Unnamed Speaker 1

Right, right. That's crazy. Yeah, it was 1988. And I was kind of at a crossroads of where my career was going. The melatonin and pineal work hadn't quite panned out the way I wanted it to. But I was still interested in the pineal gland and in psychedelics mostly. Yeah. And I met Terrence a year or two before. He's the first person to give me DMT, actually.

Right, right. That's crazy. Yeah, it was 1988. And I was kind of at a crossroads of where my career was going. The melatonin and pineal work hadn't quite panned out the way I wanted it to. But I was still interested in the pineal gland and in psychedelics mostly. Yeah. And I met Terrence a year or two before. He's the first person to give me DMT, actually.

Yeah, 1986 or something.

Yeah, 1986 or something.

Yeah, 1986 or something.

And then a couple years later, I was driving down from Canada, stopped at their place, and we spent the day up in his loft library. Wow. Yeah. And, um, you know, we just, the, uh, the war on, uh, you know, the war on drugs was in full steam ahead. Uh, there was a lot of money being poured into it.

And then a couple years later, I was driving down from Canada, stopped at their place, and we spent the day up in his loft library. Wow. Yeah. And, um, you know, we just, the, uh, the war on, uh, you know, the war on drugs was in full steam ahead. Uh, there was a lot of money being poured into it.

And then a couple years later, I was driving down from Canada, stopped at their place, and we spent the day up in his loft library. Wow. Yeah. And, um, you know, we just, the, uh, the war on, uh, you know, the war on drugs was in full steam ahead. Uh, there was a lot of money being poured into it.

And we, we, we came up with the idea of the ultimate study, give DMT to people and see what it does. You can't really, you can't really argue with that. And, uh, I describe it as an abusable drug. It's a prototypical classic psychedelic. And people were still using psychedelics. And we didn't know how they worked or really what they did in the face of like 20 years of intervening animal research.

And we, we, we came up with the idea of the ultimate study, give DMT to people and see what it does. You can't really, you can't really argue with that. And, uh, I describe it as an abusable drug. It's a prototypical classic psychedelic. And people were still using psychedelics. And we didn't know how they worked or really what they did in the face of like 20 years of intervening animal research.

And we, we, we came up with the idea of the ultimate study, give DMT to people and see what it does. You can't really, you can't really argue with that. And, uh, I describe it as an abusable drug. It's a prototypical classic psychedelic. And people were still using psychedelics. And we didn't know how they worked or really what they did in the face of like 20 years of intervening animal research.

So there are pretty straightforward kinds of arguments that could have been used against studying the drug or for studying the drug. And I framed it as let's find out more and no value judgment placed on the work, no therapy or religious motivations.

So there are pretty straightforward kinds of arguments that could have been used against studying the drug or for studying the drug. And I framed it as let's find out more and no value judgment placed on the work, no therapy or religious motivations.

So there are pretty straightforward kinds of arguments that could have been used against studying the drug or for studying the drug. And I framed it as let's find out more and no value judgment placed on the work, no therapy or religious motivations.

Well, I think it works on the imagination. So if you can divide the mind into an intellectual part and an imaginative part, it's based on some of the ideas of Aristotle, that the imaginative part of the mind holds on to perceptions, emotions, feelings of certainty. And the intellectual part is ideas, abstract notions.

Well, I think it works on the imagination. So if you can divide the mind into an intellectual part and an imaginative part, it's based on some of the ideas of Aristotle, that the imaginative part of the mind holds on to perceptions, emotions, feelings of certainty. And the intellectual part is ideas, abstract notions.

Well, I think it works on the imagination. So if you can divide the mind into an intellectual part and an imaginative part, it's based on some of the ideas of Aristotle, that the imaginative part of the mind holds on to perceptions, emotions, feelings of certainty. And the intellectual part is ideas, abstract notions.

So I think that DMT ultimately stimulates the imagination as compared to stimulating the intellect. It makes things, you know, it appears, but what the appearance actually means is more dependent on the intellect.

So I think that DMT ultimately stimulates the imagination as compared to stimulating the intellect. It makes things, you know, it appears, but what the appearance actually means is more dependent on the intellect.

So I think that DMT ultimately stimulates the imagination as compared to stimulating the intellect. It makes things, you know, it appears, but what the appearance actually means is more dependent on the intellect.