Yo-El Ju

is a very difficult time.

That's probably like the most anxious time for everyone when they're awake.

And it can also be hard for people to get back to sleep, especially if they've used up that sleep drive that helps put them to sleep at the beginning of the night.

And it can be trickier to treat, especially with meditation.

because, you know, you obviously don't want any hangover sedation because people are going to have to get up in a couple hours, drive to work, you know, be at school and so on.

So we have kind of different medication strategies if we decide to go with medication.

But regardless of the time that people are having problems sleeping, I try to identify, well, what is actually causing you to have problems sleeping or what's waking you up to try to address that.

And then also our first line treatment for insomnia, it should be CBTI, which is cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia.

So it kind of doesn't matter when the insomnia is.

We do try to identify, you know, the sleep hygiene things we can improve, any bad habits people are engaging in, like having coffee or caffeine late in the day.

Or, you know, we try to identify what's actually causing insomnia because it is different.

There's no one size fits all.

Well, I mean, I think there's a lot of devices and

strategies shall we say to uh try to help people sleep and you know to get a better sleep score or to increase their slow wave sleep and for all of these i think that it's um it kind of feels sometimes like people are trying to like

build a big skyscraper but they don't have a foundation you know like you know the the basics actually do a lot you know keeping a regular wake time and sleep time um you know avoiding bright lights in the evening which will suppress um your own endogenous melatonin um

you know, exercise, which has enormous benefits on sleep and specifically slow-wave sleep.

You know, there's just so many things that we can do to actually improve our sleep that sometimes I wonder whether some of these fancy things that we talk about, I don't know if anyone would actually ever need them if they had the foundations in place.

So I thought it was pretty cool.

I mean, they...

It was a very sophisticated protocol in that they used fMRI, they did psychomotor vigilance testing to look for attentional lapses, they had EEG.