Zoë Grünewald

He's got a lot of support by party members.

Yes, a lot of support from party members.

I know, in a big way.

I think this is the thing.

Just stop it now, please.

This is the thing, right?

And when you talk about Andy Burnham, I think it's really easy to kind of canonise him.

But he served in many governments.

I mean, there's that joke, and I'm not going to repeat it because journalists always get a lot of stick for repeating it, about a brown knight, a Blairite, and a Corbynite walk into a bar, and it's Andy Burnham.

Yeah.

I did repeat it.

But, you know, it's this thing of, OK, he can be a bit of a chameleon.

Is he really this new fresh blood that the Labour Party needs?

No, I think you're right.

I think this reads as, and I think it's fair to interpret as, the leadership almost locking themselves in the bunker, right?

There is a real fear of a loss of control going on.

And I think the question that a lot of Labour MPs are going to be asking is, what is that control for if you're not putting that power that you've hoarded to good use?

Where's the vision?

Where's the using your majority for real structural change?

You can argue about the ideology or