Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Bloomberg Audio Studios. Podcasts. Radio. News. Let's bring in Ross Gerber. He has thoughts on both of these companies. He's president and CEO of Gerber Kawasaki Wealth and Investment Management. They've got about $4 billion in assets under management, and he's with us from, I bet, lovely Santa Monica, California. How warm is it by you?
75 and sunny. I'm right next to the beach, too, so I don't want to rub it in. All right, that's enough, Ross. We're moving on.
We're done with you. No, we're so glad to have you here.
You asked.
I know, I know, I know. I'm a sucker for pain here. Hey, what story is more interesting to you, Ross? Is it Tesla and the possible combination of SpaceX, XAI, or is it Disney?
Well, the Disney story is a little bit sad for me because I'm just like, I've owned this company for my whole life and Iger's done a great job sort of re-fixing the business and getting good movies back in the theaters and such, but they just can't seem to get the momentum going And the valuation for Disney just makes no sense.
It's so cheap relative to what they're willing to pay for Warner Brothers assets, which are garbage compared to Disney. But they just seem like maybe this company needs to be broken up. And that's part of it. That's part of it. What does that look like?
What does that breakup look like, Ross?
well see josh and dana are both great executives so like they have like the fact they have to pick one is the problem because dana runs entertainment and josh runs the the theme parks and all this kind of stuff and they're just completely different businesses with different skill sets and and maybe they should be co-ceos even though i hate that formula for businesses
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Chapter 2: What are Ross Gerber's thoughts on Disney's current valuation?
Well, you have theme parks, resorts, and experiences. The cruise ships is one, and then you have your streaming business as the other, and then you have ESPN Sports as the third, right? So you have entertainment that's non-sports, and then you have a pure sports play, which they just sold 10% to the NFL.
Would that work? With all the cross pollination that happens these days, like, you know, you go on a Disney cruise and the Disney IP is everywhere. You go see a Disney film and if it's a popular film that ends up becoming something that is an attraction at one of the park and resorts. It's supposed to be this virtual cycle that for years worked out really well.
Could they still do that as separate companies?
Yes, and I think it still works now that way, but explain how the sports business really matters when it comes to going on a cruise. It's nice to have ESPN on the TV there, but there's no relationship really. So I get when you're making a movie, you want it to go through the streamers. But I'm saying keep that all together.
And then they license the all their IP to the theme parks and resorts anyway. So it would just be an exclusive licensing agreement. I think it's actually quite simple. I think the real issue is extracting value from the very valuable assets and IP that Disney has while everybody's fighting over crappy IP and in assets like Disney has the best assets in Hollywood. So, you know, I don't know.
I just don't think they have a future. The market's saying like, wait, we don't see this future that you're making for us. Iger's ready to leave. So I actually think this story is pretty interesting because the entertainment business is never going to be the same after this merger goes through. And I don't know what it looks like on the other side. One more company.
I just want to ask you one question. No, forgive me. I broke in on you. But I do wonder, you know, Ross, go back a few years, and I remember doing this deep dive on Disney and talking with Bob and all the executives and just this whole idea, like Tim said, this cross-pollination.
And this was before Bob left for the first time.
Yeah, right, exactly. And, you know, people talked about the value of ESPN, like that's the value of the company. But it sounds like there is value in a lot of parts here. today and hence why you would argue for breaking it up into three. Is that is that true?
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Chapter 3: Why does Ross believe Disney might need to be broken up?
Hulu Disney Plus is a great streamer and a real competitor out there to the other streamers. And then you got ESPN, which is now dominating sports again and really has a piece of every major league out there from a broadcasting perspective. But ESPN financials don't make any sense next to the
the cruise ship financials because ESPN loses money having these big events, you know, that we all want on ESPN, and they make money when there aren't big events, actually. It's kind of a weird business. So they just don't complement each other.
And you saw it in the earnings report, which was generally a very good report for Disney, and the stock gets hammered because when you look at all the moving parts, it's never consistent. And so I just think if they were able to prove that these assets, I think, are worth closer to $150 a share, and that's what it was trading at, then I'd say I wouldn't be saying this.
But at $100 a share, you've got to break up this company and find value for its shareholders after five years of waiting.
Okay, Disney down 7.4% at $104.43 right now. In your view, the move to break up a company into separate parts, to combine a company into different companies into one company. Let's talk a little bit about... Elon Musk being in advanced talks to combine SpaceX with XAI, this according to people familiar with the matter. You had a really interesting comment out on social media earlier today.
You wrote, X was out of money, merged with XAI, XAI out of money, merged with SpaceX, SpaceX out of money, merged with Tesla, when they are all out of money, dot, dot, dot. You obviously are not a fan of this idea.
No, you know, it's not that. It's just, first of all, you're saying Elon Musk's in talks with himself? Like who's he in talks with? I don't think Elon Musk talks to anybody. He's gonna do this. So he's gonna merge all three companies because he has to, and he needs to, because Tesla has 44 billion on the books and they need the money. And every one of his projects is well out into the future.
So I'm not gonna tell you whether I think all these ideas are gonna work or not work. I don't bet against Elon. I think that's up for the future to determine, you know? But all these businesses are incredibly capital intensive with very, very questionable profit margins or even viability. Like data centers in space is not a viable business, let's be real.
It's very expensive to build a data center on earth. Now imagine putting it up in space. Like this is just, we're getting into this level of absurdity. So that's why I put it out there, like what happens next? So I've got like 18 projects that are incredibly capital intensive. Will people just keep giving Elon Musk money forever? But a lot of it's the same people
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Chapter 4: What is Ross's vision for the future of Disney's business structure?
You've done that. We've talked about that a million times. You own Tesla cars. What is it for you that you need to see?
I own X, too.
I own XAI, too. That's right. OK. So I'm just curious. So you obviously like a lot of what Elon's doing. What is it that has to happen that makes you say, I'm done?
I'm out. Please don't say that I like what Elon's doing. I actually abhor him. He's doing horrendous things that I don't agree with at all. And I want to make that very, very clear. On a personal level, I think his behavior is disgusting. And I think his viewpoints are disgusting, and he's destroyed the brand.
But he is one of the greatest engineers of our time, and he's a great inventor, and he's built a lot of amazing things. So I don't discount that, and I'm invested in that. But that said, you know, at some point this all has to come together and actually work. And that's, you know, you know, the big question.
So I don't bet against Elon and I am sort of betting for him or I actually what I say is I bet with crazy people sometimes and that's worked for me over my life. And, you know, so I have a certain bet with him and I think he's crazy and maybe he pulls this stuff off, you know.
Yeah, so you're willing to make the bet on Elon still, just got about 15 seconds.
Well, look at the other side of the coin is you have Tim Cook at Apple who won't do anything. This guy is so risk adverse, he's scared to get in the water. You know what I mean? And so like Apple's just sitting on the cusp of the AI revolution, like with binoculars going, who do I pay next? Because I haven't done anything.
So, you know, you have Elon on one end of the risk spectrum and you have Tim on the other.
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