Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
The Clare Byrne Show on Newstalk. With Aviva Insurance. And I'm joined by the Deputy Business Editor at the Sunday Times, John Isle. Good morning to you, John.
Hello, Clare.
You wrote a powerful piece published in the London Times about your experience of being Jewish in Ireland at the moment, and I wanted to talk to you about that. Do you feel, from your point of view, that things have changed in Ireland in recent times since the 2023 issues began October 7th in Israel, or has it always felt uncomfortable?
It's a good question. I think there is definitely, in my experience, and I should say I've lived in Ireland for most of the last 30 years, so basically my entire adult life, there was a big change I noticed when I moved here.
Chapter 2: What prompted Jon Ihle to write about his Jewish experience in Ireland?
I was born and raised in New York, obviously a city with a very large Jewish population, where to be Jewish wasn't in any way remarkable. And I should say that I was raised as a secular Jew, meaning we didn't attend synagogue regularly. You know, we sort of half-heartedly celebrated the holidays.
But in my own personal experience, when I came over here, I recognized something in me that was a difference that wasn't fully explained by being an American. And I think that that difference that I began to notice was partly how I was regarded because I was Jewish. Now, I wouldn't say that was entirely a negative experience, although it sometimes was.
And what I mean by that was I think I had a naive idea that Jews were sort of known and understood everywhere because that was the environment I grew up in. And when I moved over here, I realized that. People don't really know anything about the Jewish people or Jewish history and, you know, our place in the world. And that's completely fine.
The Jewish population here is very, very small, although in Dublin, I think Jews have played a very significant role in the history of the city. So what I would say is what I first recognized, I had my first experience, let's say, of overt anti-Semitism in Ireland, right? And that was within a few months of arriving here.
And then sort of since then, over the years, you know, what I have noticed is that there is a discourse specifically about Israel that I think bleeds over and affects people who are Jewish, Irish Jews or Jews who live in Ireland. Mm-hmm.
And it's very difficult to disentangle that connection, right, and understand what is specifically about the policies of the country of Israel and what is maybe more embedded in a much deeper and longstanding set of attitudes that Europeans, I would say, have about the Jewish people.
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Chapter 3: How has the perception of Jewish people in Ireland changed since October 2023?
So tell me about life now as a Jewish person in Ireland. I mean, you say in the piece that you worry every time you attend a Jewish community event. Why?
Well, that is something that has been a feature of Jewish life as long as I've been here, although it has intensified in the last two and a half years since the war in Gaza, since the attacks of October 7th and all of the subsequent violence.
The reason is that in a very real sense, and we've seen examples of this all over the world, in Golders Green most recently, but also Bontai Beach or the Manchester synagogue shooting at Yom Kippur last year, is that Jewish people are in actual danger of being victims of violence, of anti-Semitic violence.
And that's something that the community and the GardaĆ here recognize, and they take serious steps forward. protect against. So in my household, the conversations we have before we attend a Jewish event or where we're going to be in an area where lots of Jews are gathered together always involves some consideration of what the security is going to be like at that event, right?
Is it easy to escape from, for instance? Is this something that's appropriate to bring our six-year-old son to? if it's an event for adults, is one of us going to stay home in case something happens so that at least there's one of us who survives?
Like, that sounds melodramatic, but in the context of a sort of regular drumbeat of violence against Jewish communities around the world, I don't think it's completely crazy, although it has been normalized.
It's astonishing that that's how you're having to live your life in the Ireland of today, because there aren't many people who go through that in our democracy.
No, and I think, and I'm not sure how well known it is, but I think if it were happening to another community, right, if there were another community that felt that sense of siege and that they had to take steps to protect themselves in moments where they're visible, I think there would be a sense of moral outrage about it. Mm-hmm.
However, because the Jewish people are connected to Israel, or it is somehow accepted as, well, this is just the price you pay because that country over there is behaving in a way that we find objectionable. And that's the part that's very difficult to deal with, right? Because on the one hand, it's legitimate to criticize Israel as a state acting in the world.
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Chapter 4: What experiences did Jon Ihle have with anti-Semitism in Ireland?
Now, the idea that we'd rename this without ever consulting the Jewish community and find out, well, why are we honoring this person in the first place? What does he mean to you? And then to consider replacing that person's name. I mean, it really felt like such an attack.
It felt like an act of erasure that we want to cram down the history that Irish Jews are proud of because we're angry about how this other country behaves. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. I'm not talking about a march in O'Connell Street that says, stop the killing. Like, fine. That's okay. But this, to me, was much more personalized, the Herzog Park thing.
And I think that's an example of where it has bled over, that the blast radius of anger about Israel has become so wide that... Jewish people who have nothing to do with the decisions being made in Jerusalem are becoming collateral damage.
John, thank you very much for speaking to us. John Isle there from the Sunday Times, Ireland. And if you have a view on what John has had to tell us there, do get in touch this morning. 087 1400 106. That's the WhatsApp number that you need.