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The Claire Byrne Show

Author Carissa Véliz speaks to Claire on her new book ‘Prophecy’

14 May 2026

Transcription

Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.

Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?

1.887 - 28.435 Claire Byrne

The Clare Byrne Show on Newstalk. With Aviva Insurance. We're constantly being told that AI is going to change the way we live, the way we work, the way we play. We're also told that we all need to adapt to AI and use it or we will miss the boat. But my next guest says that before we buy into any predictions, we need to stop and ask, who's telling us this and what are they selling?

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28.956 - 49.917 Claire Byrne

Let's find out more from philosopher, author and Oxford professor Carissa Veilies, who has recently published her new book, Prophecy. Carissa, you're so welcome to the programme. Thank you so much for having me. So if we're told that something like AI is going to define us and change us and become intrinsic to all of our lives, you argue that that in itself becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

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Chapter 2: How is AI predicted to change our lives?

50.909 - 66.465 Carissa Véliz

Yes, predictions about the social world act like magnets. They tend to bend reality towards themselves. And so the first thing to note is that no prediction is ever a fact. It can be at best an educated guess, but more often than not, it's a power play in disguise.

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67.025 - 78.317 Carissa Véliz

And instead of just accepting it as a fact and obeying and making the prediction become a self-fulfilling prophecy, maybe we should stop for a second. And if we don't like the prediction that we're listening to, we should defy it.

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78.432 - 81.456 Claire Byrne

So in particular, do you say that that's happening with AI?

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82.678 - 100.646 Carissa Véliz

Yes, it's a fundamental tool of Silicon Valley that they sell us a vision of the future. And they sell it not as a hypothesis or a possibility, but that is inevitable. They tell us that that is progress and that's what it looks like and there's nothing to do about it. And that's a very authoritarian tactic.

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Chapter 3: What questions should we ask about predictions?

100.987 - 119.745 Carissa Véliz

We've seen it before in authoritarian regimes, but that it's being used by companies is no different, particularly companies that are so powerful. And part of the duty of citizens in a democracy is to question that and to say, well, is that the future that we want? And if not, what are we going to do to build the future that we want to live in?

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119.725 - 130.579 Claire Byrne

Well, tell us a little bit about the lessons that we have learned from history, because I suspect that you believe that predictions have always been a bit of a con man's charter.

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131.572 - 148.649 Carissa Véliz

Yes, and it's fascinating that even though there are thousands of books and even academic journals on prediction, there wasn't even one book on the ethics of prediction, on what kinds of predictions maybe we shouldn't do. And one of the lessons is that next to leaders, you always find a profit.

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149.089 - 168.391 Carissa Véliz

And even though the technology of AI is very different from, say, astrology or the Oracle of Delphi, the political role that they play is actually quite similar. And if you would have interviewed a medieval European and asked them about astrology, they would have said something like, well, it's a very technical discipline. It's very hard to understand. It's very opaque.

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168.411 - 173.417 Carissa Véliz

And it's a cutting edge decision making method. That's exactly what we say about AI today.

173.437 - 182.588 Claire Byrne

But what does it say about us as human beings that we so desperately want and have always desperately wanted to know what's going to happen into the future?

183.412 - 198.829 Carissa Véliz

Well, it's nerve wracking to be a human being. We're in a way too smart because we know of everything that can go wrong and we want to avoid bad things from happening. And we get the illusion that if we can see around the corner, that will make us safer and that it will give us a competitive advantage.

199.21 - 209.942 Carissa Véliz

The trap is that that assumes that there's a script to be discovered, but the future is unwritten. And in fact, it's unpredictable. And not to be aware of that perversely makes us more unsafe.

Chapter 4: How do predictions act as self-fulfilling prophecies?

209.922 - 222.835 Claire Byrne

But I mean, going back again to the self-fulfilling prophecy, if a fortune teller tells you that you're going to have a happy marriage to a fair haired man, there's a risk that you're going to turn down the perfectly suitable dark haired man.

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223.793 - 242.038 Carissa Véliz

Exactly. Predictions change our expectations about the world if we believe them. But we have the power to question them. So if Oedipus had laughed off the prediction that he would marry his mother and murder his father instead of getting scared and trying to run away from it, he wouldn't have made the prediction come true.

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242.474 - 258.188 Claire Byrne

Tell me a little bit more about that theory, because you talk about power being in our hands when we ignore predictions. But when predictions are taken seriously, it becomes more about the power of the person making the prediction rather than the knowledge that they have.

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258.691 - 278.826 Carissa Véliz

Exactly. So when a tech executive says that we will use his product tomorrow everywhere and for everything, and if you don't, you're going to fall behind the curve, what they're trying to do is to instill in you the fear of missing out so that you will go out and buy that product and fulfill their vision of the future, which also happens to line their pockets. And instead...

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278.806 - 293.972 Carissa Véliz

We should realize that no, that the future is unwritten, that nobody knows what it holds, that it's partly up to us to build it. And that uncertainty is actually very good news, because even though it can be nerve wracking, it also means that we have the power to change the future.

294.392 - 300.122 Carissa Véliz

Because if you knew exactly where you would be tomorrow and every day after that, it would mean that you lived in a police state.

300.592 - 315.512 Claire Byrne

We also have to make the distinction, don't we, Carissa, between those who are set to benefit financially from these predictions and those who are experts, who have studied a field and are using data analysis to predict certain outcomes.

316.64 - 334.894 Carissa Véliz

Yes, and maybe even a more important distinction is predictions about things and predictions about the social world. Because if I make a prediction about a molecule, it's not going to change the molecule. But if I make a prediction about a human being, even if I have good intentions, there's a very high likelihood that it will affect that human being.

334.914 - 351.136 Carissa Véliz

So even, for example, predictions by economists with good intentions can shape the future dramatically. And therefore, we should be much more careful and we need a public debate about what are the rules of who gets to make these predictions and when maybe we shouldn't predict something, even if we could.

Chapter 5: What historical lessons can we learn about predictions?

648.747 - 660.319 Carissa Véliz

So we should do like Joe Frazier. And when we listen to a prediction about the social world that is against our interest, instead of taking it as a fact and accepting it, we should take it as an invitation for defiance.

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660.485 - 677.397 Claire Byrne

Very interesting theory. Thank you so much, Carissa Valise there on her new book, which is out now. It's called Prophecy.

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