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Chapter 1: What led to the Blue Jays' shocking loss against the Orioles?
Well, Nick, a disastrous ending in this one. Boy, that was real ugly. Jays head into the bottom of the ninth inning with a 5-1 lead. They get the insurance runs you wanted them to get earlier in the game. Okamoto, Vladdy with some big swings. but boy Hoffman comes in for maybe not the bottom of the order. I mean, five, six, seven, I guess is who he, who he saw to start.
He did get the K of Messiah to start things off, but then six straight runners reach a hit batter, RBI, triple RBI, single double walk. Base is loaded. He's taken out of the game.
Chapter 2: How did Jeff Hoffman's performance impact the game outcome?
After that bases loaded walk, Connor Seabold put in somewhat of an untenable position. It's on him. Certainly another bases loaded walk. And then he allows Pete Alonzo to walk it off with the RBI single as well. I mean, as entertaining a six, five win was last night and a monster comeback for the blue Jays.
That is as ugly a loss as you're going to see this season, a six, five defeat today at Camden yards Jays. Unfortunately with the loss, they fall back below 500 at 29 and 30.
Truly brutal stuff. And for much of this game, you and I were talking about if you were a Baltimore Orioles fan, this was the most frustrating game you could possibly watch. The Orioles kept putting guys on base, walk after walk after walk, seven of them from Trey Savage, just double play, double play, double play. The offense couldn't get anything going.
I'm sure that many Baltimore fans who were in that stadium felt there was no chance for this team heading into the ninth. And then you get this disaster from Jeff Hoffman and And also, you know, I think you could argue fairly convincingly from the manager as well, leaving him in to allow seven consecutive hitters to reach base and not just kind of fluky, soft, single stuff.
We're talking about multiple extra base hits, a hit batter, which in the past has kind of been a sign that Hoffman is really off because he doesn't normally do that. Multiple walks. you know, I don't have to spend too much time dragging Hoffman because so many of our listeners are thinking these things.
And I'm sure that conversation is going to continue over the course of the show, but what happened exactly with Hoffman in this game, but the sort of performance that the team obviously can ill afford. And it looked like they were building momentum. They're going to get above 500. They were going to win the series and,
This is a kind of a jokey historical stat, but they're going to get to 500 as a franchise in history today. It was all supposed to happen. And then this, you know, ugly meltdown that takes a whatever you want to call a 99% chance of a win and just throws into the garbage.
Yeah, that's one of those games where you don't want to look at the win probability chart. I think on on baseball savant. That's for that's for certain. That's Nick Ashbourne. I'm show Ali. You're listening to blue Jays talk on the sports net radio network. We're also streaming on sports net.ca and on the sports net app. You can give us a call.
I think we all know what the cost will be about today. 4 1 6 8 7 0 0 5 91 triple a triple 6 0 5 90 star 5 90 on yourself. You can text us as well. A bazillion texts for us to get to 5 95 90 name and location. The people's text line, of course, always open standard messaging and data rates may apply. All right. Before we get into the Hoffman conversation, Schneider conversation, it'll deeper here.
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Chapter 3: What role does John Schneider play in Hoffman's ninth-inning struggles?
It's his first four-hit game of the season. A double was included. He built off. a strong performance yesterday. He was not part of any of the issues that cost them a loss here and help them, you know, secure those double plays in the middle of the game. Again, it's hard to give too much credit to any Blue Jay in this moment, but Vladdy had a great day at the office.
He did. You know what? He really did. I mean, Look, top of the fourth inning, Vladdy gets the single. He does come around to score. Eventually, he, to your point, has the insurance run come home, which ultimately did not help, but still was certainly you felt good about it at the time. So I think from a Blue Jays perspective, you could have gone a number of ways in this one.
I mean, you could have gotten given it to Kazuma Okamoto perhaps as well. He had a pair or started at least a pair of pretty double plays. So yeah, I mean, there are, there are probably a number of candidates to go. Yeah. I mean, if you, I think if you had to pick an Oreo on this one, it does feel like for, for me, it probably would have simply been Brandon young.
I mean, six and two thirds, two earned runs, seven strikeouts, seven hits allowed. I mean, a quality start when you desperately needed it. If you're the Oreos and to your point, I mean, they don't get a lot of luck going their way. And then it just all came down on an avalanche in the bottom of the ninth inning. But, but yeah, I think Vladdy is a worthy, worthy pick for, uh, player of the game.
All right, let's talk about that ninth inning. So like I said, we went over very briefly what went down. I do think so. Okay, five, six, seven is where Hoffman is what Hoffman got essentially. And now I think initially when I saw them warming up and then Vladdy does get the insurance run. It's now five, one. And then, you know, the cameras show Siebold and Hoffman warming in the ninth.
And I just, I wondered whether or not I wanted Schneider to send Hoffman into the ninth, regardless, just because he's had some issues in the ninth. Now, again, he has been pretty good as of late. So I think I'm sure that ended up being John trying to reward Hoffman for some good pitching as of late, but it just, I can't help, but think that Schneider, I said this before,
the ninth inning is a different animal, right? And again, I mean, it's crazy to think that this, that whole inning started with a strikeout of Samuel Basayo and then things just collapsed in the worst possible way. But yeah, it's just, I mean, I can read you a sampling of these texts, but yeah, a lot of people are wanting to know
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Chapter 4: What were the offensive highlights despite the loss?
not only why Varland didn't either get the ninth or continue pitching into the ninth after he was relatively efficient. I think it's a valid question. And even beyond that, you know, if you want to blame John Schneider, why Schneider didn't come out to get Hoffman after things turned over for the top of the order, because to your point, when we were talking about it right off the top,
It's not as though they were just squibblers that were that barely got back to the mound that the catcher couldn't get to first base. They were smashing pitches into right field one after another after another. I said to you here in the studio, like, hey, John's coming to get him for Taylor Ward. And then he just did it. And then again. He saw, who was it?
I guess it was Rutschman, I guess, right? Or Henderson, pardon me, afterwards. So, I mean, top of the order. The whole point of using Hoffman the way they've been using him lately is so that he does not have to see the top of the order. Maybe the damage had already been done at that point.
But, I mean, yeah, there's not a lot of ways you can slice this without it being an ugly discussion, essentially.
Yeah, there is no way to dive into this without some level of criticism about how the pitching staff was handled and what John Schneider chose to do in this game. And it is funny to criticize him on both sides of it and say, listen, Hoffman's one of your high leverage guys. Why are you using him in the ninth up four runs? And that was our initial thought when we were discussing this in studio.
It felt like overkill because the way Hoffman has been pitching realistically in the last Let's call it a few weeks since he came out of the closer role. His last 15 games, he's got a 245 ERA, 20 strikeouts against two walks. As many walks as he had in this game, he had over those period of weeks. He'd been sharp. And so he kind of felt like he did not need him.
And going to Seabold would probably be fine. And if Seabold struggled, he could bring in Hoffman to clean it up. That's how things felt at the time. Things changed significantly over the course of the outing.
And when you talk about what a manager's role is, some of the criticism people have of managers is that, oh, this is all coming from the front office and there's a game plan and they're just following it. What you have a manager there to do is observe the game as it's actually playing out and say, okay, listen, this may have been the plan, but this is how my players look in this moment.
This is the guy I have a hunch is going to get you the hit as a pinch hitter off the bench. This is the reliever who we thought we'd go to in this spot, but he clearly doesn't have it. So we're going to make a different move. And that's what happened in the ninth. Hoffman did not have it. He hit a batter. That was a red flag. And then you're talking about multiple extra base hits.
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Chapter 5: How did Trey Yesavage's pitching performance affect the game?
He'd faced five hitters. He'd allowed four base runners. And you could have justified it either way, I think. You know, the game was still... in the balance, but there was some room for error there. If he gets that out, then suddenly the stress level is down.
But when it came to Gunnar Henderson coming to the plate, and there's just been a walk, and now you know that a walk is going to bring in a run, and he's been wild in this game, that's where I thought, unless Seabold literally wasn't ready, just physically hadn't warmed up correctly or had taken him too long, which would be surprising because he'd been up earlier in the game.
For a while, yeah.
that's where I have a really hard time with that. You know, it's probably belief in the person, to be honest. You know, Schneider's there. He's always been a Hoffman supporter for better or for worse at times. And he thought, you know what? Hoffman has good stuff. He's a great pitcher. He's been good for us the last few weeks. He will get out of this.
But what was being seen on the field in terms of his stuff and the way the Orioles were responding to it just didn't justify that line of thinking.
All right, I'm going to read you a couple of texts here, so bear with me, all right? Let's see. I'm going to save that one because I think it's about Trey Savage. Chris in Victoria. why not run Varland out for the ninth and two innings save, give Hoffman an extra day off. I, you know, I kind of get not running. Look, I, I think knowing what we know now, I would have done that. Right.
But at the same time, at the time of a five, one lead to all the things you said about, could you have run Seabold out there? Then Hoffman to clean things up. If he got into trouble, should they just have gone to someone else entirely? I mean, could have Brayden Fisher been or not, whatever, whatever the options could have been. I kind of understand the thinking at the time with a five,
It's not even a save situation. Four-run lead. I mean, Hoffman should be able to handle that. Let's see. Madden Pickering. Dear Toronto Blue Jays, never ever put Hoffman in the ninth with a lead again. Signed, all Blue Jays fans everywhere. We have seen this movie too many times to keep giving him chances. He has value in other situations, just not the ninth. Tim and Red Deer.
We got Hoffman again. Again, emphasis Tim's. The smallest corner of the obtuse triangle of terror is where he should be wedged for eternity. I guess I think that's like the opposing area of the circle of trust. I guess the triangle of terror done in again by Jeff Hoffman, Richard in Toronto. This one's from our Bob in port credit. You know, what is wrong with Schneider?
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Chapter 6: What are the implications of Hoffman's future with the team?
Maybe not tomorrow, but ever again. I mean, I do appreciate it. I do enjoy your text. Mark from Tilbury. I don't care how good Hoffman has been recently. No good to the team. If you can only pitch well in non high leverage situations up on the trade block enough with him. Yeah.
I mean, Dave in Toronto, you look at what point you start really examining Hoffman inconsistencies, put them on the same bus as Brendan little. It's there's a lot like this. Say, say audio circle of trust from someone else. No name on that one. I don't think I, you know, I will say, I don't even know how well he's pitched. I don't think Hoffman, I don't think. I had him in my circle of trust.
I do. I do think to your point, he is, was question mark, but is in John Schneider circle of trust. I don't think for me, he was necessarily in there. Maybe based on his performances, if he had locked down a win today, maybe he was knocking on the door, but no, that door is no one knows. No one's opening that door to the circle of trust. I think anytime soon.
Yeah, for sure. And this is this is a concerning outing in a way that you're, you know, a couple bloops drop and and a guy, you know, there's a wild, you know, those type of outings where things sort of go wrong and a run comes in. But it doesn't truly mean the guy pitched poorly. This is different. You know, they made very hard contact against him.
They were able to get on base via the walk multiple times. He hit about like this is there is no defending this outing. There's probably a little bit of revisionist history going on. You know, this is a guy who got saves in the ninth in on the 21st and 23rd of May fairly recently. We're talking just over a week ago. He faced six batters in that time and struck out five of them, right?
Like it's not like he hasn't been in the ninth and been okay. I'm not saying he needs to go out there. Louis Varland has been, you know, one of the, very best relievers in baseball, perhaps on his way to one of the best relief seasons in Blue Jays history. So Varland is absolutely the guy. Rogers is the guy above that.
But, you know, Hoffman hasn't had a meltdown like this since the middle of April. He hasn't allowed more than one run since April 18th.
Was that the walk-off Grand Slam?
Oh, I don't think he wasn't. Yes, yes, it was. That was the Diamondbacks one. So again, people have a lot of, this is a strong word. People have a lot of Jeff Hoffman trauma. So I understand when you get a meltdown like this, it activates all the negative feelings. I'm not sure that he is as doomed to be terrible from here on out as people might believe. This was as bad as it gets.
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Chapter 7: How did the bullpen construction contribute to the game's outcome?
I'm not sure anything's going to happen from here that is going to radically, again, change the situation.
Yeah, like Jeff and Smith's Falls. We'll go to the phones in a sec here. But Jeff and Smith's Falls, DFA Hoffman, never want to see him pitch again. This one, where was the other one? Oh, here. Amy from Kitchener. Today can be summed up in three letters twice. I guess six letters. WTF DFA, I guess five letters is two F's in there.
But look, I'm with you that and I'm with a lot of the textures that I just I would like to just not see unless it's maybe a five run lead in those situations. And again, I don't think we're going to get our wish. I think you are going to see him in those situations late in games. maybe at the very least in a setup role. But I, the reason I don't think you're going to see him DFA.
And again, I mean, I feel like you can never rule anything out at this point for any of these teams. But the reason I feel it's unlikely at the very least is simply because like, who is the other guy, right? I mean, who, who are at this point, they are just churning this, these bullpen spots.
And this is a team that even if things had gone perfectly for Hoffman today at the deadline, they're still going to go out there and get as many arms as they can humanly get because next to Hoffman flew Hardy, Fisher, Varland, of course, Rogers are all being worked as much as they can have them be worked essentially. Right.
And again, this, I, you know, Varland, if he pitches tomorrow would be four, four appearances in five days, which that's a lot for a guy who's already pitched a ton this year. I want to say, I think Varland's pitched more than Mason Miller has so far this year in terms of innings. So I, Look, it's, I get all of it. Honestly, it's just, I think you, well, it won't be DFA.
I think you, to your point in terms of the pecking order, it might go Fisher over Hoffman for that spot moving forward. And you know what, based on what we saw yesterday, the first career save looked pretty nails. Didn't get shook late in the game when Clement booted that ball. I think that probably the right move, honestly.
Yeah, I think they're probably when you see a situation like this where, again, it's not just your average blown save or things don't go your way or you just give up the one big hit. Right. Sometimes there'll be a situation where you just give up one home run and it's just a single swing. And that's it for you. And that happened with Hoffman a lot last season. Right.
It was home runs that were often the cause of the troubles. Yeah. Sometimes that's easier to forgive because it's just one instance. Whereas again, this was, this was a parade. It was a parade of base runners. And so that requires a little bit more time to absorb what happened here. How can we make sure it doesn't happen again? I'm sure they're going to have theories on that.
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Chapter 8: What are the fans saying about the team's management decisions?
Let's start out west. Mark in Whistler, B.C., joining us here as our leadoff caller. Mark, what's up today? Mark, you there? Mark, you got us there? All right, we'll come back to Mark. Let's come back to Mark. That's okay. Although, you know what? I feel like that's what he was talking about.
I feel like we know where he was going. I think there was something Hoffman-esque going on there.
All right, let's go to Glenn and Markham joining us here on Jay's Talk as our lead-off caller. Glenn, what's up?
Hello, can you hear me?
Yeah, what's up, Glenn?
Yeah, can you hear my talking? Yes, Glenn, go ahead. So I want to talk about, one, I think today, I think they all just did what we did to them yesterday. So that's what maybe make myself feel a little more positive. That's number one. Number two, looking forward to tomorrow, If we can win tomorrow, we still win that series. So I feel good about it.
But the problem is, how can we manage our pitching tomorrow? My guess is our winning formula, it will be Spencer Miles, Mason Floharty, then it's Fisher, Rogers, and Varlin. But this is not a playoff. This is a regular season. I don't want to overuse Varlin or Rogers. So, yeah, I... I feel like tomorrow pitching will be a tough spot. So I think the Orioles win tomorrow.
But if we can somehow manage to win tomorrow, I will still feel very positive about this team moving forward. So, yeah, that's what I want to say. Thank you. Thanks for taking my call.
Thanks, Glenn. Appreciate the call. So for tomorrow, John Schneider, he was talking to media. We'll get some John Schneider sound in a sec. But he, according to our producer, Nick Blackmore, has not...
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