Wayland Lum has built a leadership career that spans tech giants, global consulting, and top business schools—but his boldest move was walking away from all of it to build something from scratch. Now the founder of Copperbox, he coaches modern leaders through a philosophy that fuses deep psychology, personal courage, and timeless wisdom. In this episode, he shares the moment he chose purpose over prestige, the emotional realities behind true leadership, and why fear and courage are two sides of the same decision. For Gen Xers done with title-chasing and hungry for meaning, this is the episode to come back to—again and again.From Booth to Bold Moves“Would I keep relying on the building, the brand—or bet on myself?”Wayland shares the moment he realized he had to stop playing it safe and walk the walk. The leap from corporate prestige to personal practice was years in the making—and worth it.Coaching Is Not a Shortcut—It’s a Mirror“You push people to become who they could be—not who they think they are.”Wayland reflects on being coached early in his career, and how that shaped his fierce belief in holding leaders to their highest potential.Leadership Isn’t Status—It’s a Torch“Real leadership burns. If you’re not sacrificing, you’re not leading.”Through Copperbox, Wayland trains modern leaders using eight core principles—drawn from nature, history, and human psychology. His goal: transformation, not just transaction.Courage Only Comes After Fear“You don’t get to feel brave without first feeling scared.”He breaks down how the most meaningful leadership moments require discomfort—and how emotions like courage and fear, joy and grief, are always paired.Wisdom Over Hype“Leadership today is louder—but not always deeper.”Wayland’s work is about rewiring leaders to navigate not just business chaos, but emotional complexity. Because modern leadership demands more than charisma—it demands character._________________________Connect with us:Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Wayland Lum --Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.EdTech Leadership Awards 2025 Finalist.15 Million+ All-Time Downloads.80+ Countries Reached Daily.Global Top 3% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>150,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<
Chapter 1: Who is Wayland Lum and what is his leadership journey?
Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is from Austin, Texas, in the United States, Wayland Long. His career in HR has nothing short of remarkable.
Back in college, he studied industrial and organizational psychology. Then after graduation, he worked at some of the biggest and most influential institutions in the world, including the highest valued company of the present day, Nvidia, and a global organizational consulting firm, CoinFerry.
He also spent eight years at Chicago Booth School of Business, helping MBA students shape their career futures. Now, he's in Texas running his own leadership practice. On this show, we'll explore three areas of interest. First, his career evolution from big corporations to consulting to business school and private practice.
Second, the eight principles of modern leadership he creates for his leadership clients. Third, his mission for human and AI coaching partnerships. Let's get started. Wayland, welcome to our show. Finally, I got you on the call with me.
Yeah, no, it's great. Thanks for having me, Vince. I'm looking forward to our conversation.
If my memory serves me right, last time we met in person, it was in London. And last time I went to Texas, it was before COVID for South by Southwest. Time flies, yet I'm happy that we've kept in contact, we've reunited at some point, and now you come to my show to share your wisdom and insights with the audience. Thank you so much. How are you doing?
I'm doing well, Vince. Yeah, it's another balmy day in Austin, Texas. And I'm looking forward to the summer as we chatted about before. So yeah, and also excited to be with you and have a great conversation.
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Chapter 2: What was Wayland Lum's career path before founding Copperbox?
Wei-Lan, let's start with your history. Your career in HR has been nothing short of remarkable. In college, you studied industrial and organizational psychology. Then after graduation, you've worked at some of the biggest and most influential institutions in the world, including the highest value company of the present day, NVIDIA. a global organizational consulting firm, CoinFerry.
You've even spent eight years in Chicago and London, shaping the careers of MBA students at the top one business school, Chicago Booth. Now you're in Texas running your own leadership practice. Can you walk us through your career evolution?
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Vince. So I think early on, going back to undergrad, I knew early on that I had a desire to meld the disciplines of psychology and business. And so it was a very easy choice for me to study industrial organizational psychology. I did that at San Jose State, go Spartans.
And from that experience launched my career into HR, which got me close to talent, organizational talent, first in Silicon Valley and high tech, and then more broadly across to New York and then other parts of the country as well. And I would say against the thing that has been a prevailing theme in my career is how to work with and provide value to the best talent in the world.
And so if you look at my career trajectory, it's really been a journey and a sort of quest, if you will, to find who those individuals are or those groups of people and be able to work closely with them to really help them to develop their maximum potential and become the now the folk that I have now, the leaders that they are meant to become.
And by doing so, we know that the world is more positively impacted and becomes a better place.
Here's what I find truly admiring and courageous of you. You've taken the leap from these large, prestigious organizations to running your own leadership practice. Many people will shine away from that, taking to their comfort zone the stable paycheck and the prestige of a big corporate name and a nice business card. But you did not.
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Chapter 3: Why did Wayland Lum leave prestigious organizations to start his own practice?
What was the critical aha moment that led you down this path of building your own practice? Was there a specific experience that made you think, this is it. I just need to do this. And once you made that decision, how did the transition actually play out?
Yeah, so the decision was really many years in the making and it really started, Vince, as I coach a lot of the leaders that I work with and understand more about them, it really does start with early formative experiences, right? Growing up when I was thinking about career and stuff, I actually thought I was going to be an artist. Like my dad, he was a graphic artist.
I enjoyed oil painting, using Prismacolor, drawing, et cetera. And that creativity has always stayed with me. And then when I moved into business psychology, industrial organizational psychology, that creativity and wanting to innovate really manifested itself in now this new area of interest for me that became my career. And so I always had that. And when I was at these larger organizations,
I felt that I wasn't fully able to express that sort of creativity and maybe perhaps fully work with leaders in the way that I wanted, which would be much deeper, more transformational and really wanting them to make significant changes in terms of who they were and then in turn make changes in who they were as leaders. One thing that I often coach my clients on
And indeed, as coaches and consultants, particularly as coaches and leaders, we've got to walk our talk. And so we cannot simply be coaching other leaders on what they may need to do and how they need to change. But we also need to step into our own change ourselves and be held accountable for that.
And so I'd often coach my leaders to be bold, courageous in their decision making, to really go with their intuition, follow their heart, and really step out into the directions in which they believe they need to go. And when it came down to the fundamental question I asked myself was, Wei, are you going to stay within a large organization, rely on the reputation of this firm, the resources?
The beautiful steel and glass building that you walk into every day and with all the nice facilities and the office environment that you have privilege of having access to? Or are you going to go step out and bet on yourself? And when I framed the question like that, Vince, the answer became very clear.
I had to go step out and bet on myself as I would have coached and encouraged my leaders that I work with to do. And I can say that I have not regretted a single moment. It's been absolutely amazing.
I am 200% agreeable with your choice in walking the walk and talking the talk. In a world where a lot of people just talk, a lot of times they will talk very, very loud without much substance at all. Walking the walk and talking the talk becomes very precious and courageous. Unfortunately, it is also something that is silenced by the noise in the world, but that's what makes a true leader.
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Chapter 4: How did coaching influence Wayland Lum's approach to leadership?
And that's probably understandable given I was much younger and didn't have the experience and the tools and I would say even the life experience that I have now. However, that experience of working with him has influenced the way that I develop others. And so I'm always pushing them to be more than what they've envisioned themselves being at this point in time.
And I do that with my team and certainly do that with the client leaders that I work with as well. And what I found is that when you have that expectation of people
more often than not they're able to rise to the occasion and they will become more than they have thought possible and that's really awesome to see i think in terms of coaching area how they recommend that to anybody and and whatever sort of aspect of your life that you might want coaching for i do encourage you to explore that of course you need to find the right person the right fit um but i found it for myself to be tremendously rewarding
I still work with some business coaches here and there to help me with thought partnership and just being a good counterpoint or a good thought partner as I think about growing my own business and also how I am leading others.
on your LinkedIn profile, you have this statement. We develop modern leaders to face the biggest business challenges. Speaking of leaders, who are the people you typically work with? Can you paint a picture for our listeners of the kinds of leaders you coach?
Yeah, absolutely. And that statement, talking about walking the talk event, we develop modern leaders to face their biggest challenges. That is really a derivation also of what the vision of Copperbox is, which is to prepare leaders to confront and address the greatest challenges of our time. And that is both our vision, it's also an aspirational goal that we have for our firm.
And it goes beyond the realm of business and into areas such as government policy, certainly large, big problems that the world faces, such as climate change and misinformation, loneliness, et cetera. And so that's our aspiration. Now, how do we do that in more sort of purposeful and day to day terms is through our work with business leaders.
And so one area that we are very focused on and do a lot of work in is private equity and supporting private equity operating companies and their executives. As we know, private equity moves at a very fast pace. Firms have investment theses that they need to achieve and fulfill, and they do that through the talent that they have at their portfolio companies.
A lot of our work is really helping those leaders to quickly identify The areas of their leadership that need to be, the gaps need to be quickly closed and to really partner with them closely at pace in order to do that. And when I mean at pace, I really mean on a quarter by quarter basis, which is the cadence of business in general.
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Chapter 5: What types of leaders does Wayland Lum work with today?
oh i'm into i'm interacting with this individual or this group but really understanding that individual and that group within the context of a system and more timeless principles about how individuals and groups operate yes your eight principles of modern leadership i read them all before our call today i'm so impressed
For example, one of those is nature as majestic teacher. You're right. Nature serves as a timeless source of wisdom. Wisdom is both ancient and modern. Here's another one. Embrace life's stages and seasons. Every person is born, lives, and dies. We have seasons in life. Spring, summer, fall and winter. On this show, unfortunately, we can't go through all of those principles in details.
But could we explore those a bit? Maybe you could share some real-world examples or stories that illustrate them that you use to help your clients become a modern leader to face, to embrace, and to master the biggest challenges.
Yeah, absolutely, Vince. So the eight principles are our perspective, our copper box, our ethos, if you will, about how we think about modern leadership. So at the end of the day, you must help business leaders achieve their outcomes. And so that is first and foremost. And that being said... Working with them is an opportunity to go for transformational change for the leader.
And we know that when they achieve transformational change, when they become stronger leaders, not only in work, but also in different aspects of their life, there is a much more powerful cascading benefit and impact that is much more far-reaching. And that's what we want to help them achieve.
And so when we think about the eight principles, we have that in mind, that it's not simply about business outcomes, but we are confident that when we help leaders to become more modern, to achieve transformation, inevitably, that is going to have great impact on the businesses that they lead and they run.
So when we think about the eight principles, first, it really, it does start with getting grounded in core purpose. And there's a lot of talk about purpose. There's a lot of talk about finding your purpose or finding your why. And in essence, it is where everything starts.
Core purpose is understanding both your deeply held values, how you move in the world, what's important to you, what you'll put a stake in the ground for. It's also about the values and gifts that you bring to the world and that you want to use. We call them your superpowers. And the combination of your values and your gifts are very powerful.
And when you are able to combine both of those and then channel that into your purpose, you really do become unstoppable. So I've seen that in my own life, being able to have the renewed energy to really drive my business and to have the impact on leaders. But I also see that in the lives of others, both my team members and also our clients.
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