Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
I'm Daniel James and you're listening to 7am. 7am. Senator David Pocock has been one of the fiercest advocates of the You Win Some, You Lose More report, known as the Murphree Review, and its recommendations to reduce the harms of online gambling.
It took the Albanese government 1,049 days to formally respond to the landmark inquiry that called for urgent action to reduce gambling harm, including the phased ban of gambling advertising.
When the government did finally release its response this week, it was hidden on Budget Day and stopped well short of that central recommendation, prompting anger from advocates and crossbenchers who say the government has failed to meet the scale of the problem.
I genuinely do think it's cowardly to try and slip it out when there's less attention. And I said it was disrespectful because they didn't even respond to these recommendations. They just said, yeah, we've noted this and we're doing something else. I think they should at least tell us why they don't think we need something like a regulator.
Chapter 2: What is the significance of the Murphy Review on gambling?
Today, Senator David Pocock on the government's handling of the Murphy Review, the power of the gambling lobby and why he says the response shows a failure of clinical leadership. It's Friday, May 15. Senator Pocock, in the middle of all the budget coverage this week, the Albanese government finally released its formal response to the Murphy Review into the harms of gambling.
What did you make of the timing? Hi, Daniel.
Yeah, very suspicious of their timing. After three years, the PM announced publicly what they were going to do in terms of a policy response the day before the Easter break. Then the one day of the year where basically every journalist in Canberra is locked up in a room with budget papers without their phone, they decide, well, we're going to respond to this report.
Respond is generous because they didn't actually respond to any recommendations, they just noted them.
Why do you think they didn't want anyone to see it?
Well, I think they're genuinely embarrassed about it.
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Chapter 3: Why did the government delay its response to the Murphy Review?
And there's a lot of pressure from backbenchers. It does not do the Murphy Report justice. As I said, they didn't even respond to individual recommendations. And what they've said that they're going to do, this partial ban, some money for an ad education campaign, and then cracking down on illegal offshore gambling,
goes nowhere near the central recommendations and is so out of step with what the vast majority of Australians want. There was a poll that came out the same day they released it. It was like 77% of Australians back a full gambling ad ban and 80% of Labor voters.
So of course you're just going to try and squeak this thing out during budget lock-up and just hope that there isn't much scrutiny of it.
You've mentioned some of the things that they've touched upon, but What is the government's formal response to the review? What have they said broadly about it?
They've said that they're going to go with a partial ban, which we know partial bans don't work. The government's own regulator says that partial bans don't work. In the past where there's been a partial ban, we've seen more ads from gambling companies.
And they've also gone with the option when they released their sort of policy response, there was the underlying analysis from the department that said that a full gambling ad ban is cheaper to enforce and better for Australians, has a larger benefit for Australians. A partial ban will be harder to enforce. won't benefit Australians as much.
They've just capitulated, sided with vested interests and not the Australian people. As I said, there's some money for an awareness campaign and then cracking down on illegal offshore gambling, which is exactly what the gambling companies have actually been pushing for. One of the tragic things about their
response is it doesn't address things like inducements, which Peter Murphy says was the most urgent thing we can do to reduce gambling harm was to ban inducements. Things like ongoing funding for gambling research, no response, nationally consistent data collection on gambling harm and suicide, That's a no brainer. We're the biggest losers in the world per capita.
Surely we can at least start collecting data on the harm.
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Chapter 4: How does Senator Pocock describe the government's handling of gambling legislation?
And then the other big one was establishing a national gambling regulator. It's an absolute travesty that we have gambling companies set up in the NT with basically no oversight.
If we just look at advertising, one of the areas where it seems to be confusing is streaming and online. If someone is watching sport through a streaming app or an online platform, are gambling ads actually banned?
It's not entirely clear yet. They've said that they're going to go with an opt-out. option where there will be gambling ads unless you go through the process of opting out. And we know SVS have done that for a while. I went through the process of opting out and it's actually a lot harder to do than you think or that it should be. And so I just don't understand why you're
For something that is a public health issue, that you're just putting the onus on parents and Australians to have to opt out on every service to Nazi gambling ads. It's a patchy ban. It's not the response we needed, but the legislation hasn't passed. I think there's an opportunity for Australians to ramp up the pressure on their local
member or senator who's meant to be representing them here in Parliament House. And the crossbench is certainly going to be putting a lot of pressure on both major parties.
How concerned are you that gambling advertising will just move from TV into social media, podcasts and other digital spaces?
Well, we're already seeing it there. What's happened in the past is that when you block off certain times or one type of media, that money just shifts and you just see so much more. And we've just been so saturated with gambling ads. that three out of four young people now think that gambling is just a normal part of enjoying sport.
And as a former professional athlete, I've benefited so much from sport. It was such a big part of my life. I learned so much about myself, had so many great opportunities and absolutely loved it. And one of the things that Peter Murphy warns about in her forward to the, you win some, you lose more report, was that we really risk detracting what
from what sport is actually about we are undermining this thing that so many australians love by gambling attaching itself to sport so you know there's a lot of there's a lot at stake here and that's exactly why we need a phased in gambling ad ban you know, losses in revenue for free-to-air, for grassroots sport. We're a very wealthy country.
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Chapter 5: What are the main criticisms of the government's response to gambling harm?
The government is already saying that this is still progress nonetheless, and that a partial package is better than no package. Is there anything in it you welcome?
Why should we settle for something partial? Three ads an hour for kids, is that acceptable? This is something that so many parents stop me in the street about and say, you can't get away from these ads. I hear them on Spotify between kids' songs. Why on earth are we saying that it's okay just to have a half-baked response and, well, it's better than nothing?
That doesn't cut it, particularly when you have a crossbench. The government would have the numbers to actually implement the Murphy Report in full, and there's bills in the House and the Senate. that would do that. Everyone knows the human cost that this is having.
Daniel, over the last, I don't know, 18 months, the number of young men that have stopped me in the street, pulled me aside at events and said, mate, can I just chat to you privately? One, thanks for what you're doing, pushing for a gambling ad ban, pushing for banning inducements. Two, I've got to tell you my story. It's always about the shame that people feel about their gambling addiction.
You watch the ads, this is about having fun with your mates, having a win, enjoying sport, being an Aussie larrikin. The reality is people lying in bed at 3 AM, scrolling their phones, chasing losses, getting an inducement, getting back on the bandwagon. It's devastating, and we need an evidence-based public health response to this.
That is the Murphy Report, and yet we've got a government that is captured by vested interests.
If we talk about vested interests here, you work in Parliament. What have you noticed about the strength of the gambling lobby and the way it's been able to speak with decision-makers when it comes to formulating this legislation?
Well, they're ever-present. They're here a lot. They've, in the past, paid to be part of the parliamentary sports club so that they can come and play parliamentary sport in the morning. I took exception to the fact that the Parliament House Sports Club is sponsored by the gambling lobby and was kicked out of the sports club for saying that.
Apparently, I've been invited back, but I haven't actually heard heard from them. So it's just totally normal.
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Chapter 6: What does the government propose regarding gambling advertising?
Cheers. Also in the news, former Jackie Lambie senator Tammy Tyrrell has made a surprise switch to Labor. The Tasmanian senator fell out with Lambie in 2024, becoming an independent. Now she's become the second senator to join Labor's ranks in 12 months. Anthony Albanese confirmed Tyrrell was courted by the Labor Party. And Coles has been found to have misled shoppers by offering fake discounts.
A judge finding 13 of the 14 price cuts submitted to the court weren't genuine savings. The federal court ruled that the supermarket giant didn't sell products at the higher price for long enough before putting them on the down-down promotion. Judge Michael O'Brien will rule on a similar case against Woolworths at a later date.
You can find out more on the supermarket's dodgy practices and the implications of this decision for shoppers in Tuesday's episode of 7am with Greg Cherico. I'm Daniel James. Thanks so much for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.