Chapter 1: What controversies is RTE facing before the Oireachtas Committee?
The Clare Byrne Show on Newstalk with Aviva Insurance.
And we turn to the RT Director General, Kevin Backhurst, who has insisted that the broadcaster has paid a price for transparency because the fallout from the latest top paid presenter controversy intensifies. Executives will appear before the Oireachtas Committee on Media today to answer more questions, including those about the family of Sean Rocks, the arena presenter who died last year.
We'll find out about that in a moment. Fionaan Sheehan is here, Ireland editor with the Irish Independent. Hello, Fionaan.
Smallest violin in the world, they're playing for Kevin Backhurst. Oh my, we're the victims of transparency. How terrible.
When he said that they've paid a price for transparency.
I'm not sure too many of the politicians will be impressed by that one. Their difficulty is that they keep appearing before these Oireachtas committees. with fresh controversies rather than it just being a routine thing where you're going through what's happening with your reform programme, is there pensions, how are your budgets getting on? That's fine.
Instead, the items like this are coming to the fore. Fresh developments last night, actually an interesting take from Mr. Backhurst. Last week we were told, oh, this all came out because we were implementing a recommendation and so on and so forth and it just happened to pop up and so on. And last night, Kevin MacArthur seems to apply.
It actually was the former Chief Financial Officer, Mary Hurley, who wouldn't sign off on the top 10 unless this was adjusted.
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Chapter 2: What details emerged from the recent meeting with RTE executives?
So that's a slightly nuanced version of events. Mary Hurley left the organisation recently. She was credited by Minister Patrick Grunman with bringing an awful lot of issues to the fore that hadn't previously been heard on. So it may well be that it was all part of the one piece. But, you know, little bits of details emerging now that we weren't exactly hearing now.
And did we hear much about the detail of that meeting that happened last night between Kevin Backhurst and Minister Patrick O'Donovan? Terence O'Rourke was there as well and Adrian Lynch from RTE.
Yeah, so went on for two hours and they went through a lot of the topics that they're expecting to face today. Patrick Goodall had asked for incremental breakdown in five grand increments of how many people are on money ahead above 100 grand. And he got that. Now, there's not names attached, but he gives him... A bit of a breakdown.
And what basically emerged from that is there's more people on over 100 grand in RTE now than there was five years ago, despite all the financial turmoil in the organisation. So that raised some eyebrows in government, to say the least. It might well come up again. today. They went through a variety of issues such as how this latest issue around Derek Mooney emerged.
They seem to have been forgiven by the minister for the delay in telling him that there was something coming down the track here. They also got a reassurance that there's no other landmines on the way because word was going around in government over the last couple of days that on a way out the door the departing chief financial officer had briefed the board
And that there might be other issues rising. Now, RTĆ are denying this and the board are saying, oh, no, it was just a routine meeting. So we were watching that space. But he got that reassurance. No, there's nothing else here. And he was slightly miffed to basically be the last person to know about what was going on in RTĆ.
Yeah, the minister, because if you listen to what people in RT are saying, it was gossip in RT on Wednesday, it was all around the newsroom on Thursday and the minister wasn't told until at least Thursday afternoon, if not Thursday evening. So he seemed to be a bit annoyed about that, but that seems to be forgotten now.
This issue about Sean Rocks was brought up last night by Patrick O'Neill and I'm expecting him to come up to the Rocks Committee today. first brought up by Labour's Marie Sherlock. And basically, Sean Rock's family and his widow have said, Sean Rock was a producer, presenter. He was down as a producer, but then he became presenter as well. He was getting an allowance for it.
I presume the issue was that wasn't a permanent pensionable allowance. And therefore, that had an impact upon pension entitlements after he so sadly passed away a year ago.
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Chapter 3: How did Sean Rocks' family become involved in the RTE discussions?
Yeah, and look, Clare, I think that just the first thing I do want to say about all this, and obviously we're all agog again at the whole issue with regards to RTE, but this is about how, you know, both RTE as a public service broadcaster and indeed any media organisation treats its staff, treats its workers, because, you know,
You know, we have a lot of very highly paid people, which is fantastic, you know, like is in fair play in terms of the amounts of money that people command. But there's also people who, you know, the researchers, the producers, the other parts of media organisations who have been typically very low paid. And I suppose that's why I feel so strongly about speaking about this.
So obviously, you know, many of your listeners would be familiar with Sean Rocks, who very sadly passed away last July. Much loved presenter of Arena, the flagship arts and cultural programme on our
And a great, I have to say, a great former colleague of my own and I knew Sean and he did great work there. And it was such a sad passing because he has a young family and it's that family that you're dealing with now.
Yes, yeah. And I suppose it's important to say that Sean presented Arena for 16 years. But when he signed the contract for Arena back in 2009, he was made to sign a producer's contract then with an allowance for his presenter duties. And effectively, what happened was that his pay was overall suppressed in terms of how his pay was structured. And that has had very significant implications for
for his family and his young children that have been left behind after his passing last year. And that's why I took the decision last Saturday, because I've been talking to his widow many times over the past number of months to actually talk about his story.
Because while all the focus, of course, is on Derek Mooney and what he got and how he was classified and whatever else, it is important to say that, you know, there are people who love their jobs within RTE. who have tried to fix their situation. And Sean was one of those who tried to fix the situation many times over the years with RT management. And yet, it never came to any conclusion.
Simply because, of course, everybody knew that Sean loved his job and was never prepared to walk away.
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Chapter 4: What issues are raised regarding Sean Rocks' pension entitlements?
And that's the long and the short of it. And there are many other people within that organisation. And I know it's across other media organisations as well. And, you know, I've spoken previously about how poorly paid researchers were on Newstalk and hopefully now it's a bit different under the new ownership.
But, you know, like I said, how badly treated some workers have been within media organisations and particularly bogus self-employment within RTE. People denied maternity leave, sick leave, holiday pay and, of course, very significant issues for their pensions then whenever they go out the door. So this is an issue about how workers are treated and fairness and transparency.
Like, you know, I think everybody would have understood Sean to be a presenter, not a producer. And yet his, how his paper structured was very different. And the legacy of that then is, yes, is what his family received.
Exactly. So, Fiona, just to come back to what we're expecting today then at the media committee, do we know who's going to be there from RTE? Is it all going to be about the top 10 list or what issues are at stake?
It's actually supposed to be about the reform programme and pensions, but one would imagine, for obvious reasons, that the Oireachtas Committee will pursue the executives on related issues that are now emerging. And there's a number of other issues.
Issues seems to be knocking around the political grapevine that they want clarity on about the structure of the top 10 earners list and how exactly it's put together. Because, in other words, are there other Derek Mooney's out there is basically the question that is being asked.
And we should say it's not the top 10 earners, it's the top 10 presenters.
And very interestingly, Clare, you point that out, because what RT did last week was throw out a very shiny object of, oh, here's the top 10 earners from our annual report that will be published later on in the summer. There's no sign of the 10 executives who might... most of whom are the actual top 10 earners we've only found out in recent years.
So for many years, RTE management were quite happy to parade out the stars, the talent, the on-air presenters as, oh, look how much they're being paid, when in fact the management were on vastly more. So it's rather curious. Again, they've done that tactic last week. Oh, here's the top 10 stars. Look at how much they're being paid. And yet no sign of the executive.
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Chapter 5: How does the treatment of RTE staff reflect broader media issues?
Yeah, but, I mean, I suppose the point has been made about the hypocrisy here about RT management coming out last year paying wholesome tribute to Sean Rocks. And yet this issue was going on in the background all along. And the fact that, you know, his family have had to effectively come out, get this issue exposed publicly is very sad in its own right.
And I really hope for their sake that it can be rectified and fixed because it does have huge implications.
Kevin McGrath's tribute last week Sean once said radio is never about the presenter it's about the person who is opposite you and I think today people will be asked well why wasn't Sean Rocks called a presenter which is what you're calling me here when you're paying tribute to him.
So Alan Kelly is the chair of the committee I imagine Marie will be getting him to raise that issue and there'll be a variety of others. So are there landmines today? potentially. Let's see what other names and what other anomalies come up here. But certainly they emerged fairly unscathed from the meeting with the minister last night.
Let's see what happens later on today. Fionnuala, thank you for coming in.
Fionnuala Sheehan there from the Irish Independent.
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