Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts, radio, news. Let's get more on President Trump's push for Greenland. Joining us now is Nicholas Burns, a former U.S. ambassador to NATO. He's also a former U.S. ambassador to China and a professor at the Harvard Kennedy School. And Nicholas, there is no one else we'd want to talk with you about this subject.
Chapter 2: What prompted President Trump's interest in purchasing Greenland?
Because of your vast amount of experience with NATO specifically, after this happened, after the latest pronouncements from the president, the Danish prime minister said that an attack on Greenland would spell the end of the NATO alliance. Just how under tension And how at risk is this alliance at the moment?
Well, certainly an attack by the United States against Denmark over Greenland would end NATO as we know it. It's been unthinkable since NATO was created in 1949 that the United States or any other NATO country would attack a fellow member. We've been busy trying to of course, contains Soviet power and now President Putin's power in Europe. That's the focal point of NATO.
And to get back to what was said, Secretary Rubio said when he was asked yesterday in the context of Greenland, is force on the table? And he said, well, he didn't point to force, but he said the president reserves the right to use force if necessary. Caroline Leavitt, the president's spokesperson, said the evening before, force was on the table on Greenland.
Now, I actually agree with your correspondent. I think the probability of an American attack on Greenland is not high. But the fact that the president and the secretary of state and the spokesperson have all said it is on the table, you can imagine how that's gone down in Denmark and in Europe. And so I think the critical point is this.
The United States does not need to invade Greenland or to even seek to purchase Greenland from Denmark to get what President Trump has said he wants to have.
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Chapter 3: How does Nicholas Burns view the implications for NATO?
The Danish prime minister has said throughout this year that she welcomes a further, bigger American military presence on Greenland. They welcome the Danes' American private investment or government investment in rare earth mining and mining for other critical materials. So we can get what we want without these really colossal threats, colossally ignorant threats against a NATO ally.
We just have to treat that ally respectfully. And I think in that respect, it is positive that Secretary Rubio is going to meet the Danish foreign minister next week in Washington. Much better for them to discuss this privately than this continued war of words started by the administration in Washington.
Professor, we are also hearing, and we reported yesterday, that Danish and Greenlandic officials will be meeting with Secretary Rubio next week as well. I am wondering, what do you think, I mean, with your vast experience in this, this meeting, is this the kind of thing that gives comfort to NATO officials? Is this the kind of thing that gives comfort to the markets?
Or is it potential for more chaos ahead? I just can't imagine a decision by the President of the United States to invade Greenland and to, in essence, cause an active war against a NATO ally. So I do think that's low probability.
Chapter 4: What risks does an attack on Greenland pose to NATO's existence?
And the thing here is that Greenland is strategically important. If you think about Greenland's geographic position vis-a-vis the Russian Federation and where much of the Russian military assets are, which is in the western part, in Murmansk and other places of the Russian Federation. Think about China's ambitions as they call themselves a near Arctic power.
The administration is right, as President Biden said as well, that Greenland is very important strategically. We're going to be much better positioned to get what we want and to build up American military power in Greenland if we work through our ally Denmark and with the other northern members of the NATO alliance. We are all like-minded. We want to contain Russian power.
We want to keep China out of this hemisphere strategically and prevent the Chinese from building up their power. And the best way to do that is not to dissolve NATO and break NATO apart by an American military invasion, but to go back to Greenland. And with the Danes establish a much stronger American military presence.
What if what the president wants, I'm sure that he wants to maintain military dominance over certainly China and Russia as well. But what if he also wants to mine Greenland's natural resources and so that we can keep them for ourselves and that we do not have to share them with other NATO members? I mean, is that potentially why he wants Greenland so they can have the earth there.
Well, the president hasn't been, at least in my judgment, that specific. So I don't want to put words in his mouth. But look. But he does seem to want the oil in Venezuela. That seems to be, the oil seems to be at least partially a driver in Venezuela.
And now we know after he has arrested the illegitimate or not president of Venezuela, he has now said that they're going to give us 50 million barrels of oil. Well, the two situations are very different. Maduro was illegitimate. Venezuela is not a military ally of the United States. Denmark is. Denmark has been with us since the First World War, by the way.
And the United States said during the First World War, and we repeated that when NATO was created, we respect Danish sovereignty in Greenland. The Danes have been there for more than 300 years. That is not our property. So if anyone in the administration is thinking that the real reason for this
is to mine rare earths and other minerals and oil and gas in Greenland and take it all from ourselves, well, that would be larceny. That would be highway robbery. It's unthinkable that the United States would want to live in a world where there are no rules and that, in fact, we try to exploit the resources of NATO members against their will. Now, this is a hypothetical conversation.
I'm not saying... You asked the question. I'm not saying that the Trump administration wants to do this. I can't believe... that many members, if any at all, of the United States Senate would support that. So that's hypothetical. What's real is that we used to have 17 military bases in Greenland, and now we have one.
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