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Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
The Clare Byrne Show on Newstalk. With Aviva Insurance.
Now we move to this news that airlines soon won't be allowed to charge you extra for bringing a trolley bag onto the plane. A new EU deal has overhauled passenger rights. This will also include changes to airline seating and claims for cancelled or delayed flights.
Here to tell me more is former Senator, founder of Aer Lingus Regional and former chair of the Shannon Airport Group, Pádraig O'Kage and retired Lieutenant Colonel, Airport Safety and Security Auditor, Kevin Byrne. And you're both welcome to... to the programme. Pádraig, I'll start with you.
This change in the rules around charging for bags, does this mean we'll all be beating the heads off each other with our wheelie suitcases to get them on the plane?
Chapter 2: What changes are being made to EU air passenger rights?
That's true. Probably that will happen, Clare. This has been, I suppose, discussed and argued at EU level for probably about 10 years now, and the aviation industry have been very much against it and didn't want it. What they want from an EU perspective is to make this more passenger-friendly and more transparent. But there are unintended consequences as a result. As you say, you bring...
cabin bag on board, that's included in your price. Families, there is no fee to sit children under 14 beside a parent. Same for disabled passengers and their carers. Compensation stays the same as it was 20 years ago. There's no increase in compensation, even though inflation has gone up.
And airlines now have to be a lot more transparent and to show online how people, how passengers can actually claim when compensation is required or needed.
So what do you think the unintended consequences will be of all this?
First of all, will prices rise? Well, it'll be included in the price now going forward from mid-2027 onwards. So, yeah, people will see that the fare will be more and you can opt out. In other words, if you're not bringing... this carry-on bag with you. There is a bit of a discount that you can get as a result of it, but it's actually going to be included in the price.
So a lot of people will just pay it and move on, whether they're travelling lighter or not. That's the one thing. And probably a major issue, the real catch is bin space. Bin space cannot grow in the thing. So you can expect a lot more bags to be gate-checked and to be paid a kind of penalty or a premium fee to put it in the hold. And people will then have to...
wait around at their arrival airport to get that delivered to them off the carousel.
Michael, O'Leary often makes that point, doesn't he, that there just isn't enough room for everyone to bring a 10kg bag on. Now, I think this is a 7kg bag that will not be charged for under these new rules. But if everybody does that, if everyone brings that bag on board, you are going to have a battle over who gets to put the bag in the bin or the overhead bin and who doesn't.
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
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Chapter 3: How will the new rules affect airline baggage fees?
And what they'll have to do then be more vigilant at the gate and say, hold on a second, even though you're entitled to bring your bag on board, we cannot bring it on board because X number of people have gone through with their bags and we don't have space for your bag. So you have to put it in the hold. That's one of the unintended consequences.
What about the seating changes?
The seating changes are interesting. I very, very much support the idea that there's no fee for children under 14 to sit beside a parent, and the same for disabled passengers and their carers. That's really, really important. What happened here, Clare, is that back in the year, and fairness, like, Ryanair were the first to develop this.
They say there's a fare of 19 euros, 29, 39 euros, but that does not include a seat. You pay for a seat and then you pay for more and more and more. So there's a lot of extras onto it.
But having said that, and I did a little bit of kind of an analysis and studies before this conversation now, and European fares are up between 10 and 15% on pre-COVID levels, which actually is below general inflation. So in actual fact, We're getting a reasonably good deal from airlines, in particular Ryanair, quite frankly.
OK, so there is scope for the prices to go up. And are you saying that under these changes, the prices are likely to go up?
Yes, 100 percent.
Kevin, do you agree with that?
I do really. I was just reflecting, as Pádraig said, I last took a flight and I paid for the bag and the bag cost me more than the flight itself. So what I want to know is if the new price includes a bag. Will I get the same value back? Will I get my 25 quid back, so to speak, to get a small bag that fits under the seat in front of me and doesn't need the overhead locker?
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Chapter 4: What unintended consequences might arise from the new baggage policies?
And it had to be done. But the add-on things, you see, that has been a problem for the consumer people in the EU, so to speak. They said it's not very fair. You should buy, you know, you should go back to the old days in some respects. And they've removed, you know, the requirements to pay for that. So it's all to do, though, with low fares. We've been very lucky, as Boric has said.
We've really stabilized the fees. And we're getting extremely good value compared to what we got, say, 25 years ago even. And there's a whole host of new routes that wouldn't be there if it were not for the low-cost carriers. So we have really a lot to be thankful for, both in terms of the airline service and in the EU looking after our consumer rights.
I just wonder, though, are we shooting ourselves in the foot, Pádraig, as consumers here? Will we be paying more ultimately or will it just look different? You know, it'll be the line item will be different in that you're not paying for your bag, but you're paying more for something else.
It's a good question, Clare. I think predominantly the line item will be different and the cost of the bag will be included rather than excluded at the moment. And then we will have to tick a box to say we don't want the 7kg bag. So the price will be seen to be more expensive because of that. Having said that, the basic model for an airline, if you look at the
the kind of break-even level of an airline. An airline requires passenger numbers. So a passenger, one euro difference, can make millions of a difference to an airline at the end of the day. So it's in the airline's interest to have the maximum number of passengers, and they can do that at a very, very price-sensitive figure. So Ryanair, with 93,
95 or so, 90 plus percent load factor, that's where they make the profit. It's the extra 10 or 15 percent of more passengers on board that they actually make the money on. And that's basically the economic model in aviation.
Some people complain, don't they, about, in general terms, the pace of change with the EU, you know, the pace of reaction. And if you look at the airline business, the systems are so established. We all know your 10kg bag has to be 10kg and no more than that. If you want to sit with certain people on the plane, you have to pay for that.
Now to upend that system, Parag, I mean, you'll know this working, you know, in the consumer world, that it is hard to change people's behaviour and their expectations. And I just wonder, is the EU acting here too late, really?
um yeah i i again i just go back clear to potential unintended consequences and some that we might be aware of now and others that we're we're not aware of and i think it i think it will to some degree affect some passengers in relation to their psychology of it but having said that the number of passengers flying now has been unprecedented and like as kevin said earlier what
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