Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
The Clare Byrne Show on Newstalk. With Aviva Insurance. Now, from Ukraine to the Middle East, the United Nations is facing criticism for failing to stop major conflicts. And it was built, of course, to stop future wars. Many say it's outdated. So is it fit for purpose to discuss this? I'm joined now by Dominic Waghorn, who is the Sky News International Affairs Editor. Hello, Dominic.
Good morning, Clare.
Chapter 2: What major conflicts is the UN criticized for not stopping?
Thank you very much for being with us. I think probably we need to go back, don't we, and talk about why the United Nations was established. It came after the two world wars, didn't it?
It did, yeah. And I think this is a question that I get asked probably Amongst the most questions, which is what's the point of the U.N. anymore? Does it do any good and does it have any teeth? And you're right, you have to sort of go back to its origins and remind yourselves that it was set up in the wake, the aftermath of World War II. I've got the U.N.
Charter in front of me, and that was the charter that was adopted by 50 nations and then one more Poland joined a year or so later, back in 1945. And in black and white, it kind of states that it's the mission statement for the U.N.,
It says, we the peoples of the United Nations determined to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights and the dignity and worth of the human person. In equal rights of men and women and nations, large and small, and so on. So it goes on.
So it's basically, yeah, it was set up by the world so that World War II and World War I can never happen again. But also some of the things that the world had agreed on, like international law and new laws against crimes against humanity, the sort of agreed on principles and systems to make sure that those laws were imposed. And it's part of that kind of post-war process.
set up that was designed to mean that the tragedy and trauma that the 20th century had meant for so many millions of people could not be repeated. And the problem is, I think, we see it as a kind of world government, as a world authority. And that's a misunderstanding. It's a club of nations and it has advantages and disadvantages like all clubs do.
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Chapter 3: Why was the United Nations originally established?
It's now a very big club, isn't it? And part of the problem with it arises from the fact that there are so many members. And we'll talk about the more fundamental problem of those at the top of the tree not agreeing. But just talk to me about the membership first.
Yeah, that's right. So it started off with 51 nations, and it was basically set up, obviously, by the victors of World War II. So at the top of it is the UN Security Council, China, Russia, France, Germany, Britain and America, obviously not the vanquished in World War II, Germany and Japan, and none of the developing nations either.
But it's swelled to this much bigger, much more unwieldy organisation now of 193 nations. And I go to Manhattan, to New York every year for the UN General Assembly. which is a couple of weeks where New York comes to a grinding halt because 193 world leaders and all their diplomats arrive and their motorcades bring the place to a halt.
But every year we hear the same calls, which this organization has just got too big. It needs to be reformed. Nothing actually ever happens. One person described trying to get changes to the UN like herding cats. And it's got so big. And it's kind of like a Tower of Babel and just a talking shop. Now, clubs work really well if everyone agrees on something and it has a force multiplier effect.
So if the whole world agrees that climate change, for instance, is a problem and the entire membership of the 193 Nation Club focuses on dealing with it, then obviously it can be very effective. The challenge really is galvanising it into united, coordinated action. And that's been a fundamental problem for the last couple of decades at least.
And let's talk about the Security Council then and the five permanent members. As you say, a club is easy to run if everybody agrees, but if you have these five permanent members at loggerheads, you're going to have real problems. And we've seen all of that come to pass in the last 20 years or so particularly.
Yeah, we have. Yeah. So, if you think about it as a sort of club, at the top of that club, there's this committee. And the committee is made up of five permanent members, those countries I listed, and then 10 temporary members who sort of get it for every two years. Now, the permanent members aren't just permanent, but they also have a right of veto. And they can use that to block anything.
So you have resolutions at the UN. The UN General Assembly resolutions are not binding. They're kind of recommendations. But the resolutions from the UN Security Council are binding. If you break those resolutions, then you are breaking international law. Now, that would be very effective if those five nations could agree.
But it's a bit like having a club where one member has gone rogue, is attacking the neighbours, continuing to do so, despite everyone in the club saying it's not a good thing to do. Another member has just decided to rip up the rulebook and to attack Iran in alliance with only one other member.
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