Will Grant

But that might not be possible.

So this is having a huge knock-on effect, because it's not the only way that oil supply is harming life in Cuba.

Rationing is taking place, of course, in terms of cars.

People can only fill...

About half a tank they can only pay in US dollars.

Health services are being affected, public transport, schools are being shuttered.

I mean, it is a very, very bleak picture on the island right now.

It's a pleasure, David.

Yeah, you can.

You can see it play out in real time.

I mean, the rolling blackouts in Havana alone, and then add on top of that, in the wake of the removal of Nicolas Maduro from power, the forced removal...

Their outlook looks even bleaker for Cubans because they are contemplating the very real possibility of the tap of Venezuelan crude being switched off.

And that Venezuelan crude has, to all intents and purposes, propped up the Cuban revolution for the past two and a half decades.

Well, I don't think we're there yet on that.

But let me give you a little picture.

There was a sort of anti-US imperialism march that went past the US embassy in Havana, led by the president.

And as that was happening, we were getting information on our phone that the now interim president, Del Cid Rodriguez, was meeting with the head of the CIA in Caracas.

And of course, I showed this information to a Cuban official and he sort of went grey because it does give the indication, the fear, I think, within the Cuban government is that it does signal a much greater willingness to work with the Trump administration and therefore sort of jettison the close relationship with Havana.

Correct.

And I mean, I think most estimates suggest that Venezuela has remained the main supplier of oil to Cuba.