Zeke Hernandez

And so we need those things desperately.

And when you make the case that way, then it's much easier to think of why we want legal and regular pathways for immigrants to come, because we all need that.

And again, remember, we're in an environment where

populations are otherwise shrinking.

So we have no source of economic growth other than immigrants.

There is no other way that economic growth will happen other than with immigration, at least in countries that tend to be sort of the rich countries that receive immigrants around the world.

Yeah.

Could I respond to that for a second?

Of course.

Yeah.

I mean, I just want to expand on it, really.

I agree with what Sonia is saying.

But I think it's very important for us to understand where a lot of the concerns about immigrants come from.

And strangely, they come from sort of importing ideas about sort of natural ecological systems with limited resources to human systems and human populations, right?

And the core idea of

that has really been at the root of a lot of the anti-immigrant movements is the idea of carrying capacity, right?

That a natural ecosystem reaches its limit and cannot sustain anymore because resources run out and then you just have competition for resources.

But the fundamental misunderstanding of that is that human and economic systems are not that way.

Because of innovation, humans can increase the so-called carrying capacity of a system.

For example, humans are unlike animals in that they can invent solutions to their problems and work their way through them.