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Chapter 1: What trade is discussed at the beginning of the episode?
Oh.
What's up? Welcome to Canucks talk on Sportsnet 650. Jamie Dodd, Thomas Drance here. Drance covers the Canucks for the athletic as well. We are broadcasting live from the Kintec studio. Step strong with orthotics and footwear from Kintec 650. 650 is the Dunbar Lumber text line. What's going on, Drance?
Not much, buddy. Not much. Like, honestly, calm before the storm. We got a trade today, and it was a trade that I think is hard to understand, which is my favorite type.
Hard to understand, and also, like, you don't want to spend the time trying to understand it. Oh, I disagree.
What do you mean? Because it's so inconsequential. Oh, I strongly disagree. Anything that begins to set the market Sure.
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Chapter 2: Why is Gavin McKenna considered a must-draft player?
I think is fascinating, especially at this stage, like early stage of a process, right? The, I think there's a lot to unpack with that trade and we'll do so when we open the whiteboard. Sure. Well, which we're not going to do in this segment, right?
We're going to save the whiteboard for later on.
in the show because with our buddy sammy c a jam-packed that's right that's what we called a jam-packed everyone calls him everyone calls him that coming up today sam cosentino sportsnet prospect analyst is going to join us momentarily here he's a big malhotra guy too by the way so there's a lot of big malhotra guys there are a lot of big malhotra guys including caleb Yes, he's a big guy.
Big fella. Yannick Hansen will join us at 1230. Kevin Woodley at one. Really excited for both of those. And so that means this is a loaded show. It is an absolutely not much alone time. No, very little.
So really, we won't get into the Leafs trade for a long time. There was a goalie involved. We can ask Kevin about it. Sure. There you go. Let's ask Yannick about it, too.
No, I refuse to do that. We'll do the whiteboard at one 30, but right now, as mentioned to joining us on the able auctions hotline, doing a fantastic job covering the draft and NHL prospects for sports net. He is Sam Cosentino. Sam, thanks for doing this. How are you?
Yes. Doing great. Thanks for having me.
So Stanley cup over. And now we're certainly out here. We're all looking ahead to the draft. Is this, are we into officially like the most frenzied busiest time of year for you?
Oh, yeah. It's fantastic, too. I mean, you're getting calls left, right and center and you've got some writing stuff going on. You've got some casual dinners, as one may have experienced over there. To all things to be discussed draft. Yes, it's outstanding. I love it.
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Chapter 3: What are the differences between Caleb Malhotra and Ivar Stenberg?
Sorry, we're like 10 days out from the start of the draft from the first round of the draft next Friday. And I think, you know, at this point, it would be a pretty big surprise to see anyone other than Gavin McKenna go first overall. Beyond that, how much certainty do you feel about how the next two or three picks after first overall are going to play out?
very little that's the best part about this draft right you have players that are so so a couple of things i mean you have players skill-wise who are grouped together pretty evenly then you have two wingers which isn't a premium position as opposed to centers or right shot d so it does add plenty of intrigue to to the draft class what i would say about the mckenna piece of it is i don't think there's a general manager in the national hockey league that has the stones not to take them yeah
I feel very strongly about that. I've said that publicly a number of times and said it again here today. I truly believe that's the case. So what does that mean? It doesn't mean he's going to be a poor player, but it means that that comes with some risk. when I feel that there's a little more certainty in the Stenberg pick.
Now, having said that, you go to number two, and then the McKenna pick is made, you go to number two, and Mike Greer is going to need 68 cell phones and 14 pagers and email and text and whatever else, because I think people are going to be gunning for that spot. And I think the general consensus is, at least I feel very strongly, that they don't need to address the winger position.
And so, you know, someone will bite back and say, well, is it best player available? There is that. But I believe very strongly in Chase Reed, as do some other prognosticators. And so the way I look at it is, for San Jose, if you keep the perfect intersection of of positional need and best player available.
So you can debate with me all day long, you know, McKenna and Sandberg, you can debate with me all day long, adding Malhotra and Reed in there at the premium positions. And we can sit and talk about this literally all night. But when I look at where San Jose is, that's kind of the one thing that they don't really have. I think their forward position is deep and strong up the middle and the wings.
But I think the guy that can do what Chase Reed can do is something that they don't have. And it's not a reach picking him at number two.
Sam, in the event that the San Jose Sharks do as you'd recommend and take Chase Reed too, and the Canucks are staring at a decision of Ivar Stenberg and Caleb Malhotra on the board, would you be critical if they were to lean toward taking the center?
Not in the least. Not in the least. No. No. Does that come with some risks to it based on the family connections? I mean, you guys know Manny better than I do, and I think Manny's the consummate pro, and I feel that way already about Caleb.
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Chapter 4: What factors contribute to Carolina's Stanley Cup success?
And I wouldn't at all be critical of Stenberg. the situation where Caleb joins Manny. Now, the one thing you can say is, and I think this regime is going to be different, but how many coaches have paroled their way through Vancouver in the last five years?
Do you want the actual number?
68. it's as many coaches as there have been years. Yeah.
So, so there you go. So, so the idea is, all right, so you take Caleb, you address the position, you get the best center available and three years from now, for whatever reason, it doesn't work out for Manny. And that's not to say that he's not going to go in there and do a great job, but the coaching shelf life in the NHL, it's way shorter than it ever used to be.
So how would you feel if five years down the road, you missed out on a chance to take the best center available, and all of a sudden his dad wasn't your coach anymore? So I think you have to consider that as well.
With Stenberg versus Malhotra, Yeah. The thing I can't wrap my head around, Sam, is like, you know, I understand the argument for Malhotra's trajectory in the second half, you know, is like a rocket ship. And if it continues, maybe he'll, you know, surpass some of the other players in this class offensively.
But I mean, Stenberg's been destroying, like dominating his peers and even dominating men in the SHL all throughout his teenage years. Whereas Malhotra is sort of
period of time as a standout offensive driver you know that's like a five month period of time as opposed to a guy like Stenberg who's done a year after here since he was 15 at various levels playing up usually against men including you know being a first line winger and better than point per game at the world championships like I really really struggle to wrap my head around leaving that upside on the board
And I get it, and I can appreciate that. So now what I think you have to do is if you're making that selection, you're saying, all right, what's the fallback position here? We take Malhotra. He doesn't produce offense like these pops. you know, in the BCHL in the playoffs last year and going through a really good regular season.
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Chapter 5: How do championship teams value depth in their roster?
I guess my concern would be if it's Pavel Zaka, like if you end up with a Pavel Zaka, you know, it's one thing if you get a Jordan Stahl level 2ABs to... you know, is still dominating matchups at 37. That's another thing, right? And wins a cup, by the way, for the team that drafted him.
It's another if you get a guy like Zaka who, you know, took him six years to become a 50-point, 2-point C, and by that point, or 2AC, 2-line C, and by that point, you'd already traded him for nothing. You know, like you'd already traded him for mid-assets, right? I would just worry that if the floor looks more like that, that scares me.
It does, but I don't see that as his floor.
Mm-hmm.
So that's the eye of the beholder, and that's your scouting. There's too many things in place for me that are already in his game. The fact that he's a leader as a young guy on a team, the fact that he is playing with six or seven other first-round picks and is able to maintain his spot in the first power play, take defensive zone draws, out five on six, out six on five.
All of these things for me, foundationally, are in place to say that that would be his basement. And so, you know, Pavel Zaka level production, I mean, I don't see it. I don't see it. And I think there's a lot of people that feel the same way. I understand the concern and I understand that that would be catastrophic, but I don't feel that way, especially about a guy who's got...
Like I said, checks too many boxes. Size, he's only going to grow. He's probably got room for another 20, 25 pounds on that frame. He's probably going to grow a little bit taller. He's got NHL bloodlines, so he's been around. He's not going to be rattled about being around in a room. He's got defensive acumen in his game already.
He's already really good in the face-off circle and will continue to get better in that regard. So there's so many boxes there that he checks that I just don't see Pavel Zakha as being a comp ever.
Sam, a lot of the conversation about at the top of the draft is focused on the four players we just kind of ran through, right? McKenna, Stenberg, Chase Reed has been heavily linked to San Jose. And then, of course, Caleb Malhotra and the connections here with the Canucks.
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Chapter 6: What insights does Kevin Woodley provide about goaltending?
So, you know, some may have discounted his work. Some may have said, well, others have surpassed them. I still believe Verhoff is very much in that conversation. And again, I always point to the foundational right shot defense that we've seen in the league. Drew Doughty, 100 years a King. John Carlson, 99 out of 100 years of the Washington Capitals.
Kale McCarr, they're going to move heaven and earth to make sure he's a Colorado Avalanche player for life. Aaron Eckblad, Boots drafted him. He didn't go anywhere from Florida. These guys who have size, who have the defensive abilities in their game, but can also provide, at the very least, secondary offense,
they're hugely important foundational pieces and they don't go anywhere because A, they're tough to get in the draft, B, they're way expensive in free agency, and C, next to impossible to acquire and trade. So if you can get that person at that spot early in the draft, you have to go for it. The problem is this just happens to be the wrong year because you have
Albert Smith's lefty, Carson Carl's lefty. You've got Daxon Rudolph, who many people think very highly of. And that group of five defensemen in the top tier is really, really good. Just happens to be that three of them are right shot guys.
Yeah. And with Verhoff, I find it really interesting, Sam, because earlier in the year, I know there was the sense that maybe he could even push for first overall. And now we start to hear questions about his hockey sense, his skating ability. But I also just look at what he did with Victoria last year, how young he was playing for a really, really good program in North Dakota this year.
I mean, he's still 17. He doesn't turn 18 for another few days here. And I find it kind of I look at it. It's like this guy's six foot four. He's a right shot defenseman. He was a beast at 16 in the WHL. He was really effective for a good team at 17 in the NCAA.
And there is a part of me that still wonders, are we all kind of overthinking this too much when we're talking about a top three pick here? Don't disagree with that assessment.
Not one bit. Not one bit. You know, and OK, so say you're San Jose and you're looking at that spot. are you confident enough that he's going to be a PP1 quarterback? Like I think Chase Reed can be, that might be the only difference in the two players. Now for answer, you and I've talked, you might not feel strongly about Reed's ability to handle a PP1 quarterback situation.
So again, if the Vancouver Canucks scouts or the San Jose scouts don't feel that, then obviously you're looking at something a little bit different in terms of where you're placing Reed and Verhoff, but you can't go wrong guys. Like, In my opinion, you can't go wrong with either one. Verhoff has a better track record only because Chase Reed got somehow cut from his USHL team.
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Chapter 7: What are the implications of the Oilers' offseason decisions?
Other than that, we'd be talking about a scoring profile that I think would look somewhat similar.
Yeah. Is there any doubt in your mind, not in terms of how you'd break it down, but in terms of what you're hearing around the business? Like, if a defenseman goes one, is it going to be Chase Reed? Or are there teams that might have different types of opinions on how they stack up those gentlemen?
And potentially, let's focus our teams that might stack them up differently on San Jose in particular.
Yeah. I mean, I just don't see a defenseman going one. Now, if Toronto were in a different situation, if their ownership led by Keith Pelley, and if their management group was brought in to sell a plan of rebuilding, okay, I might see it a little bit differently.
I might see it a little bit differently because I don't know if Gavin McKenna is a play driver per se and that right shot foundational defense and the someone you expect to have for 15 years. So it might be different, but Toronto is not in that mode. They're in a win now mode, you know, call that crazy if you like, or assess it any way you like.
But the fact of the matter is the reason why John Chayka was brought in was was to do exactly that, find ways to work around the system, find some inefficiencies in the system, and go out and try and make this hockey club a winning club like they expected it to be two years ago when they won the division. Personally, I don't necessarily see it that way.
But in the event that where they are, I don't think a defenseman goes one at all. So I don't think that's part of the conversation here, to be honest with you.
In terms of what you're hearing about trade activity in the lead-up to the draft, it's been a long time since a team traded down out of the top five, and yet it's impossible to ignore the dynamics of this class that if you were a team that was in the top five that maybe had a slightly off consensus order, say you're really high on Bjork or you're really high on Rudolph,
that the dynamic might change a little bit this year versus most years. I'm just curious. Do you think there's a higher probability than in most of the years past that we see some activity even as high as the top five picks?
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Chapter 8: How does the coaching stability impact team performance?
And then San Jose sits there and says, all right, well, let's see how this thing's going to play out here. They obviously have a very keen eye on this guy. And so maybe one of my right shot D is going to be available for me at six. And it might not be the guy who has the power play like a Chase Reed. And it might not be a Keaton Verhoff, but it might be Daxon Rudolph.
And I think he is a guy who would be available at six. And that might satisfy what San Jose needs in order to acquire whatever assets they may get for that second overall pick from Calgary.
Sam, really appreciate the time. I know how busy this time of year is, how fun it is as well. And hopefully we can sneak in one more chat before the draft. Thanks for doing this.
Yeah, that'd be great, guys. Thanks a lot for having me.
Thanks, buddy. I love talking about this stuff. Yeah, absolutely.
Best of luck with the next 10 days, my guy. We'll be thinking of you. All right.
Take care, guys. Thanks. Cheers. That is Sam Cosentino, of course, does a fantastic job covering the NHL draft for Sportsnet and will be front and center at the end of next week when the draft does get going. Round one is on Friday next week. Round two is Saturday. We'll have some special coverage for round two. Special coverage! Sorry, I should say rounds two to seven. Day two of the draft.
Are we going to be on air long enough to get to round seven? No, no, no. We certainly aren't, but somebody will be. Okay. But I think we're on for the start of round two. Love that for us in the morning. So, and which is great because the Canucks have the first pick of round two and then they pick 41. So we'll have some, some Canucks related stuff to cover on day two of the draft.
The best part is all the waiting, you know, like when you wait all day, but you're on the clock, like you basically get, you know, not 24 hours, but you certainly get 12 hours on the clock. Right. Right. Which creates a lot of interesting avenues for trade talks and other matters.
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