American Alchemy with Jesse Michels
How “Gifted Education” Was Exploited By The UFO Program [Whistleblower Tells All]
16 Jun 2026
Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: How was the Gifted and Talented Education program utilized?
you have one of the most extraordinary stories of anyone i know be sure to tell me the whole story by all accounts i was a normal person life was great things were working out well in my favor and then things took a turn early 2023 i began to unravel This was like very brutal PTSD level of flashbacks. I was remembering and having nightmares of being in labs, being surrounded with people.
I was completely removed from the public school system for multiple years of my life.
Shovels marked the start of construction of the new $16 million facility at Baker Victory Services.
I was in the gate classroom. I drank the pink drink. It's just that there was a progression of more.
And what sort of experiments would they have you do? And what would they test you on?
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Chapter 2: What experiences did Jordan Jozak have during his childhood?
These UAP, UFO, other materials, they're not flown with joysticks. They're flown through the mind. I would lay in a deep meditation, I would have some type of sedative, and shift my consciousness into a set object or some vehicle and become it. Pilot it up and down, move it left and right.
From what I understand, what they were trying to do is build a brain neural interface that would reproduce the brainwave signals that I was sending out, so then you could boil it back down to someone with a controller.
That is wild.
The people in the program had this thing. They called it a relic. And sitting at the center of the coffee table, it's a literal crystal orb, but the inside of this orb was alive. Whoa. And as I locked eye contact with it, the inside structure, it adapts and it, like, changes. Oh, my God. And it's almost as if this object, as I'm looking at it, is now looking back at me, right?
Consciousness is actually the root of disclosure. It's you, your disclosure, consciousness, awareness, the fact that the world is not as we see it. It's constantly evolving. Like that's the epitome of disclosure.
The existence cannot longer be denied.
there's a state that researchers call hypnagogia, that threshold between waking and sleep where the brain is doing something genuinely unusual. It's where a lot of people report their most vivid experiences, the kind of thing that comes up in remote viewing accounts, other altered states research, and some of the most fascinating conversations I've had on the show.
Since moving to Austin, sleep is something I've thought a lot more about, mostly because I don't get a ton of it. Until recently, I was sleeping on a mattress that I've had for the last 10 years, and it was clearly not helping me get the sleep I need. When I finally decided I need to fix that, a friend told me to try Helix, and I'm so glad I did.
They actually have a sleep quiz that matches you to the right mattress based on your sleep position, your body type, and whether you sleep hot or cold. I got matched with Helix Midnight with the cooling cover, which I know is going to matter a lot in these very hot Austin summers. While I've loved my Helix mattress for a while now, Helix also recently sent me their Comfort Adjust cooling pillow.
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Chapter 3: How did Jordan's memories resurface in 2023?
And Helix was recently named one of USA Today's most trusted brands for 2026. Visit helixsleep.com slash Jesse Michaels, Michaels with no A, to take advantage of their 4th of July sale and get 20% off today. site-wide and be on the lookout for additional sales on the Helix site. Thank you so much to Helix Sleep for sponsoring this episode. Jordan Jozek, it is an honor to have you.
You have one of the most extraordinary stories of anyone I know. And you've turned some very dark things in your childhood and life into a very positive mission and message. And I think you're remarkable. And I'm just honored to Because I know it's not easy for you to do this and to tell your story that you are doing this on our show. It means a lot to me.
Yeah. Thanks so much for having me on, Jesse. This show has been a long time coming, and I'm just as honored to be in the position here to present it with you.
The honor is mine. Why don't we back up to 2023? Because you were, by all accounts, a normal and very high-functioning, successful person. Do you want to describe, just like give a snapshot of your life at the time?
Yeah, yeah, definitely. So 2023, I was a very normal, run-of-the-gun person. I was a serial entrepreneur, so I had some successful ventures in business. I worked in the tree care industry. I was working in kind of applied agentic AI in late 2023. It's early for agentic AI. Very early, very early.
We were doing some cool things with wildfire prevention and very cool, just like next generation research to help utility companies. Super proud of what I was doing at the time. And yeah, by all accounts outside looking in, as well as from the inside looking at myself, I was a normal person. Success driven. Life was great. Things were working out well in my favor.
And then, as you know, things took a turn. Yeah. Things took a turn when I kind of went through some personal struggles, was going through some relationship challenges, was also working in the startup field. So just very high stress.
And getting into like late 2022, early 2023, just with some triggering things in normal life, I began to unravel, for lack of a better word, and unravel in a sensation that brought back what I could only describe as childhood memories that I had not previously recollected. I was remembering a life that didn't feel like mine.
And it wasn't just like simply, hey, I was remembering something all of a sudden. This was like very brutal PTSD level flashbacks, throwing myself out of bed with nightmares. After this kind of triggering moment, just where work was boiling up against my relationship changes, all of it came flooding back to where I was remembering things that like I couldn't place in linear time.
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Chapter 4: What was the significance of the crystal orb named Sylvia?
I thought like, Hey, did I just draw the crazy straw? Did something happen to me psychologically? Uh, so I did what a normal person would do, right? Like went out, sought help, um, started working with therapists and began to figure out that what I was recalling, uh, was actually dissociated parts of my childhood.
Wow. And prior to that, What had you kind of conceived of when it came to your childhood? Did you have this kind of linear full memory of it?
Not at all. But in that same respect, how many people really think about their childhood? Right.
Like, do you remember your childhood linearly? No, it's funny. I was just recounting like my, you know, elementary school teachers and it was a struggle, but I was like able to like do it. But it's not something that's top of mind. Exactly. Yeah.
Yeah. And that was my same experience with it, too. It was like I thought, to the best of my knowledge, I lived a very normal life. You know, grew up in a small rural town. Things were just normal for me, for lack of a better word. And graduated high school, went on to be a very success-oriented person, beat cancer at a very young age, at age 20. That's amazing. And then, yeah, just went off.
I was just like a hardworking, committed individual, and life was good. Um, and then the memory started, like I said, and these memories weren't typical memories. These weren't even necessarily memories of just what someone would consider like abuse or something that, um, you know, our brain from an aspect of protecting us from trauma would hide.
They were simply things that I didn't even have the vernacular to articulate. So I was remembering and having nightmares of being in the labs, um, being surrounded with people that I learned to recognize and learn to actually remember names and
All of this went on for about a period of about two months where I was having severe PTSD, remembering all these childhood experiences, lab settings, things I didn't have the vocabulary for. And then I eventually just began investigating my own past because at a certain amount of volume of this, at a certain amount of, wow, I'm a grounded individual. I can journal about this.
I'm not making this up. What is this? I began to look into my own past. And what I found was that I was completely removed from the public school system for multiple years of my life. My parents were told a story that was not essentially what happened to me in person. And upon leaving the program that I was admitted into, I lost all memory of those experiences until they resurfaced in 2023. Yeah.
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Chapter 5: How are psychic abilities linked to flying UFOs?
And that's how you fly them. That's how you actually get them to show up. And what he calls P3s, people with psionic predisposition potentials, and they're sort of flying the crafts. And then you have, like you said, they're the ones who are kind of heart-centered, but they're also sometimes kind of, you know... Given a lot of pharmacological aids, that's a total euphemism.
You know, they're they're drugged to get into these states. And then you have people from the Air Force, just ordinary people using these people to fly the objects. It's really crazy.
Yeah, it it sounds incredibly sci fi. But like, that's the reality of it. Yeah.
That's so wild. And so do you know what you're locking on to? Do you know what the objects are that you're locking on to when you're sitting in this chair? What happens?
So I don't know. How would I say this? I don't know how to answer that specifically. What I can tell you is there were different objects.
Okay.
So just like in the Skywatcher environment, right? We were seeing different classes of UAP, right? Yes. To my understanding, the military industrial complex has multiple classes of UAP. Some may be the manta ray style, some may be the triangle, some may be this. And every person, almost on a consciousness level signal, would perhaps mate up or not mate up with some of them.
So it was like, I might work very well with object A, but I can't work with object B or C. And in my localized like testing and experience, like again, this was like two years of highly standardized like preparation to get me to a point where I would have been doing that full time. Right. But again, it didn't happen in my life story. Thank God. So in my experiences, they were highly limited.
It was just like I got the muscle memory. They got to see that I could do it. But it wasn't like I was doing this every day. It wasn't like, hey, go take the UAP and run a mission or something like that. It's just I had enough times where I ran through the process to be able to articulate it back here today.
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Chapter 6: What role does consciousness play in experiencing UFOs?
And for context, just for the audience, you mentioned Skywatcher. I've done a show with James Fowler, Jake Barber, who also kind of, you know, Ross Coldheart originally introduced his story to the world. He worked for a contractor that was probably Northrop Grumman. That's through my own and other people's open source research. That's not his own admission. He said you could probably guess.
So I want to make that clear. But he basically said that he retrieved a couple of crafts. One was an eight gone shaped. It had eight different sides. And the other was an egg shaped craft. And he was this helicopter pilot who.
went through the Air Force combat control pipeline and was then sheep dipped or erased basically from the special forces, you know, traditional pipeline and turned into kind of this ghost who was doing extremely sensitive missions for nuclear emergency support and with high value targets and that sort of thing. And that involved UFO crash retrievals.
After he came out, he started this organization called Skywatcher and you were a part of this. And this involved essentially getting people with the psionic predisposition potentials to call in craft. And then also calling in the craft with these sort of machine-based systems. Is that right?
Yeah. So to give a little bit more context here, too, to kind of wrap this up for people, all of these were experiences in childhood for me, right? And we started this to show out. I had no memory of this for a lot of years. So like 2023, things completely burned down, right? I'm having memories of this. Good luck, right? Who do you call? Yeah.
I think I was a part of this compartmentalized program, right? There's no resource for you. So I just did my best to, you know, find ways to psychologically get myself better without, you know, getting labeled schizophrenic, right? Without going out the deep end and without killing myself.
I had a suicide attempt, you know, to be completely honest with you in January of 23, because I cannot speak to the level of disparity of like, wow, you wake up in a matter of two months and remember an entire childhood that you once forgotten. You have records, you know, describing a life that you don't remember.
Like, it feels very Jason Bourne-y, but instead you're the main character in Stranger Things.
Dude, I can only imagine. And I'm so grateful that you're here and you're so good. You know, you're on such a good wavelength and you have such a good trajectory. And... I don't know how you integrate, uh, that amount of, uh, traumatic past experience in such a short period of time. Uh, especially when it, it comes up unprovoked.
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Chapter 7: How do synchronicities influence our reality?
Yeah, go for it.
Yeah. So this happens in 23 and it starts a long-term healing process. You know, met some amazing people, you know, build some trust along the way, but just like highly independent, trans journaling, highly, you know, basically ways to deal with this trauma. And I started just investigating my own past, right? Like, where did this happen? Who are these people?
You know, how did this all essentially happen to me? And that got to getting into like 2024. And as people know, right, at this time, David Grush had stepped out, reported to Congress. And I was essentially looking at like, well, here's the missing piece, right? Like I experienced it and lived it. And in 2024, after going through just a lot of healing and
getting all of the supporting records, evidence, all of everything to kind of just support the credibility in my case, I made contact with Ross Colhart and flew down to DC, met with Ross, you know, did the, you know, follow the same footsteps as many others, right? Did the whole testimony. And it was at that point that Ross introduced me to Jacob Barber.
So this was before Jacob Barber had went public. I met him, I think it was like June of 24 or something along those lines and
um but yeah i was developing a relationship with ross he was highly highly supportive and introduced me to jake and he said like hey here's this guy uh i've been working with behind the scenes and at that point uh jake was the first individual that knew what i was talking about that i had like truly encountered because i worked up many channels before this i was you know trying to talk to
State police departments, this, this, this. I was talking to other people, ex-agency people. And it really speaks to the level of compartmentalization that aspects of the legacy program have. It's a far smaller club than most people think. Far smaller club.
Um, but I finally made contact with Jake and, uh, you know, hearing from Jake, you know, essentially he, he experienced many similarities, you know, I, I, I think just by, uh, latitude of being involved in the operations that he was involved with, he was familiar with what I went through, uh, you know, in childhood.
And he was also gifted and talented education. He was, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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Chapter 8: What can we learn from the relationship between consciousness and UFOs?
I'm not really a whistleblower, right? But like, I'm attempting to try to do right, right? I'm trying to find the right people to get an investigation open. And, you know, then you meet these wonderful guys at the top, right? Like pinnacle of special operations community. Like, yeah, we've been doing this for years, right?
And that was really what I think a lot of people missed from the Skywatcher, you know, story was they looked at it very surface level. But like, also, there's just a lot of very credible people who have been trying to fight the good fight and get information out. So,
I elected to kind of join the team and lead the psionic operations piece of really with the principle of if our government is not going to disclose, perhaps we can create the conditions necessary, document that and bring that to science and bring that to the world. So we don't need our governments, right? Had an amazing time with them. Great people.
Worked with some of the best operators that I've ever worked with in my life. But I've actually left the Skywatcher team last July. And the reason being, highly personal for me, but I was just kind of beginning to get the sensation that we need less military, honestly, right? We need less of this kind of like...
wounded masculine we're gonna go figure this out what we actually need is like the public support we need the next generation thinkers we need the next generation industry to begin working on disclosure we don't need the highly compartmented i've worked in defense my entire life and you know that's been my trajectory i just don't see that being the best like next chapter for us yeah also i would say you know and and i've
I'm always of like a split mind, right? Like to the people who are like there was nothing going on and they weren't provoking any sort of UFOs to appear. I'm like, no, I think they were. I think a lot of stuff was showing up for them. And then and that's sort of, you know, got to hold those people at bay. And then on the other side. Yeah.
And you can somehow provoke these things to come and then use them in some instrumental way to derive material to confer a tactical warfare advantage via an adversary. Just feels like the wrong framework overall. It's like that doesn't feel like if you want. Yeah. Yeah. You can have an infinite range of things you can do with your life. Maybe not an infinite, but a wide range.
maybe, maybe don't do that.
Yeah. Yeah. Like, so, so for example, like from the psionic, you know, portion of this, and I, and I, I lead these experiences for people want to go interact, right? It's not, Hey, follow this three steps. It's, it's highly heart-based.
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