Center Økolariet, Risuruuu, FF7 Remake, Kaizo, The Substance, Kometen
Follow me, come with me Take me with you, turn me with you Until I'm free, you cross me And everything's fine with me
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
Start/Sit Courage + Hungry For More, TNF Preview - Fantasy Football Podcast for 12/18
Mm-hmm.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
The TRUTH: Top 10 Fantasy WRs + Goober Alert! - Fantasy Football Podcast for 1/30
Because when you do it, here's the problem. Here's the real problem.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
The TRUTH: Top 10 Fantasy WRs + Goober Alert! - Fantasy Football Podcast for 1/30
Okay.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
Mock Draft! Top 12 Picks for 2025 - Fantasy Football Podcast for 2/20
Not thinking it at all.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
Starts of the Week + Week 16 Breakdown, Playoff Pressure - Fantasy Football Podcast for 12/19
It's football time!
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
Starts of the Week + Week 16 Breakdown, Playoff Pressure - Fantasy Football Podcast for 12/19
Oh, for sure.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
Starts of the Week + Week 16 Breakdown, Playoff Pressure - Fantasy Football Podcast for 12/19
I'm Jay Grizz. Yeah.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
Starts of the Week + Week 16 Breakdown, Playoff Pressure - Fantasy Football Podcast for 12/19
I'm Jay Grizz.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
Starts of the Week + Week 16 Breakdown, Playoff Pressure - Fantasy Football Podcast for 12/19
Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. Must be 18 and over. Agent eligibility restrictions vary by jurisdiction. Void where prohibited. One per new customer. Non-withdrawable Pick 6 credits expire in six months. Limited time offer. See terms at pick6.draftkings.com slash promos.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
The TRUTH: Top 10 Fantasy QBs + Scramby Daniels - Fantasy Football Podcast for 1/16
Don't explain it.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
The TRUTH: Top 10 Fantasy QBs + Scramby Daniels - Fantasy Football Podcast for 1/16
I wasn't going to.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
The TRUTH: Top 10 Fantasy QBs + Scramby Daniels - Fantasy Football Podcast for 1/16
Oh, he's a big boy. That's a big robot. Yeah. It's got to be scary.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
The TRUTH: Top 10 Fantasy QBs + Scramby Daniels - Fantasy Football Podcast for 1/16
Full egg.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
The TRUTH: Top 10 Fantasy QBs + Scramby Daniels - Fantasy Football Podcast for 1/16
We'll come back to it.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
The TRUTH: Top 10 Fantasy QBs + Scramby Daniels - Fantasy Football Podcast for 1/16
That was his college days.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
The TRUTH: Top 10 Fantasy QBs + Scramby Daniels - Fantasy Football Podcast for 1/16
It's a new stat in the UDK. We're adding the dog factor.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
The TRUTH: Top 10 Fantasy QBs + Scramby Daniels - Fantasy Football Podcast for 1/16
Yeah, it's tough. Where's Higgins? On the team. I'll probably go Hurts.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
The TRUTH: Top 10 Fantasy QBs + Scramby Daniels - Fantasy Football Podcast for 1/16
It's like a golf clap.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
The TRUTH: Top 10 Fantasy QBs + Scramby Daniels - Fantasy Football Podcast for 1/16
Yeah, it's a really – A year.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
The TRUTH: Top 10 Fantasy QBs + Scramby Daniels - Fantasy Football Podcast for 1/16
I wouldn't even play the football game.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
The TRUTH: Top 10 Fantasy QBs + Scramby Daniels - Fantasy Football Podcast for 1/16
I mean, it's clearly limiting. He's got inner excellence, no outer excellence. Right. So I will go those two picks.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
The TRUTH: Top 10 Fantasy QBs + Scramby Daniels - Fantasy Football Podcast for 1/16
Yes.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
Week 17 Matchups + Championship Choices, Weather Worries? - Fantasy Football Podcast for 12/27
Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. In New York, call 877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY 467-369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas, 21 and over, age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario, one plus promotion per day.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
Week 17 Matchups + Championship Choices, Weather Worries? - Fantasy Football Podcast for 12/27
Promotion, sport, eligibility, and requirements vary. Ends December 31st, 2024. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see sportsbook.draftkings.com.
Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
Week 17 Matchups + Championship Choices, Weather Worries? - Fantasy Football Podcast for 12/27
Nice.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
I hope that I was right. No, I think you're right.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
And so for all the listeners, so Farm Focused is not just a swag company then. Like what? Shirts, hats, coats, everything? Custom?
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
He's really good at pivoting, like shifting. I don't know what you call that.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
That's what it is. You were like, I'm going to go home and start a business, but you didn't know exactly what.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
You couldn't even walk. Like I have pictures. It's hilarious. Like tables on tables of just gear. And we had friends come over and help package and we didn't even know how to label stuff.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
And that's what attracted us to you guys. I mean, we were friends with Zach and all the guys that I had mentioned in my intro. And we had tried swag. And we know that we are not Zach Johnson, right? We interview Zach Johnson. We are not the influencer. We interview people like you. You're very popular. And we would not sell 10,000 shirts. We wouldn't sell probably 100.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
But we tried to do, what, runs of 300 here and all that. Oh, you do them through custom ink and... Yeah. Whatever.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
You get what you get. But we would stock and then quickly learn that we don't want to be the ones going to the post office and, like, we have other jobs. The podcast is already a side gig. We don't need a merch side gig either. Yeah. And do you know how many T-shirts you got to sell to make $10,000? Right. A crap ton. We're not going to do that, right? So we're not...
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
Hmm. Morgan, you were living in Tennessee then as well. Yeah. And then moved back. So his plan was to start something new. Was your plan to join in that something new or to do your own?
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
Well, yeah, that's kind of a little shift. I mean, for a long time, I stayed at home with the kids because we moved so much. So I stayed at home. I have a license. I did hair for 12 years, still have my license. Anyways, back story. And then when we came back home... Well, a little bit before that, I had a skincare business and still kind of do a little bit of that.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
And it's been there for about 12 years. So that was a little bit helpful with financially, but really coming back was like, okay, like I got to start doing some more stuff. Like there's something else that I got to do. obviously money-wise. And then he was doing hard work, like he said, knocking on doors.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
And I remember him coming home like, oh my God, you're literally driving up these roads, dirt roads, and just knock, knock, knock. I mean... dogs are jumping on him. I'm like, this is crazy. Are we sure we're really going to do this? Like you left a really, really good job. Anyways, we can go back. So we're just going to make it work.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
So yeah, I mean, it's been an evolution of when we were doing some stuff in our basement. He was like, yeah, I kind of need some more help. So like I help and then Became like, I needed to help more and more and more. And so obviously it's full, full time for both of us. So it's, but all our kids have gotten older. We have a 23 year old, a 19 year old and a almost 14 year old.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
So two of them are in college. They don't need us. The 14 year old acts like he doesn't need us at all. Unless it's time to eat or needs a ride somewhere or needs money. But other than that, like, you know, we work together. It's good. I don't know what else I would be doing. So I always feel like I'm a really good, I'm a hard worker for other people.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
Like he is really good at inventing and having the ideas and kind of delegating ideas. I'm good at, I don't know, being told what to do. Like, that sounds weird, but I mean, you need these workers, right?
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
You're like a list person? Yes, definitely.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
So I like to leave it, but obviously I've learned that when you have a business, you don't ever just leave it. Right.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
definitely things i think weigh on him more but yeah so i feel like it's it's a great a great combination i mean he works a lot from the office and a lot of times i'm at the shop so it's not like we're like on top of each other all day but we work hand in hand and probably call each other a million times or you know we're in passing and so it's not in the basement anymore
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
no it's not in the basement because it's at the shop it just we outgrew the basement even at our house it was like the whole basement was taken up printers and all the things and we just had to move somewhere else and so it was it was smart to move out to the shop and
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
Our fall was fast and furious. We didn't have to dry any corn, so I didn't have to use my Mixflow dryer for drying. But I did use it to meter out grain into my air system because we don't have a leg. That worked great. All the electronics worked great. The bins worked fantastic. The fans worked great.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
And we're getting ready to actually haul some out to cool our bins and use our drag system from Sukup.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
And then our kids help this summer. I mean, so it's good. It's like it ebbs and flows.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
Yeah. I always think it would be... I mean, and we've had people that have worked full-time with it.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
And different in and outs. And it's hard to almost staff because, again, orders come in, and I could walk in one day and have... Over the holidays, it could be 150 in 24 hours, 200, but then one day it could be... Well, that's super manageable. Like, why are we paying? I don't know. So we struggle sometimes with that.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
But we've gotten into a flow of, okay, we know it's going to start getting real busy here come end of October through January. Let's staff that. Then it starts, you know, tapering out to March. You know, you just have those high holiday seasons and things like that. Yeah.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
We do have some of his stuff on the shelf because it just flies so quick.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
Which is also good for people that are, we call them off-brand, that just want a handful of stuff. Or, hey, Ben, you know, can you run some hats or, you know, things like that. And we do a lot of stuff for our local school, our son's school. And they, you know, want merch for volleyball and, you know, sports stuff. And so we help a lot with that.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
Okay. Because we finally got cell service back. We haven't been without cell service for like six hours, which absolutely wrecked people trying to find us this morning coming here.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
Oh, boxes. He's acting like it's like a pile.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
That's the stuff we should be giving away on the podcast. Yeah. Like, all right, today's is a Femme shirt.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
You think about it. How many? Ten boxes.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
Or I printed the wrong logo on somebody else's tee and I'm like, ugh.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
We have friends that come over and just dig through it.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
And I do feel bad. I mean, we just got a phone call the other day of, like, one of our mugs. We bubble wrap it and put fragile on the box. It's broke.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
I'm like, yep, we'll ship you another one. But, like, what else could we have done? I stuffed paper in there. You know, you just...
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
I want to know what you came up with. You want to see what I came up with? Oh, God. Man, now I feel the pressure. I feel like I didn't do good enough. I'm a little scared. Today on the Farm for Fun show from the 2024 Husker Harvest Days, it is windy and we're trying not to blow away. But if that happened with the tent, that'd be kind of, that'd be good content. That'd be epic. Right?
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
Oh, my God, please. Shipping Saint. ShippingSaint.com. And so being in the auction industry, now everybody wants us to ship. So take it to the auction company. Well, guess what? Now we have to ship it. And there's a company that just came out a couple years ago, Shipping Saint.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
And I mean full catalog management to track your hours, how much we charge for the box, bulk deals on buying boxes, bulk deal on buying tape, where we ship it. And then they also have bulk deals. So all the auctioneers in the country work together every day. More than just auctioneers, Shipping Saint actually started as a manufacturing deal to where they shipped a lot of stuff.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
So they got bulk rates. So then bulk rates from FedEx to UPS to everything. And it shows all the rates and how do you want to ship it. That was fine for me. There was other software. But here's the cool part. Not to tout their software, but...
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
It will send my client a text message and say, hey, we just, you know, you check the box on the shipping saint and it sends you a text and it says, hey, your box is shipped and ready to go. Are you ready to pay for it? Here's the deal. They have to enter their own credit card. They pay for it after they pay for it. It sends you a text back and prints out every morning.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
These are the guys that paid last night. They're ready to ship. So then you just have it and it'll automatically alert the shippers. So they bring their truck in to do it. If you engage the whole system, It's actually pretty fantastic.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
They have APIs that mix right into your website or whatever your point of sale is. So, yeah.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
It'd be like when that sign went. We meet up with a power duo that's typically behind the scenes, but... There's a very good chance that you know their work very well. They started a clothing and merch biz in 2015, focusing on agriculture brands.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
Actually, I feel like our price is cheaper than if we went to the post office.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
We get a little bit of a discount. We'll see little notes. There's a note section that people are like, oh, that much for a t-shirt? I hand write.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
That's Amazon for you. Everything you can get shipped for free. We don't all own our shipping company as small entrepreneurial ventures.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
I would agree with that. And they absolutely love to just call and chat with you on the phone.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
They serve as some of the biggest names in the industry, like Millennial Farmer, Master Pipe Layer, Brian's Farming Videos, Modern Day Farm Chick, The Welkers, Larson Farms, Mary Pat's House, Shark Farmer, and more. Oh, and more recently, Farm for Profit. Please welcome from eastern Nebraska, Morgan and Ben of Farm for Profit. Let's go.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
Then they think you're the other brand. It can be anybody on the website. I'm like, oh, actually, I'm not the Welkers. Like, I'm not. No, but, well, so-and-so is selling meat over here at this market. And I'm like, that's not us. But, like, I mean. It's fun.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
I don't even think of it like that. Isn't that weird? They are. I know. Right?
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
So every business is trying to make money. What's the future look like? I mean, you've grown it from your basement to a shop and a handful of employees. Do you want it to be larger? Hopefully, maybe, maybe not.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
So obviously you do hats, shirts, coffee. No, coffee cups, things like that. But is there some weird items you do, like swag items?
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
I would say the one that is different is we cattle slappies. We ship those.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
Oh, slappies. We interviewed him and that's where we learned about slappies. What's a slappy? Shorten sticks? It's like a flag.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
They sell really well. I'm shipping slappies all the time.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
Well, Zach had a bobblehead for a little bit.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
And we're like, no, you're selling them. We bought them.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
They've just been sitting. Cause he got weird about like, I don't think I could sell myself.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
Can you do, like, one-offs? Like, you know, my knife has a brand on it. Or, like, a seed company. Like, can you do that kind of stuff? Is that, like, laser?
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
Makes me want to start working out or something.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
So obviously, Zach is probably the number one seller, I would assume. He sells the most on the website, yeah. Who's second?
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
So she's actually not on YouTube. She's really big on Instagram. And she... just has decided she's not going to do youtube it has a huge following and obviously she's a vet and does something else i forget what else she does so they they own a uh that black label oh okay yeah um cattle so black black label farm um I almost feel like her Instagram stories are basically her YouTube.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
If you would have been here and heard the previous show, Flea Speaks, you would have probably wanted to work out there too. Very motivational. I bet that was good. Yeah. It was good.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
I mean, it's lots every day, and it's so good. It's entertaining to see what she does.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
That's what's so awesome. It's kind of like a one-stop shop. That's really cool. Yeah.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
So welcome to the show. Thank you. We have recently started working with you guys. Probably the least favorite client. We are your least favorite client, I'm sure. I told you that at Farm Progress Show because we were very slow. I actually think I have an email I need to respond to from a week ago.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
That's what's cool about it, though, too, is like, You got to wear clothes, right? It's going to be expensive no matter what. If you like these people, you might as well support who you like.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
So you've got a lot of big names, but there's always the next big name. Who are you chasing? You drove all the way to Minnesota to meet up with Millennial Farmer Zach.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
Is there the next big name that you're chasing?
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
We were on a sugar trip with Roland Martin's son. I can't think of his name. Steve? Martin? Big fisherman. Yeah. Okay. That's right. At Lake Okeechobee in Florida.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
I mean, does really well at tournaments. Land Trust has swag. We interviewed Land Trust VRBO for hunting. Do you have any companies? Is there any companies? Yeah.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
But we have a secret weapon now, and she's sitting right over here, Miss Rachel. And, well, actually, we're trying to come up with a nickname for her. PR. That's PR. PR, number two, the young one. Yeah.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
Gotcha. There's Q. You could do his swag. There you go. Quentin.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
I don't know if you'd call it fired. We've talked to and decided.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
He's going to fire Sharky. You heard it here first. I just wanted to know how close we were to getting fired.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
No, we've had some... Well, we've had people leave that decided to go with other people.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
But it's always ended well. We've seen them at shows.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
If there's anything on your shelf that was already printed or we've had bulk stuff, they'll buy it. We haven't had anyone.
Farm4Profit Podcast
F4F - Ben & Morgan Evers - Farm Focused
We're like, okay, can you tell us what we could improve on? And sometimes we don't hear.