Unnamed Friend
Appearances
Call Her Daddy
Riley Keough: Nepo babies, Addiction & Grief
chewing sorry so what are you eating what are you eating i'm eating um toast i'm eating i'm eating raisin toast so i'm in raisin toast with butter okay so i'm on a podcast and they asked me to call a friend to describe how you would describe me as a friend as a friend as a friend i would describe you as a ride or die Like, you are down for whatever. You will always show up all the time.
Call Her Daddy
Riley Keough: Nepo babies, Addiction & Grief
You're very consistent. Like, I feel like me and you will, like, not talk or see each other for, like, six months. And then it's, like, we just pick up where we left off. And I think you're really good at keeping secrets. Gonna tell those on this pod. You're, like, actually. And you're incredibly loyal. And you're funny. You're funny as hell. And you're honest. Keep going. That's so cute.
Call Her Daddy
Riley Keough: Nepo babies, Addiction & Grief
It's true. You're welcome. Love you. Bye. Okay. You're just like, you're such a bitch. You're just like a bitch.
Call Her Daddy
Riley Keough: Nepo babies, Addiction & Grief
Really? You're the nicest person in the world.
Dateline NBC
Talking Dateline: The Terrible Night on King Road
I loved Kaylee. She was honestly such an amazing friend.
Dateline NBC
Talking Dateline: The Terrible Night on King Road
Kaylee, she was very competitive. She was very spontaneous. You could wake her up in the middle of the night and say, hey, pack your bags. We're going to Mexico in the morning. And she would be like, are you serious? Let's go.
Dateline NBC
Talking Dateline: The Terrible Night on King Road
So Maddie was the youngest out of the friend group because those girls were very, very tight knit. But Maddie just, she was always, she always seemed to be like the oldest of the group. She just had a very old soul. Just super smart and intelligent and very wise for her age, I would say.
Dateline NBC
Talking Dateline: The Terrible Night on King Road
I miss her potential and her sweetness and this grounded energy that she really made people feel seen and like what they were doing mattered and made a difference.
Dateline NBC
Talking Dateline: The Terrible Night on King Road
Zanna was beautiful. She was always smiling. There's this video we found where she's just spinning in a 360 with this huge smile. And you just want to know that person because she was just full of life.
Dateline NBC
Talking Dateline: The Terrible Night on King Road
I just want people to remember Ethan as someone who would put a smile on your face.
Dateline NBC
Murder in Minot
We all knew that he had a crush on her. Everyone knew it, but it just didn't bother anybody.
Dateline NBC
Murder in Minot
I remember the entire town was pink. Every storefront, car, light post, everything had a pink bow on it. We will miss you, Anita, written in pink marker. Everywhere, everywhere you drove, there was just pink everywhere.
Dateline NBC
Murder in Minot
Yeah. I was from Southern California, so everybody doesn't know everybody. So coming out here and just, it's definitely a smaller town and everybody was affected out here just because everybody knows each other.
Dateline NBC
Murder in Minot
Did you have anybody that you thought, that you suspected at the time? Back then, Tyler.
Dateline NBC
Murder in Minot
She makes everybody around her a better person. I knew she was something special.
Dateline NBC
Murder in Minot
She doesn't, like, judge people. But if you were, like, too persistent on things, she would tell you, like, no, like, leave me alone, back away.
Dateline NBC
Murder in Minot
She was so beautiful inside and out. So smart. She might have said it more gently, but I just remember Anita's dead. Everything kind of stopped.
Dateline NBC
Murder in Minot
Oh, we got like thousands of signatures on it. Thousands of signatures?
Dateline NBC
Murder in Minot
There's just a lot of things, Nicole, that over the years... Your story has changed so many times. This has been 13 years ago.
Dateline NBC
Murder in Minot
We are on board with moving forward with criminal charges for Nicole Thomas. She's going to be arrested.
Dateline NBC
Murder in Minot
Her statements about her whereabouts the weekend of the murder. Did her statements change over time? They did.
Dateline NBC
Murder in Minot
Anytime an investigator brought up information that they had received about them fighting or arguing, she downplayed it.
Dateline NBC
Murder in Minot
The alarm clock, the fish tank. Primarily those were the issues that came up.
Dateline NBC
Murder in Minot
Like, I understand if you win a, you know, a trial like that, you don't want to be happy, but you got to have some courtesy to the family that's sitting next to you. That had to be gut-wrenching.
Dateline NBC
Murder in Minot
She was just positive and happy and just... the best. I mean, she always did what was right. She never, like, wavered in that."
Dateline NBC
Murder in Minot
She literally became friends with anybody. She always went towards the people that probably never would have a lot of friends. So she always tried to be friends with everybody.
Dateline NBC
Murder in Minot
I think they just wanted to have their own space. So then they were both like, let's just get an apartment together. So they did.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
I can accept that. you know, that's not something that I want or something, it'd be hard.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
So maybe she was off with a new love interest, or maybe she'd been picked up by a stranger. And then David had one more idea.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
You know, I mean, everybody's scared to death of him in the neighborhood. We will talk to him. We're going to cover all the bases.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Will you give us permission to go back out there and look around?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Yeah. I mean, anything I can do to help. I just ordered to come home.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Not long after that conversation, deputies arrived at the Swift home. They went from room to room to room and looked at every little thing, but... We didn't find any evidence or anything inside the house.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
It was October 29th, 2011, two nights to Halloween when they gathered to celebrate in their costumes and their masks. To hide their secrets, perhaps? But certainly to make a new one, the darkest secret of them all.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
That definitely got investigators' attention. The Swift's place was in the country, where one property tended to meld into the next one. So investigators moved out, poking around, and eventually something caught their eye. Something they'd been looking for since day one. Karen's cell phone.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
And nearby was another one, a second phone. Now, what on earth could that mean? The mystery of what happened to Karen Swift was becoming bigger than anything this town had seen. And in the absence of answers, all kinds of rumors filled the void.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
It was, to say the least, a surprise. Way off in the grass at the edge of a neighbor's property, Karen Swift's cell phone. And lying there with it, another phone. Her phone? Someone else's phone? Who knew?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
The findings of which would become very important to investigators. But what was extra curious was that odd location.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
That is John Hogshooter, the Swift's neighbor, the man David had told investigators about.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
You know, I mean, everybody's scared to death of him in the neighborhood.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Investigators had already heard an alarming story about how Hogshooter had poisoned the Swift's family dog. That was just weeks before Karen disappeared, which made him a person of interest, to say the least. Did you bring him into the station to talk to him?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Well, he said he got tired of dogs pooping on his property. So Hogshooter put poison in his yard. One of the neighbor's dogs died because of it, and the Swift's dog became severely ill. the investigators searched Hog Shooter's home and his cars. Didn't find anything. But by then, all of Dyersburg seemed to know Hog Shooter was being looked at, and he felt the need to defend himself.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
That's what everyone said they wanted. The local news was all over the story. Spoke to the friend Karen went to the costume party with, Kathy Bona.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Investigators were talking to everyone. Eager to learn all they could, it helps to know your missing person. And David, it turned out, had shared a lot.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
When we first moved over there, and that's when Karen really started changing and doing this, all kinds of stuff.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Stuff, he said, was worrying him. Like how Karen had recently started leaving the house at all hours of the night, said David.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
It was about 9.30 one night and Karen was sneaking out of the door. He went outside and said, Karen, where are you going?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
It was a who's who of Dyersburg gathered for a Halloween party. Jason Creasy, a locally prominent lawyer and judge, was one of the hosts.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
He said most of it happened with Karen's friends, the Bonas. They had a hot tub and liked to host parties. And one night,
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
I could see Karen was in the bed here. I went over there to the covers and I pulled them back. She did have a towel, but she was totally naked.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Karen's friend Robin reported the same sort of thing. Different night. What did you see?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
So what exactly was going on with Karen and her good friends Kathy and Bill Bona? Rumors flew through town, of course, and into the ears of local reporters like Janice Broach of NBC affiliate WMC in Memphis.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
The rumors, which the Bonas deny, were that they were swingers and that Karen was part of their group.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Shocking or maybe not. In Dyersburg, that kind of thing was well-worn gossip. There was even a name for the local swingers club that supposedly operated here years ago. The Pink Poodles Club. What can you tell me about the, what is it, the Pink Poodle Club?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Jason Creasy, one of the hosts of that Halloween party, has lived in Dyersburg for more than two decades.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Karen's friend Jenny didn't like all the swirling rumors. Anyway, wasn't Karen on her way to a divorce? Jenny remembers being happy that Karen seemed to be finding herself even as her marriage fell apart.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Including a woman named Karen Swift. Charismatic Karen. Life of the party, usually. What was she wearing?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
But her family was struggling with this new Karen. Was she out at night a lot, eventually?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
But to be gone for days without word to anyone? That made no sense to nine-year-old Ashley.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Somewhere in her child's mind she knew, they all did, the awful truth they would be forced to face.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
With each passing day and no news of Karen, her family and friends were enveloped by the fear of exactly what her absence meant.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
December. Winter descended, damp and cold. Outside, around Dyersburg, the kudzu vine shrank to wait for spring. And then, six weeks after it began, the search was finally over. A caretaker walking the grounds of a nearby cemetery saw something under a steel cross in a patch of withering kudzu.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
She didn't have much fun, either. Wasn't the Karen who loved to sing and dance. She was the plus one of another couple and felt like a third wheel. So she called her friend Jenny Gurian.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Investigators processed the scene. Karen's remains were sent for an autopsy. What were their findings?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Any evidence of sexual assault? No. No? So whoever left her there, left her there in her underwear, and that was that? Yes. That it was murder was obvious, and the list of people they needed to speak to was long. They had already spoken with the couple Karen had been spending so much time with lately. Did you ask the Bonas to come in for an interview?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
They did come in for an interview, and they gave an interview, Bill and Kathy. Investigators learned something interesting. That second phone found near Hog Shooter's place, that was Karen's, and it was given to her by the Bonas.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Detectives discovered Karen was using it to talk to a man she met at a concert who said he wanted to get to know her better. David seemed to be concerned that she was having multiple affairs. Is that true?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
For one thing, police didn't think the Bonas had anything to do with Karen's disappearance. And police knew all about the rumors in town.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
No, their investigation was not focusing in on what Karen was doing outside her marriage, but rather on the man she was married to.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
In their early interviews with David, they thought they saw a guy far more concerned with trash-talking his wife than fining her. There were the stories he told about what Karen and her friends were doing.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
And he went on and on about how much she had started drinking recently.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
There'd be times that somebody would have to drive Karen home, or I'd have to go get her and drive her home, they'd call me. And so I was always concerned and worried about her. She was so drunk once that she had passed out on the porch in her own vomit.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Well, I found out yesterday that Bill and Kathy Bono had given her another cell phone.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
So he did know. He did know. Had they caught him in a lie? Well, maybe. But more importantly, investigators were zeroing in on the motive. David angry over the divorce, watching Karen slip further away. But that certainly wasn't enough for an arrest. David got a lawyer and stopped talking. And then the investigation seemed to just stall.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
But Karen stuck it out. It was late when she left the party with the couple who had taken her, Bill and Kathy Bona. They stopped at a McDonald's for some fries. And then they went to the Bona's house, where Karen planned to spend the night. She would rejoin her own family in the morning. But after midnight, Karen got a call from her nine-year-old daughter, Ashley.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
But the question about what happened to her mother was far from over. Someone new was coming to Dyersburg and so was a whole new theory of the case.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Oh boy. Wine improves with age. Murder investigations generally not.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
David Swift didn't hang around to see what Sheriff Box would do. He left Dyersburg, eventually settled in Alabama with his daughters. And that's where he found a new partner on the dating site Christian Mingle, Kelly Essman. Four years after the murder, David Swift was a married man again. Were you okay with the idea that he would marry another woman?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
How involved was your dad in your life during those years in Alabama?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
The story was no longer making headlines in Dyersburg, but in 2018, seven years after some unknown person bludgeoned Karen Swift to death, a disruptor came to town, disruptor with a capital D, and her name was Heather Cohen.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Heather studied criminal justice, worked as a paralegal, and in 2016 became a licensed private investigator.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
She shares a lot about her cases online and on a podcast she hosts called The Justice Warriors.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
A crime blogger friend told Heather about the Swift case, and she started making calls and then heard a lot of those salacious rumors about Dyersburg.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
And when she came to town, she did not tiptoe. She showed up with a big team and a friend recording every move as she chased down leads and knocked on doors and did interviews.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Who hired her to be that voice? Who paid her? No one, said Heather. Her first thought about David Swift was, why hadn't he been arrested?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
I would have done anything for my wife, and people just don't understand that they've just been led astray.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
So Heather turned to all those stories about Karen's behavior in the last months of her life. What did she find rooting around in the gossip? A story about an affair, alleged affair, that is, and a man named Bentley Katermas.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
She discovered that Bentley's wife, Dina, was at that country club Halloween party, and there were rumors she'd had an argument with Karen. And that led to speculation by Heather that there must have been a messy love triangle, which in turn somehow must have led to Karen's murder. There was an altercation in your mind?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
You were at a sleepover, and there were like three girls there, and they were kind of making you feel like the one left out, right?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Looking into Bentby and Dina would end up being the most consequential decision of her career. Because it led her to Dina's father, Daryl Sells, a wealthy businessman. Learning all about him became Heather's obsession.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
One of the leads came from witnesses who said they saw Darrell's cells poking around the crime scene with a metal detector before Karen's body was discovered. Heather recorded interviews with the witnesses.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
I seen this old man and he had a metal detector. It was weird, you know.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Heather went from curious to off-the-charts suspicious. And then she got her hands on a recording of an anonymous phone call made to the sheriff's office. The caller claimed to know the location of Karen's body when she was still a missing person. Heather believed the voice on that call was Daryl Sells.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Soon, Heather was convinced Daryl Sells was engaged in a huge cover-up to protect his own family.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Yes, it was just a theory, but that didn't stop Heather. She continued doing podcasts about the cells.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
And pretty soon, people in Dyersburg knew all about Heather's theories.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
So, Mom Karen wasn't the only third wheel. You called your mom then, huh? Is that what happened?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
She stirred up a hornet's nest, all right. And when you do that, you'd better be ready to get stung. You're accused of repeatedly threatening Heather Cohen, and including threatening to crush her skull. Heather Cohen thought she'd found the key to unlock the Karen Swift murder mystery.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Heather's theory about the murder started with the tip alleging that Karen Swift was having an affair with Daryl Sells' son-in-law, Bentley. Heather tried to get Bentley and his wife, Dina, to talk to her. They wouldn't do it. But Dina did talk to us. Heather Cohen said that Bentley was having an affair with Karen. False. But what do you think of that? How did he react to that?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Another of Heather's lies, according to Dina, was that story about a supposed fight between her and Karen at the Halloween party.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
David Swift stayed up to make sure his wife and daughter got home safely, which they did after 2 a.m. David went to bed in one room while Ashley fell asleep with her mom in another. But she remembers waking up in a different room. What happened when you woke up in the morning?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
But what about those witnesses who said Dina's father, Daryl Selves, was poking around the crime scene with a metal detector? Ridiculous, said Dina.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Heather also fixed on that strange call to the sheriff's office, directing them to Karen's body.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
If somebody wanted to do a voice analysis of that call versus his voice, you're going to find out that that is not him at all whatsoever.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Heather didn't offer proof it was Sells' voice. It was just her opinion after listening to it. Sheriff Box knows Daryl Sells and came to a different conclusion.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
If you're an out-of-town P.I. poking around in Dyersburg, you might want to think twice before picking a fight with Daryl Sells, a self-made man who became one of the wealthiest men in town.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
So let me tell you, I'm a ninth-grade dropout from high school.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Sells was a barber who got into the fast-food business in the 1970s and built it into a burger-and-fries empire worth millions. Would you say that you are kind of the archetypal American success story?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Well, I think so. I had an opportunity to make myself successful far beyond my means, and it worked out good.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Good, until Heather started promoting an ugly new chapter to his American success story. Sells told us he has no idea what happened to Karen Swift, and anyone who says they saw him poking around the place where her body was found is either confused or lying. You were never anywhere near there with a metal detector? No.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Hell, sorry, pardon my French, but I've never... He's never owned a metal detector. I don't even know how to operate one.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
When Daryl heard about the allegations, he called Heather and gave her a piece of his mind.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
You are spreading some shit around my family. No, sir. Yes, you are. I'm going to fix your ass before it's over with. Okay. You lying people don't need to be doing what you're doing.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
You're accused of repeatedly threatening Heather Cohen, including threatening to crush her skull.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Oh, well, I think I said I'd like to rub her nose on the concrete. And I'd still like to do that, tell you the truth about it.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Your dad is a fighter. He's kind of an unfiltered guy, isn't he?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Well, just a little. I don't know. Maybe it's me. Maybe it's my makeup. But I can't get this off my mind. You know, these people have got to pay for the lies they've told about my family.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Darrow did try to make Heather Cohen pay. He filed a lawsuit saying her entire theory of the case, the affair, the fight that somehow led to a murder and cover-up, the Sells family's influence over law enforcement, it was all malicious and defamatory. And Heather? She appeared before a grand jury to present evidence that Daryl had threatened and harassed her. One of them was arrested. Him.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
So I had to go down there and sit there for this woman to fingerprint me. And it was on the front page of the newspaper the next day.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
In the end, the lawsuit was settled out of court. Each side agreed not to disparage the other, and Heather conceded she had no first-hand knowledge that the Sells family was involved in Karen Swift's murder. The cyber-stalking charge against Daryl Sells was dismissed, which in Heather's book was just another example of the Sells family getting favorable treatment in Dyersburg.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
It wouldn't be slow for long. David and the girls woke up around 10 a.m., but Karen wasn't there. And then a neighbor told David that she saw Karen's car less than half a mile from the Swift home. One of the tires was completely flat, and there was no sign of Karen. Did you understand then that something must have happened to your mom, that she was missing and this wasn't good?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
In fact, didn't you call this the Sells family sheriff's office?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Sheriff Box is not contemplating a name change. Heather Cohen has said all kinds of things about the department, essentially saying that Daryl Sells controls you.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Heather Cohen does have her supporters in Dyersburg, people who think she has uncovered the truth. It's fair to say Sheriff Box and the Sells family are not among them. Why should we believe you and not them?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Heather kicked up a storm, all right. Got everyone talking. What new secrets about Karen's life would come to light?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
With no one arrested for Karen Swift's murder, the drama between private investigator Heather Cohen and the Sells family took center stage. Heather's theories about Karen's killer went viral, in Dyersburg at least.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Even though Heather's podcast and internet posts were pointing away from her dad as a suspect, Ashley didn't like how Heather was operating.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
And while Heather said she wasn't hired by Ashley's dad, some of her information did come from David's family. I seen this old man and He had a metal detector. Heather reported talking to three people who said they'd seen Daryl Sells at the crime scene. One of them was Ashley's own brother. That whole business about Daryl Sells, the metal detector, what did you make of all that stuff?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Back in Dyersburg, Rob and Alfred heard the suspicions about David, and the possibility he may have snapped and done something to Karen did rattle around in the back of her mind. But she could not imagine David as a killer, and thought Heather's fresh take on the case was exactly what was needed. Did she change your point of view about what may have happened here?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
But whatever people felt about the Heather-Daryl sideshow, it did get people talking about Karen's case again. Danny Goodman took over as DA of Dyer County in 2018.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
I think the DA that was here before me was looking for that smoking gun, the one piece of evidence that would just make the case a slam dunk. But that just didn't exist, apparently. And then 2020 hit. The thing that actually worked out well for us, even though it was something that was tragic for so many people, was COVID.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
We had more free time than usual, so we decided that it would be a good time just to, let's dig back into this case.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
They dusted off 30 large bins, and for a year they poured over it nine years' worth of police reports and transcripts and evidence. Not to mention all the theories and allegations Heather stirred up.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
There were a lot of rumors, and Heather Cohen actually brought a lot of information to me.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
And when he wasn't sure Heather had given him everything, he went to a judge, got a warrant to search her house, and collected all the research she'd done on the case.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
We investigated everything. We checked out... any allegation that was made. After they spoke to some of Heather's sources, Goodman said, a pattern emerged. Each witness that we would go and talk to would say, no, I didn't say that. Or, no, that's not exactly how that was. This is what I said.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Heather stands by her information. But by the end of it, Goodman said the evidence led him back to the man Sheriff's investigators had suspected all along, David Swift. As you went through those 30 boxes, did you find something that you felt was, you know, eye-opening, was going to change things?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
We did not come across anything that was just the one big thing, you know, just the aha moment. It was more so of putting a puzzle together.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
which David certainly seemed to have in abundance. I think he saw that he was losing control because in the past he was able to control everything that Karen did, everywhere she went, he controlled the money, and he saw that that was starting to slip away.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Karen didn't answer several texts and calls that morning. So David and Karen's friends, the Bonas, called the Dyer County Sheriff's Office. Terry McCrite is chief investigator. One of your deputies went to have a look at the car, right?
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Goodman saw Karen chasing a new life on the brink of freedom and David refusing to let her go. Karen, it turned out, had complained to her friends about it.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Maybe David just snapped that night after the Halloween party. Goodman reviewed David's past interviews against material they had gathered from his computer.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
David made numerous statements. He went to bed and slept until the next morning at 10.30 when the children woke him up. We know that that's not true because we could prove that there was activity on his computer at 3 o'clock in the morning and after.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
But if David killed Karen, he hid his tracks well. In a decade of searching, they had never found any evidence of a crime at the Swift home, and they never found a weapon that might have inflicted the deadly blows. So, in 2022, 11 years after Karen was murdered, sheriff's investigators decided to try once more. They brought excavators and dug near the rear of the property.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
During an earlier search, they found a single barbell in the Swift's home, but it was missing his mate. So was this it? Could this buried barbell be the murder weapon? Investigators sent it off for testing, but when the results came back... We didn't recover any kind of usable evidence.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Over the years, Sheriff Box had kept in close contact with Karen's mother, Carol. She was among the people who wanted to see David charged with the murder of her daughter.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
What good indeed. The folks in Dyersburg were more than a little interested in what would happen next.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Every morning I get up, I think about this. Who's going to be indicted? Who's going to be arrested? Waiting and waiting and waiting.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
As investigators were taking a fresh look at the Karen Swift case, David's life in Alabama seemed to be falling apart. There was tension with his second wife, Kelly.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
One of the things that the deputy noted was that the seat seemed to be pushed back to a position where a tall man like himself would not have to move it to get inside, and he figured she would have had it farther up.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
He tried, and she left him anyway, right? Yes. David's second wife filed for divorce. She told us David prioritized his kids over their marriage, and that took a toll on their relationship. Back in Tennessee, D.A. Goodman was quietly building his case, though investigators did pay David a visit.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
In 2022, District Attorney Danny Goodman was up for reelection, and wouldn't you know, his opponent decided to make an issue out of the fact that the biggest murder in town was still unsolved under Goodman's watch.
Dateline NBC
After the Halloween Party
Goodman won reelection. And days later, he decided it was time to take his shot on the Karen Swift case.
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After the Halloween Party
So much time had passed that you start losing witnesses. And we had one of the investigators that was a lead investigator who died during that period of time. We had a few witnesses who had health issues. You wait much longer, you're not going to have a case at all. Right.
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That was the concern. On August 8, 2022, David was pulled over by police. They handcuffed him, took him into custody. He was charged with first-degree murder. How did you find out that your dad had been arrested?
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Do you think there's any chance in the world that your dad killed your mom? Any chance at all? Just one little inkling of suspicion sometimes?
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For years, Robin hadn't been able to make up her mind about what happened to her friend.
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Karen's friend Angie Gallagher always believed David was the one responsible for the murder and held on to faith he'd be arrested.
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I imagine it must have been pretty good to hear that they had charged the husband David.
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Well, it was, yeah. It has not been much fun for you in the last few years. Well, it hasn't been fun for me for 12 years. Every morning I get up, I think about this. What's going to happen today to make this thing go away? Who's going to be indicted? Who's going to get arrested? Waiting and waiting and waiting.
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After the Halloween Party
That afternoon, Karen's friend Jenny was at home in Lexington, Tennessee, when she got a call.
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After the Halloween Party
David could no longer afford a private attorney, so he was assigned a court-appointed lawyer named Daniel Taylor. There were a lot of documents, 20,000 documents, from what we were told. Taylor set out to acquaint himself with the evidence, and what stood out to him right away was David's bad knee. He had major surgery in April 2011 and then re-injured it about a week before Halloween.
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They indicated that it was painful and that it would make it difficult for him to move around. That didn't mean he was absolutely paralyzed, but it did affect his ability to move and walk.
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Robin remembers seeing David on Halloween, the day after Karen vanished.
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After the Halloween Party
Murder his wife, ditch her car, toss her phones, carry her body, and then dump it and clean up any evidence? David Swift was in no condition to do that. At least that's what his defense attorney thought. And even though it had taken over a decade, Taylor thought this was a rush to judgment. All that attention from podcasters, the media, the community, was just too much pressure on D.A. Goodman.
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After the Halloween Party
It became an election year issue. No swift justice talking about the Swift case and criticizing the D.A. 's office. I believe that Danny Goodman is an honorable person. The purpose of bringing that up is to talk about if there's pressure to do something, pressure about doing something, about making a decision, is it the right decision?
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After the Halloween Party
Heather Cohen had been an advocate for David's innocence, but now some people blamed her for David's arrest.
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After the Halloween Party
The DA denied that, of course. Instead, he got ready to tell his case to a jury. And, well, maybe he had a good case after all.
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After the Halloween Party
Thirteen years after Karen Swift was killed, gossip and rumors were still swirling in Dyer County. So when David Swift's murder trial began in May of 2024, it was moved to a different town.
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After the Halloween Party
State of Tennessee v. David Swift, indictment for first-degree premeditated murder.
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After the Halloween Party
Very first thing, Prosecutor Goodman warned the jury this would not be some CSI extravaganza.
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This is not one of the cases where you're going to see positive DNA results. You are not going to see fingerprint analysis. We will, however, give you several pieces of a puzzle. And when we get through giving you all of those, you're going to see that complete picture of exactly what happened to Karen Swift.
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After the Halloween Party
Our plan was to show the jury that it was impossible for anyone else to have committed this crime. No one else had the motive to do it. No one else had the opportunity to do it.
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Motive was a big focus for the prosecutors. They believed David was angry and controlling when it came to Karen. Her friend Kathy Bona testified that David hounded Karen when the two women were out together.
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She told the jury about another incident after a day she spent shopping with Karen.
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Hiding? Why would a mother of four be hiding? Good question. One of many to come.
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Karen's relationship with Kathy and her husband had been the subject of speculation for years. And Kathy testified there was nothing at all to that talk. The prosecutor asked her about that night that David found Karen in her bed, naked,
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You were under the covers? I was. And... Was she under the covers with you? She was not.
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Totally innocent, she said. But David's reaction was over the top.
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Bill Bona also testified. He said Karen was their good friend, nothing more.
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And the night Robin saw him with Karen after she stumbled out of the hot tub, he testified he was just trying to help.
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After the Halloween Party
And at that point in time, one of her friends was coming in from behind me, and I said, wait, you know, let me get you a towel.
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After the Halloween Party
Jason Creasy was also Karen's divorce lawyer that divorced the state content that David didn't want and couldn't afford.
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After the Halloween Party
Prosecutors played David's interviews with police to show how he talked about his missing wife.
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She had passed out on the porch in her own apartment. I looked down, I know certain panties were in the floorboard.
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After the Halloween Party
David, they believed, wanted to give the impression that a drunk Karen most likely went out to meet someone in the dead of night. But the prosecution argued that just didn't happen. She'd returned from that Halloween party, remember, brought her daughter home. Assistant DA Tim Box. She comes back home. It's 2.08.
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After the Halloween Party
Prosecutors believed she went right to bed and to sleep, and detectives found a sleep aid on her bedside table. The drug showed up on her autopsy report.
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After the Halloween Party
Further proof she was sleeping? Prosecutors said both her phones were inactive in the hours after 2 a.m. David said he was sleeping too, but they had that evidence from his computer showing someone used it around 3 a.m.,
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After the Halloween Party
So we know that he was awake at that time, and he was accessing photos of Karen, deleting photos of Karen. So what happened in the Swift home the night Karen was killed?
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After the Halloween Party
Prosecutors had a theory, and it had nothing to do with the buried barbell. they said david's rage built and built and built until he decided to end his anguish and his marriage once karen and ashley were both asleep they believed david came in and picked up ashley and carried her to another room and then we felt that david swift somehow got karen swift into the garage once inside the garage
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After the Halloween Party
The defendant stomped Karen on her head with such violence that it caved her skull in, and it caused shards of broken bone to enter her brain.
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These people have got to pay for the lies they've told about my family.
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After the Halloween Party
The state described a premeditated violent murder, followed by a careful and thorough cleanup and cover-up. Goodman and Box knew the defense was going to claim that David's bad knee made it impossible for him to have committed this crime. But they had an answer for that ready.
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After the Halloween Party
Yes, he'd had surgery earlier that year, they said. But the story about injuring it again? That was a lie. David's neighbor, who lent the Swifts hay for a Halloween hayride, testified that David seemed fine to him that weekend.
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After the Halloween Party
Was he using crutches? I'd never seen no crutches on Saturday.
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Fakery said the prosecution that he started planning weeks before the murder.
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We felt like that the knee injury was a part of the plan from the very beginning to show that it was impossible he could have committed this crime because he was injured and couldn't walk at the time.
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So we see him on crutches in the police station. That's just a ruse. That's just a costume he's wearing.
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There were times that he was using crutches, and then there were times that he was not.
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The state ended with what it felt was its strongest evidence. Karen's phones, the ones that were found in that field. The state told the jury that Karen's secret phone was connected to the Swift house Wi-Fi. And someone called voicemail at 9.55 a.m. that Saturday morning. That's after Karen went missing.
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After the Halloween Party
And that adult was David Swift. Which meant, to prosecutors, David must have been the one to dump the phones.
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After the Halloween Party
We felt that that was going to be the nail in the coffin. It was something that we felt like there was no other explanation of how that could have happened.
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But of course, that wasn't the whole story. David Swift had important defenders, including those who loved him and Karen the most.
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The defendant stomped Karen on her head with such violence that it caved her skull in.
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After the Halloween Party
That theory came from the medical examiner. But at the exact time Prosecutor Goodman was describing it to the jury, the ME emailed to say he had changed his mind.
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So much drama. It all will obscure the long and hard search for Karen and the truth. Halloween Night, 2011. When it came time to trick-or-treat, Karen Swift was missing. Hadn't been seen for more than 24 hours. Anxiety growing all day for Karen's friend, Robin Elford.
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After the Halloween Party
We received an email at that time saying that's not what he thought was going to be the cause of death.
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After the Halloween Party
Prosecutor is saying to you that he took her out in the garage and stomped her head. There's no physical evidence in the garage. There's no blood in the garage.
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After the Halloween Party
The defense also argued that the state's claim about Karen's phone being used inside the Swift home after she disappeared was based on unreliable evidence. In fact, no proof became a theme of Daniel Taylor's defense.
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After the Halloween Party
There was no physical proof in the house, in the garage, in the car, on her, on him. It just didn't add up.
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Rather than the angry stalker described by the state, the defense said David Swift was just worried about his wife.
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You're in a relationship, and somebody you believe is not being honest with you, you check on them, you ask them questions. There's no violence.
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The defense said David was not capable of violence. His bad knee made that impossible. His physical therapist took the stand.
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Didn't you indicate that he would have extreme difficulty walking and lifting?
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Oh, yes. He definitely had limitation and he had pain. Several witnesses testified that he actually had the injury and he was being treated for it even months after this.
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It was, said defense attorney Taylor, a classic case of tunnel vision by law enforcement. One of the issues you raised was that the investigators didn't look into possible suspects. Who did you have in mind? Any particular persons?
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After the Halloween Party
There was an issue with Mr. Hogshooter that lived on the same street and, you know, about poisoning the dog.
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Police had cleared Hogshooter, but the defense said there were other possible suspects, like the man Karen met when she was at a concert with her friends, the Bonas. And on cross-examination, the defense asked Kathy Bona about that.
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Yep. Another mysterious suspect emerged during testimony from someone who passed Karen's abandoned car the morning she disappeared.
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After the Halloween Party
Yes, sir. We thought maybe he was hunting, so we slowed down, and whenever we slowed down, he put a pistol on the hood of the car. How would you describe him? Um, he was tall, um, and he had dark hair.
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After the Halloween Party
And of course there was Daryl Sells, the suspect in Heather Cohen's blogs and podcasts. The defense called the three witnesses who told Heather they saw Sells at the crime scene with a metal detector before Karen was found.
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After the Halloween Party
I noticed somebody randomly standing in the ditch with a metal detector. He said he had lost his watch. And if I'm not mistaken, when I looked down, he's got a watch on his wrist. And I thought it was very odd.
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Two neighbors of the Swifts also testified to seeing Daryl Sells at the same location.
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on the side of the road, I thought, I wondered why he was there.
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After the Halloween Party
And the person you saw near the cross that day, what was his name? Mr. Darrell Sells.
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After the Halloween Party
I don't think anybody could possibly understand it besides you.
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After the Halloween Party
As he watched his daughter, David Swift wept. Ashley composed herself and described the final moments she spent with her mother. How old were you back then?
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After the Halloween Party
Who moved Ashley was a very important issue. Innocent enough if it was her mom, but the state claimed it was David getting Ashley out of the way before murdering Karen.
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After the Halloween Party
According to the defense, David slept through the night. He did not move Ashley, did not use his computer. That must have been Karen. Whatever happened that terrible night, the defense said David Swift had nothing to do with it.
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After the Halloween Party
I don't know what happened, but there is no proof to support the state's theory in this case.
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After the Halloween Party
After the defense rested, the prosecution got one more chance with the jury.
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After the Halloween Party
After five days of testimony, the lawyers were finished. Up to the jury now to decide... Got to have butterflies in your stomach, that's for sure.
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She was powerless now, as she waited for 12 strangers to decide the fate of her father, Ashley Swift, in a stew of anxiety.
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After the Halloween Party
Prosecutors Danny Goodman and Tim Box couldn't help but speculate, too. They felt confident in their circumstantial case, but they felt there was more to David Swift than what they were able to present to the jury. David had gotten into some trouble in Alabama. In July 2023, while awaiting trial for Karen's murder, David was out on bail and was allowed to go back home to Alabama.
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After the Halloween Party
That's where his ex-wife Kelly still lived. Kelly contacted Karen's friend, Angie.
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After the Halloween Party
David was wearing an ankle monitor, and authorities could see he was near Kelly's house late at night.
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After the Halloween Party
David was charged with first-degree stalking in Alabama. He pleaded not guilty. His bond on the murder charge was revoked and he was sent back to a Tennessee jail. The prosecutors knew the stalking case would be inadmissible in the murder trial, so the jurors never heard about that. They deliberated for one day, and then two.
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After the Halloween Party
The jurors sent a note to the judge. They had made up their minds, sort of.
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After the Halloween Party
Does the jury agree on the highest level of offense that the defendant is either guilty or not guilty? Yes. What is the verdict in that?
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After the Halloween Party
While his kids went trick-or-treating, David told Robin he'd keep driving around, looking for his wife. Did he seem terribly distraught?
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After the Halloween Party
Not guilty of first-degree murder and not guilty of second-degree murder, the charges that carried a possible life sentence. There was another charge, voluntary manslaughter, which carries a penalty of three to six years. Did the jury believe David had killed Karen in the heat of passion?
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After the Halloween Party
Has the jury found the defendant not guilty of voluntary manslaughter? No agreement.
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After the Halloween Party
A hung jury. The judge declared a mistrial. What is that like? As you're sitting there after having put all that time and effort into this case?
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After the Halloween Party
Extremely frustrating. Tim and I will not prosecute a case against a person unless we have no doubt that we're prosecuting the right person. It's a hard pill to swallow.
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After the Halloween Party
David Swift has been acquitted of murder and cannot be tried again. But D.A. Goodman re-indicted him on the manslaughter charge. A new trial date hasn't been set.
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After the Halloween Party
For now, David is still behind bars. He's facing those stalking charges in Alabama, too. How's he doing in there? Can you tell?
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After the Halloween Party
It's been a hard road for the Swift children, but they're finding a way through. Ashley went to college and works as a dental hygienist. She's still living in Alabama.
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After the Halloween Party
So no real ending for now, except one big change. Bitter enemies Heather Cohen and Daryl Sells agree about one thing. They're both looking forward to the retrial.
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After the Halloween Party
If he's convicted, will all this stuff go away, do you think?
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After the Halloween Party
Yeah, if he's found guilty on manslaughter, I think it will quieten everything down and that'll be some kind of a closure to this case.
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After the Halloween Party
Closure. Wouldn't that be nice? But after all this time, some of Karen's friends are more confused than ever about what happened to her.
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After the Halloween Party
They're trying to make peace with the not knowing, and they cherish what's left. Memories of the Karen they loved, the Spitfire friend who was up for anything with her kids in tow.
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After the Halloween Party
Yeah, I'm not surprised. It seemed helpful to put on a candlelight vigil, so that's what they did. And Karen's son, Preston, went before TV cameras with an emotional appeal.
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After the Halloween Party
And I love you, Mom. Angie Gallagher became friends with Karen when the Swifts lived in Arkansas and was desperate to do something.
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After the Halloween Party
Nearly 20 of them showed up on their horses. They rode for miles, scouring the woods around Karen's house. None of it was easy, mostly because of the dense kudzu vines that grow everywhere in Dyer County.
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After the Halloween Party
And of course, the sheriff's investigators were learning everything they could about Karen Swift.
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After the Halloween Party
Karen was a stay-at-home mom who didn't really care much for staying at home.
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After the Halloween Party
Including all kinds of mischief. She even joined her kids with a supply of toilet paper to do some decorating at Robin's house a few days before Halloween.
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After the Halloween Party
David had a good job as a manager in a factory that made gas pipelines, shared a deep sense of faith with Karen, and was devoted to his children.
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After the Halloween Party
Karen told friends how much she wanted her kids to live in a happy home, something she said she didn't have growing up.
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After the Halloween Party
But perfect lives and white picket fences are often more ideal than real life.
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After the Halloween Party
Havoc was the least of it. They got a divorce. But they reconciled and remarried, together under one roof again with two sons from their first marriage. And then Ashley was born, followed by another daughter. And then more infidelity. This time it was Karen who had an affair. The swift marriage had become very messy.
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After the Halloween Party
But their fresh start wasn't easy. Robin watched firsthand as the relationship started to sour again.
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After the Halloween Party
When the case landed on Sheriff Jeff Box's desk, he knew exactly what he wanted to do.
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After the Halloween Party
It didn't take a degree in criminology to suspect that something very bad had happened to Karen Swift, or that investigators had better talk to her husband, David. And the day after Karen disappeared, David showed right up, on crutches even.
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After the Halloween Party
I'm willing to do whatever I can to help and find her. I just want her home safely.
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After the Halloween Party
He opened up to investigators about his relationship with Karen and their four kids and their 22-year history of ups and downs.
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After the Halloween Party
We were having issues, and I screwed up. I personally screwed up. What kind of issue was it? We need to know. Oh, yeah. Well, I had an affair.
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After the Halloween Party
And now, after their fresh start in Dyersburg, Karen was pulling away.
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After the Halloween Party
I still love her and care about her, and I just think she's lost right now.
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After the Halloween Party
Perhaps that's why Karen did what she did just a few weeks earlier, file for divorce. He thought they could work through it like they had in the past. They were sleeping in separate bedrooms, but David said things between them were amicable.
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After the Halloween Party
I mean, even under the circumstances, we've been still trying to be there for the kids and still communicating.
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After the Halloween Party
The morning before she disappeared, said David, she was helping out at a Habitat for Humanity house, and he went to see her.
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After the Halloween Party
Do something to drink, and I even did what I could around there to help with the light fixtures or whatever.
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After the Halloween Party
Then later, when Karen got home, he said she told him she was going out with her friends Kathy and Bill.
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After the Halloween Party
And I said, are you going to a costume party or what are you doing? Are you all having a party? She said, no, I'm just going to Kathy's.
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After the Halloween Party
David said Karen had been going out a lot lately. And the next time he heard from Karen, he said, was well after midnight.
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After the Halloween Party
She said, I'm going to get Ashley. I'm going to put her in bed with me. I said, OK, I'll leave the door.
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After the Halloween Party
He was a little worried about that because he knew she must have been drinking.
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After the Halloween Party
There must have been a little thrill in the air that autumn night in Dyersburg, Tennessee.
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After the Halloween Party
He was very brief. I questioned Karen about driving and getting her. I said, you know, if you can't drive, I'll go get Ashley. And that was all the conversation was. You know, as soon as I realized that Ashley and everyone were safe, I went back upstairs and went to bed.
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The Room Downstairs
It was crazy for her. I don't know. I can't explain it, where the attraction came from.
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The Room Downstairs
They keep telling us, give him time or don't interfere. We hired our own world-class private detective. They said, he's not doing a good job. Who is doing it? Everything we do, they said, don't do it. We were so frustrated.
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The Room Downstairs
He didn't look remorseful. He looked arrogant, come out, like we were wasting his time.
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The Room Downstairs
There is no gun. There is no, no pun intended, smoking gun. You can't find anything. There is no trace of him being in New Jersey. We thought maybe they call it mistrial, this, that. But he was extremely nervous.
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The Room Downstairs
It was a huge relief. You know, you got to pay for what you did. You ruined life. You took their father away. You took a nice person. He didn't do anything wrong.
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The Room Downstairs
That made me angry. I questioned this crazy justice system. Him, you find out he needs a second chance? Are you guys kidding me? Tony, why don't you stand up and face the group so they can see you?
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The Room Downstairs
Another problem for prosecutors? Pulling jurors even further into the past.
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The Room Downstairs
I think Roberto died so Sophie could be free. He really cared for this. He cared for all the human beings. But I don't know how that is. He fell for this woman. Obviously, there was something that clicked. And I think he died so she could be free.
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The Room Downstairs
Finally, we made our way to Teaneck to the house and it was horrible.
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The Room Downstairs
He was intelligent. He was not stupid. He wouldn't risk his life, right? Unless he committed suicide, he set himself on fire. He was not, no.
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The Room Downstairs
They took us in separately. Rob's friend, Mayor Dodd. He was wonderful. He was kind. He was loving. He always saw the other point of view.
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The Room Downstairs
He says, Murdoch, why do we make sandwiches? He was a kid at heart.
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The Room Downstairs
I've always hated you. I hate the day that I met you. I left with somebody who's much better looking than you, which isn't difficult to find, and I curse you.
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The Room Downstairs
On their runs, Rob confided in Merdod about life, fatherhood, his 27-year marriage to his wife Susan. They were splitting up. Obviously, I mean, they tried very hard, both of them, to save the marriage. They went through therapy and all that stuff. But it's unfortunate, you know.
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The Room Downstairs
He was crazy for her. I don't know. I can't explain where the attraction came from.
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The Room Downstairs
knocks at the door, and Rob, good person he is, he let him in. Rob said the two discussed Sophie. It was all very civil. That's when I got angry at him. I said, first of all, you don't do this. He said, you would beat him up. I said, no, I call the police. And he said, oh, Murdoch, you're too tough. His life is falling apart. His family, his wife is leaving him.
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The Room Downstairs
And when I got mad at him, you know, I was like a father figure now. I told him, I bet you offered him a cup of coffee too. Murdoch, as a matter of fact, I did.
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Poison Twist
They're out in my parents' yard, and Bill says to her, you know this is to be an open marriage, right? And she was taken aback. She said to me, I had the strength to tell him, no, Bill, we're going to have to not get married, you know, if you can't commit to monogamy. He backed down? Yeah, he came back and said, okay, I've thought about it, and I can commit. But did he?
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Poison Twist
When he was dating our daughter, he would come to the house every day. And how did you feel about the relationship? There was always something off, something we didn't care for with Adam. He was kind of off, detached.
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Poison Twist
He wouldn't make eye contact with you and he wouldn't really talk to anyone in the family.
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Poison Twist
No, we did mention to Katie that we didn't think there was something different with Adam and we didn't really feel comfortable about it. Her sisters also recognized that fact too.
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Poison Twist
Things were good. It seemed good. And, you know, we want her to be happy and she seemed happy. And then when things started to go a little south, I think she kind of realized it, too, that it wasn't a healthy relationship to be in. So she kind of separated or tried to separate herself from it as much as she could.
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Poison Twist
Katie and Adam broke up and got back together a few times over three years. Katie just had enough of him being up, being down, being up, being down. And just some of the things he would say just weren't right. Did Adam have any issues with his mom that you know of?
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Poison Twist
I know they definitely were not as close as our family was. He would just kind of talk down about his family. He was like, I don't get it. Like, I've met your mother. She's great.
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Poison Twist
But they clearly had something because they kept going back to each other.
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Poison Twist
You said it may have been an accident. Did he express that he didn't mean to do this to you?
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Poison Twist
He told you that he put the colchicine under your seat? Under his seat? Under your seat? He told you that?
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Poison Twist
I'm okay. Because if he knows that I, like, if he knows that I came to you.
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Poison Twist
Tamarin called me, Mary's daughter, and told you Mary was sick. Yeah, she said Mary's in the hospital. And she was desperate on the phone, and I was like, well, Mary's the healthiest woman I know. I just said, Tamarin, everything will be fine. Everything will be fine.
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Poison Twist
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Poison Twist
No doctor is coming out and telling you, here's what she has, here's what we're doing about it.
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Poison Twist
He really is the only person that I can, in good heart and faith, say had motive to actually kill his wife.
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Poison Twist
Do you remember the first time that you had sexual relations with Kathy Richmond?
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Poison Twist
I have to ask you how much you inherited in total from your father's estate?
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Poison Twist
Do you remember specifically ever being told, I don't want anybody to know that I'm here?
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Poison Twist
If there was a second dose, then there's no possibility, no possibility that Caitlin could have been involved because she didn't have access to Mary at that particular time.
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Poison Twist
Dr. Mary Oter is rather soft-spoken and young-sounding and very vibrant herself.
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Poison Twist
No. I mean, Katie worked at the office. He would have been able to control these very, very important circumstances that led to her being charged.
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Poison Twist
The prosecution couldn't say that Katie searched this particular term prior to Mary's death. It appeared that it was afterwards.
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Poison Twist
Yes. With the authorities? Yes, I did. She had the opportunity on, I believe, seven different occasions to say, you know, I think I want an attorney. But instead, she continued to cooperate and be subjected to some pretty severe interrogation tactics.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
They send us two DVDs from the dates and times those were purchased. Who is not on these DVDs? That's not Adam. Who purchases the prepaid cards?
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
This can't be. Yeah, it was, yes. It just can't be true. I don't think you feel at that moment. It really is just a shock.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
Do you think that your daughter, your 23-year-old, could give an accurate statement under those conditions?
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
What if you're wrong? What if she really did do this? Have you thought about that?
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
We just... Every once in a while, and it's just so not... We have tried to wrap our heads around it a thousand ways to see if there's any way possible that we think she could have done this.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
I actually thought that after I gave my closing that we'd have a... a verdict in 15 or 20 minutes of not guilty.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
Oh, well, the first 20 minutes were okay, but then it went on for day one and day two.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
There was no hesitation. We were going back. We were retrying the case. We needed to get justice for this family and for this woman.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
He put the colchicine in her supplements when he was over there, either Mother's Day or Father's Day, when he had a falling out.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
How do you know, first of all, that she was the one that was researching the poison, since Adam had total control of all of her electronic equipment anytime he wanted it?
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
Don't think that Adam didn't have full reign of that office, ladies and gentlemen. He came and went as he pleased any time he wanted to, okay?
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
He beat her, he hit her, he raped her, he used her. Why wouldn't she be scared of him?
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
You grabbed my right wrist and said you'd snap my wrist and break every one of my fingers. I'm going to kill you. I'm going to kill you, Katie. The way you said it, the way you looked at me. And then I was afraid.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
There's no motive in this case. She loved Mary Yoder. And there's nothing in this case to indicate that her actions were anything other than loving Mary Yoder.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
Never, ever in your wildest dreams would you think that this would happen.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
Did you ever cause colchicine in any way, accidentally or intentionally, to be ingested by your mother?
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
I snapped and I slapped her a few times. I regretted it immediately. I left the house.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
I was in shock. I didn't know how to react. I was panicking. Ultimately, I had drank enough to black out that night, so I couldn't defend myself. I didn't have a version of the story to say to her in response.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
She told me it's to help basically focus, boost memory. She said, make sure I take it consecutively and consistently because it works better over time.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
The vomiting and the pain, I started experiencing severe abdomen pain and eventually severe back pain as well.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
I asked her if she had poisoned me in a joking way. And what did she say? Said no, she would never hurt me.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
Ten days later, on April 21st, he gets sick with the same symptoms of colchicine poisoning that Mary got sick with, okay?
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
Did you ever cause colchicine in any way, accidentally or intentionally, to be ingested by your mother?
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
Before she actually honed in on colchicine, she looked at arsenic. She looked at thallium. She looked at cyanide. I submit to you, ladies and gentlemen, that the evidence is clear and that the common denominator is this defendant, Caitlin Conley.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
No one can ever say that this is what she did. This is not her. She's the same nice, nurturing, helping person that she was and always has been.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
The record will reflect that the jury has reentered the courtroom indicating that they have reached a verdict.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
Murder in the second degree. How do you find the defendant? Guilty or not guilty? Not guilty.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
In the small community where Caitlin lived, there's signs that said, free Caitlin Conley. Caitlin Conley's innocent.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
So what's actually really fascinating about this case is Katie's extremely bright. Katie had a job in the prison law library. And through that position, she just worked tirelessly on her case. And she said, listen, I'm really focused on this issue regarding the search warrant for my phone.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
I mean, just the warrant on its face is probably the most insufficient, facially insufficient warrant that I've ever came across. They believed that that was a warrant to take her phone and look in it. But what it needs to be is two separate warrants. One to take her phone. and then one to actually search the contents of her phone.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
And the warrant needs to say what they're looking for, what crime they think it's going to help them establish, and the timeframe.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
I thought it was strange that in this really extremely rare poisoning case that neither attorney that represented her at the two trials would have hired a toxicologist to at least consult with on that type of poisoning.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
That significantly expanded the potential timeframe where Mary Yoder could have been poisoned. And because it expanded the timeframe, it expanded the other potential people that could be responsible for the poisoning.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
His defense was that Adam Yoder committed the crime. So he wanted to get the poison in Adam Yoder's hands.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
It kind of is like this last recourse in order for a court to scrutinize your criminal case. 440s are extremely challenging to win.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
I didn't at the time. I see it as an issue. I didn't recognize it. I failed to recognize it.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
The cell phone evidence in and of itself was extremely important. They said that she had searched Colchicine on her cell phone. They questioned her. They interviewed her using information they found in her cell phone to derive statements from her. In the end, the motion was denied. But that wasn't the end of this. Correct.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
I would say about two to five percent of criminal defendants get permission to appeal from the denial of a 440.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
Kaitlyn Conley has this right to the effective assistance of counsel. Just a month later. The appellate division ruled in Katie's favor, granted her a new trial, and ultimately dismissed the indictment against her. I think I screamed. I ran around my office telling everybody that we had won.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
Once a defendant's conviction has been reversed and the indictment dismissed, the appropriate remedy is discharge from custody. It's kindly released. Court's adjourned.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
You could see tears were dripping down Caitlin's face, and you could just see the father just reached over and said, come here and give me a hug. And they kissed and hugged, and then she hugged all the other family members, her mother and one of her sisters.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
I asked her, where are you going to eat? And she said, well, I got a McDonald's milkshake.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
Oh, belly dancing. We costumed and choreographed a dance for a local havla, which it's an Egyptian dance, yeah.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
The ruling from the appellate court says you can't use anything on Caitlin Connolly's cell phone. You take the cell phone out, what's left? Is it bare bones? Is there still meat out there that they can lock onto? Or is this totally going to make it very, very hard to argue that Caitlin Connolly did this again?
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
The decision did not say Caitlin Connelly's innocent. It did not say the evidence was all wrong. What it said was there was a legal mistake in the trial that violated Caitlin's constitutional rights.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
So Katie's always maintained through the first and second trials or her lawyers did that, you know, potentially there's two other suspects.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
The world is not as wonderful a place as it was. Mary loved life more than anyone else I ever knew. And she made a point of loving it. She really did.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
Why would she want Mary dead? No explanation. She had a great relationship with Mary. Maybe this isn't the slam dunk case that some people think it is.
Dateline NBC
Poison Twist
If there were problems in the marriage, was Mary the type to share with her sisters?
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
tonight on dateline he started coming towards me and then he lunged at me and i started pulling the trigger ashley ran to her neighbor hysterical she had shot her husband i guess he had attacked her and she shot him she's a beautiful ballerina she appears to be a great mom we wanted to find out what happened in that room
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
He said he never stalked Ashley, but admitted to yelling at her, punching a few walls and mistreating the pets on occasion.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
But Doug denied poisoning Ashley and used his own expert to debunk the lab reports. And he was adamant he played no role in his late wife's death.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Ashley, Benefield has accused you of murdering your wife, Renee. Did you do that?
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
The allegations against Doug were at worst blown out of proportion, but at best just completely untrue.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
The judge gave Doug immediate access to his daughter and granted him sole responsibility over her medical care. That's a turning point. In all of this. It was a huge turning point.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
This was the court finding that the decisions that Ashley had made up to that point for her daughter were detrimental. So she took that away from Ashley and gave it to Doug.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Four days after the ruling, Stephanie Murphy was there when Doug met Emerson.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Was there a tender moment when he lays eyes on his daughter for the first time? She was a cute, plump little baby. And so there he was just holding this little girl. The look on his face was pure love.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Doug said, we're all going to go together, me and Ashley and our daughter. I said, Doug, this is not a good idea. And he was so trusting, blindly trusting of her.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
The strange ballet between the two entered its next act. Doug got a place in Florida and saw Emerson regularly over the next two years. He and Ashley also spent time together as a couple. But detectives discovered the relationship was still unpredictable. Ashley continued to confide in people that she was afraid of Doug and accused him of abusing their daughter.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Doug told his attorney he thought Ashley might be mentally unstable. Yet they decided they would all move to Maryland, where Ashley grew up, but still live separately. The night of the shooting, they were together packing Ashley's stuff.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Obviously, with domestic violence, there are times that women or men will go back to the person that's abusing them. It does happen.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
But the detective was becoming convinced that this wasn't the case with Ashley. Because despite her making over a dozen complaints against Doug, something jumped out. He had no criminal record.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
It's kind of a red flag that kind of goes up that says, huh, that's something we should pay attention to.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
She thought he was very charming. He was smart. He was fun to talk to. It was just a click.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Meaning that you're seeing these complaints against Doug, but no arrests of Doug.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Correct. There was no evidence to suggest that a crime had actually occurred.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Detective Dickerman thought there were also red flags at the scene. Why would Ashley agree to meet with Doug alone? And inside the house, investigators noticed this.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
There's a gun readily accessible in this bedroom when everything else is packed up. And in addition to that, you have another gun that's readily accessible in the pantry sitting by the peanut butter on the shelf.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
It just kept building up and adding up more and more that something was going to happen this night.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
One crucial piece of the puzzle was still missing. Ashley had not given a statement detailing her version of events. She wasn't telling anyone what happened, not even her therapist, Dr. Russell. Ashley actually lived with her for eight months after the shooting. Did she make any comments like I had to do it or he was going to kill me?
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Anything like that. She didn't need to say anything like that. That was so evident. It was so obvious.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
What had become obvious to Detective Warren and his team was that Ashley's claim of self-defense was full of holes. You're seeing this case shifting from self-defense to murder.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
After a two-month investigation, Detective Warren had reached a stark conclusion about Ashley.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
We're looking at all these complaints. Everything's unfounded. She just was not believable in anything that she was saying, making these baseless accusations against Doug.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
And investigators were not buying her claim of self-defense. In November 2020, she was arrested and charged with second-degree murder. Some in the media started calling her the Black Swan after the movie about a diabolical ballerina. People are calling Ashley this dark ballerina who is a manipulative, cold-blooded killer.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
If it wasn't so serious, I would be laughing. There's just nothing about that that's true by anybody who knows her.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Yep. But one warm autumn night, it ended just as fast as it began. Left behind, four bullet casings and a love story that had spiraled out of control. September 27, 2020. As the sun was setting, a frantic 911 call came in from Lakewood Ranch, a community near Sarasota, Florida.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Doug's daughter Eva was convinced Ashley murdered her dad. And as the publicity around the case grew, she decided to let the world know.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
She turned to TikTok. Her videos, dripping with sarcasm and dark humor, racked up tens of millions of views.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Ashley had supporters, too. And when her trial started in July of 2024, they came out in force, marching near the courthouse. Her daughter Emerson, now six years old, was front and center.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Well, I'll tell you the thing that was the most concerning was that the daughter was out being displayed on this picket line or whatever you would call it.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
I think an average person wants to believe when somebody says they're a victim that they are, in fact, a victim.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
The case was almost entirely circumstantial. And in Florida, Ashley's fate would be decided by six jurors. Would they think she was a domestic abuse victim or a liar?
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
In opening statements, prosecutors said at times Doug had anger issues, but he never physically harmed Ashley.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Not once did she ever say he choked her, kicked her, anything like that. There's things you can't escape.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
That he's not a saint. Yes, he was definitely not a saint. You are correct. But did that day when that happened, did he do something that required deadly force? And that's what we tried to focus on.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Prosecutors had to convince jurors Ashley's life was not in danger that night. Their theory? She shot Doug because she was desperate to have Emerson to herself, fearful she might lose her.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
This was a custody battle that this mother was going to win at all costs. And the cost was the life of Doug Benefield. And that is murder.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Jurors learned Ashley fired four shots at Doug. Two hit him. The county medical examiner testified the fatal bullet entered Doug's side, not his front, as you might expect if he were attacking her.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
It entered here and landed here, so it was basically side to side. So he was not coming at her chest first.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Doug's daughter Eva testified Ashley was sometimes volatile, blowing up if she didn't get her way.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Detective Chris Gillum worked in the sheriff's domestic violence unit. He'd been assigned Ashley's case.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
He testified that Ashley called him dozens of times over a three-month period. On one call, she demanded Doug be arrested at an upcoming family court hearing.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
She asked for me to arrest Doug when he came inside the courtroom in front of the presiding judge.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
That absolutely would not occur. She was upset. And at that point, I would call it a dramatic cry, hysterical cry. And she made a comment, something to the effect of, if the judge sees you arrest him, this will help me keep my baby.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
When the detective told Ashley he had no reason to arrest Doug, he said she persisted.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
She let out like a screech or a high-pitched scream. And she says, I'll do whatever I have to do to keep my baby, you a-hole.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Did that include shooting Doug Benefield? The defense was ready to fight back with a bold move.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Ashley, for the first time, was finally ready to tell her story and share her secrets.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
He's saying the neighbor came over, a female neighbor. It was a domestic neighbor.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Ashley Benefield's attorney, Neil Taylor, stepped up to the podium to deliver his opening statement. His objective? To turn the trial on its head.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
I'm going to have some strong words about Douglas Benefield, the alleged victim.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Correct. I believe he was the instigator. I believe he was the one who put Ashley in the position that compelled her to resort to self-defense and use deadly force.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
To back up his claim, he called this clinical social worker who counseled Doug and Ashley in 2020.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Doug occurred as someone who was domineering and super-controlling. he would fit the stereotype of an alpha male.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Taylor then attacked what the state said was Ashley's motive. He challenged Detective Gillum's testimony, specifically that Ashley said she'd do whatever she had to to keep her baby. Gillum admitted that wasn't in his original report citing Ashley's complaints. It was only after Doug was killed, more than two years later, that Gillum documented it.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
The neighbor was 29-year-old Ashley Benefield, and she had a dramatic story to tell.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Two and a half years later, you remember the details of the conversation? Absolutely. And what, exactly what she said, quotes, you quote her? Yes.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
The defense knew it would need to explain what went on inside that house the night of the shooting, but the only living eyewitness had barely said a word.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Until Ashley rose to break her four-year silence and testify in her own defense. This is the big moment in the trial.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Neil Taylor introduced the jury to a different Ashley from the one the state had just portrayed.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Ashley said it wasn't long before cracks started appearing in Doug's charming, sweet veneer.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
She next described a terrifying moment while she and Doug were still living together in Charleston.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Ashley testified she wasn't the only one who had seen Doug's dark side, that there was a pattern to his abusive behavior. Just a few months into their marriage, she found disturbing text messages on one of Doug's old cell phones. The texts were from his late wife, Renee.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
I loved you, though finding out you weren't really what you pretended to be. You kicking me so hard on New Year's Eve on our honeymoon. Doug's prior wife accused him of being violent. It mirrored the allegations that Ashley had made about Doug.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
The defense then moved on to the moment everyone had been waiting for. What would Ashley say about the night of the shooting? She explained that Doug was with her at her mother's house getting ready for the move to Maryland, and that his mood changed when they got into an argument over how to pack the truck. And he got really offended and upset.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Ashley told the jury that she tried to get Doug to leave, but it only made matters worse. And he started screaming at me.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
When the deputies first got here, when they arrived on scene, Douglas Benefield was still inside the house. In order to get to him, the first thing they had to do was make the scene safe, which they knew from the 911 call that Ashley was next door and was claiming to be the shooter.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
I thought she did wonderful. Ashley successfully conveyed how volatile he was, how fearful she was.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Ashley took some time to compose herself, but she wasn't done. She was about to face a much more hostile inquisitor.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
And he started like inching forward towards me. Well, show me. What was he doing?
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Ashley Benefield had just spent two emotional hours on the stand being questioned by her attorney. Prosecutor Suzanne O'Donnell didn't buy it.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
I didn't believe most of what she said. I thought a lot of it was exaggerated. She acted emotional about things that I didn't... It just didn't seem genuine to me. What was your goal, cross-examining her? Hopefully get the jury to see... what I saw. I also wanted them to focus on what happened in that room.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
But first, O'Donnell needed to convince jurors that in the days leading up to the shooting, Ashley had no reason to fear Doug.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
During this time, you're planning to move to Maryland. There's no violence going on.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
I want to get to the night that all this happened. You knew Doug was coming over. Yes. You invited him over. Yes. You weren't concerned about him coming over.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
You weren't so afraid that you wanted your mother to stay there and watch.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
The prosecutor then moved on to the moments right before Ashley pulled the trigger.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
You say he slapped you? He hit me. Was his hand open or closed? I don't remember. And because of those things, you claim that you thought he was going to kill you? He had never hit me before. He wouldn't let me leave. I tried to leave. He stopped me. The question is, you thought he was going to kill you?
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Once they secured the scene, first responders found Doug bleeding on a bedroom floor and pulled him into the living room to perform CPR. Barely alive, he was rushed to the hospital. How many times was Doug shot?
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Yeah. Prosecutors say there were times when they felt something was missing from Ashley's shaking and sobbing on the stand. I kept asking her. I said, I don't see any tears. Do you see any tears? O'Donnell didn't mention it in court. Instead, she tried a more subtle way to bring it to the jury's attention. Can we turn the lights up, please? you had someone in the courtroom turn the lights up?
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Oh, yeah. I did do that. I mean, that's, wow. I have never heard that before in any of the cases that I've covered on Dateline. And did she have any tears? No, not one. The prosecutor then asked Ashley to step off the stand and reenact what she said compelled her to use deadly force.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
And he started, like, inching forward towards me. Well, show me. What was he doing?
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Kind of like, I don't know, he got like this. And he was like making like fighting motions. I don't know. I'm not a fighter. I don't know. Okay. It was scary.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Was he coming at you like this? When he lunged at me, he came very quickly. Okay. So he lunged. Was his fist up when he lunged? I don't remember.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
This was the one time to tell everyone. What scared you so badly that you felt like you had to take this man's life? And we got hardly any information.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
In her closing, Suzanne O'Donnell asked the jury not to be swayed by Ashley's performance.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Did you ever see one tear come out of her eyes? Did you ever see one drop of liquid? One red eye? One swollen eye? That goes to her credibility.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
I've presented to you everything that I possibly could to show you that her action in using deadly force was reasonable.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Jurors left the courtroom to deliberate. They could find Ashley guilty of second-degree murder, manslaughter, or they could set her free. Six hours later, a note to the judge. The jury was deadlocked.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Members of the jury, I've received a note from you. It says, unable to come to unanimous verdict.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
You've put your heart and soul into this case, and then you hear that. It was heartbreaking, to say the least, if they were in fact going towards being hung.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
It was 10 p.m. The judge asked the jury to keep trying. And just one hour later, a verdict.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
We, the jury, find the defendant is guilty of manslaughter, a lesser included offense.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Guilty of manslaughter. Not guilty of second-degree murder. What's Ashley's reaction in that moment?
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
She feels crushed. You're talking also about a mother with a six-year-old child.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
David says Doug's daughter Eva feels the same way. After the verdict, she spoke to reporters outside the courthouse.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Ashley Benefield left the courtroom in handcuffs. The former ballerina, who once had big dreams, now faces up to 30 years behind bars. She will be sentenced next month. As for Emerson, now without either parent, she's being cared for by Ashley's mother. The sad irony, the custody battle continues.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
No child can go from their mother and their grandmother to our family in a single step, but we want to be a part of the child's life.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
What would you tell her about her father if she was someday watching this?
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
I would tell her that she had the greatest dad that she could ever have imagined and that he truly loved her. I love you.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Yes. After I instructed the deputy to see if she would be willing to go up to our office, we try not to do the interviews on the scene. There's just too much going on. I was told that she was willing to go to the office, but she wanted to see her daughter.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
He's thrown furniture. He would push her into a wall. I really believed he was going to kill her.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
At the time of the shooting, her three-year-old daughter Emerson was at a local park with her grandmother. The two returned to a chaotic scene.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
allowed them to walk up to the car where Ashley could see her daughter, but her daughter couldn't see Ashley in the back of the car. It's dark tinted windows and the window is up and that was acceptable to her. Did she talk to her mom at all? She did not at the scene at that point.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Then someone surprising showed up, Ashley's therapist. 28 years in law enforcement, unusual to see a therapist show up at a crime scene like this.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Yeah, I've never seen a therapist or a doctor that has shown at a crime scene, an active crime scene that has just occurred.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Meanwhile, at the sheriff's office, Deputy Justin Warren was waiting for Ashley to arrive, but someone else got there first.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Her clothing didn't appear to be stained or torn. She didn't look like she had any injuries.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Her attorney approached me out in front of the Sheriff's Office Operations Center and advised me she was her attorney, and the other two attorneys were on the way as well.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Three attorneys and a therapist. It was clear this was going to be an unusual investigation, especially after Deputy Warren started checking police records.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
So we started looking into these things. I'm like, oh, that's kind of interesting.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Turns out there was a long and twisted history between Doug and Ashley. This reads like a Lifetime movie. You have allegations of poison tea, stalking, murder.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
It goes on and on. Every time I thought, this is the craziest thing I've ever heard, then I would hear something else.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
She was making some allegations at some point that Doug had possibly poisoned his deceased wife.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
In the hours after shooting her husband Doug, Ashley Benefield was at the Manatee County Sheriff's Office. Investigators hoped she would fill in the gaps leading up to the moment she pulled the trigger.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
There were guns placed around this house. She ambushed him on that day in that room.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
We know that this is a self-defense claim. We know from the initial 911 call. So we need to find out exactly, to the best we can, what happened inside that house.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
But Ashley, sitting next to her attorney, exercised her right not to say anything.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
I know that we haven't talked yet, and we're not going to be taking a statement from you. That's fine.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
She wasn't under arrest, so Ashley was free to go. A few miles away at the hospital, doctors were trying to save Doug's life. But his injuries were too severe, and he died. His family was stunned.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Doug's brother David and cousin Tommy called Eva, Doug's 19-year-old daughter from a previous marriage, to break the news. This is such a devastating phone call.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Horrible. She begins wailing, and it was just one of the worst moments of my life.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
People are calling Ashley the Black Swan, this dark ballerina who is a cold-blooded killer.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Grief she knew all too well. Eva not only has lost her mom, but now she's lost her dad too. Eva's mom Renee died from a heart attack when Eva was only 15. Her dad was her whole world.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Eva talks about how wonderful he was. She said, he was my best friend. I could bring all my girl problems too. And I loved hearing that about it because that's the Doug that I knew.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Eva had struggled to accept her stepmom. And now detectives were diving into Ashley and Doug's May-December romance.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
So we start to kind of try to develop a little bit more background as far as what they were like together and what the relationship really was.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
They learned that Doug met Ashley in the summer of 2016, less than nine months after his wife died. The former Navy pilot was 54, deeply religious and worked in the defense industry. Ashley, 30 years younger, was a retired ballerina who modeled and taught dancing. The two instantly clicked at a dinner party hosted by former presidential candidate Dr. Ben Carson.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
The stunning part is they go outside the house, and she shows them a gun that she's carrying in the bra, her concealed carry in front of two Secret Service teams.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
These two really bonded over guns, God, and politics. It was part of their bonding for sure. Dr. Barbara Russell is Ashley's therapist, the same therapist who showed up at the scene the night of the shooting. She's known Ashley for years.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
He texted her, I believe, that very night. and pursued her after that. And that was the beginning of their whirlwind relationship that ended in marriage 13 days later. That is the definition of whirlwind. It certainly is.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Ashley moved from Florida to Doug's home in Charleston, South Carolina, where the newlyweds became business partners as well. They formed a ballet company. It was Ashley's dream come true.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Sarah Murawski was hired as a principal dancer. The nearly six-foot-tall ballerina says her height hindered her career. She bonded with Ashley, who was also tall, and was touched by Ashley and Doug's relationship.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
By the summer of 2017, Ashley was pregnant. Doug embraced the idea of being an older dad.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
But investigators discovered their bright smiles didn't tell the whole story. There was darkness beneath the surface of this relationship. Very much so. There was a lot of darkness. Ashley gave Dr. Russell permission to speak with us. She says Ashley told her Doug turned violent and abusive within weeks of their wedding.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
He's thrown furniture everywhere. He would push her into a wall, scream in her face, and punch the wall.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Then Ashley said the abuse turned sinister. Ashley believed that Doug was poisoning her while she was pregnant, her and the unborn child. Yes. Ashley claimed Doug would make her tea and was adamant she drink it even though she felt it made her sick. She began to suspect it was laced with something. Ashley also made this jaw-dropping accusation. Doug told her that he killed his wife, Renee.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
This is what she told you? Yes. Did he say how he killed his wife? He said he poisoned her. And the police will always believe him, and he will kill her too.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
About eight weeks into her pregnancy, Ashley said she felt she had no choice but to flee to her mom's place in Florida. The ballet company folded soon after. Ashley got a restraining order against Doug and didn't tell him when their daughter was born in the spring of 2018. She left his name off the birth certificate and asked a family court judge to terminate his parental rights.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
But even then, she said she couldn't escape him. She believed Doug was stalking her.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
He crossed three state lines, even with a restraining order, to follow her to Florida.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
The details of the shooting took Dr. Russell by surprise, given everything she'd heard about Doug and Ashley's relationship.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
I was so shocked that it wasn't Ashley that was dead. I really believed he was going to kill her.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Dr. Russell shared all this and more with detectives. Was she giving you insight into Doug and Ashley's relationship, about how volatile it was?
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
In addition to Dr. Russell's statement, police reports documented the couple's tumultuous relationship.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
I started searching in our computer records database and noticed that there were several reports going back, I think, to 2017 in reference to domestic violence, different complaints and things like that.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Given their history, investigators wondered if Doug's shooting was in fact a case of self-defense. But there was another side to this story, and it was a he said, she said for the ages.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Ashley was severely abusing him emotionally and through the control of the child.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Detective Justin Warren had a growing stack of evidence suggesting Doug Benefield was a violent and abusive husband. but when he spoke with Doug's family, they painted a different picture.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Growing up, he was a star athlete. He was a friend to everybody, just super kind.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
To anyone who hears about the negative side of Doug, in your eyes, this is just a snapshot, a small snapshot of a man who was so much more than that.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Absolutely. I don't want to make excuses for bad behavior, and I do not want to come across like I'm trying to say, You know, Doug was perfect and all this stuff. But no, but he owned his mistakes and he grew.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
David and Tommy acknowledge that Doug had a few angry outbursts, but say he regretted them and sought counseling. And David believes if anyone was a victim in the relationship, it was Doug.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Ashley was severely abusing him emotionally and through the control of the child. Doug was not doing any of that.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Ashley's therapist says that Doug told Ashley that he killed Renee. Is there any truth to that as far as you know?
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
This reads like a Lifetime movie. You have allegations of poison tea, stalking, murder.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
It goes on and on. Every time I thought, this is the craziest thing I've ever heard, then I would hear something else.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Attorney Stephanie Murphy represented Doug during his legal battles with Ashley.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
It takes grace, strength and passion to make it as a ballerina. One beautiful dancer and model had all that. plus the perfect partner to share her dreams.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
She tried to get Charleston law enforcement to exhume Renee's body to try to say that he had killed her. She was going to newspapers around the country talking about the poisoning. She made every allegation that she possibly could to multiple law enforcement agencies.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Detectives learned that Doug fought to see his daughter after Ashley filed to terminate his parental rights. The couple faced off in family court in the summer of 2018. Baby Emerson was six months old, and Doug had never met her.
Dateline NBC
Deadly Dance
Several times. Ashley also presented lab reports and expert testimony as proof Doug had poisoned her while she was pregnant. Ashley made it clear what she thought was at stake for her daughter.
Dateline NBC
Return to the Lake
The woman at the door was Susan Smith, a shy, quiet 23-year-old brunette who worked as a secretary at a local textile company. Tiffany Moss knew her from school.
Dateline NBC
Return to the Lake
On behalf of my family, we want to apologize to the black community of Union. I'm thankful, especially to many of my black friends who called me and, you know, to comfort me and to tell me that they still love me.
Dateline NBC
Unchecked Evil
It was just like normal. I was just like, okay, bye, like, have fun, or I'll see you later.
Dateline NBC
Unchecked Evil
I don't think any of us slept at all. We all stayed together the whole night. We had a lot of people. I think all of our parents came to our apartment and just were there to console us. It really just didn't feel real at all.
Dateline NBC
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
Michael's one of my best friends. He was a very strong man. He's a good man. He loved his family. He took care of his family. He wasn't sick. He wasn't ready to die.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
Well, Andrea, there was a ruling on an issue we've been talking about on the podcast for the past few weeks involving Reed's defense team and two expert witnesses they called to testify at her trial. The prosecution accused the defense of not disclosing how closely they worked with those two witnesses on their testimony and that they paid them thousands of dollars after the trial.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
The defense said they didn't do anything to cover up intentionally. What did the judge decide? Well, on Tuesday, the judge ruled that the defense attorneys did, in fact, make repeated misrepresentations, her words, about their relationship with the two experts. And Judge Canone issued an exceptionally stern warning to the defense.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
But the judge ruled that despite its misrepresentations, the defense team, including Alan Jackson, can remain in place and the experts are going to be allowed to testify again at Reed's second trial.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
Correct. That judge ruled that Karen Reed will be tried on the same three charges she faced at her first trial.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
Her defense team was trying to get the second-degree murder and the leaving the scene of the accident charges thrown out since they say several jurors contacted them after the trial and said the jury had unanimously agreed to acquit Reed on those two charges, and they were only hung on the manslaughter charge.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
But the federal judge said that wasn't enough to dismiss the charges, and her team is appealing that decision. And the defense has made a request to push back the trial date? Alan Jackson made that request because of that appeal that we just discussed. So we'll have to wait and see what the judge rules on that.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
Yeah, the only sign of Kunanki they found are items of her clothing on a beach chair. And she was last seen with a 22-year-old college senior from Iowa. His name is Joshua Reby. And last weekend, Reby was seen by NBC News on the beach with investigators pointing towards the sea. He said, I'm just trying to help them out. The ocean is a dangerous place.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
What went down at the hearing? Well, the judge laid out some parameters for Lori if she chooses to testify in her own defense.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
That's correct. The witness Lori is requesting is a tech expert who would review 22 terabytes of information on a hard drive. The problem is, according to the prosecution, the expert doesn't have enough time to review all that evidence before trial. And the judge basically asked Lori if she wanted to postpone the trial to give the expert more time.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
But Lori said she wants the trial to continue on schedule with whatever information the expert can gather in time.
Dateline NBC
A star defense witness takes the stand. The Zizians' leader in court. And a new scam called pig butchering.
They've asked the police to declare her dead, even though no body has been found.
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
Hey, Jim, is it cold and miserable out?
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
The prosecution is now alleging that the defense withheld information from the prosecution and the court about those contracted experts. And they say that the defense never disclosed that the experts received $23,000 for their testimony, nor that the defense collaborated with the experts on that testimony. The jury was told that they were retained independently.
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
So the hearing's been rescheduled for next week. So we'll see if the judge shares any more information about her decision to end the hearing early. And we'll see if she allows those experts back for Reed's second trial, which again is set for April.
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
Well, Blaine, there's a gag order in place, so there's a lot that the public still doesn't know about this case. But as the court has been gearing up for this summer's trial, there have been some hearings that talk about possible evidence in the case.
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
So we've known for a while now that Koberger was initially charged with the murders based on detectives allegedly matching his DNA to DNA found on a knife sheath left at the crime scene. But his defense has made this bombshell new claim. They revealed recently that detectives found blood at the crime scene from two additional males, both of whom are still unidentified.
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
At the scene, one male's blood was found on a railing inside the house where the four students were killed, and a different male's blood was found on a glove outside the house. Koberger's defense alleges that the police failed to disclose those unidentified blood samples to a judge when they sought that warrant for Koberger's arrest in December of 2022, and the prosecution has not disputed it.
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
So the group's leader, known as Ziz, legal name Jack Lasoda, was arrested last weekend in Western Maryland. Lasoda was charged with trespassing, having a handgun in a vehicle, and obstructing and hindering, all of which are misdemeanors. Now, police have arrested someone else here, too. Yeah, two other people, in fact.
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
One, Michelle Zyko, another Zizian who was a person of interest in the Vermont border guard shooting, plus the murders of that Pennsylvania couple who were actually Zyko's parents. Zyko was also only charged with misdemeanors.
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
The minister called and they said, do you remember my dad being killed? Never in a million years would you think that you'd see your parents' house taped off, the farm taped off by that yellow tape.
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
Here's that sound. So I started with just box number one, stores one through 25. Then box number two, stores 25 through 30.
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
Until I got to like 100 and I believe it was 108 or 118, I said, this is going to be impossible.
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
It took me probably three days and two nights.
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
I heard homicide. I heard it was important.
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
Out West, Josh pointed this out last night, Josh Mankiewicz.
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
He was dating my ex-girlfriend. It's all good. Whatever.
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
Reid was in court on Tuesday for a motions hearing when all of a sudden the judge suspended it.
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
Whole plus DHA. It's good for brain development. So we always try and get it to her.
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
Annie Long's. I like natural ice beer. Natty Ice. Natty Ice. Yeah.
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
No, not at all. I mean, no, it wasn't an issue at all for months.
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
Eventually, that call did happen. I mean, it's—it was part of—it's complex.
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
Yeah, as our listeners might remember, Reed went to trial, but there was a hung jury, and so her retrial is set to start in April.
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
So Reed was in court on Tuesday for a motions hearing when all of a sudden, about halfway through the day, the judge suspended it. And this is what she said when she addressed the courtroom.
Dateline NBC
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
She didn't say exactly, but just before she ended the hearing, the prosecution was discussing the defense's contracting of a company called ARCA. And ARCA works on accident reconstruction. And if you remember in Reed's first trial, the defense brought two ARCA experts to the stand, and they testified that the damage on Reed's SUV could not have been from hitting a pedestrian, i.e. John O'Keefe.
Dateline: True Crime Weekly
The 911 call in the Hollywood hairdresser murder. And investigators explore links between six violent deaths and a group called the Zizians.
Michael's one of my best friends. He was a very strong man. He's a good man. He loved his family. He took care of his family. He wasn't sick. He wasn't ready to die.
Dateline: True Crime Weekly
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
Here's that sound. So I started with just box number one, stores one through 25. Then box number two, stores 25 through 30.
Dateline: True Crime Weekly
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
Until I got to like 100 and I believe it was 108 or 118, I said, this is going to be impossible.
Dateline: True Crime Weekly
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
It took me probably three days and two nights.
Dateline: True Crime Weekly
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
I heard homicide. I heard it was important.
Dateline: True Crime Weekly
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
He made her call up her parents and admit that she was having an affair, correct?
Dateline: True Crime Weekly
An alleged "murder dentist" in Colorado. Hawaii husband takes the stand at his second murder trial. And Keith talks about his latest podcast series.
I mean, it's—it was part of—it's complex. In your previous testimony, you said you wanted her to own up to it, right? Yeah. I'm not sure. If you could please turn to Exhibit 402, page 155. Let me know when your memory is refreshed. Yes, I did see that.
This American Life
638: Rom-Com
That's not true. I have a number of men friends and there is no sex involved.