Chapter 1: What is discussed at the start of this section?
Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Lily Padman. Hi. Do you want to tell people about the housewarming card that Lincoln got you? Of course I do. She just brought it up on our bike ride and I did think it was sweet. Yes, it was the sweetest thing. She got me a card. She had it for like a year, which is so sweet. And she was holding it.
The card itself says something like, congrats on your new pad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it has a frog on a lily pad. And she added the lily. She added lily before pad. Yeah, yeah. And it's very cute. And she was explaining it to me on the bike ride. She's like, you know, because her middle name is Lily. I'm like, uh-huh, I know. I say her name several times a week, Lily. You do indeed.
And then Padman is like pads or lily pads. Yeah, she also added man to the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very cute. Very, very sweet girl. Today we have returning doppelganger. It's doppelganger month. Zach Braff is an actor and a filmmaker. Scrubs, Garden State, A Good Person, Chicken Little, Wish I Was Here, and the reboot of Scrubs, which is a good show. It's a great show. It's a great show.
Monica's back. I'm back in. Having nostalgic feelings. It is on Wednesday nights on ABC and then airs on Hulu. Please enjoy Zach Braff. This episode of Armchair Expert is presented by Apple TV, the new U.S. home of Formula One. Starting March 7th, you can watch complete all access live coverage of every Grand Prix, including playoffs. practice, qualifying, and sprints all in one place.
Watch every race live only on Apple TV. How are you? I had a hunch you would wear a sweater, so I did too. Good to see you. I haven't seen you guys since. Oh, we can talk about it. I don't want to waste it. But you didn't have a hedge when I was here last. Oh, God, no. We didn't have anything. It was April of 2018, which is crazy.
Because don't you feel like we interviewed him much deeper into the show? I think I've only been here once. And we were joking about how it was smart of you to put down the hedges early. Because it was going to be a while. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was a while. I'll bet. You were like, I had the idea. that we would just start the hedges right at the top. And save, you know, $700.
That's another thing. I could have gotten the 10 gallons, the 15, or the 30 gallons. I remember you saying that. You were like, you know what? I'm going to get the smaller ones. ROI. Wow, April, that means two months in. Wait, what year was it? 2018, which is when we started. That's when we started. Which means it was only three months in. Wow.
But I think I've registered that whole thing as like, you were going off to do a TV show about podcasting. That's what you were promoting. Was I promoting that? Yes. So the fact that there was already a show being made about podcasting. But it was right at the top of things. It was based on startup.
There was a podcast about a guy who was starting up a business and the business happened to be podcasts. Yes. It's based on a real story. It's the story of Gimlet or one of those. Exactly. Right? Yeah. I can't believe I just remembered. It's a very good memory. Podcasting was sort of new. Yeah. But you were at the forefront. I mean, Marc Maron was before you, right? And Chris Hardwick.
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Chapter 2: What was the emotional impact of returning to Scrubs?
Fuck. It is also incredibly likely he has conflated you and I into one person. He also loves Garden States and Scrubs, and he just happened to land on Chips as most recent. I mean, truly. Maybe. I don't know. He might think we're the same person. I never got that far. What happened was... I think he had a few too, in fairness. Sure. Well, everyone's at a nightclub in Vegas.
Yeah, it's in the middle of the night in Vegas. And he's lovely and I love him still. I love you still. I'm sure he watches your podcast. He's your biggest fan in the world. So anyway. Well, Fassbender, my goodness, I'm flattered. So he goes, tips. And then Donald, being like my wife wing man, is like, no, man, this is Zach Braff. No, no, no. I would have just walked away.
I would have been like, oh, thank you. Chips is the best. But his face dropped, as embarrassing as it was. And then he starts to kind of back away like, oh, man, you guys had the best night. And Donald goes, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You come back here like a proud wife. This is Zach Braff. Do you not know? You've never seen Garden State? No. But Donald starts listing my credits.
Like you've never seen a good person and you've never seen the last kiss and scrubs and all these things. Full IMDB resume. And he's just nodding and nodding. And then I'm like, Donald, let's set him free, please. And he backed away and that was it. But I didn't even make it out of the club. I was so embarrassed. I kind of just had a moment and I texted Dax.
I was like, it is important for you to know how much Michael Fassbender loves chips. Wow. That's... Such a good story. Oh, my God. But it's the worst, though, when it's like your heart. I mean, yes, because we both would love his approval. Of course. Oh, my God. It's one thing when it's someone on the street. Of course, we look alike. I go, oh, thank you. No, no, no. That's Zach Shepard.
I'm Zach Braff. And that happens all the time in New York. I'm walking around. Yeah. This was like an actor. I really would love to want to work with him.
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Chapter 3: How does Zach Braff navigate directing seasoned actors?
Absolutely. I'm rattled right now because I don't know any of those details. But why don't you make a chip sequel with Michael Fassbender? Still a Michael, but a Fassbender. Yeah. Oh, my God. That's funny. That's heartbreaking. I can't believe Donald corrected him. That's an interesting choice. I wouldn't have gone that far. That's a really good friend. I never do it.
And if I ever do it, I'm always so kind. Oh, no, you're thinking of Zach's. We look alike. I'm Zach. I do that little uncomfortable dance. But Donald was like, you get back here, Mr. Fassbender. You're going to be educated. In the DJ booth. You know what sucks? It's like you feel embarrassed in that moment and you shouldn't feel embarrassed. He should feel embarrassed because he made the mistake.
No one should feel embarrassed. We do look alike. It's cringe because you know what it is? It's solely ego. This man I love, your ego is, I wanted this person to like me and they don't know who I am. For me, the embarrassment would have been, I'm not embarrassed I get mistaken for you. I'm flattered by it. Yeah, you're handsome as hell.
You're incredibly cute and you're talented and you've had a great career. I'm not like, don't confuse me with him. I once got into an Uber. I had a girlfriend at the time and we got into an Uber and the guy, he assumed that she was Kristen. Oh, wow. And love your pot. Was it Florence? I don't think it was Florence because my brain would have been like, oh, if he loves both of us.
This person wasn't a famous person. Okay, okay. So I remember when he said, I love both your stuff. The Carvana commercials. I knew that it wasn't about this particular gal. I love your Carvana commercials. And you're like, no, T-Mobile. This is where I would have been embarrassed. That same thing happens, right? Fassbender says, I love you. I want to work with you.
And then he says, I'm so excited. I heard they're relaunching Scrubs. Right. What would happen for me is I would have been ashamed that I got excited and it wasn't for me. That's what it would be. That's what I feel. If I'm being fully honest. Yeah, right. I've been like, oh, I feel so good. Now I don't. I can metacognition my way into knowing that I shouldn't have any of those emotions.
I would like to get over it because it's so silly. I had this at the Netflix party after the Golden Globes. Did you get mistaken for somebody? Well, sort of. OK, I don't know if I should say who it is because she's so nice. But Claire Danes, who we did interview. So this is where things get very tricky. I don't. No, but she was like, hi. I was like walking by and she was like, hi.
She stopped me to say hi. Okay, so yeah, just hold on. So I said, hi. Oh, it's so good to see you. I can't believe you remember me. I said that because I was like, we interviewed her so long ago. Yeah, yeah. And I honestly was like just very impressed. I was like, good for you for remembering me. And then she was like, yeah, of course. I just talked to blah, blah, blah. I was like, oh, no.
I have no idea who you're talking about now. But you don't think it was like Mindy or do you think it was an Indian confusion? I mean, I assume whoever she's thinking about is probably Indian. I don't know who. But I just said, oh, yeah, yeah. It was really good to see you. I'm just heading to the bar. She's like, great. Have a good night. I've been on the other side of it myself. Of course.
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Chapter 4: What personal reflections does Zach share about his appearance and confidence?
Exactly. After that, you're starting to exceed your crying moments. That's right. If you're talking about a daughter, anyone who's got a daughter's story or it's a daughter telling me about how she feels about her dad, that's a guess. I'm done. I have two little girls and it's all I think about. It's just a fast pass to me.
I've cried from the horrible things that have happened, but I don't in my daily life cry much. But I love the feeling, whether it's a play, if it's a TV show, if it's a movie, where I feel it coming. It's wonderful. Okay, I have some now personal questions. What is your relationship with your looks? I don't want to compare it to where mine have evolved.
When I was younger, there was no one calling me hot. And I was very insecure about how I was going to make it in Hollywood because I would go on these auditions and I would sit in the waiting room and I would look at all of these beautiful men who were hot and they were reading for the part. And I was like, I'm not going to get this part. I don't look like that. And that made me very insecure.
i think there's two sides of that coin i had that experience and then also i'd be at the commercial audition for arby's and i was like i don't look character enough either i'm not goofy enough looking to get all these funny goofy roles and i'm not handsome enough i feel like i'm just caught in this purgatory doldrums of i'm not goofy looking and i'm not attractive i felt the same way right out of school i got well even before school i got cast
as Woody Allen and Diane Keaton's son in Manhattan Murder Mystery. Even though it was a small part, I knew I'd beaten everyone in town out for it because who wouldn't have wanted that part? So I got a little bit of confidence at 18. Then I went to school and learned filmmaking and studied acting and I got out of... School.
And the first thing I got was a very high profile production of Macbeth in New York, starring Alec Baldwin, Angela Bassett, Liev Schreiber, Michael C. Hall. George C. Wolfe directed it. Huge theater director. I was the young guy who played two different young roles. And so that kind of gave me like a, whoa, I just got a really big part for a young guy created at college.
So I did start to have a little bit of confidence that I could act. But when I came out here and I saw how pretty everybody was, I was concerned that I wasn't going to book TV. And I didn't really, I would never make it very far. Never for a love interest kind of thing. I just wasn't getting that. It was frustrating.
When I was waiting tables out here in 99, I was thinking like, gosh, I don't know. Maybe I should have stayed in New York.
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Chapter 5: How does Zach describe his relationship with alcohol and its impact on his life?
The cool indies were at that point coming out of New York. In theater, there's not that same bar. No, a theater is going to choose the best actor. That's right. Yeah, yeah. It's a meritocracy. And then Scrubs happened, which is though Bill knew me and studied me and wrote a part for me. It was so tailor made for me.
And then, of course, it goes without saying that Bill and I ended up having the exact same sense of humor. That's what gave me my big break. But the first thought I had was, oh, this is going to help me get my movie Garden State made because no one was going to fucking cast me in Garden State if I hadn't written it. Yes, yes.
So I knew maybe you had felt the same way that I'm going to have to create stuff for myself. Yes. So my journey is like, hated how I looked, was bummed. I've gotten older and older and older. I like how I look now, especially at 51. And then even crazier, I wonder if you're having this experience.
Without naming names, there was a whole legion of our peers that objectively, for sure, in our 30s and 40s, I'm like, that guy is so much better looking than me. It's insane. A bunch of those dudes. And now because of this war of attrition and the longevity, a lot of these guys I'm looking around, I'm like, I don't think that anymore. That's my journey with it.
Some of my peers have fallen off and it's crazy to know when you should wish for what. I don't know that I feel that. I do see people getting plastic surgery, which I think is crazy. The other thing I want to talk about is you and I clearly haven't had facelifts. But I want to know, do you think about it? I tell you, before I've seen a bunch go awry, I might have.
But I do this, you know, we both have this thing down to this. They're called festoons. Oh, we know. He knows all about festoons. And it's genetic. So I, of course, in the mirror sometimes on scrubs and I'm like in the makeup trailer going like, can you do this? And they're like, no, we can't do that. That's plastic surgery. Awesome. Don't do that. You looked crazy. That did not look good.
My point is, of course, it had crossed my mind being vain and insecurity, but I've seen enough people go awry that I'm not going anywhere near it. Well, yeah, that's what I want to talk about.
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Chapter 6: What insights does Zach provide about navigating relationships at 50?
So, A, I have zero judgment if someone does it. I don't give a fuck if anyone gets a face up. Yeah, yeah, that's great. Cuts me like being on the show in five years. I know. Remember when I said... Two, I go to the dentist, I whiten my teeth. There's a lot of things I do and I work out like crazy because I want my body to look a certain way. Like I'm vain.
I just wonder if you're caught in this cycle of thought. Most of the time, I'd say a good 80% of the time, I'm like... This is actually kind of cool. I'm going to be one of the few people that didn't have a facelift and I'm going to look weirdly authentic. And I think that's going to have some weird value. Like I think I'm choosing the right path. 20% of the time I'm like, this is crazy.
Why wouldn't I? I have the money and I am vain. I also. But aren't you worried? To me, the fact that it can go awry. Like, I never got LASIK because I don't know what minuscule percentage of cases of LASIK go awry, but I never got LASIK. It's like my eyes are my whole life. And that might be totally neurotic and crazy, but I feel like, oh my gosh, your face.
And also, if you and I all of a sudden were... We had tiny button noses. If we had little cute noses and a fucking pronounced chin and a jawline, wouldn't people be like, what the fuck did you do? Yes, they would. And we had no festoons. Don't you think, I mean, you say this all the time, like what's attractive about people is the differences.
Chapter 7: What nostalgic moments does Zach recall about his experiences in the entertainment industry?
It's not for some people, obviously it is, but it's like the classic looking cookie cutter is not what's interesting. And everyone's starting to meld into one look. I think it helps us that we're the age we are because I'm playing a grizzled cop, a dad. The parts are different. You're not trying to be the leading man who gets the girl. I was never competing for those roles, really.
I did one or two of those, but I was never going to be the Glenn Powell of the moment.
yeah okay now i'm going to put you on the spot and this is to answer my own curiosity because i'm so interested in all the parallels but when you directed a good person you had reached out to me a couple times about like aa yeah and i don't know if what i said was helpful or not very helpful thank you you were the first person i reached out to because i started writing this movie about recovery as i was just brainstorming and getting the story right i didn't want to go down any wrong paths and you helped me right off the bat clear up some questions i had
my main complaint about when i see it in movies is everything's so heavy and so important and when someone's sharing it's like they're about to die and i'm like everyone has the biggest sense of humor about all the wreckage they've had that is not the vibe ever yeah even when it's tragic that's just not our vibe but at any rate
I have come to learn that a good person was really you kind of processing through this movie, both your sister, one of your best friends who was living with you during COVID, who died of COVID, which is insane at 41. He's got to be one of the very few young people that went down like that. And although those aren't directly the storylines, they're you dealing with that.
Yeah, I wrote A Good Person during COVID. My sister died of an aneurysm. My best friend was living in my guest house, and he got COVID at 41. In March, at the very beginning. Right at the beginning. Yeah. His wife, Amanda Klutz, is a known influencer and actress and performer, and she...
was very public about it because she wanted to share with people that this could happen to a 41 year old and he never came out of the hospital again it was very early on and they didn't know a lot of things i can't help but think if it had been today it would have been a very different outcome yeah and your dad also my father died of cancer my manager i don't know if you ever knew chris uvain did you ever know oh yeah i knew he uh he died by suicide he took his own life so all of this happened i didn't know what to do with it at all
When you start to write something, I don't know if you feel this way. I don't always know what it's going to be about. Right. You just start to say, this character's on my mind. This scene's on my mind. This image is on my mind. And so what came out was a good person. It ended up being a story about grief. There is recovery as a character in the story, but it's really about grief.
So the thing I've been curious about you for 25 years is what's your relationship with alcohol and drugs? Or was there ever dicey periods? That's a good question. No one's ever asked me that. Maybe Rich Roll, who actually helped me a lot. I don't know if you're friends with Rich. I'm not. I keep hearing his name and I've never watched the show. I watched it because you were on it. Oh my God.
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