Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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You certainly ask interesting questions.
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We have Kyriakos Mitsotakis, Prime Minister of Greece, here with us. We'll jump straight in. A lot of movement on Ukraine this week. You've had Trump saying stuff about it. You have various NATO allies getting cross about the fighter jets incursing into their territory and warning Russia about it. You even had Germany coming forward and saying, let's use the 140 billion euro strategy.
frozen assets to help Ukraine. Now, you have always been a kind of champion of this idea of having a common European fund for defense. And you've always had pushback from the Germans on that. Do you think now it stands a chance of going through?
Well, thanks for having me, John. I've been advocating for quite some time about the need to create some joint European borrowing facility to cover what I consider the quintessential European public good, which is common European defense. And I do sense that there is much more momentum now amongst my colleagues.
Some of the countries that were inherently against the idea of additional further joint borrowing have changed their mind. And I'm pretty sure that Germany will eventually also agree to this necessity. And we need to make sure that this facility finances projects of common interest. And I would put missile defense, drone defense right up there in terms of our collective European priorities.
So I would expect some movement soon. We have two European councils. And hopefully we can make progress towards that direction.
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Chapter 2: What is the momentum for joint debt in the EU?
I wondered if now you're close enough to say this year you'll end up with a surplus again for the government.
We've been producing significant primary surpluses, and I think it's quite possible that we may have a real surplus again this year. This is a foundation of our economic policy. We've suffered a lot from not being fiscally disciplined. This is not going to happen again. But I think the big success of our policy is to ensure that the economy is growing at the same time, to create jobs.
We've created 500,000 jobs since I became prime minister. And the real goal is to ensure that this collective wealth is spread equally. So my focus now is to use whatever fiscal space I can create through growth and tackling tax evasion to cut taxes for the middle class. It's important for me that this discussion is not just limited to the economists saying good things about the economy.
I want the average Greek to really feel a tangible benefit from this growth story. And starting January 1st, when these tax cuts will kick in, they will see a real increase in their paychecks, and this is very, very important to me.
Let's come back to the average Greek in a second. You just mentioned fiscal discipline. You look at the core of Europe. I sat down with Prime Minister Sanchez of Spain the other day as well. Something dramatic has changed. Greece, Spain, you're the countries growing really fast. In the middle, you've got countries in much greater trouble. You look at France. You're growing, let me know, over 2%.
They're struggling to get to half a percent of growth. Their debt is ballooning. Are we now in a situation where you would worry about financial contagion from France?
This seemed inconceivable a few years ago. What I can tell you is that eventually no one can beat the markets.
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Chapter 3: How does the Prime Minister view the role of defense in the EU?
We know this very well. And I do think that at some point governments have to take difficult decisions to put their fiscal house in order. We've done that. Once you do it, then you can enter into this virtuous cycle where You can actually grow the economy. You can cut taxes. You can support income through targeted measures.
We are there, but we also went through very, very difficult periods and very painful reforms. So I do hope that the political situation in France somehow stabilizes. It is important that the core of Europe, you know, France, Germany, that these economies are doing well. I mean, we will receive 36 million tourists this year.
Our tourism industry is booming, but if our core markets don't do well, we will also at some point indirectly be affected.
You're a famously polite man, and I know that schadenfreude is not a Greek word, it's a German one, but there must be some element in Greece of looking at these people who nearly push Greece out and thinking, well, things have changed.
Well, things have changed, but at the end of the day, this is not about pointing fingers or about saying that you were wrong. And we were right. It's about ensuring that Europe collectively grows. I'm disappointed by the fact that when I look at the Draghi report, we have not made significant progress. And I think it's time that, you know, in Europe, we usually wear two hats at the Council.
We wear our European hat and we wear our national hat. And it seems to me that for some countries, the European hat seems to be shrinking. So we have to look at the big picture. Some of the decisions that we need to take require more funding. It's pretty clear.
And we need to put our European interests not necessarily ahead of our national interests, but to realize that some difficult decisions need to be taken at the European level.
One of the areas where Europe has been pretty useless at doing these things is banking, the banking union and things like that. Italy's Unicredit has built up a stake in Alfa Bank, which you were famously much more relaxed about than the Germans were when they built up one in Commerzbank. Would you be prepared if they were to take over Alfa Bank? Would you be relaxed about that?
If we really mean what we say about creating scale in banking union, we should be open to these types of transactions. I see value. when an important foreign bank wants to acquire a stake in a Greek bank. It means they believe in the potential of the Greek economy, and it means that the bank could possibly do better.
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Chapter 4: How does Greece's economic performance influence EU policies?
That's what we have done so far. We will continue doing it. I do expect that next year we will again perform very well. So I tell my fellow Greek citizens that I think the best days are ahead of us and that this is a policy that will deliver long-term benefits to them.
You have elections coming up in 2027. The polls at the moment say you might have to go into coalition with people. You've won two terms. I think you'd be the first person to get a third term if you did. Would you be prepared to go into coalition?
Elections are 18 months ahead, 18 months out. We are way ahead in the polls. Our goal is to win an absolute majority. We've done it twice. There were people doubting that we would succeed before the previous elections.
I think that if we deliver on our commitments and if the economy continues growing, if we work hard to improve the National Health Service, these are the priorities I set out in 2023, we have a reasonable chance to win an absolute majority. But if the Greek people decide otherwise, eventually we have to respect their decision.
We will look forward to following you through that. Kiriakos Mitsotakis, thank you very much for talking to Bloomberg. Thank you. Thank you, John, for having me.
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