AnthroDish

173: Bringing Caribbean Flavours to European Fine-Dining Menus with Chef India Doris

17 Mar 2026

Contributed by Lukas

When heard about the work that chef India Doris is doing with her new restaurant, Markette, in bringing Caribbean heritage and flavours to European-st...

172: Learning to Cook in Front of the Entire Internet with Jamie Tracey

10 Mar 2026

Contributed by Lukas

For anyone that grew up without a strong sense of connection to cooking or eating cultural foods, it can be daunting to get into the kitchen and make ...

171: Breaking Down the Myth of a Singular Caribbean Foodway with Chef Leigh-Ann Martin

03 Mar 2026

Contributed by Lukas

When it comes to Caribbean food, there tends to be a viewpoint that it can be a monolithic culinary experience. And particularly as those living in co...

170: Ingredients for Building a Community Through a Cottage Bakery with Teresa Finney

24 Feb 2026

Contributed by Lukas

What does it take to make the most out of the internet when you're building a micro or cottage bakery? My guest today, Teresa Finney, is here to expl...

169: Do Food Justice Movements Understand Community Needs? with Dr. Hanna Garth

17 Feb 2026

Contributed by Lukas

My guest this week, Dr. Hanna Garth, is here to speak to how food justice movements are affected by long-term misconceptions and assumptions about the...

168: What is the Relationship Between Nutrition and Intuition? with Stephanie Voytek

10 Feb 2026

Contributed by Lukas

My guest this week, Stephanie Voytek, is a registered dietician here to walk through some of the key issues around nutrition and anxiety in our curren...

167: Rethinking Cultural Food Security in UK School Systems with Sarah Oresnik

03 Feb 2026

Contributed by Lukas

My guest today, Sarah Oresnik, is a PhD candidate in the Department of Anthropology at McMaster University. Their research interests centre around foo...

166: How Daily Bread is Tackling Toronto's Food Insecurity Crisis with Mike Greenberg

27 Jan 2026

Contributed by Lukas

Here in Canada, we have a food security crisis—and a cost-of-living crisis. While there are many, many factors that are shaping this continued issue...

165: Terroir, Taste, and Wine Pairing for the People with Cha McCoy

20 Jan 2026

Contributed by Lukas

To kickstart the second half of AnthroDish season 10, we're shifting to a topic I generally feel very intimidated by: wine. But, as my guest Cha McCoy...

164: Embracing Seasonality in Edomae-Style Sushi with Chef Cheng Lin

16 Dec 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Edomae sushi is an Edo style of sushi making that underscores marinating, curing, and aging techniques. Within that, there is one chef, Cheng Lin, sta...

163: How Community Supported Fisheries Promote Sustainable Seafood with Sonia Strobel

09 Dec 2025

Contributed by Lukas

My guest today, Sonia Strobel, is here to explore the idea of community-supported fisheries. Sonia is co-founder and CEO of Skipper Otto, a Community ...

162: Behind the Rise of Non-Alcoholic Drinks with Ren Navarro

02 Dec 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Why are we seeing such a boom in non-alcoholic drink options, and how do they stand out from wellness beverages as their own specific category?  I in...

161: Are Our Fridges Designed for Food Waste? with Emma Atkins

25 Nov 2025

Contributed by Lukas

My guest this week, Emma Atkins, is here to explore the role that refrigeration has played in our food waste. Emma is a PhD researcher at the Universi...

160: Exploring Nigerian Culinary Histories through Recipes with Ozoz Sokoh

18 Nov 2025

Contributed by Lukas

In Nigeria, the word chop is used for food and feasting, and to say "come chop" is an invitation into sharing and community. This is precisely how Ozo...

159: What Could a Just Food System Really Look Like? with Dr. Bryan Dale

11 Nov 2025

Contributed by Lukas

My guest today, Dr. Bryan Dale, is here to explore these nuances. Bryan is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Environment, Agriculture, and G...

158: Honouring Asian Ingredients in Cookie Baking with Kat Lieu

04 Nov 2025

Contributed by Lukas

My guest today, Kat Lieu, is a Vietnamese-Chinese cookbook author, and here to share more about how she's challenging this through her new cookbook, 1...

157: Preserving Palestinian Cuisine During Genocide with Lama Obeid

28 Oct 2025

Contributed by Lukas

As this episode airs, it has been just over two years of Israel's ongoing genocide in Gaza. Tens of thousands of Palestinian people have been killed, ...

156: Cooking through the Silk Roads with Anna Ansari

21 Oct 2025

Contributed by Lukas

If you grew up in the Western world, it's entirely possible you've heard of a singular Silk Road used for trade between two major entities, Europe and...

155: Queers at the Table with Dr. Alex Ketchum and Dr. Megan Elias

14 Oct 2025

Contributed by Lukas

What makes food queer? Is it possible to name and list it out as simple, clearcut elements? In their new co-edited volume, Queers at the Table, Drs. A...

154: Episode 10 Launch! [SOLO Episode]

07 Oct 2025

Contributed by Lukas

A solo episode to kickstart season 10 of AnthroDish - exploring diverse themes of community this year relating to food, culture, and identity.  Webs...

153: Setting a Place for Recipes of Displacement & Community with Hawa Hassan

20 May 2025

Contributed by Lukas

As season 9 of the podcast draws to a close, it's feeling like a full circle moment thematically. The conversations began this season around what it m...

152: Documenting the Undocumented through Food with Jill Damatac

06 May 2025

Contributed by Lukas

The idea of a pristine kitchen with clean countertops feels distinctively American, or an all-American idealist. However, the concept of the American ...

151: What Can Local and Seasonal Food Networks Look Like? with Colin Fontaine

29 Apr 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Perhaps now more than ever, there's renewed appreciation for the intricacies of our food systems' deep dependence on a global supply chain. However, t...

150: Italian Pasta Nights with an American Accent with Renato Poliafito

22 Apr 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Throughout this season, we've been exploring immigrant narratives around food: roles in food systems, labour, and diasporic food stories. Part of this...

149: Unbottling the Problems of Bottled Water with Daniel Jaffee

15 Apr 2025

Contributed by Lukas

A plastic bottle of water powerfully represents the state of our current environmental and health priorities. That water can become commodified while ...

148: Masala, Maíz, and Movement - Ingredients for Decolonizing Plates with Norma Listman and Saqib Keval

01 Apr 2025

Contributed by Lukas

On the show today are Norma Listman and Saqib Keval, looking at the solutions and communities that can be built when activism and ethical values are a...

147: What Canada Ate - The Role of Cookbooks in Culinary History with Dr. Rebecca Beausaert

18 Mar 2025

Contributed by Lukas

As most historians will tell you, the past can help make sense of a lot of the present, but maybe in unexpected or novel ways—like through cookbooks...

146: Flavour's Role in Food System Fixes with Franco Fubini

12 Mar 2025

Contributed by Lukas

The idea of industrial food systems is flat, heavy, and feels complex to access. It brings up connotations of very bland, hyper-processed foods made t...

145: Exploring the Biodiversity of Climate-Smart Crops with Shreema Mehta

04 Mar 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Industrial food systems tend to use mono-crop and unilinear approaches to supplying the Global North with food. But what happens when we consider more...

144: The Rich History of Georgian Wines with Sarah May Grunwald

25 Feb 2025

Contributed by Lukas

When it comes to wine, I have a tendency to retreat and panic: I don't know anything, and I certainly don't feel like I have the means to access the k...

143: Unpacking the Absent Food Citizen in Policy with Isabela Bonnevera

18 Feb 2025

Contributed by Lukas

This week, we're exploring the idea of the food citizen, or perhaps more accurately, the absent food citizen, with Isabela Bonnevera. Isabela is a doc...

142: What Role Does Food Play in Fiction Writing? with Margaux Vialleron

26 Nov 2024

Contributed by Lukas

One of the most frustrating parts of watching Gossip Girl growing up was witnessing the elaborate breakfast spreads that the families had each morning...

141: Uncovering Medieval Pictish Foodways through Paleobotany with Dr. Shalen Prado

19 Nov 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Oftentimes, when we think about plant-human relationships, we're thinking about our contemporary lives and how plants factor into it – be it North A...

140: Recovering from Restrictive Online Diet Myths with Dr. Sarah Ballantyne

12 Nov 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Diet culture on the internet is excellent at sensationalizing our food to the point of panic. I'm sure many of you have seen the videos across TikTok ...

139: What Makes for Good Food Policy? with Chef Joshna Maharaj

05 Nov 2024

Contributed by Lukas

One downside I find when I spend too much time on the internet is that there's an overwhelming viewpoint that the system is broken and there's not muc...

138: Fish, Wine, and Letting Go of Ego in Southern France with Steve Hoffman

29 Oct 2024

Contributed by Lukas

In the daily grind of work under capitalism, I'm sure I'm not alone for dreaming of something more to life. Usually, this takes the shape of going som...

137: Transformations through Fermentation and Oracle Decks with Julia Skinner

22 Oct 2024

Contributed by Lukas

As far as public conversations around fermenting, we've come a long way as a society in our understanding of what that is in 2024. So with that, deepe...

136: Beer (and Everyone) Still Has a Diversity Problem with Ren Navarro

15 Oct 2024

Contributed by Lukas

If you've listened to AnthroDish regularly over the last few years, you'll know that Ren Navarro is a champion of diversity and inclusion within the b...

135: Growing Olive Trees in Texan Heat with Dr. Vikram Baliga

08 Oct 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Climate change is a daunting reality for many of us – there's a lot of anxiety around understanding what's happening and how it affects our communit...

134: The Art of the Plant-Based Table with Chloé Crane-Leroux and Trudy Crane

01 Oct 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Eating is so central to our ways of connecting as people and communities, but how we show up and make space around food is a practice of care and art....

133: How to Break Down Diet Culture and Live Nourished with Shana Minei Spence

24 Sep 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Spend too much time on the internet these days and you can walk away with a lingering sense of body shame, dietary uncertainty, and overall not-great-...

132: What Makes Food Hearty? with andrea bennett

17 Sep 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Our relationship with food in North America is such a deeply fascinating, contrasting, nuanced and complicated one. There's so much to consider – bo...

131: Season 9 Launch [Solo Episode]

10 Sep 2024

Contributed by Lukas

As we start up season 9 of the podcast, I wanted to share some life and technological updates, as well as what you can expect of this season. Food fee...

130: Invisible Labour Behind Chicken Nuggets: The Immigrants Taking on America's Largest Meatpacking Industry with Alice Driver

03 Sep 2024

Contributed by Lukas

We've heard stories about how chicken nuggets are riddled with questionable ingredients, but what gets missed when looking at industrial meat producti...

129: Third Culture Cooking, TikTok Foods, and Kung Food Cookbook with Jon Kung

28 May 2024

Contributed by Lukas

For our last episode this season, we're exploring what it means to cook from a third culture kitchen. There's been growing discussions online of what ...

128: Heydays at the June Motel - Translating a Lakeside Summer Cuisine into a Cookbook with Katie Laliberté

14 May 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Here in Ontario, we're just hitting the warmer spring weather after a grey and cloudy winter, and anyone living up north can attest to the amount of d...

127: How Local Journalism Explores the Foods of the American South with Hanna Raskin of The Food Section

09 Apr 2024

Contributed by Lukas

News media at large is in a challenging position this year: we've seen mass layoffs across digital media, local news, TV, print, even podcasts and doc...

126: The Ikaria Way: How Mostly Plant-Based Foods Maintain a Greek Island's Longevity with Diane Kochilas

03 Apr 2024

Contributed by Lukas

You may be familiar with the Greek island of Ikaria through the popularity of "Blue Zones" and the idea that these regions of the world can provide in...

125: Sesame, Soy, Spice: Using Plant-Based Recipes to Honour Heritage and Healing with Remy Morimoto Park

26 Mar 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Thinking about "typical" types of veganism can reveal a lot of fascinating Western stereotypes or biases around what it does and doesn't entail. And y...

124: How Microgreens Weave Indigenous Knowledge and Western Science for Food Futures with Natalie Paterson

19 Mar 2024

Contributed by Lukas

One of the pitfalls in sustainability movements is this assumption that we're all working from an equal playing field, when the reality is that oftent...

123: The Power of Showcasing Immigrant Restaurant Stories with Maggie Leandre of CharisMaggieTV

12 Mar 2024

Contributed by Lukas

If you've been a regular listener to this podcast, you know that food is central to all of our discussions around identity, culture, belonging, and se...

122: Celebrating the Diversity of Torontonian Food through The Depanneur Cookbook with Len Senater

05 Mar 2024

Contributed by Lukas

When I think of a quintessentially Torontonian food experience, I tend to think of The Depanneur. Founded in 2011, The Depanneur was a tiny old corner...

121: Exploring the Relationship between Fish Hacks, Porgy, and Black Maritime Culture with Dr. Jayson M. Porter

27 Feb 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Anytime I get to talk about water and seafood on this show feels like a really special week for me, as I have spent most of my life thinking about how...

120: Making Sense of Misunderstood Vegetables through Humour and Celebration with Becky Selengut

20 Feb 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Often when we make our grocery runs, time and money are on our mind – which can quickly lead to following a stringent list of household classics and...

119: Destigmatizing Harm Reduction, Mental Health, and Drug Use in Alberta with Danielle English

13 Feb 2024

Contributed by Lukas

We've spoken a bit this season about the drug poisoning crisis and how breweries can work to support their neighbours using substances, but with this ...

118: Pink Gold - Women, Shrimp, and Work in Mexico with Dr. María L. Cruz Torres

06 Feb 2024

Contributed by Lukas

The idea of fish industry tends to feel big, vague, and hyper-masculine – it's easy to think of tales of fisherman and ideals of masculinity. But as...

117: Unpacking Anti-Fatness in Health and Nutrition for Body Liberation with Patrilie Hernandez of Embody Lib

30 Jan 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Health, nutrition, and food are spaces that can be fraught with harmful and perpetual misconceptions of the body, to the point where many people of th...

116: How Ozempic and Stomach Paralysis Impact Relationships with Food with Emily Wright

23 Jan 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Across social media and TV advertisements, drugs like Ozempic and Wegovy have risen in recent years and are quickly associated with weight loss and ce...

115: Unboxing the History of TV Dinners with Jeff Swystun

16 Jan 2024

Contributed by Lukas

When you think about the concept of a TV dinner, there is a wash of nostalgia that can takeover how you remember the tastes and functions of the dinne...

114: Honouring Maternal Ancestries through Cooking and Restaurant Development with Ruben Rodriguez of Nai Restaurant Groups

09 Jan 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Alright everyone, this is the first episode back after the holiday break, so I hope that this finds you rested, stuffed, and balancing all the new yea...

113: How UN Organizations Shape the Rules of World Trade for Food Security with Dr. Matias Margulis

05 Dec 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Before we jump into today's show, I wanted to give listeners a heads up that today is the last AnthroDish episode for 2023, but we will be returning w...

112: Dinner on Mars - How Technologies that Could Feed the Red Planet Can Transform Agriculture on Earth

28 Nov 2023

Contributed by Lukas

What happens when two food scientists get bored in a pandemic? It turns out, they start to brainstorm how they would feed a colony of humans on Mars. ...

111: Reframing Cookbooks, and Salad as Comfort Food with Nat and Bec Davey of Reframeables

21 Nov 2023

Contributed by Lukas

When you think about comfort food, what types of meals or dishes come to mind – is it mashed potatoes and gravy, the best of your grandmother's kitc...

110: Creating Safer Community for Breweries and Vulnerable Neighbours with Ren Navarro of B.Diversity

14 Nov 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Alcohol has been navigating a new social landscape in America and Canada since COVID hit. While there were signs that alcohol consumption was rising w...

109: Campus Food System Alternatives as Organizing Tools with Dr. Michael Classens

07 Nov 2023

Contributed by Lukas

When we think about food security and food systems, it can easily be imagined as a large national or state or provincial level experience. Yet many yo...

108: Understanding Community through Fermentation with Dr. Julia Skinner

31 Oct 2023

Contributed by Lukas

In 2023, we're facing increased food prices, tech-heavy innovations around lab grown foods for climate change, and heavily industrialized and packaged...

107: Unpacking Wellness through Personalized Nutrition & Genetic Diets with Dr. Tina Sikka

24 Oct 2023

Contributed by Lukas

With increasingly wearable and seamless tech experiences, there is a growing ability for us to monitor almost every phase of our day: what we eat, h...

106: Rethinking Cowboy Food through the Unofficial Yellowstone Cookbook with Jackie Alpers

17 Oct 2023

Contributed by Lukas

Food on popular television shows can be a storytelling mechanism, particularly in terms of building a sense of place and history. While the television...

105: Weaving Ancient Korean Cookbooks with Seasonal Local Food with Ji Hye Kim

10 Oct 2023

Contributed by Lukas

When we think about "authentic" food experiences – what are we really explicitly looking for? Oftentimes the idea of authenticity can be exoticized ...

104: Season 8, Take 2 Launch [Solo Episode]

03 Oct 2023

Contributed by Lukas

We're going to try launching season 8... again. In this solo episode, I go into more detail about a burnout I experienced last year, how I got in my h...

103: How Food Styling Creates Stories with Alyssa Noui of Supping Good

23 Nov 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Whenever I watch a baking show, or a movie that has a really delicious looking food scene, I'm always blown away by the type of story that you can tel...

102: Season 8 Launch! [Solo Episode]

15 Nov 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Welcome to Season 8! It has been far too long and I am really excited to be back behind the old mic bringing you all new interviews this season. I am ...

101: Upcycling Imperfect Produce into Healthy Eats with Monique Chan of Bruized

15 Mar 2022

Contributed by Lukas

We started off this season looking at just how much Canadians wasted food, and how food systems management can be used to tackle this from a research ...

100: Sarah in the Hot Seat with Guest Host Sydney Gautreau

08 Mar 2022

Contributed by Lukas

I'm someone who normally doesn't stop to take a breath and appreciate everything I've done, but I wanted to take a moment this week to celebrate Anthr...

99: Opening TWO Vietnamese Restaurants in Small Town Ontario During a Pandemic with Susan Tung of Hanoi House

01 Mar 2022

Contributed by Lukas

This week's episode feels particularly special and close to home for me – because it kinda is! This marks my first episode getting to connect with s...

98: Reducing Cultural Food Insecurity through Grocery Delivery with Boyede Sobitan of OjaExpress

22 Feb 2022

Contributed by Lukas

The idea of food security has been around for quite some time, but never manages to grasp the full complexity and nuances of what it means to secure f...

97: How Do We Talk About Bodies and Diet Culture Online? with Ary Maharaj of NEDIC

15 Feb 2022

Contributed by Lukas

With every new year, we get absolutely bombarded by diet ads, fitness discounts, gym memberships (even if gyms are closed during lockdowns), and const...

96: Why Do Millennials and Gen Z Care So Much About Food? with Eve Turow-Paul

08 Feb 2022

Contributed by Lukas

By now, we've all heard the jokes about how millennials can't afford to buy homes because we spend all our money on avocado toast, and have felt the g...

95: Post-COVID Taste Loss with Rebecca Ma

14 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

When we think about COVID, we usually think about the short term health effects and terrifying stories from the ICU. However, there's a lot to learn a...

94: Lookout - Food Strategies in a Fire Tower with Trina Moyles

07 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Today's episode marks a big first for me! This is the first time I've been able to have a guest return for a second episode, which I'm so thrilled abo...

93: How Do Canadians Plan for Better Food Systems? with Dr. Tammara Soma

16 Nov 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Here at AnthroDish, a lot of the focus in my conversations with people is around the eating behaviours of communities, or what food preparations say a...

92: Season 7 Launch! (Solo Episode)

01 Nov 2021

Contributed by Lukas

It took a while, but I'm back for the 7th season of AnthroDish! Starting off as usual with a solo episode, giving some quick updates about what's been...

91: Fast, Easy, Cheap Vegan - Making Veganism More Accessible with Sam Turnbull

31 Mar 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Something we've been focusing on this season is unpacking what makes food accessible or inaccessible – be it money, gender, race, or their intersect...

90: How Has Purity Culture Shaped Eating Disorder Experiences? with Rebecca Wolfe

09 Mar 2021

Contributed by Lukas

If you grew up in the early 2000s, you might remember the American push for True Love Waits, abstinence only-sex education, and purity rings being spo...

89: Exploring the Transformational Power of Baking and Makeup with Jerrod Blandino

02 Mar 2021

Contributed by Lukas

If there's one thing a lot of us have been doing since the start of COVID last spring, it's returning to our kitchens – sometimes to help us grieve,...

88: Re-Imagining Colonial Binaries in the Relationship Between Sikhi and Alcohol Consumption with Manvinder Gill

23 Feb 2021

Contributed by Lukas

What role does religion play in cultural attitudes and practices towards drinking alcohol? Is it possible to look at one element without accounting fo...

87: Are Local Food Movements Elitist? with Paul O. Mims

09 Feb 2021

Contributed by Lukas

It's been a while since I've put out an episode, so I am extra excited to get these episodes rolling out again. These are a continuation of season 6 t...

86: Seed Keeping and Land Sovereignty with Tiffany Traverse of 4th Sister Farm

08 Dec 2020

Contributed by Lukas

Today's interview is really special for me to share with you all, because my guest is someone I've formed a really wonderful friendship with through t...

85: How Food "Authenticity" Commodifies Identities with Jenny Dorsey

01 Dec 2020

Contributed by Lukas

We've seen food media really start to crack when grappling this summer with who can cook what, and for who. The power that recipe production and food ...

84: Anti-Racism in Dietetic Practice & Training with Gurneet Kaur Dhami

24 Nov 2020

Contributed by Lukas

We've talked on the show before about how there are a lot of really white-centric connotations around the idea of "Canadian" food – a lot of people ...

83: Diners, Dudes, & Diets with Dr. Emily Contois

16 Nov 2020

Contributed by Lukas

The phrase "dude food" likely brings to mind a range of very specific images: burgers stacked impossibly high with an assortment of toppings that were...

82: How to Start a Feminist Restaurant with Dr. Alex Ketchum

09 Nov 2020

Contributed by Lukas

With much attention finally being paid to sexual harassment and labour issues within the restaurant industries, it's easy to view restaurant and food ...

81: Changing Your Mind About Veggies, One Soup at a Time with Carolyn Davenport-Moncel

27 Oct 2020

Contributed by Lukas

Today is our first real episode of the 6th season! Thank you all for joining me here today, it really means the world to share these conversations wit...

80: Season 6 Launch [Solo Episode]

20 Oct 2020

Contributed by Lukas

This episode kicks off the brand new 6th season for AnthroDish! Tune in to hear some reflections from Sarah on where the show is going, and tackling s...

79: Bringing Holistic Nutrition to Pancakes with Elizabeth Stein of Purely Elizabeth

19 May 2020

Contributed by Lukas

Have you ever heard about health foods or superfoods, and been curious to try them out, but not really sure how to go about it? My guest this week, El...

78: The Search for the Red Herring - Exploring the 18th Century Swedish Herring Smokehouses with Anton Larsson

08 May 2020

Contributed by Lukas

Today we're taking a step back in time and exploring some interesting food trends from the past. Every so often, there is a massive migration period f...

77: Changing the Way People Eat PB&J with Jeff Mahin of Split Nutrition

29 Apr 2020

Contributed by Lukas

When most of us think about peanut butter and jelly, we're immediately filled with memories of childhood lunches. And while it's certainly a nostalgic...

76: Cosmos to Kitchen - Embracing Spirituality through Mixed Media Food Projects with Simone Johnson

22 Apr 2020

Contributed by Lukas

When the pandemic started, I put out a call to anyone who had their conference or public talk or event cancelled, to see if they wanted to share some ...

75: How Genetic Diets and Health Tech Turn Food into Surveillance Tools with Dr. Tina Sikka

14 Apr 2020

Contributed by Lukas

We're living in a very surreal and increasingly digital world these days, and I don't know about you all, but I'm finding myself taking a step back ea...

74: Challah Dolly! Learning to Bake and Building Community During the Pandemic with Dolly Meckler

06 Apr 2020

Contributed by Lukas

How many of you have started trying your hand at baking bread since the start of the pandemic? With our lives totally upheaved and our work-related id...