Whitney Pennington-Rogers

And yet, the headlines often reduce migration to crisis and controversy, leaving out the bigger picture that movement is a natural, even necessary part of who we are.

As borders tighten and debates intensify, it's more important than ever to understand what's really driving migration today, how it's shaping our global future, and what it means for all of us.

To help us make sense of this moment, I'm thrilled to be joined today by two big thinkers in the space of human migration.

Journalist Sonia Shah, who is a past TED speaker and an author whose most recently released book, The Next Great Migration, unravels our historical understanding of migration and its impact on the present moment.

and Zeke Hernandez, who is a professor at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School and the author of The Truth About Immigration, which examines immigration's impact on the economy and beyond.

Hello to you both.

Hi, thanks for having us.

Thank you both so much for being here.

Well, we have so much to get into, so I'm just going to dive right in.

And I think one of the bigger questions around this issue when we think about migration is looking around to understand whether or not this moment feels different and actually whether it is different from others we've seen in history.

So that will actually be my first question.

I'd love to maybe start with you, Sonia.

In the work that you've done, you've sort of looked at the history of how we've migrated.

How does this moment compare to others in history?

So you're suggesting then Sonia that we're not actually seeing people migrate more than in the past.

It just feels like it based on the way the media is covering it.

Well, I think that actually leads to another point here, which is that migration has been a really huge political topic these days.

And I think one thing I find really interesting is that you both sort of make a point to tackle this topic from a place that largely leaves politics out of it and is sort of just looking at what you find to be the facts and the things that you've studied.

How do you think politicization of migration has impacted the way people think about migration?

And I'll ask you this because I know that's a huge part of your work and thinking about migration and how it sort of intersects with economics.