Ever wonder why some movies and TV shows are so powerful and gripping? What makes for a deeply compelling story? Why George Clooney is so popular? Listen as Neal Baer, Hollywood TV writer and producer extraordinaire, talks about the craft and magic of storytelling in a way that will benefit almost everyone — including you.
Chapter 1: What makes a great film or episode?
We all spent hours watching movies and series on Netflix and Amazon and on TV. When filmmakers get it right, the stories and the characters resonate with us. People become emotionally engaged and we can even see the world in new ways. What makes a great film or episode and how can films help us see the world differently? Hi, everyone. I'm Lynne Thoman, and this is Three Takeaways.
On Three Takeaways, I talk with some of the world's best thinkers, business leaders, writers, politicians, newsmakers and scientists. Each episode ends with three key takeaways to help us understand the world and maybe even ourselves a little better. Today I'm excited to be with Neil Baer. Neil is one of the most successful writers and producers in Hollywood.
Chapter 2: How did Neal Baer start his career in TV writing?
He's worked on four hit shows that have aired for over 20 years and won multiple Emmys. Neil went to grad school in sociology and hated it. He also went to medical school. He randomly met the spouse of a friend who was a documentary filmmaker, and it changed his life. A director gave him a script that Michael Crichton had written.
The script captured doctors' lives in a way that had never been done before. Before, shows were always about the patients, and this script reversed it. Neil thought the script was outdated on the medical aspects, so the director said to him, fix it, and he did.
Then he was asked to write episodes for the show, and the show became the hugely successful TV series ER about the lives and work of doctors and staff at a hospital in Chicago. At the time, Neil was a fourth-year medical student at Harvard Medical School with huge debt. And he went out to LA, and he loved it. He loved telling stories and working on ER with actors like George Clooney.
He worked his way up from staff writer to story editor to producer to executive producer to showrunner of ER. And then after seven years at ER, he met Mariska Hargitay, who was the star of the show Law and Order Special Victims Unit. And he moved to Law and Order SVU. On SVU, he explored issues like teen access to abortion, guns, HIV, and euthanasia.
And after 11 years on SVU, he next worked on Under the Dome with Steven Spielberg. Following Under the Dome, he worked on Designated Survivor with Kiefer Sutherland. So he spent over 20 years on four hit series, ER, Law & Order SVU, Under the Dome, and Designated Survivor. That's extraordinary, given that most shows don't last beyond a single season or two seasons.
Neil has also worked with many great actors such as Kiefer Sutherland, George Clooney, Sally Fields, and Alan Alda. He's also worked with legendary directors like Steven Spielberg. And now he's working on a couple of Netflix series. I can't wait to see them when they come out.
I'm excited to find out from Neil what great storytelling is and how a great film, series, or episode can help us see the world in new ways. Welcome, Neil, and thanks so much for joining Three Takeaways today.
Thanks so much, Lynn, for having me. And thank you for the lovely introduction. I've been extremely fortunate to work on these shows. The first two shows I did, ER and SVU, covered 18 years of my career. And that is really unheard of. And I don't know if that could ever happen again. Probably not, though SVU is still on year 26, which is incredible.
I also want to say that when I did Under the Dome, I like to say it's the two Stevens because it's based on Stephen King's book. And I worked with Stephen King, who is the consummate storyteller and kind hearted person. So I have been extraordinarily lucky to work with so many amazing people.
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Chapter 3: What are some unforgettable stories in film?
Well, first and foremost, it's the relatability. It's like, we understand Sally as Norma Rae. We understand the position she's in. And her husband, Beau Bridges, is supportive, but he's not standing on the table with her. Her mother is being treated horribly. It's not well. And so we're for her. We love fighters for justice. So I think what makes...
These films, for me, stand out are the social justice that's embedded in them without being preachy. But it's just part of the fabric of these movies, like a movie like The Best Years of Our Lives. It's showing you what's happening with these World War II vets coming home, and one of them has lost his hands. Actually, Harold Russell, he won the Oscar for that. And
you see his struggle in a way that feels so real. Well, it was real for him, of course. But the other actors in it, Frederick March, Myrna Loy, all of them really capture the struggle after. That yes, there was jubilation after World War II, and we won and beat the Nazis. But there are also a lot of terrible things to deal with at home, just like what's happened again with Vietnam.
And then we can look at a film called Coming Home with Jane Fonda, Bruce Dern, and Jon Voight. Again, another great film about... that struggle of a Vietnam vet coming home and not being seen. I guess really what makes these movies resonate for me, and I think for the audience, it's about people being seen. People who haven't been seen and they become seen. And we all want to be seen.
We all want to be heard.
And how do you make that compelling? How do you make a story compelling?
Well, you hire the best actors possible, first of all, because don't scrimp on the actors and don't scrimp on the script. Get the best actors to tell the story. I've been so lucky because I've always demanded to have the best actors. And the best actors are people who can really... bring on that character that we can relate to. Why is Clooney so popular? Why is Mariska so popular?
We relate to them. There's something about them, some magic that we feel comfortable with them. And then you just have to be as honest as you can in your storytelling. We've all been on the line. We've all had to prove ourselves. So I'm always thinking about the sociological, anthropological, psychological elements that we're all human beings. We all share these moments.
And if we can make them honest and relatable with great actors, then we're way far down the road of getting something really good.
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Chapter 4: What makes a story compelling?
And the year two, I did where he saved a kid in the tunnel, and he was the hero. And I thought, you know, now I want to go deeper with him. And so I constructed a plot where he's forced to choose, is it about him, as Laura Innes says, or is it about the kid? But the point was, is that plot serves my characters always. So that's how I think about it.
Fascinating. How do you think that movies and series have changed people's perspectives on cultural and social issues? And can you give some examples?
The best example is Will and Grace and Modern Family and Gay Marriage, I think. It's like, they're just like you and me. They're just like, they have kids, they have a family. Modern Family and Will and Grace really changed, I think, the way people viewed gay marriage because
They didn't really challenge people in ways that maybe some queer activists wanted them to in the sense that they didn't go into the wide range of cultural, behavioral, social things that queer people might do that might quote, quote, quote, quote. offend, but they did really show that there's really not that much difference. They want the same thing. They want families.
They want to be left alone. They want to live a fulfilling life. And I think Modern Family did a good job at that. And Will and Grace, they normalized it. We haven't really been able to, quote, normalize trans characters. I brought trans characters on my show. I think it's normal for me as a physician and a gay man, but it's certainly not normal for a lot of people.
So I want to tell more of those stories and not in like cadre ways. So I think that's where we have to go.
Neil, what are the three takeaways you'd like to leave the audience with today?
The first takeaway is to listen to other people's stories, to tell them your stories. We can tell our own stories. We can tell about our own feelings, but we have to listen to other people's stories. We don't know what's best by telling people what their story should be. We should welcome people to tell their stories.
The second takeaway, I think, is to read widely and all kinds of things, novels, nonfiction, that will help develop compassion and also rage and what I call accompaniment. I think it's important. And the third takeaway is to go back and watch these movies, particularly that inspired you as a child and ask you, do they still inspire you? Do they still move you? Share them with folks.
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