Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
The Clare Byrne Show on Newstalk with Aviva Insurance.
We're going to talk about perfectionism though, which appears to be on the rise, particularly amongst children and adolescents. So what is it? Why can it be so harmful and how do we manage it? I'm joined on the line by Dr. Harry Barry, who's a GP and expert in mental health. Hello, Harry. Hello, Clare. Great to be with you. Lovely to talk to you.
Chapter 2: What is perfectionism and why is it on the rise?
So, perfectionism, is it on the increase, firstly? Yes, it is on the increase. Unfortunately, it's on the increase. And it's particularly on the increase amongst our children and adolescents. And I think, you know, it's very interesting. Perfectionism is a personality trait where we set these excessively high standards for ourselves.
And when we can't achieve them, the real secret to perfectionism, we then regard ourselves as a failure. So it's... It's an incredibly, I suppose, devastating condition really for our mental health and wellbeing. And like it can be described in two ways. We kind of self orientated where we're putting the pressure on ourselves.
Or it can be socially prescribed where we're really allowing the outside world, particularly social media, to put pressure on ourselves. But this morning, we're going to really focus on the first, you know, the self-oriented. Can I just go back, though, because you said there that it's a personality trait, which suggests to me that it's innate, that some people are just like this.
Yes, it's something I'm often asked really is, does this come from environment? You know what I mean? Is it created by, say, a high achieving household, et cetera, et cetera? Yes, I think those factors are there and they're present, but it would be my experience over many, many years that most of the time the pressure comes from within the person themselves. So it seems to be something
that some people have from a very, very early age. And it's really important that we identify it and we help them learn techniques to deal with it because it can really affect their whole lives. That's the message I really want to get across today. What are the behaviours then that are associated with perfectionism when it's in a sort of a problem area?
In a problem area, we often find that the person gives up more easily a task, which is kind of quite surprising. But the big one is procrastination. The renowned procrastinators, they'll keep delaying, delaying, delaying till the very last minute because they're so afraid of failing. That's the key.
And they often then will avoid taking on challenges or purposely set a lower target for themselves, again, because of fear of failure. So, you know, I think it's important that behind perfectionism is the irrational belief that I absolutely must not have any imperfections. And if I do, I'm a failure.
So really what the person with perfectionism is really worried about, it sounds kind of strange, is they're worried about imperfections. So they become nearly obsessed with any imperfections, which of course we all know are inevitable in life.
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Chapter 3: How does perfectionism affect mental health?
So if we have a child who, say, tries to play a musical instrument and does some lessons and realises that they're not going to be in the National Concert Orchestra or playing with a band and then gives up that pursuit because they know they're not going to be brilliant at it. Is that sort of a flashing light there, a danger sign?
I think the key thing for me is the second part, that they rate themselves as a failure if they can't achieve it. You know, in other words, it's quite normal for all of us to try different things, find we're not great at them and maybe decide to back them in. But I think the problem with the perfectionists is that they are most concerned that they will be exposed as failures.
That's really their real, real concern. And, you know, the secret to this is because it's important that many, many people with perfectionism suffer from anxiety and they also are more likely to get depressed. They're more likely to get into other mental health difficulties.
So the long term studies are very interesting because you would expect that a perfectionist would do better in all areas of life. But the very interesting information is that they often struggle academically. They don't do as well at work. They don't have as successful relationships.
And even though the employers might love to have a perfectionist on their team, in fact, the consequences to the person are actually It's sometimes quite extreme, particularly in the area of anxiety. So I love dealing with perfectionism because it's something that we can practically do something about. You know what I mean? This is for me the key.
If we can identify it quickly in people and then teach them techniques, that's the whole secret to perfectionism. So identifying it firstly is key and then you move to the treatment. But really, I suppose, if we're talking to parents here this morning, we're saying if you think you have a perfectionist in the house, this is what you need to do. And what are the things that you can do?
Well, I think the first thing that when I get somebody with perfectionism, the first thing I'll try to get them to do is to see that is their irrational belief that they mustn't have any imperfections. To do their failure is really at the heart of it and also challenge their behaviour. So if we challenge both aspects, let's take one.
So I'm a great believer in, for example, trying to get across to the young person that imperfections are normal. They're part of mother nature even. So they're inevitable. So what I try to do is I give them perfectionist exercises. And I think these are a great crack on together. You can have great fun with these.
And that is that for a whole month, you have to change something in your appearance. something that makes you seem in your mind to be more obvious to other people. Like for example, you might wear one earring rather than two. You might wear your hair different to the way you normally do it. You might put makeup on one side versus the other. You might wear different socks.
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Chapter 4: What are the common behaviors associated with perfectionism?
that they, for example, show that they fail regularly and how they adjust to that and how to cope with that. And also to admit if they get anxious themselves, to not be afraid to reveal that to the child and say, you know, I get very anxious about things and that's normal. So normalising a lot of this takes away a lot of the heat out of it.
So show them that we fail and that we're still a good person after we fail. Exactly. That's the secret. That's the key. OK, Harry, thank you so much for being with us with that valuable advice. And we'll chat again soon. That's Dr. Harry Barry, who's a GP and mental health expert. Thank you to everybody who sent us in messages over the course of the morning.
And if you missed anything, don't forget you can listen back on the Go Loud app. The team today, thank you to Hugo Da Silva on sound, producers Dee King and Alex Russo. Research was by David O'Connor, Dylan Hand and Shanna Cole. Our broadcast assistant was Anne-Marie Kane.
I'll be back with you tomorrow morning from nine o'clock.