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Chapter 1: What are the warning signs of youth crime discussed in this episode?
Warning, this is a true crime segment and not suitable for children. It contains references to sexual violence and suicide, which some listeners may find distressing. If you need support, you are not alone. Contact Lifeline on 13 11 14 or visit lifeline.org.au for 24-hour support. We're erupted. It's a voice that will send shivers down your spine. Stand off with police. Wanted fugitive.
Stabbed 19 times. The suspect lured the victim into the woods.
Biggest legal dramas in Hollywood. Today is a major win to show what the system can do.
This is true crime tonight.
This is True Crime Tonight. I'm your host, Michelle Laurie, and I'm here with my producers, Matthew Tankett and Ruby Bartzis. Say hello, guys. Hello. There we go. They're really here. And every Sunday night from six till seven, they'll be here and we'll bring you our true crime book and documentary recommendations.
We'll chat with you, our listeners, and we'll interview some of the biggest faces and most interesting people in true crime. This is a true crime show. Don't forget that. I keep saying it, but please don't let your kids listen. Coming up later this hour, we'll talk to Dr Jenny Haynes about the documentary on her life called We Are Jenny. I'm sure you remember Jenny.
She's the lady who went to court to testify against her father, but it was her and her over 2,000 personalities. That's coming up later in the show. But up next, we'll hear from a listener. Hello, my name is Talia.
I'm a long-term listener to your podcast. I live in Newcastle, New South Wales. Anyway, unfortunately, about 18 months ago, my friends and I were witness to night crime on a night out, which then led to the murder. Male, lots of fighting. And we saw all the perpetrators and we had to go in for interviews and all those things. And it was like a really awful scar to saw.
But then following on from that, like knife crime in Australia and also services for victims. Like I was... obviously entitled to victim support through the government. And to be quite frank, it was rubbish. Then I had to pay out of pocket to go see my psychologist and go through EDMR and those things to support my own mental health and journey back into the world.
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Chapter 2: What was the verdict in the Michael Jackson trial?
In the scheme of things, that is such a low-level crime to experience, just people running through an IGA and taking stuff.
Oh, my God, that's so scary.
That freaks me out. Like, it was really, really scary. And it's good to remember, we talk about that all the time with, like, people who rob banks back in the day. Yes, that's right. About that sounding like a bit of, like, a larrikin.
Yeah, or they, like, oh, the gun was never even loaded. Like, yeah, well, just because you knew you weren't going to kill anyone doesn't mean all those people that you were screaming at to get on the floor, you'll kill them and rah, rah, rah. They don't know that. But I had to stop intervening.
My kids made me stop because I'm such a Karen around the neighbourhood and I think we all, all us mums, it's a small neighbourhood, all of our kids, you kind of know every kid.
Yeah.
And so when there's a drama going on, we'll... I probably would have said, hey, you kids. That's probably what I would have said. Like, I know your mum kind of attitude, but that doesn't mean I might not have got stabbed in the moment. So I think you did the smart thing.
I think, unfortunately, not doing anything, even though this poor lady's screaming for help, is probably the smartest way out of it.
That's the general idea, I think, right? Especially if a store's getting robbed, it's like you don't need to put your life on the line for that. It's not worth it. The only time I feel like you'd need to intervene is if someone's actually getting attacked. And I don't know.
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Chapter 3: How does Dr. Jenny Haynes describe her experience with dissociative identity disorder?
And it was very successful.
Yes, it was.
Very successful.
Oh, Lord. Well, there's no kids listening to this. We know that because I keep saying don't let them. But if you happen to be a kid listening, can you please pull your head in? Yeah.
And thank you, Talia, for sending in that speak pipe. A speak pipe, if you don't know it, is essentially just sending us a, it's like a voicemail recording. You can find a link to do so at our podcast, Australian True Crime, or on our social media as well.
This is True Crime Tonight with Michelle Laurie.
Across Australia, this is True Crime Tonight with Michelle Laurie, Ruby Bartzis and me, Matthew Tankard. Coming up, we've got an interview with Dr Jenny Haynes about her new documentary, We Are Jenny. But first, we're doing a true crime documentary recommendation. Michelle, what have we got this week?
I sent you kids some homework and myself some homework as well for the weekend, which was to go and have a look at the new Netflix documentary's three parts, The Trial of Michael Jackson. Yep. Now, already late last week, I was reading some stuff online that's like, oh, God, this changed my auntie's mind about the whole case. And like a lot of excitement, a lot of buzz online.
Could not wait to carve out the time for myself to watch it. I found it so boring. I fell asleep twice trying to watch this thing. Yeah. Matthew? Yeah.
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Chapter 4: What is the significance of Dr. Haynes' court testimony?
And the little boy gave an interview that was gross. He was saying things like, yeah, Michael said to me, if you really love me, you'll sleep in my bed. So I was like, oh man, okay.
And they also said that in that part, I think it was Michael Jackson's biographer said he was looking at that and you can see, you can kind of clock Michael Jackson realising, oh, this is a really bad idea. That sounds so bad.
That sounds really bad. And the kid is saying, I didn't want to. He's like, and I thought, oh, man, okay.
And they kind of say that documentary is what led people to really change their opinion on him, right? But do you remember in that era, was he already known as like Wacko Jacko before then?
Yeah. Before any of the childhood allegations, but he created the Wacko Jacko. He loved it. He was the one who got the monkey bubbles. He would release all these stories like he sleeps in a hyperbaric chamber at night and all these crazy stories. Is that real? No. Okay.
And that's what people who were around him will say, oh, he created all of the Wacko Jacko stuff, but then it came back to bite him because then people went, hang on, is he wacko enough to be a sex offender? Yeah. Maybe he is, you know. So, yeah, it came back to bite him. I found the documentary really dull, so I can't recommend it to you.
I think if you've followed this case like I have, you've seen it all before. It's good if you don't, if you've never seen or read or heard anything about the accusations against Michael Jackson, maybe it's worth watching.
You know, the thing that I did get out of the one episode that I saw was actually seeing all of the rooms, you know, all that like archival footage of like the rooms in his house. Yeah. And I I was just thinking this is exactly what you would make like a Hollywood villain child predator's house look like.
What about all the alarms?
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Chapter 5: How does Dr. Haynes explain the creation of her alter personalities?
If you found out your neighbour or a guy you worked with or someone like that was a sex offender, you wouldn't say, well, he can't be because he never did it in front of me. Of course he didn't do it in front of you. Right. Yeah. So it's, I just don't get the determination of some people to refuse the evidence.
And all of these people telling terrible stories, have lost their income, have lost their livelihoods. You know, I just don't get it.
This is True Crime Tonight with Michelle Laurie.
This is True Crime Tonight, and joining us tonight to talk about the new documentary streaming on SBS called We Are Jenny is Dr Jenny Haynes. In 2019, Dr Jenny Haynes gave evidence in court against her father, who was charged with various sex crimes committed against Jenny throughout her childhood.
In the history-making trial, Dr Jenny was the first person in the world allowed to present evidence on the stand from several of her personalities. Dr Jenny lives with a condition known as dissociative identity disorder or multiple personality disorder. She has over 2,000 personalities whom she refers to as alters.
When you popped up on the screen, like who's in the, you know, waiting to come into the call, it was Symphony. That's right, yes. Is that your most common alter or is that?
Yeah. Yeah, she's the one that created all of us. So it's us honoring the little girl that made everybody else. For the lived experience of having DID, my experience is we have a doorway and whoever is sitting in the doorway is in the body. Okay. Nice and simple. And it's a doorway. You just sit down and there you go. However...
When somebody wants to come along, you just get moved ever so slightly sideways. And then they sit down and then they're in the body. When you look at the diagnosis of MPD, MPD is considered a mental illness. We are dysfunctional, apparently, but we're not. We are small children surviving the worst the world has to offer in the only way we can.
I mean, most of the trauma that results in NPD or DID occurs when we are pre-verbal. So we don't know that we're making alter personalities. We just have a need and someone rocks up to fill that need. And it just so happens you've created an alter personality. 2,682 times.
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Chapter 6: What impact did childhood trauma have on Dr. Haynes and her alters?
So we tried to use euphemisms. And so what he told her was that she had to help him. So that's his word, his terminology. His word, yes. Okay, I see. Okay, I think that's end trigger warning. Thank you. Thank you, Boris. In many ways, I guess I'm the one that he... I think is the current term for it. I'm the one that he harmed every day for 14 years.
And my alters are people that came and did everything else. So they went to school, they read books, they played, they did the things that I didn't have that time or energy to do.
Yeah, absolutely. So symphony... In a way, you know, you're so young, but you're a leader, aren't you? Yeah. Yeah. Is there a fundamental Jenny? Is there one person who's Jenny and then all these others as well? Or is Jenny an amalgam? There's a fundamental person, Symphony, and then there's the rest of us.
Right. Wow. Okay. There is nobody inside that is a Jenny. Jenny is the label. Like you go shopping and you need to buy a coat. You go and you buy a coat. We, Jenny is like the coat. Okay. And we all wear Jenny, but the actual person that is the most important person, the one that we all radiate around is Symphony. So there is an essential Symphony. Yeah. If after people have watched Symphony,
We are Jenny. They come away with an understanding that a person who has multiple personality disorder, dissociative identity disorder, we are not crazy. We are victims of crime. My job here is done because if people start looking at people with DID as victims of crime, then we can actually help how people are treated because we're not oddities. We're not bizarre and we're not mentally ill.
We are people. humans who have experienced the worst kinds of trauma, the worst kinds of abuse at the hands of people who were supposed to protect us. And if I can get everybody to understand that, then the world is a different place.
Thank you to our guest, Dr Jenny Haynes. If you would like to listen to the full interview with them, you can check out the conversation in full on our podcast, Australian True Crime, available on the iHeart app or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to True Crime Tonight. You can join us every Sunday from 6 till 7pm. See you next week.
This is True Crime Tonight with Michelle Laurie.
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