Vince Chan

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'll be chatting with Steve Monahan.

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Just how inspiring is he? Stay tuned for the next 30 minutes and you'll find out. Good morning, Steve.

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Why do you think the younger people don't know how to ask relevant or right questions as opposed to the older members of the team?

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They really bring a hands-on perspective to the table. These employees have been in the trenches, experiencing the pain points of the workflows long before technology was introduced. They've lived through the problems, which means they are uniquely positioned to see where technology can solve issues or where processes might actually benefit from a more human touch.

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This blend of human insight and technology leads to a more seamless integration. What I would call a true artificial intelligence where it's not just tech, but a smart combination of machine and human working together.

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#285 Steve Monaghan: The Advantage of Age in the Age of AI

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AI is always a big topic. But let's switch gears to talk about your next big thing. You've mentioned to me that you're working on something really, really interesting and meaningful. Groundbreaking, if I can use this word. Tell us more.

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#285 Steve Monaghan: The Advantage of Age in the Age of AI

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That sounds exciting. I can't wait to see the progress. It's bound to have a huge and tremendous economic and social impact. When you're ready, let me know and I'll send in my resume, okay? Now, you mentioned you are deeply involved in both executing and investing in this project. This brings me to another critical issue many entrepreneurs face, mental wellness.

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Could you share your observations or experiences with your investees on how they manage their mental wellness How do you support them through the ups and downs?

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#285 Steve Monaghan: The Advantage of Age in the Age of AI

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Some investors might be less understanding when it comes to situations like this, but you seem more open and empathetic. Perhaps that's because of your diverse experiences in different roles and capacities.

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There's a common notion among entrepreneurs that discussing mental health issues openly with investors, co-founders, or even team members might shake their confidence in your leadership or influence their investment decisions. From your diverse perspective as an entrepreneur, as an investor, as an innovator in big corporations, how do you handle this?

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How do you address the stigma or reservations that some might have about mental health in a high-pressure environment of startups?

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#285 Steve Monaghan: The Advantage of Age in the Age of AI

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There's a really important point to emphasize. Mental health issues are not exclusive to entrepreneurs. they affect anyone, from entrepreneurs to employees to CEOs. I've personally faced mental health challenges three times myself, with two of those occurring during my time in corporate roles. It's something many of us might encounter regardless of our positions.

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#285 Steve Monaghan: The Advantage of Age in the Age of AI

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Absolutely. Before we wrap up this conversation on mental health, in particular concerning entrepreneurs, what advice would you give to them or even to those who want to support other entrepreneurs with their mental wellness? What are some possible solutions you see? Perhaps some solutions might be tech-driven. What others could be more about creating supportive communities or programs?

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How can we help entrepreneurs not just move forward, but also regain their confidence to become more resilient, allowing them to fully leverage the brilliance, confidence, resilience, and brilliance, a perfect formula for entrepreneurs.

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#285 Steve Monaghan: The Advantage of Age in the Age of AI

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Wow, it's fascinating to hear how your career journey has evolved, particularly how you've navigated from aviation to technology, software, and hardware, then deeper into various sectors of finance and entrepreneurship across different regions and countries. What's the core motivation that keeps you moving forward, especially in taking on vicious projects?

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I first met Steve back around 2015 or 2016 in Hong Kong when he was the regional director at AIA, one of the leading insurance groups in the Asia Pacific. He was running a unique health technology accelerator at the time. Later, I invited him to be a venture coach and judge for the University of Chicago's first-ever Global New Venture Challenge, hosted right here in Hong Kong.

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Your personal website kicks off with a bold statement, learning the foundation for sustainable competitive advantage. He also openly mentioned, I've succeeded and I've failed always learning. Could you share with us some candid insights about times when things didn't go as planned?

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Specifically, could you tell us about what you've learned from these setbacks and failures in your career and innovation projects?

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#285 Steve Monaghan: The Advantage of Age in the Age of AI

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You've really lived and worked all over the globe. Singapore, India, Saudi Arabia, Hong Kong, Silicon Valley, and now Japan. Everywhere you've been, you've been the outsider. How do you think this foreigner identity has shaped your approach as a leader driving change?

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It's really insightful to hear how you've managed to change and overcome resistance in your roles. Could you elaborate on how you've tackled the challenge of people's natural fear of change in your work? In particular, when introducing new technologies or business models, how have you transformed a simple no? into know, knowledge, and acceptance. And what role did learning play in this process?

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Since then, he's moved to Tokyo. We've called up a few times, both in Japan and back in Hong Kong. To me, Steve embodies authenticity. He is consistently successful and resilient in the face of setbacks, largely because, I believe, he is always true to himself. He walks the walk and talks the talk. A real leader and an incredibly inspiring speaker. How could I not invite him to the podcast then?

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#285 Steve Monaghan: The Advantage of Age in the Age of AI

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The motto of a podcast is make your laws of change. Steve has shared his own laws of change on his website, which I'll link in the show notes to those interested. He outlines three core principles. First, that change is always met with opposition. Second, that implementing change requires a forceful effort And third, that the larger the organization, the greater the force needed to enact change.

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These principles aren't just relevant to organizational shifts. They apply to personal transformations too, such as career changes, something many of us are facing today. Take the first principle, change is always opposed If you are in a stable job with a decent income, why risk what you have for the uncertainty of change? The second principle states that change requires force.

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Whether it's due to layoffs or needing to relocate, the push and pull factors must be compelling enough to drive the change. Finally, similar to large organizations needing greater force to change, the higher you are in your career, the more you have a stake, and the stronger the impetus needed to push you through a transition.

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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This is pretty rude, in fact, because there's an art of building relationship, being immersed in a community, but being yourself at the same time. And lastly, when it comes to learning, Very easy to learn anything these days, any skills very quickly, but a lot of those are technical skills or tool skills. You just learn to use a certain tool. Those skills, I must say, they are commodities.

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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Anyone can do it these days. Being commodity meaning that it has a very low value. AI can do a lot of those now. So when it comes to learning, learn the skills that you can own it, you can evolve with those. And those skills in the good old days, we call those soft skills.

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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But going forward, those will become the premium hard skills, resilience, critical reasoning, analytical skills, and even AI can do a lot of computation faster. But when it comes to you making observation and figure things out with the help of technology, building relationship, business relationship, and life relationship, career relationships, networking, so to speak, which is an abuse term.

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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But when it comes to managing your life, your career, changes, direction, the way forward, while the risk factors are identifiable, a lot of them are not quantifiable. That creates a lot of anxiety, fear, unknown. Hence, some people just they put don't change at all.

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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It's all about the human skills. So focus on the human skills that you can embrace, but also own it to yourself. That would become your own signature, your own brand. In the last part of our interview, I asked Katie about her book recommendation, about her learning habits and her learning process. She said she got three pillars of learning. What are those three pillars? You may wonder.

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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Well, let's find out.

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Last time, I was talking to an old friend from Yale, Katrina Curry, or as many know her as Katie.

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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In a social media era, we tend to talk so much. It's always one-way communication. We type, we share, we post. We never answer, never respond. Then the whole communication cycle becomes worse and worse. It's about listening that we lack and we miss. Without listening, there won't be communication.

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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Without communication, there won't be relationship building, let alone choosing, building, joining, and enjoying the beauty of being in a community. Going back to one of your points about reflection, I can't agree with you more. That's the ability to consolidate. I call this a solitude moment. I know we talk a lot about epidemic of loneliness.

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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Now, loneliness, when this is overwhelming, is hurtful. But a good degree of being alone solitude moment is healthy i do the same for myself a lot of times in fact i try not to speak i try not to contact or get contacted by a lot of people i need the time to reflect on what's going on now how can i do it better to learn about myself and to move forward stronger and better

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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Well, yeah, we cover so much, yet we still have other things. I definitely love to ask you more.

Chief Change Officer

#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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I will. I will. I will certainly say. Once we finish one season, for the next season, I would like to ask you and please come over. In fact, I even already have speakers say, yes, I will come every season. So at least I signed them up for four times already for the whole year.

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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In the future, to have part two, part three, part four about your experience with business process transformation, the so-called less glamorous, but also very essential part of innovation. Parenting is another angle that we can cover.

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard. Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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In this episode, we are switching gear, moving from her own career life and changes onto the changes we are going to see in the work market, in particular about Gen Z. According to World Economic Forum, by year 2025, about a quarter of our workforce will be Gen Z. So this is a force that we will reckon with. Katie is a mother of two. She got two Gen Z children.

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At work, she's managing a workforce, spending across different generations. So what's her take on working with leading and motivating the younger generations at work? She's also going to share a couple of career tips for the younger generation to thrive in this era of change. And later, we'll take a sneak peek into Katie's personal learning habits and her book recommendation. So stick around.

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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Let's get started. Katie, you and I are Gen X, but this era is a multi-generational workforce era. And you're a mother of two. In raising two young children, what have you learned from this personal experience and applied to working with and managing a younger workforce?

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Over the years, I've helped Generation X, Y, Z with their different career and life issues. Sometimes, like you said, they're all humans, regardless of age and generations. Each generation, to be honest, has their own challenges and issues. I wouldn't say Gen X, like us, we don't value or appreciate meritocracy versus Gen Z values more or vice versa.

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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Now, since you have a lot of experience at home and at work, working with and growing up with Gen Z, give them a couple of advice.

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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career-wise, or the flip side of this question, in fact, would be in light of the rise of this generation in the workforce, where the challenges you see hence your advice to them, how can they make the best out of the whole situation and make the impact they want for people around them, for the world, and for themselves?

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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She did, and many more things she has achieved since she made that move from Bulgaria to United States. Like me and a lot of people with strong finance background, we always talk about risk, the upside risk, downside risk, the risk tolerance, the risk appetite. How can we maximize return, minimize risks?

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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First of all, superpower. Keep learning. Second of all, humility. Choose the right one for you. Choose to be associated with people you want to be associated with. Third, the ability to pivot, the ability to handle change. This podcast is called Chief Change Officer. Of course, I believe in change. I myself, as I said, right now, going through the 18th change in my career and life.

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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I believe that everyone, regardless of your age, your gender, your culture, your background, your generation, wherever you are, whatever you do, you have the ability to change and change for good. For yourself, a new job, new career, new direction. For your communities, for the people around you, and for the world, whatever you're trying to do for the world. So yes, change. The ability to change.

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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One thing I like to add to this point is some people mistake change as private. And I found some people take it so lightly. It becomes a careless act of change as opposed to be a thoughtful strategy of making things better for you and for the people you care to impact positively. So the word privet and change, I like to draw the attention of the audience. Privet is easy.

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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Today you want to do this, next day you want to do that. Technology allows us to do it in a very, very cost-effective manner in whatever we want to pursue. But if you care enough about your life and career direction or the impact you care to make, You need to be thoughtful about why you do this today and change tomorrow. Why can't you stick around longer?

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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Build up the credential, the track record, the relationship or the network that a lot of people like to say, or the community before you quite quit. Change takes commitment. Change is more strategic. That brings us to the second point. Katie mentioned about community, for you to be part of a community, when it comes to building relationship, once again, it takes commitment.

Chief Change Officer

#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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Today's technology, we can be connected with anyone, everyone. Send an ad request, people say yes within seconds, but this is not a community, let alone having any kind of friendship or relationship. I care myself so much about community or being associated with people I wanted to be associated with or want to learn from.

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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Hence, more than 20 years ago, I chose to give up two years of my life and went for an MBA degree because I want to be associated with all the smart people, all the energetic people. One of them is Katie. After 20-some years, when I reached out to her for this interview invitation, she said yes right away. That is not only the power of community on day one.

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#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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That's the power of community with exponential power to 20 years later. That's the longevity of a community, a relationship, which I think we lack in this era, thanks to social media. So the ability to keep up with your community, to keep up with the relationship, or to make friends, that's not something a social media or any kind of technology can replace and can teach you.

Chief Change Officer

#284 Katie Curry: Mentoring Gen Z Without Losing Your Gen X Soul

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Social media is antisocial. So one has to learn how to make friends, how to pick friends, pick the right community that you can evolve within it, that you can keep up with, and they can keep up with you. If the community isn't right for you, how you move on, you don't have to unblock or block someone.

Chief Change Officer

#137 Jason Bloomfield: Leading the Transformation of 19th-Century Giants into 21st-Century Icons

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caused by his parents' separation in the U.S., to his multiple roles across different long-standing urbanizations, resolving conflicts, bridging gaps, and aligning interests through M&A integration, tech disruption, and cultural alignment. You'll hear stories and examples straight from Jason's first-hand experiences. Get ready to hear how Jason has navigated change and made it work.

Chief Change Officer

#137 Jason Bloomfield: Leading the Transformation of 19th-Century Giants into 21st-Century Icons

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In your experience working in large organizations with such a long history and deep-rooted traditions, how do you introduce modern concepts and actions and get buy-in? How do you turn things around in an environment where values, policies, and even mindsets so entrenched? How do you successfully blend modernism into that kind of setting?

Chief Change Officer

#137 Jason Bloomfield: Leading the Transformation of 19th-Century Giants into 21st-Century Icons

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Among all these organizations you've been with so far, in financial services, in telecom, your current role is with Ericsson in the UK. Tell us about your current mandate.

Chief Change Officer

#137 Jason Bloomfield: Leading the Transformation of 19th-Century Giants into 21st-Century Icons

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Good morning, Jason. Welcome to our show.

Chief Change Officer

#137 Jason Bloomfield: Leading the Transformation of 19th-Century Giants into 21st-Century Icons

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You are in the transformation function. It seems obvious that AI is one of the biggest forces driving change in human organizations today. What is your take on the strategy and approach leaders, people, workers should be adopting when it comes to AI?

Chief Change Officer

#137 Jason Bloomfield: Leading the Transformation of 19th-Century Giants into 21st-Century Icons

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Yes, football versus soccer.

Chief Change Officer

#137 Jason Bloomfield: Leading the Transformation of 19th-Century Giants into 21st-Century Icons

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While you are now based in the U.K., Tell us a bit about your experience growing up in New York. What was it like for you as a kid? And what kind of things were you into back then?

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Thank you so much for your time, Jason.

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#137 Jason Bloomfield: Leading the Transformation of 19th-Century Giants into 21st-Century Icons

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So in your early years, you experienced what I call a major disruption beyond your control. While you mentioned that, in hindsight, you can appreciate how it helped you become more resilient to change and gave you a deeper appreciation for life. I'm curious, how did you manage to help yourself and your siblings settle down and rebuild everything from the ground up?

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They come with business purposes and goals, eager to share their ideas on books, practices, and venture ideas. I talk to each and every one of them taking it as an opportunity to make a new friend, get educated, and be inspired. But in this episode, the guest Jason Bloomfield came to me out of the blue one day. He isn't a book author, leadership coach, business consultant, or venture founder.

Chief Change Officer

#137 Jason Bloomfield: Leading the Transformation of 19th-Century Giants into 21st-Century Icons

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You've mentioned the word resilience quite a bit. First, in relation to your personal life and your parents' divorce. And second, regarding the M&A integration you were involved in. Now, with corporate restructuring, M&As, and costs cutting all around us, I'm curious, looking back at your early days, where you were driving M&As, integration, and navigating conflicts,

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#137 Jason Bloomfield: Leading the Transformation of 19th-Century Giants into 21st-Century Icons

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How has those early challenges helped you become more successful or perhaps, as you put it, more resilient in guiding your team, your organization through its own transformation?

Chief Change Officer

#137 Jason Bloomfield: Leading the Transformation of 19th-Century Giants into 21st-Century Icons

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. I got approached by book authors, leadership coaches, business consultants, and venture founders quite often.

Chief Change Officer

#137 Jason Bloomfield: Leading the Transformation of 19th-Century Giants into 21st-Century Icons

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He is a change maker in organizational transformation. When I asked Jason why he wanted to be on my show, his response was, it's about giving back. Vince, you're also giving back by setting up and running the show. I'm just joining you in the effort. Take this episode as a love letter from Jason to you on how to navigate personal and organizational change. From the disruption in his life,

Chief Change Officer

#354 Tin Pei Ling: What It Takes to Be Singapore’s Youngest Member of Parliament

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They may not say it in my face, but I can feel that they have their own, in quotation, reservation. I can relate to when you say it, but then in my situation, I have one less worry, which is social media. Your political career actually started around a time that this social media thing

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#354 Tin Pei Ling: What It Takes to Be Singapore’s Youngest Member of Parliament

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got more and more popular so promise what you got a lot of comments responses like every day every second so that is the kind of pressure that a regular human cannot just simply ignore it you have to kind of deal with it and judge what is relevant what's not relevant and what is actually noise what is actually a sincere comment i guess you learn the lessons along your way

Chief Change Officer

#354 Tin Pei Ling: What It Takes to Be Singapore’s Youngest Member of Parliament

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Pei Ling and I were part of a six-person committee organizing all sorts of special activities and graduation events. We spent time inside and outside the classroom in Singapore as well as in Chicago. Over the last 10 years, as a classmate, as an alum, as a friend, I've observed her growth. In my eyes, Pei Ling is someone who embodies the core essence of change.

Chief Change Officer

#354 Tin Pei Ling: What It Takes to Be Singapore’s Youngest Member of Parliament

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I can definitely see this scene. Going back to some of the story you just shared, I guess over time, you change people's heart through your actions. Actions speak louder than words. As a public figure, you can, of course, spend your time responding to every single comment. That obviously is a waste of time because a lot of comments may not be relevant.

Chief Change Officer

#354 Tin Pei Ling: What It Takes to Be Singapore’s Youngest Member of Parliament

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At the same time, silence is golden or I would say silence is equivalent to absence of noise. So if there's so much noise, you just learn to recognize what is noise, what is helpful to you and how you respond and how you respond sometimes with words, sometimes through actions. Time would give you the benefit of doubt. Eventually you grow and people see it.

Chief Change Officer

#354 Tin Pei Ling: What It Takes to Be Singapore’s Youngest Member of Parliament

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Speaking of change, I've made my fair share, 18 to be exact. One major moment was back in 2013 when I was 40 years old.

Chief Change Officer

#354 Tin Pei Ling: What It Takes to Be Singapore’s Youngest Member of Parliament

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That's the message you try to send to the world through the growth of your career.

Chief Change Officer

#354 Tin Pei Ling: What It Takes to Be Singapore’s Youngest Member of Parliament

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#354 Tin Pei Ling: What It Takes to Be Singapore’s Youngest Member of Parliament

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All the things I've mentioned earlier. Her story is a powerful reminder of what it means to own the change, to face the pain, and to emerge more resilient on the other side. In this episode, Pei Ling is going to share her incredible journey from psychology to politics. Why did she give up on pursuing clinical psychology?

Chief Change Officer

#354 Tin Pei Ling: What It Takes to Be Singapore’s Youngest Member of Parliament

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The year 2011 was a life-changing year for her, but in her own words, it was also the darkest period in her life. Facing in-person and social media attacks, dealing with biases relating to our age and gender. More importantly, how did she navigate through those challenges, make peace with them, and take control of her life post-election? Becoming the chief change officer of her own story?

Chief Change Officer

#354 Tin Pei Ling: What It Takes to Be Singapore’s Youngest Member of Parliament

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Let's dive in and find out.

Chief Change Officer

#354 Tin Pei Ling: What It Takes to Be Singapore’s Youngest Member of Parliament

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Before you got into politics, you were in psychology. Why did you give up on that?

Chief Change Officer

#354 Tin Pei Ling: What It Takes to Be Singapore’s Youngest Member of Parliament

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So you got into business consulting. Sounds like a good first job in your life. Yes. But then, what happened when you decided to get into politics?

Chief Change Officer

#354 Tin Pei Ling: What It Takes to Be Singapore’s Youngest Member of Parliament

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Would you say the move into politics was a big move for you? And you were a student in psychology. So let me flip the table to ask you about your own psychology. How did you feel about this change?

Chief Change Officer

#354 Tin Pei Ling: What It Takes to Be Singapore’s Youngest Member of Parliament

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I turned down a promising government job to take a leap of faith. I published my first book and joined Chicago Booth for my second MBA. That's where I met Pei Ling. our class had a meaningful mix of personalities. Pei Ling was among the youngest in our class. I was one of the most experienced.

Chief Change Officer

#354 Tin Pei Ling: What It Takes to Be Singapore’s Youngest Member of Parliament

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You're always on call.

Chief Change Officer

#354 Tin Pei Ling: What It Takes to Be Singapore’s Youngest Member of Parliament

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You touched upon a bit about great election and after you being the youngest, also being a woman. So when you look back about your experience, how did you try to make peace with them, but at the same time, overcome these issues in order to do your job, also to take good care of your own mental health?

Chief Change Officer

#354 Tin Pei Ling: What It Takes to Be Singapore’s Youngest Member of Parliament

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But by then, I already have over 15 years of work experiences in the business world and a seasoned MBA graduate from Yale. Yet, we all came together to be part of something special and monumental. We are the legacy class graduating in Singapore in the history of Chicago Booth, which was prepared to move its campus to Hong Kong.

Chief Change Officer

#354 Tin Pei Ling: What It Takes to Be Singapore’s Youngest Member of Parliament

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In today's world, if you look at ageism at workplace, many media focus on so-called the older end of the population spectrum. Especially when you talk about like tech company innovation, over 40 or 50. According to a lot of media, these more mature, more experienced or so-called older people, they are less tech savvy. Now that is one narrative.

Chief Change Officer

#354 Tin Pei Ling: What It Takes to Be Singapore’s Youngest Member of Parliament

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But I always believe that ageism is not limited to the mature people. It's for the so-called younger, which you just share your story with me. I recall in my days when I worked in finance in some of the biggest firms in the world. Men dominated, white guys, I'm being the Asian, I work overseas, I'm 20-something or early 30s.

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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Join me as I chat with Fatou Zegna So, a remarkable individual I had the pleasure of studying together during our executive MBA classes in London and in Singapore with Chicago Booth. She has since moved from the well-established legal profession to economic development, technical advisory and youth entrepreneurship in Senegal. In her own words, she aims not just to succeed, but to create magic.

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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Wow. It sounds like a dream come true for you. Well, but to be honest, in life, in career, when we are in the process of making changes, whatever those are, it's not an on-off switch. It's never perfect. In one of our episodes, in fact, the first episode, I interview our classmate Pei Ling, who is a parliamentarian in Singapore.

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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Now, she won the battle, won the election, but she admits that during that period of time, the campaigning or even post-campaigning, it was the darkest period in her life. She overcame it, but it's a process. So in your case, tell us honestly, have you ever felt any moment of regret or discouragement or depression or difficulties, any sort of those? And how did you make through it?

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Imagine this, you are in Paris, the city of lights, where you were born and raised.

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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Of course, you build a lot of credentials, reputation in the political circle, which is important, which is an asset, which is a capital. And now you are playing a consultant role I'm curious to know about in your country now, what are some of the issues, challenges or opportunities you try to overcome for the country as a consultant?

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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What drives a person to embrace such profound change? How does a lawyer used to practicing set laws becoming a chief change officer, making her own laws of change for careers, for communities, and for societies? Fatou is going to tell her own story.

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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You mentioned about building an entrepreneurship ecosystem for the young people in Senegal. Most problem.

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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Well, you're linking cultures, you're linking talents, you're linking skills, you're linking experiences. For the benefits of Africa.

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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yeah yeah before covid i was involved in the education technology space among all the countries in the world one of those excitement actually happened in africa a lot of young talent they all pray for more education newer skills if we think of it as we are economists basically there's a huge workforce

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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that yet to be tapped into and that would be a huge productivity growth if you can make the best use of the talent pool in that region. So I can't wait enough to hear more stories, more success stories from you about linking Europeans with Africans and possibly even other parts of the world to create that kind of magic.

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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So first start with France and then Wendatco, right? And so there would be other countries.

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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I'm so glad you agreed to come on board. Well, it's been how many years? Last time I saw you in Singapore, is that right?

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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So I'm sure when I invite you back next time for an interview, you'll say, well, Vince, well, it's not just France. Now I got another 10 countries or 20 countries. I won't be shocked to hear that. I've occupied your airtime for long. I do...

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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want to say thank you so much for sharing and i will of course like to invite you back to hear more of those magic magical stories you're trying to create but we'll save it for next time we'll build the momentum so that we'll have the part two well thank you so much i loved it very much talking

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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Well, I would say as a conclusion, you study law, you study all kinds of law books, you memorize all the rules and stuff, but now you are making your own playbook, your own law book for change, for magic. This program, this show is about making changes, making your own laws of change. You are truly a role model of creating your own law book, your own playbook.

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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I'm really glad that I invited you in the very first place and really appreciate your time. I would encourage you since you're reaching out to different people, what you share here, I'll release it as an episode. You should also share this link to your counterparts. I will. I think they would care to know about your motivation. You as a founder story.

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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I mean, why for two years doing this and then they listen to this. Oh, I know why you make this big commitment moving from France from a stable job to a position of stability to a position of challenge or creating magic. I think they will be touched. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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Yeah. So you moved from where you were born and raised Back to your root, your origin in Africa. Now, before we go deep into the Africa situation, what actually moved you to take this leap of faith from legal profession in banking back to your root? There must be a lot of thought going on, a lot of debate, perhaps, in your mind and among your family members. What happened then?

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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Picture yourself as a highly skilled in-house counsel at one of the world's largest banking groups, overseeing a team of 50 and spearheading billion-dollar financial transactions. Life isn't just good. It's picture perfect. Now, what if I challenged you to leave it all behind?

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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I think I did well. Sounds like it was a calculated decision. It wasn't a spur of the moment thing. You were prudent enough to plan ahead. Now you move in the year 2016. Now it's 2024, eight years. You've explored opportunities. You experienced new life. Now, I was wondering... What one thing, what that one thing is that motivate you if I have to ask you to come up with one word?

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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Would you say identity? I sense that for you, born and raised in the developed economy, France, Paris, legal profession, stability, that is part of your identity. But you have the other piece of you which lies in your root, in your origin. You identify with it. You resonate with it. You see a lot of things going on. You really want to do something about it. I think identity is your calling.

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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Would you agree? Yeah.

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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What if I invited you to move with your whole family to Senegal, a vibrant country in West Africa, once a French colony, to start afresh? Would you take the leap? For many, the answer would be a no. But today's guest isn't just anyone.

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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Yeah, you are setting up a role model for your children. They see you in action. They see that, oh, my mother Making a move. I mean, honestly, a lot of things I'm sure going on in your life in Africa. And they are there with you. They see a lot of things which they most likely won't see in France. Yes, after they grow up, they can move back to France or move to other countries to be adventurous.

Chief Change Officer

#353 Fatou Sagna Sow: From French Banking to Building Africa’s Next Generation

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to do whatever they want to do to create impact for themselves as well as for other people because that's what my mother has done for Africa, for many other countries. So now, let's spend the rest of our time on Africa. Tell us about your time as a technical advisor. What did you see? What have you done? What challenges were you facing at that point?

Chief Change Officer

#352 Wayne Turmel: Leading Without Micromanaging in the Hybrid Mess

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So how can Wang and his team provide solutions as remote and hybrid work models continue to change shape? Let's find out.

Chief Change Officer

#352 Wayne Turmel: Leading Without Micromanaging in the Hybrid Mess

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This interview feels super timely, especially with Amazon CEO announcing that starting in 2025, Corporate staff will return to a five-day work week. There's been a lot of fuss around this. So far, the reaction has been mostly negative. Some people say it's the end of remote work. Others say they will quit over it. What's your personal take on this?

Chief Change Officer

#352 Wayne Turmel: Leading Without Micromanaging in the Hybrid Mess

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#352 Wayne Turmel: Leading Without Micromanaging in the Hybrid Mess

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Or let's imagine if Amazon invited you to help with this transition, how would you apply your leadership models to this situation? Maybe you can give us a quick overview of your models and how they could fit into Amazon's latest development?

Chief Change Officer

#352 Wayne Turmel: Leading Without Micromanaging in the Hybrid Mess

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This is really exciting, Vince. Wayne, let's start with a bit of your background. How does your past experiences make you the perfect fit to write several books about long-distance leadership and communication for leaders?

Chief Change Officer

#352 Wayne Turmel: Leading Without Micromanaging in the Hybrid Mess

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Here's my personal experience. Except for the first few years of my corporate life, most of my career has involved a good degree of remote or hybrid work. I've worked with colleagues and supervisors scattered across different locations. So I got used to working with people across time zones, staying up late or waking up early to make it work.

Chief Change Officer

#352 Wayne Turmel: Leading Without Micromanaging in the Hybrid Mess

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I've also experienced the evolution of technology from working without a BlackBerry, then with a BlackBerry, and later moving on to other devices. now as an entrepreneur to work with people from all over. I've noticed that in the US, remote work has become a very contentious issue. Whereas here in Asia or in Hong Kong is a different story. Hong Kong is a dense, highly populated city.

Chief Change Officer

#352 Wayne Turmel: Leading Without Micromanaging in the Hybrid Mess

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And the concept of remote work doesn't carry the same weight. Many people just head back to the office as the living spaces here are typically smaller than in the U.S. For those with families or children, the office actually becomes the preferred place to get work done.

Chief Change Officer

#352 Wayne Turmel: Leading Without Micromanaging in the Hybrid Mess

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#352 Wayne Turmel: Leading Without Micromanaging in the Hybrid Mess

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What exactly does long-distance leadership mean? How would you define it?

Chief Change Officer

#352 Wayne Turmel: Leading Without Micromanaging in the Hybrid Mess

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Today, I'm sitting down with Wayne Turmal to dive into a crucial topic, long-distance leadership, in an era where communication technology is rapidly evolving for both workers and leaders. Yes, you heard that right. Long-distance leadership, not long-distance relationships.

Chief Change Officer

#352 Wayne Turmel: Leading Without Micromanaging in the Hybrid Mess

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How have these changes helped or disrupted the way we lead and manage teams? In other words, how have you seen long-distance leadership evolve? What changes have you noticed in terms of how it works, how fast it's changing, and the direction it's heading?

Chief Change Officer

#352 Wayne Turmel: Leading Without Micromanaging in the Hybrid Mess

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For just like with any relationship, maintaining, nurturing, and fixing long-distance leadership is far from straightforward. This conversation couldn't be more timely. When we recorded this episode, Amazon's CEO had just announced that their RTO return to office policy for 2025. And so far, the media narrative surrounding it hasn't been exactly positive.

Chief Change Officer

#352 Wayne Turmel: Leading Without Micromanaging in the Hybrid Mess

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You've released a second edition of this book. Why now? What's changed since the first edition came out in 2018?

Chief Change Officer

#63 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part One

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My guest, Chris Hare, is a strategic narrative advisor and coach for companies like Amazon and Microsoft, guiding leaders and executives with his approach called Atomic Storytelling. His method breaks down complex stories into their cool, resonant elements. In this three-part series, we'll journey through Chris' experiences in three stages.

Chief Change Officer

#63 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation.

Chief Change Officer

#63 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part One

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So far, we've covered a lot about narrative and storytelling in a business context. But as you mentioned earlier, Narrative can also play a powerful role at an individual level for leaders, for people in career transitions, or even entrepreneurs building a new venture. My next question naturally is, how do we apply narrative and story to individual situations?

Chief Change Officer

#63 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part One

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Could you walk us through some examples to help administrators

Chief Change Officer

#63 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part One

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Just now, Chris shared with us his expertise in helping businesses craft compelling corporate stories and educate us to understand the connection between story and narrative. Tomorrow in part two, we'll look at storytelling for personal transformation as Chris shares some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard. He will also open up about his own mental wellness challenge.

Chief Change Officer

#63 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part One

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you

Chief Change Officer

#63 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part One

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Today, in part one, we'll explore his expertise in helping businesses compelling corporate stories and understand the connection between story and narrative. Tomorrow in part two, we'll look at storytelling for personal transformation as Chris shares some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard he will also open up about his own mental health challenge.

Chief Change Officer

#63 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part One

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Then in part three, he'll introduce tools we can use to develop our own stories and narratives. And here's a personal confession. I told him one of his exercises might just make me cry. I'll also be sharing my own experience with another exercise, highlighting both his challenges and insights. So let's dive into the first chapter of Chris' story. Good morning to you, Chris.

Chief Change Officer

#63 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part One

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Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#63 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part One

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Chris is also a podcast host, so it's a pleasure to have him on my show today. Hopefully, I'll get a chance to return the favor and join his show one day. Now, Chris has a ton of experience in storytelling. And as many of my listeners know, I ask every guest to share their story.

Chief Change Officer

#63 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part One

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So inviting a storyteller like Chris to dive into his personal journey and share his approach to storytelling feels like a perfect fit for this episode. Chris, let's kick things off with your story. Give us an overview and then we'll dig into different elements of your journey.

Chief Change Officer

#63 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part One

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So you started your storytelling journey by helping corporations shape and share their narratives. And now you've shifted the focus to individuals. Is that right?

Chief Change Officer

#63 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part One

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If you've been listening to my show, you know I bring guests from all corners of the world to share their stories. Through these stories, we dive into hindsight, insights, and foresight for you, the progressive-minded listeners who crave change. Whether you're navigating a career shift

Chief Change Officer

#63 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part One

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We hear the term storytelling used so frequently. But before we dive into your approach, I notice that you also frequently use another term, narrative. Could you explain the difference between stories and narratives and why that distinction matters?

Chief Change Officer

#63 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part One

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In mass media, we hear the term storytelling used almost everywhere, maybe even overused. It seems like everyone is calling themselves a storyteller these days. But when you mention narrative, it seems like you are getting at something different. Could you use an analogy to help illustrate the difference or even the link between a narrative and a story?

Chief Change Officer

#63 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part One

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a personal transformation like health challenges or driving change in your organization or community, there's something here for you. Today's episode has a unique twist. I'm interviewing a storytelling expert to share his own story.

Chief Change Officer

#63 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part One

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So as I understand it, narrative and story really reinforce each other. If I'm hearing you correctly, you are saying that a narrative isn't static. It can evolve over time. For example, in a business context, you might start with one narrative that helps attract customers or business partners.

Chief Change Officer

#63 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part One

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Those people in turn generate their own stories, which marketing and communications teams can collect to learn more about the customers and their experiences. These stories then help to reshape or even reposition the narrative, potentially attracting a new segment of the market. Would you say that's a fair summary of how narrative and story interact?

Chief Change Officer

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Is the narrative essentially part of the branding? Or is it something bigger? In other words, does the narrative serve as an umbrella under which the brand and all its messaging operates? Or are they distinct but closely related? How would you explain the relationship between narrative and brand in a business context?

Chief Change Officer

#216 Jason Bloomfield: Change Consultant by Day, Resilience Expert by Life

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. I got approached by book authors, leadership coaches, business consultants, and venture founders quite often.

Chief Change Officer

#216 Jason Bloomfield: Change Consultant by Day, Resilience Expert by Life

caused by his parents' separation in the U.S. to his multiple roles across different long-standing organizations, resolving conflicts, bridging gaps, and aligning interests through M&A integration, tech disruption, and cultural alignment. You'll hear stories and examples straight from Jason's firsthand experiences. Get ready to hear how Jason has navigated change and made it work.

Chief Change Officer

#216 Jason Bloomfield: Change Consultant by Day, Resilience Expert by Life

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In your experience working in large organizations with such a long history and deep-rooted traditions, how do you introduce modern concepts and actions and get buy-in? how do you turn things around in an environment where values policies and even mindsets so entrenched how do you successfully blend modernism into that kind of setting

Chief Change Officer

#216 Jason Bloomfield: Change Consultant by Day, Resilience Expert by Life

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Among all these organizations you've been with so far, in financial services, in telecom, your current role is with Ericsson in the UK. Tell us about your current mandate.

Chief Change Officer

#216 Jason Bloomfield: Change Consultant by Day, Resilience Expert by Life

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Good morning, Jason. Welcome to our show.

Chief Change Officer

#216 Jason Bloomfield: Change Consultant by Day, Resilience Expert by Life

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You are in the transformation function. It seems obvious that AI is one of the biggest forces driving change in human organizations today. What is your take on the strategy and approach leaders, people, workers should be adopting when it comes to AI?

Chief Change Officer

#216 Jason Bloomfield: Change Consultant by Day, Resilience Expert by Life

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Yes, football versus soccer.

Chief Change Officer

#216 Jason Bloomfield: Change Consultant by Day, Resilience Expert by Life

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While you are now based in the UK... Tell us a bit about your experience growing up in New York. What was it like for you as a kid? And what kind of things were you into back then?

Chief Change Officer

#216 Jason Bloomfield: Change Consultant by Day, Resilience Expert by Life

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Thank you so much for your time, Jason.

Chief Change Officer

#216 Jason Bloomfield: Change Consultant by Day, Resilience Expert by Life

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#216 Jason Bloomfield: Change Consultant by Day, Resilience Expert by Life

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So in your early years, you experienced what I call a major disruption beyond your control. While you mentioned that, in hindsight, you can appreciate how it helped you become more resilient to change and gave you a deeper appreciation for life. I'm curious, how did you manage to help yourself and your siblings settle down and rebuild everything from the ground up?

Chief Change Officer

#216 Jason Bloomfield: Change Consultant by Day, Resilience Expert by Life

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They come with business purposes and goals, eager to share their ideas on books, practices, and venture ideas. I talk to each and every one of them taking it as an opportunity to make a new friend, get educated, and be inspired. But in this episode, the guest Jason Bloomfield came to me all of the blue one day. He isn't a book author, leadership coach, business consultant, or venture founder.

Chief Change Officer

#216 Jason Bloomfield: Change Consultant by Day, Resilience Expert by Life

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You've mentioned the word resilience quite a bit. First, in relation to your personal life and your parents' divorce. And second, regarding the M&A integration you were involved in. Now, with corporate restructuring, M&As, and costs cutting all around us, I'm curious, looking back at your early days, where you were driving M&As, integration, and navigating conflicts,

Chief Change Officer

#216 Jason Bloomfield: Change Consultant by Day, Resilience Expert by Life

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How has those early challenges helped you become more successful or perhaps, as you put it, more resilient in guiding your team, your organization through its own transformation?

Chief Change Officer

#216 Jason Bloomfield: Change Consultant by Day, Resilience Expert by Life

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He is a change maker in organizational transformation. When I asked Jason why he wanted to be on my show, his response was, it's about giving back. Vince, you're also giving back by setting up and running the show. I'm just joining you in the effort. Take this episode as a love letter from Jason to you on how to navigate personal and organizational change. From the disruption in his life,

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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So the talent supply comes from Sri Lanka, and the demand for such talent is mainly from small and medium-sized service firms, particularly in the States, focusing on roles like operations and marketing. Your vision is to accelerate and scale this model to connect global talent with global demand. Is that correct?

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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I've seen business models like this before, essentially redistributing skills and talent by connecting supply and demand more closely. Now, there are a couple of major trends impacting the workplace and the workforce, not just in the US, but globally. I imagine they affect your agency's approach in solving problems for both sides. One of the hottest topics, of course, is AI.

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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You mentioned that you place roles like admin, operations, and marketing. areas where ai is increasingly capable of taking over tasks so i'd like to pick your brain on how you balance this shift how do you navigate the balance between providing human talent and accommodating clients who might prefer tech solutions over human ones?

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm chatting with Ian Myers from New York, founder and CEO of Oceans, a modern talent agency connecting high-skilled talent from Sri Lanka with US businesses.

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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It's about doing what feels right, collecting data points and experiences, adjusting course as needed, and simply forging ahead. Let's dive into the ocean of Ian Myers.

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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So what you are saying is, while there are areas where AI can add value for cost or efficiency reasons, you still believe that there is a significant demand for human contribution in the roles you place?

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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Another trend gaining momentum in the workplace is ageism. And it's not just affecting the older population. It impacts younger people, too. Looking back at my early career in finance, an industry dominated by men, and in the US, primarily white men, I faced challenges being an Asian woman in that space. So I'm curious about your experience. While ageism may not be your main focus,

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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As part of the talent ecosystem, how do you approach this issue? Are you working to build a team that's not just culturally diverse, but also inclusive across age groups? And do you have strategies in place to help people of different ages amplify the skills and talents?

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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and had a conversation with a good friend there. He's 49. He has exited his last business. And now he's building a new venture focused on closing the gender gap. He mentioned that as a man, he has enjoyed all the benefits from the system, but he has a 17-year-old daughter, and he wants a society to be more welcoming for her when she enters the workforce.

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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Good morning, Ian. Yes, it's evening time for me. Welcome to our show. You got a lot, a lot of things to share today, but let's start with your history, your background. You're fairly young, so let's start with your academic background. Then we'll move on to your professional experiences.

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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In Japan, alongside ageism, gender inequality is surely a significant issue. Now, as a company leader and founder, you have the autonomy to shape your team with your own values. But when it comes to sourcing talent for your clients, do they mainly focus on cost efficiency, just looking to fill positions at the lowest cost possible? Or among your 300 clients,

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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Do you see a genuine interest in prioritizing diversity when it comes to factors like age and gender? I'm curious how your clients approach these issues.

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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So it sounds like you are very aware of these issues. I understand that a big part of your value proposition centers around cost efficiency, which makes sense. But when clients express specific preferences, whether it's related to diversity, age, or other factors, Do you approach each case individually to make your judgment on what's the right call? How do you determine where to draw the line?

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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I want to wrap up our conversation with one final question. linking back to something you mentioned at the beginning. When I asked you to introduce yourself, you started with your academic background, which makes sense, but you also brought up an important point. Now that we're heading into 2025, many young people, those younger than you and me, are questioning the value of a degree.

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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They wonder what kind of degree makes sense. Is it all about AI now for career prospects? Or should they pursue something that are interesting and meaningful to them like you did for personal fulfillment Given your experience in both the talent industry and your own educational path, what advice would you give to those listeners who are making these tough decisions about college and career paths?

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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Should they follow their gut and passion or align their choices with the tech-driven reality we see today?

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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Exactly. It's truly an era of chaos. And now you know why I called this show Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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That's exactly right. No one can truly calculate change or predict every outcome with absolute accuracy. I completely agree with you. It's all about centering on yourself. It's not about being self-centered, but rather understanding what aligns with your values and vision. It's about knowing what works for you and what doesn't.

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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As you mentioned earlier, it's not always about having everything calculated or planned out. Sometimes it's about going with what feels right. If something doesn't resonate, you move on. These instincts and tendencies are valuable data points They are guides that help us navigate the journey ahead.

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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Thank you for your kind words. This is very encouraging. One of the best comments I've ever received so far. And of course, thank you for all your sharing and your time. and for working with me to create an out-of-the-box storytelling for this episode. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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Great. We'll definitely talk more about Oceans in the second part of our interview. Now back to your personal journey. You mentioned that you actually moved aboard to Japan, to other Asian countries. And I believe you, in the grad school, Stanford in particular, you were into Buddhism, is that right?

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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would you say that your exposure to Buddhism, philosophy, and Eastern culture has influenced your approach to investing, entrepreneurship, and even your overall life philosophy today? I'm originally from Hong Kong, so I did the opposite. I studied and emerged myself in Western culture, which has shaped a lot of how I think and conduct myself.

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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I'm curious about the impact Eastern culture and Buddhism have had on you as an American, especially when it comes to running and building businesses.

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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Early on, you mentioned that you started with literature, moving on to international relations. Then you moved to Japan. got the chance to connect with someone in banking, which led you into finance and investment. From there, you learned about building businesses, and eventually, you started your own companies. Looking back at all these transitions,

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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What would you say are the common themes or real drivers behind them? I ask this to many of my guests. Some say they've always been self-starters, while others say life is all about learning and that each change was a way to learn something new. What about you? What are the themes or drivers that have shaped your journey so far?

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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On most podcasts, you'll hear him share stories about scaling his company from zero to over $10 million in revenue in under two years, or his insights into venture investment. But today, I'm not interested in those stories. They are surely impressive, but not the full picture. What fascinates me about Ian is that, like me, he is a fan of Tintin.

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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You are like Tintin. For those listening, when I first spoke with Ian about this interview, I discovered we had a common interest, our mutual admiration for Tintin. The adventurous explorer, always eager to dive into new places and experiences. Just like Tintin, Ian's got that same curiosity and spirit for discovery.

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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Wow. People at your age usually see Sam Altman, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, all the tech titans as their role models. Yet, you say Tintin is your role model.

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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Your firm is called Ocean. I see that you are swimming in this vast ocean of the future of work. What fascinates you about this industry, about the challenges in this space that made you dive into this big ocean and decide to leave your mark?

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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For the audience who might not be familiar with your firm, could you give us a quick rundown of what your firm does? Specifically, who are your top clients and what kinds of problems do you help solve?

Chief Change Officer

#215 Ian Myers: Scaling Careers & Businesses (With a Hint of Tintin)

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Tintin's spirit of adventure clearly impacts Ian's own approach to work and life. From the US to Japan, from literature to banking, venture capital to entrepreneurship, and gaming to launching a talent agency, He's been on a true journey. What is his secret to success? It's not about over-calculating.

Chief Change Officer

#162 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part One

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Dust Free? As in D-U-S-T Dust Free?

Chief Change Officer

#162 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part One

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If values are so transformative and essential in shaping behavior and driving success, why do you think most people are unaware of their own values? Is it because they haven't taken the time to reflect? Or is it something deeper, like societal distractions, external pressures, or even a lack of understanding about how to identify values in the very first place?

Chief Change Officer

#162 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part One

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I'd love to hear your perspective on this.

Chief Change Officer

#162 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part One

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If you feel stuck in your current workplace, it's not necessarily your fault. Often, it's just a misalignment of values. Don't bend your values to fit in. Instead, find a place and a tribe whose values resonate with yours. That's where true happiness and success lie. Let's dive in.

Chief Change Officer

#162 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part One

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Absolutely. You've touched on something so critical. Figuring out our values is challenging because, as you said, within absorbing others' expectation, whether from parents, schools, peers, or society, like a sponge for years, And when we don't consciously question or explore those imposed values, we can feel stuck or out of place without even understanding why.

Chief Change Officer

#162 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part One

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In the workplace, this disconnect often manifests as frustration, disengagement, or being labeled as not a team player. But as you pointed out, is rarely about competence or work ethics. It's about a values mismatch.

Chief Change Officer

#162 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part One

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If we take the time to understand our core values, it not only helps us find better alignment with a company or a team, but also enables us to navigate the environment more strategically. we can identify where things resonate and where they don't, which teams and leaders share a similar outlook, and how to bridge gaps when values diverge.

Chief Change Officer

#162 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part One

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This awareness gives us clarity on how to behave, communicate, and even set boundaries, thereby reducing stress and improving fulfillment. Wouldn't you agree?

Chief Change Officer

#162 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part One

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Just now, Robert shared with us what values really mean, why they matter for leading fulfilling careers and lives, and why figuring out our values can be challenging. In part two, we'll explore how to make our values more visible and sustainable in a world that is constantly changing and noisy. Come back and join us tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

Chief Change Officer

#162 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part One

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Robert, I'm really excited to dive into the ideas behind your book, not just the content, but also the why behind it. What's the story behind this calling to write a book about value? Before we get there, I'd love to hear about your journey leading up to who you are today and the work you do, which have been shaped by your past, your experiences, your highs, your lows, and your challenges?

Chief Change Officer

#162 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part One

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#162 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part One

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What moments or turning points in your life that brought you to this very stage?

Chief Change Officer

#162 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part One

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By your own definition, what exactly are values?

Chief Change Officer

#162 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part One

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is such an insightful point, feeling like we're constantly fulfilling someone else's agenda that don't align with our own goals or values. It is easy to get lost in this sea, isn't it? Values, like you mentioned, can feel like abstract concepts until we truly define them in our lives. Take honesty, for example. It's a value that sounds universal, but how we live it might differ vastly.

Chief Change Officer

#162 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part One

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Robert, I'd love for you to share some specific values you've examined or highlighted in your work. Maybe ones that stood out or even surprised you in the importance. walk us through a couple and ideas behind them. How do they resonate in a world where we often feel disconnected from what really matters?

Chief Change Officer

#162 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part One

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To that CEO, I may have seemed incompetent, but I knew exactly why I had to leave so quickly. It was a major clash of values. I believe in being true and ethical in both words and deeds, while he thrived on a man-made facade of showmanship and hypocrisy. Knowing my values made the decision clear. This experience ties directly to today's guest. Robert Mercier.

Chief Change Officer

#162 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part One

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You mentioned that one driving force behind publishing your book was seeing how powerful it is when people figure out the values, align the behaviors with them, and act on them. The results, as you've said, can be extraordinary. Could you share some examples from your coaching experiences? without naming names, of course, that highlight this transformation.

Chief Change Officer

#162 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part One

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Stories where someone identified their core values, made changes to align with them, and saw incredible results. I think those examples could inspire and show us what's possible when we live in alignment with our values.

Chief Change Officer

#162 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. A few years ago, I joined a growing venture as the chief people officer. It lasted just six weeks.

Chief Change Officer

#162 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part One

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He's the author of Living a Values-Based Life and the creator of the leadership model called Excellent Decisions. In this two-part series, we'll dive into what values really mean, why they matter for leading fulfilling careers and lives, and why figuring out our values can be challenging. We'll also explore how to make our values visible and sustainable in a world that's constantly changing.

Chief Change Officer

#161 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part Two

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I can tell you exactly why I connected with that question, because I experienced it myself. Honestly, I think 80-90% of my thoughts on any given day being negative. It's just the way our minds work sometimes, especially when uncertainty is evolved. When we think about the future, we tend to naturally default to worst-case scenarios, even when, more often than not,

Chief Change Officer

#161 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part Two

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things turn out far less catastrophic than we imagined. Yet, those negative thoughts can feel overwhelming, very loud, disruptive, and hard to ignore. Personally, I have to deal with that noise every single day. I hear it, but I remind myself to focus, to move forward despite the chatted, That's why I really value your advice.

Chief Change Officer

#161 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part Two

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It's practical and it's something I know I can apply right away to keep that noise in check.

Chief Change Officer

#161 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part Two

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Just a couple of weeks ago, I released two episodes with a guest who wrote a book called Generosity Wins. He's a seasoned CEO who talks about how actions and mindset of generosity not only enrich others, but also create greater success in life and career.

Chief Change Officer

#161 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part Two

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One powerful idea he shared was how a single generous action creates a ripple effect, encouraging others to replicate it, and in turn, making the world a little better. Of course, we can't measure the full impact. There's no way to track every ripple, but the concept is the same as what you are seeing. When we experience joy or positivity in our lives, we have the chance to pass it on.

Chief Change Officer

#161 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part Two

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In his example, even something as simple as a smile can spark change. Smiling at a stranger, a colleague, or a friend might seem trivial, but it can create a moment of positivity that ripples outward. is a reminder that small actions often have the biggest impact.

Chief Change Officer

#161 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part Two

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#161 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part Two

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Not so much the workshops you facilitate or the lessons you teach, but your personal journey. How you've dealt with, navigated, and grown from failure over time. If you like, feel free to share specific stories and give us an overview of your journey with failure. Either way works.

Chief Change Officer

#161 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part Two

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I haven't read your book yet, but failure as a concept resonates deeply. Just before this, I was interviewing another guest and we talked about transitions, not just career changes, but life changing events. In her case, two years ago, she survived a severe car accident that left her paralyzed.

Chief Change Officer

#161 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part Two

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From a young age, Erin dreamed of becoming a talk show host. Why did she choose that path? And how did her journey lead her to combine improv and business? I told Erin, you are in the business of joy. But beyond joy, we also talked about failure. Erin calls herself a failfluencer. a blend of failure and influence.

Chief Change Officer

#161 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part Two

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She shared how she endured the physical and mental pain, learned to walk again, rebuild her coaching business, and even started a podcast within just two years. Coincidentally, your experiences also highlight how resilience and failure intertwine. I call this lifting human intelligence. That is the ability to reflect deeply on who we are and transform setbacks into meaningful insights.

Chief Change Officer

#161 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part Two

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And while these three words like sell, learn, grow, may sound simple on the surface. Developing that level of clarity through real experience is far from easy. What stands out is not just the lesson itself, but the process of sustaining pain, making sense of it, and transforming it into a systematic approach others can understand and apply.

Chief Change Officer

#161 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part Two

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The pain itself is real and unfortunate, but it often opens doors to growth. As I told my other guest, failure, if managed well, can become one of the greatest opportunities for transformation. Would you agree?

Chief Change Officer

#161 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part Two

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Sure. I think that's a great way to wipe things up. I always discourage hard selling on this show. But this isn't about that. It's about sharing the lessons you've distilled from your real, sometimes painful, life experiences. Lessons that listeners can take away and apply right now. So as closing thought, could you share a method or approach from your work that anyone can try?

Chief Change Officer

#161 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part Two

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something practical, educational, not just inspirational, that could help listeners facing their own dilemmas, whether they're in career transition, dealing with personal challenges, or simply feeling stuck. What's one step or exercise they could use to figure themselves out and take that first step forward?

Chief Change Officer

#161 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Erin Deal, founder and CEO of Improved, a company that uses improv to help teams grow and thrive. Like me, she's also a top podcast host.

Chief Change Officer

#161 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part Two

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I would say definitely over 50. So should be between 80 to 90%.

Chief Change Officer

#161 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part Two

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This two-part series dives into her unique approach to joy, failure, growth, and learning. No more waiting. Let's get started. I understand one of your key workshops focuses on failure, and you even coined the term Bellfluencers, a blend of failure and influencers. I'd love to dive into this topic, but from a personal perspective, could you share your own experiences with failure?

Chief Change Officer

#87 Lucy Gernon: The Big Leap Wasn’t a Blind Jump

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When we talked last time, you mentioned how much you focus on confidence in your coaching, especially for women at work. Yet, I've noticed that confidence is often overused, almost a buzzword in every training, learning, and tech product. I was wondering, how do you define confidence differently?

Chief Change Officer

#87 Lucy Gernon: The Big Leap Wasn’t a Blind Jump

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Speaking of coaching your clients to boost their confidence, I know you've developed a signature program called the Executive Presence Blueprint. Why did you create this program? What was your thought process behind it? And could you share some of the key principles that guide your approach?

Chief Change Officer

#87 Lucy Gernon: The Big Leap Wasn’t a Blind Jump

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Lucy, let's start with the juicy part of the interview with you telling us about your journey from biotechnology to woman leadership coaching.

Chief Change Officer

#87 Lucy Gernon: The Big Leap Wasn’t a Blind Jump

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In all of your time helping clients, have you ever had a situation where the learning outcome didn't quite meet your expectations? And what did you learn from that experience?

Chief Change Officer

#87 Lucy Gernon: The Big Leap Wasn’t a Blind Jump

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So who are your ideal clients? Could you describe them for us? Perhaps some of our listeners might be interested in seeking your help.

Chief Change Officer

#87 Lucy Gernon: The Big Leap Wasn’t a Blind Jump

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These days, I always like to end our conversation with a multi-billion dollar question. We're entering the AI era, with innovations like AI agents and AI coaches emerging. From a coaching perspective, how do you see this AI-human partnership evolving? And in what ways do you think human coaches like yourself still hold a competitive advantage over AI advancements?

Chief Change Officer

#87 Lucy Gernon: The Big Leap Wasn’t a Blind Jump

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Let's give a big round of applause to our first guest from Ireland for her courage and strength as a mother of three, not only realizing her own ambitions, but also helping other ambitious women achieve their dreams through human connections. Thank you, Lucy.

Chief Change Officer

#87 Lucy Gernon: The Big Leap Wasn’t a Blind Jump

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#87 Lucy Gernon: The Big Leap Wasn’t a Blind Jump

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Today, let's give a warm welcome to our first guest from Ireland, Lucy Garner. Lucy is not only a mother of three and a millennial, but she also has a background in biotech and has spent many years in medical science. Yet in the last few years, She made a bold leap into entrepreneurship, now coaching emerging and established women leaders.

Chief Change Officer

#87 Lucy Gernon: The Big Leap Wasn’t a Blind Jump

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So you have this hidden burning fire inside you for long. Yet, I recall you told me once that when you shared your first post on LinkedIn, that was the scariest moment in your life. So tell us more about how this transformation of you

Chief Change Officer

#87 Lucy Gernon: The Big Leap Wasn’t a Blind Jump

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You are a mother of three and you're an entrepreneur. You've really shown us how to balance a family and a business. Many of our listeners face similar challenges, worrying about mortgages and stable paychecks, understanding that success isn't just handed to them.

Chief Change Officer

#87 Lucy Gernon: The Big Leap Wasn’t a Blind Jump

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with your impressive journey, if you could share some practical advice for those dreaming of starting their own business, what would it be? How can they make that leap while still managing family commitments

Chief Change Officer

#87 Lucy Gernon: The Big Leap Wasn’t a Blind Jump

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Here on my show, I don't share and tell success stories to glorify success. I dive into real, lived experiences. complete with successes, setbacks, surprises, and all the twists and turns. Lucy's story is exactly that, and it's one I'm excited to explore beyond just the accolades she's received. Let's begin this journey together, now.

Chief Change Officer

#87 Lucy Gernon: The Big Leap Wasn’t a Blind Jump

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#87 Lucy Gernon: The Big Leap Wasn’t a Blind Jump

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You are a coach yourself now. Ever been on the other side of that? Being coached? How has being coached helped you become better at helping your own clients?

Chief Change Officer

#333 Dominic Carter: Burnout at 24, Building for 2040

Dominic, now in his 50s, is facing the same challenge as many of us are, aging parents. Only he's not just navigating it, he's building businesses around it. We'll dive into the future of aging tech, the cultural barriers that slow innovation. and why the biggest business opportunity in Japan might just be the one no one's paying enough attention to. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#333 Dominic Carter: Burnout at 24, Building for 2040

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Before we dive into your big current project, which I see has huge potential, let's do a quick age check. I know there's a personal reason that led you to this next big thing. Can you share that story with us? What made this the right path for you?

Chief Change Officer

#333 Dominic Carter: Burnout at 24, Building for 2040

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Right. Yeah.

Chief Change Officer

#333 Dominic Carter: Burnout at 24, Building for 2040

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Technology, no doubt, it plays a huge role And I'll let you talk more about that in a moment. But as I was listening to your personal story, I couldn't help but relate. I'm also over 50. My parents are in the mid-70s, early 80s. And of course, many of my friends have parents around the same age. And yes, generational shifts are something we all see coming.

Chief Change Officer

#333 Dominic Carter: Burnout at 24, Building for 2040

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What affects my parents now will eventually affect me, and not just now, but in the years ahead. But don't you think part of the challenge isn't just technology? It's not about having the right tools or even how good they are. A huge part of the problem is mindset and habit. Our parents' generation

Chief Change Officer

#333 Dominic Carter: Burnout at 24, Building for 2040

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are talking with Dominic Carter, CEO of the Carter Group, whose journey from Australia to Japan is anything but predictable. He didn't just move aboard.

Chief Change Officer

#333 Dominic Carter: Burnout at 24, Building for 2040

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often isn't mentally prepared to adopt technology deeply, even when it could make their lives easier, healthier, or better. So when we talk about technology adoption, isn't the biggest barrier sometimes not the tech itself, but the willingness to accept and use it?

Chief Change Officer

#333 Dominic Carter: Burnout at 24, Building for 2040

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Good afternoon to you, Dominic. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#333 Dominic Carter: Burnout at 24, Building for 2040

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Dominic, you were originally from Australia, but now you're in Japan. You've been there for over 20 years or so. What brought you all the way from Australia to Japan is quite a long flight.

Chief Change Officer

#333 Dominic Carter: Burnout at 24, Building for 2040

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Sure. So far, I haven't asked about your specific role in this tech space. Are you more of an investor? Are you actually building the technology? Or are you more on the marketing and community building side? What exactly is your role right now? And looking ahead, do you see yourself shifting, doing more of certain things, less of others?

Chief Change Officer

#333 Dominic Carter: Burnout at 24, Building for 2040

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Because beyond just creating new products, there's also the challenge of shaping mindsets, helping people become more open and receptive to this future of aging. How do you see your role in making that happen?

Chief Change Officer

#333 Dominic Carter: Burnout at 24, Building for 2040

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That's it for today. We've explored Dominic's journey from an outsider in Australia to building a career and a life in Japan. But his story doesn't stop there. Next, we turn to a challenge that hits close to home. Aging. From navigating his parents' changing needs to pushing the boundaries of aging tech in Japan, Dominic is tackling the future in a way that's both personal, scalable, and urgent.

Chief Change Officer

#333 Dominic Carter: Burnout at 24, Building for 2040

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Join me for part two. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#333 Dominic Carter: Burnout at 24, Building for 2040

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Do you mind if I ask you at what age you moved over from Australia? After college or even before?

Chief Change Officer

#333 Dominic Carter: Burnout at 24, Building for 2040

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So basically, you first went there representing an overseas company. You did that for a few years, but decided, okay, time for a break, time to move on. You went back home, but then you returned, this time on your own. And ever since, you stayed, worked, built your business, and established your own credentials. Not to mention, you've built up your Japanese skills along the way.

Chief Change Officer

#333 Dominic Carter: Burnout at 24, Building for 2040

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I'm guessing you speak it very well now.

Chief Change Officer

#333 Dominic Carter: Burnout at 24, Building for 2040

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Being your own boss comes with freedom, but it also means owning every decision, every action. Entrepreneurship, when successful, can bring big rewards, financially and otherwise, but behind the big paycheck comes There's also a lot of stress, pressure, and challenges that outsiders don't usually see. They just see the highlight reel, maybe even your face on a magazine cover.

Chief Change Officer

#333 Dominic Carter: Burnout at 24, Building for 2040

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7, 8, 9 figure success? Great! Or maybe you are a low-profile entrepreneur just quietly building. Either way, it takes a certain type of person. Just like not everyone moves to Japan and stays long term, not everyone is cut out for entrepreneurship. Now, I know you've had your hands full over the past 20 years, running businesses, building, evolving.

Chief Change Officer

#333 Dominic Carter: Burnout at 24, Building for 2040

He jumped headfirst into a new culture, built a career, burned out, left, and then came right back, this time on his own terms. In Part 1, we dig into his early days, how a fascination with Japan turned into a full-blown career, why opening a Tokyo office at 24 almost broke him, and what made him bet on himself as an entrepreneur. In Part 2, things get personal.

Chief Change Officer

#333 Dominic Carter: Burnout at 24, Building for 2040

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Can you walk us through your entrepreneurial journey? Not just the ups and the downs, but also the types of things you've built along the way. I'd love to hear more about how it all unfolded.

Chief Change Officer

#333 Dominic Carter: Burnout at 24, Building for 2040

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I can see you're one of those people who's always moving forward, not making random redness jumps, but also never letting yourself get too comfortable. Looking back, what do you think drives you? What's the common thread behind every time you push past your boundaries into the next big thing? Is it motivation, emotion, a certain mindset, or something else entirely?

Chief Change Officer

#333 Dominic Carter: Burnout at 24, Building for 2040

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Some people are purely opportunistic. They follow the money, chasing trends that bring the biggest returns. But in my view, if that is the main driver, it doesn't lead to sustainable success. So what about you? What's the thread that connects everything you've done A to B to C and keeps you stretching your limits?

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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Variables we can control or things we aren't even aware of yet. And that brings us to the flexor.

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Kevin Aikenberry didn't take the usual road into leadership.

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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One thing that really stands out in your book is how you structure it into three parts. Mindset, skillset, and haphazard. A lot of leadership books focus mostly on mindset, or sometimes just a specific skill or set of habits. But you've laid out all three. Is that meant to be a sequence? Mindset first, then skills, and finally habits?

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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And how do you see those layers working together to make flexible leadership? more sustainable, especially when we need to flex based on different contexts.

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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Actually, what you just said reminds me of something I learned at Chicago Booth. The professors who taught astrology and leadership, many of them are sociologists. they would always emphasize that leadership isn't just about the individual. A lot of courses focus on the leader as the hero, but in reality, it's often the situation, the context that drives behavior, both yours and others.

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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Whenever a guest sends me the book, I always make sure to at least skim through it carefully. I read pretty fast, so while I might not promise to study every page in detail, I make sure to get a strong sense of the work. Now, looking at your book right here, there's one sentence from the introduction that really caught my eye. Let me read it out loud. Everything seems to be changing.

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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One professor, whose name is Nick Apley, said that 70 to 80% of behavior in organizations is shaped by the environment, not individual traits. So as a CEO or leader, the goal isn't just to hire the smartest people. which is the usual saying, instead is to build the kind of environment that brings out the right, the best fit behaviors for the whole organization. That really stays with me.

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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As we are concluding, is there anything you would really like to add? Maybe a key message we didn't touch on yet. or something you want to leave the audience with to close out our conversation?

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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Kevin, thank you so much for staying with us, sparing one whole hour to share honestly your human intelligence in Flexible Leadership.

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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Wow. $79 worth of value. Completely free. That's not what I expected. Thank you so much, Kevin. What a nice surprise. I'll make sure to include that in the show notes. That brings our conversation to a close. Kevin reminds us that flexible leadership isn't about losing your values. It's about applying them in ways that actually work. Context changes. People change.

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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But real leadership stays grounded in knowing when and how to flex. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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Yet the most important things aren't changing at all. The words aren't changing at all are written in italics. So my immediate question to you is what are those most important things that aren't changing

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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I completely agree with you, especially when it comes to human nature and all the biases we carry. Psychology is different. argue that there are thousands, not hundreds of biases. We're emotional, we're flawed, and sometimes we don't act rationally simply because we don't feel like it. And that alone can be a bias.

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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That's why, like you said, even though our tools have evolved from Mac machines to smartphones to AI, the fundamentals haven't changed. In fact, this reminds me of what I observed in the education technology space before COVID. Some entrepreneurs call it digital transformation, when all they really did was transfer textbooks onto a digital platform. That's not much of a transformation.

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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That is digitalization. Learning on the phone and learning in person are not the same. In a tech-driven world, we still need that human element. We need the personal connection, the understanding, the guidance, the nuance. So yes, a lot of things don't need to change. And like you said, even if one important step changes, the other 11 might stay the same.

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

45.4

He started on a farm in Michigan, feeding hogs, pulling fertilizer, and learning the basics of discipline and responsibility before he ever set foot in a corporate office. Today, he's the founder of the Kevin Aikenberry Group. and one of the top leadership thinkers in the US.

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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But for any transformation to work, everything still needs to move in sync.

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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In your book, you talk about flexible leadership. At first glance, people might just think it means being agile or adaptable. But you actually define it more precisely as a formula. Intention, context, and the flexor. I'll let you walk us through each of those three elements. But what really caught my eye was when you said in the book, 1 plus 1 plus 1 equals 3.

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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Each of those three elements make someone a flexible leader. Because mathematically, we could just say 0 plus 0 plus 3 equals 3. The answer is still 3. But your point is, to truly be a flexible leader, we need to develop all three components, not just focus on one and hope is enough, or in full intention, without context, without flexor.

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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So first, can you explain what intention, context, and flexor actually mean in your model? And second, how they work together in practice

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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He is the author of Remarkable Leadership, From Bot to Boss, The Long Distance Leader, The Long Distance Teammate, The Long Distance Team, and his newest book, Flexible Leadership. In this two-part series, we talk about flexible leadership,

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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I'll definitely ask you more about flexors in a moment. That part really caught my attention. When I saw the term flexor, immediately I thought of muscle. How we stretch, adapt, and train them over time. And yes, our brain is a muscle too. I used to play tennis, and I remember how important muscle memory was. that repetitive motion becomes second nature. So I'll circle back to that.

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

928.5

But before we go there, let me share how I personally interpret your model. Intention to me is about willpower, is the conscious choice to take action or not. For instance, when I started the show, I told myself I would hit 100 episodes by the end of the first year. That was my intention. But now, already 14 months after the show was born, it's over 300 episodes.

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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why rigid styles backfire, how human nature stays the same even when the technology and the tools change, and what it really takes to lead when the old playbooks don't fit anymore. Let's jump right in.

Chief Change Officer

#332 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part Two

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I set my focus and fully committed to it. Then there's context. which I see as the situation or environment we're operating in. In your book, you break that down across a few dimensions, like complexity, uncertainty, or how much is known versus unknown. And that makes sense because in real life, we often focus only on what is in front of us. but that's always a bigger picture.

Chief Change Officer

#153 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part One

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So far, we've covered a lot about narrative and storytelling in a business context. But as you mentioned earlier, Narrative can also play a powerful role at an individual level for leaders, for people in career transitions, or even entrepreneurs building a new venture. My next question naturally is, how do we apply narrative and story to individual situations?

Chief Change Officer

#153 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part One

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Could you walk us through some examples to help administrators

Chief Change Officer

#153 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part One

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Just now, Chris shared with us his expertise in helping businesses craft compelling corporate stories and educate us to understand the connection between story and narrative. Tomorrow in part two, we'll look at storytelling for personal transformation as Chris shares some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard. He will also open up about his own mental wellness challenge.

Chief Change Officer

#153 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part One

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Thank you.

Chief Change Officer

#153 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part One

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Today, in part one, we'll explore his expertise in helping businesses craft compelling corporate stories and understand the connection between story and narrative. Tomorrow in part two, we'll look at storytelling for personal transformation as Chris shares some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard he will also open up about his own mental health challenge.

Chief Change Officer

#153 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part One

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Then in part three, he'll introduce tools we can use to develop our own stories and narratives. And here's a personal confession. I told him one of his exercises might just make me cry. I'll also be sharing my own experience with another exercise, highlighting both his challenges and insights. So let's dive into the first chapter of Chris' story. Good morning to you, Chris.

Chief Change Officer

#153 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part One

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Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#153 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part One

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Chris is also a podcast host, so it's a pleasure to have him on my show today. Hopefully, I'll get a chance to return the favor and join his show one day. Now, Chris has a ton of experience in storytelling. And as many of my listeners know, I ask every guest to share their story.

Chief Change Officer

#153 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part One

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So inviting a storyteller like Chris to dive into his personal journey and share his approach to storytelling feels like a perfect fit for this episode. Chris, let's kick things off with your story. Give us an overview and then we'll dig into different elements of your journey.

Chief Change Officer

#153 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part One

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If you've been listening to my show, you know I bring guests from all corners of the world to share their stories. Through these stories, we dive into hindsight, insights, and foresight for you, the progressive-minded listeners who crave change. Whether you're navigating a career shift

Chief Change Officer

#153 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part One

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So you started your storytelling journey by helping corporations shape and share their narratives. And now you've shifted the focus to individuals. Is that right?

Chief Change Officer

#153 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part One

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We hear the term storytelling used so frequently. But before we dive into your approach, I notice that you also frequently use another term, narrative. Could you explain the difference between stories and narratives, and why that distinction matters?

Chief Change Officer

#153 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part One

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In mass media, we hear the term storytelling used almost everywhere, maybe even overused. It seems like everyone is calling themselves a storyteller these days. But when you mention narrative, it seems like you are getting at something different. Could you use an analogy to help illustrate the difference or even the link between a narrative and a story?

Chief Change Officer

#153 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part One

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a personal transformation like health challenges or driving change in your organization or community, there's something here for you. Today's episode has a unique twist. I'm interviewing a storytelling expert to share his own story.

Chief Change Officer

#153 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part One

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So as I understand it, narrative and story really reinforce each other. If I'm hearing you correctly, you're saying that a narrative isn't static. It can evolve over time. For example, in a business context, you might start with one narrative that helps attract customers or business partners.

Chief Change Officer

#153 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part One

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Those people in turn generate their own stories, which marketing and communications teams can collect to learn more about the customers and their experiences. These stories then help to reshape or even reposition the narrative, potentially attracting a new segment of the market. Would you say that's a fair summary of how narrative and story interact?

Chief Change Officer

#153 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#153 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part One

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Is the narrative essentially part of the branding or is it something bigger? In other words, does the narrative serve as an umbrella under which the brand and all its messaging operates? Or are they distinct but closely related? How would you explain the relationship between narrative and brand in a business context?

Chief Change Officer

#153 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part One

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My guest, Chris Hare, is a strategic narrative advisor and coach for companies like Amazon and Microsoft, guiding leaders and executives with his approach called Atomic Storytelling. His method breaks down complex stories into their cool, resonant elements. In this three-part series, we'll journey through Chris' experiences in three stages.

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

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From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition, to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shares how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In the next episodes, we'll explore the learning required for transformation, why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skill stacking is the future.

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

12.634

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This is a three-part series with Colin Selvidge.

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

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Let me share with you one live example, which is this podcast show. When I first started, it was a weekly show, one episode per week on average. Now, seven episodes, one week, which means it has become a daily show, one episode per day, Then some people joke with me. Hey, Vince, are you using AI for all of this? And my answer is simple.

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

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There's no tool out there right now that can holistically handle the entire process of creating seven episodes a week. Sure, I use ChatGPT to check grammar or refine some copywriting when I need a bit of inspiration. But beyond that, everything else is on me.

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

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I invite every guest personally, schedule pre-calls, talk with them for at least 30 minutes before actual recording, send follow-up emails, handle all the nitty-gritty details, and of course, host the show myself. This voice you hear, that's all human. Beyond editing every single piece, I do it myself, with the soundtrack.

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

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I know there's so-called AI-driven tools that claim to pick segments for audiograms or do the heavy lifting, but honestly, I do it manually. I'm so immersed in each conversation that I know exactly which moments stand out and deserve to be highlighted. is a lot of human touch, a lot of my personal footprint, my fingerprint in every part of the process. And that's what creates the final product.

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

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Looking ahead, I think the strategy for individuals, whether in work or life, has to involve finding the balance. Along the way, we need to decide which parts of the process need more human touch, where monitoring, intuition, and judgment are essential, and then identify which parts can be standardized or delegated to AI to work faster with more precision and on a larger scale.

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

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And finally, in part three, we'll tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Buckle up, this one is a ride.

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

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That's what I see as the way forward, creating your own strategy for the vision of labor between the human and the machine.

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

193.888

I kind of agree or disagree with what you just said. Lifelong learning is about the attitude, in my opinion. Lifelong learning isn't just about acquiring new knowledge. It's about figuring out how you learn best. Some people thrive in classroom settings or in-person workshops, while others prefer self-paced digital formats.

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

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The methods vary, but the goal is the same, which is to keep growing, to keep learning. When it comes to skill stacking, I see it as something deeper. You mentioned it's about purposefully merging diverse skills to solve complex challenges, and I think you're right. What's often missing isn't the means to learn, We have more access than ever to tools, training, and knowledge.

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

263.321

The gap lies in connecting the dots between those skills and leveraging them in meaningful ways to multiply the impact. In my view, we are living in a tool economy, tool, T-O-O-L. Everything is about the tool. whether it's chat GPT today, Google yesterday, or whatever the next hot thing will be. The mindset is, if you have a problem, there's a tool for that. Need a solution?

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

299.424

Just grab a hammer, a screwdriver. What is the problem? Most of the time, those tools are just solving surface-level symptoms. not addressing the deeper underlying issues. It's like putting a band-aid on a cut without treating the infection. Sure, the immediate problem looks solved, but the root cause persists, and people end up repeating the same mistakes.

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

335.607

I see this pattern a lot, especially among knowledge workers. They buy into the idea of lifelong learning, sign up for courses, pay for certifications, and stack up all these skills. But they don't actually go anywhere with them. Why? Because the key isn't just acquiring skills,

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

361.207

is in connecting them, applying them to real-life scenarios, case by case, and solving problems with them in an integrated manner. So the missing piece is less about technical skills and more about human skills, what most people call solved skills. Problem solving, critical thinking, emotional intelligence, communication. These are the connective tissue that make skill stacking impactful.

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

396.05

Without them, you're just collecting tools in a toolbox. You don't know how to use effectively. That's where I think the future of lifelong learning needs to focus. Not just teaching new skills, but on helping people build the connections between them and apply them in meaningful, impactful ways. It's not about the tools themselves. It's about what you build with them.

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

45.87

In part one, the first episode, we'll dive into Colin's fascinating journey as a self-proclaimed change addict turned change guru. Colin's career spans continents, cultures, and industries seven countries lived in, seven more seconded to, and projects in over 70 nations.

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

624.369

So you've been diving deep into AI lately. As someone with a strong background in change management and leadership, how do you see this technology shaping the future of change management and skill stacking? What's your vision for where we're headed?

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

75.414

From organizational transformation to personal reinvention, he has mastered the art of embracing change and applying those lessons to life. In this conversation, Colin unpacks his unique perspective on change. How throwing himself into the unknown led to unparalleled growth and insight.

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

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Destruction and wastage. It's just noise.

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

876.439

One thing that many people agree on, but I don't think they are fully figured out yet. It's the importance of human skills in an AI-driven world. I like to call it human intelligence. In fact, that's the essence of this podcast. My goal is to elevate human intelligence by uniting global voices like yours. For me, human intelligence is about being experience-driven,

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

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time-tested and grounded in real-life skills. It's about tapping into high-sight, insight, and foresight, exactly like the wisdom you shared over the past hour. And while we talk about human intelligence being crucial in the AI era, I think that's exactly what we're lacking.

Chief Change Officer

#397 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Three

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With all these tools, social media platforms, and tech innovations, people aren't developing essential skills like communication, which is at the core of human intelligence. So my question to you is this, human skills are critical, but how do we bring them back How do we nurture and develop these skills as we move forward?

Chief Change Officer

#396 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Two

106.34

From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shares how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In the next episodes, we'll explore the learning required for transformation, why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skill stacking is the future.

Chief Change Officer

#396 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Two

12.577

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This is a three-part series with Colin Selvidge.

Chief Change Officer

#396 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Two

1401.312

I kind of agree or disagree with what you just said. Lifelong learning is about the attitude, in my opinion. Lifelong learning isn't just about acquiring new knowledge. It's about figuring out how you learn best. Some people thrive in classroom settings or in-person workshops, while others prefer self-paced digital formats.

Chief Change Officer

#396 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Two

142.659

And finally, in part three, we'll tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Buckle up, this one is a ride. Like you said, one of the threats running through your experience is change and strategy. You've worked with so many firms and organizations, guiding them through their transformations, so you must have seen countless business cases unfold.

Chief Change Officer

#396 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Two

1436.286

The methods vary, but the goal is the same, which is to keep growing, to keep learning. When it comes to skill stacking, I see it as something deeper. you mentioned is about purposefully merging diverse skills to solve complex challenges. And I think you're right. What's often missing isn't the means to learn. We have more access than ever to tools, training, and knowledge.

Chief Change Officer

#396 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Two

1470.745

The gap lies in connecting the dots between those skills and leveraging them in meaningful ways to multiply the impact. In my view, we are living in a tool economy, tool, T-O-O-L. Everything is about the tool, whether it's ChatGPT today, Google yesterday, or whatever the next hot thing will be. The mindset is, if you have a problem, there's a tool for that. Need a solution?

Chief Change Officer

#396 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Two

1506.839

Just grab a hammer, a screwdriver. What is the problem? Most of the time, those tools are just solving surface-level symptoms, not addressing the deeper underlying issues. It is like putting a band-aid on a cut without treating the infection. Sure, the immediate problem looks solved, but the root cause persists, and people end up repeating the same mistakes.

Chief Change Officer

#396 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Two

1543.052

I see this pattern a lot, especially among knowledge workers. They buy into the idea of lifelong learning, sign up for courses, pay for certifications, and stack up all these skills. But they don't actually go anywhere with them. Why? Because the key isn't just acquiring skills,

Chief Change Officer

#396 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Two

1568.633

is in connecting them, applying them to real-life scenarios, case by case, and solving problems with them in an integrated manner. So the missing piece is less about technical skills and more about human skills, what most people call solved skills. Problem solving, critical thinking, emotional intelligence, communication. These are the connective tissue that make skill stacking impactful.

Chief Change Officer

#396 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Two

1603.463

Without them, you're just collecting tools in a toolbox. You don't know how to use effectively. That's where I think the future of lifelong learning needs to focus. Not just teaching new skills, but on helping people build the connections between them and apply them in meaningful, impactful ways. It's not about the tools themselves. It's about what you build with them.

Chief Change Officer

#396 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Two

1837.841

Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#396 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Two

189.212

What have you learned from these consulting projects and organizational change initiatives that could apply to individual situations? Are there lessons for these business cases that also resonate on a personal level, especially when we face dilemmas or crossroads in our own lives?

Chief Change Officer

#396 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Two

46.486

In part one, the first episode, we'll dive into Colin's fascinating journey as a self-proclaimed change addict turned change guru. Colin's career spans continents, cultures, and industries, seven countries lived in, seven more seconded to, and projects in over 70 nations.

Chief Change Officer

#396 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Two

623.369

I can totally relate to your Canadian example. I've had a similar experience myself. We can chat more about it offline. But eventually, it led to me leaving that company. If I think about it in a more personal context, like within a family, change isn't just about one person. It's a group decision that can lead to challenges too. For example,

Chief Change Officer

#396 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Two

655.748

When I used to help younger professionals plan their MBA career paths, many of them would ask me, Vince, should I apply to this school or that school? Should I study in this city or another city? Often, these decisions weren't just about them. They were married, so the decision had to include the spouse. My answer to them was, this isn't just about you. What does your husband or wife think?

Chief Change Officer

#396 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Two

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Have you discussed whether it will mean long distance for two years? Will they move with you? If they do, will they be able to work? If not, what happens then? That's where the tension often starts. One partner wants to change, but the other doesn't, or they see the change differently. It creates conflict, and that's not unlike what happens in a business setting.

Chief Change Officer

#396 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Two

722.108

One stakeholder might push for a big transformation, while others hesitate or resist because the interpretation of change is different. So yes, I think that dynamic applies across contexts, personal or professional.

Chief Change Officer

#396 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Two

76.027

From organizational transformation to personal reinvention, he has mastered the art of embracing change and applying those lessons to life. In this conversation, Colin unpacks his unique perspective on change. How throwing himself into the unknown led to unparalleled growth and insight.

Chief Change Officer

#396 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Two

866.225

Actually, you have so many degrees that people often ask me, Vince, are you collecting degrees? I usually laugh it off and say, no, I have three. And I talk each one very seriously. I don't even bother explaining why I pursued two MBAs anymore. But looking at you, Colin, you have even more. Would you consider yourself a lifelong learner? I imagine you have some strong opinions on that term.

Chief Change Officer

#396 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Two

901.892

A lot of people lean on lifelong learning when they are at the crossroads or want to make a change in their lives. They fall back on education, upskilling, retooling, whatever the buzzword of the day might be. But you've shared some interesting ideas with me about skill stacking and how that might offer a more impactful approach. So what do you think of lifelong learning as a concept?

Chief Change Officer

#396 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part Two

938.83

How do you see it evolving and where does skill stacking fit into the equation?

Chief Change Officer

#395 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part One

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Are there lessons for these business cases that also resonate on a personal level, especially when we face dilemmas or crossroads in our own lives?

Chief Change Officer

#395 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part One

106.27

From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shares how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In the next episodes, we'll explore the learning required for transformation, why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skills decking is the future.

Chief Change Officer

#395 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part One

12.594

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This is a three-part series with Colin Selvidge.

Chief Change Officer

#395 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part One

1302.636

Yeah.

Chief Change Officer

#395 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part One

142.591

And finally, in part three, we'll tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Buckle up, this one is a ride. Colin, finally, I got you to my show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Good morning to you.

Chief Change Officer

#395 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part One

1602.897

Just now, Colin unpacked his unique perspective on change. change addict turned change guru. From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shared how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In part two, tomorrow, we'll explore the learning required for transformation.

Chief Change Officer

#395 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part One

1642.81

Colin has, I don't even know how many degrees under his belt. Why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skill stacking is the future. And part three for Friday will tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Come back tomorrow and join us. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

Chief Change Officer

#395 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part One

1683.376

Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#395 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part One

179.504

Colin is from Canada, the Big North, a very cold place. I used to live in Toronto myself. Cullen is in another province, or in America, we call it a state. So Cullen, let's start with your story. Who are you, what you're doing now, but also what did you do in the past? Your past, your journey, and your history.

Chief Change Officer

#395 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part One

46.417

In part one, the first episode, we'll dive into Colin's fascinating journey as a self-proclaimed change addict turned change guru. Colin's career spans continents, cultures, and industries, seven countries lived in, seven more secunded to, and projects in over 70 nations.

Chief Change Officer

#395 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part One

518.555

In your self-introduction, Two words caught my attention, change addict and change guru. How do you define these two terms?

Chief Change Officer

#395 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part One

75.96

From organizational transformation to personal reinvention, he has mastered the art of embracing change and applying those lessons to life. In this conversation, Colin unpacks his unique perspective on change. How throwing himself into the unknown led to unparalleled growth and insight.

Chief Change Officer

#395 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part One

802.654

So being a change addict, a guru, would you say you're one of those who puts in a good amount of calculation behind each change? Or is it more like, oh, it's just that feeling? What type are you? Have you ever thought about that?

Chief Change Officer

#395 Colin Savage: Why Skill Stacking Is the New Lifelong Learning — Part One

988.745

Like you said, one of the threats running through your experience is change and strategy. You've worked with so many firms and organizations, guiding them through their transformations, so you must have seen countless business cases unfold. What have you learned from these consulting projects and organizational change initiatives that could apply to individual situations?

Chief Change Officer

#81 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part One

1013.817

Are there lessons from these business cases that also resonate on a personal level, especially when we face dilemmas or crossroads in our own lives?

Chief Change Officer

#81 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part One

106.356

From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition, to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shares how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In the next episodes, we'll explore the learning required for transformation, why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skills decking is the future.

Chief Change Officer

#81 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part One

11.775

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This is a three-part series with Colin Selvidge.

Chief Change Officer

#81 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part One

142.677

And finally, in part three, we'll tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Buckle up. This one is a ride. Colin, finally, I got you to my show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Good morning to you.

Chief Change Officer

#81 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part One

1592.326

Just now, Colin unpacked his unique perspective on change. change addict turned change guru. From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shared how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In part two, tomorrow, we'll explore the learning required for transformation.

Chief Change Officer

#81 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part One

1632.25

Colin has, I don't even know how many degrees under his belt. Why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skill stacking is the future. And part three for Friday will tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Come back tomorrow and join us. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard...

Chief Change Officer

#81 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part One

1671.892

Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#81 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part One

172.958

Colin is from Canada, the Big North, a very cold place. I used to live in Toronto myself. Colin is in another province, or in America, we call it a state. So Colin, let's start with your story. Who are you, what you're doing now, but also what did you do in the past? Your past, your journey, and your history.

Chief Change Officer

#81 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part One

46.503

In part one, the first episode, we'll dive into Colin's fascinating journey as a self-proclaimed change addict turned change guru. Colin's career spans continents, cultures, and industries, seven countries lived in, seven more seconded to, and projects in over 70 nations.

Chief Change Officer

#81 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part One

512.044

In your self-introduction, Two words caught my attention. Change addict and change guru. How do you define these two terms?

Chief Change Officer

#81 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part One

76.045

From organizational transformation to personal reinvention, he has mastered the art of embracing change and applying those lessons to life. In this conversation, Colin unpacks his unique perspective on change. How throwing himself into the unknown led to unparalleled growth and insight.

Chief Change Officer

#81 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part One

796.118

So being a change addict, a guru, would you say you're one of those who puts in a good amount of calculation behind each change? Or is it more like, oh, it's just that feeling? What type are you? Have you ever thought about that?

Chief Change Officer

#81 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part One

982.229

Like you said, one of the threats running through your experience is change and strategy. You've worked with so many firms and organizations, guiding them through their transformations. So you must have seen countless business cases unfold. What have you learned from these consulting projects and organization change initiatives that could apply to individual situations?

Chief Change Officer

#258 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part Two

1025.167

Losing the built-in support systems and having to figure out how to DIY do-it-yourself everything requires a different approach. And it's not a simple shift to make. Back to you, Allison. Have you experienced this yourself? Maybe at the start of your venture journey? And if so, how did you adjust to that shift from everything taken care of to everything you have to take care of?

Chief Change Officer

#258 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part Two

106.589

Yesterday, we looked into the personal changes Alison has experienced, her motivations, the steps she took, and her LinkedIn story of connecting with the current co-founder. Today, We'll talk about this new venture, Overalls, which is making waves in the employee benefits space. They are building a network of live co-CH, including stay-at-home parents, the underemployed, and retirees.

Chief Change Officer

#258 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Are you thinking about stepping away from corporate America? Or maybe you've already left. You are still trying to figure things out. If so, this episode is just for you.

Chief Change Officer

#258 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part Two

1240.868

You're building a venture that has the potential to create transformative change for others in the workforce. Let's dive into your current project. Overalls. What is the mission behind overalls? What specific problems are you tackling? And whose challenges are you aiming to resolve? You've told me before

Chief Change Officer

#258 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part Two

1270.945

about bridging the needs of employers with a valuable untapped talent pool that includes stay-at-home moms. Could you walk us through how Overalls is creating this connection and the potential impact it holds for both employers and individuals looking to reenter or redefine their roles in the workforce?

Chief Change Officer

#258 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part Two

149.912

and linking them with employers to help reduce the day-to-day stress on employees. Will this model make employees feel more loyal, more willing to return to the office? We don't know yet, but it's definitely an idea worth building and exploring. Let's get started. A few weeks ago, I released an episode with an executive coach.

Chief Change Officer

#258 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part Two

1612.826

So let's say I'm an employer running a firm with a team. that's juggling a lot of personal obligations and responsibilities along with their work. I come to you and you say, hey, we have a network of live experts. We call them live concierge who can take care of these things for your team.

Chief Change Officer

#258 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part Two

1640.606

By paying a fee, I'm able to offload some of these personal burdens from my staff, helping them stay focused, less distracted, and feel more supported at work. And because this is a benefit we as the employer provide, hopefully it fosters a greater sense of loyalty. Is that the core of the value prepositioned or am I missing anything here?

Chief Change Officer

#258 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part Two

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To wrap up our conversation, which I've really enjoyed, I see you as what I would call a change progressive. Not just someone who embraces change, but someone who moves beyond their conventional framework and stretches beyond their comfort zone. That's the mindset I want to cultivate in my listeners too. I consider myself a change progressive as well.

Chief Change Officer

#258 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part Two

1783.422

It's about recognizing that our limits aren't really limits, but points we can push past to grow and improve. So to close, what advice would you give to people who are like you, either considering or in the middle of a transition from a stable, traditional environment to something new such as adventure, a solo path, or another big change?

Chief Change Officer

#258 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part Two

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How can they better prepare themselves to succeed in this kind of transformative journey?

Chief Change Officer

#258 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part Two

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Absolutely. Being kind to ourselves is part of the process. Change doesn't happen overnight. and even if things don't fall into place right away, that doesn't mean they won't. I've learned the hard way too, being too tough on myself. Sometimes the best thing we can do is just be patient and allow things to unfold. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#258 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part Two

198.393

We covered a lot and one of the things she shared was how some of her clients set up with the jobs, decided to move on. But then in a lot of cases, they ended up just trading one toxic boss for another. So clearly it wasn't the best move. Therefore, it highlights the importance of making career transitions thoughtfully and mindfully.

Chief Change Officer

#258 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part Two

234.549

You've also shared an interesting backstory with me about how you ended up at Overalls and how you connected with the co-founder through LinkedIn. These days, many people use LinkedIn for job searching but there's a lot of skepticism around job postings. Some of them are fake and networking can still hit or miss. But your experience was a real LinkedIn success story.

Chief Change Officer

#258 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part Two

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Can you walk us through what happened then and how you used the platform to make a genuine connection

Chief Change Officer

#258 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part Two

566.616

That's really encouraging to hear, though I completely agree. A lot of messages on LinkedIn go unanswered. And honestly, I don't respond to every message myself because you can usually tell when it's just a generic mass marketing message. But yes, luck, in quotation, is often what we call it when something just clicks in an almost magical way.

Chief Change Officer

#258 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part Two

603.232

However, I would argue it's also about doing the proper work, figuring out what you really want, what aligns with your values, your interests, what doesn't. and being thoughtful about where you put your energy, rather than just casting a wide net. I'm curious, after you landed the role, what expectations did you have? Were you confident about the move? Or did you have a mix of feeling?

Chief Change Officer

#258 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part Two

61.296

Today, I'm sitting down with Alison Stewart, who made the big shift from the stability of corporate life, in particular, over 10 years in finance and insurance, to the chaotic world of startups. Her new venture focuses on re-imagining employee benefits and experiences, as she made this leap right in the middle of COVID. This is actually part two of our two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

#258 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part Two

640.058

And now, after three years, Have those initial expectations been met or maybe even exceeded Did things turn out differently than you originally anticipated?

Chief Change Officer

#258 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part Two

923.832

You bring up such a valid point, especially for those with a deep corporate background transitioning into the venture world. I remember going through a similar experience myself, changing from a world where everything is already structured and taken care of to one where suddenly you have to take care of everything.

Chief Change Officer

#258 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part Two

953.703

In a big corporation, you focus on your specific role, whether it's creating a product, designing a strategy plan, or leading a team, and the brand, sales, and marketing machinery are already setting up, and the brand, sales, and marketing machine are already set up and running. All the support systems are in place. Don't have to worry about things like booking a travel or securing deals.

Chief Change Officer

#258 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part Two

989.459

It's all handled by specialized teams. But when you are in a venture, even if you are the CEO of a well-funded startup, you are rolling up your sleeves and getting hands-on with almost every part of the operation. This change isn't just about the practical changes or even financial adjustments. Like a pay cut is a complete shift in mindset.

Chief Change Officer

#257 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part One

1058.342

We covered a lot, and one of the things she shared was how some of her clients set up with the jobs, decided to move on, but then in a lot of cases, they ended up just trading one toxic boss for another. So clearly, it wasn't the best move. Therefore, it highlights the importance of making career transitions thoughtfully and mindfully.

Chief Change Officer

#257 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part One

106.935

Today, we're diving into the personal changes Allison has experienced, her motivations, the steps she took, and her LinkedIn story of connecting with her current co-founder. Tomorrow, we'll talk about the new venture called Overalls, which is making waves in the employee benefits space.

Chief Change Officer

#257 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part One

1094.501

You've also shared an interesting backstory with me about how you ended up at Overalls and how you connected with the co-founder through LinkedIn. Now these days, many people use LinkedIn for job searching, But there's a lot of skepticism around job postings. Some of them are fake. And networking can still hit or miss. But your experience was a real LinkedIn success story.

Chief Change Officer

#257 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part One

1132.879

Can you walk us through what happened then and how you used the platform to make a genuine connection?

Chief Change Officer

#257 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part One

12.654

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Are you thinking about stepping away from corporate America? Or maybe you've already left. You are still trying to figure things out. If so, this episode is just for you.

Chief Change Officer

#257 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part One

1282.224

So what happened with the LinkedIn story? Well, we'll wrap it up tomorrow in part two. We'll also dive into Allison's current venture, Overalls, which is shaking things up in the employee benefit space. They're building a network of live concierge, people like stay-at-home parents, the underemployed, and retirees. and connecting them with employers to help ease the everyday stresses on employees.

Chief Change Officer

#257 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part One

1326.555

Will this model inspired more loyalty or maybe even a willingness to return to the office? We don't know for sure yet, but there's certainly an idea worth building and exploring. See you tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media.

Chief Change Officer

#257 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part One

1372.035

I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#257 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part One

139.307

They're building a network of live concierge, including stay-at-home parents, the underemployed, and the retirees. and linking them with employers to help reduce the day-to-day stress on employees. Will this model make employees feel more loyal, more willing to return to the office? We don't know yet, but it's definitely an idea worth exploring and building. Let's dive in.

Chief Change Officer

#257 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part One

192.43

Alison works in the employer-employee space. Before we look into that, though, let's get to know her a bit better. Alison, tell us about your career journey, your evolution, and the transformations along the way. Then we'll explore different elements of what has brought you here.

Chief Change Officer

#257 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part One

363.484

Earlier, you mentioned you actually enjoy change. We talked about growth, about risk. And I find it interesting because the show is called Chief Change Officer, where we dive into change from all angles, organizational, personal, and beyond. But when you say you enjoy change, let's be real, most of us enjoy change when we own it. when we are in control.

Chief Change Officer

#257 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part One

401.496

So tell me, what is it about change that resonates with you personally? I remember you once told me that growing up, you experienced quite a bit of change. Would you say those early experiences prepared you for all the transitions you've navigated as an adult?

Chief Change Officer

#257 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part One

587.03

It sounds like your childhood set the stage. You got used to going with the flow, adapting to new places and people, and it seems you even enjoyed it. But then, as you grew up, you took a more stable path. You went to business school, joined well-established companies like Wells Fargo, Liberty Mutual, and Lincoln Financial. You could have stayed on this secure track.

Chief Change Officer

#257 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part One

59.702

Today, I'm sitting down with Alison Stewart, who made the big shift from the stability of corporate life, specifically over 10 years in finance and insurance, to the chaotic world of new ventures. Her new baby focuses on redefining employee benefits and experiences. And she made this leap right in the middle of COVID. This is actually part one of a two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

#257 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part One

627.938

In fact, you did stay in the financial industry for about 10 years. But then you made a big change. during the once-in-a-lifetime global health crisis right around 2020. So what happened then? What was it about the environment or the timing that either pushed or pulled you towards making that change?

Chief Change Officer

#257 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part One

870.89

So from what I'm hearing, you had a bit of a safety net. Your husband's full-time job gave you the financial cushion to take some time off, which allowed you that space to figure things out. You were able to reflect on who you are, what you're good at, and whether you wanted to keep doing what you know or challenge yourself with something entirely new.

Chief Change Officer

#257 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn Message That Changed Everything — Part One

907.97

At the same time, you were exploring the market, looking at different opportunities to understand where you could take a risk, but still manage it in a way that felt comfortable and aligned with your goals. Does that sound right?

Chief Change Officer

#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two

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Now, going back to your book, Generosity Wins, what brought you in the very first place to write something like this and with Monty as your co-author?

Chief Change Officer

#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into the No Strict Lines journey of Nicole Roberts.

Chief Change Officer

#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two

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Speaking from my own experience, there are so many stories like that. One great example is actually this show. I've never asked any guest to refer someone else, not once. Every guest who comes on, either I invited them or they reached out to me. My only focus is creating the best possible experience for them, making sure the episode is meaningful, smooth, and enjoyable. What happened?

Chief Change Officer

#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two

1344.344

More and more guests have told me they genuinely enjoyed the experience. Afterwards, they will say, Hey Vince, I actually know someone who would be a great fit for your show. One guest even referred five new guests. Completely unfronted. No commission, no referral fee, no expectations. It's not transactional.

Chief Change Officer

#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two

1373.577

It's just a natural return, if I can use this word, that comes from being a generous, thoughtful host. That's the ripple effect you were talking about.

Chief Change Officer

#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two

1443.439

But then you built a story around a fictional character, Emily. Why that choice? Why bring in a fictional element in a non-fiction business setting? And I'm also curious, why Emily? Why a female character, not a male one? Was there a particular reason behind that decision?

Chief Change Officer

#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two

1774.707

Let's come full circle to end our conversation. You mentioned that your longtime interest has been neuroscience. And every year, you produce a summit focused on brain health. I'll admit, I don't know much about this event. So I'd love for you to walk us through it. It's called Brain Summit. It happens around the Super Bowl weekend, which is interesting.

Chief Change Officer

#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two

1804.912

And yes, athletes deal with serious brain health issues due to the nature of the sport. But it's not just about them. Brain health is something that matters to everyone. So tell us more. What's your role in this event? What are you hoping to achieve, not just with this summit, but overall? What's the bigger mission behind your work in this space?

Chief Change Officer

#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two

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Great. Then I need to start planning for this year.

Chief Change Officer

#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two

2130.928

Absolutely. Next year, I'll knock it down. And thank you again, Nicole. Both you and Monty have been incredibly generous with your time, your energy, your honesty. It really means a lot. And I genuinely appreciate how open and thoughtful you've been throughout this entire conversation. And yes, we overran a bit, but it was totally worth it. This was such a fun and inspiring conversation.

Chief Change Officer

#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two

2164.925

And anything else you need, just ask how to reach me. And that brings us to the end of this series. Nicole's journey is proof that you don't need a perfect plan to make a real impact. You just need purpose. a little courage, and a lot of listen. Whether it's neuroscience, generosity, or hospitality, her work reminds us that generosity isn't fluff. It's the talk and the walk in life and career.

Chief Change Officer

#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two

2216.827

Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two

Nicole is a doctor of public health, co-authoring a business book called Generosity Wins with a seasoned CEO, Monty Wood, who happens to be one of our guests on the show. Nicole once posed her PhD to start a human rights firm. Just to give you a sense of how things go, in this two-part series, we talk about what happens when you let purpose guide your work instead of a perfect plan.

Chief Change Officer

#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two

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Let me say this. When I interviewed Monty, he shared a lot from his business background. his work with some major players, real tech titans. And he said things like, Vince, I saw them literally do this, build that. You could really feel impact through his stories. What stood out was how he brought a business lens to everything.

Chief Change Officer

#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two

We get into the science behind generosity, how real human stories shaped her book, and why the best leaders know when to ditch the rulebook. And she also helps run a brain summit every year during the Super Bowl. So this conversation goes places. Let's jump in.

Chief Change Officer

#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two

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And now, with you bringing in the science angle, I think the two of you really complement each other. Since Monty had that business focus, and I come from a business background too, having studied at Chicago Booth, I naturally asked him about something really specific, the ROI of generosity.

Chief Change Officer

#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two

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Ever since I first learned the term ROI, it was in a finance class, of course. We did all the usual calculations. But generosity, that isn't something you can plug into a formula. You can't always measure it. Or maybe you can somehow monitor it in a different way. That's why when Monty brought it up, this idea of generosity having a ripple effect, it really landed for me.

Chief Change Officer

#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two

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Honestly, I buy that concept. I've seen it play out in my own life and career. Doing things with no expectation, and then somehow more opportunities, more trust, more value come back around. So I definitely believe in it, but putting it into a business context, trying to tie generosity to metrics, that's where it gets tricky. I asked Monty about it directly.

Chief Change Officer

#256 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part Two

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If ROI is what we track in business, how do you track or even explain the ROI of generosity? You are not coming from a business world, but you know how strong this concept is in business. How do you think about measuring or recognizing the return on generosity?

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

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These days, with AI and all the available data, you could possibly turn your lectures or content into something interactive. Maybe even develop your own AI agent.

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

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Now going back to your book, generosity wins. What brought you in the very first place to write something like this and with Monty as your co-author?

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into the No Strict Lines journey of Nicole Roberts.

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

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You're a co-author in a book called Generosity Wins with Monty Wood. Monty and I had such a great conversation. I can't wait to get his co-author back to the show, which is you.

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

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That's it for today. We've traced Nicole's unexpected path from neuroscience to human rights to public health. But there's more. In part two, we get into the backstory of her book, Generosity Wins. While the main character is fictional, but the lessons are real. and how a rain summit landed in the middle of Super Bowl weekend. It's one of the most creative takes on leadership I've heard.

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

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Don't miss it. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

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Yeah. Sure. Let's start with your journey, your history, and then we'll dive into different elements of your past and your present.

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

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You studied public policy and later focused on public health. What originally drew you to public policy? Especially being in Washington, DC, a place so closely tied to politics and government. I know you also spend time in politics. So I'm curious, not just about the shift from point A to B to C, but also about the thinking behind those transitions.

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

Nicole is a doctor of public health, co-authoring a business book called Generosity Wins with a seasoned CEO, Monty Wood, who happens to be one of our guests on the show. Nicole once posed her PhD to start a human rights firm. Just to give you a sense of how things go, in this two-part series, we talk about what happens when you let purpose guide your work instead of a perfect plan.

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

558.633

You clearly have a very strong passion for driving public policy. But along the way, you realized that policy and politics are two different things. Very different. Did you find politics didn't sit well with you? What was it that didn't feel right?

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

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You are clearly a thinker, but also very much a doer. You are someone who wants to drive real change and not just talk about it. You want to see it, build it, make it tangible. And that's something I really value. On this show, I've said it many times. I love working and talking with leaders who walk the walk, talk the talk. Because these days, talk is cheap.

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

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Honestly, you can just drop a topic into AI tools, say, check GPT, get a polished script, memorize it, and suddenly you're saying the right things. but that's not leadership. Talk is getting commoditized. What really matters now is the walk. And with you, I see someone who does both. You've got the sharp thinking, the public policy background, the communication skills, but you also want to act.

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

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You want to take all that insight and actually make something happen. But I imagine that's where the frustration comes in when politics and economics, invisible or visible hands, don't always align with action. They don't always support the walk, even if they are filled with talk. Is that how you experience it?

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

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You mentioned about you, after those six years of doing your own practice in human rights, you went back to school, you finished your dissertation, but you changed the topic. I was wondering how those six years of experience, what happened there that helped you to change from one topic to another? And what was your topic? What was your final topic at the end?

Chief Change Officer

#255 Nicole F. Roberts: From Neuroscience to Generosity—Changing Lives, One Detour at a Time — Part One

We get into the science behind generosity, how real human stories shaped her book, and why the best leaders know when to ditch the rulebook. And she also helps run a brain summit every year during the Super Bowl. So this conversation goes places. Let's jump in. Hi, Nicole. Welcome to the show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. I feel like I'm meeting an old friend.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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It sounds like your journey into coaching was part of your own self-discovery, where you eventually turned that interest into a full-time practice. Now, when it comes to career transitions, people handle them in different ways. Whether the transition was triggered by downsizing, layoffs, involuntary resignation, or simply wanting to do something different.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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Now, Benedict is turning that experience into something powerful. He's built a full-time practice to help others navigate similar challenges of layoffs and downsizing, offering a shift in mindset and sharing the principles from his book, where he lays out his big three strategies for stepping out of the shadows and moving on. Better, faster, and stronger. Welcome, Benedick. Welcome to our show.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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not everyone sees it in a positive light. Some people see transitions as a failure or setback, while others see them as opportunities for growth, while others see them as opportunities for growth. Personally, I see career transitions as growth opportunities, though I admit that there was a time in my life when I didn't.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Every day, it seems like you can't escape news of layoffs, corporate downsizing, or restructuring. Today's guest, Benedict Uman, has been directly impacted.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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I used to see them as personal failures, which made the process really tough for me. But back to you, now that you've built a coaching practice and have been working with people, what do you think causes some individuals to struggle with seeing career transitions as opportunities? Why do some people see it as a setback or even feel resentment towards making a change?

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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You've designed a framework called the Big Three. Can you elaborate on that? How do you use these three principles to help your client take better control of their careers and future?

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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Benedick. You've written a book which is freely available. Through this book and your coaching practice, you're helping people through career dilemmas, layoffs, and various forms of corporate downsizing. I'm sure many listeners are eager to hear more about your insights, your philosophy, and your approach to these challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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But before we dive into that, could you share a bit about your own story? Where are you originally from in Germany? What brought you to France? And what did you do there? Let's start with your background and then we'll explore different parts of your experiences in more depth.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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Wow. You've stayed with one firm for 17 years, taking on multiple roles. Talk about loyalty. In today's workplace, loyalty to employers or employees. Even employers' loyalty to employees feels like antique. Premium, high value, but very, very few people truly understand the value. How was that experience for you? Tell us about how your roles evolved over time.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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You mentioned that you study physics, which I have to admit, I know nothing about. I've always thought people who study physics are super smart. But then in a gaming company, you were dealing with customers, working with people and creating games. How did all of that come together for you?

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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Benedict has spent 17 years with Blizzard, a market leader in creating epic gaming experiences. In today's workplace, loyalty to employers or even employers' loyalty to employees feels like a relic of the past. So how was that experience for him? For the most part, it was positive and enjoyable. But then, things shifted. Hearts were broken. Homes were shuttered.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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So, if I look at your journey, it seems like, for the most part, two-thirds of it, your time at Blizzard was quite positive and enjoyable. You had the right kind of culture, a great team, And you were learning through different roles. But then something changed. It seemed like the trigger point was the merger.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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New policies, a shift in business direction, and ultimately a change in the overall culture. That's when a lot of changes started happening for you personally, as well as for the team and the things you care about at this company. Over time, especially around the COVID period, you found yourself trying different things, staying engaged in the firm, but the whole environment happened.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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shifting, becoming less familiar and no longer the right fit for you. With the downsizing and layoffs, it sounds like that was the moment when it became clear that it was time for you to move on. And now you're channeling that experience into your current practice, helping others who face similar challenges and layoffs.

Chief Change Officer

#201 Benedikt Oehmen: From Game Development to Career Redevelopment

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At what point during or after your time at Blizzard did you have that testimony like, hey, I've been through this tough experience. Why not turn it into a way to help others? Was there a specific moment that made you realize, this is what I want to do. This is my new mission.

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

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Let's dive deep into Michael's journey and learn how to fight burnout for good. Welcome, Michael. Thank you for coming to my podcast.

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

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You have dealt with a lot of individuals, leaders, and their companies. So share with us two examples. One is a success story where your intervention led to positive changes in the individual's life and career or might be in the firm's culture. Another story would be a situation where things did not go as well as planned with your intervention. What were the key lessons you learned from them?

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

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How do these not-so-good experiences have helped you shape your approach to dealing with similar situations in the future?

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

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Thank you so much. My show is called Chief Change Officer because this podcast is my 18th career transition in the past 36 years. I always believe that change opens up opportunities, drives personal growth, and innovates society for good. So far, I've invited quite a number of C-level leaders to my podcast, but you are the first ever Chief Burnout Officer. Can you explain to me why this title?

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

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Office politics.

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

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How did you come up with this title?

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

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This podcast is about change. And right now, a lot of people, other than dealing with burnout situations, are facing change. In particular, career change, career transitions. Some are not happy with their current work and life. They have a strong desire to refresh their futures.

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

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Others are forced to change because of layoffs or in the name of corporate restructuring, cost efficiency, AI, whatever they name it. Burnout is part of this change process before, during, or even after the change. If I were one of those people in transition, with a burnout situation. I came to you. I asked for advice. So what advice would you give to me? What insights can you share with me?

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

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This will be our last question for today's session. Earlier, you emphasized the importance of seeing a therapist or a coach for anyone dealing with burnout. However, from a financial standpoint, what if it's not covered by insurance? In fact, when I had my burnout situation, which was eventually developed into clinical depression situation, I did not get insurance coverage.

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

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So that was a huge expense for me. What if people simply don't have access to a credible, qualified therapist or consultant like yourself? In that case, could you share some common signs or warning signals that we might be overlooking in our lives and careers? What should we work out for to recognize a potential burnout situation?

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

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Identifying these signs early on, I think is very crucial that we can address them in a timely, in a proper and systematic manner.

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

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Marco, you are spot on. I have to confess, I've been struggling with sleep issues. My partner keeps reminding me to sort it out. So, I'm gradually working on adjusting my sleep schedule. Just yesterday, I was joking with someone about how we don't even use alarm clocks anymore, not since smartphones took over.

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

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And right here, you just advised me to ditch the phone at night and go back to an old-fashioned alarm clock instead. I'm going to take your advice to heart. Thank you so much, Michael.

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

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You just mentioned in your life, in your career, you've experienced burnout badly. Share with us about your experience back then and how this pain got transformed into a positive force for change and eventually turned into a business today.

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

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We're all facing different challenges in today's world, but regardless of your age, generation, gender, cultural, and family background, there's one enemy that unites us, burnout. Believe me, I've been there once, twice, and more than twice. Today, we're joined by a fellow burnout survivor and a self-proclaimed chief burnout officer, Michael Levick, from the Breakfast Leadership Network.

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

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Let me tell you a quick story, something that happened just a few days ago. I was scrolling through social media, not something I do often, just killing some time. I stumbled across a post from someone I don't know. This person identified himself or herself as Gen Z. This person had written something really simple, yet profound, which is, this world is so burned out. I feel burned out.

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

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So I replied, equally simply, I think many of us feel burned out, especially in today's economy. And I added, by the way, I'm from Gen X. To my surprise, that comment got a lot of likes. What this made me realize is that it doesn't really matter if you're from Gen X, Y, Z, or if you're a baby boomer.

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

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Michael turned his personal experience into a powerful force for change, helping individuals and organizations overcome burnout and rebound stronger. We had a great conversation on his show, and now he's here to share his insights and strategies with you. get ready for a conversation between your chief change officer and chief burnout officer.

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

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It doesn't matter if you're American, Chinese, Japanese, European, whatever your nationality, whatever your cultural background, whatever your political views, whatever your gender, if there's one common enemy we all face today, I call it burnout. Would you agree?

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

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So before we talk more about burnout prevention, and how we can help ourselves recover faster and easier from burnout. There's a problem with this problem. Burnout as a problem carries a stigma. I believe this is cross-cultural, especially among leaders, high achieving professionals. You experienced burnout yourself more than 10 years ago before this topic has become mainstream.

Chief Change Officer

#121 Chief Burnout Officer Michael Levitt: How Surviving a Heart Attack Changed His Approach to Life and Tech

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Now in your business, in your practice, for the sake of helping people, helping organizations, I was wondering, how did you establish the importance of addressing burnout at the C-level as well as at the operational level? Or perhaps at the beginning, when you pioneered this unique role in the corporate world, what challenges did you face? How did you overcome them?

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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Wow. It sounds like a dream come true for you. Well, but to be honest, in life, in Korea, when we are in the process of making changes, whatever those are, it's not an on-off switch. It's never perfect. In one of our episodes, in fact, the first episode, I interviewed our classmate, Pei Ling, who is a parliamentarian in Singapore. Now, she won the battle, won the election,

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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But she admits that during that period of time, the campaigning or even post campaigning, it was the darkest period in her life. She overcame it, but it's a process. So in your case, tell us honestly, have you ever felt any moment of regret or discouragement or depression? or difficulties, any sort of those? And how did you make through it?

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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Of course, you build a lot of credentials, reputation in the political circle, which is important, which is an asset, which is a capital. And now you are playing a consultant role. I'm curious to know about in your country now, what are some of the issues, challenges or opportunities you try to overcome for the country as a consultant?

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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What drives a person to embrace such profound change? How does a lawyer used to practicing set laws becoming a chief change officer, making her own laws of change for careers, for communities, and for societies? Fatou is going to tell her own story.

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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You mentioned about building an entrepreneurship ecosystem for the young people in Senegal. So which projects make you most proud of?

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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Well, you're linking cultures, you're linking talents, you're linking skills, you're linking experiences. For the benefits of Africa.

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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Yeah, yeah. Before COVID, I was involved in the education technology space among all the countries in the world. One of those excitement actually happened in Africa. A lot of young talent, they all pray for more education, newer skills. If we think of it as we are economists, basically there's a huge workforce. that yet to be tapped into.

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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And that would be a huge productivity growth if you can make the best use of this talent pool in that region. So I can't wait enough to hear more stories, more success stories from you about linking Europeans with Africans and possibly even other parts of the world to create that kind of magic.

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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I'm so glad you agreed to come on board. Wow, it's been how many years? Last time I saw you in Singapore, is that right?

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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So first start with France and then Wendatco, right? And so there would be other countries.

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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So I'm sure when I invite you back next time for an interview, you'll say, well, Vince, well, it's not just France. Now I got another 10 countries or 20 countries. I won't be shocked to hear that. I've occupied your airtime for long. I do...

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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want to say thank you so much for sharing and I will of course like to invite you back to hear more of those magic magical stories you're trying to create but we'll save it for next time we'll build the momentum so that we'll have the part two well thank you so much I love it very much talking

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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Well, I would say to, as a conclusion, you study law, you study all kinds of law book, you memorize all the rules and stuff, but now you are making your own playbook, your own law book for change, for magic. This program, this show is about making changes, making your own laws of change. You are truly a role model of creating your own law book, your own playbook.

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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I'm really glad that I invited you in the very first place and really appreciate your time. I would encourage you since you're reaching out to different people, what you share here I'll release it as an episode. You should also share this link to your counterparts. I will. I think they would care to know about your motivation. You as a founder story.

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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I mean, why for two years doing this and then they listen to this. Oh, I know why you make this big commitment moving from... France from a stable job to a position of stability to a position of challenge or creating magic. I think they will be touched. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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Yeah. So you moved from where you were born and raised Back to your root, your origin in Africa. Now, before we go deep into the Africa situation, what actually moved you to take this leap of faith from legal profession in banking back to your root? There must be a lot of thought going on, a lot of debate, perhaps, in your mind and among your family members. What happened then?

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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Picture yourself as a highly skilled in-house counsel at one of the world's largest banking groups, overseeing a team of 50 and spearheading billion-dollar financial transactions. Life isn't just good. It's picture perfect. Now, what if I challenged you to leave it all behind?

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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I think I did well. Sounds like it was a calculated decision. It wasn't a spur of the moment thing. You were prudent enough to plan ahead. Now you move in the year 2016. Now it's 2024, eight years. You've explored opportunities. You experienced new life. Now, I was wondering, What one thing, what that one thing is that motivate you if I have to ask you to come up with one word?

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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Would you say identity? I sense that for you, born and raised in the developed economy, France, Paris, legal profession, stability, that is part of your identity. But you have the other piece of you which lies in your root, in your origin. You identify with it. You resonate with it. You see a lot of things going on. You really want to do something about it. I think identity is your calling.

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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Would you agree?

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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What if I invited you to move with your whole family to Senegal, a vibrant country in West Africa, once a French colony, to start afresh? Would you take the leap? For many, the answer would be a no. But today's guest isn't just anyone.

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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Yeah, you are setting up a role model for your children. They see you in action. They see that, oh, my mother, Make a move. I mean, honestly, a lot of things I'm sure going on in your life in Africa. And they are there with you. They see a lot of things which they most likely won't see in France. Yes, after they grow up, they can move back to France or move to other countries to be adventurous.

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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to do whatever they want to do to create impact for themselves as well as for other people because that's what my mother has done for Africa, for many other countries. So now, let's spend the rest of our time on Africa. Tell us about your time as a technical advisor. What did you see? What have you done? What challenges were you facing at that point?

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Imagine this, you are in Paris, the city of lights, where you were born and raised.

Chief Change Officer

#120 From Paris Glamour to Senegalese Impact: Fatou Sagna Sow’s Journey Through Meaningful Career Change

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Join me as I chat with Fatou Zeyna Sol, a remarkable individual I had the pleasure of studying together during our executive MBA classes in London and in Singapore with Chicago Booth. She has since moved from the well-established legal profession to economic development, technical advisory, and youth entrepreneurship in Senegal. In her own words, she aims not just to succeed, but to create magic.

Chief Change Officer

#318 Edward & Tricia: Collaborate to Compete—The Human Advantage

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As I'm listening to you, I'm visualizing this noble purpose as being at the top. And then these five principles you mentioned serve as the pillars supporting and driving that purpose. If I'm understanding correctly, these principles are the foundation for everything. I'd love to learn more about each of these fundamental behaviors. Could you walk me through them?

Chief Change Officer

#318 Edward & Tricia: Collaborate to Compete—The Human Advantage

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When it comes to these five behaviors, generosity, resourcefulness, co-creation, action, and gratitude. I know each one could probably have an entire episode of its own with so much depth behind them, but I still love to get an overview of what they mean in the context of your methodology. How do these behaviors show up? How can we nurture and manifest them?

Chief Change Officer

#318 Edward & Tricia: Collaborate to Compete—The Human Advantage

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Not just for our own benefit, but also for the benefit of the team.

Chief Change Officer

#318 Edward & Tricia: Collaborate to Compete—The Human Advantage

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Don't burn bridges. Keep up with business connections and personal relationships.

Chief Change Officer

#318 Edward & Tricia: Collaborate to Compete—The Human Advantage

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In today's episode, I sit down with two guests, Edward Van Duden and Tricia Strong, to talk about connection and collaboration. Yesterday, Edward and Tricia reflected on their own collaborative journey, which started 10 years ago at Disley. They turned a positive work relationship into a sustainable personal friendship that has now grown into a business partnership.

Chief Change Officer

#318 Edward & Tricia: Collaborate to Compete—The Human Advantage

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Tushar, you've quoted some important statistics about the scale of these problems. and we've gone deep into the method and solutions. But I want to shift from the macro view to a more micro view. We know these issues have economic implications, but why do we even have these problems in the first place?

Chief Change Officer

#318 Edward & Tricia: Collaborate to Compete—The Human Advantage

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Another way to look at it is why is collaboration in organizations so difficult to embrace and practice? Is it due to office politics, ego, inexperience, or something else? Could you highlight some of the key hurdles you see when it comes to fostering real collaboration within a team?

Chief Change Officer

#318 Edward & Tricia: Collaborate to Compete—The Human Advantage

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and a co-authoring collaboration on a book about collaboration. Today, part two will dive into the vision and framework for collaboration centered on a noble purpose and five key behaviors. What are these behaviors? How can we practice them? And why is collaboration so challenging today? I assure you, the method isn't just another software solution.

Chief Change Officer

#318 Edward & Tricia: Collaborate to Compete—The Human Advantage

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I had the privilege of getting a sneak peek at the framework of your book. You've interviewed a lot of experienced and interesting figures to gather stories and lessons. I can't wait to read it myself once it hits the market. For today's listeners, whether they're managing a team, building a startup, or even a CEO of a larger firm.

Chief Change Officer

#318 Edward & Tricia: Collaborate to Compete—The Human Advantage

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What are some actionable DIY do-it-yourself tips they can start implementing right after listening to this episode? Edward, you mentioned before that collaboration is a process. So what's something they can do now to kickstart that engine and move forward more collaborative outcomes? Any quick practical advice for them?

Chief Change Officer

#318 Edward & Tricia: Collaborate to Compete—The Human Advantage

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#318 Edward & Tricia: Collaborate to Compete—The Human Advantage

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It's far more human-centered than what we're used to seeing. Let's start collaborating. Before we dive into the five principles in your book and the noble purpose behind it, I want to ask, why does this book matter? On the flip side, what is the problem you're trying to solve with the book? From what you've shared with me so far, you believe collaboration

Chief Change Officer

#318 Edward & Tricia: Collaborate to Compete—The Human Advantage

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is the solution to many of the biggest workplace challenges. So if collaboration is the key, that means there are a lot of issues in the workplace today. What are those problems?

Chief Change Officer

#318 Edward & Tricia: Collaborate to Compete—The Human Advantage

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Because you never know when that connection or person could become your collaborator, business partner, or referral to a great opportunity. That's how I landed five job offers within three months after leaving a role that led to mental depression years ago. Today, though, it's so easy to burn and build bridges. You can add a friend in quotation in one second. and just as easily delete them.

Chief Change Officer

#318 Edward & Tricia: Collaborate to Compete—The Human Advantage

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So that's why the name of the book is Collaborate to Compete. Collaborate internally to compete successfully externally, right?

Chief Change Officer

#318 Edward & Tricia: Collaborate to Compete—The Human Advantage

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So tell me more about this noble purpose. How do you define it?

Chief Change Officer

#318 Edward & Tricia: Collaborate to Compete—The Human Advantage

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This user-friendly, in quotation, UI UX experience has seeped into our modern mindset, making it effortless to kick people out of our own circles or lives. But without sustainable connections, How can we collaborate, build stronger teams, and create outcomes that benefit everyone?

Chief Change Officer

#317 Edward & Tricia: The Gen X Way to Build Trust That Lasts

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So if I understand correctly, after your time at Disney... Both of you went your separate ways, pursuing your own paths, but you stayed in close touch as friends. Then, at some point, you reunited and started working together again, forming a company, and even co-authoring a new book. Is that a fair way to summarize your 10-year journey together?

Chief Change Officer

#317 Edward & Tricia: The Gen X Way to Build Trust That Lasts

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Don't burn bridges.

Chief Change Officer

#317 Edward & Tricia: The Gen X Way to Build Trust That Lasts

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And both of you were sharing your memories. It made me reflect on my own experiences working in corporations. I've had some great memories and some not so great ones. I remember working with amazing colleagues, some more senior, some junior, or maybe at the same level, often in different offices and locations. These were people I had such a strong connection with even hanging out after work.

Chief Change Officer

#317 Edward & Tricia: The Gen X Way to Build Trust That Lasts

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But as time passed, I moved on to other things, became an entrepreneur, and while I kept in touch with some of them, others drifted away. Our conversations became fewer, and the connection faded over time. sometimes naturally, sometimes with a sense of loss.

Chief Change Officer

#317 Edward & Tricia: The Gen X Way to Build Trust That Lasts

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In today's episode, I sit down with two guests, Edward Van Duden and Tricia Strong, to talk about connection and collaboration. This is part one of our two-part series. Today, Edward and Tricia will look back on their own collaborative journey, which started 10 years ago at Disley. They turned a positive work relationship into a sustainable personal friendship

Chief Change Officer

#317 Edward & Tricia: The Gen X Way to Build Trust That Lasts

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I guess what I'm trying to say here is, since we're talking about collaboration today, which I see as a form of relationship, I'm curious about your journey together. You started as work friends, obviously had a positive working relationship and then stayed in touch after your time at Disney.

Chief Change Officer

#317 Edward & Tricia: The Gen X Way to Build Trust That Lasts

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But how did you sustain that work friendship and evolve it into a personal relationship and then eventually into a business partnership? I think this would be really meaningful to hear, especially in today's world with the rise of social media, building and maintaining real connections isn't easy.

Chief Change Officer

#317 Edward & Tricia: The Gen X Way to Build Trust That Lasts

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So I love to hear your insights on how you kept that relationship strong and turned it into something much deeper. both personally and professionally.

Chief Change Officer

#317 Edward & Tricia: The Gen X Way to Build Trust That Lasts

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Before we dive into the five principles in your book and the noble purpose behind it, I want to ask, why does this book matter? On the flip side, what is the problem you're trying to solve with the book? From what you've shared with me so far, you believe collaboration is the solution to many of the biggest workplace challenges. So if collaboration is the key,

Chief Change Officer

#317 Edward & Tricia: The Gen X Way to Build Trust That Lasts

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that has now grown into a business partnership and a co-authoring collaboration on a book about collaboration. In tomorrow's episode, part two, we'll dive into the vision and framework for collaboration. centered on a noble purpose and five key behaviors. What are these behaviors? How can we practice them? And why is collaboration so challenging today?

Chief Change Officer

#317 Edward & Tricia: The Gen X Way to Build Trust That Lasts

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That means there are a lot of issues in the workplace today. What are those problems? As you see them,

Chief Change Officer

#317 Edward & Tricia: The Gen X Way to Build Trust That Lasts

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In the last 30 minutes, Edward and Frasier went down the memory lane and reflected on their own collaborative journey. It began 10 years ago at Disley. They turned a positive work relationship into a sustainable personal friendship that has now grown into a business partnership and co-authoring collaboration on a book about collaboration.

Chief Change Officer

#317 Edward & Tricia: The Gen X Way to Build Trust That Lasts

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in tomorrow's episode, part two, will dive into the vision and framework for collaboration centered on a noble purpose and five key behaviors. What are these behaviors? How can we practice them? And why is collaboration so challenging today? I assure you, the methodology isn't just an other software solution. It's far more human-centric than what we're used to seeing.

Chief Change Officer

#317 Edward & Tricia: The Gen X Way to Build Trust That Lasts

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#317 Edward & Tricia: The Gen X Way to Build Trust That Lasts

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I assure you, the method isn't just another software solution. is far more human-centered than what we're used to seeing. Let's start collaborating. Good morning, Edward and Tricia. Welcome to my show.

Chief Change Officer

#317 Edward & Tricia: The Gen X Way to Build Trust That Lasts

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Yes, I'm happy to be here. We always start with a self-introduction. But today's episode is extra special because for the first time ever, I have not one, but two guests joining me. A unique moment for the show. Let's kick things off, Edward and Tricia, whichever one of you would like to go first. Share a bit about yourselves and your personal journey.

Chief Change Officer

#317 Edward & Tricia: The Gen X Way to Build Trust That Lasts

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Then we'll go into how the two of you came together to collaborate. After all, collaboration is the key theme of today's episode. So let's hear your individual stories and then we'll get into how your paths crossed and what makes this collaboration so impactful.

Chief Change Officer

#317 Edward & Tricia: The Gen X Way to Build Trust That Lasts

42.739

Keep up with business connections and personal relationships because you never know when that connection or person could become your collaborator, business partner, or referral to a great opportunity. That's how I landed five job offers within three months after leaving a role that led to mental depression years ago. Today, though, it's so easy to burn and build bridges.

Chief Change Officer

#317 Edward & Tricia: The Gen X Way to Build Trust That Lasts

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So you both met in Disley, right? I'd love to hear more about that first experience working together. Let's dive into the details. Edward, let's start with you. How did you feel when you first met Tricia? And how did this collaboration unfold from your perspective? And then, Trish here, we would love to hear your side of the story as well.

Chief Change Officer

#317 Edward & Tricia: The Gen X Way to Build Trust That Lasts

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I think it will be really interesting to explore both viewpoints.

Chief Change Officer

#317 Edward & Tricia: The Gen X Way to Build Trust That Lasts

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You can add a friend in quotation in one second. and just as easily delete them. This user-friendly, in quotation, UI UX experience has seeped into our modern mindset, making it effortless to kick people out of our own circles or lives. But without sustainable connections, How can we collaborate, build stronger teams, and create outcomes that benefit everyone?

Chief Change Officer

#317 Edward & Tricia: The Gen X Way to Build Trust That Lasts

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Wow, 10 years ago, that's a long time. So after that first encounter at Disley, how did the working relationship evolve? Was it more day-to-day interaction? Or maybe project-based, on and off? Did you face any moments of confrontation or was it mostly collaborative? I'd like to hear how both of you describe the experience after that initial meeting.

Chief Change Officer

#146 From Microdoses to Mega Insights: Paul Austin on Psychedelics and Personal Growth

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I know you've written a book on microdosing. If I understand correctly, please clarify if needed. Over a course of, say, 30 or 45 days, I take a very small dose, about one-tenth of a standard dose, which offers certain benefits, as you described. But would you say it works more like a Band-Aid?

Chief Change Officer

#146 From Microdoses to Mega Insights: Paul Austin on Psychedelics and Personal Growth

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For example, during those 30 or 45 days, I might feel better, but after stopping, could those effects wear off? It's similar to taking painkiller. I may not feel the pain for a while, but the underlying issue might still be there. So is microdosing more of a short-term fix? And if so, how can we make its benefits more sustainable, ideally without any physiological or psychological risks?

Chief Change Officer

#146 From Microdoses to Mega Insights: Paul Austin on Psychedelics and Personal Growth

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I offer a forum for diverse voices to share their ideas, thoughts, and approaches aimed at advancing humanity in a positive direction. I ask questions from different perspectives allowing you, our listeners, to draw your own conclusions from these conversations.

Chief Change Officer

#146 From Microdoses to Mega Insights: Paul Austin on Psychedelics and Personal Growth

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Would it be fair to say that micro-dosing serves as a key? It unlocks potential solutions that might help us get unstuck when we feel trapped, like being locked in a room. From what I understand, Microdosing could help us first get out of that mental room. And while it might not immediately review the path forward, it offers a clearer space to start making those decisions.

Chief Change Officer

#146 From Microdoses to Mega Insights: Paul Austin on Psychedelics and Personal Growth

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Whether that means ending a toxic relationship, finding a new job, or even breathtaking career direction. Essentially, it seems like a powerful tool for gaining clarity and reclaiming a sense of control to move forward in a way that makes sense to us. Would you say that's a fair summary?

Chief Change Officer

#146 From Microdoses to Mega Insights: Paul Austin on Psychedelics and Personal Growth

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Here, I'll ask Paul to walk us through some of the common misunderstandings about microdosing and share insights into the ongoing legal and medical debates surrounding psychedelics. We'll also explore some essential safety considerations and responsible practices for those curious about this tool for personal development and leadership growth. Let's get started. Paul. Good afternoon.

Chief Change Officer

#146 From Microdoses to Mega Insights: Paul Austin on Psychedelics and Personal Growth

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As you've explained, there's potential for micro-dosing to benefit a wide range of people, not just those with mental or medical conditions. But then, it's still illegal in many places and there's ongoing legal and medical debate around it. Could you walk us through some of the common misunderstandings people still have about microdosing?

Chief Change Officer

#146 From Microdoses to Mega Insights: Paul Austin on Psychedelics and Personal Growth

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And maybe share more about the legal and medical side of the conversation. What are the main concerns and where do you see the biggest barriers to a border acceptance?

Chief Change Officer

#146 From Microdoses to Mega Insights: Paul Austin on Psychedelics and Personal Growth

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So you've mentioned a couple of great starting points. Start low and go slow is essential, especially for beginners who might feel uncertain given the controversies, legal risks, and potential side effects. If those convinced by the potential benefits but cautious about legality Going to states or countries where psychedelics are legal is another way to explore responsibly.

Chief Change Officer

#146 From Microdoses to Mega Insights: Paul Austin on Psychedelics and Personal Growth

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Welcome to my show. Thank you for joining us.

Chief Change Officer

#146 From Microdoses to Mega Insights: Paul Austin on Psychedelics and Personal Growth

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To wrap up our conversation, Paul, could you share more on some essential safety considerations and responsible practices we should keep in mind? What steps can help us approach this new tool for personal development and leadership growth with care and respect?

Chief Change Officer

#146 From Microdoses to Mega Insights: Paul Austin on Psychedelics and Personal Growth

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Thank you. Yes, I'm still finishing my breakfast. But I wouldn't miss this interview for anything. Today, we are diving into a topic that is still pretty controversial, not just here in the US, but worldwide. It's one that comes with its own set of benefits and risks. Paul has been in this space long enough to call himself an expert. So I'm excited to get his insights.

Chief Change Officer

#146 From Microdoses to Mega Insights: Paul Austin on Psychedelics and Personal Growth

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I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#146 From Microdoses to Mega Insights: Paul Austin on Psychedelics and Personal Growth

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But first thing first, Paul, can you tell us a bit about yourself? What have you done in the past? And how has those experiences shaped who you are and what you do today?

Chief Change Officer

#146 From Microdoses to Mega Insights: Paul Austin on Psychedelics and Personal Growth

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My guest is Paul Austin, founder and CEO of Third Wave, a leading voice advocating for the responsible use of psychedelics, especially within the realms of personal and leadership development. Let me make this clear. While there's growing support for the benefits, psychedelics remained illegal in many places, and there's still much debate around the safety, legality, and medical impact.

Chief Change Officer

#146 From Microdoses to Mega Insights: Paul Austin on Psychedelics and Personal Growth

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From your perspective, you're educating the world on the benefits and potential advantages of using psychedelics responsibly for personal well-being and even for the benefit of teams and communities. So first, can you share how you incorporate psychedelics in your practice and what benefits you've observed? On the flip side, what are some limitations and potential risks?

Chief Change Officer

#146 From Microdoses to Mega Insights: Paul Austin on Psychedelics and Personal Growth

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Help us understand more about the opportunities and the challenges. What should people be cautious about?

Chief Change Officer

#146 From Microdoses to Mega Insights: Paul Austin on Psychedelics and Personal Growth

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, We are diving into a topic that's sparking both excitement and debate, psychedelics.

Chief Change Officer

#146 From Microdoses to Mega Insights: Paul Austin on Psychedelics and Personal Growth

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Paul, you mentioned there are at least two types of people who can benefit from psychedelics. Those dealing with medical or mental health challenges, like PTSD, and then another group, creative leaders, entrepreneurs, and others whose roles demand a high level of focused mental power. Can you dive a bit deeper into these applications, especially for regular people in high-performance roles?

Chief Change Officer

#146 From Microdoses to Mega Insights: Paul Austin on Psychedelics and Personal Growth

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But pause here to educate us on the potential advantages of psychedelics, especially when approached responsibly. We'll discuss microdosing and its potential to benefit a wide range of people, not only those dealing with mental or medical conditions. As the host of the show, I'm not here to judge my guests.

Chief Change Officer

#146 From Microdoses to Mega Insights: Paul Austin on Psychedelics and Personal Growth

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Perhaps you could share a few stories or examples? no names needed, of course, to help us understand how psychedelics can work in this context. I'd love to hear more about how your approach compares and what it offers for those looking to enhance focus and creativity.

Chief Change Officer

#74 Ral West: From Airborne Ambitions to Guiding Entrepreneurs Toward Freedom

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest, Raelle West, is the kind of person you meet and immediately think, wow, she has lived such a full life.

Chief Change Officer

#74 Ral West: From Airborne Ambitions to Guiding Entrepreneurs Toward Freedom

1292.065

You've reached a point where traditionally you could retire stop working, travel around the world, dive into hobbies. But the concept of retirement has changed. In today's world, it's not always about stepping away completely. I'm curious, what's your personal take on retirement? Would you consider retiring in the conventional sense? Or do you have a different vision for this stage of life?

Chief Change Officer

#74 Ral West: From Airborne Ambitions to Guiding Entrepreneurs Toward Freedom

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The idea of retirement is evolving rapidly. It's no longer about just stopping work and living off savings or pensions. Financial independence now means people have choices whether to keep working, pivot into a passion project, or even take breaks to recharge and come back stronger. From your perspective, with financial freedom at your disposal, how do you view retirement?

Chief Change Officer

#74 Ral West: From Airborne Ambitions to Guiding Entrepreneurs Toward Freedom

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You and I have the longest time difference. 17 hours. Thank you for coming on board.

Chief Change Officer

#74 Ral West: From Airborne Ambitions to Guiding Entrepreneurs Toward Freedom

1449.131

When you think about this for the border population, how do you see the concept shifting? If we put on the futurist hats, where do you think retirement is headed in the next decade or two? I'd love to hear your vision for how this concept may evolve.

Chief Change Officer

#74 Ral West: From Airborne Ambitions to Guiding Entrepreneurs Toward Freedom

158.675

Time difference reflects distance. So far, among all my guests, you are the most distant one. The very first guest from Alaska. I've never visited Alaska. The closest I've been was a transit stop when flying from Asia to Toronto, Canada. But now I finally have the chance to connect with someone from Alaska. I'm so excited to learn more. Let's get started with your story.

Chief Change Officer

#74 Ral West: From Airborne Ambitions to Guiding Entrepreneurs Toward Freedom

1606.223

Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard... Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#74 Ral West: From Airborne Ambitions to Guiding Entrepreneurs Toward Freedom

198.414

Walk us through your career journey, your history, the major transitions, and the key moments of evolution. Then we'll explore different elements in our conversation.

Chief Change Officer

#74 Ral West: From Airborne Ambitions to Guiding Entrepreneurs Toward Freedom

288.725

You mentioned you grew up in an entrepreneurial family. So that vibe, the mindset of building and creating was part of your education from an early age. Then in your 20s, you stepped into the game yourself, starting your own ventures. You've been involved in various businesses since. I'm curious, how do you decide which area to focus on?

Chief Change Officer

#74 Ral West: From Airborne Ambitions to Guiding Entrepreneurs Toward Freedom

325.891

Is it a lot of strategic calculation, following trends, gut feeling, or just going where the money is? What's your thought process when choosing a business to start or invest in? And what lessons have you learned along the way?

Chief Change Officer

#74 Ral West: From Airborne Ambitions to Guiding Entrepreneurs Toward Freedom

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Over 40 years as an entrepreneur, her story is full of twists and turns. In her mid-twenties, she took a leap and started her first business. That was just the beginning. For 25 years, she and her husband ran a chartered air service between Alaska and Hawaii, flying wide-body jets. Eventually, they soldered to Alaska Airlines, a huge milestone, but not the end of her journey.

Chief Change Officer

#74 Ral West: From Airborne Ambitions to Guiding Entrepreneurs Toward Freedom

678.322

I see you as a fairly successful self-made business person. Someone who has steadily built wealth over time with discipline while spotting opportunities along the way. How would you describe your approach? In your own words, what kind of business person are you?

Chief Change Officer

#74 Ral West: From Airborne Ambitions to Guiding Entrepreneurs Toward Freedom

760.243

In your entrepreneurial journey as a woman, Have you faced challenges that might differ from those faced by men in similar positions? I ask because even today, in a tech-driven world, it is well known that women, regardless of age, still face unique hurdles. For instance, female tech founders struggle with raising money as easily or in the same amount as their male counterparts.

Chief Change Officer

#74 Ral West: From Airborne Ambitions to Guiding Entrepreneurs Toward Freedom

803.647

Reflecting on your experience across the different businesses you've built and run, what were some of the key challenges you've encountered as a woman business leader and now as a coach How do you guide younger women to navigate and overcome similar challenges? Learning from what you faced and learned?

Chief Change Officer

#74 Ral West: From Airborne Ambitions to Guiding Entrepreneurs Toward Freedom

95.836

She has owned small cruise ships, invested in real estate, and kept building. And now, she's helping other women entrepreneurs figure out the same thing she did, how to run a business and have a life with sustainability. Her story is real and packed with lessons for anyone chasing big dreams. Let's dive in. Well, good afternoon. Welcome to our show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#74 Ral West: From Airborne Ambitions to Guiding Entrepreneurs Toward Freedom

987.55

How do you guide people in building the kind of system from growing up? Specifically, how do you teach them to lay the foundation, develop the structure, and ensure is resilient enough to grow and thrive before they can step back and enjoy the fruit of their labor?

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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Yeah, like you said, it wasn't forced on you, though you were let go despite your performance. But that also opened up a chance for you to rethink, reposition, and as you mentioned, it was a friend who showed you a new door and you stepped through it. I'm curious about your choice making in that moment, your thought process. What was it like when you decided to make that shift?

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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From the heartbreak of not making the Olympic team to leaving the sport for good after an injury, she faced one identity crisis after another. But she didn't stop there. Nina built a successful journalism career that spent 17 years only to be let go despite being a beloved news anchor. And instead of staying down, she jumped into technology, starting from scratch, and reinvented herself yet again.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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Why did it make sense for you? Was it about certain skills you had at that time or maybe the financial prospects? Perhaps you saw a bigger trend emerging, but I know for most people, it's not just about trends. Change has to resonate personally too. So I'd love to understand more about your thought process and decision-making in that moment.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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I think your reflection is really important. because I've noticed a lot of people, including my friends, focus on things like money or friends when considering a career change. Right now, for example, AI is a huge trend and everyone knows is where the big money is. But jumping into it without personal alignment often feels like following the herd.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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That's why I asked about how you identified your fit in tech. It's not just about chasing the next big thing. It's about finding a meaningful place for yourself. As you explained, your background in video, TV, and connecting with people gave you a unique edge. You didn't just leap into tech blindly.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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you brought your skills with you and carved out a spot where your past experiences could make an impact.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

Today, in part one of our conversation, we are diving into Nina's journey, her training, her trials, and her setbacks. Then tomorrow in part two, we'll explore the tools Nina has developed over the years to help others rise above their challenges. Tools like the reverse resume and successful timeline. We are not talking about your typical resume or conventional ideas of success.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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Absolutely. And I think that's a great point. For anyone listening, the takeaway here is to think outside the box when it comes to your skills and experience. We often limit ourselves to what we have always done or the industry we know, but those same skills can often apply in ways we wouldn't initially expect. In my own experience,

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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A guest on the show, an executive recruiter, once told me I would meet a great executive recruiter myself. At first, I was surprised. Recruiting wasn't something I've ever considered. But she pointed out that my ability to support talent, connect with people, and bring the right voices onto the show demonstrated qualities that could be valuable in her industry.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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So, just like your own story, it's about being creative and open-minded when exploring new directions. Sometimes it takes an outside perspective to see what we are really capable of.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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Just now, Nina shared with us about her long journey, her training, her trials, and her setbacks. Tomorrow in part two, we'll explore the tools Nina has developed over the years to help others rise above their challenges. Tools like the reverse resume and successful timeline. We are not talking about your typical resume or conventional ideas of success. We are going beyond that.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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We are going beyond that. So let's begin this incredible journey with Nina.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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It's a pleasure. Nina, you've had such an interesting and meaningful journey. Early on, you were a professionally trained gymnast, but eventually you had to say goodbye to that world and transition into TV and journalism. Then you pivoted again, moving into tech, And now you are a speaker, coach, and consultant. A lot of changes.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. These days, we talk a lot about resilience. We can discuss the psychology of it all day long. But who actually walks the walk and talks the talk when it comes to resilience? Professional athletes. Today, I'm sitting down with Nina Sossaman Polk, a former professional gymnast

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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In my eyes, you truly embody the role of a Chief Change Officer at heart. We're going to dive into these transitions, the trends you've seen, and everything in between. But first, let's start with a quick intro. Tell us about your background and journey, and then we'll dig deeper into different aspects of your experience.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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People often associate change with resilience because, let's be honest, You need a resilient mindset to get through a transition, to survive before you thrive. And Nina, the reason I invited you to the show is because the kind of resilience you've developed is something truly unique. Unlike most people, you were in professional sports.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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You spent about 15 years in gymnastics in the early part of your life. And you know that any professional sport requires intense training, like a form of military training in my eyes. It demands focus, resilience, constant competition, and the ability to bounce back from failure quickly. Can you share more about your experience in gymnastics? How did you get into it?

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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Why did you choose gymnastics? And how did that experience shape your resilience? I imagine it was a crucial foundation for the resilience you've carried forward into the rest of your life.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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I remember telling you about my first impression of gymnastics. It actually came from watching the 1984 Olympics in L.A., I was just a kid living in Hong Kong, and it was summer vacation, so I was allowed to watch TV every day, which was rare during school days. I watched those morning broadcasts, which were live from LA in the afternoon, daytime. I was so captivated by the US gymnastic teams.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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They were amazing, incredible, winning all round medals. Wow, that looks intense. That looks magical. So when you told me gymnastics was your day-to-day life back then, I was seriously impressed. But as you also shared, there came a point when you had to leave the sport, not because of the Olympics, but for other reasons. Could you tell us more about what led you to step away from gymnastics?

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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who started her journey at about four years old and went on to join the US gymnastic team. In her own words, gymnastics is a perfect example of resilience. You literally fall down and get back up all day, every day, as you learn new skills. That mindset became part of Nina's DNA, and it carried her through some incredible twists and turns.

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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You studied communication in college, then went into TV. So why communication? What drew you to it? And what made it compelling enough for you to turn it into a career?

Chief Change Officer

#269 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part One

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So TV was what really sparked your interest. Made you think, this is it. That's why you started your career there. But then once again, you went through another transition and eventually moved into technology. How did that come about? And by the way, how long were you in the TV industry before making that switch? And what actually triggered it?

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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Now, for my last question, this one is a bit personal. You talk about change, the future, and human skills, but you're also a mother. Your daughter is still a student studying at one of the top schools in the States. How have you personally nurtured her to be a future-ready human? And if she ever came to you and said, Mom, I need to figure out my future career direction.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we're talking about the future of work, innovation, and why most companies make change way harder than it needs to be.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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Yeah, I completely relate to that. It's not just a U.S. thing. It's universal. Universal. Back in the 80s, when I was in middle school, my father gave me a book about how getting an MBA was the golden passport to success. And back then that was true, especially in banking and consulting. By the time I finished my MBA studies in 2002, right after 9-1-1,

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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The economy wasn't great, but finance was still one of the best paying industries. I got into it. In terms of salary, it was good. But at some point, I felt lost. I had followed the standard playbook, but I had no real sense of who I was. I wish someone like you had spoken to me back then, given me real, genuine advice about the future.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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So I'm curious, when raising your daughter, did you do anything special to make her more future-sensitive, more future-ready?

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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The last question I asked about your parenting is because I really believe in walking the walk, talking the talk when it comes to leadership. And you, as both a leader and a parent, I think role modeling is everything. Maybe in a future episode, we can focus more on future humans. how we raise the next generation to be ready for what's ahead. A lot of listeners might be parents themselves.

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#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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They may not have your exact background and resources, but they are shaping the future in their own families. My parents never had the chance to learn from people like you, but today's parents do, and that's powerful.

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#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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They can take inspiration from your approach, how to raise future-ready humans, not just in terms of careers, but as responsible, creative, value-added adults who contribute to their community, to the world. This could be a really great conversation for next time. I love it. Count me in.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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Simplicity matters not just for organizations and teams to work more efficiently and productively, but also for us as individuals. When we first met, you mentioned that this concept applies to everyone. And I completely agree. Especially in today's world, social media, endless noise, misinformation is super overwhelming.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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And that's where I'll leave you. We've tackled everything from future thinking to eliminating workplace chaos. And why simplicity isn't just a strategy, it's a survival skill. The real question now is, what's one thing you can stop doing today that will make room for something better? Think about it. Big thanks to Lisa for sharing her intelligence and insights.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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And with mental health being a major issue, simplifying our lives feels more important than ever. So how can we do that? How can we personally practice simplicity in a way that helps us stay focused, clear-headed, and mentally strong?

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#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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Yeah, as you were explaining, it reminded me of my own corporate days. Looking back, I think a big reason I burnt out was because I did not practice some of the things we just mentioned. Saying no, setting boundaries, not taking on everything that came my way. And that hustle culture we saw over the last 10 years, especially in tech and entrepreneurship, only made it worse.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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Everyone was always on the go, jumping from meeting to meeting, catching flights, attached to their phones as if being constantly busy meant being successful. But these same ideas about simplicity apply to personal life too. Half the things we own, we don't even need to buy them. And if we buy them but never use them, they just turn into clutter.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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Even small things like deleting old files, clearing out storage make a difference. Sure, maybe you have a big house, a basement full of stuff, but it is not useful. What is the point? I was just talking to a friend about getting rid of things before a bag moves, and it really hit me. Simplicity is key.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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My guest is Lisa Burdell, the top 40 global speaker on simplification, innovation, and change, as well as the CEO of FutureThink. She's helped companies like Google and Pfizer cut through the clutter, kill pointless rules, and actually get things done. In this two-part series, we'll dive into her journey, how she went from advertising to futurism, why most organizations resist change,

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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Let's move on to something closely related. Mental health, productivity, and of course, the future. Earlier, you mentioned how everyone these days calls themselves an AI expert. But the reality is, AI isn't just hype. It's not a passing trend. It is a new paradigm, a new economy, and it's here to stay. Now, you and I are on the same page about this.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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Human skills, or what I call human intelligence, are going to become more important, not less. In fact, I believe they will become a premium asset while technology itself becomes a commodity. Think about it. Apps, automation, AI tools, they are all becoming more accessible, more standardized.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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But deep human skills like critical thinking, independent thinking, storytelling, problem solving, connecting with people, those are irreplaceable. Those are unique. The challenge, though, is that we've lost a lot of these skills over the last 10, 20, even 30 years. I talk about this often on my show. How social media, for example, has contributed to this decline.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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We've lost the art of thinking, writing, and real human connection. Lisa, I know this is something you think about a lot. Looking ahead, how do you see this playing out? How can we rediscover and nurture our human skills in a world increasingly dominated by AI? What needs to change?

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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As you were sharing, I started thinking about how school used to be, how we had all these different subjects, mathematics, English, French, history, biology, chemistry. Some of us love math, some hate it, some are naturally good at languages or humanities. Now, imagine if schools today didn't just teach subjects, but instead focused on specific human skills.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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Curiosity, critical thinking, problem solving, empathy, adaptability. Just like some kids are naturally drawn to math or writing. Maybe some will be more inclined towards curiosity as a skill, while others might naturally excel in problem solving.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

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If we started recognizing human skills as areas of talent, just like academic subjects, it could completely reshape the way we educate not just kids, but also working professionals. Maybe that's part of the future of learning. a shift from memorizing subjects to mastering the skills that truly set us apart in an AI-centric world.

Chief Change Officer

#244 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part Two

and how simplicity is the secret weapon for real innovation. We'll also unpack why AI won't replace human skills, but overcomplicated systems just might. If you've ever sat in a meeting thinking this could have been an email, you won't want to miss this one. Let's get started. Simplicity matters not just for organizations and teams to work more efficient.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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You own it, you run future think, and this is the work you do. I checked out the website and you got a huge range of courses, training organizations and teams to drive change, innovate, and adapt. But one thing that keeps coming up is simplicity. It's something you clearly champion. So let's talk about that. On an organizational level, what does simplicity mean to you?

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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And why is this so important in driving real change?

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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You've worked with so many different companies, small, medium, and big. Without naming names, can you share an example? Let's say a business comes to you and says, hey Lisa, I want to work with you. What does that process look like? I'm curious, what kind of things do you typically help them get rid of? Can you walk us through an example?

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we're talking about the future of work, innovation, and why most companies make change way harder than it needs to be.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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Simplicity matters, not just for organizations and teams to work more efficient, Simplicity matters, not just for organizations and teams to work more efficiently and productively, but also for us as individuals. When we first met, you mentioned that this concept applies to everyone, and I completely agree.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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Especially in today's world, social media, endless noise, misinformation is super overwhelming. And with mental health being a major issue, simplifying our lives feels more important than ever. So how can we do that? How can we personally practice simplicity in a way that helps us stay focused, clear-headed, and mentally strong?

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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You've done a lot and you are still doing a lot. through FutureThin, a platform you started 20 years ago. That was before the iPhone, before AI became mainstream. Yet, you were already thinking ahead, already focused on the future. Now, 20 years is a long journey, and I know we can't cover everything in just one conversation. So let's focus on the key moments. Let's start with your story.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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That's it for today. We've unpacked Lisa's journey from an agency to futurism and why most companies make change way harder than it needs to be. But there's more. Next time, we are diving into the real problem holding back innovation, complexity. Lisa shares how she's helped companies like Google and Pfizer kill pointless rules, simplify work, and free up time for what actually matters.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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If you've ever felt buried under unnecessary tasks, you won't want to miss part two. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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Before FutureThink, what led you to this? What triggered you to start it? Maybe a bit of your background, both personal and career, and then how FutureThink has evolved over the last two decades. Let's start there.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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Wow. So in your own career, you started in the corporate world and then transitioned out. And this was way before coaching, entrepreneurship, and tech startups became mainstream. You've been in the consulting and coaching space for a long time. Looking back, how would you describe your own evolution? Would you call it reinvention?

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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When you made the move, stepping out of that safety net into solo entrepreneurship, what was that experience like?

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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You started this journey way ahead of the curve before it was the norm. And it must have been scary. It was definitely risky. Were there moments when you thought, maybe I should just go back to corporate America? Did you ever question your decision?

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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Earlier, you mentioned learning about futurism, how you got inspired by someone in the field, study it, and eventually step into that role yourself. Now you are helping organizations navigate their future. Before we dive into organizational change, I want to ask more about your journey.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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When you took that leap of faith, when you left behind the old path to create a new future for yourself, did you already have a clear vision? Did you see exactly where you were heading? Did you know, this is it, this is my future, these are the steps I need to take? Or were you still figuring things out, navigating as you went?

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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My guest is Lisa Burdell, the top 40 global speaker on simplification, innovation, and change, as well as the CEO of FutureThink. She's helped companies like Google and Pfizer cut through the clutter, kill heinous rules, and actually get things done. In this two-part series, we'll dive into her journey, how she went from advertising to futurism, why most organizations resist change,

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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as you were explaining i kept thinking about decision trees i studied finance and back in business school we actually covered this in a class that connected economics with strategy professors told us about decision trees and if you go deep into the math you get into multi-color simulations, big data, and statistical models. But stepping away from the numbers, the idea still applies.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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Different scenarios lead to different risks, different uncertainties, and different possible paths. And from what you've shared so far, futurists help people Master change, not just react to it, but own it, master it, and drive it. Over the last 10 years, the term futurist has become much more common. A lot of people now call themselves one.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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So basically, what you are saying is that futurism is both a science and an art. It's packed by models, data, and research, but at the same time, is shaped by real life experience. When you work with clients, it's not just about the numbers. You can actually guide them on what to do, what not to do, what risks to watch for and where the real opportunities are.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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Last time, I spoke with a guest who has worked with companies like Microsoft and Amazon, helping them with communication, marketing, and narrative. Now he has his own practice. Basically, you could call him a storyteller. So I asked him, Hey Chris, everybody calls themselves a storyteller these days. What do you think? And of course, he has his own take.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

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In fact, he calls himself a strategic narrative advisor because he still works with executives and companies, but wanted a title that better reflects what he actually does. Storytelling is one of those terms that gets thrown around a lot, maybe even overused. And I feel like futurist is the same way. That's why I wanted to ask about your interpretation, what futurist truly means to you.

Chief Change Officer

#243 Lisa Bodell: The Future is Simple—If We Stop Overcomplicating Everything — Part One

and how simplicity is the secret weapon for real innovation. We'll also unpack why AI won't replace human skills, but overcomplicated systems just might. If you've ever sat in a meeting thinking this could have been an email, you won't want to miss this one. Let's get started. Lisa, good morning to you. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. I'm so excited to host you.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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I like to think of it as a tennis match when two leaders of equal caliber face off, akin to players matched in skill. But I'll be the first to admit real-life leadership dynamics are far more complex and full of ambiguities than a straightforward tennis match. Perhaps based on my own time in the thick of these leadership dynamics, let me share a few insights.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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First off, think of tennis as the ultimate showdown where players fight for their glory, fame, rankings, and of course, the prize money. It's the essence of competition, a zero-sum game where one's win is another's loss. But when we talk about shared leadership, the dynamics shift. It's not about winning or losing against each other. It's about playing a positive sum game.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Here, the strategy is coopetition, blending collaboration with competition. not just claim a larger slice of the pie, but to make the pie bigger for everyone involved, both for the individuals and the business. Now, let's talk umpires. In tennis, the umpire's decision is immediate and final, helped by technology with clear rules and transparent procedures.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Everything happens live with instant feedback on questionable actions. And then the game moves on. Business, however, doesn't have the luxury of an on-the-spot empire. Even with governance structures, shareholding frameworks and policies in place, those in oversight capacities, such as directors and investors, cannot always see, witness and judge events as they unfold.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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This delay introduces different risks, such as gaps in time, reality, expectations and information. making the business landscape much more complex than any sports arena. Let's talk about the whole people dynamics and structure thing. A concept foreign to the tennis court where the only crowd management needed is ensuring the audience stays quiet.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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However, in a world of business, voices and noises are ever-present. Mary's got this cool idea about making everyone a mini CEO, which sounds super empowering, but then that's the possibility of everyone doing their own thing, creating little islands or silos within the company.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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the adoption of remote work these people dynamics and political undercurrents present challenges that are harder to identify and address because of lack of physical presence and direct observation as a business skills these dynamics multiply here's a thought what if

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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We bring in some specific roles to help balance things out, like executive coaches as independent advisors for co-CEOs to keep them grounded, or a chief of staff to connect the dots between different parts of the company. and executive chairman acting as a more engaged umpire, ready to make proactive decisions and address issues more frequently.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Each role has its ups and downs, but when strategically positioned and holistically aligned, they could create a kind of self-reinforcing harmony in a power structure so that the co-CEOs can navigate the complexity of people dynamics more effectively. Just like Mary mentioned, she likes putting together her own playbook to fit her career and the business.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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I've still got a bundle of questions and plenty to say about the whole leadership dance. But I'm all ears for what Mary's got cooking in her next chapter. And who knows, maybe next round, we'll get Mary and Carson to hop on the podcast with us. All right, gearing up for the homestretch here, let's dive into our interview's final question.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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The very last question that I ask every single guest coming to my podcast is about their book recommendation.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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You're like me, not just about interest in nonfiction, but about how to see the world, money, finance, which we study a lot anyway, but things that would not only enrich us as a human being, but something that would help us to stay resilient given all the craziness going on in the world is the compass that we all want to hold on to. Thank you so much, Merrick. We have so much to talk about.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Not enough. We will continue. Thank you so much, Merrick.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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So how does the AI technology impact your space, especially in the context of human and machine interaction?

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Last time, we heard a very inspiring and interesting story about Mary, transforming from a classical musician with PhD to entry-level frontline salesperson, and now the co-CEO of a rising revenue enablement company. In this episode, Mary is going to break down how AI technology is not just a buzzword, but a game changer for sales teams and their revenue goals.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Like I said, there are lots and lots of use cases. We don't have time to cover them all. Let's take a step up, look at the impact of AI in a broader sense. I'm really interested in your perspective on balancing efficiency with effectiveness. So how do you envision AI transforming this balance? And regarding the old 80-20 rule, how do you see AI modernizing these concepts perhaps?

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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And if you were to come up with a metaphor that captures AI's role in the sales space, what would that be?

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Now, Mario, with the necessary capital secured, a talented team in place, and the promise of advanced technology, there is another critical element in the success equation of any business, which is leadership. You're navigating this journey with Carson as co-CEO, a setup that's somewhat unconventional in tech and large enterprises, though not unheard of.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Could you share what went through your mind when you decided to begin this co-leadership path? And more importantly, how has the experience been for you so far?

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Plus, we are tackling a topic that is a bit out of the ordinary, the co-CEO governance model. Ever wonder how having two captains during the ship compares to the solo CEO journey? How do they make it work? And what's the secret to balancing the benefits and the risks of sharing the leadership? Let's find out.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Sharing leadership is nothing new. It reminds me of my days in the financial markets, where co-head arrangements in investment banks and financial houses were standard. I had a chance to work directly under two co-CEOs leading a global business. Their setup worked well. They shared responsibility and authority. They complemented each other with their skill sets, styles, and approaches.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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What tied everything together was their mutual trust and having an umpire, a boss above them, to make the final calls. But when external market forces have changed, internal office environment has shifted, and their personal circumstances have diverted. partnership did not sustain. That's no different from my own journey as a co-founder in New Ventures.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Initially, we shared trust and viewpoints and respected each other's independence, leaning on interdependence when necessary. But as circumstances began to emerge, When one party's behavior becomes unfriendly or, I should say, counter-relationship, it often triggers a similar response from the other side. The whole dynamics of a relationship or partnership changed.

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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Here, the psychology concept, reciprocity, plays a crucial role in the dynamics and the final outcome. How do you guys resolve conflicts as and when it happens?

Chief Change Officer

#188 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Two

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I'm a fan of tennis, so I'm thinking of if you've got two star players, like co-ceos, who's your part? At some point, something happened. At the same time, it's kind of like a marriage. And you know, any loving couples, they may at some point go to a consultant or something. Who's the empire?

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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Now let's deep dive into Mediafly. I really want to learn more about your work there. What sort of problems you're trying to solve and whose problem? Who are your clients?

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In this episode, I'm thrilled to welcome Mary Hsieh, the co-CEO of Mediafly, a leading revenue enablement company that raised $80 million in capital to turbocharge its growth.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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So you got a whole suite of tech-enabled solutions blended with human services. Yes. So how does the AI technology impact your space, especially in the context of human and machine interaction?

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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Next time, Mary is going to break down how AI technology is not just a buzzword, but a game changer for sales teams and their revenue goals. Plus, we are tackling a topic that is a bit out of the ordinary, the co-CEO governance model. Ever wonder how having two captains during the ship compares to the solo CEO journey? How do they make it work?

Chief Change Officer

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It was about moving forward, unburdened. is a powerful reminder of the resilience it takes to truly embrace change and chase success on one's own terms. I'd come to know Mary before I even met her in person. A common friend, so to speak, is her partner, Waverly Deutsch, who was my former professor of entrepreneurship at Chicago Booth.

Chief Change Officer

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And what's the secret to balancing the benefits and the risks of sharing the leadership? Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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After I heard all the wonderful things about Mary's business success in the sales space, I finally got to sit down with her over dinner when both of them came to Hong Kong before COVID. Other than good food and wine, fun conversation, I was impressed by all the changes she has led, building herself up with so much resilience and intelligence.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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As I was putting together the guest list for the podcast, I thought of her right away. I emailed her directly. Within eight minutes, I got her reply. There, she said, I would love to be on your podcast. Please send over details. Our team will take a look to make sure it's a good fit for me and Mediafly, which I already assume it is. You bet, Mary. Here we go.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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Yes, a couple of years, a lot of changes. This podcast is about change. You are the perfect person to talk about that.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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Now, let's start with your own change. I don't mean just a resume type of introduction, but more about milestones that you've experienced.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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back in your school days studying music and then move through the business landscape and now you are the co-CEO at Mediaflot.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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At Forrester, you were the analyst. You analyze things.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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You analyze businesses.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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Mary's story is downright inspiring. Mary, a proud LGBT community member and women's empowerment advocate, has taken a path less troubled. Imagine going from a classical musician with a PhD to an entry-level sales job, from playing music to playing a key role in sales, then rising to become a CEO after working as a forester analyst.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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Now that you look back, if you analyze your career life, do you see any common threads or themes or factors or drivers of motivation? What would that be?

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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Yep, enabler. I really like this word. Some of the best leaders I've worked with and for over years, they really try to enable my success even before I believe in it. They will say, just do it. I have confidence in you. I'll help you with that. I'll make you a success. That's what I call enablement leadership. That is very empowering.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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I like that term, mini CEO. You and Carson, the official co-CEO of Mediafly, you got a lot of mini CEOs on their own in their own space. They all have their own potential to grow, if I can summarize this way.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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If I had to capture Mary's journey in just two words, it would be beyond boundaries. We are our worst enemies, scared of failure or what others might think. But in Mary's case, instead of being paralyzed by the weight of her background as a well-educated musician, a mantle that could have been seen as baggage in her new arena. She chose to reinvent herself. This wasn't about giving up.

Chief Change Officer

#187 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part One

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Other than sales, business, and tech, I know you are a passionate champion in driving diversity issues forward. especially with respect to women and LGBT communities. Tell us a bit more about your work there.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Absolutely. You've answered the question with so much authenticity and truth in that. I like what you said about courage equals leadership. Leadership equals courage. Although some leaders mistake, misinterpret Being courageous, meaning that they can just do whatever they want without thinking ahead of potential consequences on them and people around them.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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So they are taking risks without being thoughtful about the consequences, the impact they create. That actually I call stability, not courageous leadership. I also like what you said about integrity. We've seen a lot of cases in business and politics in which leaders lack integrity in what they do and what they say.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Our world needs more leaders who are like you, who value as well as practice integrity in talk and in walk. Now, let's look at another C word, change. This podcast is called Chief Change Officer. Change is the central theme in all of our interviews.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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I know at some point in your career life, you've been a consultant in change leadership and management, working with a lot of senior leaders, CEOs, and the teams. Tell us more about your experience there in helping others to build a mission for change and to execute on it.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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But the corporate world couldn't contain her ambition for law. Irina transitioned from a comfortable corporate position during the credit crisis to spearhead new ventures, at some point becoming a change leadership consultant for CEOs and senior leaders. Then a few years back during COVID, she and her team were setting up a new venture.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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So much so about the change you've experienced and also what you believe in change. Now, let's take a step further to talk about another kind of change that you are really passionate about, which is energy transition. As we speak, you and your team are building a new paradigm in energy transition. Tell us about the vision of you and your team.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Whose problem you're trying to solve and what exactly is this problem? Inspire us, educate us. Like we're five years old. Tell us more about what you're trying to do at this moment and what's the impact you're trying to make.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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As we speak today, they are crafting a new paradigm in the energy sector. The mission is to disrupt the transportation industry in the States with innovative energy solutions. Towards the end of our conversation, Irina will share invaluable advice for the younger generation who are passionate about creating global change for the greater good. Here comes Irina Filipov.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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So basically, you are an all-in problem solver for me if I'm one of those transport companies. Is that correct?

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Let me be a devil's advocate for the moment. If I were the CEO of a prospective client you're trying to pitch, you come to me with the full solution. One question, major question comes up in my mind would be if I rely on you to provide me with a full solution, what if something goes wrong? Basically, I expose myself to the counterparty risk of you that is not controlled in-house.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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So what would you say? What would you respond if I ask you this question? How you managed the situation, the set of risk that I may expose myself to if I sign up for your service?

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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You are the chief operating officer in this venture. every day, you deal with all sorts of questions about the deployment of technology, the implementation of the business model, the risk management for a client and for your business, all sorts of things. As an entrepreneur, what excites you to move forward? What actually energizes you to get past the challenges to stay focused?

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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What is your source of power?

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Global change. This idea of creating global change, making impacts on others, building a better world for future generations or those, For grand purposes, a lot of younger generations, for example, MBA students, MBA graduates, they're all fascinated by playing a major role in changing the world for good.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Now, you yourself, as you mentioned, in your early part of your career, you were not satisfied with predefined career paths. You always wanted to do something different with your curiosity, with your self-starter mindset. So now that you look back as a seasoned leader, as a time-tested entrepreneur, as a change leader yourself, if you are now in front of a hall of MBA graduates and students,

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#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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What specific advice would you give to them in embarking on their career path?

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Don't ever stop doing it. Irina, this is an audio-only podcast, so I don't see your face and you don't see mine. But rest assured, I keep nodding my head as you share a lot of your opinion on courageous leadership, on keeping integrity in what you do, what you say, what you deliver, and the career advice you just shared with the younger generations.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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I can't agree with you more on a lot of those beliefs and opinions. I guess a large part is I myself personally, in the early part of my career, in the middle part and in the recent past, I've experienced a lot of those situations, issues, challenges, developed my own value system, come up with my own playbook, make my own laws of change. And we have so much in common to share and talk about.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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So when you have another free moment, I would love to bring you back and host you here for another mind-blowing session. Thank you so much.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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This episode tells the story of a self-starter who never settles, who is constantly in search of change, who combines curiosity and courage with a profound sense of integrity, now becoming a force for change. Irina Filipov, the COO and co-founder of an energy transition company backed by BlackRock. We met more than 20 years ago at Yale. We are MBA classmates.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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that link up all these different transitions and changes through all your career life so far?

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Let me summarize. You are a self-starter. You also have a strong sense of intellectual curiosity. These two forces are self-reinforcing. You are curious about new trends, new changes.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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You're not afraid of breaking through barriers, try something new, something different to self-start, to get your curiosity fulfilled, but at the same time to move ahead of the game, or I would say to set up the rules of the game yourself. Yet, I think there's one missing piece. It's courage. It takes courage for you to venture out there, for you to self-start without knowing all the unknown.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Right from the start, her clear and persuasive way of speaking really caught my attention. It's not just that she is a well-trained diplomat, fluent in five languages. She possesses a clarity of thought and the ability to communicate her ideas with strong conviction. You will surely sense this conviction throughout our conversation.

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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So in your eyes, what is courage? What is courageous leadership, especially for a woman leader?

Chief Change Officer

#186 Irina Filippova: From Diplomacy in Russia to Decarbonization in the US

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Irina was born into a family led by a nuclear scientist in Russia. Yet her interests led her elsewhere, in particular to international relations and eventually a diplomat career in the States. Her journey didn't stop there. She wanted to pursue a business career, so she went to Yale and transitioned into the energy sector with BP in London.

Chief Change Officer

#110 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part One

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So if you have kids, care about your financial future, are looking after elderly family members, or are simply concerned about financial and family planning in general, join us and get inspired by Colin's journey in building wealth from scratch. This is part one of our two-part series on Colin and his golden rules of people-focused finance. Let's get started. Welcome to our show, Colin.

Chief Change Officer

#110 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part One

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So let's say I come to you with a chunk of money, and I'm considering buying gold or silver. Can you walk me through the process? You've mentioned things like acquisition, so I suppose after that comes storage. Because obviously, I can't just keep it in my basement. Then, is there some kind of monitoring? Like, do you send reports on prices every month or so?

Chief Change Officer

#110 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part One

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And at some point, I'll probably be concerned about liquidity. How easy, how cost-effective... It is to sell when I'm ready to cash out.

Chief Change Officer

#110 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part One

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Good morning.

Chief Change Officer

#110 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part One

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I can definitely see the appeal of control. If someone owns a gold bar and keeps it at hand, they obviously have to figure out security. Not just a regular safe, but maybe something really sophisticated. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if some people still do what they did back in the day.

Chief Change Officer

#110 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part One

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Today, we are diving into a topic that's really important, not just in business, but also in every family, finance. And it's also right at the core of what you do. But before we get into that, let's start with you. Could you share a bit about your background, your career journey, and the story behind how you got to where you are today.

Chief Change Officer

#110 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part One

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Like in China, for example, keeping large amounts of cash, gold bars and other valuables at home, even in the bedroom. It's that tangible feeling of having something you can physically hold on to. is more tangible than even owning a house because a house while you can see it is tied to a bunch of paperwork just like stocks bonds and funds they are all backed by legal papers and financial systems

Chief Change Officer

#110 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part One

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So I get why some people prefer to have something they can physically control right at their fingertips.

Chief Change Officer

#110 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part One

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So the desire for control often comes from a lack of trust and confidence in the system.

Chief Change Officer

#110 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part One

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Just now, Colin shared how he got into the gold business. and why investing in precious metals is timely, especially in this era of change and uncertainty. In Part 2, which will be released tomorrow, we'll dive deeper into the risks and opportunities in the precious metal market. Colin will also share his insights on financial influences

Chief Change Officer

#110 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part One

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parenting, retirement, family wealth building, and financial education. Don't miss it. Come back and join us again tomorrow. See you. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#110 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part One

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I used to work in Los Angeles for TCW Asset Management, where I managed billion-dollar funds for institutions alongside the bond king, Jeffrey Gundlach, focusing on bond and credit portfolios. Today, I'm meeting someone else from LA, but with a different angle on investment. Precious metals like gold and silver.

Chief Change Officer

#110 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part One

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Noble Gold, just the name, sounds like it's all about investing in gold and precious metals. I'll let you do the pitch. Why is now the right time? What is the opportunity in gold investing? But before we get into that, I want to ask you about your leadership style. while you're running an investment firm focused on financial products.

Chief Change Officer

#110 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part One

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I've heard that you're really a people-first leader, whether it's your clients, customers, or employees. Would you say that's an accurate way to describe your approach?

Chief Change Officer

#110 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part One

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Our guest, Colin Plume, is here to talk about something often overlooked and undervalued. But don't worry, this isn't a sales pitch on buying gold or silver. Colin and I will dive into more personal topics. Family, parenting, retirement, and the sense of control over personal finance, as well as financial education for future generations.

Chief Change Officer

#110 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part One

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When we first met, I shared a bit about my own background in finance, which has been more on the traditional side. By that, I mean I've worked with mainstream investment products like bonds and credit, and my focus has mostly been on big institutions. I haven't had much experience dealing directly with individual investors or in the precious metals space. So I'm curious, why precious metals?

Chief Change Officer

#110 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part One

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I think this question has two parts. First, why did you choose to set up this firm focused on precious metals instead of other investment products? And second, when you are talking to your customers, why do you recommend precious metals? Why gold? Why silver? Has viable investment options for them?

Chief Change Officer

#110 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#109 Ral West: From Sky-High Ambitions to Championing Entrepreneurial Freedom

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You've reached a point where traditionally you could retire Stop working, travel around the world, dive into hobbies. But the concept of retirement has changed. In today's world, it's not always about stepping away completely. I'm curious, what's your personal take on retirement? Would you consider retiring in the conventional sense? Or do you have a different vision for this stage of life?

Chief Change Officer

#109 Ral West: From Sky-High Ambitions to Championing Entrepreneurial Freedom

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You and I have the longest time difference, 17 hours. Thank you for coming on board.

Chief Change Officer

#109 Ral West: From Sky-High Ambitions to Championing Entrepreneurial Freedom

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The idea of retirement is evolving rapidly, is no longer about just stopping work and living off savings or pensions. Financial independence now means people have choices, whether to keep working, pivot into a passion project, or even take breaks to recharge and come back stronger. From your perspective, with financial freedom at your disposal, how do you view retirement?

Chief Change Officer

#109 Ral West: From Sky-High Ambitions to Championing Entrepreneurial Freedom

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When you think about this for the border population, how do you see the concept shifting? If we put on the Futurist hats, where do you think retirement is headed in the next decade or two? I'd love to hear your vision for how this concept may evolve.

Chief Change Officer

#109 Ral West: From Sky-High Ambitions to Championing Entrepreneurial Freedom

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Time difference reflects distance. So far, among all my guests, you are the most distant one. The very first guest from Alaska. I've never visited Alaska. The closest I've been was a transit stop when flying from Asia to Toronto, Canada. But now I finally have the chance to connect with someone from Alaska. I'm so excited to learn more. Let's get started with your story.

Chief Change Officer

#109 Ral West: From Sky-High Ambitions to Championing Entrepreneurial Freedom

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#109 Ral West: From Sky-High Ambitions to Championing Entrepreneurial Freedom

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Walk us through your career journey, your history, the major transitions, and the key moments of evolution. Then we'll explore different elements in our conversation.

Chief Change Officer

#109 Ral West: From Sky-High Ambitions to Championing Entrepreneurial Freedom

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You mentioned you grew up in an entrepreneurial family. So that vibe, the mindset of building and creating was part of your education from an early age. Then in your 20s, you stepped into the game yourself, starting your own ventures. You've been involved in various businesses since. I'm curious, how do you decide which area to focus on?

Chief Change Officer

#109 Ral West: From Sky-High Ambitions to Championing Entrepreneurial Freedom

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Is it a lot of strategic calculation, following trends, gut feeling, or just going where the money is? What's your thought process when choosing a business to start or invest in? And what lessons have you learned along the way?

Chief Change Officer

#109 Ral West: From Sky-High Ambitions to Championing Entrepreneurial Freedom

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Over 40 years as an entrepreneur, her story is full of twists and turns. In her mid-twenties, she took a leap and started her first business. That was just the beginning. For 25 years, she and her husband ran a chartered air service between Alaska and Hawaii, flying wide-body jets. Eventually, they soldered to Alaska Airlines, a huge milestone, but not the end of her journey.

Chief Change Officer

#109 Ral West: From Sky-High Ambitions to Championing Entrepreneurial Freedom

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I see you as a fairly successful self-made business person. someone who has steadily built wealth over time with discipline while spotting opportunities along the way, how would you describe your approach? In your own words, what kind of business person are you?

Chief Change Officer

#109 Ral West: From Sky-High Ambitions to Championing Entrepreneurial Freedom

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In your entrepreneurial journey as a woman, have you faced challenges that might differ from those faced by men in similar positions? I ask because even today, in a tech-driven world, it's well known that women, regardless of age, still face unique hurdles. For instance, female tech founders struggle with raising money as easily or in the same amount as their male counterparts.

Chief Change Officer

#109 Ral West: From Sky-High Ambitions to Championing Entrepreneurial Freedom

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Reflecting on your experience across the different businesses you filled and run, what were some of the key challenges you encountered as a woman business leader And now as a coach, how do you guide younger women to navigate and overcome similar challenges, learning from what you faced and learn?

Chief Change Officer

#109 Ral West: From Sky-High Ambitions to Championing Entrepreneurial Freedom

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest, Raelle West, is the kind of person you meet and immediately think, wow, she has lived such a full life.

Chief Change Officer

#109 Ral West: From Sky-High Ambitions to Championing Entrepreneurial Freedom

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She's owned small cruise ships, invested in real estate, and kept building. And now she's helping other women entrepreneurs figure out the same thing she did, how to run a business and have a life with sustainability. Her story is real and packed with lessons for anyone chasing big dreams. Let's dive in. Well, good afternoon. Welcome to our show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#109 Ral West: From Sky-High Ambitions to Championing Entrepreneurial Freedom

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How do you guide people in building the kind of system from growing up? Specifically, how do you teach them to lay the foundation, develop the structure, and ensure is resilient enough to grow and thrive before they can step back and enjoy the fruit of their labor.

Chief Change Officer

#303 Holly Bond: Fixing Recruiting Without Losing the Human

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What made you decide to return to recruiting? And how do you want it to be different this time?

Chief Change Officer

#303 Holly Bond: Fixing Recruiting Without Losing the Human

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#303 Holly Bond: Fixing Recruiting Without Losing the Human

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Now, you've just brought up the final question of the day. Job seekers, whether they like it or not, have to navigate an AI-driven recruitment market. Personally, I still believe in the creativity, the human creativity you mentioned. as well as the human elements that make someone stand out as a desirable candidate.

Chief Change Officer

#303 Holly Bond: Fixing Recruiting Without Losing the Human

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But not every recruiter is like you, and not every firm has policies and approaches like yours. So if you could give advice to job seekers, regardless of age or culture, what would it be? especially for those in their late 40s, 50s, or even 60s, who might have been in one industry for a long time, but whose skills and experiences could be applicable across different sectors.

Chief Change Officer

#303 Holly Bond: Fixing Recruiting Without Losing the Human

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for candidates seeking changes and new opportunities? How can they position themselves better and stronger for this new norm?

Chief Change Officer

#303 Holly Bond: Fixing Recruiting Without Losing the Human

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Absolutely. That is reciprocity, the core essence of building relationships, every kind of relationship. Holly, thank you so much for not only your time, but your honest sharing. A lot of quotes I can create from your interview. So much information, really valuable information. Thank you so much.

Chief Change Officer

#303 Holly Bond: Fixing Recruiting Without Losing the Human

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Wow, this is truly amazing to get this kind of feedback from a guest on the spot during the show. I'm very, very grateful, Holly. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host.

Chief Change Officer

#303 Holly Bond: Fixing Recruiting Without Losing the Human

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#303 Holly Bond: Fixing Recruiting Without Losing the Human

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In the last episode, part one, we heard Holly's story of being a mother of two and taking 17 years to earn her college degree, all while starting and building a successful fitness franchise business. Now in part two, Holly will share with us why she decided to re-enter the recruitment industry. This time, she is the boss heading up a head-hunting business.

Chief Change Officer

#303 Holly Bond: Fixing Recruiting Without Losing the Human

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She will tell us about her human-first approach to serving not only her corporate clients, but also the candidates themselves. She will also offer valuable down-to-earth advice to job seekers. Holly, you've come full circle. You started as a recruiter, went through numerous transformations and challenges, and now you're back in recruiting. This time though, you're doing it your way.

Chief Change Officer

#303 Holly Bond: Fixing Recruiting Without Losing the Human

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Wow. Based on what you just said, it sounds like I could be a perfect headhunter myself. Though, I have to admit, I haven't had any pleasant experiences with headhunters in my life so far.

Chief Change Officer

#303 Holly Bond: Fixing Recruiting Without Losing the Human

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Are you looking for a job? We can surely talk about this offline. Aside from that, I believe a host, a headhunter, and a CEO are no different. We have a certain kind of superpower in seeing the potential in a person before they see it themselves or believe in it themselves. Don't you agree?

Chief Change Officer

#303 Holly Bond: Fixing Recruiting Without Losing the Human

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Just a few weeks ago, I released an episode where I talked to a good friend of mine, Mary Shea, who is now partnering with an AI-driven HR tech company. They help corporate recruiters and executive search firms locate desirable candidates, not just for transactional positions, but also for unique senior opportunities. In that interview, Mary explained how the technology works.

Chief Change Officer

#303 Holly Bond: Fixing Recruiting Without Losing the Human

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I also shared my experience at age of 51, having job interview with some corporate recruiters that felt completely dehumanized. We discussed how AI might make the experience more personalized for experienced workers. Anyone interested can check out episode four in season two. But back to you, Holly, you're very much a people person, human-centric in your view.

Chief Change Officer

#303 Holly Bond: Fixing Recruiting Without Losing the Human

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Not to ask you to be at Oracle, but I would like to know in your opinion, how might AI technology add value to your process of searching for the right candidates? On top of that, what do you think is the competitive advantage of you as a human recruiter that AI cannot replace?

Chief Change Officer

#140 From Dollars to Smiles: Michael Sakraida’s Playbook for Wealth and Joy – Part Two

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Build meaningful legacy and manage life's financial curveballs with confidence. You use the word control. In the media, they don't often use the word control. Instead, they like to use the term financial independence or financial freedom. I should take on financial independence or freedom? In the last season, episode 7, I had a debate with my friend Gargan.

Chief Change Officer

#140 From Dollars to Smiles: Michael Sakraida’s Playbook for Wealth and Joy – Part Two

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#140 From Dollars to Smiles: Michael Sakraida’s Playbook for Wealth and Joy – Part Two

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who is building software to help millennials achieve financial independence. Personally, I don't buy into it. I think human nature always keeps us chasing new desires. So we're never truly independent. What's your raw take on financial independence from a personal perspective?

Chief Change Officer

#140 From Dollars to Smiles: Michael Sakraida’s Playbook for Wealth and Joy – Part Two

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In another episode, actually it's episode five in season one, I spoke with another friend, my classmate from Yale, Katie Curry, about how our risk tolerance changes as we get older, especially when it comes to career moves. We were both risk analysts for financial institutions, so we know it's not an easy concept to understand and to practice.

Chief Change Officer

#140 From Dollars to Smiles: Michael Sakraida’s Playbook for Wealth and Joy – Part Two

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Now, when it comes to personal wealth management, how do you explain risk and tolerance of risk to individuals in a way that's easy to understand and embrace?

Chief Change Officer

#140 From Dollars to Smiles: Michael Sakraida’s Playbook for Wealth and Joy – Part Two

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Michael dives into the philosophy of financial wellbeing, showing that money alone isn't the golden ticket to happiness. He talks about the need for a balanced ecosystem, which includes monetary wealth, time wealth, and social wealth. explaining that total fulfillment comes when all three work together.

Chief Change Officer

#140 From Dollars to Smiles: Michael Sakraida’s Playbook for Wealth and Joy – Part Two

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This is the last question of the day, and I'd like to pick your brain on the rise of financial influencers, as you mentioned financial media before. Financial influencers on platforms like Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube has sparked a lot of debate regarding the impact on individual investment decisions. On the one hand, they democratize access to financial information. easy to access advice.

Chief Change Officer

#140 From Dollars to Smiles: Michael Sakraida’s Playbook for Wealth and Joy – Part Two

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On the other hand, there are concerns about their qualifications, the accuracy of the information, and potential conflicts of interest. For example, some may not have formal financial education or may promote investments for personal gain without adequate disclosure. So here are two questions for you.

Chief Change Officer

#140 From Dollars to Smiles: Michael Sakraida’s Playbook for Wealth and Joy – Part Two

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One, in this current landscape, in your views, what are the potential risks for individuals making investment and money decisions based on all these easily accessible advice? Second question, what advice, what guidance would you offer to someone looking to navigate the vast amount of financial advice online, especially from those influencers?

Chief Change Officer

#140 From Dollars to Smiles: Michael Sakraida’s Playbook for Wealth and Joy – Part Two

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How can investors, how can everyday people identify and follow advice that is both secure, safe, and hopefully and potentially profitable?

Chief Change Officer

#140 From Dollars to Smiles: Michael Sakraida’s Playbook for Wealth and Joy – Part Two

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He also takes on Wall Street, the financial media, and financial influencers, pointing out how they often miss the emotional side of financial planning. from risk tolerance questionnaires that don't account for real life feelings to the misleading advice all over social media. Michael gives a candid and refreshing take. He also shares practical advice on how we can reclaim control of our finances

Chief Change Officer

#140 From Dollars to Smiles: Michael Sakraida’s Playbook for Wealth and Joy – Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm chatting with Michael Secreta, the insightful money philosopher and author of the book titled Money, Balance, and Joy.

Chief Change Officer

#139 From Dollars to Smiles: Michael Sakraida’s Playbook for Wealth and Joy – Part One

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According to your approach, there are three types of change. Why does change matter in managing personal wealth?

Chief Change Officer

#139 From Dollars to Smiles: Michael Sakraida’s Playbook for Wealth and Joy – Part One

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build meaningful legacy, and manage life's financial curveballs with confidence. Michael, welcome to our show. Let's start with your journey, your money journey, your life journey, and your career journey.

Chief Change Officer

#139 From Dollars to Smiles: Michael Sakraida’s Playbook for Wealth and Joy – Part One

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In our next episode, part two of our interview, Michael will take on Wall Street, the financial media and financial influencers, pointing out how they often miss the emotional side of financial planning. From risk tolerance survey that don't even account for real life emotions and behavior to the misleading advice all over social media, Michael gives a refreshing and honest opinion.

Chief Change Officer

#139 From Dollars to Smiles: Michael Sakraida’s Playbook for Wealth and Joy – Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#139 From Dollars to Smiles: Michael Sakraida’s Playbook for Wealth and Joy – Part One

51.587

Michael dives into the philosophy of financial well-being, showing that money alone isn't the golden ticket to happiness. He talks about the need for a balanced ecosystem, which includes monetary wealth, time wealth and social wealth. explaining that total fulfillment comes when all three work together.

Chief Change Officer

#139 From Dollars to Smiles: Michael Sakraida’s Playbook for Wealth and Joy – Part One

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Your book is called Money, Balance, and Joy. Let's start with a all-time favorite question. In what ways and to what extent that money can buy happiness?

Chief Change Officer

#139 From Dollars to Smiles: Michael Sakraida’s Playbook for Wealth and Joy – Part One

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Tell us about your value systems in managing personal wealth. I believe you call this the total wealth concept.

Chief Change Officer

#139 From Dollars to Smiles: Michael Sakraida’s Playbook for Wealth and Joy – Part One

83.469

He also takes on Wall Street, the financial media, and financial influencers, pointing out how they often miss the emotional side of financial planning. from risk tolerance questionnaires that don't account for real-life feelings to the misleading advice all over social media. Michael gives a candid and refreshing take. He also shares practical advice on how we can reclaim control of our finances

Chief Change Officer

#139 From Dollars to Smiles: Michael Sakraida’s Playbook for Wealth and Joy – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm chatting with Michael Secreta, the insightful money philosopher and author of the book titled Money, Balance, and Joy.

Chief Change Officer

#139 From Dollars to Smiles: Michael Sakraida’s Playbook for Wealth and Joy – Part One

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When we are not wealthy... Why aren't we unhappy?

Chief Change Officer

#369 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part Two

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You are a servant leader. You are the type who wants to make others shine. If you can help your team members grow to become better people, better leaders, better managers, then you are the silent force behind their success.

Chief Change Officer

#369 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#369 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part Two

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And it's safe to say he sees life and business leadership as a journey too. We have talked for about an hour, split into two parts. In the last episode, part one, we touched upon the genesis and evolution of 24-hour race. What started as a casual suggestion on a rainy day turned into a life-changing journey for a teenager.

Chief Change Officer

#369 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part Two

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This is the last question of the day. It has two parts. I see you as a purposeful leader a world explorer, skilled in technology, but always human-centered. Yet, in a place like Hong Kong, where both of us are from, there's often a set path. Study finance, engineering, medicine, become a doctor, lawyer, or banker, for example. you chose a different path.

Chief Change Officer

#369 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part Two

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You didn't follow the typical expectations, yet you grew up in an environment where those expectations are strong. So the first part of my question is about the people around you, such as your parents, family members, and friends. How did they influence and support you in becoming who you are today? The second part is about leading a purposeful life and career.

Chief Change Officer

#369 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part Two

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We are all in some kind of pursuit of success and fulfillment, but there's always a lot of noise. Internal pressures, expectations, people telling you what you should and shouldn't do. How do you balance all of that while staying true to your own purpose and building a life that feels fulfilling to you? It's a big question, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

Chief Change Officer

#369 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part Two

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The walk across England raised five-figure in US dollars and sparked an eight-figure US dollar global movement at the end. Today's episode, part two, will focus on Chris' approach to leadership and team building, drawing parallels between leading an expedition and managing a business team.

Chief Change Officer

#369 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part Two

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Here, we'll highlight how lessons learned from life or death situations in the wilderness translate into effective leadership strategies in the corporate world. Chris also offers his genuine advice for young, ambitious talents on balancing life goals, family expectations, and career direction. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#369 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#369 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part Two

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As you walk us through this journey, from the humble beginnings all the way to raising 20 million US dollars over the years, it almost sounds like magic, but I know it's not magic. There must have been plenty of challenges along the way, not just in the beginning when teachers were dismissive of your idea, but throughout the whole process.

Chief Change Officer

#369 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part Two

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Could you tell us more about some of the difficulties or obstacles that you and your team faced? And how did you eventually figure things out? Maybe you can share some specific examples?

Chief Change Officer

#369 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part Two

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Today's guest is Chris Schrader, founder and executive chairman of 24 Hour Race, which is a global movement against human trafficking that has raised over 20 million US dollars in the last decade. I've known Chris for almost 10 years. Our first encounter was back in 2016 when I invited him to be a panelist at an event I hosted on education technology.

Chief Change Officer

#369 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part Two

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which is, however high the mountain is, there's always another one higher. That idea of always seeing a higher peak resonates with what you are saying. This philosophy seems not apply only to how you've built this charity, but also to your approach in many of the business ventures you've been involved in.

Chief Change Officer

#369 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part Two

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So far, our discussion has been focused a lot on your charity work. but I also know you've been involved in a wide range of businesses over the years. Rather than focusing on one industry or one firm, let's talk more broadly about your business endeavors. You've had your hands in so many different ventures across different cultures. Tell us a bit about your overall approach

Chief Change Officer

#369 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part Two

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You've shared your philosophy earlier, but how have you integrated that into the for-profit business world? How do you use it to drive business growth, build strong teams, and achieve financial goals for the businesses you've been part of?

Chief Change Officer

#369 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part Two

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Chris is sharp, well-read, and definitely unconventional. He took a leave of absence from Harvard Spent an extended period of time away and eventually finished his studies in neuroscience while also building and growing tech businesses around the world. Along the way, he founded a charity based on his love for expeditions.

Chief Change Officer

#67 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part Two

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Her life has revolved around battling this disease, something she never imagined facing. As she says, if life didn't give us adversity and challenges, This story is too powerful and real for just one episode. In part one, Athena shares her experience with Lyme disease, a condition that remains poorly understood but has profoundly impacted her health.

Chief Change Officer

#67 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation. Today, I'm talking to Athena Bronson, a real estate agent from Denver, Colorado. No, we are not talking about real estate. Instead, we dive into her extraordinary journey of resilience.

Chief Change Officer

#67 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part Two

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One thing I add to that is when you are practicing, this mindset shift happens. and making those small changes or steps forward. Make it visible. Grab an actual notebook, not on the computer, but a real paper notebook and pen or even a board you can put up on the wall. Write down each small win check it off, and create a visual reminder that says, I did it.

Chief Change Officer

#67 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part Two

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That simple action of writing, seeing those check marks, and having a visual cue of your progress can really inform that sense of accomplishment. I think it's a powerful way to feel and see your growth over time.

Chief Change Officer

#67 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part Two

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The power of pen and paper, there's something to it. Put your smartphone aside, really engage with the old school pen and paper. Writing things down this way makes it feel more real, more lasting.

Chief Change Officer

#67 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part Two

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Jodie Foster once said, all you need to make a movie is pen, paper, and confidence. Despite her success as an actor, she didn't step into directing until later in her career, initially thinking she needed to master every technical detail. But as she shared in her master class, she realized that those three essentials, pen, paper, and confidence were all she needed to start.

Chief Change Officer

#67 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part Two

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It's such a powerful reminder how simplicity and self-belief can be the true foundation for creating something meaningful. And sustainable. That is beautiful. Of course, I know all the scripts were crafted by a copywriter. But it felt so authentic. I believe she was speaking directly from her heart and her experience. It's so powerful.

Chief Change Officer

#67 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part Two

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So I'll leave you with that and share it with my listeners too. Pen, paper, that's power in them. A journal as well, by the way. And of course, a bit of confidence. Thank you so much, Athena.

Chief Change Officer

#67 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part Two

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Mm.

Chief Change Officer

#67 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part Two

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She'll talk about how she caught it, what she's endured, and the fight to survive. Today in part two, Asina will share how she not only survived, but found ways to thrive, rebuild her support system, and grow her career once again. I really resonate with what you said about being our biggest advocate, especially in tough times.

Chief Change Officer

#67 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part Two

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We hear a lot about IQ and EQ, emotional quotient, emotional intelligence. But there's another measure, adversity quotient or AQ, which seems less talked about yet. So crucial. I think we are all starting to see how important it really is. Your experience is a powerful example of this. Physical pain is intense and medications might help here and there. Maybe make sleep easier.

Chief Change Officer

#67 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part Two

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But that's only part of it. It's the mental resilience that really keeps us going. Especially in those moments when you are alone, in pain, facing it all. What stands out from what you've just shared is how you found ways to mentally change your focus, even on the small things, to help you stay grounded. It seems like that's been your best defense and maybe even your offense.

Chief Change Officer

#67 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part Two

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You've talked about how you help yourself normalize the situation so that life and work could go on. You kept earning, kept things moving, especially with those high medical costs. Even with insurance, it still adds up. But beyond that, you mentioned the importance of building a support system with mentors, coaches, and others, which I think is crucial.

Chief Change Officer

#67 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part Two

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Can you share more about how you started building that from scratch? and how you went about finding the right people, those who really became the perfect fit for your journey. Eventually, it seems like it grew into a really strong support system. One that not only provided you the help you needed, but also gave you a true sense of community.

Chief Change Officer

#67 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part Two

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At the peak of her real estate career, feeling invincible and unstoppable, Athena's life took an unexpected turn. Strange health issues appeared, and she was eventually diagnosed with Lyme disease, a condition that would change everything. For the past seven years, Athena has lived in chronic pain. relying on plasma transfusions four days each month just to keep going.

Chief Change Officer

#67 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part Two

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You shared so much today about building a support system, rewiring your mindset, and finding ways to move forward is incredibly helpful for those out there who might be in the middle of a life transition, just like you were. If you don't have a support system yet, there's still feelings stuck. And they are struggling with that rewiring process. What would you say to them?

Chief Change Officer

#67 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part Two

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What advice or encouragement would you offer to help them take that next step towards doing better, especially after listening to this episode?

Chief Change Officer

#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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Moving from corporate roles to entrepreneurship, to taking risks. The challenges can be very daunting for more mature individuals. So my question for you is, if an entrepreneur from Gen X or the baby boomer generation approaches you, wanting to do something meaningful to create a legacy.

Chief Change Officer

#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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She'll discuss the why behind her actions, what Wiseheart is exactly, who the target customers are, and how she plans to help these people. Lastly, where the name Wiseheart originated. If you're just joining this series, I strongly encourage you to check out the previous two parts.

Chief Change Officer

#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

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They have ideas that could solve problems in industry they've known for decades, but they may not be as tech savvy as a lot of people perceive them that way. Or the pitch is not modern or sexy. How would you advise them? How would you help them balance the passion for the project with the logical aspects of launching a new venture at late age?

Chief Change Officer

#225 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Three

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. If you've been following closely our special three-part Love & Logic series, you know this episode is the final session, the finale of our trilogy, so to speak.

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We started the series by focusing on Waverly's personal journey, the love and logic behind her career path and experiences. Then in part two, we explored a significant chapter of her career, 22 years at Chicago Bull. There, she taught and coached a well-defined group of highly logical talents who were passionate about innovation, change, and entrepreneurship.

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It's not just about... tricking your mindset or upgrading your skill, learning new technologies and branching out, the market itself is transforming. I see a future where new types of jobs and careers emerge, roles we haven't even imagined The names or labels for these positions might not even exist today.

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But give it a year, two or three years max, thanks to advancement in AI and other technologies, we're going to see work processes and roles evolve in ways we can't yet imagine. I view this shifting career landscape not just as a transition, but as an origin of growth opportunities for everyone, whether they are in 40s, 50s, or even 60s. Health is, of course, a vital consideration.

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As long as we are healthy, those of us with sound minds and cross-generational experience, particularly in people skills and relationship building, will find immense value. These skills are crucial even for AI-focused tech companies like OpenAI. They're looking for individuals who can bridge the human technology gap, making these seemingly complex more approachable and human relevant.

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So we are at the end of our interview, hopefully. This is the first time in my podcast that I create a three-part series on a single topic and a single guest. You are the first person. How do you find this experience yourself?

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That's one important question I haven't asked you yet. I kind of guessed the reason, but I'd like you to share with us in the show the name of your firm, Wiseheart. Any thought process behind that? Could you share your little secret with us?

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From that structured environment, we transitioned to discussing her current role as a coach for a broader and more diverse group of entrepreneurs. We also touched on the topic of AI human coaching, where AI serves as the powerhouse of logic. While AI can create flawless pitch decks and resumes, Waverly emphasizes that building a business is about fostering human relationships.

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So, Waverly, thank you so much. We got so much good insights from you today. So, I definitely would invite you back for another session. Thank you so much for your time.

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A special thanks to Waverly for sharing two hours of her valuable time for such amazing and candid conversation. That's a wrap on our three-part series on love and logic. For those who appreciate Waverly's insights and teachings, be sure to explore the other two episodes of this series if you enjoyed this finale. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

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AI might set the stage. but it's the human touch that builds real connections with investors and employers. Let our finale begin. Let's dive into your newest venture, Wiseheart. I'm really curious about how you plan to continue supporting entrepreneurs with this new initiative. Over the years, you've coached and judged so many entrepreneurs. So for a moment, let's switch gears.

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I'll put on my coach's hat and step into the shoes of a new venture challenge judge. Imagine you're now pitching Wiseheart to me. So tell me, what exactly is Wiseheart? What's the core mission there? Whose problem are you trying to tackle? I'd like to learn more about the specific characteristics of the people you're trying to help.

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More importantly, how are you going about addressing their challenges?

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Today, we'll come full circle and refocus on Waverly herself. She spent 22 years teaching at Chicago Booth, where one of her signature courses was building new ventures. Now, she is building her own venture called Wiseheart. In this episode, you'll hear her pitch. As you listen to our conversation, put on your entrepreneur coach hat and ask yourself, How compelling is her pitch?

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Absolutely. I remember your tagline, tough love for entrepreneurs. I also recall that a few years back, you published an article about LGBTQ entrepreneurs in the Chicago Booth Review. I read the article myself, and it highlighted how underrepresented this group is in the entrepreneurial community. From what I remember, you discussed challenges like funding and general support.

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It wouldn't surprise me if you planned to focus more on supporting them going forward.

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Yeah, who knows what the future holds, especially with the election coming up. You mentioned the ongoing issues with LGBTQ identities being illegal in many places. It's a complex landscape. I also want to touch on ageism and other critical but often overlooked diversity issues. You are a baby boomer with extensive experience across various technological and economic cycles.

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Speaking of age, many of our listeners, whether Gen X like myself or baby boomers like you might have retired or been laid off for various reasons. Yet, despite their valuable experience, they face entrenched ageism in the workplace and in entrepreneurship. As we discuss how to balance the heart and the head, love and logic, when making career decisions involving

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Since leaving that structured academic environment, she has transitioned to her current role as a coach for a more diverse and larger group of entrepreneurs. Throughout my personal experience, having both official and unofficial mentors and coaches has been profoundly beneficial. is not just about the outcomes, but the process.

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For listeners, NVC stands for New Venture Challenge. That's what Waverly referred to in her example. NVC is a top-ranked flagship accelerator program for entrepreneurs. That's programmed under Polsky Center for Entrepreneurship and Innovation at the University of Chicago. I'll attach the web link in the show notes in case anyone is interested.

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Now, let's step away from the structured environment of a business school. You are now an independent consultant and coach. You are not dealing with a defined group of talents. The world has become your client base. Entrepreneurs of varying ages, generations, and cultures and educational level eat with their unique venture ideas.

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While some may resettle MBAs using more logic than passion than love, others might remind you of younger MBAs or even undergrads. Yet the audience you engage with now is much broader and more diverse. I'm curious about how you've adapted or scaled your approach in this new role

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How do you tailor your methods to meet the needs of such a varied audience, especially when it comes to refining their pitches and developing their venture ideas?

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#224 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This episode is the second part of our three-part series titled Love & Logic, featuring Waverly Deutsch as our special guest.

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And more importantly, I've learned so much from the real life experiences of humans, my supervisors, teachers, colleagues, classmates, and even my life partner, who was once my teacher. These individuals have provided me with immense love and helped me refine my logic. human experience has always been critical to my personal and professional development.

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You really are an excellent listener. I think part of that comes from your deep understanding of the situation at hand. And another big part is your communication skills. You're not just articulate. Once you understand what someone is going through, you take the time to think and analyze before responding in a way that really resonates with them.

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I think that's what makes you such a good listener. It's not just about using your ears, but also engaging your brain and then responding thoughtfully. I can definitely vouch for that.

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Absolutely. As a coach, I've realized that true listening is rare. We often hear about the importance of listening skills on social media, but ironically, social media by itself is a one-way means of communication. Switching back to coaching, I've done a fair amount of coaching myself, working with entrepreneurs and professionals.

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What I've noticed is that I can make a strong impression right from the first meeting. Often, the subjects spend 10 or even 15 minutes sharing their problems and situations, and I listen intently. Then, I'll distill everything they've said into maybe 5 to 10 sentences at most. They're usually amazed and say, yes, exactly. That's exactly what I meant. It goes beyond verbal or written skills.

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It's about truly listening, capturing the essence of what they are saying, and then reflecting it back to them in their own language. That's how they realize, wow, you really get me. That's how you build trust as a coach. That's been my experience.

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As we enter the age of AI, Waverly and I will also discuss the role of human coaches. In this still developing scenario, AI is the powerhouse of logic. While decent coaches like Waverly represent love, providing that essential human touch in the coaching process. Without further ado, let's get started. Now, let's dive into a significant chapter of your career at Chicago Booth.

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Do you think AI could be your competitor in coaching? It's multilingual and has incredible computational abilities with our theme of love and logic. where AI represents logic and you as a human coach embody love. How do you see AI supporting your coaching effort? And on the flip side, how could it possibly diminish the distinctiveness of your skills?

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We kick off today's episode with Waverly sharing how her roles as a teacher, coach, and guide have helped different kinds of entrepreneurs and business people strike the right balance between logic-driven calculations and emotionally driven desires for new ventures. Then we shifted the angle, step up and look into the role of human coaches in the age of AI.

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where you've dedicated 22 years to teaching and coaching the environment there was highly structured and students ranging from college undergrads to full-time mbas about mid-20s and late 20s and executives who are mid-30s to mid-40s All of them represented a distinctly logical and talented group of people.

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In this still developing scenario, AI is the powerhouse of logic, while seasoned coaches like Waverly represent love, providing the essential human touch in the coaching process. As we speak, we are already seeing a new wave of tech products called AI agents. So, what will happen with this new norm? As Waverly argues, building a business is fundamentally about building human relationships.

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She likens it to kosher, moving from one stage to the next. So, while the future might be digital, human connections will remain at the heart of business and personal growth. In the third part of our series, we'll come full circle and focus back on Waverly herself. She's now more than a coach. She's an entrepreneur herself, actively building her own new venture.

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It's a fascinating mix of her ever-changing experiences. Stay tuned. We'll explore that in the next episode. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

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Many of these students, like myself, came from very strong corporate backgrounds where we were primarily trained to think with our heads over our head. With that in mind, I'm curious about your perspective about them. They came to you. very eager to explore and explode their passions for innovation, for change, and for entrepreneurship. What common challenges did you observe them facing?

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That's the first part of my question. For the second part, given those challenges you've identified, how have you leveraged your own experiences to guide them? Do you find yourself offering more love, i.e. emotional support, over logic, i.e. calculated strategies? Or is it a mix of both? or depending on individuals or segments of individuals?

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Here, she explores from three perspectives how the intricate balance of love and logic shapes our career decisions and life choices. The last episode delved into Waverly's personal journey. looking into the love and logic that have guided her career path and experiences.

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Can you share with us some specific examples?

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In this episode, which focuses on her role as a teacher and expert guide, we'll dive into a major chapter of her life, 22 years at Chicago Booth. There, she taught and coached a sharply focused group of highly logical talents. all deeply engaged in their passion for innovation, change, and entrepreneurship.

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But in their eyes, she isn't being productive, not even trying to do anything meaningful. It's not about making big money. It's about learning something, adding value, contributing in some way. But she seems to have taken the idea of not needing a traditional job to the extreme, believing that work itself isn't necessary for her generation.

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Now, the reason I bring this up is because your book is titled, Employment is Dead. I understand what you mean by that. I don't misinterpret it. But I can see how some people might. They might take it at face value and think, Oh, we don't have to work anymore. We don't need offices, five-day work weeks, or even jobs at all. I don't think that's the message you're trying to send.

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So my last question to you is this. Do you really believe employment is dead? And more importantly, what is your true interpretation of that phrase? Whether someone watching this is 15, 25, 35, or 45, How do you want them to understand what you mean so the title doesn't get misinterpreted as something superficial?

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#176 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

In part one, we explore her incredible journey from shaping policy in Washington, D.C. to securing venture capital through a chance encounter at a Starbucks. She shares how risk-taking, adaptability, and breaking the old rules shaped her success. Then in part two, we tackle the future of employment. Why degrees aren't what they used to be? How AI and Web3 are reshaping jobs?

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Embrace life stage flexibility with purpose. We need to work. We need to contribute, put in the effort, and build our lives and careers. There are so many different ways to do that now. That's the message. In that sense, employment isn't dead. It's just evolving. The traditional model may be fading. but it's being reimagined in new and meaningful ways. Absolutely. Deborah, thank you so much.

Chief Change Officer

#176 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. A few days ago, we published a three-part series with George Dream, the co-author of the book, Employment is Dead. But we are not done yet.

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I really appreciate you taking the time for this conversation. And congratulations on the entire journey of putting this book together. If I make it to the U.S., I'll be sure to grab an autographed copy from both of you.

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Of course. I'm not Bloomberg. I don't ask cookie-cutter questions. And that's a wrap on this two-part series with Deborah Perry Pistioni. We've torn apart outdated career playbooks, reimagined what work could be, and tackled how both workers and companies must evolve. The question now is, are you ready for what's next? Because the future of work isn't coming. It's already here.

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If you found this conversation valuable, share it, rate the show, and let's keep pushing these conversations forward. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#176 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

And what companies must do before it's too late? And of course, we'll answer the big question. Is employment really dead? Get ready for bold, eye-opening conversation. Let's jump in. I had the privilege of reading through the book before it was published. Now, I'll be honest, I skimmed through a lot of it. Certain chapters really stood out to me, especially the one on credentials.

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Before starting my podcast, especially before COVID, I was deeply involved in the learning, education, technology space. I was speaking at conferences around the world on the future of work, including South by Southwest. So when you covered credentials, education and training, that chapter really caught my attention.

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Now, looking at one of the quotes from that chapter, he wrote, Getting more employers to rethink their degree requirements will take hard work. Employees have grown up in a system where the four-year degree is the proxy, and that's a perception that is risky to do things differently. I completely agree. But the big question is, how do we actually change that mindset?

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What's your take on making this shift happen?

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If I'm hearing you correctly, and I say this aligns with my own perspective as well, some jobs still operate within a value system where having a degree is essential. Take, for example, a two-year MBA. When I was on a call with Josh, I told him, you and I are both beneficiaries of a formal brand name degree.

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I went to Harvard Business School, I went to Yale School of Management, and I even earned two MBAs myself. Now, I'm 51, turning 52 soon, which means I grew up in the 70s, in a world where the playbook was clear. Study hard, get a degree, work hard in a corporation, climb the ladder. That's success. That was the mainstream and proven belief at the time.

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#176 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

We are doubling down on this conversation. Today, I've invited his co-author, Deborah Perry-Piccioni. an entrepreneur, Silicon Valley insider, and best-selling author of the book Secrets of Silicon Valley. Before diving into the world of startups, Debra spent 18 years in Washington, D.C., working in the White House, on Capitol Hill, and as a political commentator for MSNBC, Fox News, and CNN.

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And there was nothing inherently wrong with it because it worked in that era. But with the internet and new technologies, the world has changed. We're now exposed to so many more possibilities with different ways to achieve the same goal. if you want to earn a million dollars a year. There are multiple legitimate legal ways to do it.

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In the past, one clear path was joining Goldman Sachs, earning a solid salary plus bonuses. And if it was a good year, you would hit that million dollar mark or even more. And that's still a path that works for some people today. But does that mean going to Goldman Sachs is outdated or not trendy anymore? Not at all. It's still the perfect fit for certain individuals.

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The same goes for Google, any other top-tier company. It all comes down to finding the best fit for your needs, skills, interests, and strengths. I believe if technology can be open source, then career development can be open minded in the same way. In the end, technology is the enabler. It doesn't take how we succeed, but it empowers us to choose our own version of success.

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So far, we've talked a lot about what we as individuals can do, how we navigate our careers and lives in this new era. But for employers, it's a whole different challenge. In your book, you lay out a full transformation map. And when I saw it, I thought, wow, that's a lot a company can do.

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Let's say I'm the CEO of a sizable company and you and George come to me and say, Vince, there's so many opportunities to rethink and transform your organization. My first reaction would be, great, but where do I start? What would you advise me to tackle first? What's the one thing I absolutely must focus on before everything else?

Chief Change Officer

#176 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

But everything changed when she moved to Silicon Valley. Instead of politics, power, and division, she discovered a culture built on collaboration, innovation, and risk-taking. That shift led her to build six companies, write multiple best-selling books, and now co-found the Work3 Institute, helping businesses navigate the future of work. We're featuring Debra in a two-part series.

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Great. Now, last question of the day. But before I ask, let me share a quick story. A friend of mine has a niece, 27 years old. She still hasn't graduated from college. She's been stuck in school, hasn't worked a single job, not even part-time, not volunteering, not freelancing, not investing, nothing. Her parents, who are middle class, fully support her.

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While the title is Employment is Dead, if I'm hearing you correctly, this book is really a message to employers, almost a wake-up call With all the new technologies happening, the traditional value chain of employment is being disrupted, whether companies like it or not. And if they don't adapt, they risk losing their best people, whether to solo partnership, competitors, or simply disengagement.

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Is that the core message you're trying to get across? And is this the primary audience you are speaking to?

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Sure. Now, I notice the book includes a story about how you and George met. Two people from different backgrounds who, according to the book, hadn't even met before. Yet somehow, this collaboration just clicked. From your perspective, what was the spark? What made you think, hey, this is someone I need to work with?

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

In part one, we explore her incredible journey from shaping policy in Washington, D.C. to securing venture capital through a chance encounter at a Starbucks. She shares how risk-taking, adaptability, and breaking the old rules shaped her success. Then in part two, we tackle the future of employment. Why degrees aren't what they used to be? How AI and Web3 are reshaping jobs?

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. A few days ago, we published a three-part series with George Dream, the co-author of the book, Employment is Dead. But we are not done yet.

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#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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What does each of you bring to the table? I imagine there are similarities that made the collaboration work, but also key differences in your backgrounds and experiences that add unique perspectives. Can you share a bit about that, what you each contribute, and how those differences shape the work you're doing together as a partnership?

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#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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I had the privilege of reading through the book before it was published. Now, I'll be honest, I skimmed through a lot of it. Certain chapters really stood out to me, especially the one on credentials. Before starting my podcast, especially before COVID, I was deeply involved in the learning education technology space.

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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I was speaking at conferences around the world on the future of work, including South by Southwest. So when you covered credentials, education, and training, that chapter really caught my attention. Now, looking at one of the quotes from that chapter, he wrote, Getting more employers to rethink their degree requirements will take hard work.

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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Employees have grown up in a system where the four-year degree is the proxy, and that's a perception that is risky to do things differently. I completely agree. But the big question is, how do we actually change that mindset? What's your take on making this shift happen?

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That's a web for today. We've covered Deborah's incredible journey from DC politics to Silicon Valley startups. and why the old way of working just doesn't cut it anymore. But we're just getting started. In part two, we'll break down the real shift happening in the workforce, why college degrees are losing the grip, and how AI and Web3 are reshaping jobs.

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and what companies must do before it's too late. Plus, we'll tackle the big question. Is employment really dead or just evolving? Don't miss it. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host.

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

And what companies must do before it's too late? And of course, we'll answer the big question. Is employment really dead? Get ready for bold, eye-opening conversation. Let's jump in. Good morning, Deborah. Welcome to our show. You are the first interview I conduct in the new year. Thank you so much for your time.

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Until next time, take care.

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#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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You've had such an incredible journey from Washington DC politics to Silicon Valley startups, from entrepreneurship to authoring multiple books, building six companies, and now shaping the future of work. Looking back, do you see a common thread that ties all these transitions together?

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

We are doubling down on this conversation. Today, I've invited his co-author, Deborah Perry-Piccioni. an entrepreneur, Silicon Valley insider, and best-selling author of the book Secrets of Silicon Valley. Before diving into the world of startups, Debra spent 18 years in Washington, D.C., working in the White House, on Capitol Hill, and as a political commentator for MSNBC, Fox News, and CNN.

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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It sounds like you're someone who's highly observant, sensitive to your environment, and deeply aware of the trends around you. You mentioned your background in journalism, talking to all kinds of people, reading situations, and understanding patterns. That skill set seems to carry over into how you approach opportunities. You spot gaps, see what's missing, and then take action.

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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Whether that's building something from scratch, teaming up with others, or investing in solutions that address those needs. So in a way, your entrepreneurial mindset isn't about business. It's about identifying what needs to be solved and turning that into action, a product, or even a business model. Would you say that's a fair summary?

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#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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been involved in multiple ventures, which means you've experienced both the highs and the lows, the wins, the setbacks, and everything in between. Looking back, is there a particular failure or challenge that stands out? Something that, despite all your success, really tested you? Maybe at the time, it was frustrating or even painful.

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#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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But in hindsight, it became a lesson you carry with you, something that shaped how you move forward. You've rebounded, you're stronger, you're energized. But is there a moment that, while tough, still holds deep meaning for you?

Chief Change Officer

#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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You've been engaged in a lot of interesting endeavors. The current project is Work3 Institute, which you co-founded with George. Leading to this book, Employment is Dead. What was the motivation behind starting the institute? What was the driving force that led you to create it? I guess this goes back to the why. What inspired you to take this path?

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#175 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

But everything changed when she moved to Silicon Valley. Instead of politics, power, and division, she discovered a culture built on collaboration, innovation, and risk-taking. That shift led her to build six companies, write multiple best-selling books, and now co-found the Work3 Institute, helping businesses navigate the future of work. We're featuring Debra in a two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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So the manager is the conductor.

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#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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All these ideas sound great, but when it comes to implementation, things get much harder. Like many great concepts, as and when they are put into action within big corporations or even small teams is the execution that often derails the original intention. From my experience, how can those listening, whether they are managers, CEOs, or others in leadership roles, effectively implement good ideas?

Chief Change Officer

#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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I know this might be a big question, but I'd love to hear more about your perspective from an execution standpoint. Are there certain things a CEO or a leader should focus on to set the stage for success so that when they delegate the tasks to others, the implementation stays true to the original vision?

Chief Change Officer

#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are joined by Greg Morley,

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#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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Yes, you are absolutely right. The visible involvement of leaders is crucial, especially in large organizations. That public display of support from the top sets the tone for the rest of the company. When the CEO or key decision makers visibly endorse an initiative, it creates a ripple effect.

Chief Change Officer

#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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People take cues from their leaders, and if the leader is truly committed to a certain direction, it's much easier for the organization to align itself with that. Like you said, in these cases, talk is not cheap at all. It is an important tool to communicate priorities and demonstrate what matters.

Chief Change Officer

#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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Execution might align with the people below the leader, but the leader's voice serves as a signal of endorsement. Setting the stage for everyone else to follow suit.

Chief Change Officer

#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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Speaking of using the power of leaders and voices to emphasize the importance of DEI. It's true that DEI has become a politically charged topic, especially in light of the upcoming presidential election. There's been an evolution in how DEI is perceived, with some viewing it as part of a border walk movement.

Chief Change Officer

#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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How do you address the misconceptions and misunderstandings surrounding DEI in this current cultural climate?

Chief Change Officer

#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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First things first, starting with belonging. What do you mean by belonging in the workplace? And why is that important?

Chief Change Officer

#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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My next question is, you've worked extensively across different regions. You're American, but now you're based in France. You've also had experiences in Hong Kong, Singapore, and China. With that kind of global perspective, I'd like to hear your thoughts on DEI practices. Through your eyes, what are some of the key differences between Eastern and Western approaches to DEI?

Chief Change Officer

#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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Are there misconceptions or different ways to address these issues? It seems like a lot of focus, a lot of coverage on DEI tends to come from an American or Western perspective. Could you compare both sides, East and West, in terms of how they practice DEI, the challenges they face and how they tackle these problems?

Chief Change Officer

#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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You are bringing back a lot of my own memories from the corporate world. Well, it may not have been related to DEI. I remember whenever there was a new policy set by the headquarters in the US, especially from the senior leadership, they would often say, let's do the same thing in Asia too. But we will push back and say, Asia doesn't work that way, is often seen as a monolith.

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#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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But in reality, Asia is as diverse as Europe, with many countries, cultures, and even differences within a single country. Even when they say, oh, it's just the Chinese market, they don't realize the vast differences between Chinese communities, whether from Hong Kong, Taiwan, or Mainland China.

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#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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And within Mainland China itself, people from the North, South, East, and West all have their own unique cultural dynamics. So a one-size-fits-all DEI policy transcribed from elsewhere just doesn't work in Asia. The diversity within Asia-Pacific requires a more nuanced, localized approach.

Chief Change Officer

#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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I agree with you 100% when it comes to belonging versus loneliness. Early in my career, I was immersed in big organizations, and it was all about work and climbing the corporate ladder. Belonging was seen as more of a soft feeling, something you didn't really think about much. You worked hard, made your boss happy, and got along Maybe you'll get promoted faster and better.

Chief Change Officer

#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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Some would call it luck. Others would call it politics. That's just a normal corporate life. But when you talk about belonging in the workplace, especially now that you absorbed it and you've been involved in different cultures, I'm curious, why is it so difficult to develop a true and sustainable sense of belonging for employees?

Chief Change Officer

#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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And how can we nurture that sense given all the complexities of corporate life?

Chief Change Officer

#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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a leader in the world of human resources and a master of diversity, equity, and inclusion at Monette, Tennessee, one of the oldest and largest wine and spirits conglomerates in the world. Greg has an amazing story to share, covering the unique experiences that have shaped his leadership style and his strategic approach to DEI.

Chief Change Officer

#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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As you were sharing. It reminded me of an incident from about 20 years ago when I worked at an international financial institution. At that time, I was a store employee. I received a lot of positive feedback from clients. I was sent to the headquarters for special training, first of its kind, and my boss rewarded me for all the hard work I put in.

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#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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My clients recognized it, and I was working incredibly hard, 12 to 14 hours a day, seven days a week. I genuinely enjoyed the work. In your terms, I felt a strong sense of belonging to the role, to the company, and to my clients. The pay wasn't anything special, even under industry standards. But I was so motivated and invested in the work. Then something changed.

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#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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my boss left, and her replacement had a completely different style and approach. I wouldn't place blame entirely on this new person, but we didn't get along the way I had with my previous boss. The entire culture and team dynamics shifted the vibe The chemistry, the sentiment, everything fell off. That's when I lost my sense of belonging.

Chief Change Officer

#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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I kept working hard and professionally to serve my clients. But there was an internal conflict with my new supervisor. This eroded the connection I had felt to my work. The result? I quit the job, and it came as a surprise to everyone, clients, colleagues, even those at headquarters. They couldn't understand it because I had been such a hard-knocker, talented analyst. For them, it was a real loss.

Chief Change Officer

#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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For me, the damage was deeper. That's when I experienced my first episode of mental illness, what we would call now burnout. And that burnout spiraled into depression. I'm sharing this now because it ties back to what you said about the sense of belonging or the lack of it.

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#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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When that sense is lost, especially in a role where I had thrived and found purpose, the consequences were severe for both my career and my health. It was a perfect example of how critical belonging really is.

Chief Change Officer

#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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Greg, let's start with you giving us a bit of an introduction to this book, as well as a brief background on yourself for those who might be tuning in for the first time. This will help the listeners understand where you're coming from. Before we get into the book's content, the lessons and the teachings you want to share.

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#174 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part Two

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We've touched upon belonging. Let's move forward to talk a bit about inclusion. How would you define DEI? Or what does DEI mean to you?

Chief Change Officer

#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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So are you carrying on with your original research back in 2020 and today with all the new development and still studying this? If you are, what's your status? What's your observation?

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#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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now let me share a bit about my user viewpoint yes i use chat gpt sometimes i don't have that conscious feelings of power when i use it do i see it as assistant i see it as honestly as a colleague so to speak although i found this colleague a lot of times provides me with a huge degree of confirmation bias. Whatever I say, oh yeah, that's right. You can think of it this way and all that.

Chief Change Officer

#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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I'm very conscious about confirmation bias when I use CheckGPT. When I ask them questions, I try to get them to help me figure it out or maybe write something more for me, give me more inspiration, creativity, and they keep coming back with the same idea. Eventually I said, that's not working.

Chief Change Officer

#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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I would imagine if this is talking to a human colleague, I might be more careful in terms of the language I use. Am I saying anything that may upset you? But I still see it as a machine. And as of now, the emotional aspect of it is not so human yet. So that's why I don't see it just as an assistant. I would take it more like advisor, you know, depending on situation.

Chief Change Officer

#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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Juliana and I met at Chicago Booth. She was my TA for two courses taught by two amazing professors and social psychologists, Nick Apley and Linda Ginzel. Still remember the first day we met? I was sitting next to her on front row when the whole classroom was packed. I didn't know she was actually my TA. I raised hand and answered question. I got the question wrong.

Chief Change Officer

#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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Yeah. Well, if I structure the questions, I must say they give me some ideas as if I'm talking to a fairly intelligent person. And then we keep communicating. Then this kind of interaction or conversation sometimes, honestly, is more interesting. than talking to a human who may not have any sense of independent thinking.

Chief Change Officer

#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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I do see the value in terms of using the machine, a highly intelligent machine, and me as the human also being aware of what kind of biases that I may face if I use this tool. Just be aware of that, be mindful not to be distracted or get so carried away by that. So far, this conversation, this interaction for me is still manageable.

Chief Change Officer

#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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But then I watched a video posted by an adjunct professor of entrepreneurship from Chicago Bull. The topic is why AI may be your best astrologist. I know you work with and teach a lot of MBAs, executives. Do you see us, like people like us, decision-making, executive decision-making, perhaps AI could be one of our best astrologists?

Chief Change Officer

#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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Then she whispered to me, trying to explain the reason why. Then we met again in Singapore. This time, I pulled her aside. asking her about reciprocity, a very important concept in psychology and negotiation. In my eyes, she is very sharp. Those who know me well understand that I use this word very selectively as a compliment. Over time, I've observed the growth of her academic career.

Chief Change Officer

#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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Last question, I'd like to get your insights. Now, you study human to human interaction conversation, and we just talk about me as a human talking, working with a machine. This human and machine interaction will become more and more common. For younger kids, they are going to grow up in this era. So they just would be more immersed in this space.

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#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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Adults being trained and grow up in an era where it's just human to human. And now we are in this human machine era. So what advice would you give to MBA students, executives, managers, how we could make better use of our human communication skills Or if you have to highlight a couple of premium human qualities, human skills that we should hold on to. That's a great question.

Chief Change Officer

#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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I told myself, I must invite her to my podcast. So, which granted, here we are. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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Let's start with a brief introduction of your background. For the benefit of the audience, how I met Juliana, that was when I was at Chicago Booth.

Chief Change Officer

#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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Check out your personal website. You have published a lot of papers over time. Like you said, you study power, study negotiation, decision making. I was wondering when you were in the master, PhD program, when you were thinking of

Chief Change Officer

#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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Choosing specific areas of research, why you chose language, mind perception, what's fascinating about those areas that you decide, well, yeah, I really, really want to go deep to become a deep thinker, researcher, and teacher in those areas?

Chief Change Officer

#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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You might have noticed most of our guests have taken quite the scenic route through their careers. Juliana, on the other hand, has kept her eyes on one prize, digging deep into the human mind. She is now leading the charge in teaching negotiation and management to both MBA students and seasoned executives.

Chief Change Officer

#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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One thing before we deep dive into your research areas, while you're talking about trying to understand the mind in other people, always wondering like psychologists themselves, how they try to understand their own psychology. You, as a living human, how you perceive or figure out your own psychology, would you make you smarter or more complicated in a sense to understand

Chief Change Officer

#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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Figure out your own psychological state of mind when something exciting happened or something bad happened.

Chief Change Officer

#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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Now, but that's one area or in particular one paper that interests me when I did my research for this interview. This paper was published in year 2020. It's called Power and Decision Making. New Directions for Research in the Age of Artificial Intelligence. Now that's 2020. That's before we have chat GPT and many other AI tools as of today.

Chief Change Officer

#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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So can you tell us a bit more about your argument for that paper back then?

Chief Change Officer

#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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Take a quick look at her website or UC Berkeley's, and you'll be blown away by her achievements. We are talking a laundry list of titles, a mountain of papers, and a substantial collection of awards. And get this, she's bagged not one, but two master's degrees and two PhDs at an age where many are still figuring things out.

Chief Change Officer

#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Coming to us from the halls of UC Berkeley is associate professor and psychologist, Juliana Schroeder.

Chief Change Officer

#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines

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I could easily spend a good 10 minutes here just running through her credentials bio and all the incredible things she's achieved. But let's be honest, I know you're here for the insights. So while I'm skipping the long intro to save us some time, I can't recommend enough diving into her profile yourself. Trust me, if you're even a bit of a nerd like me, Juliana's work is a gold mine.

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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So part of the motivation is that's in my mind what really great looked like. And I wanted to build a way to really scale that approach. And then coincidentally, their pedagogy is quite similar to Harvard Business School does case studies. And there's a lot of similar adult learning principle underpinnings. And also, I think it's quite research path in the way that how people learn.

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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The second thing I would say that made me want to start this is I felt like there was a really strong founder market fit when it comes to my unique abilities or what I thought are my unique abilities that could... build this product. So throughout my life, I've just been involved in a lot of things that involve live groups.

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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So when I was in Korea, I used to be on TV and I hosted a lot of live TV shows. So I was often a show host where I had to facilitate conversations. Then I, throughout my life in school, would often play some sort of a role in class, whether it be class president or social chair. So I was often, again, facilitating a lot of experiences for people.

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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In work, I've facilitated a ton of really interactive workshops for clients where I also got insight into what it means to bring people together. And finally, I emcee weddings a lot. And so like a lot of the things that I do and I really enjoy are around bringing people together and somehow creating this dynamic that gets everyone to really engage.

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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And I felt like I had really strong intuition and insight around this so when i bring those two things together it felt like there was an opportunity for me to create a new product that could really change what the default of online learning looks like with what i'm really good at yeah speaking of online learning

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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Welcome Vince! Thanks, Vince, for having me. It feels a little bit strange to be Thang. Thank you, Vin. Awesome to be on.

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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I've been pretty involved in upskilling myself in recent months, taking courses on platforms like Coursera. While Coursera offers on-demand online learning, there's little interaction and is not very engaging, unless the topic really grabs my interest. On the other hand, I'm also taking some coaching classes, which involve synchronized group learning with breakout sessions.

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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That's a different experience altogether. And over the years, I've also had a lot of in-person experiences at business schools where I engaged in group dynamics and case studies. debating in large classrooms, or discussing cases in small teams. So when you mentioned designing your product to be similar to McKinsey or the Harvard Business School case method, it really resonates with me.

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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So my question for you is, for regular learners, for everyday people who don't have the privilege of attending Harvard Business School or any other elite institution, how does your solution stand out? How does it differentiate itself from other learning scenarios I've mentioned, particularly in terms of the learning experience and outcomes?

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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This is a very special episode. I've never had a guest with the same first name as mine. And you are the first. Groundbreaking, really. So, Vince, let's start with your story. Share your history and career path with us. Then we'll talk more about different aspects and elements of your experience. Let's begin by getting to know more about you.

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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Yeah, so I think so the way my think about it is so maybe the context here is adult learning principles and science are pretty clear and there's a lot of evidence around how adults learn, right? I think actually the issue for most and it's not like different like learning styles is not a thing, right? It's like a myth that's already been debunked.

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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really learn well skills where you require judgment and discussion and sort of practice, people really learn better when they're with others. Now, the challenge is that the kinds of high-impact learning where you're working with others is very expensive to scale, and it's very hard to do it flexibly also.

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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And so what you often see is only the very sort of privileged or high budget institutions of the world are able to offer learners the truly great learning experiences grounded in adult learning pedagogy. And then when they're forced to scale,

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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They are making compromises in the learning experience that is not grounded in learning science, but at least it can get that content in front of the people who need it. But today, in the past, there was no real way to scale truly science-backed great learning to more people.

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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So I would say what we're doing is we're taking that experience that today can only be accessed by really privileged sort of settings and making it much more accessible to many more people through technology.

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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So it's about scaling life growth learning. I also noticed an other key component you mentioned. fostering a sense of community. You've had experience as a TV host, a MC, and engaging with people in various social environments. And now you're trying to bring that sense of community into the learning process through technology.

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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Personally, in the social media era, I found that the sense of humility often feels superficial. Reflecting on my own learning experience, like spending two years in business school with classmates, there was a genuine sense of humility, but it came at the cost of time and being physically present in one location.

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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Fast forward to today, you're using technology to scale life growth learning and engage learners. I'm curious about your approach to using technology to foster and develop a more genuine sense of community. How do you achieve that?

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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I think this could be a game changer for many people, especially since despite the technology bringing us together, social media has often made us feel more disconnected.

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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Yeah, and it's something that I think you're totally right that it's sense of community has really been eroded and or the word community has been diluted in the social media world. I would say, okay, so if you step back, what are the things that actually build true sense of community? In our view, I think it requires meaningful conversations.

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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that allow people to really get to know each other in a deeper way than they otherwise would. Go beyond the small talk or the classic set of things you share in a normal context and allow them to get deeper and learn about like, how do different people think? What are their values? What, where do their perspectives come from? And so on.

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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Got it. Thank you. Yeah, so... Today I'm an entrepreneur, but maybe I'll start from my origin. I was born in South Korea and I grew up there until I was 12. Then I immigrated to Canada and then I came to the US for college and then navigated to different parts of the world and came to where I am today. I would say there are a few things that have really marked my life.

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And I would say the way we've designed our learning gets at sparking conversations to get at that level. So now comes the question of how do you create that kind of an environment? You can't simply throw people into a group and say, now talk deep, right? People don't do that. And so the way we've tried to do it in our modules is that there are, I think there are a number of different

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But maybe I'll highlight two. The first one is in a lot of our modules, we first of all get people to solve problems together that are realistic but fictitious and that are not actually their own life problems.

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And by getting people to engage on this external problem, first of all, it just gets people to start deeply engaging and opening up in a more comfortable way because it's not like you're suddenly having to be very vulnerable from the get-go. And people also just really like problem solving together.

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I think it's one of the innate qualities of humans that gets people to want to play social games, play board games, and do things with each other. And so we've created an environment where it feels like you're collaborating together and working together. Then the second thing we do is we then layer on the kinds of interactivity that allows everybody to share in a meaningful way.

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So one of the examples of this interactivity in our platform is we actually get everyone to write down their thinking. So it's a group setting, but alone, solo, quietly for a few minutes. So you reflect on the questions first and you are able to organize your thoughts. Then afterwards, you're able to share with each other how you thought about the prompt that was given.

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And so this sort of sequence intentionally allows everybody to have more of an equal voice in sharing and also the thoughts that they share to be more richer rather than people just off the cuff answering questions without having had a chance to really thought about it and write it down.

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So far, we've talked about your solution from the learner's perspective. But what about from the provider's perspective? When I say provider, I refer to training providers, coaches, consulting firms, and book authors. I'm trying to learn more about your firm. It seems like your solution is very versatile, working well with different types of education and learning providers.

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And for these providers and partners, what pain points are you solving for them? If I come to you and say, hey, Vince, I want to build this product. I want to build this platform. I think your technology is right for me. But I'd like to know more about the specific differentiation you offer compared to other learning solutions. What would you say?

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Yeah, I think usually, so I would say the clients fall in one of the two buckets, like broadly, in terms of why they find SparkWise useful for them. The first one is around just the level and the richness of interactions that are available virtually through Sparkwise. much stronger than if they were to cobble together other tools like Zoom, then a whiteboarding tool and so on.

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And in a very intuitive way that gets learners to just focus on the actual learning rather than be really distracted and overwhelmed by the amount of tools they have to toggle between. So the first set of partners want to use SparkWise because they want to bring an incredible learning experience to their clients that is interactive and they see SparkWise as a tool to do it.

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The second group of partners that like us are the ones that are looking, they like the scalability value proposition that I told you earlier. For them, yeah, they can definitely, it's easy for a provider to host a group of let's say 10 to 15 people and do a very interactive session for them or do small group coaching.

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#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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Those are all doable, but when you need to deliver learning to thousands or tens of thousands of learners across enterprises, or different types of industries, like how do you actually do that in a cost-effective way, in a flexible way that doesn't force the partners to now have an army of different facilitators on demand that can pull in, right?

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The first thing is definitely the immigrant experience has been a really big component. Moving from South Korea to Canada when I didn't really speak much English at age 12, I think really forced me to really discover myself again at age 12 and really invest in learning and education as a way to adapt to a new environment.

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And so they see our solution as a way to really scale their business in a streamlined way.

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#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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The skill and interactiveness you mentioned for smaller groups is impressive. Recently, you announced a deal with Harvard Business Publishing to allow them to use your live group learning solution for their subscribers. Before you share more about that, I've noticed a trend with AI companies as AI and large language model technologies become more integrated into our daily lives.

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These AI companies are teaming up with media firms because these media firms have a wealth of quality content. For example, OpenAI has partnered with The Atlantic, and Perplexity has revenue-sharing agreements with media firms like Time and Fortune for AI-driven searches. Education is another ecosystem rich in content.

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When I heard about your collaboration with Harvard Business Publishing, I started connecting the dots. HBP has a huge library of quality content and access to top-tier authors. It seems to me that your technology could play a key role in unlocking hidden value from this content and bringing it to life for a broader audience. Is that your vision for this collaboration?

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Or do you have other different expectations for it?

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#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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I think you synthesize it quite well here. But the things that I would add to it are a couple of things. So definitely agree that there's a lot of idle content out there today. And not all content needs this, but I think the content that people who need to be fully absorbed and digested and applied in real life,

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simply reading is rarely the best way for people to actually understand those concepts. So with collaborations like someone like Harvard Business Publishing who've been a wonderful partner with us so far, we really do see an opportunity to allow their expertise to come to life and influence more lives. The second thing I would add is that especially with

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AI, just raw content, is truly getting commoditized. It was already in many ways commoditized, but now it's accessible in a way that it wasn't before AI, which means those with distinctive expertise are looking for ways to further elevate how you deliver that experience above and beyond what people can get through simply asking questions. an LLM.

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And so what we see is we're providing an alternative, a new way for people to engage with information and content that is human to human, that AI can't simply come in this place, that really gets people motivated to engage, that really creates aha moments because you're talking to other people. And hopefully through that, we allow

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The second thing that has really marked my experience is just course education, going through a lot of different professional experience across consulting, international development in different countries, and just really learning what is it that I really care about, about the world, which for me, the sort of the thread was people development, capability building, and talent development.

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the truly great thinkers' ideas and insights to get spread much more to different parts of the world.

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It sounds like many of the thinkers and professors who publish articles through Harvard Business Publishing, along with book authors, could use these solutions to share their ideas and engage with learners and fans on a deeper level. That presents a huge potential, not just with large publishers, but also with platforms like Substack for newsletters or even podcast platforms.

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I'm simply thinking out loud here, but for example, on platforms like Substack or in the podcasting space, many creators, including myself and yourself, could benefit from your technology. Independent book authors, podcasters, other content creators could use it to translate their content into a more interactive, community-based environment.

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allowing for deeper engagement and sharing of thoughts, insights, and advice with their audiences.

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Yeah, I think there's definitely a really interesting and promising opportunity there. Right now, we initially started by really focusing on first more of a B2B opportunity, also so that we can be focused on where we build out our products and which features are built to enable each segment.

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But to your point, I think increasingly, especially now, there are going to be more and more of the solo creators or very small organizations that are reaching a lot more audience through the different digital channels that's being created.

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And we do think it could be really interesting to help them bring another way of engaging with their listeners and audience and fans through our platform over time.

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Great. I can't wait to hear more about your developments because I truly believe that in addition to the B2B space, there's so much more. The rest of the world is hungry for solutions like yours. Thank you so much for sharing, Vince.

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Thank you very much for having me.

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

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#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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And so present day, I'm working on a startup that is an education technology company that helps people, so professionals learn together in groups.

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#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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Sparkwise, that's your baby. But before we dive into Sparkwise and all the exciting new initiatives, let's talk about your journey. You mentioned moving from Asia to Canada and United States, which is somewhat similar to my own experience. I moved from Hong Kong to Canada and studied in the United States.

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While you studied engineering at Princeton, then you transitioned into public administration at Harvard, focusing on economic development and eventually moved to different parts of the world. What drove you to make those transitions? How did these experiences enrich your character? Or perhaps it was the other way around. Wasn't your character that drove all those moves?

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#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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Yeah, it's an interesting question. I would say the thing that comes to my mind is, so first of all, I've for a long time been on a quest to find what is it that truly motivates me intrinsically. And today I feel like I've found it, especially with the work I do in Sparkwise, but that journey was very long.

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I think the part of the reason why it was a long journey is that growing up, I would have, I would characterize my young self as a people pleaser, getting a lot of validation and enjoyment from things that others tell about me. And which means for a long time, I was very much driven by extrinsic things, whether it be compliments, like awards or prestige or things like that.

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And I always felt like that wasn't the sort of the thing that really fulfilled me. And I was constantly looking for what is it, the thing that motivates me. So my winding sort of career path reflects that journey. Now, I would say There are maybe two things that guided my process. One of which actually comes from my background in engineering. So I studied in operations research.

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And one of the things I learned in that discipline is that when you are trying to optimize a mathematical function under a lot of uncertainty... What you do is you actually double down on the areas of the function that you just have no data points on. So you actually gauge whether those parts of the functions are high value or not for you. So I applied that principle to my career, which means I

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When I first started undergrad, I went to McKinsey and that was honestly just me not knowing what I wanted to do at all. And McKinsey just sounded like a cool organization that everyone said was prestigious and good to work for. So I just went into it blind, but

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Beyond that point, I was chasing things that I just hadn't experienced, where things were uncertain, so I can learn more about them and letting my intuition guide me. For instance, right after McKinsey, I went to Tanzania and worked at an NGO. I had an inkling that I cared about social impact, I had an inkling that maybe nonprofit could be a really interesting kind of organization to work for.

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I obviously had no experience working in Africa. I had no experience really working as a project manager in an NGO. And it felt like an opportunity that was very far away from what I knew. And by going there, I would discover. After that, I went to a year in Tanzania. I realized I really like high impact work, but they didn't really like the

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Like me, Vince is from Asia and moved to Canada and the States for living, studying, and working. I resonate with a lot of his transitional experiences, and we share one major thing in common. We are both obsessed with learning. We are passionate about the outcome of learning, the experience of it, and how to improve it, not just for ourselves, but for others as well.

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NGO model and the incentives around what that environment creates. And so I actually ended up going to Columbia in Latin America and working at a startup. My first time in Latin America and my first time in a startup, but it was a way for me to really discover, again, a very different environment where I can experience that setting. and see what I like.

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So those are a couple examples of how I chase uncertainty as a way to really discover what is it that really motivates me. There's the second sort of thing that I use a mental model I use is the idea that you can only really discover and learn your true preferences by gaining firsthand experience.

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I think a lot of times people spend a lot of time theorizing what might be good and then apply after theory. I think the other way around, I feel like you're better off leading with experience and then distilling and creating mental models around yourself and defining your principles from actually putting yourself in situations where you feel the real constraints of realities.

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And then you realize, okay, this is what I really care about versus this. I don't really care about this. And for me, that's the reason why I was jumping into these very different environments. And from that, learn what is it that I really care care about.

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And as I mentioned earlier, briefly, through all these experiences, I learned the thing that I always thought about and found enjoyment in was doing things around people development, talent development, thinking about how do you unlock people's potential and so on. And once I got enough of those data points across settings,

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I knew or felt that was the area I had to focus on if I were to dedicate a decade of my life building a venture. And hence, today I'm building an education technology business.

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So as I was listening, it seems like you have a scientist's mindset. You're intrigued by things you don't fully understand, but you're drawn to them. Your way of finding out more is to dive deep, collect data points, and explore.

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You might start with a hypothesis, but as you gather more data, you either debunk or validate your initial theories, continuously refining your understanding until you reach a point where you discover your true passion. Would you say that's a fair summary of your experience?

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#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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Yeah, I would say I would agree with like 80, 90% of what you share. The only thing I would say is I think oftentimes when you think about the scientific mindset, the one caveat is people then often spend a lot of time like contemplating creating the underlying theory on which your hypothesis is formed. And then you go into the idea of validating in a very scientific way.

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Whereas I think for me, especially when it comes to career, one, I think it's hard to be that scientific. And two, I think if you overthink about what is this theory underlying my preferences, I'm not sure if it's that helpful. So I agree with most of it, except I would say I'm a scientist that theorizes less when it comes to careers, I would say.

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A few episodes ago, I talked to one of my guests, who was actually my former professor at Chicago Booth. We themed her series Love and Logic. She studied computer science as an undergrad, but went on to earn her master's and PhD in theater history, a unique blend of art and science.

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Later, she taught entrepreneurship at the business school Chicago Booth, which made for a fascinating life experience. We discussed the balance between love and logic. As you shared your journey with me, I see a similar blend of art and science in your approach. I always believed that career development is a form of craftsmanship.

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Some people overanalyze and calculate every step, while others are more free-spirited and go with the flow. Ultimately, it's about finding that balance between art and science, feeling our way and figuring things out as we go.

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Yeah, that resonates with me.

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#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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You mentioned agtech, education technology, as your focus. When I first got involved in the agtech space, and I still am, I was particularly active on the investment side. Every time I met an entrepreneur from any part of the world, my first question was always, why are you founding an ag tech company? The reason I ask is that when it comes to education technology, passion is crucial.

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#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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I used to invest in education technology, and now Vince is building a new agtech solution. This episode is about transforming the learning experience and outcomes for everyone, both as individuals and as a community. If you care about elevating your career, work, and skills, stick with us. You won't regret it.

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#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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Of course, you need to be smart and have the business acumen, the head, but the heart has to be there too. I found that in education technology, that fire inside your heart is essential. Especially in those days, venture valuations for other types of tech like fintech or blockchain were much higher, while agtech was relatively lower. That's why I really care about the why behind the work.

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What kind of impact do you want to make? And do you truly mean it when you say impact? So back to you, my question isn't just about why ATT&CK, but also out of all the issues and opportunities in the learning space, why did you decide to focus specifically on live group learning?

Chief Change Officer

#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. today got a double Vince episode. Yes, Vince Chan here, hosting Vince John from New York City.

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#130 Vince Jeong’s Journey: From Immigrant Roots to Redefining EdTech Through Live Group Learning

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A couple of things. So in terms of why group learning, which I guess for people's context, SparkWise is a platform that really scales live group learning where professionals come together. They'll be real time video solving problems. They are practicing judgment. They are giving each other feedback and they're really growing together and building skills together.

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And there are two things that I would say that really underpinned this approach. One is I mentioned I started my career at McKinsey, and then I spent my time in a lot of different organizations across all sectors, partly through work through McKinsey and then work through the international development stuff I did everywhere.

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One thing I really appreciate about McKinsey and consulting was that they invest a lot of resources into developing their people because people are truly their core asset. And it's a place where people fight to get onto training programs. And that's the first thing I experienced. So I just thought that was actually what training looked like in WordPress. I thought, so they put you into teams.

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So you work together. It's super interactive and really engaging. And I thought that's what training was. Until I saw how different training felt like in other organizations that just don't have the resources to invest at that level and at the scale that McKinsey is. And so, and then a lot of McKinsey training that I really loved was in this live group format.

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#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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In our culture, the way we've been taught, we often think that being a top-notch leader is all about having a flashy title, a fat wallet, and a ton of power. But we're in the era of change. Things are changing around us so rapidly. I believe the measure of success and what it means to be excellent as a leader has evolved. Now, excellence is all about resilience.

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#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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Lots of adventures, lots of failure, lots of success, and lots of resilience. Here comes my good old friend, Katie.

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#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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It's not just about how big your title, how rich you are, and how much power you hold today. It's about how well you bounce back from changes and how long the game you play into tomorrow. Katie, with that in mind, how do you view your leadership style? And perhaps what kind of leader do you see yourself as?

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#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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So Katie, you and I are Gen X, but you have another identity. You are a mother of two. They're both Gen Z. They're still in school, but at some point they will enter the workforce. In the office, you manage a wide range of generations. So as a mother and leader, leading younger generations. Can you share with us about your take on working with them?

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#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In today's episode, I'll be chatting with a dear friend from my Yale days, Katrina Curry, or as many know her as Katie.

Chief Change Officer

#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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ah, I'd like to learn more about your learning habit these days. We'll come back to you on this. But go back to your transformation, the changes you've gone through. So in your life so far, you've moved from Bulgaria to United States, from New York City to New Haven, Connecticut, then back to New York from banking into credit rating agency, and now into insurance in a growing venture.

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#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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So throughout all of these different stages and forms of transformations, what's your approach to managing changes over time?

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#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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Katie and I share a background in risk assessment and measurement, well-trained and developed through years of working with banks, fund houses, and insurance companies. But when it comes to her career, Katie has taken her understanding of risk to a new level. stepping out of her comfort zone with a deliberate approach.

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#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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Mental toughness. The border term is resilience. Now, since you bring up the term mental toughness, so let me move on to the next question about the mental side of things. You and I come from a very strong business education background. And in business education program, we are trained to be highly analytical, strongly logical.

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#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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especially for business, but even when it comes to managing our life and career, we have been very thoughtful, but also very analytical, a lot of back and forth analysis, pros and cons. But we have our psychology, we're after a human and business education is light on that kind of training. So when it comes to your reinvention,

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#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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how you balance the logic side of you as well as the psychology side of you.

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#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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Like me, Katie has her share of navigating and overcoming multiple rounds of reinventions through diverse cultures. In her case, from small town to Big Apple, from Bulgaria to United States. from communism to Wall Street, from New York City to Yale School of Management, from established credit rating agency to a tech innovation company in the insurance industry.

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#283 Katie Curry: Risk by Training, Reinvention by Choice

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Speaking of resilience, of change, of reinvention, a lot of people are risk-averse. If I keep using the risk concept, you know, they have fear of failure. They're afraid that they will fail. That's also another fear, fear of judgment. They don't like to be judged. They don't like to be questioned. What's your personal definition of failure and success after so many years on the Wall Street?

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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You've managed complex operations involving stakeholders with different interests, agendas, and goals that sometimes, and especially in the unusual and intense time period, conflict with collective objectives. Now, at Yale, you're engaging with a wide range of groups. What is your approach to managing these multi-stakeholder relationships?

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As you're well aware, this is crucial not only to the success of your role, but also to the impact you aim to achieve.

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#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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I'll save the specifics for you to discover in this episode. Among many roles, George was pivotal in managing Connecticut's COVID-19 health response. For those interested in his contribution during that critical period, check out the YouTube link in the show notes where he hosted a press conference. Without further ado, let's dive in.

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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A cliche question at this point would be, oh, Josh, what's your typical day at Yale? Well, I believe there isn't any typical day. So let me flip the question. Tell us about what are some of the things that you try to help with the Yale communities day in and day out?

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we're talking with Josh Chabot, the managing director of Yale Ventures. You've likely heard of Yale University, but what about Yale Ventures?

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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Given your role in building and developing the innovation ecosystem at Yale, you interact with faculty, scholars. I presume a lot of MBA students from the Yale School of Management would come to you for guidance.

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#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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Considering the challenges, career challenges in particular, that MBA students face today, whether they are exploring corporate roles or interested in entrepreneurship, and with the tough funding market for new founders, what career advice would you offer them?

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#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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Behavior-related advice? What books would you recommend to those who are interested in entrepreneurship or already in entrepreneurship?

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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This is the last question of the day, and I want you to give me your honest answer. You've had a very successful corporate career. Then you joined a startup as a professional CEO, eventually took them into acquisition. Then you joined the public administration to help them deal with once-in-a-lifetime crisis in human history.

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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Now, you are working at one of the most famous universities in the world to build and drive an innovation ecosystem. So what else is in your career life that you may want to do in your future? What may be the missing piece? Would it be perhaps at some point you will become a founder to found company, to build it, to scale it on your own?

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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Great, great news for everyone in the Yale Innovation Community. I really wish we had someone like you around when we were as a school. Josh, thank you so much for your time. Please come back and tell us more about the founder stories and the innovations activities happening at Yale, Yale Haven in Connecticut, also upcoming Yale Innovation Summit.

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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For those of you who are unfamiliar with this event, this is an annual event usually happening in May. And this year will be May 29th and 30th with Chelsea Clinton as the keynote speaker. Just to clarify, this is not a paid ad. My podcast doesn't do paid promotions at this stage. It's definitely an event worth checking out, especially if you are close to the Yale campus.

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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I hope to make it there myself next year. And Josh, come back to the podcast whenever you have time. You're always welcome here.

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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I spoke with our classmate, Irina, in an earlier episode. She is founded and is now leading a new venture in the energy transition sector. Like you, she has made several significant career transitions since MBA. I find each of them fascinating. When I asked her about the common themes in her career moves, she said two things, self-starter and curiosity.

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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Before we dive deeper into each phase of your career, what have been your main drivers for exploring and trying new things over the past 20 years?

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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You've got a strong background in astrology from your education at Yale, then as astrology consultant at IBM, diving deep into business strategies with solid logic. But when it comes to something more personal, such as career decisions, career moves, It seems like even for analytical minds like ours, there's a need to balance logic with psychology.

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#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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If I have to use an economic term, it is about finding equilibrium between the two. Have you encountered any mental hurdles while trying to decide on a Korean booth? Or in figuring out if a decision is right or worthwhile? If you have, how do you navigate the psychological ups and downs in your career decisions?

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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I'd like to explore more about your move from IBM to a startup. Early in your career, after completing your MBA at Yale, you started as a consultant at IBM. That was amazing. Remember that was 2002 after 911. A lot of us were challenged to get a full-time job upon graduation. Yet you got a full-time job offer from IBM. After about a decade with IBM, you move to a venture.

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#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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Where, if I remember correctly, you were the 16th employee. What was going through your mind when you made the switch from a well-established firm to a startup that you needed to help grow? What was your gut feeling about the transition?

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#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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It's a key part of the Yale's innovation ecosystem, collaborating with faculty, students, entrepreneurs, and local governments to drive all sorts of innovation activities. Yale Ventures, for example, helps scientists and scholars turn their inventions into real products. The commercialization process, so to speak.

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#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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I bet you must have experienced a lot of cultural shock in this transition.

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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You joined the public sector during a very interesting time from 2019 to 2022. You were responsible for Connecticut's COVID health response efforts. Can you share with us some of your insights from your experience during this period of time?

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#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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A system in raising money, build teams, and support students in developing the innovation ideas. And a little personal note, George and I are both MBA alum from the Yale School of Management. We both graduated in year 2002. He chose a path in consulting. I went into finance. George's career has been nothing short of remarkable, filled with impact and challenges.

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#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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The COVID-19 pandemic was truly a once in a lifetime event that went beyond anything we've learned from traditional business or management textbooks. Reflecting on that unusual and intense period, what were your main challenges?

Chief Change Officer

#282 Impact Over Egos, Substance Over Soundbites: Josh Geballe’s Real Playbook

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Using your consultant mindset and entrepreneurial experience, how did you address or mitigate these challenges as you learned and adapted to find better and more effective solutions for all?

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#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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Absolutely. You've answered the question with so much authenticity and truth in that. I like what you said about courage equals leadership. Leadership equals courage. Although some leaders mistake, misinterpret Being courageous, meaning that they can just do whatever they want without thinking ahead of potential consequences on them and people around them.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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So they are taking risks without being thoughtful about the consequences, the impact they create. That actually I call stability, not courageous leadership. I also like what you said about integrity. We've seen a lot of cases in business and politics in which leaders lack integrity in what they do and what they say.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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Our world needs more leaders who are like you, who value as well as practice integrity in talk and in walk. Now, let's look at another C word, change. This podcast is called Chief Change Officer. Change is the central theme in all of our interviews.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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I know at some point in your career life, you've been a consultant in change leadership and management, working with a lot of senior leaders, CEOs, and the teams. Tell us more about your experience there in helping others to build a mission for change and to execute on it.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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But the corporate world couldn't contain her ambition for law. Irina transitioned from a comfortable corporate position during the credit crisis to spearhead new ventures, at some point becoming a change leadership consultant for CEOs and senior leaders. Then a few years back during COVID, she and her team were setting up a new venture.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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So much so about the change you've experienced and also what you believe in change. Now, let's take a step further to talk about another kind of change that you are really passionate about, which is energy transition. As we speak, you and your team are building a new paradigm in energy transition. Tell us about the vision of you and your team.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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Whose problem you're trying to solve and what exactly is this problem? Inspire us, educate us. Like we're five years old. Tell us more about what you're trying to do at this moment and what's the impact you're trying to make.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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As we speak today, they are crafting a new paradigm in the energy sector. The mission is to disrupt the transportation industry in the States with innovative energy solutions. Towards the end of our conversation, Irina will share invaluable advice for the younger generation who are passionate about creating global change for the greater good. Here comes Irina Filipov.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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So basically, you are an all-in problem solver for me if I'm one of those transport companies. Is that correct?

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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Let me be a devil's advocate for the moment. If I were the CEO of a prospective client you're trying to pitch, you come to me with the full solution. One question, major question comes up in my mind would be if I rely on you to provide me with a full solution, what if something goes wrong? Basically, I expose myself to the counterparty risk of you that is not controlled in-house.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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So what would you say? What would you respond if I ask you this question? How you managed the situation, the set of risk that I may expose myself to if I sign up for your service?

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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You are the chief operating officer in this venture. every day, you deal with all sorts of questions about the deployment of technology, the implementation of the business model, the risk management for a client and for your business, all sorts of things. As an entrepreneur, what excites you to move forward? What actually energizes you to get past the challenges to stay focused?

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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What is your source of power?

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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Global change. This idea of creating global change, making impacts on others, building a better world for future generations or those, For grand purposes, a lot of younger generations, for example, MBA students, MBA graduates, they're all fascinated by playing a major role in changing the world for good.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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Now, you yourself, as you mentioned, in your early part of your career, you were not satisfied with predefined career paths. You always wanted to do something different with your curiosity, with your self-starter mindset. So now that you look back as a seasoned leader, as a time-tested entrepreneur, as a change leader yourself, if you are now in front of a hall of MBA graduates and students,

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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What specific advice would you give to them in embarking on their career path?

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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This episode tells the story of a self-starter who never settles, who is constantly in search of change, who combines curiosity and courage with a profound sense of integrity, now becoming a force for change. Irina Filipov, the COO and co-founder of an energy transition company backed by BlackRock. We met more than 20 years ago at Yale. We are MBA classmates.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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that link up all these different transitions and changes through all your career life so far?

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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Let me summarize. You are a self-starter. You also have a strong sense of intellectual curiosity. These two forces are self-reinforcing. You are curious about new trends, new changes.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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You're not afraid of breaking through barriers, try something new, something different to self-start, to get your curiosity fulfilled, but at the same time to move ahead of the game, or I would say to set up the rules of the game yourself. Yet, I think there's one missing piece. It's courage. It takes courage for you to venture out there, for you to self-start without knowing all the unknown.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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Right from the start, her clear and persuasive way of speaking really caught my attention. It's not just that she is a well-trained diplomat, fluent in five languages. She possesses a clarity of thought and the ability to communicate her ideas with strong conviction. You will surely sense this conviction throughout our conversation.

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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So in your eyes, what is courage? What is courageous leadership, especially for a woman leader?

Chief Change Officer

#281 Irina Filippova: Courage Is the Career Plan

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Irina was born into a family led by a nuclear scientist in Russia. Yet her interests led her elsewhere, in particular to international relations and eventually a diplomat career in the States. Her journey didn't stop there. She wanted to pursue a business career, so she went to Yale and transitioned into the energy sector with BP in London.

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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So the manager is the conductor.

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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All these ideas sound great, but when it comes to implementation, things get much harder. Like many great concepts, as and when they are put into action within big corporations or even small teams is the execution that often derails the original intention. From my experience, how can those listening, whether they are managers, CEOs, or others in leadership roles, effectively implement good ideas?

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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I know this might be a big question, but I'd love to hear more about your perspective from an execution standpoint. Are there certain things a CEO or a leader should focus on to set the stage for success so that when they delegate the tasks to others, the implementation stays true to the original vision?

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are joined by Greg Morley,

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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Yes, you are absolutely right. The visible involvement of leaders is crucial, especially in large organizations. That public display of support from the top sets the tone for the rest of the company. When the CEO or key decision makers visibly endorse an initiative, it creates a ripple effect.

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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People take cues from their leaders, and if the leader is truly committed to a certain direction, it's much easier for the organization to align itself with that. Like you said, in these cases, talk is not cheap at all. It is an important tool to communicate priorities and demonstrate what matters.

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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Execution might align with the people below the leader, but the leader's voice serves as a signal of endorsement. Setting the stage for everyone else to follow suit.

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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Speaking of using the power of leaders and voices to emphasize the importance of DEI. It's true that DEI has become a politically charged topic, especially in light of the upcoming presidential election. There's been an evolution in how DEI is perceived, with some viewing it as part of a border walk movement.

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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How do you address the misconceptions and misunderstandings surrounding DEI in this current cultural climate?

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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First things first, starting with belonging. What do you mean by belonging in the workplace? And why is that important?

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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My next question is, you've worked extensively across different regions. You're American, but now you're based in France. You've also had experiences in Hong Kong, Singapore, and China. With that kind of global perspective, I'd like to hear your thoughts on DEI practices. Through your eyes, what are some of the key differences between Eastern and Western approaches to DEI?

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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Are there misconceptions or different ways to address these issues? It seems like a lot of focus, a lot of coverage on DEI tends to come from an American or Western perspective. Could you compare both sides, East and West, in terms of how they practice DEI, the challenges they face and how they tackle these problems?

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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Thank you.

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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I agree with you 100% when it comes to belonging versus loneliness. Early in my career, I was immersed in big organizations, and it was all about work and climbing the corporate ladder. Belonging was seen as more of a soft feeling, something you didn't really think about much. You worked hard, made your boss happy, and got along Maybe you'll get promoted faster and better.

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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Some would call it luck. Others would call it politics. That's just a normal corporate life. But when you talk about belonging in the workplace, especially now that you absorbed it and you've been involved in different cultures, I'm curious, why is it so difficult to develop a true and sustainable sense of belonging for employees?

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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And how can we nurture that sense given all the complexities of corporate life?

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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a leader in the world of human resources and a master of diversity, equity, and inclusion at Monette, Tennessee, one of the oldest and largest wine and spirits conglomerates in the world. Greg has an amazing story to share, covering the unique experiences that have shaped his leadership style and his strategic approach to DEI.

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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As you were sharing. It reminded me of an incident from about 20 years ago when I worked at an international financial institution. At that time, I was a store employee. I received a lot of positive feedback from clients. I was sent to the headquarters for special training, first of its kind, and my boss rewarded me for all the hard work I put in.

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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My clients recognized it, and I was working incredibly hard, 12 to 14 hours a day, seven days a week. I genuinely enjoyed the work. In your terms, I felt a strong sense of belonging to the role, to the company, and to my clients. The pay wasn't anything special, even under industry standards. But I was so motivated and invested in the work. Then something changed.

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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my boss left, and her replacement had a completely different style and approach. I wouldn't place blame entirely on this new person, but we didn't get along the way I had with my previous boss. The entire culture and team dynamics shifted the vibe The chemistry, the sentiment, everything fell off. That's when I lost my sense of belonging.

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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I kept working hard and professionally to serve my clients. But there was an internal conflict with my new supervisor. This eroded the connection I had felt to my work. The result? I quit the job, and it came as a surprise to everyone, clients, colleagues, even those at headquarters. They couldn't understand it because I had been such a hard-knocker, talented analyst. For them, it was a real loss.

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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For me, the damage was deeper. That's when I experienced my first episode of mental illness, what we would call now burnout. And that burnout spiraled into depression. I'm sharing this now because it ties back to what you said about the sense of belonging or the lack of it.

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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When that sense is lost, especially in a role where I had thrived and found purpose, the consequences were severe for both my career and my health. It was a perfect example of how critical belonging really is.

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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Greg, let's start with you giving us a bit of an introduction to this book, as well as a brief background on yourself for those who might be tuning in for the first time. This will help the listeners understand where you're coming from. Before we get into the book's content, the lessons and the teachings you want to share.

Chief Change Officer

#280 Greg Morley, Author of Bond: Building Belonging in the Age of Burnout

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We've touched upon belonging. Let's move forward to talk a bit about inclusion. How would you define DEI? Or what does DEI mean to you?

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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Monet Tennessee is a diverse group with brands all over the world. Given this depth and breadth, diversity becomes a source of complexity. I can imagine that in such a multicultural, multi-layered enterprise, you must respect each brand's uniqueness while maintaining alignment with the firm's overall values. How do you tailor the DEI initiatives to manage this complexity?

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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Next, as we dive into advancing the DEI agenda at Monat, Tennessee, Greg will share how he's been listening intently to the people who embody the heart and soul of the group's businesses, fostering an inclusive culture that's grounded in reality. In our third segment, we'll dive into the complexities of managing DEI across Monet Tennessee's diverse array of brands.

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In this episode, I've got a special treat for you.

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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Can you be more specific about a representative organization? What does it look like?

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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Can you give us an example where the cultural shifts you've worked hard to drive within the organization have helped real people, your colleagues, take more control over their careers? How do these changes manifest in individual employee experiences?

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#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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Greg will explain how he tailors the DEI strategies to respect and reflect each brand's unique identity. while aligning with the group's overarching corporate values. Lastly, we certainly can't overlook Greg's upcoming book, Bond. where he shares invaluable lessons on building meaningful connections, not just within the workplace, but in our everyday lives.

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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When we first met, you told me about publishing a new book. The title is Bond. What drove you to write the first book in your life about creating a sense of belonging and bonding in organizations? How do your own experiences tie into the bigger picture of diversity and inclusion you lay out in your book?

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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please do share a copy with me when it's available. I would like to host you again to talk more about your book, your ideas. From what I heard, this book is not simply about DEI. The world of work is changing. Building bonds, building bridges, building spaces across individuals is not limited within the walls of organization. It's simply the basic need of human beings.

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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I can see that your book applies to a lot of real scenarios.

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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Yes. And we will have more Chief Change Officers around the world. Thank you so much.

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

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#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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It's about fostering a sense of true belonging and deeper inclusion everywhere. So if you are eager to learn how to make your own laws of change and hear from one of the leading voices in human transformation today, you are in the right place. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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Welcome. I'm very excited to have you on board. You are in the people function with a specific focus on DEI. Can you talk about how your early career experiences shape what you do today? What did you learn back then that still has implications and relevance for you being a people leader with a change enablement mandate?

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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You have been in the people function, in the HR function for long, but then you were in the commercial world for like eight years. Tell us more about your transformation or how your commercial experience prepared you going into the HR area.

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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Today, we are joined by Greg Morley, a leader in the world of human resources and a master of diversity, equity, and inclusion at Monette, Tennessee, one of the oldest and largest wine and spirits conglomerates in the world. Greg has an amazing story to share, covering the unique experiences that have shaped his leadership style and his strategic approach to DEI.

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

475.488

You come from the client-facing and operational side. In your experience, how important is it for people leaders to work closely with other leaders like CFOs and CEOs? Can you share with us how this chemistry, this teamwork impacts the success of a modern day company

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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Throughout your career life, you've been involved in the DEI efforts at different points in time. Now, at Monette, Tennessee, have your approaches to DEI changed over the years? Are there any big lessons you've picked up along the way?

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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Let's explore what we'll uncover today with Greg. First, We'll discover how his early days handling customer complaints at call centers helped him develop empathy, quick thinking, and communication skills that became the cornerstone of his leadership at Disley, Hasbro, and now Monat, Tennessee.

Chief Change Officer

#279 Greg Morley: Built, Not Bought—The Gen X Playbook for Real Inclusion

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In advancing the DEI agenda, can you describe the initial challenges and strategies your firm faced? How did you begin to tackle issues like, for example, unconscious bias and change company policies to be more techoli-inclusive, rather than using DEI simply as part of corporate branding jargon?

Chief Change Officer

#136 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part Two

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In the last episode, part one, We looked into who Sarah is, what she's been through, and how her past has shaped her purpose today. In this episode, part two, we'll dig into the book, her why, her audience, her objectives, and her vision. That said, Sarah's story and her book aren't just personal. They are also deeply rational. She's packed it with tools, analysis, and a lot of business concepts.

Chief Change Officer

#136 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part Two

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Your book's first page is dedicated to quite a range of individuals and I want to read it out loud for the benefit of our listeners. This book is dedicated to introverts, people with ADHD, those on the autism spectrum, trauma survivors, strategy brain square packs, frustrated change makers, revolutionaries, a combination of rebels and revolutionaries. And lastly, thinker doers.

Chief Change Officer

#136 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part Two

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There are a couple of interesting terms there. So why did she choose this audience? I'm guessing you must personally resonate with these people. Maybe you were or still are one of them. Why did you dedicate this book to this specific group?

Chief Change Officer

#136 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part Two

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When it comes to business books, It's difficult to make a lot of money unless you are already a big celebrity with branding, with resources for marketing, widespread marketing, a big publishing house behind you, and a strong social media presence. Even then, those thought authors tend to focus on board generic topics that appeal to the mass market because that's where the scalability is.

Chief Change Officer

#136 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part Two

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For anyone familiar with business school models and buzzwords, you'll find her approach balances speaking to a specific audience while delivering real business value. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#136 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part Two

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But with your book, you are doing something different. You are speaking to a specific group of people, people like you, who you want to help and connect with. Sure, we might not have the exact statistics on how many people fall into that group, but it's bold. It takes courage to put in the time and money, hire people and contractors, and say, I'm going to speak up no matter the judgment.

Chief Change Officer

#136 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part Two

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And that's what I see in your book, a special kind of love letter. But one that's not just personal, it's also rational. You've got tools, analysis, and a lot of business concepts bathed into it. For someone who is familiar with business school models and buzzwords, I can see you've really balanced Speaking to a specific audience with delivering real business and economic value.

Chief Change Officer

#136 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#136 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part Two

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revolutionaries, that is rebels and revolutionaries combined, as well as thinker-doers. Why? Because our guest today, Sarah Lobkowicz, is part of these groups. And she's not holding back anymore. In fact, she spent months writing two books that bring together her life lessons and business strategy experience to help us all wake up our inner strategist and achieve big goals. No BS.

Chief Change Officer

#136 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part Two

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Is that why you came up with the title for this book, You Are a Astrologist? Was it inspired by your vision of democratizing astrology for everyone?

Chief Change Officer

#136 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This episode and the last one are for the introverts, the ADHDs, those on the autism spectrum, trauma survivors, strategy brain square packs, frustrated change makers.

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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I could easily spend a good 10 minutes here just running through her credentials bio and all the incredible things she's achieved. But let's be honest, I know you're here for the insights. So while I'm skipping the long intro to save us some time, I can't recommend enough diving into her profile yourself. Trust me, if you're even a bit of a nerd like me, Juliana's work is a gold mine.

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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So are you carrying on with your original research back in 2020 and today with all the new development and still studying this? If you are, what's your status? What's your observation?

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Coming to us from the halls of UC Berkeley is associate professor and psychologist, Juliana Schroeder.

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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Now, let me share a bit about my user viewpoint. Yes, I use chat GPT sometimes. I don't have that conscious feelings of power when I use it. Do I see it as assistant? I see it as honestly as a colleague, so to speak. Although I found this colleague, a lot of times provides me with a huge degree of confirmation bias. Whatever I say, oh yeah, that's right. You can think of it this way and all that.

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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I'm very conscious about confirmation bias when I use CheckGPT. When I ask them questions, I try to get them to help me figure it out, or maybe write something more for me, give me more inspiration, creativity, and they keep coming back with the same idea. Eventually I said, that's not working.

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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I would imagine if this is talking to a human colleague, I might be more careful in terms of the language I use. Am I saying any things that may upset you? But I still see it as a machine. And as of now, the emotional aspect of it is not so human yet. So that's why I don't see it just as an assistant. I would take it more like advisor, you know, depending on situation.

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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Well, if I structure the questions, I must say they give me some ideas as if I'm talking to a fairly intelligent person. And then we keep communicating. Then this kind of interaction or conversation sometimes, honestly, is more interesting. than talking to a human who may not have any sense of independent thinking.

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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Juliana and I met at Chicago Booth. She was my TA for two courses taught by two amazing professors and social psychologists, Nick Apley and Linda Ginzel. I still remember the first day we met, I was sitting next to her on the front row when the whole classroom was packed. I didn't know she was actually my TA. I raised hand and answered the question. I got the question wrong.

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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I do see the value in terms of using the machine, a highly intelligent machine, and me as the human also being aware of what kind of biases that I may face if I use this tool. Just be aware of that, be mindful not to be distracted or get so carried away by that. So far, this conversation, this interaction for me is still manageable.

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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But then I watched a video posted by an adjunct professor of entrepreneurship from Chicago Bull. The topic is why AI may be your best astrologist. I know you work with and teach a lot of MBAs, executives. Do you see us, like people like us, decision-making, executive decision-making, perhaps AI could be one of our best astrologists?

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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Then she whispered to me, trying to explain the reason why. Then we met again in Singapore. This time, I pulled her aside. asking her about reciprocity, a very important concept in psychology and negotiation. In my eyes, she is very sharp. Those who know me well understand that I use this word very selectively as a compliment. Over time, I've observed the growth of her academic career.

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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Last question, I'd like to get your insights. Now, you study human to human interaction conversation, and we just talk about me as a human talking, working with a machine. This human and machine interaction will become more and more common. For younger kids, they are going to grow up in this era. So they just would be more immersed in this space.

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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Adults being trained and grow up in an era where it's just human to human. And now we are in this human machine era. So what advice would you give to MBA students, executives, managers, how we could make better use of our human communication skills Or if you have to highlight a couple of premium human qualities, human skills that we should hold on to.

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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I told myself, I must invite her to my podcast. So, wish granted, here we are. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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Let's start with a brief introduction of your background. For the benefit of the audience, how I met Juliana, that was when I was at Chicago Bull.

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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Check out your personal website. You have published a lot of papers over time. Like you said, you study power, study negotiation, decision making. I was wondering when you were in the master, PhD program, when you were thinking of

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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Choosing specific areas of research, why you chose language, mind perception, what's fascinating about those areas that you decide, well, yeah, I really, really want to go deep to become a deep thinker, researcher, and teacher in those areas?

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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You might have noticed most of our guests have taken quite the scenic route through their careers. Juliana, on the other hand, has kept her eyes on one prize, digging deep into the human mind. which is now leading the charge in teaching negotiation and management to both MBA students and seasoned executives.

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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One thing before we deep dive into your research areas, while you're talking about trying to understand the mind in other people, always wondering like psychologists themselves, how they try to understand their own psychology. You, as a living human, how you perceive or figure out your own psychology, would you make you smarter or more complicated in a sense to understand

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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Figure out your own psychological state of mind when something exciting happened or something bad happened.

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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Now, but that's one area or in particular one paper that interests me when I did my research for this interview. This paper was published in year 2020. It's called Power and Decision Making.

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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new directions for research in the age of artificial intelligence now that's 2020 that's before we have chat gpt and many other ai tools as of today so can you tell us a bit more about your argument for that paper back then

Chief Change Officer

#351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection

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Take a quick look at her website or UC Berkeley's, and you'll be blown away by her achievements. We are talking a laundry list of titles, a mountain of papers, and a substantial collection of awards. And get this, she's bagged not one, but two master's degrees and two PhDs at an age where many are still figuring things out.

Chief Change Officer

#350 Lucy Gernon: Redefining Confidence—No Quotes, No Apologies

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When we talked last time, you mentioned how much you focus on confidence in your coaching, especially for women at work. Yet, I've noticed that confidence is often overused, almost a buzzword in every training, learning, and tech product. I was wondering, how do you define confidence differently?

Chief Change Officer

#350 Lucy Gernon: Redefining Confidence—No Quotes, No Apologies

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Speaking of coaching your clients to boost their confidence, I know you've developed a signature program called the Executive Presence Blueprint. Why did you create this program? What was your thought process behind it? And could you share some of the key principles that guide your approach?

Chief Change Officer

#350 Lucy Gernon: Redefining Confidence—No Quotes, No Apologies

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Lucy, let's start with the juicy part of the interview with you telling us about your journey from biotechnology to women leadership coaching.

Chief Change Officer

#350 Lucy Gernon: Redefining Confidence—No Quotes, No Apologies

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, let's give a warm welcome to our first guest from Ireland, Lucy Garner.

Chief Change Officer

#350 Lucy Gernon: Redefining Confidence—No Quotes, No Apologies

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In all of your time helping clients, have you ever had a situation where the learning outcome didn't quite meet your expectations? And what did you learn from that experience?

Chief Change Officer

#350 Lucy Gernon: Redefining Confidence—No Quotes, No Apologies

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So who are your ideal clients? Could you describe them for us? Perhaps some of our listeners might be interested in seeking your help.

Chief Change Officer

#350 Lucy Gernon: Redefining Confidence—No Quotes, No Apologies

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These days, I always like to end our conversation with a multi-billion dollar question. We're entering the AI era, with innovations like AI agents and AI coaches emerging. From a coaching perspective, how do you see this AI-human partnership evolving? And in what ways do you think human coaches like yourself still hold a competitive advantage over AI advancements?

Chief Change Officer

#350 Lucy Gernon: Redefining Confidence—No Quotes, No Apologies

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Let's give a big round of applause to our first guest from Ireland for her courage and strength as a mother of three, not only realizing her own ambitions, but also helping other ambitious women achieve their dreams through human connections. Thank you, Lucy.

Chief Change Officer

#350 Lucy Gernon: Redefining Confidence—No Quotes, No Apologies

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#350 Lucy Gernon: Redefining Confidence—No Quotes, No Apologies

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So you have this hidden burning fire inside you for long. Yet, I recall you told me once that when you shared your first post on LinkedIn, that was the scariest moment in your life. So tell us more about how this transformation of you

Chief Change Officer

#350 Lucy Gernon: Redefining Confidence—No Quotes, No Apologies

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Lucy is not only a mother of three and a millennial, but she also has a background in biotech and has spent many years in medical science. Yet in the last few years, She made a bold leap into entrepreneurship, now coaching emerging and established women leaders. Here on my show, I don't share and tell success stories to glorify success. I dive into real, lived experiences

Chief Change Officer

#350 Lucy Gernon: Redefining Confidence—No Quotes, No Apologies

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You are a mother of three and you're an entrepreneur. You've really shown us how to balance a family and a business. Many of our listeners face similar challenges, worrying about mortgages and stable paychecks, understanding that success isn't just handed to them. With your impressive journey, if you could share some practical advice for those dreaming of starting their own business,

Chief Change Officer

#350 Lucy Gernon: Redefining Confidence—No Quotes, No Apologies

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what would it be? How can they make that leap while still managing family commitments?

Chief Change Officer

#350 Lucy Gernon: Redefining Confidence—No Quotes, No Apologies

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You are a coach yourself now. Ever been on the other side of that? Being coached? How has being coached helped you become better at helping your own clients?

Chief Change Officer

#350 Lucy Gernon: Redefining Confidence—No Quotes, No Apologies

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complete with successes, setbacks, surprises, and all the twists and turns. Lucy's story is exactly that. And it's one I'm excited to explore beyond just the accolades she's received. Let's begin this journey together now.

Chief Change Officer

#349 Benedikt Oehmen: Layoffs, Level-Ups, and the ‘Big Three’ for Starting Over

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It sounds like your journey into coaching was part of your own self-discovery, where you eventually turned that interest into a full-time practice. Now, when it comes to career transitions, people handle them in different ways. Whether the transition was triggered by downsizing, layoffs, involuntary resignation, or simply wanting to do something different.

Chief Change Officer

#349 Benedikt Oehmen: Layoffs, Level-Ups, and the ‘Big Three’ for Starting Over

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Now, Benedict is turning that experience into something powerful. He's built a full-time practice to help others navigate similar challenges of layoffs and downsizing, offering a shift in mindset and sharing the principles from his book, where he lays out his big three strategies for stepping out of the shadows and moving on. Better, faster, and stronger. Welcome, Benedick. Welcome to our show.

Chief Change Officer

#349 Benedikt Oehmen: Layoffs, Level-Ups, and the ‘Big Three’ for Starting Over

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not everyone sees it in a positive light. Some people see transitions as a failure or setback, while others see them as opportunities for growth, while others see them as opportunities for growth. Personally, I see career transitions as growth opportunities, though I admit that there was a time in my life when I didn't.

Chief Change Officer

#349 Benedikt Oehmen: Layoffs, Level-Ups, and the ‘Big Three’ for Starting Over

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Every day, it seems like you can't escape news of layoffs, corporate downsizing, or restructuring. Today's guest, Benedict Uman, has been directly impacted.

Chief Change Officer

#349 Benedikt Oehmen: Layoffs, Level-Ups, and the ‘Big Three’ for Starting Over

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I used to see them as personal failures, which made the process really tough for me. But back to you, now that you've built a coaching practice and have been working with people, what do you think causes some individuals to struggle with seeing career transitions as opportunities? Why do some people see it as a setback or even feel resentment towards making a change?

Chief Change Officer

#349 Benedikt Oehmen: Layoffs, Level-Ups, and the ‘Big Three’ for Starting Over

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You've designed a framework called the Big Three. Can you elaborate on that? How do you use these three principles to help your client take better control of their careers and future?

Chief Change Officer

#349 Benedikt Oehmen: Layoffs, Level-Ups, and the ‘Big Three’ for Starting Over

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Benedick. You've written a book which is freely available. Through this book and your coaching practice, you're helping people through career dilemmas, layoffs, and various forms of corporate downsizing. I'm sure many listeners are eager to hear more about your insights, your philosophy, and your approach to these challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#349 Benedikt Oehmen: Layoffs, Level-Ups, and the ‘Big Three’ for Starting Over

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#349 Benedikt Oehmen: Layoffs, Level-Ups, and the ‘Big Three’ for Starting Over

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But before we dive into that, could you share a bit about your own story? Where are you originally from in Germany? What brought you to France? And what did you do there? Let's start with your background and then we'll explore different parts of your experiences in more depth.

Chief Change Officer

#349 Benedikt Oehmen: Layoffs, Level-Ups, and the ‘Big Three’ for Starting Over

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Wow. You've stayed with one firm for 17 years, taking on multiple roles. Talk about loyalty. In today's workplace, loyalty to employers or employees. Even employers' loyalty to employees feels like antique. Premium, high value, but very, very few people truly understand the value. How was that experience for you? Tell us about how your roles evolved over time.

Chief Change Officer

#349 Benedikt Oehmen: Layoffs, Level-Ups, and the ‘Big Three’ for Starting Over

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You mentioned that you study physics, which I have to admit, I know nothing about. I've always thought people who study physics are super smart. But then in a gaming company, you were dealing with customers, working with people and creating games. How did all of that come together for you?

Chief Change Officer

#349 Benedikt Oehmen: Layoffs, Level-Ups, and the ‘Big Three’ for Starting Over

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Benedict has spent 17 years with Blizzard, a market leader in creating epic gaming experiences. In today's workplace, loyalty to employers or even employers' loyalty to employees feels like a relic of the past. So how was that experience for him? For the most part, it was positive and enjoyable. But then, things shifted. Hearts were broken. Homes were shuttered.

Chief Change Officer

#349 Benedikt Oehmen: Layoffs, Level-Ups, and the ‘Big Three’ for Starting Over

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So, if I look at your journey, it seems like, for the most part, two-thirds of it, your time at Blizzard was quite positive and enjoyable. You had the right kind of culture, a great team, And you were learning through different roles. But then something changed. It seemed like the trigger point was the merger.

Chief Change Officer

#349 Benedikt Oehmen: Layoffs, Level-Ups, and the ‘Big Three’ for Starting Over

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New policies, a shift in business direction, and ultimately a change in the overall culture. That's when a lot of changes started happening for you personally, as well as for the team and the things you care about at this company. Over time, especially around the COVID period, you found yourself trying different things, staying engaged in the firm, but the whole environment happened.

Chief Change Officer

#349 Benedikt Oehmen: Layoffs, Level-Ups, and the ‘Big Three’ for Starting Over

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shifting, becoming less familiar and no longer the right fit for you. With the downsizing and layoffs, it sounds like that was the moment when it became clear that it was time for you to move on. And now you're channeling that experience into your current practice, helping others who face similar challenges and layoffs.

Chief Change Officer

#349 Benedikt Oehmen: Layoffs, Level-Ups, and the ‘Big Three’ for Starting Over

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At what point during or after your time at Blizzard did you have that testimony like, hey, I've been through this tough experience. Why not turn it into a way to help others? Was there a specific moment that made you realize, this is what I want to do. This is my new mission.

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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So the talent supply comes from Sri Lanka, and the demand for such talent is mainly from small and medium-sized service firms, particularly in the States, focusing on roles like operations and marketing. Your vision is to accelerate and scale this model to connect global talent with global demand. Is that correct?

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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I've seen business models like this before, essentially redistributing skills and talent by connecting supply and demand more closely. Now, there are a couple of major trends impacting the workplace and the workforce, not just in the US, but globally. I imagine they affect your agency's approach in solving problems for both sides. One of the hottest topics, of course, is AI.

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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You mentioned that you place roles like admin, operations, and marketing. areas where ai is increasingly capable of taking over tasks so i'd like to pick your brain on how you balance this shift how do you navigate the balance between providing human talent and accommodating clients who might prefer tech solutions over human ones?

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm chatting with Ian Myers from New York, founder and CEO of Oceans, a modern talent agency connecting high-skilled talent from Sri Lanka with US businesses.

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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It's about doing what feels right, collecting data points and experiences, adjusting course as needed, and simply forging ahead. Let's dive into the ocean of Ian Myers.

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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So what you are saying is, while there are areas where AI can add value for cost or efficiency reasons, you still believe that there is a significant demand for human contribution in the roles you place?

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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Another trend gaining momentum in the workplace is ageism. And it's not just affecting the older population. It impacts younger people, too. Looking back at my early career in finance, an industry dominated by men, and in the US, primarily white men, I faced challenges being an Asian woman in that space. So I'm curious about your experience. While ageism may not be your main focus,

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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As part of the talent ecosystem, how do you approach this issue? Are you working to build a team that's not just culturally diverse, but also inclusive across age groups? And do you have strategies in place to help people of different ages amplify the skills and talents?

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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and had a conversation with a good friend there. He's 49. He has exited his last business. And now he's building a new venture focused on closing the gender gap. He mentioned that as a man, he has enjoyed all the benefits from the system, but he has a 17-year-old daughter, and he wants a society to be more welcoming for her when she enters the workforce.

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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Good morning, Ian. Yes, it's evening time for me. Welcome to our show. You got a lot, a lot of things to share today, but let's start with your history, your background. You're fairly young, so let's start with your academic background. Then we'll move on to your professional experiences.

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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In Japan, alongside ageism, gender inequality is surely a significant issue. Now, as a company leader and founder, you have the autonomy to shape your team with your own values. But when it comes to sourcing talent for your clients, do they mainly focus on cost efficiency, just looking to fill positions at the lowest cost possible? Or among your 300 clients,

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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Do you see a genuine interest in prioritizing diversity when it comes to factors like age and gender? I'm curious how your clients approach these issues.

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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So it sounds like you are very aware of these issues. I understand that a big part of your value proposition centers around cost efficiency, which makes sense. But when clients express specific preferences, whether it's related to diversity, age, or other factors, Do you approach each case individually to make your judgment on what's the right call? How do you determine where to draw the line?

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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I want to wrap up our conversation with one final question. linking back to something you mentioned at the beginning. When I asked you to introduce yourself, you started with your academic background, which makes sense, but you also brought up an important point. Now that we're heading into 2025, many young people, those younger than you and me, are questioning the value of a degree.

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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They wonder what kind of degree makes sense. Is it all about AI now for career prospects? Or should they pursue something that are interesting and meaningful to them like you did for personal fulfillment Given your experience in both the talent industry and your own educational path, what advice would you give to those listeners who are making these tough decisions about college and career paths?

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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Should they follow their gut and passion or align their choices with the tech-driven reality we see today?

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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Exactly. It's truly an era of chaos. And now you know why I called this show Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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That's exactly right. No one can truly calculate change or predict every outcome with absolute accuracy. I completely agree with you. It's all about centering on yourself. It's not about being self-centered, but rather understanding what aligns with your values and vision. It's about knowing what works for you and what doesn't.

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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As you mentioned earlier, it's not always about having everything calculated or planned out. Sometimes it's about going with what feels right. If something doesn't resonate, you move on. These instincts and tendencies are valuable data points They are guides that help us navigate the journey ahead.

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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Thank you for your kind words. This is very encouraging. One of the best comments I've ever received so far. And of course, thank you for all your sharing and your time. and for working with me to create an out-of-the-box storytelling for this episode. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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Great. We'll definitely talk more about Oceans in the second part of our interview. Now back to your personal journey. You mentioned that you actually moved aboard to Japan, to other Asian countries. And I believe you, in the grad school, Stanford in particular, you were into Buddhism, is that right?

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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would you say that your exposure to Buddhism, philosophy, and Eastern culture has influenced your approach to investing, entrepreneurship, and even your overall life philosophy today? I'm originally from Hong Kong, so I did the opposite. I studied and emerged myself in Western culture, which has shaped a lot of how I think and conduct myself.

Chief Change Officer

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I'm curious about the impact Eastern culture and Buddhism have had on you as an American, especially when it comes to running and building businesses.

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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Early on, you mentioned that you started with literature, moving on to international relations. Then you moved to Japan. got the chance to connect with someone in banking, which led you into finance and investment. From there, you learned about building businesses, and eventually, you started your own companies. Looking back at all these transitions,

Chief Change Officer

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What would you say are the common themes or real drivers behind them? I ask this to many of my guests. Some say they've always been self-starters, while others say life is all about learning and that each change was a way to learn something new. What about you? What are the themes or drivers that have shaped your journey so far?

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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On most podcasts, you'll hear him share stories about scaling his company from zero to over $10 million in revenue in under two years, or his insights into venture investment. But today, I'm not interested in those stories. They are surely impressive, but not the full picture. What fascinates me about Ian is that, like me, he is a fan of Tintin.

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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You are like Tintin. For those listening, when I first spoke with Ian about this interview, I discovered we had a common interest, our mutual admiration for Tintin. The adventurous explorer, always eager to dive into new places and experiences. Just like Tintin, Ian's got that same curiosity and spirit for discovery.

Chief Change Officer

#348 Ian Myers: From Tintin to Talent—Building Global Teams With Soul

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Wow. People at your age usually see Sam Altman, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, all the tech titans as their role models. Yet, you say Tintin is your role model.

Chief Change Officer

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Your firm is called Ocean. I see that you are swimming in this vast ocean of the future of work. What fascinates you about this industry, about the challenges in this space that made you dive into this big ocean and decide to leave your mark?

Chief Change Officer

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For the audience who might not be familiar with your firm, could you give us a quick rundown of what your firm does? Specifically, who are your top clients and what kinds of problems do you help solve?

Chief Change Officer

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Tintin's spirit of adventure clearly impacts Ian's own approach to work and life. From the US to Japan, from literature to banking, venture capital to entrepreneurship, and gaming to launching a talent agency, He's been on a true journey. What is his secret to success? It's not about over-calculating.

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But without it, scalability becomes a challenge. How does HAPI navigate this blend? How do you manage that balance between using technology to scale solutions while still preserving the essential human element that truly makes a difference?

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#62 Personal Loss, Career Growth, and Real Change: Rahshea Cardiff’s Happiness Journey - Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation values. who couldn't use a bit more happiness? This episode and the next dives deep into what it means to find joy and resilience in both work and life.

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In this two-part series, she shares her journey of resilience, why she joined Happy Companies, and how she's working to enhance employee experience using technology, but without losing the touch, the human touch. In our last episode, we focused on Rishia's personal story and career transitions.

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It makes perfect sense. Let's conclude our conversation with a quote that you shared with me last time. The quote is this. Maybe the journey isn't so much about becoming anything. Maybe it's about unbecoming everything that isn't really you. So you can be who you were meant to be in the first place. I love it because it captures the essence of personal growth and transformation.

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Rishia, as someone who has walked this path of becoming and unbecoming, I'd love for you to share your reflections on this concept How can listeners, whether they are in a corporate setting, going through personal challenges, or simply feeling stuck, embrace becoming and unbecoming, quote unquote, to break free and start their own journey towards happiness?

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What advice can you offer to help them begin to unlock fulfillment and real change in their lives?

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Today, we'll explore her role at Happy Companies and her vision for transforming the workplace, balancing tech innovation with genuine care for people. Let's get started and find some happiness. Great, let's dive into happy companies. To kick things off, can you give us an introduction to the firm? What exactly does happy focus on and what's your role within the firm?

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We only have one life and it's unpredictable. So make each day count. Absolutely. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

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Then from there, we'll explore the different aspects of the happy experience and what it really means to build a happy quote-unquote company.

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I'm thrilled to introduce Rishya Kardas, the VP of Partnerships at Happy Companies. Happy Companies is a venture focused on building happier, healthier workplaces. Rochelle brings over 20 years of experience in people management across major brands like Best Buy, Starbucks, and Microsoft. And she's deeply passionate about talent development and employee experience.

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Absolutely. I can see how your background makes you an incredible asset for a firm like Happy. When someone like you with over 20 years in corporate America joins the team, it's not just about the skills you bring. It's also about the invariable unique insights you've gained from first-hand live experience.

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You've seen and navigated the pain points of the people function in large organizations, which positioned you perfectly to innovate solutions that can make a difference genuinely. So with all of that expertise and perspective, What is your specific role at Happy?

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As we all know, bureaucracy, corporate politics, and constant changes like layoffs and digital transformation can make it tough for employees to thrive and survive. Richier herself has navigated intense transitions. leaving a corporate role at Microsoft to pursue entrepreneurship, experiencing the loss of her mother, facing divorce, and raising her first child.

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I totally understand where you're coming from. On one side, it's exciting to see technology enabling people-first solutions like HAPI to reach and support so many lives. On the other hand, I must confess my skepticism about balancing the technology with the human touch. Solving people-centered challenges cannot solely rely on technology. When we do, we risk dehumanization.

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At the end of the day, it's about knowing yourselves and being intentional in choosing the workplace culture that fits your character and values. If you thrive in office politics and it energizes you, a politically charged environment might suit you. But if that's not who you are, staying in such an environment could lead to frustration, burnout, disengagement, and lower productivity.

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#214 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is an old friend of our show, Jennifer Selby Long. Jennifer was with us in season three, episode seven and eight.

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For those feeling stuck, Reflect on whether you can adapt without compromising your values. Ask yourself, does this place, does this environment truly support who I am and how I work best? If the answer is no, it might be time to move on to a place that aligns better with your strengths. It allows you to grow. Change isn't just about leaving. It's about finding the right fit to thrive.

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#214 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part Two

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An environment that is so vested in office politics only to find themselves in a similar situation at the new job is like running away from one problem only to land in another. that led us into a bordered discussion on toxic cultures and even the role office politics play in these dynamics.

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Until next time, take care.

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#214 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part Two

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We also touched on how some leaders or managers might unknowingly struggle with their personality disorders, which can contribute to these environments. Today, we are honing in on office politics specifically. Let's be real, who hasn't faced them? Whether it's subtle power struggles or outright maneuvering is something everyone has encountered.

Chief Change Officer

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Yet, when I type office politics into Google, I don't find as much as I expected. Maybe the term isn't as trendy, but that doesn't mean the problem isn't real or common. People might call it power dynamics, workplace dynamics, but the underlying issue is universal. Do you think having a hybrid work model might actually help manage office politics? Or does it make things worse?

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On one hand, with less in-person interaction, people aren't constantly grouped together, which might reduce some of the tension that can build in close quarters. It creates a bit of balance. You're not always in the office, so those dynamics don't dominate your entire day. But on the other hand, there's the behind-the-scenes factor.

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Those who want to curry favor with the boss could still do it privately in ways others might not even notice. is a different kind of politicking that could still cause issues, just less visibly. I imagine researchers are already looking into this shift and its impact on workplace dynamics. What's your take on how hybrid or remote work influences office politics? Does it shift the balance?

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Or do you think human nature finds a way to keep the same patterns alive just in new formats?

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When I worked in corporate, I collaborated with people across different locations. Hong Kong, London, Singapore, New York, Australia, all over the place. Remote collaboration was the norm for me, even without smartphones at the time. While the system's words moved, politics was always present, whether locally or at the headquarters.

Chief Change Officer

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In the last 30 years, Jennifer has been helping tech leaders navigate the waves of tech evolution, leading and managing organizational change. But leaders can't successfully drive organizational change without being a master of their own personal transformation. So last time, Jennifer and I looked into the natural process of personal change.

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Decisions made at headquarters, often driven by power dynamics, would ripple out and affect us in Asia Pacific Regional Office. You brought up the idea of some people being immune to politically charged environments. But I've also observed an other type, those who thrive in them. And here's where it gets frustrating.

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In many organizations, it's not the most skilled or high-performing employees who stay. often is those who navigate all this politics best. I've seen this firsthand. Imagine you have three people, A, B, and C. A and B are top performers, far better at their jobs than C. But somehow it's C who sticks around while A and B either leave for better opportunities or are squeezed out.

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Sometimes bosses prefer it that way because they don't want to feel threatened. Leaders may say they want to hire people smarter than them to push the organization forward But in reality, jealousy, ego, and sense of insecurity often get in the way. A boss might think, why should I keep someone who doesn't follow my orders, even if they are brilliant?

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Even when colleagues or clients sing the praises of these high performers, it can backfire. A boss who feels overshadowed might quietly engineer a way to push them out. The result? Talented, hardworking people leave feeling disillusioned and disengaged, while less capable colleagues remain. It's no wonder we hear terms like burnout or disengagement tossed around.

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But at its core, it comes down to a lack of respect and recognition for those who truly contribute. This cycle is what I have observed and even experienced myself. Those who stay aren't always the best performers. They are often just the best at playing the game. Jennifer, what's your perspective on this dynamic? How do we address this to create fairer and more effective workplaces?

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Office politics, as its core, isn't inherently good or bad. It is simply a reflection of human nature in group dynamics. When people come together to work towards a goal, there's always an underlying assumption that everyone is aligned. But in reality, goals often clash. When priorities conflict, tensions arise.

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people start using alternative methods to advance their own objectives and agenda at the expense of others. Sometimes, this is when things like back-stepping, bad-mouthing, or other manipulative behaviors emerge. It's not the politics itself that's the issue, but how it manifests. Pursuing individual agendas can erode trust and create a toxic environment. It's a cycle.

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We also talked about how to manage self-doubt and self-sabotage. Jennifer, welcome back to Chief Change Officer. At the end of our last conversation, we talked about something that really resonates with everybody. How some people, when making career moves, leave a toxic boss or a harmful culture or

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One person's actions trigger another's defense mechanism. And before you know it, the focus shifts from collaboration to competition. Understanding this dynamic is key to addressing it. The question becomes, how do we redirect these energies back towards shared goals and healthier workplace relationships?

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Could you elaborate on the last point you just made?

Chief Change Officer

#213 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is an old friend of our show, Jennifer Selby Long. Jennifer was with us in season three, episode seven and eight.

Chief Change Officer

#213 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part One

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Do you think having a hybrid work model might actually help manage office politics? Or does it make things worse? On one hand, with less in-person interaction, people aren't constantly grouped together, which might reduce some of the tension that can build in close quarters. it creates a bit of balance. You're not always in the office, so those dynamics don't dominate your entire day.

Chief Change Officer

#213 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part One

132.748

An environment that is so vested in office politics only to find themselves in a similar situation at the new job is like running away from one problem only to land in another. that led us into a bordered discussion on toxic cultures and even the role office politics play in these dynamics.

Chief Change Officer

#213 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part One

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But on the other hand, there's the behind-the-scenes factor. Those who want to curry favor with the boss could still do it privately in ways others might not even notice. is a different kind of politicking that could still cause issues, just less visibly. I imagine researchers are already looking into this shift and its impact on workplace dynamics.

Chief Change Officer

#213 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part One

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What's your take on how hybrid or remote work influences office politics? Does it shift the balance? Or do you think human nature finds a way to keep the same patterns alive just in new formats?

Chief Change Officer

#213 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part One

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Just now, we explored the root causes of office politics, why some thrive while others struggle, and how leadership behaviors often shape these dynamics. Tomorrow, in our next episode, we'll continue our series on office politics.

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If you've ever wondered why the smartest or hottest working people aren't always the ones who succeed, or why the best ideas don't always win, or why politics seem unavoidable. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media.

Chief Change Officer

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I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#213 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part One

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We also touched on how some leaders or managers might unknowingly struggle with their personality disorders, which can contribute to these environments. Today, we are honing in on office politics specifically. Let's be real, who hasn't faced them? Whether it's subtle power struggles or outright maneuvering is something everyone has encountered.

Chief Change Officer

#213 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part One

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Yet, when I type office politics into Google, I don't find as much as I expected. Maybe the term isn't as trendy, but that doesn't mean the problem isn't real or common. People might call it power dynamics, workplace dynamics, but the underlying issue is universal. So Jennifer, let's start with a two-part question. In your view, why do office politics exist?

Chief Change Officer

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What factors contribute to the crisis in the modern workplace?

Chief Change Officer

#213 Outsmarting Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long – Part One

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In the last 30 years, Jennifer has been helping tech leaders navigate the waves of tech evolution, leading and managing organizational change. But leaders can't successfully drive organizational change without being a master of their own personal transformation. So last time, Jennifer and I looked into the natural process of personal change.

Chief Change Officer

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Just the other week, I sat in a coffee shop. I overheard several groups dissecting what had gone wrong in their respective offices. It made me think, maybe I should bring this show to a coffee shop. Imagine all the real, raw discussions that could spark these lunch hours and coffee shop conversations. I call them unscripted water cooler moments where the true pulse of the office comes alive.

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It's where colleagues vent their frustrations, share unfiltered truths about the team, the boss, and all the office politics in play. now about leaders who treat the workplace like a chessboard, where employees are nothing more than pawns, moved or discarded depending on their usefulness. It's not so much about corruption as it is about cold, calculated strategy.

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For these leaders, it's not personal. It's strictly business. They justify their actions in the name of efficiency or the bottom line, if someone quits, they see it as an opportunity to reduce head count, not a problem to solve. They don't lose sleep over being called toxic. What's more, some leaders intentionally create competitive cutthroat environments.

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They think pitting people against each other will drive results. For employees, it often means distrust and endless office politics. That kind of culture impacts morale, collaboration, and long-term success. Jennifer Have you worked with clients who purposely planned the seats of office politics as part of the management strategy? As part of the management strategy?

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Or have you advised clients who have to navigate such politically charged environments? How do you help someone survive and even thrive in a culture that is shaped so intentionally and sometimes ruthlessly by leadership?

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We also talked about how to manage self-doubt and self-sabotage. Jennifer, welcome back to Chief Change Officer. Thank you for having me. I so appreciate it, Vin. At the end of our last conversation, we talked about something that really resonates with everybody. How some people, when making career moves, leave a toxic boss or a harmful culture or

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That reminded me of an other model often applied to organizations from the well-known organizational psychologist, Kurt Lewin. I've brought this up in season one, episode two, about Tim Pei-Ling's own transformation. His model is simple but powerful. There's the first stage, freeze, where you pause and assess. Then comes change, where you go through the transformation.

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In the last episode, we talked about the natural process of personal change. We also touched on self-doubt and self-sabotage. In this episode, we'll dive deeper. We'll discuss how neuroscience can help manage self-sabotage We'll explore how to make career moves that work in your favor instead of just jumping from one bad situation to another.

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Finally, there's unfreeze, where you solidify your new identity or the new you. So it's like freeze, change, and unfreeze. A lot of business school professors reference this model for organizational change. Are you familiar with this?

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In our last episode, we sat down with Jennifer Selby Long.

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Would you say that if someone gets stuck in the freeze phase but eventually manages to unfreeze themselves, it's a win? How would you personally define a successful change or a win when it comes to going through transformation?

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So far, throughout our interview, we've focused a lot on how you help leaders drive, lead, and manage change within the teams and organizations. Many of our listeners might be change leaders or change managers in their own spaces or organizations. Yet, the other group of people listening might be experiencing changes themselves. They could be considering making a change.

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or they may be forced to make a change because they've left their previous employer. You mentioned to me before that a situation often arises when people make a big career leap, sometimes wanting to escape workplace politics or ineffective boss. They might land a new job with similar terms, only to find themselves working for another ineffective boss.

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The goal, the real goal, is to make a change for the better. But these people end up jumping from one lousy situation to another. I know you got some really good insights about that, about how people should try to manage the situation differently. Even if they eventually decide to change jobs, they could and they should aim for a truly better outcome.

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Could you share with us some common mistakes people make when dealing with ineffective boss and how they might better handle the situation in order to set themselves up for more positive change.

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Thank you.

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Yes, absolutely. There's still so much to unpack. And not just when it comes to dealing with a boss, but also navigating office politics. These dynamics aren't just about one-on-one relationships. There are other players involved too. Interestingly, some people avoid using the term politics when discussing office environments.

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In fact, if you search for office politics on Google or LinkedIn, you won't find as much conversation about it as you might expect. But in reality, whether you're in a large corporation or a small team, as long as you're working with people, there's an inherent level of politics at play. And these politics play a crucial role, especially when it comes to driving change.

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You mentioned how some of your clients, including senior leaders, face power struggles or have to navigate complex stakeholder relationships. Power dynamics come into play, and as they think about leaving a job or dealing with ineffective boss, they also have to consider the bigger political picture they're in.

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I feel like this is an element often overlooked in the discussion of change management and leadership. Could you share your thoughts or experiences in helping clients manage these risks? How do you support them in balancing personal and organizational change? while surviving navigating the politics that comes with it.

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Until next time, take care.

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How do we deal with judgment? Judging ourselves? Judging others? Honestly, this aspect of judgment has come up a lot for me. In fact, in the second episode of season three, in which I spoke to Benedict from France, he'd mentioned the importance of being kind or kinder to ourselves. Yet we often forget that. Yes. If a colleague or someone else makes a mistake, I would say, it's okay, let's fix it.

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She spent 30 years helping tech leaders navigate the ever-changing world of technology and lead organizational transformation. In recent years, her focus has been on cybersecurity, digital transformation, and user experience. but don't tune out if these areas don't apply to you. What Jennifer shares is relevant for anyone who wants to thrive in today's fast-paced world.

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No need to blame, just move forward. But when I make the mistake, what do I do? Yes, I fixed. But at the same time, I start blaming myself. I think, why did I make this mistake? What's wrong with me? I become harsh on myself, much harsher than I am with others. In those moments, I realize I'm not loving myself enough.

Chief Change Officer

#212 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Backstabbing—Yes, It’s Possible

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This constant self-judgment can be really detrimental if we don't learn to manage it properly. Don't you think?

Chief Change Officer

#212 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Backstabbing—Yes, It’s Possible

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Stick with me for 30 minutes and you'll find something valuable in this conversation. This episode and the last one is all about guiding yourself through personal transformation. It's about stepping into your next opportunity. Leaders can't successfully drive organization change without first mastering their own personal growth.

Chief Change Officer

#212 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Backstabbing—Yes, It’s Possible

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Through all these years, you've worked with so many different people, each with their own unique characters and situations. I'm curious, looking back, can you recall any cases where you feel you didn't succeed in helping a client navigate or take charge of a change? By failure, I don't necessarily mean they disengaged with you, but rather the impact you aimed to create.

Chief Change Officer

#212 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Backstabbing—Yes, It’s Possible

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didn't work out as well as expected. Could you share one of those experiences? More importantly, what did you learn from it? Why do you think it was so challenging in that specific situation?

Chief Change Officer

#160 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part One

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I understand one of your key workshops focuses on failure, and you even coined the term Belfluencers, a blend of failure and influencers. I'd love to dive into this topic, but from a personal perspective, could you share your own experiences with failure? Not so much the workshops you facilitate or the lessons you teach, but your personal journey.

Chief Change Officer

#160 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part One

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How you've dealt with, navigated, and grown from failure over time. If you like, feel free to share specific stories and give us an overview of your journey with failure. Either way works.

Chief Change Officer

#160 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part One

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Tomorrow in part two, Erin will continue her story of failure. And she comes up with a magical way of navigating and rising above the failure experience. She called this method move on. Come back tomorrow and learn how to move on. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#160 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part One

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You mentioned as a teenager, you were determined to become a talk show host. I find that intriguing. Honestly, most people in their teens or even in college don't really know what they want to do, let alone something as specific as hosting a talk show. I mean, when I tell people I set my sights on getting into business school and earning an MBA at age 15, they often say, seriously? At 15?

Chief Change Officer

#160 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part One

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It seems so young to have such a focused goal. But back to you, why talk show host? I imagine some might dream of being a news anchor or getting into show business. But for you, what was it about talk show hosting that drew you in? Especially back then, before podcasts even existed, what was the story behind that ambition?

Chief Change Officer

#160 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part One

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So you're essentially in the business of joy. That's it, the short form. Not keynote speaker, not founder or CEO. If someone asks you for your elevator pitch, this should be the first sentence out of your mouth. Hey, I'm in the business of joy. Thank you, Vince. Yes. Let's say we're at a party. I introduce myself to you. Hey, I'm Vince. You reply, I'm Erin. Nice to meet you.

Chief Change Officer

#160 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part One

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Then I ask, what business are you in? And you hit me with, oh, I'm in the business of joy. Instant curiosity triggered. Naturally, I would say, oh, tell me more about that. It's such a great icebreaker.

Chief Change Officer

#160 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part One

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So no problem quoting that. I'm in the business of joy. And hey, I got it on record now. I promise I won't charge you for copyright yet. But seriously, something else fascinating from history is your first client. You mentioned you tried things out with United Airlines, UA, and eventually they pay you and everything took off from there. So what was that initial experiment with United like?

Chief Change Officer

#160 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part One

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From a young age, Erin dreamed of becoming a talk show host. Why did she choose that path? And how did her journey lead her to combine improv and business? I told Erin, you are in the business of joy. But beyond joy, we also talked about failure. Erin calls herself a fail-flu-lancer. a blend of failure and influence.

Chief Change Officer

#160 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part One

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What exactly did you do? I mean, Today, your business, Business Improv, is this successful franchise. But let's rewind to the beginning. What was iPhone 1.0 version of your business? What did it look like back then?

Chief Change Officer

#160 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Erin Deal, founder and CEO of Improved, a company that uses improv to help teams grow and thrive. Like me, she's also a top podcast host.

Chief Change Officer

#160 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part One

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What are your key performance indicators? How do you measure success in your business? And just as importantly, how do you identify areas for improvement?

Chief Change Officer

#160 From Talk Show Dreams to Improv CEO: Erin Diehl’s Business of Joy — Part One

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This two-part series dives into her unique approach to joy, failure, growth, and learning. No more waiting. Let's get started. Welcome, Erin. Good morning to you. Where are you exactly?

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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So basically, you're saying that while you work with women from different parts of the world, you've found that many of the challenges they face are universal. Yes, there may be local cultural elements or influences.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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But many of these issues across cultural, for example, being judged, whether it's for being married, having children, not having children, being LGBTQ, having long hair, short hair, these judgments aren't limited to women in Belgium, New York, San Francisco, or Hong Kong. They're simply issues that women everywhere face.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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You are helping women from different corners of the world navigate these universal challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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I'm curious, what's the persona of the woman leaders you tend to work with? Or those you are most drawn to helping? The reason I raised this question is because honestly, in my view, when mainstream people talk about women in leadership, it still feels a bit generic, especially before COVID.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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I noticed that mainstream media tended to showcase a certain type of woman leader, someone who might fit into a traditional mode. such as happily married with two or three children, long hair, maybe blonde, maybe blue eye. Essentially, the ideal wife role model in the eyes of men. This image doesn't differ much from the so-called woman's role models of the past.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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But we know that in reality, there's so much diversity in the world of women leaders. Now that we're in 2024 moving into 2025, the world is changing rapidly. So back to my original question, what types of women leaders do you like to work with or would you like to work with more? I believe even within the world of women leaders, we need more diversity.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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Some people thrive in it and even seek out more of it. It sounds like you saw Parliament as a stage to make a positive impact on the communities you care about. Your intentions were noble, but the environment made things worse. Not only were you unable to create the impact you wanted, but you also faced various attacks and toxic behavior. The same goes for office environments.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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Yes, you mentioned the word trust. In the last few interviews with different guests, whether they were coaches, tech innovators, or someone in recruitment, trust has come up as a key theme. As we enter the AI era, where we'll see more and more applications of AI in our daily lives, the importance of humanity with trust as a major component remains crucial.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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Trust is hard to build, hard to find, and once broken, difficult to repair. For you, as a coach and consultant, trust is a key success factor in pursuing and accelerating your agenda to make an impact on women leaders.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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To wrap up our interview, I'd like to ask you to share genuine advice with our listeners, whether they're young women in their 20s or more experienced women in their 40s, 50s, or 60s. You work with women from various backgrounds. So what are your top three pieces of advice for women facing life challenges, feeling lost, or struggling to find direction?

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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Perhaps they might eventually reach out to you for consulting sessions or seek help from a therapist or psychologist. How can they begin to feel more relaxed and take the first steps towards getting unstuck?

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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Yeah, I can truly resonate with a lot of those points. For example, the concept of success has become more distorted since the rise of social media. The glorification of success has only gotten worse with everyone talking up their achievements, making everything seem more glamorous than it really is. But honestly, this projection is not only misleading, it can also be entirely false.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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Many corporate workers might be incredibly smart and capable, but they struggle to climb the corporate ladder because they either don't play politics, don't play it well, or aren't willing to play it at all. I've been in a corporate world, and I've seen and experienced my share of political maneuvering. I've had my own struggles with mental health due to corporate politics.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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There's so much happening behind the scenes that people don't show. If you take those projections as truth or benchmarks for your own efforts, you end up losing because the benchmark isn't even real. Instead, you should focus on your own progress. Making progress every day, whether it's learning something new, reading a few pages, taking a short course, or exercising, is empowering.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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You see yourself improving day by day, and that's what matters. Learning is both empowering and an investment. People often talk about helping women become more financially independent, focusing on financial investment. But investing in yourself, learning new skills, earning certificates, or even exploring fields like prompt engineering can be incredibly lucrative.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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It opens up new opportunities that can eventually turn into financial gains. Learning is an investment in yourself. Women around the world have often been bound by certain systems and structures since childhood. Whenever we deviate from those expectations, we face judgment and discouragement. We need more healthy positivity to help us advance, even if it's just bed by bed.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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Because as you said, everything compounds over time.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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Sia, you are being modest. It's your first time as a guest on an English-speaking podcast. And it's also my first time as the host and creator of one. A lot of my guests don't have English as their mother tongue. Neither do I. But we are stepping up and moving forward to make our voices heard. And in a noisy world, that's what really matters. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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That's part of why I decided to become an entrepreneur, a free agent, rather than being bound or controlled by that environment. For many people, whether they are considering a job change, a career shift, or even trying to change the world as an entrepreneur, one key takeaway is to choose your environment and culture carefully. In certain cultures and environments, you can thrive and excel.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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In others, you might struggle. It doesn't mean you are not smart or that your intentions are not good enough. Often it's the environment and the culture that holds you back, preventing you from achieving what you want to achieve. That's been my experience.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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I know you have your own consulting and coaching practice. You've developed what you call the Women Leaders OS, which stands for Operating System. Can you tell us more about how this approach works? I know it is not a digital system like iOS, the Apple system, but I'm curious to learn more about how this operating system you've designed benefits your target audience, women leaders.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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She is a Moroccan immigrant, a burnout and bankruptcy survivor, a parliamentarian, a champion of diversity and inclusion. She is also the creator of Women Leaders OS and a Women's Leadership Coach. She is all these and more. Beyond these identities, what truly impresses me are the experiences that have shaped these transformations. Some people thrive in politics. others in stability.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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Like I said, we need more women leaders. And we are seeing more of them emerge around the world. My podcast is global with guests from different parts of the world. And a major part of the audience is in the US. But Siham, you are in Belgium, in Europe. And I'm curious about any specific challenges or interesting phenomena related to women leaders in your country or in your culture.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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Are there particular difficulties or unique cultural aspects in Belgium or your part of Europe that may differ from those in the US or Asia? I'd love to hear about your observations and experiences.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. How do I even begin to introduce our first guest from Belgium who has Moroccan roots? Her name is Siham El-Kawakibi.

Chief Change Officer

#129 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part Two

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Siham thrives in adversity. She describes herself as more than resilient. She is anti-fragile. I see her as someone who has learned over time to turn adversity into an advantage. is not an inborn talent. Rather, it's something nurtured and developed. How? Let's find out. Politics, whether in government or the office, is something that some people are really good at navigating.

Chief Change Officer

#406 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part Two

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Honestly, I've met a lot of people, for instance, in the education technology space where I was very active before COVID. I've spoken to many entrepreneurs who created new ventures and solutions. especially those focused on helping companies train and upskill their staff.

Chief Change Officer

#406 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part Two

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So I asked them, okay, you are building these tools, you are the champion of learning and development, but what about your own team? How do you invest in your own people? Most of the time, They either didn't expect the question or they said something like this. Oh, good point. We haven't really done much internally yet. We've been focused on the product and on serving clients.

Chief Change Officer

#406 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part Two

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So while it includes the classic three stages, you've also built in several other steps and actions. What are they? Can you walk us through those? How do they come together in your model?

Chief Change Officer

#406 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part Two

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That's where I start to see the gap. You talk the talk, selling solutions for upskilling, but you are not walking the walk inside your own organization. That kind of discrepancy always tells me something important about the founder or the culture.

Chief Change Officer

#406 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part Two

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Empathy isn't just for managers. It is a basic human skill. But honestly, we are wired to be self-centered. So even if a leader has a good degree of empathy, showing it in decisions is tough. Why? Because incentives drive behavior. I studied accounting and economics. I believe that. And right now, leaders and CEOs are paid based on numbers, such as revenue, growth rate, stock price.

Chief Change Officer

#406 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Richard Carson, consultant, strategist, and the guy who once walked away from a government job to join the consultants he just hired.

Chief Change Officer

#406 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part Two

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not how people feel if empathy culture or staff well-being were tied to the bonus you would see a big shift but until then there's a gap between what we say matters and what actually drives action i agree that people don't get paid by some measurement of their empathy but

Chief Change Officer

#406 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part Two

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And that's the end for our two-part series. If you thought change was about tools and templates, Richard just flipped that. It's about trust, timing, and knowing when to stop talking. If you are in the business of moving people, not just systems, his advice is worth returning to. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

Chief Change Officer

#406 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part Two

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#406 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part Two

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So when did you publish your book? The reason I asked about the timing is since the book came out, Have you had a chance to apply your new model? Perhaps have you received some of the recommendations from your clients? I'd love to hear how your new model played out in real life. Any results or experiences you can share?

Chief Change Officer

#406 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part Two

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Have you received any feedback so far from your clients on the model? I'm curious not just about what they say, but also your own reflections. After publishing the book and spending so much time developing everything, did anything surprise you once you started applying it? Any part of the model that worked differently than expected? Was something you've seen refined as you go?

Chief Change Officer

#406 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part Two

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In this two-part series, we talk about what happens when organizations try to change but forget about people Richard shares what most consultants get wrong, why empathy isn't optional, and how a terrible time tracking system inspired his now 39-step change model. It's practical, honest, and filled with stories you won't forget. Let's get started. So back to your model is people sustained.

Chief Change Officer

#406 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part Two

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I'm not talking about macro trends like AI or climate change, but more specifically, such as feedback from others and your own takeaways from using the model in practice. So after you published your book and started applying your own model, I'm curious, Have your clients or the people you work with given you any feedback on it? That's one part. The other part is about your own reflection.

Chief Change Officer

#406 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part Two

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When you actually applied the model in real cases, did anything shift for you? Maybe you gained new insights, or maybe it confirmed what you originally believed.

Chief Change Officer

#406 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part Two

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So COVID as a disease might be behind us, but how we handle health crisis, that's not in the past. We never know what might happen in the future. And the way we prepare or respond still really matters.

Chief Change Officer

#406 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part Two

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You've studied so many change models, and you are an expert in this space. But outside of your professional work, how have you applied those ideas in your own life? Or maybe help someone close to you, such as a friend, a family member, a colleague? Navigate change using what you know from organizational models.

Chief Change Officer

#406 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part Two

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I think that would be a great way to conclude this interview to show that you don't just study change. You live it.

Chief Change Officer

#86 From Diplomacy to Decarbonization: Irina Filippova’s Bold Journey into the Future of Energy

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Absolutely. You've answered the question with so much authenticity and truth in that. I like what you said about courage equals leadership. Leadership equals courage. Although some leaders mistake, misinterpret leadership. being courageous, meaning that they can just do whatever they want without thinking ahead of potential consequences on them and people around them.

Chief Change Officer

#86 From Diplomacy to Decarbonization: Irina Filippova’s Bold Journey into the Future of Energy

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So they are taking risk without being thoughtful about the consequences, the impact they create. That actually I call stability, not courageous leadership. I also like what you said about integrity. We've seen a lot of cases in business and politics in which leaders lack integrity in what they do and what they say.

Chief Change Officer

#86 From Diplomacy to Decarbonization: Irina Filippova’s Bold Journey into the Future of Energy

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Our world needs more leaders who are like you, who value as well as practice integrity in talk and in walk. Now, let's look at another C word, change. This podcast is called Chief Change Officer. Change is the central theme in all of our interviews.

Chief Change Officer

#86 From Diplomacy to Decarbonization: Irina Filippova’s Bold Journey into the Future of Energy

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I know at some point in your career life, you've been a consultant in change leadership and management, working with a lot of senior leaders, CEOs, and the teams. Tell us more about your experience there in helping others to build a vision for change and to execute on it? Sure.

Chief Change Officer

#86 From Diplomacy to Decarbonization: Irina Filippova’s Bold Journey into the Future of Energy

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But the corporate world couldn't contain her ambition for law. Marina transitioned from a comfortable corporate position during the credit crisis to spearhead new ventures, at some point becoming a change leadership consultant for CEOs and senior leaders. Then a few years back during COVID, she and her team were setting up a new venture.

Chief Change Officer

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So much so about the change you've experienced and also what you believe in change. Now, let's take a step further to talk about another kind of change that you're really passionate about, which is energy transition. As we speak, you and your team are building a new paradigm in energy transition. Tell us about the vision of you and your team

Chief Change Officer

#86 From Diplomacy to Decarbonization: Irina Filippova’s Bold Journey into the Future of Energy

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Whose problem you're trying to solve and what exactly is this problem? Inspire us, educate us. Like we're five years old. Tell us more about what you're trying to do at this moment and what's the impact you're trying to make.

Chief Change Officer

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As we speak today, they are crafting a new paradigm in the energy sector. The mission is to disrupt the transportation industry in the States with innovative energy solutions. Towards the end of our conversation, Irina will share invaluable advice for the younger generation who are passionate about creating global change for the greater good. Here comes Irina Filipov.

Chief Change Officer

#86 From Diplomacy to Decarbonization: Irina Filippova’s Bold Journey into the Future of Energy

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So basically, you are an all-in problem solver for me if I'm one of those transport companies. Is that correct?

Chief Change Officer

#86 From Diplomacy to Decarbonization: Irina Filippova’s Bold Journey into the Future of Energy

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Let me be a devil's advocate for the moment. If I were the CEO of a prospective client you're trying to pitch, you come to me with the full solution. One question, major question comes up in my mind would be if I rely on you to provide me with a full solution, what if something goes wrong? Basically, I expose myself to the counterparty risk of you that is not controlled in-house.

Chief Change Officer

#86 From Diplomacy to Decarbonization: Irina Filippova’s Bold Journey into the Future of Energy

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So what would you say? What would you respond if I ask you this question? How you managed the situation, the set of risk that I may expose myself to if I sign up for your service?

Chief Change Officer

#86 From Diplomacy to Decarbonization: Irina Filippova’s Bold Journey into the Future of Energy

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You are the chief operating officer in this venture. Every day, you deal with all sorts of questions about the deployment of technology, the implementation of the business model, the risk management for a client and for your business, all sorts of things. As an entrepreneur, what excites you to move forward? What actually energizes you to get past the challenges to stay focused?

Chief Change Officer

#86 From Diplomacy to Decarbonization: Irina Filippova’s Bold Journey into the Future of Energy

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Global change. This idea of creating global change, making impacts on others, building a better world for future generations, all those are grand purposes. A lot of younger generations, for example, MBA students, MBA graduates, they're all fascinated by playing a major role in changing the world for good. Now, you yourself, as you mentioned,

Chief Change Officer

#86 From Diplomacy to Decarbonization: Irina Filippova’s Bold Journey into the Future of Energy

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In your early part of your career, you were not satisfied with predefined career paths. You always wanted to do something different with your curiosity, with your self-starter mindset. So now that you look back as a seasoned leader, as a time-tested entrepreneur, as a change leader yourself,

Chief Change Officer

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If you are now in front of a hall of MBA graduates and students, what specific advice would you give to them in embarking on their career path?

Chief Change Officer

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Don't ever stop doing it. Irina, this is an audio-only podcast, so I don't see your face and you don't see mine. But rest assured, I keep nodding my head as you share a lot of your opinion on courageous leadership, on keeping integrity in what you do, what you say, what you deliver, and the career advice you just shared with the younger generations.

Chief Change Officer

#86 From Diplomacy to Decarbonization: Irina Filippova’s Bold Journey into the Future of Energy

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I can't agree with you more on a lot of those beliefs and opinions. I guess a large part is I myself personally, in the early part of my career, in the middle part and in the recent past, I've experienced a lot of those situations, issues, challenges, developed my own value system, come up with my own playbook, make my own laws of change. And we have so much in common to share and talk about.

Chief Change Officer

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So when you have another free moment, I would love to bring you back and host you here for another mind-blowing session. Thank you so much.

Chief Change Officer

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you

Chief Change Officer

#86 From Diplomacy to Decarbonization: Irina Filippova’s Bold Journey into the Future of Energy

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This episode tells the story of a self-starter who never settles, who is constantly in search of change, who combines curiosity and courage with a profound sense of integrity, now becoming a force for change. Irina Filipov, the COO and co-founder of an energy transition company backed by BlackRock. We met more than 20 years ago at Yale. We are MBA classmates.

Chief Change Officer

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that link up all these different transitions and changes through all your career life so far?

Chief Change Officer

#86 From Diplomacy to Decarbonization: Irina Filippova’s Bold Journey into the Future of Energy

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Let me summarize. You are a self-starter. You also have a strong sense of intellectual curiosity. These two forces are self-reinforcing. You are curious about new trends, new changes.

Chief Change Officer

#86 From Diplomacy to Decarbonization: Irina Filippova’s Bold Journey into the Future of Energy

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You're not afraid of breaking through barriers, try something new, something different to self-start, to get your curiosity fulfilled, but at the same time to move ahead of the game, or I would say to set up the rules of the game yourself. Yet, I think there's one missing piece. It's courage. It takes courage for you to venture out there, for you to self-start without knowing all the unknown.

Chief Change Officer

#86 From Diplomacy to Decarbonization: Irina Filippova’s Bold Journey into the Future of Energy

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Right from the start, her clear and persuasive way of speaking really caught my attention. It's not just that she is a well-trained diplomat, fluent in five languages. She possesses a clarity of thought and the ability to communicate her ideas with strong conviction. You will surely sense this conviction throughout our conversation.

Chief Change Officer

#86 From Diplomacy to Decarbonization: Irina Filippova’s Bold Journey into the Future of Energy

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So in your eyes, what is courage? What is courageous leadership, especially for a woman leader?

Chief Change Officer

#86 From Diplomacy to Decarbonization: Irina Filippova’s Bold Journey into the Future of Energy

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#86 From Diplomacy to Decarbonization: Irina Filippova’s Bold Journey into the Future of Energy

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Irina was born into a family led by a nuclear scientist in Russia. Yet her interest led her elsewhere, in particular to international relations and eventually a diplomat career in the States. Her journey didn't stop there. She wanted to pursue a business career, so she went to Yale and transitioned into the energy sector with BP in London.

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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Some people might ask if I launched the show opportunistically because of all the current disruptions, climate change, AI technology, workplace shifts, and so on. But no, I see change as evergreen. That's why I chose this theme and this title. As long as I'm healthy, and as long as technology give us the tools to connect,

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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I plan to keep this show going for a long time because change will never go out of style.

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Kevin Aikenberry didn't take the usual road into leadership.

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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Thank you. Thank you, Kevin, for your acknowledgement. Before we dive into the content of the book, I have one more question. Earlier, you mentioned that between you and your co-authors, you have around 20 books. I started imagining a portfolio of books or maybe even like a puzzle made of 20 pieces. This latest one, Flexible Leadership, includes elements from earlier works.

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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I'm curious, how does this one fit into the bigger picture? Is it like building on top of a foundation you've already laid? Or is it more like a complimentary piece that fills a gap?

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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I'm trying to visualize it because for someone who's already followed your work, your fans, your audience, your clients, your colleagues, when they see a new book from you, they'll probably wonder, how does this fit into everything else they've learned from you? So I'd love to hear your perspective.

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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I feel like I'm catching up with an old friend. I've heard your name many, many times from your colleague, Wayne Turmel, who joined me last year to talk about revolt leadership. Today, we are taking a different angle, which is flexible leadership. That is the title of your latest book,

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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Whenever a guest sends me the book, I always make sure to at least skim through it carefully. I read pretty fast, so while I might not promise to study every page in detail, I make sure to get a strong sense of the work. Now, looking at your book right here, there's one sentence from the introduction that really caught my eye. Let me read it out loud. Everything seems to be changing.

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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Yet, the most important things aren't changing at all. The words aren't changing at all are written in italics. So, my immediate question to you is, what are those most important things that aren't changing?

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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That's where we'll pause today. Kevin walked us through how growing up on a farm shaped his views on priorities, systems, and early career growth. In part two, we dig into the heart of flexible leadership. How intention, context, and personal flexors can change the way you lead, work, and connect. That's coming up next. See you there. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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I've got plenty of questions about flexibility, about being a flexor, and what all that really means in the workplace. But before we get into the book, I want to start with you. You're not just the author of this work and many books. You've taught leadership for over 30 years. Yet you studied agriculture originally.

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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So what really interests me is how you've led your own life, your own career journey. That's leadership too, right? And I think it's just as meaningful. So let's begin there. Tell us a bit about yourself, who you are, how your journey started, and then we'll dig deeper into your story and the book as we go.

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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What kind of farm was it? If you don't mind sharing a bit about those early childhood memories.

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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Is that why you chose to study agriculture in college? Were you dreaming of running a farm after graduation, at least back then?

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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You didn't pursue agriculture as a career, despite your degree and upbringing. But at a young age, you also hadn't yet stepped into leadership training or coaching. So what was driving you then as you were building your early career? You actually started in sales and marketing. What's the story behind that?

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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He started on a farm in Michigan, feeding hogs, pulling fertilizer, and learning the basics of discipline and responsibility before he ever set foot in a corporate office. Today, he's the founder of the Kevin Aikenberry Group. and one of the top leadership thinkers in the US.

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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You mentioned earlier how you raised animals and livestock to meet market need. Now with people, it is a completely different system. much more complex when it comes to psychology, politics, and behavior. We'll dive into that later when we talk about your book. But thinking back to your early career, you eventually built your own leadership practice.

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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And now, 30 years later, you've had huge success, multiple books, trainings, and a strong reputation. Your dream came true. But if you think back to the beginning, how did you land your very first client? Entrepreneurship is never easy, especially in leadership training where there's a lot of competition. I'm curious about those early days. How did you get started?

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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Let's move on to your book, Flexible Leadership. Last year, your colleague, Wayne Turmill, talked with me about remote leadership. And for all these reasons, the timing made sense. Although, as he explained, much of that work was actually developed even before COVID, and he couldn't have predicted how relevant it would become. Now today, you are focusing on flexible leadership.

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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Is this book a second or third evolution of something you've developed earlier? Can you walk us through the story behind this book? Why now and how it came to life?

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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He is the author of Remarkable Leadership, From Bot to Boss, The Long Distance Leader, The Long Distance Teammate, The Long Distance Team, and his newest book, Flexible Leadership. In this two-part series, we talk about flexible leadership,

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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When you are getting ready to publish a new book, Do you focus more on creating something evergreen? Or do you sometimes take a more opportunistic approach based on current trends? For example, right now everyone is talking about AI. But given how quickly AI technology evolves, writing a book about it might not be the smartest long-term move.

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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If someone publishes a book about AI today, it might feel timey, but could quickly become outdated. On the other hand, your work on leadership change and uncertainty, those are much more evergreen themes. So when you plan for a new book, do you think more in terms of Hey, this is my vision for the next three to five years. This is what my clients and audience need to be ready for.

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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Or do you sometimes let the urgency of the moment guide you?

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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why rigid styles backfire, how human nature stays the same even when the technology and the tools change, and what it really takes to lead when the old playbooks don't fit anymore. Let's jump right in.

Chief Change Officer

#331 Kevin Eikenberry: How Great Leaders Flex Without Losing Themselves — Part One

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I think so. Honestly, when I started my podcast about a year ago, I couldn't predict everything about the future. But one thing I knew for sure, 200%. Change, both as a concept and the action, is constant. We live with change, uncertainty, and disruption every day. That's actually why I feel you are a perfect fit for this show. Change itself is changing, and it never ends.

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

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Yeah, especially in Japan. Yes.

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

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Now, for the last question. Japan is famous for many things, many good things. Yet one of them is its aging population. That's a major factor when it comes to career changes, risk-taking, and mindset shifts. At the same time, recruiters are actively searching for talent. There's a demand, but with an aging workforce, how does that dynamic play out in Japan's recruitment market today?

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

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What are you seeing firsthand? How is this shaping hiring trends and opportunities?

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

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So now you are a coach in addition to being a headhunter.

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

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Right.

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into career transformation with Gary Berman.

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

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That's the end on this two-part series with Gary Berman. We've broken down the seven rules of career clarity and tackled the realities of Japan's talent market, where experienced professionals face ageism and companies struggle to adapt to change. The hiring landscape isn't evolving fast enough But that doesn't mean you have to stay stuck.

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

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Carissa says it's no longer about following the old playbook. It's about rewriting your own. When change is the law of life, make your own law of change.

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

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Yeah, like I said, a lot of us are conditioned by our environment. By the way, I studied accounting as my first major. So naturally, I became a CPA, Certified Public Accountant. But the truth is, I didn't enjoy the world. So I left the practice. We all start off following a certain path, whether it's because of societal expectations, family pressure, or financial goals.

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

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Not necessarily chasing success, but just meeting financial responsibilities, supporting a family, paying a mortgage, keeping life stable. And over time, it's easy to just stay in that job. I mean, if you're making six or even seven figures, it's a really, really good income. And for some people, the more they earn, the harder it becomes to leave. The comfort zone gets too comfortable.

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

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So even when they start thinking about change, actually making a move feels almost impossible.

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

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Tell us more about your seven rules of career clarity. Give us the full framework. How do these seven rules, seven steps, help people find real and sustainable clarity for their decision and direction in life?

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

Gary is a recruiter, career coach, and Japan talent market expert who has spent 25 years helping professionals navigate change. But his own journey wasn't a straight line. Gary hitchhiked across North America, dropped out of college two times, built a global business, and burned out before finally finding his true calling.

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

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Career isn't really a science or an art that you can formally study. Because, let's be honest, professors and researchers don't even change jobs themselves. Why would they study something like career change? If you try searching for academic papers on the subject, you won't find much. But what does exist is a wealth of skills, wisdom on managing, developing, and navigating careers.

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

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And these skills don't just come from career studies. They pull from leadership, economics, psychology, finance, and other areas of social science. Some of these insights are research-driven, some are teachable, and of course, they can be learned with the right guidance. That's why I see career intelligence

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

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which is understanding how to adapt and make strategic career moves becoming more and more relevant. It's also one of the reasons I started this podcast show in the very first place because most of us weren't taught how to navigate career change. especially not in a world where uncertainty is now the norm, not the exception.

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

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Gary, I remember you once mentioned that Japan is the hottest recruitment market in the world. Are you referring to recruiters trying to hire the best talent? Or are you talking about job applicants and career opportunities? What exactly makes Japan's recruitment market so competitive? I'd love to paint your brain on this.

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

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Mm, yep.

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

In this two-part series, we'll explore how he discovered his passion for coaching, the seven rules of career clarity, and the harsh realities of Japan's talent market, including ageism and the fear of change. Whether you're rethinking your career, hiring talent, or just wondering what's next, this series will change the way you see work. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

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It all comes down to mindset, not just technology. Sure, you can use LinkedIn or other platforms to identify and reach out to talent. But at the end of the day, especially in Asia, there is a very strong cultural layer that technology alone cannot bridge. As someone who's also Asian, I understand that certain values like trust, stability, and loyalty play a huge role in career decisions.

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

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Even if technology helps find the right person, it is the human connections that actually convince them to make a move. And that's where foreign firms often struggle They don't always grasp the nuances of why candidates hesitate, why they stay in their comfort zones, or how deep cultural values influence career decisions. That's where you come in. You are the bridge between recruiters and talent.

Chief Change Officer

#330 Gary Bremermann: Clarity Over Comfort—Career Change on Your Own Terms

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From what I see, you're not just matching jobs with candidates. You're hand-holding both sides and guiding them through the process. And it makes sense because you are naturally good at connecting with people, understanding different perspectives, and communicating across cultures.

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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You had a business back then, didn't you?

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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So this is it. You wanted change. You wanted a different lifestyle. So you took a step back. You exited financially from that business. Also brought in someone to help you figure out your next chapter. Before we get into your life in Japan and your calling now, I want to go back to something you mentioned financial success. You had it before, and you still have a strong drive for it.

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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And let's be honest, no one would say they don't like money. We all need it. If you ask me, would you want your podcast show to be financially successful? Of course, I would say yes. but not because I want to buy a Ferrari or a big house. For me, financial success means I can expand my impact, do more, provide stability for myself and for my partner. Money itself isn't a problem.

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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It's not something to feel guilty about. But at the same time, when chasing money becomes the sole focus, only focus, even in our own businesses, can be harmful. Now, looking back, your perspective on financial success has clearly evolved. You're still running a sustainable business. You're still making good money. But how has your relationship with money changed?

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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Before, it was about chasing the number. Now, you're still mindful of revenue and profit, but with a different mindset. What shifted for you? And how did that change actually happen?

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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Welcome to the show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into career transformation with Gary Berman.

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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Okay.

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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Gary and I have a mutual friend, also happens to be a podcast guest. And now, it's like a snowball effect. More and more people reaching out to be on the show. But I'm still very mindful about finding the right fit. And anyone listening to this episode will see that Gary is exactly that. I'll let him share his story, his ideas, his high sights, insights, and foresights.

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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Not sure if you saw this, But there was a survey. Some organizations published results about financial success across different generations. They asked baby boomers, Gen X, millennials, and Gen Z what they think it takes to be financially successful. And this went viral because of Gen Z's response. Their expectation on annual salary is at least $600,000 a year.

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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I am a Gen X, so when I saw that, I had to take a step back. And that's why so many people started debating it. Now, my question isn't about disputing the number itself. It's just a data point and honestly, I'm not sure how they even conducted the survey. I tend to question the analytics and assumptions behind these things.

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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But just assuming the number is reasonably representative does reflect something interesting. It seems like younger workers, especially those just starting out, have a huge appetite for financial success. Meanwhile, those who are more established, who've been through it, so to speak, tend to have a different perspective. Of course, when we are young, we all want to prove ourselves.

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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We want to make money, be successful. And you were no different. You once chased financial success. But now, you not only have that experience, you also help people figure out their own career paths. Whether they stay in a corporation or transition into entrepreneurship, both of which come with financial shifts.

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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So after everything you've learned, what does financial success actually mean to you now? And if you were advising younger people, knowing what you know now, what would you tell them about what really matters when it comes to money and success?

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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But first, Gary, tell us a bit about yourself. What's your journey been like? Give us all the juice and then we'll dive into different elements and unpack some of your wisdom and intelligence.

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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That's the end for today. We've explored Gary's unconventional journey from hitchhiking across North America to building a global business, burning out, and finally discovering his real and true calling as a career coach. But the real question is, how do you find your own career clarity today?

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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In Part 2, Gary breaks down his seven rules of career clarity and tackles the biggest hiring challenges in Japan, from ageism to the fear of change. Don't miss it! Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host.

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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You are in Tokyo now, one of the dream destinations for so many people, whether for travel, work, or even living. What brought you there? It might seem like a simple question, but I feel like there's a bigger story behind it. Let's trace back. Where are you originally from? And how did your journey lead you from one place to another, eventually landing you in Tokyo?

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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Before social media, before Instagram made picture-perfect moments so accessible, you were already living with the whole world in front of you. Even as a kid, you were constantly on the move. So can I say you were a world traveler from the start?

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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Before moving to Asia, you had quite a journey, especially in North America. Tell us about that. What was your experience like?

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

Gary is a recruiter, career coach, and Japan talent market expert who has spent 25 years helping professionals navigate change. But his own journey wasn't a straight line. Gary hitchhiked across North America, dropped out of college two times, built a global business, and burned out before finally finding his true calling.

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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Even within North America, you've experienced life across different states, different time zones, and completely different cultures. East goes West goes Midwest. You've seen it all. And then there's Canada. A mutual friend once mentioned that some of his friends wanted to move from the US to Canada, thinking it would be the same. And he said, no, Canada is not just another version of the US.

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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There are a lot of differences, a lot of nuances. You've learned that firsthand, didn't you? And not just from books, but from real life experience. You mentioned struggling in school at one point, but you did go back, right?

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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How did you support yourself financially along the way? What kind of work did you do to keep things moving while navigating your journey?

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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You really put yourself out there, fully immersed. No safety net. Would it be fair to say you were baptized by fire?

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

In this two-part series, we'll explore how he discovered his passion for coaching, the seven rules of career clarity, and the harsh realities of Japan's talent market, including ageism and the fear of change. Whether you're rethinking your career, hiring talent, or just wondering what's next, this series will change the way you see work. Let's get started. Gary, good afternoon to you.

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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You went back to school, finished, and in your twenties, you were still young, figuring things out. But as you mentioned, you didn't find your calling until your thirties, maybe even mid thirties. So what happened in those 10 years? Were you still searching for your real self? Were you trying different things proactively or just going with the flow?

Chief Change Officer

#329 Gary Bremermann: Hitchhikes, Burnouts, and Building a Career Worth Living

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Looking back, what was that phase of your life really about?

Chief Change Officer

#152 From Corporate Hustle to Happy Hustle: Rahshea Cardiff’s Guide to Workplace Joy – Part Two

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But without it, scalability becomes a challenge. How does Happy navigate this blend? How do you manage that balance between using technology to scale solutions while still preserving the essential human element that truly makes a difference?

Chief Change Officer

#152 From Corporate Hustle to Happy Hustle: Rahshea Cardiff’s Guide to Workplace Joy – Part Two

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In this two-part series, she shares her journey of resilience, why she joined Happy Companies, and how she's working to enhance employee experience using technology, but without losing the touch, the human touch. In our last episode, we focused on Risha's personal story and career transitions. Today, we'll explore her role at Happy Companies

Chief Change Officer

#152 From Corporate Hustle to Happy Hustle: Rahshea Cardiff’s Guide to Workplace Joy – Part Two

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Let's conclude our conversation with a quote that you shared with me last time. The quote is this. Maybe the journey isn't so much about becoming anything. Maybe it's about unbecoming everything that isn't really you. So you can be who you were meant to be in the first place. I love it because it captures the essence of personal growth and transformation.

Chief Change Officer

#152 From Corporate Hustle to Happy Hustle: Rahshea Cardiff’s Guide to Workplace Joy – Part Two

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Rishia, as someone who has walked this path of becoming and unbecoming, I'd love for you to share your reflections on this concept How can listeners, whether they are in a corporate setting, going through personal challenges, or simply feeling stuck, embrace becoming and unbecoming, quote unquote, to break free and start their own journey towards happiness?

Chief Change Officer

#152 From Corporate Hustle to Happy Hustle: Rahshea Cardiff’s Guide to Workplace Joy – Part Two

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What advice can you offer to help them begin to unlock fulfillment and real change in their lives?

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and her vision for transforming the workplace, balancing tech innovation with genuine care for people. Let's get started and find some happiness. Great, let's dive into happy companies. To kick things off, Can you give us an introduction to the firm? What exactly does HAPI focus on and what's your role within the firm?

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We only have one life and it's unpredictable. So make each day count. Absolutely. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

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Then from there, we'll explore the different aspects of the HAPI experience and what it really means to build a HAPI company.

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I'm thrilled to introduce Rishya Kardath, the VP of Partnerships at Happy Companies. Happy Companies is a venture focused on building happier, healthier workplaces. Rochelle brings over 20 years of experience in people management across major brands like Best Buy, Starbucks, and Microsoft. And she's deeply passionate about talent development and employee experience.

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Absolutely. I can see how your background makes you an incredible asset for a firm like Happy. When someone like you with over 20 years in corporate America joins the team, it's not just about the skills you bring. It's also about the invariable unique insights you've gained from first-hand lived experience.

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You've seen and navigated the pain points of the people function in large organizations, which positioned you perfectly to innovate solutions that can make a difference genuinely. So with all of that expertise and perspective,

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. who couldn't use a bit more happiness? This episode and the next dives deep into what it means to find joy and resilience in both work and life.

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As we all know, bureaucracy, corporate politics, and constant changes like layoffs and digital transformation can make it tough for employees to thrive and survive. Richier herself has navigated intense transitions. leaving a corporate role at Microsoft to pursue entrepreneurship, experiencing the loss of her mother, facing divorce, and raising her first child.

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I totally understand where you're coming from. On one side, it's exciting to see technology enabling people-first solutions like HAPI to reach and support so many lives. On the other hand, I must confess my skepticism about balancing the technology with the human touch. Solving people-centered challenges cannot solely rely on technology. When we do, we risk dehumanization.

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#80 Jennifer Selby Long on Growing Beyond Office Politics: Breaking Free from Toxic Cultures That Follow You - Part Two

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Could you elaborate on the last point you just made?

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#80 Jennifer Selby Long on Growing Beyond Office Politics: Breaking Free from Toxic Cultures That Follow You - Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is an old friend of our show, Jennifer Selby Long. Jennifer was with us in season three, episode seven and eight.

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If you thrive in office politics and it energizes you, a politically charged environment might suit you. But if that's not who you are, staying in such an environment could lead to frustration, burnout, disengagement, and lower productivity. For those feeling stuck, Reflect on whether you can adapt without compromising your values.

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How some people, when making career moves... leave a toxic boss or a harmful culture or an environment that is so vested in office politics only to find themselves in a similar situation at the new job. It's like running away from one problem only to land in another. that led us into a bordered discussion on toxic cultures and even the role office politics play in these dynamics.

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Ask yourself, does this place, does this environment truly support who I am and how I work best? If the answer is no, it might be time to move on to a place that aligns better with your strengths. It allows you to grow. Change isn't just about leaving. It's about finding the right fit to thrive.

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Thank you.

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#80 Jennifer Selby Long on Growing Beyond Office Politics: Breaking Free from Toxic Cultures That Follow You - Part Two

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We also touched on how some leaders or managers might unknowingly struggle with their personality disorders, which can contribute to these environments. Today, we are honing in on office politics specifically. Let's be real, who hasn't faced them? Whether it's subtle power struggles or outright maneuvering is something everyone has encountered.

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Yet, when I type office politics into Google, I don't find as much as I expected. Maybe the term isn't as trendy, but that doesn't mean the problem isn't real or common. People might call it power dynamics, workplace dynamics, but the underlying issue is universal. Do you think having a hybrid work model might actually help manage office politics? Or does it make things worse?

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On one hand, with less in-person interaction, people aren't constantly grouped together, which might reduce some of the tension that can build in close quarters. it creates a bit of balance. You're not always in the office, so those dynamics don't dominate your entire day. But on the other hand, there's the behind-the-scenes factor.

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Those who want to curry favor with the boss could still do it privately in ways others might not even notice. is a different kind of politicking that could still cause issues, just less visibly. I imagine researchers are already looking into this shift and its impact on workplace dynamics. What's your take on how hybrid or remote work influences office politics? Does it shift the balance?

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Or do you think human nature finds a way to keep the same patterns alive just in new formats?

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When I worked in corporate, I collaborated with people across different locations. Hong Kong, London, Singapore, New York, Australia, all over the place. Remote collaboration was the norm for me, even without smartphones at the time. While the system's worst move, politics was always present, whether locally or at the headquarters.

Chief Change Officer

#80 Jennifer Selby Long on Growing Beyond Office Politics: Breaking Free from Toxic Cultures That Follow You - Part Two

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In the last 30 years, Jennifer has been helping tech leaders navigate the waves of tech evolution, leading and managing organizational change. But leaders can't successfully drive organizational change without being a master of their own personal transformation. So last time, Jennifer and I looked into the natural process of personal change.

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Decisions made at headquarters, often driven by power dynamics, would ripple out and affect us in Asia Pacific Regional Office. You brought up the idea of some people being immune to politically charged environments. But I've also observed an other type, those who thrive in them. And here's where it gets frustrating.

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In many organizations, it's not the most skilled or high-performing employees who stay. often is those who navigate all this politics best. I've seen this firsthand. Imagine you have three people, A, B, and C. A and B are top performers, far better at their jobs than C. But somehow it's C who sticks around while A and B either leave for better opportunities or are squeezed out.

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Sometimes bosses prefer it that way because they don't want to feel threatened. Leaders may say they want to hire people smarter than them to push the organization forward But in reality, jealousy, ego, and sense of insecurity often get in the way. A boss might think, why should I keep someone who doesn't follow my orders, even if they are brilliant?

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Even when colleagues or clients sing the praises of these high performers, it can backfire. A boss who feels overshadowed might quietly engineer a way to push them out. The result? Talented, hardworking people leave feeling disillusioned and disengaged, while less capable colleagues remain. It's no wonder we hear terms like burnout or disengagement tossed around.

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But at its core, it comes down to a lack of respect and recognition for those who truly contribute. This cycle is what I have observed and even experienced myself. Those who stay aren't always the best performers. They are often just the best at playing the game. Jennifer, what's your perspective on this dynamic? How do we address this to create fairer and more effective workplaces?

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Office politics, as its core, isn't inherently good or bad. It is simply a reflection of human nature in group dynamics. When people come together to work towards a goal, there's always an underlying assumption that everyone is aligned. But in reality, goals often clash. When priorities conflict, tensions arise.

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people start using alternative methods to advance their own objectives and agenda at the expense of others. Sometimes, this is when things like back-stepping, bad-mouthing, or other manipulative behaviors emerge. It's not the politics itself that's the issue, but how it manifests. Pursuing individual agendas can erode trust and create a toxic environment. It's a cycle.

Chief Change Officer

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We also talked about how to manage self-doubt and self-sabotage. Jennifer, welcome back to Chief Change Officer. You are setting a new record for us. For one guest, you are going to have four episodes under your own name. Indeed. Thank you for having me. I so appreciate it, Vin. At the end of our last conversation, we talked about something that really resonates with everybody.

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One person's actions trigger an other's defense mechanism. And before you know it, the focus shifts from collaboration to competition. Understanding this dynamic is key to addressing it. The question becomes, how do we redirect these energies back towards shared goals and healthier workplace relationships?

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What were some of the things you enjoyed growing up in Hong Kong? Can you share more about activities or experiences that were particularly meaningful to you during that time?

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I remember that I actually took a photo with that piece and Vince, your husband, explained the significance of that dim sum container to me. Since Vince's family is in the restaurant business, he shared how dim sum plays a major role in Hong Kong's dining culture and overall culture.

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That really big dim sum container, especially made, as far as I know, was something you turned into a piece of art.

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#200 May Yeung: Art, Advocacy, and a Toddler Takeover in Hong Kong

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. I started this show in Hong Kong and I run the show in Hong Kong. I'm originally from Hong Kong, talking to guests from every corner of the world possible.

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May, tell us a bit more about your artwork. Are there any particular pieces that stand out to you? Ones that you find especially memorable and would like to share with us?

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This seems like the perfect time to talk more about art of my family. May, you've mentioned this charity a few times during our interview. is called Art of My Family, with my M-Y standing for your name, May Yeung. When I look at your website, you set various goals. Making art accessible, promoting social inclusion, fostering cultural exchange, strengthening mental wellness,

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So don't go away.

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and championing environmental protection. These are all very important agendas. Looking back over the past six years, I'm curious, how would you assess your progress? Of course, we've reached a stage in life where we don't just judge our achievements based on report cards. And you've mentioned that you used to be a perfectionist, but now have a different perspective.

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But if you have to evaluate your progress over the last six years, how would you rate yourself? And as a follow-up, looking forward, what else do you want to achieve? Are there areas where you feel you haven't done enough or where you believe you can do a better job? So it's a two-part question. First, assessing your past progress.

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And second, looking ahead and learning from the past to improve in the future.

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Mei is a teaching artist. What is a teaching artist, you may wonder? And how does she develop her artistic journey? But before we do a deep dive, let us start with May's history. May, give us an overview of your history, your education, your life experiences, just to give us some perspective. Then we will explore different elements of your journey in the later part of our show.

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Speaking of mental wellness or well-being, it's important to acknowledge that whether in Hong Kong or elsewhere in the world, The aftermath of COVID, economic uncertainty, and other global challenges have created a lot of stress. These aren't just isolated events. They are interconnected factors that bring about significant changes. In my view, embracing change can be a growth opportunity.

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but also brings mental pressure and negativity, which can impact everyone's wellbeing. I agree with you that wellness is crucial for everyone from the elderly who have their own challenges to children who are the pillars of our future society. Often the mental issues we face as adults can be traced back to childhood.

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Something that happened in the family or during those formative years shapes how we see the world, how we behave, our mindset, and even our life and career choices. That's why I really admire your focus on intervening early in children's lives. The impact you're making goes beyond what can be measured financially. It's truly invaluable. For that, I applaud you.

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Now, I would like to wrap up our interview with a question that touches on the many roles you play. You run a charity, you are a mother raising a child, you take care of your own health, and you are a teaching artist with a wide range of interests. How do you balance all these different roles and responsibilities? And more importantly, what is your life mission now and going forward?

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The future is uncertain, the person is here, and the past is behind us. But when you set a goal for yourself, it's clear that you are fully committed and don't back out. So what would you say is your life mission?

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That's wonderful. May, I'm really looking forward to seeing more of your artwork at attending your exhibitions. As I mentioned, next time when your son picks up more words and expands his vocabulary, we'll have another interview. We'll do it entirely on video. We'll let him join in. That would be super awesome.

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#200 May Yeung: Art, Advocacy, and a Toddler Takeover in Hong Kong

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You went to the University of Chicago to study visual art, along with another interest of yours, political science. I happen to know a lot of people from Hong Kong and China, including myself, who attempt the University of Chicago to study economics, business, mathematics, or physics. Yet, even at your young age, you purposely chose art as your major. Tell us more about the why.

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Why at that age you decided to pursue art as your major? Why you wanted to get serious about this field of study rather than just keeping it as a hobby or as an interest?

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You've mentioned to me before that music has had a significant influence on your journey as an artist. Can you share more about how music plays a role in your art world?

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In your career so far, you've explored various areas of art, like music, sculpture, and painting. But you've also spent a good amount of time in the corporate world, including investment banking and working for a tech company in the CSR or ESG space.

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Yet so far, I haven't interviewed any guests from right here in Hong Kong. Today, that changes. I'm excited to bring a local guest to the studio, May Yeung, founder of the charity Art of My Family, a teaching artist, a cancer survivor, a mother to a really cute boy, and the wife of another Vince, who happens to be a good friend of mine. May has experienced many life changes over the years.

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What were your thoughts back then about gaining this so-called standard commercial and business experience while still pursuing your artistic ambitions?

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Speaking of perseverance, I can't help but ask about a significant aspect of your personal life. You shared in other media interviews that you were diagnosed with cancer at a young age and battled the illness for a considerable time. Could you share how this experience transformed or impacted you? Did it make you a more empathetic or artistic person? Or perhaps it had a different effect?

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How does this health and personal experience shape your journey? I think our listeners would really appreciate hearing about the life lessons you've learned from this challenging time.

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A near-death experience gives you a new perspective on life. While that experience is full of suffering, and we don't try to glorify it, it can also lead to personal growth. You came out of it as a better person, someone who embraces life more fully and finds greater happiness. And speaking of life, I know that in recent years, you started a new chapter.

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You got married to another Vince, who's also a friend of mine from the University of Chicago. And you have a son, a new life that you are nurturing. How is modelhood treating you so far? How has this experience, along with other major live events, impacted your perspective as an artist and in helping your communities?

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who this person is because look at his eyebrows like checking me out what is this what am I trying to do so that's artisanal and he just smiled so back to our original question about a new chapter in your life about a new life that you're nurturing about motherhood

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She's determined to use the power of art in her own way to change lives and create an environmentally sustainable, mentally healthy, and socially inclusive society here in Hong Kong. Hong Kong is not just about business, finance and money. May has chosen a different path to do well and to do good. And as a side note, we've got our youngest guest ever, May's 11-month-old son joining us on the show.

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less is stressed upon them unexpectedly and without clear reasoning, logic, or alternatives as many experienced during COVID. However, if the conditions for change are managed well, involving and consulting those affected throughout the process, people can and will embrace change. Don't you agree, Steve?

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So speaking of innovation and change and how it's sometimes resisted or embraced, you and I previously discussed an interesting case involving a bank in the Philippines. You mentioned that a particular segment of the staff there, the more mature, often overlooked group, actually contributed significantly to innovation efforts after you engaged with them.

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I wanted to bring this up because there's a common belief in the tech world that older employees might not be as tech savvy as their younger counterparts. which can lead to ageism in the workplace. From your experience, can you share how you've seen mature employees contribute to innovation? And what are your thoughts on overcoming this legacy mindset that sometimes holds back valuable talent?

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Just how inspiring is he? Stay tuned for the next 30 minutes and you'll find out. Good morning, Steve.

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Why do you think the younger people don't know how to ask relevant or right questions as opposed to the older members of the team?

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They really bring a hands-on perspective to the table. These employees have been in the trenches, experiencing the pain points of the workflows long before technology was introduced. They've lived through the problems, which means they are uniquely positioned to see where technology can solve issues or where processes might actually benefit from a more human touch.

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This blend of human insight and technology leads to a more stimulus integration. What I would call a true artificial intelligence where it's not just tech, but a smart combination of machine and human working together.

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AI is always a big topic. But let's switch gears to talk about your next big thing. You've mentioned to me that you're working on something really, really interesting and meaningful. Groundbreaking, if I can use this word. Tell us more.

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That sounds exciting. I can't wait to see the progress. It's bound to have a huge and tremendous economic and social impact. When you're ready, let me know and I'll send in my resume, okay? Now, you mentioned you are deeply involved in both executing and investing in this project. This brings me to another critical issue many entrepreneurs face, mental wellness.

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Could you share your observations or experiences with your investees on how they manage their mental wellness? How do you support them through the ups and downs?

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Some investors might be less understanding when it comes to situations like this, but you seem more open and empathetic. Perhaps that's because of your diverse experiences in different roles and capacities.

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There's a common notion among entrepreneurs that discussing mental health issues openly with investors, co-founders, or even team members might shake their confidence in your leadership or influence their investment decisions. From your diverse perspective as an entrepreneur, as an investor, as an innovator in big corporations, how do you handle this?

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How do you address the stigma or reservations that some might have about mental health in a high-pressure environment of startups?

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There's a really important point to emphasize. Mental health issues are not exclusive to entrepreneurs. They affect anyone, from entrepreneurs to employees to CEOs. I've personally faced mental health challenges three times myself, with two of those occurring during my time in corporate roles. It's something many of us might encounter regardless of our positions.

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Absolutely. Before we wrap up this conversation on mental health, in particular concerning entrepreneurs, what advice would you give to them or even to those who want to support other entrepreneurs with their mental wellness? What are some possible solutions you see? Perhaps some solutions might be tech-driven. while others could be more about creating supportive communities or programs.

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How can we help entrepreneurs not just move forward, but also regain their confidence to become more resilient, allowing them to fully leverage their brilliance, confidence, resilience, and brilliance, a perfect formula for entrepreneurs.

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Steve, earlier in our conversation, you highlighted the critical role of learning in your career transitions and how it's been a sustainable advantage for you. Reflecting on your passion for learning through reading, particularly on complex topics such as AI. Could you share how you believe this habit of deep, focused reading has impacted your mental wellness?

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Additionally, do you think there are specific ways that engaging with such intellectually stimulating materials can help others manage their mental health?

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That's a wrap. Thank you so much, Steve. I'll surely get you back here very soon, as long as you have time.

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Let's take a moment to recap the key insights from our conversation with Steve. Here are eight crucial takeaways. Number one, learning is the key to unlocking transformation, not just for organizations, also for personal career development. Number two, embracing learning means embracing failure. The real value lies in what we learn from those failures. Number three,

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Having an outsider's perspective can be incredibly valuable, offering a fresh, untainted view and adding a new dimension to problem solving. Number four, change is always met with resistance. The trick to overcoming this opposition is by transforming a no and all into a know, K-N-O-W, knowledge, helping people understand the why and how of change.

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Number five, empower people to own the change process. This approach helps eliminate their fear and can drive change more effectively and extensively. Number six, mature and experienced employees bring significant advantages in the era of AI.

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Their first-hand experience with workflow pain points before technology intervention places them in a unique position to integrate technology seamlessly and enhance processes with a human touch. Number seven, pay attention to mental wellness, whether it's for employees or entrepreneurs. Everyone can be affected by mental health challenges in one way or another.

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Number eight, maintain a balanced reading portfolio. It's essential for staying informed, curious, and effective in continuous learning. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#119 Steve Monaghan: From Pilot to AI Investor and Banking Trailblazer – Thriving Through Career Change

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Wow, it's fascinating to hear how your career journey has evolved, particularly how you've navigated from aviation to technology, software, and hardware, then deeper into various sectors of finance and entrepreneurship across different regions and countries. What's the core motivation that keeps you moving forward, especially in taking on vicious projects?

Chief Change Officer

#119 Steve Monaghan: From Pilot to AI Investor and Banking Trailblazer – Thriving Through Career Change

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I first met Steve back around 2015 or 2016 in Hong Kong when he was the regional director at AIA, one of the leading insurance groups in the Asia Pacific. He was running a unique health technology accelerator at the time. Later, I invited him to be a venture coach and judge for the University of Chicago's first-ever Global Neo-Venture Challenge, hosted right here in Hong Kong.

Chief Change Officer

#119 Steve Monaghan: From Pilot to AI Investor and Banking Trailblazer – Thriving Through Career Change

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Your personal website kicks off with a bold statement, learning the foundation for sustainable competitive advantage. He also openly mentioned, I've succeeded and I've failed always learning. Could you share with us some candid insights about times when things didn't go as planned?

Chief Change Officer

#119 Steve Monaghan: From Pilot to AI Investor and Banking Trailblazer – Thriving Through Career Change

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Specifically, could you tell us about what you've learned from these setbacks and failures in your career and innovation projects?

Chief Change Officer

#119 Steve Monaghan: From Pilot to AI Investor and Banking Trailblazer – Thriving Through Career Change

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You've really lived and worked all over the globe. Singapore, India, Saudi Arabia, Hong Kong, Silicon Valley, and now Japan. Everywhere you've been, you've been the outsider. How do you think this foreigner identity has shaped your approach as a leader driving change?

Chief Change Officer

#119 Steve Monaghan: From Pilot to AI Investor and Banking Trailblazer – Thriving Through Career Change

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It's really insightful to hear how you've managed change and overcome resistance in your roles. Could you elaborate on how you've tackled the challenge of people's natural fear of change in your work? In particular, when introducing new technologies or business models, how have you transformed a simple no? into know, knowledge and acceptance. And what role did learning play in this process?

Chief Change Officer

#119 Steve Monaghan: From Pilot to AI Investor and Banking Trailblazer – Thriving Through Career Change

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Since then, he's moved to Tokyo. We've called up a few times, both in Japan and back in Hong Kong. To me, Steve embodies authenticity. He is consistently successful and resilient in the face of setbacks, largely because, I believe, he is always true to himself. He walks the walk and talks the talk. A real leader and an incredibly inspiring speaker. How could I not invite him to the podcast then?

Chief Change Officer

#119 Steve Monaghan: From Pilot to AI Investor and Banking Trailblazer – Thriving Through Career Change

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'll be chatting with Steve Monaghan,

Chief Change Officer

#119 Steve Monaghan: From Pilot to AI Investor and Banking Trailblazer – Thriving Through Career Change

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The motto of a podcast is make your laws of change. Steve has shared his own laws of change on his website, which I'll link in the show notes to those interested. He outlines three core principles. that change is always met with opposition. that implementing change requires a forceful effort. And third, that the larger the organization, the greater the force needed to enact change.

Chief Change Officer

#119 Steve Monaghan: From Pilot to AI Investor and Banking Trailblazer – Thriving Through Career Change

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These principles aren't just relevant to organizational shifts. They apply to personal transformations too, such as career changes, something many of us are facing today. Take the first principle. Change is always opposed. If you are in a stable job with a decent income, why risk what you have for the conservancy of change? The second principle states that change requires force.

Chief Change Officer

#119 Steve Monaghan: From Pilot to AI Investor and Banking Trailblazer – Thriving Through Career Change

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Whether it's due to layoffs or needing to relocate, the push and pull factors must be compelling enough to drive the change. Finally, similar to large organizations needing greater force to change, the higher you are in your career, the more you have a stake, and the stronger the impetus needed to push you through a transition. People generally resist change.

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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You've managed complex operations involving stakeholders with different interests, agendas, and goals that sometimes, and especially in the unusual and intense time period, conflict with collective objectives. Now at Yale, you're engaging with a wide range of groups. What is your approach to managing these multi-stickholder relationships?

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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As you're well aware, this is crucial not only to the success of your role, but also to the impact you aim to achieve.

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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I'll save the specifics for you to discover in this episode. Among many roles, George was pivotal in managing Connecticut's COVID-19 health response. For those interested in his contribution during that critical period, check out the YouTube link in the show notes where he hosted the press conference. Without further ado, let's dive in.

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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A cliche question at this point would be, oh, Josh, what's your typical day at Yale? Well, I believe there isn't any typical day. So let me flip the question. Tell us about what are some of the things that you try to help with the Yale communities day in and day out?

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Given your role in building and developing the innovation ecosystem at Yale, you interact with faculty, scholars, I presume a lot of MBA students from the Yale School of Management would come to you for guidance. Considering the challenges, career challenges in particular, that MBA students face today,

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Whether they are exploring corporate roles or interested in entrepreneurship, and with the tough funding market for new founders, what career advice would you offer them?

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Behavior-related advice? What book would you recommend to those who are interested in entrepreneurship or already in entrepreneurship?

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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This is the last question of the day. And I want you to give me your honest answer. You've had a very successful corporate career. Then you joined a startup as a professional CEO, eventually took them into acquisition. Then you joined the public administration to help them deal with once in a lifetime crisis in human history.

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Now, you are working at one of the most famous universities in the world to build and drive an innovation ecosystem. So what else is in your career life that you may want to do in your future? What may be the missing piece? Would it be perhaps at some point you will become a founder To found company, to build it, to scale it on your own?

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Great. Great news for everyone in the Yale Innovation Community. I really wish we had someone like you around when we were at the school. Josh, thank you so much for your time. Please come back and tell us more about the founder stories and the innovations activities happening at Yale, Yale Haven in Connecticut. Also, upcoming Yale Innovation Summit.

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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For those of you who are unfamiliar with this event, this is an annual event usually happening in May and this year will be May 29th and 30th with Chelsea Clinton as the keynote speaker. Just to clarify, this is not a paid ad. My podcast doesn't do paid promotions at this stage. It's definitely an event worth checking out, especially if you are close to the Yale campus.

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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I hope to make it there myself next year. And Josh, come back to the podcast whenever you have time. You're always welcome here.

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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I spoke with our classmate Irina in an earlier episode. She's founded and is now leading a new venture in the energy transition sector. Like you, she has made several significant career transitions since MBA. I find each of them fascinating. When I asked her about the common themes in her career moves, She said two things, self-starter and curiosity.

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Before we dive deeper into each phase of your career, what have been your main drivers for exploring and trying new things over the past 20 years?

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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You've got a strong background in astrology from your education at Yale, then as astrology consultant at IBM, diving deep into business strategies with solid logic. But when it comes to something more personal, such as career decisions, career moves, it seems like even for analytical minds like ours, there's a need to balance logic with psychology.

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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If I have to use an economic term, it is about finding equilibrium between the two. Have you encountered any mental hurdles while trying to decide on a Korean booth? Or in figuring out if a decision is right or worthwhile? If you have, how do you navigate the psychological ups and downs in your career decisions?

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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I'd like to explore more about your move from IBM to a startup. Early in your career, after completing your MBA at Yale, you started as a consultant at IBM. That was amazing. Remember that was 2002 after 911. A lot of us were challenged to get a full-time job upon graduation. Yet you got a full-time job offer from IBM. After about a decade with IBM, you move to a venture.

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Where, if I remember correctly, you were the 16th employee. What was going through your mind when you made the switch from a well-established firm to a startup that you needed to help grow? What was your gut feeling about the transition?

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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It's a key part of the Yale's innovation ecosystem, collaborating with faculty, students, entrepreneurs, and local governments to drive all sorts of innovation activities. Yale Ventures, for example, helps scientists and scholars turn their inventions into real products, the commercialization process, so to speak.

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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I bet you must have experienced a lot of cultural shock in this transition.

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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You joined the public sector during a very interesting time from 2019 to 2022. You were responsible for Connecticut's COVID health response efforts. Can you share with us some of your insights from your experience during this period of time?

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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A system in raising money, build teams, and support students in developing the innovation ideas. And a little personal note, George and I are both MBA alum from the Yale School of Management. We both graduated in year 2002. He chose a path in consulting. I went into finance. George's career has been nothing short of remarkable, filled with impact and challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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The COVID-19 pandemic was truly a once in a lifetime event that went beyond anything we've learned from traditional business or management textbooks. Reflecting on that unusual and intense period, what were your main challenges?

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Using your consultant mindset and entrepreneurial experience, how did you address or mitigate these challenges as you learned and adapted to find better and more effective solutions for all?

Chief Change Officer

#118 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we're talking with Josh Chabal, the managing director of Yale Ventures. You've likely heard of Yale University, but what about Yale Ventures?

Chief Change Officer

#316 John Gates: Stop Leaving Money on the Table

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Given your knowledge of the challenges job seekers typically face, can you walk us through your process for helping them? Do you start with a mindset change or focus on the overall goal first and work backward step by step?

Chief Change Officer

#316 John Gates: Stop Leaving Money on the Table

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest, John Gates, is someone who can help you get the most out of your compensation packet, especially when you are making a career switch or transition.

Chief Change Officer

#316 John Gates: Stop Leaving Money on the Table

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So my question is, with all the emotion tied up in these discussions, how do we break free from focusing on old numbers and truly maximize our return when making a career move? Let's find out together. John, good morning. Welcome to our show. How did you end up where you are today? What were the key transformation points?

Chief Change Officer

#316 John Gates: Stop Leaving Money on the Table

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I recall you once described yourself as a prosecutor in the past, but now you see yourself as a defense attorney. Similar to a lawyer, a defense attorney, your fees are tied to the work done and the outcome, like a performance or incentive fee. The difference is the legal profession has strict rules and penalties for misconduct, for criminal behavior.

Chief Change Officer

#316 John Gates: Stop Leaving Money on the Table

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Give us a quick overview of your personal and career journey, both the past and the present.

Chief Change Officer

#316 John Gates: Stop Leaving Money on the Table

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Yet in your profession, in your area, there aren't government regulations or penalties. Basically, only self-regulated codes of conduct and ethical standards. My question for you is, how do you assure your clients that your recommendations are in the best interests and not driven by your economic incentives?

Chief Change Officer

#316 John Gates: Stop Leaving Money on the Table

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For those who may not be able to afford your services, may buy your book or listen to this episode for your insights. Can you give us a couple of pieces of actionable advice? Something they can use to help themselves ease the pressure and open up new horizons of thoughts before seeking professional help.

Chief Change Officer

#316 John Gates: Stop Leaving Money on the Table

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Thank you for coming, John. Congratulations on your new book. The title is ACT. your wage. I hope you enjoyed our interview.

Chief Change Officer

#316 John Gates: Stop Leaving Money on the Table

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you liked what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#316 John Gates: Stop Leaving Money on the Table

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You are a salary coach, which I see as an evergreen profession. Whether the market is up or down, you help people maximize their compensation packages. Many entrepreneurs, coaches, and tech founders start a business because they have faced the same problem. Learn the hard way and then turn it into a product or service.

Chief Change Officer

#316 John Gates: Stop Leaving Money on the Table

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How has your own experience shaped your journey into salary strategy and negotiation?

Chief Change Officer

#316 John Gates: Stop Leaving Money on the Table

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When prepping for this interview, I skimmed through his book, It reminded me of my business school days studying negotiation. The concepts really aligned. Like in a negotiation, focusing on multiple elements instead of just zeroing in on one single number. But here's the challenge. Salary negotiations feel so much more personal.

Chief Change Officer

#316 John Gates: Stop Leaving Money on the Table

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Over the years, you've probably come across a lot of negotiation advice that you disagree with. What are some of the worst pieces of advice you've seen out there?

Chief Change Officer

#316 John Gates: Stop Leaving Money on the Table

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Unlike business deals where you can stay strategic and detached, salary talks bring up fear, emotion, and anxiety. If you are a CFO or CEO negotiating a deal, it's different. You have a stake. but is not as personal as negotiating your own salary.

Chief Change Officer

#315 Jason Bloomfield: From Survival Mode to Systems Change

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. I got approached by book authors, leadership coaches, business consultants, and venture founders quite often.

Chief Change Officer

#315 Jason Bloomfield: From Survival Mode to Systems Change

caused by his parents' separation in the U.S. to his multiple roles across different long-standing organizations, resolving conflicts, bridging gaps, and aligning interests through M&A integration, tech disruption, and cultural alignment. You'll hear stories and examples straight from Jason's firsthand experiences. Get ready to hear how Jason has navigated change and made it work.

Chief Change Officer

#315 Jason Bloomfield: From Survival Mode to Systems Change

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In your experience working in large organizations with such a long history and deep-rooted traditions, how do you introduce modern concepts and actions and get buy-in? how do you turn things around in an environment where values policies and even mindsets so entrenched how do you successfully blend modernism into that kind of setting

Chief Change Officer

#315 Jason Bloomfield: From Survival Mode to Systems Change

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Among all these organizations you've been with so far, in financial services, in telecom, your current role is with Ericsson in the UK. Tell us about your current mandate.

Chief Change Officer

#315 Jason Bloomfield: From Survival Mode to Systems Change

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Good morning, Jason. Welcome to our show.

Chief Change Officer

#315 Jason Bloomfield: From Survival Mode to Systems Change

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You are in the transformation function. It seems obvious that AI is one of the biggest forces driving change in human organizations today. What is your take on the strategy and approach leaders, people, workers should be adopting when it comes to AI?

Chief Change Officer

#315 Jason Bloomfield: From Survival Mode to Systems Change

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Yes, football versus soccer.

Chief Change Officer

#315 Jason Bloomfield: From Survival Mode to Systems Change

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While you are now based in the UK... Tell us a bit about your experience growing up in New York. What was it like for you as a kid? And what kind of things were you into back then?

Chief Change Officer

#315 Jason Bloomfield: From Survival Mode to Systems Change

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Thank you so much for your time, Jason.

Chief Change Officer

#315 Jason Bloomfield: From Survival Mode to Systems Change

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#315 Jason Bloomfield: From Survival Mode to Systems Change

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So in your early years, you experienced what I call a major disruption beyond your control. While you mentioned that, in hindsight, you can appreciate how it helped you become more resilient to change and gave you a deeper appreciation for life. I'm curious, how did you manage to help yourself and your siblings settle down and rebuild everything from the ground up?

Chief Change Officer

#315 Jason Bloomfield: From Survival Mode to Systems Change

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They come with business purposes and goals, eager to share their ideas on books, practices, and venture ideas. I talk to each and every one of them taking it as an opportunity to make a new friend, get educated, and be inspired. But in this episode, the guest Jason Bloomfield came to me all of the blue one day. He isn't a book author, leadership coach, business consultant, or venture founder.

Chief Change Officer

#315 Jason Bloomfield: From Survival Mode to Systems Change

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You've mentioned the word resilience quite a bit. First, in relation to your personal life and your parents' divorce. And second, regarding the M&A integration you were involved in. Now, with corporate restructuring, M&As, and costs cutting all around us, I'm curious, looking back at your early days, where you were driving M&As, integration, and navigating conflicts,

Chief Change Officer

#315 Jason Bloomfield: From Survival Mode to Systems Change

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How has those early challenges helped you become more successful or perhaps, as you put it, more resilient in guiding your team, your organization through its own transformation?

Chief Change Officer

#315 Jason Bloomfield: From Survival Mode to Systems Change

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He is a change maker in organizational transformation. When I asked Jason why he wanted to be on my show, his response was, it's about giving back. Vince, you're also giving back by setting up and running the show. I'm just joining you in the effort. Take this episode as a love letter from Jason to you on how to navigate personal and organizational change. From the disruption in his life,

Chief Change Officer

#73 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part Two

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I can tell you exactly why I connected with that question. Because I experienced it myself. Honestly, I think 80-90% of my thoughts on any given day being negative. It's just the way our minds work sometimes, especially when uncertainty is evolved. When we think about the future, we tend to naturally default to worst-case scenarios, even when, more often than not,

Chief Change Officer

#73 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Erin Deal, founder and CEO of Improve It, a company that uses improv to help teams grow and thrive. Like me, she's also a top podcast host.

Chief Change Officer

#73 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part Two

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things turn out far less catastrophic than we imagined. Yet, those negative thoughts can feel overwhelming, very loud, disruptive, and hard to ignore. Personally, I have to deal with that noise every single day. I hear it, but I remind myself to focus, to move forward despite the chatted, That's why I really value your advice.

Chief Change Officer

#73 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part Two

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It's practical and it's something I know I can apply right away to keep that noise in check.

Chief Change Officer

#73 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part Two

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Just a couple of weeks ago, I released two episodes with a guest who wrote a book called Generosity Wins. He's a seasoned CEO who talks about how actions and mindset of generosity not only enrich others, but also create greater success in life and career.

Chief Change Officer

#73 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part Two

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One powerful idea he shared was how a single generous action creates a ripple effect, encouraging others to replicate it and, in turn, making the world a little better. Of course, we can't measure the full impact. There's no way to track every ripple. But the concept is the same as what you are seeing. When we experience joy or positivity in our lives, we have the chance to pass it on.

Chief Change Officer

#73 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part Two

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In his example, even something as simple as a smile can spark change. Smiling at a stranger, a colleague, or a friend might seem trivial, but it can create a moment of positivity that ripples outward. is a reminder that small actions often have the biggest impact.

Chief Change Officer

#73 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part Two

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Not so much the workshops you facilitate or the lessons you teach, but your personal journey. How you've dealt with, navigated, and grown from failure over time. If you like, feel free to share specific stories and give us an overview of your journey with failure. Either way works.

Chief Change Officer

#73 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part Two

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I haven't read your book yet, but failure as a concept resonates deeply. Just before this, I was interviewing another guest and we talked about transitions, not just career changes, but life changing events. In her case, two years ago, she survived a severe car accident that left her paralyzed.

Chief Change Officer

#73 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part Two

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From a young age, Erin dreamed of becoming a talk show host. Why did she choose that path? And how did her journey lead her to combine improv and business? I told Erin, you are in the business of joy. But beyond joy, we also talked about failure. Erin calls herself a fail-flu-lancer. a blend of failure and influence.

Chief Change Officer

#73 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part Two

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She shared how she endured the physical and mental pain, learned to walk again, rebuilt her coaching business, and even started a podcast within just two years. Coincidentally, your experiences also highlight how resilience and failure intertwine. I call this lifting human intelligence. That is the ability to reflect deeply on who we are and transform setbacks into meaningful insights.

Chief Change Officer

#73 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part Two

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And while these three words like fill, learn, grow may sound simple on the surface. Developing that level of clarity through real experience is far from easy. What stands out is not just the lesson itself, but the process of sustaining pain, making sense of it, and transforming it into a systematic approach others can understand and apply.

Chief Change Officer

#73 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part Two

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The pain itself is real and unfortunate, but it often opens doors to growth. As I told my other guest, failure, if managed well, can become one of the greatest opportunities for transformation. Would you agree?

Chief Change Officer

#73 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part Two

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Sure. I think that's a great way to wipe things up. I always discourage hard selling on this show. But this isn't about that. It's about sharing the lessons you've distilled from your real, sometimes painful, life experiences. Lessons that listeners can take away and apply right now. So as a closing thought, could you share a method or approach from your work that anyone can try?

Chief Change Officer

#73 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part Two

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something practical, educational, not just inspirational, that could help listeners facing their own dilemmas, whether they're in career transition, dealing with personal challenges, or simply feeling stuck. What's one step or exercise they could use to figure themselves out and take that first step forward?

Chief Change Officer

#73 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part Two

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I would say definitely over 50. So should be between 80 to 90%.

Chief Change Officer

#73 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part Two

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This two-part series dives into her unique approach to joy, failure, growth, and learning. No more waiting. Let's get started. I understand one of your key workshops focuses on failure, and you even coined the term Bellfluencers, a blend of failure and influencers. I'd love to dive into this topic, but from a personal perspective, could you share your own experiences with failure?

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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For everyday people, not just leaders or influencers, what advice would you give on cultivating a generosity mindset in daily life? How can we become more conscious of generosity and move beyond the mindset to make it a habit? So it shows up consistently in our actions and behaviors. Any practical tips for building this habit?

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. How many people do you know who actually walk into a public restroom and leave it cleaner than they found it? I do. And so does the wife of our guest.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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Yes, I actually add to that. I think it's really beneficial to use a notebook and pen instead of typing on your phone. Studies show that the act of writing by hand helps with analyzing, filtering, and clarifying thoughts, which can really benefit mental health. So I assume you're suggesting actual writing, not just typing on a laptop or phone?

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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Yes. And about using the phone, I actually go a step further, jotting things down on my phone, but eventually I transfer it into a physical notebook. I know there's tech now that lets you write digitally and it saves to a notebook file. But I still enjoy the actual human art of handwriting. Writing really makes a difference.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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It helps me feel better, connected, which is important for mental wellness, especially in a world that can feel isolating. Even if we're not meeting face to face, just connecting and talking is rewarding. For instance, podcasting has had a huge positive impact on my own mental wellness. It feels good to connect like this, even if it's virtual.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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So when it comes to practicing generosity, it doesn't have to be complicated. Unlike business, where we calculate ROI and financial budgets, the benefits of generosity, just reaching out, connecting, can be immediate and tangible.

Chief Change Officer

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Thank you. Thank you. Well, in fact, I'll send you my resume because if you are ever building a generosity empire, I would love to join your journey. Listening to you has brought back memories from my early career. I worked with senior leaders who were generous in their own way, nurturing and helping me without expecting anything in return. That generosity built meaningful connections beyond work.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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Even after we all moved on, we stay in touch. Those relationships are rare and precious. And they've made all the difference in my journey.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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We made a two-part series for you. Yesterday, in Part 1, our last episode, we looked into Monty's personal experiences, his definition of generosity, and why he believes so strongly in practicing generosity as a habit. Today, Part 2, we'll explore what isn't generosity. why practicing generosity can be challenging in today's world, and how to nurture generosity-centered mindset.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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If you are still skeptical about how generosity can lead to success, join us for this conversation. We'd love for you to be part of the discussion. Let's get started. I have a couple of follow-up questions. You shared why generosity is important, your definition, what it means, and some real examples from people you've worked with.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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But on the flip side, I'd like to hear about what isn't generosity. In your career, you've worked with a lot of leaders and teams. What are some behaviors or attitudes you've seen so far that you would say are the complete opposite of generosity Maybe things that shrug you as really rude. I think understanding the flip side would be helpful for listeners.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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giving them a clearer perspective on what generosity isn't. It might even help them recognize, identify, and avoid those less generous behaviors in their own actions or interactions. Could you share some of those not so generous examples?

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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If you could stand on top of a mountain and shout to the world, telling everyone how essential it is, not just as a concept, but as a life approach that can truly change your life, make you happier, and bring more fulfillment, then why aren't more people embracing it? In your experience, why do you think we've lost the art of generosity? I have my own theory, but I'd love to hear yours.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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What's gone wrong in a society that some of us have either forgotten about it or never developed the skill at all?

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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Like me, she does it because she wants to leave it better for the next person. So who is our guest today? Is Monty Wood, author of the book called Generosity Wins and the former CEO of Opus Agency, a creative branding partner for some of the world's most influential brands.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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Looking at it from human nature. Greed is one of our seven deadly sins, as they say. We even got a movie called Seventh. Brad Pitt, wasn't it? While there's a lot that could be said about that, I would rather focus on how our present reality has impacted generosity. First off, Social media has changed how we see and interact with the world.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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It affects how we conduct ourselves, often emphasizing superficial connections over genuine connections. Mainstream media adds an outer layer, often with their own agenda. pushing certain narratives that can cloud our judgment, especially around elections or other high-stick events. Independent journalism is wailing, and we're left with these biased perspectives shaping the way we think.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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Then there's this trend of idolizing successful tech founders, especially among younger leaders. They see people raising millions, building billion-dollar companies, and assume they need to emulate every behavior to reach that level. But as you pointed out, even Steve Jobs though he had a clear purpose, wasn't known for his kindness in the workplace.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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It's as if some tech founders believe they have to be ruthless to be successful, ignoring that generosity and empathy are just as essential to leadership and success. And this brings us to a big misconception with technology. Connectivity does not equal connection. We think that having friends or followers means we are connected, in quotation. But that's not true.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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Real connections are much deeper and more meaningful. People text family members in the same house rather than having a face-to-face conversation. In offices too, I hear stories from friends who say, back in the day, we just turned to the person next to us to chat. Now, even when two people are seated beside each other, one would send a message instead of speaking.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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All this technology has left us disconnected as human beings. And without real connection, the idea of giving generously without expecting anything in return becomes wearer. This disconnect is a big factor across all cultures and why generosity is harder to come by today.

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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It seems to me that you are an optimist. You are hopeful about the impact of generosity in the world. Despite the challenges we've discussed, you genuinely and passionately want to help people become more generous. You share insights, you write, you publish books to get the message out there. Would you say that's accurate? That you believe we can still build a more generous society?

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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Monty has worked directly with legends like Mike Benioff of Salesforce, Andy Gross of Intel, Steve Jobs, John Chambers of Cisco, and Andy Jassy of Amazon. From these leaders, his own mentors, and his mother, Monty has learned what generosity truly means, why it matters and how to apply it to life and career to become more successful, happier and healthier. Curious to find out more?

Chief Change Officer

#242 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part Two

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One where leaders and individuals alike can grow to be more generous, happier, and ultimately more successful?

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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The first thing that comes to my mind is if I'm being generous and generosity helps me succeed, doesn't that make it selfish? Does generosity leading to success mean there's some hidden self-interest? Is that why you're asking? Yes. If you ask me, selfish usually carries a negative connotation. When we call someone selfish, it's typically not a good thing.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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So when you mentioned that genuine generosity helps you become more successful, is that selfish? I would say no. I wouldn't use the word selfish. I would call it self-awareness. If I believe in the principle that generosity wins, it becomes part of my attitude and behavior. I'm following my own path based on principles I truly believe in.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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From the outside, people might think I'm focused on what I want, but it's more about knowing who I am and what I stand for. Maybe some could call that selfish, but I would just call it being clear and committed to my values.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. How many people do you know who actually walk into a public restroom and leave it cleaner than they found it? I do. And so does the wife of our guest.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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I remember seeing the term generosity ROI in your book, meaning generosity's return on investment. We live in a capitalist world, and in business, we are always focused on KPI's financial metrics. But generosity is tricky to quantify. Like you said, don't expect a direct return. So it doesn't fit the typical model of ROI.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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We made a two-part series for you. In today's episode, We'll dive into Monty's personal experiences, his definition of generosity, and why he believes so strongly in practicing generosity as a habit. Tomorrow, we'll explore what isn't generous, why practicing generosity can be difficult in today's world, and how to nurture a generosity-centered mindset.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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And if we try to measure or track the cost and return of generosity, it starts to feel less like true generosity. But let's assume we want to monitor it. How do we make sense of this ROI? What does it really mean in the context of generosity?

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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You've mentioned before, when defining generosity, that there's a lot of misconceptions about it in the media. That's one thing. But tell us, why do you think there's so much misunderstanding about generosity in general? What are some of the myths you would like to debunk in this interview? Share with us.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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If you are still skeptical about how generosity can lead to success, join us for this conversation. We'd love for you to be part of the discussion. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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Just now, Monty shared his personal experiences, his definition of generosity, and why he believes so strongly in practicing generosity as a habit. Tomorrow, in part two, we'll explore what isn't generous. Why practicing generosity can be challenging in today's world and how to nurture a generosity-centered mindset. Come back for part two. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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Yes, I agree with you. In fact, when it comes to leadership, I always describe myself in two ways. First is about walking the walk and talking the talk. Second, I believe in servant leadership. I've been lucky in my corporate career to have worked for bosses who embraced this kind of leadership. They helped me grow, become a better leader, and they made me shine.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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But in my mind, I don't necessarily call this generosity. I still think of it as an exchange of value. As a subordinate, I help achieve business goals, and in return, they support me, hire me, and take pride in recognizing my talents. When I perform well, it makes them look good too. It's not just kindness, it's mutually beneficial and drives business results.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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So I guess what I'm saying is, I see it as a leadership style, but not necessarily generosity. Now, I'd love to hear your thoughts. What does generosity mean in the context of leadership, especially in the lessons you've learned from your mentor?

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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Like me, she does it because she wants to leave it better for the next person. So who is our guest today? Is Monty Wood, author of the book called Generosity Wins and the former CEO of Opus Agency, a creative branding partner for some of the world's most influential brands.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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As you were sharing, you brought back some memories of mine from my corporate days. 15, 20 years ago, maybe? A lot has changed since then. We had the credit crisis, then the rise of social media with the iPhone and everything that came with it. Then came COVID and now AI. But it's not just about the technology. It's also about mindset shifts and generational gap.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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By that, I don't just mean the typical you're older, I'm younger kind of gap. It's more than that. Millennials, Gen Z, for example, they've become more vocal. Some of them may be too vocal. Then we got the even younger generation coming in. On the other hand, you've got Gen X, baby boomers. There's so much going on in the world that it feels like we've become less connected in a lot of ways.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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Technology allows us to connect like how you and I are talking right now. We wouldn't have met if this tech wasn't democratized like it is today. I mean, even a phone call like this used to be very expensive. So yes, we are now connected. But I call this connectivity more than true connection. Because real connection takes time, patience, and effort.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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For example, I always insist on a pre-call with my podcast guests. I want to get to know them and I want them to know me so that when we record, our conversation is more natural. I dedicated that time 30 or even 45 minutes. because I genuinely care about making a good show. Now in that case, is that generosity?

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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I'm not expecting anything in return, but at the same time, I know it helps me achieve a certain result. So would you say that is true generosity? Or is it more of a behavior with a specific goal in mind?

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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Of course, you want to make an impact. From that angle, I guess you could say it's a form of generosity because I don't really expect anything in return from the listeners. But I do care about that whatever I say or you say or any guest on the show says has some kind of impact. Even if it's just a minute, a one-minute impact for someone who listens, that would already make me really happy.

Chief Change Officer

#241 Monte Wood on Generosity: The Most Underrated Career Cheat Code — Part One

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Monty has worked directly with legends like Mark Benioff of Salesforce, Andy Gross of Intel, Steve Jobs, John Chambers of Cisco, and Andy Jassy of Amazon. From these leaders, his own mentors, and his mother, Monty has learned what generosity truly means, why it matters, and how to apply it to life and career to become more successful, happier, and healthier. Curious to find out more?

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm thrilled to be speaking with my Chicago MBA classmate, Gargan Sandhu.

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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I really appreciate that before our interview. Despite his busy schedule, Gargan made it a point to thoroughly understand the scope of my show. He asked for examples and even took the time to write down his career insights to share with me ahead of time.

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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When it comes to the customers you've worked with, I'm curious about something specific. What's the persona of your ideal customer?

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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How do you position your company? Is it mainly a software development company?

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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In your industry, there's a new type of stakeholder known as finfluencers, financial influencers. The younger generation often turns to them for money management advice via social media. It's easily accessible, and they seem to crave all kinds of information.

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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But there are growing concerns about potential conflicts of interest and the creditability of these influencers, especially since they may lack formal financial education. Given this backdrop and considering your goal to help people become more knowledgeable about managing their money, which also positively impacts their lives, What's your take on this trend?

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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How do you engage with these influencers, perhaps promoting a product? And how do you assist your clients in becoming better decision makers and effectively multiplying their money, as your tagline on LinkedIn suggests?

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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You've become financially independent and then decided to start this company to help others achieve the same. This makes me wonder, what does financial independence mean to you? I'm very eager to hear about your personal wealth philosophy. The term financial independence is heavily used online. In fact, often misused or reduced to just a buzzword.

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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As we near the end of our interview, I think is the perfect time to ask this question. You made a conscious decision to leave a tech company in your 40s and dive into entrepreneurship. Yet today, many people in their 30s, 40s, or even 50s are facing layoffs and feel compelled to change their career paths. They are also concerned about ageism in the workplace.

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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Could you share some practical advice for these folks?

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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Yes, it makes sense. But in recruitment, there's always a focus on cost. HR and CEOs might lean towards hiring younger individuals because they offer lower salaries, even though the older candidates might be more experienced and competent. Sometimes they come up with their own justification that younger people are simply more creative or tech-savvy. This happens quite often in tech ventures.

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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But I'm interested in your genuine perspective and practices. How do you interpret and apply this concept in your life?

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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Given that you run a tech venture as the CEO, would you consider hiring someone in their 40s? who's been pushed out of corporate life and is looking to start a new chapter by building a tech venture with you?

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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Gorgon. I've really enjoyed our conversation today. I know we've gone over time, but you have so much valuable insight to share. I didn't want to cut you off. I truly appreciate your time and all that you've shared with us.

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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Like many of my previous guests, Gargan is an immigrant who moved from India to the States about 20 years ago. With a mechanical engineering background, he began his journey as a grad student. About two years ago, he founded a FinTech company aimed at helping Gen Y and Z achieve financial independence.

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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Speaking of financial independence, I've always been skeptical of it, seeing it more as a myth or a marketing buzzword. In true Chicago Bulls style, Gargant and I will be exchanging viewpoints on this topic, agreeing to disagree while appreciating and understanding our different perspectives in a sensible manner. On top of that, Gargant will share invaluable insights on managing career paths,

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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Let me share my take on financial independence if you allow me. Interestingly, I don't actually believe in it. And my reasoning isn't about the math. It's about human nature and psychology. We humans have desires at every stage of our lives. Whether it's craving the latest iPhone when we are younger or simply needing a functional phone as we grow older, our desires shape our financial behavior.

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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I believe as long as we have desires, we can never be truly financially independent because our decisions are influenced by our pursuit of these desires and the financial means to fulfill them. Personally, I'm not just about numbers. I consider myself a philosopher at heart. despite studying finance and accounting and spending a decade in financial institutions helping people manage money.

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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I'm fundamentally a humanist. Life is not only short, it is unpredictable. We might plan to achieve certain things by a certain age, but there's no guarantee we'll have the time. So for me, it's about focusing on the present, like building a good show here. Yes, I need to make and spend money to sustain it.

Chief Change Officer

#185 Gagan Sandhu: From Mechanical Engineer to Money Engineer—Mastering Career Pivots & Financial Freedom — Part Two

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But I do stress over really long-term financial plans because the future is, after all, uncertain. To me, managing personal wealth is less about math. and more about one's life philosophy, psychology, and the ability to tune out the noise and adapt to changes around us. That's my perspective on financial independence.

Chief Change Officer

#108 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part Two

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One thing I add to that is when you are practicing, this mindset shift happens. and making those small changes or steps forward. Make it visible. Grab an actual notebook, not on the computer, but a real paper notebook and pen or even a board you can put up on the wall. Write down each small win. check it off, and create a visual reminder that says, I did it.

Chief Change Officer

#108 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part Two

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That simple action of writing, seeing those check marks, and having a visual cue of your progress can really inform that sense of accomplishment. I think it's a powerful way to feel and see your growth over time.

Chief Change Officer

#108 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part Two

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100%.

Chief Change Officer

#108 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part Two

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In part one, Athena shares her experience with Lyme disease, a condition that remains poorly understood but has profoundly impacted her health. She'll talk about how she caught it, what she's endured, and the fight to survive. Today in part two, Asina will share how she not only survived, but found ways to thrive, rebuild her support system, and grow her career once again.

Chief Change Officer

#108 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part Two

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Jodie Foster once said, all you need to make a movie is pen, paper, and confidence. Despite her success as an actor, she didn't step into directing until later in her career, initially thinking she needed to master every technical detail. But as she shared in her master class, she realized that those three essentials, pen, paper, and confidence, were all she needed to start.

Chief Change Officer

#108 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part Two

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It's such a powerful reminder how simplicity and self-belief can be the true foundation for creating something meaningful. And sustainable. That is beautiful. Of course, I know all the scripts were crafted by a copywriter. But it felt so authentic. I believe she was speaking directly from her heart and her experience. It's so powerful.

Chief Change Officer

#108 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part Two

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So I'll leave you with that and share it with my listeners too. Pen, paper, that's power in them. A journal as well, by the way. And of course, a bit of confidence. Thank you so much, Athena. Thank you for your time and sharing.

Chief Change Officer

#108 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part Two

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I really resonate with what you said about being our biggest advocate, especially in tough times. We hear a lot about IQ and EQ, emotional quotient, emotional intelligence. But there's another measure, adversity quotient or AQ, which seems less talked about yet. So crucial. I think we are all starting to see how important it really is. Your experience is a powerful example of this.

Chief Change Officer

#108 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part Two

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Physical pain is intense and medications might help here and there. maybe make sleep easier. But that's only part of it. It's the mental resilience that really keeps us going, especially in those moments when you are alone, in pain, facing it all. What stands out from what you've just shared is how you found ways to mentally change your focus. even on the small things to help you stay grounded.

Chief Change Officer

#108 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part Two

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It seems like that's been your best defense and maybe even your offense

Chief Change Officer

#108 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part Two

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You've talked about how you help yourself normalize the situation so that life and work could go on. You kept earning, kept things moving, especially with those high medical costs. Even with insurance, it still adds up. But beyond that, you mentioned the importance of building a support system with mentors, coaches, and others, which I think is crucial.

Chief Change Officer

#108 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part Two

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Instead, we dive into her extraordinary journey of resilience. At the peak of her real estate career, Feeling invincible and unstoppable, Athena's life took unexpected turn. Strange health issues appeared, and she was eventually diagnosed with Lyme disease, a condition that would change everything. For the past seven years,

Chief Change Officer

#108 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part Two

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Can you share more about how you started building that from scratch and how you went about finding the right people, those who really became the perfect fit for your journey? Eventually, it seems like it grew into a really strong support system. One that not only provided you the help you needed, but also gave you a true sense of community.

Chief Change Officer

#108 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm talking to Athena Bronson, a real estate agent from Denver, Colorado. No, we are not talking about real estate.

Chief Change Officer

#108 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part Two

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Athena has lived in chronic pain, relying on plasma transfusions four days each month just to keep going. Her life has revolved around battling this disease, something she never imagined facing. As she says, if life didn't give us adversity and challenges. This story is too powerful and real for just one episode.

Chief Change Officer

#108 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part Two

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You shared so much today about building a support system, rewiring your mindset, and finding ways to move forward is incredibly helpful for those out there who might be in the middle of a life transition, just like you were. They don't have a support system yet. They're still feeling stuck. And they are struggling with that rewiring process. What would you say to them?

Chief Change Officer

#108 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part Two

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What advice or encouragement would you offer to help them take that next step towards doing better, especially after listening to this episode?

Chief Change Officer

#302 Holly Bond: From Mom on a Mission to Franchise Founder

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How did they help propel you forward and sustain you all the way to the finish line?

Chief Change Officer

#302 Holly Bond: From Mom on a Mission to Franchise Founder

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is our first ever from Canada, Holly Bond. I used to live in Calgary, Alberta and Toronto, Ontario in Canada.

Chief Change Officer

#302 Holly Bond: From Mom on a Mission to Franchise Founder

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She has mastered turning change to her advantage, making her a natural fit for my show. After two months of emails back and forth, I finally convinced her to come on board. We did a 70-minute interview, which I've decided to break down into two parts.

Chief Change Officer

#302 Holly Bond: From Mom on a Mission to Franchise Founder

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In part one, this episode, we'll hear Holly's story of being a mother of two and taking 17 years to earn her college degree, all while starting and building a fitness business that turned into a successful franchise. In part two, Holly will share why she entered the headhunting business and her human-first approach to serving not only her corporate clients, but also the candidates themselves.

Chief Change Officer

#302 Holly Bond: From Mom on a Mission to Franchise Founder

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As you describe your experience, It sounds almost magical. You landed that TV interview and the next day you received over a hundred emails. Now, while that's absolutely amazing, I'm really curious about the flip side. Looking back, what was the most challenging moment for you along this journey?

Chief Change Officer

#302 Holly Bond: From Mom on a Mission to Franchise Founder

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In this part one of our interview, you just heard Holly's story of being a mother of two and taking 17 years to earn her college degree, all while starting and building a fitness business that turned into a successful franchise.

Chief Change Officer

#302 Holly Bond: From Mom on a Mission to Franchise Founder

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In the next episode, the part two of our interview, Holly will share why she entered the headhunting business and her human first approach to serving not only her corporate clients, but also the candidates themselves. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

Chief Change Officer

#302 Holly Bond: From Mom on a Mission to Franchise Founder

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#302 Holly Bond: From Mom on a Mission to Franchise Founder

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Talking to Holly really brings back memories of my adolescence and college days in Canada. Holly is special in my eyes. Why? She's now the president of a head hunting firm I'll be honest, in my career so far, I haven't worked well with headhunters. I've mostly landed jobs through networking. But something on Holly's LinkedIn profile and her company's website caught my eye.

Chief Change Officer

#302 Holly Bond: From Mom on a Mission to Franchise Founder

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Today, we all talk about purpose and making an impact. But when you were younger, in the 80s and 90s, it was all about making money and raising a family. You know, the American dream or in your case, the Canadian dream, owning a house and all that. Looking back at your career, have you identified any particular drivers or motivations behind every move you've made so far?

Chief Change Officer

#302 Holly Bond: From Mom on a Mission to Franchise Founder

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It said, we are a talent management and development firm with unshakable belief that change is a good thing. I was skeptical at first. It could just be empty words. But then I dug deeper and discovered that Holly had built a very successful franchise business from the ground up before moving into the headhunting business. From that moment, I knew Holly truly believes that change is a good thing.

Chief Change Officer

#302 Holly Bond: From Mom on a Mission to Franchise Founder

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You must be really proud of yourself, of what you've achieved with Bulldog Interactive Fitness. Can you share with us the humble beginnings of starting this business? I remember you mentioned that it all began with the idea of a gym. Tell us about your journey, not just the successes, but also the ups and downs, the challenges. More importantly, how did you learn from those challenges?

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

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For that one day, it really does feel like a playground. But of course, once you leave, reality hits again. There's life, work, stress. But the way you put it, what if the whole world is Disneyland? That mindset alone already opens things up. Even before finding clarity, if we see life as a playground, it changes everything. We are more open, more alive. You also talk about live pills.

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

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Is that a product, an app? Would love to hear more about what it actually looks like or how it works.

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

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Let's get into it. Yeah, I think this is a great segue into your consulting work. You have this method called SEG, simple, easy, growth. I believe growth is the ultimate outcome of change. That's the goal. But let's be honest, change is scary. It feels risky. And it's often anything but easy. Yet you say growth can actually be simple and easy. Why is that and how? For people listening or watching,

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Sandy Gogart, former slam dunk champion, longtime corporate leader, and founder of SEG, which stands for Simple Easy Girls.

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

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I can tell you this. I think I'm right in the middle of that process. 2025 has already brought a lot of changes for me. And things are still moving. It's all unfolding as I go.

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

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So far, we've talked a lot about your career, leadership, everything on the corporate side, but one key part of life is our personal journey. You are now running two ventures. You have two sons who are grown, and you are starting to focus more on yourself. For many people, that kind of life transition can be tough. Some call this the empty nest phase.

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

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I actually interviewed an other guest, a mother who shared her own story of navigating that chapter. Now, I'd love to hear yours. You're a father, your kids have grown up and moved on, and it's just you and your wife at home. How have you embraced this new stage of life? And how have you blended that shift with the same mindset as you've applied to your work and leadership?

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

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Maybe they're stuck right now. How can they grow in the simplest, easiest way?

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

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Wow, that was part philosophical, part rational, but also deeply sentimental. You walked me through that thought process so smoothly in just five to eight minutes. But I can tell that what you and your wife have gone through runs much deeper. All the conversations, the reflection, there's so much care behind it.

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

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What really struck me is how it's not just about love for each other, but also self-love. There's emotion, affection, and clarity all working together. It's thoughtful, it's grounded. And honestly, if we were to put it in a corporate setting, I call that true walk-the-walk, talk-the-talk leadership.

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

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There's so much we've unpacked today. If we go full circle back to some of the early points you raised, such as career climbing, marriage, what society calls success, it all comes down to conditioning. We are all conditioned no matter where we are from. You said you were raised Catholic. I wasn't. But still, I was taught girls aren't good at math. And I believed it.

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

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That's why I gave up my dream of becoming a medical doctor. Science needs mathematics. And I thought I couldn't do it. So I chose the arts and the humanities. economics, accounting, but later in business school, I majored in finance and I realized I'm very good at math. So yes, conditioning runs deep.

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

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We are taught that staying married equals success, but we don't know what goes behind closed doors. Sometimes that perfect marriage is just a facade and that applies to so many parts of life. What you are saying about unlearning really hit me. We have to unlearn all rules. We connect with ourselves. That might sound selfish, but it's not.

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

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When we truly care for ourselves, we show up better for others. And that's how we make the world just a bit closer to Disneyland.

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

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And that's the end for our two-part series. Sandy's story reminds us that growth isn't about more, it's about less. Less pressure, less noise, less pretending. The real work is peeling back what's not new until what's left finally is. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

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This

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

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You mentioned clarity and how it's so important, especially for leaders and CEOs. but you also brought up interference, which is the enemy of clarity. Now, speaking of that, you would have another venture called Life Peels. You told me it has grown so fast, you actually had to slow it down a bit. Tell us more about what Life Peels is all about and how it connects with SEG

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

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How do you blend those two approaches together?

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

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In this two-part series, Sandy opens up about chasing titles, burning out getting lost and realizing he has climbed the wrong mountain. We talk about ego, clarity, and the live pills method, a way of becoming more of yourself by stripping things away, not adding more on. It's personal, it's short, it's philosophical, but it's also practical. This episode might just change how you measure success.

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

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Yes.

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

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Yeah.

Chief Change Officer

#301 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part Two

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You mentioned the Earth being like Disneyland. I love that idea. I love that image. I actually started thinking, when was the last time I went to Disneyland? I think it was Tokyo. And I must say, Tokyo Disneyland is honestly better than the ones in the US. Every time I'm there, I feel pure joy. trying out the food, walking around, being silly, checking out souvenirs.

Chief Change Officer

#138 Career Moves That Pay: John Gates on Unlocking Your True Salary Potential

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Given your knowledge of the challenges job seekers typically face, can you walk us through your process for helping them? Do you start with a mindset change or focus on the overall goal first and work backward step by step?

Chief Change Officer

#138 Career Moves That Pay: John Gates on Unlocking Your True Salary Potential

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So my question is, with all the emotion tied up in these discussions, how do we break free from focusing on old numbers and truly maximize our return when making a career move? Let's find out together. John, good morning. Welcome to our show. How did you end up where you are today? What were the key transformation points?

Chief Change Officer

#138 Career Moves That Pay: John Gates on Unlocking Your True Salary Potential

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest, John Gates, is someone who can help you get the most out of your compensation packet, especially when you are making a career switch or transition.

Chief Change Officer

#138 Career Moves That Pay: John Gates on Unlocking Your True Salary Potential

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Give us a quick overview of your personal and career journey, both the past and the present.

Chief Change Officer

#138 Career Moves That Pay: John Gates on Unlocking Your True Salary Potential

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I recall you once described yourself as a prosecutor in the past, but now you see yourself as a defense attorney. Similar to a lawyer, a defense attorney, your fees are tied to the work done and the outcome, like a performance or incentive fee. The difference is the legal profession has strict rules and penalties for misconduct, for criminal behavior.

Chief Change Officer

#138 Career Moves That Pay: John Gates on Unlocking Your True Salary Potential

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Yet in your profession, in your area, there aren't government regulations or penalties. Basically, only self-regulated codes of conduct and ethical standards. My question for you is, how do you assure your clients that your recommendations are in the best interests and not driven by your economic incentives?

Chief Change Officer

#138 Career Moves That Pay: John Gates on Unlocking Your True Salary Potential

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For those who may not be able to afford your services, may buy your book or listen to this episode for your insights. Can you give us a couple of pieces of actionable advice? Something they can use to help themselves ease the pressure and open up new horizons of thoughts before seeking professional help.

Chief Change Officer

#138 Career Moves That Pay: John Gates on Unlocking Your True Salary Potential

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Thank you for coming, John. Congratulations on your new book. The title is At Your Wage. I hope you enjoyed our interview.

Chief Change Officer

#138 Career Moves That Pay: John Gates on Unlocking Your True Salary Potential

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#138 Career Moves That Pay: John Gates on Unlocking Your True Salary Potential

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You are a salary coach, which I see as an evergreen profession. Whether the market is up or down, you help people maximize their compensation packages. Many entrepreneurs, coaches, and tech founders start a business because they have faced the same problem. Learn the hard way and then turn it into a product or service.

Chief Change Officer

#138 Career Moves That Pay: John Gates on Unlocking Your True Salary Potential

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How has your own experience shaped your journey into salary strategy and negotiation?

Chief Change Officer

#138 Career Moves That Pay: John Gates on Unlocking Your True Salary Potential

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When prepping for this interview, I skimmed through his book. It reminded me of my business school days studying negotiation. The concepts really aligned. Like in a negotiation, focusing on multiple elements instead of just zeroing in on one single number. But here's the challenge. Salary negotiations feel so much more personal.

Chief Change Officer

#138 Career Moves That Pay: John Gates on Unlocking Your True Salary Potential

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Over the years, you've probably come across a lot of negotiation advice that you disagree with. What are some of the worst pieces of advice you've seen out there?

Chief Change Officer

#138 Career Moves That Pay: John Gates on Unlocking Your True Salary Potential

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Unlike business deals where you can stay strategic and detached, salary talks bring up fear, emotion, and anxiety. If you are a CFO or CEO negotiating a deal, it's different. You have a stake. but is not as personal as negotiating your own salary.

Chief Change Officer

#368 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part One

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So exactly how much have you raised over the last 10 years or so?

Chief Change Officer

#368 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part One

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Wow, that's 150 million Hong Kong. That is about how much in U.S., like 20?

Chief Change Officer

#368 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part One

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Yeah, and that is a big chunk of money you've raised over the years.

Chief Change Officer

#368 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part One

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I was wondering, while raising money isn't your main focus, when you do receive a significant amount of money, how do you use it? How do you allocate those funds to create the most impact?

Chief Change Officer

#368 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part One

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And it's safe to say he sees life and business leadership as a journey too. We'll be talking for about an hour, split into two parts. In this episode, part one, we'll dive into the genesis and evolution of 24-hour race. What started as a casual suggestion on a rainy day turned into a life-changing journey for a teenager. The world across England raised five figures in U.S.

Chief Change Officer

#368 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part One

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So basically, you allocate the funds across different NGOs. All of them are involved in fighting against human trafficking. Is that how you turn the money into real action?

Chief Change Officer

#368 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#368 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part One

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In the last 30 minutes, Chris shared his journey from a humble teenage charity event to leading a global movement valued at over 20 million US dollar. His experiences, whether trekking through desks and scaling mountains, have shaped his understanding of business leadership and team building.

Chief Change Officer

#368 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part One

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In the next episode, Releasing Tomorrow, we'll dive deeper into Chris' leadership approach, drawing parallels between leading expeditions and managing business teams. He will show how lessons learned from life or death situations in the wilderness can translate into powerful leadership strategies in the corporate world.

Chief Change Officer

#368 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part One

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Chris also shares heartfelt advice for young ambitious talents on how to balance life goals, family expectations, and career direction. See you. thank you so much for joining us today if you like what you heard don't forget subscribe to our show leave us top rated reviews check out our website and follow me on social media i'm vince chen your ambitious human host until next time take care

Chief Change Officer

#368 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part One

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dollar and sparked an eight-figure U.S. dollar global movement. Tomorrow's episode, part two, will focus on Chris' approach to leadership and team building, drawing parallels between leading an expedition and managing a business team. This episode highlights how lessons learned from life or death situations in the wilderness translate into effective leadership strategies in the corporate world.

Chief Change Officer

#368 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part One

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Chris also offers his heartfelt advice for young ambitious talents on balancing life goals, family expectations, and career direction. Welcome, Chris. Welcome to my show.

Chief Change Officer

#368 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part One

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Chris, do you remember that I invited you to an in-person event hosted by me back in 2016? And I can't believe that after so many years, I got the second chance of inviting you back now in a virtual format.

Chief Change Officer

#368 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part One

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Chris, you and I are born and raised in Hong Kong, but I know you have a very interesting multicultural background. Tell us more about that.

Chief Change Officer

#368 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part One

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Today's guest is Chris Schrader, founder and executive chairman of 24 Hour Race, which is a global movement against human trafficking that has raised over 20 million US dollars in the last decade. I've known Chris for almost 10 years. Our first encounter was back in 2016 when I invited him to be a panelist at an event I hosted on education technology.

Chief Change Officer

#368 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part One

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Up until this point... You had what seemed like an uneventful childhood, but then something happened while you were attending boarding school in Britain that planted the seed for what would later become the 24-hour race. Can you dive into that? Could you share more about what happened in detail?

Chief Change Officer

#368 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part One

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But how did you end up transforming the whole race into a movement against human trafficking?

Chief Change Officer

#368 Chris Schrader: From Rainy-Day Idea to Global Movement—The 24 Hour Race Story–Part One

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Chris is sharp, well-read, and definitely unconventional. He took a leave of absence from Harvard Spent an extended period of time away and eventually finished his studies in neuroscience while also building and growing tech businesses around the world. Along the way, he founded a charity based on his love for expeditions.

Chief Change Officer

#367 Michael Sakraida: Money, Media, and the Myths That Keep Us Stuck—Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm chatting with Michael Secreta, the insightful money philosopher and author of the book titled Money, Balance, and Joy.

Chief Change Officer

#367 Michael Sakraida: Money, Media, and the Myths That Keep Us Stuck—Part Two

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Build meaningful legacy and manage life's financial curveballs with confidence. You use the word control. In the media, they don't often use the word control. Instead, they like to use the term financial independence or financial freedom. What should I take on financial independence or freedom? In the last season, episode 7, I had a debate with my friend Gargan.

Chief Change Officer

#367 Michael Sakraida: Money, Media, and the Myths That Keep Us Stuck—Part Two

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#367 Michael Sakraida: Money, Media, and the Myths That Keep Us Stuck—Part Two

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who is building software to help millennials achieve financial independence. Personally, I don't buy into it. I think human nature always keeps us chasing new desires. So we're never truly independent. What's your raw take on financial independence from a personal perspective?

Chief Change Officer

#367 Michael Sakraida: Money, Media, and the Myths That Keep Us Stuck—Part Two

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In another episode, actually it's episode five in season one, I spoke with another friend, my classmate from Yale, Katie Curry, about how our risk tolerance changes as we get older, especially when it comes to career moves. We were both risk analysts for financial institutions, so we know it's not an easy concept to understand and to practice.

Chief Change Officer

#367 Michael Sakraida: Money, Media, and the Myths That Keep Us Stuck—Part Two

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Now, when it comes to personal wealth management, how do you explain risk and tolerance of risk to individuals in a way that's easy to understand and embrace?

Chief Change Officer

#367 Michael Sakraida: Money, Media, and the Myths That Keep Us Stuck—Part Two

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Michael dives into the philosophy of financial wellbeing, showing that money alone isn't the golden ticket to happiness. He talks about the need for a balanced ecosystem, which includes monetary wealth, time wealth, and social wealth. explaining that total fulfillment comes when all three work together.

Chief Change Officer

#367 Michael Sakraida: Money, Media, and the Myths That Keep Us Stuck—Part Two

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This is the last question of the day, and I'd like to pick your brain on the rise of financial influencers, as you mentioned financial media before. Financial influencers on platforms like Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube has sparked a lot of debate regarding the impact on individual investment decisions. On the one hand, they democratize access to financial information, easy to access advice.

Chief Change Officer

#367 Michael Sakraida: Money, Media, and the Myths That Keep Us Stuck—Part Two

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On the other hand, they are concerned about their qualifications, the accuracy of their information, and potential conflicts of interest. For example, some may not have formal financial education or may promote investments for personal gain without adequate disclosure. So here are two questions for you.

Chief Change Officer

#367 Michael Sakraida: Money, Media, and the Myths That Keep Us Stuck—Part Two

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One, in this current landscape, in your views, what are the potential risks for individual making investment and money decisions based on all these easily accessible advice? Second question, what advice, what guidance would you offer to someone looking to navigate the vast amount of financial advice online, especially from those influencers?

Chief Change Officer

#367 Michael Sakraida: Money, Media, and the Myths That Keep Us Stuck—Part Two

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How can investors, how can everyday people identify and follow advice that is both secure, safe, and hopefully and potentially profitable?

Chief Change Officer

#367 Michael Sakraida: Money, Media, and the Myths That Keep Us Stuck—Part Two

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He also takes on Wall Street, the financial media, and financial influencers, pointing out how they often miss the emotional side of financial planning. from risk tolerance questionnaires that don't account for real-life feelings to the misleading advice all over social media. Michael gives a candid and refreshing take. He also shares practical advice on how we can reclaim control of our finances

Chief Change Officer

#366 Michael Sakraida: Rethinking Wealth, Balance, and What Really Makes Us Happy—Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm chatting with Michael Secreta, the insightful money philosopher and author of the book titled Money, Balance, and Joy.

Chief Change Officer

#366 Michael Sakraida: Rethinking Wealth, Balance, and What Really Makes Us Happy—Part One

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According to your approach, there are three types of change. Why does change matter in managing personal wealth?

Chief Change Officer

#366 Michael Sakraida: Rethinking Wealth, Balance, and What Really Makes Us Happy—Part One

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build meaningful legacy, and manage life's financial curveballs with confidence. Michael, welcome to our show. Let's start with your journey, your money journey, your life journey, and your career journey.

Chief Change Officer

#366 Michael Sakraida: Rethinking Wealth, Balance, and What Really Makes Us Happy—Part One

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In our next episode, part two of our interview, Michael will take on Wall Street, the financial media and financial influencers, pointing out how they often miss the emotional side of financial planning. From risk tolerance survey that don't even account for real life emotions and behavior to the misleading advice all over social media, Michael gives a refreshing and honest opinion.

Chief Change Officer

#366 Michael Sakraida: Rethinking Wealth, Balance, and What Really Makes Us Happy—Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#366 Michael Sakraida: Rethinking Wealth, Balance, and What Really Makes Us Happy—Part One

54.966

Michael dives into the philosophy of financial well-being, showing that money alone isn't the golden ticket to happiness. He talks about the need for a balanced ecosystem, which includes monetary wealth, time wealth and social wealth. explaining that full fulfillment comes when all three work together.

Chief Change Officer

#366 Michael Sakraida: Rethinking Wealth, Balance, and What Really Makes Us Happy—Part One

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Your book is called Money, Balance, and Joy. Let's start with a all-time favorite question. In what ways and to what extent that money can buy happiness?

Chief Change Officer

#366 Michael Sakraida: Rethinking Wealth, Balance, and What Really Makes Us Happy—Part One

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Tell us about your value systems in managing personal wealth. I believe you call this the total wealth concept.

Chief Change Officer

#366 Michael Sakraida: Rethinking Wealth, Balance, and What Really Makes Us Happy—Part One

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He also takes on Wall Street, the financial media, and financial influences, pointing out how they often miss the emotional side of financial planning. from risk tolerance questionnaires that don't account for real-life feelings to the misleading advice all over social media. Michael gives a candid and refreshing take. He also shares practical advice on how we can reclaim control of our finances.

Chief Change Officer

#366 Michael Sakraida: Rethinking Wealth, Balance, and What Really Makes Us Happy—Part One

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When we are not wealthy. Why aren't we unhappy?

Chief Change Officer

#365 Darcy Eikenberg: How to Rescue Your Career Without Quitting

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I'd love to hear about the other side of things too. We just discussed a more successful case. But I'm also curious about the challenges you faced in helping people through this journey. Stories where things didn't go as planned. Maybe there's a single story that stands out. Or maybe it's a pattern across different experiences.

Chief Change Officer

#365 Darcy Eikenberg: How to Rescue Your Career Without Quitting

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Whether it's due to a client's own psychology, some part of their past serving as a barrier to change, or something else entirely, I'll be interested to know why. Even with all the interventions, guidance, and effort, things sometimes just don't click. Any insights you can share from these not-so-successful transformations would be valuable.

Chief Change Officer

#365 Darcy Eikenberg: How to Rescue Your Career Without Quitting

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. So, you're thinking of quitting your job? Trust me, I've been there many times in my corporate life. You've hit a roadblock.

Chief Change Officer

#365 Darcy Eikenberg: How to Rescue Your Career Without Quitting

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In today's episode, Darcy and I dive into why staying might be the best move and how you can bounce back from a low point. We are all Incredibles with the superpowers to save ourselves. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#365 Darcy Eikenberg: How to Rescue Your Career Without Quitting

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That's a powerful story. Reflecting on my own experience and those of friends, colleagues, and younger professionals I've met, there's one major barrier that often stands out when it comes to navigating career transitions or even finding ways to stay engaged and resilient in the same role without burning out. And that's fear. You explore this in your book and I would like to discuss it further.

Chief Change Officer

#365 Darcy Eikenberg: How to Rescue Your Career Without Quitting

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Fear is such a powerful force. It can hold us back or if managed well, propel us forward. Could you share more on how this fear factor works in career transitions and how we can learn to manage it better? I can think of so many ways fear plays out. From fear of failure to fear of the unknown.

Chief Change Officer

#365 Darcy Eikenberg: How to Rescue Your Career Without Quitting

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Great, I'll definitely try some of your strategies. To wrap up though, there's so many things we can do from reading books and getting professional help to learning from others. If you had to give us just a couple of pieces of advice that we can start working, that we can start trying right now, what would those be?

Chief Change Officer

#365 Darcy Eikenberg: How to Rescue Your Career Without Quitting

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Absolutely. Getting clarity on the situation before jumping to solutions is key. It's always about understanding the problem deeply before trying to solve it. So often, we think we've identified the issue and rush to fix it, only to find the solution doesn't really fit. because we misjudged the situation from the start.

Chief Change Officer

#365 Darcy Eikenberg: How to Rescue Your Career Without Quitting

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Focusing on the core of the problem, giving yourself space to analyze and allowing for clarity before taking action or seeking help. can make all the difference.

Chief Change Officer

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#365 Darcy Eikenberg: How to Rescue Your Career Without Quitting

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Many coaches out there say, I help leaders with this and that. But I'm curious, in your practice, which specific groups of leaders are you working with? What particular qualities or types of people do you focus on helping and empowering you?

Chief Change Officer

#365 Darcy Eikenberg: How to Rescue Your Career Without Quitting

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Your book is called Red Cape Rescue. The first question that came to my mind was why Red Cape? What is the meaning behind this title?

Chief Change Officer

#365 Darcy Eikenberg: How to Rescue Your Career Without Quitting

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Each morning, you're dragging yourself out of bed, dreading the day ahead. The office vibe feels off. Politics and gossip are draining, and deadlines seem endless. Walking away feels like the only way out, whether quietly or loudly. But our guest today, Darcy Eichenberg,

Chief Change Officer

#365 Darcy Eikenberg: How to Rescue Your Career Without Quitting

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So we are all our own superheroes, right? Batman, Spiderman, Superman, the Incredibles. We each have that hero inside us. And as I read your book, I notice you lay it out in three distinct parts. Reset how you think. Revise what you say. and reinvent what you do. Could you give us an overview of these three stages of transformation? Reset, revise, and reinvent.

Chief Change Officer

#365 Darcy Eikenberg: How to Rescue Your Career Without Quitting

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I think it would be really helpful for listeners, whether they are senior, junior, or mid-level, who might feel a bit stuck. A breakdown of this process might give them some inspiration and even help them find a way forward.

Chief Change Officer

#365 Darcy Eikenberg: How to Rescue Your Career Without Quitting

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we can make active choices of those in the same way that you chose what you the shirt you put on today the first section reset really resonates with me knowing yourself understanding yourself that self-awareness you emphasize is powerful once we graduate from college We are basically on our own with no career center or clear path to guide us. Yet, we have 30, 40, even 50 years of work life ahead.

Chief Change Officer

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And even when career centers are available in college or business school, the scope is often narrowed, leaving us without realistic guidance on figuring ourselves out and charting our own course. So this self-awareness, this self-empowerment that you talk about and reset how you think really feels essential.

Chief Change Officer

#365 Darcy Eikenberg: How to Rescue Your Career Without Quitting

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From your experience working with seasoned leaders and helping them figure out who they are and where they're going, Could you share a few examples? Maybe one success story and one more challenging case. Just to give us some insights into the process, the lessons learned, and what navigating those challenges can look like. Story time.

Chief Change Officer

#365 Darcy Eikenberg: How to Rescue Your Career Without Quitting

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Author of the book titled, Red Cape Rescue, Save Your Career Without Leaving Your Job, says, you don't have to quit to save your career, but how? I know what it's like to feel stuck. Back then, I wished for someone who could help me find a way out. When reading Darcy's book, I kept thinking, I wish I would have this when I needed it. But you don't have to wait.

Chief Change Officer

#66 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part One

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Her life has revolved around battling this disease, something she never imagined facing. As she says, if life didn't give us adversity and challenges... This story is too powerful and real for just one episode. Today, in part one, Athena shares her experience with Lyme disease, a condition that remains poorly understood but has profoundly impacted her health. She'll talk about how she caught it,

Chief Change Officer

#66 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part One

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So you were diagnosed around seven to eight years ago and you discovered through surgery rather than injury. You've also said dealing with chronic pain in a range of challenges. How has this disease affected your day-to-day life and work? I can only imagine how difficult it must be.

Chief Change Officer

#66 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation. Today, I'm talking to Athena Bronson, a real estate agent from Denver, Colorado. No, we are not talking about real estate. Instead, we dive into her extraordinary journey of resilience.

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To the extent that you are comfortable sharing, I'd love to hear about how you've managed and navigated these challenges.

Chief Change Officer

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I really resonate with what you said about being our biggest advocate, especially in tough times. We hear a lot about IQ and EQ, emotional quotient, emotional intelligence. But there's another measure, adversity quotient or AQ, which seems less talked about yet so crucial. I think we are all starting to see how important it really is Your experience is a powerful example of this.

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what she's endured, and the fight to survive. Tomorrow in part two, Asina will share how she not only survived, but found ways to thrive, rebuild her support system, and grow her career once again. Athena, welcome to our show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. I know you're in Denver. Good afternoon to you.

Chief Change Officer

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Physical pain is intense and medications might help here and there. Maybe make sleep easier. But that's only part of it. It's the mental resilience that really keeps us going. Especially in those moments when you are alone, in pain, facing it all. What stands out from what you've just shared is how you found ways to mentally change your focus, even on the small things, to help you stay grounded.

Chief Change Officer

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It seems like that's been your best defense and maybe even your offense.

Chief Change Officer

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you

Chief Change Officer

#66 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part One

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I hope this turns out to be an enjoyable conversation that takes your mind off the stress of what's arguably the biggest event in the world right now.

Chief Change Officer

#66 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part One

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At the peak of her real estate career, feeling invincible and unstoppable, Athena's life took unexpected turn. Strange health issues appeared, and she was eventually diagnosed with Lyme disease, a condition that would change everything. For the past seven years, Athena has lived in chronic pain. relying on plasma transfusions four days each month just to keep going.

Chief Change Officer

#66 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part One

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Athena, can you share with us how old were you when you were first diagnosed?

Chief Change Officer

#66 Athena Brownson: Shifting Mindpower to Rebuild Life After an 8-Year Battle with Lyme Disease — Part One

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You mentioned that this disease is rare and you were fortunate to find a doctor who understood it well. But for most of my listeners in the U.S. as well as internationally, this condition isn't widely known, meaning there's a lack of awareness, which could be risky. Could you enlighten us a bit more? What exactly is this disease and what should people know about it?

Chief Change Officer

#173 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part One

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Monet Tennessee is a diverse group with brands all over the world. Given this depth and breadth, diversity becomes a source of complexity. I can imagine that in such a multicultural, multi-layered enterprise, you must respect each brand's uniqueness while maintaining alignment with the firm's overall values. How do you tailor the DEI initiatives to manage this complexity?

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Next, as we dive into advancing the DEI agenda at Monat, Tennessee, Greg will share how he's been listening intently to the people who embody the heart and soul of the group's businesses, fostering an inclusive culture that's grounded in reality. In our third segment, we'll dive into the complexities of managing DEI across Monet Tennessee's diverse array of brands.

Chief Change Officer

#173 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In this episode, I've got a special treat for you.

Chief Change Officer

#173 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part One

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Can you be more specific about a representative organization? What does it look like?

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#173 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part One

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Can you give us an example where the cultural shifts you've worked hard to drive within the organization have helped real people, your colleagues, take more control over their careers? How do these changes manifest in individual employee experiences?

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Greg will explain how he tailors the DEI strategies to respect and reflect each brand's unique identity. while aligning with the group's overarching corporate values. Lastly, we certainly can't overlook Greg's upcoming book, Bond. where he shares invaluable lessons on building meaningful connections, not just within the workplace, but in our everyday lives.

Chief Change Officer

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When we first met, you told me about publishing a new book. The title is Bond. What drove you to write the first book in your life about creating a sense of belonging and bonding in organizations? How do your own experiences tie into the bigger picture of diversity and inclusion you lay out in your book?

Chief Change Officer

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please do share a copy with me when it's available. I would like to host you again to talk more about your book, your ideas. From what I heard, this book is not simply about DEI. The world of work is changing. Building bonds, building bridges, building spaces across individuals is not limited within the walls of organization. It's simply the basic need of human beings.

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I can see that your book applies to a lot of real scenarios.

Chief Change Officer

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Yes. And we will have more Chief Change Officers around the world. Thank you so much.

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#173 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

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It's about fostering a sense of true belonging and deeper inclusion everywhere. So if you are eager to learn how to make your own laws of change and hear from one of the leading voices in human transformation today, you are in the right place. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#173 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part One

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Welcome. I'm very excited to have you on board. You are in the people function with a specific focus on DEI. Can you talk about how your early career experiences shape what you do today? What did you learn back then that still has implications and relevance for you being a people leader with a change enablement mandate?

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You have been in the people function, in the HR function for long, but then you were in the commercial world for like eight years. Tell us more about your transformation or how your commercial experience prepared you going into the HR area.

Chief Change Officer

#173 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part One

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Today, we are joined by Greg Morley, a leader in the world of human resources and a master of diversity, equity, and inclusion at Monette, Tennessee, one of the oldest and largest wine and spirits conglomerates in the world. Greg has an amazing story to share, covering the unique experiences that have shaped his leadership style and his strategic approach to DEI.

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You come from the client-facing and operational side. In your experience, how important is it for people leaders to work closely with other leaders like CFOs and CEOs? Can you share with us how this chemistry, this teamwork impacts the success of a modern day company

Chief Change Officer

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Throughout your career life, you've been involved in the DEI efforts at different points in time. Now, at Monette, Tennessee, have your approaches to DEI changed over the years? Are there any big lessons you've picked up along the way?

Chief Change Officer

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Let's explore what we'll uncover today with Greg. First, We'll discover how his early days handling customer complaints at call centers helped him develop empathy, quick thinking, and communication skills that became the cornerstone of his leadership at Disley, Hasbro, and now Monat, Tennessee.

Chief Change Officer

#173 Greg Morley: Can “Bond” Save Us From an $8.9 Trillion Employee Meltdown? – Part One

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In advancing the DEI agenda, can you describe the initial challenges and strategies your firm faced? How did you begin to tackle issues like, for example, unconscious bias and change company policies to be more techoli-inclusive, rather than using DEI simply as part of corporate branding jargon?

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition, to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shares how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In the next episodes, we'll explore the learning required for transformation, why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skill stacking is the future.

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Let me share with you one live example, which is this podcast show. When I first started, it was a weekly show, one episode per week on average. Now, seven episodes, one week, which means it has become a daily show, one episode per day. Then some people joke with me. Hey, Vince, are you using AI for all of this? And my answer is simple.

Chief Change Officer

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There's no tool out there right now that can holistically handle the entire process of creating seven episodes a week. Sure, I use ChatGPT to check grammar or refine some copywriting when I need a bit of inspiration. But beyond that, everything else is on me.

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#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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I invite every guest personally, schedule pre-calls, talk with them for at least 30 minutes before actual recording, send follow-up emails, handle all the nitty-gritty details, and of course, host the show myself. This voice you hear, that's all human. Even editing every single piece, I do it myself with the soundtrack.

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#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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I know there's so-called AI-driven tools that claim to pick segments for audiograms or do the heavy lifting, but honestly, I do it manually. I'm so immersed in each conversation that I know exactly which moments stand out and deserve to be highlighted.

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is a lot of human touch a lot of my personal footprint my single print in every part of the process and that's what creates the final product looking ahead i think the strategy for individuals whether in work or life has to involve finding the balance

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And finally, in part three, we'll tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Buckle up. This one is a ride.

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Along the way, we need to decide which parts of the process need more human touch, where monitoring, intuition, and judgment are essential, and then identify which parts can be standardized or delegated to AI to work faster with more precision and on a larger scale. That's what I see as a way forward, creating your own strategy for division of labor between the human and the machine.

Chief Change Officer

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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I kind of agree or disagree with what you just said. Lifelong learning is about the attitude, in my opinion. Lifelong learning isn't just about acquiring new knowledge. It's about figuring out how you learn best. Some people thrive in classroom settings or in-person workshops, while others prefer self-paced digital formats.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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The methods vary, but the goal is the same, which is to keep growing, to keep learning. When it comes to skill stacking, I see it as something deeper. You mentioned it's about purposefully merging diverse skills to solve complex challenges, and I think you're right. What's often missing isn't the means to learn, We have more access than ever to tools, training, and knowledge.

Chief Change Officer

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The gap lies in connecting the dots between those skills and leveraging them in meaningful ways to multiply the impact. In my view, we are living in a tool economy, tool, T-O-O-L. Everything is about the tool. whether it's chat GPT today, Google yesterday, or whatever the next hot thing will be. The mindset is, if you have a problem, there's a tool for that. Need a solution?

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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Just grab a hammer, a screwdriver. What is the problem? Most of the time, those tools are just solving service-level symptoms. not addressing the deeper underlying issues. It's like putting a band-aid on a cup without treating the infection. Sure, the immediate problem looks solved, but the root cause persists, and people end up repeating the same mistakes.

Chief Change Officer

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I see this pattern a lot, especially among knowledge workers. They buy into the idea of lifelong learning, sign up for courses, pay for certifications, and stack up all these skills. But they don't actually go anywhere with them. Why? Because the key isn't just acquiring skills, it's in connecting them, applying them to real-life scenarios, case by case, and solving problems with them.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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This is a three-part series with Colin Selvidge. In part one, the first episode, we'll dive into Colin's fascinating journey as a self-proclaimed change addict turned change guru. Colin's career spans continents, cultures, and industries, seven countries lived in, seven more seconded to, and projects in over 70 nations.

Chief Change Officer

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in an integrated manner. So the missing piece is less about technical skills and more about human skills, what most people call solved skills. Problem solving, critical thinking, emotional intelligence, communication, these are the connective tissue that make skill stacking impactful. Without them, you're just collecting tools in a toolbox. You don't know how to use effectively.

Chief Change Officer

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That's where I think the future of lifelong learning needs to focus. Not just teaching new skills, but on helping people build the connections between them and apply them in meaningful, impactful ways. It's not about the tools themselves. It's about what you build with them.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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So you've been diving deep into AI lately, right? As someone with a strong background in change management and leadership, how do you see this technology shaping the future of change management and skills decking? What's your vision for where we're headed?

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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From organizational transformation to personal reinvention, he has mastered the art of embracing change and applying those lessons to life. In this conversation, Colin unpacks his unique perspective on change. How throwing himself into the unknown led to unparalleled growth and insight.

Chief Change Officer

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Destruction and wastage. It's just noise.

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

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One thing that many people agree on, but I don't think they are fully figured out yet, It's the importance of human skills in an AI-driven world. I like to call it human intelligence. In fact, that's the essence of this podcast. My goal is to elevate human intelligence by uniting global voices like yours. For me, human intelligence is about being experience-driven,

Chief Change Officer

#172 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Three

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

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time-tested and grounded in real-life skills. It's about tapping into high-sight, insight, and foresight, exactly like the wisdom you shared over the past hour. And while we talk about human intelligence being crucial in the AI era, I think that's exactly what we are lacking.

Chief Change Officer

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With all these tools, social media platforms, and tech innovations, people aren't developing essential skills like communication, which is at the core of human intelligence. So my question to you is this. Human skills are critical, but how do we bring them back? How do we nurture and develop these skills as we move forward?

Chief Change Officer

#96 Mary Shea PhD: Cracking the Code for Hidden Talent

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Nope, Mary's is all about making waves and driving positive change. So it's no surprise she's now teamed up with a rising star in the HR tech world. Let's talk about why this matters. Our job market right now is like a roller coaster. We've got layoffs, downsizing, companies flipping their business models on their heads, and AI stepping into the ring.

Chief Change Officer

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I can appreciate that if I were one of those candidates, by the way, in your process, I totally appreciate the fact that someone senior like you and your colleagues got really involved in the process because if I join, if you offer me a job, I will be working with you. How you'd treat me is indicative of how I will be treated as a company. Okay. So yes, I do have a story to share.

Chief Change Officer

#96 Mary Shea PhD: Cracking the Code for Hidden Talent

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I don't usually share a lot of personal story, especially if I do interview because I want the focus to be on the guest. But this time for this topic, I do have a personal story. So if you could allow me. This recent experience of mine really got me thinking about the challenges and opportunities in the HR space today. So I was up for this senior position at a big international brand.

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Throw in some political and economic curve balls, and you've got a recipe for a lot of people hunting for jobs. It's not just about finding work, isn't it? We are in this fascinating era where you might have four generations all working side by side. And AI is like this double-edged sword opening doors for some while others are wondering if it will show them the door.

Chief Change Officer

#96 Mary Shea PhD: Cracking the Code for Hidden Talent

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You know, one of those roles that asks for over 20 years of work experience. Exciting stuff, right? Now, here's where it gets interesting. The person interviewing me, a young HR professional, maybe two or three years out of college, and she asked me to join her on a Zoom call. She sent this request through a automatic recruitment system. So I replied. I said, yes. I pick a date.

Chief Change Officer

#96 Mary Shea PhD: Cracking the Code for Hidden Talent

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And now keep in mind, this isn't during COVID and we are in the same city. So I offered to pop into the office for face-to-face conversation. Well, she did not come back to me. Maybe it's because of the automatic system. Then when we got on the call, I once again mentioned to her that I would love to meet her in person.

Chief Change Officer

#96 Mary Shea PhD: Cracking the Code for Hidden Talent

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I reached out to her before the call, and her response was, oh no, Friday is work from home. We just do the call. All right, I thought, let's roll with it. From the moment we started, I can tell she's just reading questions off the screen next to her computer. It felt like I was in some kind of robotic interview simulator.

Chief Change Officer

#96 Mary Shea PhD: Cracking the Code for Hidden Talent

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The questions were all over the place, barely touching on what the job was actually about. And I can tell you, some questions were inappropriate, touching upon age and generation. There, I'm thinking, where's the human touch in all this? It really left me wondering about the company's culture. If this is how they treat potential candidates and executives, what's it like to work there?

Chief Change Officer

#96 Mary Shea PhD: Cracking the Code for Hidden Talent

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It wasn't exactly the best first impression. I think in today's world where competition for top talent is getting more and more intensive, HR is not only for recruitment, for administration, for training. What sets one employer apart from another employer for recruitment of top talents? HR plays a very, very crucial role in the whole process. HR is the frontline ambassador for the company.

Chief Change Officer

#96 Mary Shea PhD: Cracking the Code for Hidden Talent

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My experience felt like a missed opportunity. It made me wonder, in today's market, do you think advanced tech and AI solutions might actually offer a more personalized and effective experience than human recruiters? especially when there is a significant gap in experience or multi-generational understanding? How do you see technology potentially bridging these gaps?

Chief Change Officer

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So where does it all leave us? What's the future of work looking like? That's exactly what we are diving in today with Mary. She's going to give us the lowdown on what's happening in HR and recruitment. Ready? Let's jump in and hear what Mary's got to say. Mary, welcome back.

Chief Change Officer

#96 Mary Shea PhD: Cracking the Code for Hidden Talent

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It's really good. As we speak, a lot of the issues I've raised, the solutions to these issues, the approach to dealing with and managing the risks of what AI technology can and will bring to the table are still being developed and explored. That's the beauty of change. Change is changing itself. We'll come back to this in our next episode together.

Chief Change Officer

#96 Mary Shea PhD: Cracking the Code for Hidden Talent

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Before we wrap up, I have one more question for you. We've talked about a lot of technological potential and advancements in HR for employers. Let's flip the table and talk about job seekers. Given your experience in this area, your read on this industry, What advice would you give to job seekers in this increasingly AI-driven market?

Chief Change Officer

#96 Mary Shea PhD: Cracking the Code for Hidden Talent

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How can they position themselves better and stronger in the AI-driven recruitment process to become a standout candidate, for example, and effectively communicate the value, the real value to the employers? For this question, you and I know very well that using ChatGPT or any AI tool to create a 100% polished resume and cover letter is not the answer. So what's your advice?

Chief Change Officer

#96 Mary Shea PhD: Cracking the Code for Hidden Talent

207.762

You've had a deep career journey from being an industry analyst at Forrester to now collaborating with a rising star in HR technology. What drew you to this HR tech space? What makes you believe we are at a tipping point for accelerated growth in this sector?

Chief Change Officer

#96 Mary Shea PhD: Cracking the Code for Hidden Talent

2221.851

You answer one of the questions on my list is about networking. You and I started and built our careers before the digital age. So our training, our experience involved a lot of human touch, a lot of personal touch. For example, phone calling, industry event, socialization, face-to-face, keeping in touch, in close touch with people before we had LinkedIn. The gesture of reciprocation

Chief Change Officer

#96 Mary Shea PhD: Cracking the Code for Hidden Talent

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Yet the younger generations, they've grown up in a digital era. So the definition of networking, the approach to communicating with people, to building and developing sustainable, meaningful relationships, so much different from ours.

Chief Change Officer

#96 Mary Shea PhD: Cracking the Code for Hidden Talent

2480.862

100% agree. That's why I never see myself... building a podcast, a show. I am building a community, a global community involving minds like yourself who is progressive about developing, evolving, and revolutionizing their careers, their future.

Chief Change Officer

#96 Mary Shea PhD: Cracking the Code for Hidden Talent

2520.58

Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#96 Mary Shea PhD: Cracking the Code for Hidden Talent

4.488

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I've got a treat for you. we are welcoming back a familiar voice to the show, Mary Shea.

Chief Change Officer

#96 Mary Shea PhD: Cracking the Code for Hidden Talent

41.427

If you caught our first season back in March, you might remember her from episode three and four. If you missed those, don't worry. They're still there if you want to catch up. But we'll cover plenty of ground today. Now, let me tell you. Mary's career path is anything but ordinary.

Chief Change Officer

#96 Mary Shea PhD: Cracking the Code for Hidden Talent

557.697

I check out the website, they offer a full suite of solutions and products for businesses and enterprises. I'm intrigued by the idea of uncovering hidden talent pools. Can you walk us through how this actually works in practice? I believe this is the, this is what you call a differentiation or differentiation factor in high quotient.

Chief Change Officer

#96 Mary Shea PhD: Cracking the Code for Hidden Talent

66.625

We're talking a journey from classical musician to frontline salesperson, all the way to senior tech leader in sales and revenue enablement. Talk about range, huh? But here's what really makes Mary tick. She's all about using tech to shake things up in how we work. As she put it in her last conversation, she's not one for playing by the standard rule book.

Chief Change Officer

#96 Mary Shea PhD: Cracking the Code for Hidden Talent

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There's a common belief that scalable HR tech solutions are best suited for lower-end, less skilled jobs versus higher-end, highly skilled and senior jobs. I know you have some strong views on this. Can you share your perspectives and perhaps debunk some of the misconceptions around the topic?

Chief Change Officer

#95 Greg Morley: Turning DEI Drama into Workplace Wins – Part Two

9.818

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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Here comes the workplace to close our conversation. If one of your four children came to you and said, Mom, I feel stuck in my career or just in life. What would you say? They're probably in their 20s or 30s now, right in the thick of building their lives. And as we know, every generation is facing its own challenges in today's world.

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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With all your experience guiding others, individuals, leaders, organizations, How do you bring those same lessons and tools into your own family life? Or do you blend in those insights in a subtle manner through how you show up as a parent, maybe even now as a grandparent? I'd love to hear how your work and wisdom show up in the most personal part of your life.

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Rebecca Sultans, strategy coach, facilitator, and someone who's been running her own show for 27 years.

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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especially for those who lead others in their careers. You want to share what you've learned, offer your support, maybe even pass down a few tools. But at the same time, your kids aren't your clients. They are their own people. So instead of controlling the outcome and even the process, it becomes more about preparing them, helping them view their own judgment, confidence, and resilience.

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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And yes, that means allowing them to make decisions, even the wrong ones, and being there to support them through the consequences.

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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Rebecca, we've covered so much ground today. Truly a lot, a lot of rich and thoughtful insights. Before we close, is there anything you'd like to add?

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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That's where we leave it. Rebecca doesn't offer tidy answers, but she does offer frameworks, metaphors, and the kind of permission a lot of us need right now. Reinvention doesn't mean changing everything. Sometimes it's just seeing your life from a new angle. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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You are one of the few guests, or maybe even the first, who has such deep experience on both sides of transformation, i.e. organizations and individuals. So I love to hear your take. What are the similarities between these two types of change? And just as important, what are the differences?

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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I feel like you're in a rare position to speak to both and probably one of the best people to break it down clearly.

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

65.501

She trained for international development, hit pause to raise four kids, and ended up building a career that never stopped evolving. In this two-part series, we talk about the moments that change everything. Career profits, creative rocks, and what it really takes to keep moving forward without burning out. Rebecca's story is sharp, honest, and refreshingly unpolished. Let's get into it.

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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Earlier, you said something that really stuck with me, that history is a springboard to the future, not a drag or inertia. It made me think of the comfort zone. Sometimes that zone becomes so comfortable, people don't want to leave it. Given your own life experience, Raising four children, now with two grandchildren. You've lived through many transitions yourself.

Chief Change Officer

#268 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part Two

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So when you work with people who are in that more mature stage of life, how do you help them reimagine, gain clarity, and actually take action? How do you get them to use their past as a launchpad Not a reason to stay seated in the same old armchair.

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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Good morning, Rebecca. Welcome to the show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Finally, talking to someone from Canada again.

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

13.795

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Rebecca Sultans, strategy coach, facilitator, and someone who's been running her own show for 27 years.

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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Let me try to summarize. Corrupt me if I'm wrong. First, reimagined is about creating a vision. But many people either don't have a clear vision, or if they do, it's not specific enough. That's where you step in. Help them define it, make it real, and break it down into something they can actually see and articulate. Then comes the reassurance, like getting a personal trainer.

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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They're not just paying for the gym. They're paying for someone to keep them accountable, motivated, and moving forward. That's the role you play, helping them stay disciplined, reminding them that it's hard but doable, and that the result is worth it. You also bring in tools not just to help them execute, but to make sure the progress is sustainable.

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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And this applies not just to individuals, but also to organizations. Sometimes the organization knows it wants to change, but doesn't even know what needs to change. You help them discover that first and then guide them through the process. together, right?

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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That's it for today. We've covered Rebecca's own private PAC journey, from global work to solo primary life. But next, we get into what she's learned from helping others through their turning points. In part two, we talk about drawing the future before chasing it, finding momentum when motivation is gone missing, and why midlife might be the best time to reimagine everything. See you there.

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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What made you decide to start that practice? Was there a specific moment or experience that sparked it?

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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When I look at your website, it honestly feels like you cover everything, especially for large institutions. I saw the range. Schools, higher ed institutions, government agencies, private companies. You work with executives, you work with individuals, you've published a book, you've got a book club, and even what looks like off-site coaching programs or retreats coming up. That's a lot.

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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And I imagine you did not launch with everything all at once. You probably went through your own transitions. testing, adjusting, evolving the whole practice over time. So rather than diving into all 27 years, we need a whole series for that, maybe just share a bit about the journey of building this practice. What were some of the major turning points?

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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Were there moments where you had to start over or rebuild from scratch? Anything that really shaped the way your work looks today, especially while helping others through their transitions?

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

65.501

She trained for international development, hit pause to raise four kids, and ended up building a career that never stopped evolving. In this two-part series, we talk about the moments that change everything. Career profits, creative rocks, and what it really takes to keep moving forward without burning out. Rebecca's story is sharp, honest, and refreshingly unpolished. Let's get into it.

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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As I was listening to your story, one word came to my mind. Actually, it's not even my word. It's yours. The word is re-imagine. That's exactly what you're doing now for your clients, for individuals, and you've done it for yourself too. You mentioned that first move, how you went somewhere, came back, studied, learned, and transformed. That's the process.

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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It sounds like that spirit of re-imagining is at the core of everything you do now. But before someone even gets to that breakthrough moment, There are a lot of challenges, things that block them from even starting to reimagine. Whether it's mindset, fear, financial pressure, and just feeling stuck, feeling incapable, there are always barriers.

Chief Change Officer

#267 Rebecca Sutherns: Building a Life That Flexes—Not Breaks — Part One

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So in your experience, what are some of the biggest challenges people face before they can truly reimagine their future? And as a follow-up, could you share any examples of how you've helped someone move through that stuck place and reach the other side?

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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According to him, in order to change, we need to first unfreeze, a stage where we understand the need and find the motivation to change. Second, change, the stage where you move towards a different behavior. Third, change, re-freeze, a stage where you solidify the change and establish that new behavior as the norm.

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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You mentioned that you are a keen learner. So can you suggest books that have helped you learn, helped you grow over time and move forward?

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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to solve problems and to be a better person. Every guest, they will suggest some books that have inspired them. So that's why I like to share their collective knowledge, collective inspirations with our audience. So that's the reason why I asked you about your source of inspiration. I'm also a keen reader. I've published two books and I'm writing my third.

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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So that's also a reason why I always like to share knowledge. I also like to learn from each other. Like you said, you like to learn from other people's stories. The issues you mentioned, mental health, aging population, I can't resonate with you more about aging, isolation. I'm also only a child myself.

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

12.839

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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Like you said, retired people, older people, they either stay with their spouse or live alone or live with a helper. Mental health, not only for youth, but basically for all ages. Women, 50% of the world population, yet not well-represented, under-empowered. So next time when you come back, tell us more about what you learned from

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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stories of people around you from your stakeholders, older members of the communities, but also members of the youth, as well as the women. Despite all these systematic issues, at the same time, lots of opportunities for us to drive change. Tell us more about those changes that you have over time pursued and how you are still in the fight for more changes for your communities.

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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In Pei Ling's case, in the first stage, unfreeze, if you recall in part one of our interview, I asked her specifically about the why, about the need and the motivation to change, from psychology to business consulting, from private individual to public officer. So the need and the motivation to change, figure it out. This stage is very personal. It's about you. You may not get 100% of the why yet.

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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80, 90%, that's already very good. Because in the next stage, when you're going through the process of change, you will get to know more about yourself. So you'll figure out more, but you do need to start with a good chunk of understanding of your need and the motivation to change at the early stage, as in Pei Ling's case. The second stage, change, is the hardest part.

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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We start with thinking of yourself, but then in the second stage, you have to go beyond yourself, go above yourself. You need to think like a social psychologist. Change behavior is a function of a person and a situation. In the first stage, you figure out yourself, the person, but what about the situation? What in that environment that helps you drive and sustain the change?

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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What factors affect your behavior? What are some of the negative reinforcement factors? Well, in Pei Ling's case, for example, attacks in person and social media. What are the positive reinforcement factors? In Pei Ling's case, she got the support from the political party. In your case, you work in a big firm. You got support from a boss, from a CEO, from a board of directors.

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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You are an entrepreneur. You got support from your investors. Good for you. But that's only one piece of the situation. In Penning's case... She went out there, exposed herself, faced the people, faced the challenges, trying to turn distrust into trust, to win the hearts and minds of people, get the buy-in in order to fit in. On top of that, she went for an MBA degree.

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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She tried to build up her knowledge base to become more business savvy. But it's not just the body of knowledge or the fame of the degree. A lot of people thinking of getting an MBA degree missed the point. It's the situation you got yourself in that makes a difference in your life and career. In Pei Ling's case, she was younger, had less business experiences, let alone international experiences.

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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But then, in those two years, she got direct exposure, direct interaction with people from all around the world, classmates who are more mature, more experienced from all walks of life, plus the professors. the deep knowledge in a lot of areas. Within two years, she built up not just the momentum of her growth, but the solid foundation for her to keep going on and on and on.

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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So that's the value of an MBA degree in her situation. not to mention about a very important ecosystem of support she has nurtured over time. When she refreezes as a competent woman leader to fight for the interests of her people, she got all of those elements in place. It's about her, but it's also about her. To recap, three-step model of change.

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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First, unfreeze, where you figure out yourself the need and the motivation to change. Second, Think like a social psychologist. Figure out your environment. Remember, change behavior is a function of a person and a situation. Figure out the strengthening and the weakening factors. Magnify the positive reinforcement factors. Downplay the negative reinforcement factors.

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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In some cases, the situation isn't just right for you, then get out of it. You don't have to get yourself stuck in that. Change your game. Get onto another stage for you to sing, to dance, to perform, and outperform. Third, solidify all of these change elements. They're self-reinforcing to each other, so you're essentially building yourself a wider and deeper foundation.

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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In her last episode, we look at how Pei Ling overcame the darkest period in her life, transforming from being a psychology major into winning the general election as the youngest elected parliamentarian. She discussed how facing biases related to age and gender has made her more resilient, both in terms of stamina and ability. A happy ending story for sure, but is that it? Of course not.

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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taking you from the older self to the future self in a much more sustainable and successful manner. There is no overnight success. That's just a myth. Any success, any sustainable success always takes patience, effort, and a deep process of change. Now, let's go back to Pei Ling's story. Let's look at her model of change, how she made her own law of change to play the long game.

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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I met you around 2013 when you started MBA. When I recall the statistics of our class, the average age was 37. You were among the youngest. What's the logic and psychology behind your decision to pursue an MBA degree after you got into politics?

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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How would you describe your two years experience studying with people who are from different walks of life and most of us are older, have different experience from you?

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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Oh, yeah.

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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Yeah, part of your growth process, you are always on call as a coach. elected member of the parliament, always community works, always on. And then you finish your MBA education, you move back to the real world, you got your private sector job, full-time job, you got this public duty, and you're a mother of two.

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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How do you balance, not just balancing your timetables, but also the roles you played? How do you balance all these different responsibilities and duties?

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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That's why we have part two, Before we dive in, let me share with you one golden rule of success in driving and sustaining change. Whatever change you try to make, lose weight, launch a new product, or even trying to stage a large-scale transformation project in your firm, this rule applies. This is a three-stage model of change proposed by the founding father of social psychology, Kurt Lewin.

Chief Change Officer

#355 Tin Pei Ling: Making Motherhood, Parliament, and Progress Work—Her Way

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You mentioned about women empowerment. Tell us a bit more about your work there, perhaps other issues that keep you busy, keep you on your toes.

Chief Change Officer

#64 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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We'll discuss the resistance to change because of poorly designed processes and how improving these processes led to much greater acceptance. We'll talk about the importance of empathy, curiosity, and ownership in driving change. We'll also cover how AI is reshaping education and the challenges institutions face in integrating this technology.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I welcome Dr. Bridget Burns from the University Innovation Alliance.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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Lastly, we'll explore the crucial transition from education to employment and how her organization is helping students achieve better life outcomes. Sit back and enjoy this unfiltered conversation packed with insights and practical advice. Yeah, empathy, curiosity, and ownership are crucial for change. Like you said, no one really likes change unless it benefits them in some way.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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Yes, I can't wait for you to announce the new goals because I can see this as a global issue for higher education institutions. Just a quick story to share with you. When you talk about career centers, I totally agree. And like a business, your clients are the students. But if the shop is set up in the basement, the customers won't go there.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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Why not go to your customer directly, meaning the classroom, as you mentioned? From my experience, when I studied in the States, I attended Yale School of Management as an international MBA student. In the US, especially for brand-name MBA programs, they're all well-funded, have a lot of resources. From day one, they started talking about careers.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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preparing us for interviews and summer internships right from the start. That was just in August and September. And they were already talking about getting our resumes polished and reaching out to potential employers and alumni for informational interview. At first, I found it very stressful, but it was crucial training. They immersed us in the mindset and skillset needed

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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So by the time we graduated, we were better prepared. I graduated right after 9-1-1, which wasn't an encouraging job market. But I acquired essential career skills during those two years, even before LinkedIn and other technologies were in place.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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I think this kind of preparation is vital for undergraduates, regardless of whether they are at a state, university, an Ivy League school, or anywhere else. At the end of the day, we study something we are interested in, and we want to use that knowledge to make money, support ourselves, and help others. We want to feel fulfilled.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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Education is a crucial means for us to achieve our goals and contribute to the society. If there are hurdles that hinder the process, it affects the mobility and progress of society, leading to social and economic problems. Bridget, I really appreciate your time. I know we overran, but I didn't want to cut you off because you have so much valuable insights to share.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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I've learned a lot from you today.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

It also needs to generate collective benefits. People often ask, why does change? How can we make things better? Why does my contribution matter in this case or that case? How can I help? Maybe I can help more than you expected. Ownership isn't just about being informed or notified. It's about contributing to the evolution of the change and being responsible for the outcome.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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If the outcome isn't as good as expected, how can we work together to make it better? This sense of ownership, this power of ownership is so impactful.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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Honestly, if I had an office and someone came in and said, hey, we are going to implement this change. And because of that, I'm going to move from my corner office to a shared desk in a large area. I wouldn't be happy either. I can totally resonate with that scenario. Speaking of humanity, there's one growing area we are all watching closely.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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AI is here to stay and will impact all areas of our lives, including education. There's a lot, a lot of hope for its potential in education. So for a change leader like you, the question isn't just about integrating AI into higher education, but how to make the best use of it.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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Based on your experience working with these leaders and institutions, what could be the hurdles or challenges for the institutions in embracing and integrating AI into teaching, learning, and administration? How can they create a collective intelligence scenario that many people are looking forward to?

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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Bridget and I met at South by Southwest when we were on the same judging panel for startups in education technology. That was a time before COVID. Many changes have occurred ever since. Bridget has navigated these changes firsthand in higher education.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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She's now leading a university innovation alliance focused on improving graduation outcomes for students from low-income families, a mission tied closely to her own background. In this episode, we'll explore how she convinced 11 schools to work together shifting the paradigm from competition to collaboration.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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Your response is totally relevant, not just about AI. But in other matter, I want to get your take on before we conclude this interview, which is the student outcome. Youth help a lot of students. According to your website, over 68,000 from low-income backgrounds are expected to graduate by 2025. That's a significant achievement and an important KPI.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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Now, given our discussion about AI, technology, and the job market, it's clear that the type and nature of jobs are changing rapidly. Ultimately, we go to college to get a job upon graduation. So, outcome for UIA or any school isn't just about graduation. It's about helping students achieve better life outcomes through education.

Chief Change Officer

#218 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part Two

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From graduation to employment, this transition from learning to earning is crucial. In terms of UIA, what have you done to help students move from education to employment? Perhaps is there something currently in place or part of your future vision? Can you share with us what's happening at this stage?

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

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We'll discuss the resistance to change because of poorly designed processes and how improving these processes led to much greater acceptance. We'll talk about the importance of empathy, curiosity, and ownership in driving change. We'll also cover how AI is reshaping education and the challenges institutions face in integrating this technology.

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

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Speaking of delivering outcome, I recall from one of your recent speeches that you mentioned people are not actually resistant to change. They resist poorly designed processes. Do you have any specific examples where resistance was due to a poorly designed process? And then once the process was improved, you started seeing more and more acceptance?

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I welcome Dr. Bridget Burns from the University Innovation Alliance.

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

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Lastly, we'll explore the crucial transition from education to employment and how her organization is helping students achieve better life outcomes. Sit back and enjoy this unfiltered conversation packed with insights and practical advice. Bridget, welcome. It's been a long time since South by Southwest.

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

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Yeah, empathy, curiosity, and ownership are crucial for change. Like you said, no one really likes change unless it benefits them in some way. It also needs to generate collective benefits. People often ask, why does change? How can we make things better? Why does my contribution matter in this case or that case? How can I help? Maybe I can help more than you expected.

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

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Ownership isn't just about being informed or notified. It's about contributing to the evolution of the change and being responsible for the outcome. If the outcome isn't as good as expected, how can we work together to make it better? This sense of ownership, this power of ownership is so impactful.

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

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Yes, the world has changed so much and so quickly in the past couple of years. We'll deep dive into many of those changes in your space, higher education. But first, I always start with the guest. The focus is on your change journey over time. So let's begin with that.

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

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Bridget and I met at South by Southwest when we were on the same judging panel for startups in education technology. That was a time before COVID. Many changes have occurred ever since. Bridget has navigated these changes firsthand in higher education.

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

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So you're now leading a university innovation alliance focused on improving graduation outcomes for students from low-income families. This mission ties back to your own background. You've worked within the system for a long time. You've seen the problems, experienced the frustrations, and reached a point where you decided this is it. You shifted the perspective from competition to collaboration.

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

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How did you go about convincing these 11 schools, their presidents and administrations to work together? How did the lobbying process unfold? It must have been like an entrepreneur pitching for investment. How did you make it happen?

Chief Change Officer

#217 Dr. Bridget Burns: Changing Higher Ed from Turf Wars to Teamwork — Part One

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She's now leading a university innovation alliance focused on improving graduation outcomes for students from low-income families, a mission tied closely to her own background. In this episode, we'll explore how she convinced 11 schools to work together shifting the paradigm from competition to collaboration.

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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I see you as the chief change officer behind all the change leaders you work with, guiding them to maximize the success of their initiatives. But as the founder and CEO of your own firm, You're also managing change within your own organization, including hiring, scaling, and evolving as you grow. So how do you approach change management within your own firm?

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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Do you bring in independent consultants to guide the process? Or do you rely on your own expertise to lead and execute these changes? What does change look like from your side of the table?

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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I call this walk the walk and talk the talk leadership. I would like to bring you back and talk more about change. But next time, it will be on video. We're launching the YouTube channel very soon. So after the holidays, please come back, Nelly. Thank you very much for your time today. Yeah, that sounds great. We'll be happy to. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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you've had the unique experience of living and working across Europe, Asia, and now the US, which brings with it an incredible range of perspectives. Given your background and your exposure to diverse clients, I'm curious, how do you see cultural differences play out when it comes to people's reactions to change?

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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Even the concept of change itself, whether it is a mindset shift or a full-scale transformation, can vary dramatically across regions. Have you noticed any significant differences or similarities in how these cultures approach and perceive change? And how do you adapt your solutions to help clients tackle those cultural nuances more effectively?

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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Originally from Europe, she spent years in Asia, especially in Singapore, working across cultures. Now based in US, Nellie is the founder and CEO of Tiger Hall, a tech-driven platform helping organizations navigate change more effectively. This is part one of a two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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When we first met, you told me some intriguing insights from your experiences. specifically why certain change initiatives fail while others succeed. He pointed out that there are common pitfalls that lead to failure and that understanding can uncover valuable opportunities to set the stage for success. Could you share with us some of those common reasons for failure?

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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Maybe you've seen recurring patterns, or perhaps you can recall specific examples without naming names of how these failures played out. And on the flip side, what approaches have you found to be especially effective in laying the groundwork for a successful change initiative?

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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In these episodes, we'll dive into navigating cultural differences across three regions, why most change initiatives fail, and how to set up for success. If you've ever struggled with change, whether in your career, company, or life, this series is for you. Let's get started. What triggered you to start this company in the very first place?

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm joined by Nellie Wartoff, someone I like to call the chief change officer behind change leaders.

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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Yeah, like you said, human nature is universal. Fear, ego, emotions, and office politics exist everywhere, regardless of culture, gender, or age. My friend's story about working in a big bank in Asia captures a common sentiment that is frustration about change management tools or processes that feel imposed rather than embraced.

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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She mentioned how the software forced employees to fit into its framework rather than adapting to their needs. And the feedback process, she described it as a formality where no one feels safe or motivated to speak the truth, just filling in responses for the sake of it. That sense of disengagement is palpable.

Chief Change Officer

#165 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part Two

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I'm curious, from your perspective, have you encountered similar resistance in your work? How do you ensure that tools or processes don't just check the box for change, but actually engage and empower the people they are meant to serve?

Chief Change Officer

#164 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part One

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I like what you said about identity is so true. Many of us, whether we realize it or not, we are in some kind of identity crisis. You see it all the time. People giving themselves titles like CEO when they've just started a venture. or crafting these polished personal brands on social media that don't always align with their real actions or true values.

Chief Change Officer

#164 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part One

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It's like they're trying to create this facade, but underneath, they've lost the direction. They are part of a herd mentality. whether it's in their career or even in knowing who they are. And that ties directly to resilience, like you said. It's about holding on to something real, something solid. It's not just about revenue, growth percentages, and flashy titles.

Chief Change Officer

#164 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part One

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It's about asking, what have I learned? Who have I met? How have I grown? So with that in mind, let's talk about your venture, Tiger Hall. Tell us as if we know nothing about it. What's the story behind this company? What problem are you solving? Who are you solving it for? And how are you tackling it?

Chief Change Officer

#164 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part One

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I'm so happy to be here. Nelly and I share at least one thing in common, which is extensive experience in Asia. Originally from Europe, Nelly spent a significant amount of time in Singapore and still maintains strong connections with clients and contacts in Asia. Now, she's based in the US, bringing together a wealth of cross-cultural experiences.

Chief Change Officer

#164 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part One

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So you're running a tech platform, a software?

Chief Change Officer

#164 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part One

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In part two tomorrow, Nellie will continue sharing her story of starting Tiger Hall, how she navigates the cultural differences across three regions, and why most change initiatives fail, and how to set up for success. If you've ever struggled with change, whether in your career, company, or life, this series is for you. Come back and join us tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#164 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part One

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If you like what you heard, don't forget subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, Take care.

Chief Change Officer

#164 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part One

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Before we dive into those experiences and insights, Nellie, let's start with your story. Not the typical job interview introduction, but a deeper dive into your journey. Where are you originally from? What brought you to Asia? How did those experiences lead you to move to LA and take on the work you are doing now? Let's begin there.

Chief Change Officer

#164 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part One

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Two weeks ago, I interviewed a guest who described himself as a change addict. That phrase stuck with me. When you mentioned being a risk taker and not following a standard playbook, choosing to carve your own path, it reminded me of that mindset. It also explains why you do what you do now, which we'll dive into shortly. You and I are not the type to settle in a comfort zone

Chief Change Officer

#164 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part One

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When everything seems calm and everyone around us says, why change? Everything is just fine. For us, it's not about comfort. It's about growth, progress, and doing things differently, better. While others may not fully understand, we see opportunities where they don't, And we create our own paths forward. That's why I come up with the term called growth progressive.

Chief Change Officer

#164 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part One

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I call my show a space designed for growth progressives. People stay in their comfort zones, still seek growth, but they follow a traditional framework, a standard playbook. Those I call growth. growth conventionalists. But people like us, we push boundaries. We explore the uncharted, take risks, and figure things out as we go. That's what being a growth progressive is all about.

Chief Change Officer

#164 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part One

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Would you see yourself that way?

Chief Change Officer

#164 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part One

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You describe yourselves as adventurous, rustic, gross, progressive, someone who doesn't follow the standard playbook. Before starting Tiger Hall, you worked in headhunting. Can you tell us more about your experience in that world?

Chief Change Officer

#164 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part One

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Originally from Europe, she spent years in Asia, especially in Singapore, working across cultures. Now based in US, Nellie is the founder and CEO of Tiger Hall, a tech-driven platform helping organizations navigate change more effectively. This is part one of a two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

#164 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part One

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Were there any pivotal moments, maybe a major change, a bold transition or a risk you took that shaped your journey or influenced your decision to build something entirely your own?

Chief Change Officer

#164 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part One

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You described the fast-paced nature of your work. Those 7 to 11 days filled with constant demands. I can feel the drive and dedication you had during that time. I can relate to that, having been in a similar environment during my corporate days at Standard & Poor's. Back then, covering the Asia region meant working 9 to 12 hours. Not kidding. Even on weekends.

Chief Change Officer

#164 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part One

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But like you, I found this fast-paced and creative problem-solving extremely fulfilling. It wasn't just hard work. It was engaging and rewarding. But with that level of immersion comes stress. sometimes the kind that can weigh you down. In today's world, resilience has become almost a necessity. In your case, how did you build resilience to stay focused and keep moving forward?

Chief Change Officer

#164 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part One

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Whether in your personal or professional life, What approach or practice help you push through tough times and maintain balance?

Chief Change Officer

#164 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part One

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In these episodes, we'll dive into navigating cultural differences across three regions, why most change initiatives fail, and how to set up for success. If you've ever struggled with change, whether in your career, company, or life, this series is for you. Let's get started. Nelly, good afternoon to you in Los Angeles. Welcome to the show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Thank you.

Chief Change Officer

#164 Change Fatigue? Tigerhall CEO Nellie Wartoft Has the Cure — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm joined by Nellie Wartoff, someone I like to call the chief change officer behind change leaders.

Chief Change Officer

#163 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part Two

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Robert, we've got a lot of good stuff today in our interview. Any final message you'd like to share with the audience?

Chief Change Officer

#163 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part Two

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I like your quote. without implementation is just a nice conversation. Thank you so much, Robert.

Chief Change Officer

#163 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#163 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part Two

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If you feel stuck in your current workplace, it's not necessarily your fault. Often, it's just a misalignment of values. Don't bend your values to fit in. Instead, find a place and a tribe whose values resonate with yours. That's where true happiness and success lie. Let's dive in. My follow-up question is about what happens after we identify our values.

Chief Change Officer

#163 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part Two

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Even if we genuinely figure out and believe in them, whatever those values are, like honesty, humanity, the next step is the hardest, practicing them consistently. How do you advise your clients to implement the values in daily life? For businesses, this could be challenging, but equally difficult for individuals. Even with the best intentions, staying mindful and consistent isn't easy.

Chief Change Officer

#163 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part Two

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How do you suggest we monitor and sustain our actions to align with our values? Talk is cheap. I believe talk and talk and walk the walk matters when it comes to implementation of values. If I were your client asking, we've identified my values. What do I do next? How would you guide me?

Chief Change Officer

#163 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part Two

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To that CEO, I may have seemed incompetent, but I knew exactly why I had to leave so quickly. It was a major clash of values. I believe in being true and ethical in both words and deeds, while he thrived on a man-made facade of showmanship and hypocrisy. Knowing my values made the decision clear. This experience ties directly to today's guest. Robert Mercier.

Chief Change Officer

#163 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part Two

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Do values change over time with new experiences and perspectives?

Chief Change Officer

#163 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part Two

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As you were sharing, I couldn't help but think. is not just about the different stages of our lives or the roles we play. For example, I transitioned from corporate life to entrepreneurship, moving from a world of abundant resources to one where I'm spending my own money testing ideas and navigating uncertainties. Big changes like these influence our values,

Chief Change Officer

#163 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part Two

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Now, one could argue that if I value honesty, it should stay constant regardless of my circumstances. True, but even the interpretation or perception of honesty evolves over time. As I play new roles and build up different experiences, I found that how I uphold honesty adapts For example, with certain people or situations, I might feel the need to stand firm in my values.

Chief Change Officer

#163 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part Two

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But with others, especially those who don't operate, honestly, I might decide it's not worth engaging or holding them to the same standard. It's not about abandoning my value. but recognizing when and how to apply it. This evolution, I think, speaks to how our brains collect data and adjust over time. Sometimes is a conscious recalibration.

Chief Change Officer

#163 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part Two

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Other times is our minds engaging in what I call self-justification. helping us rationalize our actions in ways that align with what we want to believe. So when values may shift, the interpretation and application of those values change as we grow and learn.

Chief Change Officer

#163 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. A few years ago, I joined a growing venture as the chief people officer. It lasted just six weeks.

Chief Change Officer

#163 Life GPS: Robert MacPhee on Values-Based Living — Part Two

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He's the author of Living a Values-Based Life and the creator of the leadership model called Excellent Decisions. In this two-part series, we'll dive into what values really mean, why they matter for leading fulfilling careers and lives, and why figuring out our values can be challenging. We'll also explore how to make our values visible and sustainable in a world that's constantly changing.

Chief Change Officer

#88 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work Is Not a Strategy—It’s a Hostage Negotiation

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So how can Wayne and his team provide solutions as remote and hybrid work models continue to change shape? Let's find out. Thank you for having me. This is really exciting, Vince. Wayne, let's start with a bit of your background. How does your past experiences make you the perfect fit to write several books about long-distance leadership and communication for leaders?

Chief Change Officer

#88 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work Is Not a Strategy—It’s a Hostage Negotiation

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This interview feels super timely, especially with Amazon CEO announcing that starting in 2025, corporate staff will return to a five-day work week. There's been a lot of buzz around this. So far, the reaction has been mostly negative. Some people say it's the end of remote work. Others say they will quit over it. What's your personal take on this?

Chief Change Officer

#88 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work Is Not a Strategy—It’s a Hostage Negotiation

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Or let's imagine if Amazon invited you to help with this transition, how would you apply your leadership models to this situation? Maybe you can give us a quick overview of your models and how they could fit into Amazon's latest development?

Chief Change Officer

#88 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work Is Not a Strategy—It’s a Hostage Negotiation

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Here's my personal experience. Except for the first few years of my corporate life, most of my career has involved a good degree of remote or hybrid work. I've worked with colleagues and supervisors scattered across different locations. So I got used to working with people across time zones, staying up late or waking up early to make it work.

Chief Change Officer

#88 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work Is Not a Strategy—It’s a Hostage Negotiation

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I've also experienced the evolution of technology from working without a BlackBerry, then with a BlackBerry, and later moving on to other devices. now as an entrepreneur to work with people from all over. I've noticed that in the US, remote work has become a very contentious issue. Whereas here in Asia or in Hong Kong is a different story. Hong Kong is a dense, highly populated city.

Chief Change Officer

#88 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work Is Not a Strategy—It’s a Hostage Negotiation

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And the concept of remote work doesn't carry the same weight. Many people just head back to the office as the living spaces here are typically smaller than in the U.S. For those with families or children, the office actually becomes the preferred place to get work done.

Chief Change Officer

#88 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work Is Not a Strategy—It’s a Hostage Negotiation

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Thank you.

Chief Change Officer

#88 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work Is Not a Strategy—It’s a Hostage Negotiation

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What exactly does long-distance leadership mean? How would you define it?

Chief Change Officer

#88 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work Is Not a Strategy—It’s a Hostage Negotiation

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Today, I'm sitting down with Wayne Turmal to dive into a crucial topic, long-distance leadership, in an era where communication technology is rapidly evolving for both workers and leaders. Yes, you heard that right. Long-distance leadership, not long-distance relationships.

Chief Change Officer

#88 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work Is Not a Strategy—It’s a Hostage Negotiation

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How have these changes helped or disrupted the way we lead and manage teams? In other words, how have you seen long-distance leadership evolve? What changes have you noticed in terms of how it works, how fast it's changing, and the direction it's heading?

Chief Change Officer

#88 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work Is Not a Strategy—It’s a Hostage Negotiation

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But just like with any relationship, maintaining, nurturing, and fixing long-distance leadership is far from straightforward. This conversation couldn't be more timely. When we recorded this episode, Amazon's CEO had just announced their RTO return to office policy for 2025. And so far, the media narrative surrounding it hasn't been exactly positive.

Chief Change Officer

#88 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work Is Not a Strategy—It’s a Hostage Negotiation

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You've released a second edition of this book. Why now? What's changed since the first edition came out in 2018?

Chief Change Officer

#88 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work Is Not a Strategy—It’s a Hostage Negotiation

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#154 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Two

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Over the years, you've worked with so many people and have seen firsthand how they tell the stories and craft the narratives. So what's the worst story you've ever heard?

Chief Change Officer

#154 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Two

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For you to be where you are now, living the life you want and helping others do the same, you must have transformed your own narrative from a difficult place to a much better one. Before we ask the next question, I'd love to hear if you're open to sharing. How you managed to break free from a narrative that was holding you back?

Chief Change Officer

#154 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Two

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How did you go about breaking it down and then recomposing it into something much more empowering?

Chief Change Officer

#154 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Two

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In this three-part series, we'll journey through Chris' experiences in three stages. Yesterday in part one, we explored his expertise in helping businesses craft compelling corporate story and understand the connection between story and narrative. Today in part two, We'll look at storytelling for personal transformation as Chris shares some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard.

Chief Change Officer

#154 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Two

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Absolutely. The quality of the output is directly tied to the quality of what you put in. The better the input, the more authentic and accurate the outcome. That makes perfect sense. Now, let's lighten things up a bit. You've told me about the worst story you've ever heard. Let's flip the script. What is the best story you've come across so far?

Chief Change Officer

#154 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Two

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He will also open up about his own mental health challenge. Then in part three, He'll introduce tools we can use to develop our own stories and narratives. And here's a personal confession. I told him one of his exercises might just make me cry. I'll also be sharing my own experience with another exercise. highlighting both its challenges and insights.

Chief Change Officer

#154 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Two

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I love what you said about real, real stories, about the struggles, the pains, the real journeys that people experience. And I totally agree. And that's exactly what I do on this show. Authentic stories resonate deeply because they reflect the full spectrum of life, not just the highlights.

Chief Change Officer

#154 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Two

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So for those listening who might not have direct access to professional guidance, what can they do to craft and shape their own stories? Whether they are in career transition, facing personal challenges, or just feeling stuck, what would you suggest? as essential steps for creating a story that truly resonates with who they are.

Chief Change Officer

#154 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Two

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Just now, we looked at storytelling for personal transformation. As Chris shared some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard. He also opened up about his own mental health challenges. Then tomorrow, in part three, he will introduce tools we can use to develop our own stories and narratives. And here is a personal confession. I told him one of his exercises might just make me cry.

Chief Change Officer

#154 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Two

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I'll also be sharing my own experience with an other exercise highlighting both its challenges and insights. Come back and join us tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Thank you very much.

Chief Change Officer

#154 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Two

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So let's dive into the second chapter of Chris' story. So far, we've covered a lot about narrative and storytelling in a business context. But as you mentioned earlier, Narrative can also play a powerful role at an individual level for leaders, for people in career transitions, or even entrepreneurs building a new venture.

Chief Change Officer

#154 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Two

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My next question naturally is, how do we apply narrative and story to individual situations? Could you walk us through some examples to help illustrate this?

Chief Change Officer

#154 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Two

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Through these stories, we dive into hindsight, insights, and foresight for you, the progressive-minded listeners who crave change. Whether you're navigating a career shift a personal transformation like health challenges or driving change in your organization or community, there's something here for you. Today's episode has a unique twist.

Chief Change Officer

#154 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Two

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It sounds like you are visualizing each story or Lego brick as a piece of who you are, such as experiences, skills, moments, and memories you've collected over the years. Maybe you've filled a specific narrative with those bricks, a structure you've told others and taught yourself for a long time.

Chief Change Officer

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By working with someone like you or learning your method is like I'm reorganizing those bricks in a new way, rearranging them, to create a fresh, evolved narrative. So even though people might say, wow, this is the whole new Vince, still me, using the same foundational pieces, I'm just combining them differently. Highlighting new connections and themes is like building a new structure.

Chief Change Officer

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But L3Ps is part of my story. Just reimagine.

Chief Change Officer

#154 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Two

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My own sense of self-awareness has grown over time. Now, I talk to different people, like entrepreneurs, who say, Oh, I know myself better than anyone else. And they have a lot of confidence in their own self-awareness. But telling our own story, crafting our narrative, or even deciding which breaths to use and how to erase them isn't that easy because we all have blind spots.

Chief Change Officer

#154 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Two

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So my question for you is, what are some common blind spots or barriers that make telling our own story or building self-awareness so challenging? And why is it helpful to bring in someone like you to help with this process?

Chief Change Officer

#154 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Two

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I'm interviewing a storytelling expert to share his own story. My guest, Chris Hare, is a strategic narrative advisor and coach for companies like Amazon and Microsoft, guiding leaders and executives with his approach called Atomic Storytelling. His method breaks down complex stories into their cool, resonant elements.

Chief Change Officer

#154 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. If you've been listening to my show, you know I bring guests from all corners of the world to share their stories.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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I can see why the legal mindset resonates with you and me. It's such a perfect metaphor for building a life, a career, even a podcast that's uniquely mine. You're not just piecing together blocks. You're creating something with purpose, using elements that feel authentic to you.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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Just like how each brick contributes to a structure, every experience, every skill, every choice you make adds to your bigger picture. And just like a true master builder, you're following your own playbook, assembling a vision that's completely your own. Nina, I love how you've tied together all these elements, the successful timeline, the legal mindset, and the reverse resume.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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For anyone listening, whether you're facing a career transition, feeling stuck, and simply preparing for change, These tools can really help you navigate that journey. Thank you so much, Lena. Thank you for sharing your story and your wisdom.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. These days, we talk a lot about resilience. We can discuss the psychology of it all day long. But who actually walks the walk and talks the talk when it comes to resilience?

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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And instead of staying down, she jumped into technology, starting from scratch, and reinvented herself yet again. Yesterday, in part one of our conversation, we explored Nina's journey, her training, her tryouts, and her setbacks. Then today in part two, we'll explore the tools Nina has developed over the years to help others rise above their challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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Tools like the reverse resume and successful timeline. We are not talking about your typical resume or conventional ideas of success. We are going beyond that. So let's begin this incredible journey with Nina. Absolutely. And I think that's a great point. For anyone listening, the takeaway here is to think outside the box when it comes to your skills and experience.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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We often limit ourselves to what we have always done or the industry we know, but those same skills can often apply in ways we wouldn't initially expect. In my own experience, A guest on the show, an executive recruiter, once told me I would meet a great executive recruiter myself. At first, I was surprised. Recruiting wasn't something I've ever considered.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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But she pointed out that my ability to support talent, connect with people, and bring the right voices onto the show demonstrated qualities that could be valuable in her industry. So, just like your own story, it's about being creative and open-minded when exploring new directions. Sometimes it takes an outside perspective to see what we are really capable of.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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So you've moved into technology, built a new version of yourself, and now you're out there as a solo entrepreneur, as an author, as a speaker. It's amazing to see how your career has evolved. As we're talking about transitions and career paths, resumes often come up. Traditionally, resume is seen as an advertisement, a highlight reel of achievements.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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But you introduced me to the concept of a reverse resume. Could you walk us through what that is and how it might help those who are considering a change or currently navigating a transition? I think it could be a powerful tool to help open up minds and see new possibilities.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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Professional athletes. Today, I'm sitting down with Nina Sossaman Pope, a former professional gymnast, who started her journey at about four years old and went on to join the U.S. gymnastic team. In her own words, gymnastics is a perfect example of resilience. You literally fall down and get back up all day every day as you learn new skills.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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Yes, this isn't just a single page. It's more like a notebook, something dynamic that we keep updating. It can serve us as a reminder, especially in those moments when we are feeling down, discouraged, or unsure. As entrepreneurs, there's always something happening, some challenge or setback. But when you can look back at your progress, it's a powerful reminder that you've overcome so much.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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It's just another bump in the road, not a showstopper. Just keep moving forward. Don't let it derail you.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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Exactly. It's like you said, a mix of all your past achievements and challenges, marking different points in time, But the other side is blank, representing the future, open for you to shape. It's all about how you want to connect those dots and create your path forward.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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Is that the successful timeline you mentioned to me before?

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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Yes, exactly. That's the successful timeline. is a way to look at your life journey as a series of pivotal moments.

Chief Change Officer

#270 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: From Olympic Dreams to Pink Slips—and Back Again — Part Two

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That mindset became part of Nina's DNA, and it carried her through some incredible twists and turns. From the heartbreak of not making the Olympic team to leaving the sport for good after an injury, she faced one identity crisis after another. But she didn't stop there. Nina built a successful journalism career that spent 17 years only to be let go despite being a beloved news anchor.

Chief Change Officer

#399 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part Two

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How do you ensure that tools or processes don't just check the box for change but actually engage and empower the people they are meant to serve?

Chief Change Officer

#399 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part Two

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I see you as the chief change officer behind all the change leaders you work with, guiding them to maximize the success of the initiatives. But as the founder and CEO of your own firm, you're also managing change within your own organization, including hiring, scaling, and evolving as you grow. So how do you approach change management within your own firm?

Chief Change Officer

#399 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part Two

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Do you bring in independent consultants to guide the process? Or do you rely on your own expertise to lead and execute these changes? What does change look like from your side of the table?

Chief Change Officer

#399 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part Two

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I call this walk the walk and talk the talk leadership. I would like to bring you back and talk more about change, but next time it will be on video. We're launching the YouTube channel very soon. So after the holidays, please come back, Nelly. Thank you very much for your time today.

Chief Change Officer

#399 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#399 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm joined by Nellie Wotoff, someone I like to call the chief change officer behind Change Leaders.

Chief Change Officer

#399 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part Two

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When it comes to change, a lot of it goes beyond technology. It's ultimately rooted in human behavior and cultural nuances. you've had the unique experience of living and working across Europe, Asia, and now the US, which brings with it an incredible range of perspectives.

Chief Change Officer

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Given your background and your exposure to diverse clients, I'm curious, how do you see cultural differences play out when it comes to people's reactions to change, Even the concept of change itself, whether it is a mindset shift or a full-scale transformation, can vary dramatically across regions.

Chief Change Officer

#399 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part Two

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Have you noticed any significant differences or similarities in how these cultures approach and perceive change? And how do you adapt your solutions to help clients tackle those cultural nuances more effectively?

Chief Change Officer

#399 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part Two

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You told me some intriguing insights from your experiences, specifically why certain change initiatives fail while others succeed. You pointed out that there are common pitfalls that lead to failure and that understanding can uncover valuable opportunities to set the stage for success. Could you share with us some of those common reasons for failure?

Chief Change Officer

#399 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part Two

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Originally from Europe, she spent years in Asia, especially in Singapore, working across cultures. Now based in U.S., Nellie is the founder and CEO of Tiger Hall, a tech-driven platform helping organizations navigate change more effectively. This is part one of a two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

#399 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part Two

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Maybe you've seen recurring patterns, or perhaps you can recall specific examples without naming names of how these failures played out. And on the flip side, what approaches have you found to be especially effective in laying the groundwork for a successful change initiative?

Chief Change Officer

#399 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part Two

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In these episodes, we'll dive into navigating cultural differences across three regions, why most change initiatives fail, and how to set up for success. If you've ever struggled with change, whether in your career, company, or life, this series is for you. Let's get started. What triggered you to start this company in the very first place?

Chief Change Officer

#399 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part Two

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Fear, ego, emotions, and office politics exist everywhere, regardless of culture, gender, or age. My friend's story about working in a big bank in Asia captures a common sentiment, that is, frustration about change management tools or processes that still imposed rather than embraced. She mentioned how the software forced employees to fit into his framework rather than adapting to their needs.

Chief Change Officer

#399 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part Two

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And the feedback process, she described it as a formality where no one feels safe or motivated to speak the truth, just filling in responses for the sake of it. That sense of disengagement is palpable. I'm curious, from your perspective, have you encountered similar resistance in your work?

Chief Change Officer

#398 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part One

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I like what you said about identity. It's so true. Many of us, whether we realize it or not, we are in some kind of identity crisis. You see it all the time. People giving themselves titles like CEO when they've just started a venture. or crafting these polished personal brands on social media that don't always align with their real actions or true values.

Chief Change Officer

#398 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part One

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It's like they're trying to create this facade, but underneath, they've lost the direction. They are part of a herd mentality. whether it's in their career or even in knowing who they are. And that ties directly to resilience, like you said. It's about holding on to something real, something solid. It's not just about revenue, growth percentages, and flashy titles.

Chief Change Officer

#398 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part One

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It's about asking, what have I learned? Who have I met? How have I grown? So with that in mind, let's talk about your venture, Tiger Hall. Tell us as if we know nothing about it. What's the story behind this company? What problem are you solving? Who are you solving it for? And how are you tackling it?

Chief Change Officer

#398 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part One

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Thank you, I'm so happy to be here. Nelly and I share at least one thing in common, which is extensive experience in Asia. Originally from Europe, Nelly spent a significant amount of time in Singapore and still maintains strong connections with clients and contacts in Asia. Now, she's based in the US, bringing together a wealth of cross-cultural experiences.

Chief Change Officer

#398 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part One

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So you're running a tech platform, a software?

Chief Change Officer

#398 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm joined by Nellie Wotoff, someone I'd like to call the chief change officer behind Change Leaders.

Chief Change Officer

#398 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part One

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In part two tomorrow, Nellie will continue sharing her story of starting Tiger Hall, how she navigates the cultural differences across three regions, and why most change initiatives fail, and how to set up for success. If you've ever struggled with change, whether in your career, company, or life, this series is for you. Come back and join us tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#398 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part One

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#398 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part One

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Before we dive into those experiences and insights, Nellie, let's start with your story. Not the typical job interview introduction, but a deeper dive into your journey. Where are you originally from? What brought you to Asia? How did those experiences lead you to move to L.A. and take on the work you are doing now? Let's begin there.

Chief Change Officer

#398 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part One

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Two weeks ago, I interviewed a guest who described himself as a change addict. That phrase stuck with me. When you mentioned being a risk taker and not following a standard playbook, choosing to carve your own path, it reminded me of that mindset. It also explains why you do what you do now, which we'll dive into shortly. You and I are not the type to settle in a comfort zone

Chief Change Officer

#398 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part One

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When everything seems calm and everyone around us says, why change? Everything is just fine. For us, it's not about comfort. It's about growth, progress, and doing things differently, better. While others may not fully understand, we see opportunities where they don't. and we create our own paths forward. That's why I come up with the term called growth progressive.

Chief Change Officer

#398 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part One

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I call my show a space designed for growth progressives. People stay in their comfort zones, still seek growth, but they follow a traditional framework, extended playbook. Those I call growth conventionalists. But people like us, we push boundaries, we explore the uncharted, take risks, and figure things out as we go. That's what being a growth progressive is all about.

Chief Change Officer

#398 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part One

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Would you see yourself that way?

Chief Change Officer

#398 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part One

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You describe yourselves as adventurous, rustic, gross, progressive, someone who doesn't follow the standard playbook. Before starting Tiger Hall, you worked in headhunting. Can you tell us more about your experience in that world?

Chief Change Officer

#398 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part One

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Were there any pivotal moments, maybe a major change, a bold transition, or a risk you took that shaped your journey or influenced your decision to build something entirely your own?

Chief Change Officer

#398 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part One

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Originally from Europe, she spent years in Asia, especially in Singapore, working across cultures. Now based in US, Nellie is the founder and CEO of Tiger Hall, a tech-driven platform helping organizations navigate change more effectively. This is part one of a two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

#398 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part One

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You described the fast-paced nature of your work, those 7 to 11 days filled with constant demands. I can feel the drive and dedication you had during that time. I can relate to that, having been in a similar environment during my corporate days at Standard & Poor's. Back then, covering the Asia region meant working 9 to 12. Not kidding, even on weekends.

Chief Change Officer

#398 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part One

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But like you, I found this fast-paced and creative problem-solving extremely fulfilling. It wasn't just hard work. It was engaging and rewarding. But with that level of immersion comes stress. sometimes the kind that can weigh you down. In today's world, resilience has become almost a necessity. In your case, how did you build resilience to stay focused and keep moving forward?

Chief Change Officer

#398 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part One

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Whether in your personal or professional life, What approach or practice help you push through tough times and maintain balance?

Chief Change Officer

#398 Nellie Wartoft: Global Fix—Change Management Without the Migraine — Part One

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In these episodes, we'll dive into navigating cultural differences across three regions, why most change initiatives fail, and how to set up for success. If you've ever struggled with change, whether in your career, company, or life, this series is for you. Let's get started. Nellie, good afternoon to you in Los Angeles. Welcome to the show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#82 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Two

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From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition, to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shares how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In the next episodes, we'll explore the learning required for transformation, why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skills decking is the future.

Chief Change Officer

#82 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This is a three-part series with Colin Selvidge.

Chief Change Officer

#82 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Two

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I kind of agree or disagree with what you just said. Lifelong learning is about the attitude, in my opinion. Lifelong learning isn't just about acquiring new knowledge. It's about figuring out how you learn best. Some people thrive in classroom settings or in-person workshops, while others prefer self-paced digital formats.

Chief Change Officer

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And finally, in part three, we'll tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Buckle up, this one is a ride. Like you said, one of the threats running through your experience is change, and strategy You've worked with so many firms and organizations, guiding them through their transformations, so you must have seen countless business cases unfold.

Chief Change Officer

#82 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Two

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The methods vary, but the goal is the same, which is to keep growing, to keep learning. When it comes to skill stacking, I see it as something deeper. you mentioned is about purposefully merging diverse skills to solve complex challenges, and I think you're right. What's often missing isn't the means to learn. We have more access than ever to tools, training, and knowledge.

Chief Change Officer

#82 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Two

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The gap lies in connecting the dots. between those skills and leveraging them in meaningful ways to multiply the impact. In my view, we are living in a tool economy, tool, T-O-O-L. Everything is about the tool, whether it's ChatGPT today, Google yesterday, or whatever the next hot thing will be. The mindset is, If you have a problem, there's a tool for that. Need a solution?

Chief Change Officer

#82 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Two

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Just grab a hammer, a screwdriver. What is the problem? Most of the time, those tools are just solving service-level symptoms, not addressing the deeper underlying issues. It's like putting a Band-Aid on a cup without treating the infection. Sure, the immediate problem looks solved, but the root cause persists, and people end up repeating the same mistakes.

Chief Change Officer

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I see this pattern a lot, especially among knowledge workers. They buy into the idea of lifelong learning, sign up for courses, pay for certifications, and stack up all these skills. but they don't actually go anywhere with them. Why?

Chief Change Officer

#82 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Two

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Because the key isn't just acquiring skills, it's in connecting them, applying them to real-life scenarios, case by case, and solving problems with them in an integrated manner. So the missing piece is less about technical skills and more about human skills, What most people call solved skills. Problem solving, critical thinking, emotional intelligence, communication.

Chief Change Officer

#82 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Two

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These are the connective tissue that make skills stacking impactful. Without them, you're just collecting tools in a toolbox. You don't know how to use effectively. That's where I think the future of lifelong learning needs to focus. Not just teaching new skills, but on helping people build the connections between them and apply them in meaningful, impactful ways.

Chief Change Officer

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It's not about the tools themselves. It's about what you build with them.

Chief Change Officer

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What have you learned from these consulting projects and organization change initiatives that could apply to individual situations? Are there lessons from these business cases that also resonate on a personal level? especially when we face dilemmas or crossroads in our own lives.

Chief Change Officer

#82 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#82 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Two

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In part one, the first episode, we'll dive into Colin's fascinating journey as a self-proclaimed change addict turned change guru. Colin's career spans continents, cultures, and industries, seven countries lived in, seven more seconded to, and projects in over 70 nations.

Chief Change Officer

#82 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Two

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I can totally relate to your Canadian example. I've had a similar experience myself. We can chat more about it offline. But eventually, it led to me leaving that company. If I think about it in a more personal context, like within a family, change isn't just about one person. It's a group decision that can lead to challenges too. For example,

Chief Change Officer

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When I used to help younger professionals plan their MBA career paths, many of them would ask me, Vince, should I apply to this school or that school? Should I study in this city or another city? Often, these decisions weren't just about them. They were married, so the decision had to include their spouse. My answer to them was, this isn't just about you. What does your husband or wife think?

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Have you discussed whether it will mean long distance for two years? Will they move with you? If they do, will they be able to work? If not, what happens then? That's where the tension often starts. One partner wants to change, but the other doesn't, or they see the change differently. It creates conflict, and that's not unlike what happens in a business setting.

Chief Change Officer

#82 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Two

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One stakeholder might push for a big transformation, while others hesitate or resist because their interpretation of change is different. So yes, I think that dynamic applies across contexts, personal or professional.

Chief Change Officer

#82 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Two

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From organizational transformation to personal reinvention, he has mastered the art of embracing change and applying those lessons to life. In this conversation, Colin unpacks his unique perspective on change. How throwing himself into the unknown led to unparalleled growth and insight.

Chief Change Officer

#82 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Two

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Actually, you have so many degrees that people often ask me, Vince, are you collecting degrees? I usually laugh it off and say, no, I have three. And I took each one very seriously. I don't even bother explaining why I pursued two MBAs anymore. But looking at you, Colin, you have even more. Would you consider yourself a lifelong learner? I imagine you have some strong opinions on that term.

Chief Change Officer

#82 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Two

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A lot of people lean on lifelong learning when they are at the crossroads or want to make a change in their lives. They fall back on education, upskilling, retooling, whatever the buzzword of the day might be. But you've shared some interesting ideas with me about skill stacking and how that might offer a more impactful approach. So what do you think of lifelong learning as a concept?

Chief Change Officer

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How do you see it evolving and where does skill stacking fit into the equation?

Chief Change Officer

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But without it, scalability becomes a challenge. How does HAPI navigate this blend? How do you manage that balance between using technology to scale solutions while still preserving the essential human element that truly makes a difference?

Chief Change Officer

#260 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. who couldn't use a bit more happiness? This episode and the next dives deep into what it means to find joy and resilience in both work and life.

Chief Change Officer

#260 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part Two

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In this two-part series, she shares her journey of resilience, why she joined Happy Companies, and how she's working to enhance employee experience using technology, but without losing the touch, the human touch. In our last episode, we focused on Risha's personal story and career transitions.

Chief Change Officer

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It makes perfect sense. Let's conclude our conversation with a quote that you shared with me last time. The quote is this. Maybe the journey isn't so much about becoming anything. Maybe it's about unbecoming everything that isn't really you. So you can be who you were meant to be in the first place. I love it because it captures the essence of personal growth and transformation.

Chief Change Officer

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Richia, as someone who has walked this path of becoming and unbecoming, I'd love for you to share your reflections on this concept How can listeners, whether they are in a corporate setting, going through personal challenges or simply feeling stuck, embrace becoming and unbecoming, quote unquote, to break free and start their own journey towards happiness?

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What advice can you offer to help them begin to unlock fulfillment and real change in their lives?

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Today, we'll explore her role at Happy Companies and her vision for transforming the workplace, balancing tech innovation with genuine care for people. Let's get started and find some happiness. Great! Let's dive into happy companies. To kick things off, can you give us an introduction to the firm? What exactly does happy focus on and what's your role within the firm?

Chief Change Officer

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We only have one life and it's unpredictable. So make each day count. Absolutely. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

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Then from there, we'll explore the different aspects of the happy experience and what it really means to build a happy quote-unquote company.

Chief Change Officer

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I'm thrilled to introduce Rishia Cardiff, the VP of Partnerships at Happy Companies. Happy Companies is a venture focused on building happier, healthier workplaces. Rochelle brings over 20 years of experience in people management across major brands like Best Buy, Starbucks, and Microsoft. And she's deeply passionate about talent development and employee experience.

Chief Change Officer

#260 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part Two

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Absolutely. I can see how your background makes you an incredible asset for a firm like Happy. When someone like you, with over 20 years in corporate America, joins the team, it's not just about the skills you bring. It's also about the invariable, unique insights you've gained from first-hand lift experience.

Chief Change Officer

#260 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part Two

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You've seen and navigated the pain points of the people function in large organizations, which position you perfectly to innovate solutions that can make a difference genuinely. So with all of that expertise and perspective, what is your specific role at HAPI?

Chief Change Officer

#260 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part Two

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As we all know, bureaucracy, corporate politics, and constant changes like layoffs and digital transformation can make it tough for employees to thrive and survive. Richier herself has navigated intense transitions. leaving a corporate role at Microsoft to pursue entrepreneurship, experiencing the loss of her mother, facing divorce, and raising her first child.

Chief Change Officer

#260 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part Two

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I totally understand where you're coming from. On one side, it's exciting to see technology enabling people-first solutions like Happy to reach and support so many lives. On the other hand, I must confess my skepticism about balancing the technology with the human touch. Solving people-centered challenges cannot solely rely on technology. When we do, we risk dehumanization.

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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One of those layers is happiness, which can be an emotion, but also an approach to leadership and management. before we dive into your work with Happy Companies. I know you've experienced some major transitions yourself. Moving from a large corporation into a new venture is a big leap in itself. But on top of that, you faced some personal challenges along the way.

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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Could you share what that journey was like? And how did you find your grounding to move forward even stronger?

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. who couldn't use a bit more happiness? This episode and the next dives deep into what it means to find joy and resilience in both work and life.

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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In this two-part series, she shares her journey of resilience, why she joined Happy Companies, and how she's working to enhance employee experience using technology, but without losing the touch, the human touch. In today's episode, we'll focus on Rishia's personal story and career transitions. On Tuesday, part two, we'll explore her role at Happy Companies,

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Living in the present is not just a saying. It's truly a way of being. When we let go of the constant worry about what's next and really ground ourselves in what's happening now, every moment feels richer, more meaningful,

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And like you said, it's not about being overly dramatic or anxious about what could happen tomorrow, but rather about appreciating what we have right here, right now. It's the small things, picking up your son, making dinner, enjoying a little downtime, that could mean so much when we approach them mindfully. That idea of the present being a gift really resonates with me too.

Chief Change Officer

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I love that colorful panda quote for a reason. It's simple, but so profound. When we live in the now, we allow ourselves to fully experience life, and that's what makes it all worthwhile.

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Just now, Rishia shared... honestly about her own personal journey and career transitions. On Tuesday, we'll explore her role at Happy Companies and her vision for transforming the workplace, balancing tech innovation with genuine care for people. Join us again on Tuesday and find yourself some happiness. Until next time, take care.

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and her vision for transforming the workplace, balancing tech innovation with genuine care for people. Let's dive in and find some happiness. Rishia, welcome to Oshua. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Good evening to you.

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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You spend over 20 years in corporate America with some powerhouse names. Best Buy, Starbucks, and Microsoft, all in different industries. Could you walk us through a bit of that journey? How did your role and approach evolve across these big firms, especially since you've always been focused on people management and leadership?

Chief Change Officer

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You've worked at big names like Best Buy, Starbucks, and Microsoft, each with their own well-defined structure, policies, and, dare I say, bureaucracy. I can relate because during my 15 years in large corporations, mainly in finance, I experienced a similar environment. On the one hand, as an employee, I appreciated the structure, the resources, and the weight that comes with a big brand.

Chief Change Officer

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But when it came to handling people issues, especially from the employee's side of things, I often felt disconnected from HR. Many times, it felt like they were more focused on enforcing policy rather than truly helping employees. that KPIs seemed more aligned with executing company policies rather than supporting employee needs.

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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I'm thrilled to introduce Rishia Cardiff, the VP of Partnerships at Happy Companies. Happy Companies is a venture focused on building happier, healthier workplaces. Rochelle brings over 20 years of experience in people management across major brands like Best Buy, Starbucks, and Microsoft. And she's deeply passionate about talent development and employee experience.

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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Given your extensive experience in people function within large companies, I'd love to hear how you managed this balance. How did you reconcile your personal passion for putting people first with the reality of representing and implementing firm policies, which sometimes don't always feel like they are in the workforce's best interest?

Chief Change Officer

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The people function is crucial, but it's also uniquely challenging. Unlike tech, policy, or finance, You can't just apply a formula or a quick fix to people issues. There are so many layers, emotions, personalities, motivations, incentives, and politics, all of which make it complex to navigate.

Chief Change Officer

#259 Rahshea Cardiff: From Starbucks to Startups—Serving Joy at Work – Part One

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As we all know, bureaucracy, corporate politics, and constant changes like layoffs and digital transformation can make it tough for employees to thrive and survive. Richier herself has navigated intense transitions. leaving a corporate role at Microsoft to pursue entrepreneurship, experiencing the loss of her mother, facing divorce, and raising her first child.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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So what you're suggesting is managing both the highs and the lows, the setbacks and successes really comes down to perseverance, right? I remember when you moved from Facebook or Meta to Tapest. which was called OYO. OYO, originally from India, a travel tech company. That was a fairly tough period of time. It was no joke.

Chief Change Officer

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Tell me, how did you tap into your perseverance to navigate the company through the early days of COVID, then the Tokyo Olympics postponement, and then now back to what we might call normal?

Chief Change Officer

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And as a traveler, I can't get enough of the Japanese hospitality. In this episode, I'm talking with Ryota Tanasaki, the president and CEO of Tapest, who is innovating the Japanese hospitality industry. Ryota and I were MBA classmates at Chicago Booth. Since graduation, he's faced some fascinating yet unexpected career transitions.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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You used the word perseverance. And often leaders like to use another buzzword, resilience. I totally get the concept as I've had to practice resilience myself over many years. But as a company leader, how do you impart this mindset, this resilience to your team? I'm not talking about operations or technology resilience. I'm talking about people, the human beings around you.

Chief Change Officer

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You might be incredibly resilient yourself. But if your team doesn't share that sense of resilience, it won't be reflected in the team, in the culture as a whole. Then the word resilience would just be a buzzword. So what's your approach to fostering resilience when it comes to building and managing your team?

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. We fly all the way from US to Tokyo, Japan. I've always felt a special connection to Japan.

Chief Change Officer

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For those unfamiliar, Tapest was originally part of a joy venture with SoftBank in 2019, with the headquarters in India. It was rebranded and localized as Tapest around 2022, with Ryota stepping up as the CEO. Tebby means truffle in Japanese, as you can imagine, as successful as his appointment sounded. This appointment came during a very challenging time.

Chief Change Officer

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So that's about the intrinsic motivation, the sense of mission, the sense of action. What else?

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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What you call astrology, I would say is a pathway. You or the investors have the vision, you execute it. But the people around you, they follow you. So in order to follow you, yes, they have a reason, that intrinsic motivation you've mentioned, but then you tell them, well, that's how we're going to do it. You call the strategy, you call the pathway, then you engage stakeholders.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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The employees, of course, one of them, investors, partners, customers. It's a multi-stakeholder development and management process. What's your third thing?

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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Yes, that is leadership by example. I would also like to see this as you getting closer to your customer. You really want to learn about the situation, the problems. And then you show to your staff how you win accounts, how you solve problems. If they're smart enough, they observe how you do it. And then they follow you. They take some of your best insights, the best lessons, and then execute.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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It's also a kind of quality management so that you can train up your staff to deliver. Let's extend on this topic of leadership by example. Leader, one kind of leader, which I admire, is called servant leader. You lead by serving. Another kind is you lead by coaching.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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So some of the best leaders I've worked for in my career life, they coach me on the side, make me become a better person, better leader. Now, I know that outside of office work, you teach marketing, social media strategy at one of the business schools in Japan. Share with me about your teaching experience as a faculty member.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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Leaders are like coaches, right? They're always helping others to learn and grow. Speaking of which, are there any books or resources that really changed the game for you? Maybe something you recommend to our listeners to help inspire them just as much as it did for you?

Chief Change Officer

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postponement of the Tokyo Olympics game and the COVID situation, both of which rocked the travel industry. Over the next 20 minutes, Ryota will share not only his own career transformation, also how tapest has evolved during an incredibly challenging period for travel. I'll attach the press release about the company's background in the show notes for those interested.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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I haven't actually read the book High Growth Handbook myself. But what you just said reminds me of something I do fairly often. I'm not big on texting or using social media because I prefer writing things down by hand. There's something about the process of writing. It involves a lot of thinking, reflecting, and analyzing.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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By the time I've written something out, I've already worked through a lot of the information in my head. And I also find that Even if I haven't figured out the problem, this process of writing, as I'm doing it, the answer comes through more naturally.

Chief Change Officer

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Speaking of which, remember in our Leadership Capital class taught by Linda Ginzel, the social psychologist at Chicago Booth, she talked about how our brains can trick us into rationalizing or justifying our thoughts too quickly. She said, suggested that to think clearly we should write things down, not just to type it out, actually write it down by hand in its rawest form.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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That way, you can come back to it later, maybe a day or even a week later, and see exactly what you were thinking at that time. It really helps you work through your ideas and find solutions. Clayton Christensen. Yes, he's been my favorite author for the longest time. Sadly, he passed away around the start of COVID. That book you mentioned, The Innovator's Dilemma, is absolutely incredible.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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Without further ado, let's welcome Ryota Tanasaki.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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But there's another one of his that I love, which is how will you measure your life? I highly recommend it to all my listeners, no matter what role you're in or what job you're doing. Anyways, thank you so much for your time today, Ryota. I'm really looking forward to our next conversation. I hope it won't be over a virtual setup next time.

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Instead, let's aim to be sitting next to each other, enjoying some beer and good food in Tokyo. Thanks again.

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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When I was starting out, I loved my friends heading off to business school with big dreams of becoming CEO one day. The plan always seemed pretty straightforward. Get an MBA first, then join one of the biggest consulting firms, McKinsey, BZG, to tackle a bunch of business challenges across different industries.

Chief Change Officer

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Then maybe at some point, they launch their own business or start climbing corporate ladder somewhere big, become the CEO, CFO, CEO somewhere. For them, MBA first, consulting next. But you kind of flipped the script a bit. You spent five years in one of the biggest corporations in Japan in a functional role in sales and marketing.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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then went into management consulting and stayed there for over a decade. Later, pursued MBA to get, I would say, some kind of extra edge. Now, before we jump into your experiences at Tapest, I'm really curious about your consulting days. Could you tell us about one of those projects? Maybe one that stands out as particularly memorable? Or that gave you some deep insights?

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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My first trip overseas with my family took us to Osaka, Nagoya, and Tokyo when I was just 9 years old. Later, during my first year at Yale MBA, I joined the first-ever study trip to Japan, where 15 of us explored Japan's business culture, visiting companies like Shiseido, Toyota, NTT Docomo, and the Japanese government, including the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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I spent two years with you at Chicago Booth as classmate, yet I've never asked you the next question. I'm going to ask you now, and you give me your honest answer. What actually triggered you to get an MBA at Chicago Booth at that point in time?

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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Ryota, as you were sharing your story, I did a quick Google search. Actually, three searches in about 10 seconds. I typed in change career at 30. I got about 2 billion results. Then I searched change career at 40. I got over 1 billion results. Finally, I entered change career F50. I found over 1.5 billion results. So altogether, roughly 4.5 billion results in 10 seconds about change career.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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I haven't done any other keyword searches. I'm sure if I go deeper, I'll find more interesting insights. So what does this search mean? It shows that at certain stages of our lives, at certain age, we are either compelled or forced to change careers, or we have a strong desire for change in today's job market.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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I would argue that we should embrace this change and be prepared to initiate the change on our own terms. In your case, you felt insecure. Some might call this a midlife crisis. I prefer to see it as a positive sense of crisis or a constructive insecurity. Why is it positive? Because feeling insecure drives you to take action. It pushes you to improve your security. It increases your chances.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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You fight for better job prospects. You move out of your country. You move out of your comfort zone. You went for an MBA degree. You network with people from different industries and countries. This expands not only your horizons, but also your opportunities, turning your sense of insecurity into a positive force in your life. Would you agree with my assessment?

Chief Change Officer

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I even wrote a paper about the Japanese economy and banking industry after the trip. Between 2017 and 2019, I've been involved in ACTEC Japan, an international conference on the future of education technology, where I've been featured as a speaker for three years. As a business professional, I'm always amazed by Japan's culture of craftsmanship and its blend of tradition with modernization.

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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You talk a lot about business strategy that has been a major theme in your career life. Would you say you are equally strategic about every career move you've made so far?

Chief Change Officer

#203 Ryota Tanozaki: From Pouring Drinks to Pouring Innovation into Japan’s Hotels

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How do you handle both setbacks and successes? People looking at your career might say, wow, you're incredibly successful. But we all know that behind every success, there are tons of challenges you've overcome. In fact, a lot, a lot of challenges. a lot of setbacks to support one instance of success. What is your philosophy for managing both the ups and the downs?

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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So how can Wang and his team provide solutions as remote and hybrid work models continue to change shape? Let's find out.

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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This interview feels super timely, especially with Amazon CEO announcing that starting in 2025, Corporate staff will return to a five-day work week. There's been a lot of fuss around this. So far, the reaction has been mostly negative. Some people say it's the end of remote work. Others say they will quit over it. What's your personal take on this?

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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Or let's imagine if Amazon invited you to help with this transition, how would you apply your leadership models to this situation? Maybe you can give us a quick overview of your models and how they could fit into Amazon's latest development?

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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This is really exciting, Vince. Wayne, let's start with a bit of your background. How does your past experiences make you the perfect fit to write several books about long-distance leadership and communication for leaders?

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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Here's my personal experience. Except for the first few years of my corporate life, most of my career has involved a good degree of remote or hybrid work. I've worked with colleagues and supervisors scattered across different locations. So I got used to working with people across time zones, staying up late or waking up early to make it work.

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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I've also experienced the evolution of technology from working without a BlackBerry, then with a BlackBerry, and later moving on to other devices. now as an entrepreneur to work with people from all over. I've noticed that in the US, remote work has become a very contentious issue. Whereas here in Asia or in Hong Kong is a different story. Hong Kong is a dense, highly populated city.

Chief Change Officer

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And the concept of remote work doesn't carry the same weight. Many people just head back to the office as the living spaces here are typically smaller than in the U.S. For those with families or children, the office actually becomes the preferred place to get work done.

Chief Change Officer

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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What exactly does long-distance leadership mean? How would you define it?

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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Today, I'm sitting down with Wayne Turmal to dive into a crucial topic, long-distance leadership, in an era where communication technology is rapidly evolving for both workers and leaders. Yes, you heard that right. Long-distance leadership, not long-distance relationships.

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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How have these changes helped or disrupted the way we lead and manage teams? In other words, how have you seen long-distance leadership evolve? What changes have you noticed in terms of how it works, how fast it's changing, and the direction it's heading?

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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For just like with any relationship, maintaining, nurturing, and fixing long-distance leadership is far from straightforward. This conversation couldn't be more timely. When we recorded this episode, Amazon's CEO had just announced that their RTO return to office policy for 2025. And so far, the media narrative surrounding it hasn't been exactly positive.

Chief Change Officer

#202 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

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You've released a second edition of this book. Why now? What's changed since the first edition came out in 2018?

Chief Change Officer

#123 From Curtain Calls to Business Cases: Waverly Deutsch’s Path from Theatre Historian to Chicago Booth Professor

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In the field of business education, dominated by discussions of numbers, strategies, formulas, and models, all the logical stuff, the concept of love has never surfaced in any curriculum or textbook I've come across. Yet, she bought it into our discussions on angel investing.

Chief Change Officer

#123 From Curtain Calls to Business Cases: Waverly Deutsch’s Path from Theatre Historian to Chicago Booth Professor

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It makes you wonder, how does love fit into building a business, advancing a business career, and fulfilling our life's legacy? With that in mind, I've put together a three-part series called Love & Logic, featuring Waverly as our special guest. She will be sharing and exploring from three perspectives how the intricate balance of love and logic shapes our career decisions and life choices.

Chief Change Officer

#123 From Curtain Calls to Business Cases: Waverly Deutsch’s Path from Theatre Historian to Chicago Booth Professor

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While listening to you, I felt like we were having coffee together. Your story had me nodding, laughing, and utterly fascinated. You present this blend of strong analytical thinking with a very human social side. Considering your career shifts and external pressures you faced, you mentioned some kind of luck or perhaps karma. It got me thinking.

Chief Change Officer

#123 From Curtain Calls to Business Cases: Waverly Deutsch’s Path from Theatre Historian to Chicago Booth Professor

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How aware are you when it comes to making what you call calculated decisions? This ties into our theme of love and logic, the heart and the head. When you reach a critical point in your career path, how much do you lean on your analytical side? I'm not just talking about money or job titles, but evaluating the broader prospects of a position, diving deep into the industry,

Chief Change Officer

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How much of it is a calculated assessment? Or perhaps, is it more about a gut feeling that tells you, hey, this is the right move? So, do you consider yourself primarily analytical when making career decisions? Or do you tend to go with the flow? Or maybe you have your own unique approach or system for navigating these decisions. How does that work with you?

Chief Change Officer

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There are two other words that perfectly capture the essence of love and logic. They are heart and head. Can you recall a pivotal moment or a situation when you were torn between following your heart or your head? What ultimately guided your decision then?

Chief Change Officer

#123 From Curtain Calls to Business Cases: Waverly Deutsch’s Path from Theatre Historian to Chicago Booth Professor

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Today's episode zooms in on Waverly's personal journey, the love and logic that have guided her career path and experiences. In our next episode, which is about her being a teacher and expert guide, we'll dive into a major chapter of her career, 22 years at Chicago Booth.

Chief Change Officer

#123 From Curtain Calls to Business Cases: Waverly Deutsch’s Path from Theatre Historian to Chicago Booth Professor

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There, she taught and coached a sharply focused group of highly logical talents, all deeply engaged in the passion for innovation, change, and entrepreneurship. From that structured academic environment, she has transitioned to her current role as a coach for a more diverse group of entrepreneurs. In the third part of our series, we'll come full circle and focus back on Waverly herself.

Chief Change Officer

#123 From Curtain Calls to Business Cases: Waverly Deutsch’s Path from Theatre Historian to Chicago Booth Professor

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No prying at work is simply unprofessional. That was the norm in all the places I've worked and studied, both in the US and abroad. But let's be real. Whether you are a man or a woman, we are human, and humans have emotions. Crying is simply one way we express those emotions.

Chief Change Officer

#123 From Curtain Calls to Business Cases: Waverly Deutsch’s Path from Theatre Historian to Chicago Booth Professor

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I believe that as our views on gender roles continue to evolve, it's becoming clear that we also need to rethink our attitudes towards showing emotions in the workplace.

Chief Change Officer

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There's a piece of the love and logic puzzle I haven't talked about much yet. So far, I've discussed following your heart as a standalone element. But our hearts, they are heavily influenced by our peers, the people around us, and the social environment we're in. Take my MBA classmates. For example, among my classmates, I am the outliner.

Chief Change Officer

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Most of them are in finance, CEO, CFO, senior bankers, senior management consultants, managing partner at PE and VC houses. If I had stayed long enough at certain companies, I would have ended up in those roles as well. But I made different choices along the way, guided by both heart and head.

Chief Change Officer

#123 From Curtain Calls to Business Cases: Waverly Deutsch’s Path from Theatre Historian to Chicago Booth Professor

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The reason I bring up my own story at this juncture is that I've noticed many people struggle not just with the emotional versus logical decision-making, also with not seeing role models who reflect their aspirations. There's also often a deep-seated fear of judgment and fear of failure. These fears influence our hearts and ultimately impact our decisions. I'm curious about your experience.

Chief Change Officer

#123 From Curtain Calls to Business Cases: Waverly Deutsch’s Path from Theatre Historian to Chicago Booth Professor

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She's now more than a coach. She's an entrepreneur herself, actively building her own new venture. is a fascinating mix of her ever-changing experiences. Good morning, Wavefully. Welcome to my show. Good morning, Vince. I'm thrilled to be here. Usually, I kick off an interview with a little introduction about my guest. Today, I'd like to switch things up a bit.

Chief Change Officer

#123 From Curtain Calls to Business Cases: Waverly Deutsch’s Path from Theatre Historian to Chicago Booth Professor

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How much have external factors like peer pressure, societal judgments, or even social norms influenced you You mentioned earlier that you aren't bound by gender norms, but what about other societal expectations? How have you managed to filter out the noise and make your laws of change along your career path?

Chief Change Officer

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We began today's interview by exploring Waverly's personal journey, intricate blend of love and logic that has guided her from her undergraduate days all the way to retirement. To our listeners, I hope today's episode inspire you to integrate your own love and logic in whatever paths you choose to pursue.

Chief Change Officer

#123 From Curtain Calls to Business Cases: Waverly Deutsch’s Path from Theatre Historian to Chicago Booth Professor

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In our next episode, which is the second part of our three-part series, we'll dig deep into a significant chapter of Waverly's career, her 22 years at Chicago Booth. There, she taught and coached a selected group of highly logical talents, undergrads, full-time, part-time, and executive MBAs from around the world. All of Tom were passionate about innovation, change, and entrepreneurship.

Chief Change Officer

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Yet, despite their brilliance, these individuals faced their own challenges. Waverly has learned to tailor her coaching approach, sometimes offering a bigger dose of love, other times amping up the logic. How exactly did she manage this? Stay tuned, we'll explore that in the next episode. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#123 From Curtain Calls to Business Cases: Waverly Deutsch’s Path from Theatre Historian to Chicago Booth Professor

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I was browsing through the website of your new venture, Wiseheart, and a specific sentence really stood out to me. It said, as a young person, I had an enormous love for the theater and a passion for logic. Love and logic, what a fascinating combination. So Waverly, can you unpack that for us? Tell us, who are you really at the intersection of these two worlds?

Chief Change Officer

#123 From Curtain Calls to Business Cases: Waverly Deutsch’s Path from Theatre Historian to Chicago Booth Professor

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As you indicated, that was late seventies and early eighties. There must be very, very few females in your computer science class. How did you navigate this deeply man dominated world?

Chief Change Officer

#123 From Curtain Calls to Business Cases: Waverly Deutsch’s Path from Theatre Historian to Chicago Booth Professor

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She taught one of the standout courses in the Executive program called Building New Ventures. In just a moment, I'll let Waverly introduce herself. But first, I would like to share a memorable memory that really sets her apart.

Chief Change Officer

#123 From Curtain Calls to Business Cases: Waverly Deutsch’s Path from Theatre Historian to Chicago Booth Professor

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One of, sorry, you're saying one of three or four women in the advanced computer science class. Like how many students were in that class?

Chief Change Officer

#123 From Curtain Calls to Business Cases: Waverly Deutsch’s Path from Theatre Historian to Chicago Booth Professor

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Even when I grew up, I'm younger than you by about 10 years, tomboy was still a commonly used term in my generation. Don't forget we're now in June 2024. The month of June is the month of pride. So we are proud of our identities.

Chief Change Officer

#123 From Curtain Calls to Business Cases: Waverly Deutsch’s Path from Theatre Historian to Chicago Booth Professor

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Throughout my extensive MBA studies at both Yale and Chicago Booth, where I completed the full-time and executive programs respectively, I've sat through countless lectures taught by highly intelligent scholars and well-experienced practitioners. Yet, Waverly is the only professor I've encountered who dared to use the word love in a business school classroom.

Chief Change Officer

#123 From Curtain Calls to Business Cases: Waverly Deutsch’s Path from Theatre Historian to Chicago Booth Professor

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Teaching has always been your calling. But I was wondering, during this journey from PhD to teaching, there's something called forestry. I believe you joined this firm and helped it grow from a boutique into a major institution over a couple of years. You joined as employee 20-something, 27, I believe that's what you told me. So with your calling for teaching, with your PhD degree,

Chief Change Officer

#123 From Curtain Calls to Business Cases: Waverly Deutsch’s Path from Theatre Historian to Chicago Booth Professor

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Ten years ago, during the summer term of the Executive MBA program at Chicago Booth, I had the pleasure of meeting today's guest, Waverly Deutsch.

Chief Change Officer

#123 From Curtain Calls to Business Cases: Waverly Deutsch’s Path from Theatre Historian to Chicago Booth Professor

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You could have stayed in the university, building your academic career from assistant professor to associate to a tenure professor, a very well-predicted career path. Then what happened in between? We'll talk about Chicago, your teaching career, 22 years teaching careers in Chicago. But before that, let's talk about what happened in the 90s.

Chief Change Officer

#122 Building People, Not Products: César Couto Ferreira’s Journey from Entertainment to Legacy

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You have to have both elements in order for the economy to grow, to develop. It actually is the golden rule. It actually is a timeless golden rule.

Chief Change Officer

#122 Building People, Not Products: César Couto Ferreira’s Journey from Entertainment to Legacy

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Last question of the day. As a former media executive, what advice would you give to people who are deeply immersed in social media?

Chief Change Officer

#122 Building People, Not Products: César Couto Ferreira’s Journey from Entertainment to Legacy

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#122 Building People, Not Products: César Couto Ferreira’s Journey from Entertainment to Legacy

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Wow.

Chief Change Officer

#122 Building People, Not Products: César Couto Ferreira’s Journey from Entertainment to Legacy

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I think we're looking at something much, much bigger than just a personal transformation. Your three-minute career story is not only your own evolution, but also a pivotal shift in the entire media and entertainment industry, from the analog world to the digital and social media age.

Chief Change Officer

#122 Building People, Not Products: César Couto Ferreira’s Journey from Entertainment to Legacy

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One thing I surely appreciate, and I think you'll echo this, is that working in big corporations, no matter the industry, can be an incredible training ground. The opportunities are massive with a powerful brand. lending prestige to your resume. But at the end of the day, much of what you work on isn't really your own intellectual property.

Chief Change Officer

#122 Building People, Not Products: César Couto Ferreira’s Journey from Entertainment to Legacy

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With that in mind, and considering you moved on back then, I'm curious about your thought process behind this decision. The reason I'm asking is that many of us, as we develop our career paths, face moments that are either expected or completely out of the blue. Each decision, each transition, I believe, is a delicate balance between logic and psychology.

Chief Change Officer

#122 Building People, Not Products: César Couto Ferreira’s Journey from Entertainment to Legacy

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The people are warm, the food is great, the sea and the sky are so blue. I surely want to go back. This episode is like a real-life version of the popular HBO TV series, Secession. I'm sure many of you watched the show. It's not just about a secession war for the top job of CEO within a super wealthy and powerful family, but also about the war in old media versus new media and tech.

Chief Change Officer

#122 Building People, Not Products: César Couto Ferreira’s Journey from Entertainment to Legacy

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You mentioned earlier that while you are trained in science with a very logical mind, you're also very into art, into creative work, into philosophy. So back then, how did you navigate this balance when making career decisions?

Chief Change Officer

#122 Building People, Not Products: César Couto Ferreira’s Journey from Entertainment to Legacy

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Your experience reminds me of the movie, Jerry Maguire. Have you seen it yourself? Your work was essentially a people-first industry. Yet, oftentimes, these very people are treated more like products. And when you truly care about individuals as real humans with lives, worries, emotions, and inevitable endpoints, it changes everything.

Chief Change Officer

#122 Building People, Not Products: César Couto Ferreira’s Journey from Entertainment to Legacy

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Once you delve into the business aspects, as well as the personal connections with these individuals you interact with daily, it creates a profound internal conflict. I think of it as a struggle between two mindsets. Or the usual saying, drama is the reality, reality is the drama.

Chief Change Officer

#122 Building People, Not Products: César Couto Ferreira’s Journey from Entertainment to Legacy

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Artists of change. Yes. Change is an art more than a science. You work in a media industry. It's always about the glamour. You probably do all those places, parties, stores.

Chief Change Officer

#122 Building People, Not Products: César Couto Ferreira’s Journey from Entertainment to Legacy

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Exactly.

Chief Change Officer

#122 Building People, Not Products: César Couto Ferreira’s Journey from Entertainment to Legacy

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Yeah, the wall is right there. It's just right there.

Chief Change Officer

#122 Building People, Not Products: César Couto Ferreira’s Journey from Entertainment to Legacy

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a succession from old money to new money. Since the beginning of the century, Cecil has been involved in this transformation from analog to digital media, from a DJ and TV presenter to an MTV Networks executive, working with Madonna and all the music stars. He's seen the bright and the dark sides of 21st century media and entertainment. Without further ado, let's get into the war.

Chief Change Officer

#122 Building People, Not Products: César Couto Ferreira’s Journey from Entertainment to Legacy

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You've told me before that you're all in for building a legacy. After experiencing the highs and lows of the media and entertainment industry, you've gone on to build ventures and venture ecosystem in Brazil and back home in Portugal. A key highlight, I believe, has been your involvement with the WEB Summit in Lisbon. While Patty Cosgrave might be the face and voice of the summit,

Chief Change Officer

#122 Building People, Not Products: César Couto Ferreira’s Journey from Entertainment to Legacy

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Cecil Coutu Ferreira from Portugal, a beautiful, beautiful country I visited a few years ago to join the Web Summit in Lisbon as a guest and a speaker.

Chief Change Officer

#122 Building People, Not Products: César Couto Ferreira’s Journey from Entertainment to Legacy

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You've played a crucial role at a national level, influencing the government to take a leap of faith in integrating tourism with technology. Share with us your involvement in bringing this major event to the forefront. And looking at the bigger picture, what kind of legacy are you aiming to build that makes you proud?

Chief Change Officer

#320 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part Two

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We talk about what drew her to emergency medicine, how confidence is built through prepping and preparation, and how small practiced behaviors, i.e. micro skills, can shift how we show up under pressure in life and in career. Let's get into it. When I first skimmed through the book, my immediate reaction was ambitious. And I mean that in a good way.

Chief Change Officer

#320 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part Two

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The tips you shared, especially for introverts, really hit home. I'm actually an introvert too. I can look like an extrovert at events or on a podcast, but I've learned to manage my energy and focus it on the conversations that matter. That's my way of practicing self-care. And that's what sets your book apart. Most business books dive straight into strategy. You start with self-care.

Chief Change Officer

#320 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Dr. Risa Lewis, emergency medicine physician, educator, and co-author of the book titled Micro Skills. She's also our first guest in medicine.

Chief Change Officer

#320 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part Two

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And I think that's the foundation of everything. If we don't care for ourselves enough, we can't effectively lead or connect well with others. So I'd love to hear more about that. Why did you choose to begin your book with self-care? What do you want readers to take from that first chapter?

Chief Change Officer

#320 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part Two

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This show is all about making change ambitiously. I've been dying to ask you this. Why combine so many different scenarios and skills into one book? You covered communication, networking, managing of everything and anything. Each of those could easily be its own short book. But you decided to go comprehensive. What was your thinking behind it?

Chief Change Officer

#320 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part Two

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Yes, I've started putting some of these ideas into practice. Today, for example, I stepped out for work, not because I needed groceries, but because I needed fresh air and a mental break. Sleep is still a work in progress, but I'm committed to building a more sustainable routine this year. Going to bed earlier, waking up earlier, so I can stay sharp and energized with all the plans I have in mind.

Chief Change Officer

#320 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part Two

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Before we close, is there anything you would like to add or emphasize as a final takeaway for the audience?

Chief Change Officer

#320 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part Two

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And that's the end for our two-part series on Dr. Reza Lewis. Research showed us that what stays with you isn't just knowledge. It's what you have practiced, reflected on, and done with intention. Whether it's treating patients, teaching ultrasound, or taking the garbage out instead of clearing the table, what matters is showing up on your own terms Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#320 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part Two

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#320 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part Two

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But there's one I really want to highlight, which is polished communication. You've worked in the ER, traveled the world, taught across cultures. You've seen firsthand how core communication is to being human. But today, let's be frank, people barely write. And with AI, some don't even bother writing at all. No real thinking, no real analysis.

Chief Change Officer

#320 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part Two

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In the chapter on polished communication, what would you say are three key pieces of advice you would give to someone early in their career? Things they can do to really nurture and strengthen their communication skills in today's world?

Chief Change Officer

#320 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part Two

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Dr. Lewis knew early on she didn't want to be boxed in by gender roles. she chose a specialty where she could think fast, move freely, and lead in real time. Over the past 25 years, she's worked in trauma base, taught ultrasound across the world, and trained others to stay calm when the room is anything but. In this two-part series,

Chief Change Officer

#320 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part Two

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As you were talking, I kept thinking, this isn't just about email etiquette. I've learned this the hard way in corporate life. Yes, there are technical things like CC or BCC someone, but underneath that, there's an art to it. It's about respect. It's about knowing when to involve someone, when to close the loop, when not to overwhelm people with too much noise.

Chief Change Officer

#320 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part Two

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and when silence can actually feel like exclusion. It's not just about the email, it's about how we treat people. And the more I listen to you, the more I realize thoughtful communication is relationship management.

Chief Change Officer

#320 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part Two

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You are absolutely right. Some bosses want to be CC on everything, even small things. Others get annoyed if you copy them too much. It's not always about the email content. It's about how it's perceived. And that's where the politics come in. Honestly, in my corporate days, I was exhausted not by the work, but by the constant calculation, such as who do I send this to? Who do I copy?

Chief Change Officer

#320 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part Two

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If I get it wrong, even unintentionally, it could be used against me. So it's more than just communication. It's reputation management. It shapes how people see you, how much they trust you, And that ties directly into the next point I wanted to ask you about, which is networking. I don't mean just adding people on LinkedIn. I mean real connection.

Chief Change Officer

#320 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part Two

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When I talk to guests on the show, how do I build enough trust quickly enough so we can have a meaningful conversation? What's your take on that kind of relationship building?

Chief Change Officer

#319 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part One

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We talk about what drew her to emergency medicine, how confidence is built through prepping and preparation, and how small practiced behaviors, i.e. micro skills, can shift how we show up under pressure in life and in career. Let's get into it. Good morning, Dr. Lewis. Welcome to my show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. You are the first medical doctor I host on my show. Thanks for joining me.

Chief Change Officer

#319 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part One

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You not only practice medicine, but you also teach it. How do you feel about the teaching side of your work? Do you enjoy it just as much as being in the ER? Or is there one part you find more fulfilling than the other?

Chief Change Officer

#319 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part One

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Earlier you mentioned that working in the ER gives you both the excitement and the space to explore interests beyond medicine. Is that what led you to write this book called Microskills? Clearly, it's not a medical textbook. It feels more like a business or self-development book. What made you decide to take on this project? What was the thinking behind it?

Chief Change Officer

#319 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Dr. Risa Lewis, emergency medicine physician, educator, and co-author of the book titled Micro Skills. She's also our first guest in medicine.

Chief Change Officer

#319 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part One

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Clearly, you love learning. And writing seems to be your way of learning out loud, not just for yourself, but for others too. Now, when I first skimmed through the book, my immediate reaction was ambitious. And I mean that in a good way. This show is all about making change ambitiously. I've been dying to ask you this. Why combine so many different scenarios and skills into one book?

Chief Change Officer

#319 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part One

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I told you before, becoming a doctor was my childhood dream. I didn't pursue it in the end. But I've always had deep respect for medical professionals. Growing up, I had health issues and spent time in a hospital. So doctors really made a difference in my life. That's why it's such an honor to have you here today. And a big thank you to Chris Hare for connecting us.

Chief Change Officer

#319 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part One

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You covered communication, networking, managing of everything and anything. each of those could easily be his own short book. But you decided to go comprehensive. What was your thinking behind it?

Chief Change Officer

#319 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part One

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That's all for part one. Risa shared how emergency medicine found her. why literature and sociology still shape her work, and how she built her way into teaching ultrasound around the world. In part two, we'll talk more about microskills, the repeatable habits that help you stay grounded when everything around you is spinning. See you there. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#319 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part One

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#319 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part One

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Now you've got this fantastic book called Microskills, which I know isn't written just for doctors. We'll get into that soon, but first let's start with your personal story. Give us an overview of your journey, and then I'll dive into some key turning points in your life and career.

Chief Change Officer

#319 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part One

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So you chose science, and not just any science, but medical science, which, let's be honest, still isn't the most common path for girls. But you went for it. And then within medicine, you chose to specialize in emergency medicine. Why ER? What pulled you towards that particular field?

Chief Change Officer

#319 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part One

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Dr. Lewis knew early on she didn't want to be boxed in by gender roles. she chose a specialty where she could think fast, move freely, and lead in real time. Over the past 25 years, she's worked in trauma base, taught ultrasound across the world, and trained others to stay calm when the room is anything but. In this two-part series,

Chief Change Officer

#319 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part One

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So you really enjoy the action, the unpredictability. Like you said, no two cases are ever the same. With 25 years of experience under your belt, both teaching and practicing, I can't even imagine how many cases you've seen and treated. But that variety, that constant challenge,

Chief Change Officer

#319 Resa Lewiss MD: Micro Skills for Moments That Actually Matter – Part One

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You specialize in ER, you solve urgent problems, and often you save lives. But in your line of work, there are cases where, despite everything, the outcome isn't what you hoped for. Literally, it's life and death. I'm curious, when you were just starting out, still learning and gaining experience. How did you handle those moments?

Chief Change Officer

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Especially when you did everything you could and it still wasn't enough. And looking back now, how did you learn to navigate that emotional weight, staying professional, staying grounded so you could keep showing up Case after case, shift after shift.

Chief Change Officer

#147 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part One

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The first thing that comes to my mind is if I'm being generous and generosity helps me succeed, doesn't that make it selfish? Does generosity leading to success mean there's some hidden self-interest? Is that why you're asking? Yes. If you ask me, selfish usually carries a negative connotation. When we call someone selfish, it's typically not a good thing.

Chief Change Officer

#147 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part One

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So when you mentioned that genuine generosity helps you become more successful, is that selfish? I would say no. I wouldn't use the word selfish. I would call it self-awareness. If I believe in the principle that generosity wins, it becomes part of my attitude and behavior. I'm following my own path based on principles I truly believe in.

Chief Change Officer

#147 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part One

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From the outside, people might think I'm focused on what I want. But it's more about knowing who I am and what I stand for. Maybe some could call that selfish. But I would just call it being clear and committed to my values.

Chief Change Officer

#147 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part One

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We made a two-part series for you. In today's episode, We'll dive into Monty's personal experiences, his definition of generosity, and why he believes so strongly in practicing generosity as a habit. Tomorrow, we'll explore what isn't generous, why practicing generosity can be difficult in today's world, and how to nurture a generosity-centered mindset.

Chief Change Officer

#147 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part One

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I remember seeing the term generosity ROI in your book, meaning generosity's return on investment. We live in a capitalist world, and in business, we are always focused on KPI's financial metrics. But generosity is tricky to quantify. Like you said, don't expect a direct return. So it doesn't fit the typical model of ROI.

Chief Change Officer

#147 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part One

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And if we try to measure or track the cost and return of generosity, it starts to feel less like true generosity. But let's assume we want to monitor it. How do we make sense of this ROI? What does it really mean in the context of generosity?

Chief Change Officer

#147 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part One

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You've mentioned before, when defining generosity, that there's a lot of misconceptions about it in the media. That's one thing. But tell us, why do you think there's so much misunderstanding about generosity in general? What are some of the myths you would like to debunk in this interview? Share with us.

Chief Change Officer

#147 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part One

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If you are still skeptical about how generosity can lead to success, join us for this conversation. We'd love for you to be part of the discussion. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#147 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part One

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Just now, Monty shared his personal experiences, his definition of generosity, and why he believes so strongly in practicing generosity as a habit. Tomorrow, in part two, we'll explore what isn't generous. Why practicing generosity can be challenging in today's world and how to nurture a generosity-centered mindset. Come back for part two. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#147 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part One

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If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#147 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part One

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Yes, I agree with you. In fact, when it comes to leadership, I always describe myself in two ways. First is about walking the walk and talking the talk. Second, I believe in servant leadership. I've been lucky in my corporate career to have worked for bosses who embraced this kind of leadership. They helped me grow, become a better leader, and they made me shine.

Chief Change Officer

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But in my mind, I don't necessarily call this generosity. I still think of it as an exchange of value. As a subordinate, I help achieve business goals, and in return, they support me, hire me, and take pride in recognizing my talents. When I perform well, it makes them look good too. It's not just kindness, it's mutually beneficial and drives business results.

Chief Change Officer

#147 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part One

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So I guess what I'm saying is, I see it as a leadership style, but not necessarily generosity. Now, I'd love to hear your thoughts. What does generosity mean in the context of leadership, especially in the lessons you've learned from your mentor?

Chief Change Officer

#147 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part One

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Like me, she does it because she wants to leave it better for the next person. So who is our guest today? Is Monty Wood, author of the book called Generosity Wins and the former CEO of Opus Agency, a creative branding partner for some of the world's most influential brands.

Chief Change Officer

#147 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part One

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As you were sharing, you brought back some memories of mine from my corporate days. 15, 20 years ago, maybe? A lot has changed since then. We had the credit crisis, then the rise of social media with the iPhone and everything that came with it. Then came COVID and now AI. But it's not just about the technology. It's also about mindset shifts and generational gap.

Chief Change Officer

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By that, I don't just mean the typical you're older, I'm younger kind of gap. It's more than that. Millennials, Gen Z, for example, they've become more vocal. Some of them may be too vocal. Then we got the even younger generation coming in. On the other hand, you've got Gen X, baby boomers. There's so much going on in the world that it feels like we've become less connected in a lot of ways.

Chief Change Officer

#147 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part One

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Technology allows us to connect like how you and I are talking right now. We wouldn't have met if this tech wasn't democratized like it is today. I mean, even a phone call like this used to be very expensive. So yes, we are now connected. But I call this connectivity more than true connection. Because real connection takes time, patience, and effort. For example...

Chief Change Officer

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I always insist on a pre-call with my podcast guests. I want to get to know them and I want them to know me so that when we record, our conversation is more natural. I dedicated that time 30 or even 45 minutes because I genuinely care about making a good show. Now, in that case, is that generosity?

Chief Change Officer

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I'm not expecting anything in return, but at the same time, I know it helps me achieve a certain result. So would you say that is true generosity? Or is it more of a behavior with a specific goal in mind?

Chief Change Officer

#147 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. How many people do you know who actually walk into a public restroom and leave it cleaner than they found it? I do. And so does the wife of our guest.

Chief Change Officer

#147 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part One

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Of course, you want to make an impact. From that angle, I guess you could say it's a form of generosity because I don't really expect anything in return from the listeners. But I do care about that whatever I say or you say or any guest on the show says, has some kind of impact. Even if it's just a minute, a one-minute impact for someone who listens, that would already make me really happy.

Chief Change Officer

#147 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part One

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Monty has worked directly with legends like Mike Benioff of Salesforce, Andy Gross of Intel, Steve Jobs, John Chambers of Cisco, and Andy Jassy of Amazon. From these leaders, his own mentors, and his mother, Monty has learned what generosity truly means, why it matters and how to apply it to life and career to become more successful, happier and healthier. Curious to find out more?

Chief Change Officer

#384 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part Two

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But in their eyes, she isn't being productive, not even trying to do anything meaningful. is not about making big money. It's about learning something, adding value, contributing in some way. But she seems to have taken the idea of not needing a traditional job to the extreme, believing that work itself isn't necessary for her generation.

Chief Change Officer

#384 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part Two

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Now, the reason I bring this up is because your book is titled, Employment is Dead. I understand what you mean by that. I don't misinterpret it. But I can see how some people might. They might take it at face value and think, oh, we don't have to work anymore. We don't need offices, five-day work weeks, or even jobs at all. I don't think that's the message you're trying to send.

Chief Change Officer

#384 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part Two

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So my last question to you is this. Do you really believe employment is dead? And more importantly, what is your true interpretation of that phrase? Whether someone watching this is 15, 25, 35, or 45, How do you want them to understand what you mean so the title doesn't get misinterpreted as something superficial?

Chief Change Officer

#384 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part Two

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In part one, we explore her incredible journey from shaping policy in Washington, D.C. to securing venture capital through a chance encounter at a Starbucks. She shares how risk-taking, adaptability, and breaking the old rules shaped her success. Then in part two, we tackle the future of employment. Why degrees aren't what they used to be? How AI and Web3 are reshaping jobs?

Chief Change Officer

#384 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part Two

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Embrace life stage flexibility with purpose. We need to work. We need to country-build, put in the effort, and build our lives and careers. There are so many different ways to do that now. That's the message. In that sense, employment isn't dead. It's just evolving. The traditional model may be fading, but it's being re-imagined in new and meaningful ways. Absolutely. Deborah, thank you so much.

Chief Change Officer

#384 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. A few days ago, we published a three-part series with George Dream, the co-author of the book, Employment is Dead. But we are not done yet.

Chief Change Officer

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I really appreciate you taking the time for this conversation. And congratulations on the entire journey of putting this book together. If I make it to the U.S., I'll be sure to grab an autographed copy from both of you.

Chief Change Officer

#384 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part Two

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Of course. I'm not Bloomberg. I don't ask cookie-cutter questions. And that's a wrap on this two-part series with Deborah Perry Pistioni. We've torn apart outdated career playbooks, reimagined what work could be, and tackled how both workers and companies must evolve. The question now is, are you ready for what's next? Because the future of work isn't coming. It's already here.

Chief Change Officer

#384 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part Two

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If you found this conversation valuable, share it, rate the show, and let's keep pushing these conversations forward. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#384 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part Two

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And what companies must do before it's too late? And of course, we'll answer the big question. Is employment really dead? Get ready for bold, eye-opening conversation. Let's jump in. I had the privilege of reading through the book before it was published. Now, I'll be honest, I skimmed through a lot of it. Certain chapters really stood out to me, especially the one on credentials.

Chief Change Officer

#384 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part Two

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Before starting my podcast, especially before COVID, I was deeply involved in the learning and education technology space. I was speaking at conferences around the world on the future of work, including South by Southwest. So when you covered credentials, education, and training, that chapter really caught my attention.

Chief Change Officer

#384 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part Two

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Now, looking at one of the quotes from that chapter, he wrote, getting more employers to rethink their degree requirements will take hard work. Employees have grown up in a system where the four-year degree is the proxy, and that's a perception that is risky to do things differently. I completely agree. But the big question is how do we actually change that mindset?

Chief Change Officer

#384 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part Two

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What's your take on making this shit happen?

Chief Change Officer

#384 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part Two

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If I'm hearing you correctly, and I say this aligns with my own perspective as well, some jobs still operate within a value system where having a degree is essential. Take, for example, a two-year MBA. When I was on a call with Josh, I told him, you and I are both beneficiaries of a formal brand name degree.

Chief Change Officer

#384 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part Two

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I went to Harvard Business School, I went to Yale School of Management, and I even earned two MBAs myself. Now, I'm 51, turning 52 soon, which means I grew up in the 70s in a world where the playbook was clear. Study hard, get a degree, work hard in a corporation, climb the ladder. That's success. That was the mainstream and proven belief at the time.

Chief Change Officer

#384 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part Two

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We are doubling down on this conversation. Today, I've invited his co-author, Deborah Perry Pichoni. an entrepreneur, Silicon Valley insider, and best-selling author of the book Secrets of Silicon Valley. Before diving into the world of startups, Debra spent 18 years in Washington, D.C., working in the White House, on Capitol Hill, and as a political commentator for MSNBC, Fox News, and CNN.

Chief Change Officer

#384 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part Two

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And there was nothing inherently wrong with it because it worked in that era. But with the internet and new technologies, the world has changed. We're now exposed to so many more possibilities with different ways to achieve the same goal. if you want to earn a million dollars a year. There are multiple legitimate legal ways to do it.

Chief Change Officer

#384 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part Two

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In the past, one clear path was joining Goldman Sachs, earning a solid salary plus bonuses. And if it was a good year, you would hit that million dollar mark or even more. And that's still a path that works for some people today. But does that mean going to Goldman Sachs is outdated or not trendy anymore? Not at all. It's still the perfect fit for certain individuals.

Chief Change Officer

#384 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part Two

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The same goes for Google, any other top-tier company. It all comes down to finding the best fit for your needs, skills, interests, and strengths. I believe if technology can be open-source, then career development can be open-minded in the same way. In the end, technology is the enabler. It doesn't dictate how we succeed, but it empowers us to choose our own version of success.

Chief Change Officer

#384 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part Two

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So far, we've talked a lot about what we as individuals can do, how we navigate our careers and lives in this new era. But for employers, it's a whole different challenge. In your book, you lay out a full transformation map. And when I saw it, I thought, wow, that's a lot a company can do.

Chief Change Officer

#384 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part Two

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Let's say I'm the CEO of a sizeable company, and you and Josh come to me and say, Vince, there's so many opportunities to rethink and transform your organization. My first reaction would be, great, but where do I start? What would you advise me to tackle first? What's the one thing I absolutely must focus on before everything else?

Chief Change Officer

#384 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part Two

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But everything changed when she moved to Silicon Valley. Instead of politics, power, and division, she discovered a culture built on collaboration, innovation, and risk-taking. That shift led her to build six companies, write multiple best-selling books, and now co-found the Work3 Institute, helping businesses navigate the future of work. We're featuring Debra in a two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

#384 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part Two

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Great. Now, last question of the day. But before I ask, let me share a quick story. A friend of mine has a niece, 27 years old. She still hasn't graduated from college. She's been stuck in school, hasn't worked a single job, not even part-time, not volunteering, not freelancing, not investing, nothing. Her parents, who are middle class, fully support her.

Chief Change Officer

#383 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part One

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While the title is Employment is Dead, if I'm hearing you correctly, this book is really a message to employers, almost a wake-up call With all the new technologies happening, the traditional value chain of employment is being disrupted, whether companies like it or not. And if they don't adapt, they risk losing their best people, whether to solo partnership, competitors, or simply disengagement.

Chief Change Officer

#383 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part One

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Is that the core message you're trying to get across? And is this the primary audience you are speaking to?

Chief Change Officer

#383 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part One

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Sure. Now, I noticed the book includes a story about how you and George met. Two people from different backgrounds who, according to the book, hadn't even met before. Yet somehow, this collaboration just clicked. From your perspective, what was the spark? What made you think, hey, this is someone I need to work with?

Chief Change Officer

#383 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part One

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In part one, we explore her incredible journey from shaping policy in Washington, D.C., to securing venture capital through a chance encounter at a Starbucks. She shares how risk-taking, adaptability, and breaking the old rules shaped her success. Then in part two, we tackle the future of employment. Why degrees aren't what they used to be? How AI and Web3 are reshaping jobs?

Chief Change Officer

#383 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part One

hi everyone welcome to our show chief change officer i'm vince chen your ambitious human host our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world A few days ago, we published a three-part series with George Dream, the co-author of the book, Employment is Dead. But we are not done yet. We are doubling down on this conversation.

Chief Change Officer

#383 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part One

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I imagine there are similarities that made the collaboration work, but also key differences in your backgrounds and experiences that add unique perspectives. Can you share a bit about that, what you each contribute, and how those differences shape the work you're doing together as a partnership?

Chief Change Officer

#383 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part One

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I had the privilege of reading through the book before it was published. Now, I'll be honest, I skimmed through a lot of it. Certain chapters really stood out to me, especially the one on credentials. Before starting my podcast, especially before COVID, I was deeply involved in the learning and education technology space.

Chief Change Officer

#383 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part One

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I was speaking at conferences around the world on the future of work, including South by Southwest. So when you covered credentials, education, and training, that chapter really caught my attention. Now, looking at one of the quotes from that chapter, he wrote, getting more employers to rethink their degree requirements will take hard work.

Chief Change Officer

#383 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part One

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Employees have grown up in a system where the four-year degree is the proxy, and that's a perception that is risky to do things differently. I completely agree. But the big question is, how do we actually change that mindset? What's your take on making this shit happen?

Chief Change Officer

#383 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part One

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That's a wrap for today. We've covered Deborah's incredible journey from DC politics to Silicon Valley startups. and why the old way of working just doesn't cut it anymore. But we're just getting started. In part two, we'll break down the real shift happening in the workforce, why college degrees are losing the grip, and how AI and Web3 are reshaping jobs.

Chief Change Officer

#383 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part One

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and what companies must do before it's too late. Plus, we'll tackle the big question. Is employment really dead or just evolving? Don't miss it. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host.

Chief Change Officer

#383 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part One

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And what companies must do before it's too late? And of course, we'll answer the big question. Is employment really dead? Get ready for bold, eye-opening conversation. Let's jump in. Good morning, Deborah. Welcome to our show. You are the first interview I conduct in the new year. Thank you so much for your time.

Chief Change Officer

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#383 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part One

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You've had such an incredible journey from Washington, D.C. politics to Silicon Valley startups. from entrepreneurship to authoring multiple books, building six companies, and now shaping the future of work. Looking back, do you see a common thread that ties all these transitions together?

Chief Change Officer

#383 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part One

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It sounds like you're someone who's highly observant, sensitive to your environment, and deeply aware of the trends around you. You mentioned your background in journalism, talking to all kinds of people, reading situations, and understanding patterns. That skill set seems to carry over into how you approach opportunities. You spot gaps, see what's missing, and then take action.

Chief Change Officer

#383 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part One

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Whether that's building something from scratch, teaming up with others, or investing in solutions that address those needs. So in a way, your entrepreneurial mindset isn't about business. It's about identifying what needs to be solved and turning that into action, a product, or even a business model. Would you say that's a fair summary?

Chief Change Officer

#383 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part One

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Today, I've invited his co-author, Deborah Perry-Piccioni. an entrepreneur, Silicon Valley insider, and best-selling author of the book Secrets of Silicon Valley. Before diving into the world of startups, Debra spent 18 years in Washington, D.C., working in the White House, on Capitol Hill, and as a political commentator for MSNBC, Fox News, and CNN.

Chief Change Officer

#383 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part One

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You've built and been involved in multiple ventures, which means you've experienced both the highs and the lows, the wins, the setbacks, and everything in between. Looking back, is there a particular failure or challenge that stands out? Something that, despite all your success, really tested you? Maybe at the time, it was frustrating or even painful.

Chief Change Officer

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But in hindsight, it became a lesson you carry with you, something that shaped how you move forward. You've rebounded, you're stronger, you're energized. But is there a moment that, while tough, still holds deep meaning for you?

Chief Change Officer

#383 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part One

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You've been engaged in a lot of interesting endeavors. The current project is Work3 Institute, which you co-founded with George. Leading to this book, Employment is Dead. What was the motivation behind starting the institute? What was the driving force that led you to create it? I guess this goes back to the why. What inspired you to take this path?

Chief Change Officer

#383 Deborah Perry Piscione: From Power Plays to Pay-It-Forward—How Work Got Rewritten — Part One

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But everything changed when she moved to Silicon Valley. Instead of politics, power, and division, she discovered a culture built on collaboration, innovation, and risk-taking. That shift led her to build six companies, write multiple best-selling books, and now co-found the Work3 Institute, helping businesses navigate the future of work. We're featuring Debra in a two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

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One thing I want to add to that, when you talk about why there are 600 people reporting to you and why organizations have six layers of hierarchy, at the end of the day, all comes down to politics and power, and of course, money. More layers mean more justification for higher salaries at the top. That's just how economic incentives, power, and corporate structures work.

Chief Change Officer

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But that's a whole other discussion, one that goes beyond technology, yet still shapes the way employment functions today. Even as the world changes, traditional employment structures are still deeply entrenched, especially for my generation. And even for yours, despite being younger, business schools and corporate environments still reinforce many of these same structures.

Chief Change Officer

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Now, employment isn't disappearing, but its function, nature, and diversity are evolving. The depth and breadth of work are shifting, and that's where technology plays a huge role. So as a closing thought, Josh, you've been a strong advocate for integrating emerging technologies into the workplace. What do you see as the consequences for employers who don't adapt?

Chief Change Officer

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For those who aren't paying attention, who aren't taking steps to evolve how they manage, recruit, and lead, what risks do they face? I'd love to hear your take as the final message to the world on this show.

Chief Change Officer

#382 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part Three

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and certain chapters really caught my attention, especially the ones on talent, skills, credentials, and degrees. You and I, you are from Harvard, I'm from Yale, are both beneficiaries of brand name degrees. In the traditional playbook, that gave us a clear advantage in securing opportunities but with emerging technologies, are degrees becoming less and less relevant and useful?

Chief Change Officer

#382 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part Three

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into the future of work with George Dream. George is a Harvard MBA, a startup founder, and the co-author of the book called Employment is Dead.

Chief Change Officer

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One thing I want to add, I am Gen X. That's the generation between baby boomers and millennials. Older than Gen Z, but still young and energetic. We are the first who transitioned from an analog world to a digital world. I remember learning how to use a calculator, then moving on to Lotus before Microsoft Excel even existed. When I was at Yale for business school, Google was just becoming a thing.

Chief Change Officer

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I'm 51 now, turning 52 in a week. So I've experienced firsthand how technology has evolved, and so have many in my generation. And that brings me to your point about organizations, not just surviving, but thriving. We are in a time where the workforce is more intergenerational than ever. different age groups, different levels of exposure to technology. Some grew up with it.

Chief Change Officer

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Others had to adapt along the way. The question is, how do we make the most of this? How do we create a more inclusive environment that maximizes talent, skills, and purpose? Because in the end, that's what drives business results. That's what fuels performance.

Chief Change Officer

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And for organizations that don't embrace this shift, if they stay rigid, resistant, or unwilling to evolve, they are setting themselves up for negative consequences. So that's my advice. Stay open, stay flexible, and recognize that the workforce is changing because those who don't will be left behind.

Chief Change Officer

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Thank you. And that's a wrap on this series. We've torn down outdated employment models, explored the rise of Web3 and AI, and tackled how businesses must evolve to keep up. The question now is, will companies adapt or get left behind? The future of work isn't coming. It's already here. If you're ready to stay ahead, now is the time to act. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

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If you like what you heard, don't forget subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#382 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part Three

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In your book, you talk about how employers still claim to degree requirements. It's a tough mindset to break. As someone who has benefited from a prestigious degree, just like I have, what's your take? Do degrees still matter? Or is it time for a new way of thinking, working, and doing?

Chief Change Officer

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Most of them came from ordinary backgrounds, no special connections or privileges. And honestly, I was in the same boat. I went to Yale on a scholarship. Now, when people ask me, is an MBA still relevant? I get it. There's a lot of debate, just like with degrees in general. It's about connections, networks, and the brand name of these two-year MBA or law school programs.

Chief Change Officer

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And yes, these programs accelerate learning, especially the soft skills or life skills like communication, critical thinking, and relationship building. But beyond that, the real value is in the people you meet and the deep connections you build over those two years. That's something you can't just replicate by networking on LinkedIn or signing up for an online course.

Chief Change Officer

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It's a different kind of experience. That said, if your goal is purely to learn, some skills. There are so many ways to do that now, many of them more affordable and accessible. I've personally taken online certificates and courses to upskill, building on a traditional education background. Now, going back to your book and the discussion on degree requirements.

Chief Change Officer

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Employers, some of them, are starting to look beyond just degrees. They are using other signals to assess skills and knowledge before making hiring decisions. But the degree requirement itself is still deeply ingrained, not just in the US, but in many countries. So how do we change that? How do we take real action to jailbreak the degree system? What needs to happen to shift the mindset?

Chief Change Officer

#382 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part Three

Yes, you hear it right. That is a very bold statement. But he's got a story to back it up. Across this three-part series, We'll explore why traditional employment models are failing, how emerging technologies like Web3 and AI are reshaping work, and what companies must do to survive.

Chief Change Officer

#382 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part Three

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So far, I've asked you a lot about credentials and education. That's one of my key interests. But in your book, you also introduce this massive Work 3 transformation map. A full framework for how organizations can innovate and leverage emerging technologies. Now, we won't go into all the details today. Maybe we'll save that for a future episode. But I want to ask you this. Let's say I am a CEO.

Chief Change Officer

#382 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part Three

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You and Deborah present me with Despo. You come in as consultants advising my organization on transformation. Where would you recommend starting? Obviously, executing the full roadmap, strategy, concepts, implementation could take more than a year or even longer. But what's the first step, the first major pain point to tackle?

Chief Change Officer

#382 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part Three

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I know it depends on the company, but if you had to pick a key entry point from your roadmap, what would be a strong starting place for any organization looking to make a meaningful shift?

Chief Change Officer

#382 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part Three

We'll also go behind the scenes of George's book, how a cold call turned into a major publishing deal, and why the old ways of managing people just don't cut it anymore. Whether you are an employee, an employer, or just curious about where work is headed, this series will challenge the way you think. I've spent over an hour diving into your book.

Chief Change Officer

#381 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part Two

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So, would it be fair to say that the metaverse, Web3, and all these emerging technologies are essentially bridges, tools that help us redefine the employee experience? Not just in one way, but in ways that actually make sense for our lives, our productivity, our outcome, and our well-being? Would you put it that way?

Chief Change Officer

#381 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into the future of work with George Dream. George is a Harvard MBA, a startup founder, and the co-author of the book called Employment is Dead.

Chief Change Officer

#381 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part Two

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You mentioned that you and Deborah, the co-founder of WorkStreet Institute, worked on this book together with you. I know there's quite a story behind how this book came to be. Can you share that with us here?

Chief Change Officer

#381 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part Two

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How did you get HBR on board with this book? We publish a lot of business books, many from professors, industry leaders, and big-name executives. Of course, Deborah is a leader in her space, and you have your HBS background, but pitching a book idea is never easy. So how did you make the case? What convinced them that this was a book they had to publish? What did that process look like?

Chief Change Officer

#381 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part Two

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How long did the whole book process take? Now you are at the finish line with the launch. But of course, that's really just the beginning of a new chapter. From that initial cold call to getting to this point, how long was the journey? What did that timeline look like?

Chief Change Officer

#381 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part Two

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Yes, you hear it right. That is a very bold statement. But he's got a story to back it up. Across this three-part series, We'll explore why traditional employment models are failing, how emerging technologies like Web3 and AI are reshaping work, and what companies must do to survive.

Chief Change Officer

#381 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part Two

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That makes sense. About 10 years ago, I actually published two books in Chinese, not in English. That's why I never sent you my books. One was with a commercial publisher, and the other was through a university publisher in China. I finished both within two years, and one for Hong Kong, the other distributed at the national level in China.

Chief Change Officer

#381 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part Two

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Long story short, I've always appreciated the depth a book brings. At some point, I love to write one in English. Because a book isn't just a quick e-book or 10-page summary. It holds real thought, deep reflection, and analytical depth. These days, sure, a lot of people use AI tools to generate content. Actually, going through the full process like you did,

Chief Change Officer

#381 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part Two

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building a platform, engaging with an audience, testing ideas, and then rolling out a fully developed book. That's something I truly admire. For that reason, I've spent over an hour diving into your book, and certain chapters really caught my attention, especially the ones on talent, skills, credentials, and degrees. You and I, You are from Harvard. I'm from Yale.

Chief Change Officer

#381 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part Two

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Above beneficiaries of brand name degrees. In the traditional playbook, that gave us a clear advantage in securing opportunities. But with emerging technologies, are degrees becoming less and less relevant and useful? In your book, you talk about how employers still claim to degree requirements. It's a tough mindset to break.

Chief Change Officer

#381 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part Two

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As someone who has benefited from a prestigious degree, just like I have, what's your take? Do degrees still matter? Or is it time for a new way of thinking, working, and doing?

Chief Change Officer

#381 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part Two

We'll also go behind the scenes of George's book, how a cold call turned into a major publishing deal, and why the old ways of managing people just don't cut it anymore. Whether you are an employee, an employer, or just curious about where work is headed, this series will challenge the way you think

Chief Change Officer

#381 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part Two

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George, it's proved that big ideas can come from anywhere. But now, let's get tactical. In the next episode, we'll explore the WorkStreet framework, how companies can actually implement change instead of just talking about it. If you want to know what's next for work, you won't want to miss this. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#381 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part Two

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#380 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part One

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You mentioned that you and Deborah, the co-founder of WorkStreet Institute, worked on this book together with you. I know there's quite a story behind how this book came to be. Can you share that with us here?

Chief Change Officer

#380 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part One

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That's the web for today. We've broken down why traditional employment is crumbling and why companies need to wake up before they lose their best talent. But how do we actually rebuild work for the future? In the next episode, George takes us behind the scenes of his book, Employment Is Dead. from a cold call to a major publishing deal. Don't miss it. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#380 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part One

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#380 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into the future of work with George Dream. George is a Harvard MBA, a startup founder, and the co-author of the book called Employment is Dead.

Chief Change Officer

#380 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part One

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Let's dive right in. First of all, who you really are, what you have done in the past. Then we'll deep dive into different elements of your journey.

Chief Change Officer

#380 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part One

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Yeah, I couldn't agree more about the short-term mindset. I've studied economics, finance, and accounting. And at the end of the day, even with the best intentions, a competent, capable, and purpose-driven CEO, a chief HR officer, or any senior leader still has to balance doing good with making money. They look at the numbers, the bottom line, and all the financial metrics.

Chief Change Officer

#380 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part One

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They ask, how was our accounting income this quarter? What's our cash position? And eventually, they make decisions, sometimes tough ones like cutting jobs. To them, it's ultimately just a number. It feels cold, but that's the reality of how these decisions are made. And yet, in financial reports, you always see the same message. People are our greatest asset.

Chief Change Officer

#380 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part One

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But let's be real, on the financial statements, people are not listed as assets. They are categorized as an expense item on the income statement, not something quantified on the balance sheet that drives revenue and income. So while the message says people first, the decision-making still comes down to numbers. In the end, employees are just HR records sitting in the cloud.

Chief Change Officer

#380 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part One

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Now, I'm not saying this to discredit well-intentioned HR leaders or CEOs. It's just the reality of how businesses operate. Before we get into Wall Street Institute and the solutions you're building for these big challenges, I want to take a step back and talk about your own career journey. You've observed these issues firsthand, and what about your personal experience?

Chief Change Officer

#380 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part One

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When you were fresh off college, studying psychology, working under different leaders and managers, what did that look like for you? Then you went to Harvard for your MBA and learned to be more innovative in your approach. Let's start with your early career. How did your experiences shape the way you see these challenges today and influence the solutions you're working on?

Chief Change Officer

#380 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part One

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Yes, you hear it right. That is a very bold statement. But he's got a story to back it up. Across this three-part series, We'll explore why traditional employment models are failing, how emerging technologies like Web3 and AI are reshaping work, and what companies must do to survive.

Chief Change Officer

#380 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part One

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You started with psychology, then went to business school, and now you are in Web3. That's quite the journey. I'm curious about that transition, not just in the sense of switching jobs, but more about what shifted in your mindset. A lot of people see psychology as a soft skill field and tech as a hard skill domain. So what was it for you? Was there something about Web3 that really fascinated you?

Chief Change Officer

#380 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part One

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Something that made you think, this is the technology that can truly change the world for good? What was the trigger that pushed you into this uncharted territory coming from a psychology background?

Chief Change Officer

#380 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part One

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We'll also go behind the scenes of George's book, how a cold call turned into a major publishing deal, and why the old ways of managing people just don't cut it anymore. Whether you are an employee, an employer, or just curious about where work is headed, this series will challenge the way you think. Good morning, Josh. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. It's very early morning for you there.

Chief Change Officer

#380 Josh Drean: Employment Is Dead—Now Let’s Rebuild It — Part One

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So, would it be fair to say that the metaverse, Web3, and all these emerging technologies are essentially bridges, tools that help us redefine the employee experience? Not just in one way, but in ways that actually make sense for our lives, our productivity, our outcome, and our well-being? Would you put it that way?

Chief Change Officer

#75 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part One

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He's the author of Living a Values-Based Life and the creator of the leadership model called Excellent Decisions. In this two-part series, we'll dive into what values really mean, why they matter for leading fulfilling careers and lives, and why figuring out our values can be challenging. We'll also explore how to make our values visible and sustainable in a world that's constantly changing.

Chief Change Officer

#75 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. A few years ago, I joined a growing venture as the chief people officer. It lasted just six weeks.

Chief Change Officer

#75 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part One

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Dust Free? As in D-U-S-T Dust Free? Yeah.

Chief Change Officer

#75 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part One

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If values are so transformative and essential in shaping behavior and driving success, why do you think most people are unaware of their own values? Is it because they haven't taken the time to reflect? Or is it something deeper, like societal distractions, external pressures, or even a lack of understanding about how to identify values in the very first place?

Chief Change Officer

#75 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part One

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I'd love to hear your perspective on this.

Chief Change Officer

#75 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part One

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If you feel stuck in your current workplace, it's not necessarily your fault. Often, it's just a misalignment of values. Don't bend your values to fit in. Instead, find a place and a tribe whose values resonate with yours. That's where true happiness and success lie. Let's dive in.

Chief Change Officer

#75 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part One

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Absolutely. You've touched on something so critical. Figuring out our values is challenging because, as you said, we've been absorbing others' expectations, whether from parents, schools, peers, or society, like a sponge for years. And when we don't consciously question or explore those imposed values, we can feel stuck or out of place without even understanding why.

Chief Change Officer

#75 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part One

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In the workplace, this disconnect often manifests as frustration, disengagement or being labeled as not a team player. But as you pointed out, is rarely about competence or work ethics. It's about a values mismatch.

Chief Change Officer

#75 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part One

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If we take the time to understand our core values, it not only helps us find better alignment with a company or a team, but also enables us to navigate the environment more strategically we can identify where things resonate and where they don't, which teams and leaders share a similar outlook, and how to bridge gaps when values diverge.

Chief Change Officer

#75 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part One

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This awareness gives us clarity on how to behave, communicate, and even set boundaries, thereby reducing stress and improving fulfillment. Wouldn't you agree?

Chief Change Officer

#75 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part One

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Just now, Robert shared with us what values really mean, why they matter for leading fulfilling careers and lives, and why figuring out our values can be challenging. In Part 2, we'll explore how to make our values more visible and sustainable in a world that is constantly changing and noisy. Come back and join us tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

Chief Change Officer

#75 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part One

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Robert, I'm really excited to dive into the ideas behind your book, not just the content, but also the why behind it. What's the story behind this calling to write a book about value? Before we get there, I'd love to hear about your journey leading up to who you are today and the work you do, which have been shaped by your past, your experiences, your highs, your lows, and your challenges?

Chief Change Officer

#75 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part One

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#75 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part One

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What moments or turning points in your life that brought you to this very stage?

Chief Change Officer

#75 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part One

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By your own definition, what exactly are values?

Chief Change Officer

#75 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part One

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It's such an insightful point. Feeling like we're constantly fulfilling someone else's agenda that don't align with our own goals or values. It is easy to get lost in this sea, isn't it? Values, like you mentioned, can feel like abstract concepts until we truly define them in our lives. Take honesty, for example, is a value that sounds universal, but how we live it might differ vastly.

Chief Change Officer

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Robert, I'd love for you to share some specific values you've examined or highlighted in your work. Maybe ones that stood out or even surprised you in the importance. Walk us through a couple and ideas behind them. How do they resonate in a world where we often feel disconnected from what really matters?

Chief Change Officer

#75 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part One

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To that CEO, I may have seemed incompetent, but I knew exactly why I had to leave so quickly. It was a major clash of values. I believe in being true and ethical in both words and deeds, while he thrived on a man-made facade of showmanship and hypocrisy. Knowing my values made the decision clear. This experience ties directly to today's guest. Robert Mercier.

Chief Change Officer

#75 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part One

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You mentioned that one driving force behind publishing your book was seeing how powerful it is when people figure out the values, align the behaviors with them, and act on them. The results, as you've said, can be extraordinary. Could you share some examples from your coaching experiences? without naming names, of course, that highlight this transformation.

Chief Change Officer

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Stories where someone identified their core values, made changes to align with them, and saw incredible results. I think those examples could inspire and show us what's possible when we live in alignment with our values.

Chief Change Officer

#246 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part Two

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In fact, there's risk in relying too much on technology. For example, collaboration. There are billion-dollar collaboration tools But in some ways, they're actually dehumanizing the way we work together. So at the end of the day, it's not just about having the right tools. It's about keeping humanity at the center, making sure we don't lose the human touch as we build and use digital solutions.

Chief Change Officer

#246 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part Two

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And that brings me to trust. You talk about trust a lot, and I agree with you, it's critical. But right now, trust in the workplace is fragile. Employees don't trust their employers, especially with all the layoffs, disengagement, and burnout. We see things like quiet quitting and mass resignations. So in a world where trust is fading, how do we rebuild it?

Chief Change Officer

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From your perspective, what mindsets or habits help strengthen trust in the workplace? What can leaders do to make trust real again?

Chief Change Officer

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Yeah, some people use another analogy, which is insurance policy. You keep contributing, and at some point something happens, and that's how you're supposed to draw on the policy to cover the downside of that situation.

Chief Change Officer

#246 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are talking about leadership, trust, and why AI still can do what humans do best.

Chief Change Officer

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Yeah. Like you mentioned, so much of what we've talked about comes down to human nature, which is universal. It doesn't matter where you're from, your culture, your background. These workplace challenges exist everywhere. That's actually one of the reasons I created this show. To engage people from all walks of life, from different parts of the world.

Chief Change Officer

#246 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part Two

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I like to call them human intelligence. We live in a world where AI drives the conversation every day. It's about artificial intelligence. But what I've noticed over the past 10 to 15 years is a huge decline in human intelligence. I don't just mean things like empathy or resilience. I'm talking about basic skills such as speaking, writing, listening. We have ears, we have eyes, we have a mouth.

Chief Change Officer

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Because burnout, disengagement, and workplace struggles aren't just happening in the U.S. They are happening everywhere. The difference? In some places, people just don't express it as openly as Americans do. They might not say, I'm quitting my job tomorrow, but that doesn't mean they aren't feeling the same pressure. That's why I've really enjoyed this conversation.

Chief Change Officer

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These are real global challenges. So as we conclude, let's go back to the seven habits. Each of them is important. But if someone wanted to start with just one, the foundation of all seven, the habit that if mastered properly would make it easier to develop the rest. Which one would it be and why?

Chief Change Officer

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But what matters is knowing what to focus on, where to put your energy, and what truly deserves your attention. Being effective, whether as a person, a leader, or in any role, isn't just about doing more or doing things faster. It's about doing the right things. And that brings us full circle to what effectiveness really means. Putting your energy into what matters most.

Chief Change Officer

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At the end of the day, it comes down to being human. Practicing human skills. Using our eyes to observe. Our ears to listen. Our voices to communicate. These are what make us unique as a species. Yes, AI is powerful, is an amazing tool, but it's just that, a tool. I actually spoke with another guest about this recently. How moving forward, everyone will need their own AI strategy.

Chief Change Officer

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That's right, not just companies, but individuals. We need to be mindful about how we use AI, when to use it, and what we shouldn't outsource to it because we still need to develop our own skills, our own intelligence, and our own wisdoms. AI can assist, but we are the ones who bring meaning, creativity, and judgment to the table.

Chief Change Officer

#246 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part Two

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That's where I'll leave you. We've covered trust, leadership, and why human intelligence is the real key to the future of work. The real question now is, what's one thing you can do today to build trust in your own team? Think about it. Big thanks to Todd for sharing his wisdom.

Chief Change Officer

#246 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#246 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part Two

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Yet, so many people don't even know how to communicate like real human beings. Some don't even know when to say thank you or sorry. And now people are outsourcing their thinking to AI. Writing, which is so deeply connected to thought, analysis, and expression, is being handed over to tools like ChatGPT. I worry that if we continue down this path, we'll start losing the art of being human.

Chief Change Officer

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What do you think? Is this a real risk? And if so, how do we stop it?

Chief Change Officer

#246 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part Two

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I am a Gen X. I'm 52, so I did not grow up in the digital world. I grew up analog. I was taught to write letters digitally. with pen and paper. If I didn't know a word, I look it up in a real dictionary, a thick one. That's how I learned English. No Google, no smartphone. Of course, as technology evolved, I adapted. I learned to use calculator, then a PC,

Chief Change Officer

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than Google when I went to business school. But the difference is, people like you and me had that analog foundation. We embraced new technology, but we already have those role and core skills built in. So even now, when I use AI, I'm very mindful of how I use it. I still write my own emails. I don't just say, hey, generate this for me. I don't want AI replacing my skills.

Chief Change Officer

#246 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part Two

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It's really just a tool, no different from a hammer. But I worry about those who never had that training, who never built those basic skills to begin with. If they're not careful and mindful, they will outsource everything to AI without realizing they're missing out on actual self-development. And that's a real problem in the workplace.

Chief Change Officer

#246 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part Two

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We keep hearing how CEOs want employees with strong interpersonal skills. There was even an article the other day about HR leaders saying that they don't want to hire Gen Z because they lack social skills. So, Todd, if you were still a chief people officer today and you saw this trend happening,

Chief Change Officer

#246 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part Two

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where younger employees aren't developing and refining core human skills because they over relied on AI tools, what would you do? How would you approach this issue? What can companies do to mitigate this before it becomes an even bigger problem?

Chief Change Officer

#246 Todd Davis: 30 Years at FranklinCovey—7 Habits They Don’t Teach in Business School — Part Two

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My guest is Todd Davis, former chief people officer at Franklin Covey, a properly listed leadership training company. Todd is the expert behind the bestseller, The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, and I spent 30 years coaching leaders and managers on how to actually work well with people. In this two-part series, we get into the real stuff.

Chief Change Officer

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The next question ties directly to what we just discussed. We had the unique opportunity to experience life before the digital world, which of course reveals our age, but it also means we understand both sides, analog and digital. Now we are in a cross-generational workforce, but it's chaotic. If you listen to the media, here's what they say. Gen Z doesn't want to work.

Chief Change Officer

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Millennials are burned out. Gen X is getting laid off. Baby boomers are not retiring. Every generation gets labeled. Each has its own set of challenges. So I want to pick your brain on this. From your experience, how should companies approach the situation?

Chief Change Officer

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And looking at the seven habits, do you think any of them could help teams and organizations take better control of generational diversity in a way that is more effective?

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Why most leaders think they are clear in communicating and giving instructions, but they aren't. How trust is built like a bank account. and why human intelligence is still the biggest competitive advantage. Oh, there's a wild story about these seven habits changing someone's life in the prison. Let's dive right in. A lot of what you talk about in your book, you call them skills, human skills.

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I completely agree with you. In the digital world, we've become so used to relying on technology to solve problems. And yes, technology is powerful, but at the end of the day, it's just a tool. The other day, in another interview about AI, I said, it's not just about AI. Before AI, we had apps. Before apps, we had software. But to me, apps are no different from a hammer or a screwdriver.

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We live in a tool economy. There's always some tools to fix something. And sure, tools are useful. I need a screwdriver when I need to fix something. But it can't fix everything. Now we're entering the era of AI agents. By the end of this year, we'll see even more AI solutions, both for businesses and individuals. They will solve some problems, but they won't solve everything.

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And honestly, if we were going to do this properly, I would dedicate seven episodes, one for each habit. Because it's not just about the principles, it's about the practice. And with all the clients you've coached over the years, I'm sure you've seen some incredible stories of transformation. Is there one that stands out? Maybe a client who really struggled with one of the habits.

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Maybe they had their own reasons, their own roadblocks. But with your guidance, they were able to untangle themselves from that situation and fully embrace and practice the habit. Have you come across a case like that?

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I guess in today's terms, they call this active listening, or listening with curiosity, right? The reality is, some people don't listen at all anymore, thanks to social media. Technology has trained people to communicate in a one-way street, just saying what they want to say, without any real interest in what others think. If they get a comment they don't like, they just delete it.

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are talking about leadership, trust, and why AI still can do what humans do best.

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Oh, this is hostile. I don't like it. But back to your point about real listening. Listening without judgment, without forming a response in your head while the other person is speaking. It's about being present, really hearing what someone is saying, stepping into their shoe. Maybe they're sharing a tough experience. Instead of immediately thinking, oh, how would I handle this?

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Todd Davis is from Franklin Covey, a name that's practically a household brand in the U.S. When it comes to leadership training, Franklin Covey is like Starbucks. Everyone knows it. At some point, almost everyone has either read one of the books or attended one of the trainings through the employers.

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Or what advice should I give? It's about sitting with that story, feeling what they are expressing. And in a business setting that's even harder, we are trained to analyze, to problem solve. Someone speaks, and we instantly jump to, oh, here's what you should do. But what you are saying is we should hold back.

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Instead of rushing to fix something, we should focus entirely on the speaker, the situation, the thought, the emotions. And only then, if they ask for advice, do we step in with insights? After fully understanding. Not before. Did I get that right?

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A lot of what you talk about in your book, you call them skills, human skills. I like to call them human intelligence. We live in a world where AI drives the conversation every day. It's about artificial intelligence. But what I've noticed over the past 10 to 15 years is a huge decline in human intelligence. I don't just mean things like empathy or resilience.

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And of course, one of the best-selling books in history is The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. Honestly, who doesn't want to be more effective? But let's be real. Workplaces today are facing big challenges. So I want Todd to join me and talk about how these habits can help solve or at least alleviate some of these issues.

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I'm talking about basic skills, such as speaking, writing, listening. We have ears, we have eyes, we have a mouth. Yet, so many people don't even know how to communicate like real human beings. Some don't even know when to say thank you or sorry. And now people are outsourcing their thinking to AI.

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Writing, which is so deeply connected to thought, analysis, and expression, is being handed over to tools like ChatGPT. I worry that if we continue down this path, we'll start losing the art of being human. What do you think? Is this a real risk? And if so, how do we stop it?

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That's it for today. We've talked about what makes leaders actually effective. But next, we're diving into the real human side. Why trust works like a bank account. The biggest leadership blind spots. And why most people don't really listen. Oh, and wait till you hear Todd's prison story. See you in part two.

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Now, Todd, before we get into the book, I always ask my guests about their own journey, the transitions they've made, the paths they've taken. But your story is different. You've been with Franklin Covey over 30 years. You are truly a loyalist. Tell us about your journey. What led you to Franklin Covey? What kept you there for three decades? And how the role has evolved over the years?

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Then we'll dive deeper into the book and its impact.

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Unlike your job, unlike your current job, your current role, if you guys are hiring again, let me know. I'll send you my resume.

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Thank you. Now, you spend most of your career in the people function, serving as chief people officer for a long time. and even before and after that, staying deeply involved in people-focused roles. So while your title hasn't changed much, you've seen workplace challenges evolve over the years, both as the insider leading teams and as an outsider coaching and consulting with organizations.

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My guest is Todd Davis, former chief people officer at Franklin Covey, a properly listed leadership training company. Todd is the expert behind the bestseller, The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, and I spent 30 years coaching leaders and managers on how to actually work well with people. In this two-part series, we get into the real stuff.

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That brings me to a natural question. what have you observed we can go a day without hearing about workplace issues such as downsizing burnout culture shifts every headline has something about the future of work from your perspective what's happening and why do you think the seven habits is not just still relevant but maybe even more critical today and in the years to come.

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The Seventh Habits, the latest version is a revised edition of the original. What's new? What's been updated? And why was now the right time for a refresh?

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Why most leaders think they are clear in communicating and giving instructions, but they aren't. How trust is built like a bank account. and why human intelligence is still the biggest competitive advantage. Oh, there's a wild story about these seven habits changing someone's life in the prison. Let's dive right in. Todd, good afternoon. Welcome to our show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

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According to him, in order to change, we need to first unfreeze, a stage where we understand the need and find the motivation to change. Second, change, the stage where you move towards a different behavior. Third, change, re-freeze, a stage where you solidify the change and establish that new behavior as the norm.

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You mentioned that you are a keen learner. So can you suggest books that have helped you learn, helped you grow over time and move forward?

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to solve problems and to be a better person. Every guest, they will suggest some books that have inspired them. So that's why I like to share their collective knowledge, collective inspirations with our audience. So that's the reason why I asked you about your source of inspiration. I'm also a keen reader. I've published two books and I'm writing my third.

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So that's also a reason why I always like to share knowledge. I also like to learn from each other. Like you said, you like to learn from other people's stories. The issues you mentioned, mental health, aging population, I can't resonate with you more about aging, isolation. I'm also only a child myself.

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

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Like you said, retired people, older people, they either stay with their spouse or live alone or live with a helper. Mental health, not only for youth, but basically for all ages. Women, 50% of the world population, yet not well-represented, under-empowered. So next time when you come back, tell us more about what you learned from

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stories of people around you from your stakeholders, older members of the communities, but also members of the youth, as well as the women. Despite all these systematic issues, at the same time, lots of opportunities for us to drive change. Tell us more about those changes that you have over time pursued and how you are still in the fight for more changes for your communities.

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

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In Pei Ling's case, in the first stage, unfreeze, if you recall in part one of our interview, I asked her specifically about the why, about the need and the motivation to change, from psychology to business consulting, from private individual to public officer. So the need and the motivation to change, figure it out. This stage is very personal. It's about you. You may not get 100% of the why yet.

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80, 90%, that's already very good. Because in the next stage, when you're going through the process of change, you will get to know more about yourself. So you'll figure out more, but you do need to start with a good chunk of understanding of your need and the motivation to change at the early stage, as in Pei Ling's case. The second stage, change, is the hardest part.

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We start with thinking of yourself, but then in the second stage, you have to go beyond yourself, go above yourself. You need to think like a social psychologist. Change behavior is a function of a person and a situation. In the first stage, you figure out yourself, the person, but what about the situation? What in that environment that helps you drive and sustain the change?

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What factors affect your behavior? What are some of the negative reinforcement factors? Well, in Pei Ling's case, for example, attacks in person and social media. What are the positive reinforcement factors? In Pei Ling's case, she got the support from the political party. In your case, you work in a big firm. You got support from a boss, from a CEO, from a board of directors.

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You are an entrepreneur. You got support from your investors. Good for you. But that's only one piece of the situation. In Penning's case... She went out there, exposed herself, faced the people, faced the challenges, trying to turn distrust into trust, to win the hearts and minds of people, get the buy-in in order to fit in. On top of that, she went for an MBA degree.

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She tried to build up her knowledge base to become more business savvy. But it's not just the body of knowledge or the fame of the degree. A lot of people thinking of getting an MBA degree missed the point. It's the situation you got yourself in that makes a difference in your life and career. In Pei Ling's case, she was younger, had less business experiences, let alone international experiences.

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But then, in those two years, she got direct exposure, direct interaction with people from all around the world, classmates who are more mature, more experienced from all walks of life, plus the professors. the deep knowledge in a lot of areas. Within two years, she built up not just the momentum of her growth, but the solid foundation for her to keep going on and on and on.

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So that's the value of an MBA degree in her situation. not to mention about a very important ecosystem of support she has nurtured over time. When she refreezes as a competent woman leader to fight for the interests of her people, she got all of those elements in place. It's about her, but it's also about her. To recap, three-step model of change.

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First, unfreeze, where you figure out yourself the need and the motivation to change. Second, Think like a social psychologist. Figure out your environment. Remember, change behavior is a function of a person and a situation. Figure out the strengthening and the weakening factors. Magnify the positive reinforcement factors. Downplay the negative reinforcement factors.

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In some cases, the situation isn't just right for you, then get out of it. You don't have to get yourself stuck in that. Change your game. Get onto another stage for you to sing, to dance, to perform, and outperform. Third, solidify all of these change elements. They're self-reinforcing to each other, so you're essentially building yourself a wider and deeper foundation.

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In her last episode, we look at how Pei Ling overcame the darkest period in her life, transforming from being a psychology major into winning the general election as the youngest elected parliamentarian. She discussed how facing biases related to age and gender has made her more resilient, both in terms of stamina and ability. A happy ending story for sure, but is that it? Of course not.

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taking you from the older self to the future self in a much more sustainable and successful manner. There is no overnight success. That's just a myth. Any success, any sustainable success always takes patience, effort, and a deep process of change. Now, let's go back to Pei Ling's story. Let's look at her model of change, how she made her own law of change to play the long game.

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I met you around 2013 when you started MBA. When I recall the statistics of our class, the average age was 37. You were among the youngest. What's the logic and psychology behind your decision to pursue an MBA degree after you got into politics?

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How would you describe your two years experience studying with people who are from different walks of life and most of us are older, have different experience from you?

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Oh, yeah.

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Yeah, part of your growth process, you are always on call as a coach. elected member of the parliament, always community works, always on. And then you finish your MBA education, you move back to the real world, you got your private sector job, full-time job, you got this public duty, and you're a mother of two.

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How do you balance, not just balancing your timetables, but also the roles you played? How do you balance all these different responsibilities and duties?

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That's why we have part two, Before we dive in, let me share with you one golden rule of success in driving and sustaining change. Whatever change you try to make, lose weight, launch a new product, or even trying to stage a large-scale transformation project in your firm, this rule applies. This is a three-stage model of change proposed by the founding father of social psychology, Kurt Lewin.

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You mentioned about women empowerment. Tell us a bit more about your work there, perhaps other issues that keep you busy, keep you on your toes.

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They may not say it in my face, but I can feel that they have their own, in quotation, reservation. I can relate to when you say it, but then in my situation, I have one less worry, which is social media. Your political career actually started around a time that this social media thing

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got more and more popular so promise what you got a lot of comments responses like every day every second so that is the kind of pressure that a regular human cannot just simply ignore it you have to kind of deal with it and judge what is relevant what's not relevant and what is actually noise what is actually a sincere comment i guess you learn the lessons along your way

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Pei Ling and I were part of a six-person committee organizing all sorts of special activities and graduation events. We spent time inside and outside the classroom in Singapore as well as in Chicago. Over the last 10 years, as a classmate, as an alum, as a friend, I've observed her growth. In my eyes, Pei Ling is someone who embodies the core essence of change.

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I can definitely see this scene. Going back to some of the story you just shared, I guess over time, you change people's heart through your actions. Actions speak louder than words. As a public figure, you can, of course, spend your time responding to every single comment. That obviously is a waste of time because a lot of comments may not be relevant.

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At the same time, silence is golden or I would say silence is equivalent to absence of noise. So if there's so much noise, you just learn to recognize what is noise, what is helpful to you and how you respond and how you respond sometimes with words, sometimes through actions. Time would give you the benefit of doubt. Eventually you grow and people see it.

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Speaking of change, I've made my fair share, 18 to be exact. One major moment was back in 2013 when I was 40 years old.

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That's the message you try to send to the world through the growth of your career.

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

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All the things I've mentioned earlier. Her story is a powerful reminder of what it means to own the change, to face the pain, and to emerge more resilient on the other side. In this episode, Pei Ling is going to share her incredible journey from psychology to politics. Why did she give up on pursuing clinical psychology?

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The year 2011 was a life-changing year for her, but in her own words, it was also the darkest period in her life. Facing in-person and social media attacks, dealing with biases relating to our age and gender. More importantly, how did she navigate through those challenges, make peace with them, and take control of her life post-election? Becoming the chief change officer of her own story?

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Let's dive in and find out.

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Before you got into politics, you were in psychology. Why did you give up on that?

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So you got into business consulting. Sounds like a good first job in your life. Yes. But then, what happened when you decided to get into politics?

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Would you say the move into politics was a big move for you? And you were a student in psychology. So let me flip the table to ask you about your own psychology. How did you feel about this change?

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I turned down a promising government job to take a leap of faith. I published my first book and joined Chicago Booth for my second MBA. That's where I met Pei Ling. our class had a meaningful mix of personalities. Pei Ling was among the youngest in our class. I was one of the most experienced.

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You're always on call.

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You touched upon a bit about great election and after you being the youngest, also being a woman. So when you look back about your experience, how did you try to make peace with them, but at the same time, overcome these issues in order to do your job, also to take good care of your own mental health?

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But by then, I already have over 15 years of work experiences in the business world and a seasoned MBA graduate from Yale. Yet, we all came together to be part of something special and monumental. We are the legacy class graduating in Singapore in the history of Chicago Booth, which was prepared to move its campus to Hong Kong.

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In today's world, if you look at ageism at workplace, many media focus on so-called the older end of the population spectrum. Especially when you talk about like tech company innovation, over 40 or 50. According to a lot of media, these more mature, more experienced or so-called older people, they are less tech savvy. Now that is one narrative.

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But I always believe that ageism is not limited to the mature people. It's for the so-called younger, which you just share your story with me. I recall in my days when I worked in finance in some of the biggest firms in the world. Men dominated, white guys, I'm being the Asian, I work overseas, I'm 20-something or early 30s.

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Nope, Mary's is all about making waves and driving positive change. So it's no surprise she's now teamed up with a rising star in the HR tech world. Let's talk about why this matters. Our job market right now is like a roller coaster. We've got layoffs, downsizing, companies flipping their business models on their heads, and AI stepping into the ring.

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I've got a treat for you. We are welcoming back a familiar voice to the show, Mary Shea.

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I can appreciate that if I were one of those candidates, by the way, in your process, I totally appreciate the fact that someone senior like you and your colleagues got really involved in the process. Because if I join, if you offer me a job, I will be working with you. How you treat me is indicative of how I will be treated as a colleague. Okay, so yes, I do have a story to share.

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I don't usually share a lot of personal story, especially if I do interview because I want the focus to be on the guest. But this time for this topic, I do have a personal story. So if you could allow me. This recent experience of mine really got me thinking about the challenges and opportunities in the HR space today. So I was up for this senior position. and a big international brand.

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You know, one of those roles that asks for over 20 years of work experience. Exciting stuff, right? Now, here's where it gets interesting. The person interviewing me, a young HR professional, maybe two or three years out of college, and she asked me to join her on a Zoom call. She sent this request through a automatic recruitment system. So I replied. I said, yes. I picked a date.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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And now keep in mind, this isn't during COVID and we are in the same city. So I offered to pop into the office for face-to-face conversation. Well, she did not come back to me. Maybe it's because of the automatic system. Then when we got on the call, I once again mentioned to her that I would love to meet her in person.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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Throw in some political and economic curve balls, and you've got a recipe for a lot of people hunting for jobs. It's not just about finding work, isn't it? We are in this fascinating era where you might have four generations all working side by side. And AI is like this double-edged sword opening doors for some while others are wondering if it will show them the door.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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I reached out to her before the call, and her response was, Oh no, Friday is work from home. We just do the call. All right, I thought, let's roll with it. From the moment we started, I can tell she's just reading questions off a screen next to her computer. It felt like I was in some kind of robotic interview simulator.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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The questions were all over the place, barely touching on what the job was actually about. And I can tell you, some questions were inappropriate, touching upon age and generation. There, I'm thinking, where's the human touch in all this? It really left me wondering about the company's culture. If this is how they treat potential candidates and executives, what's it like to work there?

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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It wasn't exactly the best first impression. I think in today's world where competition for top talent getting more and more intensive, HR is not only for recruitment, for administration, for training. What sets one employer apart from another employer for recruitment of top talents? HR plays a very, very crucial role in the whole process. HR is the frontline ambassador for the company.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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My experience felt like a missed opportunity. It made me wonder, in today's market, do you think advanced tech and AI solutions might actually offer a more personalized and effective experience than human recruiters? especially when there is a significant gap in experience or multi-generational understanding? How do you see technology potentially bridging these gaps?

Chief Change Officer

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So where does it all leave us? What's the future of work looking like? That's exactly what we are diving in today with Mary. She's going to give us the lowdown on what's happening in HR and recruitment. Ready? Let's jump in and hear what Mary's got to say. Mary, welcome back.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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It's really good. As we speak, a lot of the issues I've raised, the solutions to these issues, the approach to dealing with and managing the risks of what AI technology can and will bring to the table are still being developed and explored. That's the beauty of change. Change is changing itself. We'll come back to this in our next episode together.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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Before we wrap up, I have one more question for you. We've talked about a lot of technological potential and advancements in HR for employers. Let's flip the table and talk about job seekers. Given your experience in this area, your read on this industry, What advice would you give to job seekers in this increasingly AI-driven market?

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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How can they position themselves better and stronger in the AI-driven recruitment process to become a standout candidate, for example, and effectively communicate the value, the real value to the employers? For this question, you and I know very well that using ChatGPT or any AI tool to create a 100% polished resume and cover letter is not the answer. So what's your advice? Yes.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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You've had a deep career journey from being an industry analyst at Forrester to now collaborating with a rising star in HR technology. What drew you to this HR tech space? And what makes you believe we are at a tipping point for accelerated growth in this sector?

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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You answer one of the questions on my list is about networking. You and I started and built our careers before the digital age. So our training, our experience, involved a lot of human touch, a lot of personal touch. For example, cold calling, industry event, socialization, face-to-face, keeping in touch, in close touch with people before we had LinkedIn. The gesture of reciprocation

Chief Change Officer

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Yet the younger generations, they've grown up in a digital era. So the definition of networking, the approach to communicating with people, to building and developing sustainable, meaningful relationships, so much different from ours.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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100% agree. That's why I never see myself building a podcast, a show. I am building a community, a global community involving minds like yourself who is progressive about developing, evolving, and revolutionizing their careers, their future.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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If you caught our first season back in March, you might remember her from episode three and four. If you missed those, don't worry. They're still there if you want to catch up. But we'll cover plenty of ground today. Now, let me tell you. Mary's career path is anything but ordinary.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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Let's talk about HireQuotient, with which you are partnering in the U.S. market. I check out the website, they offer a full suite of solutions and products for businesses and enterprises. I'm intrigued by the idea of uncovering hidden talent pools. Can you walk us through how that actually works in practice?

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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I believe this is the, this is what you call a differentiation or differentiation factor in high quotient.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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We're talking a journey from classical musician to frontline salesperson, all the way to senior tech leader in sales and revenue enablement. Talk about range, huh? But here's what really makes Mary tick. She's all about using tech to shake things up in how we work. As she put it in her last conversation, she's not one for playing by the standard rule book.

Chief Change Officer

#189 Mary Shea PhD: From Classical Music to Closing Deals—The Art of Reinventing Your Career – Part Three

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There's a common belief that scalable HR tech solutions are best suited for lower-end, less skilled jobs versus higher-end, highly skilled and senior jobs.

Chief Change Officer

#131 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part One

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does not mean that's the end you may actually end up going back there once again so it's just a little bit very interesting about life experiences how it comes back to you it's like planting a seed along the way you nurture it and eventually it bears fruit life has a way of bringing things back to you at the right time if you go with the flow I'm not being religious here.

Chief Change Officer

#131 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part One

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But after years of cross-cultural experiences, getting to know different cultures, people, and backgrounds, I've noticed that certain common themes link up the decisions I've made in my career and life. So I'm curious about your journey. You are 46 with family and children.

Chief Change Officer

#131 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part One

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Looking back up to this point in your life, have you discovered or identified any common themes that have guided the moves you've made along the way?

Chief Change Officer

#131 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part One

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We'll also explore his expectations for his own children as a father at age 46. Chris, welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#131 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part One

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As I was listening, two words came to mind. Self-discovery and self-fulfillment. It seems that your life and career have been about discovering, identifying, and fulfilling your identities. While you've mentioned roles like entrepreneur and now investor, these are more like perspectives you take or roles you play.

Chief Change Officer

#131 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part One

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But I believe that identity is something essential or central to everyone's life, not just for those with privileged backgrounds, but for anyone and everyone. I know some really successful people who, by the time they retire or near the end of their life journey, regret that they followed the standard playbook and never gave themselves a chance to do more, to do something different, for example.

Chief Change Officer

#131 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part One

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So I appreciate your boldness, your adventurous attitude, and the actions you've taken so far. I recall you wrote an article titled, Is Singapore Still Relevant After 50 Years? Here's an Entrepreneurial View. So you returned to Singapore after Malaysia, built up the startup ecosystem and founded your venture capital house. Could you share with us your experience during this time?

Chief Change Officer

#131 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part One

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Chris and I met a few years back through a common friend in Singapore. Since then, we've exchanged a lot of ideas about entrepreneurship, investment, and more. Today, I invite Chris to come over to our show and share with us about his own journey into entrepreneurship and investment, as well as his vision for driving change in the Southeast Asian entrepreneurial ecosystem.

Chief Change Officer

#131 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part One

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Stay tuned for the part two of Chris' journey of transformation. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#131 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part One

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At the start, Chris, could you share with us about your background and personal career? Then we'll explore different parts of your journey.

Chief Change Officer

#131 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part One

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You mentioned you were raised in a fairly established family business. You could have taken the easy route, taken over the family business, scale it up and continued making money. But instead, you chose to be more entrepreneurial and take risks.

Chief Change Officer

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I'm curious, was there anything in your childhood, in your family education, or the environment you grew up in that helped shape your entrepreneurial spirit and mindset?

Chief Change Officer

#131 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part One

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Against his father's expectations, he left the family business and his home country to pursue entrepreneurship in Malaysia. where he became an e-commerce entrepreneur. Upon returning to Singapore, he sold his inheritance to raise the set up capital for his venture capital firm. Chris wants to be his own man. We will explore his journey of transformation in two parts.

Chief Change Officer

#131 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part One

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I totally see it. While I don't have your kind of family background, I can relate in other ways. I'm just about five years older than you. I might have a baby face, but actually 51. My journey in the business world, aside from formal education and business school, was shaped largely by the people around me.

Chief Change Officer

#131 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part One

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I work in corporate jobs at global organizations, and the best learning I've ever received wasn't just from corporate training. It was from people. Like you, I learned a lot from those with on-the-job experience, whether it was my bosses, colleagues, or mentors. These are things that aren't digitalized or written in books, but are passed down directly, much like how your father trained you.

Chief Change Officer

#131 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part One

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I picked up concepts like business models, revenue structures, and cost management early on. Often before I even knew the formal terms. What really resonated with me was the encouragement and confidence these people gave me before I even believed in myself. They gave me opportunities to try something new and different.

Chief Change Officer

#131 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part One

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And that's something I can surely relate to in your experience, even though we come from different family backgrounds.

Chief Change Officer

#131 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In this episode and the next, I'll be talking to Christopher Quek, a third-generation member of a well-established family business in Singapore.

Chief Change Officer

#131 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part One

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It's interesting that you brought up Li Ka-shing because as you were sharing how your father trained you during your childhood, it reminded me of a well-known story about Li Ka-shing himself. For the listeners who may not know who Li Ka-shing is, Originally from Hong Kong, he is the founder of a multi-billion dollar business conglomerate with a global footprint.

Chief Change Officer

#131 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part One

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He famously brought his eldest son, Victor Lee, into the boardroom at the age of eight to immerse him in the boardroom dynamics. Clearly, he was preparing him as the heir to the business. Back to you, Chris. Your father obviously had high expectations for you to take over the family business. Yet, you only stayed in China for three days and then headed off to Malaysia.

Chief Change Officer

#131 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part One

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This episode focuses on his pursuit of his own identity, his desires, his actions, the why and the how. In the next episode, we'll dive into his current work as a VC investor. building up the entrepreneurial ecosystem in Singapore and Southeast Asia. We'll discuss the legacy he hopes to create for his country and the region.

Chief Change Officer

#131 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part One

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Where did you find the courage or the guts to make that decision? And can you share more about your e-commerce business in Malaysia? What did you learn during those six years there?

Chief Change Officer

#112 When Loyalty Meets Layoffs: Benedikt Oehmen’s Mission to Guide Others Through Career Challenges – Part One

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Now, Benedict is turning that experience into something powerful. He's built a full-time practice to help others navigate similar challenges of layoffs and downsizing, offering a shift in mindset and sharing the principles from his book, where he lays out his big three strategies for stepping out of the shadows and moving on, better, faster, and stronger. Welcome, Benedick. Welcome to our show.

Chief Change Officer

#112 When Loyalty Meets Layoffs: Benedikt Oehmen’s Mission to Guide Others Through Career Challenges – Part One

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It sounds like your journey into coaching was part of your own self-discovery, where you eventually turned that interest into a full-time practice. Now, when it comes to career transitions, people handle them in different ways. Whether the transition was triggered by downsizing, layoffs, involuntary resignation, or simply wanting to do something different.

Chief Change Officer

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not everyone sees it in a positive light. Some people see transitions as a failure or setback, while others see them as opportunities for growth. while others see them as opportunities for growth. Personally, I see career transitions as growth opportunities, though I admit that there was a time in my life when I didn't.

Chief Change Officer

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I used to see them as personal failures, which made the process really tough for me. But back to you, now that you've built a coaching practice and have been working with people, what do you think causes some individuals to struggle with seeing career transitions as opportunities? Why do some people see it as a setback or even feel resentment towards making a change?

Chief Change Officer

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You've designed a framework called the Big Three. Can you elaborate on that? How do you use these three principles to help your client take better control of their careers and future?

Chief Change Officer

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Benedick, you've written a book which is freely available Through this book and your coaching practice, you're helping people through career dilemmas, layoffs, and various forms of corporate downsizing. I'm sure many listeners are eager to hear more about your insights, your philosophy, and your approach to these challenges. But before we dive into that, could you share a bit about your own story?

Chief Change Officer

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#112 When Loyalty Meets Layoffs: Benedikt Oehmen’s Mission to Guide Others Through Career Challenges – Part One

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Where are you originally from in Germany? What brought you to France? And what did you do there? Let's start with your background and then we'll explore different parts of your experiences in more depth.

Chief Change Officer

#112 When Loyalty Meets Layoffs: Benedikt Oehmen’s Mission to Guide Others Through Career Challenges – Part One

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Wow. You've stayed with one firm for 17 years, taking on multiple roles. Talk about loyalty. In today's workplace, loyalty to employers... or even employers' loyalty to employees feels like antique. Premium, high value, but very, very few people truly understand the value. How was that experience for you? Tell us about how your roles evolved over time.

Chief Change Officer

#112 When Loyalty Meets Layoffs: Benedikt Oehmen’s Mission to Guide Others Through Career Challenges – Part One

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You mentioned that you study physics, which I have to admit, I know nothing about. I've always thought people who study physics are super smart. But then, in a gaming company, you were dealing with customers, working with people, and creating games. How did all of that come together for you?

Chief Change Officer

#112 When Loyalty Meets Layoffs: Benedikt Oehmen’s Mission to Guide Others Through Career Challenges – Part One

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Benedict has spent 17 years with Blizzard, a market leader in creating epic gaming experiences. In today's workplace, loyalty to employers or even employers' loyalty to employees feels like a relic of the past. So how was that experience for him? For the most part, it was positive and enjoyable. But then things shifted. Hearts were broken. Homes were shuttered.

Chief Change Officer

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So, if I look at your journey, it seems like, for the most part, two-thirds of it, your time at Blizzard was quite positive and enjoyable. You had the right kind of culture, a great team, and you were learning through different roles. But then something changed.

Chief Change Officer

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It seemed like the trigger point was the merger, new policies, a shift in business direction, and ultimately a change in the overall culture. That's when a lot of changes started happening for you personally, as well as for the team and the things you care about at this company.

Chief Change Officer

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Over time, especially around the COVID period, you found yourself trying different things, staying engaged in the firm, but the whole environment kept shifting, becoming less familiar and no longer the right fit for you. With the downsizing and layoffs, it sounds like that was the moment

Chief Change Officer

#112 When Loyalty Meets Layoffs: Benedikt Oehmen’s Mission to Guide Others Through Career Challenges – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Every day, it seems like you can't escape news of layoffs, corporate downsizing, or restructuring. Today's guest, Benedict Ullman, has been directly impacted.

Chief Change Officer

#112 When Loyalty Meets Layoffs: Benedikt Oehmen’s Mission to Guide Others Through Career Challenges – Part One

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when it became clear that it was time for you to move on and now you're channeling that experience into your current practice helping others who face similar challenges and layoffs at what point During or after your time at Blizzard, did you have that testimony like, hey, I've been through this tough experience. Why not turn it into a way to help others?

Chief Change Officer

#112 When Loyalty Meets Layoffs: Benedikt Oehmen’s Mission to Guide Others Through Career Challenges – Part One

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Was there a specific moment that made you realize, this is what I want to do. This is my new mission.

Chief Change Officer

#111 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part Two

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questions about their qualifications, the accuracy of their information, conflicts of interest, and the fact that some may lack formal financial education or ethical standards. Some may promote investments for personal gain without proper disclosure. With so much information out there,

Chief Change Officer

#111 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part Two

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what's your take on this rising force of influencers and how would you advise listeners who are navigating through all this to make smarter decisions i think finn influencers are i would say that there's

Chief Change Officer

#111 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part Two

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So if you have kids, care about your financial future, are looking after elderly family members, or are simply concerned about financial and family planning in general, join us and get inspired by Colin's journey in building wealth from scratch. This is part two of our two-part series on Colin and his golden rules of people-focused finance. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#111 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part Two

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I think the issue with financial influences is just one part of a larger problem. Ever since the internet became a part of our lives, we've had access to a flood of information. And now, with social media and various platforms, we all have to deal with misinformation and fake news. These influencers are just one group of influencers sharing information, but often it's not verifiable.

Chief Change Officer

#111 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part Two

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This brings us to a major topic that has been discussed a lot lately in the media, which is developing critical thinking and independent thinking. These are skills we're supposed to learn in school and on the job. But with the rise of social media and some negative effects of technology, it seems like people are losing the art of thinking critically and independently.

Chief Change Officer

#111 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part Two

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So, the desire for control often comes from a lack of trust and confidence in the system.

Chief Change Officer

#111 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part Two

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This brings me to our last and most important question. Let's go back to your roots as a family man. You are a father of three young kids, the next generation. With your knowledge of investment and diversification, you're already building a financial safety net for them, buying gold for them, securing the future. But beyond the wealth you're building,

Chief Change Officer

#111 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part Two

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there's the question of how they will make use of it as they grow up. That leads us to financial education and literacy, which I believe is lacking in today's society, especially for younger people. So as a professional investor who helps clients day in and day out, also as a father of three, How are you preparing your children for their financial future?

Chief Change Officer

#111 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part Two

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How do you nurture the ability to become critical thinkers, independent decision makers, and financial literate individuals so they can make informed decisions when the time comes?

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#111 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part Two

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That's actually one of the biggest lessons my mother shared with me back in high school. She never had the chance to go to college. She grew up poor and didn't get that opportunity. But she loves learning and she makes sure I could learn as much as I wanted. She always tells me, focus on your learning because that's something no one can ever steal from you.

Chief Change Officer

#111 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part Two

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When you think about it, stocks and bonds can lose value overnight. But then there's the argument that a degree doesn't hold the same importance anymore. That's a whole other conversation we could dive into in a different episode. But one thing is for sure, learning itself never goes out of style. Learning always has long-term value, no matter what. is an investment that never depreciates.

Chief Change Officer

#111 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, Take care.

Chief Change Officer

#111 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part Two

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Yes, inflation, the common enemy we all face. But what other concerns should people be thinking about?

Chief Change Officer

#111 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part Two

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I used to work in Los Angeles for TCW Asset Management, where I managed billion-dollar funds for institutions alongside the bond king, Jeffrey Gundlach, focusing on bond and credit portfolios. Today, I'm meeting someone else from LA, but with a different angle on investment. Precious metals like gold and silver.

Chief Change Officer

#111 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part Two

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You've mentioned the word retirement a few times now. Well, this podcast isn't specifically about retirement. A lot of what we discuss, like career change and navigating through this era of change and uncertainty, ties into that. Even the whole notion of retirement is evolving, with AI set to reshape many aspects of work and career development.

Chief Change Officer

#111 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part Two

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the idea of what retirement looks like is shifting too. Now, for those who still have a stable job and income, would you say in preparing for whatever that version of retirement might be, Diversifying or investing in gold and precious metals could serve as a haste against income uncertainty. Have you worked with clients in this situation before? And what advice do you give them?

Chief Change Officer

#111 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part Two

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Our guest, Colin Plume, is here to talk about something often overlooked and undervalued. But don't worry, this isn't a sales pitch on buying gold or silver. Colin and I will dive into more personal topics, family, parenting, retirement, and the sense of control over personal finance, as well as financial education for future generations.

Chief Change Officer

#111 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#111 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part Two

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That brings up another opportunity for a longer-term strategy, especially for people with continued income. It's definitely healthier, both physically and mentally, to stay sharp, to stay engaged, even part-time. Studies show that after a certain age, while exercise is crucial for physical health, keeping your brain active is just as important for mental and physical well-being.

Chief Change Officer

#111 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part Two

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Earning extra income, even part-time, helps with that. And of course, some of that extra income could go towards investments, like you mentioned. But it's also about maintaining control. Control over your life, your mobility, and what you want to achieve before the final days. I think we all, at the end of the day, want to own our lives and have control over them.

Chief Change Officer

#111 Collin Plume: Navigating Life Transitions with People-First Financial Planning – Part Two

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And one of the tools to do that is money. Now that you've touched on retirement, there's another trend, the rise of financial influencers. These days, anyone can learn about finance and investments online anytime, anywhere. On one hand, these influencers help democratize financial information and make advice more accessible. But on the other hand, there are concerns.

Chief Change Officer

#306 Chris Hare: Strategy Starts with the Story You Believe

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. If you've been listening to my show, you know I bring guests from all corners of the world to share their stories.

Chief Change Officer

#306 Chris Hare: Strategy Starts with the Story You Believe

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So far, we've covered a lot about narrative and storytelling in a business context. But as you mentioned earlier, Narrative can also play a powerful role at an individual level for leaders, for people in career transitions, or even entrepreneurs building a new venture. My next question naturally is, how do we apply narrative and story to individual situations?

Chief Change Officer

#306 Chris Hare: Strategy Starts with the Story You Believe

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Could you walk us through some examples to help administrators

Chief Change Officer

#306 Chris Hare: Strategy Starts with the Story You Believe

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Just now, Chris shared with us his expertise in helping businesses craft compelling corporate stories and educate us to understand the connection between story and narrative. Tomorrow in part two, we'll look at storytelling for personal transformation as Chris shares some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard. He will also open up about his own mental wellness challenge.

Chief Change Officer

#306 Chris Hare: Strategy Starts with the Story You Believe

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In this three-part series, we'll journey through Chris' experiences in three stages. Today, in part one, we'll explore his expertise in helping businesses compelling corporate stories and understand the connection between story and narrative. Tomorrow in part two, we'll look at storytelling for personal transformation as Chris shares some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard

Chief Change Officer

#306 Chris Hare: Strategy Starts with the Story You Believe

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Come back and join us tomorrow. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#306 Chris Hare: Strategy Starts with the Story You Believe

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he will also open up about his own mental health challenge. Then in part three, he'll introduce tools we can use to develop our own stories and narratives. And here's a personal confession. I told him one of his exercises might just make me cry. I'll also be sharing my own experience with another exercise, highlighting both his challenges and insights.

Chief Change Officer

#306 Chris Hare: Strategy Starts with the Story You Believe

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So let's dive into the first chapter of Chris' story. Good morning to you, Chris. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#306 Chris Hare: Strategy Starts with the Story You Believe

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Chris is also a podcast host, so it's a pleasure to have him on my show today. Hopefully, I'll get a chance to return the favor and join his show one day. Now, Chris has a ton of experience in storytelling. And as many of my listeners know, I ask every guest to share their story.

Chief Change Officer

#306 Chris Hare: Strategy Starts with the Story You Believe

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So inviting a storyteller like Chris to dive into his personal journey and share his approach to storytelling feels like a perfect fit for this episode. Chris, let's kick things off with your story. Give us an overview and then we'll dig into different elements of your journey.

Chief Change Officer

#306 Chris Hare: Strategy Starts with the Story You Believe

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So you started your storytelling journey by helping corporations shape and share their narratives. And now you've shifted the focus to individuals. Is that right?

Chief Change Officer

#306 Chris Hare: Strategy Starts with the Story You Believe

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We hear the term storytelling used so frequently. But before we dive into your approach, I notice that you also frequently use another term, narrative. Could you explain the difference between stories and narratives and why that distinction matters?

Chief Change Officer

#306 Chris Hare: Strategy Starts with the Story You Believe

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Through these stories, we dive into hindsight, insights, and foresight for you, the progressive-minded listeners who crave change. Whether you're navigating a career shift a personal transformation like health challenges or driving change in your organization or community, there's something here for you. Today's episode has a unique twist.

Chief Change Officer

#306 Chris Hare: Strategy Starts with the Story You Believe

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In mass media, we hear the term storytelling used almost everywhere, maybe even overused. It seems like everyone is calling themselves a storyteller these days. But when you mention narrative, it seems like you are getting at something different. Could you use an analogy to help illustrate the difference or even the link between a narrative and a story?

Chief Change Officer

#306 Chris Hare: Strategy Starts with the Story You Believe

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So as I understand it, narrative and story really reinforce each other. If I'm hearing you correctly, you're saying that a narrative isn't static. It can evolve over time. For example, in a business context, you might start with one narrative that helps attract customers or business partners.

Chief Change Officer

#306 Chris Hare: Strategy Starts with the Story You Believe

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Those people in turn generate their own stories, which marketing and communications teams can collect to learn more about the customers and their experiences. These stories then help to reshape or even reposition the narrative, potentially attracting a new segment of the market. Would you say that's a fair summary of how narrative and story interact?

Chief Change Officer

#306 Chris Hare: Strategy Starts with the Story You Believe

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I'm interviewing a storytelling expert to share his own story. My guest, Chris Hare, is a strategic narrative advisor and coach for companies like Amazon and Microsoft, guiding leaders and executives with his approach called Atomic Storytelling. His method breaks down complex stories into their cool, resonant elements.

Chief Change Officer

#306 Chris Hare: Strategy Starts with the Story You Believe

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Is the narrative essentially part of the branding or is it something bigger? In other words, does the narrative serve as an umbrella under which the brand and all its messaging operates? Or are they distinct but closely related? How would you explain the relationship between narrative and brand in a business context?

Chief Change Officer

#305 Sara Lobkovich: Strategy Is Not a Suit—It’s a Skill

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Your book's first page is dedicated to quite a range of individuals and I want to read it out loud for the benefit of our listeners. This book is dedicated to introverts, people with ADHD, those on the autism spectrum, trauma survivors, strategy brain square packs, frustrated change makers, revolutionaries, a combination of rebels and revolutionaries. And lastly, thinker doers.

Chief Change Officer

#305 Sara Lobkovich: Strategy Is Not a Suit—It’s a Skill

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In the last episode, part one, We looked into who Sarah is, what she's been through, and how her past has shaped her purpose today. In this episode, part two, we'll dig into the book, her why, her audience, her objectives, and her vision. That said, Sarah's story and her book aren't just personal. They are also deeply rational. She's packed it with tools, analysis, and a lot of business concepts.

Chief Change Officer

#305 Sara Lobkovich: Strategy Is Not a Suit—It’s a Skill

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There are a couple of interesting terms there. So why did she choose this audience? I'm guessing you must personally resonate with these people. Maybe you were, or still are, one of them. Why did you dedicate this book to this specific group?

Chief Change Officer

#305 Sara Lobkovich: Strategy Is Not a Suit—It’s a Skill

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This episode and the last one are for the introverts, the ADHDs, those on the autism spectrum, trauma survivors, strategy brain square packs, frustrated change makers.

Chief Change Officer

#305 Sara Lobkovich: Strategy Is Not a Suit—It’s a Skill

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When it comes to business books, it's difficult to make a lot of money Unless you are already a big celebrity with branding, with resources for marketing, widespread marketing, a big publishing house behind you, and a strong social media presence. Even then, those thought authors tend to focus on board generic topics that appeal to the mass market because that's where the scalability is.

Chief Change Officer

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For anyone familiar with business school models and buzzwords, you'll find her approach balances speaking to a specific audience while delivering real business value. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#305 Sara Lobkovich: Strategy Is Not a Suit—It’s a Skill

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But with your book, you are doing something different. You are speaking to a specific group of people, people like you, who you want to help and connect with. Sure, we might not have the exact statistics on how many people fall into that group, but it's bold. It takes courage to put in the time and money, hire people and contractors and say, I'm going to speak up no matter the judgment.

Chief Change Officer

#305 Sara Lobkovich: Strategy Is Not a Suit—It’s a Skill

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And that's what I see in your book, a special kind of love letter. But one that's not just personal, it's also rational. You've got tools, analysis, and a lot of business concepts baked into it. For someone who is familiar with business school models and buzzwords, I can see you've really balanced speaking to a specific audience with delivering real business and economic value?

Chief Change Officer

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#305 Sara Lobkovich: Strategy Is Not a Suit—It’s a Skill

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Is that why you came up with the title for this book, You Are a Astrologist? Was it inspired by your vision of democratizing astrology for everyone?

Chief Change Officer

#305 Sara Lobkovich: Strategy Is Not a Suit—It’s a Skill

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revolutionaries, that is rebels and revolutionaries combined, as well as thinker-doers. Why? Because our guest today, Sarah Lobkovich, is part of these groups. And she's not holding back anymore. In fact, she spent months writing two books that bring together her life lessons and business strategy experience to help us all wake up our inner strategist and achieve big goals. No BS.

Chief Change Officer

#304 Sara Lobkovich: When the System Doesn’t Fit, Rewrite the Operating Manual

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as I was listening to your story. First off, if we were in a studio together right now, I would give you a big high five. You really hit on something that's basically me. When you mentioned getting excited about an opportunity, putting in 200% of your time and effort only to realize They just want 20 or 25% from you, and they don't even appreciate all the extra thoughts and work.

Chief Change Officer

#304 Sara Lobkovich: When the System Doesn’t Fit, Rewrite the Operating Manual

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Yeah, that was me too, for sure. Thanks for sharing that, Sarah. But as I kept listening, I also picked up on something else. There have been quite a few moments when you were stuck or felt stuck. And it sounds like through a lot of self-discovery, you rose above those challenges and kept moving forward. Is that a fair way to summarize your evolution?

Chief Change Officer

#304 Sara Lobkovich: When the System Doesn’t Fit, Rewrite the Operating Manual

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This episode and the next episodes

Chief Change Officer

#304 Sara Lobkovich: When the System Doesn’t Fit, Rewrite the Operating Manual

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will dig into the book, her why, her audience, her objectives, and her vision. That said, Sarah's story and her book aren't just personal. They are also deeply rational. She's packed it with tools, analysis, and a lot of business concepts.

Chief Change Officer

#304 Sara Lobkovich: When the System Doesn’t Fit, Rewrite the Operating Manual

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Now, you've written a book, or should I say you're about to publish a new book. The title is You Are a Strologist. Use no BS objectives and key results to get big things done. As you mentioned, you've been practicing astrology as a profession for years. Before we dive into your book, I'd like to talk a bit about the role of astrologist as a profession.

Chief Change Officer

#304 Sara Lobkovich: When the System Doesn’t Fit, Rewrite the Operating Manual

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When we are in a childhood, we usually say we want to be a pilot, a doctor, a lawyer. But the astrologist usually is not something of a so-called dream job. Yet, astrology consultants, especially in firms like McKinsey or BCG, often have this prestigious image attached to them. thanks to their branding and marketing.

Chief Change Officer

#304 Sara Lobkovich: When the System Doesn’t Fit, Rewrite the Operating Manual

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For anyone familiar with business school models and buzzwords, you'll find her approach balances speaking to a specific audience while delivering real business value. Let's get started. Welcome, Sarah. Welcome to our show. Let's dive right into your story.

Chief Change Officer

#304 Sara Lobkovich: When the System Doesn’t Fit, Rewrite the Operating Manual

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These firms have really crafted a perception around their consultants, hence the seven figure, eight figure fee. After spending a good amount of time in corporate consulting yourself, What are some of the biggest misconceptions about being a astrology consultant? What's the reality versus the myth? Could you share that with us, honestly?

Chief Change Officer

#304 Sara Lobkovich: When the System Doesn’t Fit, Rewrite the Operating Manual

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Let's continue Sarah's story tomorrow, shall we? Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#304 Sara Lobkovich: When the System Doesn’t Fit, Rewrite the Operating Manual

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How did you end up doing what you're doing now? Maybe we can dive deeper and go down memory lane. Where are you originally from? I know you are now on the West Coast in the United States, but let's talk about the early part of your life. Where did it all start for you?

Chief Change Officer

#304 Sara Lobkovich: When the System Doesn’t Fit, Rewrite the Operating Manual

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are for the introverts, the ADHDs, those on the autism spectrum, trauma survivors, astrology brain square packs, frustrated change makers, revolutionaries, that's rebels and revolutionaries combined, and thinker doers. Why? Because our guest today, Sarah Lobkovich, is part of these groups and she is not holding back anymore.

Chief Change Officer

#304 Sara Lobkovich: When the System Doesn’t Fit, Rewrite the Operating Manual

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You mentioned that starting point in 2016. And here we are now heading into 2025, almost 10 years later. I'll let you tell more about about what these last 10 years have been like for you in a moment. But before 2016, like you said, you've gone through several transformation points. Transformations are unique for everyone. Even for me, each of those moments felt very different from one another.

Chief Change Officer

#304 Sara Lobkovich: When the System Doesn’t Fit, Rewrite the Operating Manual

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Looking back now, especially since people who write books tend to have reflected deeply on their experiences, I'm curious, what were some of those key transformation points or challenges you faced that really stand out to you? More importantly, how did you manage to get unstuck We are living in a world where so many people feel stuck in some way.

Chief Change Officer

#304 Sara Lobkovich: When the System Doesn’t Fit, Rewrite the Operating Manual

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So I think your story could really resonate with anyone who might be going through that right now.

Chief Change Officer

#304 Sara Lobkovich: When the System Doesn’t Fit, Rewrite the Operating Manual

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In fact, she's spent months writing two books that bring together her life lessons and business strategy experience. to help us all wake up our inner astrologist and achieve big goals with no BS. In this episode, part one, we'll dive into who Sarah is, what she's been through and how her past has shaped her purpose today. In the next episode, part two,

Chief Change Officer

#141 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part One

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So exactly how much have you raised over the last 10 years or so?

Chief Change Officer

#141 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part One

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Wow. That's 150 million Hong Kong. That is about how much in US? Like 20? Yeah.

Chief Change Officer

#141 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part One

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Yeah. Yeah. And for that is a big chunk of money you've raised over the years.

Chief Change Officer

#141 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part One

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I was wondering, while raising money isn't your main focus, when you do receive a significant amount of money, How do you use it? How do you allocate those funds to create the most impact?

Chief Change Officer

#141 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part One

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And it's safe to say he sees life and business leadership as a journey too. We'll be talking for about an hour, split into two parts. In this episode, part one, we'll dive into the genesis and evolution of 24-hour race. What started as a casual suggestion on a rainy day turned into a life-changing journey for a teenager. The walk across England raised five figures in U.S.

Chief Change Officer

#141 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part One

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So basically, you allocate the funds across different NGOs. All of them are involved in fighting against human trafficking. Is that how you turn the money into real action?

Chief Change Officer

#141 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part One

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In the last 30 minutes, Chris shared his journey from a humble teenage charity event to leading a global movement valued at over 20 million US dollar. His experiences, whether trekking through desks and scaling mountains, have shaped his understanding of business leadership and team building.

Chief Change Officer

#141 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part One

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In the next episode, Releasing Tomorrow, we'll dive deeper into Chris' leadership approach, drawing parallels between leading expeditions and managing business teams. He will show how lessons learned from life or death situations in the wilderness can translate into powerful leadership strategies in the corporate world.

Chief Change Officer

#141 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part One

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Chris also shares heartfelt advice for young ambitious talents on how to balance life goals, family expectations, and career direction. See you. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#141 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part One

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dollars and sparked an eight-figure U.S. dollar global movement. Tomorrow's episode, part two, will focus on Chris' approach to leadership and team building, drawing parallels between leading an expedition and managing a business team. This episode highlights how lessons learned from life or death situations in the wilderness translate into effective leadership strategies in the corporate world.

Chief Change Officer

#141 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part One

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Chris also offers his heartfelt advice for young ambitious talents on balancing life goals, family expectations, and career direction. Welcome, Chris. Welcome to my show.

Chief Change Officer

#141 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part One

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Chris, do you remember that I invited you to an in-person event hosted by me back in 2016? And I can't believe that after so many years, I got the second chance of inviting you back now in a virtual format.

Chief Change Officer

#141 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part One

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Chris, you and I are born and raised in Hong Kong, but I know you have a very interesting multicultural background. Tell us more about that.

Chief Change Officer

#141 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part One

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Today's guest is Chris Schrader, founder and executive chairman of 24 Hour Race, which is a global movement against human trafficking that has raised over 20 million US dollars in the last decade. I've known Chris for almost 10 years. Our first encounter was back in 2016 when I invited him to be a panelist at an event I hosted on education technology.

Chief Change Officer

#141 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part One

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Up until this point... You had what seemed like an uneventful childhood, but then something happened while you were attending boarding school in Britain that planted the seed for what would later become the 24-hour race. Can you dive into that? Could you share more about what happened in detail?

Chief Change Officer

#141 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part One

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But how did you end up transforming the whole race into a movement against human trafficking?

Chief Change Officer

#141 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part One

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Chris is sharp, well-read, and definitely unconventional. He took a leave of absence from Harvard Spent an extended period of time away and eventually finished his studies in neuroscience while also building and growing tech businesses around the world. Along the way, he founded a charity based on his love for expeditions.

Chief Change Officer

#141 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#68 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part One

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Those setbacks ended up leading to new insights, to new heights, knowing what I can and I cannot do, what I can accept, and what doesn't fit me at all. It helps me become laser-focused on what really works for me and what's worth pursuing. That clarity can be powerful, almost like a reckoning, and turn tough moments into real growth opportunities.

Chief Change Officer

#68 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part One

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Eric Le returned with fresh purpose, balancing her career on a three-day work week, launching a podcast and expanding her reach to create a bigger impact. Today, part one, Eric Le shares her career journey. the twist and the turns and the accident that changed everything.

Chief Change Officer

#68 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part One

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So I love hearing about how career transitions shaped you. And you also mentioned that you've been through personal events, life events, that bore another layer of challenge and insight. Would you mind sharing more about those experiences?

Chief Change Officer

#68 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm speaking with Erica Sosna. a fellow podcast host and the author of The Career Equation, who, like me, is passionate about careers.

Chief Change Officer

#68 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part One

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Then in part two, airing tomorrow, she will share the hard-earned wisdom she gained from overcoming paralysis, starting a new chapter, shaping a path to personal and professional growth. Erica will also dive into the career equation she created and how we can all work towards becoming better versions of ourselves in our careers. Good afternoon, Erica. Welcome to our show.

Chief Change Officer

#68 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part One

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Just now, Erica shared her career journey, the twists, the turns, and the accident that changed everything. Tomorrow, in part two, She will share the hard-earned wisdom she gained from overcoming paralysis, starting a new chapter, shaping a path to personal and professional growth. Erica will also dive into the career equation she created.

Chief Change Officer

#68 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part One

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and tell us how we can all work towards becoming better versions of ourselves in our career. Come back and join us tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#68 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part One

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Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Thank you so much, Vince. I'm delighted to be here. Erica is also a podcast host, and she covers careers. So does that make us competitors? I don't think so. I see it more like we are part of this big circle, a world where so many people are focused on their future, their life, and their career.

Chief Change Officer

#68 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part One

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I think we're both contributing to something bigger by sharing insights, lessons, and experiences in a human, direct way. Hopefully, this helps someone get inspired or maybe even get unstuck. So Erica, let's start with you. Tell us a bit about yourself, your story, and your experience before we drill down into your insights.

Chief Change Officer

#68 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part One

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Transitions, there's so many kinds. We often think of transition as just changing jobs, but it's more than that. It's not just jumping from Google to Microsoft in the same industry. Sometimes it's moving to a totally different industry or even changing countries, cities, and life itself. Erica, in your journey so far,

Chief Change Officer

#68 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part One

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If I were to ask about how you've navigated and managed your own transitions, could you share a couple of stories, maybe one related to your own career and one to your personal life? I think it would give us a deeper understanding of your experience and why you are so well-equipped you help others through the career equation, which you created?

Chief Change Officer

#68 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part One

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But what makes Erica's story unique is her remarkable journey of resilience, purpose, and transformation. In 2022, A life-changing accident left her paralyzed. Facing months of recovery, through immense pain and uncertainty, Erica fought her way back. Back to walking, back to work, and back to a renewed mission. After a year away from her consultancy,

Chief Change Officer

#68 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part One

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I totally relate to your story. Before I launched this podcast, I also faced setbacks and failures that took a lot of reflection to walk through. Like you said, it was devastating when it happened. But once I worked through those feelings, it became an opportunity to look inward, to be honest with yourself and eventually grow out of it.

Chief Change Officer

#229 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm chatting with Michael Secreta, the insightful money philosopher and author of the book titled Money, Balance, and Joy.

Chief Change Officer

#229 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part One

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According to your approach, there are three types of change. Why does change matter in managing personal wealth?

Chief Change Officer

#229 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part One

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build meaningful legacy, and manage life's financial curveballs with confidence. Michael, welcome to our show. Let's start with your journey, your money journey, your life journey, and your career journey.

Chief Change Officer

#229 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part One

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In our next episode, part two of our interview, Michael will take on Wall Street, the financial media and financial influencers, pointing out how they often miss the emotional side of financial planning. From risk tolerance survey that don't even account for real life emotions and behavior to the misleading advice all over social media, Michael gives a refreshing and honest opinion.

Chief Change Officer

#229 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#229 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part One

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Michael dives into the philosophy of financial well-being, showing that money alone isn't the golden ticket to happiness. He talks about the need for a balanced ecosystem, which includes monetary wealth, time wealth and social wealth. explaining that full fulfillment comes when all three work together.

Chief Change Officer

#229 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part One

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Your book is called Money, Balance, and Joy. Let's start with a all-time favorite question. In what ways and to what extent that money can buy happiness?

Chief Change Officer

#229 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part One

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Tell us about your value systems in managing personal wealth. I believe you call this the total wealth concept.

Chief Change Officer

#229 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part One

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He also takes on Wall Street, the financial media, and financial influences, pointing out how they often miss the emotional side of financial planning. from risk tolerance questionnaires that don't account for real-life feelings to the misleading advice all over social media. Michael gives a candid and refreshing take. He also shares practical advice on how we can reclaim control of our finances.

Chief Change Officer

#229 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part One

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When we are not wealthy. Why aren't we unhappy?

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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Given your knowledge of the challenges job seekers typically face, can you walk us through your process for helping them? Do you start with a mindset change or focus on the overall goal first and work backward step by step?

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest, John Gates, is someone who can help you get the most out of your compensation packet, especially when you are making a career switch or transition.

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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So my question is, with all the emotion tied up in these discussions, how do we break free from focusing on old numbers and truly maximize our return when making a career move? Let's find out together. John, good morning. Welcome to our show. How did you end up where you are today? What were the key transformation points?

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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I recall you once described yourself as a prosecutor in the past, but now you see yourself as a defense attorney. Similar to a lawyer, a defense attorney, your fees are tied to the work done and the outcome, like a performance or incentive fee. The difference is the legal profession has strict rules and penalties for misconduct, for criminal behavior.

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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Give us a quick overview of your personal and career journey, both the past and the present.

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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Yet in your profession, in your area, there aren't government regulations or penalties. Basically, only self-regulated codes of conduct and ethical standards. My question for you is, how do you assure your clients that your recommendations are in the best interests and not driven by your economic incentives?

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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For those who may not be able to afford your services, may buy your book or listen to this episode for your insights. Can you give us a couple of pieces of actionable advice? Something they can use to help themselves ease the pressure and open up new horizons of thoughts before seeking professional help.

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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Thank you for coming, John. Congratulations on your new book. The title is ACT. your wage. I hope you enjoyed our interview.

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you liked what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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You are a salary coach, which I see as an evergreen profession. Whether the market is up or down, you help people maximize their compensation packages. Many entrepreneurs, coaches, and tech founders start a business because they have faced the same problem. Learn the hard way and then turn it into a product or service.

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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How has your own experience shaped your journey into salary strategy and negotiation?

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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When prepping for this interview, I skimmed through his book, It reminded me of my business school days studying negotiation. The concepts really aligned. Like in a negotiation, focusing on multiple elements instead of just zeroing in on one single number. But here's the challenge. Salary negotiations feel so much more personal.

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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Over the years, you've probably come across a lot of negotiation advice that you disagree with. What are some of the worst pieces of advice you've seen out there?

Chief Change Officer

#228 John Gates: Sweaty Palms? How to Negotiate Your Salary Without the Panic

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Unlike business deals where you can stay strategic and detached, salary talks bring up fear, emotion, and anxiety. If you are a CFO or CEO negotiating a deal, it's different. You have a stake. but is not as personal as negotiating your own salary.

Chief Change Officer

#227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

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Your book's first page is dedicated to quite a range of individuals and I want to read it out loud for the benefit of our listeners. This book is dedicated to introverts, people with ADHD, those on the autism spectrum, trauma survivors, strategy brain square packs, frustrated change makers, revolutionaries, a combination of rebels and revolutionaries. And lastly, thinker doers.

Chief Change Officer

#227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

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In the last episode, part one, We looked into who Sarah is, what she's been through, and how her past has shaped her purpose today. In this episode, part two, we'll dig into the book, her why, her audience, her objectives, and her vision. That said, Sarah's story and her book aren't just personal. They are also deeply rational. She's packed it with tools, analysis, and a lot of business concepts.

Chief Change Officer

#227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

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There are a couple of interesting terms there. So why did she choose this audience? I'm guessing you must personally resonate with these people. Maybe you were, or still are, one of them. Why did you dedicate this book to this specific group?

Chief Change Officer

#227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This episode and the last one are for the introverts, the ADHDs, those on the autism spectrum, trauma survivors, strategy brain square packs, frustrated change makers.

Chief Change Officer

#227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

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When it comes to business books, it's difficult to make a lot of money Unless you are already a big celebrity with branding, with resources for marketing, widespread marketing, a big publishing house behind you, and a strong social media presence. Even then, those thought authors tend to focus on board generic topics that appeal to the mass market because that's where the scalability is.

Chief Change Officer

#227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

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For anyone familiar with business school models and buzzwords, you'll find her approach balances speaking to a specific audience while delivering real business value. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

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But with your book, you are doing something different. You are speaking to a specific group of people, people like you, who you want to help and connect with. Sure, we might not have the exact statistics on how many people fall into that group, but it's bold. It takes courage to put in the time and money, hire people and contractors and say, I'm going to speak up no matter the judgment.

Chief Change Officer

#227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

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And that's what I see in your book, a special kind of love letter. But one that's not just personal, it's also rational. You've got tools, analysis, and a lot of business concepts baked into it. For someone who is familiar with business school models and buzzwords, I can see you've really balanced speaking to a specific audience with delivering real business and economic value?

Chief Change Officer

#227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

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Is that why you came up with the title for this book, You Are a Astrologist? Was it inspired by your vision of democratizing astrology for everyone?

Chief Change Officer

#227 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part Two

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revolutionaries, that is rebels and revolutionaries combined, as well as thinker-doers. Why? Because our guest today, Sarah Lobkovich, is part of these groups. And she's not holding back anymore. In fact, she spent months writing two books that bring together her life lessons and business strategy experience to help us all wake up our inner strategist and achieve big goals. No BS.

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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as I was listening to your story. First off, if we were in a studio together right now, I would give you a big high five. You really hit on something that's basically me. When you mentioned getting excited about an opportunity, putting in 200% of your time and effort only to realize They just want 20 or 25% from you, and they don't even appreciate all the extra thoughts and work.

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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Yeah, that was me too, for sure. Thanks for sharing that, Sarah. But as I kept listening, I also picked up on something else. There have been quite a few moments when you were stuck or felt stuck. And it sounds like through a lot of self-discovery, you rose above those challenges and kept moving forward. Is that a fair way to summarize your evolution?

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This episode and the next episodes

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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will dig into the book, her why, her audience, her objectives, and her vision. That said, Sarah's story and her book aren't just personal. They are also deeply rational. She's packed it with tools, analysis, and a lot of business concepts.

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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Now, you've written a book, or should I say you're about to publish a new book. The title is You Are a Strologist. Use no BS objectives and key results to get big things done. As you mentioned, you've been practicing astrology as a profession for years. Before we dive into your book, I'd like to talk a bit about the role of astrologist as a profession.

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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When we are in a childhood, we usually say we want to be a pilot, a doctor, a lawyer. But the astrologist usually is not something of a so-called dream job. Yet, astrology consultants, especially in firms like McKinsey or BCG, often have this prestigious image attached to them. thanks to their branding and marketing.

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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For anyone familiar with business school models and buzzwords, you'll find her approach balances speaking to a specific audience while delivering real business value. Let's get started. Welcome, Sarah. Welcome to our show. Let's dive right into your story.

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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These firms have really crafted a perception around their consultants, hence the seven figure, eight figure fee. After spending a good amount of time in corporate consulting yourself, What are some of the biggest misconceptions about being a astrology consultant? What's the reality versus the myth? Could you share that with us, honestly?

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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Let's continue Sarah's story tomorrow, shall we? Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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How did you end up doing what you're doing now? Maybe we can dive deeper and go down memory lane. Where are you originally from? I know you are now on the West Coast in the United States, but let's talk about the early part of your life. Where did it all start for you?

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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are for the introverts, the ADHDs, those on the autism spectrum, trauma survivors, astrology brain square packs, frustrated change makers, revolutionaries, that's rebels and revolutionaries combined, and thinker doers. Why? Because our guest today, Sarah Lobkovich, is part of these groups and she is not holding back anymore.

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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You mentioned that starting point in 2016. And here we are now heading into 2025, almost 10 years later. I'll let you tell more about about what these last 10 years have been like for you in a moment. But before 2016, like you said, you've gone through several transformation points. Transformations are unique for everyone. Even for me, each of those moments felt very different from one another.

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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Looking back now, especially since people who write books tend to have reflected deeply on their experiences, I'm curious, what were some of those key transformation points or challenges you faced that really stand out to you? More importantly, how did you manage to get unstuck We are living in a world where so many people feel stuck in some way.

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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So I think your story could really resonate with anyone who might be going through that right now.

Chief Change Officer

#226 Sara Lobkovich: Why Playing Life on Hard Mode Might Be Your Best Advantage – Part One

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In fact, she's spent months writing two books that bring together her life lessons and business strategy experience. to help us all wake up our inner astrologist and achieve big goals with no BS. In this episode, part one, we'll dive into who Sarah is, what she's been through and how her past has shaped her purpose today. In the next episode, part two,

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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When we talked last time, you mentioned how much you focus on confidence in your coaching, especially for women at work. Yet, I've noticed that confidence is often overused, almost a buzzword in every training, learning, and tech product. I was wondering, how do you define confidence differently?

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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Speaking of coaching your clients to boost their confidence, I know you've developed a signature program called the Executive Presence Blueprint. Why did you create this program? What was your thought process behind it? And could you share some of the key principles that guide your approach?

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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Lucy, let's start with the juicy part of the interview with you telling us about your journey from biotechnology to women leadership coaching.

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, let's give a warm welcome to our first guest from Ireland, Lucy Garner.

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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In all of your time helping clients, have you ever had a situation where the learning outcome didn't quite meet your expectations? And what did you learn from that experience?

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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So who are your ideal clients? Could you describe them for us? Perhaps some of our listeners might be interested in seeking your help.

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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These days, I always like to end our conversation with a multi-billion dollar question. We're entering the AI era, with innovations like AI agents and AI coaches emerging. From a coaching perspective, how do you see this AI-human partnership evolving? And in what ways do you think human coaches like yourself still hold a competitive advantage over AI advancements?

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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Let's give a big round of applause to our first guest from Ireland for her courage and strength as a mother of three, not only realizing her own ambitions, but also helping other ambitious women achieve their dreams through human connections. Thank you, Lucy.

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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So you have this hidden burning fire inside you for long. Yet, I recall you told me once that when you shared your first post on LinkedIn, that was the scariest moment in your life. So tell us more about how this transformation of you

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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Lucy is not only a mother of three and a millennial, but she also has a background in biotech and has spent many years in medical science. Yet in the last few years, She made a bold leap into entrepreneurship, now coaching emerging and established women leaders. Here on my show, I don't share and tell success stories to glorify success. I dive into real, lived experiences

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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You are a mother of three and you're an entrepreneur. You've really shown us how to balance a family and a business. Many of our listeners face similar challenges, worrying about mortgages and stable paychecks, understanding that success isn't just handed to them. With your impressive journey, if you could share some practical advice for those dreaming of starting their own business,

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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what would it be? How can they make that leap while still managing family commitments?

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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You are a coach yourself now. Ever been on the other side of that? Being coached? How has being coached helped you become better at helping your own clients?

Chief Change Officer

#177 Lucy Gernon: Why Confidence Isn’t About Being Loud (Or Quoting Oprah)

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complete with successes, setbacks, surprises, and all the twists and turns. Lucy's story is exactly that. And it's one I'm excited to explore beyond just the accolades she's received. Let's begin this journey together now.

Chief Change Officer

#99 Holly Bond: The Art of Moving Your Career Beyond the AI Checklist and Resume

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What made you decide to return to recruiting? And how do you want it to be different this time?

Chief Change Officer

#99 Holly Bond: The Art of Moving Your Career Beyond the AI Checklist and Resume

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Now, you've just brought up the final question of the day. Job seekers, whether they like it or not, have to navigate an AI-driven recruitment market. Personally, I still believe in the creativity, the human creativity you mentioned. as well as the human elements that make someone stand out as a desirable candidate.

Chief Change Officer

#99 Holly Bond: The Art of Moving Your Career Beyond the AI Checklist and Resume

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But not every recruiter is like you, and not every firm has policies and approaches like yours. So if you could give advice to job seekers, regardless of age or culture, what would it be? Especially for those in their late 40s, 50s, or even 60s, who might have been in one industry for a long time, but whose skills and experiences could be applicable across different sectors.

Chief Change Officer

#99 Holly Bond: The Art of Moving Your Career Beyond the AI Checklist and Resume

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for candidates seeking changes and new opportunities? How can they position themselves better and stronger for this new norm?

Chief Change Officer

#99 Holly Bond: The Art of Moving Your Career Beyond the AI Checklist and Resume

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Absolutely, that is reciprocity, the core essence of building relationships, every kind of relationship. Holly, thank you so much for not only your time, but your honest sharing. A lot of quotes I can create from your interview. So much information, really valuable information.

Chief Change Officer

#99 Holly Bond: The Art of Moving Your Career Beyond the AI Checklist and Resume

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wow this is truly amazing to get this kind of feedback from a guest on the spot during the show i'm very very grateful holly thank you so much thank you so much for joining us today if you like what you heard Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#99 Holly Bond: The Art of Moving Your Career Beyond the AI Checklist and Resume

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In the last episode, Part 1, we heard Holly's story of being a mother of two and taking 17 years to earn her college degree, all while starting and building a successful fitness franchise business. Now, in Part 2, Holly will share with us why she decided to re-enter the recruitment industry. This time, she is the boss, heading up a headhunting business.

Chief Change Officer

#99 Holly Bond: The Art of Moving Your Career Beyond the AI Checklist and Resume

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She will tell us about her human-first approach to serving not only her corporate clients but also the candidates themselves. She will also offer valuable down-to-earth advice to job seekers. Holly, you've come full circle. You started as a recruiter, went through numerous transformations and challenges, and now you're back in recruiting. This time though, you're doing it your way.

Chief Change Officer

#99 Holly Bond: The Art of Moving Your Career Beyond the AI Checklist and Resume

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Wow. Based on what you just said, it sounds like I could be a perfect headhunter myself. Though, I have to admit, I haven't had any pleasant experiences with headhunters in my life so far.

Chief Change Officer

#99 Holly Bond: The Art of Moving Your Career Beyond the AI Checklist and Resume

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Are you looking for a job? We can surely talk about this offline. Aside from that, I believe a host, a headhunter, and a CEO are no different. We have a certain kind of superpower in seeing the potential in a person before they see it themselves or believe in it themselves. Don't you agree?

Chief Change Officer

#99 Holly Bond: The Art of Moving Your Career Beyond the AI Checklist and Resume

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Just a few weeks ago, I released an episode where I talked to a good friend of mine, Mary Shea, who is now partnering with an AI-driven HR tech company. They help corporate recruiters and executive search firms locate desirable candidates, not just for transactional positions, but also for unique senior opportunities. In that interview, Mary explained how the technology works.

Chief Change Officer

#99 Holly Bond: The Art of Moving Your Career Beyond the AI Checklist and Resume

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I also shared my experience at age of 51 having job interview with some corporate recruiters that felt completely dehumanized. We discussed how AI might make the experience more personalized for experienced workers. Anyone interested can check out episode four in season two. But back to you, Holly, you're very much a people person, human-centric in your view.

Chief Change Officer

#99 Holly Bond: The Art of Moving Your Career Beyond the AI Checklist and Resume

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Not to ask you to be at Oracle, but I would like to know, in your opinion, how might AI technology add value to your process of searching for the right candidates? On top of that, what do you think is the competitive advantage of you as a human recruiter that AI cannot replace?

Chief Change Officer

#99 Holly Bond: The Art of Moving Your Career Beyond the AI Checklist and Resume

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#98 Holly Bond: Building Fitness Franchise – From Basement Prototypes to National Headlines

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How did they help propel you forward and sustain you all the way to the finish line?

Chief Change Officer

#98 Holly Bond: Building Fitness Franchise – From Basement Prototypes to National Headlines

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She has mastered turning change to her advantage, making her a natural fit for my show. After two months of emails back and forth, I finally convinced her to come on board. We did a 70-minute interview, which I've decided to break down into two parts.

Chief Change Officer

#98 Holly Bond: Building Fitness Franchise – From Basement Prototypes to National Headlines

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In part one, this episode, we'll hear Holly's story of being a mother of two and taking 17 years to earn her college degree, all while starting and building a fitness business that turned into a successful franchise. In part two, Holly will share why she entered the headhunting business and her human-first approach to serving not only her corporate clients, but also the candidates themselves.

Chief Change Officer

#98 Holly Bond: Building Fitness Franchise – From Basement Prototypes to National Headlines

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As you describe your experience, It sounds almost magical. You landed that TV interview, and the next day, you received over 100 emails. Now, while that's absolutely amazing, I'm really curious about the flip side. Looking back, what was the most challenging moment for you along this journey?

Chief Change Officer

#98 Holly Bond: Building Fitness Franchise – From Basement Prototypes to National Headlines

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In this part one of our interview, you just heard Holly's story of being a mother of two and taking 17 years to earn her college degree, all while starting and building a fitness business that turned into a successful franchise.

Chief Change Officer

#98 Holly Bond: Building Fitness Franchise – From Basement Prototypes to National Headlines

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In the next episode, part two of our interview, Holly will share why she entered the headhunting business and her human-first approach to serving not only her corporate clients, but also the candidates themselves. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

Chief Change Officer

#98 Holly Bond: Building Fitness Franchise – From Basement Prototypes to National Headlines

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#98 Holly Bond: Building Fitness Franchise – From Basement Prototypes to National Headlines

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Talking to Holly really brings back memories of my adolescence and college days in Canada. Holly is special in my eyes. Why? She's now the president of a head hunting firm I'll be honest, in my career so far, I haven't worked well with headhunters. I've mostly landed jobs through networking. But something on Holly's LinkedIn profile and her company's website caught my eye.

Chief Change Officer

#98 Holly Bond: Building Fitness Franchise – From Basement Prototypes to National Headlines

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Today, we all talk about purpose and making an impact. But when you were younger, in the 80s and 90s, it was all about making money and raising a family. You know, the American dream, or in your case, the Canadian dream, owning a house and all that. Looking back at your career, have you identified any particular drivers or motivations behind every move you've made so far?

Chief Change Officer

#98 Holly Bond: Building Fitness Franchise – From Basement Prototypes to National Headlines

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It said, we are a talent management and development firm with unshakable belief that change is a good thing. I was skeptical at first. It could just be empty words. But then I dug deeper and discovered that Holly had built a very successful franchise business from the ground up before moving into the headhunting business. From that moment, I knew Holly truly believes that change is a good thing.

Chief Change Officer

#98 Holly Bond: Building Fitness Franchise – From Basement Prototypes to National Headlines

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is our first ever from Canada, Holly Bond. I used to live in Calgary, Alberta and Toronto, Ontario in Canada.

Chief Change Officer

#98 Holly Bond: Building Fitness Franchise – From Basement Prototypes to National Headlines

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You must be really proud of yourself, of what you've achieved with Bulldog Interactive Fitness. Can you share with us the humble beginnings of starting this business? I remember you mentioned that it all began with the idea of a gym. Tell us about your journey, not just the successes, but also the ups and downs, the challenges. More importantly, how did you learn from those challenges?

Chief Change Officer

#288 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part Two

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Honestly, I've met a lot of people, for instance, in the education technology space where I was very active before COVID. I've spoken to many entrepreneurs who created new ventures and solutions. especially those focused on helping companies train and upskill their staff.

Chief Change Officer

#288 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part Two

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So I asked them, okay, you are building these tools, you are the champion of learning and development, but what about your own team? How do you invest in your own people? Most of the time, They either didn't expect the question or they said something like this. Oh, good point. We haven't really done much internally yet. We've been focused on the product and on serving clients.

Chief Change Officer

#288 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part Two

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So while it includes the classic three stages, you've also built in several other steps and actions. What are they? Can you walk us through those? How do they come together in your model?

Chief Change Officer

#288 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part Two

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That's where I start to see the gap. You talk the talk, selling solutions for upskilling. but you are not walking the walk inside your own organization. That kind of discrepancy always tells me something important about the founder or the culture.

Chief Change Officer

#288 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part Two

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Empathy isn't just for managers. It is a basic human skill. But honestly, we are wired to be self-centered. So even if a leader has a good degree of empathy, showing it in decisions is tough. Why? Because incentives drive behavior. I studied accounting and economics. I believe that. And right now, leaders and CEOs are paid based on numbers, such as revenue, growth rate, stock price.

Chief Change Officer

#288 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Richard Carson, consultant, strategist, and the guy who once walked away from a government job to join the consultants he just hired.

Chief Change Officer

#288 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part Two

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not how people feel. If empathy, culture, or staff well-being were tied to the bonus, you would see a big shift. But until then, there's a gap between what we say matters and what actually drives action.

Chief Change Officer

#288 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part Two

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And that's the end for our two-part series. If you thought change was about tools and templates, Richard just flipped that. is about trust timing and knowing when to stop talking if you are in the business of moving people not just systems his advice is worth returning to thank you so much for joining us today if you like what you heard

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

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So when did you publish your book? The reason I asked about the timing is since the book came out, Have you had a chance to apply your new model? Perhaps have you received some of the recommendations from your clients? I'd love to hear how your new model played out in real life. Any results or experiences you can share?

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Have you received any feedback so far from your clients on the model? I'm curious not just about what they say, but also your own reflections. After publishing the book and spending so much time developing everything, did anything surprise you once you started applying it? Any part of the model that worked differently than expected? Was something you've seen refined as you go?

Chief Change Officer

#288 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part Two

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In this two-part series, we talk about what happens when organizations try to change, but forget about people. Richard shares what most consultants get wrong, why empathy isn't optional, and how a terrible time tracking system inspired his now 39-step change model. It's practical, honest, and filled with stories you won't forget. Let's get started. So back to your model is people sustained.

Chief Change Officer

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I'm not talking about macro trends like AI or climate change, but more specifically, such as feedback from others and your own takeaways from using the model in practice. So after you published your book and started applying your own model, I'm curious, Have your clients or the people you work with given you any feedback on it? That's one part. The other part is about your own reflection.

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When you actually applied the model in real cases, did anything shift for you? Maybe you gained new insights, or maybe it confirmed what you originally believed.

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So COVID as a disease might be behind us, but how we handle health crisis, that's not in the past. We never know what might happen in the future. And the way we prepare or respond still really matters.

Chief Change Officer

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You've studied so many change models, and you are an expert in this space. But outside of your professional work, how have you applied those ideas in your own life? Or maybe help someone close to you, such as a friend, a family member, a colleague? Navigate change using what you know from organizational models.

Chief Change Officer

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I think that would be a great way to conclude this interview to show that you don't just study change. You live it.

Chief Change Officer

#287 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part One

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So let me try to recap, and you tell me if I got it right. You were saying that in modern history, starting from the 20th century, a lot of the current models still trace back to Kurt Lewin's work, the classic three-step model. And since then, most of the newer models basically follow a similar structure.

Chief Change Officer

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three, maybe five stages moving from where you are now to where you want to be with some kind of transition or shift happening in between. So would it be fair to say that even with all the new frameworks, the core idea hasn't changed all that much since Kurt Lewin?

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welcome richard welcome to chief change officer welcome to our show you have this book called book of change naturally this show is perfect for you before we start digging into your book in your learnings tell us something about yourself your journey leading up to the book

Chief Change Officer

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So stakeholder, basically managing the stakeholder perspective, the involvement there, their needs, their concerns. Is that what you mean?

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You have developed a new model. What's the name of it?

Chief Change Officer

#287 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Richard Carson, consultant, strategist, and the guy who once walked away from a government job to join the consultants he just hired.

Chief Change Officer

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Yeah, I was just about to ask you about your model. You mentioned that it's built on Kurt Lewin's three-step change framework. I'm curious, how is your model different from his? or even from the other models out there. Give us an overview. How does your model work? What makes it similar to the classics? And what makes it stand out?

Chief Change Officer

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So back to your model mentioned is people sustained. So while it includes the classic three stages, you've also built in several other steps and actions. What are they? Can you walk us through those? How do they come together in your model?

Chief Change Officer

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That's it for today. We've heard how Richard stumbled into consulting, survived a time-tracking nightmare, and started seeing patterns in all the wrong problems. But next, we get into the real playbook. The book of change. Why 39 steps might not be too many. and the human stuff consultants usually skip. See you in part two. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#287 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part One

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

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I like what you said earlier, how even though you were an urban planner, you didn't exactly plan your own career path. It wasn't all mapped out. You just evolved along the way. Something would happen, and you would think, yeah, this feels right. So you would dive deeper, and then something else would come up, maybe connected to what you already liked, and you would follow that too.

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These days, people throw away the word perfect a lot. But your path wasn't perfect. It was real. It unfolded step by step. That got me curious. When you say something interested you, what actually sparked that interest? Was it just a gut feeling? Was it a hunger to learn something new? Or are you one of those people who's actually addicted to change?

Chief Change Officer

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Yeah, I agree with you on this. Totally.

Chief Change Officer

#287 Richard H. Carson: The 39-Step Playbook for Change That Doesn’t Collapse — Part One

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In this two-part series, we talk about what happens when organizations try to change, but forget about people. Richard shares what most consultants get wrong, why empathy isn't optional, and how a terrible time tracking system inspired his now 39-step change model. It's practical, honest, and filled with stories you won't forget. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

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Yeah, of course, everyone has their own idea of what getting better means. And in the office environment, it's not just about change. There's politics, power dynamics, and other things that aren't even part of the equation when we talk about improving or evolving. Some people resist change not because they don't understand it, but because change threatens the status quo.

Chief Change Officer

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And for them, that's uncomfortable.

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Now, you've written a book called The Book of Change. You also hold a doctoral degree in organizational change. So I imagine you've studied a wide range of change models. Obviously, we don't have time to go through all of them here. You probably need a full course just to do that. But I'd love to get your quick take. From your perspective and your studies, how have these models evolved over time?

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Has the way we think about change stayed more or less the same over the years? Or has it shifted drastically? Feel free to connect this with what you mentioned earlier. about employees being part of the solution? Or what happens when there is resistance, even in personal change? Has the approach to change itself changed?

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#336 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Logical, Leading with Love

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Since leaving that structured academic environment, she has transitioned to her current role as a coach for a more diverse and larger group of entrepreneurs. Throughout my personal experience, having both official and unofficial mentors and coaches has been profoundly beneficial. is not just about the outcomes, but the process.

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For listeners, NVC stands for New Venture Challenge. That's what Waverly referred to in her example. NVC is a top-ranked flagship accelerator program for entrepreneurs. That's programmed under Polsky Center for Entrepreneurship and Innovation at the University of Chicago. I'll attach the web link in the show notes in case anyone is interested.

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Now, let's step away from the structured environment of a business school. You are now an independent consultant and coach. You are not dealing with a defined group of talents. The world has become your client base. Entrepreneurs of varying ages, generations, and cultures and educational level eat with their unique venture ideas.

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While some may resettle MBAs using more logic than passion than love, others might remind you of younger MBAs or even undergrads. Yet the audience you engage with now is much broader and more diverse. I'm curious about how you've adapted or scaled your approach in this new role

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How do you tailor your methods to meet the needs of such a varied audience, especially when it comes to refining their pitches and developing their venture ideas?

Chief Change Officer

#336 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Logical, Leading with Love

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This episode is the second part of our three-part series titled Love & Logic, featuring Waverly Deutsch as our special guest.

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And more importantly, I've learned so much from the real life experiences of humans, my supervisors, teachers, colleagues, classmates, and even my life partner, who was once my teacher. These individuals have provided me with immense love and helped me refine my logic. human experience has always been critical to my personal and professional development.

Chief Change Officer

#336 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Logical, Leading with Love

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You really are an excellent listener. I think part of that comes from your deep understanding of the situation at hand. And another big part is your communication skills. You're not just articulate. Once you understand what someone is going through, you take the time to think and analyze before responding in a way that really resonates with them.

Chief Change Officer

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I think that's what makes you such a good listener. It's not just about using your ears, but also engaging your brain and then responding thoughtfully. I can definitely vouch for that.

Chief Change Officer

#336 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Logical, Leading with Love

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Absolutely. As a coach, I've realized that true listening is rare. We often hear about the importance of listening skills on social media, but ironically, social media by itself is a one-way means of communication. Switching back to coaching, I've done a fair amount of coaching myself, working with entrepreneurs and professionals.

Chief Change Officer

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What I've noticed is that I can make a strong impression right from the first meeting. Often, the subjects spend 10 or even 15 minutes sharing their problems and situations, and I listen intently. Then, I'll distill everything they've said into maybe 5 to 10 sentences at most. They're usually amazed and say, yes, exactly. That's exactly what I meant. It goes beyond verbal or written skills.

Chief Change Officer

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It's about truly listening, capturing the essence of what they are saying, and then reflecting it back to them in their own language. That's how they realize, wow, you really get me. That's how you build trust as a coach. That's been my experience.

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As we enter the age of AI, Waverly and I will also discuss the role of human coaches. In this still developing scenario, AI is the powerhouse of logic. While decent coaches like Waverly represent love, providing that essential human touch in the coaching process. Without further ado, let's get started. Now, let's dive into a significant chapter of your career at Chicago Booth.

Chief Change Officer

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Do you think AI could be your competitor in coaching? It's multilingual and has incredible computational abilities with our theme of love and logic. where AI represents logic and you as a human coach embody love. How do you see AI supporting your coaching effort? And on the flip side, how could it possibly diminish the distinctiveness of your skills?

Chief Change Officer

#336 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Logical, Leading with Love

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We kick off today's episode with Waverly sharing how her roles as a teacher, coach, and guide have helped different kinds of entrepreneurs and business people strike the right balance between logic-driven calculations and emotionally driven desires for new ventures. Then we shifted the angle, step up and look into the role of human coaches in the age of AI.

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where you've dedicated 22 years to teaching and coaching the environment there was highly structured and students ranging from college undergrads to full-time mbas about mid-20s and late 20s and executives who are mid-30s to mid-40s All of them represented a distinctly logical and talented group of people.

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In this still developing scenario, AI is the powerhouse of logic, while seasoned coaches like Waverly represent love, providing the essential human touch in the coaching process. As we speak, we are already seeing a new wave of tech products called AI agents. So, what will happen with this new norm? As Waverly argues, building a business is fundamentally about building human relationships.

Chief Change Officer

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She likens it to kosher, moving from one stage to the next. So, while the future might be digital, human connections will remain at the heart of business and personal growth. In the third part of our series, we'll come full circle and focus back on Waverly herself. She's now more than a coach. She's an entrepreneur herself, actively building her own new venture.

Chief Change Officer

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It's a fascinating mix of her ever-changing experiences. Stay tuned. We'll explore that in the next episode. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

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Many of these students, like myself, came from very strong corporate backgrounds where we were primarily trained to think with our heads over our head. With that in mind, I'm curious about your perspective about them. They came to you. very eager to explore and explode their passions for innovation, for change, and for entrepreneurship. What common challenges did you observe them facing?

Chief Change Officer

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That's the first part of my question. For the second part, given those challenges you've identified, how have you leveraged your own experiences to guide them? Do you find yourself offering more love, i.e. emotional support, over logic, i.e. calculated strategies? Or is it a mix of both? or depending on individuals or segments of individuals?

Chief Change Officer

#336 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Logical, Leading with Love

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Here, she explores from three perspectives how the intricate balance of love and logic shapes our career decisions and life choices. The last episode delved into Waverly's personal journey. looking into the love and logic that have guided her career path and experiences.

Chief Change Officer

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Can you share with us some specific examples?

Chief Change Officer

#336 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Logical, Leading with Love

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In this episode, which focuses on her role as a teacher and expert guide, we'll dive into a major chapter of her life, 22 years at Chicago Booth. There, she taught and coached a sharply focused group of highly logical talents. all deeply engaged in their passion for innovation, change, and entrepreneurship.

Chief Change Officer

#335 Waverly Deutsch: Computer, Broadway, and the Beautiful Mess of Career Design

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In the field of business education, dominated by discussions of numbers, strategies, formulas, and models, all the logical stuff, the concept of love has never surfaced in any curriculum or textbook I've come across. Yet, she brought it into our discussions on angel investing.

Chief Change Officer

#335 Waverly Deutsch: Computer, Broadway, and the Beautiful Mess of Career Design

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Ten years ago, during the summer term of the executive MBA program at Chicago Booth, I had the pleasure of meeting today's guest, Waverly Deutsch.

Chief Change Officer

#335 Waverly Deutsch: Computer, Broadway, and the Beautiful Mess of Career Design

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It makes you wonder, how does love fit into building a business, advancing a business career, and fulfilling our life's legacy? With that in mind, I've put together a three-part series called Love & Logic, featuring Waverly as our special guest. She will be sharing and exploring from three perspectives how the intricate balance of love and logic shapes our career decisions and life choices.

Chief Change Officer

#335 Waverly Deutsch: Computer, Broadway, and the Beautiful Mess of Career Design

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While listening to you, I felt like we were having coffee together. Your story had me nodding, laughing, and utterly fascinated. You present this blend of strong analytical thinking with a very human, social side. Considering your career shifts and external pressures you faced, you mentioned some kind of luck or perhaps karma.

Chief Change Officer

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It got me thinking, how aware are you when it comes to making what you call calculated decisions? This ties into our theme of love and logic, the heart and the head. When you reach a critical point in your career path, how much do you lean on your analytical side? I'm not just talking about money or job titles, but evaluating the broader prospects of a position, diving deep into the industry.

Chief Change Officer

#335 Waverly Deutsch: Computer, Broadway, and the Beautiful Mess of Career Design

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How much of it is a calculated assessment? Or perhaps is it more about a gut feeling that tells you, hey, this is the right move. So do you consider yourself primarily analytical when making career decisions? Or do you tend to go with the flow? Or maybe you have your own unique approach or system for navigating these decisions. How does that work with you?

Chief Change Officer

#335 Waverly Deutsch: Computer, Broadway, and the Beautiful Mess of Career Design

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There are two other words that perfectly capture the essence of love and logic. They are heart and head. Can you recall a pivotal moment or situation when you were torn between following your heart or your head? What ultimately guided your decision then?

Chief Change Officer

#335 Waverly Deutsch: Computer, Broadway, and the Beautiful Mess of Career Design

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Today's episode zooms in on Waverly's personal journey, the love and logic that have guided her career path and experiences. In our next episode, which is about her being a teacher and expert guide, we'll dive into a major chapter of her career, 22 years at Chicago Bull.

Chief Change Officer

#335 Waverly Deutsch: Computer, Broadway, and the Beautiful Mess of Career Design

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Growing up, I learned a straight rule. No crying at work is simply unprofessional. That was the norm in all the places I've worked and studied, both in the US and abroad. But let's be real. Whether you are a man or a woman, we are human, and humans have emotions. Crying is simply one way we express those emotions.

Chief Change Officer

#335 Waverly Deutsch: Computer, Broadway, and the Beautiful Mess of Career Design

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There, she taught and coached a sharply focused group of highly logical talents, all deeply engaged in the passion for innovation, change, and entrepreneurship. From that structured academic environment, she has transitioned to her current role as a coach for a more diverse group of entrepreneurs. In the third part of our series, we'll come full circle and focus back on Waverly herself.

Chief Change Officer

#335 Waverly Deutsch: Computer, Broadway, and the Beautiful Mess of Career Design

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I believe that as our views on gender roles continue to evolve, it's becoming clear that we also need to rethink our attitudes towards showing emotions in the workplace.

Chief Change Officer

#335 Waverly Deutsch: Computer, Broadway, and the Beautiful Mess of Career Design

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There's a piece of the love and logic puzzle I haven't talked about much yet. So far, I've discussed following your heart as a standalone element. But our hearts, they are heavily influenced by our peers, the people around us, and the social environment we're in. Take my MBA classmates. For example, among my classmates, I am the outliner.

Chief Change Officer

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Most of them are in finance, CEO, CFO, senior bankers, senior management consultants, managing partner at PE and VC houses. If I had stayed long enough at certain companies, I would have ended up in those roles as well. But I made different choices along the way, guided by both heart and head.

Chief Change Officer

#335 Waverly Deutsch: Computer, Broadway, and the Beautiful Mess of Career Design

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The reason I bring up my own story at this juncture is that I've noticed many people struggle not just with the emotional versus logical decision-making, also with not seeing role models who reflect their aspirations. There's also often a deep-seated fear of judgment and fear of failure. These fears influence our hearts and ultimately impact our decisions. I'm curious about your experience.

Chief Change Officer

#335 Waverly Deutsch: Computer, Broadway, and the Beautiful Mess of Career Design

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How much have external factors like peer pressure, societal judgments or even social norms influenced you? You mentioned earlier that you aren't bound by gender norms, but what about other societal expectations? How have you managed to filter out the noise and make your laws of change along your career path?

Chief Change Officer

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She's now more than a coach. She's an entrepreneur herself, actively building her own new venture. is a fascinating mix of her ever-changing experiences. Good morning, Wayfully. Welcome to my show. Good morning, Vince. I am thrilled to be here. Usually, I kick off our interview with a little introduction about my guest. Today, I'd like to switch things up a bit.

Chief Change Officer

#335 Waverly Deutsch: Computer, Broadway, and the Beautiful Mess of Career Design

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We begin today's interview by exploring Waverly's personal journey. intricate blend of love and logic that has guided her from her undergraduate days all the way to retirement. To our listeners, I hope today's episode inspired you to integrate your own love and logic in whatever paths you choose to pursue. In our next episode, which is the second part of our three-part series,

Chief Change Officer

#335 Waverly Deutsch: Computer, Broadway, and the Beautiful Mess of Career Design

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will dig deep into a significant chapter of Waverly's career, her 22 years at Chicago Booth. There, she taught and coached a selected group of highly logical talents, undergrads, full-time, part-time, and executive MBAs from around the world, all of whom were passionate about innovation, change, and entrepreneurship. Yet, despite their brilliance, these individuals faced their own challenges.

Chief Change Officer

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Waverly has learned to tailor her coaching approach, sometimes offering a bigger dose of love, other times amping up the logic. How exactly did she manage this? Stay tuned. We'll explore that in the next episode. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

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I was browsing through the website of your new venture, Wiseheart, and a specific sentence really stood out to me. It said, as a young person, I had an enormous love for the theater and a passion for logic. Love and logic, what a fascinating combination. So Waverly, can you unpack that for us? Tell us, who are you really at the intersection of these two worlds?

Chief Change Officer

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As you indicated, that was late 70s and early 80s. There must be very, very few females in your computer science class. How did you navigate this deeply man-dominated world?

Chief Change Officer

#335 Waverly Deutsch: Computer, Broadway, and the Beautiful Mess of Career Design

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One of, sorry, you're saying one of three or four women in the advanced computer science class. Like how many students were in that class?

Chief Change Officer

#335 Waverly Deutsch: Computer, Broadway, and the Beautiful Mess of Career Design

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She taught one of the standout courses in the executive program called Building New Ventures. In just a moment, I'll let Waverly introduce herself. But first, I would like to share a memorable memory that really sets her apart.

Chief Change Officer

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Even when I grew up, I'm younger than you by about 10 years. Tomboy was still a commonly used term in my generation. Don't forget, we're now in June 2024. The month of June is the month of Pride. So we are proud of our identities.

Chief Change Officer

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Throughout my extensive MBA studies at both Yale and Chicago Booth, where I completed the full-time and executive programs respectively, I've sat through countless lectures taught by highly intelligent scholars and well-experienced practitioners. Yet, Waverly is the only professor I've encountered who dared to use the word love in a business school classroom.

Chief Change Officer

#335 Waverly Deutsch: Computer, Broadway, and the Beautiful Mess of Career Design

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Teaching has always been your calling. But I was wondering, during this journey from PhD to teaching, there's something called Forrester. I believe you joined this firm and helped it grow from a boutique into a major institution over a couple of years. You joined as employee 20-something, 27, I believe that's what you told me. So with your calling for teaching, with your PhD degree,

Chief Change Officer

#335 Waverly Deutsch: Computer, Broadway, and the Beautiful Mess of Career Design

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You could have stayed in the university, building your academic career from assistant professor to associate to a tenure professor, a very well predicted career path. But then what happened in between? We'll talk about Chicago, your teaching career, 22 years teaching careers in Chicago. But before that, let's talk about what happened in the 90s.

Chief Change Officer

#334 Dominic Carter: Future-Proofing Life After 50

Dominic, now in his 50s, is facing the same challenge as many of us are, aging parents. Only he's not just navigating it, he's building businesses around it. We'll dive into the future of aging tech, the cultural barriers that slow innovation. and why the biggest business opportunity in Japan might just be the one no one's paying enough attention to. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#334 Dominic Carter: Future-Proofing Life After 50

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You are looking to establish successful use cases, something tangible that can attract more resources, build momentum, and bring more voices to support your vision. That's how real impact happens. So I'm curious about the two projects you are currently working on. What are they, and more specifically, what problems are they solving? Since you mentioned that you carefully selected them,

Chief Change Officer

#334 Dominic Carter: Future-Proofing Life After 50

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There must be a strong reason behind why you believe they have a real short SSS. Can you tell us more about that?

Chief Change Officer

#334 Dominic Carter: Future-Proofing Life After 50

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Sure, there's so much to unpack in this topic, and I'd love to dive deeper in future episodes with you. But for now, as we conclude this conversation, after speaking with so many entrepreneurs and creators, and after carefully selecting just two projects to test in Japan, what have you learned?

Chief Change Officer

#334 Dominic Carter: Future-Proofing Life After 50

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are talking with Dominic Carter, CEO of the Carter Group, whose journey from Australia to Japan is anything but predictable. He didn't just move aboard.

Chief Change Officer

#334 Dominic Carter: Future-Proofing Life After 50

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For those listening or watching this on YouTube, whether they're builders, entrepreneurs, or investors, or maybe they're already working on something in this space, what advice would you give them? What risks should they watch out for? And on the flip side, what immediate opportunities should they pay attention to? your insights could be incredibly valuable to those making way in this space.

Chief Change Officer

#334 Dominic Carter: Future-Proofing Life After 50

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I know there's a personal reason that led you to this next big thing. Can you share that story with us? What made this the right path for you?

Chief Change Officer

#334 Dominic Carter: Future-Proofing Life After 50

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Yesterday, I spoke with another guest about social impact, and she summed it up with three words, culture, cause, and capital. As you talk about opportunities and risks in Japan's aging space, I realized these three words fit perfectly. Cause, which is making life better for the aging population. Culture, which is understanding local nuances so products actually work for Japanese consumers.

Chief Change Officer

#334 Dominic Carter: Future-Proofing Life After 50

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Capital, which is money. Money is important, but if a product doesn't meet real needs, it won't succeed. The economics is not right. Sometimes it's about tweaking the approach, the messaging, or even the design. And like you said, aging solutions aren't just about nursing homes or healthcare. There are so many unmet needs for people over 50, over 60, tons of opportunity.

Chief Change Officer

#334 Dominic Carter: Future-Proofing Life After 50

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At the end of the day, it's about understanding the user, what they want, what they don't, and why. Aligning both sides is what creates real impact.

Chief Change Officer

#334 Dominic Carter: Future-Proofing Life After 50

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Change is happening whether we like it or not. We age every second. It's not about if we change, but about how we change. And that's exactly what you're working on. Helping shape that change in a way that's human and meaningful. There's so much to consider. Mental health, financial security, and yes, scams.

Chief Change Officer

#334 Dominic Carter: Future-Proofing Life After 50

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That's a serious issue in Japan, especially since it's one of the richest countries in the world with much of the wealth in the hands of the older generation. Lots to talk about and even more to do. Dominic, thank you so much for your time today.

Chief Change Officer

#334 Dominic Carter: Future-Proofing Life After 50

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And that's where we leave it. From career changes to tackling Japan's aging crisis, Dominic's story is a lesson in adaptation, both in business and in life. The reality is, aging isn't something happening to other people. It's happening to all of us. The real question is, How are we going to prepare for it? Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#334 Dominic Carter: Future-Proofing Life After 50

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#334 Dominic Carter: Future-Proofing Life After 50

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Right. So.

Chief Change Officer

#334 Dominic Carter: Future-Proofing Life After 50

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Technology, no doubt, it plays a huge role. And I'll let you talk more about that in a moment. But as I was listening to your personal story, I couldn't help but relate. I'm also over 50. My parents are in the mid-70s, early 80s. And of course, many of my friends have parents around the same age. And yes, generational shifts are something we all see coming.

Chief Change Officer

#334 Dominic Carter: Future-Proofing Life After 50

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What affects my parents now will eventually affect me. And not just now, but in the years ahead. But don't you think part of the challenge isn't just technology? It's not about having the right tools or even how good they are. A huge part of the problem is mindset and habit. Our parents' generation often isn't mentally prepared to adopt technology deeply.

Chief Change Officer

#334 Dominic Carter: Future-Proofing Life After 50

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even when it could make their lives easier, healthier, or better. So when we talk about technology adoption, isn't the biggest barrier sometimes not the tech itself, but the willingness to accept and use it?

Chief Change Officer

#334 Dominic Carter: Future-Proofing Life After 50

He jumped headfirst into a new culture, built a career, burned out, left, and then came right back, this time on his own terms. In Part 1, we dig into his early days, how a fascination with Japan turned into a full-blown career, why opening a Tokyo office at 24 almost broke him, and what made him bet on himself as an entrepreneur. In Part 2, things get personal.

Chief Change Officer

#334 Dominic Carter: Future-Proofing Life After 50

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Sure. So far, I haven't asked about your specific role in this tech space. Are you more of an investor? Are you actually building the technology? Or are you more on the marketing and community building side? What exactly is your role right now? And looking ahead, do you see yourself shifting, doing more of certain things, less of others?

Chief Change Officer

#334 Dominic Carter: Future-Proofing Life After 50

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Because beyond just creating new products, there's also the challenge of shaping mindsets, helping people become more open and receptive to this future of aging. How do you see your role in making that happen?

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#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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One thing I want to add to that, when you talk about why there are 600 people reporting to you and why organizations have six layers of hierarchy, at the end of the day, all comes down to politics and power, and of course, money. More layers mean more justification for higher salaries at the top. That's just how economic incentives, power, and corporate structures work.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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But that's a whole other discussion, one that goes beyond technology, yet still shapes the way employment functions today. Even as the world changes, traditional employment structures are still deeply entrenched, especially for my generation. And even for yours, despite being younger, business schools and corporate environments still reinforce many of these same structures.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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Now, employment isn't disappearing, but its function, nature, and diversity are evolving. The depth and breadth of work are shifting, and that's where technology plays a huge role. So as a closing thought, Josh, you've been a strong advocate for integrating and merging technologies into the workplace. What do you see as the consequences for employers who don't adapt?

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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For those who aren't paying attention, who aren't taking steps to evolve how they manage, recruit and lead, what risks do they face? I'd love to hear your take as the final message to the world on this show.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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and certain chapters really caught my attention, especially the ones on talent, skills, credentials, and degrees. You and I, you are from Harvard, I'm from Yale, are both beneficiaries of brand name degrees. In the traditional playbook, that gave us a clear advantage in securing opportunities. but with emerging technologies, are degrees becoming less and less relevant and useful?

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into the future of work with George Dream. George is a Harvard MBA, a startup founder, and the co-author of the book called Employment is Dead.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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One thing I want to add, I am Gen X. That's the generation between baby boomers and millennials. Older than Gen Z, but still young and energetic. We are the first who transitioned from an analog world to a digital world. I remember learning how to use a calculator, then moving on to Lotus before Microsoft Excel even existed.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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When I was at Yale for business school, Google was just becoming a thing. I'm 51 now, turning 52 in a week. So I've experienced firsthand how technology has evolved, and so have many in my generation. And that brings me to your point about organizations, not just surviving, but thriving. We are in a time where the workforce is more intergenerational than ever.

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Different age groups, different levels of exposure to technology. Some grew up with it. Others had to adapt along the way. The question is, how do we make the most of this? How do we create a more inclusive environment that maximizes talent, skills, and purpose? Because in the end, that's what drives business results. That's what fuels performance.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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And for organizations that don't embrace this shift, If they stay rigid, resistant, or unwilling to evolve, they are setting themselves up for negative consequences. So that's my advice. Stay open, stay flexible, and recognize that the workforce is changing because those who don't will be left behind.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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Thank you. There's a web on this series. We've torn down outdated employment models, explored the rise of Web3 and AI, and tackled how businesses must evolve to keep up. The question now is, will companies adapt or get left behind? The future of work isn't coming. It's already here. If you're ready to stay ahead, now is the time to act. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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In your book, you talk about how employers still claim to degree requirements. It's a tough mindset to break. As someone who has benefited from a prestigious degree, just like I have, what's your take? Do degrees still matter? Or is it time for a new way of thinking, working, and doing?

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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Yeah, I definitely agree with you. At one point in my career, I helped a lot of students from China apply to business schools in the U.S., Most of them came from ordinary backgrounds, no special connections or privileges. And honestly, I was in the same boat. I went to Yale on a scholarship. Now, when people ask me, is an MBA still relevant? I get it.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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There's a lot of debate, just like with degrees in general. It's about connections, networks, and the brand name of these two-year MBA or law school programs. And yes, these programs accelerate learning, especially the soft skills or life skills like communication, critical thinking, and relationship building.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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But beyond that, the real value is in the people you meet and the deep connections you build over those two years. That's something you can't just replicate by networking on LinkedIn or signing up for an online course. It's a different kind of experience. That said, if your goal is purely to learn, some skills. There are so many ways to do that now, many of them more affordable and accessible.

Chief Change Officer

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I've personally taken online certificates and courses to upskill, building on a traditional education background. Now, going back to your book and the discussion on degree requirements. Employers, some of them, are starting to look beyond just degrees. They are using other signals to assess skills and knowledge before making hiring decisions.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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But the degree requirement itself is still deeply ingrained, not just in the US, but in many countries. So how do we change that? How do we take real action to jailbreak the degree system? What needs to happen to shift the mindset?

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

Yes, you hear it right. That is a very bold statement. But he's got a story to back it up. Across this three-part series, We'll explore why traditional employment models are failing, how emerging technologies like Web3 and AI are reshaping work, and what companies must do to survive.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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So far, I've asked you a lot about credentials and education. That's one of my key interests. But in your book, you also introduce this massive Work 3 transformation map. A full framework for how organizations can innovate and leverage emerging technologies. Now, we won't go into all the details today. Maybe we'll save that for future episodes. But I want to ask you this. Let's say I am a CEO.

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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You and Deborah present me with this phone. You come in as consultants advising my organization on transformation. Where would you recommend starting? Obviously, executing the full roadmap, strategy, concepts, implementation could take more than a year or even longer. But what's the first step, the first major pain point to tackle?

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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I know it depends on the company, but if you had to pick a key entry point from your roadmap, what would be a strong starting place for any organization looking to make a meaningful shift?

Chief Change Officer

#168 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

We'll also go behind the scenes of George's book, how a cold call turned into a major publishing deal, and why the old ways of managing people just don't cut it anymore. Whether you are an employee, an employer, or just curious about where work is headed, this series will challenge the way you think. I spent over an hour diving into your book.

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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I like to think of it as a tennis match when two leaders of equal caliber face off, akin to players matched in skill. But I'll be the first to admit real-life leadership dynamics are far more complex and full of ambiguities than a straightforward tennis match. Perhaps based on my own time in the thick of these leadership dynamics, let me share a few insights.

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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First off, think of tennis as the ultimate showdown where players fight for their glory, fame, rankings, and of course, the prize money. It's the essence of competition. A zero-sum game where one's win is another's loss. But when we talk about shared leadership, the dynamics shift. It's not about winning or losing against each other. It's about playing a positive sum game.

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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Here, the strategy is coopetition, blending collaboration with competition. not just claim a larger slice of the pie, but to make the pie bigger for everyone involved, both for the individuals and the business. Now, let's talk umpires. In tennis, the umpire's decision is immediate and final, helped by technology with clear rules and transparent procedures.

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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Everything happens live with instant feedback on questionable actions. And then the game moves on. Business, however, doesn't have the luxury of an on-the-spot empire. Even with governance structures, shareholding frameworks and policies in place, those in oversight capacities, such as directors and investors, cannot always see, witness and judge events as they unfold.

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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This delay introduces different risks, such as gaps in time, reality, expectations and information. making the business landscape much more complex than any sports arena. Let's talk about the whole people dynamics and structure thing. A concept foreign to the tennis court where the only crowd management needed is ensuring the audience stays quiet.

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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However, in the world of business, voices and noises are ever-present. Mary's got this cool idea about making everyone a mini-CEO, which sounds super empowering, but then that's the possibility of everyone doing their own thing, creating little islands or silos within the company.

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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With the adoption of remote work, these people dynamics and political undercurrents present challenges that are harder to identify and address because of lack of physical presence and direct observation. As a business scales, these dynamics multiply. Here's a thought. What if...

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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We bring in some specific roles to help balance things out, like executive coaches as independent advisors for co-CEOs to keep them grounded, or a chief of staff to connect the dots between different parts of the company. and executive chairman acting as a more engaged umpire, ready to make proactive decisions and address issues more frequently.

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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Each role has its ups and downs, but when strategically positioned and holistically aligned, they could create a kind of self-reinforcing harmony in a power structure so that the co-CEOs can navigate the complexity of people dynamics more effectively. Just like Mary mentioned, she likes putting together her own playbook to fit her career and the business.

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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I've still got a bundle of questions and plenty to say about the whole leadership dance. But I'm all ears for what Mary's got cooking in her next chapter. And who knows, maybe next round, we'll get Mary and Carson to hop on the podcast with us. All right, gearing up for the homestretch here, let's dive into our interview's final question.

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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The very last question that I ask every single guest coming to my podcast is about their book recommendation.

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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You're like me, not just about interest in nonfiction, but about how to see the world, money, finance, which we study a lot anyway, but things that would not only enrich us as a human being, but something that would help us to stay resilient, given all the craziness going on in the world. It's the compass that we all want to hold on to. Thank you so much, Mary. We have so much to talk about.

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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Not enough. We will continue. Thank you so much, Mary.

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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So how does the AI technology impact your space, especially in the context of human and machine interaction?

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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Last time, we heard a very inspiring and interesting story about Mary, transforming from a classical musician with PhD to entry-level frontline salesperson, and now the co-CEO of a rising revenue enablement company. In this episode, Mary is going to break down how AI technology is not just a buzzword, but a game changer for sales teams and their revenue goals.

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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Like I said, there are lots and lots of use cases. We don't have time to cover them all. Let's take a step up, look at the impact of AI in a broader sense. I'm really interested in your perspective on balancing efficiency with effectiveness. So how do you envision AI transforming this balance? And regarding the old 80-20 rule, how do you see AI modernizing these concepts perhaps?

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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And if you were to come up with a metaphor that captures AI's role in the sales space, what would that be?

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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Now, Mario, with the necessary capital secured, a talented team in place, and the promise of advanced technology, there is another critical element in the success equation of any business, which is leadership. You are navigating this journey with Carson as co-CEO, a setup that's somewhat unconventional in tech and large enterprises. though not unheard of.

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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Could you share what went through your mind when you decided to begin this co-leadership path? And more importantly, how has the experience been for you so far?

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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Plus, we are tackling a topic that is a bit out of the ordinary, the co-CEO governance model. Ever wonder how having two captains during the ship compares to the solo CEO journey? How do they make it work? And what's the secret to balancing the benefits and the risks of sharing the leadership? Let's find out.

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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Sharing leadership is nothing new. It reminds me of my days in the financial markets, where co-head arrangements in investment banks and financial houses were standard. I had a chance to work directly under two co-CEOs leading a global business. The setup worked well. They shared responsibility and authority. They complemented each other with their skill sets, styles, and approaches.

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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What tied everything together was their mutual trust and having an empire, a boss above them to make the final calls. But when external market forces have changed, internal office environment has shifted and their personal circumstances have diverted. partnership did not sustain. That's no different from my own journey as a co-founder in new ventures.

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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Initially, we shared trust and viewpoints and respected each other's independence, leaning on interdependence when necessary. But as circumstances began to emerge, When one party's behavior becomes unfriendly or, I should say, counter-relationship, it often triggers a similar response from the other side. The whole dynamics of a relationship or partnership changed.

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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Here, the psychology concept, reciprocity, plays a crucial role in the dynamics and the final outcome. How do you guys resolve conflicts as and when it happens?

Chief Change Officer

#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two

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I'm a fan of tennis, so I'm thinking of if you've got two star players, like co-CEOs, who's your partner? At some point, something happened. At the same time, it's kind of like a marriage. And you know, any loving couples, they may at some point go to a consultant or something. Who's the empire?

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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I really like the circle metaphor. I think that captures the main idea of your book as well. So this is really my last question for our interview. Your book is called Unstuck, A Smart Guide to a Purposeful Career. What are some of the unsmart things people tend to do when they feel stuck

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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Let's dig into the boat now. You structure it into three X. Act 1 Alignment Act 2 Career Redesign Act 3 Transformation First, why did you choose these three as the core structure? Why start with Alignment? Why follow that with Career Redesign and then end with Transformation? And second, for each of these acts, what are the key takeaways or core messages you would want readers to walk away with?

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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One last thing I want to say about community and support. Whether it's a coach, a group of like-minded people, or even just one person who gets it, it matters so much. Actually, you probably don't know this. None of my guests do. Each of you is part of my support system. Every time I talk to a guest from somewhere in the world, it reminds me that I'm doing the right thing with the podcast.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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There are moments, many moments, when I doubt myself. Of course, we all do. But these conversations with real people who care about change, they ground me. They remind me this is real. This work matters. So yes, support systems are vital. That might mean hiring a coach, just like hiring a trainer when you go to the gym.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. What happens when your shiny successful career starts to feel like a trap? Helen Henderson has the answer. She went from board level PR executive to career coach.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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Or leaning on your family or siblings or friends, assuming they're all trustworthy and available. Or simply having conversations with people who share your vision and feelings. That's how we stay afloat. That's how we keep going when things get messy or uncertain. And like you said, failure isn't part of the manual. Because if we keep moving, learning, adapting, we don't fail. We figure it out.

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#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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That to me is the key.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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No, I'm serious. Every single one of you, I mean it. Each week, I get emails from different people saying, hey, I love to be on your show. Hey, I love to be on your show. And I talk to every one of them. For me, even if it turns out they are not the right fit for the podcast, I still make a new connection. And most of the time, they've already checked out my work before reaching out.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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So we are already aligned on some level, and that's how we keep the engine moving. Failure? Not an option. Stopping, also not an option.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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Before we conclude, is there anything I haven't asked that you would like to share? something on your mind or something you feel is important for our audience to listen?

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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And that ends our two-part series with Helen Henderson. From breaking down limiting beliefs to mapping out purposeful action, Helen's approach flips the usual career advice on its head. Redesigning your work life isn't about powering through. It's about pausing, rethinking, and making moves that actually match who you are now.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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Hopefully, you're walking away with fresh clarity and maybe even your own hope map. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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Yes, for this podcast, I always say it's about walk the walk, talk the talk leadership. I like to talk to guests who have gone through real change themselves, not just sharing advice, but lived experience. That's the kind of value I want to bring here. Now, when I skimmed through your book, one word really stood out, which is hope map. What is it? Can you walk us through the idea?

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

after realizing that the ladder she was climbing was leaning on the wrong wall. In this two-part series, Helen shares how she hit pause, got unstuck, and built a career that actually fits. We'll talk about career detour, tough choices, and why midlife isn't a crisis. is a chance to redesign. If your job looks great on paper, but feels like sandpaper, this one is for you. Let's get into it.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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Yeah, as you were explaining, it reminded me of something a career coach asked me years ago. He said, Vince, what would you do if you couldn't fail? I remember being younger and and not really knowing how to answer that question. But it stuck with me. Change is always hard. It comes with risk, uncertainty, setbacks. And like you said, once you've made the decision, don't stop. Think ahead.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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Map out the possible risks. Anticipate the bumps. I study finance, so I tend to look at everything through that lens. In finance, we calculate risks, reprice them, we build models to manage them. But in life, most risks cannot be measured on a spreadsheet. So yeah, sometimes you have to take a step forward even when you are unsure. And if one path doesn't work out, it's not the end.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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You still got options. Hitting a wall doesn't mean full stop. That's one of the biggest takeaways I've gotten from our conversation today.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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I really like the swimming pool analogy because I enjoy swimming myself. I get it. Sometimes you just need to pause, catch your breath. You're tired and you need a break. But after the rest, you get your energy back. You keep moving. You keep breathing. Even when your head underwater, there's a rhythm to it.

Chief Change Officer

#278 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part Two

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We've overran a bit, but I have one or two more quick questions because they tie right into this idea of transformation. You mentioned earlier something that stuck with me, which is don't get stuck in the past or the present. Could you say more about what you mean by that?

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was the reason you wrote the book because it's one of the most effective and cost-effective ways to reach a wider audience? Did you see it as a way to scale your message and help more people beyond one-on-one coaching?

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#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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Helen, good morning. Welcome to our show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

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Let's start with your story. You've gone through quite a transformation yourself, from public relations to branding and now coaching with a focus on career. We'll dive into the why, the how, and everything in between.

Chief Change Officer

#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. What happens when your shiny successful career starts to feel like a trap? Helen Henderson has the answer. She went from board level PR executive to career coach.

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#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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before we dive deeper into the book itself. You mentioned earlier that you had already created courses, and that eventually led you to turn those ideas into a book. It sounded like a natural progression. But speaking from experience, I published two books myself about 10 years ago. Even with a publisher and all the content in hand, it was still a huge undertaking.

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#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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Honestly, one of the most challenging things I've done, not just in terms of writing, but everything else around it. How would you describe your experience writing this book? Did it flow smoothly? Or were there unexpected challenges that first-time authors should be aware of?

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Let's dig into the boat now. You structure it into three acts. Act one, alignment. Act two, career redesign. And act three, transformation. First, why did you choose these three as the core structure? Why start with alignment? Why follow that with career redesign? And then end with transformation.

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#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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And second, for each of these X, what are the key takeaways or core messages you would want readers to walk away with?

Chief Change Officer

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That's it for part one. Helen's journey from global boardroom to career coach showed us that success without alignment just doesn't stick. But how do you actually get unstuck? In part two, Helen walked us through her framework for career change. From the three X of redesign to the power of a hope map, It's practical, honest, and full of aha moments. Don't miss it.

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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You mentioned spending 20 years in public relations. I'm curious, why did you choose that path back then, right off college? It was seen as a glamorous, traditional career. What was going on in your life at the time that led you to it?

Chief Change Officer

#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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I was thinking about your journey in connection with your book. The subtitle talks about building a purposeful career. And it got me wondering, Back in your PR days, were you already consciously searching for that sense of purpose? Or is it more something that came into focus later as you gained more experience and perspective over time?

Chief Change Officer

#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

after realizing that the ladder she was climbing was leaning on the wrong wall. In this two-part series, Helen shares how she hit pause, got unstuck, and built a career that actually fits. We'll talk about career detour, tough choices, and why midlife isn't a crisis. is a chance to redesign. If your job looks great on paper, but feels like sandpaper, this one is for you. Let's get into it.

Chief Change Officer

#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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You used the phrase seduced by the success markers. And I think that is so relatable because sometimes people might actually feel stuck in their own version of success. And even though it looks good on the outside, that stuckness doesn't feel good on the inside. Before we dive into your approach and how you help others, I want to go back to your own story.

Chief Change Officer

#277 Helen Hanison: Outgrowing the Career Everyone Else Envies — Part One

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After spending 20 years in public relations, what triggered your move? What was going through your mind at the time that led you to make that transition?

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We might have a good degree of self-awareness, but that doesn't always mean we see everything with total clarity. Looking back on your journey, after all the moves, the risks, the uncertainty, what were some of the biggest challenges you faced along the way? And despite all that, what made it all worth it for you?

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#276 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part Two

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I see you as the chief change officer behind all the change leaders you work with, guiding them to maximize the success of their initiatives. But as the founder and CEO of your own firm, you're also managing change within your own organization, including hiring, scaling, and evolving as you grow. So how do you approach change management within your own firm?

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Do you bring in independent consultants to guide the process? Or do you rely on your own expertise to lead and execute these changes? What does change look like from your side of the table?

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I call this walk the walk and talk the talk leadership. I would like to bring you back and talk more about change. But next time it will be on video. We're launching the YouTube channel very soon. So after the holidays, please come back, Nelly. Thank you very much for your time today.

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#276 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm joined by Nellie Wotoff, someone I'd like to call the Chief Change Officer behind Change Leaders.

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When it comes to change, a lot of it goes beyond technology. It's ultimately rooted in human behavior and cultural nuances. you've had the unique experience of living and working across Europe, Asia, and now the US, which brings with it an incredible range of perspectives.

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Given your background and your exposure to diverse clients, I'm curious, how do you see cultural differences play out when it comes to people's reactions to change, Even the concept of change itself, whether it is a mindset shift or a full-scale transformation, can vary dramatically across regions.

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Have you noticed any significant differences or similarities in how these cultures approach and perceive change? And how do you adapt your solutions to help clients tackle those cultural nuances more effectively?

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Yeah.

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#276 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part Two

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When we first met, You told me some intriguing insights from your experiences, specifically why certain change initiatives fail while others succeed. You pointed out that there are common pitfalls that lead to failure and that understanding can uncover valuable opportunities to set the stage for success. Could you share with us some of those common reasons for failure?

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#276 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part Two

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Originally from Europe, she spent years in Asia, especially in Singapore, working across cultures. Now based in U.S., Nellie is the founder and CEO of Tiger Hall, a tech-driven platform helping organizations navigate change more effectively. This is part one of a two-part series. In these episodes, we'll dive into navigating cultural differences across three regions,

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Maybe you've seen recurring patterns, or perhaps you can recall specific examples without naming names of how these failures played out. And on the flip side, what approaches have you found to be especially effective in laying the groundwork for a successful change initiative?

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Yeah, like you said, human nature is universal. Fear, ego, emotions, and office politics exist everywhere, regardless of culture, gender, or age. My friend's story about working in a big bank in Asia captures a common sentiment that is frustration about change management tools or processes that feel imposed rather than embraced.

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why most change initiatives fail, and how to set up for success. If you've ever struggled with change, whether in your career, company, or life, this series is for you. Let's get started. What triggered you to start this company in the very first place?

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She mentioned how the software forced employees to fit into its framework rather than adapting to their needs. And the feedback process, she described it as a formality where no one feels safe or motivated to speak the truth, just filling in responses for the sake of it. That sense of disengagement is palpable.

Chief Change Officer

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I'm curious, from your perspective, have you encountered similar resistance in your work? How do you ensure that tools or processes don't just check the box for change but actually engage and empower the people they are meant to serve?

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#134 Food52 CEO Erika Ayers Badan: No One Cares About Your Career - Part Two

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These days, when we talk about work culture, whether on social media or in actual conversations about the job market, one term that keeps coming up is toxic culture. Personally, I think office politics is one source of toxicity, yet it's almost inevitable when you have people working together. But beyond that, there are plenty of other factors that can contribute to a negative work environment.

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We also unpack some key nuggets of wisdom. including five simple things anyone can do to succeed at work. In this episode, Erica will open up about her life and career experiences, her upbringing, her parents, her leadership approach, and even her thoughts on toxic work cultures. And here's something you won't hear in other interviews.

Chief Change Officer

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From your experience, What's your take on toxic culture? What experiences have you had in dealing with negativities in the office environment?

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With four or five generations currently in the workforce, each having different experiences and perspectives, I imagine even the same situation can be seen through very different lenses. I know you have two teenagers in your family. and if they come to you for advice about their careers, not now, but maybe in a few years, they're considering what to study in college.

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What kind of advice would you give them? Not as a successful CEO or social media figure, but as a parent, how would you guide them about their future, considering what you see happening in today's workplace?

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What career advice would Erica give her own two middle school children? Given the fact that we are in such rapidly changing workplace. Let's dive right in.

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Yes, for sure. Kids these days have access to so much so easily. I didn't even get on a plane until I was 11, 12. And now you see kids flying business class at such a young age, traveling the world with their parents, getting sent to boarding schools, things we couldn't imagine back then. But anyway, that's probably a topic for another episode on parenting.

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So for my last question, looking ahead, what's your next challenge? Maybe it's not just the next one, Perhaps you already have a few things in mind, or maybe it's about a single life mission that you've been pursuing all along with each project being another step towards that goal. Can you share with us your business goals, life goals, or any future projects you're planning to embark on?

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I found that in my life and in the lives of many successful people I know, their career decisions, how they present themselves, and what they care about often link back to their past, whether it's their family upbringing, early experiences, or even history of their parents or grandparents. These impact who they are today. Could you share a bit more about your younger years?

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Maybe another book on parenting, for example.

Chief Change Officer

#134 Food52 CEO Erika Ayers Badan: No One Cares About Your Career - Part Two

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Thank you, Erica. I really enjoyed our conversation. You are a busy executive. And as I said at the beginning of our part one together, that's the last episode, I feel like I hit the jackpot, locking you down for an hour for this interview. Your nuggets of wisdom, including those 90-second pieces of advice on your YouTube channel are truly valuable. I love your energy. I think it's great.

Chief Change Officer

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

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Maybe something from your family life or childhood that nurtured your business instincts despite not going to business school? Was this something from your past that helped shape the person you are today? motivated, ambitious, successful, yet always true to yourself?

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It sounds like you grew up to be pretty independent, solving problems on your own. Recently, I saw a post on social media talking about Generation X. They call it the figure-it-out generation. They said we had to learn how to solve things on our own because our parents were too busy to hover over us. I'm Gen X too, and I can definitely relate to that. The story reminds me of that experience.

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#134 Food52 CEO Erika Ayers Badan: No One Cares About Your Career - Part Two

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I also grew up in a disciplined environment. And my parents actually blocked me from watching TV. Not just MTV, but all TV. The funny thing is, I am a visual learner. So I realized later that I learn best when I'm stimulated by visual images. Yeah, same. Okay. Now you've become CEO of two companies. Let's talk about your adulthood, in particular about building career.

Chief Change Officer

#134 Food52 CEO Erika Ayers Badan: No One Cares About Your Career - Part Two

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From your perspective, are titles at work really that important?

Chief Change Officer

#134 Food52 CEO Erika Ayers Badan: No One Cares About Your Career - Part Two

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Before her time at Food52, Erica was the first-ever CEO of Barstool Sports, and her career spans across media, marketing, and tech, with roles at companies like Fidelity Investments, Microsoft, AOL, and Yahoo. She is also the author of a new book called No One Cares About Your Career. In the last episode, we dive into the book, why she wrote it, why now, and why this title.

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Yeah, I must admit, I used to be quite conscious about titles. especially in the financial services industry where titles often align with salary. If you don't have a MD title, for example, the salary range can be significantly lower. So in the first few years of my post-MBA career, titles become a way to measure growth and progression. They were not an obsession, but they definitely mattered.

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For a lot of people, titles are still tied to career advancement. On the flip side, in the tech and startup world, titles like CEO have become much more democratized. But like you said, it's not really about the title. It's about the impact you make. With great titles comes great responsibility. That leads me to my next question. As a leader, Beyond titles, how do you define success?

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And how do you define failure? In your book, you mentioned that failure is actually a good thing. I'd love to hear your perspective on failure versus success.

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So would you say the kind of culture you're building leans more towards a growth mindset? You've mentioned that you prefer employees to take risks, try things out. And even if it doesn't work out, you value the effort and the approach. Is that how you foster a culture of continuous improvement where the process gets refined over time and eventually leads to better results?

Chief Change Officer

#134 Food52 CEO Erika Ayers Badan: No One Cares About Your Career - Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In the last episode, we started our two-part series featuring Erica Ayers-Bodden, the current CEO of Food52, a leading innovator in the food, cooking, and home space.

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#134 Food52 CEO Erika Ayers Badan: No One Cares About Your Career - Part Two

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A related question would be, how would you define your leadership style and approach?

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#344 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part One

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You've left the movie industry, but I want to ask you about something big that has shaken it. A.I. Over the past two years or so, it's become a huge disruptor. We've seen strikes, partnerships between AI and media companies, and a growing reliance on machine-generated content. You've worked in the real creative trenches with people, not problems.

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So I'm curious, how do you feel about AI entering the world of storytelling? What does it mean for the human side of creativity?

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#344 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Sienna Jackson, a two-time founder, systems thinker, and someone who's been rewriting the rules since she was a teenager.

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Let's get into it. Sienna, good afternoon to you in LA. Thank you so much for joining me on Chief Change Officer.

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#344 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part One

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We talk a lot about convenience, smartphones, smart apps, smart everything. But I wonder, how high is the cost we've paid for that convenience? Long before generative AI, we were already handing over bits and pieces of our thinking to machines. WhatsApp makes global texting easy. In exchange, we've lost other things like attention span, quality time, memory capacity, even basic writing skills.

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#344 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part One

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I grew up in the analog world. I transitioned into digital, but I still carry that early training with me. I still check my spelling. not spell check in the software, but in my own brain before I hit a button. I still do mental math. I want to keep certain muscles sharp because once they are gone, they are hard to get back.

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And when it comes to AI, especially in creative industries, I worry the cost of convenience is growing. And we haven't really calculated the laws clearly.

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#344 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part One

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You were introduced to me by our common friend, Chris Hare. In fact, Chris has so far connected me with more than five amazing people for this show. All of them have come on board the power of real human networking. Sienna, let's set the stage for today's conversation. You are in the US, you are based in LA, but tell us, what are you doing now? And just as importantly, what were you doing before?

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Sienna took us from newsroom to red carpet, Hollywood power games, generative AI's creative limits, and a deeper purpose she's been chasing all along. In part two, we shift gears from content to course. She will take us inside the impact space

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how to measure real change, why siloed thinking is a barrier, and how she's building alliances that connect culture, capital, and community across continents. Real talk, sharp thinking, and a deeply human-centered mission. Don't miss it. Until next time, take care.

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#344 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part One

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Walk us through how that transition happened, and then we'll dive into the details, your insights, your high side, and everything in between.

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#344 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part One

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You are in the SaaS B2B space. What kind of software are you building? Who is it for and what problem is it solving?

Chief Change Officer

#344 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part One

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You've spent over a decade in the TV and film industry, including time at the iconic Weinstein Company, which, as we know, produced many major movies. Just a few weeks ago, I rewatched Kill Bill, one of my all-time favorites. But of course, there are many others. How did you first get into TV and film? Was it a childhood dream? A deep passion for entertainment?

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Or did something else pull you into that world?

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#344 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part One

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By the way, I also really enjoy The King's Speech. Colin Firth was fantastic and the whole production was beautifully done. So you started off as an intern and eventually joined full-time. Your role was more behind the scenes, exactly what you were doing there.

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#344 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part One

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We were introduced through a former guest, Chris Hare. And right away, I knew we spoke the same language. Real talk, human-centric ideas, and sharp thinking with no fluff. Sienna started college at 14, interned at the Weinstein Company by 17, and later led music and content at Spine Glass Media.

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And like you said, it was a lean, high efficiency team doing a huge volume of work. So you had the chance to touch almost every area. How did you feel about the experience? I know you once thought of yourself as a bit of a rebel, not planning to enter this industry at all. But then you got the job offer and eventually became a driving force behind the scenes.

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#344 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part One

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Was it just go, go, go every day, no time to pause, just riding the momentum? Or even when things looked great from the outside, great income, exciting projects, fantastic encounters with these stars, did part of you already start sensing, this isn't the full story of who I am? Were you quietly searching for something more?

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#344 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part One

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I can see that you are like me. Even when you have a full-time job, you're not just checking boxes. You are constantly thinking, what else can be done? What's a better way to do this? No one's asking you to take on more, but you do it anyway. Because there's that inner fire, that curiosity. is that instinct to expand beyond what's expected.

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From the outside, the entertainment industry looks glamorous, just like when I worked in finance and investment. I interned at Goldman Sachs New York headquarters. I was an investor in LA for a firm called TCW Asset Management, a multi-billion dollars institutional fund manager. On paper, that was someone else's dream job.

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#344 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part One

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Los Angeles, global deals, high stakes, first class air ticket, all the parties, all the prestige. But behind that shine, It was exhausting. And eventually, I had to admit, I wasn't fulfilled. So that's why I asked, even when you were deep in the world of movie making, doing exciting work and moving fast, was there a part of you that thought, this isn't it. This isn't the whole me.

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Today, she is the CEO and co-founder of Notera, a B2B software company helping large enterprises control the risk of employment litigation and automate HR compliance. And yes, AI plays a big role in that. In this two-part series, We talk about chasing excellence without burning out, navigating boardrooms as the only one in the room, and why equity has to be measured if you want it to matter.

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And at what point did that awareness push you towards a different path? something that felt more aligned with who you really are.

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#343 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part Two

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A couple of those lessons really stuck with me. And I know they will resonate with many of our listeners too. First off, when you are trying to drive change, whether personal, professional, or political, you need people around you who get it. Not just yes-men, but supporters who understand your mission, feel what you feel, who may even have the tools or resources to help move things forward.

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And then there's the other side, the people who don't agree with you, maybe because of party lines or ideology. And still you learn to talk, you learn to collaborate where you can. But over time, you realize the importance of boundaries, the difference between political allies and personal friends. You learn to protect your energy and your values.

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Lastly, you've turned your own identity into an asset, strategically building alliances, surfacing shared issues, and keeping the fight going. Now, Brian, you are in a new role outside public office, but still deep in the work. How are you using data network to tackle anti-LGBTQ plus agendas in the private sector?

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

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One thing I really appreciate about your approach is the commitment to being data-driven. Especially now, when the rhetoric is loud, the attacks are nasty, and the truth usually gets lost in the noise. You mentioned earlier that sometimes voters elect someone thinking they will represent the interests only to realize after the election that the person's actions don't align at all.

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That must have been a powerful moment, but also a complicated one. While the country was gradually becoming more open towards LGBTQ plus issues, It was still a very different climate from today. What was the first term experience like for you? Being visibly out, navigating politics, and holding space in a room where no one else shared that same lift experience?

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And not everyone's tracking that. Not everyone's paying attention. But here's the challenge I keep thinking about. In today's world, data itself can be polluted. That's the word I use, polluted. Whether it's through media manipulation, selective framing, or outright misinformation. The most powerful people in politics and business often shape the data before we even get to it.

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So I'm curious, how do you cut through all of that? What's your approach to helping people see what's really going on? How you keep the information clean and the lens clear?

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The key is using simple, clear, and verifiable data. With my finance background, I know numbers can be framed to tell very different stories. Annual reports do it all the time. That's why I questioned every statistics I see online, main and social media. But not everyone has that training. So bad or biased data spreads fast. And that's the real danger.

Chief Change Officer

#343 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part Two

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So you are creating change by breaking down the data, making it accessible, building trust through clarity. Then over time, people start to see the patterns, connect the dots, and that's when real change starts to stick.

Chief Change Officer

#343 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part Two

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As we are about to conclude our conversation, what's one change you are proudest to have been part of? Through all the rows of fights and setbacks, what's the one that still makes it all feel worth it?

Chief Change Officer

#343 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part Two

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Exactly. Real leadership isn't just about holding the microphone. It's about building the stage, amplifying the right voices, and shaping the systems so more people can step into power. Whether it's one vote, one voice, or one podcast, those early actions compound into waves of real change.

Chief Change Officer

#343 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part Two

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Brian, thank you so much for your generosity in opening up and sharing your honest reflections and real world actions with me today.

Chief Change Officer

#343 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part Two

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You are truly a chief change officer.

Chief Change Officer

#343 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part Two

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And that's where I'll leave you. Brian's story is a reminder that strategy beats outrage. Silence isn't the end. And data can change more than just polls. It can change power. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media.

Chief Change Officer

#343 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part Two

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I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#343 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part Two

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Was there a moment where, despite political and personal differences, you were able to find common ground where someone who once voted against you actually ended up standing with you on an issue that mattered? I'd love to hear about one of those moments that really stayed with you.

Chief Change Officer

#343 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part Two

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Today's guest is Brian Sims, former Pennsylvania State Representative, civil rights attorney, and LGBTQ plus advocate who sees both the inside of power and the ways it shuts people out. Brian and I met in Hong Kong about two, three years ago at one of the city's largest LGBTQ plus events, a powerful moment for visibility, inclusion, and connection.

Chief Change Officer

#343 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part Two

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Could you share some of the toughest lessons you've learned about relationships in politics, especially around managing the fine line between professional collaboration and personal connection? Any experience that taught you how to stay focused on change while protecting yourself from misplaced trust or disappointment?

Chief Change Officer

#343 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part Two

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Could you walk us through one of those moments when you fought hard for an issue, gave it everything, but it still did not pass? What exactly happened? And what did that experience teach you about perseverance, disappointment, or even shifting strategies for the future?

Chief Change Officer

#343 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part Two

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That's what real change making looks like. It's not just passion. It's passion. iteration. You care deeply, you act boldly, you fail hard, and then you refine, you adapt, you test new angles, and you keep going. Not because every battle is winnable, but because the people impacted by the outcomes are worth the effort.

Chief Change Officer

#343 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part Two

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Brian, would you say there's a moment when you truly felt that evolution in yourself from a highly driven advocate to a strategic change architect?

Chief Change Officer

#343 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part Two

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In this two-part series, Brian shares what it was really like to make history to get silenced, meet speech, but to keep showing up anyway. He has traded the mic for a new kind of advocacy, one that is built on strategy, data, and a little less ego. Let's dive right in. Back in 2012, you got elected and found yourself as the only out person in the room.

Chief Change Officer

#343 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part Two

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Would you say you feel lonely as a changemaker?

Chief Change Officer

#342 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part One

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You were raised in a household founded in both love and independence. And if I'm hearing you right... Your mother played a big part in that. She stood up for herself, lived on her own terms, and didn't let the expectation of her era dictate who she was. And that example shaped you. When your turn came, in a time of change, you stood up for yourself too, openly, honestly.

Chief Change Officer

#342 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part One

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And I imagine that same foundation is what drew you to study law, to focus on civil rights and to use your skills to support others who may not have had the same resources, protection or voice that you did. Would you say that's part of what guided your path?

Chief Change Officer

#342 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part One

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Back in 2012, you got elected and found yourself as the only out person in the room. That must have been a powerful moment, but also a complicated one. While the country was gradually becoming more open towards LGBTQ plus issues, It was still a very different climate from today. What was the first term experience like for you?

Chief Change Officer

#342 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part One

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Being visibly out navigating politics and holding space in a room where no one else shared that same lift experience?

Chief Change Officer

#342 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#342 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part One

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Well, a lot of things have happened in two years' time. Brian, how are you? How have you been?

Chief Change Officer

#342 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part One

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So, on the one hand, your identity helped you get elected. It was a source of strength, visibility, and representation. but once inside the house, it also made you a target for disagreement, even exclusion.

Chief Change Officer

#342 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part One

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Did you consciously turn that tension into a strategy, building alliances with those who didn't necessarily share your identity but shared your policy interests so you could amplify your voice and make real progress?

Chief Change Officer

#342 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part One

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That's it for today. Brian shared how he stepped into politics, not because he wanted to be a politician, but because he wanted different people in the room. But in part two, we go inside that room. What it was like to get silenced, and to learn how to fight smarter. Don't miss it. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#342 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part One

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You are a trade lawyer. You studied business, politics, and law. And at some point, you entered politics, serving as a House Representative. We'll dive deeper into each of those roles. But first, give us a quick overview of your journey, what you've done professionally.

Chief Change Officer

#342 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part One

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Then we'll trace things back to your roots, your family, your upbringing, and circle back to the different roles you played throughout the year and the rights you've been fighting for.

Chief Change Officer

#342 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part One

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Today's guest is Brian Sims, former Pennsylvania State Representative, civil rights attorney, and LGBTQ plus advocate who sees both the inside of power and the ways it shuts people out. Brian and I met in Hong Kong about two, three years ago at one of the city's largest LGBTQ plus events, a powerful moment for visibility, inclusion, and connection.

Chief Change Officer

#342 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part One

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We'll save those stories for later, especially the part about knocking them out of office. But let's go back to your roots. You mentioned growing up in a fairly disciplined environment. Both of your parents were military officers. I've always believed that who we are today, what we do and what we strive for tomorrow are all shaped by our past.

Chief Change Officer

#342 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part One

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And I think your origin story plays a big role in who you are and what drives you. What was your childhood like?

Chief Change Officer

#342 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part One

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Can we go deeper into your mother's story? We know she was a military officer and a practicing nurse. And I'd love to hear more about her from your perspective beyond the titles. Growing up, how did you see her as different from other typical American mothers around you?

Chief Change Officer

#342 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part One

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Yeah, it's really funny that you mentioned the haircut. Ever since I was a kid, I've always had short hair. Thinking back to those times, it wasn't exactly the norm. So people check me out, stare at me when I enter the ladies' washroom, for example. So anyway, that's the experience for having short hair in the era when long hair for women, for female, was still the mainstream, or it still is.

Chief Change Officer

#342 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part One

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In this two-part series, Brian shares what it was really like to make history to get silenced, meet speech, but to keep showing up anyway. He has traded the mic for a new kind of advocacy, one that is built on strategy, data, and a little less ego. Let's dive right in. Good morning to you, Brian. I haven't seen you in person for like, how long? Two, three years?

Chief Change Officer

#342 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part One

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yeah exactly there were and still are so many stereotypes the whole image of the ideal woman being someone with long blonde hair blue eyes and if not the housewife type then the polished corporate woman in a tailored suit with that cookie cutter as short And I was like, well, that's not me.

Chief Change Officer

#342 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part One

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Totally agree. Now, you mentioned that you grew up moving across different parts of the U.S. And within one country, that you get exposed to a wide range of cultures and communities, right? I can see how that shaped your lens on diversity and why the seeds of DEI were planted so early in your life. Part of DEI is also the LGBTQ plus experience. I was wondering, when did you decide to come out?

Chief Change Officer

#342 Brian Sims: From State House to Soul Work—Driving Change With Smarter Tools — Part One

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And what was that conversation like when you did?

Chief Change Officer

#61 Personal Loss, Career Growth, and Real Change: Rahshea Cardiff’s Happiness Journey - Part One

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One of those layers is happiness, which can be an emotion, but also an approach to leadership and management. Before we dive into your work with Happy Companies, I know you've experienced some major transitions yourself. Moving from a large corporation into a new venture is a big leap in itself. But on top of that, you faced some personal challenges along the way.

Chief Change Officer

#61 Personal Loss, Career Growth, and Real Change: Rahshea Cardiff’s Happiness Journey - Part One

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Could you share what that journey was like? And how did you find your grounding to move forward even stronger?

Chief Change Officer

#61 Personal Loss, Career Growth, and Real Change: Rahshea Cardiff’s Happiness Journey - Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation values. who couldn't use a bit more happiness? This episode and the next dives deep into what it means to find joy and resilience in both work and life.

Chief Change Officer

#61 Personal Loss, Career Growth, and Real Change: Rahshea Cardiff’s Happiness Journey - Part One

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In this two-part series, she shares her journey of resilience, why she joined Happy Companies, and how she's working to enhance employee experience using technology, but without losing the touch, the human touch. In today's episode, we'll focus on Rishia's personal story and career transitions.

Chief Change Officer

#61 Personal Loss, Career Growth, and Real Change: Rahshea Cardiff’s Happiness Journey - Part One

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Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Living in the present is not just a saying. It's truly a way of being. When we let go of the constant worry about what's next and really ground ourselves in what's happening now, every moment feels richer, more meaningful,

Chief Change Officer

#61 Personal Loss, Career Growth, and Real Change: Rahshea Cardiff’s Happiness Journey - Part One

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And like you said, it's not about being overly dramatic or anxious about what could happen tomorrow, but rather about appreciating what we have right here, right now. It's the small things, picking up your son, making dinner, enjoying a little downtime, that could mean so much when we approach them mindfully. That idea of the present being a gift really resonates with me too.

Chief Change Officer

#61 Personal Loss, Career Growth, and Real Change: Rahshea Cardiff’s Happiness Journey - Part One

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I love that colorful panda quote for a reason. It's simple, but so profound. When we live in the now, we allow ourselves to fully experience life, and that's what makes it all worthwhile.

Chief Change Officer

#61 Personal Loss, Career Growth, and Real Change: Rahshea Cardiff’s Happiness Journey - Part One

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Just now, Rishia shared honestly about her own personal journey and career transitions. On Tuesday, we'll explore her role at Happy Companies and her vision for transforming the workplace, balancing tech innovation with genuine care for people. Join us again on Tuesday and find yourself some happiness. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#61 Personal Loss, Career Growth, and Real Change: Rahshea Cardiff’s Happiness Journey - Part One

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#61 Personal Loss, Career Growth, and Real Change: Rahshea Cardiff’s Happiness Journey - Part One

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On Tuesday, Park Chiu will explore her role at Happy Companies and her vision for transforming the workplace, balancing tech innovation with genuine care for people. Let's dive in and find some happiness. Roshia, welcome to our show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Good evening to you.

Chief Change Officer

#61 Personal Loss, Career Growth, and Real Change: Rahshea Cardiff’s Happiness Journey - Part One

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You spend over 20 years in corporate America with some powerhouse names. Best Buy, Starbucks, and Microsoft. all in different industries. Could you walk us through a bit of that journey? How did your role and approach evolve across these big firms, especially since you've always been focused on people management and leadership?

Chief Change Officer

#61 Personal Loss, Career Growth, and Real Change: Rahshea Cardiff’s Happiness Journey - Part One

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You've worked at big names like Best Buy, Starbucks, and Microsoft, each with their own well-defined structure, policies, and, dare I say, bureaucracy. I can relate because during my 15 years in large corporations, mainly in finance, I experienced a similar environment. On the one hand, as an employee, I appreciated the structure, the resources, and the weight that comes with a big brand.

Chief Change Officer

#61 Personal Loss, Career Growth, and Real Change: Rahshea Cardiff’s Happiness Journey - Part One

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But when it came to handling people issues, especially from the employee's side of things, I often felt disconnected from HR. Many times, it felt like they were more focused on enforcing policy rather than truly helping employees. that KPIs seemed more aligned with executing company policies rather than supporting employee needs.

Chief Change Officer

#61 Personal Loss, Career Growth, and Real Change: Rahshea Cardiff’s Happiness Journey - Part One

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I'm thrilled to introduce Rishya Kardas, the VP of Partnerships at Happy Companies. Happy Companies is a venture focused on building happier, healthier workplaces. Rochelle brings over 20 years of experience in people management across major brands like Best Buy, Starbucks, and Microsoft. And she's deeply passionate about talent development and employee experience.

Chief Change Officer

#61 Personal Loss, Career Growth, and Real Change: Rahshea Cardiff’s Happiness Journey - Part One

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Given your extensive experience in people function within large companies, I'd love to hear how you managed this balance. How did you reconcile your personal passion for putting people first with the reality of representing and implementing firm policies, which sometimes don't always feel like they are in the workforce's best interest?

Chief Change Officer

#61 Personal Loss, Career Growth, and Real Change: Rahshea Cardiff’s Happiness Journey - Part One

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The people function is crucial, but it's also uniquely challenging. Unlike tech, policy or finance, You can't just apply a formula or a quick fix to people issues. There are so many layers, emotions, personalities, motivations, incentives, and politics, all of which make it complex to navigate.

Chief Change Officer

#61 Personal Loss, Career Growth, and Real Change: Rahshea Cardiff’s Happiness Journey - Part One

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As we all know, bureaucracy, corporate politics, and constant changes like layoffs and digital transformation can make it tough for employees to thrive and survive. Richier herself has navigated intense transitions. leaving a corporate role at Microsoft to pursue entrepreneurship, experiencing the loss of her mother, facing divorce, and raising her first child.

Chief Change Officer

#126 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part One

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Speaking of delivering outcome, I recall from one of your recent speeches that you mentioned people are not actually resistant to change. They resist poorly designed processes. Do you have any specific examples where resistance was due to a poorly designed process? And then once the process was improved, you started seeing more and more acceptance?

Chief Change Officer

#126 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part One

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Lastly, we'll explore the crucial transition from education to employment and how her organization is helping students achieve better life outcomes. Sit back and enjoy this unfiltered conversation packed with insights and practical advice. Bridget, welcome. It's been a long time since South by Southwest.

Chief Change Officer

#126 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part One

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Yes, the world has changed so much and so quickly in the past couple of years. We'll deep dive into many of those changes in your space, higher education. But first, I always start with the guest. The focus is on your change journey over time. So let's begin with that.

Chief Change Officer

#126 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part One

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Yeah, empathy, curiosity, and ownership are crucial for change. Like you said, no one really likes change unless it benefits them in some way. It also needs to generate collective benefits. People often ask, why does change? How can we make things better? Why does my contribution matter in this case or that case? How can I help? Maybe I can help more than you expected.

Chief Change Officer

#126 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part One

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Ownership isn't just about being informed or notified. It's about contributing to the evolution of the change and being responsible for the outcome. If the outcome isn't as good as expected, how can we work together to make it better? This sense of ownership, this power of ownership is so impactful.

Chief Change Officer

#126 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part One

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#126 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part One

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Bridget and I met at South by Southwest when we were on the same judging panel for startups in education technology. That was a time before COVID. Many changes have occurred ever since. Bridget has navigated these changes firsthand in higher education.

Chief Change Officer

#126 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part One

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So you're now leading a university innovation alliance focused on improving graduation outcomes for students from low-income families. This mission ties back to your own background. You've worked within the system for a long time. You've seen the problems, experienced the frustrations, and reached a point where you decided this is it. You shifted the perspective from competition to collaboration.

Chief Change Officer

#126 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part One

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How did you go about convincing these 11 schools, their presidents and administrations to work together? How did the lobbying process unfold? It must have been like an entrepreneur hitching for investment. How did you make it happen?

Chief Change Officer

#126 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part One

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She's now leading a university innovation alliance focused on improving graduation outcomes for students from low-income families, a mission tied closely to her own background. In this episode, we'll explore how she convinced 11 schools to work together shifting the paradigm from competition to collaboration.

Chief Change Officer

#126 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I welcome Dr. Bridget Burns from the University Innovation Alliance.

Chief Change Officer

#126 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part One

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We'll discuss the resistance to change because of poorly designed processes and how improving these processes led to much greater acceptance. We'll talk about the importance of empathy, curiosity, and ownership in driving change. We'll also cover how AI is reshaping education and the challenges institutions face in integrating this technology.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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And one of the tools to do that is money. Now that you've touched on retirement, there's another trend, the rise of financial influencers. These days, anyone can learn about finance and investments online anytime, anywhere. On one hand, these influencers help democratize financial information and make advice more accessible. But on the other hand, there are concerns.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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questions about their qualifications, the accuracy of their information, conflicts of interest, and the fact that some may lack formal financial education or ethical standards. Some may promote investments for personal gain without proper disclosure. With so much information out there, What's your take on this rising force of influencers?

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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And how would you advise listeners who are navigating through all this to make smarter decisions?

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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So if you have kids, care about your financial future, are looking after elderly family members, or are simply concerned about financial and family planning in general, join us and get inspired by Colin's journey in building wealth from scratch. This is part two of our two-part series on Colin and his golden rules of people-focused finance. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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I think the issue with financial influences is just one part of a larger problem. Ever since the internet became a part of our lives, we've had access to a flood of information. And now, with social media and various platforms, we all have to deal with misinformation and fake news. These influencers are just one group of influencers sharing information, but often it's not verifiable.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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This brings us to a major topic that has been discussed a lot lately in the media, which is developing critical thinking and independent thinking. These are skills we're supposed to learn in school and on the job. But with the rise of social media and some negative effects of technology, it seems like people are losing the art of thinking critically and independently.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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This brings me to our last and most important question. Let's go back to your roots as a family man. You are a father of three young kids, the next generation. With your knowledge of investment and diversification, you're already building a financial safety net for them, buying gold for them, securing the future. But beyond the wealth you're building,

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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there's the question of how they will make use of it as they grow up. That leads us to financial education and literacy, which I believe is lacking in today's society, especially for younger people. So as a professional investor who helps clients day in and day out, also as a father of three, How are you preparing your children for their financial future?

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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How do you nurture the ability to become critical thinkers, independent decision makers, and financial literate individuals so they can make informed decisions when the time comes?

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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So the desire for control often comes from a lack of trust and confidence in the system.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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That's actually one of the biggest lessons my mother shared with me back in high school. She never had the chance to go to college. She grew up poor and didn't get that opportunity. But she loves learning, and she makes sure I could learn as much as I wanted. She always tells me, focus on your learning because that's something no one can ever steal from you.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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When you think about it, stocks and bonds can lose value overnight. But then there's the argument that a degree doesn't hold the same importance anymore. That's a whole other conversation we could dive into in a different episode. But one thing is for sure, learning itself never goes out of style. Learning always has long-term value, no matter what. It's an investment that never depreciates.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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Yes, inflation, the common enemy we all face. But what other concerns should people be thinking about?

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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I used to work in Los Angeles for TCW Asset Management, where I managed billion-dollar funds for institutions alongside the bond king, Jeffrey Gundlach, focusing on bond and credit portfolios. Today, I'm meeting someone else from LA, but with a different angle on investment. Precious metals like gold and silver.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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You've mentioned the word retirement a few times now. Well, this podcast isn't specifically about retirement. A lot of what we discuss, like career change and navigating through this era of change and uncertainty, ties into that. Even the whole notion of retirement is evolving, with AI set to reshape many aspects of work and career development.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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the idea of what retirement looks like is shifting too. Now, for those who still have a stable job and income, would you say in preparing for whatever that version of retirement might be, Diversifying or investing in gold and precious metals could serve as a haste against income uncertainty. Have you worked with clients in this situation before? And what advice do you give them?

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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Our guest, Colin Plume, is here to talk about something often overlooked and undervalued. But don't worry, this isn't a sales pitch on buying gold or silver. Colin and I will dive into more personal topics, family, parenting, retirement, and the sense of control over personal finance, as well as financial education for future generations.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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That brings up another opportunity for a longer-term strategy, especially for people with continued income. It's definitely healthier, both physically and mentally, to stay sharp, to stay engaged, even part-time. Studies show that after a certain age, while exercise is crucial for physical health, keeping your brain active is just as important for mental and physical well-being.

Chief Change Officer

#328 Collin Plume: Ownership, Not Optics—Teaching Real Wealth to the Next Generation

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Earning extra income, even part-time, helps with that. And of course, some of that extra income could go towards investments, like you mentioned. But it's also about maintaining control. Control over your life, your mobility, and what you want to achieve before the final days. I think we all, at the end of the day, want to own our lives and have control over them.

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#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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So if you have kids, care about your financial future, are looking after elderly family members, or are simply concerned about financial and family planning in general, join us and get inspired by Colin's journey in building wealth from scratch. This is part one of our two-part series on Colin and his golden rules of people-focused finance. Let's get started. Welcome to our show, Colin.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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So let's say I come to you with a chunk of money, and I'm considering buying gold or silver. Can you walk me through the process? You've mentioned things like acquisition, so I suppose after that comes storage. because obviously, I can't just keep it in my basement. Then, is there some kind of monitoring? Like, do you send reports on prices every month or so?

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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And at some point, I'll probably be concerned about liquidity. How easy, how cost-effective It is to sell when I'm ready to cash out.

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#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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I can definitely see the appeal of control. If someone owns a gold bar and keeps it at home, they obviously have to figure out security. Not just a regular safe, but maybe something really sophisticated. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if some people still do what they did back in the day.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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Like in China, for example, keeping large amounts of cash, gold bars, and other valuables at home, even in the bedroom. It's that tangible feeling of having something you can physically hold on to. It's more tangible than even owning a house because a house, while you can see it, is tied to a bunch of paperwork, just like stocks, bonds, and funds.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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Good morning.

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#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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They are all backed by legal papers and financial systems. So I get why some people prefer to have something they can physically control right at their fingertips.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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Today, we are diving into a topic that's really important, not just in business, but also in every family, finance. And it's also right at the core of what you do. But before we get into that, let's start with you. Could you share a bit about your background, your career journey? and the story behind how you got to where you are today.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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So the desire for control often comes from a lack of trust and confidence in the system.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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Just now, Colin shared how he got into the gold business. and why investing in precious metals is timely, especially in this era of change and uncertainty. In part two, which will be released tomorrow, we'll dive deeper into the risks and opportunities in the precious metal market. Colin will also share his insights on financial influences

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#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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parenting, retirement, family wealth building, and financial education. Don't miss it. Come back and join us again tomorrow. See you. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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I used to work in Los Angeles for TCW Asset Management, where I managed billion-dollar funds for institutions alongside the bond king, Jeffrey Gundlach, focusing on bond and credit portfolios. Today, I'm meeting someone else from LA, but with a different angle on investment. Precious metals like gold and silver.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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Noble Gold, just the name, sounds like it's all about investing in gold and precious metals. I'll let you do the pitch. Why is now the right time? What is the opportunity in gold investing? But before we get into that, I want to ask you about your leadership style. while you're running an investment firm focused on financial products.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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I've heard that you're really a people-first leader, whether it's your clients, customers, or employees. Would you say that's an accurate way to describe your approach?

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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Our guest, Colin Plume, is here to talk about something often overlooked and undervalued. But don't worry, this isn't a sales pitch on buying gold or silver. Colin and I will dive into more personal topics, family, parenting, retirement, and the sense of control over personal finance, as well as financial education for future generations.

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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When we first met, I shared a bit about my own background in finance, which has been more on the traditional side By that, I mean I've worked with mainstream investment products like bonds and credit, and my focus has mostly been on big institutions. I haven't had much experience dealing directly with individual investors or in the precious metals space. So I'm curious, why precious metals?

Chief Change Officer

#327 Collin Plume: Golden Rules for People-First Wealth Building

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I think this question has two parts. First, why did you choose to set up this firm focused on precious metals instead of other investment products? And second, when you are talking to your customers, why do you recommend precious metals? Why gold? Why silver? As viable investment options for them?

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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I can see why the legal mindset resonates with you and me. It's such a perfect metaphor for building a life, a career, even a podcast that's uniquely mine. You're not just piecing together blocks. You're creating something with purpose, using elements that feel authentic to you.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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Just like how each brick contributes to a structure, every experience, every skill, every choice you make adds to your bigger picture. And just like a true master builder, you're following your own playbook, assembling a vision that's completely your own. Nina, I love how you've tied together all these elements, the successful timeline, the legal mindset, and the reverse resume.

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#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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For anyone listening, whether you're facing a career transition, feeling stuck, and simply preparing for change, These tools can really help you navigate that journey. Thank you so much, Lena. Thank you for sharing your story and your wisdom.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. These days, we talk a lot about resilience. We can discuss the psychology of it all day long. But who actually walks the walk and talks the talk when it comes to resilience?

Chief Change Officer

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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And instead of staying down, she jumped into technology, starting from scratch, and reinvented herself yet again. Yesterday, in part one of our conversation, we explored Nina's journey, her training, her tryouts, and her setbacks. Then today in part two, we'll explore the tools Nina has developed over the years to help others rise above their challenges.

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#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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Tools like the reverse resume and successful timeline. We are not talking about your typical resume or conventional ideas of success. We are going beyond that. So let's begin this incredible journey with Nina. Absolutely. And I think that's a great point. For anyone listening, the takeaway here is to think outside the box when it comes to your skills and experience.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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We often limit ourselves to what we have always done or the industry we know, but those same skills can often apply in ways we wouldn't initially expect. In my own experience, A guest on the show, an executive recruiter, once told me I would meet a great executive recruiter myself. At first, I was surprised. Recruiting wasn't something I've ever considered.

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#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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But she pointed out that my ability to support talent, connect with people, and bring the right voices onto the show demonstrated qualities that could be valuable in her industry. So, just like your own story, it's about being creative and open-minded when exploring new directions. Sometimes it takes an outside perspective to see what we are really capable of.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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So you've moved into technology, built a new version of yourself, and now you're out there as a solo entrepreneur, as an author, as a speaker. It's amazing to see how your career has evolved. As we're talking about transitions and career paths, resumes often come up. Traditionally, resume is seen as an advertisement, a highlight reel of achievements.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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But you introduced me to the concept of a reverse resume. Could you walk us through what that is and how it might help those who are considering a change or currently navigating a transition? I think it could be a powerful tool to help open up minds and see new possibilities.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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Professional athletes. Today, I'm sitting down with Nina Sossaman Pope, a former professional gymnast, who started her journey at about four years old and went on to join the U.S. gymnastic team. In her own words, gymnastics is a perfect example of resilience. You literally fall down and get back up all day every day as you learn new skills.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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Yes, this isn't just a single page. It's more like a notebook, something dynamic that we keep updating. It can serve us as a reminder, especially in those moments when we are feeling down, discouraged, or unsure. As entrepreneurs, there's always something happening, some challenge or setback. But when you can look back at your progress, it's a powerful reminder that you've overcome so much.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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It's just another bump in the road, not a showstopper. Just keep moving forward. Don't let it derail you.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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Exactly. It's like you said, a mix of all your past achievements and challenges, marking different points in time, But the other side is blank, representing the future, open for you to shape. It's all about how you want to connect those dots and create your path forward.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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Is that the successful timeline you mentioned to me before?

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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Yes, exactly. That's the successful timeline. is a way to look at your life journey as a series of pivotal moments.

Chief Change Officer

#326 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Build a Life You’re Proud Of—Not Just a Career You Survive

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That mindset became part of Nina's DNA, and it carried her through some incredible twists and turns. From the heartbreak of not making the Olympic team to leaving the sport for good after an injury, she faced one identity crisis after another. But she didn't stop there. Nina built a successful journalism career that spent 17 years only to be let go despite being a beloved news anchor.

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#150 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part Two

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Losing the built-in support systems and having to figure out how to DIY do-it-yourself everything requires a different approach. And it's not a simple shift to make. Back to you, Alison, have you experienced this yourself? Maybe at the start of your venture journey? And if so, how did you adjust to that shift from everything taken care of to everything you have to take care of?

Chief Change Officer

#150 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part Two

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Yesterday, we looked into the personal changes Alison has experienced, her motivations, the steps she took, and her LinkedIn story of connecting with the current co-founder. Today, we'll talk about this new venture, Overalls, which is making waves in the employee benefits space. They are building a network of live co-CH, including stay-at-home parents, the underemployed, and retirees.

Chief Change Officer

#150 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part Two

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So far, we've explored many personal changes you've made in your life. And now, You're building a venture that has the potential to create transformative change for others in the workforce. Let's dive into your current project. Overalls. What is the mission behind overalls? What specific problems are you tackling? And whose challenges are you aiming to resolve? You've told me before

Chief Change Officer

#150 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part Two

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about bridging the needs of employers with a valuable untapped talent pool that includes stay-at-home moms. Could you walk us through how Overalls is creating this connection and the potential impact it holds for both employers and individuals looking to reenter or redefine their roles in the workforce?

Chief Change Officer

#150 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part Two

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and linking them with employers to help reduce the day-to-day stress on employees. Will this model make employees feel more loyal, more willing to return to the office? We don't know yet, but it's definitely an idea worth building and exploring. Let's get started. A few weeks ago, I released an episode with an executive coach.

Chief Change Officer

#150 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part Two

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So let's say I'm an employer running a firm with a team. that's juggling a lot of personal obligations and responsibilities along with their work. I come to you and you say, hey, we have a network of live experts. We call them live concierge who can take care of these things for your team.

Chief Change Officer

#150 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part Two

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By paying a fee, I'm able to offload some of these personal burdens from my staff, helping them stay focused, less distracted, and feel more supported at work. And because this is a benefit we as the employer provide, hopefully it fosters a greater sense of loyalty. Is that the core of the value prepositioned or am I missing anything here?

Chief Change Officer

#150 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part Two

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To wrap up our conversation, which I've really enjoyed, I see you as what I would call a change progressive. Not just someone who embraces change, but someone who moves beyond their conventional framework and stretches beyond their comfort zone. That's the mindset I want to cultivate in my listeners too. I consider myself a change progressive as well.

Chief Change Officer

#150 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part Two

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It's about recognizing that our limits aren't really limits, but points we can push past to grow and improve. So to close, what advice would you give to people who are like you, either considering or in the middle of a transition from a stable, traditional environment to something new

Chief Change Officer

#150 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part Two

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such as adventure, a solo path, or another big change, how can they better prepare themselves to succeed in this kind of transformative journey?

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#150 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part Two

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We covered a lot, and one of the things she shared was how some of her clients set up with their jobs, decided to move on, But then in a lot of cases, they ended up just trading one toxic boss for another. So clearly, it wasn't the best move. Therefore, it highlights the importance of making career transitions thoughtfully and mindfully.

Chief Change Officer

#150 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part Two

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Absolutely. Being kind to ourselves is part of the process. Change doesn't happen overnight. And even if things don't fall into place right away, that doesn't mean they won't. I've learned the hard way too, being too tough on myself. Sometimes, the best thing we can do is just be patient and allow things to unfold. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#150 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part Two

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You've also shared an interesting backstory with me about how you ended up at Overalls and how you connected with the co-founder through LinkedIn. Now these days, many people use LinkedIn for job searching, but there's a lot of skepticism around job postings. Some of them are fake. and networking can still hit or miss. But your experience was a real LinkedIn success story.

Chief Change Officer

#150 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part Two

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Can you walk us through what happened then and how you used the platform to make a genuine connection?

Chief Change Officer

#150 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part Two

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That's really encouraging to hear, though I completely agree. A lot of messages on LinkedIn go unanswered. And honestly, I don't respond to every message myself because you can usually tell when it's just a generic mass marketing message. But yes, luck, in quotation, is often what we call it when something just clicks in an almost magical way.

Chief Change Officer

#150 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part Two

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Today, I'm sitting down with Alison Stewart, who made the big shift. from the stability of corporate life, in particular, over 10 years in finance and insurance, to the chaotic world of startups. Her new venture focuses on re-imagining employee benefits and experiences, as she made this leap right in the middle of COVID. This is actually part two of our two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

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However, I would argue it's also about doing the prep work, figuring out what you really want, what aligns with your values, your interests, what doesn't, and being thoughtful about where you put your energy, rather than just casting a wide net. I'm curious, after you landed the role, what expectations did you have? Were you confident about the move? Or did you have a mix of feeling?

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And now, after three years, Have those initial expectations been met or maybe even exceeded? Did things turn out differently than you originally anticipated?

Chief Change Officer

#150 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Are you thinking about stepping away from corporate America? Or maybe you've already left. You are still trying to figure things out. If so, this episode is just for you.

Chief Change Officer

#150 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part Two

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You bring up such a valid point, especially for those with a deep corporate background transitioning into the venture world. I remember going through a similar experience myself, changing from a world where everything is already structured and taken care of to one where suddenly you have to take care of everything.

Chief Change Officer

#150 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part Two

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In a big corporation, you focus on your specific role, whether it's creating a product, designing a strategy plan, or leading a team, and the brand, sales, and marketing machinery are already setting up, and the brand, sales, and marketing machine are already set up and running. All the support systems are in place. You don't have to worry about things like booking a travel or securing deals.

Chief Change Officer

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It's all handled by specialized teams. But when you are in a venture, even if you are the CEO of a well-funded startup, you are rolling up your sleeves and getting hands-on with almost every part of the operation. This change isn't just about the practical changes or even financial adjustments. Like a pay cut is a complete shift in mindset.

Chief Change Officer

#391 Robert MacPhee: From Parking Cars to Coaching Clarity—Lessons from a Chicken Soup Insider — Part One

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He's the author of Living a Values-Based Life and the creator of the leadership model called Excellent Decisions. In this two-part series, we'll dive into what values really mean, why they matter for leading fulfilling careers and lives, and why figuring out our values can be challenging. We'll also explore how to make our values visible and sustainable in a world that's constantly changing.

Chief Change Officer

#391 Robert MacPhee: From Parking Cars to Coaching Clarity—Lessons from a Chicken Soup Insider — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. A few years ago, I joined a growing venture as the chief people officer. It lasted just six weeks.

Chief Change Officer

#391 Robert MacPhee: From Parking Cars to Coaching Clarity—Lessons from a Chicken Soup Insider — Part One

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Dust Free? As in D-U-S-T Dust Free?

Chief Change Officer

#391 Robert MacPhee: From Parking Cars to Coaching Clarity—Lessons from a Chicken Soup Insider — Part One

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If values are so transformative and essential in shaping behavior and driving success, why do you think most people are unaware of their own values? Is it because they haven't taken the time to reflect? Or is it something deeper, like societal distractions, external pressures, or even a lack of understanding about how to identify values in the very first place?

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I'd love to hear your perspective on this.

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#391 Robert MacPhee: From Parking Cars to Coaching Clarity—Lessons from a Chicken Soup Insider — Part One

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If you feel stuck in your current workplace, it's not necessarily your fault. Often, it's just a misalignment of values. Don't bend your values to fit in. Instead, find a place in a tribe whose values resonate with yours. That's where true happiness and success lie. Let's dive in. Robert, I'm really excited to dive into the ideas behind your book, not just the content, but also the why behind it.

Chief Change Officer

#391 Robert MacPhee: From Parking Cars to Coaching Clarity—Lessons from a Chicken Soup Insider — Part One

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Absolutely. You've touched on something so critical. Figuring out our values is challenging because, as you said, within absorbing others' expectation, whether from parents, schools, peers, or society, like a sponge for years, And when we don't consciously question or explore those imposed values, we can feel stuck or out of place without even understanding why.

Chief Change Officer

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In the workplace, this disconnect often manifests as frustration, disengagement, or being labeled as not a team player. But as you pointed out, is rarely about competence or work ethics. It's about a values mismatch.

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If we take the time to understand our core values, it not only helps us find better alignment with a company or a team, but also enables us to navigate the environment more strategically we can identify where things resonate and where they don't, which teams and leaders share a similar outlook, and how to bridge gaps when values diverge.

Chief Change Officer

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This awareness gives us clarity on how to behave, communicate, and even set boundaries, thereby reducing stress and improving fulfillment. Wouldn't you agree?

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Just now, Robert shared with us what values really mean, why they matter for leading fulfilling careers and lives, and why figuring out our values can be challenging. In part two, we'll explore how to make our values more visible and sustainable in a world that is constantly changing and noisy. Come back and join us tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

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What's the story behind this calling to write a book about value? Before we get there, I'd love to hear about your journey leading up to who you are today and the work you do, which have been shaped by your past, your experiences, your highs, your lows, and your challenges? What moments or turning points in your life that brought you to this very stage?

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By your own definition, what exactly are values?

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It's such an insightful point. Feeling like we're constantly fulfilling someone else's agenda that don't align with our own goals or values. It is easy to get lost in this sea, isn't it? Values like you mentioned can feel like abstract concepts until we truly define them in our lives. Take honesty, for example, is a value that sounds universal, but how we live it might differ vastly.

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Robert, I'd love for you to share some specific values you've examined or highlighted in your work. Maybe ones that stood out or even surprised you in the importance. Walk us through a couple and ideas behind them. How do they resonate in a world where we often feel disconnected from what really matters?

Chief Change Officer

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To that CEO, I may have seemed incompetent, but I knew exactly why I had to leave so quickly. It was a major clash of values. I believe in being true and ethical in both words and deeds, while he thrived on a man-made facade of showmanship and hypocrisy. Knowing my values made the decision clear. This experience ties directly to today's guest. Robert Mercier.

Chief Change Officer

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You mentioned that one driving force behind publishing your book was seeing how powerful it is when people figure out the values, align the behaviors with them, and act on them. The results, as you've said, can be extraordinary. Could you share some examples from your coaching experiences, without naming names, of course, that highlight this transformation?

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Stories where someone identified their core values, made changes to align with them, and saw incredible results. I think those examples could inspire and show us what's possible when we live in alignment with our values.

Chief Change Officer

#390 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Erin Deal, founder and CEO of Improved, a company that uses improv to help teams grow and thrive. Like me, she's also a top podcast host.

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#390 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part Two

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I can tell you exactly why I connected with that question, because I experienced it myself. Honestly, I think 80-90% of my thoughts on any given day being negative. It's just the way our minds work sometimes, especially when uncertainty is evolved. When we think about future, we tend to naturally default to worst-case scenarios, even when, more often than not,

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#390 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part Two

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things turn out far less catastrophic than we imagined. Yet, those negative thoughts can feel overwhelming, very loud, disruptive, and hard to ignore. Personally, I have to deal with that noise every single day. I hear it, but I remind myself to focus, to move forward despite the chatter. That's why I really value your advice.

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It's practical and it's something I know I can apply right away to keep that noise in check.

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#390 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part Two

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Just a couple of weeks ago, I released two episodes with a guest who wrote a book called Generosity Wins. He's a seasoned CEO who talks about how actions and mindset of generosity not only enrich others, but also create greater success in life and career.

Chief Change Officer

#390 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part Two

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One powerful idea he shared was how a single generous action creates a ripple effect, encouraging others to replicate it, and in turn, making the world a little better. Of course, we can't measure the full impact. There's no way to track every ripple, but the concept is the same as what you were saying. When we experience joy or positivity in our lives, we have the chance to pass it on.

Chief Change Officer

#390 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part Two

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In his example, even something as simple as a smile can spark change. Smiling in a stranger, a colleague, or a friend might seem trivial, but it can create a moment of positivity that ripples outward. is a reminder that small actions often have the biggest impact.

Chief Change Officer

#390 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#390 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part Two

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Not so much the workshops you facilitate or the lessons you teach, but your personal journey. How you've dealt with, navigated, and grown from failure over time. If you like, feel free to share specific stories and give us an overview of your journey with failure. Either way works.

Chief Change Officer

#390 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part Two

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I haven't read your book yet, but failure as a concept resonates deeply. Just before this, I was interviewing another guest and we talked about transitions, not just career changes, but life changing events. In her case, two years ago, she survived a severe car accident that left her paralyzed.

Chief Change Officer

#390 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part Two

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She shared how she endured the physical and mental pain, learned to walk again, rebuilt her coaching business, and even started a podcast within just two years. Coincidentally, your experiences also highlight how resilience and failure intertwine. I call this lifting human intelligence. That is the ability to reflect deeply on who we are and transform setbacks into meaningful insights.

Chief Change Officer

#390 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part Two

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From a young age, Erin dreamed of becoming a talk show host. Why did she choose that path? And how did her journey lead her to combine improv and business? I told Erin, you are in the business of joy. But beyond joy, we also talked about failure. Erin calls herself a failfluencer. a blend of failure and influence.

Chief Change Officer

#390 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part Two

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And while these three words like fill, learn, grow may sound simple on the surface. Developing that level of clarity through real experience is far from easy. What stands out is not just the lesson itself, but the process of sustaining pain, making sense of it, and transforming it into a systematic approach others can understand and apply.

Chief Change Officer

#390 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part Two

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The pain itself is real and unfortunate, but it often opens doors to growth. As I told my other guest, failure, if managed well, can become one of the greatest opportunities for transformation. Would you agree?

Chief Change Officer

#390 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part Two

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I think that's a great way to wipe things up. I always discourage hard selling on the show. But this isn't about that. It's about sharing the lessons you've distilled from your real, sometimes painful, life experiences. Lessons that listeners can take away and apply right now. So as a closing thought, could you share a method or approach from your work that anyone can try?

Chief Change Officer

#390 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part Two

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Something practical, educational, not just inspirational, that could help listeners facing their own dilemmas, whether they're in career transition, dealing with personal challenges, or simply feeling stuck. What's one step or exercise they could use to figure themselves out and take that first step forward?

Chief Change Officer

#390 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part Two

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I would say definitely over 50. So should be between 80 to 90%.

Chief Change Officer

#390 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part Two

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This two-part series dives into her unique approach to joy, failure, growth, and learning. No more waiting. Let's get started. I understand one of your key workshops focuses on failure, and you even coined the term Belfluencers, a blend of failure and influencers. I'd love to dive into this topic, but from a personal perspective, could you share your own experiences with failure?

Chief Change Officer

#389 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part One

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This two-part series dives into her unique approach to joy, failure, growth, and learning. No more waiting. Let's get started. Welcome, Erin. Good morning to you. Where are you exactly?

Chief Change Officer

#389 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part One

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I understand one of your key workshops focuses on failure, and you even coined the term Belfluencers, a blend of failure and influencers. I'd love to dive into this topic, but from a personal perspective, could you share your own experiences with failure? Not so much the workshops you facilitate or the lessons you teach, but your personal journey.

Chief Change Officer

#389 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part One

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How you've dealt with, navigated, and grown from failure over time. If you like, feel free to share specific stories and give us an overview of your journey with failure. Either way works.

Chief Change Officer

#389 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Erin Deal, founder and CEO of Improved, a company that uses improv to help teams grow and thrive. Like me, she's also a top podcast host.

Chief Change Officer

#389 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part One

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Tomorrow in part two, Erin will continue her story of failure. And she comes up with a magical way of navigating and rising above the failure experience. She called this method move on. Come back tomorrow and learn how to move on. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#389 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part One

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#389 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part One

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He mentioned as a teenager, you were determined to become a talk show host. I find that intriguing. Honestly, most people in their teens or even in college don't really know what they want to do, let alone something as specific as hosting a talk show. I mean, when I tell people I set my sights on getting into business school and earning an MBA at age 15, they often say, seriously? At 15?

Chief Change Officer

#389 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part One

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It seems so young to have such a focused goal. But back to you, why talk show host? I imagine some might dream of being a news anchor or getting into show business. But for you, what was it about talk show hosting that drew you in? Especially back then, before podcasts even existed, what was the story behind that ambition?

Chief Change Officer

#389 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part One

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So you're essentially in the business of joy. That's it. The short form. not keynote speaker, not founder or CEO. If someone asks you for your elevator pitch, this should be the first sentence out of your mouth. Hey, I'm in the business of joy. Thank you, Vince. Yes. Let's say we are at a party. I introduce myself to you. Hey, I'm Vince. You reply, I'm Erin. Nice to meet you.

Chief Change Officer

#389 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part One

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Then I ask, what business are you in? And you hit me with, oh, I'm in the business of joy. Instant curiosity triggered. Naturally, I would say, oh, tell me more about that. is such a great icebreaker.

Chief Change Officer

#389 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part One

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So no problem quoting that. I'm in the business of Joyd, and hey, I got it on record now. I promise I won't charge you for copyright yet. But seriously, something else fascinating from history is your first client. You mentioned you tried things out with United Airlines, UA, and eventually they pay you and everything took off from there. So what was that initial experiment with United like?

Chief Change Officer

#389 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part One

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What exactly did you do? I mean, Today, your business, Business Improv, is this successful franchise. But let's rewind to the beginning. What was iPhone 1.0 version of your business? What did it look like back then?

Chief Change Officer

#389 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part One

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From a young age, Erin dreamed of becoming a talk show host. Why did she choose that path? And how did her journey lead her to combine improv and business? I told Erin, you are in the business of joy. But beyond joy, we also talked about failure. Erin calls herself a failfluencer. a blend of failure and influence.

Chief Change Officer

#389 Erin Diehl: From Talk Show Dreams to a Business Built on Bombing — Part One

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What are your key performance indicators? How do you measure success in your business? And just as importantly, how do you identify areas for improvement?

Chief Change Officer

#388 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#387 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part One

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And honestly, if we were going to do this properly, I would dedicate seven episodes, one for each habit. Because it's not just about the principles, it's about the practice. And with all the clients you've coached over the years, I'm sure you've seen some incredible stories of transformation. Is there one that stands out? Maybe a client who really struggled with one of the habits.

Chief Change Officer

#387 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part One

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Maybe they had their own reasons, their own roadblocks. But with your guidance, they were able to untangle themselves from that situation and fully embrace and practice the habit. Have you come across a case like that?

Chief Change Officer

#387 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part One

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I guess in today's terms, they call this active listening, or listening with curiosity, right? The reality is some people don't listen at all anymore, thanks to social media. Technology has trained people to communicate in a one-way street, just saying what they want to say, without any real interest in what others think. If they get a comment they don't like, they just delete it.

Chief Change Officer

#387 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are talking about leadership, trust, and why AI still can do what humans do best.

Chief Change Officer

#387 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part One

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Oh, this is hostile. I don't like it. But back to your point about real listening. Listening without judgment, without forming a response in your head while the other person is speaking. It's about being present, really hearing what someone is saying, stepping into their shoe. Maybe they're sharing a tough experience. Instead of immediately thinking, oh, how would I handle this?

Chief Change Officer

#387 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part One

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Todd Davis is from Franklin Covey, a name that's practically a household brand in the U.S. When it comes to leadership training, Franklin Covey is like Starbucks. Everyone knows it. At some point, almost everyone has either read one of the books or attended one of the trainings through the employers.

Chief Change Officer

#387 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part One

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Or what advice should I give? It's about sitting with that story, feeling what they are expressing. And in a business setting that's even harder, we are trained to analyze, to problem solve. Someone speaks, and we instantly jump to, oh, here's what you should do. But what you are saying is we should hold back.

Chief Change Officer

#387 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part One

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Instead of rushing to fix something, we should focus entirely on the speaker, the situation, the thought, the emotions. And only then, if they ask for advice, do we step in with insights? After fully understanding. Not before. Did I get that right?

Chief Change Officer

#387 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part One

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A lot of what you talk about in your book, you call them skills, human skills. I like to call them human intelligence. We live in a world where AI drives the conversation every day. It's about artificial intelligence. But what I've noticed over the past 10 to 15 years is a huge decline in human intelligence. I don't just mean things like empathy or resilience.

Chief Change Officer

#387 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part One

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And of course, one of the best-selling books in history is The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Honestly, who doesn't want to be more effective? But let's be real. Workplaces today are facing big challenges. So I want Todd to join me and talk about how these habits can help solve or at least alleviate some of these issues.

Chief Change Officer

#387 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part One

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I'm talking about basic skills, such as speaking, writing, listening. We have ears, we have eyes, we have a mouth, yet so many people don't even know how to communicate like real human beings. Some don't even know when to say thank you or sorry. And now people are outsourcing their thinking to AI.

Chief Change Officer

#387 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part One

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Writing, which is so deeply connected to thought, analysis, and expression, is being handed over to tools like ChatGPT. I worry that if we continue down this path, we'll start losing The art of being human. What do you think? Is this a real risk? And if so, how do we stop it?

Chief Change Officer

#387 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part One

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That's it for today. We've talked about what makes leaders actually effective. But next, we're diving into the real human side. Why trust works like a bank account. The biggest leadership blind spots. And why most people don't really listen. Oh, and wait till you hear Todd's present story. See you in part two.

Chief Change Officer

#387 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#387 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part One

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Now, Todd, before we get into the book, I always ask my guests about their own journey, the transitions they've made, the paths they've taken. But your story is different. You've been with Franklin Covey over 30 years. You are truly a loyalist. Tell us about your journey. What led you to Franklin Covey? What kept you there for three decades and how the role has evolved over the years?

Chief Change Officer

#387 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part One

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Then we'll dive deeper into the book and its impact.

Chief Change Officer

#387 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part One

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Unlike your job, unlike your current job, your current role, if you guys are hiring again, let me know. I'll send you my resume.

Chief Change Officer

#387 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part One

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Thank you. Now, you spend most of your career in the people function, serving as chief people officer for a long time. and even before and after that, staying deeply involved in people-focused roles. So while your title hasn't changed much, you've seen workplace challenges evolve over the years, both as the insider leading teams and as an outsider coaching and consulting with organizations.

Chief Change Officer

#387 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part One

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My guest is Todd Davis, former chief people officer at Franklin Covey, a properly listed leadership training company. Todd is the expert behind the bestseller, The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And I spent 30 years coaching leaders and managers on how to actually work well with people. In this two-part series, we get into the real stuff.

Chief Change Officer

#387 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part One

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That brings me to a natural question. what have you observed we can go a day without hearing about workplace issues such as downsizing burnout culture shifts every headline has something about the future of work from your perspective what's happening and why do you think the seven habits is not just still relevant but maybe even more critical today and in the years to come.

Chief Change Officer

#387 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part One

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The Seventh Habits, the latest version is a revised edition of the original. What's new? What's been updated? And why was now the right time for a refresh?

Chief Change Officer

#387 Todd Davis: Inside 30 Years at FranklinCovey—What Most Leaders Still Get Wrong — Part One

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Why most leaders think they are clear in communicating and giving instructions, but they aren't. How trust is built like a bank account. and why human intelligence is still the biggest competitive advantage. Oh, there's a wild story about these seven habits changing someone's life in the prison. Let's dive right in. Todd, good afternoon. Welcome to our show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#78 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm joined by Nellie Wartoff, someone I'd like to call the chief change officer behind Change Leaders.

Chief Change Officer

#78 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part Two

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I see you as the chief change officer behind all the change leaders you work with, guiding them to maximize the success of their initiatives. But as the founder and CEO of your own firm, you're also managing change within your own organization, including hiring, scaling, and evolving as you grow. So how do you approach change management within your own firm?

Chief Change Officer

#78 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part Two

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Do you bring in independent consultants to guide the process? Or do you rely on your own expertise to lead and execute these changes? What does change look like from your side of the table?

Chief Change Officer

#78 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part Two

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I call this walk the walk and talk the talk leadership. I would like to bring you back and talk more about change, but next time it will be on video. We're launching the YouTube channel very soon. So after the holidays, please come back, Nelly. Thank you very much for your time today. Yeah, that sounds great. We'll be happy to. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#78 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part Two

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When it comes to change, a lot of it goes beyond technology. It's ultimately rooted in human behavior and cultural nuances. you've had the unique experience of living and working across Europe, Asia, and now the US, which brings with it an incredible range of perspectives.

Chief Change Officer

#78 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part Two

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Given your background and your exposure to diverse clients, I'm curious, how do you see cultural differences play out when it comes to people's reactions to change, Even the concept of change itself, whether it is a mindset shift or a full-scale transformation, can vary dramatically across regions.

Chief Change Officer

#78 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part Two

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Have you noticed any significant differences or similarities in how these cultures approach and perceive change? And how do you adapt your solutions to help clients tackle those cultural nuances more effectively?

Chief Change Officer

#78 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part Two

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Originally from Europe, she spent years in Asia, especially in Singapore, working across cultures. Now based in US, Nellie is the founder and CEO of Tiger Hall, a tech-driven platform helping organizations navigate change more effectively. This is part one of a two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

#78 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part Two

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When we first met, you told me some intriguing insights from your experiences, specifically why certain change initiatives fail while others succeed. You pointed out that there are common pitfalls that lead to failure and that understanding can uncover valuable opportunities to set the stage for success. Could you share with us some of those common reasons for failure?

Chief Change Officer

#78 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part Two

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Maybe you've seen recurring patterns or perhaps you can recall specific examples without naming names of how these failures played out. And on the flip side, what approaches have you found to be especially effective in laying the groundwork for a successful change initiative?

Chief Change Officer

#78 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part Two

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In these episodes, we'll dive into navigating cultural differences across three regions, why most change initiatives fail, and how to set up for success. If you've ever struggled with change, whether in your career, company, or life, this series is for you. Let's get started. What triggered you to start this company in the very first place?

Chief Change Officer

#78 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part Two

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Yeah, like you said, human nature is universal. Fear, ego, emotions, and office politics exist everywhere, regardless of culture, gender, or age. My friend's story about working in a big bank in Asia captures a common sentiment that is frustration about change management tools or processes that feel imposed rather than embraced.

Chief Change Officer

#78 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part Two

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She mentioned how the software forced employees to fit into its framework rather than adapting to their needs. And the feedback process? She described it as a formality where no one feels safe or motivated to speak the truth, just filling in responses for the sake of it. that sense of disengagement is palpable.

Chief Change Officer

#78 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part Two

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I'm curious, from your perspective, have you encountered similar resistance in your work? How do you ensure that tools or processes don't just check the box for change, but actually engage and empower the people they are meant to serve?

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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You mentioned that you and Deborah, the co-founder of WorkStreet Institute, worked on this book together with you. I know there's quite a story behind how this book came to be. Can you share that with us here?

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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That's the web for today. We've broken down why traditional employment is crumbling and why companies need to wake up before they lose their best talent. But how do we actually rebuild work for the future? In the next episode, George takes us behind the scenes of his book, Employment Is Dead. from a cold call to a major publishing deal. Don't miss it. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into the future of work with George Dream. George is a Harvard MBA, a startup founder, and the co-author of the book called Employment is Dead.

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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Let's dive right in. First of all, who you really are, what you have done in the past. Then we'll deep dive into different elements of your journey.

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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Yeah, I couldn't agree more about the short-term mindset. I've studied economics, finance, and accounting, and at the end of the day, even with the best intentions, a competent, capable, and purpose-driven CEO, a chief HR officer, or any senior leader still has to balance doing good with making money. They look at the numbers, the bottom line, and all the financial metrics.

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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They ask, how was our accounting income this quarter? What's our cash position? And eventually, they make decisions, sometimes tough ones like cutting jobs. To them, it's ultimately just a number. It feels cold, but that's the reality of how these decisions are made. And yet, in financial reports, you always see the same message. People are our greatest asset.

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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But let's be real, on the financial statements, people are not listed as assets. They are categorized as an expense item on the income statement, not something quantified on the balance sheet that drives revenue and income. So while the message says people first, the decision-making still comes down to numbers. In the end, employees are just HR records sitting in the cloud.

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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Now, I'm not saying this to discredit well-intentioned HR leaders or CEOs. It's just the reality of how businesses operate. Before we get into Wall Street Institute and the solutions you're building for these big challenges, I want to take a step back and talk about your own career journey. You've observed these issues firsthand. And what about your personal experience?

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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When you were fresh off college, studying psychology, working under different leaders and managers, what did that look like for you? Then you went to Harvard for your MBA and learned to be more innovative in your approach. Let's start with your early career. How did your experiences shape the way you see these challenges today and influence the solutions you're working on?

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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Yes, you hear it right. That is a very bold statement. But he's got a story to back it up. Across this three-part series, We'll explore why traditional employment models are failing, how emerging technologies like Web3 and AI are reshaping work, and what companies must do to survive.

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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You started with psychology, then went to business school, and now you are in Web3. That's quite the journey. I'm curious about that transition, not just in the sense of switching jobs, but more about what shifted in your mindset. A lot of people see psychology as a soft skill field and tech as a hard skill domain. So what was it for you? Was there something about Web3 that really fascinated you?

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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Something that made you think, this is the technology that can truly change the world for good? What was the trigger that pushed you into this uncharted territory coming from a psychology background?

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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We'll also go behind the scenes of George's book, how a cold call turned into a major publishing deal, and why the old ways of managing people just don't cut it anymore. Whether you are an employee, an employer, or just curious about where work is headed, this series will challenge the way you think. Good morning, Josh. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. It's very early morning for you there.

Chief Change Officer

#250 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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So, would it be fair to say that the metaverse, Web3, and all these emerging technologies are essentially breaches, tools that help us redefine the employee experience? Not just in one way, but in ways that actually make sense for our lives, our productivity, our outcome, and our well-being? Would you put it that way?

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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Second, I selected those who knew me well enough, spending various parts of my life, some friendships going back 30 years, others from the last decade. I intentionally created a diverse pool to get a wide range of viewpoints. Additionally, these friends saw me in different roles and at different times, so they each had unique perspectives on my evolution.

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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I aimed for a meaningful balance, enough for people to get diverse insights, but not so many that the feedback would become irrelevant. I felt 50 was just right. More wouldn't have added value if the people were not as closely connected with me.

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Superpower? First of all, most of them mentioned that I am a deep thinker. Words like logical, analytical, and persistent came up frequently. Once I decide to pursue something, They see me as unwavering in following in through. Interestingly, some offered perspectives I had not considered myself.

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For example, Waverly Dorch, my former professor from Chicago Booth, who is also my guest on the show in Season 2 if anyone is interested, She commented on my ability to do math and tell stories, which, in her words, is a rare combination. I took this as a positive compliment given her unique background. She is a Ph.D. in theater history.

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with an undergrad degree in computer science, combining both artistic and quantitative strengths in her teaching of entrepreneurship and business. Her lens on my skills was influenced by her own experience as someone who bridges the gap between art and science. One takeaway here is that the people you choose to ask for feedback come with their own perspectives.

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The insights into your strengths are inevitably influenced and limited by their backgrounds. That's why selecting a diverse group thoughtfully chosen for their varied experiences is key to gaining a well-rounded understanding of your superpowers.

Chief Change Officer

#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. If you've been listening to my show, you know I bring guests from all corners of the world to share their stories.

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Exactly. And that's the key point I want to emphasize. This is precisely why AI cannot replace the human touch. AI has incredible data capacity and can assist in generating a vast amount of content, but it lacks the nuanced understanding that comes from genuine human connection.

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Hallucination issues aside, even when it comes to reading emotions, we still don't have technology that truly reflects the depth of understanding needed. Some advancements are being made in emotion detection, But it's far from capturing the authentic experience of sitting across from someone, reading their body language, responding naturally, and engaging in a meaningful, unscripted conversation.

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In this three-part series, we'll journey through Chris' experiences in three stages. In the last two days, part one, part two, We've explored his expertise in helping businesses craft compelling corporate stories and understand the connection between story and narrative.

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That's where the human element remains irreplaceable.

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Chris, I really want to thank you for your time today. You've been incredibly generous, actually giving me a full 90 minutes of your time.

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Until next time, take care.

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#249 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Three

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We've also looked at storytelling for personal transformation as Chris shared some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard or felt. He has also opened up about his own mental health challenges. Today, part three, he'll introduce tools we can use to develop our own stories and narratives. And here's a personal confession. I told him one of his exercises might just make me cry.

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I'll also be sharing my own experience with another exercise, highlighting both its challenges and insights. So let's dive into the final chapter of Chris' story. So for those listening, who might not have direct access to professional guidance, what can they do to craft and shape their own stories?

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Whether they are in career transition, facing personal challenges, or just feeling stuck, what would you suggest as essential steps for creating a story that truly resonates with who they are?

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Through these stories, we dive into hindsight, insights, and foresight for you, the progressive-minded listeners who crave change. Whether you're navigating a career shift a personal transformation like health challenges or driving change in your organization or community, there's something here for you. Today's episode has a unique twist.

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First, let me admit, the movie theater exercise is something I'll definitely want to try. Please do send me the worksheet. I can imagine that if I were in that theater alone, I would likely cry even though I'm not typically one to shed tears, not even happy ones. But picturing myself in that situation, not so much at retirement, but maybe at the end of my life, it would move me deeply.

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As for the 360-degree feedback, I actually did a version of this a few years ago, not with just three to five people. but with about 50 people across different periods of my life. Some friends from 30 years ago, others from 20 or 10 years back, covering a range of relationships and contexts. I asked each of them to answer, what do you see as my superpower?

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and to share words that came to mind when they thought of me. Each one responded with their unique insights. Elaborating on their thoughts, I took notes on everything, gathered the data points, and even created a spreadsheet to track common themes. My Chicago training pushed me to analyze these patterns, and it was fascinating to see the traits that surfaced across the board.

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That exercise gave me meaningful clarity and reinforced aspects of myself I felt aligned with. It was incredibly helpful.

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I'm interviewing a storytelling expert to share his own story. My guest, Chris Hare, is a strategic narrative advisor and coach for companies like Amazon and Microsoft, guiding leaders and executives with his approach called Atomic Storytelling. His method breaks down complex stories into their cool, resonant elements.

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Other lesson I learned goes back to my days. as an MBA admissions interviewer. You mentioned input and output, and it got me thinking about how MBA and law programs and similar institutions often shape future alumni and leaders. It's not only about the narrative they tell, it's about how they select candidates.

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They choose specific types of people with qualities that maximize the likelihood of success. That's why these schools can point to impressive alumni is by design. Why does this relate to the feedback exercise I did with my 50 friends? Because I was equally thoughtful about who I chose. First, I knew they would be willing to give me a solid 30 minutes of their time or even more.

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#196 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today at our studio, we welcome James Helofsky from Riverside in Southern California.

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So, I have great respect for franchising as a business model that can positively transform lives. Let's discover how James has used franchising for the greater good for both athletes and everyday people. Good morning, James. How are you doing today?

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When you look back at these examples where you acted as the advisor and matchmaker, helping them figure out the plans and goals, What are the three qualities that stand out in these successful individuals? These qualities could be skill, mindsets, psychological traits, or something related to the sports they play.

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Can you name some key qualities that are common and contribute to success in franchising for these athletes?

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

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#196 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part One

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James joins us in a very timely moment. As we speak, this is the second week of the Olympic Games. Today, we are talking about sports, especially the lives of athletes. Before we dive into that, I'll let James introduce himself, share his background, his history, and his career path.

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Then we'll jump right into our discussion on athletes, on business, on franchises, and how all these things link together.

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So when exactly did you start this franchise consulting business?

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So around the time COVID started, what was the situation for you in terms of building your business? It sounds like you had gained trust from some athlete and entered their circle, building confidence. But then we faced this lifetime crisis, so much uncertainty. As an entrepreneur, how did you navigate the landscape? And eventually, how did you get through it and return to normal?

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James runs a unique franchise consulting business, primarily serving retired athletes from the NBA and NFL who are starting new chapters in their lives as franchisees. He also helps regular people with their franchise businesses. James believes that using his expertise in franchising to change lives and livelihoods of families and future generations is a dream come true endeavor.

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Yeah, we'll definitely touch upon the idea of regular people getting involved in the franchise business, especially with all the changes in the job market. But before we get into that, let's go back to the sports world and the athletes.

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I remember you've mentioned before, both in our conversations and on social media, that there are many parallels between the sports business and franchising in terms of generating revenue streams. Could you explain how that works? How do sports franchises compare to regular franchising?

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So it sounds like you are saying that the way franchising is set up and run is similar to the environment in which athletes are trained, following rules, knowing the rules, and so on. But what about the cost and revenue structure and all those other business aspects?

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When you invest in or get involved in a business, you always consider the business model, revenue, costs, hiring, marketing, et cetera. Do you see similarities or parallels in the business world that apply to the sports world? In other words, does the environment athletes are trained in make it easier for them to transition into the business world?

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I haven't been a franchisee or franchisor myself, But I do have experience with the franchise business. Many years ago, when my parents immigrated to Canada with zero local experience and connections, they ventured into franchising to make a living. Despite the hardships, using franchising as a means to fulfill the dream of becoming immersed and settled in the community was life-changing.

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Can you share some successful examples of clients you've worked with? You can name names if it's okay, or just tell us about the factors and elements that help these athletes transition well into their businesses. How did the process unfold and what was the eventual outcome?

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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People generally resist change unless it is stressed upon them unexpectedly and without clear reasoning, logic, or alternatives, as many experienced during COVID. However, if the conditions for change are managed well, involving and consulting those affected throughout the process people can and will embrace change. Don't you agree, Steve?

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So speaking of innovation and change and how it's sometimes resisted or embraced. You and I previously discussed an interesting case involving a bank in the Philippines. You mentioned that a particular segment of the staff there, the more mature, often overlooked group, actually contributed significantly to innovation efforts after you engaged with them.

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I wanted to bring this up because there's a common belief in the tech world that older employees might not be as tech savvy as their younger counterparts, which can lead to ageism in the workplace. From your experience, can you share how you've seen mature employees contribute to innovation And what are your thoughts on overcoming this legacy mindset that sometimes holds back valuable talent?

Chief Change Officer

#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'll be chatting with Steve Monaghan.

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Just how inspiring is he? Stay tuned for the next 30 minutes and you'll find out. Good morning, Steve.

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Why do you think the younger people don't know how to ask relevant or right questions as opposed to the older members of the team?

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They really bring a hands-on perspective to the table. These employees have been in the trenches, experiencing the pain points of the workflows long before technology was introduced. They've lived through the problems, which means they are uniquely positioned to see where technology can solve issues or where processes might actually benefit from a more human touch.

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This blend of human insight and technology leads to a more seamless integration. What I would call a true artificial intelligence where it's not just tech, but a smart combination of machine and human working together.

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AI is always a big topic. But let's switch gears to talk about your next big thing. You've mentioned to me that you're working on something really, really interesting and meaningful. Groundbreaking, if I can use this word. Tell us more.

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That sounds exciting. I can't wait to see the progress. It's bound to have a huge and tremendous economic and social impact. When you're ready, let me know and I'll send in my resume, okay? Now, you mentioned you are deeply involved in both executing and investing in this project. This brings me to another critical issue many entrepreneurs face, mental wellness.

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Could you share your observations or experiences with your investees on how they manage their mental wellness How do you support them through the ups and downs?

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Some investors might be less understanding when it comes to situations like this, but you seem more open and empathetic. Perhaps that's because of your diverse experiences in different roles and capacities.

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There's a common notion among entrepreneurs that discussing mental health issues openly with investors, co-founders, or even team members might shake their confidence in your leadership or influence their investment decisions. From your diverse perspective as an entrepreneur, as an investor, as an innovator in big corporations, how do you handle this?

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How do you address the stigma or reservations that some might have about mental health in a high-pressure environment of startups?

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There's a really important point to emphasize. Mental health issues are not exclusive to entrepreneurs. they affect anyone, from entrepreneurs to employees to CEOs. I've personally faced mental health challenges three times myself, with two of those occurring during my time in corporate roles. It's something many of us might encounter regardless of our positions.

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#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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Absolutely. Before we wrap up this conversation on mental health, in particular concerning entrepreneurs, what advice would you give to them or even to those who want to support other entrepreneurs with their mental wellness? What are some possible solutions you see? Perhaps some solutions might be tech-driven. What others could be more about creating supportive communities or programs?

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How can we help entrepreneurs not just move forward, but also regain their confidence to become more resilient, allowing them to fully leverage the brilliance, confidence, resilience, and brilliance, a perfect formula for entrepreneurs.

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Steve, earlier in our conversation, you highlighted the critical role of learning in your career transitions and how it's been a sustainable advantage for you. Reflecting on your passion for learning through reading, particularly on complex topics such as AI, could you share how you believe this habit of deep, focused reading has impacted your mental wellness?

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Additionally, do you think there are specific ways that engaging with such intellectually stimulating materials can help others manage their mental health?

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That's a wrap. Thank you so much, Steve. I'll surely get you back here very soon, as long as you have time.

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Let's take a moment to recap the key insights from our conversation with Steve. Here are eight crucial takeaways. Number one, learning is the key to unlocking transformation, not just for organizations, also for personal career development. Number two, embracing learning means embracing failure. The real value lies in what we learn from those failures. Number three,

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Having an outsider's perspective can be incredibly valuable, offering a fresh, untainted view and adding a new dimension to problem-solving. Number four, change is always met with resistance. The trick to overcoming this opposition is by transforming a no-no situation into a know knowledge, helping people understand the why and how of change. Number five, empower people to own the change process.

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This approach helps eliminate their fear and can drive change more effectively and extensively. Number six, mature and experienced employees bring significant advantages in the era of AI. Their firsthand experience with workflow pain points before technology intervention places them in a unique position to integrate technology seamlessly and enhance processes with a human touch.

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Number seven, pay attention to mental wellness, whether it's for employees or entrepreneurs. Everyone can be affected by mental health challenges in one way or another. Number eight, maintain a balanced reading portfolio. It's essential for staying informed, curious, and effective in continuous learning. Until next time, take care.

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#195 Steve Monaghan: From Flying High to Finance Disruptor — No Seatbelts Required

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Wow, it's fascinating to hear how your career journey has evolved, particularly how you've navigated from aviation to technology, software, and hardware, then deeper into various sectors of finance and entrepreneurship across different regions and countries. What's the core motivation that keeps you moving forward, especially in taking on vicious projects?

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I first met Steve back around 2015 or 2016 in Hong Kong when he was the regional director at AIA, one of the leading insurance groups in the Asia Pacific. He was running a unique health technology accelerator at the time. Later, I invited him to be a venture coach and judge for the University of Chicago's first-ever Global New Venture Challenge, hosted right here in Hong Kong.

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Your personal website kicks off with a bold statement, learning the foundation for sustainable competitive advantage. He also openly mentioned, I've succeeded and I've failed always learning. Could you share with us some candid insights about times when things didn't go as planned?

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Specifically, could you tell us about what you've learned from these setbacks and failures in your career and innovation projects?

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You've really lived and worked all over the globe. Singapore, India, Saudi Arabia, Hong Kong, Silicon Valley, and now Japan. Everywhere you've been, you've been the outsider. How do you think this foreigner identity has shaped your approach as a leader driving change?

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It's really insightful to hear how you've managed to change and overcome resistance in your roles. Could you elaborate on how you've tackled the challenge of people's natural fear of change in your work? In particular, when introducing new technologies or business models, how have you transformed a simple no? into know, knowledge, and acceptance. And what role did learning play in this process?

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Since then, he's moved to Tokyo. We've called up a few times, both in Japan and back in Hong Kong. To me, Steve embodies authenticity. He is consistently successful and resilient in the face of setbacks. Largely because, I believe, he is always true to himself. He walks the walk and talks the talk. A real leader and an incredibly inspiring speaker. How could I not invite him to the podcast then?

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The motto of a podcast is make your laws of change. Steve has shared his own laws of change on his website, which I'll link in the show notes to those interested. He outlines three core principles. First, that change is always met with opposition. Second, that implementing change requires a forceful effort And third, that the larger the organization, the greater the force needed to enact change.

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These principles aren't just relevant to organizational shifts. They apply to personal transformations too, such as career changes, something many of us are facing today. Take the first principle, change is always opposed If you are in a stable job with a decent income, why risk what you have for the uncertainty of change? The second principle states that change requires force.

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Whether it's due to layoffs or needing to relocate, the push and pull factors must be compelling enough to drive the change. Finally, similar to large organizations needing greater force to change, the higher you are in your career, the more you have a stake, and the stronger the impetus needed to push you through a transition.

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#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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You've managed complex operations involving stakeholders with different interests, agendas, and goals that sometimes, and especially in the unusual and intense time period, conflict with collective objectives. Now, at Yale, you're engaging with a wide range of groups. What is your approach to managing these multi-stakeholder relationships?

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As you're well aware, this is crucial not only to the success of your role, but also to the impact you aim to achieve.

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#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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I'll save the specifics for you to discover in this episode. Among many roles, George was pivotal in managing Connecticut's COVID-19 health response. For those interested in his contribution during that critical period, check out the YouTube link in the show notes where he hosted a press conference. Without further ado, let's dive in.

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#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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A cliche question at this point would be, oh, Josh, what's your typical day at Yale? Well, I believe there isn't any typical day. So let me flip the question. Tell us about what are some of the things that you try to help with the Yale communities day in and day out?

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#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we're talking with Josh Chabot, the managing director of Yale Ventures. You've likely heard of Yale University, but what about Yale Ventures?

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#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Given your role in building and developing the innovation ecosystem at Yale, you interact with faculty, scholars. I presume a lot of MBA students from the Yale School of Management would come to you for guidance.

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#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Considering the challenges, career challenges in particular, that MBA students face today, whether they are exploring corporate roles or interested in entrepreneurship, and with the tough funding market for new founders, what career advice would you offer them?

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#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Behavior-related advice? What books would you recommend to those who are interested in entrepreneurship or already in entrepreneurship?

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#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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This is the last question of the day, and I want you to give me your honest answer. You've had a very successful corporate career. Then you joined a startup as a professional CEO, eventually took them into acquisition. Then you joined the public administration to help them deal with once-in-a-lifetime crisis in human history.

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#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Now, you are working at one of the most famous universities in the world to build and drive an innovation ecosystem. So what else is in your career life that you may want to do in your future? What may be the missing piece? Would it be perhaps at some point you will become a founder to found company, to build it, to scale it on your own?

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#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Great, great news for everyone in the Yale Innovation Community. I really wish we had someone like you around when we were as a school. Josh, thank you so much for your time. Please come back and tell us more about the founder stories and the innovations activities happening at Yale, Yale Haven in Connecticut, also upcoming Yale Innovation Summit.

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#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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For those of you who are unfamiliar with this event, this is an annual event usually happening in May. And this year will be May 29th and 30th with Chelsea Clinton as the keynote speaker. Just to clarify, this is not a paid ad. My podcast doesn't do paid promotions at this stage. It's definitely an event worth checking out, especially if you are close to the Yale campus.

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#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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I hope to make it there myself next year. And Josh, come back to the podcast whenever you have time. You're always welcome here.

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Until next time, take care.

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#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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I spoke with our classmate, Irina, in an earlier episode. She is founded and is now leading a new venture in the energy transition sector. Like you, she has made several significant career transitions since MBA. I find each of them fascinating. When I asked her about the common themes in her career moves, she said two things, self-starter and curiosity.

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#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Before we dive deeper into each phase of your career, what have been your main drivers for exploring and trying new things over the past 20 years?

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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You've got a strong background in astrology from your education at Yale, then as astrology consultant at IBM, diving deep into business strategies with solid logic. But when it comes to something more personal, such as career decisions, career moves, It seems like even for analytical minds like ours, there's a need to balance logic with psychology.

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#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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If I have to use an economic term, it is about finding equilibrium between the two. Have you encountered any mental hurdles while trying to decide on a Korean booth? Or in figuring out if a decision is right or worthwhile? If you have, how do you navigate the psychological ups and downs in your career decisions?

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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I'd like to explore more about your move from IBM to a startup. Early in your career, after completing your MBA at Yale, you started as a consultant at IBM. That was amazing. Remember that was 2002 after 911. A lot of us were challenged to get a full-time job upon graduation. Yet you got a full-time job offer from IBM. After about a decade with IBM, you move to a venture.

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#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Where, if I remember correctly, you were the 16th employee. What was going through your mind when you made the switch from a well-established firm to a startup that you needed to help grow? What was your gut feeling about the transition?

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#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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It's a key part of the Yale's innovation ecosystem, collaborating with faculty, students, entrepreneurs, and local governments to drive all sorts of innovation activities. Yale Ventures, for example, helps scientists and scholars turn their inventions into real products, the commercialization process, so to speak.

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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I bet you must have experienced a lot of cultural shock in this transition.

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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You joined the public sector during a very interesting time from 2019 to 2022. You were responsible for Connecticut's COVID health response efforts. Can you share with us some of your insights from your experience during this period of time?

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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A system in raising money, build teams, and support students in developing the innovation ideas. And a little personal note, George and I are both MBA alum from the Yale School of Management. We both graduated in year 2002. He chose a path in consulting. I went into finance. George's career has been nothing short of remarkable, filled with impact and challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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The COVID-19 pandemic was truly a once in a lifetime event that went beyond anything we've learned from traditional business or management textbooks. Reflecting on that unusual and intense period, what were your main challenges?

Chief Change Officer

#194 Yale Ventures Managing Director Josh Geballe: Bridging the Academic-Entrepreneurial Divide

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Using your consultant mindset and entrepreneurial experience, how did you address or mitigate these challenges as you learned and adapted to find better and more effective solutions for all?

Chief Change Officer

#115 From Wall Street to What’s Next: Katie Curry on Risk and Reinvention

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In our culture, the way we've been taught, we often think that being a top-notch leader is all about having a flashy title, a fat wallet, and a ton of power. But we're in the era of change. Things are changing around us so rapidly. I believe the measure of success and what it means to be excellent as a leader has evolved. Now, excellence is all about resilience.

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#115 From Wall Street to What’s Next: Katie Curry on Risk and Reinvention

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It's not just about how big your title, how rich you are, and how much power you hold today. It's about how well you bounce back from changes and how long the game you play into tomorrow. Katie, with that in mind, how do you view your leadership style? And perhaps what kind of leader do you see yourself as?

Chief Change Officer

#115 From Wall Street to What’s Next: Katie Curry on Risk and Reinvention

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Lots of adventures, lots of failure, lots of success, and lots of resilience. Here comes my good old friend, Katie.

Chief Change Officer

#115 From Wall Street to What’s Next: Katie Curry on Risk and Reinvention

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So Katie, you and I are Gen X, but you have another identity. You are a mother of two. They're both Gen Z. They're still in school, but at some point they will enter the workforce. In the office, you manage a wide range of generations. So as a mother and leader, leading generations, younger generations. Can you share with us about your take on working with them?

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#115 From Wall Street to What’s Next: Katie Curry on Risk and Reinvention

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According to the World Economic Forum, Gen Z will account for more than a quarter of the workforce by year 2025. They will become a force to reckon with. These young adults are well-versed in technologies and social media. Recruiters and managers must learn how to lead, motivate, and work with this growing cohort. So next time, join me as we catch up with Katie.

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#115 From Wall Street to What’s Next: Katie Curry on Risk and Reinvention

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She got some real talk on leading Gen Z at work. She'll also be sharing three career tips specially tailored for them. And we'll take a sneak peek at Katie's personal learning routines and her top book recommendation. Thank you so much for joining us today.

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#115 From Wall Street to What’s Next: Katie Curry on Risk and Reinvention

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If you like what you heard, don't forget subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#115 From Wall Street to What’s Next: Katie Curry on Risk and Reinvention

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Your finance career is centered around risk. So what does risk mean to you in life and in career?

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#115 From Wall Street to What’s Next: Katie Curry on Risk and Reinvention

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ah, I'd like to learn more about your learning habit these days. We'll come back to you on this. But go back to your transformation, the changes you've gone through. So in your life so far, you've moved from Bulgaria to United States, from New York City to New Haven, Connecticut, then back to New York from banking into credit rating agency, and now into insurance in a growing venture.

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#115 From Wall Street to What’s Next: Katie Curry on Risk and Reinvention

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Katie and I share a background in risk assessment and measurement, well trained and developed through years of working with banks, fund houses, and insurance companies. But when it comes to her career, Katie has taken her understanding of risk to a new level, stepping out of her comfort zone with a deliberate approach.

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#115 From Wall Street to What’s Next: Katie Curry on Risk and Reinvention

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So throughout all these different stages and forms of transformations, what's your approach to managing changes over time?

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#115 From Wall Street to What’s Next: Katie Curry on Risk and Reinvention

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Mental toughness. The border term is resilience. Now, since you bring up the term mental toughness, so let me move on to the next question about the mental side of things. You and I come from a very strong business education background. And in business education program, we are trained to be highly analytical, strongly logical,

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#115 From Wall Street to What’s Next: Katie Curry on Risk and Reinvention

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especially for business, but even when it comes to managing our life and career, we have been very thoughtful, but also very analytical, a lot of back and forth analysis, pros and cons. But we have our psychology, we're after a human, and business education is light on that kind of training. So when it comes to your reinvention,

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#115 From Wall Street to What’s Next: Katie Curry on Risk and Reinvention

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How you balance the logic side of you as well as the psychology side of you.

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#115 From Wall Street to What’s Next: Katie Curry on Risk and Reinvention

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Like me, Katie has her share of navigating and overcoming multiple rounds of reinventions through diverse cultures. In her case, from small town to Big Apple, from Bulgaria to United States, from communism to Wall Street, from New York City to Yale School of Management, from established credit rating agency to a tech innovation company in the insurance industry.

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#115 From Wall Street to What’s Next: Katie Curry on Risk and Reinvention

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Speaking of resilience, of change, of reinvention, A lot of people are risk-averse, if I keep using the risk concept. You know, they have fear of failure. They're afraid that they will fail. That's also another fear, fear of judgment. They don't like to be judged. They don't like to be questioned. What's your personal definition of failure and success after so many years on the Wall Street?

Chief Change Officer

#115 From Wall Street to What’s Next: Katie Curry on Risk and Reinvention

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In today's episode, I'll be chatting with a dear friend from my Yale days, Katrina Curry, or as many know her as Katie.

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#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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According to him, in order to change, we need to first unfreeze, a stage where we understand the need and find the motivation to change. Second, change, the stage where you move towards a different behavior. Third, re-freeze, a stage where you solidify the change and establish that new behavior as the norm. In Poehling's case,

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#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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You mentioned that you are a keen learner. So can you suggest books that have helped you learn, helped you grow over time and move forward?

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#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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Every guest, they will suggest some books that have inspired them. So that's why I like to share their collective knowledge, collective inspirations with our audience. So that's the reason why I asked you about your source of inspiration. I'm also a keen reader. I've published two books and I'm writing my third. So that's also a reason why I always like to share knowledge. I also like to share.

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#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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learn from each other. Like you said, you like to learn from other people's stories. The issues you mentioned, mental health, aging population, I can't resonate with you more about aging, isolation. I'm also only child myself. Like you said, retired people, older people, either stay with their spouse or live alone or live with a helper.

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#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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Mental health, not only for youth, but basically for all ages. Women, 50% of the world population, yet not well-represented, under-empowered. So next time when you come back, tell us more about what you learned from stories of people around you from your stakeholders, older members of the communities, but also members of the youth, as well as the women.

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#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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Despite all these systematic issues, at the same time, lots of opportunities for us to drive change. Tell us more about those changes that you have over time pursued and how you are still in the fight for more changes for your communities.

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#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

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#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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In the first stage, unfreeze, if you recall in part one of our interview, I asked her specifically about the why, about the need and the motivation to change from psychology to business consulting, from private individual to public officer. So the need and the motivation to change, figure it out. This stage is very personal, it's about you. You may not get 100% of the why yet.

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#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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80, 90%, that's already very good. Because in the next stage when you're going through the process of change, you will get to know more about yourself. So you'll figure out more, but you do need to start with a good chunk of understanding of your need and the motivation to change at the early stage, as in Pei Ling's case. The second stage, change, is the hardest part.

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#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In her last episode, we look at how Pei Ling overcame the darkest period in her life, transforming from being a psychology major into winning the general election as the youngest elected parliamentarian.

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#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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We start with thinking of yourself, but then in the second stage, you have to go beyond yourself, go above yourself. You need to think like a social psychologist. Change behavior is a function of a person and a situation. In the first days, you figure out yourself, the person, but what about the situation? What in that environment... that helps you drive and sustain the change.

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#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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What factors affect your behavior? What are some of the negative reinforcement factors? Well, in Pei Ling's case, for example, attacks in person and social media. What are the positive reinforcement factors? In Pei Ling's case, she got the support from the political party. In your case, you work in a big firm. You got support from a boss, from a CEO, from a board of directors.

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#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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You are an entrepreneur. You got support from your investors. Good for you. But that's only one piece of the situation. In Painting's case, she went out there, exposed herself, faced the people, faced the challenges, trying to turn distrust into trust, to win the hearts and minds of people, get the buy-in in order to fit in. On top of that, she went for an MBA degree.

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#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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She tried to build up her knowledge base to become more business savvy, But it's not just the body of knowledge or the fame of the degree. A lot of people thinking of getting an MBA degree missed the point. It's the situation you got yourself in that makes a difference in your life and career. In Pei Ling's case, she was younger, had less business experiences, let alone international experiences.

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#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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But then, in those two years, she got direct exposure, direct interaction with people from all around the world, classmates who are more mature, more experienced, from all walks of life, and plus the professors. the deep knowledge in a lot of areas. Within two years, she built up not just the momentum of her growth, but the solid foundation for her to keep going on and on and on.

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#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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So that's the value of an MBA degree in her situation. not to mention about a very important ecosystem of support she has nurtured over time. When she refreezes as a confident woman leader to fight for the interests of her people, she got all of those elements in place. It's about her, but it's also about her To recap, three-step model of change.

Chief Change Officer

#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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First, unfreeze, where you figure out yourself the need and the motivation to change. Second, Think like a social psychologist. Figure out your environment. Remember, change behavior is a function of a person and a situation. Figure out the strengthening and the weakening factors. Magnify the positive reinforcement factors. Downplay the negative reinforcement factors.

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#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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In some cases, the situation isn't just right for you, then get out of it. You don't have to get yourself stuck in that. Change your game. Get onto another stage for you to sing, to dance, to perform, and outperform. Third, solidify all of these change elements. They're self-reinforcing to each other, so you're essentially building yourself a wider and deeper foundation.

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#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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Taking you from the older self to the future self in a much more sustainable and successful manner. There is no overnight success. That's just a myth. Any success, any sustainable success always takes patience, effort, and a deep process of change. Now, let's go back to Pei Ling's story. Let's look at her model of change, how she made her own law of change to play the long game.

Chief Change Officer

#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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I met you around 2013 when you started MBA. When I recall the statistics of our class, the average age was 37. You were among the youngest. What's the logic and psychology behind your decision to pursue an MBA degree after you got into politics?

Chief Change Officer

#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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She discussed how facing biases related to age and gender has made her more resilient, both in terms of stamina and ability. A happy ending story for sure, but is that it? Of course not. That's why we have part two. Before we dive in, let me share with you one golden rule of success in driving and sustaining change.

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#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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How would you describe your two years experience studying with people who are from different walks of life and most of us are older, have different experience from you?

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#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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Yeah, or part of your growth process. You are always on call as an elected member of the parliament. Always community works, always on. And then you finish your MBA education, you move back to the real world. You got your private sector job, full-time job. You got this public duty. And you're a mother of two. How do you balance, not just balancing your timetables, but also the roles you played?

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#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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How do you balance all these different responsibilities and duties?

Chief Change Officer

#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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Whatever change you try to make, lose weight, launch a new product, or even trying to stage a large-scale transformation project at your firm, this rule applies. This is a three-stage model of change proposed by the founding father of social psychology, Kurt Lewin.

Chief Change Officer

#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host.

Chief Change Officer

#114 From Parliament to Parenthood: Tin Pei Ling On Balancing Change and Leadership

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You mentioned about women empowerment. Tell us a bit more about your work there, perhaps other issues that keep you busy, keep you on your toes there.

Chief Change Officer

#312 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part Two

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A lot of the skills they've built, such as deep analysis, complex writing, and some people may argue, oh, AI can do that now. But in a world that's moving so fast with tools evolving every day, how should they think about staying relevant? How do they future-proof themselves, not just compete with AI, but stand out because they are human?

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What would your advice be for those stepping into this next era of work and change?

Chief Change Officer

#312 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Mark Bayer, former US Senate Chief of Staff, now a communications coach for scientists, researchers, and policy leaders.

Chief Change Officer

#312 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part Two

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Yes, that's exactly how you and I got connected. It wasn't just through a mutual friend. It was also the topic. I saw that you were talking about transitions, especially for PhDs. And I realized, wow, that's something I haven't really covered on my show yet, but it's such an important topic. So that instantly caught my attention.

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#312 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part Two

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This is a great example of how real opportunities often start, not through cold applications, but through warm conversations. That's been true for me throughout my own career. I didn't work with headhunters much. Most of my roles came through personal referrals. Of course, I still had to earn it, do the interviews right, show I could do the job.

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pointed out some of the under-trained skills like speaking and writing that many PhDs struggle with when they enter the private sector. How exactly do you help them bridge those gaps? Do you have a specific approach or method you use? Can you walk us through what that looks like?

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#312 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part Two

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But getting in the door, that came from relationships. One thing I always remember, when I was in business school at Yale, the alumni helping us prep for interviews used to say, you know how bankers decide who to hire? It's not just your GPA. Everyone is smart anyway. is this, can I sit next to you on a 14-hour flight and not go crazy? That always stuck with me.

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#312 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part Two

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At the end of the day, people want to work with people they connect with. And that's something no resume can teach you, but a real conversation can.

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Exactly. Firms like Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, they can teach you finance. Even if you studied history, the technical skills are easy to train. But people skills, leadership, adaptability, agility, that's much harder to teach. That's why they often look for people from the military because they bring real leadership experience. that can't be replicated in a classroom or by other candidates.

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So if you are in a PhD program or have been in a PhD program, here's what I like to say. Dig deep into your human story, into your human history. Go beyond the research, the credentials. Share your lived experience. That's where your power is.

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#312 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part Two

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Those human moments, those challenges you've overcome, those other stories that stick, they are what people remember about you, and they just might be what lends you the job.

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#312 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part Two

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And that's the end of our conversation. Mark's work reminds us that when it comes to influence, your credentials alone aren't enough. People connect with people, not bullet points. You've ever felt dismissed, overlooked, or misunderstood? Maybe it's not about speaking louder. Maybe it's about leading with your human story. your lived experience, and the values that drive you.

Chief Change Officer

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Because that's what sticks. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#312 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part Two

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So far, we've talked about the underdeveloped areas and how you help bridge those gaps. But at the same time, people with strong academic background have real strengths. I believe that even weaknesses can be reframed or turned into strengths. And strengths can absolutely be maximized. From your experience, working with so many scientists and shop minds over the years,

Chief Change Officer

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What are some of the strengths they might overlook or undersell? What would you say to encourage them? Hey, you've already got this. Now lean into it, play to your advantage, and believe in yourself.

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#312 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part Two

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I totally agree. And take the example you mentioned, the woman from China who went to Johns Hopkins and Chicago. One thing that really stands out about a person like her is the cross-cultural skillset and mindset, especially in the medical field. That's huge. I actually have a friend, or rather the wife of one of my good friends from Yale MBA.

Chief Change Officer

#312 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part Two

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He spent two decades on Capitol Hill and now works with people at Harvard, MIT, and beyond to help them get their message across clearly, confidently, and without losing their voice. For this interview, I was so excited, but I also got nervous. I'm talking to someone who's worked with politicians and policymakers at the highest level.

Chief Change Officer

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She's also from China and now a practicing doctor in New York. She did her PhD in medicine at Yale. Now, learning medicine in China is already tough and different. But then switching to the US is not just about language. Think about the medical terms, the different systems, the teaching style.

Chief Change Officer

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And on top of that, she has to build relationships with professors, with colleagues, adjust to a totally different culture, and eventually practice medicine at one of the top medical centers in the country. To me, that kind of cross-cultural adaptability and agility is a real strength. especially for those who come from overseas and trade in the US.

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#312 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part Two

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It's a hidden superpower that often gets overlooked.

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#312 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part Two

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Two decades on Capitol Hill, his experience goes way beyond mine. And now here I am on the other side of the table, interviewing him. In this two-part series, we talk about the art of translating complexity, what most PhDs get wrong about persuasion, and why your audience probably tune out after the second sentence. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#312 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part Two

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Sure. I think this is the perfect way to conclude our conversation today. We've talked a lot about communication, language, and culture, skills that are more important than ever. But now we're entering the age of AI, right? With large language models, some people even say, oh, you don't need to learn another language anymore. Just type in English and it will translate for you.

Chief Change Officer

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I'm bilingual myself. I'm also learning a new language, Japanese. And honestly, sometimes I test it. For simple stuff, it works pretty well. But for more complex ideas, not quite. And even if it gets the meaning right, it's not my voice. It doesn't sound like me in Chinese. So back to PhDs and students preparing to enter the workforce.

Chief Change Officer

#311 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part One

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That's true, PhDs develop some incredibly valuable time-tested skills. One that comes to mind right away is resilience. Just think about it. To stay focused on a single topic for years, to dive deep and keep going despite setbacks. That kind of persistence isn't something you're born with. is built and is powerful.

Chief Change Officer

#311 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part One

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That said, I imagine if you are helping people with PhDs make a transition into new areas, especially outside of academia, that means there are some gaps, things they haven't been taught or haven't practiced in a professional setting. So let's start with that. What are some of the common gaps or challenges you see PhDs facing when they try to transition out of academia?

Chief Change Officer

#311 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Mark Bayer, former US Senate Chief of Staff, now a communications coach for scientists, researchers, and policy leaders.

Chief Change Officer

#311 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part One

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You've talked a lot about communication, especially writing and speaking. And one line you said before really stuck with me, which is, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but importance is in the eye of the stakeholder. That really nails it. Because your stakeholder, whether it's your boss, your CEO, your colleagues, they don't want the full backstory.

Chief Change Officer

#311 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part One

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They don't need to hear how you selected a sample of a hundred They just want to know, what does the result mean? Can we use it? How does this help us make a decision? And I guess that's something you've learned firsthand during your time as chief of staff on Capitol Hill.

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I'm so excited to host you here.

Chief Change Officer

#311 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part One

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You had to deal with journalists, policymakers, people who just wanted the information, the facts, fast, not the full breakdown. Just the takeaway they could find. So now you're bringing that hard-won skill to help people with PhDs communicate in a way that actually lands in a business setting.

Chief Change Officer

#311 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part One

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Mark, I have to confess, I'm a little nervous about today's interview. I'm talking to someone who spent years working with U.S. president, senators, and some of the biggest names in politics and policymaking.

Chief Change Officer

#311 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part One

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You've pointed out some of the under-trained skills like speaking and writing that many PhDs struggle with when they enter the private sector. How exactly do you help them bridge those gaps? Do you have a specific approach or method you use? Can you walk us through what that looks like?

Chief Change Officer

#311 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part One

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That's it for today. We've covered what PhDs often miss when it comes to persuasion and why being brilliant isn't enough if your message doesn't land. But next, we get into the how. Mark's 11 keys to translating complexity, his take on AI, and a real skill that will make your voice unforgettable Don't miss part two. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#311 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part One

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#311 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part One

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Mark, I introduced you earlier as someone with deep experience on Capitol Hill. But I'd love for you to tell us your story in your own words. What have you done in your career and life so far? What are you focused on now? And then we'll dive into today's topic, career transitions for PhD students and graduates.

Chief Change Officer

#311 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part One

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Your background is in public administration, but now your work focuses on helping PhD students, graduates, and scientists, especially those in academia, to transition into the private sector. What led you to that switch? Or to go a little deeper, What personally motivated you to focus on this group in particular?

Chief Change Officer

#311 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part One

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So you were trained in public administration, Harvard, pre-2016. And then the political climate shifted. With that, you started to notice a gap or maybe even risk in how policy outcomes were being shaped. Less data, less science, and less diverse input.

Chief Change Officer

#311 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part One

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He spent two decades on Capitol Hill and now works with people at Harvard, MIT, and beyond to help them get their message across clearly, confidently, and without losing their voice. For this interview, I was so excited, but I also got nervous. I'm talking to someone who's worked with politicians and policymakers at the highest level.

Chief Change Officer

#311 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part One

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And that led you to focus on empowering scientists and PhDs to bring their voices and expertise into spaces outside of politics so as to stay relevant and still make a meaningful impact on the society. Would you say that's a fair way to sum up your motivation?

Chief Change Officer

#311 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part One

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When you say scientists, Are you mainly working with people in medicine, engineering, or other STEM fields? Or is there a particular type of PhD holder you tend to focus on?

Chief Change Officer

#311 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part One

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Let me clarify. Only 8% of PhDs stay in academia. Are we talking across the board? Like in social science, medical science, engineering, and everything? And that means the other 92% are moving into industry or other fields. Then I become curious. Has it always been this way? Or is that 8% a more recent trend? Think about it. If we are training 100 PhDs and only eight of them stay in academia,

Chief Change Officer

#311 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part One

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That suggests a pretty big imbalance between how many people would train at that level and how few opportunities actually exist in higher education. That feels like a serious distortion in the academic versus private sector job market.

Chief Change Officer

#311 Mark Bayer: From Research to Relevance—Helping PhDs Get Heard (and Hired) — Part One

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Two decades on Capitol Hill, his experience goes way beyond mine. And now here I am on the other side of the table, interviewing him. In this two-part series, we talk about the art of translating complexity, what most PhDs get wrong about persuasion, and why your audience probably tune out after the second sentence. Let's get started. Mark, good morning. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Cecil Coutu Ferreira from Portugal, a beautiful, beautiful country I visited a few years ago to join the Web Summit in Lisbon as a guest and a speaker.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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Human capital and financial capital, of course, but both.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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You have to have both elements in order for the economy to grow, to develop. It actually is the golden rule. It actually is a timeless golden rule.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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Last question of the day. As a former media executive, what advice would you give to people who are deeply immersed in social media?

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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Thank you so much for your wise words and of course your time. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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I think we're looking at something much, much bigger than just a personal transformation. Your three-minute career story is not only your own evolution, but also a pivotal shift in the entire media and entertainment industry. From the analog world to the digital and social media age,

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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One thing I surely appreciate, and I think you'll echo this, is that working in big corporations, no matter the industry, can be an incredible training ground. The opportunities are massive with a powerful brand, lending prestige to your resume. But at the end of the day, much of what you work on isn't really your own intellectual property.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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With that in mind, and considering you moved on back then, I'm curious about your thought process behind this decision. The reason I'm asking is that many of us, as we develop our career paths, face moments that are either expected or completely out of the blue. Each decision, each transition, I believe, is a delicate balance between logic and psychology.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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The people are warm. The food is great. The sea and the sky are so blue. I surely want to go back. This episode is like a real-life version of the popular HBO TV series, Secession. I'm sure many of you watched the show. It's not just about a secession war for the top job of CEO within a super wealthy and powerful family, but also about the war in old media versus new media and tech.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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You mentioned earlier that while you are trained in science with a very logical mind, you're also very into art, into creative work, into philosophy. So back then, how did you navigate this balance when making career decisions?

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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Your experience reminds me of the movie, Jerry Maguire. Have you seen it yourself? Your work was essentially a people-first industry. Yet, oftentimes, these very people are treated more like products. And when you truly care about individuals as real humans with lives, worries, emotions, and inevitable endpoints, it changes everything.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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Once you delve into the business aspects, as well as the personal connections with these individuals you interact with daily, it creates a profound internal conflict. I think of it as a struggle between two mindsets, or the usual saying, drama is the reality, reality is the drama.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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Artists of change. Yes. Change is an art more than a science. You work in a media industry. It's always about the glamour. You travel to all those places, parties, stores.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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Yeah, the wall is right there. It's just right there.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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You've told me before that you're all in for building a legacy. After experiencing the highs and lows of the media and entertainment industry, you've gone on to build ventures and venture ecosystem in Brazil and back home in Portugal. A key highlight, I believe, has been your involvement with the Web Summit in Lisbon. While Patty Cosgrave might be the face and voice of the summit,

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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a succession from old money to new money. Since the beginning of the century, Cecil has been involved in this transformation from analog to digital media, from a DJ and TV presenter to an MTV Networks executive, working with Madonna and all the music stars. He's seen the bright and the dark sides of 21st century media and entertainment. Without further ado, let's get into the war.

Chief Change Officer

#210 César Couto Ferreira’s Next Act: From Madonna to Meaning

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You've played a crucial role at a national level, influencing the government to take a leap of faith in integrating tourism with technology. Share with us your involvement in bringing this major event to the forefront. And looking at the bigger picture, what kind of legacy are you aiming to build that makes you proud

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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Let's dive deep into Michael's journey and learn how to fight burnout for good. Welcome, Michael. Thank you for coming to my podcast.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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You have dealt with a lot of individuals, leaders, and their companies. So share with us two examples. One is a success story where your intervention led to positive changes in the individual's life and career or might be in the firm's culture. Another story would be a situation where things did not go as well as planned with your intervention. What were the key lessons you learned from them?

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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How do these not-so-good experiences have helped you shape your approach to dealing with similar situations in the future?

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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Thank you so much. My show is called Chief Change Officer because this podcast is my 18th career transition in the past 36 years. I always believe that change opens up opportunities, drives personal growth, and innovates society for good. So far, I've invited quite a number of C-level leaders to my podcast, but you are the first ever Chief Burnout Officer. Can you explain to me why this title?

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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Office politics.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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This podcast is about change. And right now, a lot of people, other than dealing with burnout situations, are facing change. In particular, career change, career transitions. Some are not happy with their current work and life. They have a strong desire to refresh their futures.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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Others are forced to change because of layoffs or in the name of corporate restructuring, cost efficiency, AI, whatever they name it. Burnout is part of this change process before, during, or even after the change. If I were one of those people in transition, with a burnout situation. I came to you. I asked for advice. So what advice would you give to me? What insights can you share with me?

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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How did you come up with this title?

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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This will be our last question for today's session. Earlier, you emphasized the importance of seeing a therapist or a coach for anyone dealing with burnout. However, from a financial standpoint, what if it's not covered by insurance? In fact, when I had my burnout situation, which was eventually developed into clinical depression situation, I did not get insurance coverage.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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So that was a huge expense for me. What if people simply don't have access to a credible, qualified therapist or consultant like yourself? In that case, could you share some common signs or warning signals that we might be overlooking in our lives and careers? What should we work out for to recognize a potential burnout situation?

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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Identifying these signs early on, I think is very crucial that we can address them in a timely, in a proper and systematic manner.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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Michael, you are spot on. I have to confess, I've been struggling with sleep issues. My partner keeps reminding me to sort it out. So I'm gradually working on adjusting my sleep schedule. Just yesterday, I was joking with someone about how we don't even use alarm clocks anymore, not since smartphones took over.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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And right here, you just advised me to ditch the phone at night and go back to an old-fashioned alarm clock instead. I'm going to take your advice to heart. Thank you so much, Michael.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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just mentioned in your life, in your career, you've experienced burnout badly. Share with us about your experience back then and how this pain got transformed into a positive force for change and eventually turned into a business today.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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We're all facing different challenges in today's world, but regardless of your age, generation, gender, cultural, and family background, there's one enemy that unites us, burnout. Believe me, I've been there once, twice, and more than twice. Today, we're joined by a fellow burnout survivor and a self-proclaimed chief burnout officer, Michael Levick, from the Breakfast Leadership Network.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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Let me tell you a quick story, something that happened just a few days ago. I was scrolling through social media, not something I do often, just killing some time. I stumbled across a post from someone I don't know. This person identified himself or herself as Gen Z. This person had written something really simple, yet profound, which is, this world is so burned out. I feel burned out.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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So I replied, equally simply, I think many of us feel burned out, especially in today's economy. And I added, by the way, I'm from Gen X. To my surprise, that comment got a lot of likes. What this made me realize is that it doesn't really matter if you are from Gen X, Y, Z, or if you are a baby boomer.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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It doesn't matter if you're American, Chinese, Japanese, European, whatever your nationality, whatever your cultural background, whatever your political views, whatever your gender. If there's one common enemy we all face today, I call it burnout. Would you agree?

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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Michael turned his personal experience into a powerful force for change, helping individuals and organizations overcome burnout and rebound stronger. We had a great conversation on his show, and now he's here to share his insights and strategies with you. Get ready for a conversation between your chief change officer and chief burnout officer.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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So before we talk more about burnout prevention, and how we can help ourselves recover faster and easier from burnout. There's a problem with this problem. Burnout as a problem carries a stigma. I believe this is cross-cultural, especially among leaders, high achieving professionals. You experienced burnout yourself more than 10 years ago before this topic has become mainstream.

Chief Change Officer

#209 Michael Levitt’s Wake-Up Call: Burned Out, Broke, and Back Again

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Now in your business, in your practice, for the sake of helping people, helping organizations, I was wondering, how did you establish the importance of addressing burnout at the C-level as well as at the operational level? Perhaps at the beginning, when you pioneered this unique role in the corporate world, what challenges did you face? How did you overcome them?

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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Yeah, like you said, it wasn't forced on you, though you were let go despite your performance. But that also opened up a chance for you to rethink, reposition, and as you mentioned, it was a friend who showed you a new door and you stepped through it. I'm curious about your choice making in that moment, your thought process. What was it like when you decided to make that shift?

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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Why did it make sense for you? Was it about certain skills you had at that time or maybe the financial prospects? Perhaps you saw a bigger trend emerging, but I know for most people, it's not just about trends. Change has to resonate personally too. So I'd love to understand more about your thought process and decision-making in that moment.

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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And instead of staying down, she jumped into technology, starting from scratch, and reinvented herself yet again. Today, in part one of our conversation, we are diving into Nina's journey, her training, her trials, and her setbacks. Then tomorrow in part two, we'll explore the tools Nina has developed over the years to help others rise above their challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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I think your reflection is really important because I've noticed a lot of people, including my friends, focus on things like money or friends when considering a career change. Right now, for example, AI is a huge trend and everyone knows is where the big money is. But jumping into it without personal alignment often feels like following the herd.

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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That's why I asked about how you identified your fit in tech. It's not just about chasing the next big thing. It's about finding a meaningful place for yourself. As you explained, your background in video, TV, and connecting with people gave you a unique edge. You didn't just leap into tech blindly.

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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You brought your skills with you and carved out a spot where your past experiences could make an impact. It was a new opportunity for both you and the company.

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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Absolutely, and I think that's a great point. For anyone listening, the takeaway here is to think outside the box when it comes to your skills and spirits. We often limit ourselves to what we have always done or the industry we know. But those same skills can often apply in ways we wouldn't initially expect.

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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In my own experience, a guest on the show, an executive recruiter, once told me I would meet a great executive recruiter myself. At first, I was surprised. Recruiting wasn't something I've ever considered. But she pointed out that my ability to support talent, connect with people, and bring the right voices onto the show demonstrated qualities that could be valuable in her industry.

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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So, just like your own story, it's about being creative and open-minded when exploring new directions. Sometimes it takes an outside perspective to see what we are really capable of.

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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Just now, Nina shared with us about her long journey, her training, her trials, and her setbacks. Tomorrow in part two, we'll explore the tools Nina has developed over the years to help others rise above their challenges. Tools like the reverse resume and successful timeline. We are not talking about your typical resume or conventional ideas of success. We are going beyond that.

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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Tools like the reverse resume and successful timeline. We are not talking about your typical resume or conventional ideas of success. We are going beyond that. So let's begin this incredible journey with Nina. Thank you so much for having me on, Vince. It's a pleasure. Nina, you've had such an interesting and meaningful journey.

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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Early on, you were a professionally trained gymnast, but eventually you had to say goodbye to that world and transition into TV and journalism. Then you pivoted again, moving into tech, and now you are a speaker, coach, and consultant. A lot of changes. In my eyes, you truly embody the role of a Chief Change Officer at heart.

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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We're going to dive into these transitions, the trends you've seen, and everything in between. But first, let's start with a quick intro. Tell us about your background and journey, and then we'll dig deeper into different aspects of your experience.

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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People often associate change with resilience because, let's be honest, You need a resilient mindset to get through a transition, to survive before you thrive. And Nina, the reason I invited you to the show is because the kind of resilience you've developed is something truly unique. Unlike most people, you were in professional sports.

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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You spent about 15 years in gymnastics in the early part of your life. And you know that any professional sport requires intense training, like a form of military training in my eyes. It demands focus, resilience, constant competition, and the ability to bounce back from failure quickly. Can you share more about your experience in gymnastics? How did you get into it?

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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Why did you choose gymnastics? And how did that experience shape your resilience? I imagine it was a crucial foundation for the resilience you've carried forward into the rest of your life.

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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I remember telling you about my first impression of gymnastics. It actually came from watching the 1984 Olympics in LA. I was just a kid living in Hong Kong, and it was summer vacation, so I was allowed to watch TV every day, which was rare during school days. I watched those morning broadcasts, which were live from LA in the afternoon, their time. I was so captivated by the US gymnastic teams.

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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Professional athletes. Today, I'm sitting down with Nina Sossaman Polk, a former professional gymnast who started her journey at about four years old and went on to join the US gymnastic team. In her own words, gymnastics is a perfect example of resilience. You literally fall down and get back up all day every day as you learn new skills.

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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They were amazing, incredible, winning all round medals. Wow, that looks intense. That looks magical. When you told me gymnastics was your day-to-day life back then, I was seriously impressed. But as you also shared, there came a point when you had to leave the sport, not because of the Olympics but for other reasons. Could you tell us more about what led you to step away from gymnastics?

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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You studied communication in college, then went into TV. So why communication? What drew you to it? And what made it compelling enough for you to turn it into a career?

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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So TV was what really sparked your interest, made you think, this is it. That's why you started your career there. Then once again, you went through another transition and eventually moved into technology. How did that come about? And by the way, how long were you in the TV industry before making that switch? And what actually triggered it?

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. These days, we talk a lot about resilience. We can discuss the psychology of it all day long. But who actually walks the walk and talks the talk when it comes to resilience?

Chief Change Officer

#158 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part One

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That mindset became part of Nina's DNA, and it carried her through some incredible twists and turns. From the heartbreak of not making the Olympic team to leaving the sport for good after an injury, she faced one identity crisis after another. But she didn't stop there. Nina built a successful journalism career that spent 17 years only to be let go despite being a beloved news anchor.

Chief Change Officer

#144 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part Two

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As I'm listening to you, I'm visualizing this noble purpose as being at the top. And then these five principles you mentioned serve as the pillars supporting and driving that purpose. If I'm understanding correctly, these principles are the foundation for everything. I'd love to learn more about each of these fundamental behaviors. Could you walk me through them?

Chief Change Officer

#144 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part Two

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When it comes to these five behaviors, generosity, resourcefulness... co-creation, action, and gratitude. I know each one could probably have an entire episode of its own with so much depth behind them, but I still love to get an overview of what they mean in the context of your methodology. How do these behaviors show up? How can we nurture and manifest them?

Chief Change Officer

#144 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part Two

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Not just for our own benefit, but also for the benefit of the team.

Chief Change Officer

#144 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part Two

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In today's episode, I sit down with two guests, Edward Vanduden and Tricia Strong, to talk about connection and collaboration. Yesterday, Edward and Tricia reflected on their own collaborative journey, which started 10 years ago at Disley. They turned a positive work relationship into a sustainable personal friendship that has now grown into a business partnership.

Chief Change Officer

#144 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part Two

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Tricia, you've quoted some important statistics about the scale of these problems. And we've gone deep into the method and solutions. But I want to shift from the macro view to a more micro view. We know these issues have economic implications. But why do we even have these problems in the first place?

Chief Change Officer

#144 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part Two

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Another way to look at it is why is collaboration in organizations so difficult to embrace and practice? Is it due to office politics, ego, inexperience, or something else? Could you highlight some of the key hurdles you see when it comes to fostering real collaboration within a team?

Chief Change Officer

#144 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part Two

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and a co-authoring collaboration on a book about collaboration. Today, part two will dive into the vision and framework for collaboration centered on a noble purpose and five key behaviors. What are these behaviors? How can we practice them? And why is collaboration so challenging today? I assure you, the method isn't just another software solution.

Chief Change Officer

#144 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part Two

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I had the privilege of getting a sneak peek at the framework of your book. You've interviewed a lot of experienced and interesting figures to gather stories and lessons. I can't wait to read it myself once it hits the market. For today's listeners, whether they're managing a team, building a startup, or even a CEO of a larger firm.

Chief Change Officer

#144 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part Two

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What are some actionable DIY do-it-yourself tips they can start implementing right after listening to this episode? Edward, you mentioned before that collaboration is a process. So what's something they can do now to kickstart that engine and move forward more collaborative outcomes? Any quick practical advice for them?

Chief Change Officer

#144 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part Two

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#144 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part Two

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It's far more human-centered than what we're used to seeing. Let's start collaborating. Before we dive into the five principles in your book and the noble purpose behind it, I want to ask, why does this book matter? On the flip side, what is the problem you're trying to solve with the book? From what you've shared with me so far, you believe collaboration

Chief Change Officer

#144 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part Two

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is the solution to many of the biggest workplace challenges so if collaboration is the key that means there are a lot of issues in the workplace today what are those problems

Chief Change Officer

#144 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part Two

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Keep up with business connections and personal relationships because you never know when that connection or person could become your collaborator, business partner, or referral to a great opportunity. That's how I landed five job offers within three months after leaving a role that led to mental depression years ago. Today, though, it's so easy to burn and build bridges.

Chief Change Officer

#144 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part Two

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So that's why the name of the book is Collaborate to Compete. Collaborate Internally. to compete successfully, eternally, right?

Chief Change Officer

#144 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part Two

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So tell me more about this noble purpose. How do you define it?

Chief Change Officer

#144 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part Two

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You can add a friend in quotation in one second. and just as easily delete them. This user-friendly, in quotation, UI UX experience has seeped into our modern mindset, making it effortless to kick people out of our own circles or lives. But without sustainable connections, How can we collaborate, build stronger teams, and create outcomes that benefit everyone?

Chief Change Officer

#144 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Don't burn bridges.

Chief Change Officer

#379 Alison Stewart: Building a Life Concierge Startup From Scratch—Part Two

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Losing the built-in support systems and having to figure out how to DIY do-it-yourself everything requires a different approach. And it's not a simple shift to make. Back to you, Allison. Have you experienced this yourself? Maybe at the start of your venture journey? And if so, how did you adjust to that shift from everything taken care of to everything you have to take care of?

Chief Change Officer

#379 Alison Stewart: Building a Life Concierge Startup From Scratch—Part Two

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Yesterday, we looked into the personal changes Alison has experienced, her motivations, the steps she took, and her LinkedIn story of connecting with the current co-founder. Today, We'll talk about this new venture, Overalls, which is making waves in the employee benefits space. They are building a network of live co-CH, including stay-at-home parents, the underemployed, and retirees.

Chief Change Officer

#379 Alison Stewart: Building a Life Concierge Startup From Scratch—Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Are you thinking about stepping away from corporate America? Or maybe you've already left. You are still trying to figure things out. If so, this episode is just for you.

Chief Change Officer

#379 Alison Stewart: Building a Life Concierge Startup From Scratch—Part Two

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You're building a venture that has the potential to create transformative change for others in the workforce. Let's dive into your current project. Overalls. What is the mission behind overalls? What specific problems are you tackling? And whose challenges are you aiming to resolve? You've told me before

Chief Change Officer

#379 Alison Stewart: Building a Life Concierge Startup From Scratch—Part Two

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about bridging the needs of employers with a valuable untapped talent pool that includes stay-at-home moms. Could you walk us through how Overalls is creating this connection and the potential impact it holds for both employers and individuals looking to reenter or redefine their roles in the workforce?

Chief Change Officer

#379 Alison Stewart: Building a Life Concierge Startup From Scratch—Part Two

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and linking them with employers to help reduce the day-to-day stress on employees. Will this model make employees feel more loyal, more willing to return to the office? We don't know yet, but it's definitely an idea worth building and exploring. Let's get started. A few weeks ago, I released an episode with an executive coach.

Chief Change Officer

#379 Alison Stewart: Building a Life Concierge Startup From Scratch—Part Two

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So let's say I'm an employer running a firm with a team. that's juggling a lot of personal obligations and responsibilities along with their work. I come to you and you say, hey, we have a network of live experts. We call them live concierge who can take care of these things for your team.

Chief Change Officer

#379 Alison Stewart: Building a Life Concierge Startup From Scratch—Part Two

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By paying a fee, I'm able to offload some of these personal burdens from my staff, helping them stay focused, less distracted, and feel more supported at work. And because this is a benefit we as the employer provide, hopefully it fosters a greater sense of loyalty. Is that the core of the value prepositioned or am I missing anything here?

Chief Change Officer

#379 Alison Stewart: Building a Life Concierge Startup From Scratch—Part Two

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To wrap up our conversation, which I've really enjoyed, I see you as what I would call a change progressive. Not just someone who embraces change, but someone who moves beyond their conventional framework and stretches beyond their comfort zone. That's the mindset I want to cultivate in my listeners too. I consider myself a change progressive as well.

Chief Change Officer

#379 Alison Stewart: Building a Life Concierge Startup From Scratch—Part Two

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It's about recognizing that our limits aren't really limits, but points we can push past to grow and improve. So to close, what advice would you give to people who are like you, either considering or in the middle of a transition from a stable, traditional environment to something new such as adventure, a solo path, or another big change?

Chief Change Officer

#379 Alison Stewart: Building a Life Concierge Startup From Scratch—Part Two

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How can they better prepare themselves to succeed in this kind of transformative journey?

Chief Change Officer

#379 Alison Stewart: Building a Life Concierge Startup From Scratch—Part Two

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Absolutely. Being kind to ourselves is part of the process. Change doesn't happen overnight. and even if things don't fall into place right away, that doesn't mean they won't. I've learned the hard way too, being too tough on myself. Sometimes the best thing we can do is just be patient and allow things to unfold. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#379 Alison Stewart: Building a Life Concierge Startup From Scratch—Part Two

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We covered a lot and one of the things she shared was how some of her clients set up with the jobs, decided to move on. But then in a lot of cases, they ended up just trading one toxic boss for another. So clearly it wasn't the best move. Therefore, it highlights the importance of making career transitions thoughtfully and mindfully.

Chief Change Officer

#379 Alison Stewart: Building a Life Concierge Startup From Scratch—Part Two

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You've also shared an interesting backstory with me about how you ended up at Overalls and how you connected with the co-founder through LinkedIn. These days, many people use LinkedIn for job searching but there's a lot of skepticism around job postings. Some of them are fake and networking can still hit or miss. But your experience was a real LinkedIn success story.

Chief Change Officer

#379 Alison Stewart: Building a Life Concierge Startup From Scratch—Part Two

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Can you walk us through what happened then and how you used the platform to make a genuine connection

Chief Change Officer

#379 Alison Stewart: Building a Life Concierge Startup From Scratch—Part Two

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That's really encouraging to hear, though I completely agree. A lot of messages on LinkedIn go unanswered. And honestly, I don't respond to every message myself because you can usually tell when it's just a generic mass marketing message. But yes, luck, in quotation, is often what we call it when something just clicks in an almost magical way.

Chief Change Officer

#379 Alison Stewart: Building a Life Concierge Startup From Scratch—Part Two

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However, I would argue it's also about doing the proper work, figuring out what you really want, what aligns with your values, your interests, what doesn't. and being thoughtful about where you put your energy, rather than just casting a wide net. I'm curious, after you landed the role, what expectations did you have? Were you confident about the move? Or did you have a mix of feeling?

Chief Change Officer

#379 Alison Stewart: Building a Life Concierge Startup From Scratch—Part Two

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Today, I'm sitting down with Alison Stewart, who made the big shift from the stability of corporate life, in particular, over 10 years in finance and insurance, to the chaotic world of startups. Her new venture focuses on re-imagining employee benefits and experiences, as she made this leap right in the middle of COVID. This is actually part two of our two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

#379 Alison Stewart: Building a Life Concierge Startup From Scratch—Part Two

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And now, after three years, Have those initial expectations been met or maybe even exceeded Did things turn out differently than you originally anticipated?

Chief Change Officer

#379 Alison Stewart: Building a Life Concierge Startup From Scratch—Part Two

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You bring up such a valid point, especially for those with a deep corporate background transitioning into the venture world. I remember going through a similar experience myself, changing from a world where everything is already structured and taken care of to one where suddenly you have to take care of everything.

Chief Change Officer

#379 Alison Stewart: Building a Life Concierge Startup From Scratch—Part Two

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In a big corporation, you focus on your specific role, whether it's creating a product, designing a strategy plan, or leading a team, and the brand, sales, and marketing machinery are already setting up, and the brand, sales, and marketing machine are already set up and running. All the support systems are in place. Don't have to worry about things like booking a travel or securing deals.

Chief Change Officer

#379 Alison Stewart: Building a Life Concierge Startup From Scratch—Part Two

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It's all handled by specialized teams. But when you are in a venture, even if you are the CEO of a well-funded startup, you are rolling up your sleeves and getting hands-on with almost every part of the operation. This change isn't just about the practical changes or even financial adjustments. Like a pay cut is a complete shift in mindset.

Chief Change Officer

#378 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn DM That Launched a Startup—Part One

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We covered a lot, and one of the things she shared was how some of her clients set up with the jobs, decided to move on, but then in a lot of cases, they ended up just trading one toxic boss for another. So clearly, it wasn't the best move. Therefore, it highlights the importance of making career transitions thoughtfully and mindfully.

Chief Change Officer

#378 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn DM That Launched a Startup—Part One

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Today, we're diving into the personal changes Allison has experienced, her motivations, the steps she took, and her LinkedIn story of connecting with her current co-founder. Tomorrow, we'll talk about the new venture called Overalls, which is making waves in the employee benefits space.

Chief Change Officer

#378 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn DM That Launched a Startup—Part One

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You've also shared an interesting backstory with me about how you ended up at Overalls and how you connected with the co-founder through LinkedIn. Now these days, many people use LinkedIn for job searching, But there's a lot of skepticism around job postings. Some of them are fake. And networking can still hit or miss. But your experience was a real LinkedIn success story.

Chief Change Officer

#378 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn DM That Launched a Startup—Part One

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Can you walk us through what happened then and how you used the platform to make a genuine connection?

Chief Change Officer

#378 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn DM That Launched a Startup—Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Are you thinking about stepping away from corporate America? Or maybe you've already left. You are still trying to figure things out. If so, this episode is just for you.

Chief Change Officer

#378 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn DM That Launched a Startup—Part One

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So what happened with the LinkedIn story? Well, we'll wrap it up tomorrow in part two. We'll also dive into Allison's current venture, Overalls, which is shaking things up in the employee benefit space. They're building a network of live concierge, people like stay-at-home parents, the underemployed, and retirees. and connecting them with employers to help ease the everyday stresses on employees.

Chief Change Officer

#378 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn DM That Launched a Startup—Part One

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Will this model inspired more loyalty or maybe even a willingness to return to the office? We don't know for sure yet, but there's certainly an idea worth building and exploring. See you tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media.

Chief Change Officer

#378 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn DM That Launched a Startup—Part One

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I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#378 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn DM That Launched a Startup—Part One

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They're building a network of live concierge, including stay-at-home parents, the underemployed, and the retirees. and linking them with employers to help reduce the day-to-day stress on employees. Will this model make employees feel more loyal, more willing to return to the office? We don't know yet, but it's definitely an idea worth exploring and building. Let's dive in.

Chief Change Officer

#378 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn DM That Launched a Startup—Part One

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Alison works in the employer-employee space. Before we look into that, though, let's get to know her a bit better. Alison, tell us about your career journey, your evolution, and the transformations along the way. Then we'll explore different elements of what has brought you here.

Chief Change Officer

#378 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn DM That Launched a Startup—Part One

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Earlier, you mentioned you actually enjoy change. We talked about growth, about risk. And I find it interesting because the show is called Chief Change Officer, where we dive into change from all angles, organizational, personal, and beyond. But when you say you enjoy change, let's be real, most of us enjoy change when we own it. when we are in control.

Chief Change Officer

#378 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn DM That Launched a Startup—Part One

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So tell me, what is it about change that resonates with you personally? I remember you once told me that growing up, you experienced quite a bit of change. Would you say those early experiences prepared you for all the transitions you've navigated as an adult?

Chief Change Officer

#378 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn DM That Launched a Startup—Part One

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It sounds like your childhood set the stage. You got used to going with the flow, adapting to new places and people, and it seems you even enjoyed it. But then, as you grew up, you took a more stable path. You went to business school, joined well-established companies like Wells Fargo, Liberty Mutual, and Lincoln Financial. You could have stayed on this secure track.

Chief Change Officer

#378 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn DM That Launched a Startup—Part One

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Today, I'm sitting down with Alison Stewart, who made the big shift from the stability of corporate life, specifically over 10 years in finance and insurance, to the chaotic world of new ventures. Her new baby focuses on redefining employee benefits and experiences. And she made this leap right in the middle of COVID. This is actually part one of a two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

#378 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn DM That Launched a Startup—Part One

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In fact, you did stay in the financial industry for about 10 years. But then you made a big change. during the once-in-a-lifetime global health crisis right around 2020. So what happened then? What was it about the environment or the timing that either pushed or pulled you towards making that change?

Chief Change Officer

#378 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn DM That Launched a Startup—Part One

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So from what I'm hearing, you had a bit of a safety net. Your husband's full-time job gave you the financial cushion to take some time off, which allowed you that space to figure things out. You were able to reflect on who you are, what you're good at, and whether you wanted to keep doing what you know or challenge yourself with something entirely new.

Chief Change Officer

#378 Alison Stewart: The LinkedIn DM That Launched a Startup—Part One

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At the same time, you were exploring the market, looking at different opportunities to understand where you could take a risk, but still manage it in a way that felt comfortable and aligned with your goals. Does that sound right?

Chief Change Officer

#71 US Gymnast Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Rising Above an Identity Crisis – Part Two

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I can see why the legal mindset resonates with you and me. It's such a perfect metaphor for building a life, a career, even a podcast that's uniquely mine. You're not just piecing together blocks. You're creating something with purpose, using elements that feel authentic to you.

Chief Change Officer

#71 US Gymnast Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Rising Above an Identity Crisis – Part Two

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Just like how each brick contributes to a structure, every experience, every skill, every choice you make adds to your bigger picture. And just like a true master builder, you are following your own playbook assembling a vision that's completely your own. Nina, I love how you've tied together all these elements, the successful timeline, the legal mindset, and the reverse resume.

Chief Change Officer

#71 US Gymnast Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Rising Above an Identity Crisis – Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. These days, we talk a lot about resilience. We can discuss the psychology of it all day long. But who actually walks the walk and talks the talk when it comes to resilience?

Chief Change Officer

#71 US Gymnast Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Rising Above an Identity Crisis – Part Two

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For anyone listening, whether you're facing a career transition, feeling stuck, and simply preparing for change, These tools can really help you navigate that journey. Thank you so much, Lena. Thank you for sharing your story and your wisdom.

Chief Change Officer

#71 US Gymnast Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Rising Above an Identity Crisis – Part Two

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you

Chief Change Officer

#71 US Gymnast Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Rising Above an Identity Crisis – Part Two

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And instead of staying down, she jumped into technology, starting from scratch, and reinvented herself yet again. Yesterday, in part one of our conversation, we explored Nina's journey, her training, her tryouts, and her setbacks. Then today in part two, we'll explore the tools Nina has developed over the years to help others rise above their challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#71 US Gymnast Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Rising Above an Identity Crisis – Part Two

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Tools like the reverse resume and successful timeline. We are not talking about your typical resume or conventional ideas of success. We are going beyond that. So let's begin this incredible journey with Nina. Absolutely. And I think that's a great point. For anyone listening, the takeaway here is to think outside the box when it comes to your skills and spirits.

Chief Change Officer

#71 US Gymnast Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Rising Above an Identity Crisis – Part Two

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We often limit ourselves to what we have always done or the industry we know. But those same skills can often apply in ways we wouldn't initially expect. In my own experience, a guest on the show, an executive recruiter, once told me I would meet a great executive recruiter myself. At first, I was surprised. Recruiting wasn't something I've ever considered.

Chief Change Officer

#71 US Gymnast Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Rising Above an Identity Crisis – Part Two

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But she pointed out that my ability to support talent, connect with people, and bring the right voices onto the show demonstrated qualities that could be valuable in her industry. So, just like your own story, it's about being creative and open-minded when exploring new directions. Sometimes it takes an outside perspective to see what we are really capable of.

Chief Change Officer

#71 US Gymnast Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Rising Above an Identity Crisis – Part Two

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So you've moved into technology, built a new version of yourself, and now you're out there as a solo entrepreneur, as an author, as a speaker. It's amazing to see how your career has evolved. As we're talking about transitions and career paths, resumes often come up. Traditionally, resume is seen as an advertisement, a highlight reel of achievements.

Chief Change Officer

#71 US Gymnast Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Rising Above an Identity Crisis – Part Two

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But you introduced me to the concept of a reverse resume. Could you walk us through what that is and how it might help those who are considering a change or currently navigating a transition? I think it could be a powerful tool to help open up minds and see new possibilities.

Chief Change Officer

#71 US Gymnast Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Rising Above an Identity Crisis – Part Two

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Professional athletes. Today, I'm sitting down with Nina Sossaman Polk, a former professional gymnast, who started her journey at about four years old and went on to join the US gymnastic team. In her own words, gymnastics is a perfect example of resilience. You literally fall down and get back up all day, every day, as you learn new skills. That mindset became part of Nina's DNA.

Chief Change Officer

#71 US Gymnast Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Rising Above an Identity Crisis – Part Two

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Yes, this isn't just a single page. It's more like a notebook, something dynamic that we keep updating. It can serve us as a reminder, especially in those moments when we are feeling down, discouraged, or unsure. As entrepreneurs, there's always something happening, some challenge or setback. But when you can look back at your progress, it's a powerful reminder that you've overcome so much.

Chief Change Officer

#71 US Gymnast Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Rising Above an Identity Crisis – Part Two

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It's just another bump in the road, not a showstopper. Just keep moving forward. Don't let it derail you.

Chief Change Officer

#71 US Gymnast Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Rising Above an Identity Crisis – Part Two

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Exactly. It's like you said, a mix of all your past achievements and challenges, marking different points in time, But the other side is blank, representing the future, open for you to shape. It's all about how you want to connect those dots and create your path forward.

Chief Change Officer

#71 US Gymnast Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Rising Above an Identity Crisis – Part Two

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Is that the successful timeline you mentioned to me before?

Chief Change Officer

#71 US Gymnast Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Rising Above an Identity Crisis – Part Two

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Yes, exactly. That's the successful timeline. is a way to look at your life journey as a series of pivotal moments

Chief Change Officer

#71 US Gymnast Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Rising Above an Identity Crisis – Part Two

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So each of us has to define our own successful timeline

Chief Change Officer

#71 US Gymnast Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Rising Above an Identity Crisis – Part Two

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and it carried her through some incredible twists and turns. From the heartbreak of not making the Olympic team to leaving the sport for good after an injury, she faced one identity crisis after another. But she didn't stop there. Nina built a successful journalism career that spent 17 years only to be let go, despite being a beloved news anchor.

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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But pause here to educate us on the potential advantages of psychedelics, especially when approached responsibly. We'll discuss microdosing and its potential to benefit a wide range of people, not only those dealing with mental or medical conditions. As the host of the show, I'm not here to judge my guests.

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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I know you've written a book on microdosing. If I understand correctly, please clarify if needed. Over a course of, say, 30 or 45 days, I take a very small dose, about one-tenth of a standard dose, which offers certain benefits, as you described. But would you say it works more like a band-aid?

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, We are diving into a topic that's sparking both excitement and debate, psychedelics.

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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For example, during those 30 or 45 days, I might feel better, but after stopping, could those effects wear off? It's similar to taking painkiller. I may not feel the pain for a while, but the underlying issue might still be there. So is microdosing more of a short-term fix? And if so, how can we make its benefits more sustainable, ideally without any physiological or psychological risks?

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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I offer a forum for diverse voices to share their ideas, thoughts, and approaches aimed at advancing humanity in a positive direction. I ask questions from different perspectives allowing you, our listeners, to draw your own conclusions from these conversations.

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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Would it be fair to say that micro-dosing serves as a key? It unlocks potential solutions that might help us get unstuck when we feel trapped, like being locked in a room. From what I understand, Microdosing could help us first get out of that mental room, and while it might not immediately review the path forward, it offers a clearer space to start making those decisions.

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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Whether that means ending a toxic relationship, finding a new job, or even breathtaking career direction. Essentially, it seems like a powerful tool for gaining clarity and reclaiming a sense of control to move forward in a way that makes sense to us. Would you say that's a fair summary?

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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Here, I'll ask Paul to walk us through some of the common misunderstandings about microdosing and share insights into the ongoing legal and medical debates surrounding psychedelics. We'll also explore some essential safety considerations and responsible practices for those curious about this tool for personal development and leadership growth. Let's get started. Paul, good afternoon.

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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As you've explained, there's potential for micro-dosing to benefit a wide range of people, not just those with mental or medical conditions. But then, it's still illegal in many places. and there's ongoing legal and medical debate around it. Could you walk us through some of the common misunderstandings people still have about microdosing?

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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And maybe share more about the legal and medical side of the conversation. What are the main concerns? And where do you see the biggest barriers to a border acceptance?

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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So you've mentioned a couple of great starting points. Start low and go slow is essential, especially for beginners who might feel uncertain given the controversies, legal risks, and potential side effects. If those convinced by the potential benefits but cautious about legality Going to states or countries where psychedelics are legal is another way to explore responsibly.

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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To wrap up our conversation, Paul, could you share more on some essential safety considerations and responsible practices we should keep in mind? What steps can help us approach this new tool for personal development and leadership growth with care and respect?

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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Welcome to my show. Thank you for joining us.

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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Thank you. Yes, I'm still finishing my breakfast. But I wouldn't miss this interview for anything. Today, we are diving into a topic that is still pretty controversial, not just here in the US, but worldwide. It's one that comes with its own set of benefits and risks. Paul has been in this space long enough to call himself an expert. So I'm excited to get his insights.

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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But first thing first, Paul, can you tell us a bit about yourself? What have you done in the past? And how has those experiences shaped who you are and what you do today?

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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My guest is Paul Austin, founder and CEO of Third Wave, a leading voice advocating for the responsible use of psychedelics, especially within the realms of personal and leadership development. Let me make this clear. While there's growing support for the benefits, psychedelics remained illegal in many places, and there's still much debate around the safety, legality, and medical impact.

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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From your perspective, you're educating the world on the benefits and potential advantages of using psychedelics responsibly for personal well-being and even for the benefit of teams and communities. So first, can you share how you incorporate psychedelics in your practice and what benefits you've observed? On the flip side, what are some limitations and potential risks?

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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Help us understand more about the opportunities and the challenges. What should people be cautious about?

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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Paul, you mentioned there are at least two types of people who can benefit from psychedelics. Those dealing with medical or mental health challenges, like PTSD, and then another group, creative leaders, entrepreneurs, and others whose roles demand a high level of focused mental power. Can you dive a bit deeper into these applications, especially for regular people in high-performance roles?

Chief Change Officer

#238 Paul Austin on Rethinking Growth: Can Psychedelics Unlock Your Potential—Legally?

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Perhaps you could share a few stories or examples? no names needed of course, to help us understand how psychedelics can work in this context. I'd love to hear more about how your approach compares and what it offers for those looking to enhance focus and creativity.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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I'd love to hear about the other side of things too. We just discussed a more successful case. But I'm also curious about the challenges you faced in helping people through this journey. Stories where things didn't go as planned. Maybe there's a single story that stands out. or maybe it's a pattern across different experiences.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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Whether it's due to a client's own psychology, some part of their past serving as a barrier to change, or something else entirely I'll be interested to know why, even with all the interventions, guidance and effort, things sometimes just don't click. Any insights you can share from these not-so-successful transformations would be valuable.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. So, you're thinking of quitting your job? Trust me, I've been there many times in my corporate life. You've hit a roadblock.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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In today's episode, Darcy and I dive into why staying might be the best move and how you can bounce back from a low point. We are all Incredibles with the superpowers to save ourselves. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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That's a powerful story. Reflecting on my own experience and those of friends, colleagues, and younger professionals I've met, there's one major barrier that often stands out when it comes to navigating career transitions or even finding ways to stay engaged and resilient in the same role without burning out. And that's fear. You explore this in your book and I would like to discuss it further.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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Fear is such a powerful force. It can hold us back or if managed well, propel us forward. Could you share more on how this fear factor works in career transitions and how we can learn to manage it better? I can think of so many ways fear plays out. From fear of failure to fear of the unknown.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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Great, I'll definitely try some of your strategies. To wrap up though, there's so many things we can do from reading books and getting professional help to learning from others. If you had to give us just a couple of pieces of advice that we can start working, that we can start trying right now, what would those be?

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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Absolutely. Getting clarity on the situation before jumping to solutions is key. It's always about understanding the problem deeply before trying to solve it. So often, we think we've identified the issue and rush to fix it, only to find the solution doesn't really fit. because we misjudged the situation from the start.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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Focusing on the core of the problem, giving yourself space to analyze and allowing for clarity before taking action or seeking help. can make all the difference.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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Many coaches out there say, I help leaders with this and that. But I'm curious, in your practice, which specific groups of leaders are you working with? What particular qualities or types of people do you focus on helping and empowering you?

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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Your book is called Red Cape Rescue. The first question that came to my mind was why Red Cape? What is the meaning behind this title?

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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Each morning, you're dragging yourself out of bed, dreading the day ahead. The office vibe feels off. Politics and gossip are draining, and deadlines seem endless. Walking away feels like the only way out, whether quietly or loudly. But our guest today, Darcy Eichenberg,

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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So we are all our own superheroes, right? Batman, Spiderman, Superman, the Incredibles. We each have that hero inside us. And as I read your book, I notice you lay it out in three distinct parts. Reset how you think. Revise what you say. and reinvent what you do. Could you give us an overview of these three stages of transformation? Reset, revise, and reinvent.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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I think it would be really helpful for listeners, whether they are senior, junior, or mid-level, who might feel a bit stuck. A breakdown of this process might give them some inspiration and even help them find a way forward.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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we can make active choices of those in the same way that you chose what you the shirt you put on today the first section reset really resonates with me knowing yourself understanding yourself that self-awareness you emphasize is powerful once we graduate from college We are basically on our own with no career center or clear path to guide us. Yet, we have 30, 40, even 50 years of work life ahead.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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And even when career centers are available in college or business school, the scope is often narrowed, leaving us without realistic guidance on figuring ourselves out and charting our own course. So this self-awareness, this self-empowerment that you talk about and reset how you think really feels essential.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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From your experience working with seasoned leaders and helping them figure out who they are and where they're going, Could you share a few examples? Maybe one success story and one more challenging case. Just to give us some insights into the process, the lessons learned, and what navigating those challenges can look like. Story time.

Chief Change Officer

#237 Stuck in Career Purgatory? Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Work Woes into Wins

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Author of the book titled, Red Cape Rescue, Save Your Career Without Leaving Your Job, says, you don't have to quit to save your career, but how? I know what it's like to feel stuck. Back then, I wished for someone who could help me find a way out. When reading Darcy's book, I kept thinking, I wish I would have this when I needed it. But you don't have to wait.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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Maybe one day you could go down a similar path, turning no one cares about your career into something more, perhaps a teaching platform or a series of courses to help people navigate the modern workplace. What do you think about taking that approach?

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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In fact, she's gathered so many lessons along the way that she decided to write her first book titled, No One Cares About Your Career. When I saw that title, I knew I had to develop a two-part series featuring Erica. Why does this title hit so hard? Because it's the truth. I've learned it the hard way myself, through the twists and turns of my own career.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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So I started skimming through the first few chapters of your book. As you mentioned, it has a more conversational tone, but it's also packed with real life stories. Tell us more about how your book stands out from other business or career-oriented books.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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in the early part of the book i noticed you actually list out who would be the readers for this book you lay out all the criteria And as I read through them, I thought, oh, I fit this, I fit that. So I know this book is for me. I check off, if not all, at least 9 out of 10 of those points. Then you also make clear who the book is not for with a list of about 20 things.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's episode is a special one for me. I'm joined by none other than Erica Ayers-Bodden, the current CEO of Food52, a leading innovator in the food, cooking, and home space.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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I was relieved because I wasn't any of those. But I would say for sure this book is for people who desire a change at work and understand that change at work is a gateway to changing their life. That's actually the first criterion you list. That's exactly right. For those who like to follow rules and are comfortable following rules, this book is not for you, unfortunately.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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Inside, there are a lot, a lot of different stories, and one specific story stands out to me is about your interview with a few major decision makers when you were trying to get a job the ceo job at barstool i found it very very interesting and i'm mostly honest I can definitely relate to your point about how this book is different from others because you tell the truth about what happened.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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At that time, you mentioned you were not sure about the interview's outcome and even thought you did not do well. Then one of those decision makers you spoke with said, I think we could give it a try, although I'm not sure if you can do it. It's so raw and unfiltered. That's what I appreciate. This is why I'm really enjoying the book and I plan to finish it soon.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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I'm excited that Erica has captured this reality so perfectly, and I'm grateful she is saying it out loud, helping others who feel stuck in their careers confront the truth and break free from the baggage holding them back. In this episode, we'll dive into the book why she wrote it, why now, and why this title.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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There are surely a lot of nuggets of wisdom in the book. And one that stands out to me is when you highlight five simple things for anyone to succeed at work. Who you are, what you have to offer, how you show up, what you do with your time, and how much you care. Five core things. Erica, could you briefly walk us through why you chose these five?

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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After so many years of working across different industry, in different countries and eventually landing leadership roles and become a CEO who turned a company around. How did you distill all those learnings into these five simple points? And how can we as individuals apply them to move forward in our own careers?

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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I found that in my life and in the lives of many successful people I know, Their career decisions, how they present themselves, and what they care about often link back to their past. Whether it's their family upbringing, early experiences, or even the history of their parents or grandparents, these become powerful force that shape who they become.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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Could you share a bit more about your younger years? Maybe something from your family and life or childhood that nurtured your business instincts despite not going to business school? Was this something from your past that helped shape the person you are today? Motivated, ambitious, successful, yet always true to yourself?

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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Plus, we'll unpack some key nuggets of wisdom, including five simple things anyone can do to succeed at work. In the next episode, Erica will open up about her life and career experiences, her upbringing, her parents, her leadership approach, and even her thoughts on toxic work cultures. And here's something you won't hear in other interviews.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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In the next episode, Erica will open up about her life and career experiences. her upbringing, her parents, her leadership approach, and even her thoughts on toxic work cultures. And here's something you won't hear in other interviews. What career advice would she give her own two children who are in middle school, especially in this rapidly changing workplace?

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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What career advice would Erica give her own two middle school children, given we are in such a rapidly changing workplace? That's our in-depth look at Erika Ayers Baden. Let's dive right in. Welcome, Erika. Thanks for being here. Thank you, Vince. I'm excited to be here. Erika, let's start with a bit of your career history.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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So initially, you planned to go to law school, or perhaps it was more of an expectation from your parents. But in the end, you chose a different path. What led you to that decision?

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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Now it's time to dive into your book. I have to confess to the audience. When Erica and her team reached out to me about doing this interview, I immediately said yes, like no hesitation at all. Why? What drew me in so quickly was the title of the book, which is No One Cares About Your Career. This is punchy title.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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and given Erica's expertise in marketing, I'm not surprised she came up with something so catchy. But it's not just about the phrase. It's about those five words. They resonate with me 100%. Seriously, I learned this truth a hard way in my own journey. is one of life's realities. And once I understood it, I accepted it, and even embraced it.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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Erica, if you and I were in a studio together right now, I would give you a hug or at least a solid high five for speaking my mind so perfectly. Take a hug, Vince. Thank you. Thank you. One day when I come to the States and interview you in person, let's do that. Anyway, back to the book title. I'm curious, how did you come up with No One Cares About Your Career as the title?

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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Was it something you had in mind from the start of your writing process? Or did it come up later, maybe as a result of collaboration with your publisher or editor?

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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Before her time at Food52, Erica was the first-ever CEO of Barstool Sports, and her career spans across media, marketing, and tech, with roles at companies like Fidelity Investments, Microsoft, AOL, and Yahoo. But let me be clear, this isn't about interviewing someone with big titles. On my show, I bring on guests who are willing to share real life stories. And Erica has no shortage of those.

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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With the pandemic, everyone was stuck at home and you used a podcast to keep your team engaged instead of just sending long emails. It helped keep everyone active and connected Soon, more people outside your firm started paying attention, sending in career-related questions, which you began answering. Eventually, it led you to think, why not put all of this into a book?

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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A way to reach a wider audience and share your experiences and thoughts more broadly. Does that sound like a fair summary of your journey?

Chief Change Officer

#182 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part One

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Maybe one day you could become like Ray Dalio, one of the billionaire investors in the U.S., After retiring, he's turned his life's work and lessons into a 600-page book called Principles. I'm sure you've heard of it. He even collaborated with professors to develop courses around content.

Chief Change Officer

#105 Growing Beyond Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long: Escaping Toxic Cultures That Linger - Part Two

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Sure. I think that often when people get together to have conversations about business or whatever it is that they're accountable for within a business, they talk about the goal that's passed. The things that seem very concrete and hard and in a plan. And then when one person believes that one thing is true and another believes the other is true, they just start talking at each other.

Chief Change Officer

#105 Growing Beyond Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long: Escaping Toxic Cultures That Linger - Part Two

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Instead of stepping back to say, wait a minute, it seemed like... We're in conflict here. How many times have people done that in the business environment? Pretty rare. To step back and say, it seems that we're in conflict with each other. Let's step back. Let's put ourselves in one another's shoes. Let's ask some more questions. Let's make sure we understand the situation.

Chief Change Officer

#105 Growing Beyond Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long: Escaping Toxic Cultures That Linger - Part Two

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And I've had a number of early clients say, oh, I don't have time to do that. How much time are you wasting now on the political battles? Because you didn't step back and try to put yourself in the shoes of all of these other people and understand where they're coming from. Check to make sure you actually understand where they're coming from and what's driving them.

Chief Change Officer

#105 Growing Beyond Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long: Escaping Toxic Cultures That Linger - Part Two

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Because you're probably making some false assumptions about what that is. I can just about guarantee it. Are you stepping back to list the areas where you're in agreement? No. Probably not. Most people don't. As you start to work through these things, differing dialing is another one. Oh my gosh. I've had teams that were leadership teams.

Chief Change Officer

#105 Growing Beyond Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long: Escaping Toxic Cultures That Linger - Part Two

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See, you said we're just starting to backbite one another and get into a little bit of gamesmanship. And when we analyze the different styles on the team and we were able to step back objectively and look at that and say, can you come to some agreements with on your behaviors? Because you all have naturally different styles.

Chief Change Officer

#105 Growing Beyond Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long: Escaping Toxic Cultures That Linger - Part Two

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You're all coming in with naturally different assumptions about what it means to be on a team, what it means to communicate, what it means to commit. You all have different assumptions about what that looks like. And so stepping back to look at the style and do you have conflict that is really exacerbated by these different styles and the fact that you haven't talked about it out loud?

Chief Change Officer

#105 Growing Beyond Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long: Escaping Toxic Cultures That Linger - Part Two

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You've just frustrated one another. So start to work your way through this checklist of things. Eventually, what you come down to is the substance of what you don't agree on. And from there, then you can start to work through what that is. But it's often quite small compared to what it looks like because people are not taking the time to raise and deal with conflict.

Chief Change Officer

#105 Growing Beyond Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long: Escaping Toxic Cultures That Linger - Part Two

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It's exacerbates the politics in the situation, right? Because it feeds... That lack of trust. And where you have a lack of trust, of course, you're going to have more politics. You're going to have much more of those power battles. Where you have more trust, you're going to have less of that. Just because of human nature.

Chief Change Officer

#105 Growing Beyond Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long: Escaping Toxic Cultures That Linger - Part Two

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Yeah, you need to find the environment that is the best fit for you and for what you enjoy. I love your example of the person who said, yeah, we could probably... be a lot more effective or successful if we had left from the political animal thing. But the reality was that was what that organization was like and he saw it. And so maybe that was not the right fit.

Chief Change Officer

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But maybe for someone who enjoyed that culture, it would be a great fit and they'd be pretty happy there. I do think what you said reminded me of Advice that is actually it's not my own. It was from Martin Luther King's personal attorney, Clarence Jones. And he was part of the core group of activists who worked really closely with Dr. King.

Chief Change Officer

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And I was super fortunate to hear him speak a number of years ago. Imagine your situation now. They have figured out that their movement is never going to get what it needs if they do not get a powerful white man from the South to align and to become an advocate. And that's got to be something that was pretty painful for them to realize.

Chief Change Officer

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But the realization was there are no permanent friends and no permanent enemies, only permanent interests. So what are your interests? What are theirs? Well, in this case, they figured out that they needed a stakeholder who was a powerful white Theternet.

Chief Change Officer

#105 Growing Beyond Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long: Escaping Toxic Cultures That Linger - Part Two

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In your case, you might find that your personal interests and the personal interests of a firm that has that more intensely competitive political culture are aligned or are not aligned, right? What are your interests? What are their interests when assessing the environment that you're in and the ones you're considering?

Chief Change Officer

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Get really clear on your own interests or values that are fundamentally unchanging and core. Your deep interests, right? The deep things that are who you are, not the more superficial current interests like I need to make this much money to, I don't know, pay my mortgage.

Chief Change Officer

#105 Growing Beyond Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long: Escaping Toxic Cultures That Linger - Part Two

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The second thing he said is you will not prevail unless the powerful majority sees that what you want is also in their interests. And I do think sometimes what looks like intense politics is actually just the blind interest. The powerful majority and your interests are not. They don't go together. Right. Looking at who stands to lose.

Chief Change Officer

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If you win, if it's a whole lot of people, that's going to be a highly political environment. Right. But if you can help people. those people to not lose money, to not lose space, to not lose if you prevail.

Chief Change Officer

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If you can find a way that it could make it a win or a benefit to at least some degree for everyone involved, particularly if you're in a leadership role, that could give you a wonderful outcome where you don't have to make a dramatic change. What can you offer to these others? How can you align what you want with their interests and vice versa?

Chief Change Officer

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And I will say sometimes the best outcome involves someone getting what they want, even if they don't deserve it, if it still gives you the outcome that you want. And to use sort of your painful example, if you leave because your boss was particularly unfair to you, they might get what they want and they don't deserve it, but they get the headcount reduction that you would say they don't deserve.

Chief Change Officer

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But just try to let it go. If it gets you the outcome that you want, what you really want is to move on to somewhere else.

Chief Change Officer

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and identify you absolutely must identify the strongest ally from the powerful majority and make him or her a leader in whatever your cause is if you're going to stay because you don't want to stay and be constantly feeling like you're swimming upstream and can't win you've got to find your strongest ally and get that personal leader and what it is that you want there

Chief Change Officer

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You actually can read my summary of Parents Jones' talk on our website if you just go to selbygroup.com and you search for politics. Really, one of the most interesting and powerful speakers I've ever heard in terms of connecting that deep personal passion and desire with just that practical reality of politics.

Chief Change Officer

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Yeah, I think it's a great question because it is very much our current situation for many businesses. And I wish the answer were super simple. It's not quite as simple as I wish it were because it does depend a little bit on your situation. So... In the hybrid work model, are people going into the office to just work on their own work?

Chief Change Officer

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If so, I'm not sure you're going to get huge benefit out of that in terms of lessening politics or political alliances because they're not really interacting that much. Nor do I think you're going to get much of the benefit of obviously working on very complex problems together if you're not really there to work together.

Chief Change Officer

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The other particular challenge I'll play you in is most of the clients that we work with are distributed not throughout one metropolitan area, but across the globe. And so... Sure, if your team is largely local and you can get together fairly regularly with intention, with the purpose of working on complex problems, right? Coming to very challenging agreements together.

Chief Change Officer

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Sure, you want to do that in person. You are going to get a better result. But if your team is distributed around the globe, I would question how much significant benefit there would be to going into an office. You would all just be in different offices.

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So I think you really have to look at being incredibly purposeful for when you get together and to work on the talk when you are together and not just simply trust that. The fact that you can have a lunchtime conversation in and of itself is going to be enough. In fact, one of my clients is working on what they call more a sense of belonging or connectedness across their very global organization.

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And they're experimenting with all kinds of things to help build more of that personal trust. I'll let you know how those experiments go across time because this is a significant challenge. People who are lonely at work and don't feel connected, it's a big problem. It's a big problem in a lot of places. It causes a lot of additional problems.

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And from my point of view, it feeds notions of politics because there are people who feel connected and people who don't feel connected. And if you feel more connected, you're going to be more of an insider, right? You're going to have a more of an understanding of the political dynamic and the needs of other people.

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So I think that this is one we need to keep observing, assessing and experimenting with, Krost. It's a super new way to work when you look at how very many years people work together in person. And it's really only been the last few where the majority do not work together in person.

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Yeah. And if you notice this pattern consistently with your boss, I would say this is where you do have to really step back and navigate for yourself. Go out into the future 10 or 20 years and look back on the current situation. And ask yourself truly in your heart, what is most important here?

Chief Change Officer

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Because in that situation, maybe there's one employee who has two little kids to support and they go, what's most important is they keep my job for the kid. And so I'm just gonna, I'm gonna stay, right? Even though it means that I'm gonna have to carry some of the workload for others. And someone else might be in a situation where they're going,

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No, the most important thing is for me to go find an environment where the leadership is not threatened by me and where I can really flourish. I would never, as a coach, tell someone which of those choices is the right choice because it's whatever is the right choice for you and what you need to do, looking at your situation and looking in your heart.

Chief Change Officer

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Because if you find a consistent pattern where the boss is just simply easily threatened by the stronger performers, That is what it is, right? There is not necessarily a lot that you can do to influence that. Not in a real significant way, not from where you sit as an employee. Exactly.

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Yeah, absolutely. It's one of the reasons that I think it is so important for leaders to not just somehow think we aligned on our goals and now we just march forward because goals are pretty dynamic, right? And the different pressures that businesses are under change as markets change, as the geopolitical environment changes, you need to stay well-seeked up and well-aligned as a leadership team.

Chief Change Officer

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or you're going to be giving differing direction to the people who work for you. And then those people will find themselves at loggerheads and starting to do some infighting with one another, in part because you did not stay aligned at that higher level. And really, also, I would say of great significance, didn't learn how to raise and address conflict in a way that was healthy and effective.

Chief Change Officer

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Yeah, we could probably eliminate a good chunk of politics by just improving the ability to raise and resolve conflict in a healthy way.

Chief Change Officer

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At the end of our last conversation, we talked about something that really resonates with everybody. How some people, when making career moves... leave a toxic boss or a harmful culture or an environment that is so vested in office politics only to find themselves in a similar situation at the new job. It's like running away from one problem only to land in another.

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Do you think having a hybrid work model might actually help manage office politics? Or does it make things worse? On one hand, with less in-person interaction, people aren't constantly grouped together, which might reduce some of the tension that can build in close quarters. it creates a bit of balance. You're not always in the office, so those dynamics don't dominate your entire day.

Chief Change Officer

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But on the other hand, there's the behind-the-scenes factor. Those who want to curry favor with the boss could still do it privately in ways others might not even notice. is a different kind of politicking that could still cause issues, just less visibly. I imagine researchers are already looking into this shift and its impact on workplace dynamics.

Chief Change Officer

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What's your take on how hybrid or remote work influences office politics? Does it shift the balance? Or do you think human nature finds a way to keep the same patterns alive just in new formats?

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Just now, we explored the root causes of office politics, why some thrive while others struggle, and how leadership behaviors often shape these dynamics. Tomorrow, in our next episode, we'll continue our series on office politics.

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If you've ever wondered why the smartest or hottest working people aren't always the ones who succeed, or why the best ideas don't always win, or why politics seem unavoidable. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media.

Chief Change Officer

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that led us into a bordered discussion on toxic cultures and even the role office politics play in these dynamics. We also touched on how some leaders or managers might unknowingly struggle with their personality disorders, which can contribute to these environments. Today, we are honing in on office politics specifically. Let's be real, who hasn't faced them?

Chief Change Officer

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I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

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Whether it's subtle power struggles or outright maneuvering is something everyone has encountered. Yet, when I type office politics into Google, I don't find as much as I expected. Maybe the term isn't as trendy, but that doesn't mean the problem isn't real or common. People might call it power dynamics, workplace dynamics, but the underlying issue is universal.

Chief Change Officer

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So Jennifer, let's start with a two-part question. In your view, why do office politics exist What factors contribute to the crisis in the modern workplace?

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Today's guest is an old friend of our show, Jennifer Selby Long. Jennifer was with us in Season 3, Episode 7 and 8. In the last 30 years, Jennifer has been helping tech leaders navigate the waves of tech evolution, leading and managing organizational change. But leaders can't successfully drive organizational change without being a master of their own personal transformation.

Chief Change Officer

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Just the other week, I sat in a coffee shop. I overheard several groups dissecting what had gone wrong in their respective offices. It made me think, maybe I should bring this show to a coffee shop. Imagine all the real, raw discussions that could spark these lunch hours and coffee shop conversations. I call them unscripted, water cooler moments where the true pulse of the office comes alive.

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It's where colleagues vent their frustrations, share unfiltered truths about the team, the boss, and all the office politics in play. Now, about leaders who treat the workplace like a chessboard, where employees are nothing more than pawns, moved or discarded depending on their usefulness. It's not so much about corruption as it is about cold, calculated strategy.

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For these leaders, it's not personal, it's strictly business. They justify their actions in the name of efficiency or the bottom line. If someone quits, they see it as an opportunity to reduce head count, not a problem to solve. They don't lose sleep over being called toxic. What's more, some leaders intentionally create competitive, cutthroat environments.

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They think pitting people against each other will drive results. For employees, it often means distrust and endless office politics. That kind of culture impacts morale, collaboration, and long-term success. Jennifer says, Have you worked with clients who purposely planned the seats of office politics as part of the management strategy? As part of the management strategy?

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So last time, Jennifer and I looked into the natural process of personal change. We also talked about how to manage self-doubt and self-sabotage. Jennifer, welcome back to Chief Change Officer. You are setting a new record for us. For one guest, you are going to have four episodes under your own name. Indeed. Thank you for having me. I so appreciate it, Vin.

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Or have you advised clients who have to navigate such politically charged environments? How do you help someone survive and even thrive in a culture that is shaped so intentionally and sometimes ruthlessly by leadership?

Chief Change Officer

#104 Growing Beyond Office Politics with Jennifer Selby Long: Escaping Toxic Cultures That Linger - Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#297 Gagan Sandhu: Redefining Wealth, Reinventing Work

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm thrilled to be speaking with my Chicago MBA classmate, Gargan Sandhu.

Chief Change Officer

#297 Gagan Sandhu: Redefining Wealth, Reinventing Work

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I really appreciate that before our interview. Despite his busy schedule, Gargan made it a point to thoroughly understand the scope of my show. He asked for examples and even took the time to write down his career insights to share with me ahead of time.

Chief Change Officer

#297 Gagan Sandhu: Redefining Wealth, Reinventing Work

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When it comes to the customers you've worked with, I'm curious about something specific. What's the persona of your ideal customer?

Chief Change Officer

#297 Gagan Sandhu: Redefining Wealth, Reinventing Work

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How do you position your company? Is it mainly a software development company?

Chief Change Officer

#297 Gagan Sandhu: Redefining Wealth, Reinventing Work

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In your industry, there's a new type of stakeholder known as finfluencers, financial influencers. The younger generation often turns to them for money management advice via social media. It's easily accessible, and they seem to crave all kinds of information.

Chief Change Officer

#297 Gagan Sandhu: Redefining Wealth, Reinventing Work

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But there are growing concerns about potential conflicts of interest and the creditability of these influencers, especially since they may lack formal financial education. Given this backdrop and considering your goal to help people become more knowledgeable about managing their money, which also positively impacts their lives, What's your take on this trend?

Chief Change Officer

#297 Gagan Sandhu: Redefining Wealth, Reinventing Work

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How do you engage with these influencers, perhaps promoting a product? And how do you assist your clients in becoming better decision makers and effectively multiplying their money, as your tagline on LinkedIn suggests?

Chief Change Officer

#297 Gagan Sandhu: Redefining Wealth, Reinventing Work

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You've become financially independent and then decided to start this company to help others achieve the same. This makes me wonder, what does financial independence mean to you? I'm very eager to hear about your personal wealth philosophy. The term financial independence is heavily used online. In fact, often misused or reduced to just a buzzword.

Chief Change Officer

#297 Gagan Sandhu: Redefining Wealth, Reinventing Work

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As we near the end of our interview, I think is the perfect time to ask this question. You made a conscious decision to leave a tech company in your 40s and dive into entrepreneurship. Yet today, many people in their 30s, 40s, or even 50s are facing layoffs and feel compelled to change their career paths. They are also concerned about ageism in the workplace.

Chief Change Officer

#297 Gagan Sandhu: Redefining Wealth, Reinventing Work

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Could you share some practical advice for these folks?

Chief Change Officer

#297 Gagan Sandhu: Redefining Wealth, Reinventing Work

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Yes, it makes sense. But in recruitment, there's always a focus on cost. HR and CEOs might lean towards hiring younger individuals because they offer lower salaries, even though the older candidates might be more experienced and competent. Sometimes they come up with their own justification that younger people are simply more creative or tech-savvy. This happens quite often in tech ventures.

Chief Change Officer

#297 Gagan Sandhu: Redefining Wealth, Reinventing Work

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But I'm interested in your genuine perspective and practices. How do you interpret and apply this concept in your life?

Chief Change Officer

#297 Gagan Sandhu: Redefining Wealth, Reinventing Work

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Given that you run a tech venture as the CEO, would you consider hiring someone in their 40s? who's been pushed out of corporate life and is looking to start a new chapter by building a tech venture with you?

Chief Change Officer

#297 Gagan Sandhu: Redefining Wealth, Reinventing Work

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Gorgon. I've really enjoyed our conversation today. I know we've gone over time, but you have so much valuable insight to share. I didn't want to cut you off. I truly appreciate your time and all that you've shared with us.

Chief Change Officer

#297 Gagan Sandhu: Redefining Wealth, Reinventing Work

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#297 Gagan Sandhu: Redefining Wealth, Reinventing Work

49.401

Like many of my previous guests, Gargan is an immigrant who moved from India to the States about 20 years ago. With a mechanical engineering background, he began his journey as a grad student. About two years ago, he founded a FinTech company aimed at helping Gen Y and Z achieve financial independence.

Chief Change Officer

#297 Gagan Sandhu: Redefining Wealth, Reinventing Work

82.629

Speaking of financial independence, I've always been skeptical of it, seeing it more as a myth or a marketing buzzword. In true Chicago Bulls style, Gargant and I will be exchanging viewpoints on this topic, agreeing to disagree while appreciating and understanding our different perspectives in a sensible manner. On top of that, Gargant will share invaluable insights on managing career paths,

Chief Change Officer

#297 Gagan Sandhu: Redefining Wealth, Reinventing Work

823.971

Let me share my take on financial independence if you allow me. Interestingly, I don't actually believe in it. And my reasoning isn't about the math. It's about human nature and psychology. We humans have desires at every stage of our lives. Whether it's craving the latest iPhone when we are younger or simply needing a functional phone as we grow older, our desires shape our financial behavior.

Chief Change Officer

#297 Gagan Sandhu: Redefining Wealth, Reinventing Work

865.76

I believe as long as we have desires, we can never be truly financially independent because our decisions are influenced by our pursuit of these desires and the financial means to fulfill them. Personally, I'm not just about numbers. I consider myself a philosopher at heart. despite studying finance and accounting and spending a decade in financial institutions helping people manage money.

Chief Change Officer

#297 Gagan Sandhu: Redefining Wealth, Reinventing Work

902.577

I'm fundamentally a humanist. Life is not only short, it is unpredictable. We might plan to achieve certain things by a certain age, but there's no guarantee we'll have the time. So for me, it's about focusing on the present, like building a good show here. Yes, I need to make and spend money to sustain it.

Chief Change Officer

#297 Gagan Sandhu: Redefining Wealth, Reinventing Work

933.601

But I do stress over really long-term financial plans because the future is, after all, uncertain. To me, managing personal wealth is less about math. and more about one's life philosophy, psychology, and the ability to tune out the noise and adapt to changes around us. That's my perspective on financial independence.

Chief Change Officer

#296 Gagan Sandhu: Engineer Your Independence

110.839

I really appreciate that before our interview, despite his busy schedule, Gagan made it a point to thoroughly understand the scope of my show. He asked for examples and even took the time to write down his career insights to share with me ahead of time. So for the next 45 minutes, I guarantee you'll learn a lot from him. Let's begin, shall we?

Chief Change Officer

#296 Gagan Sandhu: Engineer Your Independence

12.91

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm thrilled to be speaking with my Chicago MBA classmate, Gargan Sandhu.

Chief Change Officer

#296 Gagan Sandhu: Engineer Your Independence

1557.965

Let me share my take on financial independence if you allow me. Interestingly, I don't actually believe in it. And my reasoning isn't about the math. It's about human nature and psychology. We humans have desires at every stage of our lives. Whether it's craving the latest iPhone when we are younger, or simply needing a functional phone as we grow older, our desires shape our financial behavior.

Chief Change Officer

#296 Gagan Sandhu: Engineer Your Independence

1599.719

I believe as long as we have desires, we can never be truly financially independent because our decisions are influenced by our pursuit of these desires and the financial means to fulfill them. Personally, I'm not just about numbers. I consider myself a philosopher at heart. despite studying finance and accounting and spending a decade in financial institutions helping people manage money.

Chief Change Officer

#296 Gagan Sandhu: Engineer Your Independence

1636.534

I'm fundamentally a humanist. Life is not only short, it is unpredictable. We might plan to achieve certain things by a certain age, but there's no guarantee we'll have the time. So for me, it's about focusing on the present, like building a good show here. Yes, I need to make and spend money to sustain it.

Chief Change Officer

#296 Gagan Sandhu: Engineer Your Independence

164.988

You're really a key part of this bigger journey you started off some time ago. It feels like just yesterday, maybe a year or two back, when we got on that call as you were beginning your venture. You had just left your corporate job to dive headfirst into your new endeavor. But before we dive into that, let's take a step back. I'd love to hear more about your background.

Chief Change Officer

#296 Gagan Sandhu: Engineer Your Independence

1667.558

But I do stress over really long-term financial plans because the future is after all uncertain. To me, managing personal wealth is less about math. and more about one's life philosophy, psychology, and the ability to tune out the noise and adapt to changes around us. That's my perspective on financial independence.

Chief Change Officer

#296 Gagan Sandhu: Engineer Your Independence

198.999

What have you done before this? Let's explore some of the major milestones. moving across borders, adapting to different cultures, and how you've embraced change throughout your life so far. Let's start there.

Chief Change Officer

#296 Gagan Sandhu: Engineer Your Independence

1982.447

Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#296 Gagan Sandhu: Engineer Your Independence

46.692

Like many of my previous guests, Gargan is an immigrant who moved from India to the States about 20 years ago. With a mechanical engineering background, he began his journey as a grad student. About two years ago, he founded a FinTech company aimed at helping Gen Y and Z achieve financial independence.

Chief Change Officer

#296 Gagan Sandhu: Engineer Your Independence

483.363

Reflecting on my career, there are lots and lots of twists and turns, much like yours and those of many guests I've had so far on this show. I always ask this question. As we progress, often without realizing it, we uncover themes, motivations, or drivers that push us from one milestone to the next.

Chief Change Officer

#296 Gagan Sandhu: Engineer Your Independence

513.852

Although these stages might not appear linked on the surface, they are often connected by underlying forces. So it's clear our choices aren't as random as they might seem. Something is always guiding us. Have you thought about what drives you? What are your key motivators? What recurring themes have you noticed in your journey?

Chief Change Officer

#296 Gagan Sandhu: Engineer Your Independence

75.167

Speaking of financial independence, I've always been skeptical of it, seeing it more as a myth or a marketing buzzword. In true Chicago Booth style, Gargan and I will be exchanging viewpoints on this topic, agreeing to disagree while appreciating and understanding our different perspectives in a sensible manner. On top of that, Gargan will share invaluable insights on managing career paths.

Chief Change Officer

#296 Gagan Sandhu: Engineer Your Independence

902.477

You've become financially independent and then decided to start this company to help others achieve the same. This makes me wonder, what does financial independence mean to you? I'm very eager to hear about your personal wealth philosophy. The term financial independence is heavily used online. In fact, often misused or reduced to just a buzzword.

Chief Change Officer

#296 Gagan Sandhu: Engineer Your Independence

936.508

But I'm interested in your genuine perspective and practices. How do you interpret and apply this concept in your life?

Chief Change Officer

#295 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part Two

1090.45

I really like what you said. Being together, but still being yourself. You can have different interests. Maybe you love ice cream and he doesn't like dessert. That's fine. And that day swap idea is great. You get to rediscover each other, what they like, what's changed. Even something simple like gift giving becomes more thoughtful because we all change over time.

Chief Change Officer

#295 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part Two

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If we do notice that in each other, that's when we start to feel disconnected.

Chief Change Officer

#295 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part Two

1166.178

Today, you've shared a lot of great insights. from the importance of togetherness and self to ideas like the day's walk and a dimmer approach to identity change. I really like that one. Slowly refocusing on yourself over time so it doesn't feel like a sudden loss when your kids leave home. You also reminded us that being a mom never ends.

Chief Change Officer

#295 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part Two

12.853

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Jodi Silverman, founder of the Moms Who Dare community and someone who knows what it's like to face a totally quiet house and wonder what comes next.

Chief Change Officer

#295 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part Two

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The role evolves from caretaker to advisor, but the connection remains. And as you said, we don't need to be the best friends. We guide, we let go, and we keep building a life of our own. So if there's a parent listening right now, maybe still feeling down, stuck, or overwhelmed by the emptiness, what would you say to them? What's one thing they can do to start moving forward again?

Chief Change Officer

#295 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part Two

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So far, among the women you've connected with, what are some of the common challenges they face? And with those challenges in mind, what kinds of solutions have you seen, either from the group or ones you've helped them discover?

Chief Change Officer

#295 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part Two

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And that's the end for our two-part series on Jodi Silverman. Jodi's journey is a reminder that letting go of one identity isn't the end. It's an opening. Whether you are a parent, partner, or just someone trying to figure out what's next, her dear method is a good place to start. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#295 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part Two

1457.786

If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#295 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part Two

365.347

This process isn't easy. Like you said, it's not like flipping a switch. It's more like turning a dimmer. The change happens gradually. So it helps to prepare for it step by step, stage by stage. Maybe that means adjusting small habits every day or every month. That way, when the day actually comes, When they really leave for college or move out, you're more ready for it.

Chief Change Officer

#295 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part Two

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The empty nest experience isn't just something moms go through, dads feel it too. So I'm curious, how did your husband handle it? What was his reaction like? How did he respond to the shift at home?

Chief Change Officer

#295 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part Two

67.929

She built a print business, raised a family, and then realized it was time to find something that lit her up again. In this two-part series, we talk about letting go of old roles, parenting when you are no longer the fixer, and why your next chapter doesn't have to look like your last one. Jodi's story is honest, warm, and refreshingly real. Let's get into it.

Chief Change Officer

#295 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part Two

742.902

I think in general, just speaking broadly, men tend to be less outwardly sentimental. Part of that comes from how society has shaped us. Across cultures, men are expected to be the strong ones, the calm ones. I still remember being told as a kid, boys shouldn't cry. Well, it was okay for girls, which doesn't make any sense. We're all human. We have sentiments. We have feelings.

Chief Change Officer

#295 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part Two

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So I think for many fathers, even if they feel the sadness intrinsically, deeply, they may not show it. Maybe they shed tears in private, but that conditioning runs deep and it definitely shapes how they process things like the empty nest stage.

Chief Change Officer

#295 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part Two

844.971

So, quick side story. I was chatting with another guest recently. His father and both his kids had left home. We were not even talking about family at first, more about leadership and career stuff. But somehow this topic came up. And what he shared was interesting.

Chief Change Officer

#295 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part Two

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He said after the kids left, he and his wife decided not to just go back to us as a couple, but instead they each returned to their individual selves. They gave each other space, meaning living under the same roof, but doing the things they loved independently. He said, over the past 20 something years, a lot of that got put aside for parenting. Now they are picking it back up again.

Chief Change Officer

#295 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part Two

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And for them, it works. Have you seen that happen in your own experience? either in your family or with others in your community. And would you say that's a good thing?

Chief Change Officer

#363 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part One

100.055

Siham thrives in adversity. She describes herself as more than resilient. She is antifragile. I see her as someone who has learned over time to turn adversity into an advantage. is not an inborn talent. Rather, it's something nurtured and developed. How? Let's find out.

Chief Change Officer

#363 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part One

12.674

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. How do I even begin to introduce our first guest from Belgium who has Moroccan roots? Her name is Siham El-Kawakibi.

Chief Change Officer

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Politics, whether in government or the office, is something that some people are really good at navigating. Some people thrive in it and even seek out more of it. It sounds like you saw Parliament as a stage to make a positive impact on the communities you care about. Your intentions were noble, but the environment made things worse.

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#363 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part One

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Not only were you unable to create the impact you wanted, but you also faced various attacks and toxic behavior. The same goes for office environments. Many corporate workers might be incredibly smart and capable, but they struggle to climb the corporate ladder because they either don't play politics, don't play it well, or aren't willing to play it at all.

Chief Change Officer

#363 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part One

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I've been in a corporate world and I've seen and experienced my share of political maneuvering. I've had my own struggles with mental health due to corporate politics. That's part of why I decided to become an entrepreneur, a free agent, rather than being bound or controlled by that environment.

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For many people, whether they are considering a job change, a career shift, or even trying to change the world as an entrepreneur, one key takeaway is to choose your environment and culture carefully. In certain cultures and environments, you can thrive and excel. In others, you might struggle. It doesn't mean you are not smart or that your intentions are not good enough.

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Often, it's the environment and the culture that holds you back, preventing you from achieving what you want to achieve. That's been my experience.

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Yes, I'm here. Thank you. Seaham has over 20 years of experience across both the private and public sectors, along with a wealth of personal experiences. That's so much we can talk about today. Before that, Could you give us an overview of your journey through the key milestones of your life and career? Then we'll explore different elements in more detail.

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

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#363 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part One

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Yes, we met through common friends and explored common topics, which is one of the reasons why I really wanted to interview you. You have so much knowledge and real experience to share. As I mentioned in the show notes, I don't sell the success stories of my guests. They are obviously successful in their own way and in their own space.

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#363 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part One

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But what makes this podcast special is the real stories, the lived experiences, which sometimes aren't very pleasant. You mentioned mental health, which is undoubtedly a hot topic in today's world. Honestly, in a world as complex and challenging as ours, who can truly say they are perfectly mentally healthy? We all have to deal with different kinds of stress and burnout. So let's stop here.

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Let's talk about mental health. If I understood you correctly, Is this something that stems from your years in politics? Or does it go further back? Maybe to your childhood, adolescence, or work life in the private sector? Please share more about the challenges you faced.

Chief Change Officer

#363 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part One

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She is a Moroccan immigrant, a burnout and bankruptcy survivor, a parliamentarian, a champion of diversity and inclusion. She is also the creator of Women Leaders OS and a Women's Leadership Coach. She is all these and more. Beyond these identities, what truly impresses me are the experiences that have shaped these transformations. Some people thrive in politics. others in stability.

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#363 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part One

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So far, I've had two guests in season one, both women who are involved in politics. One is a parliamentarian in Singapore, and the other one was a lawyer in Paris before moving to Senegal to get involved in politics and government. Now she's deeply involved in public administration. In their respective capacities, they've made great impacts in their communities.

Chief Change Officer

#363 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part One

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I'd like to share a bit from their experiences. For example, the one in Singapore, my classmate from Chicago MBA, mentioned that the election period and its aftermath were the darkest times in her life. She didn't explicitly mention mental health, but she was attacked on social media for her age and so-called inexperience, being the youngest elected parliamentarian at that time.

Chief Change Officer

#363 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part One

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I bring this up because you mentioned that politics is a negative sum game. While I can imagine the satisfaction of being in a position of influence and making an impact on the communities you care about, I can also see how political games could be a major source of mental health challenges. Can you share more about the challenges you faced during that time?

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And of course, without naming names, just the lessons you learned or specific incidents that led to struggles, perhaps even depression. I think that would be helpful.

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#362 James Hilovsky: From Pro Athlete to Franchise Matchmaker—Part Two

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Yeah, I think this tolerance for failure is very important. It's not something non-athletes are typically trained for. Speaking of non-athletes, this might be a good point for us to step back and look at the bigger picture.

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Earlier, you mentioned starting your business around the COVID period, when everyone was stuck at home and started developing different perspectives on their careers and lives. Now, we are back to normal, but the world has changed. and still changing with technology and other moving factors. A lot of uncertainties with layoffs, corporate downsizing, inflation, etc.

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In this kind of environment, you probably get a lot of inquiries from regular people about whether franchising could be the next chapter of their lives. So I have two related questions for you. First, for non-athletes listening who may not have the athletic background, what advice would you give them for making this decision? What factors should they consider?

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Second, given the uncertainties in the economy and other factors, When people want to start a new chapter in their lives, they feel the urge, the pressure to do so quickly, which comes with risks. James, you are a nice, incredible person, but that could be others in your business who are not as trustworthy as you.

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So once these regular people decide to move into this new world of franchising, how can they be smarter about figuring out who to work with and what kind of business to get into?

Chief Change Officer

#362 James Hilovsky: From Pro Athlete to Franchise Matchmaker—Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today at our studio, We welcome James Hilofsky from Riverside in Southern California.

Chief Change Officer

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So I have great respect for franchising as a business model that can positively transform lives. Let's discover how James has used franchising for the greater good for both athletes and everyday people.

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So, a lot of due diligence is needed, really hands-on due diligence, before jumping into investing a chunk of money. It's not just the financial investment, also the time and hope you're putting into potentially creating something that could be generationally relevant for your children and yourself in the future. Whether you are in your pre-retirement or retirement life, so much sticks on hand.

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To wrap up our interview, I was wondering, James, when you look back at helping both athletes and non-athletes, what's the most fulfilling impact you found yourself making in this business? Of course, building a successful business is important. But I'm curious about the impact you're most proud of in these four years.

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Great. Thank you so much, James. Thanks for your time and all the insights. Like any other major change in life, career changes, including franchising, can be incredibly fulfilling. It is a rewarding journey, not just for you as the facilitator, but for both sides of the business equation. I hope that every listen to this show feels inspired.

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If you're considering franchising, talk to James or other credible experts and do thorough due diligence about the business and about yourself. is a big decision, but it can be a worthwhile one.

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#362 James Hilovsky: From Pro Athlete to Franchise Matchmaker—Part Two

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When you look back at these examples where you acted as the advisor and matchmaker, helping them figure out their plans and goals, what are the three qualities that stand out in these successful individuals? These qualities could be skill, mindsets, psychological traits, or something related to the sports they play.

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Can you name some key qualities that are common and contribute to success in franchising for these athletes?

Chief Change Officer

#362 James Hilovsky: From Pro Athlete to Franchise Matchmaker—Part Two

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Sure. Leadership quality, of course, being a strong team player and having a risk-taking mindset. In fact, leadership has many elements, but basically it's about being a team player, a risk taker, and being coachable. In sports, they always have coaches. When you talk about coaching, it reminds me of the scenario in venture and entrepreneurship, especially in tech ventures.

Chief Change Officer

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In the past, when I talked to investors, or venture capitalists. I asked them what kind of entrepreneurs or founders you'd like to invest in or admire. One quality they mentioned was being coachable. They explained that some founders might be very smart and passionate, but if they are not receptive to coaching, is a problem.

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These founders may resist advice, fail to learn from mistakes, and ignore experienced voices. This is what investors mean by being coachable. I can totally relate to that when you mentioned the coachability of athletes.

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James runs a unique franchise consulting business, primarily serving retired athletes from the NBA and NFL who are starting new chapters in their lives as franchisees. He also helps regular people with their franchise businesses. James believes that using his expertise in franchising to change lives and livelihoods of families and future generations is a dream come true endeavor.

Chief Change Officer

#362 James Hilovsky: From Pro Athlete to Franchise Matchmaker—Part Two

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Would you say ego could be a risk for athletes? What other qualities should athletes watch out for? Looking at the flip side, what traits could counteract success in franchising and leadership?

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Yeah, I can tell from your explanation that when athletes transition into the business world, whether as franchisees or stand-alone entrepreneurs, ego can be a risk. But Beyond Ego is also about figuring out what kind of risks they want to take and what costs they are willing to incur. By costs, I don't just mean money, but also learning curves and other challenges.

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To me, franchising is a more controllable type of business venture because, like you said, the system is established, risks are calculatable, and there is a track record. In contrast, starting a new business from scratch is riskier. If you are a creative type of athlete, you might want to start something on your own from the ground up. In that case, are you ready to take that kind of risk?

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Are you ready to step up and make the best use of your leadership skills? Different personalities and risk tolerance levels come into play during this transition. Let me play devil's advocate for a moment. While you argue that the transition from sportsmanship to franchise leadership has many similarities and seems like a perfect fit, there are hidden areas to consider.

Chief Change Officer

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In sports world, everything is clear cut and measurable. For example, in swimming, one of my favorite sports. You know who wins the gold medal because it's the person who finishes the fastest. The timing technology is sophisticated and precise, leaving no ambiguity.

Chief Change Officer

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In the business world, however, while we have financial goals and key performance indicators, there are many hidden risks and ambiguities, especially when dealing with people, partners, and employees. Athletes are trained in controlled environments. But when they move into less controlled business environments, even within franchising, they face uncertainties.

Chief Change Officer

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I haven't been a franchisee or franchisor myself, but I do have experience with the franchise business. Many years ago, when my parents immigrated to Canada with zero local experience and connections, they ventured into franchising to make a living. Despite the hardships, using franchising as a means to fulfill the dream of becoming immersed and settled in the community was life changing.

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How do you help athletes make this transition? Does it involve mindset shifts, education, or more coaching? What do you think?

Chief Change Officer

#361 James Hilovsky: From Pro Athlete to Franchise Matchmaker—Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today at our studio, we welcome James Helofsky from Riverside in Southern California.

Chief Change Officer

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So, I have great respect for franchising as a business model that can positively transform lives. Let's discover how James has used franchising for the greater good for both athletes and everyday people. Good morning, James. How are you doing today?

Chief Change Officer

#361 James Hilovsky: From Pro Athlete to Franchise Matchmaker—Part One

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When you look back at these examples where you acted as the advisor and matchmaker, helping them figure out the plans and goals, What are the three qualities that stand out in these successful individuals? These qualities could be skill, mindsets, psychological traits, or something related to the sports they play.

Chief Change Officer

#361 James Hilovsky: From Pro Athlete to Franchise Matchmaker—Part One

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Can you name some key qualities that are common and contribute to success in franchising for these athletes?

Chief Change Officer

#361 James Hilovsky: From Pro Athlete to Franchise Matchmaker—Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

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James joins us in a very timely moment. As we speak, this is the second week of the Olympic Games. Today, we are talking about sports, especially the lives of athletes. Before we dive into that, I'll let James introduce himself, share his background, his history, and his career path.

Chief Change Officer

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Then we'll jump right into our discussion on athletes, on business, on franchises, and how all these things link together.

Chief Change Officer

#361 James Hilovsky: From Pro Athlete to Franchise Matchmaker—Part One

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So when exactly did you start this franchise consulting business?

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So around the time COVID started, what was the situation for you in terms of building your business? It sounds like you had gained trust from some athlete and entered their circle, building confidence. But then we faced this lifetime crisis, so much uncertainty. As an entrepreneur, how did you navigate the landscape? And eventually, how did you get through it and return to normal?

Chief Change Officer

#361 James Hilovsky: From Pro Athlete to Franchise Matchmaker—Part One

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James runs a unique franchise consulting business, primarily serving retired athletes from the NBA and NFL who are starting new chapters in their lives as franchisees. He also helps regular people with their franchise businesses. James believes that using his expertise in franchising to change lives and livelihoods of families and future generations is a dream come true endeavor.

Chief Change Officer

#361 James Hilovsky: From Pro Athlete to Franchise Matchmaker—Part One

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Yeah, we'll definitely touch upon the idea of regular people getting involved in the franchise business, especially with all the changes in the job market. But before we get into that, let's go back to the sports world and the athletes.

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I remember you've mentioned before, both in our conversations and on social media, that there are many parallels between the sports business and franchising in terms of generating revenue streams. Could you explain how that works? How do sports franchises compare to regular franchising?

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So it sounds like you are saying that the way franchising is set up and run is similar to the environment in which athletes are trained, following rules, knowing the rules, and so on. But what about the cost and revenue structure and all those other business aspects?

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When you invest in or get involved in a business, you always consider the business model, revenue, costs, hiring, marketing, et cetera. Do you see similarities or parallels in the business world that apply to the sports world? In other words, does the environment athletes are trained in make it easier for them to transition into the business world?

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I haven't been a franchisee or franchisor myself, But I do have experience with the franchise business. Many years ago, when my parents immigrated to Canada with zero local experience and connections, they ventured into franchising to make a living. Despite the hardships, using franchising as a means to fulfill the dream of becoming immersed and settled in the community was life-changing.

Chief Change Officer

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Can you share some successful examples of clients you've worked with? You can name names if it's okay, or just tell us about the factors and elements that help these athletes transition well into their businesses. How did the process unfold and what was the eventual outcome?

Chief Change Officer

#404 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part Two

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I feel like you are the perfect person to offer some advice here.

Chief Change Officer

#404 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part Two

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Some might say this sounds philosophical, but really, it's science. When you believe something is possible, your actions start to align with that belief. You try, you keep trying, you keep adjusting, you keep moving forward. But if you tell yourself, nope, it's impossible, you never even start. It's not just mindset, it's behavior, thought plus action.

Chief Change Officer

#404 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part Two

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Jodie Foster, the actor, the director, the producer, and a Yale grad, said it best in her masterclass, all you need to make a movie is pen, paper, and confidence, not fancy tools, just the basics and believe in yourself. That really stuck with me. And honestly, that's what I've lived through too.

Chief Change Officer

#404 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Nora Chow, fellow Yale alum, former fund manager, and someone whose journey mirrors mind in more ways than one.

Chief Change Officer

#404 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part Two

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Nora, thank you very much for your time tonight. While we live in the same city, we do this virtually, and I really appreciate you take time out of your busy schedule to share so much with me, with us. Thank you very much.

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#404 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part Two

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And that's the end for this series. Nora's story reminds us that mastery isn't always loud. And sometimes the most powerful changes begin in stillness. If you've been waiting for permission to go back to something you love, maybe this was it. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#404 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part Two

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#404 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part Two

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You let your heart stay in the background, not ignored, but quieter, still beating, still alive. You didn't silence it, but you asked it to wait while you focused on logic, on what made sense at the time. And then as life changed, maybe your heart changed too, and you decided it was the time to let it lead a little more, to let it take center stage.

Chief Change Officer

#404 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part Two

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You are still the same Nora with sharp analytical skills, skills you developed in finance, skills you will still need as you undertake new endeavors. You are just choosing to use those skills differently now to support something more personal, more meaningful. So while you've shifted into using your artistic side to help transform lives, I see it as you finally giving your heart the spotlight.

Chief Change Officer

#404 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part Two

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But your head is still right there, backing it up.

Chief Change Officer

#404 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part Two

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Yeah, I must say the world we live in now feels broken, fermented. and honestly, depressed. That's why we're facing this huge crisis of loneliness and mental unwellness. And music, when I say music, I don't just mean classical. It could be pop, jazz, or whatever speaks to someone. It's such a powerful force to help us heal. Even in small ways, it can stabilize our emotions

Chief Change Officer

#404 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part Two

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Bring us back to ourselves. Hopefully. Let's go back to your music venture for a moment. You got a mission, but what about the actions? You compose? You perform? What else are you doing as part of this work?

Chief Change Officer

#404 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part Two

We are both from Hong Kong, shaped by the same family and societal expectations to chase money, business, and brand names. We followed the expected path, elite schools, big careers, but eventually stepped away from the weight of titles, status, and what we were supposed to want. In this two-part series,

Chief Change Officer

#404 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part Two

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Now you just published your new album, Referees on Ivory, which to me is like publishing a book. I just listened to it. I really like it. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if one day when my show gets bigger, I come to you and say, Nora, I want to commission you to write all the background music for the show. The intro, the outro, the whole soundtrack.

Chief Change Officer

#404 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part Two

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The credit will go to you, of course, and that would make it a Yale creation. That's the day I'm really hoping for.

Chief Change Officer

#404 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part Two

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You talk about music creation. composing, storytelling, and now we're entering a world that's increasingly AI-driven. We already have platforms where people can license soundtracks instantly. More people will use tech tools to generate music on their own. You are a human creator. You are classically trained. and not just trained, but over time, you've developed real skill, real craftsmanship.

Chief Change Officer

#404 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part Two

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So I'm curious, how do you see AI stepping into this space? Do you see it as competition or do you see it as a push to step up your own game and differentiate yourself as a music creator?

Chief Change Officer

#404 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part Two

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Yes, it's really about blending artificial and human intelligence. For me, this show is all about human intelligence. It's about life experience, real experience, human experience, the stories, the insight, the foresight, the hindsight, the heart. None of that can be fully replicated by AI. I'm not even worried about tools that can replicate my voice or my guest's voice.

Chief Change Officer

#404 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part Two

Nora shares how she returned to music, launched her new album, Referees on Ivory, and built a life that sounds like her, not someone else's script. From headphones to harmonies, this is a story about dropping the labels and choosing the nooks that matter. Let's get into it. The way I see it, for a period of time, your head led the way.

Chief Change Officer

#404 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part Two

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Because at the end of the day, the way I ask questions is unique. The stories you bring are unique. You are unique. I am unique. The connection between you and me is also unique. This conversation is human-made. Sure, I use AI to check grammar and sentence structure in the show notes or tighten up phrasing, but no tool can replace me as the host, and no tool can replace you as the guest.

Chief Change Officer

#404 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part Two

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It's all about balance between the human and the technology. Speaking of balance, let's go back to something we touched on earlier. the balance between head and heart. We are trained with logic, math, science, economics, but we also carry within us love, music, and the heart. Now you've chosen to follow your heart, but there are people out there who might be where you once were.

Chief Change Officer

#404 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part Two

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Maybe they're younger. Maybe they've fulfilled the expectations placed on them. Played the game well, but don't feel fulfilled. They're still struggling between head and heart. So from where you are now, what would you say to someone who's feeling stuck? Someone trying to decide whether to follow their heart or their head? just how to balance the two.

Chief Change Officer

#403 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part One

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You build a successful finance career over 10 years. But then what changed? What happened around 2020, 2021? that made you stop and finally listen to your heart? For the last 10, 20, even 30 years, it sounds like your head was in charge. What triggered you to finally make that ambitious change?

Chief Change Officer

#403 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Nora Chow, fellow Yale alum, former fund manager, and someone whose journey mirrors mind in more ways than one.

Chief Change Officer

#403 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part One

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Nora and I have known each other for quite some time now through the Yale Club of Hong Kong. Over the years, I've watched your growth and transformation. And I have to admit, I always assumed you've been a musician your entire career, but later you told me yes and no. You are definitely a musician by training, but part of your career actually took quite a different turn into finance.

Chief Change Officer

#403 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part One

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The way I see it, for a period of time, Your head led the way. You let your heart stay in the background, not ignored, but quieter, still beating, still alive. You didn't silence it, but you asked it to wait while you focused on logic, on what made sense at the time. And then as life changed,

Chief Change Officer

#403 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part One

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Maybe your heart changed too, and you decided it was the time to let it lead a little more, to let it take center stage. You are still the same Nora with sharp analytical skills, skills you developed in finance, skills you will still need as you undertake new endeavors. You are just choosing to use those skills differently now to support something more personal, more meaningful.

Chief Change Officer

#403 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part One

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So while you've shifted into using your artistic side to help transform lives, I see it as you finally giving your heart the spotlight, but your head is still right there backing it up.

Chief Change Officer

#403 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part One

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That's it for part one. We followed Nora's journey from mathematics and music to Morgan Stanley and back again. But the story's just getting good. In part two, we dig into how she's using music to challenge the status quo. Why classical doesn't mean stiff. and how her new album is both a personal statement and a public invitation. See you there. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#403 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part One

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#403 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part One

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which happens to be the area I used to work in as well. So I say there's a lot of interesting layers in your journey. Let's start with a big question. Who are you? Tell us a little about yourself. where you're from, what you've done, and what you're doing now. And then we'll dive into different parts of your story and your transformation.

Chief Change Officer

#403 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part One

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When you first shared your story with me, there were a lot of things I could relate to. Not the singing or composing part. I'm definitely not a trained musician. I did learn piano as a kid, and I enjoy singing. I even did some vocal training later on, but that was more for public speaking. But like you, I was born and raised in Hong Kong.

Chief Change Officer

#403 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part One

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I took part in all those extracurricular activities growing up, including music. Then, like many of us, you went on to a great school. And at Yale, you chose to major in both music and economics. Can you take us back to that moment? You were around 18, starting college. What were you thinking back then when you chose those two majors? Why not just music or just economics?

Chief Change Officer

#403 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part One

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What made you want to combine the two?

Chief Change Officer

#403 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part One

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Yeah, Yale. This episode might feel a little Yale-biased since we're both alums, but it is really known for its liberal arts education. It gives us that freedom to explore, to try different things, and figure out what turns us on. No one at Yale ever said, you have to choose either the arts or the sciences. You are someone who's strong in both music and economics. That's rare.

Chief Change Officer

#403 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part One

We are both from Hong Kong, shaped by the same family and societal expectations to chase money, business, and brand names. We followed the expected path, elite schools, big careers, but eventually stepped away from the weight of titles, status, and what we were supposed to want. In this two-part series,

Chief Change Officer

#403 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part One

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So truly, I applaud you for that. Now, I know you started learning music at a young age, and that love for music stayed with you. But I also see how studying economics gave you another toolkit, especially helpful when thinking about career planning, job options, and maybe even the practical side of life. That's probably why you ended up in banking and hedge funds. You knew how to hedge your risk.

Chief Change Officer

#403 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part One

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But your heart, it kept pointing you back to music. Still, four years later, as a graduating student, you had to make a decision. Stay in the US, go back to Hong Kong, maybe take part in campus recruiting. So what was your thinking back then? you chose to go into finance and what led you to pick the more realistic path at that moment, instead of diving straight into your passion,

Chief Change Officer

#403 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part One

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Yeah, it was a tough choice.

Chief Change Officer

#403 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part One

Nora shares how she returned to music, launched her new album, Referees on Ivory, and built a life that sounds like her, not someone else's script. From headphones to harmonies, this is a story about dropping the labels and choosing the nooks that matter. Let's get into it. Nora, welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#403 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part One

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The site on Bonnet, the whole package, it was all very attractive. And back then, investment banks really knew how to treat young talent. Whether you were fresh out of undergrad or coming from an MBA, they invested seriously and extensively in people, including time, training, and yes, money. And let's be real, money matters.

Chief Change Officer

#403 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part One

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It pays the bills, pays off your student loans, gives you security, and let you dream a little. Maybe even a house with a grand piano, like you said. So of course, when a place like Morgan Stanley or Goldman Sachs makes you an offer, who would say no? I also call this the Hong Kong factor. I grew up in Hong Kong too. And everyone here, literally everyone, is talking about the financial markets.

Chief Change Officer

#403 Lora Chow: Trading Wall Street for a Steinway — Part One

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Stocks, real estate, investment, and even housewives are day trading. That's just the environment we were raised in. So naturally, there's also this peer pressure. You see your classmate joining top banks, getting promoted, earning six, seven or eight figures. That stuff gets into your head. So it makes total sense that you followed the practical path and you did well.

Chief Change Officer

#84 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: From Small-Town Dreams to Blockbuster Stories

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So you're saying that these micro drama series are essentially a volume-driven strategy by tech companies. They invest in creating content such as hiring writers to craft stories and shooting short series. The initial episodes are free, drawing in viewers, and once the audience is hooked, they introduce a paywall starting around episode 11.

Chief Change Officer

#84 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: From Small-Town Dreams to Blockbuster Stories

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It sounds like a clever subscription model, and I imagine they also monetize through advertisements. Your industry, in the Chinese context, is people-focused and people-driven. Engaging with so many different parties is essential to getting things done, but in the U.S., for example…

Chief Change Officer

#84 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: From Small-Town Dreams to Blockbuster Stories

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With the launch of OpenAI and other AI-driven tech companies, industries like media, news, and Hollywood have felt significant ripple effects. We've seen things like strikes in Hollywood over concerns about job losses, with AI potentially replacing roles like scriptwriters, producers, and others in the production process. What about China? AI is a hot topic there.

Chief Change Officer

#84 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: From Small-Town Dreams to Blockbuster Stories

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and then back to China, where she built her network and credentials from scratch in the entertainment industry. Jin has written books, scripts, and produced both movies and TV series. How did she achieve all this? And more importantly, why? It all started with a simple childhood dream. which is a love for TV series. That passion transformed into a devoted career.

Chief Change Officer

#84 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: From Small-Town Dreams to Blockbuster Stories

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In today's episode, I'm thrilled to interview Jing Zhou, a TV and theme maker from China.

Chief Change Officer

#84 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: From Small-Town Dreams to Blockbuster Stories

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In your industry, have you seen AI being integrated yet? Or maybe it's already causing some tension. or discussions about its potential impact?

Chief Change Officer

#84 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: From Small-Town Dreams to Blockbuster Stories

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Speaking of AI versus human, I have to bring up your book, Light of Story. It's in Chinese, not yet available in English, but it's more than a guide on how to tell stories in TV and film. It's also about using stories to create both commercial and social impact. One phrase from the book really stood out to me.

Chief Change Officer

#84 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: From Small-Town Dreams to Blockbuster Stories

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Translated into English, it says, human nature remains unchanged, but people's hearts are changing. That feels so true and philosophical, perhaps influenced by your sociology background. So given your understanding of the past and the future of the entertainment industry in China, what are some of your future plans?

Chief Change Officer

#84 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: From Small-Town Dreams to Blockbuster Stories

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#84 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: From Small-Town Dreams to Blockbuster Stories

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Let's listen to the story of a storyteller.

Chief Change Officer

#84 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: From Small-Town Dreams to Blockbuster Stories

408.78

Despite your passion for TV series, how did you build your track record? How did you grow your network in the entertainment industry and eventually launch your first TV series?

Chief Change Officer

#84 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: From Small-Town Dreams to Blockbuster Stories

48.503

Theme making is a multi-billion dollar industry that relies on the art and business of storytelling. and for a show that shares stories from characters all around the world, how could I not feature someone who has mastered the craft of telling profitable stories? Gene's journey is nothing short of remarkable.

Chief Change Officer

#84 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: From Small-Town Dreams to Blockbuster Stories

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From your experience, how did you overcome this challenge to take that crucial first step? How did you gain recognition early on so as to build momentum and eventually move up and accelerate your career?

Chief Change Officer

#84 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: From Small-Town Dreams to Blockbuster Stories

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From what I've gathered, there's no such thing as pure luck or magic behind success. In today's social media-driven world, weird people make overnight success seem real. But the truth is, every success story is built on a lot of groundwork. You shared how writing a book became a learning journey for you.

Chief Change Officer

#84 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: From Small-Town Dreams to Blockbuster Stories

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From a small-town girl to a sociology major, she later transitioned into accounting and even moved to the U.S. to work as an accountant. But that wasn't the end. She went deeper into the business world, earning an MBA from Chicago Bull. And other bull privates took her into venture capital.

Chief Change Officer

#84 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: From Small-Town Dreams to Blockbuster Stories

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Similarly, it's about getting closer to the right circles, meeting relevant people, learning from them, letting them get to know you, and fostering relationships. That's how opportunities start to align with your interests. Even if the first step is more like taking an unpaid job, it gets you in the door and builds momentum.

Chief Change Officer

#84 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: From Small-Town Dreams to Blockbuster Stories

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But I remember you mentioning that when you decided to leave your previous job to pursue your passion for TV, the industry wasn't exactly booming. It was already facing challenges. And then COVID hit, making things even harder. Yet you still took that leap, perhaps partly for educational purposes.

Chief Change Officer

#84 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: From Small-Town Dreams to Blockbuster Stories

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So I'm curious, what was the state of the TV industry in China when you decided to make that transition? How did the pandemic reshape things?

Chief Change Officer

#84 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: From Small-Town Dreams to Blockbuster Stories

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So you were saying there was a flood of hot money, short-term, speculative, opportunistic investment driving the entertainment industry 10 years ago. Then came the rise of social media and the internet, which opened the floodgates to content of all kinds. With that surge, naturally, came a lot of junk, low quality, and poorly produced material that overwhelmed the industry.

Chief Change Officer

#84 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: From Small-Town Dreams to Blockbuster Stories

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You mentioned something interesting, micro-drama series. This format seems to have gained traction in China. What exactly is a micro drama series in a Chinese context? How does it differ from traditional format? And what's driving its popularity?

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In this episode and the last, I'm talking to Christopher Kwak, a third-generation member of a well-established family business in Singapore. against his father's expectations.

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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You've accomplished a lot over the years. I'm curious, how does your father see your growth and development? Looking back, you did not follow the path he expected. And over years, you've gone through many changes. If I heard you correctly, you even sold your inheritance to start Triath and raise the capital to build the farm. If I were in your father's shoes...

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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How would I feel seeing my son try out so many different things and achieve so much while still striving for more? Had he said anything to you about your journey so far? How does your family view your transformation?

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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I recall you wrote an article titled, Is Singapore still relevant after 50 years? Here's an entrepreneurial view. So you returned to Singapore after Malaysia built up the startup ecosystem and founded your venture capital house. Could you share with us your experience during this time?

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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I can definitely resonate with the Chinese mindset and culture you mentioned earlier. A lot of my friends grew up to become doctors, lawyers, or accountants. Those expected professional paths. I'm actually a trained accountant. That was my first job. But over time, I changed directions. While I don't have your kind of family background, my parents also had expectations for me.

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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At some point, I made certain moves to fulfill those expectations. But eventually, I broke free from them. I can really relate to that desire to break free, the persistence it takes, and the actions required to make it happen. The tagline for this show is make change ambitiously. which is all about building your own legacy and creating your own path rather than following a standard playbook.

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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In your story and journey so far, I see those elements very clearly. I'm sure your father, your friends, and everyone who has supported you along the way see it too.

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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One last question. Since we've talked about intergenerational wealth, and we're now living in an era of intergenerational workforce, I'm curious, you are a father yourself. So what are your expectations for your children as they grow up? In terms of their identity, their careers, and their lives, what do you hope for them?

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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Let's wrap up our conversation by looking into the future, not just from a business perspective, but in terms of your children's lives. I think this would be a nice way to close our discussion.

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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I read in your presentation that 92% of businesses in Southeast Asia are family-run. I'd like to dig deeper into the unique challenges these next-gen family business owners face. Could you explain a bit more, especially for listeners who may not be from this part of the world or who don't have experience with family businesses?

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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I think it would be helpful for us to understand the specific challenges because some people might assume, oh, they all have money. So what's the situation? What are the real challenges they face?

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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He left the family business and his home country to pursue entrepreneurship in Malaysia, where he became an e-commerce entrepreneur. Upon returning to Singapore, he sold his inheritance to raise the set up capital for his venture capital firm. Chris wants to be his own man. We've explored his journey of transformation in two parts.

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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When I look at your business model for Trice as a VC, it strikes me as quite smart. There are tons of VCs out there, but as I prepare for this interview and read about your approach, I realized how clever it is. So for those who may not be familiar with how venture capital works, VCs don't just invest their own money.

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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They also raise money from investors, and then as fiduciaries, managing that pool of money by investing in high growth potential businesses. The objective is for these businesses to succeed, generate returns, and provide profits back to the investors. What stands out about your model, Chris, is that you've built a strong network with the next generation of family business owners.

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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These individuals have capital, and you are able to raise money from them. They don't have to commit a massive amount of money. Perhaps each might allocate a million dollars or so, maybe even low seven-figure sum. But with the right scale, even a half million dollar check for each could add up significantly as limited partners in your fund.

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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Your fund has deployed about $40 million so far, investing in technologies with next gen solutions that could be highly relevant to these family businesses. This creates a cycle of synergy You raise funds, invest in technology, and these technologies can in turn serve as solutions for the businesses of your investors.

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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It's a cycle that keeps the entire engine moving along smoothly, allowing you to continue raising funds and investing in technology that benefits everyone involved. I must say, the whole setup makes a lot of sense to me.

Chief Change Officer

#222 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 2

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The last episode focused on his pursuit of his own identity, his desires, his actions, the why and the how. In this episode, We'll dive into his work as a VC investor, building up the entrepreneurial ecosystem in Singapore and Southeast Asia. We'll discuss the legacy he hopes to create for his country and the region. And we'll talk about his expectations for his children as a father at age 46.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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It's like planting a seed. Along the way, you nurture it. And eventually, it bears fruit. Life has a way of bringing things back to you at the right time if you go with the flow.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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I'm not being religious here, but after years of cross-cultural experiences, getting to know different cultures, people, and backgrounds, I've noticed that certain common themes link up the decisions I've made in my career and life. So I'm curious about your journey. You are 46 with family and children.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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Looking back up to this point in your life, have you discovered or identified any common themes that have guided the moves you've made along the way?

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In this episode and the next, I'll be talking to Christopher Quek, a third-generation member of a well-established family business in Singapore.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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We'll also explore his expectations for his own children as a father at age 46. Chris, welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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As I was listening, two words came to mind, self-discovery and self-fulfillment. It seems that your life and career have been about discovering, identifying, and fulfilling your identities. While you've mentioned roles like entrepreneur and now investor, these are more like perspectives you take or roles you play. But I believe that identity is something essential or central to everyone's life.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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Not just for those with privileged backgrounds, but for anyone and everyone. I know some really successful people who, by the time they retire or near the end of their life journey, regret that they followed the standard playbook and never gave themselves a chance to do more. To do something different, for example.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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So I appreciate your boldness, your adventurous attitude, and the actions you've taken so far. I recall you wrote an article titled, Is Singapore Still Relevant After 50 Years? Here's an Entrepreneurial View. So you returned to Singapore after Malaysia. built up the startup ecosystem and founded your venture capital house. Could you share with us your experience during this time?

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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Stay tuned for the part two of Chris' Journey of Transformation. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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Chris and I met a few years back through a common friend in Singapore. Since then, we've exchanged a lot of ideas about entrepreneurship, investment and more. Today, I invite Chris to come over to our show and share with us about his own journey into entrepreneurship and investment, as well as his vision for driving change in the Southeast Asian entrepreneurial ecosystem.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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At the start, Chris, could you share with us about your background and personal career? Then we'll explore different parts of your journey.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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You mentioned you were raised in a fairly established family business. You could have taken the easy route, taken over the family business, scale it up, and continued making money. But instead, you chose to be more entrepreneurial and take risks.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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I'm curious, was there anything in your childhood, in your family education, or the environment you grew up in that helped shape your entrepreneurial spirit and mindset?

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

54.222

Against his father's expectations, he left the family business and his home country to pursue entrepreneurship in Malaysia. where he became an e-commerce entrepreneur. Upon returning to Singapore, he sold his inheritance to raise the set of capital for his venture capital firm. Chris wants to be his own man. We will explore his journey of transformation in two parts.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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I totally see it. While I don't have your kind of family background, I can relate in other ways. I'm just about five years older than you. I might have a baby face, but actually 51. My journey in the business world, aside from formal education and business school, was shaped largely by the people around me.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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I worked in corporate jobs at global organizations, and the best learning I've ever received wasn't just from corporate training. It was from people. Like you, I learned a lot from those with on-the-job experience, whether it was my bosses, colleagues, or mentors. These are things that aren't digitalized or written in books, but are passed down directly, much like how your father trained you.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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I picked up concepts like business models, revenue structures, and cost management early on. Often before I even knew the formal terms. What really resonated with me was the encouragement and confidence these people gave me before I even believed in myself. They gave me opportunities to try something new and different.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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And that's something I can surely relate to in your experience, even though we come from different family backgrounds.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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It's interesting that you brought up Li Ka-shing because as you were sharing how your father trained you during your childhood, it reminded me of a well-known story about Li Ka-shing himself. For the listeners who may not know who Li Ka-shing is, Originally from Hong Kong, he is the founder of a multi-billion dollar business conglomerate with a global footprint.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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He famously brought his eldest son, Victor Lee, into the boardroom at the age of eight to immerse him in the boardroom dynamics. Clearly, he was preparing him as the heir to the business. Back to you, Chris. Your father obviously had high expectations for you to take over the family business. Yet, you only stayed in China for three days and then headed off to Malaysia.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

99.279

This episode focuses on his pursuit of his own identity, his desires, his actions, the why and the how. In the next episode, we'll dive into his current work as a VC investor building up the entrepreneurial ecosystem in Singapore and Southeast Asia. We'll discuss the legacy he hopes to create for his country and the region.

Chief Change Officer

#221 Inheritance? No Thanks. Chris Quek’s Boldest Bet Yet – Part 1

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Where did you find the courage or the guts to make that decision? And can you share more about your e-commerce business in Malaysia? What did you learn during those six years there?

Chief Change Officer

#169 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: Lights, Camera, Career Pivot

1003.817

So you're saying that these micro drama series are essentially a volume-driven strategy by tech companies. They invest in creating content, such as hiring writers to craft stories and shooting short series. The initial episodes are free, drawing in viewers, and once the audience is hooked, they introduce a paywall starting around episode 11.

Chief Change Officer

#169 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: Lights, Camera, Career Pivot

1039.478

It sounds like a clever subscription model, and I imagine they also monetize through advertisements. Your industry, in the Chinese context, is people-focused and people-driven. Engaging with so many different parties is essential to getting things done, but in the U.S., for example,

Chief Change Officer

#169 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: Lights, Camera, Career Pivot

1063.729

With the launch of OpenAI and other AI-driven tech companies, industries like media, news, and Hollywood have felt significant ripple effects. We've seen things like strikes in Hollywood over concerns about job losses. with AI potentially replacing roles like scriptwriters, producers, and others in the production process. What about China? AI is a hot topic there.

Chief Change Officer

#169 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: Lights, Camera, Career Pivot

1100.84

In your industry, have you seen AI being integrated yet? Or maybe it's already causing some tension or discussions about its potential impact?

Chief Change Officer

#169 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: Lights, Camera, Career Pivot

116.712

Jin has written books, scripts, and produced both movies and TV series. How did she achieve all this? And more importantly, why? It all started with a simple childhood dream. which is a love for TV series. That passion transformed into a devoted career. Let's listen to the story of a storyteller.

Chief Change Officer

#169 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: Lights, Camera, Career Pivot

1176.828

Speaking of AI versus human, I have to bring up your book, Light of Story. It's in Chinese, not yet available in English, but it's more than a guide on how to tell stories in TV and film. It's also about using stories to create both commercial and social impact. One phrase from the book really stood out to me.

Chief Change Officer

#169 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: Lights, Camera, Career Pivot

1208.652

Translated into English, it says, human nature remains unchanged, but people's hearts are changing. That feels so true and philosophical, perhaps influenced by your sociology background. So given your understanding of the past and the future of the entertainment industry in China, what are some of your future plans?

Chief Change Officer

#169 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: Lights, Camera, Career Pivot

1375.629

Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media.

Chief Change Officer

#169 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: Lights, Camera, Career Pivot

1394.773

I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#169 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: Lights, Camera, Career Pivot

36.686

In today's episode, I'm thrilled to interview Jing Zhou, a TV and film maker from China. Film making is a multi-billion dollar industry that relies on the art and business of storytelling. and for sure that shares stories from characters all around the world, how could I not feature someone who has mastered the craft of telling profitable stories? Jean's journey is nothing short of remarkable.

Chief Change Officer

#169 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: Lights, Camera, Career Pivot

407.64

Despite your passion for TV series, how did you build your track record? How did you grow your network in the entertainment industry and eventually launch your first TV series?

Chief Change Officer

#169 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: Lights, Camera, Career Pivot

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is the classic chicken and egg dilemma. From your experience, how did you overcome this challenge to take that crucial first step? How did you gain recognition early on so as to build momentum and eventually move up and accelerate your career?

Chief Change Officer

#169 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: Lights, Camera, Career Pivot

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From what I've gathered, there's no such thing as pure luck or magic behind success. In today's social media-driven world, weird people make overnight success seem real. But the truth is, every success story is built on a lot of groundwork. You shared how writing a book became a learning journey for you. Similarly, it's about getting closer to the right circles.

Chief Change Officer

#169 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: Lights, Camera, Career Pivot

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From a small-town girl to a sociology major, She later transitioned into accounting and even moved to the U.S. to work as an accountant. But that wasn't the end. She went deeper into the business world, earning an MBA from Chicago Bull. Another bull privet took her into venture capital and then back to China. where she built her network and credentials from scratch in the entertainment industry.

Chief Change Officer

#169 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: Lights, Camera, Career Pivot

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meeting relevant people, learning from them, letting them get to know you, and fostering relationships. That's how opportunities start to align with your interests. Even if the first step is more like taking an unpaid job, it gets you in the door and builds momentum. But I remember you mentioning that when you decided to leave your previous job to pursue your passion for TV,

Chief Change Officer

#169 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: Lights, Camera, Career Pivot

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The industry wasn't exactly booming. It was already facing challenges. And then COVID hit, making things even harder. Yet you still took that leap, perhaps partly for educational purposes. So I'm curious, what was the state of the TV industry in China when you decided to make that transition? How did the pandemic reshape things?

Chief Change Officer

#169 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: Lights, Camera, Career Pivot

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#169 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: Lights, Camera, Career Pivot

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So you were saying there was a flood of hot money, short-term, speculative, opportunistic investment driving the entertainment industry 10 years ago. Then came the rise of social media and the internet, which opened the floodgates to content of all kinds. With that surge, naturally, came a lot of junk, low quality, and poorly produced material that overwhelmed the industry.

Chief Change Officer

#169 TV and Filmmaker Jean Zhou: Lights, Camera, Career Pivot

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You mentioned something interesting, micro-drama series. This format seems to have gained traction in China. What exactly is a micro-drama series in the Chinese context? How does it differ from traditional format? And what's driving its popularity?

Chief Change Officer

#92 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part One

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Now, let's deep dive into Mediafly. I really want to learn more about your work there. What sort of problems you're trying to solve and whose problem?

Chief Change Officer

#92 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part One

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It was about moving forward, unburdened. is a powerful reminder of the resilience it takes to truly embrace change and chase success on one's own terms. I'd come to know Mary before I even met her in person. A common friend, so to speak, is her partner, Waverly Deutsch, who was my former professor of entrepreneurship at Chicago Booth.

Chief Change Officer

#92 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part One

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So you've got a whole suite of tech-enabled solutions blended with human services. Yes. So how does the AI technology impact your space, especially in the context of human and machine interaction?

Chief Change Officer

#92 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part One

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Next time, Mary is going to break down how AI technology is not just a buzzword, but a game changer for sales teams and their revenue goals. Plus, we are tackling a topic that is a bit out of the ordinary, the co-CEO governance model. Ever wonder how having two captains during the ship compares to the solo CEO journey? How do they make it work?

Chief Change Officer

#92 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part One

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After I heard all the wonderful things about Mary's business success in the sales space, I finally got to sit down with her over dinner when both of them came to Hong Kong before COVID. Other than good food and wine, fun conversation, I was impressed by all the changes she has led, building herself up with so much resilience and intelligence.

Chief Change Officer

#92 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part One

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As I was putting together the guest list for the podcast, I thought of her right away. I emailed her directly. Within eight minutes, I got her reply. There, she said, I would love to be on your podcast. Please send over details. Our team will take a look to make sure it's a good fit for me and Mediafly, which I already assume it is. You bet, Mary. Here we go.

Chief Change Officer

#92 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part One

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Yes, a couple of years, a lot of changes. This podcast is about change. You are the perfect person to talk about that. Now, let's start with your own change. I don't mean just a resume type of introduction, but more about milestones that you've experienced. back in your school days studying music and then move through the business landscape and now you are the co-CEO at Mediaflot.

Chief Change Officer

#92 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part One

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Start with something brief and then we'll dive into specific details.

Chief Change Officer

#92 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In this episode, I'm thrilled to welcome Mary Shea, the co-CEO of Mediafly, a leading revenue enablement company that raised $80 million in capital to turbocharge its growth.

Chief Change Officer

#92 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part One

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At Forrester, you were the analyst.

Chief Change Officer

#92 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part One

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Mary's story is downright inspiring. Mary, a proud LGBT community member and women's empowerment advocate, has taken a path less traveled. Imagine going from a classical musician with a PhD to an entry-level sales job, from playing music to playing a key role in sales, then rising to become a CEO after working as a forester analyst.

Chief Change Officer

#92 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part One

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Now that you look back, if you analyze your career life, do you see any common threads or themes or factors or drivers of motivation? What would that be?

Chief Change Officer

#92 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part One

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Yep, enabler. I really like this word. Some of the best leaders I've worked with and for over years, they really try to enable my success even before I believe in it. They will say, just do it. I have confidence in you. I'll help you with that. I'll make you a success. That's what I call enablement leadership. That is very empowering.

Chief Change Officer

#92 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part One

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If I had to capture Mary's journey in just two words, it would be beyond boundaries. We are our worst enemies, scared of failure or what others might think. But in Mary's case, instead of being paralyzed by the weight of her background as a well-educated musician, a mantle that could have been seen as baggage in her new arena. She chose to reinvent herself. This wasn't about giving up.

Chief Change Officer

#92 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part One

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I like that term, mini-CEO. You and Carson, the official co-CEO of Radio Flight, you got a lot of mini-CEOs on their own in their own space. They all have their own potential to grow, if I can summarize this way.

Chief Change Officer

#92 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part One

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Other than sales, business, and tech, I know you are a passionate champion in driving diversity issues forward. especially with respect to women and LGBT communities. Tell us a bit more about your work there.

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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Yeah, I think this tolerance for failure is very important. It's not something non-athletes are typically trained for. Speaking of non-athletes, this might be a good point for us to step back and look at the bigger picture. Earlier, you mentioned starting your business around the COVID period when everyone was stuck at home and started developing different perspectives on their careers and lives.

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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Now, we are back to normal. But the world has changed and is still changing with technology and other moving factors. A lot of uncertainties with layoffs, corporate downsizing, inflation, etc. In this kind of environment, you probably get a lot of inquiries from regular people about whether franchising could be the next chapter of their lives. So I have two related questions for you.

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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First, for non-athletes listening who may not have the athletic background, what advice would you give them for making this decision? What factors should they consider? Second, Given the uncertainties in the economy and other factors, when people want to start a new chapter in their lives, they feel the urge, the pressure to do so quickly, which comes with risks.

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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James, you are a nice, incredible person, but there could be others in your business who are not as trustworthy as you. So once these regular people decide to move into this new world of franchising, how can they be smarter about figuring out who to work with and what kind of business to get into?

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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So I have great respect for franchising as a business model that can positively transform lives. Let's discover how James has used franchising for the greater good for both athletes and everyday people.

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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So a lot of due diligence is needed, really hands-on due diligence, before jumping into investing a chunk of money. It's not just the financial investment, also the time and hope you're putting into potentially creating something that could be generationally relevant for your children and yourself in the future, whether you are in your pre-retirement or retirement life. So much stick on hand.

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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To wrap up our interview, I was wondering, James, when you look back at helping both athletes and non-athletes, what's the most fulfilling impact you've found yourself making in this business? Of course, building a successful business is important, but I'm curious about the impact you're most proud of in these four years.

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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Great. Thank you so much, James. Thanks for your time and all the insights. Like any other major change in life, career changes, including franchising, can be incredibly fulfilling. It is a rewarding journey, not just for you as the facilitator, but for both sides of the business equation. I hope that every listen to this show feels inspired.

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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If you're considering franchising, talk to James or other credible experts and do thorough due diligence about the business and about yourself. is a big decision, but it can be a worthwhile one.

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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When you look back at these examples where you acted as the advisor and matchmaker, helping them figure out the plans and goals, what are the three qualities that stand out in these successful individuals? These qualities could be skill, mindsets, psychological traits, or something related to the sports they play.

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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Can you name some key qualities that are common and contribute to success in franchising for these athletes?

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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Sure. Leadership quality, of course, being a strong team player and having a risk-taking mindset matters. In fact, leadership has many elements, but basically it's about being a team player, a risk taker, and being coachable. In sports, they always have coaches. When you talk about coaching, it reminds me of the scenario in venture and entrepreneurship, especially in tech ventures.

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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In the past, when I talked to investors, or venture capitalists. I asked them what kind of entrepreneurs or founders you'd like to invest in or admire. One quality they mentioned was being coachable. They explained that some founders might be very smart and passionate, but if they are not receptive to coaching, is a problem.

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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These founders may resist advice, fail to learn from mistakes, and ignore experienced voices. This is what investors mean by being coachable. I can totally relate to that when you mentioned the coachability of athletes.

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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James runs a unique franchise consulting business, primarily serving retired athletes from the NBA and NFL who are starting new chapters in their lives as franchisees. He also helps regular people with their franchise businesses. James believes that using his expertise in franchising to change lives and livelihoods of families and future generations is a dream come true endeavor.

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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Would you say ego could be a risk for athletes? What other qualities should athletes watch out for? Looking at the flip side, what traits could counteract success in franchising and leadership?

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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Yeah, I can tell from your explanation that when athletes transition into the business world, whether as franchisees or stand-alone entrepreneurs, ego can be a risk. But beyond ego is also about figuring out what kind of risks they want to take and what costs they are willing to incur. By costs, I don't just mean money, but also learning curves and other challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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To me, franchising is a more controllable type of business venture because like you said, the system is established, risks are calculatable, and there is a track record. In contrast, starting a new business from scratch is riskier. If you are a creative type of athlete, you might want to start something on your own from the ground up. In that case, are you ready to take that kind of risk?

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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Are you ready to step up and make the best use of your leadership skills? Different personalities and risk tolerance levels come into play during this transition. Let me play devil's advocate for a moment. While you argue that the transition from sportsmanship to franchise leadership has many similarities and seems like a perfect fit, there are hidden areas to consider.

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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In sports world, everything is clear-cut and measurable. For example, in swimming, one of my favorite sports. You know who wins the gold medal because it's the person who finishes the fastest. The timing technology is sophisticated and precise, leaving no ambiguity.

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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In the business world, however, while we have financial goals and key performance indicators, there are many hidden risks and ambiguities, especially when dealing with people, partners, and employees. Athletes are trained in controlled environments. But when they move into less controlled business environments, even within franchising, they face uncertainties.

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today at our studio, We welcome James Hilofsky from Riverside in Southern California.

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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I haven't been a franchisee or franchisor myself, but I do have experience with the franchise business. Many years ago, when my parents immigrated to Canada with zero local experience and connections, they ventured into franchising to make a living. Despite the hardships, using franchising as a means to fulfill the dream of becoming immersed and settled in the community was life-changing.

Chief Change Officer

#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two

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How do you help athletes make this transition? Does it involve mindset shifts, education, or more coaching? What do you think?

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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I like what you said about identity is so true. Many of us, whether we realize it or not, we are in some kind of identity crisis. You see it all the time. People giving themselves titles like CEO when they've just started a venture. or crafting these polished personal brands on social media that don't always align with their real actions or true values.

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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It's like they're trying to create this facade, but underneath, they've lost the direction. They are part of a herd mentality. whether it's in their career or even in knowing who they are. And that ties directly to resilience, like you said. It's about holding on to something real, something solid. It's not just about revenue, growth percentages, and fleshy titles.

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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It's about asking, what have I learned? Who have I met? How have I grown? So with that in mind, let's talk about your venture, Tiger Hall. Tell us as if we know nothing about it. What's the story behind this company? What problem are you solving? Who are you solving it for? And how are you tackling it?

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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I'm so happy to be here. Nelly and I share at least one thing in common, which is extensive experience in Asia. Originally from Europe, Nelly spent a significant amount of time in Singapore and still maintains strong connections with clients and contacts in Asia. Now, she's based in the US, bringing together a wealth of cross-cultural experiences.

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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So you're running a tech platform, a software?

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm joined by Nellie Wotoff, someone I'd like to call the chief change officer behind Change Leaders.

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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In part two tomorrow, Nellie will continue sharing her story of starting Tiger Hall, how she navigates the cultural differences across three regions, and why most change initiatives fail, and how to set up for success. If you've ever struggled with change, whether in your career, company, or life, this series is for you. Come back and join us tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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Before we dive into those experiences and insights, Nellie, let's start with your story. Not the typical job interview introduction, but a deeper dive into your journey. Where are you originally from? What brought you to Asia? How did those experiences lead you to move to LA and take on the work you are doing now? Let's begin there.

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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Two weeks ago, I interviewed a guest who described himself as a change addict. That phrase stuck with me. When you mentioned being a risk taker and not following a standard playbook, choosing to carve your own path, it reminded me of that mindset. It also explains why you do what you do now, which we'll dive into shortly. You and I are not the type to settle in a comfort zone

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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When everything seems calm and everyone around us says, why change? Everything is just fine. For us, it's not about comfort. It's about growth, progress, and doing things differently, better. While others may not fully understand, we see opportunities where they don't. and we create our own paths forward. That's why I come up with the term called growth progressive.

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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I call my show a space designed for growth progressives. People stay in their comfort zones, still seek growth, but they follow a traditional framework, extended playbook. Those I call growth conventionalists. But people like us, we push boundaries. We explore the uncharted, take risks and figure things out as we go. That's what being a growth progressive is all about.

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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Would you see yourself that way?

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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You describe yourselves as adventurous, rustic, gross, progressive, someone who doesn't follow the standard playbook. Before starting Tiger Hall, you worked in headhunting. Can you tell us more about your experience in that world?

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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Were there any pivotal moments, maybe a major change, a bold transition, or a risk you took that shaped your journey or influenced your decision to build something entirely your own?

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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Originally from Europe, she spent years in Asia, especially in Singapore, working across cultures. Now based in US, Nellie is the founder and CEO of Tiger Hall, a tech-driven platform helping organizations navigate change more effectively. This is part one of a two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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You described the fast-paced nature of your work. Those 7 to 11 days filled with constant demands. I can feel the drive and dedication you had during that time. I can relate to that, having been in a similar environment during my corporate days at Standard & Poor's. Back then, covering the Asia region meant working 9 to 12th. Not kidding, even on weekends.

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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But like you, I found this fast pace and creative problem solving extremely fulfilling. It wasn't just hard work. It was engaging and rewarding. But with that level of immersion comes stress. sometimes the kind that can weigh you down. In today's world, resilience has become almost a necessity. In your case, how did you build resilience to stay focused and keep moving forward?

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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Whether in your personal or professional life, What approach or practice help you push through tough times and maintain balance?

Chief Change Officer

#275 Change Management Without the Migraine: Nellie Wartoft’s Global Fix — Part One

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In these episodes, we'll dive into navigating cultural differences across three regions, why most change initiatives fail, and how to set up for success. If you've ever struggled with change, whether in your career, company, or life, this series is for you. Let's get started. Nellie, good afternoon to you in Los Angeles. Welcome to the show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Thank you.

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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He's the author of Living a Values-Based Life and the creator of the leadership model called Excellent Decisions. In this two-part series, we'll dive into what values really mean, why they matter for leading fulfilling careers and lives, and why figuring out our values can be challenging. We'll also explore how to make our values visible and sustainable in a world that's constantly changing.

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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Robert, we've got a lot of good stuff today in our interview. Any final message you'd like to share with the audience?

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. A few years ago, I joined a growing venture as the chief people officer. It lasted just six weeks.

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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I like your quote. Without implementation is just a nice conversation. Thank you so much, Robert.

Chief Change Officer

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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If you feel stuck in your current workplace, it's not necessarily your fault. Often, it's just a misalignment of values. Don't bend your values to fit in. Instead, find a place and a tribe whose values resonate with yours. That's where true happiness and success lie. Let's dive in. My follow-up question is about what happens after we identify our values.

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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Even if we genuinely figure out and believe in them, whatever those values are, like honesty, humanity, the next step is the hardest, practicing them consistently. How do you advise your clients to implement their values in daily life? For businesses, this could be challenging, but equally difficult for individuals. Even with the best intentions, staying mindful and consistent isn't easy.

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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How do you suggest we monitor and sustain our actions to align with our values? Talk is cheap. I believe talk and talk and walk the walk matters when it comes to implementation of values. If I were your client asking, we've identified my values. What do I do next? How would you guide me?

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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To that CEO, I may have seemed incompetent, but I knew exactly why I had to leave so quickly. It was a major clash of values. I believe in being true and ethical in both words and deeds, while he thrived on a man-made facade of showmanship and hypocrisy. Knowing my values made the decision clear. This experience ties directly to today's guest. Robert Mercier.

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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Do values change over time with new experiences and perspectives?

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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As you were sharing, I couldn't help but think It's not just about the different stages of our lives or the roles we play. For example, I transitioned from corporate life to entrepreneurship, moving from a world of abundant resources to one where I'm spending my own money testing ideas and navigating uncertainties. Big changes like these influence our values.

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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Now, one could argue that if I value honesty, it should stay constant regardless of my circumstances. True, but even the interpretation or perception of honesty evolves over time. As I play new roles and build up different experiences, I found that how I uphold honesty adapts For example, with certain people or situations, I might feel the need to stand firm in my values.

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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But with others, especially those who don't operate, honestly, I might decide it's not worth engaging or holding them to the same standard. It's not about abandoning my value. but recognizing when and how to apply it. This evolution, I think, speaks to how our brains collect data and adjust over time. Sometimes is a cautious recalibration.

Chief Change Officer

#274 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part Two

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Other times is our minds engaging in what I call self-justification. helping us rationalize our actions in ways that align with what we want to believe. So when values may shift, the interpretation and application of those values change as we grow and learn.

Chief Change Officer

#133 Food52 CEO Erika Ayers Badan: No One Cares About Your Career - Part One

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Maybe one day you could become like Ray Dalio, one of the billionaire investors in the US. After retiring, he's turned his life's work and lessons into a 600-page book called Principles. I'm sure you've heard of it. He even collaborated with professors to develop courses around content.

Chief Change Officer

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Maybe one day you could go down a similar path, turning no one cares about your career into something more, perhaps a teaching platform or a series of courses to help people navigate the modern workplace. What do you think about taking that approach?

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So I started skimming through the first few chapters of your book. As you mentioned, it has a more conversational tone, but it's also packed with real life stories. Tell us more about how your book stands out from other business or career oriented books.

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In fact, she's gathered so many lessons along the way that she decided to write her first book titled, No One Cares About Your Career. When I saw that title, I knew I had to develop a two-part series featuring Erica. Why does this title hit so hard? Because it's the truth. I've learned it the hard way myself, through the twists and turns of my own career.

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So it's like a friend talking to you?

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In the early part of the book, I noticed you actually list out who would be the readers for this book. You lay out all the criteria. And as I read through them, I thought, oh, I fit this, I fit that. So I know this book is for me. I check off, if not all, at least 9 out of 10 of those points. Then you also make clear who the book is not for with a list of about 20 things.

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I was relieved because I wasn't any of those. But I would say for sure this book is for people who desire a change at work and understand that change at work is a gateway to changing their life. That's actually the first criterion you list. That's exactly right. For those who like to follow rules and are comfortable following rules, this book is not for you, unfortunately.

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Inside, there are a lot, a lot of different stories, and one specific story stands out to me is about your interview with a few major decision-makers when you were trying to get a job, the CEO job, at Barstool. I found it very, very interesting, and I'm mostly honest. I can definitely relate to your point about how this book is different from others because you tell the truth about what happened.

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At that time, you mentioned you were not sure about the interview's outcome and even thought you did not do well. Then one of those decision makers you spoke with said, I think we could give it a try, although I'm not sure if you can do it. It's so raw and unfiltered. That's what I appreciate. This is why I'm really enjoying the book and I plan to finish it soon. That's great.

Chief Change Officer

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There are surely a lot of nuggets of wisdom in the book. And one that stands out to me is when you highlight five simple things for anyone to succeed at work. Who you are, what you have to offer, how you show up, what you do with your time, and how much you care. Five core things. Erica, could you briefly walk us through why you chose these five?

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I'm excited that Erica has captured this reality so perfectly, and I'm grateful she is saying it out loud, helping others who feel stuck in their careers confront the truth and break free from the baggage holding them back. In this episode, We'll dive into the book, why she wrote it, why now, and why this title.

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After so many years of working across different industry, in different countries and eventually landing leadership roles and become a CEO who turned a company around. How did you distill all those learnings into these five simple points? And how can we as individuals apply them to move forward in our own careers?

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I found that in my life and in the lives of many successful people I know, Their career decisions, how they present themselves, and what they care about often link back to their past. Whether it's their family upbringing, early experiences, or even the history of their parents or grandparents, these become powerful force that shape who they become.

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Could you share a bit more about your younger years? Maybe something from your family and life or childhood that nurtured your business instincts despite not going to business school? Was this something from your past that helped shape the person you are today? Motivated, ambitious, successful, yet always true to yourself?

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In the next episode, Erica will open up about her life and career experiences. her upbringing, her parents, her leadership approach, and even her thoughts on toxic work cultures. And here's something you won't hear in other interviews. What career advice would she give her own two children who are in middle school, especially in this rapidly changing workplace? Until next time, take care.

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Plus, we'll unpack some key nuggets of wisdom, including five simple things anyone can do to succeed at work. In the next episode, Erica will open up about her life and career experiences, her upbringing, her parents, her leadership approach, and even her thoughts on toxic work cultures. And here's something you won't hear in other interviews.

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What career advice would Erica give her own two middle school children, given we are in such a rapidly changing workplace? That's our in-depth look at Erica Ayers-Barden. Let's dive right in. Welcome, Erica. Thanks for being here. Thank you, Vince. I'm excited to be here. Erica, let's start with a bit of your career history. Okay, great, Vince.

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So, initially, you planned to go to law school, or perhaps it was more of an expectation from your parents. But in the end, you chose a different path. What led you to that decision?

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Now it's time to dive into your book. I have to confess to the audience When Erica and her team reached out to me about doing this interview, I immediately said yes, like no hesitation at all. Why? What drew me in so quickly was the title of the book, which is No One Cares About Your Career. This is punchy title.

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And given Erica's expertise in marketing, I'm not surprised she came up with something so catchy. But it's not just about the phrase. It's about those five words. They resonate with me 200%. Seriously, I learned this truth a hard way in my own journey. is one of life's realities. And once I understood it, I accepted it and even embraced it. Erica, you and I were in a studio together right now.

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I would give you a hug or at least a solid high five for speaking my mind so perfectly. I'll take a hug, Vince. Thank you. Thank you. One day when I come to the States and interview you in person, let's do that. Anyway, back to the book title. I'm curious, how did you come up with No One Cares About Your Career as the title? Was it something you had in mind from the start of your writing process?

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Before her time at Food52, Erica was the first ever CEO of Barstool Sports, and her career spans across media, marketing, and tech, with roles at companies like Fidelity Investments, Microsoft, AOL, and Yahoo. But let me be clear, this isn't about interviewing someone with big titles. On my show, I bring on guests who are willing to share real life stories. And Erica has no shortage of those.

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Or did it come up later? Maybe as a result of collaboration with your publisher or editor?

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Yeah, I read this chapter specifically. We'll come back to this in a minute. The book, what inspired you to write it in the very first place?

Chief Change Officer

#133 Food52 CEO Erika Ayers Badan: No One Cares About Your Career - Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's episode is a special one for me. I'm joined by none other than Erica Ayers Bodden, the current CEO of Food52, a leading innovator in the food, cooking, and home space.

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With the pandemic, everyone was stuck at home and you used a podcast to keep your team engaged instead of just sending long emails. It helped keep everyone active and connected Soon, more people outside your firm started paying attention, sending in career-related questions, which you began answering. Eventually, it led you to think, why not put all of this into a book?

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A way to reach a wider audience and share your experiences and thoughts more broadly. Does that sound like a fair summary of your journey?

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I really like the circle metaphor. I think that captures the main idea of your book as well. So this is really my last question for our interview. Your book is called Unstuck, a smart guide to a purposeful career. What are some of the unsmart things people tend to do when they feel stuck

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Let's dig into the boat now. You structure it into three acts. Act one, alignment. Act two, career redesign. And act three, transformation. First, why did you choose these three as the core structure? Why start with alignment? Why follow that with career redesign and then end with transformation?

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One last thing I want to say about humility and support. Whether it's a coach, a group of like-minded people, or even just one person who gets it, it matters so much. Actually, you probably don't know this. None of my guests do. Each of you is part of my support system. Every time I talk to a guest from somewhere in the world, it reminds me that I'm doing the right thing with the podcast.

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There are moments, many moments, when I doubt myself. Of course, we all do. But these conversations with real people who care about change, they ground me. They remind me this is real, this work matters. So yes, support systems are vital.

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That might mean hiring a coach, just like hiring a trainer when you go to the gym, or leaning on your family or siblings or friends, assuming they're all trustworthy and available, or simply having conversations with people who share your vision and feelings. That's how we stay afloat. That's how we keep going when things get messy or uncertain. And like you said, failure isn't part of the manual.

Chief Change Officer

#402 Helen Hanison: Success Isn’t Always Success — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. What happens when your shiny successful career starts to feel like a trap? Helen Henderson has the answer. She went from board level PR executive to career coach.

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Because if we keep moving, learning, adapting, we don't fail. We figure it out. That to me is the key.

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No, I'm serious. Every single one of you, I mean it. Each week, I get emails from different people saying, Hey, I'd love to be on your show. Hey, I'd love to be on your show. And I talk to every one of them. For me, even if it turns out they are not the right fit for the podcast, I still make a new connection. And most of the time, they've already checked out my work before reaching out.

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So we are already aligned on some level, and that's how we keep the engine moving. Failure? Not an option. Stopping, also not an option.

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Before we conclude, is there anything I haven't asked that you would like to share?

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And second, for each of these acts, what are the key takeaways or core messages you would want readers to walk away with?

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And that ends our two-part series with Helen Henderson. From breaking down limiting beliefs to mapping out purposeful action, Helen's approach flips the usual career advice on its head. Redesigning your work life isn't about powering through. It's about pausing, rethinking, and making moves that actually match who you are now.

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Hopefully, you're walking away with fresh clarity and maybe even your own hope map. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

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Yes. For this podcast, I always say it's about walk the walk, talk the talk leadership. I like to talk to guests. who have gone through real change themselves, not just sharing advice, but lived experience. That's the kind of value I want to bring here. Now, when I skimmed through your book, one word really stood out, which is hope map. What is it? Can you walk us through the idea?

Chief Change Officer

#402 Helen Hanison: Success Isn’t Always Success — Part Two

after realizing that the ladder she was climbing was leaning on the wrong wall. In this two-part series, Helen shares how she hit pause, got unstuck, and built a career that actually fits. We'll talk about career detour, tough choices, and why midlife isn't a crisis. is a chance to redesign. If your job looks great on paper but feels like sandpaper, this one is for you. Let's get into it.

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Yeah, as you were explaining, it reminded me of something a career coach asked me years ago. He said, Vince, what would you do if you couldn't fail? I remember being younger and not really knowing how to answer that question. But it stuck with me. Change is always hard. It comes with risk, uncertainty, setbacks. And like you said, once you've made the decision, don't stop. Think ahead.

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Map out the possible risks. Anticipate the bumps. I study finance, so I tend to look at everything through that lens. In finance, we calculate risks, reprice them, we build models to manage them. But in life, most risks cannot be measured on a spreadsheet. So yeah, sometimes you have to take a step forward even when you are unsure. And if one path doesn't work out, it's not the end.

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You still got options. Hitting a wall doesn't mean full stop. That's one of the biggest takeaways I've gotten from our conversation today.

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I really like the swimming pool analogy because I enjoy swimming myself. I get it. Sometimes you just need to pause, catch your breath. You're tired and you need a break. But after the rest, you get your energy back. You keep moving. You keep breathing. Even when your head underwater, there's a rhythm to it.

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We've overran a bit, but I have one or two more quick questions because they tie right into this idea of transformation. You mentioned earlier something that stuck with me, which is don't get stuck in the past or the present. Could you say more about what you mean by that?

Chief Change Officer

#341 Jennifer Selby Long: Politics, Power, and the Choice to Stay or Go

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At the end of the day, it's about knowing yourselves and being intentional in choosing the workplace culture that fits your character and values. If you thrive in office politics and it energizes you, a politically charged environment might suit you. But if that's not who you are, staying in such an environment could lead to frustration, burnout, disengagement, and lower productivity.

Chief Change Officer

#341 Jennifer Selby Long: Politics, Power, and the Choice to Stay or Go

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is an old friend of our show, Jennifer Selby Long. Jennifer was with us in season three, episode seven and eight.

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For those feeling stuck, Reflect on whether you can adapt without compromising your values. Ask yourself, does this place, does this environment truly support who I am and how I work best? If the answer is no, it might be time to move on to a place that aligns better with your strengths. It allows you to grow. Change isn't just about leaving. It's about finding the right fit to thrive.

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An environment that is so vested in office politics only to find themselves in a similar situation at the new job is like running away from one problem only to land in another. that led us into a bordered discussion on toxic cultures and even the role office politics play in these dynamics.

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Until next time, take care.

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#341 Jennifer Selby Long: Politics, Power, and the Choice to Stay or Go

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We also touched on how some leaders or managers might unknowingly struggle with their personality disorders, which can contribute to these environments. Today, we are honing in on office politics specifically. Let's be real, who hasn't faced them? Whether it's subtle power struggles or outright maneuvering is something everyone has encountered.

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Yet, when I type office politics into Google, I don't find as much as I expected. Maybe the term isn't as trendy, but that doesn't mean the problem isn't real or common. People might call it power dynamics, workplace dynamics, but the underlying issue is universal. Do you think having a hybrid work model might actually help manage office politics? Or does it make things worse?

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#341 Jennifer Selby Long: Politics, Power, and the Choice to Stay or Go

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On one hand, with less in-person interaction, people aren't constantly grouped together, which might reduce some of the tension that can build in close quarters. It creates a bit of balance. You're not always in the office, so those dynamics don't dominate your entire day. But on the other hand, there's the behind-the-scenes factor.

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Those who want to curry favor with the boss could still do it privately in ways others might not even notice. is a different kind of politicking that could still cause issues, just less visibly. I imagine researchers are already looking into this shift and its impact on workplace dynamics. What's your take on how hybrid or remote work influences office politics? Does it shift the balance?

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Or do you think human nature finds a way to keep the same patterns alive just in new formats?

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#341 Jennifer Selby Long: Politics, Power, and the Choice to Stay or Go

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When I worked in corporate, I collaborated with people across different locations. Hong Kong, London, Singapore, New York, Australia, all over the place. Remote collaboration was the norm for me, even without smartphones at the time. While the system's words moved, politics was always present, whether locally or at the headquarters.

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#341 Jennifer Selby Long: Politics, Power, and the Choice to Stay or Go

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In the last 30 years, Jennifer has been helping tech leaders navigate the waves of tech evolution, leading and managing organizational change. But leaders can't successfully drive organizational change without being a master of their own personal transformation. So last time, Jennifer and I looked into the natural process of personal change.

Chief Change Officer

#341 Jennifer Selby Long: Politics, Power, and the Choice to Stay or Go

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Decisions made at headquarters, often driven by power dynamics, would ripple out and affect us in Asia Pacific Regional Office. You brought up the idea of some people being immune to politically charged environments. But I've also observed an other type, those who thrive in them. And here's where it gets frustrating.

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#341 Jennifer Selby Long: Politics, Power, and the Choice to Stay or Go

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In many organizations, it's not the most skilled or high-performing employees who stay. often is those who navigate all this politics best. I've seen this firsthand. Imagine you have three people, A, B, and C. A and B are top performers, far better at their jobs than C. But somehow it's C who sticks around while A and B either leave for better opportunities or are squeezed out.

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#341 Jennifer Selby Long: Politics, Power, and the Choice to Stay or Go

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Sometimes bosses prefer it that way because they don't want to feel threatened. Leaders may say they want to hire people smarter than them to push the organization forward But in reality, jealousy, ego, and sense of insecurity often get in the way. A boss might think, why should I keep someone who doesn't follow my orders, even if they are brilliant?

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#341 Jennifer Selby Long: Politics, Power, and the Choice to Stay or Go

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Even when colleagues or clients sing the praises of these high performers, it can backfire. A boss who feels overshadowed might quietly engineer a way to push them out. The result? Talented, hardworking people leave feeling disillusioned and disengaged, while less capable colleagues remain. It's no wonder we hear terms like burnout or disengagement tossed around.

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But at its core, it comes down to a lack of respect and recognition for those who truly contribute. This cycle is what I have observed and even experienced myself. Those who stay aren't always the best performers. They are often just the best at playing the game. Jennifer, what's your perspective on this dynamic? How do we address this to create fairer and more effective workplaces?

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#341 Jennifer Selby Long: Politics, Power, and the Choice to Stay or Go

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Office politics, as its core, isn't inherently good or bad. It is simply a reflection of human nature in group dynamics. When people come together to work towards a goal, there's always an underlying assumption that everyone is aligned. But in reality, goals often clash. When priorities conflict, tensions arise.

Chief Change Officer

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people start using alternative methods to advance their own objectives and agenda at the expense of others. Sometimes, this is when things like back-stepping, bad-mouthing, or other manipulative behaviors emerge. It's not the politics itself that's the issue, but how it manifests. Pursuing individual agendas can erode trust and create a toxic environment. It's a cycle.

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#341 Jennifer Selby Long: Politics, Power, and the Choice to Stay or Go

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We also talked about how to manage self-doubt and self-sabotage. Jennifer, welcome back to Chief Change Officer. At the end of our last conversation, we talked about something that really resonates with everybody. How some people, when making career moves, leave a toxic boss or a harmful culture or

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One person's actions trigger another's defense mechanism. And before you know it, the focus shifts from collaboration to competition. Understanding this dynamic is key to addressing it. The question becomes, how do we redirect these energies back towards shared goals and healthier workplace relationships?

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#341 Jennifer Selby Long: Politics, Power, and the Choice to Stay or Go

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Could you elaborate on the last point you just made?

Chief Change Officer

#340 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Eye-Roll

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is an old friend of our show, Jennifer Selby Long. Jennifer was with us in season three, episode seven and eight.

Chief Change Officer

#340 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Eye-Roll

1283.203

Do you think having a hybrid work model might actually help manage office politics? Or does it make things worse? On one hand, with less in-person interaction, people aren't constantly grouped together, which might reduce some of the tension that can build in close quarters. it creates a bit of balance. You're not always in the office, so those dynamics don't dominate your entire day.

Chief Change Officer

#340 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Eye-Roll

132.748

An environment that is so vested in office politics only to find themselves in a similar situation at the new job is like running away from one problem only to land in another. that led us into a bordered discussion on toxic cultures and even the role office politics play in these dynamics.

Chief Change Officer

#340 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Eye-Roll

1325.6

But on the other hand, there's the behind-the-scenes factor. Those who want to curry favor with the boss could still do it privately in ways others might not even notice. is a different kind of politicking that could still cause issues, just less visibly. I imagine researchers are already looking into this shift and its impact on workplace dynamics.

Chief Change Officer

#340 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Eye-Roll

1360.324

What's your take on how hybrid or remote work influences office politics? Does it shift the balance? Or do you think human nature finds a way to keep the same patterns alive just in new formats?

Chief Change Officer

#340 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Eye-Roll

1475.475

Just now, we explored the root causes of office politics, why some thrive while others struggle, and how leadership behaviors often shape these dynamics. Tomorrow, in our next episode, we'll continue our series on office politics.

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#340 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Eye-Roll

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If you've ever wondered why the smartest or hottest working people aren't always the ones who succeed, or why the best ideas don't always win, or why politics seem unavoidable. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media.

Chief Change Officer

#340 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Eye-Roll

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I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#340 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Eye-Roll

164.766

We also touched on how some leaders or managers might unknowingly struggle with their personality disorders, which can contribute to these environments. Today, we are honing in on office politics specifically. Let's be real, who hasn't faced them? Whether it's subtle power struggles or outright maneuvering is something everyone has encountered.

Chief Change Officer

#340 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Eye-Roll

200.915

Yet, when I type office politics into Google, I don't find as much as I expected. Maybe the term isn't as trendy, but that doesn't mean the problem isn't real or common. People might call it power dynamics, workplace dynamics, but the underlying issue is universal. So Jennifer, let's start with a two-part question. In your view, why do office politics exist?

Chief Change Officer

#340 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Eye-Roll

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What factors contribute to the crisis in the modern workplace?

Chief Change Officer

#340 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Eye-Roll

54.509

In the last 30 years, Jennifer has been helping tech leaders navigate the waves of tech evolution, leading and managing organizational change. But leaders can't successfully drive organizational change without being a master of their own personal transformation. So last time, Jennifer and I looked into the natural process of personal change.

Chief Change Officer

#340 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Eye-Roll

633.526

Just the other week, I sat in a coffee shop. I overheard several groups dissecting what had gone wrong in their respective offices. It made me think, maybe I should bring this show to a coffee shop. Imagine all the real, raw discussions that could spark these lunch hours and coffee shop conversations. I call them unscripted water cooler moments where the true pulse of the office comes alive.

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#340 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Eye-Roll

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It's where colleagues vent their frustrations, share unfiltered truths about the team, the boss, and all the office politics in play. now about leaders who treat the workplace like a chessboard, where employees are nothing more than pawns, moved or discarded depending on their usefulness. It's not so much about corruption as it is about cold, calculated strategy.

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#340 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Eye-Roll

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For these leaders, it's not personal. It's strictly business. They justify their actions in the name of efficiency or the bottom line, if someone quits, they see it as an opportunity to reduce head count, not a problem to solve. They don't lose sleep over being called toxic. What's more, some leaders intentionally create competitive cutthroat environments.

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#340 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Eye-Roll

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They think pitting people against each other will drive results. For employees, it often means distrust and endless office politics. That kind of culture impacts morale, collaboration, and long-term success. Jennifer Have you worked with clients who purposely planned the seats of office politics as part of the management strategy? As part of the management strategy?

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#340 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Eye-Roll

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Or have you advised clients who have to navigate such politically charged environments? How do you help someone survive and even thrive in a culture that is shaped so intentionally and sometimes ruthlessly by leadership?

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#340 Jennifer Selby Long: Office Politics Without the Eye-Roll

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We also talked about how to manage self-doubt and self-sabotage. Jennifer, welcome back to Chief Change Officer. Thank you for having me. I so appreciate it, Vin. At the end of our last conversation, we talked about something that really resonates with everybody. How some people, when making career moves, leave a toxic boss or a harmful culture or

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#339 Jennifer Selby Long: Gen X Wisdom for Saboteur Survival

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That reminded me of an other model often applied to organizations from the well-known organizational psychologist, Kurt Lewin. I've brought this up in season one, episode two, about Tim Pei-Ling's own transformation. His model is simple but powerful. There's the first stage, freeze, where you pause and assess. Then comes change, where you go through the transformation.

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#339 Jennifer Selby Long: Gen X Wisdom for Saboteur Survival

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In the last episode, we talked about the natural process of personal change. We also touched on self-doubt and self-sabotage. In this episode, we'll dive deeper. We'll discuss how neuroscience can help manage self-sabotage We'll explore how to make career moves that work in your favor instead of just jumping from one bad situation to another.

Chief Change Officer

#339 Jennifer Selby Long: Gen X Wisdom for Saboteur Survival

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Finally, there's unfreeze, where you solidify your new identity or the new you. So it's like freeze, change, and unfreeze. A lot of business school professors reference this model for organizational change. Are you familiar with this?

Chief Change Officer

#339 Jennifer Selby Long: Gen X Wisdom for Saboteur Survival

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In our last episode, we sat down with Jennifer Selby Long.

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#339 Jennifer Selby Long: Gen X Wisdom for Saboteur Survival

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Would you say that if someone gets stuck in the freeze phase but eventually manages to unfreeze themselves, it's a win? How would you personally define a successful change or a win when it comes to going through transformation?

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#339 Jennifer Selby Long: Gen X Wisdom for Saboteur Survival

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So far, throughout our interview, we've focused a lot on how you help leaders drive, lead, and manage change within the teams and organizations. Many of our listeners might be change leaders or change managers in their own spaces or organizations. Yet, the other group of people listening might be experiencing changes themselves. They could be considering making a change.

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#339 Jennifer Selby Long: Gen X Wisdom for Saboteur Survival

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or they may be forced to make a change because they've left their previous employer. You mentioned to me before that a situation often arises when people make a big career leap, sometimes wanting to escape workplace politics or ineffective boss. They might land a new job with similar terms, only to find themselves working for another ineffective boss.

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#339 Jennifer Selby Long: Gen X Wisdom for Saboteur Survival

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The goal, the real goal, is to make a change for the better. But these people end up jumping from one lousy situation to another. I know you got some really good insights about that, about how people should try to manage the situation differently. Even if they eventually decide to change jobs, they could and they should aim for a truly better outcome.

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#339 Jennifer Selby Long: Gen X Wisdom for Saboteur Survival

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Could you share with us some common mistakes people make when dealing with ineffective boss and how they might better handle the situation in order to set themselves up for more positive change.

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#339 Jennifer Selby Long: Gen X Wisdom for Saboteur Survival

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Thank you.

Chief Change Officer

#339 Jennifer Selby Long: Gen X Wisdom for Saboteur Survival

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Yes, absolutely. There's still so much to unpack. And not just when it comes to dealing with a boss, but also navigating office politics. These dynamics aren't just about one-on-one relationships. There are other players involved too. Interestingly, some people avoid using the term politics when discussing office environments.

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#339 Jennifer Selby Long: Gen X Wisdom for Saboteur Survival

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In fact, if you search for office politics on Google or LinkedIn, you won't find as much conversation about it as you might expect. But in reality, whether you're in a large corporation or a small team, as long as you're working with people, there's an inherent level of politics at play. And these politics play a crucial role, especially when it comes to driving change.

Chief Change Officer

#339 Jennifer Selby Long: Gen X Wisdom for Saboteur Survival

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You mentioned how some of your clients, including senior leaders, face power struggles or have to navigate complex stakeholder relationships. Power dynamics come into play, and as they think about leaving a job or dealing with ineffective boss, they also have to consider the bigger political picture they're in.

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#339 Jennifer Selby Long: Gen X Wisdom for Saboteur Survival

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I feel like this is an element often overlooked in the discussion of change management and leadership. Could you share your thoughts or experiences in helping clients manage these risks? How do you support them in balancing personal and organizational change? while surviving navigating the politics that comes with it.

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#339 Jennifer Selby Long: Gen X Wisdom for Saboteur Survival

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How do we deal with judgment? Judging ourselves? Judging others? Honestly, this aspect of judgment has come up a lot for me. In fact, in the second episode of season three, in which I spoke to Benedict from France, he'd mentioned the importance of being kind or kinder to ourselves. Yet we often forget that. Yes. If a colleague or someone else makes a mistake, I would say, it's okay, let's fix it.

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#339 Jennifer Selby Long: Gen X Wisdom for Saboteur Survival

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She spent 30 years helping tech leaders navigate the ever-changing world of technology and lead organizational transformation. In recent years, her focus has been on cybersecurity, digital transformation, and user experience. but don't tune out if these areas don't apply to you. What Jennifer shares is relevant for anyone who wants to thrive in today's fast-paced world.

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#339 Jennifer Selby Long: Gen X Wisdom for Saboteur Survival

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No need to blame, just move forward. But when I make the mistake, what do I do? Yes, I fixed. But at the same time, I start blaming myself. I think, why did I make this mistake? What's wrong with me? I become harsh on myself, much harsher than I am with others. In those moments, I realize I'm not loving myself enough.

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#339 Jennifer Selby Long: Gen X Wisdom for Saboteur Survival

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This constant self-judgment can be really detrimental if we don't learn to manage it properly. Don't you think?

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#339 Jennifer Selby Long: Gen X Wisdom for Saboteur Survival

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Stick with me for 30 minutes and you'll find something valuable in this conversation. This episode and the last one is all about guiding yourself through personal transformation. It's about stepping into your next opportunity. Leaders can't successfully drive organization change without first mastering their own personal growth.

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#339 Jennifer Selby Long: Gen X Wisdom for Saboteur Survival

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Through all these years, you've worked with so many different people, each with their own unique characters and situations. I'm curious, looking back, can you recall any cases where you feel you didn't succeed in helping a client navigate or take charge of a change? By failure, I don't necessarily mean they disengaged with you, but rather the impact you aimed to create.

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#339 Jennifer Selby Long: Gen X Wisdom for Saboteur Survival

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didn't work out as well as expected. Could you share one of those experiences? More importantly, what did you learn from it? Why do you think it was so challenging in that specific situation?

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#338 Jennifer Selby Long: Personal Change First, Tech Change Second

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A leader cannot successfully drive organizational change without first mastering their own personal transformation. So we'll dive into why understanding the natural process of personal change can help you fast-track your transformation.

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#338 Jennifer Selby Long: Personal Change First, Tech Change Second

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

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#338 Jennifer Selby Long: Personal Change First, Tech Change Second

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how to manage self-doubt, avoid sabotaging your own progress, and how to make career moves that truly work in your favor instead of simply running away from one undesirable situation to the next. Let's get started. Jennifer, tell us a bit about yourself. I know you've been in coaching for a long time. You specialize in coaching tech leaders manage and navigate change.

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#338 Jennifer Selby Long: Personal Change First, Tech Change Second

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As you were sharing, it brought back some personal memories for me, both in terms of personal change and organizational change I experienced during my time in the corporate world.

Chief Change Officer

#338 Jennifer Selby Long: Personal Change First, Tech Change Second

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You mentioned personal change, the do's and the don'ts, and I can see how those apply even to individuals making major transitions like leaving a corporate job to become an entrepreneur or starting a private practice, much like you did. Yes.

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#338 Jennifer Selby Long: Personal Change First, Tech Change Second

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As you mentioned the do's and don'ts in personal change, I can think of some specific examples like controlling your expenses while investing in your own new venture. It's important to generate hope, hold on to it, and get some quick wins. But what happens 12 or 18 months down the road? The process is challenging, especially when you're still building your practice. You are uncertain.

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#338 Jennifer Selby Long: Personal Change First, Tech Change Second

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And then you look at your friends, former classmates. They are getting promotions, landing new jobs as the big guys, the CEOs of big companies. And they seem to be doing so well. Meanwhile, you left a six-figure income to pursue something on your own, something unknown, something unproven, and you start questioning yourself. Self-doubt sneaks in, which can lead to what I call self-sabotage.

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#338 Jennifer Selby Long: Personal Change First, Tech Change Second

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Could you share your thoughts on this situation? It's something I've personally experienced and struggled with. It's not easy. I love to hear how you help your clients navigate this, whether they're facing personal change or dealing with external changes that they're part of but can't fully control. Rationally, they may want to move forward, but emotionally is a different story.

Chief Change Officer

#338 Jennifer Selby Long: Personal Change First, Tech Change Second

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Earlier, we talked about the natural personal process of change and touched on self-doubt and self-sabotage. In the next episode... We'll dive deeper into managing self-sabotage with the help of neuroscience and explore how to make career moves that truly work in your favor instead of just escaping one undesirable situation after another. Be sure to check back in the next 48 hours.

Chief Change Officer

#338 Jennifer Selby Long: Personal Change First, Tech Change Second

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The next episode will be ready for you. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

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#338 Jennifer Selby Long: Personal Change First, Tech Change Second

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Can you tell us more about that?

Chief Change Officer

#338 Jennifer Selby Long: Personal Change First, Tech Change Second

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Today, I'm sitting down with Jennifer Selby Long, who has spent the last 30 years helping tech leaders navigate the waves of tech evolution, leading and managing organizational change. In recent years, her focus has been on cybersecurity, digital transformation, and user experience. But don't tune out just yet. If you are not in those views,

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#338 Jennifer Selby Long: Personal Change First, Tech Change Second

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So basically, you are helping a leader who sits at the center of a complex situation. They may have senior people above them, perhaps a CEO reporting to a board of directors, or they may be the CEO themselves. Below them, they have a whole team of people, some more senior, some at operational or junior level.

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#338 Jennifer Selby Long: Personal Change First, Tech Change Second

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This leader has to engage, convince, and motivate all these people to buy into the change and act on it. But each of these stakeholders has their own agenda. and that's not even touching on the emotional aspects involved.

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#338 Jennifer Selby Long: Personal Change First, Tech Change Second

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So you are helping this person in the middle, managing everyone around them while also guiding them on a more personal level, helping them find peace and balance while navigating change. Is that a good summary of what you do now?

Chief Change Officer

#338 Jennifer Selby Long: Personal Change First, Tech Change Second

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Technology is such a huge and evolving field. I'm sure when you first started back in the 90s, as you said, the project found you. And now here we are in 2024 going into 2025, so much has changed in the tech space over the years. Could you be more specific about what areas of leadership you focus on today?

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#338 Jennifer Selby Long: Personal Change First, Tech Change Second

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And maybe educate us a bit on how this evolution in technology and leadership has played out over the years?

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#338 Jennifer Selby Long: Personal Change First, Tech Change Second

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Before we dive into your own experiences working with these leaders, sharing examples and stories, I'm curious, have you ever been coached yourself? Maybe through leadership training or personal coaching along the way? I'd love to hear about your experience as a learner, as a student being coached and how that experience has shaped or enhanced your abilities to help your clients today.

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#338 Jennifer Selby Long: Personal Change First, Tech Change Second

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What Jennifer shares is relevant to anyone looking to thrive in today's fast changing world. Give me 30 seconds and I guarantee you'll find something valuable in this conversation. This episode and the next is all about how to guide yourself through personal transformation and step into your next opportunity.

Chief Change Officer

#338 Jennifer Selby Long: Personal Change First, Tech Change Second

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Great. Now let's explore your experience coaching others. You have a lot of depth. And one of the key topics we discussed was the process you call the natural personal process of change. Could you walk us through what that is, the do's, the don'ts, and some of the dangerous myths around it? And if it helps, give us examples, show us how it works in practice.

Chief Change Officer

#262 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part Two

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After a year away from her consultancy, Erica returned with fresh purpose, balancing her career on a three-day work week, launching a podcast and expanding her reach to create a bigger impact. Yesterday, part one, Erica shared her career journey, the twist and the turns, and the accident that changed everything.

Chief Change Officer

#262 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#262 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm speaking with Erica Sosna, a fellow podcast host and the author of The Career Equation, who, like me, is passionate about careers.

Chief Change Officer

#262 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part Two

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Today, in part two, she'll share the hard-earned wisdom she gained from overcoming paralysis, starting a new chapter, shaping a path to personal and professional growth. Erica will also dive into the career equation she created and how we can all work towards becoming better versions of ourselves in our careers. Your experience and the journey are exceptional.

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#262 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part Two

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The challenges you faced, both physical and mental, are beyond what many of us could even imagine. I deeply applaud you for that resilience. As I listened, I wondered, now that you're looking back, and you call yourself exceptional, which I think is entirely fitting, what would you say is your superpower?

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#262 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part Two

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If you had to pinpoint exactly what it is that helps you sustain and succeed through all of those things, what would that be? Is it a deep-rooted faith? something within your career equation or another quality? What do you think that allowed you to endure all the pain and ultimately come back even stronger?

Chief Change Officer

#262 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part Two

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But what makes Erica's story unique is her remarkable journey of resilience, purpose, and transformation in 2022 a life-changing accident left her paralyzed facing months of recovery through immense pain and uncertainty erica fought her way back back to walking back to work and back to a renewed mission.

Chief Change Officer

#262 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part Two

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That's the lived experience that really matters. My podcast is about real, raw, lived experiences, not polished success stories. Now, I'd like to dive into your book, The Career Equation. I've skimmed through it myself and noticed you focus on helping employers better support the career growth of their employees.

Chief Change Officer

#262 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part Two

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Many career books are aimed at individuals taking charge of their own career paths, but you've chosen to speak directly to employers. Since we have a few minutes left, I think it would be great to web up with this. How do you help employers enhance the career experience with the teams?

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#262 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part Two

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What steps can they take to create an environment where employees feel not just more productive, but truly motivated and committed? This is a relevant question to many people out there feeling stuck in the workforce, looking for a way to feel more engaged and valued.

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#125 Waverly Deutsch’s Final Act: Uplifting Entrepreneurs Who Need It Most

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They have ideas that could solve problems in industry they've known for decades, but they may not be as tech-savvy as a lot of people perceive them that way. Or the pitch is not modern or sexy. How would you advise them? How would you help them balance the passion for their project with the logical aspects of launching a new venture at late age?

Chief Change Officer

#125 Waverly Deutsch’s Final Act: Uplifting Entrepreneurs Who Need It Most

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We started the series by focusing on Waverly's personal journey, the love and logic behind her career path and experiences. Then in part two, we explored a significant chapter of her career, 22 years at Chicago Bull. There, she taught and coached a well-defined group of highly logical talents who were passionate about innovation, change and entrepreneurship.

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#125 Waverly Deutsch’s Final Act: Uplifting Entrepreneurs Who Need It Most

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tricking your mindset or upgrading your skill, learning new technologies and branching out, the market itself is transforming. I see a future where new types of jobs and careers emerge, roles we haven't even imagined The names or labels for these positions might not even exist today.

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#125 Waverly Deutsch’s Final Act: Uplifting Entrepreneurs Who Need It Most

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But given a year, two or three years max, thanks to advancement in AI and other technologies, we're going to see work processes and roles evolve in ways we can't yet imagine. I view this shifting career landscape not just as a transition, but as an ocean of growth opportunities for everyone, whether they are in 40s, 50s, or even 60s. Health is, of course, a vital consideration.

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#125 Waverly Deutsch’s Final Act: Uplifting Entrepreneurs Who Need It Most

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As long as we are healthy, those of us with sound minds and cross-generational experience, particularly in people skills and relationship building, will find immense value. These skills are crucial even for AI-focused tech companies like OpenAI. They're looking for individuals who can bridge the human technology gap, making these seemingly complex more approachable and human relevant.

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#125 Waverly Deutsch’s Final Act: Uplifting Entrepreneurs Who Need It Most

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So we are at the end of our interview, hopefully. This is the first time in my podcast that I create a three-part series on a single topic and a single guest. You are the first person. How do you find this experience yourself?

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#125 Waverly Deutsch’s Final Act: Uplifting Entrepreneurs Who Need It Most

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That's one important question. I haven't asked you yet. I kind of guessed the reason, but I'd like you to share with us in the show the name of your firm, Wiseheart. Any thought process behind that?

Chief Change Officer

#125 Waverly Deutsch’s Final Act: Uplifting Entrepreneurs Who Need It Most

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From that structured environment, we transitioned to discussing her current role as a coach for a broader and more diverse group of entrepreneurs. We also touched on the topic of AI human coaching, where AI serves as the powerhouse of logic. While AI can create flawless pitch decks and resumes, Waverly emphasizes that building a business is about fostering human relationships.

Chief Change Officer

#125 Waverly Deutsch’s Final Act: Uplifting Entrepreneurs Who Need It Most

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So, Waverly, thank you so much. We got so much good insights from you today. So I definitely would invite you back for another session. Thank you so much for your time.

Chief Change Officer

#125 Waverly Deutsch’s Final Act: Uplifting Entrepreneurs Who Need It Most

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A special thanks to Waverly for sharing two hours of her valuable time for such amazing and candid conversation. That's a wrap on our three-part series on love and logic. For those who appreciate Waverly's insights and teachings, be sure to explore the other two episodes of this series if you enjoyed this finale. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

Chief Change Officer

#125 Waverly Deutsch’s Final Act: Uplifting Entrepreneurs Who Need It Most

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#125 Waverly Deutsch’s Final Act: Uplifting Entrepreneurs Who Need It Most

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AI might set the stage. but it's the human touch that builds real connections with investors and employers. Let our finale begin. Let's dive into your newest venture, Wiseheart. I'm really curious about how you plan to continue supporting entrepreneurs with this new initiative. Over the years, you've coached and judged so many entrepreneurs. So for a moment, let's switch gears.

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#125 Waverly Deutsch’s Final Act: Uplifting Entrepreneurs Who Need It Most

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I'll put on my coach's hat and step into the shoes of a new venture challenge judge. Imagine you're now pitching Wiseheart to me. So tell me, what exactly is Wiseheart? What's the core mission there? Whose problem are you trying to tackle? I'd like to learn more about the specific characteristics of the people you're trying to help.

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#125 Waverly Deutsch’s Final Act: Uplifting Entrepreneurs Who Need It Most

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More importantly, how are you going about addressing their challenges?

Chief Change Officer

#125 Waverly Deutsch’s Final Act: Uplifting Entrepreneurs Who Need It Most

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Today, we'll come full circle and refocus on Waverly herself. She spent 22 years teaching at Chicago Booth. where one of her signature courses was building new ventures. Now, she is building her own venture called Wiseheart. In this episode, you'll hear her pitch. As you listen to our conversation, put on your entrepreneur coach hat and ask yourself, How compelling is her pitch?

Chief Change Officer

#125 Waverly Deutsch’s Final Act: Uplifting Entrepreneurs Who Need It Most

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Absolutely. I remember your tagline, tough love for entrepreneurs. I also recall that a few years back, you published an article about LGBTQ entrepreneurs in the Chicago Booth Review. I read the article myself, and it highlighted how underrepresented this group is in the entrepreneurial community. From what I remember, you discussed challenges like funding and general support.

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#125 Waverly Deutsch’s Final Act: Uplifting Entrepreneurs Who Need It Most

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It wouldn't surprise me if you planned to focus more on supporting them going forward.

Chief Change Officer

#125 Waverly Deutsch’s Final Act: Uplifting Entrepreneurs Who Need It Most

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. If you've been following closely our special three-part Love & Logic series, you know this episode is the final session, the finale of our trilogy, so to speak.

Chief Change Officer

#125 Waverly Deutsch’s Final Act: Uplifting Entrepreneurs Who Need It Most

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Yeah, who knows what the future holds, especially with the election coming up. You mentioned the ongoing issues with LGBTQ identities being illegal in many places is a complex landscape. I also want to touch on ageism and other critical but often overlooked diversity issue. You are a baby boomer with extensive experience across various technological and economic cycles.

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#125 Waverly Deutsch’s Final Act: Uplifting Entrepreneurs Who Need It Most

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Speaking of age, many of our listeners, whether Gen X like myself or baby boomers like you might have retired or been laid off for various reasons. Yet, despite their valuable experience, they face entrenched ageism in the workplace and in entrepreneurship. As we discuss how to balance the heart and the head, love and logic, when making career decisions involving

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She'll discuss the why behind her actions, what Wiseheart is exactly, who the target customers are, and how she plans to help these people. Lastly, where the name Wiseheart originated. If you're just joining this series, I strongly encourage you to check out the previous two parts.

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#125 Waverly Deutsch’s Final Act: Uplifting Entrepreneurs Who Need It Most

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moving from corporate roles to entrepreneurship to taking risks. The challenges can be very daunting for more mature individuals. So my question for you is, if an entrepreneur from Gen X or the baby boomer generation approaches you, wanting to do something meaningful to create a legacy,

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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Yeah, like you said, it wasn't forced on you, though you were let go despite your performance. But that also opened up a chance for you to rethink, reposition, and as you mentioned, it was a friend who showed you a new door and you stepped through it. I'm curious about your choice making in that moment, your thought process. What was it like when you decided to make that shift?

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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From the heartbreak of not making the Olympic team to leaving the sport for good after an injury, she faced one identity crisis after another. But she didn't stop there. Nina built a successful journalism career that spent 17 years only to be let go despite being a beloved news anchor. And instead of staying down, she jumped into technology, starting from scratch, and reinvented herself yet again.

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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Why did it make sense for you? Was it about certain skills you had at that time or maybe the financial prospects? Perhaps you saw a bigger trend emerging, but I know for most people, it's not just about trends. Change has to resonate personally too. So I'd love to understand more about your thought process and decision-making in that moment.

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host.

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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I think your reflection is really important. because I've noticed a lot of people, including my friends, focus on things like money or friends when considering a career change. Right now, for example, AI is a huge trend and everyone knows is where the big money is. But jumping into it without personal alignment often feels like following the herd.

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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That's why I asked about how you identified your fit in tech. It's not just about chasing the next big thing. It's about finding a meaningful place for yourself. As you explained, your background in video, TV, and connecting with people gave you a unique edge. You didn't just leap into tech blindly.

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#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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you brought your skills with you and carved out a spot where your past experiences could make an impact.

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

Today, in part one of our conversation, we are diving into Nina's journey, her training, her trials, and her setbacks. Then tomorrow in part two, we'll explore the tools Nina has developed over the years to help others rise above their challenges. Tools like the reverse resume and successful timeline. We are not talking about your typical resume or conventional ideas of success.

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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Absolutely. And I think that's a great point. For anyone listening, the takeaway here is to think outside the box when it comes to your skills and experience. We often limit ourselves to what we have always done or the industry we know, but those same skills can often apply in ways we wouldn't initially expect. In my own experience,

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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A guest on the show, an executive recruiter, once told me I would meet a great executive recruiter myself. At first, I was surprised. Recruiting wasn't something I've ever considered. But she pointed out that my ability to support talent, connect with people, and bring the right voices onto the show demonstrated qualities that could be valuable in her industry.

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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So, just like your own story, it's about being creative and open-minded when exploring new directions. Sometimes it takes an outside perspective to see what we are really capable of.

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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Just now, Nina shared with us about her long journey, her training, her trials, and her setbacks. Tomorrow in part two, we'll explore the tools Nina has developed over the years to help others rise above their challenges. Tools like the reverse resume and successful timeline. We are not talking about your typical resume or conventional ideas of success. We are going beyond that.

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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We are going beyond that. So let's begin this incredible journey with Nina.

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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It's a pleasure. Nina, you've had such an interesting and meaningful journey. Early on, you were a professionally trained gymnast, but eventually you had to say goodbye to that world and transition into TV and journalism. Then you pivoted again, moving into tech, And now you are a speaker, coach, and consultant. A lot of changes.

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. These days, we talk a lot about resilience. We can discuss the psychology of it all day long. But who actually walks the walk and talks the talk when it comes to resilience? Professional athletes. Today, I'm sitting down with Nina Sossaman Polk, a former professional gymnast

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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In my eyes, you truly embody the role of a Chief Change Officer at heart. We're going to dive into these transitions, the trends you've seen, and everything in between. But first, let's start with a quick intro. Tell us about your background and journey, and then we'll dig deeper into different aspects of your experience.

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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People often associate change with resilience because, let's be honest, You need a resilient mindset to get through a transition, to survive before you thrive. And Nina, the reason I invited you to the show is because the kind of resilience you've developed is something truly unique. Unlike most people, you were in professional sports.

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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You spent about 15 years in gymnastics in the early part of your life. And you know that any professional sport requires intense training, like a form of military training in my eyes. It demands focus, resilience, constant competition, and the ability to bounce back from failure quickly. Can you share more about your experience in gymnastics? How did you get into it?

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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Why did you choose gymnastics? And how did that experience shape your resilience? I imagine it was a crucial foundation for the resilience you've carried forward into the rest of your life.

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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I remember telling you about my first impression of gymnastics. It actually came from watching the 1984 Olympics in L.A., I was just a kid living in Hong Kong, and it was summer vacation, so I was allowed to watch TV every day, which was rare during school days. I watched those morning broadcasts, which were live from LA in the afternoon, daytime. I was so captivated by the US gymnastic teams.

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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They were amazing, incredible, winning all round medals. Wow, that looks intense. That looks magical. So when you told me gymnastics was your day-to-day life back then, I was seriously impressed. But as you also shared, there came a point when you had to leave the sport, not because of the Olympics, but for other reasons. Could you tell us more about what led you to step away from gymnastics?

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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who started her journey at about four years old and went on to join the US gymnastic team. In her own words, gymnastics is a perfect example of resilience. You literally fall down and get back up all day, every day, as you learn new skills. That mindset became part of Nina's DNA, and it carried her through some incredible twists and turns.

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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You studied communication in college, then went into TV. So why communication? What drew you to it? And what made it compelling enough for you to turn it into a career?

Chief Change Officer

#325 Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Reinventing Before Reinvention Was a Buzzword

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So TV was what really sparked your interest. Made you think, this is it. That's why you started your career there. But then once again, you went through another transition and eventually moved into technology. How did that come about? And by the way, how long were you in the TV industry before making that switch? And what actually triggered it?

Chief Change Officer

#324 Erica Sosna: Build the Career You Want—Before Someone Else Designs It for You

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After a year away from her consultancy, Erica returned with fresh purpose, balancing her career on a three-day work week, launching a podcast and expanding her reach to create a bigger impact. Yesterday, part one, Erica shared her career journey, the twist and the turns, and the accident that changed everything.

Chief Change Officer

#324 Erica Sosna: Build the Career You Want—Before Someone Else Designs It for You

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#324 Erica Sosna: Build the Career You Want—Before Someone Else Designs It for You

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm speaking with Erica Sosna, a fellow podcast host and the author of The Career Equation, who, like me, is passionate about careers.

Chief Change Officer

#324 Erica Sosna: Build the Career You Want—Before Someone Else Designs It for You

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Today, in part two, she'll share the hard-earned wisdom she gained from overcoming paralysis, starting a new chapter, shaping a path to personal and professional growth. Erica will also dive into the career equation she created and how we can all work towards becoming better versions of ourselves in our careers. Your experience and the journey are exceptional.

Chief Change Officer

#324 Erica Sosna: Build the Career You Want—Before Someone Else Designs It for You

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The challenges you faced, both physical and mental, are beyond what many of us could even imagine. I deeply applaud you for that resilience. As I listened, I wondered, now that you're looking back, and you call yourself exceptional, which I think is entirely fitting, what would you say is your superpower?

Chief Change Officer

#324 Erica Sosna: Build the Career You Want—Before Someone Else Designs It for You

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If you had to pinpoint exactly what it is that helps you sustain and succeed through all of those things, what would that be? Is it a deep-rooted faith? something within your career equation or another quality? What do you think that allowed you to endure all the pain and ultimately come back even stronger?

Chief Change Officer

#324 Erica Sosna: Build the Career You Want—Before Someone Else Designs It for You

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But what makes Erica's story unique is her remarkable journey of resilience, purpose, and transformation in 2022 a life-changing accident left her paralyzed facing months of recovery through immense pain and uncertainty erica fought her way back back to walking back to work and back to a renewed mission.

Chief Change Officer

#324 Erica Sosna: Build the Career You Want—Before Someone Else Designs It for You

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That's the lived experience that really matters. My podcast is about real, raw, lived experiences, not polished success stories. Now, I'd like to dive into your book, The Career Equation. I've skimmed through it myself and noticed you focus on helping employers better support the career growth of their employees.

Chief Change Officer

#324 Erica Sosna: Build the Career You Want—Before Someone Else Designs It for You

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Many career books are aimed at individuals taking charge of their own career paths, but you've chosen to speak directly to employers. Since we have a few minutes left, I think it would be great to web up with this. How do you help employers enhance the career experience with the teams?

Chief Change Officer

#324 Erica Sosna: Build the Career You Want—Before Someone Else Designs It for You

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What steps can they take to create an environment where employees feel not just more productive, but truly motivated and committed? This is a relevant question to many people out there feeling stuck in the workforce, looking for a way to feel more engaged and valued.

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

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After a year away from her consultancy, Erica returned with fresh purpose, balancing her career on a three-day work week, launching a podcast and expanding her reach to create a bigger impact. Today, part one, Erica shares her career journey, the twist and the turns and the accident that changed everything.

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

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Those setbacks ended up leading to new insights, to new heights, knowing what I can and I cannot do, what I can accept, and what doesn't fit me at all. It helps me become laser-focused on what really works for me and what's worth pursuing. That clarity can be powerful, almost like a reckoning, and turn tough moments into real growth opportunities.

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

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So I love hearing about how career transitions shaped you. And you also mentioned that you've been through personal events, life events that brought an other layer of challenge and insight. Would you mind sharing more about those experiences?

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm speaking with Erica Sosna, a fellow podcast host and the author of The Career Equation, who, like me, is passionate about careers.

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

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Then in part two, airing tomorrow, she'll share the hard-earned wisdom she gained from overcoming paralysis, starting a new chapter shaping a path to personal and professional growth. Erica will also dive into the career equation she created and how we can all work towards becoming better versions of ourselves in our careers. Good afternoon, Erica. Welcome to our show.

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

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Just now, Erica shared her career journey, the twists, the turns and the accident that changed everything. Tomorrow in part two, she will share the hard-earned wisdom she gained from overcoming paralysis, starting a new chapter, shaping a path to personal and professional growth. Erica will also dive into the career equation she created,

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

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and tell us how we can all work towards becoming better versions of ourselves in our career. Come back and join us tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

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Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Thank you so much, friends. I'm delighted to be here. Erica is also a podcast host, and she covers careers. So does that make us competitors? I don't think so. I see it more like we are part of this big circle, a world where so many people are focused on their future, their life, and their career.

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

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I think we are both contributing to something bigger by sharing insights, lessons, and experiences in a human, direct way. Hopefully this helps someone get inspired or maybe even get unstuck. So Erica, let's start with you. Tell us a bit about yourself, your story and your experience before we drill down into your insights.

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

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Transitions, there's so many kinds. We often think of transition as just changing jobs, but it's more than that. It's not just jumping from Google to Microsoft in the same industry. Sometimes it's moving to a totally different industry or even changing countries, cities, and life itself. Erica, in your journey so far,

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

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If I were to ask about how you've navigated and managed your own transitions, could you share a couple of stories, maybe one related to your own career and one to your personal life? I think it would give us a deeper understanding of your experience and why you are so well-equipped

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

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But what makes Erica's story unique is her remarkable journey of resilience, purpose, and transformation in 2022 a life-changing accident left her paralyzed facing months of recovery through immense pain and uncertainty erica fought her way back back to walking back to work and back to a renewed mission.

Chief Change Officer

#323 Erica Sosna: Walking Again, Working Again—Redesigning Life on New Terms

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I totally relate to your story. Before I launched this podcast, I also faced setbacks and failures. That took a lot of reflection to walk through. Like you said, it was devastating when it happened. But once I worked through those feelings, it became an opportunity to look inward, to be honest with yourself, and eventually grow out of it.

Chief Change Officer

#149 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part One

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Today, we're diving into the personal changes Alison has experienced, her motivations, the steps she took, and her LinkedIn story of connecting with her current co-founder. Tomorrow, we'll talk about the new venture called Overalls, which is making waves in the employee benefits space.

Chief Change Officer

#149 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part One

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A few weeks ago, I released an episode with an executive coach. We covered a lot, and one of the things she shared was how some of her clients set up with their jobs, decided to move on, but then in a lot of cases, they ended up just trading one toxic boss for another. So clearly, it wasn't the best move.

Chief Change Officer

#149 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part One

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Therefore, it highlights the importance of making career transitions thoughtfully and mindfully. You've also shared an interesting backstory with me about how you ended up at Overalls and how you connected with the co-founder through LinkedIn. These days, many people use LinkedIn for job searching, but there's a lot of skepticism around job postings.

Chief Change Officer

#149 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part One

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Some of them are fake, and networking can still hit or miss. But your experience was a real LinkedIn success story. Can you walk us through what happened then and how you used the platform to make a genuine connection?

Chief Change Officer

#149 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part One

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So what happened with the LinkedIn story? Well, we'll wrap it up tomorrow in part two. We'll also dive into Allison's current venture, Overalls, which is shaking things up in the employee benefit space. They're building a network of live concierge, people like stay-at-home parents, the underemployed, and retirees. and connecting them with employers to help ease the everyday stresses on employees.

Chief Change Officer

#149 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part One

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They're building a network of live concierge, including stay-at-home parents, the underemployed, and the retirees. and linking them with employers to help reduce the day-to-day stress on employees. Will this model make employees feel more loyal, more willing to return to the office? We don't know yet, but it's definitely an idea worth exploring and building. Let's dive in. Morning, Vince.

Chief Change Officer

#149 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part One

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Thanks for having me. Alison works in the employer-employee space. Before we look into that, though, let's get to know her a bit better. Alison, tell us about your career journey, your evolution, and the transformations along the way. Then we'll explore different elements of what has brought you here.

Chief Change Officer

#149 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part One

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Earlier, you mentioned you actually enjoy change. We talked about growth, about risk. And I find it interesting because the show is called Chief Change Officer. where we dive into change from all angles, organizational, personal, and beyond. But when you say you enjoy change, let's be real, most of us enjoy change when we own it, when we are in control.

Chief Change Officer

#149 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part One

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So tell me, what is it about change that resonates with you personally? I remember you once told me that growing up, you experienced quite a bit of change. Would you say those early experiences prepared you for all the transitions you've navigated as an adult?

Chief Change Officer

#149 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part One

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Today, I'm sitting down with Alison Stewart, who made the big shift from the stability of corporate life, specifically over 10 years in finance and insurance, to the chaotic world of new ventures. Her new baby focuses on redefining employee benefits and experiences. And she made this leap right in the middle of COVID. This is actually part one of a two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

#149 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part One

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It sounds like your childhood set the stage. You got used to going with the flow, adapting to new places and people, and it seems you even enjoyed it. But then, as you grew up, you took a more stable path. You went to business school. joined well-established companies like Wells Fargo, Liberty Mutual, and Lincoln Financial. You could have stayed on this secure track.

Chief Change Officer

#149 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part One

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In fact, you did stay in the financial industry for about 10 years. But then you made a big change. during the once-in-a-lifetime global health crisis right around 2020. So what happened then? What was it about the environment or the timing that either pushed or pulled you towards making that change?

Chief Change Officer

#149 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part One

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So from what I'm hearing, you had a bit of a safety net. Your husband's full-time job gave you the financial cushion to take some time off, which allowed you that space to figure things out. You were able to reflect on who you are, what you're good at, and whether you wanted to keep doing what you know or challenge yourself with something entirely new.

Chief Change Officer

#149 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part One

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At the same time, you were exploring the market, looking at different opportunities to understand where you could take a risk, but still manage it in a way that felt comfortable and aligned with your goals. Does that sound right?

Chief Change Officer

#149 Overalls COO Alison Stewart: Laundry, Leadership, and the Business of Caring – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Are you thinking about stepping away from corporate America? Or maybe you've already left. You are still trying to figure things out. If so, this episode is just for you.

Chief Change Officer

#77 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part One

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I like what you said about identity is so true. Many of us, whether we realize it or not, we are in some kind of identity crisis. You see it all the time. People giving themselves titles like CEO when they've just started a venture. or crafting these polished personal brands on social media that don't always align with their real actions or true values.

Chief Change Officer

#77 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part One

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It's like they're trying to create this facade, but underneath, they've lost the direction. They are part of a herd mentality. whether it's in their career or even in knowing who they are. And that ties directly to resilience, like you said. It's about holding on to something real, something solid. It's not just about revenue, growth percentages, and fleshy titles.

Chief Change Officer

#77 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part One

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It's about asking, what have I learned? Who have I met? How have I grown? So with that in mind, let's talk about your venture, Tiger Hall. Tell us as if we know nothing about it. What's the story behind this company? What problem are you solving? Who are you solving it for? And how are you tackling it?

Chief Change Officer

#77 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm joined by Nellie Wartoff, someone I'd like to call the chief change officer behind Change Leaders.

Chief Change Officer

#77 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part One

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I'm so happy to be here. Nellie and I share at least one thing in common, which is extensive experience in Asia. Originally from Europe, Nellie spent a significant amount of time in Singapore and still maintains strong connections with clients and contacts in Asia. Now she's based in the US, bringing together a wealth of cross-cultural experiences.

Chief Change Officer

#77 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part One

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So you're running a tech platform, a software?

Chief Change Officer

#77 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part One

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In part two tomorrow, Nellie will continue sharing her story of starting Tiger Hall, how she navigates the cultural differences across three regions, and why most change initiatives fail, and how to set up for success. If you've ever struggled with change, whether in your career, company, or life, this series is for you. Come back and join us tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#77 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part One

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#77 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part One

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Before we dive into those experiences and insights, Nelly, let's start with your story. Not the typical job interview introduction, but a deeper dive into your journey. Where are you originally from? What brought you to Asia? How did those experiences lead you to move to LA and take on the work you are doing now? Let's begin there.

Chief Change Officer

#77 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part One

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Two weeks ago, I interviewed a guest who described himself as a change addict. That phrase stuck with me. When you mentioned being a risk taker and not following a standard playbook, choosing to carve your own path, it reminded me of that mindset. It also explains why you do what you do now, which we'll dive into shortly. You and I are not the type to settle in a comfort zone

Chief Change Officer

#77 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part One

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When everything seems calm and everyone around us says, why change? Everything is just fine. For us, it's not about comfort. It's about growth, progress, and doing things differently, better. While others may not fully understand, we see opportunities where they don't. and we create our own paths forward. That's why I come up with the term called growth progressive.

Chief Change Officer

#77 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part One

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I call my show a space designed for growth progressives. People who stay in their comfort zones still seek growth, but they follow a traditional framework, a standard playbook. Those I call growth conventionalists. But people like us, we push boundaries. We explore the uncharted, take risks, and figure things out as we go. That's what being a growth progressive is all about.

Chief Change Officer

#77 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part One

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Would you see yourself that way?

Chief Change Officer

#77 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part One

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Before starting Tiger Hall, you worked in headhunting. Can you tell us more about your experience in that world? Were there any pivotal moments, maybe a major change, a bold transition or a risk you took that shaped your journey or influenced your decision to build something entirely your own?

Chief Change Officer

#77 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part One

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Originally from Europe, she spent years in Asia, especially in Singapore, working across cultures. Now based in US, Nellie is the founder and CEO of Tiger Hall, a tech-driven platform helping organizations navigate change more effectively. This is part one of a two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

#77 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part One

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You described the fast-paced nature of your work, those 7 to 11 days filled with constant demands. I can feel the drive and dedication you had during that time. I can relate to that, having been in a similar environment during my corporate days at Standard & Poor's. Back then, covering the Asia region meant working 9 to 12 Not kidding. Even on weekends.

Chief Change Officer

#77 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part One

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But like you, I found this fast-paced and creative problem-solving extremely fulfilling. It wasn't just hard work. It was engaging and rewarding. But with that level of immersion comes stress. sometimes the kind that can weigh you down. In today's world, resilience has become almost a necessity. In your case, how did you build resilience to stay focused and keep moving forward?

Chief Change Officer

#77 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part One

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Whether in your personal or professional life, What approach or practice help you push through tough times and maintain balance?

Chief Change Officer

#77 Nellie Wartoft: The Chief Change Officer Behind Leaders and The McDonald’s Effect — Part One

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In these episodes, we'll dive into navigating cultural differences across three regions, why most change initiatives fail, and how to set up for success. If you've ever struggled with change, whether in your career, company, or life, this series is for you. Let's get started. Nelly, good afternoon to you in Los Angeles. Welcome to the show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Thank you.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

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Over the years, you've worked with so many people and have seen firsthand how they tell the stories and craft the narratives. So what's the worst story you've ever heard?

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

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For you to be where you are now, living the life you want and helping others do the same, you must have transformed your own narrative from a difficult place to a much better one. Before we ask the next question, I'd love to hear if you're open to sharing. How you managed to break free from a narrative that was holding you back?

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

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How did you go about breaking it down and then recomposing it into something much more empowering?

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. If you've been listening to my show, you know I bring guests from all corners of the world to share their stories.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

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In this three-part series, we'll journey through Chris' experiences in three stages. Yesterday in part one, we explored his expertise in helping businesses craft compelling corporate story and understand the connection between story and narrative. Today in part two, We'll look at storytelling for personal transformation as Chris shares some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

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Absolutely. The quality of the output is directly tied to the quality of what you put in. The better the input, the more authentic and accurate the outcome. That makes perfect sense. Now, let's lighten things up a bit. You've told me about the worst story you've ever heard. Let's flip the script. What is the best story you've come across so far?

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

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He will also open up about his own mental health challenge. Then in part three... He'll introduce tools we can use to develop our own stories and narratives. And here's a personal confession. I told him one of his exercises might just make me cry. I'll also be sharing my own experience with another exercise. highlighting both its challenges and insights.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

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I love what you said about real, real stories. About the struggles, the pains, the real journeys that people experience. And I totally agree. And that's exactly what I do on this show. Authentic stories resonate deeply because they reflect the full spectrum of life, not just the highlights.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

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So for those listening who might not have direct access to professional guidance, what can they do to craft and shape their own stories? Whether they are in career transition, facing personal challenges, or just feeling stuck, what would you suggest? as essential steps for creating a story that truly resonates with who they are.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

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Just now, we looked at storytelling for personal transformation. As Chris shared some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard. He also opened up about his own mental health challenges. Then tomorrow, in part three, he will introduce tools we can use to develop our own stories and narratives. And here is a personal confession. I told him one of his exercises might just make me cry.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

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I'll also be sharing my own experience with an other exercise highlighting both its challenges and insights. Come back and join us tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

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So let's dive into the second chapter of Chris' story. So far, we've covered a lot about narrative and storytelling in a business context. But as you mentioned earlier, Narrative can also play a powerful role at an individual level for leaders, for people in career transitions, or even entrepreneurs building a new venture.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

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My next question naturally is, how do we apply narrative and story to individual situations? Could you walk us through some examples to help industry this?

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

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Through these stories, we dive into hindsight, insights, and foresight for you, the progressive-minded listeners who crave change. Whether you're navigating a career shift a personal transformation like health challenges or driving change in your organization or community, there's something here for you. Today's episode has a unique twist.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

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It sounds like you are visualizing each story or Lego brick as a piece of who you are, such as experiences, skills, moments, and memories you've collected over the years. Maybe you've built a specific narrative with those bricks, a structure you've told others and taught yourself for a long time.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

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By working with someone like you or learning your method, it's like I'm reorganizing those bricks in a new way, rearranging them, to create a fresh, evolved narrative. So even though people might say, wow, this is the whole new Vince, it's still me, using the same foundational pieces, I'm just combining them differently. Highlighting new connections and themes is like building a new structure

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

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But every piece is part of my story. Just reimagine.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

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My own sense of self-awareness has grown over time. Now, I talk to different people, like entrepreneurs, who say, Oh, I know myself better than anyone else. And they have a lot of confidence in their own self-awareness. But telling our own story, crafting our narrative, or even deciding which bricks to use and how to arrange them isn't that easy because we all have blind spots.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

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So my question for you is, what are some common blind spots or barriers that make telling our own story or building self-awareness so challenging? And why is it helpful to bring in someone like you to help with this process?

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

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Right.

Chief Change Officer

#248 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part Two

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I'm interviewing a storytelling expert to share his own story. My guest, Chris Hare, is a strategic narrative advisor and coach for companies like Amazon and Microsoft, guiding leaders and executives with his approach called Atomic Storytelling. His method breaks down complex stories into their cool, resonant elements.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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I could easily spend a good 10 minutes here just running through her credentials bio and all the incredible things she's achieved. But let's be honest, I know you're here for the insights. So while I'm skipping the long intro to save us some time, I can't recommend enough diving into her profile yourself. Trust me, if you're even a bit of a nerd like me, Juliana's work is a gold mine.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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So are you carrying on with your original research back in 2020 and today with all the new development and still studying this? If you are, what's your status? What's your observation?

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Coming to us from the halls of UC Berkeley is associate professor and psychologist, Juliana Schroeder.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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Now, let me share a bit about my user viewpoint. Yes, I use chat GPT sometimes. I don't have that conscious feelings of power when I use it. Do I see it as assistant? I see it as honestly as a colleague, so to speak. Although I found this colleague, a lot of times provides me with a huge degree of confirmation bias. Whatever I say, oh yeah, that's right. You can think of it this way and all that.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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I'm very conscious about confirmation bias when I use CheckGPT. When I ask them questions, I try to get them to help me figure it out, or maybe write something more for me, give me more inspiration, creativity, and they keep coming back with the same idea. Eventually I said, that's not working.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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I would imagine if this is talking to a human colleague, I might be more careful in terms of the language I use. Am I saying any things that may upset you? But I still see it as a machine. And as of now, the emotional aspect of it is not so human yet. So that's why I don't see it just as an assistant. I would take it more like advisor, you know, depending on situation.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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Well, if I structure the questions, I must say they give me some ideas as if I'm talking to a fairly intelligent person. And then we keep communicating. Then this kind of interaction or conversation sometimes, honestly, is more interesting. than talking to a human who may not have any sense of independent thinking.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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Juliana and I met at Chicago Booth. She was my TA for two courses taught by two amazing professors and social psychologists, Nick Apley and Linda Ginzel. I still remember the first day we met, I was sitting next to her on the front row when the whole classroom was packed. I didn't know she was actually my TA. I raised hand and answered the question. I got the question wrong.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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I do see the value in terms of using the machine, a highly intelligent machine, and me as the human also being aware of what kind of biases that I may face if I use this tool. Just be aware of that, be mindful not to be distracted or get so carried away by that. So far, this conversation, this interaction for me is still manageable.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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But then I watched a video posted by an adjunct professor of entrepreneurship from Chicago Bull. The topic is why AI may be your best astrologist. I know you work with and teach a lot of MBAs, executives. Do you see us, like people like us, decision-making, executive decision-making, perhaps AI could be one of our best astrologists?

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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Then she whispered to me, trying to explain the reason why. Then we met again in Singapore. This time, I pulled her aside. asking her about reciprocity, a very important concept in psychology and negotiation. In my eyes, she is very sharp. Those who know me well understand that I use this word very selectively as a compliment. Over time, I've observed the growth of her academic career.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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Last question, I'd like to get your insights. Now, you study human to human interaction conversation, and we just talk about me as a human talking, working with a machine. This human and machine interaction will become more and more common. For younger kids, they are going to grow up in this era. So they just would be more immersed in this space.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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Adults being trained and grow up in an era where it's just human to human. And now we are in this human machine era. So what advice would you give to MBA students, executives, managers, how we could make better use of our human communication skills Or if you have to highlight a couple of premium human qualities, human skills that we should hold on to.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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I told myself, I must invite her to my podcast. So, wish granted, here we are. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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Let's start with a brief introduction of your background. For the benefit of the audience, how I met Juliana, that was when I was at Chicago Bull.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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Check out your personal website. You have published a lot of papers over time. Like you said, you study power, study negotiation, decision making. I was wondering when you were in the master, PhD program, when you were thinking of

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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Choosing specific areas of research, why you chose language, mind perception, what's fascinating about those areas that you decide, well, yeah, I really, really want to go deep to become a deep thinker, researcher, and teacher in those areas?

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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You might have noticed most of our guests have taken quite the scenic route through their careers. Juliana, on the other hand, has kept her eyes on one prize, digging deep into the human mind. which is now leading the charge in teaching negotiation and management to both MBA students and seasoned executives.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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One thing before we deep dive into your research areas, while you're talking about trying to understand the mind in other people, always wondering like psychologists themselves, how they try to understand their own psychology. You, as a living human, how you perceive or figure out your own psychology, would you make you smarter or more complicated in a sense to

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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Figure out your own psychological state of mind when something exciting happened or something bad happened.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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Now, but that's one area or in particular one paper that interests me when I did my research for this interview. This paper was published in year 2020. It's called Power and Decision Making.

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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new directions for research in the age of artificial intelligence now that's 2020 that's before we have chat gpt and many other ai tools as of today so can you tell us a bit more about your argument for that paper back then

Chief Change Officer

#193 Dr. Juliana Schroeder: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

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Take a quick look at her website or UC Berkeley's, and you'll be blown away by her achievements. We are talking a laundry list of titles, a mountain of papers, and a substantial collection of awards. And get this, she's bagged not one, but two master's degrees and two PhDs at an age where many are still figuring things out.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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Join me as I chat with Fatou Zegna So, a remarkable individual I had the pleasure of studying together during our executive MBA classes in London and in Singapore with Chicago Booth. She has since moved from the well-established legal profession to economic development, technical advisory and youth entrepreneurship in Senegal. In her own words, she aims not just to succeed, but to create magic.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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Wow. It sounds like a dream come true for you. Well, but to be honest, in life, in career, when we are in the process of making changes, whatever those are, it's not an on-off switch. It's never perfect. In one of our episodes, in fact, the first episode, I interview our classmate Pei Ling, who is a parliamentarian in Singapore.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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Now, she won the battle, won the election, but she admits that during that period of time, the campaigning or even post-campaigning, it was the darkest period in her life. She overcame it, but it's a process. So in your case, tell us honestly, have you ever felt any moment of regret or discouragement or depression or difficulties, any sort of those? And how did you make through it?

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Imagine this, you are in Paris, the city of lights, where you were born and raised.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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Of course, you build a lot of credentials, reputation in the political circle, which is important, which is an asset, which is a capital. And now you are playing a consultant role I'm curious to know about in your country now, what are some of the issues, challenges or opportunities you try to overcome for the country as a consultant?

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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What drives a person to embrace such profound change? How does a lawyer used to practicing set laws becoming a chief change officer, making her own laws of change for careers, for communities, and for societies? Fatou is going to tell her own story.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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You mentioned about building an entrepreneurship ecosystem for the young people in Senegal. Most problem.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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Well, you're linking cultures, you're linking talents, you're linking skills, you're linking experiences. For the benefits of Africa.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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yeah yeah before covid i was involved in the education technology space among all the countries in the world one of those excitement actually happened in africa a lot of young talent they all pray for more education newer skills if we think of it as we are economists basically there's a huge workforce

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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that yet to be tapped into and that would be a huge productivity growth if you can make the best use of the talent pool in that region. So I can't wait enough to hear more stories, more success stories from you about linking Europeans with Africans and possibly even other parts of the world to create that kind of magic.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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So first start with France and then Wendatco, right? And so there would be other countries.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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I'm so glad you agreed to come on board. Well, it's been how many years? Last time I saw you in Singapore, is that right?

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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So I'm sure when I invite you back next time for an interview, you'll say, well, Vince, well, it's not just France. Now I got another 10 countries or 20 countries. I won't be shocked to hear that. I've occupied your airtime for long. I do...

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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want to say thank you so much for sharing and i will of course like to invite you back to hear more of those magic magical stories you're trying to create but we'll save it for next time we'll build the momentum so that we'll have the part two well thank you so much i loved it very much talking

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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Well, I would say as a conclusion, you study law, you study all kinds of law books, you memorize all the rules and stuff, but now you are making your own playbook, your own law book for change, for magic. This program, this show is about making changes, making your own laws of change. You are truly a role model of creating your own law book, your own playbook.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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I'm really glad that I invited you in the very first place and really appreciate your time. I would encourage you since you're reaching out to different people, what you share here, I'll release it as an episode. You should also share this link to your counterparts. I will. I think they would care to know about your motivation. You as a founder story.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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I mean, why for two years doing this and then they listen to this. Oh, I know why you make this big commitment moving from France from a stable job to a position of stability to a position of challenge or creating magic. I think they will be touched. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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Yeah. So you moved from where you were born and raised Back to your root, your origin in Africa. Now, before we go deep into the Africa situation, what actually moved you to take this leap of faith from legal profession in banking back to your root? There must be a lot of thought going on, a lot of debate, perhaps, in your mind and among your family members. What happened then?

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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Picture yourself as a highly skilled in-house counsel at one of the world's largest banking groups, overseeing a team of 50 and spearheading billion-dollar financial transactions. Life isn't just good. It's picture perfect. Now, what if I challenged you to leave it all behind?

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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I think I did well. Sounds like it was a calculated decision. It wasn't a spur of the moment thing. You were prudent enough to plan ahead. Now you move in the year 2016. Now it's 2024, eight years. You've explored opportunities. You experienced new life. Now, I was wondering... What one thing, what that one thing is that motivate you if I have to ask you to come up with one word?

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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Would you say identity? I sense that for you, born and raised in the developed economy, France, Paris, legal profession, stability, that is part of your identity. But you have the other piece of you which lies in your root, in your origin. You identify with it. You resonate with it. You see a lot of things going on. You really want to do something about it. I think identity is your calling.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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Would you agree? Yeah.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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What if I invited you to move with your whole family to Senegal, a vibrant country in West Africa, once a French colony, to start afresh? Would you take the leap? For many, the answer would be a no. But today's guest isn't just anyone.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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Yeah, you are setting up a role model for your children. They see you in action. They see that, oh, my mother Making a move. I mean, honestly, a lot of things I'm sure going on in your life in Africa. And they are there with you. They see a lot of things which they most likely won't see in France. Yes, after they grow up, they can move back to France or move to other countries to be adventurous.

Chief Change Officer

#192 Fatou Sagna Sow Quit French Banking for a Bigger Mission in Africa—And Brought Her Family Along

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to do whatever they want to do to create impact for themselves as well as for other people because that's what my mother has done for Africa, for many other countries. So now, let's spend the rest of our time on Africa. Tell us about your time as a technical advisor. What did you see? What have you done? What challenges were you facing at that point?

Chief Change Officer

#310 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part Two

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You focus a lot on emotions and emotional intelligence. And of course, we're human. We have emotions. But being able to understand them, manage them, and work with them, that's what makes someone a better leader, a better teammate, a better person. So here's my question. What are some of the emotional blind spots we need to watch out for? Maybe it's fear, maybe ego, maybe something else.

Chief Change Officer

#310 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Javon Wooden, Army veteran, leadership coach, and someone whose story grabs you from the very first moment. At 17, he was facing prison time.

Chief Change Officer

#310 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part Two

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I ask this because it's not just about learning what to do, it's about knowing what to look out for. These hidden villains, if you will, can pull us back into old habits or reactive behavior. And if we can name them, we can manage them better. So from your work, what are those few things we should all be more mindful of? Whether we are leaders or just trying to grow as human beings,

Chief Change Officer

#310 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part Two

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So emotional intelligence starts from within, starts with us. I couldn't agree more. I'm a big believer in self-awareness. And honestly, I've seen this so often. People go through life all the way to retirement and realize they never really got to know themselves. They just follow the playbook.

Chief Change Officer

#310 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part Two

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check all the boxes, did what was expected, and maybe they did it well, made money, built a career, but deep down, they don't feel fulfilled. They don't feel happy. That's why self-awareness matters. When you know who you are, it helps you build empathy and resilience. Losing a job, for example, It's hard, but that doesn't mean you've lost yourself. You haven't lost your skills.

Chief Change Officer

#310 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part Two

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You haven't lost your value. You haven't lost who you are. Resilience is remembering that. Empathy includes self-empathy too, which is self-love. supporting yourself the way you would support others. That's one of the biggest lessons I've taken away from our conversation today.

Chief Change Officer

#310 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part Two

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Is this anything you'd like to add? Something you really want to share with the audience? Please go ahead. The mic is yours.

Chief Change Officer

#310 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part Two

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That's the end for a series on Javon Wooden. Jovan shows us that mistake isn't weakness, it's the work. If you're trying to lead, to build, or just grow as a person, his experience is proof that change isn't only possible, it's contagious. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

Chief Change Officer

#310 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part Two

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#310 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part Two

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From what I know, the military really shaped you, taught you leadership, exposed you to all kinds of people and pressure. Most of us never experienced that. We work in stable, quiet, and peaceful environments. You didn't just learn resilience. You lived it. These days, a lot of people talk about resilience. But few have actually walked that path.

Chief Change Officer

#310 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part Two

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I've had my own struggles, including three episodes of depression, but nothing like what you've gone through physically or mentally. So I'm curious, was that what led you to become a coach and speaker on emotional intelligence? Did all of that push you to help others this way?

Chief Change Officer

#310 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part Two

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Like,

Chief Change Officer

#310 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part Two

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You've worked with a lot of corporate leaders. Without naming names, what kind of issues are they facing? You can give me a general overview or if there's one story that really captures it, feel free to share that too. A lot of us were taught to show strength, to always act like we've got it together.

Chief Change Officer

#310 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part Two

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And many think resilience means just powering through, but we both know that it's only part of the picture. So I'd love to hear what are these leaders struggling with and how do you help them shift their mindset or approach?

Chief Change Officer

#310 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part Two

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A few years later, he was leading soldiers in combat. In this two-part series, Jevon shares how trauma shaped his purpose, how empathy became his strategy, and why he now helps leaders build emotional intelligence like the careers depend on it. Because they do. Let's jump in. So you stayed in the army for over 10 years. Is that right?

Chief Change Officer

#310 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part Two

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Let me ask you this. Empathy. You've mentioned that word a few times already. And I want to zoom in on it for a moment. We all say it's important. We know it matters. But the truth is, empathy is hard work. hard to develop, hard to sustain. Because at the end of the day, we are wired to look at the world from our own lens. We are naturally self-focused. It's just how we're built.

Chief Change Officer

#310 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part Two

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And sometimes people even confuse empathy with sympathy. So I love to hear your take. How do you help leaders who struggle with empathy? Can you share an example, maybe a CEO or someone in a senior role who came to you stuck and how to help them really understand and practice empathy in a meaningful way in a business setting?

Chief Change Officer

#309 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part One

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That moment was clearly a big wake up call for you. You got a second chance, a brand new life, really. And then you chose to join the military. Why the military? What made you decide to take that path at that point in your life?

Chief Change Officer

#309 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part One

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I'm glad Chris Hare, the other guest from last year, who introduced you to me. It's my honor to host you on my show.

Chief Change Officer

#309 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Javon Wooden, Army veteran, leadership coach, and someone whose story grabs you from the very first moment. At 17, he was facing prison time.

Chief Change Officer

#309 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part One

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Sure, last time we spoke, you shared a lot of really meaningful stories about your journey. Before we dive deeper today, let's start with a quick intro. Tell the audience a bit about yourself, not just what you do now, but also some highlights from your past. I think your transitions and experiences are key to understanding the insights we're about to explore.

Chief Change Officer

#309 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part One

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So you stayed in the army for over 10 years. Is that right?

Chief Change Officer

#309 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part One

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That's where we'll leave it for today. Javon's story from arrest to army to leadership is already powerful. But in part two, we go deeper. PTSD, fatherhood, executive coaching, and why emotional intelligence isn't optional for true leaders. Trust me, you want to listen this next chapter. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#309 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part One

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Earlier, you mentioned a time in your life when you were facing the risk of spending seven years in prison. Can you walk us through what really happened? Just be as honest as you feel comfortable.

Chief Change Officer

#309 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part One

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You told me that you grew up in poverty. That was the reality of your family background, right? I've always believed that who we are today, what we choose to do, and how we go about doing it, all of that is shaped by our past. And it's not just about what we did wrong or right.

Chief Change Officer

#309 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part One

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It's also about the environment we were raised in, things like our relationship with our parents, and even how they related to each other. So looking back, how do you think the way you were raised played a role in the decisions you made, including the ones that led you down the wrong path?

Chief Change Officer

#309 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part One

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A few years later, he was leading soldiers in combat. In this two-part series, Jevon shares how trauma shaped his purpose, how empathy became his strategy, and why he now helps leaders build emotional intelligence like the careers depend on it. Because they do. Let's jump in. Good morning, Javon. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#309 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part One

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So your mother made the decision to come up with the money so you could hire a better private lawyer, someone who could really help you out of the situation. And it worked. You ended up spending just a few months imprisoned, and then you were set free and able to return to a normal life with no criminal record. Is that right?

Chief Change Officer

#309 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part One

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During those several months when you were locked up, alone in such a rough environment, what were you thinking? How were you feeling? Looking back, can you recall your state of mind then? Some people in that situation might blame others. Others might decide to work harder. Some even study for a degree while in prison. And then there are those who come out angry, wanting revenge.

Chief Change Officer

#309 Jevon Wooden: From Cell Block to C-Suite — Part One

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Everyone reacts differently, and those reactions shape the choices they make and the path they take afterwards. You chose to live better. I'm curious, what was that turning point for you? What helped you rebound during that time?

Chief Change Officer

#143 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part One

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So if I understand correctly, after your time at Disney... Both of you went your separate ways, pursuing your own paths, but you stayed in close touch as friends. Then, at some point, you reunited and started working together again, forming a company, and even co-authoring a new book. Is that a fair way to summarize your 10-year journey together?

Chief Change Officer

#143 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part One

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As both of you were sharing your memories, it made me reflect on my own experiences working in corporations. I've had some great memories, and some not so great ones. I remember working with amazing colleagues, some more senior, some junior, or maybe at the same level, often in different offices and locations. These were people I had such a strong connection with. even hanging out after work.

Chief Change Officer

#143 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part One

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But as time passed, I moved on to other things, became an entrepreneur, and while I kept in touch with some of them, others drifted away. Our conversations became fewer, and the connection faded over time.

Chief Change Officer

#143 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part One

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In today's episode, I sit down with two guests, Edward Vanduden and Tricia Strong, to talk about connection and collaboration. This is part one of our two-part series. Today, Edward and Tricia will look back on their own collaborative journey, which started 10 years ago at Disley. They turned a positive work relationship into a sustainable personal friendship

Chief Change Officer

#143 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part One

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sometimes naturally sometimes with a sense of loss i guess what i'm trying to say here is since we are talking about collaboration today which i see as a form of relationship i'm curious about your journey together You started as work friends, obviously had a positive working relationship and then stayed in touch after your time at Desley.

Chief Change Officer

#143 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part One

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But how did you sustain that work friendship and evolve it into a personal relationship and then eventually into a business partnership? I think this would be really meaningful to hear, especially in today's world with the rise of social media, building and maintaining real connections isn't easy.

Chief Change Officer

#143 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part One

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So I love to hear your insights on how you kept that relationship strong and turned it into something much deeper. both personally and professionally.

Chief Change Officer

#143 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part One

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that has now grown into a business partnership and a co-authoring collaboration on a book about collaboration. In tomorrow's episode, part two, we dive into the vision and framework for collaboration. centered on a noble purpose and five key behaviors. What are these behaviors? How can we practice them? And why is collaboration so challenging today?

Chief Change Officer

#143 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part One

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Before we dive into the five principles in your book and the noble purpose behind it, I want to ask, why does this book matter? On the flip side, what is the problem you're trying to solve with the book? From what you've shared with me so far, you believe collaboration is the solution to many of the biggest workplace challenges. So if collaboration is the key,

Chief Change Officer

#143 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part One

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That means there are a lot of issues in the workplace today. What are those problems? As you see them,

Chief Change Officer

#143 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part One

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In the last 30 minutes, Edward and Frasier went down the memory lane and reflected on their own collaborative journey. It began 10 years ago at Disley. They turned a positive work relationship into a sustainable personal friendship that has now grown into a business partnership and co-authoring collaboration on a book about collaboration.

Chief Change Officer

#143 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part One

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in tomorrow's episode, part two, will dive into the vision and framework for collaboration centered on a noble purpose and five key behaviors. What are these behaviors? How can we practice them? And why is collaboration so challenging today? I assure you, the methodology isn't just an other software solution. It's far more human-centric than what we're used to seeing.

Chief Change Officer

#143 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#143 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part One

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I assure you, the method isn't just another software solution. is far more human-centered than what we're used to seeing. Let's start collaborating. Good morning, Edward and Tricia. Welcome to my show.

Chief Change Officer

#143 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part One

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Yes, I'm happy to be here. We always start with a self-introduction. But today's episode is extra special because for the first time ever, I have not one but two guests joining me. A unique moment for the show. Let's kick things off, Edward and Tricia, whichever one of you would like to go first. Share a bit about yourselves and your personal journey.

Chief Change Officer

#143 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part One

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Then we'll go into how the two of you came together to collaborate. After all, collaboration is the key theme of today's episode. So let's hear your individual stories and then we'll get into how your paths crossed and what makes this collaboration so impactful.

Chief Change Officer

#143 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part One

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Because you never know when that connection or person could become your collaborator, business partner, or referral to a great opportunity. That's how I landed five job offers within three months after leaving a role that led to mental depression years ago. Today, though, it's so easy to burn and build bridges. You can add a friend in quotation in one second. and just as easily delete them.

Chief Change Officer

#143 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part One

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So you both met in Disley, right? I'd love to hear more about that first experience working together. Let's dive into the details. Edward, let's start with you. How did you feel when you first met Tricia? And how did this collaboration unfold from your perspective? And then, Trish here, we would love to hear your side of the story as well.

Chief Change Officer

#143 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part One

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I think it will be really interesting to explore both viewpoints.

Chief Change Officer

#143 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part One

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Wow, 10 years ago. That's a long time. So after that first encounter at Disley, how did the working relationship evolve? Was it more day-to-day interaction? Or maybe project-based, on and off? Did you face any moments of confrontation or was it mostly collaborative? I'd like to hear how both of you describe the experience after that initial meeting.

Chief Change Officer

#143 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Don't burn bridges. Keep up with business connections and personal relationships.

Chief Change Officer

#143 Tricia and Edward: Getting Teams to Work Together Without the Headaches – Part One

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This user-friendly, in quotation, UI UX experience has seeped into our modern mindset, making it effortless to kick people out of our own circles or lives. But without sustainable connections, How can we collaborate, build stronger teams, and create outcomes that benefit everyone?

Chief Change Officer

#377 Ral West: From Charter Planes to Real Estate Empires—Systems, Grit, and Reinvention

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest, Raelle West, is the kind of person you meet and immediately think, wow, she has lived such a full life.

Chief Change Officer

#377 Ral West: From Charter Planes to Real Estate Empires—Systems, Grit, and Reinvention

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You've reached a point where traditionally you could retire stop working, travel around the world, dive into hobbies. But the concept of retirement has changed. In today's world, it's not always about stepping away completely. I'm curious, what's your personal take on retirement? Would you consider retiring in the conventional sense? Or do you have a different vision for this stage of life?

Chief Change Officer

#377 Ral West: From Charter Planes to Real Estate Empires—Systems, Grit, and Reinvention

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You and I have the longest time difference, 17 hours. Thank you for coming on board.

Chief Change Officer

#377 Ral West: From Charter Planes to Real Estate Empires—Systems, Grit, and Reinvention

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The idea of retirement is evolving rapidly. is no longer about just stopping work and living off savings or pensions. Financial independence now means people have choices whether to keep working, pivot into a passion project, or even take breaks to recharge and come back stronger. From your perspective, with financial freedom at your disposal, how do you view retirement?

Chief Change Officer

#377 Ral West: From Charter Planes to Real Estate Empires—Systems, Grit, and Reinvention

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When you think about this for the border population, how do you see the concept shifting? If we put on the Futurist hats, where do you think retirement is headed in the next decade or two? I'd love to hear your vision for how this concept may evolve.

Chief Change Officer

#377 Ral West: From Charter Planes to Real Estate Empires—Systems, Grit, and Reinvention

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#377 Ral West: From Charter Planes to Real Estate Empires—Systems, Grit, and Reinvention

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Time difference reflects distance. So far, among all my guests, you are the most distant one. The very first guest from Alaska I've never visited Alaska. The closest I've been was a transit stop when flying from Asia to Toronto, Canada. But now I finally have the chance to connect with someone from Alaska. I'm so excited to learn more. Let's get started with your story.

Chief Change Officer

#377 Ral West: From Charter Planes to Real Estate Empires—Systems, Grit, and Reinvention

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Walk us through your career journey, your history, the major transitions, and the key moments of evolution. Then we explore different elements in our conversation.

Chief Change Officer

#377 Ral West: From Charter Planes to Real Estate Empires—Systems, Grit, and Reinvention

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You mentioned you grew up in an entrepreneurial family. Yes. So that vibe, the mindset of building and creating was part of your education from an early age. Then in your 20s, you stepped into the game yourself, starting your own ventures. You've been involved in various businesses since. I'm curious. How do you decide which area to focus on?

Chief Change Officer

#377 Ral West: From Charter Planes to Real Estate Empires—Systems, Grit, and Reinvention

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Is it a lot of strategic calculation, following trends, gut feeling, or just going where the money is? What's your thought process when choosing a business to start or invest in? And what lessons have you learned along the way?

Chief Change Officer

#377 Ral West: From Charter Planes to Real Estate Empires—Systems, Grit, and Reinvention

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Over 40 years as an entrepreneur, her story is full of twists and turns. In her mid-20s, she took a leap and started her first business. That was just the beginning. For 25 years, she and her husband ran a charted air surface between Alaska and Hawaii, flying wide-body jets. Eventually, they soldered to Alaska Airlines, a huge milestone, but not the end of her journey.

Chief Change Officer

#377 Ral West: From Charter Planes to Real Estate Empires—Systems, Grit, and Reinvention

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I see you as a fairly successful self-made business person. someone who has steadily built wealth over time with discipline while spotting opportunities along the way, how would you describe your approach? In your own words, what kind of business person are you?

Chief Change Officer

#377 Ral West: From Charter Planes to Real Estate Empires—Systems, Grit, and Reinvention

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In your entrepreneurial journey as a woman, have you faced challenges that might differ from those faced by men in similar positions? I ask because even today, in a tech-driven world, it is well known that women, regardless of age, still face unique hurdles. For instance, female tech founders struggle with raising money as easily or in the same amount as their male counterparts.

Chief Change Officer

#377 Ral West: From Charter Planes to Real Estate Empires—Systems, Grit, and Reinvention

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Reflecting on your experience across the different businesses you've built and run, what were some of the key challenges you've encountered as a woman business leader And now, as a coach, how do you guide younger women to navigate and overcome similar challenges, learning from what you faced and learned?

Chief Change Officer

#377 Ral West: From Charter Planes to Real Estate Empires—Systems, Grit, and Reinvention

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She has owned small cruise ships, invested in real estate, and kept building. And now she's helping other women entrepreneurs figure out the same thing she did, how to run a business and have a life with sustainability. Her story is real and packed with lessons for anyone chasing big dreams. Let's dive in. Well, good afternoon. Welcome to our show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#377 Ral West: From Charter Planes to Real Estate Empires—Systems, Grit, and Reinvention

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How do you guide people in building the kind of system from growing up? Specifically, how do you teach them to lay the foundation, develop the structure, and ensure is resilient enough to grow and thrive before they can step back and enjoy the fruit of their labor?

Chief Change Officer

#376 Athena Brownson: Healing in Real Time—The Comeback Behind the Chronic Pain — Part Two

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What advice or encouragement would you offer to help them take that next step towards doing better, especially after listening to this episode?

Chief Change Officer

#376 Athena Brownson: Healing in Real Time—The Comeback Behind the Chronic Pain — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm talking to Athena Bronson, a real estate agent from Denver, Colorado. Nope, we are not talking about real estate.

Chief Change Officer

#376 Athena Brownson: Healing in Real Time—The Comeback Behind the Chronic Pain — Part Two

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One thing I add to that is when you are practicing this mindset shift process, and making those small changes or steps forward. Make it visible. Grab an actual notebook, not on the computer, but a real paper notebook and pen or even a board you can put up on the wall. Write down each small win. check it off and create a visual reminder that says, I did it.

Chief Change Officer

#376 Athena Brownson: Healing in Real Time—The Comeback Behind the Chronic Pain — Part Two

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That simple action of writing, seeing those check marks and having a visual cue of your progress can really inform that sense of accomplishment. I think is a powerful way to feel and see your growth over time.

Chief Change Officer

#376 Athena Brownson: Healing in Real Time—The Comeback Behind the Chronic Pain — Part Two

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100%.

Chief Change Officer

#376 Athena Brownson: Healing in Real Time—The Comeback Behind the Chronic Pain — Part Two

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Jodie Foster once said, all you need to make a movie is pen, paper, and confidence. Despite her success as an actor, she didn't step into directing until later in her career, initially thinking she needed to master every technical detail. But as she shared in her masterclass, she realized that those three essentials, pen, paper, and confidence, were all she needed to start.

Chief Change Officer

#376 Athena Brownson: Healing in Real Time—The Comeback Behind the Chronic Pain — Part Two

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In part one, Athena shares her experience with Lyme disease, a condition that remains poorly understood but has profoundly impacted her health. She'll talk about how she caught it, what she's endured, and the fight to survive. Today in part two, Asina will share how she not only survived, but found ways to thrive, rebuild her support system, and grow her career once again.

Chief Change Officer

#376 Athena Brownson: Healing in Real Time—The Comeback Behind the Chronic Pain — Part Two

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It's such a powerful reminder how simplicity and self-belief can be the true foundation for creating something meaningful. and sustainable. That is beautiful. Of course, I know all the scripts were crafted by a copywriter, but it felt so authentic. I believe she was speaking directly from her heart and her experience. It's so powerful.

Chief Change Officer

#376 Athena Brownson: Healing in Real Time—The Comeback Behind the Chronic Pain — Part Two

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So I'll leave you with that and share it with my listeners too. Pen, paper, that's power in them. A journal as well, by the way. And of course, a bit of confidence. Thank you so much, Athena.

Chief Change Officer

#376 Athena Brownson: Healing in Real Time—The Comeback Behind the Chronic Pain — Part Two

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#376 Athena Brownson: Healing in Real Time—The Comeback Behind the Chronic Pain — Part Two

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I really resonate with what you said about being our biggest advocate, especially in tough times. We hear a lot about IQ and EQ, emotional quotient, emotional intelligence. But there's another measure, adversity quotient or IQ, which seems less talked about yet. So crucial. I think we are all starting to see how important it really is. Your experience is a powerful example of this.

Chief Change Officer

#376 Athena Brownson: Healing in Real Time—The Comeback Behind the Chronic Pain — Part Two

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Physical pain is intense and medications might help here and there. maybe make sleep easier. But that's only part of it. It's the mental resilience that really keeps us going, especially in those moments when you are alone, in pain, facing it all. What stands out from what you've just shared is how you found ways to mentally change your focus even on the small things, to help you stay grounded.

Chief Change Officer

#376 Athena Brownson: Healing in Real Time—The Comeback Behind the Chronic Pain — Part Two

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It seems like that's been your best defense and maybe even your offense.

Chief Change Officer

#376 Athena Brownson: Healing in Real Time—The Comeback Behind the Chronic Pain — Part Two

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You've talked about how you help yourself normalize the situation so that life and work could go on. You kept earning, kept things moving, especially with those high medical costs. Even with insurance, it still adds up. But beyond that, you mentioned the importance of building a support system with mentors, coaches, and others, which I think is crucial.

Chief Change Officer

#376 Athena Brownson: Healing in Real Time—The Comeback Behind the Chronic Pain — Part Two

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Can you share more about how you started building that from scratch and how you went about finding the right people, those who really became the perfect fit for your journey? Eventually, it seems like it grew into a really strong support system. One that not only provided you the help you needed, but also gave you a true sense of community.

Chief Change Officer

#376 Athena Brownson: Healing in Real Time—The Comeback Behind the Chronic Pain — Part Two

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Instead, we dive into her extraordinary journey of resilience. At the peak of her real estate career, Feeling invincible and unstoppable, Athena's life took unexpected turn. Strange health issues appeared, and she was eventually diagnosed with Lyme disease, a condition that would change everything. For the past seven years,

Chief Change Officer

#376 Athena Brownson: Healing in Real Time—The Comeback Behind the Chronic Pain — Part Two

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You shared so much today about building a support system, rewiring your mindset, and finding ways to move forward is incredibly helpful. For those out there who might be in the middle of a live transition, just like you were, if you don't have a support system yet, there's still feelings stuck. And they are struggling with that rewiring process. What would you say to them?

Chief Change Officer

#376 Athena Brownson: Healing in Real Time—The Comeback Behind the Chronic Pain — Part Two

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Athena has lived in chronic pain, relying on plasma transfusions four days each month just to keep going. Her life has revolved around battling this disease, something she never imagined facing. As she says, if life didn't give us adversity and challenges. This story is too powerful and real for just one episode.

Chief Change Officer

#375 Athena Brownson: Lyme Disease, Real Estate, and Radical Resilience — Part One

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So you were diagnosed around seven to eight years ago and you discovered through surgery rather than injury. You've also said dealing with chronic pain in a range of challenges. How has this disease affected your day-to-day life and work? I can only imagine how difficult it must be.

Chief Change Officer

#375 Athena Brownson: Lyme Disease, Real Estate, and Radical Resilience — Part One

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To the extent that you are comfortable sharing, I'd love to hear about how you've managed and navigated these challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#375 Athena Brownson: Lyme Disease, Real Estate, and Radical Resilience — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm talking to Athena Bronson, a real estate agent from Denver, Colorado. No, we are not talking about real estate.

Chief Change Officer

#375 Athena Brownson: Lyme Disease, Real Estate, and Radical Resilience — Part One

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Today, in part one, Asena shares her experience with Lyme disease, a condition that remains poorly understood but has profoundly impacted her health. She'll talk about how she caught it, what she's endured, and the fight to survive. Tomorrow in part two, Asina will share how she not only survived, but found ways to thrive, rebuild her support system, and grow her career once again.

Chief Change Officer

#375 Athena Brownson: Lyme Disease, Real Estate, and Radical Resilience — Part One

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I really resonate with what you said about being our biggest advocate, especially in tough times. We hear a lot about IQ and EQ, emotional quotient, emotional intelligence. But there's another measure, adversity quotient or AQ, which seems less talked about yet so crucial. I think we are all starting to see how important it really is. Your experience is a powerful example of this.

Chief Change Officer

#375 Athena Brownson: Lyme Disease, Real Estate, and Radical Resilience — Part One

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Physical pain is intense and medications might help here and there. Maybe make sleep easier. But that's only part of it. It's the mental resilience that really keeps us going. Especially in those moments when you are alone, in pain, facing it all. What stands out from what you've just shared is how you found ways to mentally change your focus, even on the small things, to help you stay grounded.

Chief Change Officer

#375 Athena Brownson: Lyme Disease, Real Estate, and Radical Resilience — Part One

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It seems like that's been your best defense and maybe even your offense.

Chief Change Officer

#375 Athena Brownson: Lyme Disease, Real Estate, and Radical Resilience — Part One

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Just now, Alcina shared with us about how she caught Lyme disease, what she has endured, and her fight to survive. Tomorrow in Part 2, Asina will share more about how she not only survived but found ways to thrive actively to rebuild her support system and grow her career once again. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#375 Athena Brownson: Lyme Disease, Real Estate, and Radical Resilience — Part One

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Athena, welcome to our show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. I know you're in Denver. Good afternoon to you.

Chief Change Officer

#375 Athena Brownson: Lyme Disease, Real Estate, and Radical Resilience — Part One

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Instead, we dive into her extraordinary journey of resilience. At the peak of her real estate career, Feeling invincible and unstoppable, Athena's life took unexpected turn. Strange health issues appeared, and she was eventually diagnosed with Lyme disease, a condition that would change everything. For the past seven years,

Chief Change Officer

#375 Athena Brownson: Lyme Disease, Real Estate, and Radical Resilience — Part One

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That's so much. We can dive into here. Athena, can you share with us how old were you when you were first diagnosed?

Chief Change Officer

#375 Athena Brownson: Lyme Disease, Real Estate, and Radical Resilience — Part One

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You mentioned that this disease is rare and you were fortunate to find a doctor who understood it well. But for most of my listeners in the U.S. as well as internationally, this condition isn't widely known, meaning there's a lack of awareness, which could be risky. Could you enlighten us a bit more? What exactly is this disease and what should people know about it?

Chief Change Officer

#375 Athena Brownson: Lyme Disease, Real Estate, and Radical Resilience — Part One

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Athena has lived in chronic pain, relying on plasma transfusions four days each month just to keep going. Her life has revolved around battling this disease, something she never imagined facing. As she says, if life didn't give us adversity and challenges. This story is too powerful and real for just one episode.

Chief Change Officer

#374 Nicole F. Roberts: Turning Science and Story into Impact—Part Two

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Now, going back to your book, Generosity Wins, what brought you in the very first place to write something like this and with Monty as your co-author?

Chief Change Officer

#374 Nicole F. Roberts: Turning Science and Story into Impact—Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into the No Strict Lines journey of Nicole Roberts.

Chief Change Officer

#374 Nicole F. Roberts: Turning Science and Story into Impact—Part Two

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Speaking from my own experience, there are so many stories like that. One great example is actually this show. I've never asked any guest to refer someone else, not once. Every guest who comes on, either I invited them or they reached out to me. My only focus is creating the best possible experience for them, making sure the episode is meaningful, smooth, and enjoyable. What happened?

Chief Change Officer

#374 Nicole F. Roberts: Turning Science and Story into Impact—Part Two

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More and more guests have told me they genuinely enjoyed the experience. Afterwards, they will say, Hey Vince, I actually know someone who would be a great fit for your show. One guest even referred five new guests. Completely unfronted. No commission, no referral fee, no expectations. It's not transactional.

Chief Change Officer

#374 Nicole F. Roberts: Turning Science and Story into Impact—Part Two

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It's just a natural return, if I can use this word, that comes from being a generous, thoughtful host. That's the ripple effect you were talking about.

Chief Change Officer

#374 Nicole F. Roberts: Turning Science and Story into Impact—Part Two

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But then you built a story around a fictional character, Emily. Why that choice? Why bring in a fictional element in a non-fiction business setting? And I'm also curious, why Emily? Why a female character, not a male one? Was there a particular reason behind that decision?

Chief Change Officer

#374 Nicole F. Roberts: Turning Science and Story into Impact—Part Two

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Let's come full circle to end our conversation. You mentioned that your longtime interest has been neuroscience. And every year, you produce a summit focused on brain health. I'll admit, I don't know much about this event. So I'd love for you to walk us through it. It's called Brain Summit. It happens around the Super Bowl weekend, which is interesting.

Chief Change Officer

#374 Nicole F. Roberts: Turning Science and Story into Impact—Part Two

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And yes, athletes deal with serious brain health issues due to the nature of the sport. But it's not just about them. Brain health is something that matters to everyone. So tell us more. What's your role in this event? What are you hoping to achieve, not just with this summit, but overall? What's the bigger mission behind your work in this space?

Chief Change Officer

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Great. Then I need to start planning for this year.

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Absolutely. Next year, I'll knock it down. And thank you again, Nicole. Both you and Monty have been incredibly generous with your time, your energy, your honesty. It really means a lot. And I genuinely appreciate how open and thoughtful you've been throughout this entire conversation. And yes, we overran a bit, but it was totally worth it. This was such a fun and inspiring conversation.

Chief Change Officer

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And anything else you need, just ask how to reach me. And that brings us to the end of this series. Nicole's journey is proof that you don't need a perfect plan to make a real impact. You just need purpose. a little courage, and a lot of listen. Whether it's neuroscience, generosity, or hospitality, her work reminds us that generosity isn't fluff. It's the talk and the walk in life and career.

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#374 Nicole F. Roberts: Turning Science and Story into Impact—Part Two

Nicole is a doctor of public health, co-authoring a business book called Generosity Wins with a seasoned CEO, Monty Wood, who happens to be one of our guests on the show. Nicole once posed her PhD to start a human rights firm. Just to give you a sense of how things go, in this two-part series, we talk about what happens when you let purpose guide your work instead of a perfect plan.

Chief Change Officer

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Let me say this. When I interviewed Monty, he shared a lot from his business background. his work with some major players, real tech titans. And he said things like, Vince, I saw them literally do this, build that. You could really feel impact through his stories. What stood out was how he brought a business lens to everything.

Chief Change Officer

#374 Nicole F. Roberts: Turning Science and Story into Impact—Part Two

We get into the science behind generosity, how real human stories shaped her book, and why the best leaders know when to ditch the rulebook. And she also helps run a brain summit every year during the Super Bowl. So this conversation goes places. Let's jump in.

Chief Change Officer

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And now, with you bringing in the science angle, I think the two of you really complement each other. Since Monty had that business focus, and I come from a business background too, having studied at Chicago Booth, I naturally asked him about something really specific, the ROI of generosity.

Chief Change Officer

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Ever since I first learned the term ROI, it was in a finance class, of course. We did all the usual calculations. But generosity, that isn't something you can plug into a formula. You can't always measure it. Or maybe you can somehow monitor it in a different way. That's why when Monty brought it up, this idea of generosity having a ripple effect, it really landed for me.

Chief Change Officer

#374 Nicole F. Roberts: Turning Science and Story into Impact—Part Two

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Honestly, I buy that concept. I've seen it play out in my own life and career. Doing things with no expectation, and then somehow more opportunities, more trust, more value come back around. So I definitely believe in it, but putting it into a business context, trying to tie generosity to metrics, that's where it gets tricky. I asked Monty about it directly.

Chief Change Officer

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If ROI is what we track in business, how do you track or even explain the ROI of generosity? You are not coming from a business world, but you know how strong this concept is in business. How do you think about measuring or recognizing the return on generosity?

Chief Change Officer

#70 US Gymnast Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Rising Above an Identity Crisis – Part One

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Yeah, like you said, it wasn't forced on you personally. although you were let go despite your performance. But that also opened up a chance for you to rethink, reposition, and as you mentioned, it was a friend who showed you a new door and you stepped through it. I'm curious about your choice-making in that moment, your thought process. What was it like when you decided to make that shift?

Chief Change Officer

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Why did it make sense for you? Was it about certain skills you had at that time? Or maybe the financial prospects? Perhaps you saw a bigger trend emerging, but I know for most people, it's not just about trends. Change has to resonate personally too. So I'd love to understand more about your thought process and decision making in that moment.

Chief Change Officer

#70 US Gymnast Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Rising Above an Identity Crisis – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. These days, we talk a lot about resilience. We can discuss the psychology of it all day long. But who actually walks the walk and talks the talk when it comes to resilience?

Chief Change Officer

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I think your reflection is really important because I've noticed a lot of people, including my friends, focus on things like money or friends when considering a career change. Right now, for example, AI is a huge trend and everyone knows is where the big money is. But jumping into it without personal alignment often feels like following the herd.

Chief Change Officer

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And instead of staying down, she jumped into technology, starting from scratch, and reinvented herself yet again. Today, in part one of our conversation, we are diving into Nina's journey, her training, her trials, and her setbacks. Then tomorrow in part two, we'll explore the tools Nina has developed over the years to help others rise above their challenges.

Chief Change Officer

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That's why I asked about how you identified your fit in tech. It's not just about chasing the next big thing. It's about finding a meaningful place for yourself. As you explained, your background in video, TV, and connecting with people gave you a unique edge. You didn't just leap into tech blindly.

Chief Change Officer

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You brought your skills with you and carved out a spot where your past experiences could make an impact. It was a new opportunity for both you and the company.

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Absolutely. And I think that's a great point. For anyone listening, the takeaway here is to think outside the box when it comes to your skills and experience. We often limit ourselves to what we have always done or the industry we know, but those same skills can often apply in ways we wouldn't initially expect. In my own experience,

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A guest on the show, an executive recruiter, once told me I would meet a great executive recruiter myself. At first, I was surprised. Recruiting wasn't something I've ever considered. But she pointed out that my ability to support talent, connect with people, and bring the right voices onto the show demonstrated qualities that could be valuable in her industry.

Chief Change Officer

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So just like your own story, it's about being creative and open-minded when exploring new directions. Sometimes it takes an outside perspective to see what we are really capable of.

Chief Change Officer

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Just now, Nina shared with us about her long journey, her training, her trials, and her setbacks. Tomorrow in part two, we'll explore the tools Nina has developed over the years to help others rise above their challenges. Tools like the reverse resume and successful timeline. We are not talking about your typical resume or conventional ideas of success. We are going beyond that.

Chief Change Officer

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Come back tomorrow and join us. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

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Tools like the reverse resume and successful timeline. We are not talking about your typical resume or conventional ideas of success. We are going beyond that. So let's begin this incredible journey with Nina. Thank you so much for having me on, Vince. It's a pleasure. Nina, you've had such an interesting and meaningful journey.

Chief Change Officer

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Early on, you were a professionally trained gymnast, but eventually you had to say goodbye to that world and transition into TV and journalism. Then you pivoted again, moving into tech, and now you are a speaker, coach, and consultant. A lot of changes. In my eyes, you truly embody the role of a Chief Change Officer at heart.

Chief Change Officer

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We're going to dive into these transitions, the trends you've seen, and everything in between. But first, let's start with a quick intro. Tell us about your background and journey, and then we'll dig deeper into different aspects of your experience.

Chief Change Officer

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People often associate change with resilience because, let's be honest, You need a resilient mindset to get through a transition, to survive before you thrive. And Nina, the reason I invited you to the show is because the kind of resilience you've developed is something truly unique. Unlike most people, you were in professional sports.

Chief Change Officer

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You spend about 15 years in gymnastics in the early part of your life. And you know that any professional sport requires intense training, like a form of military training in my eyes. It demands focus, resilience, constant competition, and the ability to bounce back from failure quickly. Can you share more about your experience in gymnastics? How did you get into it?

Chief Change Officer

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Why did you choose gymnastics? And how did that experience shape your resilience? I imagine it was a crucial foundation for the resilience you've carried forward into the rest of your life.

Chief Change Officer

#70 US Gymnast Nina Sossamon-Pogue: Rising Above an Identity Crisis – Part One

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I remember telling you about my first impression of gymnastics training. It actually came from watching the 1984 Olympics in LA. I was just a kid living in Hong Kong, and it was summer vacation, so I was allowed to watch TV every day, which was rare during school days. I watched those morning broadcasts, which were live from L.A. in the afternoon that time, I was so captivated by the U.S.

Chief Change Officer

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Professional athletes. Today, I'm sitting down with Nina Sossaman Polk, a former professional gymnast, who started her journey at about four years old and went on to join the US gymnastic team. In her own words, gymnastics is a perfect example of resilience. You literally fall down and get back up all day, every day, as you learn new skills.

Chief Change Officer

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gymnastic teams. They were amazing, incredible, winning all-round medals. Wow, that looks intense. That looks magical. So when you told me gymnastics was your day-to-day life back then, I was seriously impressed. But as you also shared, there came a point when you had to leave the sport, not because of the Olympics, but for other reasons.

Chief Change Officer

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Could you tell us more about what led you to step away from gymnastics?

Chief Change Officer

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You studied communication in college, then went into TV. So why communication? What drew you to it? And what made it compelling enough for you to turn it into a career?

Chief Change Officer

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That's why you started your career there. But then once again, you went through another transition and eventually moved into technology. How did that come about? And by the way, how long were you in the TV industry before making that switch? And what actually triggered it?

Chief Change Officer

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That mindset became part of Nina's DNA, and it carried her through some incredible twists and turns. From the heartbreak of not making the Olympic team to leaving the sport for good after an injury, she faced one identity crisis after another. But she didn't stop there. Nina built a successful journalism career that spent 17 years only to be let go despite being a beloved news anchor.

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As I'm listening to you, I'm visualizing this noble purpose as being at the top. And then these five principles you mentioned serve as the pillars supporting and driving that purpose. If I'm understanding correctly, these principles are the foundation for everything. I'd love to learn more about each of these fundamental behaviors. Could you walk me through them?

Chief Change Officer

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When it comes to these five behaviors, generosity, resourcefulness, co-creation, action, and gratitude. I know each one could probably have an entire episode of its own with so much depth behind them, but I still love to get an overview of what they mean in the context of your methodology. How do these behaviors show up? How can we nurture and manifest them?

Chief Change Officer

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Not just for our own benefit, but also for the benefit of the team.

Chief Change Officer

#236 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Don't burn bridges. Keep up with business connections and personal relationships.

Chief Change Officer

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In today's episode, I sit down with two guests, Edward Van Duden and Tricia Strong, to talk about connection and collaboration. Yesterday, Edward and Tricia reflected on their own collaborative journey, which started 10 years ago at Disley. They turned a positive work relationship into a sustainable personal friendship that has now grown into a business partnership.

Chief Change Officer

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Tushar, you've quoted some important statistics about the scale of these problems. and we've gone deep into the method and solutions. But I want to shift from the macro view to a more micro view. We know these issues have economic implications, but why do we even have these problems in the first place?

Chief Change Officer

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Another way to look at it is why is collaboration in organizations so difficult to embrace and practice? Is it due to office politics, ego, inexperience, or something else? Could you highlight some of the key hurdles you see when it comes to fostering real collaboration within a team?

Chief Change Officer

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and a co-authoring collaboration on a book about collaboration. Today, part two will dive into the vision and framework for collaboration centered on a noble purpose and five key behaviors. What are these behaviors? How can we practice them? And why is collaboration so challenging today? I assure you, the method isn't just another software solution.

Chief Change Officer

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I had the privilege of getting a sneak peek at the framework of your book. You've interviewed a lot of experienced and interesting figures to gather stories and lessons. I can't wait to read it myself once it hits the market. For today's listeners, whether they're managing a team, building a startup, or even a CEO of a larger firm.

Chief Change Officer

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What are some actionable DIY do-it-yourself tips they can start implementing right after listening to this episode? Edward, you mentioned before that collaboration is a process. So what's something they can do now to kickstart that engine and move forward more collaborative outcomes? Any quick practical advice for them?

Chief Change Officer

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

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It's far more human-centered than what we're used to seeing. Let's start collaborating. Before we dive into the five principles in your book and the noble purpose behind it, I want to ask, why does this book matter? On the flip side, what is the problem you're trying to solve with the book? From what you've shared with me so far, you believe collaboration

Chief Change Officer

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is the solution to many of the biggest workplace challenges. So if collaboration is the key, that means there are a lot of issues in the workplace today. What are those problems?

Chief Change Officer

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Because you never know when that connection or person could become your collaborator, business partner, or referral to a great opportunity. That's how I landed five job offers within three months after leaving a role that led to mental depression years ago. Today, though, it's so easy to burn and build bridges. You can add a friend in quotation in one second. and just as easily delete them.

Chief Change Officer

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So that's why the name of the book is Collaborate to Compete. Collaborate internally to compete successfully externally, right?

Chief Change Officer

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So tell me more about this noble purpose. How do you define it?

Chief Change Officer

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This user-friendly, in quotation, UI UX experience has seeped into our modern mindset, making it effortless to kick people out of our own circles or lives. But without sustainable connections, How can we collaborate, build stronger teams, and create outcomes that benefit everyone?

Chief Change Officer

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So if I understand correctly, after your time at Disney... Both of you went your separate ways, pursuing your own paths, but you stayed in close touch as friends. Then, at some point, you reunited and started working together again, forming a company, and even co-authoring a new book. Is that a fair way to summarize your 10-year journey together?

Chief Change Officer

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Don't burn bridges.

Chief Change Officer

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And both of you were sharing your memories. It made me reflect on my own experiences working in corporations. I've had some great memories and some not so great ones. I remember working with amazing colleagues, some more senior, some junior, or maybe at the same level, often in different offices and locations. These were people I had such a strong connection with even hanging out after work.

Chief Change Officer

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But as time passed, I moved on to other things, became an entrepreneur, and while I kept in touch with some of them, others drifted away. Our conversations became fewer, and the connection faded over time. sometimes naturally, sometimes with a sense of loss.

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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In today's episode, I sit down with two guests, Edward Van Duden and Tricia Strong, to talk about connection and collaboration. This is part one of our two-part series. Today, Edward and Tricia will look back on their own collaborative journey, which started 10 years ago at Disley. They turned a positive work relationship into a sustainable personal friendship

Chief Change Officer

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I guess what I'm trying to say here is, since we're talking about collaboration today, which I see as a form of relationship, I'm curious about your journey together. You started as work friends, obviously had a positive working relationship and then stayed in touch after your time at Disney.

Chief Change Officer

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But how did you sustain that work friendship and evolve it into a personal relationship and then eventually into a business partnership? I think this would be really meaningful to hear, especially in today's world with the rise of social media, building and maintaining real connections isn't easy.

Chief Change Officer

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So I love to hear your insights on how you kept that relationship strong and turned it into something much deeper. both personally and professionally.

Chief Change Officer

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Before we dive into the five principles in your book and the noble purpose behind it, I want to ask, why does this book matter? On the flip side, what is the problem you're trying to solve with the book? From what you've shared with me so far, you believe collaboration is the solution to many of the biggest workplace challenges. So if collaboration is the key,

Chief Change Officer

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that has now grown into a business partnership and a co-authoring collaboration on a book about collaboration. In tomorrow's episode, part two, we'll dive into the vision and framework for collaboration. centered on a noble purpose and five key behaviors. What are these behaviors? How can we practice them? And why is collaboration so challenging today?

Chief Change Officer

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That means there are a lot of issues in the workplace today. What are those problems? As you see them,

Chief Change Officer

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In the last 30 minutes, Edward and Frasier went down the memory lane and reflected on their own collaborative journey. It began 10 years ago at Disley. They turned a positive work relationship into a sustainable personal friendship that has now grown into a business partnership and co-authoring collaboration on a book about collaboration.

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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in tomorrow's episode, part two, will dive into the vision and framework for collaboration centered on a noble purpose and five key behaviors. What are these behaviors? How can we practice them? And why is collaboration so challenging today? I assure you, the methodology isn't just an other software solution. It's far more human-centric than what we're used to seeing.

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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I assure you, the method isn't just another software solution. is far more human-centered than what we're used to seeing. Let's start collaborating. Good morning, Edward and Tricia. Welcome to my show.

Chief Change Officer

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Yes, I'm happy to be here. We always start with a self-introduction. But today's episode is extra special because for the first time ever, I have not one, but two guests joining me. A unique moment for the show. Let's kick things off, Edward and Tricia, whichever one of you would like to go first. Share a bit about yourselves and your personal journey.

Chief Change Officer

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Then we'll go into how the two of you came together to collaborate. After all, collaboration is the key theme of today's episode. So let's hear your individual stories and then we'll get into how your paths crossed and what makes this collaboration so impactful.

Chief Change Officer

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Keep up with business connections and personal relationships because you never know when that connection or person could become your collaborator, business partner, or referral to a great opportunity. That's how I landed five job offers within three months after leaving a role that led to mental depression years ago. Today, though, it's so easy to burn and build bridges.

Chief Change Officer

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So you both met in Disley, right? I'd love to hear more about that first experience working together. Let's dive into the details. Edward, let's start with you. How did you feel when you first met Tricia? And how did this collaboration unfold from your perspective? And then, Trish here, we would love to hear your side of the story as well.

Chief Change Officer

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I think it will be really interesting to explore both viewpoints.

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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You can add a friend in quotation in one second. and just as easily delete them. This user-friendly, in quotation, UI UX experience has seeped into our modern mindset, making it effortless to kick people out of our own circles or lives. But without sustainable connections, How can we collaborate, build stronger teams, and create outcomes that benefit everyone?

Chief Change Officer

#235 From Disney Magic to Real-World Teamwork: Tricia & Edward’s Guide to Collaboration That Works – Part One

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Wow, 10 years ago, that's a long time. So after that first encounter at Disley, how did the working relationship evolve? Was it more day-to-day interaction? Or maybe project-based, on and off? Did you face any moments of confrontation or was it mostly collaborative? I'd like to hear how both of you describe the experience after that initial meeting.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Yeah, especially in Japan. Yes.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Now, for the last question. Japan is famous for many things, many good things. Yet one of them is its aging population. That's a major factor when it comes to career changes, risk-taking, and mindset shifts. At the same time, recruiters are actively searching for talent. There's a demand, but with an aging workforce, how does that dynamic play out in Japan's recruitment market today?

Chief Change Officer

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What are you seeing firsthand? How is this shaping hiring trends and opportunities?

Chief Change Officer

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So now you are a coach in addition to being a headhunter.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Right.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into career transformation with Gary Berman.

Chief Change Officer

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That's the end on this two-part series with Gary Berman. We've broken down the seven rules of career clarity and tackled the realities of Japan's talent market, where experienced professionals face ageism and companies struggle to adapt to change. The hiring landscape isn't evolving fast enough But that doesn't mean you have to stay stuck.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Carissa says it's no longer about following the old playbook. It's about rewriting your own. When change is the law of life, make your own law of change.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Yeah, like I said, a lot of us are conditioned by our environment. By the way, I studied accounting as my first major. So naturally, I became a CPA, Certified Public Accountant. But the truth is, I didn't enjoy the world. So I left the practice. We all start off following a certain path, whether it's because of societal expectations, family pressure, or financial goals.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Not necessarily chasing success, but just meeting financial responsibilities, supporting a family, paying a mortgage, keeping life stable. And over time, it's easy to just stay in that job. I mean, if you're making six or even seven figures, it's a really, really good income. And for some people, the more they earn, the harder it becomes to leave. The comfort zone gets too comfortable.

Chief Change Officer

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So even when they start thinking about change, actually making a move feels almost impossible.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Tell us more about your seven rules of career clarity. Give us the full framework. How do these seven rules, seven steps, help people find real and sustainable clarity for their decision and direction in life?

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

Gary is a recruiter, career coach, and Japan talent market expert who has spent 25 years helping professionals navigate change. But his own journey wasn't a straight line. Gary hitchhiked across North America, dropped out of college two times, built a global business, and burned out before finally finding his true calling.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Career isn't really a science or an art that you can formally study. Because, let's be honest, professors and researchers don't even change jobs themselves. Why would they study something like career change? If you try searching for academic papers on the subject, you won't find much. But what does exist is a wealth of skills, wisdom on managing, developing, and navigating careers.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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And these skills don't just come from career studies. They pull from leadership, economics, psychology, finance, and other areas of social science. Some of these insights are research-driven, some are teachable, and of course, they can be learned with the right guidance. That's why I see career intelligence

Chief Change Officer

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which is understanding how to adapt and make strategic career moves becoming more and more relevant. It's also one of the reasons I started this podcast show in the very first place because most of us weren't taught how to navigate career change. especially not in a world where uncertainty is now the norm, not the exception.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Gary, I remember you once mentioned that Japan is the hottest recruitment market in the world. Are you referring to recruiters trying to hire the best talent? Or are you talking about job applicants and career opportunities? What exactly makes Japan's recruitment market so competitive? I'd love to paint your brain on this.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Mm, yep.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

In this two-part series, we'll explore how he discovered his passion for coaching, the seven rules of career clarity, and the harsh realities of Japan's talent market, including ageism and the fear of change. Whether you're rethinking your career, hiring talent, or just wondering what's next, this series will change the way you see work. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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It all comes down to mindset, not just technology. Sure, you can use LinkedIn or other platforms to identify and reach out to talent. But at the end of the day, especially in Asia, there is a very strong cultural layer that technology alone cannot bridge. As someone who's also Asian, I understand that certain values like trust, stability, and loyalty play a huge role in career decisions.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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Even if technology helps find the right person, it is the human connections that actually convince them to make a move. And that's where foreign firms often struggle They don't always grasp the nuances of why candidates hesitate, why they stay in their comfort zones, or how deep cultural values influence career decisions. That's where you come in. You are the bridge between recruiters and talent.

Chief Change Officer

#234 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part Two

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From what I see, you're not just matching jobs with candidates. You're hand-holding both sides and guiding them through the process. And it makes sense because you are naturally good at connecting with people, understanding different perspectives, and communicating across cultures.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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What made you decide to return to recruiting? And how do you want it to be different this time?

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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Now, you've just brought up the final question of the day. Job seekers, whether they like it or not, have to navigate an AI-driven recruitment market. Personally, I still believe in the creativity, the human creativity you mentioned. as well as the human elements that make someone stand out as a desirable candidate.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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But not every recruiter is like you, and not every firm has policies and approaches like yours. So if you could give advice to job seekers, regardless of age or culture, what would it be? especially for those in their late 40s, 50s, or even 60s, who might have been in one industry for a long time, but whose skills and experiences could be applicable across different sectors.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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For candidates seeking changes and new opportunities, how can they position themselves better and stronger for this new norm?

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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Absolutely. That is reciprocity, the core essence of building relationships, every kind of relationship. Holly, thank you so much for not only your time, but your honest sharing. A lot of quotes I can create from your interview. So much information, really valuable information. Thank you so much.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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Wow, this is truly amazing to get this kind of feedback from a guest on the spot during the show. I'm very, very grateful, Holly. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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In the last episode, part one, we heard Holly's story of being a mother of two and taking 17 years to earn her college degree, all while starting and building a successful fitness franchise business. Now in part two, Holly will share with us why she decided to re-enter the recruitment industry. This time, she is the boss heading up a headhunting business.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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She will tell us about her human-first approach to serving not only her corporate clients, but also the candidates themselves. She will also offer valuable down-to-earth advice to job seekers. Holly, you've come full circle. You started as a recruiter, went through numerous transformations and challenges, and now you're back in recruiting. This time though, you're doing it your way.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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Wow. Based on what you just said, it sounds like I could be a perfect headhunter myself. Though, I have to admit, I haven't had any pleasant experiences with headhunters in my life so far.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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Are you looking for a job? We can surely talk about this offline. Aside from that, I believe a host, a headhunter, and a CEO are no different. We have a certain kind of superpower in seeing the potential in a person before they see it themselves or believe in it themselves. Don't you agree?

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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Just a few weeks ago, I released an episode where I talked to a good friend of mine, Mary Shea, who is now partnering with an AI-driven HR tech company. They help corporate recruiters and executive search firms locate desirable candidates, not just for transactional positions, but also for unique senior opportunities. In that interview, Mary explained how the technology works.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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I also shared my experience at age of 51, having job interview with some corporate recruiters that felt completely dehumanized. We discussed how AI might make the experience more personalized for experienced workers. Anyone interested can check out episode four in season two. But back to you, Holly, you're very much a people person, human-centric in your view.

Chief Change Officer

#181 AI Can Screen Resumes, But It Can’t Spot Great Humans—Holly Bond Explains Why

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Not to ask you to be at Oracle, but I would like to know in your opinion, how might AI technology add value to your process of searching for the right candidates? On top of that, what do you think is the competitive advantage of you as a human recruiter that AI cannot replace?

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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How did they help propel you forward and sustain you all the way to the finish line?

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is our first ever from Canada, Holly Bond. I used to live in Calgary, Alberta and Toronto, Ontario in Canada.

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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She has mastered turning change to her advantage, making her a natural fit for my show. After two months of emails back and forth, I finally convinced her to come on board. We did a 70-minute interview, which I've decided to break down into two parts.

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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In part one, this episode, we'll hear Holly's story of being a mother of two and taking 17 years to earn her college degree, all while starting and building a fitness business that turned into a successful franchise. In part two, Holly will share why she entered the headhunting business and her human-first approach to serving not only her corporate clients, but also the candidates themselves.

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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As you describe your experience, It sounds almost magical. You landed that TV interview and the next day you received over a hundred emails. Now, while that's absolutely amazing, I'm really curious about the flip side. Looking back, what was the most challenging moment for you along this journey?

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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In this part one of our interview, you just heard Holly's story of being a mother of two and taking 17 years to earn her college degree, all while starting and building a fitness business that turned into a successful franchise.

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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In the next episode, the part two of our interview, Holly will share why she entered the headhunting business and her human first approach to serving not only her corporate clients, but also the candidates themselves. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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Talking to Holly really brings back memories of my adolescence and college days in Canada. Holly is special in my eyes. Why? She's now the president of a head hunting firm I'll be honest, in my career so far, I haven't worked well with headhunters. I've mostly landed jobs through networking. But something on Holly's LinkedIn profile and her company's website caught my eye.

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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Today, we all talk about purpose and making an impact. But when you were younger, in the 80s and 90s, it was all about making money and raising a family. You know, the American dream or in your case, the Canadian dream, owning a house and all that. Looking back at your career, have you identified any particular drivers or motivations behind every move you've made so far?

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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It said, we are a talent management and development firm with unshakable belief that change is a good thing. I was skeptical at first. It could just be empty words. But then I dug deeper and discovered that Holly had built a very successful franchise business from the ground up before moving into the headhunting business. From that moment, I knew Holly truly believes that change is a good thing.

Chief Change Officer

#180 Holly Bond: From Fitness Franchises to Entrepreneurial Faceplants

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You must be really proud of yourself, of what you've achieved with Bulldog Interactive Fitness. Can you share with us the humble beginnings of starting this business? I remember you mentioned that it all began with the idea of a gym. Tell us about your journey, not just the successes, but also the ups and downs, the challenges. More importantly, how did you learn from those challenges?

Chief Change Officer

#103 Jennifer Selby Long: Navigating Power, Politics, and Personal Change

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Earlier, you mentioned the do's and the don'ts when going through change. that reminded me of an other model often applied to organizations from the well-known organizational psychologist, Kurt Lewin. I've brought this up in season one, episode two, about Tim Pei-Ling's own transformation. His model is simple but powerful. There's the first stage, freeze, where you pause and assess.

Chief Change Officer

#103 Jennifer Selby Long: Navigating Power, Politics, and Personal Change

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In the last episode, we talked about the natural process of personal change. We also touched on self doubt and self sabotage. In this episode, we'll dive deeper. We'll discuss how neuroscience can help manage self sabotage We'll explore how to make career moves that work in your favor instead of just jumping from one bad situation to another.

Chief Change Officer

#103 Jennifer Selby Long: Navigating Power, Politics, and Personal Change

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Then comes change, where you go through the transformation. Finally, there's unfreeze, where you solidify your new identity or the new you. So it's like freeze, change, and unfreeze. A lot of business school professors reference this model for organizational change. Are you familiar with this?

Chief Change Officer

#103 Jennifer Selby Long: Navigating Power, Politics, and Personal Change

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Would you say that if someone gets stuck in the freeze phase but eventually manages to unfreeze themselves, it's a win? How would you personally define a successful change or a win when it comes to going through transformation?

Chief Change Officer

#103 Jennifer Selby Long: Navigating Power, Politics, and Personal Change

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So far, throughout our interview, we've focused a lot on how you help leaders drive, lead, and manage change within the teams and organizations. Many of our listeners might be change leaders or change managers in their own spaces or organizations. Yet, the other group of people listening might be experiencing changes themselves. They could be considering making a change. Or they may be forced.

Chief Change Officer

#103 Jennifer Selby Long: Navigating Power, Politics, and Personal Change

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to make a change because they've left their previous employer. You mentioned to me before that a situation often arises when people make a big career leap, sometimes wanting to escape workplace politics or ineffective boss. They might land a new job with similar terms, only to find themselves working for another ineffective boss. The goal, the real goal, is to make a change for the better.

Chief Change Officer

#103 Jennifer Selby Long: Navigating Power, Politics, and Personal Change

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But these people end up jumping from one lousy situation to another. I know you got some really good insights about that, about how people should try to manage the situation differently. Even if they eventually decide to change jobs, they could and they should aim for a truly better outcome. Could you share with us some common mistakes people make

Chief Change Officer

#103 Jennifer Selby Long: Navigating Power, Politics, and Personal Change

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when dealing with ineffective boss and how they might better handle the situation in order to set themselves up for more positive change.

Chief Change Officer

#103 Jennifer Selby Long: Navigating Power, Politics, and Personal Change

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Thank you.

Chief Change Officer

#103 Jennifer Selby Long: Navigating Power, Politics, and Personal Change

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Yes, absolutely. There's still so much to unpack. And not just when it comes to dealing with a boss, but also navigating office politics. These dynamics aren't just about one-on-one relationships. There are other players involved too. Interestingly, some people avoid using the term politics when discussing office environments.

Chief Change Officer

#103 Jennifer Selby Long: Navigating Power, Politics, and Personal Change

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In fact, if you search for office politics on Google or LinkedIn, you won't find as much conversation about it as you might expect. But in reality, whether you're in a large corporation or a small team, as long as you're working with people, there's an inherent level of politics at play. And these politics play a crucial role, especially when it comes to driving change.

Chief Change Officer

#103 Jennifer Selby Long: Navigating Power, Politics, and Personal Change

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You mentioned how some of your clients, including senior leaders, face power struggles or have to navigate complex stakeholder relationships. Power dynamics come into play, and as they think about leaving a job or dealing with ineffective boss, they also have to consider the bigger political picture they're in.

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#103 Jennifer Selby Long: Navigating Power, Politics, and Personal Change

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I feel like this is an element often overlooked in the discussion of change management and leadership. Could you share your thoughts or experiences in helping clients manage these risks? How do you support them in balancing personal and organizational change? while surviving navigating the politics that comes with it.

Chief Change Officer

#103 Jennifer Selby Long: Navigating Power, Politics, and Personal Change

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#103 Jennifer Selby Long: Navigating Power, Politics, and Personal Change

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She spent 30 years helping tech leaders navigate the ever-changing world of technology and lead organizational transformation. In recent years, her focus has been on cybersecurity, digital transformation, and user experience. But don't tune out if these areas don't apply to you. What Jennifer shares is relevant for anyone who wants to thrive in today's fast-paced world.

Chief Change Officer

#103 Jennifer Selby Long: Navigating Power, Politics, and Personal Change

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How do we deal with judgment? Judging ourselves? Judging others? Honestly, this aspect of judgment has come up a lot for me. In fact, in the second episode of season three, in which I spoke to Benedict from France, he'd mentioned the importance of being kind or kinder to ourselves. Yet we often forget that. Yes. If a colleague or someone else makes a mistake, I would say, it's okay, let's fix it.

Chief Change Officer

#103 Jennifer Selby Long: Navigating Power, Politics, and Personal Change

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No need to blame, just move forward. But when I make the mistake, what do I do? Yes, I fixed. But at the same time, I start blaming myself. I think, why did I make this mistake? What's wrong with me? I become harsh on myself, much harsher than I am with others. In those moments, I realize I'm not loving myself enough.

Chief Change Officer

#103 Jennifer Selby Long: Navigating Power, Politics, and Personal Change

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This constant self-judgment can be really detrimental if we don't learn to manage it properly. Don't you think?

Chief Change Officer

#103 Jennifer Selby Long: Navigating Power, Politics, and Personal Change

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Stick with me for 30 minutes and you'll find something valuable in this conversation. This episode and the last one is all about guiding yourself through personal transformation. It's about stepping into your next opportunity. Leaders can't successfully drive organization change without first mastering their own personal growth.

Chief Change Officer

#103 Jennifer Selby Long: Navigating Power, Politics, and Personal Change

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In our last episode, we sat down with Jennifer Selby Long.

Chief Change Officer

#103 Jennifer Selby Long: Navigating Power, Politics, and Personal Change

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Through all these years, you've worked with so many different people. each with their own unique characters and situations. I'm curious, looking back, can you recall any cases where you feel you didn't succeed in helping a client navigate or take charge of a change?

Chief Change Officer

#103 Jennifer Selby Long: Navigating Power, Politics, and Personal Change

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By failure, I don't necessarily mean they disengaged with you, but rather the impact you aimed to create didn't work out as well as expected. Could you share one of those experiences? More importantly, what did you learn from it? Why do you think it was so challenging in that specific situation?

Chief Change Officer

#102 Jennifer Selby Long: Turning Self-Doubt into Self-Leadership

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A leader cannot successfully drive organizational change without first mastering their own personal transformation. So we'll dive into why understanding the natural process of personal change can help you fast-track your transformation.

Chief Change Officer

#102 Jennifer Selby Long: Turning Self-Doubt into Self-Leadership

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how to manage self-doubt, avoid sabotaging your own progress, and how to make career moves that truly work in your favor instead of simply running away from one undesirable situation to the next. Let's get started. Jennifer, tell us a bit about yourself. I know you've been in coaching for a long time. You specialize in coaching tech leaders manage and navigate change.

Chief Change Officer

#102 Jennifer Selby Long: Turning Self-Doubt into Self-Leadership

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As you were sharing, it brought back some personal memories for me, both in terms of personal change and organizational change I experienced during my time in the corporate world.

Chief Change Officer

#102 Jennifer Selby Long: Turning Self-Doubt into Self-Leadership

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You mentioned personal change, the do's and the don'ts, and I can see how those apply even to individuals making major transitions like leaving a corporate job to become an entrepreneur or starting a private practice, much like you did. Yes.

Chief Change Officer

#102 Jennifer Selby Long: Turning Self-Doubt into Self-Leadership

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As you mentioned the do's and don'ts in personal change, I can think of some specific examples like controlling your expenses while investing in your own new venture. It's important to generate hope, hold on to it, and get some quick wins. But what happens 12 or 18 months down the road? The process is challenging, especially when you're still building your practice. You are uncertain.

Chief Change Officer

#102 Jennifer Selby Long: Turning Self-Doubt into Self-Leadership

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And then you look at your friends, former classmates. They are getting promotions, landing new jobs as the big guys, the CEOs of big companies. And they seem to be doing so well. Meanwhile, you left a six figure income to pursue something on your own, something unknown, something unproven, and you start questioning yourself. Self-doubt sneaks in, which can lead to what I call self-sabotage.

Chief Change Officer

#102 Jennifer Selby Long: Turning Self-Doubt into Self-Leadership

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Could you share your thoughts on this situation? It's something I've personally experienced and struggled with. It's not easy. I love to hear how you help your clients navigate this, whether they're facing personal change or dealing with external changes that they're part of but can't fully control. Rationally, they may want to move forward, but emotionally is a different story.

Chief Change Officer

#102 Jennifer Selby Long: Turning Self-Doubt into Self-Leadership

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Earlier, we talked about the natural personal process of change and touched on self-doubt and self-sabotage. In the next episode... We'll dive deeper into managing self-sabotage with the help of neuroscience and explore how to make career moves that truly work in your favor instead of just escaping one undesirable situation after another. Be sure to check back in the next 48 hours.

Chief Change Officer

#102 Jennifer Selby Long: Turning Self-Doubt into Self-Leadership

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The next episode will be ready for you. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#102 Jennifer Selby Long: Turning Self-Doubt into Self-Leadership

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Can you tell us more about that?

Chief Change Officer

#102 Jennifer Selby Long: Turning Self-Doubt into Self-Leadership

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Today, I'm sitting down with Jennifer Selby Long, who has spent the last 30 years helping tech leaders navigate the ways of tech evolution, leading and managing organizational change. In recent years, her focus has been on cybersecurity, digital transformation, and user experience. But don't tune out just yet. If you are not in those views,

Chief Change Officer

#102 Jennifer Selby Long: Turning Self-Doubt into Self-Leadership

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So basically, you are helping a leader who sits at the center of a complex situation. They may have senior people above them, perhaps a CEO reporting to a board of directors, or they may be the CEO themselves. Below them, they have a whole team of people, some more senior, some at operational or junior level.

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#102 Jennifer Selby Long: Turning Self-Doubt into Self-Leadership

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This leader has to engage, convince, and motivate all these people to buy into the change and act on it. But each of these stakeholders has their own agenda. And that's not even touching on the emotional aspects involved.

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#102 Jennifer Selby Long: Turning Self-Doubt into Self-Leadership

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So you are helping this person in the middle, managing everyone around them while also guiding them on a more personal level, helping them find peace and balance while navigating change. Is that a good summary of what you do now?

Chief Change Officer

#102 Jennifer Selby Long: Turning Self-Doubt into Self-Leadership

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Technology is such a huge and evolving field. I'm sure when you first started back in the 90s, as you said, the project found you. And now here we are in 2024 going into 2025. So much has changed in the tech space over the years. Could you be more specific about what areas of leadership you focus on today?

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#102 Jennifer Selby Long: Turning Self-Doubt into Self-Leadership

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And maybe educate us a bit on how this evolution in technology and leadership has played out over the years?

Chief Change Officer

#102 Jennifer Selby Long: Turning Self-Doubt into Self-Leadership

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Before we dive into your own experiences working with these leaders, sharing examples and stories, I'm curious, have you ever been coached yourself? Maybe through leadership training or personal coaching along the way? I'd love to hear about your experience as a learner, as a student being coached, and how that experience has shaped or enhanced your abilities to help your clients today.

Chief Change Officer

#102 Jennifer Selby Long: Turning Self-Doubt into Self-Leadership

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What Jennifer shares is relevant to anyone looking to thrive in today's fast changing world. Give me 30 seconds and I guarantee you'll find something valuable in this conversation. This episode and the next is all about how to guide yourself through personal transformation and step into your next opportunity.

Chief Change Officer

#102 Jennifer Selby Long: Turning Self-Doubt into Self-Leadership

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#102 Jennifer Selby Long: Turning Self-Doubt into Self-Leadership

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Now let's explore your experience coaching others. You have a lot of depth. And one of the key topics we discussed was the process you call the natural personal process of change. Could you walk us through what that is, the do's, the don'ts, and some of the dangerous myths around it? And if it helps, give us examples, show us how it works in practice.

Chief Change Officer

#294 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Jodi Silverman, founder of the Moms Who Dare community and someone who knows what it's like to face a totally quiet house and wonder what comes next.

Chief Change Officer

#294 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part One

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so far among the women you've connected with what are some of the common challenges they face and with those challenges in mind what kinds of solutions have you seen either from the group or once you've helped them discover

Chief Change Officer

#294 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part One

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That's it for today. We heard how Jodi went from print business to purpose. launched a movement by accident, and finally gave herself permission to be more than mother. But there's more. In part two, we'll dive into parenting when you are no longer the fixer, how to rediscover what lights you up, and why Jodi believes midlife isn't a crisis. is a comeback. See you there.

Chief Change Officer

#294 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, Take care.

Chief Change Officer

#294 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part One

141.549

First, I'm stepping out of my comfort zone and doing this show on video for the very first time. So yes, I dressed up for the occasion. And second, I'm joined by someone who's also part of this little leap into something new. Jodi, thank you so much for being here and for jumping into this journey with me.

Chief Change Officer

#294 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part One

191.767

Sure, Jodi is the founder of a community called Moms Who Dare. We'll talk more about that, especially the word dare and why it matters for mothers. But first things first, Jodi, what is your story? I know you're a mom, obviously, but what about your career journey, job history, your family?

Chief Change Officer

#294 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part One

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Let's start there and then we'll get into parenting, moms, and the whole idea of the empty nest, which is our main theme today.

Chief Change Officer

#294 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part One

460.901

I have to confess, I'm not a parent. I made the decision pretty early on that I wouldn't have children. So that was my choice. That means there are certain things about parenting I may never fully understand. So bear with me if I ask questions that might seem a bit off. Now, you mentioned that at some point you became an entrepreneur. You dared, you took the leap, but you also made sacrifices.

Chief Change Officer

#294 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part One

502.816

At the same time, you had the opportunity to share life moments with your children, watching them grow up. Looking back to when your daughter first left home, those early empty net moments. How did she feel? Was it lonely? Would you describe it as an identity crisis, if I can use that term?

Chief Change Officer

#294 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part One

67.929

She built a print business, raised a family, and then realized it was time to find something that lit her up again. In this two-part series, we talk about letting go of old roles, parenting when you are no longer the fixer, and why your next chapter doesn't have to look like your last one. Jody's story is honest, warm, and refreshingly real. Let's get into it.

Chief Change Officer

#294 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part One

713.582

It actually starts earlier, around age 10 or even 11, when they begin pulling away from Suddenly, they got their own friends, their own life. And you hear things like, leave me alone. You know they will eventually leave home. That part is certain. But even when you see it coming, it still hits hard when it happens.

Chief Change Officer

#294 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part One

847.613

Earlier, I used the term identity crisis. And clearly, you moved past it. In fact, you went on to create this amazing community, Moms Who Dare. What sparked that? What made you decide to start something like this in the very first place?

Chief Change Officer

#293 Wayland Lum: From Booth to the Battlefield of the Mind

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Second, the eight principles of modern leadership he creates for his leadership clients. Third, his mission for human and AI coaching partnerships. Let's get started. Wayland, welcome to our show. Finally, I got you on the call with me.

Chief Change Officer

#293 Wayland Lum: From Booth to the Battlefield of the Mind

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Wow. As I was listening to you, two things really jumped out at me. First, you hit on this idea that leadership is a choice. that actually takes me back to my days at Chicago Booth. There was this professor, Linda Ginzel, who used to drill that idea into our heads constantly. Leadership was a choice, she would say.

Chief Change Officer

#293 Wayland Lum: From Booth to the Battlefield of the Mind

1339.818

And hearing what you talk, it's clear that idea really lines up with what you're describing. The other thing that struck me was your take on fear and courage. It reminds me of this animated movie, Inside Out. Have you seen it yourselves? They just released the sequel. The movie is all about human emotion. And there's this interesting dynamic between joy and sadness in the movie.

Chief Change Officer

#293 Wayland Lum: From Booth to the Battlefield of the Mind

134.714

If my memory serves me right, last time we met in person, it was in London. And last time I went to Texas, it was before COVID for South by Southwest. Time flies, yet I'm happy that we've kept in contact, we've reunited at some point, and now you come to my show to share your wisdom and insights with the audience. Thank you so much. How are you doing?

Chief Change Officer

#293 Wayland Lum: From Booth to the Battlefield of the Mind

1373.539

At first, they seem like totally opposites, right? As the story unfolds, you start to see how they're actually connected. The big lesson is that you can't really appreciate joy if you've never experienced sadness. I see a similar principle in what you were saying about fear and courage. They are not as separate as we might think.

Chief Change Officer

#293 Wayland Lum: From Booth to the Battlefield of the Mind

1405.678

They are two sides of the same coin, each one giving meaning to the other. Does this resonate with what you're getting at?

Chief Change Officer

#293 Wayland Lum: From Booth to the Battlefield of the Mind

1497.622

Wayland has left us so much to reflect on and explore. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#293 Wayland Lum: From Booth to the Battlefield of the Mind

Wei-Lan, let's start with your history. Your career in HR has been nothing short of remarkable. In college, you studied industrial and organizational psychology. Then after graduation, you've worked at some of the biggest and most influential institutions in the world, including the highest value company of the present day, NVIDIA. a global organizational consulting firm, CoinFerry.

Chief Change Officer

#293 Wayland Lum: From Booth to the Battlefield of the Mind

217.483

You've even spent eight years in Chicago and London, shaping the careers of MBA students at the top one business school, Chicago Booth. Now you're in Texas running your own leadership practice. Can you walk us through your career evolution?

Chief Change Officer

#293 Wayland Lum: From Booth to the Battlefield of the Mind

314.076

Here's what I find truly admiring and courageous of you. You've taken the leap from these large, prestigious organizations to running your own leadership practice. Many people will shine away from that, taking to their comfort zone the stable paycheck and the prestige of a big corporate name and a nice business card. But you did not.

Chief Change Officer

#293 Wayland Lum: From Booth to the Battlefield of the Mind

343.194

What was the critical aha moment that led you down this path of building your own practice? Was there a specific experience that made you think, this is it. I just need to do this. And once you made that decision, how did the transition actually play out?

Chief Change Officer

#293 Wayland Lum: From Booth to the Battlefield of the Mind

48.255

Back in college, he studied industrial and organizational psychology. Then after graduation, he worked at some of the biggest and most influential institutions in the world, including the highest valued company of the present day, Nvidia, and a global organizational consulting firm, CoinFerry.

Chief Change Officer

#293 Wayland Lum: From Booth to the Battlefield of the Mind

523.807

I am 200% agreeable with your choice in walking the walk and talking the talk. In a world where a lot of people just talk, a lot of times they will talk very, very loud without much substance at all. Walking the walk and talking the talk becomes very precious and courageous. Unfortunately, it is also something that is silenced by the noise in the world, but that's what makes a true leader.

Chief Change Officer

#293 Wayland Lum: From Booth to the Battlefield of the Mind

562.099

You are a coach, yet I'm curious, have you ever been on the other side of the coaching relationship? What was it like being coached and how has that experience shaped your approach with your own clients today?

Chief Change Officer

#293 Wayland Lum: From Booth to the Battlefield of the Mind

7.614

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is from Austin, Texas, in the United States, Wayland Long. His career in HR has nothing short of remarkable.

Chief Change Officer

#293 Wayland Lum: From Booth to the Battlefield of the Mind

700.447

on your LinkedIn profile, you have this statement. We develop modern leaders to face the biggest business challenges. Speaking of leaders, who are the people you typically work with? Can you paint a picture for our listeners of the kinds of leaders you coach?

Chief Change Officer

#293 Wayland Lum: From Booth to the Battlefield of the Mind

72.596

He also spent eight years at Chicago Booth School of Business, helping MBA students shape their career futures. Now, he's in Texas running his own leadership practice. On this show, we'll explore three areas of interest. First, his career evolution from big corporations to consulting to business school and private practice.

Chief Change Officer

#293 Wayland Lum: From Booth to the Battlefield of the Mind

827.418

You know, we hear the term modern leadership thrown around a lot these days. I was wondering, what does that actually mean to you? How would you define modern in the context of leadership?

Chief Change Officer

#293 Wayland Lum: From Booth to the Battlefield of the Mind

950.896

For example, one of those is nature as majestic teacher. You're right. Nature serves as a timeless source of wisdom. Wisdom is both ancient and modern. Here's another one. Embrace life's stages and seasons. Every person is born, lives, and dies. We have seasons in life. Spring, summer, fall and winter. On this show, unfortunately, we can't go through all of those principles in details.

Chief Change Officer

#293 Wayland Lum: From Booth to the Battlefield of the Mind

988.026

But could we explore those a bit? Maybe you could share some real-world examples or stories that illustrate them that you use to help your clients become a modern leader to face, to embrace, and to master the biggest challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#292 César Couto Ferreira: Don’t Believe the Hype—Design the Legacy

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Cecil Coutu Ferreira from Portugal, a beautiful, beautiful country I visited a few years ago to join the Web Summit in Lisbon as a guest and a speaker.

Chief Change Officer

#292 César Couto Ferreira: Don’t Believe the Hype—Design the Legacy

1327.839

Last question of the day. As a former media executive, what advice would you give to people who are deeply immersed in social media?

Chief Change Officer

#292 César Couto Ferreira: Don’t Believe the Hype—Design the Legacy

1373.573

Thank you so much for your wise words and of course your time. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#292 César Couto Ferreira: Don’t Believe the Hype—Design the Legacy

357.003

I think we're looking at something much, much bigger than just a personal transformation. Your three-minute career story is not only your own evolution, but also a pivotal shift in the entire media and entertainment industry. From the analog world to the digital and social media age,

Chief Change Officer

#292 César Couto Ferreira: Don’t Believe the Hype—Design the Legacy

479.447

One thing I surely appreciate, and I think you'll echo this, is that working in big corporations, no matter the industry, can be an incredible training ground. The opportunities are massive with a powerful brand, lending prestige to your resume. But at the end of the day, much of what you work on isn't really your own intellectual property.

Chief Change Officer

#292 César Couto Ferreira: Don’t Believe the Hype—Design the Legacy

510.706

With that in mind, and considering you moved on back then, I'm curious about your thought process behind this decision. The reason I'm asking is that many of us, as we develop our career paths, face moments that are either expected or completely out of the blue. Each decision, each transition, I believe, is a delicate balance between logic and psychology.

Chief Change Officer

#292 César Couto Ferreira: Don’t Believe the Hype—Design the Legacy

53.723

The people are warm. The food is great. The sea and the sky are so blue. I surely want to go back. This episode is like a real-life version of the popular HBO TV series, Secession. I'm sure many of you watched the show. It's not just about a secession war for the top job of CEO within a super wealthy and powerful family, but also about the war in old media versus new media and tech.

Chief Change Officer

#292 César Couto Ferreira: Don’t Believe the Hype—Design the Legacy

544.525

You mentioned earlier that while you are trained in science with a very logical mind, you're also very into art, into creative work, into philosophy. So back then, how did you navigate this balance when making career decisions?

Chief Change Officer

#292 César Couto Ferreira: Don’t Believe the Hype—Design the Legacy

741.315

Your experience reminds me of the movie, Jerry Maguire. Have you seen it yourself? Your work was essentially a people-first industry. Yet, oftentimes, these very people are treated more like products. And when you truly care about individuals as real humans with lives, worries, emotions, and inevitable endpoints, it changes everything.

Chief Change Officer

#292 César Couto Ferreira: Don’t Believe the Hype—Design the Legacy

778.095

Once you delve into the business aspects, as well as the personal connections with these individuals you interact with daily, it creates a profound internal conflict. I think of it as a struggle between two mindsets. Or the usual saying, drama is the reality, reality is the drama.

Chief Change Officer

#292 César Couto Ferreira: Don’t Believe the Hype—Design the Legacy

849.974

Artists of change. Yes. Change is an art more than a science. You work in a media industry. It's always about the glamour. You travel to all those places, parties, stores.

Chief Change Officer

#292 César Couto Ferreira: Don’t Believe the Hype—Design the Legacy

895.18

You've told me before that you're all in for building a legacy. After experiencing the highs and lows of the media and entertainment industry, you've gone on to build ventures and venture ecosystem in Brazil and back home in Portugal. A key highlight, I believe, has been your involvement with the Web Summit in Lisbon. While Patty Cosgrave might be the face and voice of the summit,

Chief Change Officer

#292 César Couto Ferreira: Don’t Believe the Hype—Design the Legacy

91.334

a succession from old money to new money. Since the beginning of the century, Cecil has been involved in this transformation from analog to digital media, from a DJ and TV presenter to an MTV Networks executive, working with Madonna and all the music stars. He's seen the bright and the dark sides of 21st century media and entertainment. Without further ado, let's get into the war.

Chief Change Officer

#292 César Couto Ferreira: Don’t Believe the Hype—Design the Legacy

928.595

You've played a crucial role at a national level, influencing the government to take a leap of faith in integrating tourism with technology. Share with us your involvement in bringing this major event to the forefront. And looking at the bigger picture, what kind of legacy are you aiming to build that makes you proud

Chief Change Officer

#360 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part Two

101.805

We'll discuss the resistance to change because of poorly designed processes and how improving these processes led to much greater acceptance. We'll talk about the importance of empathy, curiosity, and ownership in driving change. We'll also cover how AI is reshaping education and the challenges institutions face in integrating this technology.

Chief Change Officer

#360 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part Two

12.99

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I welcome Dr. Bridget Burns from the University Innovation Alliance.

Chief Change Officer

#360 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part Two

136.121

Lastly, we'll explore the crucial transition from education to employment and how her organization is helping students achieve better life outcomes. Sit back and enjoy this unfiltered conversation packed with insights and practical advice. Yeah, empathy, curiosity, and ownership are crucial for change. Like you said, no one really likes change unless it benefits them in some way.

Chief Change Officer

#360 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part Two

1441.644

Yes, I can't wait for you to announce the new goals because I can see this as a global issue for higher education institutions. Just a quick story to share with you. When you talk about career centers, I totally agree. And like a business, your clients are the students. But if the shop is set up in the basement, the customers won't go there.

Chief Change Officer

#360 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part Two

1470.398

Why not go to your customer directly, meaning the classroom, as you mentioned? From my experience, when I studied in the States, I attended Yale School of Management as an international MBA student. In the US, especially for brand-name MBA programs, they're all well-funded, have a lot of resources. From day one, they started talking about careers.

Chief Change Officer

#360 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part Two

1501.84

preparing us for interviews and summer internships right from the start. That was just in August and September. And they were already talking about getting our resumes polished and reaching out to potential employers and alumni for informational interview. At first, I found it very stressful, but it was crucial training. They immersed us in the mindset and skillset needed

Chief Change Officer

#360 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part Two

1530.16

So by the time we graduated, we were better prepared. I graduated right after 9-1-1, which wasn't an encouraging job market. But I acquired essential career skills during those two years, even before LinkedIn and other technologies were in place.

Chief Change Officer

#360 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part Two

1552.736

I think this kind of preparation is vital for undergraduates, regardless of whether they are at a state, university, an Ivy League school, or anywhere else. At the end of the day, we study something we are interested in, and we want to use that knowledge to make money, support ourselves, and help others. We want to feel fulfilled.

Chief Change Officer

#360 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part Two

1577.929

Education is a crucial means for us to achieve our goals and contribute to the society. If there are hurdles that hinder the process, it affects the mobility and progress of society, leading to social and economic problems. Bridget, I really appreciate your time. I know we overran, but I didn't want to cut you off because you have so much valuable insights to share.

Chief Change Officer

#360 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part Two

1611.53

I've learned a lot from you today.

Chief Change Officer

#360 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part Two

1633.006

Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#360 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part Two

It also needs to generate collective benefits. People often ask, why does change? How can we make things better? Why does my contribution matter in this case or that case? How can I help? Maybe I can help more than you expected. Ownership isn't just about being informed or notified. It's about contributing to the evolution of the change and being responsible for the outcome.

Chief Change Officer

#360 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part Two

213.337

If the outcome isn't as good as expected, how can we work together to make it better? This sense of ownership, this power of ownership is so impactful.

Chief Change Officer

#360 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part Two

344.915

Honestly, if I had an office and someone came in and said, hey, we are going to implement this change. And because of that, I'm going to move from my corner office to a shared desk in a large area. I wouldn't be happy either. I can totally resonate with that scenario. Speaking of humanity, there's one growing area we are all watching closely.

Chief Change Officer

#360 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part Two

375.419

AI is here to stay and will impact all areas of our lives, including education. There's a lot, a lot of hope for its potential in education. So for a change leader like you, the question isn't just about integrating AI into higher education, but how to make the best use of it.

Chief Change Officer

#360 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part Two

403.502

Based on your experience working with these leaders and institutions, what could be the hurdles or challenges for the institutions in embracing and integrating AI into teaching, learning, and administration? How can they create a collective intelligence scenario that many people are looking forward to?

Chief Change Officer

#360 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part Two

48.568

Bridget and I met at South by Southwest when we were on the same judging panel for startups in education technology. That was a time before COVID. Many changes have occurred ever since. Bridget has navigated these changes firsthand in higher education.

Chief Change Officer

#360 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part Two

73.114

She's now leading a university innovation alliance focused on improving graduation outcomes for students from low-income families, a mission tied closely to her own background. In this episode, we'll explore how she convinced 11 schools to work together shifting the paradigm from competition to collaboration.

Chief Change Officer

#360 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part Two

741.533

Your response is totally relevant, not just about AI. But in other matter, I want to get your take on before we conclude this interview, which is the student outcome. Youth help a lot of students. According to your website, over 68,000 from low-income backgrounds are expected to graduate by 2025. That's a significant achievement and an important KPI.

Chief Change Officer

#360 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part Two

778.504

Now, given our discussion about AI, technology, and the job market, it's clear that the type and nature of jobs are changing rapidly. Ultimately, we go to college to get a job upon graduation. So, outcome for UIA or any school isn't just about graduation. It's about helping students achieve better life outcomes through education.

Chief Change Officer

#360 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part Two

810.342

From graduation to employment, this transition from learning to earning is crucial. In terms of UIA, what have you done to help students move from education to employment? Perhaps is there something currently in place or part of your future vision? Can you share with us what's happening at this stage?

Chief Change Officer

#359 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part One

101.856

We'll discuss the resistance to change because of poorly designed processes and how improving these processes led to much greater acceptance. We'll talk about the importance of empathy, curiosity, and ownership in driving change. We'll also cover how AI is reshaping education and the challenges institutions face in integrating this technology.

Chief Change Officer

#359 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part One

1144.426

Speaking of delivering outcome, I recall from one of your recent speeches that you mentioned people are not actually resistant to change. They resist poorly designed processes. Do you have any specific examples where resistance was due to a poorly designed process? And then once the process was improved, you started seeing more and more acceptance?

Chief Change Officer

#359 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I welcome Dr. Bridget Burns from the University Innovation Alliance.

Chief Change Officer

#359 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part One

136.17

Lastly, we'll explore the crucial transition from education to employment and how her organization is helping students achieve better life outcomes. Sit back and enjoy this unfiltered conversation packed with insights and practical advice. Bridget, welcome. It's been a long time since South by Southwest.

Chief Change Officer

#359 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part One

1757.796

Yeah, empathy, curiosity, and ownership are crucial for change. Like you said, no one really likes change unless it benefits them in some way. It also needs to generate collective benefits. People often ask, why does change? How can we make things better? Why does my contribution matter in this case or that case? How can I help? Maybe I can help more than you expected.

Chief Change Officer

#359 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part One

1791.098

Ownership isn't just about being informed or notified. It's about contributing to the evolution of the change and being responsible for the outcome. If the outcome isn't as good as expected, how can we work together to make it better? This sense of ownership, this power of ownership is so impactful.

Chief Change Officer

#359 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part One

185.183

Yes, the world has changed so much and so quickly in the past couple of years. We'll deep dive into many of those changes in your space, higher education. But first, I always start with the guest. The focus is on your change journey over time. So let's begin with that.

Chief Change Officer

#359 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part One

1853.251

Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#359 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part One

48.645

Bridget and I met at South by Southwest when we were on the same judging panel for startups in education technology. That was a time before COVID. Many changes have occurred ever since. Bridget has navigated these changes firsthand in higher education.

Chief Change Officer

#359 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part One

641.367

So you're now leading a university innovation alliance focused on improving graduation outcomes for students from low-income families. This mission ties back to your own background. You've worked within the system for a long time. You've seen the problems, experienced the frustrations, and reached a point where you decided this is it. You shifted the perspective from competition to collaboration.

Chief Change Officer

#359 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part One

679.75

How did you go about convincing these 11 schools, their presidents and administrations to work together? How did the lobbying process unfold? It must have been like an entrepreneur pitching for investment. How did you make it happen?

Chief Change Officer

#359 Bridget Burns: Breaking the Higher Ed Hunger Games—Part One

73.168

She's now leading a university innovation alliance focused on improving graduation outcomes for students from low-income families, a mission tied closely to her own background. In this episode, we'll explore how she convinced 11 schools to work together shifting the paradigm from competition to collaboration.

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

108.552

Nope, Mary's is all about making waves and driving positive change. So it's no surprise she's now teamed up with a rising star in the HR tech world. Let's talk about why this matters. Our job market right now is like a roller coaster. We've got layoffs, downsizing, companies flipping their business models on their heads, and AI stepping into the ring.

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

12.481

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I've got a treat for you. We are welcoming back a familiar voice to the show, Mary Shea.

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

1348.334

I can appreciate that if I were one of those candidates, by the way, in your process, I totally appreciate the fact that someone senior like you and your colleagues got really involved in the process. Because if I join, if you offer me a job, I will be working with you. How you treat me is indicative of how I will be treated as a colleague. Okay, so yes, I do have a story to share.

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

1373.288

I don't usually share a lot of personal story, especially if I do interview because I want the focus to be on the guest. But this time for this topic, I do have a personal story. So if you could allow me. This recent experience of mine really got me thinking about the challenges and opportunities in the HR space today. So I was up for this senior position. and a big international brand.

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

1402.53

You know, one of those roles that asks for over 20 years of work experience. Exciting stuff, right? Now, here's where it gets interesting. The person interviewing me, a young HR professional, maybe two or three years out of college, and she asked me to join her on a Zoom call. She sent this request through a automatic recruitment system. So I replied. I said, yes. I picked a date.

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

1441.885

And now keep in mind, this isn't during COVID and we are in the same city. So I offered to pop into the office for face-to-face conversation. Well, she did not come back to me. Maybe it's because of the automatic system. Then when we got on the call, I once again mentioned to her that I would love to meet her in person.

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

145.508

Throw in some political and economic curve balls, and you've got a recipe for a lot of people hunting for jobs. It's not just about finding work, isn't it? We are in this fascinating era where you might have four generations all working side by side. And AI is like this double-edged sword opening doors for some while others are wondering if it will show them the door.

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

1470.342

I reached out to her before the call, and her response was, Oh no, Friday is work from home. We just do the call. All right, I thought, let's roll with it. From the moment we started, I can tell she's just reading questions off a screen next to her computer. It felt like I was in some kind of robotic interview simulator.

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

1497.442

The questions were all over the place, barely touching on what the job was actually about. And I can tell you, some questions were inappropriate, touching upon age and generation. There, I'm thinking, where's the human touch in all this? It really left me wondering about the company's culture. If this is how they treat potential candidates and executives, what's it like to work there?

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

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It wasn't exactly the best first impression. I think in today's world where competition for top talent getting more and more intensive, HR is not only for recruitment, for administration, for training. What sets one employer apart from another employer for recruitment of top talents? HR plays a very, very crucial role in the whole process. HR is the frontline ambassador for the company.

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

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My experience felt like a missed opportunity. It made me wonder, in today's market, do you think advanced tech and AI solutions might actually offer a more personalized and effective experience than human recruiters? especially when there is a significant gap in experience or multi-generational understanding? How do you see technology potentially bridging these gaps?

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

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So where does it all leave us? What's the future of work looking like? That's exactly what we are diving in today with Mary. She's going to give us the lowdown on what's happening in HR and recruitment. Ready? Let's jump in and hear what Mary's got to say. Mary, welcome back.

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

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It's really good. As we speak, a lot of the issues I've raised, the solutions to these issues, the approach to dealing with and managing the risks of what AI technology can and will bring to the table are still being developed and explored. That's the beauty of change. Change is changing itself. We'll come back to this in our next episode together.

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

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Before we wrap up, I have one more question for you. We've talked about a lot of technological potential and advancements in HR for employers. Let's flip the table and talk about job seekers. Given your experience in this area, your read on this industry, What advice would you give to job seekers in this increasingly AI-driven market?

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

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How can they position themselves better and stronger in the AI-driven recruitment process to become a standout candidate, for example, and effectively communicate the value, the real value to the employers? For this question, you and I know very well that using ChatGPT or any AI tool to create a 100% polished resume and cover letter is not the answer. So what's your advice? Yes.

Chief Change Officer

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You've had a deep career journey from being an industry analyst at Forrester to now collaborating with a rising star in HR technology. What drew you to this HR tech space? And what makes you believe we are at a tipping point for accelerated growth in this sector?

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

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You answer one of the questions on my list is about networking. You and I started and built our careers before the digital age. So our training, our experience, involved a lot of human touch, a lot of personal touch. For example, cold calling, industry event, socialization, face-to-face, keeping in touch, in close touch with people before we had LinkedIn. The gesture of reciprocation

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

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Yet the younger generations, they've grown up in a digital era. So the definition of networking, the approach to communicating with people, to building and developing sustainable, meaningful relationships, so much different from ours.

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

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100% agree. That's why I never see myself building a podcast, a show. I am building a community, a global community involving minds like yourself who is progressive about developing, evolving, and revolutionizing their careers, their future.

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

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If you caught our first season back in March, you might remember her from episode three and four. If you missed those, don't worry. They're still there if you want to catch up. But we'll cover plenty of ground today. Now, let me tell you. Mary's career path is anything but ordinary.

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

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Let's talk about HireQuotient, with which you are partnering in the U.S. market. I check out the website, they offer a full suite of solutions and products for businesses and enterprises. I'm intrigued by the idea of uncovering hidden talent pools. Can you walk us through how that actually works in practice?

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

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I believe this is the, this is what you call a differentiation or differentiation factor in high quotient.

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

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We're talking a journey from classical musician to frontline salesperson, all the way to senior tech leader in sales and revenue enablement. Talk about range, huh? But here's what really makes Mary tick. She's all about using tech to shake things up in how we work. As she put it in her last conversation, she's not one for playing by the standard rule book.

Chief Change Officer

#358 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Three

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There's a common belief that scalable HR tech solutions are best suited for lower-end, less skilled jobs versus higher-end, highly skilled and senior jobs.

Chief Change Officer

#357 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Two

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I like to think of it as a tennis match when two leaders of equal caliber face off, akin to players matched in skill. But I'll be the first to admit real-life leadership dynamics are far more complex and full of ambiguities than a straightforward tennis match. Perhaps based on my own time in the thick of these leadership dynamics, let me share a few insights.

Chief Change Officer

#357 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#357 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Two

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First off, think of tennis as the ultimate showdown where players fight for their glory, fame, rankings, and of course, the prize money. It's the essence of competition, a zero-sum game where one's win is another's loss. But when we talk about shared leadership, the dynamics shift. It's not about winning or losing against each other. It's about playing a positive sum game.

Chief Change Officer

#357 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Two

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Here, the strategy is coopetition, blending collaboration with competition. not just claim a larger slice of the pie, but to make the pie bigger for everyone involved, both for the individuals and the business. Now, let's talk umpires. In tennis, the umpire's decision is immediate and final, helped by technology with clear rules and transparent procedures.

Chief Change Officer

#357 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Two

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Everything happens live with instant feedback on questionable actions. And then the game moves on. Business, however, doesn't have the luxury of an on-the-spot empire. Even with governance structures, shareholding frameworks and policies in place, those in oversight capacities, such as directors and investors, cannot always see, witness and judge events as they unfold.

Chief Change Officer

#357 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Two

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This delay introduces different risks, such as gaps in time, reality, expectations and information. making the business landscape much more complex than any sports arena. Let's talk about the whole people dynamics and structure thing. A concept foreign to the tennis court where the only crowd management needed is ensuring the audience stays quiet.

Chief Change Officer

#357 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Two

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However, in a world of business, voices and noises are ever-present. Mary's got this cool idea about making everyone a mini CEO, which sounds super empowering, but then that's the possibility of everyone doing their own thing, creating little islands or silos within the company.

Chief Change Officer

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the adoption of remote work these people dynamics and political undercurrents present challenges that are harder to identify and address because of lack of physical presence and direct observation as a business skills these dynamics multiply here's a thought what if

Chief Change Officer

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We bring in some specific roles to help balance things out, like executive coaches as independent advisors for co-CEOs to keep them grounded, or a chief of staff to connect the dots between different parts of the company. and executive chairman acting as a more engaged umpire, ready to make proactive decisions and address issues more frequently.

Chief Change Officer

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Each role has its ups and downs, but when strategically positioned and holistically aligned, they could create a kind of self-reinforcing harmony in a power structure so that the co-CEOs can navigate the complexity of people dynamics more effectively. Just like Mary mentioned, she likes putting together her own playbook to fit her career and the business.

Chief Change Officer

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I've still got a bundle of questions and plenty to say about the whole leadership dance. But I'm all ears for what Mary's got cooking in her next chapter. And who knows, maybe next round, we'll get Mary and Carson to hop on the podcast with us. All right, gearing up for the homestretch here, let's dive into our interview's final question.

Chief Change Officer

#357 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Two

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The very last question that I ask every single guest coming to my podcast is about their book recommendation.

Chief Change Officer

#357 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Two

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You're like me, not just about interest in nonfiction, but about how to see the world, money, finance, which we study a lot anyway, but things that would not only enrich us as a human being, but something that would help us to stay resilient given all the craziness going on in the world is the compass that we all want to hold on to. Thank you so much, Merrick. We have so much to talk about.

Chief Change Officer

#357 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Two

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Not enough. We will continue. Thank you so much, Merrick.

Chief Change Officer

#357 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#357 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Two

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So how does the AI technology impact your space, especially in the context of human and machine interaction?

Chief Change Officer

#357 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Two

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Last time, we heard a very inspiring and interesting story about Mary, transforming from a classical musician with PhD to entry-level frontline salesperson, and now the co-CEO of a rising revenue enablement company. In this episode, Mary is going to break down how AI technology is not just a buzzword, but a game changer for sales teams and their revenue goals.

Chief Change Officer

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Like I said, there are lots and lots of use cases. We don't have time to cover them all. Let's take a step up, look at the impact of AI in a broader sense. I'm really interested in your perspective on balancing efficiency with effectiveness. So how do you envision AI transforming this balance? And regarding the old 80-20 rule, how do you see AI modernizing these concepts perhaps?

Chief Change Officer

#357 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Two

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And if you were to come up with a metaphor that captures AI's role in the sales space, what would that be?

Chief Change Officer

#357 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Two

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Now, Mario, with the necessary capital secured, a talented team in place, and the promise of advanced technology, there is another critical element in the success equation of any business, which is leadership. You're navigating this journey with Carson as co-CEO, a setup that's somewhat unconventional in tech and large enterprises, though not unheard of.

Chief Change Officer

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Could you share what went through your mind when you decided to begin this co-leadership path? And more importantly, how has the experience been for you so far?

Chief Change Officer

#357 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Two

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Plus, we are tackling a topic that is a bit out of the ordinary, the co-CEO governance model. Ever wonder how having two captains during the ship compares to the solo CEO journey? How do they make it work? And what's the secret to balancing the benefits and the risks of sharing the leadership? Let's find out.

Chief Change Officer

#357 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Two

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Sharing leadership is nothing new. It reminds me of my days in the financial markets, where co-head arrangements in investment banks and financial houses were standard. I had a chance to work directly under two co-CEOs leading a global business. Their setup worked well. They shared responsibility and authority. They complemented each other with their skill sets, styles, and approaches.

Chief Change Officer

#357 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Two

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What tied everything together was their mutual trust and having an umpire, a boss above them, to make the final calls. But when external market forces have changed, internal office environment has shifted, and their personal circumstances have diverted. partnership did not sustain. That's no different from my own journey as a co-founder in New Ventures.

Chief Change Officer

#357 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Two

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Initially, we shared trust and viewpoints and respected each other's independence, leaning on interdependence when necessary. But as circumstances began to emerge, When one party's behavior becomes unfriendly or, I should say, counter-relationship, it often triggers a similar response from the other side. The whole dynamics of a relationship or partnership changed.

Chief Change Officer

#357 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Two

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Here, the psychology concept, reciprocity, plays a crucial role in the dynamics and the final outcome. How do you guys resolve conflicts as and when it happens?

Chief Change Officer

#357 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part Two

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I'm a fan of tennis, so I'm thinking of if you've got two star players, like co-ceos, who's your part? At some point, something happened. At the same time, it's kind of like a marriage. And you know, any loving couples, they may at some point go to a consultant or something. Who's the empire?

Chief Change Officer

#356 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In this episode, I'm thrilled to welcome Mary Hsieh, the co-CEO of Mediafly, a leading revenue enablement company that raised $80 million in capital to turbocharge its growth.

Chief Change Officer

#356 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part One

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So you got a whole suite of tech-enabled solutions blended with human services. Yes. So how does the AI technology impact your space, especially in the context of human and machine interaction?

Chief Change Officer

#356 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part One

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Next time, Mary is going to break down how AI technology is not just a buzzword, but a game changer for sales teams and their revenue goals. Plus, we are tackling a topic that is a bit out of the ordinary, the co-CEO governance model. Ever wonder how having two captains during the ship compares to the solo CEO journey? How do they make it work?

Chief Change Officer

#356 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part One

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It was about moving forward, unburdened. is a powerful reminder of the resilience it takes to truly embrace change and chase success on one's own terms. I'd come to know Mary before I even met her in person. A common friend, so to speak, is her partner, Waverly Deutsch, who was my former professor of entrepreneurship at Chicago Booth.

Chief Change Officer

#356 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part One

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And what's the secret to balancing the benefits and the risks of sharing the leadership? Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#356 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part One

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After I heard all the wonderful things about Mary's business success in the sales space, I finally got to sit down with her over dinner when both of them came to Hong Kong before COVID. Other than good food and wine, fun conversation, I was impressed by all the changes she has led, building herself up with so much resilience and intelligence.

Chief Change Officer

#356 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part One

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As I was putting together the guest list for the podcast, I thought of her right away. I emailed her directly. Within eight minutes, I got her reply. There, she said, I would love to be on your podcast. Please send over details. Our team will take a look to make sure it's a good fit for me and Mediafly, which I already assume it is. You bet, Mary. Here we go.

Chief Change Officer

#356 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part One

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Yes, a couple of years, a lot of changes. This podcast is about change. You are the perfect person to talk about that.

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#356 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part One

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back in your school days studying music and then move through the business landscape and now you are the co-CEO at Mediaflot.

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#356 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part One

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At Forrester, you were the analyst. You analyze things.

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#356 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part One

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You analyze businesses.

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#356 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part One

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Mary's story is downright inspiring. Mary, a proud LGBT community member and women's empowerment advocate, has taken a path less troubled. Imagine going from a classical musician with a PhD to an entry-level sales job, from playing music to playing a key role in sales, then rising to become a CEO after working as a forester analyst.

Chief Change Officer

#356 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part One

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Now that you look back, if you analyze your career life, do you see any common threads or themes or factors or drivers of motivation? What would that be?

Chief Change Officer

#356 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part One

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Yep, enabler. I really like this word. Some of the best leaders I've worked with and for over years, they really try to enable my success even before I believe in it. They will say, just do it. I have confidence in you. I'll help you with that. I'll make you a success. That's what I call enablement leadership. That is very empowering.

Chief Change Officer

#356 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part One

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I like that term, mini CEO. You and Carson, the official co-CEO of Mediafly, you got a lot of mini CEOs on their own in their own space. They all have their own potential to grow, if I can summarize this way.

Chief Change Officer

#356 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part One

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If I had to capture Mary's journey in just two words, it would be beyond boundaries. We are our worst enemies, scared of failure or what others might think. But in Mary's case, instead of being paralyzed by the weight of her background as a well-educated musician, a mantle that could have been seen as baggage in her new arena. She chose to reinvent herself. This wasn't about giving up.

Chief Change Officer

#356 Mary Shea: From Oboe Solos to Sales Strategy—A Career Reinvented — Part One

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Other than sales, business, and tech, I know you are a passionate champion in driving diversity issues forward. especially with respect to women and LGBT communities. Tell us a bit more about your work there.

Chief Change Officer

#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest, Raelle West, is the kind of person you meet and immediately think, wow, she has lived such a full life.

Chief Change Officer

#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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You've reached a point where traditionally you could retire stop working, travel around the world, dive into hobbies. But the concept of retirement has changed. In today's world, it's not always about stepping away completely. I'm curious, what's your personal take on retirement? Would you consider retiring in the conventional sense? Or do you have a different vision for this stage of life?

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#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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You and I have the longest time difference, 17 hours. Thank you for coming on board.

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#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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The idea of retirement is evolving rapidly. is no longer about just stopping work and living off savings or pensions. Financial independence now means people have choices whether to keep working, pivot into a passion project, or even take breaks to recharge and come back stronger. From your perspective, with financial freedom at your disposal, how do you view retirement?

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When you think about this for the border population, how do you see the concept shifting? If we put on the Futurist hats, where do you think retirement is headed in the next decade or two? I'd love to hear your vision for how this concept may evolve.

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#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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Time difference reflects distance. So far, among all my guests, you are the most distant one. The very first guest from Alaska I've never visited Alaska. The closest I've been was a transit stop when flying from Asia to Toronto, Canada. But now I finally have the chance to connect with someone from Alaska. I'm so excited to learn more. Let's get started with your story.

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#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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Walk us through your career journey, your history, the major transitions, and the key moments of evolution. Then we explore different elements in our conversation.

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#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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You mentioned you grew up in an entrepreneurial family. Yes. So that vibe, the mindset of building and creating was part of your education from an early age. Then in your 20s, you stepped into the game yourself, starting your own ventures. You've been involved in various businesses since. I'm curious. How do you decide which area to focus on?

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#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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Is it a lot of strategic calculation, following trends, gut feeling, or just going where the money is? What's your thought process when choosing a business to start or invest in? And what lessons have you learned along the way?

Chief Change Officer

#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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Over 40 years as an entrepreneur, her story is full of twists and turns. In her mid-20s, she took a leap and started her first business. That was just the beginning. For 25 years, she and her husband ran a charted air surface between Alaska and Hawaii, flying wide-body jets. Eventually, they soldered to Alaska Airlines, a huge milestone, but not the end of her journey.

Chief Change Officer

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I see you as a fairly successful self-made business person. someone who has steadily built wealth over time with discipline while spotting opportunities along the way, how would you describe your approach? In your own words, what kind of business person are you?

Chief Change Officer

#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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In your entrepreneurial journey as a woman, have you faced challenges that might differ from those faced by men in similar positions? I ask because even today, in a tech-driven world, it is well known that women, regardless of age, still face unique hurdles. For instance, female tech founders struggle with raising money as easily or in the same amount as their male counterparts.

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#208 Ral West’s Wild Ride: From the Cockpit to the Boardroom

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Reflecting on your experience across the different businesses you've built and run, what were some of the key challenges you've encountered as a woman business leader And now, as a coach, how do you guide younger women to navigate and overcome similar challenges, learning from what you faced and learned?

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She has owned small cruise ships, invested in real estate, and kept building. And now she's helping other women entrepreneurs figure out the same thing she did, how to run a business and have a life with sustainability. Her story is real and packed with lessons for anyone chasing big dreams. Let's dive in. Well, good afternoon. Welcome to our show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

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How do you guide people in building the kind of system from growing up? Specifically, how do you teach them to lay the foundation, develop the structure, and ensure is resilient enough to grow and thrive before they can step back and enjoy the fruit of their labor?

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#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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What advice or encouragement would you offer to help them take that next step towards doing better, especially after listening to this episode?

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm talking to Athena Bronson, a real estate agent from Denver, Colorado. Nope, we are not talking about real estate.

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#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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One thing I add to that is when you are practicing this mindset shift process, and making those small changes or steps forward. Make it visible. Grab an actual notebook, not on the computer, but a real paper notebook and pen or even a board you can put up on the wall. Write down each small win. check it off and create a visual reminder that says, I did it.

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#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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That simple action of writing, seeing those check marks and having a visual cue of your progress can really inform that sense of accomplishment. I think is a powerful way to feel and see your growth over time.

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#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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100%.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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Jodie Foster once said, all you need to make a movie is pen, paper, and confidence. Despite her success as an actor, she didn't step into directing until later in her career, initially thinking she needed to master every technical detail. But as she shared in her masterclass, she realized that those three essentials, pen, paper, and confidence, were all she needed to start.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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In part one, Athena shares her experience with Lyme disease, a condition that remains poorly understood but has profoundly impacted her health. She'll talk about how she caught it, what she's endured, and the fight to survive. Today in part two, Asina will share how she not only survived, but found ways to thrive, rebuild her support system, and grow her career once again.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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It's such a powerful reminder how simplicity and self-belief can be the true foundation for creating something meaningful. and sustainable. That is beautiful. Of course, I know all the scripts were crafted by a copywriter, but it felt so authentic. I believe she was speaking directly from her heart and her experience. It's so powerful.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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So I'll leave you with that and share it with my listeners too. Pen, paper, that's power in them. A journal as well, by the way. And of course, a bit of confidence. Thank you so much, Athena.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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I really resonate with what you said about being our biggest advocate, especially in tough times. We hear a lot about IQ and EQ, emotional quotient, emotional intelligence. But there's another measure, adversity quotient or IQ, which seems less talked about yet. So crucial. I think we are all starting to see how important it really is. Your experience is a powerful example of this.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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Physical pain is intense and medications might help here and there. maybe make sleep easier. But that's only part of it. It's the mental resilience that really keeps us going, especially in those moments when you are alone, in pain, facing it all. What stands out from what you've just shared is how you found ways to mentally change your focus even on the small things, to help you stay grounded.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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It seems like that's been your best defense and maybe even your offense.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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You've talked about how you help yourself normalize the situation so that life and work could go on. You kept earning, kept things moving, especially with those high medical costs. Even with insurance, it still adds up. But beyond that, you mentioned the importance of building a support system with mentors, coaches, and others, which I think is crucial.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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Can you share more about how you started building that from scratch and how you went about finding the right people, those who really became the perfect fit for your journey? Eventually, it seems like it grew into a really strong support system. One that not only provided you the help you needed, but also gave you a true sense of community.

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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Instead, we dive into her extraordinary journey of resilience. At the peak of her real estate career, Feeling invincible and unstoppable, Athena's life took unexpected turn. Strange health issues appeared, and she was eventually diagnosed with Lyme disease, a condition that would change everything. For the past seven years,

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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You shared so much today about building a support system, rewiring your mindset, and finding ways to move forward is incredibly helpful. For those out there who might be in the middle of a live transition, just like you were, if you don't have a support system yet, there's still feelings stuck. And they are struggling with that rewiring process. What would you say to them?

Chief Change Officer

#207 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part Two

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Athena has lived in chronic pain, relying on plasma transfusions four days each month just to keep going. Her life has revolved around battling this disease, something she never imagined facing. As she says, if life didn't give us adversity and challenges. This story is too powerful and real for just one episode.

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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So you were diagnosed around seven to eight years ago and you discovered through surgery rather than injury. You've also said dealing with chronic pain in a range of challenges. How has this disease affected your day-to-day life and work? I can only imagine how difficult it must be.

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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To the extent that you are comfortable sharing, I'd love to hear about how you've managed and navigated these challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm talking to Athena Bronson, a real estate agent from Denver, Colorado. No, we are not talking about real estate.

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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Today, in part one, Asena shares her experience with Lyme disease, a condition that remains poorly understood but has profoundly impacted her health. She'll talk about how she caught it, what she's endured, and the fight to survive. Tomorrow in part two, Asina will share how she not only survived, but found ways to thrive, rebuild her support system, and grow her career once again.

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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I really resonate with what you said about being our biggest advocate, especially in tough times. We hear a lot about IQ and EQ, emotional quotient, emotional intelligence. But there's another measure, adversity quotient or AQ, which seems less talked about yet so crucial. I think we are all starting to see how important it really is. Your experience is a powerful example of this.

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

1579.642

Physical pain is intense and medications might help here and there. Maybe make sleep easier. But that's only part of it. It's the mental resilience that really keeps us going. Especially in those moments when you are alone, in pain, facing it all. What stands out from what you've just shared is how you found ways to mentally change your focus, even on the small things, to help you stay grounded.

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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It seems like that's been your best defense and maybe even your offense.

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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Just now, Alcina shared with us about how she caught Lyme disease, what she has endured, and her fight to survive. Tomorrow in Part 2, Asina will share more about how she not only survived but found ways to thrive actively to rebuild her support system and grow her career once again. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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Athena, welcome to our show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. I know you're in Denver. Good afternoon to you.

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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Instead, we dive into her extraordinary journey of resilience. At the peak of her real estate career, Feeling invincible and unstoppable, Athena's life took unexpected turn. Strange health issues appeared, and she was eventually diagnosed with Lyme disease, a condition that would change everything. For the past seven years,

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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That's so much. We can dive into here. Athena, can you share with us how old were you when you were first diagnosed?

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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You mentioned that this disease is rare and you were fortunate to find a doctor who understood it well. But for most of my listeners in the U.S. as well as internationally, this condition isn't widely known, meaning there's a lack of awareness, which could be risky. Could you enlighten us a bit more? What exactly is this disease and what should people know about it?

Chief Change Officer

#206 Athena Brownson vs. Lyme Disease: A Story of Grit and Comebacks — Part One

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Athena has lived in chronic pain, relying on plasma transfusions four days each month just to keep going. Her life has revolved around battling this disease, something she never imagined facing. As she says, if life didn't give us adversity and challenges. This story is too powerful and real for just one episode.

Chief Change Officer

#157 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard... Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#157 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part Two

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Today, in part two, she'll share the hard-earned wisdom she gained from overcoming paralysis, starting a new chapter, shaping a path to personal and professional growth. Erica will also dive into the career equation she created and how we can all work towards becoming better versions of ourselves in our careers. Your experience and the journey are exceptional.

Chief Change Officer

#157 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part Two

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The challenges you've faced, both physical and mental, are beyond what many of us could even imagine. I deeply applaud you for that resilience. As I listened, I wondered, now that you're looking back and you call yourself exceptional, which I think is entirely fitting, what would you say is your superpower?

Chief Change Officer

#157 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part Two

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If you had to pinpoint exactly what it is that helped you sustain and succeed through all of those things, what would that be? Is it a deep-rooted faith? Something within your career equation? Or an other quality? What do you think that allowed you to endure all the pain and ultimately come back even stronger?

Chief Change Officer

#157 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part Two

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But what makes Erica's story unique is her remarkable journey of resilience, purpose, and transformation. In 2022, a life-changing accident left her paralyzed. Facing months of recovery through immense pain and uncertainty, Erica fought her way back. Back to walking? Back to work? and back to a renewed mission.

Chief Change Officer

#157 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part Two

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That's the lived experience that really matters. My podcast is about real, raw, lived experiences, not polished success stories. Now, I'd like to dive into your book, The Career Equation. I've skimmed through it myself and noticed you focus on helping employers better support the career growth of their employees.

Chief Change Officer

#157 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part Two

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Many career books are aimed at individuals taking charge of their own career paths, but you've chosen to speak directly to employers. Since we have a few minutes left, I think it would be great to web up with this. How do you help employers enhance the career experience for their teams?

Chief Change Officer

#157 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part Two

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What steps can they take to create an environment where employees feel not just more productive, but truly motivated and committed? This is a relevant question to many people out there feeling stuck in the workforce, looking for a way to feel more engaged and valued.

Chief Change Officer

#157 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm speaking with Erica Sosna, a fellow podcast host and the author of The Career Equation, who, like me, is passionate about careers.

Chief Change Officer

#157 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part Two

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After a year away from her consultancy, Erica returned with fresh purpose, balancing her career on a three-day work week, launching a podcast, and expanding her reach to create a bigger impact. Yesterday, part one, Erica shared her career journey, the twist and the turns, and the accident that changed everything.

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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Those setbacks ended up leading to new insights, to new heights, knowing what I can and I cannot do, what I can accept, and what doesn't fit me at all. It helps me become laser-focused on what really works for me and what's worth pursuing. That clarity can be powerful, almost like a reckoning, and turn tough moments into real growth opportunities.

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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So I love hearing about how career transitions shaped you. And you also mentioned that you've been through personal events, life events that brought an other layer of challenge and insight. Would you mind sharing more about those experiences?

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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Then in part two, airing tomorrow, she'll share the hard-earned wisdom she gained from overcoming paralysis, starting a new chapter shaping a path to personal and professional growth. Erica will also dive into the career equation she created and how we can all work towards becoming better versions of ourselves in our careers. Good afternoon, Erica. Welcome to our show.

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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Just now, Erica shared her career journey, the twists, the turns, and the accident that changed everything. Tomorrow in part two, she will share the hard-earned wisdom she gained from overcoming paralysis, starting a new chapter, shaping a path to personal and professional growth. Erica will also dive into the career equation she created.

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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and tell us how we can all work towards becoming better versions of ourselves in our career. Come back and join us tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Thank you so much, friends. I'm delighted to be here. Erica is also a podcast host, and she covers careers. So does that make us competitors? I don't think so. I see it more like we are part of this big circle, a world where so many people are focused on their future, their life, and their career.

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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I think we are both contributing to something bigger by sharing insights, lessons, and experiences in a human, direct way. Hopefully this helps someone get inspired or maybe even get unstuck. So Erica, let's start with you. Tell us a bit about yourself, your story and your experience before we drill down into your insights.

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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Transitions, there's so many kinds. We often think of transition as just changing jobs, but it's more than that. It's not just jumping from Google to Microsoft in the same industry. Sometimes it's moving to a totally different industry or even changing countries, cities, and life itself. Erica, in your journey so far,

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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If I were to ask about how you've navigated and managed your own transitions, could you share a couple of stories, maybe one related to your own career and one to your personal life? I think it would give us a deeper understanding of your experience and why you are so well-equipped you help others through the career equation which you created?

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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But what makes Erica's story unique is her remarkable journey of resilience, purpose, and transformation. In 2022, a life-changing accident left her paralyzed. Facing months of recovery through immense pain and uncertainty, Erica fought her way back. Back to walking? Back to work? and back to a renewed mission.

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm speaking with Erica Sosna, a fellow podcast host and the author of The Career Equation, who, like me, is passionate about careers.

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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I totally relate to your story. Before I launched this podcast, I also faced setbacks and failures. That took a lot of reflection to walk through. Like you said, it was devastating when it happened. But once I worked through those feelings, it became an opportunity to look inward, to be honest with yourself, and eventually grow out of it.

Chief Change Officer

#156 Career Math 101: Erica Sosna’s Formula for Bouncing Back – Part One

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After a year away from her consultancy, Erica returned with fresh purpose, balancing her career on a three-day work week, launching the podcast, and expanding her reach to create a bigger impact. Today, part one, Erica shares her career journey, the twist and the turns and the accident that changed everything.

Chief Change Officer

#94 Greg Morley: Turning DEI Drama into Workplace Wins – Part One

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Monet Tennessee is a diverse group with brands all over the world. Given this depth and breadth, diversity becomes a source of complexity. I can imagine that in such a multicultural, multi-layered enterprise, you must respect each brand's uniqueness while maintaining alignment with the firm's overall values. How do you tailor the DEI initiatives to manage this complexity?

Chief Change Officer

#94 Greg Morley: Turning DEI Drama into Workplace Wins – Part One

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Next, as we dive into advancing the DEI agenda at Monarch, Tennessee, Greg will share how he's been listening intently to the people who embody the heart and soul of the group's businesses, fostering an inclusive culture that's grounded in reality. In our third segment, we'll dive into the complexities of managing DEI across Monet Tennessee's diverse array of brands.

Chief Change Officer

#94 Greg Morley: Turning DEI Drama into Workplace Wins – Part One

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Can you be more specific about a representative organization? What does it look like?

Chief Change Officer

#94 Greg Morley: Turning DEI Drama into Workplace Wins – Part One

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Can you give us an example where the cultural shifts you've worked hard to drive within the organization have helped real people, your colleagues, take more control over their careers? How do these changes manifest in individual employee experiences?

Chief Change Officer

#94 Greg Morley: Turning DEI Drama into Workplace Wins – Part One

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Yep.

Chief Change Officer

#94 Greg Morley: Turning DEI Drama into Workplace Wins – Part One

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Greg will explain how he tailors the DEI strategies to respect and reflect each brand's unique identity. while aligning with the group's overarching corporate values. Lastly, we certainly can't overlook Greg's upcoming book, Bond. where he shares invaluable lessons on building meaningful connections, not just within the workplace, but in our everyday lives.

Chief Change Officer

#94 Greg Morley: Turning DEI Drama into Workplace Wins – Part One

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When we first met, you told me about publishing a new book. The title is Bond. What drove you to write the first book in your life about creating a sense of belonging and bonding in organizations? How do your own experiences tie into the bigger picture of diversity and inclusion you lay out in your book?

Chief Change Officer

#94 Greg Morley: Turning DEI Drama into Workplace Wins – Part One

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please do share a copy with me when it's available. I would like to host you again to talk more about your book, your ideas. From what I heard, this book is not simply about DEI. The world of work is changing. Building bonds, building bridges, building spaces across individuals is not limited within the walls of organization. It's simply the basic need of human beings.

Chief Change Officer

#94 Greg Morley: Turning DEI Drama into Workplace Wins – Part One

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I can see that your book applies to a lot of real scenarios.

Chief Change Officer

#94 Greg Morley: Turning DEI Drama into Workplace Wins – Part One

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Yes. And we will have more chief change officers around the world. Thank you so much.

Chief Change Officer

#94 Greg Morley: Turning DEI Drama into Workplace Wins – Part One

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It's about fostering a sense of true belonging and deeper inclusion everywhere. So if you are eager to learn how to make your own laws of change and hear from one of the leading voices in human transformation today, you are in the right place. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#94 Greg Morley: Turning DEI Drama into Workplace Wins – Part One

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Welcome. I'm very excited to have you on board. You're in the people function with a specific focus on DEI. Can you talk about how your early career experiences shape what you do today? What did you learn back then that still has implications and relevance for you being a people leader with a change enablement mandate?

Chief Change Officer

#94 Greg Morley: Turning DEI Drama into Workplace Wins – Part One

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You have been in the people function, in the HR function for long, but then you were in the commercial world for like eight years. Tell us more about your transformation or how your commercial experience prepared you going into the HR area.

Chief Change Officer

#94 Greg Morley: Turning DEI Drama into Workplace Wins – Part One

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Today, we are joined by Greg Morley, a leader in the world of human resources and a master of diversity, equity, and inclusion at Monarch, Tennessee, one of the oldest and largest wine and spirits conglomerates in the world. Greg has an amazing story to share, covering the unique experiences that have shaped his leadership style and his strategic approach to DEI.

Chief Change Officer

#94 Greg Morley: Turning DEI Drama into Workplace Wins – Part One

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You come from the client-facing and operational side. In your experience, how important is it for people leaders to work closely with other leaders like CFOs and CEOs? Can you share with us how this chemistry, this teamwork impacts the success of a modern day company

Chief Change Officer

#94 Greg Morley: Turning DEI Drama into Workplace Wins – Part One

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Throughout your career life, you've been involved in the DEI efforts at different points in time. Now, at Monette, Tennessee, have your approaches to DEI changed over the years? Are there any big lessons you've picked up along the way?

Chief Change Officer

#94 Greg Morley: Turning DEI Drama into Workplace Wins – Part One

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Let's explore what we'll uncover today with Greg. First, We'll discover how his early days handling customer complaints at call centers helped him develop empathy, quick thinking, and communication skills that became the cornerstone of his leadership at Disley, Hasbro, and now Monette, Tennessee.

Chief Change Officer

#94 Greg Morley: Turning DEI Drama into Workplace Wins – Part One

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In advancing the DEI agenda, can you describe the initial challenges and strategies your firm faced? How did you begin to tackle issues like, for example, unconscious bias and change company policies to be more totally inclusive, rather than using DEI simply as part of corporate branding jargon?

Chief Change Officer

#94 Greg Morley: Turning DEI Drama into Workplace Wins – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In this episode, I've got a special treat for you.

Chief Change Officer

#135 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part One

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as I was listening to your story. First off, if we were in a studio together right now, I would give you a big high five. You really hit on something that's basically me. When you mentioned getting excited about an opportunity, putting in 200% of your time and effort, only to realize... They just want 20 or 25% from you. And they don't even appreciate all the extra thoughts and work.

Chief Change Officer

#135 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part One

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Yeah, that was me too, for sure. Thanks for sharing that, Sarah. But as I kept listening, I also picked up on something else. There have been quite a few moments when you were stuck or felt stuck. And it sounds like through a lot of self-discovery, you rose above those challenges and kept moving forward. Is that a fair way to summarize your evolution?

Chief Change Officer

#135 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part One

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will dig into the book, her why, her audience, her objectives, and her vision. That said, Sarah's story and her book aren't just personal. They are also deeply rational. She's packed it with tools, analysis, and a lot of business concepts.

Chief Change Officer

#135 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part One

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Now you've written a book, or should I say you're about to publish a new book. The title is You Are a Strologist. Use no BS objectives and key results to get big things done. As you mentioned, you've been practicing astrology as a profession for years. Before we dive into your book, I'd like to talk a bit about the role of astrologist as a profession.

Chief Change Officer

#135 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part One

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For anyone familiar with business school models and buzzwords, you'll find her approach balances speaking to a specific audience while delivering real business value. Let's get started. Welcome Sarah, welcome to our show. Let's dive right into your story.

Chief Change Officer

#135 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part One

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When we are in a childhood, we usually say we want to be a pilot, a doctor, a lawyer. But the astrologist usually is not something of a so-called dream job. Yet, astrology consultants, especially in firms like McKinsey or BCG, often have this prestigious image attached to them. thanks to their branding and marketing.

Chief Change Officer

#135 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part One

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These firms have really crafted a perception around their consultants, hence the seven figure, eight figure fee. After spending a good amount of time in corporate consulting yourself, What are some of the biggest misconceptions about being a astrology consultant? What's the reality versus the myth? Could you share that with us, honestly?

Chief Change Officer

#135 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part One

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Let's continue Sarah's story tomorrow, shall we? Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#135 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part One

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How did you end up doing what you're doing now? Maybe we can dive deeper and go down memory lane. Where are you originally from? I know you are now on the West Coast in the United States, but let's talk about the early part of your life.

Chief Change Officer

#135 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part One

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are for the introverts, the ADHDs, those on the autism spectrum, trauma survivors, astrology-brained square-packs, frustrated change-makers, revolutionaries, that's rebels and revolutionaries combined, and thinker-doers. Why? Because our guest today, Sarah Lobkovich, is part of these groups and she is not holding back anymore.

Chief Change Officer

#135 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part One

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and that was really the that was in 2016 that was the birth of my obsession with goal setting and i haven't looked back i've been in that space ever since you mentioned that starting point in 2016 and here we are now heading into 2025 almost 10 years later i'll let you take more about what these last 10 years have been like for you in a moment.

Chief Change Officer

#135 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part One

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But before 2016, like you said, you've gone through several transformation points. Transformations are unique for everyone. Even for me, each of those moments felt very different from one another.

Chief Change Officer

#135 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part One

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Looking back now, especially since people who write books tend to have reflected deeply on their experiences, I'm curious, what were some of those key transformation points or challenges you faced that really stand out to you? More importantly, how did you manage to get unstuck We are living in a world where so many people feel stuck in some way.

Chief Change Officer

#135 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part One

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So I think your story could really resonate with anyone who might be going through that right now.

Chief Change Officer

#135 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part One

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In fact, she's spent months writing two books that bring together her life lessons and business strategy experience. to help us all wake up our inner astrologist and achieve big goals with no BS. In this episode, part one, we'll dive into who Sarah is, what she's been through and how her past has shaped her purpose today. In the next episode, part two,

Chief Change Officer

#135 From Misfit to Mission: Sara Lobkovich’s Guide to Achieving Big Goals – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This episode and the next episodes

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

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What were some of the things you enjoyed growing up in Hong Kong? Can you share more about activities or experiences that were particularly meaningful to you during that time?

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

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I remember that I actually took a photo with that piece and Vince, your husband, explained the significance of that dim sum container to me. Since Vince's family is in the restaurant business, he shared how dim sum plays a major role in Hong Kong's dining culture and overall culture.

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

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That really big dim sum container, especially made, as far as I know, was something you turned into a piece of art.

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. I started this show in Hong Kong and I run the show in Hong Kong. I'm originally from Hong Kong, talking to guests from every corner of the world possible.

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

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May, tell us a bit more about your artwork. Are there any particular pieces that stand out to you? Ones that you find especially memorable and would like to share with us?

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

1408.534

This seems like the perfect time to talk more about art of my family. May, you've mentioned this charity a few times during our interview. is called Art of My Family, with my M-Y standing for your name, May Yeung. When I look at your website, you set various goals. Making art accessible, promoting social inclusion, fostering cultural exchange, strengthening mental wellness,

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

142.465

So don't go away.

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

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and championing environmental protection. These are all very important agendas. Looking back over the past six years, I'm curious, how would you assess your progress? Of course, we've reached a stage in life where we don't just judge our achievements based on report cards. And you've mentioned that you used to be a perfectionist, but now have a different perspective.

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

1486.935

But if you have to evaluate your progress over the last six years, how would you rate yourself? And as a follow-up, looking forward, what else do you want to achieve? Are there areas where you feel you haven't done enough or where you believe you can do a better job? So it's a two-part question. First, assessing your past progress.

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

1515.806

And second, looking ahead and learning from the past to improve in the future.

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

168.71

Mei is a teaching artist. What is a teaching artist, you may wonder? And how does she develop her artistic journey? But before we do a deep dive, let us start with May's history. May, give us an overview of your history, your education, your life experiences, just to give us some perspective. Then we will explore different elements of your journey in the later part of our show.

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

1699.221

Speaking of mental wellness or well-being, it's important to acknowledge that whether in Hong Kong or elsewhere in the world, The aftermath of COVID, economic uncertainty, and other global challenges have created a lot of stress. These aren't just isolated events. They are interconnected factors that bring about significant changes. In my view, embracing change can be a growth opportunity.

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

1736.445

but also brings mental pressure and negativity, which can impact everyone's wellbeing. I agree with you that wellness is crucial for everyone, from the elderly, who have their own challenges, to children, who are the pillars of our future society. Often the mental issues we face as adults can be traced back to childhood.

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

1771.19

Something that happened in the family or during those formative years shapes how we see the world, how we behave, our mindset, and even our life and career choices. That's why I really admire your focus on intervening early in children's lives. The impact you're making goes beyond what can be measured financially. It's truly invaluable. For that, I applaud you.

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

1809.335

Now, I would like to wrap up our interview with a question that touches on the many roles you play. You run a charity, you are a mother raising a child, you take care of your own health, and you are a teaching artist with a wide range of interests. How do you balance all these different roles and responsibilities? And more importantly, what is your life mission now and going forward?

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

1846.257

The future is uncertain, the person is here, and the past is behind us. But when you set a goal for yourself, it's clear that you are fully committed and don't back out. So what would you say is your life mission?

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

1981.826

That's wonderful. May, I'm really looking forward to seeing more of your artwork at attending your exhibitions. As I mentioned, next time when your son picks up more words and expands his vocabulary, we'll have another interview. We'll do it entirely on video. We'll let him join in. That would be super awesome.

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

2029.362

Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

275.03

You went to the University of Chicago to study visual art, along with another interest of yours, political science. I happen to know a lot of people from Hong Kong and China, including myself, who attempt the University of Chicago to study economics, business, mathematics, or physics. Yet, even at your young age, you purposely chose art as your major. Tell us more about the why.

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

313.752

Why at that age you decided to pursue art as your major? Why you wanted to get serious about this field of study rather than just keeping it as a hobby or as an interest?

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

369.304

You've mentioned to me before that music has had a significant influence on your journey as an artist. Can you share more about how music plays a role in your art world?

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

529.597

In your career so far, you've explored various areas of art, like music, sculpture, and painting. But you've also spent a good amount of time in the corporate world, including investment banking and working for a tech company in the CSR or ESG space.

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

53.586

Yet so far, I haven't interviewed any guests from right here in Hong Kong. Today, that changes. I'm excited to bring a local guest to the studio, May Yeung, founder of the charity Art of My Family, a teaching artist, a cancer survivor, a mother to a really cute boy, and the wife of another Vince, who happens to be a good friend of mine. May has experienced many life changes over the years.

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

557.23

What were your thoughts back then about gaining this so-called standard commercial and business experience while still pursuing your artistic ambitions?

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

688.684

Speaking of perseverance, I can't help but ask about a significant aspect of your personal life. You shared in other media interviews that you were diagnosed with cancer at a young age and battled the illness for a considerable time. Could you share how this experience transformed or impacted you? Did it make you a more empathetic or artistic person? Or perhaps it had a different effect?

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

730.172

How does this health and personal experience shape your journey? I think our listeners would really appreciate hearing about the life lessons you've learned from this challenging time.

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

859.545

A near-death experience gives you a new perspective on life. While that experience is full of suffering, and we don't try to glorify it, it can also lead to personal growth. You came out of it as a better person, someone who embraces life more fully and finds greater happiness. And speaking of life, I know that in recent years, you started a new chapter.

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

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You got married to another Vince, who's also a friend of mine from the University of Chicago. And you have a son, a new life that you are nurturing. How is modelhood treating you so far? How has this experience, along with other major live events, impacted your perspective as an artist and in helping your communities?

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

968.75

who this person is because look at his eyebrows like checking me out what is this what am I trying to do so that's artisanal and he just smiled so back to our original question about a new chapter in your life about a new life that you're nurturing about motherhood

Chief Change Officer

#347 May Yeung: Sculpting Impact from Dim Sum to Disability Inclusion

98.123

She's determined to use the power of art in her own way to change lives and create an environmentally sustainable, mentally healthy, and socially inclusive society here in Hong Kong. Hong Kong is not just about business, finance and money. May has chosen a different path to do well and to do good. And as a side note, we've got our youngest guest ever, May's 11-month-old son joining us on the show.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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So part of the motivation is that's in my mind what really great looked like. And I wanted to build a way to really scale that approach. And then coincidentally, their pedagogy is quite similar to Harvard business school does case studies. And there's a lot of similar adult learning principle underpinnings. And also I think it's quite research path in the way that how people learn.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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The second thing I would say that made me want to start this is I felt like there was a really strong founder market fit when it comes to like my unique abilities or what I thought are my unique abilities that could help. build this product. So throughout my life, I've just been involved in a lot of things that involve live groups.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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So when I was in Korea, I used to be on TV and I hosted a lot of live TV shows. So I was often a show host where I had to facilitate conversations. Then I, throughout my life in school, would often play some sort of a role in class, whether it be class president or social chair. So I was often again facilitating a lot of experiences for people.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

1104.093

In work, I've facilitated a ton of really interactive workshops for clients where I also got insight into what it means to bring people together. And finally, I emcee weddings a lot. And so like a lot of the things that I do and I really enjoy are around bringing people together and somehow creating this dynamic that gets everyone to really engage.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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And I felt like I had really strong intuition and insight around this so when i bring those two things together it felt like there was an opportunity for me to create a new product that could really change what the default of online learning looks like with what i'm really good at yeah speaking of online learning

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

1158.118

I've been pretty involved in upskilling myself in recent months, taking courses on platforms like Coursera. While Coursera offers on-demand online learning, there's little interaction and is not very engaging, unless the topic really grabs my interest. On the other hand, I'm also taking some coaching classes, which involve synchronized group learning with breakout sessions.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

1196.429

That's a different experience altogether. And over the years, I've also had a lot of in-person experiences at business schools where I engaged in group dynamics and case studies. debating in large classrooms, or discussing cases in small teams. So when you mentioned designing your product to be similar to McKinsey or the Harvard Business School case method, it really resonates with me.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

123.404

Welcome Vince. And thanks, Vince, for having me. It feels a little bit strange to be saying thank you, Vin. Awesome to be on it.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

1233.874

So my question for you is, for regular learners, for everyday people who don't have the privilege of attending Harvard Business School or any other elite institution, how does your solution stand out? How does it differentiate itself from other learning scenarios I've mentioned, particularly in terms of the learning experience and outcomes?

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

1264.895

Yeah, so I think, so the way I think about it is, so maybe the context here is... Adult learning principles and science are pretty clear, and there's a lot of evidence around how adults learn, right? I think actually the issue for most, and it's not like different people, like learning styles is not a thing, right? It's like a myth that's already been debunked.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

1290.956

People really learn well skills where you require judgment and discussion and sort of practice. People really learn better when they're with others. Now, the challenge is that the kinds of high-impact learning where you're working with others is very expensive to scale. And it's very hard to do it flexibly also. And so what you often see is...

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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This is a very special episode. I've never had a guest with the same first name as mine. And you are the first. Groundbreaking, really. So, Vince, let's start with your story. Share your history and career path with us. Then we'll talk more about different aspects and elements of your experience. Let's begin by getting to know more about you.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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Only the very sort of privileged or high budget institutions of the world are able to offer learners the truly great learning experiences grounded in adult learning pedagogy. And then when they're forced to scale, they're making compromises in the learning experience that is not grounded in learning science. but at least it can get that content in front of the people who need it.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

1352.044

But today, in the past, there was no real way to scale truly science-backed great learning to more people. So I would say what we're doing is we're taking that experience that today can only be accessed by really privileged sort of settings and making it much more accessible to many more people through technology.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

1380.255

So it's about scaling live group learning. I also noticed an other key component you mentioned fostering a sense of community. You've had experience as a TV host, a MC, and engaging with people in various social environments. And now you're trying to bring that sense of community into the learning process through technology.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

14.565

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today got a double Vince episode. Yes, Vince Chan here hosting Vince John from New York City.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

1414.264

Personally, in the social media era, I found that the sense of humility often feels superficial. Reflecting on my own learning experience, like spending two years in business school with classmates, there was a genuine sense of humility, but it came at the cost of time and being physically present in one location.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

1442.984

Fast forward to today, you're using technology to scale live group learning and engage learners. I'm curious about your approach to using technology to foster and develop a more genuine sense of community. How do you achieve that?

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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I think this could be a game changer for many people, especially since despite the technology bringing us together, social media has often made us feel more disconnected.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

1480.612

Yeah, and it's something that I think you're totally right that it's sense of community has really been eroded and or the word community has been diluted in the social media world. I would say, okay, so if you step back, what are the things that actually build true sense of community? In our view, I think it requires meaningful conversations.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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that allow people to really get to know each other in a deeper way than they otherwise would. Go beyond the small talk or the classic set of things you share in a normal context and allow them to get deeper and learn about like, how do different people think? What are their values?

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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what where do their perspectives come from and so on and i would say what the way we've designed our learning gets at sparking conversations to get at that level so now comes the question of how do you create that kind of an environment you can't simply throw people into a group and say now talk deep right people don't do that and so the way we've try to do it in our modules.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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I think there are a number of different levers we pull, but maybe I'll highlight two. The first one is, in a lot of our modules, we first of all get people to solve problems together that are realistic but fictitious and that are not actually their own life problems.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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And by getting people to engage on this external problem, first of all, it just gets people to start deeply engaging and opening up in a more comfortable way because it's not like you're suddenly having to be very vulnerable from the get-go. And people also just really like problem solving together.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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Got it. Thank you. Yeah, so Today I'm an entrepreneur, but maybe I'll start from my origin. I was born in South Korea and I grew up there until I was 12. Then I immigrated to Canada and then I came to the US for college and then navigated to different parts of the world and came to where I am today. I would say there are a few things that have really marked my life.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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I think it's one of the innate qualities of humans that gets people to want to play social games, play board games, and do things with each other. And so we've created an environment where it feels like you're collaborating together and working together. Then the second thing we do is we then layer on the kinds of interactivity that allows everybody to share in a meaningful way.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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So one of the examples of this interactivity in our platform is we actually get everyone to write down their thinking. So it's a group setting, but alone, solo, quietly for a few minutes. So you reflect on the questions first and you are able to organize your thoughts. Then afterwards, you're able to share with each other how you thought about the prompt that was given.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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And so this sort of sequence intentionally allows everybody to have more of an equal voice in sharing and also the thoughts that they share to be more richer rather than people just off the cuff answering questions without having had a chance to really thought about it and write it down.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

1664.662

So far, we've talked about your solution from the learner's perspective. But what about from the provider's perspective? When I say provider, I refer to training providers, coaches, consulting firms, and book authors. I'm trying to learn more about your firm. It seems like your solution is very versatile, working well with different types of education and learning providers.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

1698.556

And for these providers and partners, what pain points are you solving for them? If I come to you and say, hey, Vince, I want to build this product. I want to build this platform. I think your technology is right for me. But I'd like to know more about the specific differentiation you offer compared to other learning solutions. What would you say?

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

1723.49

Yeah, I think usually, so I would say the clients fall in one of the two buckets, like broadly, in terms of why they find SparkWise useful for them. The first one is around just the level and the richness of interactions that are available virtually through SparkWise is much stronger than if they were to cobble together other tools like Zoom, then a whiteboarding tool and so on.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

1761.889

And in a very intuitive way that gets learners to just focus on the actual learning rather than be really distracted and overwhelmed by the amount of tools they have to toggle between. So the first set of partners want to use SparkWise because they want to bring an incredible learning experience to their clients that is interactive and they see SparkWise as a tool to do it.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

1785.95

The second group of partners that like us are the ones that are looking, they like the scalability value proposition that I told you earlier. For them, yeah, they can definitely, it's easy for a provider to host a group of, let's say, 10 to 15 people and do a very interactive session for them or do small group coaching. Those are all doable.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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But when you need to deliver learning to thousands or tens of thousands of learners across enterprises or companies,

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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different types of industries like how do you actually do that in a cost-effective way in a flexible way that doesn't force the partners to now have an army of different facilitators on demand they can pull in right and so they see our solution as a way to really scale their business in a streamlined way the skill and interactiveness you mentioned for smaller groups is impressive

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

1844.228

Recently, you announced a deal with Harvard Business Publishing to allow them to use your live group learning solution for their subscribers. Before you share more about that, I've noticed a trend with AI companies as AI and large language model technologies become more integrated into our daily lives.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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These AI companies are teaming up with media firms because these media firms have a wealth of quality content. For example, OpenAI has partnered with The Atlantic and Perplexity has revenue sharing agreements with media firms like Time and Fortune for AI-driven searches. Education is another ecosystem rich in content.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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The first thing is definitely the immigrant experience has been a really big component. Moving from South Korea to Canada when I didn't really speak much English at age 12, I think really forced me to really discover myself again at age 12 and really invest in learning and education as a way to adapt to a new environment.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

1905.649

When I heard about your collaboration with Harvard Business Publishing, I started connecting the dots. HBP has a huge library of quality content and access to top-tier authors. It seems to me that your technology could play a key role in unlocking hidden value from this content and bringing it to life for a broader audience. Is that your vision for this collaboration?

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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Or do you have other different expectations for it?

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

1950.484

I think you synthesize it quite well here, but the things that I would add to it are a couple of things. So definitely agree that there's a lot of idle content out there today. And there is a, not all content needs this, but I think the content that people who, who that need to be fully absorbed and digested and applied in real life.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

1976.064

Simply reading is rarely the best way for people to actually understand those concepts. So with collaborations like someone like Harvard Business Publishing who've been a wonderful partner with us so far, we really do see an opportunity to allow their expertise to come to life and influence more lives. The second thing I would add is that especially with

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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AI, just raw content is truly getting commoditized. It was already in many ways commoditized, but now it's accessible in a way that it wasn't before AI, which means those with like distinctive expertise are looking for ways to further elevate how you deliver that experience above and beyond what people can get through simply asking. an LLM.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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And so what we see is we're providing an alternative, a new way for people to engage with information and content that is human to human, that AI can't simply come in this place, that really gets people motivated to engage, that really creates aha moments because you're talking to other people. And hopefully through that, we allow people

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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the truly great thinkers' ideas and insights to get spread much more to different parts of the world.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

2067.929

It sounds like many of the thinkers and professors who publish articles through Harvard Business Publishing, along with book authors, could use these solutions to share their ideas and engage with learners and fans on a deeper level. That presents a huge potential, not just with large publishers, but also with platforms like Substack for newsletters or even podcast platforms.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

2099.545

I'm simply thinking out loud here, but for example, on platforms like Substack or in the podcasting space, many creators, including myself and yourself, could benefit from your technology. Independent book authors, podcasters, other content creators could use it to translate their content into a more interactive, community-based environment.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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The second thing that has really marked my experience is just post-education, going through a lot of different professional experience across consulting, international development in different countries, and just really learning what is it that I really care about, about the world, which for me, sort of the thread was people development, capability building, and talent development.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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allowing for deeper engagement and sharing of thoughts, insights, and advice with their audiences.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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Yeah, I think there's definitely a really interesting and promising opportunity there. Right now, we initially started by really focusing on, first, more of a B2B opportunity, also so that we can be focused on where we build our products and which features

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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are built for to enable which segments but to your point i think increasingly especially now there are going to be more and more of the solo creators or very small organizations that are reaching a lot more audience through the different digital channels that's been created and we do think it could be really interesting to help them bring another way of engaging with their listeners and audience and fans through our platform over time

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

2182.065

Great. I can't wait to hear more about your developments because I truly believe that in addition to the B2B space, there's so much more. The rest of the world is hungry for solutions like yours. Thank you so much for sharing, Vince.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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Thank you very much for having me.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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And so present day, I'm working on a startup that is an education technology company that helps people, so professionals learn together in group.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

249.932

SparkWise, that's your baby. But before we dive into SparkWise and all the exciting new initiatives, let's talk about your journey. You mentioned moving from Asia to Canada and United States. which is somewhat similar to my own experience. I moved from Hong Kong to Canada and studied in the United States.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

278.117

While you studied engineering at Princeton, then you transitioned into public administration at Harvard, focusing on economic development and eventually moved to different parts of the world. What drove you to make those transitions? How did these experiences enrich your character? Or perhaps it was the other way around. Wasn't your character that drove all those moves?

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

312.146

Yeah, it's an interesting question. I would say the thing that comes to my mind is, so first of all, I've for a long time been on a quest to find what is it that truly motivates me intrinsically. And today I feel like I've found it, especially with the work I do in Sparkwise. But that journey was very long.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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I think the part of the reason why it was a long journey is that growing up, I would characterize my young self as a people pleaser. Getting a lot of validation and enjoyment from things that others tell about me. And which means for a long time, I was very much driven by extrinsic things, whether it be compliments, like awards or prestige or things like that.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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And I always felt like that wasn't the sort of the thing that really fulfilled me. And I was constantly looking for what is it, the thing that motivates me. So my winding sort of career path reflects that journey. Now, I would say There are maybe two things that guided my process. One of which actually comes from my background in engineering. So I studied in operations research.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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And one of the things I learned in that discipline is that when you are trying to optimize a mathematical function under a lot of uncertainty, What you do is you actually double down on the areas of the function that you just have no data points on. So you actually gauge whether those parts of the functions are high value or not for you. So I apply that principle to my career, which means I...

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

425.988

When I first started undergrad, I went to McKinsey and that was honestly just me not knowing what I wanted to do at all. And McKinsey just sounded like a cool organization that everyone said was prestigious and good to work for. So I just went into it blind. But

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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Beyond that point, I was chasing things that I just hadn't experienced, where things were uncertain, so I can learn more about them and letting my intuition guide me. For instance, right after McKinsey, I went to Tanzania and worked at an NGO. I had an inkling that I cared about social impact, I had an inkling that maybe nonprofit could be a really interesting kind of organization to work for.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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I obviously had no experience working in Africa. I had no experience really working as a project manager in an NGO. And it felt like an opportunity that was very far away from what I knew. And by going there, I would discover. After that, I went to a year in Tanzania. I realized I really like high impact work, but they didn't really like the

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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NGO model and the incentives around what that environment creates. And so I actually ended up going to Colombia in Latin America and working at a startup. My first time in Latin America and my first time in a startup, but it was a way for me to really discover, again, a very different environment where I can experience that setting. and see what I like.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

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So those are a couple examples of how I chase uncertainty as a way to really discover what is it that really motivates me. There's the second sort of thing that I use a mental model I use is the idea that you can only really discover and learn your true preferences by gaining firsthand experience.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

53.854

Like me, Vince is from Asia and moved to Canada and the States for living, studying and working. I resonate with a lot of his transitional experiences and we share one major thing in common. We are both obsessed with learning. We are passionate about the outcome of learning, the experience of it, and how to improve it, not just for ourselves, but for others as well.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

545.364

I think a lot of times people spend a lot of time theorizing what might be good and then apply after theory. I think the other way around, I feel like you're better off

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

558.232

leading with experience and then distilling and creating mental models around yourself and defining your principles from actually putting yourself in situations where you feel the real constraints of realities and then you realize, okay, this is what I really care about versus this. I don't really care about this.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

576.8

And for me, that's the reason why I was jumping into these very different environments. And from that, learn what is it that I really care about.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

586.425

And as I mentioned earlier, briefly, through all these experiences, I learned the thing that I always thought about and found enjoyment in was doing things around people development, talent development, thinking about how do you unlock people's potential and so on. And once I got enough of those data points across settings,

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

609.574

I knew or felt that was the area I had to focus on if I were to dedicate a decade of my life building a venture. And hence, today I'm building an education technology business.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

622.761

So as I was listening, it seems like you have a scientist's mindset. You're intrigued by things you don't fully understand, but you're drawn to them. Your way of finding out more is to dive deep, collect data points, and explore. You might start with a hypothesis, but as you gather more data, you either debunk or validate your initial theories.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

658.908

continuously refining your understanding until you reach a point where you discover your true passion. Would you say that's a fair summary of your experience?

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

675.567

Yeah, I would say I would agree with like 80-90% of what you share. The only thing I would say is I think oftentimes when you think about the scientific mindset, the one caveat is people then often spend a lot of time like creating the underlying theory on which your hypothesis is formed. And then you go into the idea of validating in a very scientific way.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

702.325

Whereas I think for me, especially when it comes to career, one, I think it's hard to be that scientific. And two, I think if you overthink about what is this theory underlying my preferences, I'm not sure if it's that helpful. So I agree with most of it, except I would say I'm a scientist that theorizes less when it comes to careers, I would say.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

726.899

A few episodes ago, I talked to one of my guests, who was actually my former professor at Chicago Booth. We themed her series Love and Logic. She studied computer science as an undergrad. but went on to earn her master's and PhD in theater history, a unique blend of art and science.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

757.092

Later, she taught entrepreneurship at the business school Chicago Booth, which made for a fascinating life experience. We discussed the balance between love and logic. As you shared your journey with me, I see a similar blend of art and science in your approach. I always believed that career development is a form of craftsmanship.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

791.015

Some people overanalyze and calculate every step, while others are more free spirited and go with the flow. But ultimately, it's about finding that balance between art and science, feeling our way and figuring things out as we go.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

812.808

Yeah, that resonates with me.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

814.99

You mentioned agtech, education technology, as your focus. When I first got involved in the agtech space, and I still am, I was particularly active on the investment side. Every time I met an entrepreneur from any part of the world, my first question was always, why are you founding an ag tech company? The reason I ask is that when it comes to education technology, passion is crucial.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

856.308

Of course, you need to be smart and have the business acumen, the head, but the heart has to be there too. I found that in education technology, that fire inside your heart is essential. Especially in those days, venture valuations for other types of tech like fintech or blockchain were much higher, while agtech was relatively lower. That's why I really care about the why behind the work.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

87.063

I used to invest in education technology, and now Vince is building a new agtech solution. This episode is about transforming the learning experience and outcomes for everyone, both as individuals and as a community. If you care about elevating your career, work, and skills, stick with us. You won't regret it.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

895.373

What kind of impact do you want to make? And do you truly mean it when you say impact? So back to you, my question isn't just about why agtech, but also out of all the issues and opportunities in the learning space, why did you decide to focus specifically on live group learning?

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

924.798

A couple of things. So in terms of why group learning, which I guess for people's context, SparkWise is a platform that really scales live group learning where professionals come together. They'll be real time video solving problems. They are practicing judgment. They are giving each other feedback and they're really growing together and building skills together.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

950.464

And there are two things that I would say that really underpin this approach. One is I mentioned I started my career at McKinsey, and then I spent my time in a lot of different organizations across all sectors, partly through work through McKinsey and then work through the international development stuff I did everywhere. And

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

973.343

One thing I really appreciate about McKinsey and consulting was that they invest a lot of resources into developing their people because people are truly their core asset. And it's a place where people fight to get onto training programs. And that's the first thing I experienced. So I just thought that was actually what training looked like in corporates. I thought, so they put you into teams.

Chief Change Officer

#346 Vince Jeong: Scaling Learning Without Losing Soul

998.067

So you work together, it's super interactive and it's really engaging. And I thought that's what training was until I saw how different training felt like in other organizations that just don't have the resources to invest at that level and at the scale that McKinsey was. And so and a lot of making the training that I really loved was in this live group format.

Chief Change Officer

#345 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part Two

1089.218

Oh, it sounds like the missing pieces aren't simply resources or funding. It's really about people, talent, and the lack of real coordination. community, coalition, like you said, humility. All of that ties directly back to your mission, pursuing change at the intersection of culture, capital, and cause. I think we've covered some incredibly powerful ground today. But before we close,

Chief Change Officer

#345 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part Two

1133.633

Any final thought you'd like to share? Maybe something we didn't get to? Or a message you want to leave with the audience? Whether it's about impact, AI, or something else close to your heart?

Chief Change Officer

#345 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part Two

1228.075

That's such a powerful reminder. And honestly, I needed to hear it too. I'm going through my own transition at the moment. There are surely things that bother me, challenge me. But like you said, the key is to look at who's already working on those problems I care about. And then ask, how can I add to that? Where can my skills, my background, or even my voice help amplify that problem or solution?

Chief Change Officer

#345 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part Two

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And from there, it becomes about execution. collecting the right data, tracking what matters, making smarter decisions, measuring your risks, and accelerating both the scale and depth of impact over time.

Chief Change Officer

#345 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part Two

13.07

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Sienna Jackson, a two-time founder, systems thinker, and someone who's been rewriting the rules since she was a teenager.

Chief Change Officer

#345 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part Two

1318.991

And that brings our series to a close. Sienna's journey is proof that change doesn't start with the loudest voice in the room. It starts with clarity, curiosity, and the courage to take the first step. Whether she's guiding companies through complex decisions, or helping entrepreneurs and founders across Africa scale their ideas. She reminds us, every man-made problem has a man-made solution.

Chief Change Officer

#345 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part Two

1362.844

And often, the most powerful thing you can do is help the helpers. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#345 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part Two

142.074

Let's get into it. That brings us to a good segue, your social impact work. What made you step into that space in the first place? You mentioned earlier about being like an auditor, someone who helps organizations understand the impact they've made, both the good and the unintended, But let's rewind a little. What drove you to move from the movie-making industry into social impact?

Chief Change Officer

#345 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part Two

192.281

And second, how would you describe your own approach to measuring and creating impact?

Chief Change Officer

#345 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part Two

63.713

We were introduced through a former guest, Chris Hare. And right away, I knew we spoke the same language. Real talk, human-centric ideas, and sharp thinking with no fluff. Sienna started college at 14, interned at the Weinstein Company by 17, and later led music and content at Spine Glass Media.

Chief Change Officer

#345 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part Two

650.303

Wow. Honestly, I was just so drawn in by what you said. I kind of zoned out from coming up with more questions because I was so absorbed in your story. And while listening, someone instantly came to my mind. She is a former guest, actually one of the guests in season one, a founding guest, my classmate from Chicago Booth. She is from France, but currently in Senegal.

Chief Change Officer

#345 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part Two

687.58

Africa, serving as the technical advisor to the government, working on innovation and economic development. I feel like the two of you might really connect. You mentioned Africa, you mentioned Ethiopia being your biggest project yet. Who knows, maybe Senegal could be your next destination.

Chief Change Officer

#345 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part Two

783.089

You started this back in 2020. five years now, and so much has changed since then. The worrying, the symptoms, and even the conversations we're having around impact. As you've grown your business and expanded your advisory work, I'm curious, what barriers have you seen or experienced along the way? Impact is a noble cause, no doubt about it. And I imagine a lot of people support it in theory.

Chief Change Officer

#345 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part Two

823.116

But in practice, what gets in the way? Is it mindset? I don't think money or technology are the biggest barriers. Those tend to be solvable. I'd love to hear from you to learn from you what real challenges have you run into. And how did you navigate or solve them?

Chief Change Officer

#345 Sienna Jackson: From Hollywood to Hard Metrics — Part Two

98.1

Today, she is the CEO and co-founder of Notera, a B2B software company helping large enterprises control the risk of employment litigation and automate HR compliance. And yes, AI plays a big role in that. In this two-part series, We talk about chasing excellence without burning out, navigating boardrooms as the only one in the room, and why equity has to be measured if you want it to matter.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

1010.447

So you're saying that these micro drama series are essentially a volume-driven strategy by tech companies. They invest in creating content such as hiring writers to craft stories and shooting short series. The initial episodes are free, drawing in viewers, and once the audience is hooked, they introduce a paywall starting around episode 11.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

1046.608

It sounds like a clever subscription model, and I imagine they also monetize through advertisements. Your industry, in the Chinese context, is people-focused and people-driven. Engaging with so many different parties is essential to getting things done, but in the U.S., for example,

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

1070.879

With the launch of OpenAI and other AI-driven tech companies, industries like media, news, and Hollywood have felt significant ripple effects. We've seen things like strikes in Hollywood over concerns about job losses, with AI potentially replacing roles like scriptwriters, producers, and others in the production process. What about China? AI is a hot topic there.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

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In your industry, have you seen AI being integrated yet? Or maybe it's already causing some tension. or discussions about its potential impact?

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

1183.968

Speaking of AI versus human, I have to bring up your book, Light of Story. It's in Chinese, not yet available in English, but it's more than a guide on how to tell stories in TV and film. It's also about using stories to create both commercial and social impact. One phrase from the book really stood out to me.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

120.105

Jin has written books, scripts, and produced both movies and TV series. How did she achieve all this? And more importantly, why? It all started with a simple childhood dream. which is a love for TV series. That passion transformed into a devoted career. Let's listen to the story of a storyteller.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

1215.782

Translated into English, it says, human nature remains unchanged, but people's hearts are changing. That feels so true and philosophical, perhaps influenced by your sociology background. So given your understanding of the past and the future of the entertainment industry in China, what are some of your future plans? for your company?

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In today's episode, I'm thrilled to interview Jing Zhao, a TV and filmmaker from China.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

414.78

Despite your passion for TV series, how did you build your track record? How did you grow your network in the entertainment industry and eventually launch your first TV series?

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

50.755

Filmmaking is a multi-billion dollar industry that thrives on the art and business of storytelling. and for sure that shares stories from characters all around the world, how could I not feature someone who has mastered the craft of telling profitable stories? Jean's journey is nothing short of remarkable. From a small town girl to a sociology major,

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

548.153

From your experience, how did you overcome this challenge to take that crucial first step? How did you gain recognition early on so as to build momentum and eventually move up and accelerate your career?

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

761.264

From what I've gathered, there's no such thing as pure luck or magic behind success. In today's social media-driven world, weird people make overnight success seem real. But the truth is, every success story is built on a lot of groundwork. You shared how writing a book became a learning journey for you.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

789.209

Similarly, it's about getting closer to the right circles, meeting relevant people, learning from them, letting them get to know you, and fostering relationships. That's how opportunities start to align with your interests. Even if the first step is more like taking an unpaid job, it gets you in the door and builds momentum.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

814.121

But I remember you mentioning that when you decided to leave your previous job to pursue your passion for TV, the industry wasn't exactly booming. It was already facing challenges. And then COVID hit, making things even harder. Yet you still took that leap, perhaps partly for educational purposes.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

838.396

So I'm curious, what was the state of the TV industry in China when you decided to make that transition? How did the pandemic reshape things?

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

84.955

She later transitioned into accounting and even moved to the U.S. to work as an accountant. But that wasn't the end. She went deeper into the business world, earning an MBA from Chicago Bull. Another bull privet took her into venture capital and then back to China. where she built her network and credentials from scratch in the entertainment industry.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

924.97

So you were saying there was a flood of hot money, short-term, speculative, opportunistic investment driving the entertainment industry 10 years ago. Then came the rise of social media and the internet, which opened the floodgates to content of all kinds. With that surge, naturally, came a lot of junk, low quality, and poorly produced material that overwhelmed the industry.

Chief Change Officer

#266 Jean Zhou: From Balance Sheets to Box Office

962.81

You mentioned something interesting, micro drama series. This format seems to have gained traction in China. What exactly is a micro-drama series in a Chinese context? How does it differ from traditional format? And what's driving its popularity?

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

105.725

From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition, to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shares how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In the next episodes, we'll explore the learning required for transformation, why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skill stacking is the future.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

12.614

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This is a three-part series with Colin Selvidge.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

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Let me share with you one live example, which is this podcast show. When I first started, it was a weekly show, one episode per week on average. Now, seven episodes one week, which means it has become a daily show, one episode per day, Then some people joke with me. Hey, Vince, are you using AI for all of this? And my answer is simple.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

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There's no tool out there right now that can holistically handle the entire process of creating seven episodes a week. Sure, I use ChatGPT to check grammar or refine some copywriting when I need a bit of inspiration. But beyond that, everything else is on me.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

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I invite every guest personally, schedule pre-calls, talk with them for at least 30 minutes before actual recording, send follow-up emails, handle all the nitty-gritty details, and of course, host the show myself. This voice you hear, that's all human. Beyond editing every single piece, I do it myself, with the soundtrack.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

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I know there's so-called AI-driven tools that claim to pick segments for audiograms or do the heavy lifting. But honestly, I do it manually. I'm so immersed in each conversation that I know exactly which moments stand out and deserve to be highlighted.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

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is a lot of human touch a lot of my personal footprint my single print in every part of the process and that's what creates the final product looking ahead i think the strategy for individuals whether in work or life has to involve finding the balance

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

1400.615

Along the way, we need to decide which parts of the process need more human touch, where monitoring, intuition, and judgment are essential, and then identify which parts can be standardized or delegated to AI to work faster, with more precision, and on a larger scale. That's what I see as a way forward, creating your own strategy for division of labor between the human and the machine.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

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And finally, in part three, we'll tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Buckle up. This one is a ride.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

193.888

I kind of agree or disagree with what you just said. Lifelong learning is about the attitude, in my opinion. Lifelong learning isn't just about acquiring new knowledge. It's about figuring out how you learn best. Some people thrive in classroom settings or in-person workshops, while others prefer self-paced digital formats.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

228.848

The methods vary, but the goal is the same, which is to keep growing, to keep learning. When it comes to skill stacking, I see it as something deeper. You mentioned it's about purposefully merging diverse skills to solve complex challenges, and I think you're right. What's often missing isn't the means to learn, We have more access than ever to tools, training, and knowledge.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

263.318

The gap lies in connecting the dots between those skills and leveraging them in meaningful ways to multiply the impact. In my view, we are living in a tool economy, tool, T-O-O-L. Everything is about the tool. whether it's check GPT today, Google yesterday, or whatever the next hot thing will be. The mindset is, if you have a problem, there's a tool for that. Need a solution?

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

299.427

Just grab a hammer, a screwdriver. What is the problem? Most of the time, those tools are just solving service-level symptoms. not addressing the deeper underlying issues. It's like putting a band-aid on a cut without treating the infection. Sure, the immediate problem looks solved, but the root cause persists, and people end up repeating the same mistakes.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

335.627

I see this pattern a lot, especially among knowledge workers. They buy into the idea of lifelong learning, sign up for courses, pay for certifications, and stack up all these skills. But they don't actually go anywhere with them. Why? Because the key isn't just acquiring skills, it's in connecting them, applying them to real-life scenarios, case by case, and solving problems with them.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

371.081

in an integrated manner. So the missing piece is less about technical skills and more about human skills, what most people call solved skills. Problem solving, critical thinking, emotional intelligence, communication, these are the connective tissue that make skill stacking impactful. Without them, you're just collecting tools in a toolbox. You don't know how to use effectively.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

404.007

That's where I think the future of lifelong learning needs to focus. Not just teaching new skills, but on helping people build the connections between them and apply them in meaningful, impactful ways. It's not about the tools themselves. It's about what you build with them.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

45.869

In part one, the first episode, we'll dive into Colin's fascinating journey as a self-proclaimed change addict turned change guru. Colin's career spans continents, cultures, and industries seven countries lived in, seven more seconded to, and projects in over 70 nations.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

624.369

So you've been diving deep into AI lately. As someone with a strong background in change management and leadership, how do you see this technology shaping the future of change management and skills decking? What's your vision for where we're headed?

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

75.434

From organizational transformation to personal reinvention, he has mastered the art of embracing change and applying those lessons to life. In this conversation, Colin unpacks his unique perspective on change. How throwing himself into the unknown led to unparalleled growth and insight.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

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Destruction and wastage. It's just noise.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

876.447

One thing that many people agree on, but I don't think they are fully figured out yet, It's the importance of human skills in an AI-driven world. I like to call it human intelligence. In fact, that's the essence of this podcast. My goal is to elevate human intelligence by uniting global voices like yours. For me, human intelligence is about being experience-driven,

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

914.346

time-tested and grounded in real-life skills. It's about tapping into hindsight, insight, and foresight, exactly like the wisdom you shared over the past hour. And while we talk about human intelligence being crucial in the AI era, I think that's exactly what we are lacking.

Chief Change Officer

#265 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Three

941.633

With all these tools, social media platforms, and tech innovations, people aren't developing essential skills like communication, which is at the core of human intelligence. So my question to you is this, human skills are critical, but how do we bring them back How do we nurture and develop these skills as we move forward?

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

106.34

From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition, to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shares how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In the next episodes, we'll explore the learning required for transformation, why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skill stacking is the future.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

12.577

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This is a three-part series with Colin Selvidge.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

1401.313

I kind of agree or disagree with what you just said. Lifelong learning is about the attitude in my opinion. Lifelong learning isn't just about acquiring new knowledge. It's about figuring out how you learn best. Some people thrive in classroom settings or in-person workshops, while others prefer self-paced digital formats.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

142.659

And finally, in part three, we'll tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Buckle up. This one is a ride. Like you said, one of the threats running through your experience is change and strategy. You've worked with so many firms and organizations, guiding them through their transformations, so you must have seen countless business cases unfold.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

1436.287

The methods vary, but the goal is the same, which is to keep growing, to keep learning. When it comes to skill stacking, I see it as something deeper. What you mentioned is about purposefully merging diverse skills to solve complex challenges, and I think you're right. What's often missing isn't the means to learn. We have more access than ever to tools, training, and knowledge.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

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The gap lies in connecting the dots between those skills and leveraging them in meaningful ways to multiply the impact. In my view, we are living in a tool economy, tool, T-O-O-L. Everything is about the tool, whether it's ChatGPT today, Google yesterday, or whatever the next hot thing will be. The mindset is, if you have a problem, there's a tool for that. Need a solution?

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

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Just grab a hammer, a screwdriver. What is the problem? Most of the time, those tools are just solving service-level symptoms, not addressing the deeper underlying issues. It is like putting a band-aid on a cut without treating the infection. Sure, the immediate problem looks solved, but the root cause persists, and people end up repeating the same mistakes.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

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I see this pattern a lot, especially among knowledge workers. They buy into the idea of lifelong learning, sign up for courses, pay for certifications, and stack up all these skills. But they don't actually go anywhere with them. Why? Because the key isn't just acquiring skills, it's in connecting them, applying them to real-life scenarios, case by case, and solving problems with them.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

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in an integrated manner. So the missing piece is less about technical skills and more about human skills, what most people call solved skills. Problem solving, critical thinking, emotional intelligence, communication, these are the connective tissue that make skills stacking impactful. Without them, you're just collecting tools in a toolbox. You don't know how to use effectively.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

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That's where I think the future of lifelong learning needs to focus. Not just teaching new skills, but on helping people build the connections between them and apply them in meaningful, impactful ways. It's not about the tools themselves. It's about what you build with them.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

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What have you learned from these consulting projects and organization change initiatives that could apply to individual situations? Are there lessons from these business cases that also resonate on a personal level, especially when we face dilemmas or crossroads in our own lives?

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

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In Part 1, the first episode, we'll dive into Colin's fascinating journey as a self-proclaimed change addict turned change guru. Colin's career spans continents, cultures, and industries, seven countries lived in, seven more seconded to, and projects in over 70 nations.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

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I can totally relate to your Canadian example. I've had a similar experience myself. We can chat more about it offline. But eventually, it led to me leaving that company. If I think about it in a more personal context, like within a family, change isn't just about one person. It's a group decision that can lead to challenges too. For example,

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

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When I used to help younger professionals plan their MBA career paths, many of them would ask me, Vince, should I apply to this school or that school? Should I study in this city or another city? Often, these decisions weren't just about them. They were married, so the decision had to include the spouse. My answer to them was, this isn't just about you. What does your husband or wife think?

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

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Have you discussed whether it will mean long distance for two years? Will they move with you? If they do, will they be able to work? If not, what happens then? That's where the tension often starts. One partner wants to change, but the other doesn't, or they see the change differently. It creates conflict, and that's not unlike what happens in a business setting.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

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One stakeholder might push for a big transformation, while others hesitate or resist because the interpretation of change is different. So yes, I think that dynamic applies across contexts, personal or professional.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

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From organizational transformation to personal reinvention, he has mastered the art of embracing change and applying those lessons to life. In this conversation, Colin unpacks his unique perspective on change. How throwing himself into the unknown led to unparalleled growth and insight.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

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Actually, you have so many degrees that people often ask me, Vince, are you collecting degrees? I usually laugh it off and say, no, I have three, and I talk each one very seriously. I don't even bother explaining why I pursued two MBAs anymore. But looking at you, Colin, you have even more. Would you consider yourself a lifelong learner? I imagine you have some strong opinions on that term.

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

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A lot of people lean on lifelong learning when they are at the crossroads or want to make a change in their lives. They fall back on education, upskilling, retooling, whatever the buzzword of the day might be. But you've shared some interesting ideas with me about skill stacking and how that might offer a more impactful approach. So what do you think of lifelong learning as a concept?

Chief Change Officer

#264 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part Two

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How do you see it evolving? And where does skill stacking fit into the equation?

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

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Are there lessons from these business cases that also resonate on a personal level, especially when we face dilemmas or crossroads in our own lives?

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

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From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition, to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shares how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In the next episodes, we'll explore the learning required for transformation, why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skills decking is the future.

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This is a three-part series with Colin Selvidge.

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

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Yeah.

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

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And finally, in part three, we'll tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Buckle up. This one is a ride. Colin, finally! I got you to my show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Good morning to you.

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

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Just now, Colin unpacked his unique perspective on change. Change addict turned change guru. From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shared how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In part two, tomorrow, we'll explore the learning required for transformation.

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

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Colin has, I don't even know how many degrees under his belt. Why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skill stacking is the future. And part three for Friday will tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Come back tomorrow and join us. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard...

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

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Colin is from Canada, the Big North, a very cold place. I used to live in Toronto myself. Colin is in another province, or in America, we call it a state. So Colin, let's start with your story. Who are you, what you're doing now, but also what did you do in the past? Your past, your journey, and your history.

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

46.416

In part one, the first episode, we'll dive into Colin's fascinating journey as a self-proclaimed change addict turned change guru. Colin's career spans continents, cultures, and industries. seven countries lived in, seven more secunded to, and projects in over 70 nations.

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

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In your self-introduction... Two words caught my attention. Change addict and change guru. How do you define these two terms?

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

75.967

From organizational transformation to personal reinvention, he has mastered the art of embracing change and applying those lessons to life. In this conversation, Colin unpacks his unique perspective on change. How throwing himself into the unknown led to unparalleled growth and insight.

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

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So being a change addict, a guru, would you say you're one of those who puts in a good amount of calculation behind each change? Or is it more like, oh, it's just that feeling? What type are you? Have you ever thought about that?

Chief Change Officer

#263 Colin Savage: The Frequent Flyer of Change Has Thoughts on AI—and Lifelong Learning — Part One

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Like you said, one of the threats running through your experience is change and strategy. You've worked with so many firms and organizations, guiding them through their transformations. So you must have seen countless business cases unfold. What have you learned from these consulting projects and organizational change initiatives that could apply to individual situations?

Chief Change Officer

#128 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part One

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Politics, whether in government or the office, is something that some people are really good at navigating. Some people thrive in it and even seek out more of it. It sounds like you saw Parliament as a stage to make a positive impact on the communities you care about. Your intentions were noble, but the environment made things worse.

Chief Change Officer

#128 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part One

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Not only were you unable to create the impact you wanted, but you also faced various attacks and toxic behavior. The same goes for office environments. Many corporate workers might be incredibly smart and capable, but they struggle to climb the corporate ladder because they either don't play politics, don't play it well, or aren't willing to play it at all.

Chief Change Officer

#128 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part One

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I've been in a corporate world and I've seen and experienced my share of political maneuvering. I've had my own struggles with mental health due to corporate politics. That's part of why I decided to become an entrepreneur, a free agent, rather than being bound or controlled by that environment.

Chief Change Officer

#128 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part One

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For many people, whether they are considering a job change, a career shift, or even trying to change the world as an entrepreneur, one key takeaway is to choose your environment and culture carefully. In certain cultures and environments, you can thrive and excel. In others, you might struggle. It doesn't mean you are not smart or that your intentions are not good enough.

Chief Change Officer

#128 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part One

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Seaham has over 20 years of experience across both the private and public sectors, along with a wealth of personal experiences. That's so much we can talk about today. Before that, could you give us an overview of your journey through the key milestones of your life and career? Then we'll explore different elements in more detail.

Chief Change Officer

#128 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part One

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Often, it's the environment and the culture that holds you back, preventing you from achieving what you want to achieve. That's been my experience.

Chief Change Officer

#128 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#128 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part One

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Yes, we met through common friends and explored common topics, which is one of the reasons why I really wanted to interview you. You have so much knowledge and real experience to share. As I mentioned in the show notes, I don't sell the success stories of my guests. They are obviously successful in their own way and in their own space.

Chief Change Officer

#128 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part One

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But what makes this podcast special is the real stories, the lived experiences, which sometimes aren't very pleasant. You mentioned mental health, which is undoubtedly a hot topic in today's world. Honestly, in a world as complex and challenging as ours, who can truly say they are perfectly mentally healthy? We all have to deal with different kinds of stress and burnout. So let's stop here.

Chief Change Officer

#128 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part One

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Let's talk about mental health. If I understood you correctly, is this something that stems from your years in politics? Or does it go further back? Maybe to your childhood, adolescence, or work life in the private sector? Please share more about the challenges you faced.

Chief Change Officer

#128 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part One

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She is a Moroccan immigrant, a burnout and bankruptcy survivor, a parliamentarian, a champion of diversity and inclusion. She is also the creator of Women Leaders OS and a Women's Leadership Coach. She is all these and more. Beyond these identities, what truly impresses me are the experiences that have shaped these transformations. Some people thrive in politics. others in stability.

Chief Change Officer

#128 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part One

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So far, I've had two guests in season one, both women who are involved in politics. One is a parliamentarian in Singapore, and the other one was a lawyer in Paris before moving to Senegal to get involved in politics and government. Now, she's deeply involved in public administration. In their respective capacities, they've made great impacts in their communities.

Chief Change Officer

#128 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part One

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I'd like to share a bit from their experiences. For example, the one in Singapore, my classmate from Chicago MBA, mentioned that the election period and its aftermath were the darkest times in her life. She didn't explicitly mention mental health, but she was attacked on social media for her age and so-called inexperience, being the youngest elected parliamentarian at that time.

Chief Change Officer

#128 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part One

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I bring this up because you mentioned that politics is a negative sum game. While I can imagine the satisfaction of being in a position of influence and making an impact on the communities you care about, I can also see how political games could be a major source of mental health challenges. Can you share more about the challenges you faced? during that time.

Chief Change Officer

#128 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part One

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And of course, without naming names, just the lessons you learned or specific incidents that led to struggles, perhaps even depression, I think that would be helpful.

Chief Change Officer

#128 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. How do I even begin to introduce our first guest from Belgium who has Moroccan roots? Her name is Siham El-Kawakibi.

Chief Change Officer

#128 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Rising from Rock Bottom to Achieve Peak Performance — Part One

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Siham thrives in adversity. She describes herself as more than resilient. She is anti-fragile. I see her as someone who has learned over time to turn adversity into an advantage. is not an inborn talent. Rather, it's something nurtured and developed. How? Let's find out. Hello, hello. Yes, I'm here. Thank you.

Chief Change Officer

#127 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part Two

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Lastly, we'll explore the crucial transition from education to employment and how her organization is helping students achieve better life outcomes. Sit back and enjoy this unfiltered conversation packed with insights and practical advice. Yeah, empathy, curiosity, and ownership are crucial for change. Like you said, no one really likes change unless it benefits them in some way.

Chief Change Officer

#127 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part Two

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Yes. I can't wait for you to announce the new goals because I can see this as a global issue for higher education institutions. Just a quick story to share with you. When you talk about career centers, I totally agree. Like a business, your clients are the students. But if the shop is set up in the basement, the customers won't go there.

Chief Change Officer

#127 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part Two

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Why not go to your customer directly, meaning the classroom, as you mentioned? From my experience, when I studied in the States, I attended Yale School of Management as an international MBA student. In the US, especially for brand name MBA programs, they're all well-funded, have a lot of resources.

Chief Change Officer

#127 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part Two

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From day one, they started talking about careers, preparing us for interviews and summer internships right from the start. That was just in August and September. And they were already talking about getting our resumes polished and reaching out to potential employers and alumni for informational interview. At first, I found it very stressful, but it was crucial training.

Chief Change Officer

#127 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part Two

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They immersed us in the mindset and skillset needed. So by the time we graduated, we were better prepared. I graduated right after 9-1-1, which wasn't an encouraging job market. But I acquired essential career skills during those two years, even before LinkedIn and other technologies were in place.

Chief Change Officer

#127 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part Two

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I think this kind of preparation is vital for undergraduates, regardless of whether they are at a state, university, an Ivy League school, or anywhere else. At the end of the day, we study something we are interested in, and we want to use that knowledge to make money, support ourselves, and help others. We want to feel fulfilled.

Chief Change Officer

#127 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part Two

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Education is a crucial means for us to achieve our goal and contribute to the society. If there are hurdles that hinder the process, it affects the mobility and progress of society, leading to social and economic problems. Bridget, I really appreciate your time. I know we overran, but I didn't want to cut you off because you have so much valuable insights to share.

Chief Change Officer

#127 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part Two

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I've learned a lot from you today.

Chief Change Officer

#127 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#127 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part Two

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It also needs to generate collective benefits. People often ask, why does change? How can we make things better? Why does my contribution matter in this case or that case? How can I help? Maybe I can help more than you expected. Ownership isn't just about being informed or notified. It's about contributing to the evolution of the change and being responsible for the outcome.

Chief Change Officer

#127 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part Two

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If the outcome isn't as good as expected, how can we work together to make it better? This sense of ownership, this power of ownership is so impactful.

Chief Change Officer

#127 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part Two

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Honestly, if I had an office and someone came in and said, Hey, we are going to implement this change. And because of that, I'm going to move from my corner office to a shared desk in a large area. I wouldn't be happy either. I can totally resonate with that scenario. Speaking of humanity, there's one growing area we are all watching closely.

Chief Change Officer

#127 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part Two

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AI is here to stay and will impact all areas of our lives, including education. There's a lot, a lot of hope for its potential in education. So for a change leader like you, the question isn't just about integrating AI into higher education, but how to make the best use of it.

Chief Change Officer

#127 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part Two

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Based on your experience working with these leaders and institutions, what could be the hurdles or challenges for the institutions in embracing and integrating AI into teaching, learning, and administration? How can they create a collective intelligence scenario that many people are looking forward to?

Chief Change Officer

#127 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part Two

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Bridget and I met at South by Southwest when we were on the same judging panel for startups in education technology. That was a time before COVID. Many changes have occurred ever since. Bridget has navigated these changes firsthand in higher education.

Chief Change Officer

#127 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part Two

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She's now leading a university innovation alliance focused on improving graduation outcomes for students from low-income families, a mission tied closely to her own background. In this episode, we'll explore how she convinced 11 schools to work together shifting the paradigm from competition to collaboration.

Chief Change Officer

#127 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part Two

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Your response is totally relevant, not just about AI, but in other matter, I want to get your take on before we conclude this interview, which is the student outcome. Youth help a lot of students. According to your website, over 68,000 from low-income backgrounds are expected to graduate by 2025. That's a significant achievement and an important KPI.

Chief Change Officer

#127 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part Two

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Now, given our discussion about AI, technology, and the job market, it's clear that the type and nature of jobs are changing rapidly. Ultimately, we go to college to get a job upon graduation. So, outcome for UIA or any school isn't just about graduation. It's about helping students achieve better life outcomes through education, from graduation to employment.

Chief Change Officer

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This transition from learning to earning is crucial. In terms of UIA, what have you done to help students move from education to employment? Perhaps is there something currently in place or part of your future vision? Can you share with us what's happening at this stage?

Chief Change Officer

#127 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I welcome Dr. Bridget Burns from the University Innovation Alliance.

Chief Change Officer

#127 From Rivals to Allies: Dr. Bridget Burns’ Mission to Transform Higher Ed — Part Two

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We'll discuss the resistance to change because of poorly designed processes and how improving these processes led to much greater acceptance. We'll talk about the importance of empathy, curiosity, and ownership in driving change. We'll also cover how AI is reshaping education and the challenges institutions face in integrating this technology.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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A leader cannot successfully drive organizational change without first mastering their own personal transformation. So we'll dive into why understanding the natural process of personal change can help you fast-track your transformation.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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how to manage self-doubt, avoid sabotaging your own progress, and how to make career moves that truly work in your favor instead of simply running away from one undesirable situation to the next. Let's get started. Jennifer, tell us a bit about yourself. I know you've been in coaching for a long time. You specialize in coaching tech leaders manage and navigate change.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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As you were sharing, it brought back some personal memories for me, both in terms of personal change and organizational change I experienced during my time in the corporate world.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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You mentioned personal change, the do's and the don'ts, and I can see how those apply even to individuals making major transitions like leaving a corporate job to become an entrepreneur or starting a private practice, much like you did. Yes.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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As you mentioned the do's and don'ts in personal change, I can think of some specific examples like controlling your expenses while investing in your own new venture. It's important to generate hope, hold on to it, and get some quick wins. But what happens 12 or 18 months down the road? The process is challenging, especially when you're still building your practice. You are uncertain.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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And then you look at your friends, former classmates. They are getting promotions, landing new jobs as the big guys, the CEOs of big companies. And they seem to be doing so well. Meanwhile, you left a six-figure income to pursue something on your own, something unknown, something unproven, and you start questioning yourself. Self-doubt sneaks in, which can lead to what I call self-sabotage.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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Could you share your thoughts on this situation? It's something I've personally experienced and struggled with. It's not easy. I love to hear how you help your clients navigate this, whether they're facing personal change or dealing with external changes that they're part of but can't fully control. Rationally, they may want to move forward, but emotionally is a different story.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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Earlier, we talked about the natural personal process of change and touched on self-doubt and self-sabotage. In the next episode... We'll dive deeper into managing self-sabotage with the help of neuroscience and explore how to make career moves that truly work in your favor instead of just escaping one undesirable situation after another. Be sure to check back in the next 48 hours.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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The next episode will be ready for you. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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Can you tell us more about that?

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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Today, I'm sitting down with Jennifer Selby Long, who has spent the last 30 years helping tech leaders navigate the waves of tech evolution, leading and managing organizational change. In recent years, her focus has been on cybersecurity, digital transformation, and user experience. But don't tune out just yet. If you are not in those views,

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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So basically, you are helping a leader who sits at the center of a complex situation. They may have senior people above them, perhaps a CEO reporting to a board of directors, or they may be the CEO themselves. Below them, they have a whole team of people, some more senior, some at operational or junior level.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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This leader has to engage, convince, and motivate all these people to buy into the change and act on it. But each of these stakeholders has their own agenda. and that's not even touching on the emotional aspects involved.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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So you are helping this person in the middle, managing everyone around them while also guiding them on a more personal level, helping them find peace and balance while navigating change. Is that a good summary of what you do now?

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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Technology is such a huge and evolving field. I'm sure when you first started back in the 90s, as you said, the project found you. And now here we are in 2024 going into 2025, so much has changed in the tech space over the years. Could you be more specific about what areas of leadership you focus on today?

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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And maybe educate us a bit on how this evolution in technology and leadership has played out over the years?

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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Before we dive into your own experiences working with these leaders, sharing examples and stories, I'm curious, have you ever been coached yourself? Maybe through leadership training or personal coaching along the way? I'd love to hear about your experience as a learner, as a student being coached and how that experience has shaped or enhanced your abilities to help your clients today.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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What Jennifer shares is relevant to anyone looking to thrive in today's fast changing world. Give me 30 seconds and I guarantee you'll find something valuable in this conversation. This episode and the next is all about how to guide yourself through personal transformation and step into your next opportunity.

Chief Change Officer

#211 Jennifer Selby Long: Change Management Found Her—Now She’s Fixing Yours

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Great. Now let's explore your experience coaching others. You have a lot of depth. And one of the key topics we discussed was the process you call the natural personal process of change. Could you walk us through what that is, the do's, the don'ts, and some of the dangerous myths around it? And if it helps, give us examples, show us how it works in practice.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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I can see why the legal mindset resonates with you and me. It's such a perfect metaphor for building a life, a career, even a podcast that's uniquely mine. You're not just piecing together blocks. You're creating something with purpose, using elements that feel authentic to you.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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Just like how each brick contributes to a structure, every experience, every skill, every choice you make adds to your bigger picture. And just like a true master builder, you are following your own playbook assembling a vision that's completely your own. Nina, I love how you've tied together all these elements, the successful timeline, the legal mindset, and the reverse resume.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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For anyone listening, whether you're facing a career transition, feeling stuck, and simply preparing for change, These tools can really help you navigate that journey. Thank you so much, Lena. Thank you for sharing your story and your wisdom.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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And instead of staying down, she jumped into technology, starting from scratch, and reinvented herself yet again. Yesterday, in part one of our conversation, we explored Nina's journey, her training, her trials, and her setbacks. Then today in part two, we'll explore the tools Nina has developed over the years to help others rise above their challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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Tools like the reverse resume and successful timeline. We are not talking about your typical resume or conventional ideas of success. We are going beyond that. So let's begin this incredible journey with Nina. Absolutely. And I think that's a great point. For anyone listening, the takeaway here is to think outside the box when it comes to your skills and experience.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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We often limit ourselves to what we have always done or the industry we know, but those same skills can often apply in ways we wouldn't initially expect. In my own experience, A guest on the show, an executive recruiter, once told me I would meet a great executive recruiter myself. At first, I was surprised recruiting wasn't something I've ever considered.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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But she pointed out that my ability to support talent, connect with people, and bring the right voices onto the show demonstrated qualities that could be valuable in her industry. So, just like your own story, it's about being creative and open-minded when exploring new directions. Sometimes it takes an outside perspective to see what we are really capable of.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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So you've moved into technology, built a new version of yourself, and now you're out there as a solo entrepreneur, as an author, as a speaker. It's amazing to see how your career has evolved. As we're talking about transitions and career paths, resumes often come up. Traditionally, resume is seen as an advertisement, a highlight reel of achievements.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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But you introduced me to the concept of a reverse resume. Could you walk us through what that is and how it might help those who are considering a change or currently navigating a transition? I think it could be a powerful tool to help open up minds and see new possibilities.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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Professional athletes. Today, I'm sitting down with Nina Sossaman Polk, a former professional gymnast who started her journey at about four years old and went on to join the US gymnastic team. In her own words, gymnastics is a perfect example of resilience. You literally fall down and get back up all day, every day, as you learn new skills.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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Yes, this isn't just a single page. It's more like a notebook, something dynamic that we keep updating. It can serve us as a reminder, especially in those moments when we are feeling down, discouraged, or unsure. As entrepreneurs, there's always something happening, some challenge or setback. But when you can look back at your progress, it's a powerful reminder that you've overcome so much.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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It's just another bump in the road, not a showstopper. Just keep moving forward. Don't let it derail you.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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Exactly. It's like you said, a mix of all your past achievements and challenges, marking different points in time, But the other side is blank, representing the future, open for you to shape. It's all about how you want to connect those dots and create your path forward.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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Is that the successful timeline you mentioned to me before?

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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Yes, exactly. That's the successful timeline, right? is a way to look at your life journey as a series of pivotal moments

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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That mindset became part of Nina's DNA, and it carried her through some incredible twists and turns. From the heartbreak of not making the Olympic team to leaving the sport for good after an injury, she faced one identity crisis after another. But she didn't stop there. Nina built a successful journalism career that spent 17 years only to be let go despite being a beloved news anchor.

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. These days, we talk a lot about resilience. We can discuss the psychology of it all day long. But who actually walks the walk and talks the talk when it comes to resilience?

Chief Change Officer

#159 Nina Sossamon-Pogue from U.S. Gymnastics Team: When Life Cuts Your Routine Short - Part Two

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So each of us has to define our own successful timeline. Yes.

Chief Change Officer

#151 From Corporate Hustle to Happy Hustle: Rahshea Cardiff’s Guide to Workplace Joy – Part One

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One of those layers is happiness, which can be an emotion, but also an approach to leadership and management. before we dive into your work with Happy Companies. I know you've experienced some major transitions yourself. Moving from a large corporation into a new venture is a big leap in itself. But on top of that, you faced some personal challenges along the way.

Chief Change Officer

#151 From Corporate Hustle to Happy Hustle: Rahshea Cardiff’s Guide to Workplace Joy – Part One

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Could you share what that journey was like? And how did you find your grounding to move forward even stronger?

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#151 From Corporate Hustle to Happy Hustle: Rahshea Cardiff’s Guide to Workplace Joy – Part One

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In this two-part series, she shares her journey of resilience, why she joined Happy Companies, and how she's working to enhance employee experience using technology, but without losing the touch, the human touch. In today's episode, we'll focus on Rishia's personal story and career transitions.

Chief Change Officer

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Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Living in the present is not just a saying. It's truly a way of being. When we let go of the constant worry about what's next and really ground ourselves in what's happening now, every moment feels richer, more meaningful.

Chief Change Officer

#151 From Corporate Hustle to Happy Hustle: Rahshea Cardiff’s Guide to Workplace Joy – Part One

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And like you said, it's not about being overly dramatic or anxious about what could happen tomorrow, but rather about appreciating what we have right here, right now. It's the small things, picking up your son, making dinner, enjoying a little downtime, that could mean so much when we approach them mindfully. That idea of the present being a gift really resonates with me too.

Chief Change Officer

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I love that colorful panda quote for a reason. It's simple but so profound. When we live in the now, we allow ourselves to fully experience life. And that's what makes it all worthwhile.

Chief Change Officer

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Just now, Richa shared honestly about her own personal journey and career transitions. On Tuesday, we'll explore her role at Happy Companies and her vision for transforming the workplace, balancing tech innovation with genuine care for people. Join us again on Tuesday and find yourself some happiness. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#151 From Corporate Hustle to Happy Hustle: Rahshea Cardiff’s Guide to Workplace Joy – Part One

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If you like what you heard, don't forget subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

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On Tuesday, part two will explore her role at Happy Companies and her vision for transforming the workplace, balancing tech innovation with genuine care for people. Let's dive in and find some happiness. Rishia, welcome to our show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#151 From Corporate Hustle to Happy Hustle: Rahshea Cardiff’s Guide to Workplace Joy – Part One

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You spend over 20 years in corporate America with some powerhouse names. Best Buy, Starbucks, and Microsoft. all in different industries. Could you walk us through a bit of that journey? How did your role and approach evolve across these big firms, especially since you've always been focused on people management and leadership?

Chief Change Officer

#151 From Corporate Hustle to Happy Hustle: Rahshea Cardiff’s Guide to Workplace Joy – Part One

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You've worked at big names like Best Buy, Starbucks, and Microsoft, each with their own well-defined structure, policies, and, dare I say, bureaucracy. I can relate because during my 15 years in large corporations, mainly in finance, I experienced a similar environment. On the one hand, as an employee, I appreciated the structure, the resources, and the weight that comes with a big brand.

Chief Change Officer

#151 From Corporate Hustle to Happy Hustle: Rahshea Cardiff’s Guide to Workplace Joy – Part One

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But when it came to handling people issues, especially from the employee's side of things, I often felt disconnected from HR. Many times, it felt like they were more focused on enforcing policy rather than truly helping employees. that KPIs seemed more aligned with executing company policies rather than supporting employee needs.

Chief Change Officer

#151 From Corporate Hustle to Happy Hustle: Rahshea Cardiff’s Guide to Workplace Joy – Part One

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I'm thrilled to introduce Rishia Cardiff, the VP of Partnerships at Happy Companies. Happy Companies is a venture focused on building happier, healthier workplaces. Rochelle brings over 20 years of experience in people management across major brands like Best Buy, Starbucks, and Microsoft. And she's deeply passionate about talent development and employee experience.

Chief Change Officer

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Given your extensive experience in people function within large companies, I'd love to hear how you managed this balance. How did you reconcile your personal passion for putting people first with the reality of representing and implementing firm policies, which sometimes don't always feel like they are in the workforce's best interest?

Chief Change Officer

#151 From Corporate Hustle to Happy Hustle: Rahshea Cardiff’s Guide to Workplace Joy – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. who couldn't use a bit more happiness? This episode and the next dives deep into what it means to find joy and resilience in both work and life.

Chief Change Officer

#151 From Corporate Hustle to Happy Hustle: Rahshea Cardiff’s Guide to Workplace Joy – Part One

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As we all know, bureaucracy, corporate politics, and constant changes like layoffs and digital transformation can make it tough for employees to thrive and survive. Richier herself has navigated intense transitions. leaving a corporate role at Microsoft to pursue entrepreneurship, experiencing the loss of her mother, facing divorce, and raising her first child.

Chief Change Officer

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The people function is crucial, but it's also uniquely challenging. Unlike tech, policy, or finance, You can't just apply a formula or a quick fix to people issues. There are so many layers, emotions, personalities, motivations, incentives, and politics, all of which make it complex to navigate.

Chief Change Officer

#394 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part Two

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Here comes the workplace to close our conversation. If one of your four children came to you and said, Mom, I feel stuck in my career or just in life. What would you say? They're probably in their 20s or 30s now, right in the thick of building their lives. And as we know, every generation is facing its own challenges in today's world.

Chief Change Officer

#394 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part Two

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With all your experience guiding others, individuals, leaders, organizations, How do you bring those same lessons and tools into your own family life? Or do you blend in those insights in a subtle manner through how you show up as a parent, maybe even now as a grandparent? I'd love to hear how your work and wisdom show up in the most personal part of your life.

Chief Change Officer

#394 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Rebecca Sultans, strategy coach, facilitator, and someone who's been running her own show for 27 years.

Chief Change Officer

#394 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part Two

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Yes, absolutely. And you're so right. The balance between guiding and letting go is such a delicate part of parenting. especially for those who lead others in their careers. You want to share what you've learned, offer your support, maybe even pass down a few tools. But at the same time, your kids aren't your clients. They are their own people.

Chief Change Officer

#394 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part Two

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So instead of controlling the outcome and even the process, it becomes more about preparing them, helping them view their own judgment, confidence, and resilience. And yes, that means allowing them to make decisions, even the wrong ones, and being there to support them through the consequences.

Chief Change Officer

#394 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part Two

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Sure. Rebecca, we've covered so much ground today. Truly a lot, a lot of rich and thoughtful insights. Before we close, is there anything you'd like to add?

Chief Change Officer

#394 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part Two

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That's where we'll leave it. Rebecca doesn't offer tidy answers, but she does offer frameworks, metaphors, and the kind of permission a lot of us need right now. Reinvention doesn't mean changing everything. Sometimes it's just seeing your life from a new angle Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#394 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part Two

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#394 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part Two

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You are one of the few guests, or maybe even the first, who has such deep experience on both sides of transformation, i.e. organizations and individuals. So I love to hear your take. What are the similarities between these two types of change? And just as important, what are the differences?

Chief Change Officer

#394 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part Two

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I feel like you're in a rare position to speak to both and probably one of the best people to break it down clearly.

Chief Change Officer

#394 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part Two

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She trained for international development, hit pause to raise four kids, and ended up building a career that never stopped evolving. In this two-part series, we talk about the moments that change everything. Career profits, creative rocks, and what it really takes to keep moving forward without burning out. Rebecca's story is sharp, honest, and refreshingly unpolished. Let's get into it.

Chief Change Officer

#394 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part Two

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Earlier, you said something that really stuck with me, that history is a springboard to the future, not a drag or inertia. It made me think of the comfort zone. Sometimes that zone becomes so comfortable, people don't want to leave it. Given your own life experience, raising four children, now with two grandchildren. You've lived through many transitions yourself.

Chief Change Officer

#394 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part Two

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So when you work with people who are in that more mature stage of life, how do you help them reimagine, gain clarity, and actually take action? How do you get them to use their past as a launch pad Not a reason to stay seated in the same old armchair

Chief Change Officer

#393 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part One

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Good morning, Rebecca. Welcome to the show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Finally, talking to someone from Canada again.

Chief Change Officer

#393 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Rebecca Southans, strategy coach, facilitator, and someone who's been running her own show for 27 years.

Chief Change Officer

#393 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part One

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Correct me if I'm wrong. First, re-imagine is about creating a vision. But many people either don't have a clear vision, or if they do, it's not specific enough. That's where you step in. Help them define it, make it real, and break it down into something they can actually see and articulate. Then comes the reassurance, like getting a personal trainer. They are not just paying for the gym.

Chief Change Officer

#393 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part One

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They are paying for someone to keep them accountable, motivated, and moving forward. That's the role you play, helping them stay disciplined, reminding them that it's hard but doable, and that the result is worth it. You also bring in tools not just to help them execute, but to make sure the progress is sustainable. And this applies not just to individuals, but also to organizations.

Chief Change Officer

#393 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part One

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Sometimes the organization knows it wants to change, but doesn't even know what needs to change. You help them discover that first and then guide them through the process. Did I get that right?

Chief Change Officer

#393 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part One

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That's it for today. We've covered Rebecca's own private PAC journey, from global work to solo primary life. But next, we get into what she's learned from helping others through their turning points. In part two, we talk about drawing the future before chasing it, finding momentum when motivation is gone missing, and why midlife might be the best time to reimagine everything. See you there.

Chief Change Officer

#393 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#393 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part One

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What made you decide to start that practice? Was there a specific moment or experience that sparked it?

Chief Change Officer

#393 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part One

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When I look at your website, it honestly feels like you cover everything, especially for large institutions. I saw the range, schools, higher ed institutions, government agencies, private companies. You work with executives, you work with individuals, you've published a book, you've got a book club, and even what looks like off-site coaching programs or retreats coming up. That's a lot.

Chief Change Officer

#393 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part One

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And I imagine you did not launch with everything all at once. You probably went through your own transitions. testing, adjusting, evolving the whole practice over time. So rather than diving into all 27 years, we need a whole series for that, maybe just share a bit about the journey of building this practice. What were some of the major turning points?

Chief Change Officer

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Were there moments where you had to start over or rebuild from scratch? anything that really shaped the way your work looks today, especially while helping others through their transitions?

Chief Change Officer

#393 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part One

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She trained for international development, hit pause to raise four kids, and ended up building a career that never stopped evolving. In this two-part series, we talk about the moments that change everything. Career profits, creative rocks, and what it really takes to keep moving forward without burning out. Rebecca's story is sharp, honest, and refreshingly unpolished. Let's get into it.

Chief Change Officer

#393 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part One

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what now is a seven-year chapter certainly will figure very prominently in that storyline because it changed the game for me as i was listening to your story one word came to my mind actually is not even my word is yours the word is re-imagine that's exactly what you're doing now for your clients for individuals and you've done it for yourself too.

Chief Change Officer

#393 Rebecca Sutherns: Career on Her Terms—From Global Aid to Solopreneur Strategy — Part One

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You've mentioned that first move, how you went somewhere, came back, studied, learned, and transformed. That's the process. It sounds like that spirit of re-imagining is at the core of everything you do now. But before someone even get to that breakthrough moment, There are a lot of challenges, things that block them from even starting to reimagine.

Chief Change Officer

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Whether it's mindset, fear, financial pressure, and just feeling stuck, feeling incapable, there are always barriers. So in your experience, what are some of the biggest challenges people face before they can truly reimagine their future? And as a follow-up, could you share any examples of how you've helped someone move through that stuck place and reach the other side?

Chief Change Officer

#392 Robert MacPhee: From Parking Cars to Coaching Clarity—Lessons from a Chicken Soup Insider — Part Two

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He's the author of Living a Values-Based Life and the creator of the leadership model called Excellent Decisions. In this two-part series, we'll dive into what values really mean, why they matter for leading fulfilling careers and lives, and why figuring out our values can be challenging. We'll also explore how to make our values visible and sustainable in a world that's constantly changing.

Chief Change Officer

#392 Robert MacPhee: From Parking Cars to Coaching Clarity—Lessons from a Chicken Soup Insider — Part Two

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Robert, we've got a lot of good stuff today in our interview. Any final message you'd like to share with the audience?

Chief Change Officer

#392 Robert MacPhee: From Parking Cars to Coaching Clarity—Lessons from a Chicken Soup Insider — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. A few years ago, I joined a growing venture as the chief people officer. It lasted just six weeks.

Chief Change Officer

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I like your quote. without implementation is just a nice conversation. Thank you so much, Robert.

Chief Change Officer

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#392 Robert MacPhee: From Parking Cars to Coaching Clarity—Lessons from a Chicken Soup Insider — Part Two

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If you feel stuck in your current workplace, it's not necessarily your fault. Often, it's just a misalignment of values. Don't bend your values to fit in. Instead, find a place in a tribe whose values resonate with yours. That's where true happiness and success lie. Let's dive in. My follow-up question is about what happens after we identify our values.

Chief Change Officer

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Even if we genuinely figure out and believe in them, whatever those values are, like honesty, humanity, the next step is the hardest, practicing them consistently. How do you advise your clients to implement the values in daily life? For businesses, this could be challenging, but equally difficult for individuals. Even with the best intentions, staying mindful and consistent isn't easy.

Chief Change Officer

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How do you suggest we monitor and sustain our actions to align with our values? Talk is cheap. I believe talk and talk and walk the walk matters when it comes to implementation of values. If I were your client asking, we've identified my values. What do I do next? How would you guide me?

Chief Change Officer

#392 Robert MacPhee: From Parking Cars to Coaching Clarity—Lessons from a Chicken Soup Insider — Part Two

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To that CEO, I may have seemed incompetent, but I knew exactly why I had to leave so quickly. It was a major clash of values. I believe in being true and ethical in both words and deeds, while he thrived on a man-made facade of showmanship and hypocrisy. Knowing my values made the decision clear. This experience ties directly to today's guest. Robert Mercier.

Chief Change Officer

#392 Robert MacPhee: From Parking Cars to Coaching Clarity—Lessons from a Chicken Soup Insider — Part Two

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Do values change over time with new experiences and perspectives?

Chief Change Officer

#392 Robert MacPhee: From Parking Cars to Coaching Clarity—Lessons from a Chicken Soup Insider — Part Two

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As you were sharing, I couldn't help but think is not just about the different stages of our lives or the roles we play. For example, I transitioned from corporate life to entrepreneurship, moving from a world of abundant resources to one where I'm spending my own money testing ideas and navigating uncertainties. Big changes like these influence our values.

Chief Change Officer

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Now, one could argue that if I value honesty, it should stay constant regardless of my circumstances. True, but even the interpretation or perception of honesty evolves over time. As I play new roles and build up different experiences, I found that how I uphold honesty adapts For example, with certain people or situations, I might feel the need to stand firm in my values.

Chief Change Officer

#392 Robert MacPhee: From Parking Cars to Coaching Clarity—Lessons from a Chicken Soup Insider — Part Two

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But with others, especially those who don't operate, honestly, I might decide it's not worth engaging or holding them to the same standard. It's not about abandoning my value. but recognizing when and how to apply it. This evolution, I think, speaks to how our brains collect data and adjust over time. Sometimes is a cautious recalibration.

Chief Change Officer

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Other times is our minds engaging in what I call self-justification. helping us rationalize our actions in ways that align with what we want to believe. So when values may shift, the interpretation and application of those values change as we grow and learn.

Chief Change Officer

#79 Jennifer Selby Long on Growing Beyond Office Politics: Breaking Free from Toxic Cultures That Follow You - Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is an old friend of our show, Jennifer Selby Long. Jennifer was with us in season three, episode seven and eight.

Chief Change Officer

#79 Jennifer Selby Long on Growing Beyond Office Politics: Breaking Free from Toxic Cultures That Follow You - Part One

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How some people, when making career moves... leave a toxic boss or a harmful culture or an environment that is so vested in office politics only to find themselves in a similar situation at the new job. It's like running away from one problem only to land in another. that led us into a bordered discussion on toxic cultures and even the role office politics play in these dynamics.

Chief Change Officer

#79 Jennifer Selby Long on Growing Beyond Office Politics: Breaking Free from Toxic Cultures That Follow You - Part One

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Do you think having a hybrid work model might actually help manage office politics? Or does it make things worse? On one hand, with less in-person interaction, people aren't constantly grouped together, which might reduce some of the tension that can build in close quarters. it creates a bit of balance. You're not always in the office, so those dynamics don't dominate your entire day.

Chief Change Officer

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But on the other hand, there's the behind-the-scenes factor. Those who want to curry favor with the boss could still do it privately in ways others might not even notice. is a different kind of politicking that could still cause issues, just less visibly. I imagine researchers are already looking into this shift and its impact on workplace dynamics.

Chief Change Officer

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What's your take on how hybrid or remote work influences office politics? Does it shift the balance? Or do you think human nature finds a way to keep the same patterns alive just in new formats?

Chief Change Officer

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Just now, we explored the root causes of office politics, why some thrive while others struggle, and how leadership behaviors often shape these dynamics. Tomorrow, in our next episode, we'll continue our series on office politics.

Chief Change Officer

#79 Jennifer Selby Long on Growing Beyond Office Politics: Breaking Free from Toxic Cultures That Follow You - Part One

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If you've ever wondered why the smartest or hottest working people aren't always the ones who succeed, or why the best ideas don't always win, or why politics seem unavoidable, tomorrow's episode is for you. Come back and join us. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

Chief Change Officer

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

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We also touched on how some leaders or managers might unknowingly struggle with their personality disorders, which can contribute to these environments. Today, we are honing in on office politics specifically. Let's be real, who hasn't faced them? Whether it's subtle power struggles or outright maneuvering is something everyone has encountered.

Chief Change Officer

#79 Jennifer Selby Long on Growing Beyond Office Politics: Breaking Free from Toxic Cultures That Follow You - Part One

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Yet, when I type office politics into Google, I don't find as much as I expected. Maybe the term isn't as trendy, but that doesn't mean the problem isn't real or common. People might call it power dynamics, workplace dynamics, but the underlying issue is universal. So Jennifer, let's start with a two-part question. In your view, why do office politics exist?

Chief Change Officer

#79 Jennifer Selby Long on Growing Beyond Office Politics: Breaking Free from Toxic Cultures That Follow You - Part One

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What factors contribute to the presence in the modern workplace?

Chief Change Officer

#79 Jennifer Selby Long on Growing Beyond Office Politics: Breaking Free from Toxic Cultures That Follow You - Part One

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In the last 30 years, Jennifer has been helping tech leaders navigate the waves of tech evolution, leading and managing organizational change. But leaders can't successfully drive organizational change without being a master of their own personal transformation. So last time, Jennifer and I looked into the natural process of personal change.

Chief Change Officer

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Just the other week, I sat in a coffee shop. I overheard several groups dissecting what had gone wrong in their respective offices. It made me think maybe I should bring this show to a coffee shop. Imagine all the real, raw discussions that could spark these lunch hours and coffee shop conversations. I call them unscripted, water cooler moments where the true pulse of the office comes alive.

Chief Change Officer

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It's where colleagues vent their frustrations, share unfiltered truths about the team, the boss, and all the office politics in play. Now, about leaders who treat the workplace like a chessboard, where employees are nothing more than pawns, moved or discarded depending on their usefulness. It's not so much about corruption as it is about cold, calculated strategy.

Chief Change Officer

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For these leaders, it's not personal. It's strictly business. They justify their actions in the name of efficiency or the bottom line, if someone quits, they see it as an opportunity to reduce head count, not a problem to solve. They don't lose sleep over being called toxic. What's more, some leaders intentionally create competitive cutthroat environments

Chief Change Officer

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They think pitting people against each other will drive results. But for employees, it often means distrust and endless office politics. That kind of culture impacts morale, collaboration, and long-term success. Jennifer. Have you worked with clients who purposely planned the seats of office politics as part of the management strategy? As part of the management strategy?

Chief Change Officer

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Or have you advised clients who have to navigate such politically charged environments? How do you help someone survive and even thrive in a culture that is shaped so intentionally and sometimes ruthlessly by leadership?

Chief Change Officer

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We also talked about how to manage self-doubt and self-sabotage. Jennifer, welcome back to Chief Change Officer. You are setting a new record for us. For one guest, you are going to have four episodes under your own name. Indeed. Thank you for having me. I so appreciate it, Vin. At the end of our last conversation, we talked about something that really resonates with everybody.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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But in their eyes, she isn't being productive, not even trying to do anything meaningful. It's not about making big money. It's about learning something, adding value, contributing in some way. But she seems to have taken the idea of not needing a traditional job to the extreme, believing that work itself isn't necessary for her generation.

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#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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Now, the reason I bring this up is because your book is titled, Employment is Dead. I understand what you mean by that. I don't misinterpret it. But I can see how some people might. They might take it at face value and think, Oh, we don't have to work anymore. We don't need offices, five-day work weeks, or even jobs at all. I don't think that's the message you're trying to send.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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So my last question to you is this. Do you really believe employment is dead? And more importantly, what is your true interpretation of that phrase? Whether someone watching this is 15, 25, 35, or 45, How do you want them to understand what you mean so the title doesn't get misinterpreted as something superficial?

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

In part one, we explore her incredible journey from shaping policy in Washington, D.C. to securing venture capital through a chance encounter at a Starbucks. She shares how risk-taking, adaptability, and breaking the old rules shaped her success. Then in part two, we tackle the future of employment. Why degrees aren't what they used to be? How AI and Web3 are reshaping jobs?

Chief Change Officer

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Embrace life stage flexibility with purpose. We need to work. We need to contribute, put in the effort, and build our lives and careers. There are so many different ways to do that now. That's the message. In that sense, employment isn't dead. It's just evolving. The traditional model may be fading. but it's being reimagined in new and meaningful ways. Absolutely. Deborah, thank you so much.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. A few days ago, we published a three-part series with George Dream, the co-author of the book, Employment is Dead. But we are not done yet.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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I really appreciate you taking the time for this conversation. And congratulations on the entire journey of putting this book together. If I make it to the U.S., I'll be sure to grab an autographed copy from both of you.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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Of course. I'm not Bloomberg. I don't ask cookie-cutter questions. And that's a wrap on this two-part series with Deborah Perry Pistioni. We've torn apart outdated career playbooks, reimagined what work could be, and tackled how both workers and companies must evolve. The question now is, are you ready for what's next? Because the future of work isn't coming. It's already here.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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If you found this conversation valuable, share it, rate the show, and let's keep pushing these conversations forward. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

And what companies must do before it's too late? And of course, we'll answer the big question. Is employment really dead? Get ready for bold, eye-opening conversation. Let's jump in. I had the privilege of reading through the book before it was published. Now, I'll be honest, I skimmed through a lot of it. Certain chapters really stood out to me, especially the one on credentials.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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Before starting my podcast, especially before COVID, I was deeply involved in the learning, education, technology space. I was speaking at conferences around the world on the future of work, including South by Southwest. So when you covered credentials, education and training, that chapter really caught my attention.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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Now, looking at one of the quotes from that chapter, he wrote, Getting more employers to rethink their degree requirements will take hard work. Employees have grown up in a system where the four-year degree is the proxy, and that's a perception that is risky to do things differently. I completely agree. But the big question is, how do we actually change that mindset?

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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What's your take on making this shift happen?

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If I'm hearing you correctly, and I say this aligns with my own perspective as well, some jobs still operate within a value system where having a degree is essential. Take, for example, a two-year MBA. When I was on a call with Josh, I told him, you and I are both beneficiaries of a formal brand name degree.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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I went to Harvard Business School, I went to Yale School of Management, and I even earned two MBAs myself. Now, I'm 51, turning 52 soon, which means I grew up in the 70s, in a world where the playbook was clear. Study hard, get a degree, work hard in a corporation, climb the ladder. That's success. That was the mainstream and proven belief at the time.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

We are doubling down on this conversation. Today, I've invited his co-author, Deborah Perry-Piccioni. an entrepreneur, Silicon Valley insider, and best-selling author of the book Secrets of Silicon Valley. Before diving into the world of startups, Debra spent 18 years in Washington, D.C., working in the White House, on Capitol Hill, and as a political commentator for MSNBC, Fox News, and CNN.

Chief Change Officer

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And there was nothing inherently wrong with it because it worked in that era. But with the internet and new technologies, the world has changed. We're now exposed to so many more possibilities with different ways to achieve the same goal. if you want to earn a million dollars a year. There are multiple legitimate legal ways to do it.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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In the past, one clear path was joining Goldman Sachs, earning a solid salary plus bonuses. And if it was a good year, you would hit that million dollar mark or even more. And that's still a path that works for some people today. But does that mean going to Goldman Sachs is outdated or not trendy anymore? Not at all. It's still the perfect fit for certain individuals.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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The same goes for Google, any other top-tier company. It all comes down to finding the best fit for your needs, skills, interests, and strengths. I believe if technology can be open source, then career development can be open minded in the same way. In the end, technology is the enabler. It doesn't take how we succeed, but it empowers us to choose our own version of success.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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So far, we've talked a lot about what we as individuals can do, how we navigate our careers and lives in this new era. But for employers, it's a whole different challenge. In your book, you lay out a full transformation map. And when I saw it, I thought, wow, that's a lot a company can do.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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Let's say I'm the CEO of a sizable company and you and George come to me and say, Vince, there's so many opportunities to rethink and transform your organization. My first reaction would be, great, but where do I start? What would you advise me to tackle first? What's the one thing I absolutely must focus on before everything else?

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

But everything changed when she moved to Silicon Valley. Instead of politics, power, and division, she discovered a culture built on collaboration, innovation, and risk-taking. That shift led her to build six companies, write multiple best-selling books, and now co-found the Work3 Institute, helping businesses navigate the future of work. We're featuring Debra in a two-part series.

Chief Change Officer

#254 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part Two

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Great. Now, last question of the day. But before I ask, let me share a quick story. A friend of mine has a niece, 27 years old. She still hasn't graduated from college. She's been stuck in school, hasn't worked a single job, not even part-time, not volunteering, not freelancing, not investing, nothing. Her parents, who are middle class, fully support her.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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While the title is Employment is Dead, if I'm hearing you correctly, this book is really a message to employers, almost a wake-up call With all the new technologies happening, the traditional value chain of employment is being disrupted, whether companies like it or not. And if they don't adapt, they risk losing their best people, whether to solo partnership, competitors, or simply disengagement.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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Is that the core message you're trying to get across? And is this the primary audience you are speaking to?

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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Sure. Now, I notice the book includes a story about how you and George met. Two people from different backgrounds who, according to the book, hadn't even met before. Yet somehow, this collaboration just clicked. From your perspective, what was the spark? What made you think, hey, this is someone I need to work with?

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

In part one, we explore her incredible journey from shaping policy in Washington, D.C. to securing venture capital through a chance encounter at a Starbucks. She shares how risk-taking, adaptability, and breaking the old rules shaped her success. Then in part two, we tackle the future of employment. Why degrees aren't what they used to be? How AI and Web3 are reshaping jobs?

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. A few days ago, we published a three-part series with George Dream, the co-author of the book, Employment is Dead. But we are not done yet.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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What does each of you bring to the table? I imagine there are similarities that made the collaboration work, but also key differences in your backgrounds and experiences that add unique perspectives. Can you share a bit about that, what you each contribute, and how those differences shape the work you're doing together as a partnership?

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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I had the privilege of reading through the book before it was published. Now, I'll be honest, I skimmed through a lot of it. Certain chapters really stood out to me, especially the one on credentials. Before starting my podcast, especially before COVID, I was deeply involved in the learning education technology space.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

1512.944

I was speaking at conferences around the world on the future of work, including South by Southwest. So when you covered credentials, education, and training, that chapter really caught my attention. Now, looking at one of the quotes from that chapter, he wrote, Getting more employers to rethink their degree requirements will take hard work.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

1539.829

Employees have grown up in a system where the four-year degree is the proxy, and that's a perception that is risky to do things differently. I completely agree. But the big question is, how do we actually change that mindset? What's your take on making this shift happen?

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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That's a web for today. We've covered Deborah's incredible journey from DC politics to Silicon Valley startups. and why the old way of working just doesn't cut it anymore. But we're just getting started. In part two, we'll break down the real shift happening in the workforce, why college degrees are losing the grip, and how AI and Web3 are reshaping jobs.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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and what companies must do before it's too late. Plus, we'll tackle the big question. Is employment really dead or just evolving? Don't miss it. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

And what companies must do before it's too late? And of course, we'll answer the big question. Is employment really dead? Get ready for bold, eye-opening conversation. Let's jump in. Good morning, Deborah. Welcome to our show. You are the first interview I conduct in the new year. Thank you so much for your time.

Chief Change Officer

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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You've had such an incredible journey from Washington DC politics to Silicon Valley startups, from entrepreneurship to authoring multiple books, building six companies, and now shaping the future of work. Looking back, do you see a common thread that ties all these transitions together?

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

We are doubling down on this conversation. Today, I've invited his co-author, Deborah Perry-Piccioni. an entrepreneur, Silicon Valley insider, and best-selling author of the book Secrets of Silicon Valley. Before diving into the world of startups, Debra spent 18 years in Washington, D.C., working in the White House, on Capitol Hill, and as a political commentator for MSNBC, Fox News, and CNN.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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It sounds like you're someone who's highly observant, sensitive to your environment, and deeply aware of the trends around you. You mentioned your background in journalism, talking to all kinds of people, reading situations, and understanding patterns. That skill set seems to carry over into how you approach opportunities. You spot gaps, see what's missing, and then take action.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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Whether that's building something from scratch, teaming up with others, or investing in solutions that address those needs. So in a way, your entrepreneurial mindset isn't about business. It's about identifying what needs to be solved and turning that into action, a product, or even a business model. Would you say that's a fair summary?

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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been involved in multiple ventures, which means you've experienced both the highs and the lows, the wins, the setbacks, and everything in between. Looking back, is there a particular failure or challenge that stands out? Something that, despite all your success, really tested you? Maybe at the time, it was frustrating or even painful.

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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But in hindsight, it became a lesson you carry with you, something that shaped how you move forward. You've rebounded, you're stronger, you're energized. But is there a moment that, while tough, still holds deep meaning for you?

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

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You've been engaged in a lot of interesting endeavors. The current project is Work3 Institute, which you co-founded with George. Leading to this book, Employment is Dead. What was the motivation behind starting the institute? What was the driving force that led you to create it? I guess this goes back to the why. What inspired you to take this path?

Chief Change Officer

#253 Deborah Perry Piscione: The End of Traditional Work Begins — Part One

But everything changed when she moved to Silicon Valley. Instead of politics, power, and division, she discovered a culture built on collaboration, innovation, and risk-taking. That shift led her to build six companies, write multiple best-selling books, and now co-found the Work3 Institute, helping businesses navigate the future of work. We're featuring Debra in a two-part series.

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#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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One thing I want to add to that, when you talk about why there are 600 people reporting to you and why organizations have six layers of hierarchy, at the end of the day, all comes down to politics and power, and of course, money. More layers mean more justification for higher salaries at the top. That's just how economic incentives, power, and corporate structures work.

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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But that's a whole other discussion, one that goes beyond technology, yet still shapes the way employment functions today. Even as the world changes, traditional employment structures are still deeply entrenched, especially for my generation. And even for yours, despite being younger, business schools and corporate environments still reinforce many of these same structures.

Chief Change Officer

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Now, employment isn't disappearing, but its function, nature, and diversity are evolving. The depth and breadth of work are shifting, and that's where technology plays a huge role. So as a closing thought, Josh, you've been a strong advocate for integrating and merging technologies into the workplace. What do you see as the consequences for employers who don't adapt?

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For those who aren't paying attention, who aren't taking steps to evolve how they manage, recruit and lead, what risks do they face? I'd love to hear your take as the final message to the world on this show.

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and certain chapters really caught my attention, especially the ones on talent, skills, credentials, and degrees. You and I, you are from Harvard, I'm from Yale, are both beneficiaries of brand name degrees. In the traditional playbook, that gave us a clear advantage in securing opportunities but with emerging technologies, are degrees becoming less and less relevant and useful?

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into the future of work with George Dream. George is a Harvard MBA, a startup founder, and the co-author of the book called Employment is Dead.

Chief Change Officer

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One thing I want to add, I am Gen X. That's the generation between baby boomers and millennials. Older than Gen Z, but still young and energetic. We are the first who transitioned from an analog world to a digital world. I remember learning how to use a calculator, then moving on to Lotus before Microsoft Excel even existed. When I was at Yale for business school, Google was just becoming a thing.

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I'm 51 now, turning 52 in a week. So I've experienced firsthand how technology has evolved, and so have many in my generation. And that brings me to your point about organizations, not just surviving, but thriving. We are in a time where the workforce is more intergenerational than ever. different age groups, different levels of exposure to technology. Some grew up with it.

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Others had to adapt along the way. The question is, how do we make the most of this? How do we create a more inclusive environment that maximizes talent, skills, and purpose? Because in the end, that's what drives business results. That's what fuels performance.

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And for organizations that don't embrace this shift, if they stay rigid, resistant, or unwilling to evolve, they are setting themselves up for negative consequences. So that's my advice. Stay open, stay flexible, and recognize that the workforce is changing because those who don't will be left behind.

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Thank you. And that's a wrap on this series. We've torn down outdated employment models, explored the rise of Web3 and AI, and tackled how businesses must evolve to keep up. The question now is, will companies adapt or get left behind? The future of work isn't coming. It's already here. If you're ready to stay ahead, Now is the time to act. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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If you like what you heard, don't forget subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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In your book, you talk about how employers still claim to degree requirements. It's a tough mindset to break. As someone who has benefited from a prestigious degree, just like I have, what's your take? Do degrees still matter? Or is it time for a new way of thinking, working, and doing?

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Most of them came from ordinary backgrounds, no special connections or privileges. And honestly, I was in the same boat. I went to Yale on a scholarship. Now, when people ask me, is an MBA still relevant? I get it. There's a lot of debate, just like with degrees in general. It's about connections, networks, and the brand name of these two-year MBA or law school programs.

Chief Change Officer

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And yes, these programs accelerate learning, especially the soft skills or life skills like communication, critical thinking, and relationship building. But beyond that, the real value is in the people you meet and the deep connections you build over those two years. That's something you can't just replicate by networking on LinkedIn or signing up for an online course.

Chief Change Officer

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It's a different kind of experience. That said, if your goal is purely to learn, some skills. There are so many ways to do that now, many of them more affordable and accessible. I've personally taken online certificates and courses to upskill, building on a traditional education background. Now, going back to your book and the discussion on degree requirements.

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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Employers, some of them, are starting to look beyond just degrees. They are using other signals to assess skills and knowledge before making hiring decisions. But the degree requirement itself is still deeply ingrained, not just in the U.S., but in many countries. So how do we change that? How do we take real action to jailbreak the degree system? What needs to happen to shift the mindset?

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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Yes, you hear it right. That is a very bold statement. But he's got a story to back it up. Across this three-part series... We'll explore why traditional employment models are failing, how emerging technologies like Web3 and AI are reshaping work, and what companies must do to survive.

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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So far, I've asked you a lot about credentials and education. That's one of my key interests. But in your book, you also introduce this massive Work 3 transformation map. A full framework for how organizations can innovate and leverage emerging technologies. Now, we won't go into all the details today. Maybe we'll save that for future episodes. But I want to ask you this. Let's say I am a CEO.

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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You and Deborah present me with this phone. You come in as consultants advising my organization on transformation. Where would you recommend starting? Obviously, executing the full roadmap, strategy, concepts, implementation could take more than a year or even longer. But what's the first step, the first major pain point to tackle?

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

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I know it depends on the company, but if you had to pick a key entry point from your roadmap, what would be a strong starting place for any organization looking to make a meaningful shift?

Chief Change Officer

#252 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Three

We'll also go behind the scenes of George's phone, how a cold call turned into a major publishing deal, and why the old ways of managing people just don't cut it anymore. Whether you are an employee, an employer, or just curious about where work is headed, this series will challenge the way you think. I spent over an hour diving into your book.

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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So, would it be fair to say that the metaverse, Web3, and all these emerging technologies are essentially bridges, tools that help us redefine the employee experience? Not just in one way, but in ways that actually make sense for our lives, our productivity, our outcome, and our well-being? Would you put it that way?

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into the future of work with George Dream. George is a Harvard MBA, a startup founder, and the co-author of the book called Employment is Dead.

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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You mentioned that you and Deborah, the co-founder of WorkStreet Institute, worked on this book together with you. I know there's quite a story behind how this book came to be. Can you share that with us here?

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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How did you get HBR on board with this book? They publish a lot of business books, many from professors, industry leaders, and big-name executives. Of course, Deborah is a leader in her space, and you have your HBS background, but pitching a book idea is never easy. So how did you make the case? What convinced them that this was a book they had to publish? What did that process look like?

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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How long did the whole book process take? Now you are at the finish line with the launch. But of course, that's really just the beginning of a new chapter. From that initial cold call to getting to this point, how long was the journey? What did that timeline look like?

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

Yes, you hear it right. That is a very bold statement. But he's got a story to back it up. Across this three-part series, We'll explore why traditional employment models are failing, how emerging technologies like Web3 and AI are reshaping work, and what companies must do to survive.

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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That makes sense. About 10 years ago, I actually published two books in Chinese, not in English. That's why I never sent you my books. One was with a commercial publisher, and the other was through a university publisher in China. I finished both within two years, and one for Hong Kong, the other distributed at the national level in China.

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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Long story short, I've always appreciated the depth a book brings. At some point, I love to write one in English. Because a book isn't just a quick e-book or 10-page summary. It holds real thought, deep reflection, and analytical depth. These days, sure, a lot of people use AI tools to generate content.

Chief Change Officer

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Actually, going through the full process like you did, building a platform, engaging with an audience, testing ideas, and then rolling out a fully developed book, that's something I truly admire. For that reason, I spent over an hour diving into your book, And certain chapters really caught my attention, especially the ones on talent, skills, credentials, and degrees.

Chief Change Officer

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You and I, you are from Harvard. I'm from Yale. Above beneficiaries of brand name degrees. In the traditional playbook, that gave us a clear advantage in securing opportunities. but with emerging technologies, are degrees becoming less and less relevant and useful? In your book, you talk about how employers still claim to degree requirements. It's a tough mindset to break.

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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As someone who has benefited from a prestigious degree, just like I have, what's your take? Do degrees still matter? Or is it time for a new way of thinking, working, and doing?

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

We'll also go behind the scenes of George's book, how a cold call turned into a major publishing deal, and why the old ways of managing people just don't cut it anymore. Whether you are an employee, an employer, or just curious about where work is headed, this series will challenge the way you think.

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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What a story, right? From a cocoa to a book, that's making waves. George is proof that big ideas can come from anywhere. But now, let's get tactical. In the next episode, we'll explore the Work3 framework, how companies can actually implement change instead of just talking about it. If you want to know what's next for work, you won't want to miss this. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#251 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

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This is pretty rude, in fact, because there's an art of building relationship, being immersed in a community, but being yourself at the same time. And lastly, when it comes to learning, Very easy to learn anything these days, any skills very quickly, but a lot of those are technical skills or tool skills. You just learn to use a certain tool. Those skills, I must say, they are commodities.

Chief Change Officer

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Anyone can do it these days. Being commodity meaning that it has a very low value. AI can do a lot of those now. So when it comes to learning, learn the skills that you can own it, you can evolve with those. And those skills in the good old days, we call those soft skills.

Chief Change Officer

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But going forward, those will become the premium hard skills, resilience, critical reasoning, analytical skills, and even AI can do a lot of computation faster. But when it comes to you making observation and figure things out with the help of technology, building relationship, business relationship, and life relationship, career relationships, networking, so to speak, which is an abuse term.

Chief Change Officer

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But when it comes to managing your life, your career, changes, direction, the way forward, while the risk factors are identifiable, a lot of them are not quantifiable. That creates a lot of anxiety, fear, unknown. Hence, some people just they put don't change at all.

Chief Change Officer

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It's all about the human skills. So focus on the human skills that you can embrace, but also own it to yourself. That would become your own signature, your own brand. In the last part of our interview, I asked Katie about her book recommendation, about her learning habits and her learning process. She said she got three pillars of learning. What are those three pillars? You may wonder.

Chief Change Officer

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Well, let's find out.

Chief Change Officer

#199 From Wall Street to Wonder: Katie Curry’s Playbook for Risk, Resilience & Reinvention — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Last time, I was talking to an old friend from Yale, Katrina Curry, or as many know her as Katie.

Chief Change Officer

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In a social media era, we tend to talk so much. It's always one-way communication. We type, we share, we post. We never answer, never respond. Then the whole communication cycle becomes worse and worse. It's about listening that we lack and we miss. Without listening, there won't be communication.

Chief Change Officer

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Without communication, there won't be relationship building, let alone choosing, building, joining, and enjoying the beauty of being in a community. Going back to one of your points about reflection, I can't agree with you more. That's the ability to consolidate. I call this a solitude moment. I know we talk a lot about epidemic of loneliness.

Chief Change Officer

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Now, loneliness, when this is overwhelming, is hurtful. But a good degree of being alone solitude moment is healthy i do the same for myself a lot of times in fact i try not to speak i try not to contact or get contacted by a lot of people i need the time to reflect on what's going on now how can i do it better to learn about myself and to move forward stronger and better

Chief Change Officer

#199 From Wall Street to Wonder: Katie Curry’s Playbook for Risk, Resilience & Reinvention — Part Two

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Well, yeah, we cover so much, yet we still have other things. I definitely love to ask you more.

Chief Change Officer

#199 From Wall Street to Wonder: Katie Curry’s Playbook for Risk, Resilience & Reinvention — Part Two

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I will. I will. I will certainly say. Once we finish one season, for the next season, I would like to ask you and please come over. In fact, I even already have speakers say, yes, I will come every season. So at least I signed them up for four times already for the whole year.

Chief Change Officer

#199 From Wall Street to Wonder: Katie Curry’s Playbook for Risk, Resilience & Reinvention — Part Two

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In the future, to have part two, part three, part four about your experience with business process transformation, the so-called less glamorous, but also very essential part of innovation. Parenting is another angle that we can cover.

Chief Change Officer

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard. Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#199 From Wall Street to Wonder: Katie Curry’s Playbook for Risk, Resilience & Reinvention — Part Two

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In this episode, we are switching gear, moving from her own career life and changes onto the changes we are going to see in the work market, in particular about Gen Z. According to World Economic Forum, by year 2025, about a quarter of our workforce will be Gen Z. So this is a force that we will reckon with. Katie is a mother of two. She got two Gen Z children.

Chief Change Officer

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At work, she's managing a workforce, spending across different generations. So what's her take on working with leading and motivating the younger generations at work? She's also going to share a couple of career tips for the younger generation to thrive in this era of change. And later, we'll take a sneak peek into Katie's personal learning habits and her book recommendation. So stick around.

Chief Change Officer

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Let's get started. Katie, you and I are Gen X, but this era is a multi-generational workforce era. And you're a mother of two. In raising two young children, what have you learned from this personal experience and applied to working with and managing a younger workforce?

Chief Change Officer

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Over the years, I've helped Generation X, Y, Z with their different career and life issues. Sometimes, like you said, they're all humans, regardless of age and generations. Each generation, to be honest, has their own challenges and issues. I wouldn't say Gen X, like us, we don't value or appreciate meritocracy versus Gen Z values more or vice versa.

Chief Change Officer

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Now, since you have a lot of experience at home and at work, working with and growing up with Gen Z, give them a couple of advice.

Chief Change Officer

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career-wise, or the flip side of this question, in fact, would be in light of the rise of this generation in the workforce, where the challenges you see hence your advice to them, how can they make the best out of the whole situation and make the impact they want for people around them, for the world, and for themselves?

Chief Change Officer

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She did, and many more things she has achieved since she made that move from Bulgaria to United States. Like me and a lot of people with strong finance background, we always talk about risk, the upside risk, downside risk, the risk tolerance, the risk appetite. How can we maximize return, minimize risks?

Chief Change Officer

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First of all, superpower. Keep learning. Second of all, humility. Choose the right one for you. Choose to be associated with people you want to be associated with. Third, the ability to pivot, the ability to handle change. This podcast is called Chief Change Officer. Of course, I believe in change. I myself, as I said, right now, going through the 18th change in my career and life.

Chief Change Officer

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I believe that everyone, regardless of your age, your gender, your culture, your background, your generation, wherever you are, whatever you do, you have the ability to change and change for good. For yourself, a new job, new career, new direction. For your communities, for the people around you, and for the world, whatever you're trying to do for the world. So yes, change. The ability to change.

Chief Change Officer

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One thing I like to add to this point is some people mistake change as private. And I found some people take it so lightly. It becomes a careless act of change as opposed to be a thoughtful strategy of making things better for you and for the people you care to impact positively. So the word privet and change, I like to draw the attention of the audience. Privet is easy.

Chief Change Officer

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Today you want to do this, next day you want to do that. Technology allows us to do it in a very, very cost-effective manner in whatever we want to pursue. But if you care enough about your life and career direction or the impact you care to make, You need to be thoughtful about why you do this today and change tomorrow. Why can't you stick around longer?

Chief Change Officer

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Build up the credential, the track record, the relationship or the network that a lot of people like to say, or the community before you quite quit. Change takes commitment. Change is more strategic. That brings us to the second point. Katie mentioned about community, for you to be part of a community, when it comes to building relationship, once again, it takes commitment.

Chief Change Officer

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Today's technology, we can be connected with anyone, everyone. Send an ad request, people say yes within seconds, but this is not a community, let alone having any kind of friendship or relationship. I care myself so much about community or being associated with people I wanted to be associated with or want to learn from.

Chief Change Officer

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Hence, more than 20 years ago, I chose to give up two years of my life and went for an MBA degree because I want to be associated with all the smart people, all the energetic people. One of them is Katie. After 20-some years, when I reached out to her for this interview invitation, she said yes right away. That is not only the power of community on day one.

Chief Change Officer

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That's the power of community with exponential power to 20 years later. That's the longevity of a community, a relationship, which I think we lack in this era, thanks to social media. So the ability to keep up with your community, to keep up with the relationship, or to make friends, that's not something a social media or any kind of technology can replace and can teach you.

Chief Change Officer

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Social media is antisocial. So one has to learn how to make friends, how to pick friends, pick the right community that you can evolve within it, that you can keep up with, and they can keep up with you. If the community isn't right for you, how you move on, you don't have to unblock or block someone.

Chief Change Officer

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In our culture, the way we've been taught, we often think that being a top-notch leader is all about having a flashy title, a fat wallet, and a ton of power. But we're in the era of change. Things are changing around us so rapidly. I believe the measure of success and what it means to be excellent as a leader has evolved. Now, excellence is all about resilience.

Chief Change Officer

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Lots of adventures, lots of failure, lots of success, and lots of resilience. Here comes my good old friend, Katie.

Chief Change Officer

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It's not just about how big your title, how rich you are, and how much power you hold today. It's about how well you bounce back from changes and how long the game you play into tomorrow. Katie, with that in mind, how do you view your leadership style? And perhaps what kind of leader do you see yourself as?

Chief Change Officer

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So Katie, you and I are Gen X, but you have another identity. You are a mother of two. They're both Gen Z. They're still in school, but at some point they will enter the workforce. In the office, you manage a wide range of generations. So as a mother and leader, leading younger generations. Can you share with us about your take on working with them?

Chief Change Officer

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#198 From Wall Street to Wonder: Katie Curry’s Playbook for Risk, Resilience & Reinvention — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In today's episode, I'll be chatting with a dear friend from my Yale days, Katrina Curry, or as many know her as Katie.

Chief Change Officer

#198 From Wall Street to Wonder: Katie Curry’s Playbook for Risk, Resilience & Reinvention — Part One

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ah, I'd like to learn more about your learning habit these days. We'll come back to you on this. But go back to your transformation, the changes you've gone through. So in your life so far, you've moved from Bulgaria to United States, from New York City to New Haven, Connecticut, then back to New York from banking into credit rating agency, and now into insurance in a growing venture.

Chief Change Officer

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So throughout all of these different stages and forms of transformations, what's your approach to managing changes over time?

Chief Change Officer

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Katie and I share a background in risk assessment and measurement, well-trained and developed through years of working with banks, fund houses, and insurance companies. But when it comes to her career, Katie has taken her understanding of risk to a new level. stepping out of her comfort zone with a deliberate approach.

Chief Change Officer

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Mental toughness. The border term is resilience. Now, since you bring up the term mental toughness, so let me move on to the next question about the mental side of things. You and I come from a very strong business education background. And in business education program, we are trained to be highly analytical, strongly logical.

Chief Change Officer

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especially for business, but even when it comes to managing our life and career, we have been very thoughtful, but also very analytical, a lot of back and forth analysis, pros and cons. But we have our psychology, we're after a human and business education is light on that kind of training. So when it comes to your reinvention,

Chief Change Officer

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how you balance the logic side of you as well as the psychology side of you.

Chief Change Officer

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Like me, Katie has her share of navigating and overcoming multiple rounds of reinventions through diverse cultures. In her case, from small town to Big Apple, from Bulgaria to United States. from communism to Wall Street, from New York City to Yale School of Management, from established credit rating agency to a tech innovation company in the insurance industry.

Chief Change Officer

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Speaking of resilience, of change, of reinvention, a lot of people are risk-averse. If I keep using the risk concept, you know, they have fear of failure. They're afraid that they will fail. That's also another fear, fear of judgment. They don't like to be judged. They don't like to be questioned. What's your personal definition of failure and success after so many years on the Wall Street?

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Yeah, I think this tolerance for failure is very important. It's not something non-athletes are typically trained for. Speaking of non-athletes, this might be a good point for us to step back and look at the bigger picture.

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Earlier, you mentioned starting your business around the COVID period, when everyone was stuck at home and started developing different perspectives on their careers and lives. Now, we are back to normal, but the world has changed. and still changing with technology and other moving factors. A lot of uncertainties with layoffs, corporate downsizing, inflation, etc.

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In this kind of environment, you probably get a lot of inquiries from regular people about whether franchising could be the next chapter of their lives. So I have two related questions for you. First, for non-athletes listening who may not have the athletic background, what advice would you give them for making this decision? What factors should they consider?

Chief Change Officer

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Second, given the uncertainties in the economy and other factors, When people want to start a new chapter in their lives, they feel the urge, the pressure to do so quickly, which comes with risks. James, you are a nice, incredible person, but that could be others in your business who are not as trustworthy as you.

Chief Change Officer

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So once these regular people decide to move into this new world of franchising, how can they be smarter about figuring out who to work with and what kind of business to get into?

Chief Change Officer

#197 James Hilovsky: Why Athletes Are Built for Business (And How Franchising is Their Secret Weapon) – Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today at our studio, We welcome James Hilofsky from Riverside in Southern California.

Chief Change Officer

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So I have great respect for franchising as a business model that can positively transform lives. Let's discover how James has used franchising for the greater good for both athletes and everyday people.

Chief Change Officer

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So, a lot of due diligence is needed, really hands-on due diligence, before jumping into investing a chunk of money. It's not just the financial investment, also the time and hope you're putting into potentially creating something that could be generationally relevant for your children and yourself in the future. Whether you are in your pre-retirement or retirement life, so much sticks on hand.

Chief Change Officer

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To wrap up our interview, I was wondering, James, when you look back at helping both athletes and non-athletes, what's the most fulfilling impact you found yourself making in this business? Of course, building a successful business is important. But I'm curious about the impact you're most proud of in these four years.

Chief Change Officer

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Great. Thank you so much, James. Thanks for your time and all the insights. Like any other major change in life, career changes, including franchising, can be incredibly fulfilling. It is a rewarding journey, not just for you as the facilitator, but for both sides of the business equation. I hope that every listen to this show feels inspired.

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If you're considering franchising, talk to James or other credible experts and do thorough due diligence about the business and about yourself. is a big decision, but it can be a worthwhile one.

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

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When you look back at these examples where you acted as the advisor and matchmaker, helping them figure out their plans and goals, what are the three qualities that stand out in these successful individuals? These qualities could be skill, mindsets, psychological traits, or something related to the sports they play.

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Can you name some key qualities that are common and contribute to success in franchising for these athletes?

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Sure. Leadership quality, of course, being a strong team player and having a risk-taking mindset. In fact, leadership has many elements, but basically it's about being a team player, a risk taker, and being coachable. In sports, they always have coaches. When you talk about coaching, it reminds me of the scenario in venture and entrepreneurship, especially in tech ventures.

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In the past, when I talked to investors, or venture capitalists. I asked them what kind of entrepreneurs or founders you'd like to invest in or admire. One quality they mentioned was being coachable. They explained that some founders might be very smart and passionate, but if they are not receptive to coaching, is a problem.

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These founders may resist advice, fail to learn from mistakes, and ignore experienced voices. This is what investors mean by being coachable. I can totally relate to that when you mentioned the coachability of athletes.

Chief Change Officer

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James runs a unique franchise consulting business, primarily serving retired athletes from the NBA and NFL who are starting new chapters in their lives as franchisees. He also helps regular people with their franchise businesses. James believes that using his expertise in franchising to change lives and livelihoods of families and future generations is a dream come true endeavor.

Chief Change Officer

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Would you say ego could be a risk for athletes? What other qualities should athletes watch out for? Looking at the flip side, what traits could counteract success in franchising and leadership?

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Yeah, I can tell from your explanation that when athletes transition into the business world, whether as franchisees or stand-alone entrepreneurs, ego can be a risk. But Beyond Ego is also about figuring out what kind of risks they want to take and what costs they are willing to incur. By costs, I don't just mean money, but also learning curves and other challenges.

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To me, franchising is a more controllable type of business venture because, like you said, the system is established, risks are calculatable, and there is a track record. In contrast, starting a new business from scratch is riskier. If you are a creative type of athlete, you might want to start something on your own from the ground up. In that case, are you ready to take that kind of risk?

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Are you ready to step up and make the best use of your leadership skills? Different personalities and risk tolerance levels come into play during this transition. Let me play devil's advocate for a moment. While you argue that the transition from sportsmanship to franchise leadership has many similarities and seems like a perfect fit, there are hidden areas to consider.

Chief Change Officer

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In sports world, everything is clear cut and measurable. For example, in swimming, one of my favorite sports. You know who wins the gold medal because it's the person who finishes the fastest. The timing technology is sophisticated and precise, leaving no ambiguity.

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In the business world, however, while we have financial goals and key performance indicators, there are many hidden risks and ambiguities, especially when dealing with people, partners, and employees. Athletes are trained in controlled environments. But when they move into less controlled business environments, even within franchising, they face uncertainties.

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I haven't been a franchisee or franchisor myself, but I do have experience with the franchise business. Many years ago, when my parents immigrated to Canada with zero local experience and connections, they ventured into franchising to make a living. Despite the hardships, using franchising as a means to fulfill the dream of becoming immersed and settled in the community was life changing.

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How do you help athletes make this transition? Does it involve mindset shifts, education, or more coaching? What do you think?

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#117 From Whiskey to Wi-Fi: Tabist CEO Ryota Tanozaki's Career of Bold Transitions

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So what you're suggesting is managing both the highs and the lows, the setbacks and successes really comes down to perseverance, right? I remember when you moved from Facebook or Meta to Tapest. which was called OYO, originally from India, a travel tech company. That was a fairly tough period of time. It was no joke.

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And as a traveler, I can't get enough of the Japanese hospitality. In this episode, I'm talking with Ryota Tanosaki, the president and CEO of Tapest, who is innovating the Japanese hospitality industry. Ryota and I were MBA classmates at Chicago Booth. Since graduation, he's faced some fascinating yet unexpected career transitions.

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Tell me, how did you tap into your perseverance to navigate the company through the early days of COVID, then the Tokyo Olympics postponement, and then now back to what we might call normal?

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You used the word perseverance, and often leaders like to use another buzzword, resilience. I totally get the concept as I've had to practice resilience myself over many years. But as a company leader, how do you impart this mindset, this resilience to your team? I'm not talking about operations or technology resilience. I'm talking about people, the human beings around you.

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You might be incredibly resilient yourself, but if your team doesn't share that sense of resilience, It won't be reflected in the team, in the culture as a whole. Then the word resilience would just be a buzzword. So what's your approach to fostering resilience when it comes to building and managing your team?

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For those unfamiliar, Tapest was originally part of a joy venture with SoftBank in 2019 with the headquarters in India. It was rebranded and localized as Tapest around 2022. With Ryota stepping up as the CEO, Tabby means truffle in Japanese. As you can imagine, as successful as his appointment sounded, this appointment came during a very challenging time.

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So that's about the intrinsic motivation, the sense of mission, the sense of action. What else?

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What you call astrology, I would say is a pathway. You or the investors have the vision executed, but the people around you, they follow you. So in order to follow you, yes, they have a reason, that intrinsic motivation you've mentioned, but then you tell them, well, that's how we're going to do it. You call the astrology, you call the pathway, then you engage stakeholders.

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The employees, of course, one of them, investors, partners, customers, is a multi-stakeholder development and management process. What's your third thing?

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Yes, that is leadership by example. I would also like to see this as you getting closer to your customer. You really want to learn about the situation, the problems. And then you show to your staff how you win accounts, how you solve problems. If they're smart enough, they observe how you do it. And then they follow you. They take some of your best insights, the best lessons, and then execute.

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It's also a kind of quality management so that you can train up your staff to deliver. Let's extend on this topic of leadership by example. Leader, one kind of leader, which I admire, is called servant leader. You lead by serving. Another kind is you lead by coaching.

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#117 From Whiskey to Wi-Fi: Tabist CEO Ryota Tanozaki's Career of Bold Transitions

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So some of the best leaders I've worked for in my career life, they coach me on the side, make me become a better person, better leader. Now, I know that outside of office work, You teach marketing, social media strategy at one of the business schools in Japan. Share with me about your teaching experience as a faculty member.

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postponement of the Tokyo Olympics game and the COVID situation, both of which rocked the truffle industry. Over the next 20 minutes, Ryota will share not only his own career transformation, also how tapest has evolved during an incredibly challenging period for truffle. I'll attach the press release about the company's background in the show notes for those interested.

Chief Change Officer

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Leaders are like coaches, right? They're always helping others to learn and grow. Speaking of which, are there any books or resources that really changed the game for you? Maybe something you recommend to our listeners to help inspire them just as much as it did for you?

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I haven't actually read the book High Growth Handbook myself. But what you just said reminds me of something I do fairly often. I'm not big on texting or using social media because I prefer writing things down by hand. There's something about the process of writing. It involves a lot of thinking, reflecting, and analyzing.

Chief Change Officer

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By the time I've written something out, I've already worked through a lot of the information in my head. And I also find that Even if I haven't figured out the problem, this process of writing, as I'm doing it, the answer comes through more naturally.

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Speaking of which, remember in our Leadership Capital class taught by Linda Ginzel, the social psychologist at Chicago Booth, she talked about how our brains can trick us into rationalizing or justifying our thoughts too quickly. She said, suggested that to think clearly, we should write things down, not just to type it out, actually write it down by hand in its rawest form.

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That way you can come back to it later, maybe a day or even a week later and see exactly what you were thinking at that time. It really helps you work through your ideas and find solutions. Clayton Christensen. Yes, he's been my favorite author for the longest time. Sadly, he passed away around the start of COVID. That book you mentioned, The Innovator's Dilemma, is absolutely incredible.

Chief Change Officer

#117 From Whiskey to Wi-Fi: Tabist CEO Ryota Tanozaki's Career of Bold Transitions

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Without further ado, let's welcome Ryota Tanasaki.

Chief Change Officer

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But there's another one of his that I love, which is how will you measure your life? I highly recommend it to all my listeners, no matter what role you're in or what job you're doing. Anyways, thank you so much for your time today, Rialta. I'm really looking forward to our next conversation. I hope. It won't be over a virtual setup next time.

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Instead, let's aim to be sitting next to each other, enjoying some beer and good food in Tokyo. Thanks again.

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

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When I was starting out, a lot of my friends heading off to business school with big dreams of becoming CEO one day. The plan always seemed pretty straightforward. Get an MBA first, then join one of the biggest consulting firm, McKinsey, BZG, to tackle a bunch of business challenges across different industries.

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Then maybe at some point they launch their own business or start climbing corporate ladder somewhere big, become the CEO, CFO, CEO somewhere. For them, MBA first, consulting next. But you kind of flipped the script a bit. You spent five years in one of the biggest corporations in Japan in a functional role in sales and marketing.

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then went into management consulting and stayed there for over a decade. Later, pursued MBA to get, I would say, some kind of extra edge. Now, before we jump into your experiences at Tapest, I'm really curious about your consulting days. Could you tell us about one of those projects? Maybe one that stands out as particularly memorable? Or that gave you some deep insights?

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My first trip overseas with my family took us to Osaka, Nagoya, and Tokyo when I was just 9 years old. Later, during my first year at Yale MBA, I joined the first-ever study trip to Japan, where 15 of us explored Japan's business culture, visiting companies like Shiseido, Toyota, NTT DoCoMo, and the Japanese government, including the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry.

Chief Change Officer

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I spent two years with you at Chicago Booth as a classmate, yet I've never asked you the next question. I'm going to ask you now, and you give me your honest answer. What actually triggered you to get an MBA at Chicago Booth at that point in time?

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Ryota, as you were sharing your story, I did a quick Google search. Actually, three searches in about 10 seconds. I typed in change career at 30. I got about 2 billion results. Then I searched change career at 40. I got over 1 billion results. Finally, I entered change career at 50. I found over 1.5 billion results. So altogether, roughly 4.5 billion results in 10 seconds about change career.

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I haven't done any other keyword searches. I'm sure if I go deeper, I'll find more interesting insights. So what does this search mean? It shows that at certain stages of our lives, at certain age, we are either compelled or forced to change careers, or we have a strong desire for a change in today's job market.

Chief Change Officer

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I would argue that we should embrace this change and be prepared to initiate the change on our own terms. In your case, you felt insecure. Some might call this a midlife crisis. I prefer to see it as a positive sense of crisis. or a constructive insecurity. Why is it positive? Because feeling insecure drives you to take action. It pushes you to improve your security. It increases your chances.

Chief Change Officer

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You fight for better job prospects. You move out of your country. You move out of your comfort zone. You went for an MBA degree. You network with people from different industries and countries. This expands not only your horizons, but also your opportunities, turning your sense of insecurity into a positive force in your life. Would you agree with my assessment?

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I even wrote a paper about the Japanese economy and banking industry after the trip. Between 2017 and 2019, I've been involved in ACTEC Japan, an international conference on the future of education technology, where I've been featured as a speaker for three years. As a business professional, I'm always amazed by Japan's culture of craftsmanship and its blend of tradition with modernization.

Chief Change Officer

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You talk a lot about business theology that has been a major theme in your career life. Would you say you are equally strategic about every career move you've made so far?

Chief Change Officer

#117 From Whiskey to Wi-Fi: Tabist CEO Ryota Tanozaki's Career of Bold Transitions

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. We fly all the way from US to Tokyo, Japan. I've always felt a special connection to Japan.

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How do you handle both setbacks and successes? People looking at your career might say, wow, you're incredibly successful. But we all know that behind every success, there are tons of challenges you've overcome. In fact, a lot, a lot of challenges. A lot, a lot of setbacks to support one instance of success. What is your philosophy for managing both the ups and the downs?

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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In fact, because there's an art of building relationship, being immersed in a community, but being yourself at the same time. And lastly, when it comes to learning. Very easy to learn anything these days, any skills very quickly. But a lot of those are technical skills or tool skills. You just learn to use a certain tool. Those skills, I must say, they're commodities. Anyone can do it these days.

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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Being commodity meaning that it has a very low value. AI can do a lot of those now. So when it comes to learning, learn the skills that you can own it, you can evolve with those. And those skills in the good old days, we call those soft skills.

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But when it comes to managing your life, your career, changes, direction, the way forward, while the risk factors are identifiable, a lot of them are not quantifiable. That creates a lot of anxiety, fear, unknown. Hence, some people just stay put, don't change at all.

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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But going forward, those will become the premium hard skills, resilience, critical reasoning, analytical skills, and even AI can do a lot of computation faster. But when it comes to you making observation and figure things out with the help of technology, building relationship, business relationship, and life relationship, career relationships, networking, so to speak, which is an abuse term.

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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It's all about the human skills. So focus on the human skills that you can embrace, but also own it to yourself. That would become your own signature, your own brand. In the last part of our interview, I asked Katie about her book recommendation, about her learning habits and her learning process. She said she got three pillars of learning. What are those three pillars? You may wonder.

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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Well, let's find out.

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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In a social media era, we tend to talk so much. It's always one-way communication. We type, we share, we post. We never answer, never respond. then the whole communication cycle becomes worse and worse. It's about listening that we lack and we miss. Without listening, there won't be communication.

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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Without communication, there won't be relationship building, let alone choosing, building, joining, and enjoying the beauty of being in a community. Going back to one of your points about reflection, I can't agree with you more. That's the ability to consolidate. I call this a solitude moment. I know we talk a lot about epidemic of loneliness.

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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Now, loneliness, when this is overwhelming, is hurtful, but a good degree of being alone. solitude moment is healthy i do the same for myself a lot of times in fact i try not to speak i try not to contact or get contacted by a lot of people i need the time to reflect on what's going on now how can i do it better to learn about myself and to move forward stronger and better

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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Well, yeah, we cover so much, yet we still have other things. I definitely love to ask you more. Invite me on another podcast. I will. I will. I was trying to say... Once we finish one season, for the next season, I would like to ask you and please come on board. In fact, I even already have speakers say, yes, I will come every season.

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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So at least I signed them up for four times already for the whole year. In the future, to have part two, part three, part four about your experience with business process transformation, the so-called less glamorous, but also very essential part of innovation. Parenting is another angle that we can cover.

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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In this episode, we are switching gears, moving from her own career life and changes onto the changes we are going to see in the work market, in particular about Gen Z. According to World Economic Forum, by year 2025, about a quarter of our workforce will be Gen Z. So this is a force that we will reckon with. Katie is a mother of two. She got two Gen Z children.

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At work, she's managing a workforce, spending across different generations. So what's her take on working with leading and motivating the younger generations at work? She's also going to share a couple of career tips for the younger generation to thrive in this era of change. And later, we'll take a sneak peek into Katie's personal learning habits and her book recommendation.

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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So stick around, let's get started. Katie, you and I are Gen X. Of this era, is a multi-generational workforce era and you're a mother of two in raising two young children what have you learned from this personal experience and applied to working with and managing a younger workforce that's a good question vince we do know that

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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Over the years, I've helped Generation X, Y, Z with their different career and life issues. Sometimes, like you said, they're all humans, regardless of age or generation. Each generation, to be honest, has their own challenges and issues. I wouldn't say Gen X, like us, we don't value or appreciate meritocracy versus Gen Z values more or vice versa.

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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Now, since you have a lot of experience at home and at work working with and growing up with Gen Z, give them a couple of advice

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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career-wide or the flip side of this question in fact would be in light of the rise of this generation in the workforce where the challenges you see hence your advice to them how can they make the best out of the whole situation and make the impact they want for people around them for the world and for themselves

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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She did, and many more things she has achieved since she made that move from Bulgaria to United States. Like me and a lot of people with strong finance background, we always talk about risk, the upside risk, downside risk, the risk tolerance, the risk appetite. How can we maximize return, minimize risks?

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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First of all, superpower. Keep learning. Second of all, humility. Choose the right one for you. Choose to be associated with people you want to be associated with. Third, the ability to pivot, the ability to handle change. This podcast is called Chief Change Officer. Of course, I believe in change. I myself, as I said, right now, going through the 18th change in my career and life.

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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I believe that everyone, regardless of your age, your gender, your culture, your background, your generation, wherever you are, whatever you do, you have the ability to change and change for good for yourself, a new job, new career, new direction for your communities, for the people around you and for the world, whatever you're trying to do for the world. So yes, change. The ability to change.

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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One thing I'd like to add to this point is some people mistake change as private. And I found some people take it so lightly. It becomes a careless act of change as opposed to be a thoughtful strategy of making things better for you and for the people you care to impact positively. So the word pivot and change, I like to draw the attention of the audience. Pivot is easy.

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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Today you want to do this, next day you want to do that. Technology allows us to do it in a very, very cost-effective manner in whatever we want to pursue. But if you care enough about your life and career direction or the impact you care to make, You need to be thoughtful about why you do this today and change tomorrow. Why can't you stick around longer?

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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Build up the credential, the track record, the relationship or the network that a lot of people like to say, or the community before you quite quit. Change takes commitment. Change is more strategic. That brings us to the second point. Katie mentioned about community, for you to be part of a community, when it comes to building relationship, once again, it takes commitment.

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Last time, I was talking to an old friend from Yale, a Katrina Curry, or as many know her as Katie.

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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Today's technology, we can be connected with anyone, everyone. Send an ad request, people say yes within seconds, but this is not a community, let alone having any kind of friendship or relationship. I care myself so much about community or being associated with people I wanted to be associated with or want to learn from.

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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Hence, more than 20 years ago, I chose to give up two years of my life and went for an MBA degree because I want to be associated with all the smart people, all the energetic people. One of them is Katie. After 20-some years, when I reached out to her for this interview invitation, she said yes right away. That is not only the power of community on day one.

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#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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That's the power of community with exponential power to 20 years later. That's the longevity of a community, a relationship, which I think we lack in this era, thanks to social media. So the ability to keep up with your community, to keep up with the relationship or to make friends, that's not something a social media or any kind of technology can replace and can teach you.

Chief Change Officer

#116 Katie Curry: Advice for Gen Z in a World of Change

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Social media is antisocial. So one has to learn how to make friends, how to pick friends, pick the right community that you can evolve within it, that you can keep up with and they can keep up with you. If the community isn't right for you, how you move on, you don't have to unblock or block someone. This is pretty rude.

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

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These days, when we talk about work culture, whether on social media or in actual conversations about the job market, one term that keeps coming up is toxic culture. Personally, I think office politics is one source of toxicity, yet it's almost inevitable when you have people working together. But beyond that, there are plenty of other factors that can contribute to a negative work environment.

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

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We also unpack some key nuggets of wisdom. including five simple things anyone can do to succeed at work. In this episode, Erica will open up about her life and career experiences, her upbringing, her parents, her leadership approach, and even her thoughts on toxic work cultures. And here's something you won't hear in other interviews.

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

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From your experience, What's your take on toxic culture? What experiences have you had in dealing with negativities in the office environment?

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In the last episode, we started our two-part series featuring Erica Ayers Borden, the current CEO of Food52, a leading innovator in the food, cooking, and home space.

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

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with four or five generations currently in the workforce, each having different experiences and perspectives. I imagine even the same situation can be seen through very different lenses. I know you have two teenagers in your family. and if they come to you for advice about their careers, not now, but maybe in a few years, they're considering what to study in college.

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

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What kind of advice would you give them? Not as a successful CEO or social media figure, but as a parent, how would you guide them about their future, considering what you see happening in today's workplace?

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

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What career advice would Erica give her own two middle school children? Given the fact that we are in such rapidly changing workplace. Let's dive right in.

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

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Yes, for sure. Kids these days have access to so much so easily. I didn't even get on a plane until I was 11. And now you see kids flying business class at such a young age. traveling the world with their parents, getting sent to boarding schools, things we couldn't imagine back then. But anyway, that's probably a topic for another episode on parenting.

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

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So for my last question, looking ahead, what's your next challenge? Maybe it's not just the next one. Perhaps you already have a few things in mind, or maybe it's about a single life mission that you've been pursuing all along with each project being another step towards that goal. Can you share with us your business goals, life goals, or any future projects you're planning to embark on?

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

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Maybe another book on parenting, for example.

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

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Thank you, Erica. I really enjoyed our conversation. You are a busy executive. And as I said at the beginning of our part one together, that's the last episode, I feel like I hit the jackpot locking you down for an hour for this interview. Your nuggets of wisdom, including those 90-second pieces of advice on your YouTube channel are truly valuable. I love your energy.

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

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I found that in my life and in the lives of many successful people I know, their career decisions, how they present themselves, and what they care about often link back to the past, whether it's their family upbringing, early experiences, or even history of their parents or grandparents. These impact who they are today. Could you share a bit more about your younger years?

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

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Maybe something from your family life or childhood that nurtured your business instincts despite not going to business school? Was this something from your past that helped shape the person you are today? motivated, ambitious, successful, yet always true to yourself?

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

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It sounds like you grew up to be pretty independent, solving problems on your own. Recently, I saw a post on social media talking about Generation X. They call it the figure-it-out generation. They said we had to learn how to solve things on our own because our parents were too busy to hover over us. I'm Gen X too, and I can definitely relate to that. The story reminds me of that experience.

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

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I also grew up in a disciplined environment. And my parents actually blocked me from watching TV. Not just MTV, but all TV. The funny thing is, I am a visual learner. So I realized later that I learn best when I'm stimulated by visual images. Yeah, same. Okay. Now, you've become CEO of two companies. Let's talk about your adulthood. In particular, about building career.

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

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From your perspective, are titles at work really that important?

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

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Before her time at Food52, Erica was the first ever CEO of Barstool Sports, and her career spans across media, marketing, and tech, with roles at companies like Fidelity Investments, Microsoft, AOL, and Yahoo. She is also the author of a new book called No One Cares About Your Career. In the last episode, we dive into the book, why she wrote it, why now, and why this title.

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

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Yeah, I must admit, I used to be quite conscious about titles, especially in the financial services industry where titles often aligned with salary. If you don't have a MD title, for example, the salary range can be significantly lower. So in the first few years of my post-MBA career, titles become a way to measure growth and progression. They were not an obsession, but they definitely mattered.

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

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For a lot of people, titles are still tied to career advancement. On the flip side, in the tech and startup world, titles like CEO have become much more democratized. But like you said, it's not really about the title. It's about the impact you make. With great titles comes great responsibility. That leads me to my next question. As a leader, Beyond titles, how do you define success?

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

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And how do you define failure? In your book, you mentioned that failure is actually a good thing. I'd love to hear your perspective on failure versus success.

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

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So would you say the kind of culture you're building leans more towards a growth mindset? You've mentioned that you prefer employees to take risks, try things out. And even if it doesn't work out, you value the effort and the approach. Is that how you foster a culture of continuous improvement, where the process gets refined over time and eventually leads to better results?

Chief Change Officer

#314 Erika Ayers-Baden: Grit, Goals, and the Generational Advantage

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A related question would be, how would you define your leadership style and approach?

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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Maybe one day you could go down a similar path, turning no one cares about your career into something more, perhaps a teaching platform or a series of courses to help people navigate the modern workplace. What do you think about taking that approach?

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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In fact, she's gathered so many lessons along the way that she decided to write her first book titled, No One Cares About Your Career. When I saw that title, I knew I had to develop a two-part series featuring Erica. Why does this title hit so hard? Because it's the truth. I've learned it the hard way myself, through the twists and turns of my own career.

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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So I started skimming through the first few chapters of your book. As you mentioned, it has a more conversational tone, but it's also packed with real life stories. Tell us more about how your book stands out from other business or career-oriented books.

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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in the early part of the book i noticed you actually list out who would be the readers for this book you lay out all the criteria And as I read through them, I thought, oh, I fit this, I fit that. So I know this book is for me. I check off, if not all, at least 9 out of 10 of those points. Then you also make clear who the book is not for with a list of about 20 things.

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's episode is a special one for me. I'm joined by none other than Erica Ayers-Bodden, the current CEO of Food52, a leading innovator in the food, cooking, and home space.

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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I was relieved because I wasn't any of those. But I would say for sure this book is for people who desire a change at work and understand that change at work is a gateway to changing their life. That's actually the first criterion you list. That's exactly right. For those who like to follow rules and are comfortable following rules, this book is not for you, unfortunately.

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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Inside, there are a lot, a lot of different stories, and one specific story stands out to me is about your interview with a few major decision makers when you were trying to get a job the ceo job at barstool i found it very very interesting and i'm mostly honest I can definitely relate to your point about how this book is different from others because you tell the truth about what happened.

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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At that time, you mentioned you were not sure about the interview's outcome and even thought you did not do well. Then one of those decision makers you spoke with said, I think we could give it a try, although I'm not sure if you can do it. It's so raw and unfiltered. That's what I appreciate. This is why I'm really enjoying the book and I plan to finish it soon.

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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I'm excited that Erica has captured this reality so perfectly, and I'm grateful she is saying it out loud, helping others who feel stuck in their careers confront the truth and break free from the baggage holding them back. In this episode, we'll dive into the book why she wrote it, why now, and why this title.

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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There are surely a lot of nuggets of wisdom in the book. And one that stands out to me is when you highlight five simple things for anyone to succeed at work. Who you are, what you have to offer, how you show up, what you do with your time, and how much you care. Five core things. Erica, could you briefly walk us through why you chose these five?

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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After so many years of working across different industry, in different countries and eventually landing leadership roles and become a CEO who turned a company around. How did you distill all those learnings into these five simple points? And how can we as individuals apply them to move forward in our own careers?

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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I found that in my life and in the lives of many successful people I know, Their career decisions, how they present themselves, and what they care about often link back to their past. Whether it's their family upbringing, early experiences, or even the history of their parents or grandparents, these become powerful force that shape who they become.

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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Could you share a bit more about your younger years? Maybe something from your family and life or childhood that nurtured your business instincts despite not going to business school? Was this something from your past that helped shape the person you are today? Motivated, ambitious, successful, yet always true to yourself?

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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Plus, we'll unpack some key nuggets of wisdom, including five simple things anyone can do to succeed at work. In the next episode, Erica will open up about her life and career experiences, her upbringing, her parents, her leadership approach, and even her thoughts on toxic work cultures. And here's something you won't hear in other interviews.

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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In the next episode, Erica will open up about her life and career experiences. her upbringing, her parents, her leadership approach, and even her thoughts on toxic work cultures. And here's something you won't hear in other interviews. What career advice would she give her own two children who are in middle school, especially in this rapidly changing workplace?

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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What career advice would Erica give her own two middle school children, given we are in such a rapidly changing workplace? That's our in-depth look at Erika Ayers Baden. Let's dive right in. Welcome, Erika. Thanks for being here. Thank you, Vince. I'm excited to be here. Erika, let's start with a bit of your career history.

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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So initially, you planned to go to law school, or perhaps it was more of an expectation from your parents. But in the end, you chose a different path. What led you to that decision?

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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Now it's time to dive into your book. I have to confess to the audience. When Erica and her team reached out to me about doing this interview, I immediately said yes, like no hesitation at all. Why? What drew me in so quickly was the title of the book, which is No One Cares About Your Career. This is punchy title.

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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and given Erica's expertise in marketing, I'm not surprised she came up with something so catchy. But it's not just about the phrase. It's about those five words. They resonate with me 100%. Seriously, I learned this truth a hard way in my own journey. is one of life's realities. And once I understood it, I accepted it, and even embraced it.

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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Erica, if you and I were in a studio together right now, I would give you a hug or at least a solid high five for speaking my mind so perfectly. Take a hug, Vince. Thank you. Thank you. One day when I come to the States and interview you in person, let's do that. Anyway, back to the book title. I'm curious, how did you come up with No One Cares About Your Career as the title?

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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Was it something you had in mind from the start of your writing process? Or did it come up later, maybe as a result of collaboration with your publisher or editor?

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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Before her time at Food52, Erica was the first-ever CEO of Barstool Sports, and her career spans across media, marketing, and tech, with roles at companies like Fidelity Investments, Microsoft, AOL, and Yahoo. But let me be clear, this isn't about interviewing someone with big titles. On my show, I bring on guests who are willing to share real life stories. And Erica has no shortage of those.

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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With the pandemic, everyone was stuck at home and you used a podcast to keep your team engaged instead of just sending long emails. It helped keep everyone active and connected Soon, more people outside your firm started paying attention, sending in career-related questions, which you began answering. Eventually, it led you to think, why not put all of this into a book?

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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A way to reach a wider audience and share your experiences and thoughts more broadly. Does that sound like a fair summary of your journey?

Chief Change Officer

#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

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Maybe one day you could become like Ray Dalio, one of the billionaire investors in the U.S., After retiring, he's turned his life's work and lessons into a 600-page book called Principles. I'm sure you've heard of it. He even collaborated with professors to develop courses around content.

Chief Change Officer

#145 Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Career Burnout into a Comeback

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I love to hear about the other side of things too. We just discussed a more successful case, but I'm also curious about the challenges you faced in helping people through this journey. Stories where things didn't go as planned. Maybe there's a single story that stands out, or maybe it's a pattern across different experiences.

Chief Change Officer

#145 Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Career Burnout into a Comeback

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Whether it's due to a client's own psychology, some part of their past serving as a barrier to change, or something else entirely. I'll be interested to know why, even with all the interventions, guidance, and effort, things sometimes just don't click. Any insights you can share from these not so successful transformations would be valuable.

Chief Change Officer

#145 Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Career Burnout into a Comeback

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In today's episode, Darcy and I dive into why staying might be the best move and how you can bounce back from a low point. We are all Incredibles with the superpowers to save ourselves. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#145 Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Career Burnout into a Comeback

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That's a powerful story. Reflecting on my own experience and those of friends, colleagues, and younger professionals I've met, there's one major barrier that often stands out when it comes to navigating career transitions or even finding ways to stay engaged and resilient in the same role without burning out. And that's fear. You explore this in your book, and I would like to discuss it further.

Chief Change Officer

#145 Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Career Burnout into a Comeback

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Fear is such a powerful force. It can hold us back or, if managed well, propel us forward. Could you share more on how this fear factor works in career transitions and how we can learn to manage it better I can think of so many ways fear plays out. From fear of failure to fear of the unknown.

Chief Change Officer

#145 Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Career Burnout into a Comeback

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Great, I'll definitely try some of your strategies. To wrap up though, there's so many things we can do from reading books and getting professional help to learning from others. If you had to give us just a couple of pieces of advice that we can start working, that we can start trying right now, what would those be?

Chief Change Officer

#145 Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Career Burnout into a Comeback

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Absolutely. Getting clarity on the situation before jumping to solutions is key. is always about understanding the problem deeply before trying to solve it. So often, we think we've identified the issue and rush to fix it, only to find the solution doesn't really fit because we misjudged the situation from the start. Focusing on the core of the problem,

Chief Change Officer

#145 Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Career Burnout into a Comeback

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giving yourself space to analyze and allowing for clarity before taking action or seeking help can make all the difference.

Chief Change Officer

#145 Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Career Burnout into a Comeback

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#145 Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Career Burnout into a Comeback

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Many coaches out there say, I help leaders with this and that. But I'm curious, in your practice, which specific groups of leaders are you working with? What particular qualities or types of people do you focus on helping and empowering?

Chief Change Officer

#145 Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Career Burnout into a Comeback

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Your book is called Red Cape Rescue. The first question that came to my mind was, why Red Cape? What is the meaning behind this title?

Chief Change Officer

#145 Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Career Burnout into a Comeback

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Each morning, you're dragging yourself out of bed, dreading the day ahead. The oldest boy feels off. Politics and gossip. A draining. And deadlines seem endless. Walking away feels like the only way out. Whether quietly or loudly. But our guest today, Darcy Eichenberg.

Chief Change Officer

#145 Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Career Burnout into a Comeback

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So we are all our own superheroes, right? Batman, Spider-Man, Superman, the Incredibles. We each have that hero inside us. And as I read your book, I notice you lay it out in three distinct parts. Reset, how you think. Revise, what you say. and reinvent what you do. Could you give us an overview of these three stages of transformation? Reset, revise, and reinvent.

Chief Change Officer

#145 Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Career Burnout into a Comeback

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I think it would be really helpful for listeners, whether they are senior, junior, or mid-level, who might feel a bit stuck. A breakdown of this process might give them some inspiration and even help them find a way forward. Yes, yes.

Chief Change Officer

#145 Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Career Burnout into a Comeback

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The first section, reset, really resonates with me. Knowing yourself, understanding yourself. That self-awareness you emphasize is powerful. Once we graduate from college... We are basically on our own with no career center or clear path to guide us. Yet, we have 30, 40, even 50 years of work life ahead.

Chief Change Officer

#145 Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Career Burnout into a Comeback

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And even when career centers are available in college or business school, the scope is often narrowed, leaving us without realistic guidance on figuring ourselves out and charting our own course. So this self-awareness, this self-empowerment that you talk about and reset how you think really feels essential.

Chief Change Officer

#145 Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Career Burnout into a Comeback

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From your experience working with seasoned leaders and helping them figure out who they are and where they're going, Could you share a few examples? Maybe one success story and one more challenging case. Just to give us some insights into the process, the lessons learned, and what navigating those challenges can look like. Story time.

Chief Change Officer

#145 Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Career Burnout into a Comeback

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. So, you're thinking of quitting your job? Trust me, I've been there many times in my corporate life. You've hit a roadblock.

Chief Change Officer

#145 Darcy Eikenberg on Turning Career Burnout into a Comeback

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Author of the book titled Red Cape Rescue, Save Your Career Without Leaving Your Job, says, You don't have to quit to save your career. But how? I know what it's like to feel stuck. Back then, I wished for someone who could help me find a way out. When reading Darcy's book, I kept thinking, I wish I would have this when I needed it. But you don't have to wait.

Chief Change Officer

#405 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part One

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So let me try to recap, and you tell me if I got it right. You were saying that in modern history, starting from the 20th century, a lot of the current models still trace back to Kurt Lewin's work, the classic three-step model. And since then, most of the newer models basically follow a similar structure.

Chief Change Officer

#405 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part One

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three, maybe five stages moving from where you are now to where you want to be with some kind of transition or shift happening in between. So would it be fair to say that even with all the new frameworks, the core idea hasn't changed all that much since Kurt Lewin?

Chief Change Officer

#405 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part One

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Welcome to our show. You have this book called Book of Change. Naturally, this show is perfect for you. Before we start digging into your book and your learnings, tell us something about yourself, your journey leading up to the book.

Chief Change Officer

#405 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part One

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So stakeholder, basically managing the stakeholder perspective, the involvement there, their needs, their concerns. Is that what you mean?

Chief Change Officer

#405 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part One

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You have developed a new model. What's the name of it?

Chief Change Officer

#405 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Richard Carson, consultant, strategist, and the guy who once walked away from a government job to join the consultants he just hired.

Chief Change Officer

#405 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part One

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Yeah, I was just about to ask you about your model. You mentioned that it's built on Kurt Lewin's three-step change framework. I'm curious, how is your model different from his? or even from the other models out there. Give us an overview. How does your model work? What makes it similar to the classics? And what makes it stand out?

Chief Change Officer

#405 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part One

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So back to your model mentioned is people sustained. So while it includes the classic three stages, you've also built in several other steps and actions. What are they? Can you walk us through those? How do they come together in your model?

Chief Change Officer

#405 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part One

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That's it for today. We've heard how Richard stumbled into consulting, survived a time-tracking nightmare, and started seeing patterns in all the wrong problems. But next, we get into the real playbook. The book of change. Why 39 steps might not be too many. and the human stuff consultants usually skip. See you in part two. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#405 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part One

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#405 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part One

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I like what you said earlier. How even though you were an urban planner, you didn't exactly plan your own career path. It wasn't all mapped out. You just evolved along the way. Something would happen and you would think, yeah, this feels right. So you would dive deeper and then something else would come up. maybe connected to what you already like, and you would follow that too.

Chief Change Officer

#405 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part One

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These days, people throw away the word perfect a lot. But your path wasn't perfect. It was real. It unfolded step by step. That got me curious. When you say something interested you, what actually sparked that interest? Was it just a gut feeling? Was it a hunger to learn something new? Or are you one of those people who's actually addicted to change?

Chief Change Officer

#405 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part One

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Yeah, I agree with you on this. Totally.

Chief Change Officer

#405 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part One

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In this two-part series, we talk about what happens when organizations try to change but forget about people Richard shares what most consultants get wrong, why empathy isn't optional, and how a terrible time tracking system inspired his now 39-step change model. It's practical, honest, and filled with stories you won't forget. Let's get started. Welcome, Richard. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#405 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part One

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Yeah, of course, everyone has their own idea of what getting better means. And in the office environment, it's not just about change. There's politics, power dynamics, and other things that aren't even part of the equation when we talk about improving or evolving. Some people resist change not because they don't understand it, but because change threatens the status quo.

Chief Change Officer

#405 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part One

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And for them, that's uncomfortable.

Chief Change Officer

#405 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part One

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Now, you've written a book called The Book of Change. You also hold a doctoral degree in organizational change. So I imagine you've studied a wide range of change models. Obviously, we don't have time to go through all of them here. You probably need a full course just to do that. But I'd love to get your quick take. From your perspective and your studies, how have these models evolved over time?

Chief Change Officer

#405 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part One

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Has the way we think about change stayed more or less the same over the years? Or has it shifted drastically? Feel free to connect this with what you mentioned earlier. about employees being part of the solution? Or what happens when there is resistance, even in personal change? Has the approach to change itself changed?

Chief Change Officer

#85 Singapore’s Youngest Female Parliamentarian, Tin Pei Ling: A Life-Altering Election

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#85 Singapore’s Youngest Female Parliamentarian, Tin Pei Ling: A Life-Altering Election

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got more and more popular so that's why you got a lot of comments responses like every day every second so that is the kind of pressure that a regular human cannot just simply ignore it you have to kind of deal with it and judge what is relevant what's not relevant and what is actually noise what is actually a sincere comment i guess you learn the lessons along your way

Chief Change Officer

#85 Singapore’s Youngest Female Parliamentarian, Tin Pei Ling: A Life-Altering Election

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Pei-Ling and I were part of a six-person committee organizing all sorts of special activities and graduation events. We spent time inside and outside the classroom in Singapore as well as in Chicago. Over the last 10 years, as a classmate, as an alum, as a friend, I've observed her growth. In my eyes, Pei Ling is someone who embodies the core essence of change.

Chief Change Officer

#85 Singapore’s Youngest Female Parliamentarian, Tin Pei Ling: A Life-Altering Election

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I can definitely see this scene. Going back to some of the story you just shared, I guess over time, you change people's heart through your actions. Actions speak louder than words. As a public figure, you can, of course, spend your time responding to every single comment. That obviously is a waste of time because a lot of comments may not be relevant.

Chief Change Officer

#85 Singapore’s Youngest Female Parliamentarian, Tin Pei Ling: A Life-Altering Election

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At the same time, silence is golden or I would say silence is equivalent to absence of noise. So if there's so much noise, you just learn to recognize what is noise, what is helpful to you and how you respond and how you respond sometimes with words, sometimes through actions. Time would give you the benefit of doubt. Eventually you grow and people see it.

Chief Change Officer

#85 Singapore’s Youngest Female Parliamentarian, Tin Pei Ling: A Life-Altering Election

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That's the message you try to send to the world through the growth of your career.

Chief Change Officer

#85 Singapore’s Youngest Female Parliamentarian, Tin Pei Ling: A Life-Altering Election

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#85 Singapore’s Youngest Female Parliamentarian, Tin Pei Ling: A Life-Altering Election

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All the things I've mentioned earlier. Her story is a powerful reminder of what it means to own the change, to face the pain, and to emerge more resilient on the other side. In this episode, Pei Ling is going to share her incredible journey from psychology to politics. Why did she give up on pursuing clinical psychology?

Chief Change Officer

#85 Singapore’s Youngest Female Parliamentarian, Tin Pei Ling: A Life-Altering Election

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The year 2011 was a life-changing year for her, but in her own words, it was also the darkest period in her life. Facing in-person and social media attacks, dealing with biases relating to our age and gender. More importantly, how did she navigate through those challenges, make peace with them, and take control of her life post-election? Becoming the chief change officer of her own story?

Chief Change Officer

#85 Singapore’s Youngest Female Parliamentarian, Tin Pei Ling: A Life-Altering Election

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Let's dive in and find out. Welcome, Pei Ling.

Chief Change Officer

#85 Singapore’s Youngest Female Parliamentarian, Tin Pei Ling: A Life-Altering Election

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Before you got into politics, you were in psychology. Why did you give up on that?

Chief Change Officer

#85 Singapore’s Youngest Female Parliamentarian, Tin Pei Ling: A Life-Altering Election

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Speaking of change, I've made my fair share, 18 to be exact. One major moment was back in 2013 when I was 40 years old. I turned down a promising government job to take a leap of faith. I published my first book and joined Chicago Booth for my second MBA. That's where I met Pei Ling. our class had a meaningful mix of personalities. Pei Ling was among the youngest in our class.

Chief Change Officer

#85 Singapore’s Youngest Female Parliamentarian, Tin Pei Ling: A Life-Altering Election

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So you got into business consulting. Sounds like a good first job in your life. But then, what happened when you decided to get into politics?

Chief Change Officer

#85 Singapore’s Youngest Female Parliamentarian, Tin Pei Ling: A Life-Altering Election

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Would you say the move into politics was a big move for you? And you were a student in psychology. So let me flip the table to ask you about your own psychology. How did you feel about this change?

Chief Change Officer

#85 Singapore’s Youngest Female Parliamentarian, Tin Pei Ling: A Life-Altering Election

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You're always on call.

Chief Change Officer

#85 Singapore’s Youngest Female Parliamentarian, Tin Pei Ling: A Life-Altering Election

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You touched upon a bit about great election and after you being the youngest, also being a woman. So when you look back about your experience, how did you try to make peace with them, but at the same time, overcome these issues in order to do your job, also to take good care of your own mental health?

Chief Change Officer

#85 Singapore’s Youngest Female Parliamentarian, Tin Pei Ling: A Life-Altering Election

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I was one of the most experienced. But by then, I already have over 15 years of work experiences in the business world and a seasoned MBA graduate from Yale. Yet, we all came together to be part of something special and monumental. We are the legacy class graduating in Singapore in the history of Chicago Booth, which was prepared to move its campus to Hong Kong.

Chief Change Officer

#85 Singapore’s Youngest Female Parliamentarian, Tin Pei Ling: A Life-Altering Election

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In today's world, if you look at ageism at workplace, many media focus on so-called the older end of the population spectrum. Especially when you talk about like tech company innovation, over 40 or 50. According to a lot of media, these more mature, more experienced or so-called older people, they are less tech savvy. Now that is one narrative.

Chief Change Officer

#85 Singapore’s Youngest Female Parliamentarian, Tin Pei Ling: A Life-Altering Election

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But I always believe that ageism is not limited to the mature people. It's for the so-called younger, which you just share your story with me. I recall in my days when I worked in finance in some of the biggest firms in the world, Men dominated, white guys, I'm being the Asian, I work overseas, I'm 20-something or early 30s.

Chief Change Officer

#85 Singapore’s Youngest Female Parliamentarian, Tin Pei Ling: A Life-Altering Election

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They may not say it in my face, but I can feel that they have their own, in quotation, reservation. I can relate to when you say it, but then in my situation, I have one less worry, which is social media. Your political career actually started around a time that this social media thing

Chief Change Officer

#72 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Erin Deal, founder and CEO of Improve It, a company that uses improv to help teams grow and thrive. Like me, she's also a top podcast host.

Chief Change Officer

#72 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part One

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I understand one of your key workshops focuses on failure. And you even coined the term Vellfluencers, a blend of failure and influencers. I'd love to dive into this topic, but from a personal perspective. Could you share your own experiences with failure? Not so much the workshops you facilitate or the lessons you teach, but your personal journey. How you've dealt with

Chief Change Officer

#72 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part One

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navigated and grown from failure over time. If you like, feel free to share specific stories and give us an overview of your journey with failure. Either way works.

Chief Change Officer

#72 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part One

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You mentioned as a teenager, you were determined to become a talk show host. I find that intriguing. Honestly, most people in their teens or even in college don't really know what they want to do, let alone something as specific as hosting a talk show. I mean, when I tell people I set my sights on getting into business school and earning an MBA at age 15, they often say, seriously? At 15?

Chief Change Officer

#72 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part One

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It seems so young to have such a focused goal. But back to you, why talk show host? I imagine some might dream of being a news anchor or getting into show business. But for you, what was it about talk show hosting that drew you in? Especially back then, before podcasts even existed, what was the story behind that ambition?

Chief Change Officer

#72 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part One

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So you're essentially in the business of joy. That's it. The short form. not keynote speaker, not founder or CEO. If someone asks you for your elevated pitch, this should be the first sentence out of your mouth. Hey, I'm in the business of joy. Thank you, Vince. Yes. Let's say we're at a party. I introduce myself to you. Hey, I'm Vince. You reply, I'm Erin. Nice to meet you.

Chief Change Officer

#72 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part One

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Then I ask, what business are you in? And you hit me with, oh, I'm in the business of joy. Instant curiosity triggered. Naturally, I would say, oh, tell me more about that. Such a great icebreaker.

Chief Change Officer

#72 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part One

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So no problem quoting that. I'm in the business of droid. And hey, I got it on record now. I promise I won't charge you for copyright. Yet. But seriously, something else fascinating from history is your first client. You mentioned you tried things out with United Airlines UA and eventually they pay you and everything took off from there. So what was that initial experiment with United like?

Chief Change Officer

#72 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part One

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From a young age, Erin dreamed of becoming a talk show host. Why did she choose that path? And how did her journey lead her to combine improv and business? I told Erin, you are in the business of joy. But beyond joy, we also talked about failure. Erin calls herself a fail-flu-lancer. a blend of failure and influence.

Chief Change Officer

#72 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part One

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What exactly did you do? I mean, Today, your business, Business Improv, is this successful franchise, but let's rewind to the beginning. What was iPhone 1.0 version of your business? What did it look like back then?

Chief Change Officer

#72 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part One

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What are your key performance indicators? How do you measure success in your business? And just as importantly, how do you identify areas for improvement?

Chief Change Officer

#72 Erin Diehl: The Fail-fluencer Behind The Business of Joy—Laughing Through Limbo — Part One

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This two-part series dives into her unique approach to joy, failure, growth, and learning. No more waiting. Let's get started. Welcome, Erin. Good morning to you. Where are you exactly?

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

Dominic, now in his 50s, is facing the same challenge as many of us are, aging parents. Only he's not just navigating it, he's building businesses around it. We'll dive into the future of aging tech, the cultural barriers that slow innovation. and why the biggest business opportunity in Japan might just be the one no one's paying enough attention to. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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You are looking to establish successful use cases, something tangible that can attract more resources, build momentum, and bring more voices to support your vision. That's how real impact happens. So I'm curious about the two projects you are currently working on. What are they, and more specifically, what problems are they solving? Since you mentioned that you carefully selected them,

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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There must be a strong reason behind why you believe they have a real short SSS. Can you tell us more about that?

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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Sure, there's so much to unpack in this topic, and I'd love to dive deeper in future episodes with you. But for now, as we conclude this conversation, after speaking with so many entrepreneurs and creators, and after carefully selecting just two projects to test in Japan, what have you learned?

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are talking with Dominic Carter, CEO of the Carter Group, whose journey from Australia to Japan is anything but predictable. He didn't just move aboard.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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For those listening or watching this on YouTube, whether they're builders, entrepreneurs, or investors, or maybe they're already working on something in this space, what advice would you give them? What risks should they watch out for? And on the flip side, what immediate opportunities should they pay attention to? your insights could be incredibly valuable to those making way in this space.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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I know there's a personal reason that led you to this next big thing. Can you share that story with us? What made this the right path for you?

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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Yesterday, I spoke with another guest about social impact, and she summed it up with three words, culture, cause, and capital. As you talk about opportunities and risks in Japan's aging space, I realized these three words fit perfectly. Cause, which is making life better for the aging population. Culture, which is understanding local nuances so products actually work for Japanese consumers.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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Capital, which is money. Money is important, but if a product doesn't meet real needs, it won't succeed. The economics is not right. Sometimes it's about tweaking the approach, the messaging, or even the design. And like you said, aging solutions aren't just about nursing homes or healthcare. There are so many unmet needs for people over 50, over 60, tons of opportunity.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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At the end of the day, it's about understanding the user, what they want, what they don't, and why. Aligning both sides is what creates real impact.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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Change is happening whether we like it or not. We age every second. It's not about if we change, but about how we change. And that's exactly what you're working on. Helping shape that change in a way that's human and meaningful. There's so much to consider. Mental health, financial security, and yes, scams.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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That's a serious issue in Japan, especially since it's one of the richest countries in the world with much of the wealth in the hands of the older generation. Lots to talk about and even more to do. Dominic, thank you so much for your time today.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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And that's where we leave it. From career changes to tackling Japan's aging crisis, Dominic's story is a lesson in adaptation, both in business and in life. The reality is, aging isn't something happening to other people. It's happening to all of us. The real question is, How are we going to prepare for it? Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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Right. So.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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Technology, no doubt, it plays a huge role. And I'll let you talk more about that in a moment. But as I was listening to your personal story, I couldn't help but relate. I'm also over 50. My parents are in the mid-70s, early 80s. And of course, many of my friends have parents around the same age. And yes, generational shifts are something we all see coming.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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What affects my parents now will eventually affect me. And not just now, but in the years ahead. But don't you think part of the challenge isn't just technology? It's not about having the right tools or even how good they are. A huge part of the problem is mindset and habit. Our parents' generation often isn't mentally prepared to adopt technology deeply.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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even when it could make their lives easier, healthier, or better. So when we talk about technology adoption, isn't the biggest barrier sometimes not the tech itself, but the willingness to accept and use it?

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

He jumped headfirst into a new culture, built a career, burned out, left, and then came right back, this time on his own terms. In Part 1, we dig into his early days, how a fascination with Japan turned into a full-blown career, why opening a Tokyo office at 24 almost broke him, and what made him bet on himself as an entrepreneur. In Part 2, things get personal.

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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Sure. So far, I haven't asked about your specific role in this tech space. Are you more of an investor? Are you actually building the technology? Or are you more on the marketing and community building side? What exactly is your role right now? And looking ahead, do you see yourself shifting, doing more of certain things, less of others?

Chief Change Officer

#240 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part Two

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Because beyond just creating new products, there's also the challenge of shaping mindsets, helping people become more open and receptive to this future of aging. How do you see your role in making that happen?

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

Dominic, now in his 50s, is facing the same challenge as many of us are, aging parents. Only he's not just navigating it, he's building businesses around it. We'll dive into the future of aging tech, the cultural barriers that slow innovation. and why the biggest business opportunity in Japan might just be the one no one's paying enough attention to. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Before we dive into your big current project, which I see has huge potential, let's do a quick age check. I know there's a personal reason that led you to this next big thing. Can you share that story with us? What made this the right path for you?

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Right. Yeah.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Technology, no doubt, it plays a huge role And I'll let you talk more about that in a moment. But as I was listening to your personal story, I couldn't help but relate. I'm also over 50. My parents are in the mid-70s, early 80s. And of course, many of my friends have parents around the same age. And yes, generational shifts are something we all see coming.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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What affects my parents now will eventually affect me, and not just now, but in the years ahead. But don't you think part of the challenge isn't just technology? It's not about having the right tools or even how good they are. A huge part of the problem is mindset and habit. Our parents' generation

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are talking with Dominic Carter, CEO of the Carter Group, whose journey from Australia to Japan is anything but predictable. He didn't just move aboard.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

1305.732

often isn't mentally prepared to adopt technology deeply, even when it could make their lives easier, healthier, or better. So when we talk about technology adoption, isn't the biggest barrier sometimes not the tech itself, but the willingness to accept and use it?

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Good afternoon to you, Dominic. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Dominic, you were originally from Australia, but now you're in Japan. You've been there for over 20 years or so. What brought you all the way from Australia to Japan is quite a long flight.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Sure. So far, I haven't asked about your specific role in this tech space. Are you more of an investor? Are you actually building the technology? Or are you more on the marketing and community building side? What exactly is your role right now? And looking ahead, do you see yourself shifting, doing more of certain things, less of others?

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Because beyond just creating new products, there's also the challenge of shaping mindsets, helping people become more open and receptive to this future of aging. How do you see your role in making that happen?

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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That's it for today. We've explored Dominic's journey from an outsider in Australia to building a career and a life in Japan. But his story doesn't stop there. Next, we turn to a challenge that hits close to home. Aging. From navigating his parents' changing needs to pushing the boundaries of aging tech in Japan, Dominic is tackling the future in a way that's both personal, scalable, and urgent.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Join me for part two. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Do you mind if I ask you at what age you moved over from Australia? After college or even before?

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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So basically, you first went there representing an overseas company. You did that for a few years, but decided, okay, time for a break, time to move on. You went back home, but then you returned, this time on your own. And ever since, you stayed, worked, built your business, and established your own credentials. Not to mention, you've built up your Japanese skills along the way.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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I'm guessing you speak it very well now.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Being your own boss comes with freedom, but it also means owning every decision, every action. Entrepreneurship, when successful, can bring big rewards, financially and otherwise, but behind the big paycheck comes There's also a lot of stress, pressure, and challenges that outsiders don't usually see. They just see the highlight reel, maybe even your face on a magazine cover.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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7, 8, 9 figure success? Great! Or maybe you are a low-profile entrepreneur just quietly building. Either way, it takes a certain type of person. Just like not everyone moves to Japan and stays long term, not everyone is cut out for entrepreneurship. Now, I know you've had your hands full over the past 20 years, running businesses, building, evolving.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

He jumped headfirst into a new culture, built a career, burned out, left, and then came right back, this time on his own terms. In Part 1, we dig into his early days, how a fascination with Japan turned into a full-blown career, why opening a Tokyo office at 24 almost broke him, and what made him bet on himself as an entrepreneur. In Part 2, things get personal.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Can you walk us through your entrepreneurial journey? Not just the ups and the downs, but also the types of things you've built along the way. I'd love to hear more about how it all unfolded.

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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I can see you're one of those people who's always moving forward, not making random redness jumps, but also never letting yourself get too comfortable. Looking back, what do you think drives you? What's the common thread behind every time you push past your boundaries into the next big thing? Is it motivation, emotion, a certain mindset, or something else entirely?

Chief Change Officer

#239 Dominic Carter: Cracking Japan’s Business Code – From Market Research to Aging Tech – Part One

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Some people are purely opportunistic. They follow the money, chasing trends that bring the biggest returns. But in my view, if that is the main driver, it doesn't lead to sustainable success. So what about you? What's the thread that connects everything you've done A to B to C and keeps you stretching your limits?

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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These days, when we talk about work culture, whether on social media or in actual conversations about the job market, one term that keeps coming up is toxic culture. Personally, I think office politics is one source of toxicity, yet it's almost inevitable when you have people working together. But beyond that, there are plenty of other factors that can contribute to a negative work environment.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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We also unpack some key nuggets of wisdom. including five simple things anyone can do to succeed at work. In this episode, Erica will open up about her life and career experiences, her upbringing, her parents, her leadership approach, and even her thoughts on toxic work cultures. And here's something you won't hear in other interviews.

Chief Change Officer

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From your experience, What's your take on toxic culture? What experiences have you had in dealing with negativities in the office environment?

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In the last episode, we started our two-part series featuring Erica Ayers Borden, the current CEO of Food52, a leading innovator in the food, cooking, and home space.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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with four or five generations currently in the workforce, each having different experiences and perspectives. I imagine even the same situation can be seen through very different lenses. I know you have two teenagers in your family. and if they come to you for advice about their careers, not now, but maybe in a few years, they're considering what to study in college.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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What kind of advice would you give them? Not as a successful CEO or social media figure, but as a parent, how would you guide them about their future, considering what you see happening in today's workplace?

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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What career advice would Erica give her own two middle school children? Given the fact that we are in such rapidly changing workplace. Let's dive right in.

Chief Change Officer

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Yes, for sure. Kids these days have access to so much so easily. I didn't even get on a plane until I was 11. And now you see kids flying business class at such a young age. traveling the world with their parents, getting sent to boarding schools, things we couldn't imagine back then. But anyway, that's probably a topic for another episode on parenting.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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So for my last question, looking ahead, what's your next challenge? Maybe it's not just the next one. Perhaps you already have a few things in mind, or maybe it's about a single life mission that you've been pursuing all along with each project being another step towards that goal. Can you share with us your business goals, life goals, or any future projects you're planning to embark on?

Chief Change Officer

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Maybe another book on parenting, for example.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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Thank you, Erica. I really enjoyed our conversation. You are a busy executive. And as I said at the beginning of our part one together, that's the last episode, I feel like I hit the jackpot, locking you down for an hour for this interview. Your nuggets of wisdom, including those 90-second pieces of advice on your YouTube channel are truly valuable. I love your energy.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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I found that in my life and in the lives of many successful people I know, their career decisions, how they present themselves, and what they care about often link back to the past, whether it's their family upbringing, early experiences, or even history of their parents or grandparents. These impact who they are today. Could you share a bit more about your younger years?

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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Maybe something from your family life or childhood that nurtured your business instincts despite not going to business school? Was this something from your past that helped shape the person you are today? motivated, ambitious, successful, yet always true to yourself?

Chief Change Officer

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It sounds like you grew up to be pretty independent, solving problems on your own. Recently, I saw a post on social media talking about Generation X. They call it the figure-it-out generation. They said we had to learn how to solve things on our own because our parents were too busy to hover over us. I'm Gen X too, and I can definitely relate to that. The story reminds me of that experience.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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I also grew up in a disciplined environment. And my parents actually blocked me from watching TV. Not just MTV, but all TV. The funny thing is, I am a visual learner. So I realized later that I learn best when I'm stimulated by visual images. Yeah, same. Okay. Now, you've become CEO of two companies. Let's talk about your adulthood. In particular, about building career.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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From your perspective, are titles at work really that important?

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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Before her time at Food52, Erica was the first ever CEO of Barstool Sports, and her career spans across media, marketing, and tech, with roles at companies like Fidelity Investments, Microsoft, AOL, and Yahoo. She is also the author of a new book called No One Cares About Your Career. In the last episode, we dive into the book, why she wrote it, why now, and why this title.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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Yeah, I must admit, I used to be quite conscious about titles, especially in the financial services industry where titles often aligned with salary. If you don't have a MD title, for example, the salary range can be significantly lower. So in the first few years of my post-MBA career, titles become a way to measure growth and progression. They were not an obsession, but they definitely mattered.

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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For a lot of people, titles are still tied to career advancement. On the flip side, in the tech and startup world, titles like CEO have become much more democratized. But like you said, it's not really about the title. It's about the impact you make. With great titles comes great responsibility. That leads me to my next question. As a leader, Beyond titles, how do you define success?

Chief Change Officer

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And how do you define failure? In your book, you mentioned that failure is actually a good thing. I'd love to hear your perspective on failure versus success.

Chief Change Officer

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So would you say the kind of culture you're building leans more towards a growth mindset? You've mentioned that you prefer employees to take risks, try things out. And even if it doesn't work out, you value the effort and the approach. Is that how you foster a culture of continuous improvement, where the process gets refined over time and eventually leads to better results?

Chief Change Officer

#183 Erika Ayers Badan: Why “No One Cares About Your Career” Might Be the Best Advice Yet – Part Two

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A related question would be, how would you define your leadership style and approach?

Chief Change Officer

#107 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part One

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So you were diagnosed around seven to eight years ago and you discovered through surgery rather than injury. You've also said dealing with chronic pain and a range of challenges. How has this disease affected your day-to-day life and work? I can only imagine how difficult it must be.

Chief Change Officer

#107 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part One

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To the extent that you are comfortable sharing, I'd love to hear about how you've managed and navigated these challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#107 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part One

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Today, in Part 1, Asena shares her experience with Lyme disease, a condition that remains poorly understood but has profoundly impacted her health. She'll talk about how she caught it, what she's endured, and the fight to survive. Tomorrow in part two, Asina will share how she not only survived, but found ways to thrive, rebuild her support system, and grow her career once again.

Chief Change Officer

#107 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part One

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I really resonate with what you said about being our biggest advocate, especially in tough times. We hear a lot about IQ and EQ, emotional quotient, emotional intelligence. But that's not a measure. Adversity quotient or AQ, which seems less talked about yet, so crucial. I think we are all starting to see how important it really is Your experience is a powerful example of this.

Chief Change Officer

#107 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part One

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Physical pain is intense and medications might help here and there. Maybe make sleep easier. But that's only part of it. It's the mental resilience that really keeps us going. Especially in those moments when you are alone, in pain, facing it all. What stands out from what you've just shared is how you found ways to mentally change your focus, even on the small things, to help you stay grounded.

Chief Change Officer

#107 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part One

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It seems like that's been your best defense and maybe even your offense.

Chief Change Officer

#107 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part One

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Just now, Alcina shared with us about how she caught Lyme disease, what she has endured in her fight to survive. Tomorrow in Part 2, Asina will share more about how she not only survived but found ways to thrive actively to rebuild her support system and grow her career once again. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

Chief Change Officer

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#107 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part One

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Athena, welcome to our show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. I know you're in Denver. Good afternoon to you.

Chief Change Officer

#107 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part One

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I hope this turns out to be an enjoyable conversation that takes your mind off the stress of what's arguably the biggest event in the world right now. So Asena, let's start with your story.

Chief Change Officer

#107 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part One

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Instead, we dive into her extraordinary journey of resilience. At the peak of her real estate career, Feeling invincible and unstoppable, Athena's life took unexpected turn. Strange health issues appeared, and she was eventually diagnosed with Lyme disease, a condition that would change everything. For the past seven years,

Chief Change Officer

#107 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part One

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That's so much. We can dive into here. Athena, can you share with us how old were you when you were first diagnosed?

Chief Change Officer

#107 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part One

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You mentioned that this disease is rare and you were fortunate to find a doctor who understood it well. But for most of my listeners in the U.S. as well as internationally, this condition isn't widely known, meaning there's a lack of awareness, which could be risky. Could you enlighten us a bit more? What exactly is this disease and what should people know about it?

Chief Change Officer

#107 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm talking to Athena Bronson, a real estate agent from Denver, Colorado. No, we are not talking about real estate.

Chief Change Officer

#107 Athena Brownson: Rebuilding Life and Mindset After an 8-Year Lyme Disease Journey — Part One

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Athena has lived in chronic pain, relying on plasma transfusions four days each month just to keep going. Her life has revolved around battling this disease, something she never imagined facing. As she says, if life didn't give us adversity and challenges. This story is too powerful and real for just one episode.

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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What were some of the things you enjoyed growing up in Hong Kong? Can you share more about activities or experiences that were particularly meaningful to you during that time?

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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I remember that I actually took a photo with that piece and Vince, your husband, explained the significance of that dim sum container to me. Since Vince's family is in the restaurant business, he shared how dim sum plays a major role in Hong Kong's dining culture and overall culture.

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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That really big dim sum container, especially made, as far as I know, was something you turned into a piece of art.

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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May, tell us a bit more about your artwork. Are there any particular pieces that stand out to you? Ones that you find especially memorable and would like to share with us?

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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So don't go away.

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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This seems like the perfect time to talk more about art of my family. May, you've mentioned this charity a few times during our interview. It's called Art of My Family, with my M-Y standing for your name, May Yeung. When I look at your website, you set various goals. Making art accessible, promoting social inclusion, fostering cultural exchange,

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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strengthening mental wellness, and championing environmental protection. These are all very important agendas. Looking back over the past six years, I'm curious, how would you assess your progress? Of course, we've reached a stage in life where we don't just judge our achievements based on report cards.

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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And you've mentioned that you used to be a perfectionist, but now have a different perspective. But if you have to evaluate your progress over the last six years, how would you rate yourself? And as a follow-up, looking forward, what else do you want to achieve? Are there areas where you feel you haven't done enough or where you believe you can do a better job? So it's a two-part question.

Chief Change Officer

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First, assessing your past progress. And second, looking ahead and learning from the past to improve in the future.

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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Mei is a teaching artist. What is a teaching artist, you may wonder? And how does she develop her artistic journey? Before we do a deep dive, let us start with May's history. May, give us an overview of your history, your education, your life experiences, just to give us some perspective. Then we will explore different elements of your journey in the later part of our show.

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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Speaking of mental wellness or well-being, It's important to acknowledge that whether in Hong Kong or elsewhere in the world, aftermath of COVID, economic uncertainty, and other global challenges have created a lot of stress. These aren't just isolated events. They are interconnected factors that bring about significant changes.

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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In my view, embracing change can be a growth opportunity, but also brings mental pressure and negativity, which can impact everyone's well-being. I agree with you that wellness is crucial for everyone, from the elderly to who have their own challenges to children who are the pillars of our future society. Often, the mental issues we face as adults can be traced back to childhood.

Chief Change Officer

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Something that happened in the family or during those formative years shapes how we see the world, how we behave, our mindset, and even our life and career choices. That's why I really admire your focus on intervening early in children's lives. The impact you're making goes beyond what can be measured financially. It's truly invaluable. For that, I applaud you.

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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Now, I would like to wrap up our interview with a question that touches on the many roles you play. You run a charity, you are a mother raising a child, you take care of your own health, and you are a teaching artist with a wide range of interests. How do you balance all these different roles and responsibilities? And more importantly, what is your life mission now and going forward?

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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The future is uncertain, the present is here, and the past is behind us. But when you set a goal for yourself, it's clear that you are fully committed and don't back out. So what would you say is your life mission?

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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That's wonderful. May, I'm really looking forward to seeing more of your artwork at attending your exhibitions. As I mentioned, next time when your son picks up more words and expands his vocabulary, we'll have another interview. We'll do it entirely on video. We'll let him join in. That would be super awesome.

Chief Change Officer

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard... Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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You went to the University of Chicago to study visual art along with another interest of yours, political science. I happen to know a lot of people from Hong Kong and China, including myself, who attempt the University of Chicago to study economics, business, mathematics, or physics. Yet, even at your young age, you purposely chose art as your major. Tell us more about the why

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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Why at that age you decided to pursue art as your major? Why you wanted to get serious about this field of study rather than just keeping it as a hobby or as an interest?

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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You've mentioned to me before that music has had a significant influence on your journey as an artist. Can you share more about how music plays a role in your art world?

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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Yet so far, I haven't interviewed any guests from right here in Hong Kong. Today, that changes. I'm excited to bring a local guest to the studio, May Yeung, founder of the charity Art of My Family, a teaching artist, a cancer survivor, a mother to a really cute boy, and the wife of another Vince, who happens to be a good friend of mine. May has experienced many life changes over the years.

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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In your career so far, you've explored various areas of art, like music, sculpture, and painting. But you've also spent a good amount of time in the corporate world, including investment banking and working for a tech company in the CSR or ESG space.

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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What were your thoughts back then about gaining this so-called standard commercial and business experience while still pursuing your artistic ambitions?

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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Speaking of perseverance, I can't help but ask about a significant aspect of your personal life. You shared in other media interviews that you were diagnosed with cancer at a young age and battled the illness for a considerable time. Could you share how this experience transformed or impacted you? Did it make you a more empathetic or artistic person? Or perhaps it had a different effect?

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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How does this health and personal experience shape your journey? I think our listeners would really appreciate hearing about the life lessons you've learned from this challenging time.

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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A near-death experience gives you a new perspective on life. While that experience is full of suffering, and we don't try to glorify it. It can also lead to personal growth. You came out of it as a better person, someone who embraces life more fully and finds greater happiness. And speaking of life, I know that in recent years, you've started a new chapter

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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You got married to another Vince, who's also a friend of mine, from the University of Chicago. And you have a son, a new life that you're nurturing. How is modelhood treating you so far? How has this experience, along with other major life events, impacted your perspective as an artist and in helping your communities?

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. I started this show in Hong Kong and I run the show in Hong Kong. I'm originally from Hong Kong, talking to guests from every corner of the world possible.

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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She's determined to use the power of art in her own way to change lives and create an environmentally sustainable, mentally healthy, and socially inclusive society here in Hong Kong. Hong Kong is not just about business, finance and money. May has chosen a different path to do well and to do good. And as a side note, we've got our youngest guest ever, May's 11-month-old son joining us on the show.

Chief Change Officer

#106 Hong Kong’s May Yeung: Creating Art’s Brightest Magic from Life’s Deepest Struggles

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So back to our original question about a new chapter in your life about a new life that you're nurturing about motherhood

Chief Change Officer

#300 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part One

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This episode might just change how you measure success. Let's get into it. Good morning, Sandy. Welcome to our show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#300 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Sandy Gogart, former slam dunk champion, longtime corporate leader, and founder of SEG, which stands for Simple Easy Girls.

Chief Change Officer

#300 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part One

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Wow, your background is great. It got you in the center with Albert Einstein right beside you. It feels like I'm hosting not just one guest today, but two. I know we'll be talking about topics that even Albert might have appreciated, which is growth, energy, change, and transition. Before we get into all of that, let's start with your story.

Chief Change Officer

#300 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part One

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you brought up a lot of important ideas, and I want to unpack one in particular, which is action versus inaction. Just to be clear, I know you're not talking about sitting back and doing nothing or being lazy, but some people might misinterpret it that way. And in extreme cases, like in China during and after COVID, There's been this trend where some younger folks choose to opt out entirely.

Chief Change Officer

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No drive, no ambition, and that kind of passive inaction can lead to poor mental health and is not helpful for society either. But I know that's not what you mean. So could you give an example from your own life? What does your version of intentional inaction look like?

Chief Change Officer

#300 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part One

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Tell us a bit about yourself, your background, your journey, how you evolved over the years. Then we'll dive into different parts of your experience and your approach to growth.

Chief Change Officer

#300 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part One

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As you were speaking, I realized you were describing my exact experience as a podcast host. This show is about one year old. I came up with the plan just two weeks before Christmas 2023. Hosting the podcast was never part of any plan. But after COVID and some time in reflection, I felt this pull. Maybe I should start one. I've done a lot of public speaking before. On stage, in group, one-on-one.

Chief Change Officer

#300 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part One

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In finance, raising money. I figured if I could move people to invest millions and billions of dollars, maybe I could move them in a different way too. I didn't start with a business plan or goals around monetization. I just followed the idea. And along the way, things unfolded. Guests referred more guests. The show built momentum. A podcast network even reached out.

Chief Change Officer

#300 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part One

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At first I thought it was spam, but it was real. Now that's ad revenue too. So yes, everything you just described, I've been living it and it's been a really meaningful ride.

Chief Change Officer

#300 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part One

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get lost and realized the summit wasn't even his. But next, we get into what happens after the climb, how to grow, how to heal, and how to build something that actually fits. We'll also dive into the live pills method and what it means to shrink down without falling apart. Don't miss it. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#300 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part One

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You talked about spending three decades as an executive, climbing the corporate ladder, chasing money, power, recognition. What was it really like for you being in the thick of it all? I imagine on one hand, There was pride, getting promoted, landing big roles, earning a great paycheck. But on the other hand, did you ever feel something was missing? Maybe stress building up?

Chief Change Officer

#300 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part One

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Or a sense that you were not really fulfilled, even if you couldn't quite name it at the time?

Chief Change Officer

#300 Sande Golgart: What If You’re Winning the Wrong Game? — Part One

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In this two-part series, Sandy opens up about chasing titles. burning out, getting lost, and realizing he has climbed the wrong mountain. We talk about ego, clarity, and the live pills method, a way of becoming more of yourself by stripping things away, not adding more on. It's personal, it's short, It's philosophical, but it's also practical.

Chief Change Officer

#299 Chris Quek: Building the Next Gen, Starting With His Own

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In this episode and the last, I'm talking to Christopher Kwak, a third-generation member of a well-established family business in Singapore. against his father's expectations.

Chief Change Officer

#299 Chris Quek: Building the Next Gen, Starting With His Own

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You've accomplished a lot over the years. I'm curious, how does your father see your growth and development? Looking back, you did not follow the path he expected. And over years, you've gone through many changes. If I heard you correctly, you even sold your inheritance to start Triath and raise the capital to build the farm. If I were in your father's shoes...

Chief Change Officer

#299 Chris Quek: Building the Next Gen, Starting With His Own

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How would I feel seeing my son try out so many different things and achieve so much while still striving for more? Had he said anything to you about your journey so far? How does your family view your transformation?

Chief Change Officer

#299 Chris Quek: Building the Next Gen, Starting With His Own

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I recall you wrote an article titled, Is Singapore still relevant after 50 years? Here's an entrepreneurial view. So you returned to Singapore after Malaysia built up the startup ecosystem and founded your venture capital house. Could you share with us your experience during this time?

Chief Change Officer

#299 Chris Quek: Building the Next Gen, Starting With His Own

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I can definitely resonate with the Chinese mindset and culture you mentioned earlier. A lot of my friends grew up to become doctors, lawyers, or accountants. Those expected professional paths. I'm actually a trained accountant. That was my first job. But over time, I changed directions. While I don't have your kind of family background, my parents also had expectations for me.

Chief Change Officer

#299 Chris Quek: Building the Next Gen, Starting With His Own

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At some point, I made certain moves to fulfill those expectations. But eventually, I broke free from them. I can really relate to that desire to break free, the persistence it takes, and the actions required to make it happen. The tagline for this show is make change ambitiously. which is all about building your own legacy and creating your own path rather than following a standard playbook.

Chief Change Officer

#299 Chris Quek: Building the Next Gen, Starting With His Own

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In your story and journey so far, I see those elements very clearly. I'm sure your father, your friends, and everyone who has supported you along the way see it too.

Chief Change Officer

#299 Chris Quek: Building the Next Gen, Starting With His Own

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One last question. Since we've talked about intergenerational wealth, and we're now living in an era of intergenerational workforce, I'm curious, you are a father yourself. So what are your expectations for your children as they grow up? In terms of their identity, their careers, and their lives, what do you hope for them?

Chief Change Officer

#299 Chris Quek: Building the Next Gen, Starting With His Own

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Let's wrap up our conversation by looking into the future, not just from a business perspective, but in terms of your children's lives. I think this would be a nice way to close our discussion.

Chief Change Officer

#299 Chris Quek: Building the Next Gen, Starting With His Own

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#299 Chris Quek: Building the Next Gen, Starting With His Own

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I read in your presentation that 92% of businesses in Southeast Asia are family-run. I'd like to dig deeper into the unique challenges these next-gen family business owners face. Could you explain a bit more, especially for listeners who may not be from this part of the world or who don't have experience with family businesses?

Chief Change Officer

#299 Chris Quek: Building the Next Gen, Starting With His Own

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I think it would be helpful for us to understand the specific challenges because some people might assume, oh, they all have money. So what's the situation? What are the real challenges they face?

Chief Change Officer

#299 Chris Quek: Building the Next Gen, Starting With His Own

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He left the family business and his home country to pursue entrepreneurship in Malaysia, where he became an e-commerce entrepreneur. Upon returning to Singapore, he sold his inheritance to raise the set up capital for his venture capital firm. Chris wants to be his own man. We've explored his journey of transformation in two parts.

Chief Change Officer

#299 Chris Quek: Building the Next Gen, Starting With His Own

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When I look at your business model for Trice as a VC, it strikes me as quite smart. There are tons of VCs out there, but as I prepare for this interview and read about your approach, I realized how clever it is. So for those who may not be familiar with how venture capital works, VCs don't just invest their own money.

Chief Change Officer

#299 Chris Quek: Building the Next Gen, Starting With His Own

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They also raise money from investors, and then as fiduciaries, managing that pool of money by investing in high growth potential businesses. The objective is for these businesses to succeed, generate returns, and provide profits back to the investors. What stands out about your model, Chris, is that you've built a strong network with the next generation of family business owners.

Chief Change Officer

#299 Chris Quek: Building the Next Gen, Starting With His Own

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These individuals have capital, and you are able to raise money from them. They don't have to commit a massive amount of money. Perhaps each might allocate a million dollars or so, maybe even low seven-figure sum. But with the right scale, even a half million dollar check for each could add up significantly as limited partners in your fund.

Chief Change Officer

#299 Chris Quek: Building the Next Gen, Starting With His Own

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Your fund has deployed about $40 million so far, investing in technologies with next gen solutions that could be highly relevant to these family businesses. This creates a cycle of synergy You raise funds, invest in technology, and these technologies can in turn serve as solutions for the businesses of your investors.

Chief Change Officer

#299 Chris Quek: Building the Next Gen, Starting With His Own

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It's a cycle that keeps the entire engine moving along smoothly, allowing you to continue raising funds and investing in technology that benefits everyone involved. I must say, the whole setup makes a lot of sense to me.

Chief Change Officer

#299 Chris Quek: Building the Next Gen, Starting With His Own

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The last episode focused on his pursuit of his own identity, his desires, his actions, the why and the how. In this episode, We'll dive into his work as a VC investor, building up the entrepreneurial ecosystem in Singapore and Southeast Asia. We'll discuss the legacy he hopes to create for his country and the region. And we'll talk about his expectations for his children as a father at age 46.

Chief Change Officer

#298 Chris Quek: From Inheritance to Identity

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It's like planting a seed. Along the way, you nurture it. And eventually, it bears fruit. Life has a way of bringing things back to you at the right time if you go with the flow.

Chief Change Officer

#298 Chris Quek: From Inheritance to Identity

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I'm not being religious here, but after years of cross-cultural experiences, getting to know different cultures, people, and backgrounds, I've noticed that certain common themes link up the decisions I've made in my career and life. So I'm curious about your journey. You are 46 with family and children.

Chief Change Officer

#298 Chris Quek: From Inheritance to Identity

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Looking back up to this point in your life, have you discovered or identified any common themes that have guided the moves you've made along the way?

Chief Change Officer

#298 Chris Quek: From Inheritance to Identity

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In this episode and the next, I'll be talking to Christopher Quek, a third-generation member of a well-established family business in Singapore.

Chief Change Officer

#298 Chris Quek: From Inheritance to Identity

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We'll also explore his expectations for his own children as a father at age 46. Chris, welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#298 Chris Quek: From Inheritance to Identity

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As I was listening, two words came to mind, self-discovery and self-fulfillment. It seems that your life and career have been about discovering, identifying, and fulfilling your identities. While you've mentioned roles like entrepreneur and now investor, these are more like perspectives you take or roles you play. But I believe that identity is something essential or central to everyone's life.

Chief Change Officer

#298 Chris Quek: From Inheritance to Identity

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Not just for those with privileged backgrounds, but for anyone and everyone. I know some really successful people who, by the time they retire or near the end of their life journey, regret that they followed the standard playbook and never gave themselves a chance to do more. To do something different, for example.

Chief Change Officer

#298 Chris Quek: From Inheritance to Identity

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So I appreciate your boldness, your adventurous attitude, and the actions you've taken so far. I recall you wrote an article titled, Is Singapore Still Relevant After 50 Years? Here's an Entrepreneurial View. So you returned to Singapore after Malaysia. built up the startup ecosystem and founded your venture capital house. Could you share with us your experience during this time?

Chief Change Officer

#298 Chris Quek: From Inheritance to Identity

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Stay tuned for the part two of Chris' Journey of Transformation. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#298 Chris Quek: From Inheritance to Identity

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Chris and I met a few years back through a common friend in Singapore. Since then, we've exchanged a lot of ideas about entrepreneurship, investment and more. Today, I invite Chris to come over to our show and share with us about his own journey into entrepreneurship and investment, as well as his vision for driving change in the Southeast Asian entrepreneurial ecosystem.

Chief Change Officer

#298 Chris Quek: From Inheritance to Identity

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At the start, Chris, could you share with us about your background and personal career? Then we'll explore different parts of your journey.

Chief Change Officer

#298 Chris Quek: From Inheritance to Identity

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You mentioned you were raised in a fairly established family business. You could have taken the easy route, taken over the family business, scale it up, and continued making money. But instead, you chose to be more entrepreneurial and take risks.

Chief Change Officer

#298 Chris Quek: From Inheritance to Identity

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I'm curious, was there anything in your childhood, in your family education, or the environment you grew up in that helped shape your entrepreneurial spirit and mindset?

Chief Change Officer

#298 Chris Quek: From Inheritance to Identity

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Against his father's expectations, he left the family business and his home country to pursue entrepreneurship in Malaysia. where he became an e-commerce entrepreneur. Upon returning to Singapore, he sold his inheritance to raise the set of capital for his venture capital firm. Chris wants to be his own man. We will explore his journey of transformation in two parts.

Chief Change Officer

#298 Chris Quek: From Inheritance to Identity

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I totally see it. While I don't have your kind of family background, I can relate in other ways. I'm just about five years older than you. I might have a baby face, but actually 51. My journey in the business world, aside from formal education and business school, was shaped largely by the people around me.

Chief Change Officer

#298 Chris Quek: From Inheritance to Identity

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I worked in corporate jobs at global organizations, and the best learning I've ever received wasn't just from corporate training. It was from people. Like you, I learned a lot from those with on-the-job experience, whether it was my bosses, colleagues, or mentors. These are things that aren't digitalized or written in books, but are passed down directly, much like how your father trained you.

Chief Change Officer

#298 Chris Quek: From Inheritance to Identity

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I picked up concepts like business models, revenue structures, and cost management early on. Often before I even knew the formal terms. What really resonated with me was the encouragement and confidence these people gave me before I even believed in myself. They gave me opportunities to try something new and different.

Chief Change Officer

#298 Chris Quek: From Inheritance to Identity

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And that's something I can surely relate to in your experience, even though we come from different family backgrounds.

Chief Change Officer

#298 Chris Quek: From Inheritance to Identity

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It's interesting that you brought up Li Ka-shing because as you were sharing how your father trained you during your childhood, it reminded me of a well-known story about Li Ka-shing himself. For the listeners who may not know who Li Ka-shing is, Originally from Hong Kong, he is the founder of a multi-billion dollar business conglomerate with a global footprint.

Chief Change Officer

#298 Chris Quek: From Inheritance to Identity

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He famously brought his eldest son, Victor Lee, into the boardroom at the age of eight to immerse him in the boardroom dynamics. Clearly, he was preparing him as the heir to the business. Back to you, Chris. Your father obviously had high expectations for you to take over the family business. Yet, you only stayed in China for three days and then headed off to Malaysia.

Chief Change Officer

#298 Chris Quek: From Inheritance to Identity

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This episode focuses on his pursuit of his own identity, his desires, his actions, the why and the how. In the next episode, we'll dive into his current work as a VC investor building up the entrepreneurial ecosystem in Singapore and Southeast Asia. We'll discuss the legacy he hopes to create for his country and the region.

Chief Change Officer

#298 Chris Quek: From Inheritance to Identity

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Where did you find the courage or the guts to make that decision? And can you share more about your e-commerce business in Malaysia? What did you learn during those six years there?

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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Siham thrives in adversity. She describes herself as more than resilient. She is anti-fragile. I see her as someone who has learned over time to turn adversity into an advantage. is not an inborn talent, rather is something nurtured and developed. How? Let's find out. Politics, whether in government or the office, is something that some people are really good at navigating.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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So basically, you're saying that while you work with women from different parts of the world, you found that many of the challenges they face are universal. Yes, there may be local cultural elements or influences.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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But many of these issues across cultural, for example, being judged, whether it's for being married, having children, not having children, being LGBTQ, having long hair, short hair, these judgments aren't limited to women in Belgium, New York, San Francisco, or Hong Kong. They're simply issues that women everywhere face.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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You are helping women from different corners of the world navigate these universal challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. How do I even begin to introduce our first guest from Belgium who has Moroccan roots? Her name is Siham El-Kawakibi.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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I'm curious, what's the persona of the woman leaders you tend to work with? Or those you are most drawn to helping? The reason I raised this question is because, honestly, in my view, when mainstream people talk about women in leadership, it still feels a bit generic, especially before COVID.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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I noticed that mainstream media tended to showcase a certain type of woman leader, someone who might fit into a traditional mode. such as happily married with two or three children, long hair, maybe blonde, maybe blue eye. Essentially, the ideal wife role model in the eyes of men. This image doesn't differ much from the so-called woman's role models of the past.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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But we know that in reality, there's so much diversity in the world of women leaders. Now that we're in 2024 moving into 2025, the world is changing rapidly. So back to my original question, what types of women leaders do you like to work with or would you like to work with more? I believe even within the world of women leaders, we need more diversity.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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Yes, you mentioned the word trust earlier. In the last few interviews with different guests, whether they were coaches, tech innovators, or someone in recruitment, trust has come up as a key theme. As we enter the AI era, where we'll see more and more applications of AI in our daily lives, the importance of humanity with trust as a major component remains crucial.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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Trust is hard to build, hard to find, and once broken, difficult to repair. For you, as a coach and consultant, trust is a key success factor in pursuing and accelerating your agenda to make an impact on women leaders.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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To wrap up our interview, I'd like to ask you to share genuine advice with our listeners, whether they're young women in their 20s or more experienced women in their 40s, 50s, or 60s. You work with women from various backgrounds. So what are your top three pieces of advice for women facing life challenges, feeling lost, or struggling to find direction?

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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Perhaps they might eventually reach out to you for consulting sessions or seek help from a therapist or psychologist. How can they begin to feel more relaxed and take the first steps towards getting unstuck?

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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Some people thrive in it and even seek out more of it. It sounds like you saw Parliament as a stage to make a positive impact on the communities you care about. Your intentions were noble. but the environment made things worse. Not only were you unable to create the impact you wanted, but you also faced various attacks and toxic behavior. The same goes for office environments.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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Yeah, I can truly resonate with a lot of those points. For example, the concept of success has become more distorted since the rise of social media. The glorification of success has only gotten worse with everyone talking up their achievements, making everything seem more glamorous than it really is. But honestly, this projection is not only misleading, it can also be entirely false.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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There's so much happening behind the scenes that people don't show. If you take those projections as truth or benchmarks for your own efforts, you end up losing because the benchmark isn't even real. Instead, you should focus on your own progress. Making progress every day, whether it's learning something new, reading a few pages, taking a short course, or exercising, is empowering.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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You see yourself improving day by day, and that's what matters. Learning is both empowering and an investment. People often talk about helping women become more financially independent, focusing on financial investment. But investing in yourself, learning new skills, earning certificates, or even exploring fields like prompt engineering can be incredibly lucrative.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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It opens up new opportunities that can eventually turn into financial gains. Learning is an investment in yourself. Women around the world have often been bound by certain systems and structures since childhood. Whenever we deviate from those expectations, we face judgment and discouragement. We need more healthy positivity to help us advance, even if it's just bed by bed.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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Many corporate workers might be incredibly smart and capable, but they struggle to climb the corporate ladder. because they either don't play politics, don't play it well, or aren't willing to play it at all. I've been in the corporate world, and I've seen and experienced my share of political maneuvering. I've had my own struggles with mental health due to corporate politics.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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Because as you said, everything compounds over time.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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Yeah.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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Sia, you are being modest. It's your first time as a guest on an English-speaking podcast. And it's also my first time as the host and creator of one. A lot of my guests don't have English as their mother tongue. Neither do I. But we are stepping up and moving forward to make our voices heard. And in a noisy world, that's what really matters. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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That's part of why I decided to become an entrepreneur, a free agent, rather than being bound or controlled by that environment. For many people, whether they are considering a job change, a career shift, or even trying to change the world as an entrepreneur, one key takeaway is to choose your environment and culture carefully. In certain cultures and environments, you can thrive and excel.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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In others, you might struggle. It doesn't mean you are not smart or that your intentions are not good enough. Often, it's the environment and the culture that holds you back, preventing you from achieving what you want to achieve. That's been my experience.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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I know you have your own consulting and coaching practice. You've developed what you call the Women Leaders OS, which stands for Operating System. Can you tell us more about how this approach works? I know it is not a digital system like iOS, the Apple system, but I'm curious to learn more about how this operating system you've designed benefits your target audience, women leaders.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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She is a Moroccan immigrant, a burnout and bankruptcy survivor, a parliamentarian, a champion of diversity and inclusion. She is also the creator of Women Leaders OS and a Women's Leadership Coach. She is all these and more. Beyond these identities, what truly impresses me are the experiences that have shaped these transformations. Some people thrive in politics. others in stability.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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Like I said, we need more women leaders. And we are seeing more of them emerge around the world. My podcast is global, with guests from different parts of the world. And a major part of the audience is in the U.S. But Siham, you are in Belgium, in Europe. And I'm curious about any specific challenges or interesting phenomena related to women leaders in your country or in your culture.

Chief Change Officer

#364 Sihame El Kaouakibi: Burnout, Bankruptcy, and the Beauty of Reinvention—Part Two

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Are there particular difficulties or unique cultural aspects in Belgium or your part of Europe that may differ from those in the US or Asia? I'd love to hear about your observations and experiences.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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In the field of business education, dominated by discussions of numbers, strategies, formulas, and models, all the logical stuff, the concept of love has never surfaced in any curriculum or textbook I've come across. Yet, she bought it into our discussions on angel investing.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Ten years ago, during the summer term of the executive MBA program at Chicago Booth, I had the pleasure of meeting today's guest, Waverly Deutsch.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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It makes you wonder, how does love fit into building a business, advancing a business career, and fulfilling our life's legacy? With that in mind, I've put together a three-part series called Love & Logic, featuring Waverly as our special guest. She will be sharing and exploring from three perspectives how the intricate balance of love and logic shapes our career decisions and life choices.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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While listening to you, I felt like we were having coffee together. Your story had me nodding, laughing, and utterly fascinated. You present this blend of strong analytical thinking with a very human, social side. Considering your career shifts and external pressures you faced, you mentioned some kind of luck or perhaps karma.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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It got me thinking, how aware are you when it comes to making what you call calculated decisions? This ties into our theme of love and logic, the heart and the head. When you reach a critical point in your career path, how much do you lean on your analytical side? I'm not just talking about money or job titles, but evaluating the broader prospects of a position, diving deep into the industry.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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How much of it is a calculated assessment? Or perhaps is it more about a gut feeling that tells you, hey, this is the right move. So do you consider yourself primarily analytical when making career decisions? Or do you tend to go with the flow? Or maybe you have your own unique approach or system for navigating these decisions. How does that work with you?

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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There are two other words that perfectly capture the essence of love and logic. They are heart and head. Can you recall a pivotal moment or situation when you were torn between following your heart or your head? What ultimately guided your decision then?

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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Today's episode zooms in on Waverly's personal journey, the love and logic that have guided her career path and experiences. In our next episode, which is about her being a teacher and expert guide, we'll dive into a major chapter of her career, 22 years at Chicago Bull.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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Growing up, I learned a straight rule. No crying at work is simply unprofessional. That was the norm in all the places I've worked and studied, both in the US and abroad. But let's be real. Whether you are a man or a woman, we are human, and humans have emotions. Crying is simply one way we express those emotions.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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There, she taught and coached a sharply focused group of highly logical talents, all deeply engaged in the passion for innovation, change, and entrepreneurship. From that structured academic environment, she has transitioned to her current role as a coach for a more diverse group of entrepreneurs. In the third part of our series, we'll come full circle and focus back on Waverly herself.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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I believe that as our views on gender roles continue to evolve, it's becoming clear that we also need to rethink our attitudes towards showing emotions in the workplace.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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There's a piece of the love and logic puzzle I haven't talked about much yet. So far, I've discussed following your heart as a standalone element. But our hearts, they are heavily influenced by our peers, the people around us, and the social environment we're in. Take my MBA classmates. For example, among my classmates, I am the outliner.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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Most of them are in finance, CEO, CFO, senior bankers, senior management consultants, managing partner at PE and VC houses. If I had stayed long enough at certain companies, I would have ended up in those roles as well. But I made different choices along the way, guided by both heart and head.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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The reason I bring up my own story at this juncture is that I've noticed many people struggle not just with the emotional versus logical decision-making, also with not seeing role models who reflect their aspirations. There's also often a deep-seated fear of judgment and fear of failure. These fears influence our hearts and ultimately impact our decisions. I'm curious about your experience.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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How much have external factors like peer pressure, societal judgments or even social norms influenced you? You mentioned earlier that you aren't bound by gender norms, but what about other societal expectations? How have you managed to filter out the noise and make your laws of change along your career path?

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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She's now more than a coach. She's an entrepreneur herself, actively building her own new venture. is a fascinating mix of her ever-changing experiences. Good morning, Wayfully. Welcome to my show. Good morning, Vince. I am thrilled to be here. Usually, I kick off our interview with a little introduction about my guest. Today, I'd like to switch things up a bit.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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We begin today's interview by exploring Waverly's personal journey. intricate blend of love and logic that has guided her from her undergraduate days all the way to retirement. To our listeners, I hope today's episode inspired you to integrate your own love and logic in whatever paths you choose to pursue. In our next episode, which is the second part of our three-part series,

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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will dig deep into a significant chapter of Waverly's career, her 22 years at Chicago Booth. There, she taught and coached a selected group of highly logical talents, undergrads, full-time, part-time, and executive MBAs from around the world, all of whom were passionate about innovation, change, and entrepreneurship. Yet, despite their brilliance, these individuals faced their own challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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Waverly has learned to tailor her coaching approach, sometimes offering a bigger dose of love, other times amping up the logic. How exactly did she manage this? Stay tuned. We'll explore that in the next episode. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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I was browsing through the website of your new venture, Wiseheart, and a specific sentence really stood out to me. It said, as a young person, I had an enormous love for the theater and a passion for logic. Love and logic, what a fascinating combination. So Waverly, can you unpack that for us? Tell us, who are you really at the intersection of these two worlds?

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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As you indicated, that was late 70s and early 80s. There must be very, very few females in your computer science class. How did you navigate this deeply man-dominated world?

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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One of, sorry, you're saying one of three or four women in the advanced computer science class. Like how many students were in that class?

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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She taught one of the standout courses in the executive program called Building New Ventures. In just a moment, I'll let Waverly introduce herself. But first, I would like to share a memorable memory that really sets her apart.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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Even when I grew up, I'm younger than you by about 10 years. Tomboy was still a commonly used term in my generation. Don't forget, we're now in June 2024. The month of June is the month of Pride. So we are proud of our identities.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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Throughout my extensive MBA studies at both Yale and Chicago Booth, where I completed the full-time and executive programs respectively, I've sat through countless lectures taught by highly intelligent scholars and well-experienced practitioners. Yet, Waverly is the only professor I've encountered who dared to use the word love in a business school classroom.

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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Teaching has always been your calling. But I was wondering, during this journey from PhD to teaching, there's something called Forrester. I believe you joined this firm and helped it grow from a boutique into a major institution over a couple of years. You joined as employee 20-something, 27, I believe that's what you told me. So with your calling for teaching, with your PhD degree,

Chief Change Officer

#223 Love, Logic, and a Reality Check: Waverly Deutsch on Changing for the Better – Part One

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You could have stayed in the university, building your academic career from assistant professor to associate to a tenure professor, a very well predicted career path. But then what happened in between? We'll talk about Chicago, your teaching career, 22 years teaching careers in Chicago. But before that, let's talk about what happened in the 90s.

Chief Change Officer

#171 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Two

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From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition, to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shares how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In the next episodes, we'll explore the learning required for transformation. Why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skills decking is the future.

Chief Change Officer

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And finally, in part three, we'll tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Buckle up, this one is a ride. Like you said, one of the threats running through your experience is change and strategy changes. You've worked with so many firms and organizations, guiding them through their transformations, so you must have seen countless business cases unfold.

Chief Change Officer

#171 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Two

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I kind of agree or disagree with what you just said. Lifelong learning is about the attitude, in my opinion. Lifelong learning isn't just about acquiring new knowledge. It's about figuring out how you learn best. Some people thrive in classroom settings or in-person workshops, while others prefer self-paced digital formats.

Chief Change Officer

#171 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Two

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The methods vary, but the goal is the same, which is to keep growing, to keep learning. When it comes to skill stacking, I see it as something deeper. you mentioned is about purposefully merging diverse skills to solve complex challenges, and I think you're right. What's often missing isn't the means to learn. We have more access than ever to tools, training, and knowledge.

Chief Change Officer

#171 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Two

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The gap lies in connecting the dots. between those skills and leveraging them in meaningful ways to multiply the impact. In my view, we are living in a tool economy, tool, T-O-O-L. Everything is about the tool, whether it's chat GPT today, Google yesterday, or whatever the next hot thing will be. The mindset is, if you have a problem, there's a tool for that. Need a solution?

Chief Change Officer

#171 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Two

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Just grab a hammer, a screwdriver. What is the problem? Most of the time, those tools are just solving service-level symptoms, not addressing the deeper underlying issues. It's like putting a band-aid on a cup without treating the infection. Sure, the immediate problem looks solved, but the root cause persists, and people end up repeating the same mistakes.

Chief Change Officer

#171 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Two

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I see this pattern a lot, especially among knowledge workers. They buy into the idea of lifelong learning, sign up for courses, pay for certifications, and stack up all these skills. But they don't actually go anywhere with them. Why? Because the key isn't just acquiring skills, it's in connecting them, applying them to real-life scenarios, case by case, and solving problems with them.

Chief Change Officer

#171 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Two

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in an integrated manner. So the missing piece is less about technical skills and more about human skills, what most people call solved skills. Problem solving, critical thinking, emotional intelligence, communication, these are the connective tissue that make skill stacking impactful. Without them, you're just collecting tools in a toolbox. You don't know how to use effectively.

Chief Change Officer

#171 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Two

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That's where I think the future of lifelong learning needs to focus. Not just teaching new skills, but on helping people build the connections between them and apply them in meaningful, impactful ways. It's not about the tools themselves. It's about what you build with them.

Chief Change Officer

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What have you learned from these consulting projects and organization change initiatives that could apply to individual situations? Are there lessons from these business cases that also resonate on a personal level? especially when we face dilemmas or crossroads in our own lives.

Chief Change Officer

#171 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, subscribe. Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#171 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Two

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In part one, the first episode, we'll dive into Colin's fascinating journey as a self-proclaimed change addict turned change guru. Colin's career spans continents, cultures, and industries, seven countries lived in, seven more seconded to, and projects in over 70 nations.

Chief Change Officer

#171 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Two

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I can totally relate to your Canadian example. I've had a similar experience myself. We can chat more about it offline. But eventually, it led to me leaving that company. If I think about it in a more personal context, like within a family, change isn't just about one person. It's a group decision that can lead to challenges too.

Chief Change Officer

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For example, when I used to help younger professionals plan their MBA career paths, many of them would ask me, Vince, should I apply to this school or that school? Should I study in this city or another city? Often, these decisions weren't just about them. They were married, so the decision had to include the spouse. My answer to them was, this isn't just about you.

Chief Change Officer

#171 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Two

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What does your husband or wife think? Have you discussed whether it will mean long distance for two years? Will they move with you? If they do, will they be able to work? If not, what happens then? That's where the tension often starts. One partner wants to change, but the other doesn't, or they see the change differently.

Chief Change Officer

#171 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Two

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It creates conflict, and that's not unlike what happens in a business setting. One stakeholder might push for a big transformation, while others hesitate or resist because the interpretation of change is different. So yes, I think that dynamic applies across contexts, personal or professional.

Chief Change Officer

#171 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Two

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From organizational transformation to personal reinvention, he has mastered the art of embracing change and applying those lessons to life. In this conversation, Colin unpacks his unique perspective on change. How throwing himself into the unknown led to unparalleled growth and insight.

Chief Change Officer

#171 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Two

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Actually, you have so many degrees that people often ask me, Vince, are you collecting degrees? I usually laugh it off and say, no, I have three. And I talk each one very seriously. I don't even bother explaining why I pursued two MBAs anymore. But looking at you, Colin, you have even more. Would you consider yourself a lifelong learner? I imagine you have some strong opinions on that term.

Chief Change Officer

#171 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Two

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A lot of people lean on lifelong learning when they are at a crossroads or want to make a change in their lives. They fall back on education, upskilling, retooling, whatever the buzzword of the day might be. But you've shared some interesting ideas with me about skill stacking and how that might offer a more impactful approach. So what do you think of lifelong learning as a concept?

Chief Change Officer

#171 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This is a three-part series with Colin Selvidge.

Chief Change Officer

#171 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part Two

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How do you see it evolving? And where does skill stacking fit into the equation?

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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Are there lessons from these business cases that also resonate on a personal level, especially when we face dilemmas or crossroads in our own lives?

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition, to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shares how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In the next episodes, we'll explore the learning required for transformation, why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skills decking is the future.

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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And finally, in part three, we'll tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Buckle up. This one is a ride. Colin, finally, I got you to my show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Good morning to you.

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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Just now, Colin unpacked his unique perspective on change. change addict turned change guru. From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shared how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In part two, tomorrow, we'll explore the learning required for transformation.

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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Colin has, I don't even know how many degrees under his belt. Why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skill stacking is the future. And part three for Friday will tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Come back tomorrow and join us. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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Colin is from Canada, the Big North, a very cold place. I used to live in Toronto myself. Colin is in another province, or in America, we call it a state. So Colin, let's start with your story. Who are you, what you're doing now, but also what did you do in the past? Your past, your journey, and your history.

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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This is a three-part series with Colin Selvidge. In part one, the first episode, we'll dive into Colin's fascinating journey as a self-proclaimed change addict turned change guru. Colin's career spans continents, cultures, and industries, seven countries lived in, seven more secunded to, and projects in over 70 nations.

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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In your self-introduction, Two words caught my attention. Change addict and change guru. How do you define these two terms?

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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From organizational transformation to personal reinvention, he has mastered the art of embracing change and applying those lessons to life. In this conversation, Colin unpacks his unique perspective on change. How throwing himself into the unknown led to unparalleled growth and insight.

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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So being a change addict, ideally, would you say you're one of those who puts in a good amount of calculation behind each change? Or is it more like, oh, it's just that feeling? What type are you? Have you ever thought about that?

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#170 Colin Savage: Change Junkie on a Global Tour—Swapping Comfort for Chaos – Part One

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Like you said, one of the threats running through your experience is change and strategy. You've worked with so many firms and organizations, guiding them through their transformations. So you must have seen countless business cases unfold. What have you learned from these consulting projects and organization change initiatives that could apply to individual situations?

Chief Change Officer

#65 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part Three

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My guest, Chris Hare, is a strategic narrative advisor and coach for companies like Amazon and Microsoft, guiding leaders and executives with his approach called Atomic Storytelling. His method breaks down complex stories into their cool, resonant elements. In this three-part series, we'll journey through Chris' experiences in three stages. In the last two days, part one, part two,

Chief Change Officer

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I aimed for a meaningful balance, enough for people to get diverse insights, but not so many that the feedback would become irrelevant. I felt 50 was just right, nor wouldn't have added value if the people were not as closely connected with me.

Chief Change Officer

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Superpower? First of all, most of them mentioned that I am a deep thinker. Words like logical, analytical, and persistent came up frequently. Once I decide to pursue something, They see me as unwavering in following in through. Interestingly, some offered perspectives I had not considered myself.

Chief Change Officer

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For example, Waverly Deutsch, my former professor from Chicago Booth, who is also my guest on the show in season two, if anyone is interested. She commented on my ability to do math and tell stories, which in her words, is a rare combination. I took this as a positive compliment given her unique background. She is a PhD in theater history.

Chief Change Officer

#65 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part Three

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation.

Chief Change Officer

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with an undergrad degree in computer science, combining both artistic and quantitative strengths in her teaching of entrepreneurship and business. Her lens on my skills was influenced by her own experience as someone who bridges the gap between art and science. One takeaway here is that the people you choose to ask for feedback come with their own perspectives.

Chief Change Officer

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The insights into your strengths are inevitably influenced and limited by their backgrounds. That's why selecting a diverse group thoughtfully chosen for their varied experiences is key to gaining a well-rounded understanding of your superpowers.

Chief Change Officer

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Exactly. And that's the key point I want to emphasize. This is precisely why AI cannot replace the human touch. AI has incredible data capacity and can assist in generating a vast amount of content, but it lacks the nuanced understanding that comes from genuine human connection.

Chief Change Officer

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Hallucination issues aside, even when it comes to reading emotions, we still don't have technology that truly reflects the depth of understanding needed. Some advancements are being made in emotion detection, But it's far from capturing the authentic experience of sitting across from someone, reading their body language, responding naturally, and engaging in a meaningful, unscripted conversation.

Chief Change Officer

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That's where the human element remains irreplaceable.

Chief Change Officer

#65 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part Three

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Chris, I really want to thank you for your time today. You've been incredibly generous, actually giving me a full 90 minutes of your time.

Chief Change Officer

#65 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part Three

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard... Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#65 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part Three

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We've explored his expertise in helping businesses craft compelling corporate stories and understand the connection between story and narrative. We've also looked at storytelling for personal transformation as Chris shared some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard or felt. He has also opened up about his own mental health challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#65 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part Three

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Today, part three, he'll introduce tools we can use to develop our own stories and narratives. And here's a personal confession. I told him one of his exercises might just make me cry. I'll also be sharing my own experience with an other exercise, highlighting both its challenges and insights. So let's dive into the final chapter of Chris' story.

Chief Change Officer

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So for those listening who might not have direct access to professional guidance, What can they do to craft and shape their own stories? Whether they are in career transition, facing personal challenges, or just feeling stuck, what would you suggest as essential steps for creating a story that truly resonates with who they are?

Chief Change Officer

#65 The Raw Story Behind the Storyteller: Chris Hare Reveals Secrets of Crafting Stories That Move You — Part Three

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If you've been listening to my show, you know I bring guests from all corners of the world to share their stories. Through these stories, we dive into hindsight, insights, and foresight for you, the progressive-minded listeners who crave change. Whether you're navigating a career shift

Chief Change Officer

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First, let me admit, the movie theater exercise is something I'll definitely want to try. Please do send me the worksheet. I can imagine that if I were in that theater alone, I would likely cry and even though I'm not typically one to shed tears, not even happy ones. But picturing myself in that situation, not so much at retirement, but maybe at the end of my life, it would move me deeply.

Chief Change Officer

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a personal transformation like health challenges or driving change in your organization or community, there's something here for you. Today's episode has a unique twist. I'm interviewing a storytelling expert to share his own story.

Chief Change Officer

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As for the 360-degree feedback, I actually did a version of this a few years ago, not with just three to five people. but with about 50 people across different periods of my life. Some friends from 30 years ago, others from 20 or 10 years back, covering a range of relationships and contexts. I asked each of them to answer, what do you see as my superpower?

Chief Change Officer

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and to share words that came to mind when they thought of me. Each one responded with their unique insights, elaborating on their thoughts. I took notes on everything, gathered the data points, and even created a spreadsheet to track common themes. My Chicago training pushed me to analyze these patterns, and it was fascinating to see the traits that surfaced across the board.

Chief Change Officer

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That exercise gave me meaningful clarity and reinforced aspects of myself I felt aligned with. It was incredibly helpful.

Chief Change Officer

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Another lesson I learned goes back to my days. as an MBA admissions interviewer. You mentioned input and output, and it got me thinking about how MBA and law programs and similar institutions often shape future alumni and leaders. It's not only about the narrative they tell, it's about how they select candidates.

Chief Change Officer

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They choose specific types of people with qualities that maximize the likelihood of success. That's why these schools can point to impressive alumni is by design. Why does this relate to the feedback exercise I did with my 50 friends? because I was equally thoughtful about who I chose. First, I knew they would be willing to give me a solid 30 minutes of their time or even more.

Chief Change Officer

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Second, I selected those who knew me well enough, spending various parts of my life, some friendships going back 30 years, others from the last decade. I intentionally created a diverse pool to get a wide range of viewpoints. Additionally, these friends saw me in different roles and at different times, so they each had unique perspectives on my evolution.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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Siham thrives in adversity. She describes herself as more than resilient. She is anti-fragile. I see her as someone who has learned over time to turn adversity into an advantage. is not an inborn talent, rather is something nurtured and developed. How? Let's find out. Politics, whether in government or the office, is something that some people are really good at navigating.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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So basically, you're saying that while you work with women from different parts of the world, you found that many of the challenges they face are universal. Yes, there may be local cultural elements or influences.

Chief Change Officer

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But many of these issues across cultural, for example, being judged, whether it's for being married, having children, not having children, being LGBTQ, having long hair, short hair, these judgments aren't limited to women in Belgium, New York, San Francisco, or Hong Kong. They're simply issues that women everywhere face.

Chief Change Officer

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You are helping women from different corners of the world navigate these universal challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. How do I even begin to introduce our first guest from Belgium who has Moroccan roots? Her name is Siham El-Kawakibi.

Chief Change Officer

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I'm curious, what's the persona of the woman leaders you tend to work with? Or those you are most drawn to helping? The reason I raised this question is because, honestly, in my view, when mainstream people talk about women in leadership, it still feels a bit generic, especially before COVID.

Chief Change Officer

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I noticed that mainstream media tended to showcase a certain type of woman leader, someone who might fit into a traditional mode. such as happily married with two or three children, long hair, maybe blonde, maybe blue eye. Essentially, the ideal wife role model in the eyes of men. This image doesn't differ much from the so-called woman's role models of the past.

Chief Change Officer

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But we know that in reality, there's so much diversity in the world of women leaders. Now that we're in 2024 moving into 2025, the world is changing rapidly. So back to my original question, what types of women leaders do you like to work with or would you like to work with more? I believe even within the world of women leaders, we need more diversity.

Chief Change Officer

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Yes, you mentioned the word trust earlier. In the last few interviews with different guests, whether they were coaches, tech innovators, or someone in recruitment, trust has come up as a key theme. As we enter the AI era, where we'll see more and more applications of AI in our daily lives, the importance of humanity with trust as a major component remains crucial.

Chief Change Officer

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Trust is hard to build, hard to find, and once broken, difficult to repair. For you, as a coach and consultant, trust is a key success factor in pursuing and accelerating your agenda to make an impact on women leaders.

Chief Change Officer

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To wrap up our interview, I'd like to ask you to share genuine advice with our listeners, whether they're young women in their 20s or more experienced women in their 40s, 50s, or 60s. You work with women from various backgrounds. So what are your top three pieces of advice for women facing life challenges, feeling lost, or struggling to find direction?

Chief Change Officer

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Perhaps they might eventually reach out to you for consulting sessions or seek help from a therapist or psychologist. How can they begin to feel more relaxed and take the first steps towards getting unstuck?

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Some people thrive in it and even seek out more of it. It sounds like you saw Parliament as a stage to make a positive impact on the communities you care about. Your intentions were noble. but the environment made things worse. Not only were you unable to create the impact you wanted, but you also faced various attacks and toxic behavior. The same goes for office environments.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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Yeah, I can truly resonate with a lot of those points. For example, the concept of success has become more distorted since the rise of social media. The glorification of success has only gotten worse with everyone talking up their achievements, making everything seem more glamorous than it really is. But honestly, this projection is not only misleading, it can also be entirely false.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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There's so much happening behind the scenes that people don't show. If you take those projections as truth or benchmarks for your own efforts, you end up losing because the benchmark isn't even real. Instead, you should focus on your own progress. Making progress every day, whether it's learning something new, reading a few pages, taking a short course, or exercising, is empowering.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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You see yourself improving day by day, and that's what matters. Learning is both empowering and an investment. People often talk about helping women become more financially independent, focusing on financial investment. But investing in yourself, learning new skills, earning certificates, or even exploring fields like prompt engineering can be incredibly lucrative.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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It opens up new opportunities that can eventually turn into financial gains. Learning is an investment in yourself. Women around the world have often been bound by certain systems and structures since childhood. Whenever we deviate from those expectations, we face judgment and discouragement. We need more healthy positivity to help us advance, even if it's just bed by bed.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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Many corporate workers might be incredibly smart and capable, but they struggle to climb the corporate ladder. because they either don't play politics, don't play it well, or aren't willing to play it at all. I've been in the corporate world, and I've seen and experienced my share of political maneuvering. I've had my own struggles with mental health due to corporate politics.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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Because as you said, everything compounds over time.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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Sia, you are being modest. It's your first time as a guest on an English-speaking podcast. And it's also my first time as the host and creator of one. A lot of my guests don't have English as their mother tongue. Neither do I. But we are stepping up and moving forward to make our voices heard. And in a noisy world, that's what really matters. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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That's part of why I decided to become an entrepreneur, a free agent, rather than being bound or controlled by that environment. For many people, whether they are considering a job change, a career shift, or even trying to change the world as an entrepreneur, one key takeaway is to choose your environment and culture carefully. In certain cultures and environments, you can thrive and excel.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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In others, you might struggle. It doesn't mean you are not smart or that your intentions are not good enough. Often, it's the environment and the culture that holds you back, preventing you from achieving what you want to achieve. That's been my experience.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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I know you have your own consulting and coaching practice. You've developed what you call the Women Leaders OS, which stands for Operating System. Can you tell us more about how this approach works? I know it is not a digital system like iOS, the Apple system, but I'm curious to learn more about how this operating system you've designed benefits your target audience, women leaders.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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She is a Moroccan immigrant, a burnout and bankruptcy survivor, a parliamentarian, a champion of diversity and inclusion, She is also the creator of Women Leaders OS and a Women's Leadership Coach. She is all of these and more. Beyond these identities, what truly impresses me are the experiences that have shaped these transformations. Some people thrive in politics. others in stability.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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Like I said, we need more women leaders. And we are seeing more of them emerge around the world. My podcast is global, with guests from different parts of the world. And a major part of the audience is in the U.S. But Siham, you are in Belgium, in Europe. And I'm curious about any specific challenges or interesting phenomena related to women leaders in your country or in your culture.

Chief Change Officer

#220 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part Two

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Are there particular difficulties or unique cultural aspects in Belgium or your part of Europe that may differ from those in the US or Asia? I'd love to hear about your observations and experiences.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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Siham thrives in adversity. She describes herself as more than resilient. She is antifragile. I see her as someone who has learned over time to turn adversity into an advantage. is not an inborn talent. Rather, it's something nurtured and developed. How? Let's find out.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. How do I even begin to introduce our first guest from Belgium who has Moroccan roots? Her name is Siham El-Kawakibi.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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Politics, whether in government or the office, is something that some people are really good at navigating. Some people thrive in it and even seek out more of it. It sounds like you saw Parliament as a stage to make a positive impact on the communities you care about. Your intentions were noble, but the environment made things worse.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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Not only were you unable to create the impact you wanted, but you also faced various attacks and toxic behavior. The same goes for office environments. Many corporate workers might be incredibly smart and capable, but they struggle to climb the corporate ladder because they either don't play politics, don't play it well, or aren't willing to play it at all.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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I've been in a corporate world and I've seen and experienced my share of political maneuvering. I've had my own struggles with mental health due to corporate politics. That's part of why I decided to become an entrepreneur, a free agent, rather than being bound or controlled by that environment.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

1377.376

For many people, whether they are considering a job change, a career shift, or even trying to change the world as an entrepreneur, one key takeaway is to choose your environment and culture carefully. In certain cultures and environments, you can thrive and excel. In others, you might struggle. It doesn't mean you are not smart or that your intentions are not good enough.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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Often, it's the environment and the culture that holds you back, preventing you from achieving what you want to achieve. That's been my experience.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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Yes, I'm here. Thank you. Seaham has over 20 years of experience across both the private and public sectors, along with a wealth of personal experiences. That's so much we can talk about today. Before that, Could you give us an overview of your journey through the key milestones of your life and career? Then we'll explore different elements in more detail.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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Yes, we met through common friends and explored common topics, which is one of the reasons why I really wanted to interview you. You have so much knowledge and real experience to share. As I mentioned in the show notes, I don't sell the success stories of my guests. They are obviously successful in their own way and in their own space.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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But what makes this podcast special is the real stories, the lived experiences, which sometimes aren't very pleasant. You mentioned mental health, which is undoubtedly a hot topic in today's world. Honestly, in a world as complex and challenging as ours, who can truly say they are perfectly mentally healthy? We all have to deal with different kinds of stress and burnout. So let's stop here.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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Let's talk about mental health. If I understood you correctly, Is this something that stems from your years in politics? Or does it go further back? Maybe to your childhood, adolescence, or work life in the private sector? Please share more about the challenges you faced.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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She is a Moroccan immigrant, a burnout and bankruptcy survivor, a parliamentarian, a champion of diversity and inclusion. She is also the creator of Women Leaders OS and a Women's Leadership Coach. She is all these and more. Beyond these identities, what truly impresses me are the experiences that have shaped these transformations. Some people thrive in politics. others in stability.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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So far, I've had two guests in season one, both women who are involved in politics. One is a parliamentarian in Singapore, and the other one was a lawyer in Paris before moving to Senegal to get involved in politics and government. Now she's deeply involved in public administration. In their respective capacities, they've made great impacts in their communities.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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I'd like to share a bit from their experiences. For example, the one in Singapore, my classmate from Chicago MBA, mentioned that the election period and its aftermath were the darkest times in her life. She didn't explicitly mention mental health, but she was attacked on social media for her age and so-called inexperience, being the youngest elected parliamentarian at that time.

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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I bring this up because you mentioned that politics is a negative sum game. While I can imagine the satisfaction of being in a position of influence and making an impact on the communities you care about, I can also see how political games could be a major source of mental health challenges. Can you share more about the challenges you faced during that time?

Chief Change Officer

#219 Sihame El Kaouakibi: How to Fail Spectacularly—Then Win Even Bigger – Part One

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And of course, without naming names, just the lessons you learned or specific incidents that led to struggles, perhaps even depression. I think that would be helpful.

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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So, would it be fair to say that the metaverse, Web3, and all these emerging technologies are essentially bridges, tools that help us redefine the employee experience? Not just in one way, but in ways that actually make sense for our lives, our productivity, our outcome, and our well-being? Would you put it that way?

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into the future of work with George Dream. George is a Harvard MBA, a startup founder, and the co-author of the book called Employment is Dead.

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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You mentioned that you and Deborah, the co-founder of WorkStreet Institute, worked on this book together with you. I know there's quite a story behind how this book came to be. Can you share that with us here?

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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How did you get HBR on board with this book? They publish a lot of business books, many from professors, industry leaders, and big-name executives. Of course, Deborah is a leader in her space, and you have your HBS background, but pitching a book idea is never easy. So how did you make the case? What convinced them that this was a book they had to publish? What did that process look like?

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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How long did the whole book process take? Now you are at the finish line with the launch. But of course, that's really just the beginning of a new chapter. From that initial cold call to getting to this point, how long was the journey? What did that timeline look like?

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

Yes, you hear it right. That is a very bold statement. But he's got a story to back it up. Across this three-part series, We'll explore why traditional employment models are failing, how emerging technologies like Web3 and AI are reshaping work, and what companies must do to survive.

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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That makes sense. About 10 years ago, I actually published two books in Chinese, not in English. That's why I never sent you my books. One was with a commercial publisher, and the other was through a university publisher in China. I finished both within two years, and one for Hong Kong, the other distributed at the national level in China.

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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Long story short, I've always appreciated the depth a book brings. At some point, I love to write one in English. Because a book isn't just a quick e-book or 10-page summary. It holds real thought, deep reflection, and analytical depth. These days, sure, a lot of people use AI tools to generate content.

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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Actually, going through the full process like you did, building a platform, engaging with an audience, testing ideas, and then rolling out a fully developed book, that's something I truly admire. For that reason, I spent over an hour diving into your book, And certain chapters really caught my attention, especially the ones on talent, skills, credentials, and degrees.

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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You and I, you are from Harvard. I'm from Yale. Above beneficiaries of brand name degrees. In the traditional playbook, that gave us a clear advantage in securing opportunities. but with emerging technologies, are degrees becoming less and less relevant and useful? In your book, you talk about how employers still claim to degree requirements. It's a tough mindset to break.

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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As someone who has benefited from a prestigious degree, just like I have, what's your take? Do degrees still matter? Or is it time for a new way of thinking, working, and doing?

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

We'll also go behind the scenes of George's book, how a cold call turned into a major publishing deal, and why the old ways of managing people just don't cut it anymore. Whether you are an employee, an employer, or just curious about where work is headed, this series will challenge the way you think.

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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What a story, right? From a cocoa to a book, that's making waves. George is proof that big ideas can come from anywhere. But now, let's get tactical. In the next episode, we'll explore the Work3 framework, how companies can actually implement change instead of just talking about it. If you want to know what's next for work, you won't want to miss this. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#167 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part Two

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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You mentioned that you and Deborah, the co-founder of WorkStreet Institute, worked on this book together with you. I know there's quite a story behind how this book came to be. Can you share that with us here?

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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That's the web for today. We've broken down why traditional employment is crumbling and why companies need to wake up before they lose their best talent. But how do we actually rebuild work for the future? In the next episode, George takes us behind the scenes of his book, Employment Is Dead. from a cold call to a major publishing deal. Don't miss it. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into the future of work with George Dream. George is a Harvard MBA, a startup founder, and the co-author of the book called Employment is Dead.

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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Let's dive right in. First of all, who you really are, what you have done in the past. Then we'll deep dive into different elements of your journey.

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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Yeah, I couldn't agree more about the short-term mindset. I've studied economics, finance, and accounting. And at the end of the day, even with the best intentions, a competent, capable, and purpose-driven CEO, a chief HR officer, or any senior leader still has to balance doing good with making money. They look at the numbers, the bottom line, and all the financial metrics.

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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They ask, how was our accounting income this quarter? What's our cash position? And eventually, they make decisions, sometimes tough ones like cutting jobs. To them, it's ultimately just a number. It feels cold, but that's the reality of how these decisions are made. And yet, in financial reports, you always see the same message. People are our greatest asset.

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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But let's be real, on the financial statements, people are not listed as assets. They are categorized as an expense item on the income statement, not something quantified on the balance sheet that drives revenue and income. So while the message says people first, the decision-making still comes down to numbers. In the end, employees are just HR records sitting in the cloud.

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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Now, I'm not saying this to discredit well-intentioned HR leaders or CEOs. It's just the reality of how businesses operate. Before we get into Wall Street Institute and the solutions you're building for these big challenges, I want to take a step back and talk about your own career journey. You've observed these issues firsthand. And what about your personal experience?

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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When you were fresh off college, studying psychology, working under different leaders and managers, what did that look like for you? Then you went to Harvard for your MBA and learned to be more innovative in your approach. Let's start with your early career. How did your experiences shape the way you see these challenges today and influence the solutions you're working on?

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

Yes, you hear it right. That is a very bold statement. But he's got a story to back it up. Across this three-part series, We'll explore why traditional employment models are failing, how emerging technologies like Web3 and AI are reshaping work, and what companies must do to survive.

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

763.293

You started with psychology, then went to business school, and now you are in Web3. That's quite the journey. I'm curious about that transition, not just in the sense of switching jobs, but more about what shifted in your mindset. A lot of people see psychology as a soft skill field and tech as a hard skill domain. So what was it for you? Was there something about Web3 that really fascinated you?

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

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Something that made you think, this is the technology that can truly change the world for good? What was the trigger that pushed you into this uncharted territory coming from a psychology background?

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

We'll also go behind the scenes of George's book, how a cold call turned into a major publishing deal, and why the old ways of managing people just don't cut it anymore. Whether you are an employee, an employer, or just curious about where work is headed, this series will challenge the way you think. Good morning, Josh. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. It's very early morning for you there.

Chief Change Officer

#166 Work3 Institute Co-Founder Josh Drean: Employment is Dead. Now What? — Part One

986.926

So, would it be fair to say that the metaverse, Web3, and all these emerging technologies are essentially breaches, tools that help us redefine the employee experience? Not just in one way, but in ways that actually make sense for our lives, our productivity, our outcome, and our well-being? Would you put it that way?

Chief Change Officer

#408 Jodi Silverman: When the Kids Grow Up, But You’re Just Getting Started — Part Two

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I really like what you said. Being together, but still being yourself. You can have different interests. Maybe you love ice cream and he doesn't like dessert. That's fine. And that day swap idea is great. You get to rediscover each other. What they like was changed. Even something simple like gift giving becomes more thoughtful because we all change over time. If we do notice that in each other,

Chief Change Officer

#408 Jodi Silverman: When the Kids Grow Up, But You’re Just Getting Started — Part Two

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That's when we start to feel disconnected.

Chief Change Officer

#408 Jodi Silverman: When the Kids Grow Up, But You’re Just Getting Started — Part Two

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Today, you've shared a lot of great insights. from the importance of togetherness and self to ideas like the day's walk and a dimmer approach to identity change. I really like that one. Slowly refocusing on yourself over time so it doesn't feel like a sudden loss when your kids leave home. You also reminded us that being a mom never ends.

Chief Change Officer

#408 Jodi Silverman: When the Kids Grow Up, But You’re Just Getting Started — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Jodi Silverman, founder of the Moms Who Dare community and someone who knows what it's like to face a totally quiet house and wonder what comes next.

Chief Change Officer

#408 Jodi Silverman: When the Kids Grow Up, But You’re Just Getting Started — Part Two

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The role evolves from caretaker to advisor, but the connection remains. And as you said, we don't need to be their best friends. We guide, we let go, and we keep building a life of our own. So if there's a parent listening right now, maybe still feeling down, stuck, or overwhelmed by the emptiness, what would you say to them? What's one thing they can do to start moving forward again?

Chief Change Officer

#408 Jodi Silverman: When the Kids Grow Up, But You’re Just Getting Started — Part Two

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So far, among the women you've connected with, what are some of the common challenges they face? And with those challenges in mind, what kinds of solutions have you seen, either from the group or ones you've helped them discover?

Chief Change Officer

#408 Jodi Silverman: When the Kids Grow Up, But You’re Just Getting Started — Part Two

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And that's the end for our two-part series on Jodi Silverman. Jodi's journey is a reminder that letting go of one identity isn't the end. It's an opening. Whether you are a parent, partner, or just someone trying to figure out what's next, her DARE method is a good place to start. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#408 Jodi Silverman: When the Kids Grow Up, But You’re Just Getting Started — Part Two

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#408 Jodi Silverman: When the Kids Grow Up, But You’re Just Getting Started — Part Two

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This process isn't easy. Like you said, it's not like flipping a switch. It's more like turning a dimmer. The change happens gradually, so it helps to prepare for it step by step, stage by stage. Maybe that means adjusting small habits every day or every month. That way, when the day actually comes, when they really leave for college or move out. You are more ready for it.

Chief Change Officer

#408 Jodi Silverman: When the Kids Grow Up, But You’re Just Getting Started — Part Two

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The empty nest experience isn't just something moms go through, dads feel it too. So I'm curious, how did your husband handle it? What was his reaction like? How did he respond to the shift at home?

Chief Change Officer

#408 Jodi Silverman: When the Kids Grow Up, But You’re Just Getting Started — Part Two

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She built a print business, raised a family, and then realized it was time to find something that lit her up again. In this two-part series, we talk about letting go of old roles, parenting when you are no longer the fixer, and why your next chapter doesn't have to look like your last one. Jodi's story is honest, warm, and refreshingly real. Let's get into it.

Chief Change Officer

#408 Jodi Silverman: When the Kids Grow Up, But You’re Just Getting Started — Part Two

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I think in general, just speaking broadly, men tend to be less, outwardly, sentimental. Part of that comes from how society has shaped us Across cultures, men are expected to be the strong ones, the calm ones. I still remember being told as a kid, boys shouldn't cry. Well, it was okay for girls, which doesn't make any sense. We're all human. We have sentiments. We have feelings.

Chief Change Officer

#408 Jodi Silverman: When the Kids Grow Up, But You’re Just Getting Started — Part Two

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So I think for many fathers, even if they feel the sadness intrinsically, deeply, they may not show it. Maybe they shed tears in private, but that conditioning runs deep and it definitely shapes how they process things like the empty nest stage.

Chief Change Officer

#408 Jodi Silverman: When the Kids Grow Up, But You’re Just Getting Started — Part Two

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So quick side story. I was chatting with another guest recently. His father and both his kids had left home. We were not even talking about family at first, more about leadership and career stuff, but somehow this topic came up. And what he shared was interesting.

Chief Change Officer

#408 Jodi Silverman: When the Kids Grow Up, But You’re Just Getting Started — Part Two

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He said after the kids left, he and his wife decided not to just go back to us as a couple, but instead they each returned to their individual selves. They gave each other space, meaning living under the same roof, but doing the things they loved independently. He said over the past 20 something years, a lot of that got put aside for parenting. Now they are picking it back up again.

Chief Change Officer

#408 Jodi Silverman: When the Kids Grow Up, But You’re Just Getting Started — Part Two

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And for them, it works. Have you seen that happen in your own experience? either in your family or with others in your community? And would you say that's a good thing?

Chief Change Officer

#90 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part One

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When you look back at these examples where you acted as the advisor and matchmaker, helping them figure out the plans and goals, What are the three qualities that stand out in these successful individuals? These qualities could be skill, mindsets, psychological traits, or something related to the sports they play.

Chief Change Officer

#90 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part One

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So I have great respect for franchising as a business model that can positively transform lives. Let's discover how James has used franchising for the greater good for both athletes and everyday people. Good morning, James. How are you doing today?

Chief Change Officer

#90 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part One

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Can you name some key qualities that are common and contrable to success in franchising for these athletes?

Chief Change Officer

#90 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, subscribe. Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#90 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part One

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James joins us in a very timely moment. As we speak, this is the second week of the Olympic Games. Today, we are talking about sports, especially the lives of athletes. Before we dive into that, I'll let James introduce himself, share his background, his history, and his career path.

Chief Change Officer

#90 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part One

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Then we'll jump right into our discussion on Netflix, on business, on franchises, and how all these things link together.

Chief Change Officer

#90 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part One

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So when exactly did you start this franchise consulting business?

Chief Change Officer

#90 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part One

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So around the time COVID started, what was the situation for you in terms of building your business? It sounds like you had gained trust from some athlete and entered their circle, building confidence. But then we faced this lifetime crisis, so much uncertainty. As an entrepreneur, how did you navigate the landscape? And eventually, how did you get through it and return to normal?

Chief Change Officer

#90 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part One

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James runs a unique franchise consulting business, primarily serving retired athletes from the NBA and NFL who are starting new chapters in their lives as franchisees. He also helps regular people with their franchise businesses. James believes that using his expertise in franchising to change lives and livelihoods of families and future generations is a dream come true endeavor.

Chief Change Officer

#90 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part One

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Yeah, we'll definitely touch upon the idea of regular people getting involved in the franchise business, especially with all the changes in the job market. But before we get into that, let's go back to the sports world and the athletes. I remember you've mentioned before, both in our conversations and on social media,

Chief Change Officer

#90 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part One

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that there are many parallels between the sports business and franchising in terms of generating revenue streams. Could you explain how that works? How do sports franchises compare to regular franchising?

Chief Change Officer

#90 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part One

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So it sounds like you are saying that the way franchising is set up and run is similar to the environment in which athletes are trained. Following rules, knowing the rules, and so on. But what about the cost and revenue structure and all those other business aspects?

Chief Change Officer

#90 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part One

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When you invest in or get involved in a business, you always consider the business model, revenue, costs, hiring, marketing, et cetera. Do you see similarities or parallels in the business world that apply to the sports world? In other words, does the environment athletes are trained in make it easier for them to transition into the business world?

Chief Change Officer

#90 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today at our studio, We welcome James Hilofsky from Riverside in Southern California.

Chief Change Officer

#90 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part One

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I haven't been a franchisee or franchisor myself, but I do have experience with the franchise business. Many years ago, when my parents immigrated to Canada with zero local experience and connections, they ventured into franchising to make a living. Despite the hardships, using franchising as a means to fulfill the dream of becoming immersed and settled in the community was life-changing.

Chief Change Officer

#90 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part One

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Can you share some successful examples of clients you've worked with? You can name names if it's okay, or just tell us about the factors and elements that help these athletes transition well into their businesses. How did the process unfold and what was the eventual outcome?

Chief Change Officer

#89 Wayland Lum: From Corporate Comfort to Purposeful Leadership

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Second, the eight principles of modern leadership he creates for his leadership clients. Third, his vision for human and AI coaching partnerships. Let's get started. Wayland, welcome to our show. Finally, I got you on the call with me.

Chief Change Officer

#89 Wayland Lum: From Corporate Comfort to Purposeful Leadership

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Wow. As I was listening to you, two things really jumped out at me. First, you hit on this idea that leadership is a choice. that actually takes me back to my days at Chicago Booth. There was this professor, Linda Ginzel, who used to drill that idea into our heads constantly. Leadership is a choice, she would say.

Chief Change Officer

#89 Wayland Lum: From Corporate Comfort to Purposeful Leadership

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And hearing what you talk, it's clear that idea really lines up with what you're describing. The other thing that struck me was your take on fear and courage. It reminds me of this animated movie, Inside Out. Have you seen it yourselves? They just released the sequel. The movie is all about human emotion. And there's this interesting dynamic between joy and sadness in the movie.

Chief Change Officer

#89 Wayland Lum: From Corporate Comfort to Purposeful Leadership

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At first, they seem like totally opposites, right? But as the story unfolds, you start to see how they're actually connected. The big lesson is that you can't really appreciate joy if you've never experienced sadness. I see a similar principle in what you were saying about fear and courage. They are not as separate as we might think.

Chief Change Officer

#89 Wayland Lum: From Corporate Comfort to Purposeful Leadership

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If my memory serves me right, last time we met in person, it was in London. And last time we went to Texas, it was before COVID for South by Southwest. Time flies, yet I'm happy that we've kept in contact, we've reunited at some point. And now you come to my show to share your wisdom and insights with the audience. Thank you so much. How are you doing?

Chief Change Officer

#89 Wayland Lum: From Corporate Comfort to Purposeful Leadership

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They are two sides of the same coin, each one giving meaning to the other. Does this resonate with what you're getting at?

Chief Change Officer

#89 Wayland Lum: From Corporate Comfort to Purposeful Leadership

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Wayland has left us so much to reflect on and explore. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#89 Wayland Lum: From Corporate Comfort to Purposeful Leadership

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Wei-Lan, let's start with your history. Your career in HR has been nothing short of remarkable. Back in college, you studied industrial and organizational psychology. Then after graduation, you've worked at some of the biggest and most influential institutions in the world, including the highest value company of the present day, NVIDIA. a global organizational consulting firm, CoinFerry.

Chief Change Officer

#89 Wayland Lum: From Corporate Comfort to Purposeful Leadership

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You've even spent eight years in Chicago and London, shaping the careers of MBA students at the top one business school, Chicago Booth. Now you're in Texas running your own leadership practice. Can you walk us through your career evolution?

Chief Change Officer

#89 Wayland Lum: From Corporate Comfort to Purposeful Leadership

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You've taken the leap from these large prestigious organizations to running your own leadership practice. Many people will shine away from that, sticking to their comfort zone, the stable paycheck, and the prestige of a big corporate name and a nice business card. But you did not. What was the critical aha moment that led you down this path of building your own practice?

Chief Change Officer

#89 Wayland Lum: From Corporate Comfort to Purposeful Leadership

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Was there a specific experience that made you think, this is it. I just need to do this. And once you made that decision, how did the transition actually play out?

Chief Change Officer

#89 Wayland Lum: From Corporate Comfort to Purposeful Leadership

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Back in college, he studied industrial and organizational psychology. Then after graduation, he worked at some of the biggest and most influential institutions in the world, including the highest valued company of the present day, Nvidia. and a global organizational consulting firm, CoinFerry.

Chief Change Officer

#89 Wayland Lum: From Corporate Comfort to Purposeful Leadership

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I am 200% agreeable with your choice in walking the walk and talking the talk. In a world where a lot of people just talk, a lot of times they will talk very, very loud without much substance at all. Walking the walk and talking the talk becomes very precious and courageous. Unfortunately, it is also something that is silenced by the noise in the world. But that's what makes a true leader.

Chief Change Officer

#89 Wayland Lum: From Corporate Comfort to Purposeful Leadership

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You are a coach, yet I'm curious, have you ever been on the other side of the coaching relationship? What was it like being coached and how has that experience shaped your approach with your own clients today?

Chief Change Officer

#89 Wayland Lum: From Corporate Comfort to Purposeful Leadership

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on your LinkedIn profile, you have this statement. We develop modern leaders to face the biggest business challenges. Speaking of leaders, who are the people you typically work with? Can you paint a picture for our listeners of the kinds of leaders you coach?

Chief Change Officer

#89 Wayland Lum: From Corporate Comfort to Purposeful Leadership

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He also spent eight years in Chicago and London at Chicago Booth School of Business, helping MBA students shape their career futures. Now he's in Texas running his own leadership practice. On this show, we'll explore three areas of interest. First, his career evolution from big corporations to consulting to business school and private practice.

Chief Change Officer

#89 Wayland Lum: From Corporate Comfort to Purposeful Leadership

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You know, we hear the term modern leadership thrown around a lot these days. I was wondering, what does that actually mean to you? How would you define modern in the context of leadership?

Chief Change Officer

#89 Wayland Lum: From Corporate Comfort to Purposeful Leadership

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is from Austin, Texas, in the United States. Wayland Blum. His career in HR has nothing short of remarkable.

Chief Change Officer

#89 Wayland Lum: From Corporate Comfort to Purposeful Leadership

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Yes, your eight principles of modern leadership. I read them all before our call today. I'm so impressed. For example, one of those is nature as majestic teacher. You're right. Nature serves as a timeless source of wisdom. Wisdom is both ancient and modern. Here's another one. Embrace life's stages and seasons. Every person is born, lives, and dies. We have seasons in life.

Chief Change Officer

#89 Wayland Lum: From Corporate Comfort to Purposeful Leadership

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Spring, summer, fall and winter. On this show, unfortunately, we can't go through all of those principles in details. But could we explore those a bit? Maybe you could share some real-world examples or stories that illustrate them that you use to help your clients become a modern leader to face, to embrace, and to master the biggest challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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He's the author of Living a Values-Based Life and the creator of the leadership model called Excellent Decisions. In this two-part series, we'll dive into what values really mean, why they matter for leading fulfilling careers and lives, and why figuring out our values can be challenging. We'll also explore how to make our values visible and sustainable in a world that's constantly changing.

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. A few years ago, I joined a growing venture as the chief people officer. It lasted just six weeks.

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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Dust Free? As in D-U-S-T Dust Free?

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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If values are so transformative and essential in shaping behavior and driving success, why do you think most people are unaware of their own values? Is it because they haven't taken the time to reflect? Or is it something deeper, like societal distractions, external pressures, or even a lack of understanding about how to identify values in the very first place?

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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I'd love to hear your perspective on this.

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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If you feel stuck in your current workplace, it's not necessarily your fault. Often, it's just a misalignment of values. Don't bend your values to fit in. Instead, find a place in a tribe whose values resonate with yours. That's where true happiness and success lie. Let's dive in. Robert, I'm really excited to dive into the ideas behind your book, not just the content, but also the why behind it.

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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Absolutely. You've touched on something so critical. Figuring out our values is challenging because, as you said, we've been absorbing others' expectations, whether from parents, schools, peers, or society, like a sponge for years. And when we don't consciously question or explore those imposed values, we can feel stuck or out of place without even understanding why.

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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In the workplace, this disconnect often manifests as frustration, disengagement, or being labeled as not a team player. But as you pointed out, is rarely about competence or work ethics. It's about a values mismatch.

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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If we take the time to understand our core values, it not only helps us find better alignment with a company or a team, but also enables us to navigate the environment more strategically we can identify where things resonate and where they don't, which teams and leaders share a similar outlook, and how to bridge gaps when values diverge.

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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This awareness gives us clarity on how to behave, communicate, and even set boundaries, thereby reducing stress and improving fulfillment. Wouldn't you agree?

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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Just now, Robert shared with us what values really mean, why they matter for leading fulfilling careers and lives, and why figuring out our values can be challenging. In part two, we'll explore how to make our values more visible and sustainable in a world that is constantly changing and noisy. Come back and join us tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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What's the story behind this calling to write a book about value? Before we get there, I'd love to hear about your journey leading up to who you are today and the work you do. Which have been shaped by your past, your experiences, your highs, your lows, and your challenges? What moments or turning points in your life that brought you to this very stage?

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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By your own definition, what exactly are values?

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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It's such an insightful point. Feeling like we're constantly fulfilling someone else's agenda that don't align with our own goals or values. It is easy to get lost in this sea, isn't it? Values, like you mentioned, can feel like abstract concepts until we truly define them in our lives. Take honesty, for example. It's a value that sounds universal, but how we live it might differ vastly.

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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Robert, I'd love for you to share some specific values you've examined or highlighted in your work Maybe ones that stood out or even surprised you in the importance. Walk us through a couple and ideas behind them. How do they resonate in a world where we often feel disconnected from what really matters?

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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To that CEO, I may have seemed incompetent, but I knew exactly why I had to leave so quickly. It was a major clash of values. I believe in being true and ethical in both words and deeds, while he thrived on a man-made facade of showmanship and hypocrisy. Knowing my values made the decision clear. This experience ties directly to today's guest. Robert Mercier.

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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You mentioned that one driving force behind publishing your book was seeing how powerful it is when people figure out the values, align the behaviors with them, and act on them. The results, as you've said, can be extraordinary. Could you share some examples from your coaching experiences without naming names, of course, that highlight this transformation.

Chief Change Officer

#273 Robert MacPhee: Robert MacPhee: Clarity, Chicken Soup, and a Midlife U-Turn — Part One

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Stories where someone identified their core values, made changes to align with them, and saw incredible results. I think those examples could inspire and show us what's possible when we live in alignment with our values.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Erin Deal, founder and CEO of Improve It, a company that uses improv to help teams grow and thrive. Like me, she's also a top podcast host.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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Honestly, I think 80-90% of my thoughts on any given day being negative. It's just the way our minds work sometimes, especially when uncertainty is evolved. When we think about the future, we tend to naturally default to worst-case scenarios, even when, more often than not,

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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things turn out far less catastrophic than we imagined yet those negative thoughts can feel overwhelming very loud disruptive and hard to ignore personally i have to deal with that noise every single day i hear it but i remind myself to focus to move forward despite the chatted That's why I really value your advice.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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It's practical and it's something I know I can apply right away to keep that noise in check.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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Just a couple of weeks ago, I released two episodes with a guest who wrote a book called Generosity Wins. He's a seasoned CEO who talks about how actions and mindset of generosity not only enrich others, but also create greatest success in life and career.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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One powerful idea he shared was how a single generous action creates a ripple effect, encouraging others to replicate it, and in turn, making the world a little better. Of course, we can't measure the full impact. There's no way to track every ripple, but the concept is the same as what you were saying. When we experience joy or positivity in our lives, we have the chance to pass it on.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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In his example, even something as simple as a smile can spark change. Smiling in a stranger, a colleague, or a friend might seem trivial, but it can create a moment of positivity that ripples outward. It's a reminder that small actions often have the biggest impact.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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Not so much the workshops you facilitate or the lessons you teach, but your personal journey. How you've dealt with, navigated, and grown from failure over time. If you like, feel free to share specific stories and give us an overview of your journey with failure. Either way works.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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I haven't read your book yet, but failure as a concept resonates deeply. Just before this, I was interviewing another guest and we talked about transitions, not just career changes, but life-changing events. In her case, two years ago, she survived a severe car accident that left her paralyzed.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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She shared how she endured the physical and mental pain, learned to walk again, rebuilt her coaching business, and even started a podcast within just two years. Coincidentally, your experiences also highlight how resilience and failure intertwine. I call this lifting human intelligence. That is the ability to reflect deeply on who we are and transform setbacks into meaningful insights.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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From a young age, Erin dreamed of becoming a talk show host. Why did she choose that path? And how did her journey lead her to combine improv and business? I told Erin, you are in the business of joy. But beyond joy, we also talked about failure. Erin calls herself a failfluencer. a blend of failure and influence.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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And while these three words like fill, learn, grow may sound simple on the surface. Developing that level of clarity through real experience is far from easy. What stands out is not just the lesson itself, but the process of sustaining pain, making sense of it, and transforming it into a systematic approach others can understand and apply

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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The pain itself is real and unfortunate, but it often opens doors to growth. As I told my other guest, failure, if managed well, can become one of the greatest opportunities for transformation.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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Sure. I think that's a great way to wipe things up. I always discourage hard selling on this show. But this isn't about that. It's about sharing the lessons you've distilled from your real, sometimes painful, life experiences. Lessons that listeners can take away and apply right now. So as closing thought, could you share a method or approach from your work that anyone can try?

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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Some say practical, educational, not just inspirational, that could help listeners facing their own dilemmas, whether they're in career transition, dealing with personal challenges, or simply feeling stuck. What's one step or exercise they could use to figure themselves out and take that first step forward?

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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I would say definitely over 50. So should be between 80 to 90%.

Chief Change Officer

#272 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part Two

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This two-part series dives into her unique approach to joy, failure, growth, and learning. No more waiting. Let's get started. I understand one of your key workshops focuses on failure, and you even coined the term Belfluencers, a blend of failure and influencers. I'd love to dive into this topic, but from a personal perspective, could you share your own experiences with failure?

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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This two-part series dives into her unique approach to joy, failure, growth, and learning. No more waiting. Let's get started. Welcome, Erin. Good morning to you. Where are you exactly?

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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I understand one of your key workshops focuses on failure, and you even coined the term Vellfluencers, a blend of failure and influencers. I'd love to dive into this topic, but from a personal perspective, could you share your own experiences with failure? Not so much the workshops you facilitate or the lessons you teach, but your personal journey.

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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How you've dealt with, navigated, and grown from failure over time. If you like, feel free to share specific stories and give us an overview of your journey with failure. Either way works.

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Erin Deal, founder and CEO of Improved, a company that uses improv to help teams grow and thrive. Like me, she's also a top podcast host.

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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Tomorrow in part two, Erin will continue her story of failure. And she comes up with a magical way of navigating and rising above the failure experience. She called this method move on. Come back tomorrow and learn how to move on. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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You mentioned as a teenager, you were determined to become a talk show host. I find that intriguing. Honestly, most people in their teens or even in college don't really know what they want to do, let alone something as specific as hosting a talk show. I mean, when I tell people I set my sights on getting into business school and earning an MBA at age 15, they often say, seriously? At 15?

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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It seems so young to have such a focused goal. But back to you, why talk show host? I imagine some might dream of being a news anchor or getting into show business. But for you, what was it about talk show hosting that drew you in? Especially back then, before podcasts even existed, what was the story behind that ambition?

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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So you're essentially in the business of joy. That's it. The short form. not keynote speaker, not founder or CEO. If someone asks you for your elevator pitch, this should be the first sentence out of your mouth. Hey, I'm in the business of joy. Thank you, Vince. Yes. Let's say we're at a party. I introduce myself to you. Hey, I'm Vince. You reply, I'm Erin. Nice to meet you.

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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Then I ask, what business are you in? And you hit me with, oh, I'm in the business of joy. Instant curiosity triggered. Naturally, I would say, oh, tell me more about that. is such a great icebreaker.

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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So no problem quoting that. I'm in the business of Joyd, and hey, I got it on record now. I promise I won't charge you for copyright yet. But seriously, something else fascinating from history is your first client. You mentioned you tried things out with United Airlines, UA, and eventually they pay you and everything took off from there. So what was that initial experiment with United like?

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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What exactly did you do? I mean, Today, your business, Business Improv, is this successful franchise. But let's rewind to the beginning. What was iPhone 1.0 version of your business? What did it look like back then?

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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From a young age, Erin dreamed of becoming a talk show host. Why did she choose that path? And how did her journey lead her to combine improv and business? I told Erin, you are in the business of joy. But beyond joy, we also talked about failure. Erin calls herself a failfluencer. a blend of failure and influence.

Chief Change Officer

#271 Erin Diehl: Talk Show Dreams, Improv Realities — Part One

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What are your key performance indicators? How do you measure success in your business? And just as importantly, how do you identify areas for improvement?

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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I aimed for a meaningful balance, enough for people to get diverse insights, but not so many that the feedback would become irrelevant. I felt 50 was just right, nor wouldn't have added value if the people were not as closely connected with me.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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Superpower? First of all, most of them mentioned that I am a deep thinker. Words like logical, analytical, and persistent came up frequently. Once I decide to pursue something, They see me as unwavering in following in through. Interestingly, some offered perspectives I had not considered myself.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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For example, Waverly Dorch, my former professor from Chicago, who is also my guest on the show in season two, if anyone is interested. She commented on my ability to do math and tell stories, which, in her words, is a rare combination. I took this as a positive compliment given her unique background. She is a Ph.D. in theater history.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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with an undergrad degree in computer science, combining both artistic and quantitative strengths in her teaching of entrepreneurship and business. Her lens on my skills was influenced by her own experience as someone who bridges the gap between art and science. One takeaway here is that the people you choose to ask for feedback come with their own perspectives.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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The insights into your strengths are inevitably influenced and limited by their backgrounds. That's why selecting a diverse group thoughtfully chosen for their varied experiences is key to gaining a well-rounded understanding of your superpowers.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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Exactly. And that's the key point I want to emphasize. This is precisely why AI cannot replace the human touch. AI has incredible data capacity and can assist in generating a vast amount of content, but it lacks the nuanced understanding that comes from genuine human connection.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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In this three-part series, we'll journey through Chris' experiences in three stages. In the last two days, part one, part two, We've explored his expertise in helping businesses craft compelling corporate stories and understand the connection between story and narrative.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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Hallucination issues aside, even when it comes to reading emotions, we still don't have technology that truly reflects the depth of understanding needed. Some advancements are being made in emotion detection, But it's far from capturing the authentic experience of sitting across from someone, reading their body language, responding naturally, and engaging in a meaningful, unscripted conversation.

Chief Change Officer

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That's where the human element remains irreplaceable.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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Chris, I really want to thank you for your time today. You've been incredibly generous, actually giving me a full 90 minutes of your time.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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We've also looked at storytelling for personal transformation as Chris shared some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard or felt. He has also opened up about his own mental health challenges. Today, part three, he'll introduce tools we can use to develop our own stories and narratives. And here's a personal confession. I told him one of his exercises might just make me cry.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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I'll also be sharing my own experience with another exercise, highlighting both its challenges and insights. So let's dive into the final chapter of Chris' story. So for those listening who might not have direct access to professional guidance What can they do to craft and shape their own stories?

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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Whether they are in career transition, facing personal challenges, or just feeling stuck, what would you suggest as essential steps for creating a story that truly resonates with who they are?

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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Through these stories, we dive into hindsight, insights, and foresight for you, the progressive-minded listeners who crave change. Whether you're navigating a career shift a personal transformation like health challenges or driving change in your organization or community, there's something here for you. Today's episode has a unique twist.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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First, let me admit, the movie theater exercise is something I'll definitely want to try. Please do send me the worksheet. I can imagine that if I were in that theater alone, I would likely cry even though I'm not typically one to shed tears, not even happy ones. But picturing myself in that situation, not so much at retirement, but maybe at the end of my life, it would move me deeply.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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As for the 360-degree feedback, I actually did a version of this a few years ago, not with just three to five people, but with about 50 people across different periods of my life. Some friends from 30 years ago, others from 20 or 10 years back, covering a range of relationships and contexts. I asked each of them to answer, what do you see as my superpower?

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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and to share words that came to mind when they thought of me. Each one responded with their unique insights, elaborating on their thoughts. I took notes on everything, gathered the data points, and even created a spreadsheet to track common themes. My Chicago training pushed me to analyze these patterns, and it was fascinating to see the traits that surfaced across the board.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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That exercise gave me meaningful clarity and reinforced aspects of myself I felt aligned with. It was incredibly helpful.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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I'm interviewing a storytelling expert to share his own story. My guest, Chris Hare, is a strategic narrative advisor and coach for companies like Amazon and Microsoft, guiding leaders and executives with his approach called Atomic Storytelling. His method breaks down complex stories into their cool, resonant elements.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. If you've been listening to my show, you know I bring guests from all corners of the world to share their stories.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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Another lesson I learned goes back to my days. as an MBA admissions interviewer. You mentioned input and output, and it got me thinking about how MBA and law programs and similar institutions often shape future alumni and leaders. It's not only about the narrative they tell, it's about how they select candidates.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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They choose specific types of people with qualities that maximize the likelihood of success. That's why these schools can point to impressive alumni is by design. Why does this relate to the feedback exercise I did with my 50 friends? Because I was equally thoughtful about who I chose. First, I knew they would be willing to give me a solid 30 minutes of their time or even more.

Chief Change Officer

#155 From Buzzwords to Real Words: Chris Hare on Mastering Atomic Storytelling — Part Three

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Second, I selected those who knew me well enough, spending various parts of my life, some friendships going back 30 years, others from the last decade. I intentionally created a diverse pool to get a wide range of viewpoints. Additionally, these friends saw me in different roles and at different times, so they each had unique perspectives on my evolution.

Chief Change Officer

#401 Helen Hanison: Success Isn’t Always Success — Part One

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was the reason you wrote the book because it's one of the most effective and cost-effective ways to reach a wider audience? Did you see it as a way to scale your message and help more people beyond one-on-one coaching?

Chief Change Officer

#401 Helen Hanison: Success Isn’t Always Success — Part One

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Helen, good morning. Welcome to our show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#401 Helen Hanison: Success Isn’t Always Success — Part One

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Let's start with your story. You've gone through quite a transformation yourself, from public relations to branding and now coaching with a focus on career. We'll dive into the why, the how, and everything in between.

Chief Change Officer

#401 Helen Hanison: Success Isn’t Always Success — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. What happens when your shiny successful career starts to feel like a trap? Helen Henderson has the answer. She went from board level PR executive to career coach.

Chief Change Officer

#401 Helen Hanison: Success Isn’t Always Success — Part One

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before we dive deeper into the book itself. You mentioned earlier that you had already created courses and that eventually led you to turn those ideas into a book. It sounded like a natural progression. But speaking from experience, I published two books myself about 10 years ago. Even with a publisher and all the content in hand, it was still a huge undertaking.

Chief Change Officer

#401 Helen Hanison: Success Isn’t Always Success — Part One

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Honestly, one of the most challenging things I've done, not just in terms of writing, but everything else around it. How would you describe your experience writing this book? Did it flow smoothly? Or were there unexpected challenges that first-time authors should be aware of?

Chief Change Officer

#401 Helen Hanison: Success Isn’t Always Success — Part One

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Let's dig into the boat now. You structure it into three acts. Act one, alignment. Act two, career redesign. And act three, transformation. First, why did you choose these three as the core structure? Why start with alignment? Why follow that with career redesign and then end with transformation?

Chief Change Officer

#401 Helen Hanison: Success Isn’t Always Success — Part One

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And second, for each of these acts, what are the key takeaways or core messages you would want readers to walk away with?

Chief Change Officer

#401 Helen Hanison: Success Isn’t Always Success — Part One

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That's it for part one. Helen's journey from global boardroom to career coach showed us that success without alignment just doesn't stick. But how do you actually get unstuck? In part two, Helen walked us through her framework for career change. From the three X of redesign to the power of a whole map, It's practical, honest, and full of aha moments. Don't miss it.

Chief Change Officer

#401 Helen Hanison: Success Isn’t Always Success — Part One

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#401 Helen Hanison: Success Isn’t Always Success — Part One

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You mentioned spending 20 years in public relations. I'm curious, why did you choose that path back then, right off college? It was seen as a glamorous, traditional career. What was going on in your life at the time that led you to it?

Chief Change Officer

#401 Helen Hanison: Success Isn’t Always Success — Part One

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I was thinking about your journey in connection with your book. The subtitle talks about building a purposeful career. And it got me wondering, back in your PR days, were you already consciously searching for that sense of purpose? Or is it more something that came into focus later as you gained more experience and perspective over time?

Chief Change Officer

#401 Helen Hanison: Success Isn’t Always Success — Part One

after realizing that the ladder she was climbing was leaning on the wrong wall. In this two-part series, Helen shares how she hit pause, got unstuck, and built a career that actually fits. We'll talk about career detour, tough choices, and why midlife isn't a crisis. is a chance to redesign. If your job looks great on paper, but feels like sandpaper, this one is for you. Let's get into it.

Chief Change Officer

#401 Helen Hanison: Success Isn’t Always Success — Part One

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You used the phrase seduced by the success markers. And I think that is so relatable because sometimes people might actually feel stuck in their own version of success. And even though it looks good on the outside, that stuckness doesn't feel good on the inside. Before we dive into your approach and how you help others, I want to go back to your own story.

Chief Change Officer

#401 Helen Hanison: Success Isn’t Always Success — Part One

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After spending 20 years in public relations, what triggered your move? What was going through your mind at the time that led you to make that transition?

Chief Change Officer

#401 Helen Hanison: Success Isn’t Always Success — Part One

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We might have a good degree of self-awareness, but that doesn't always mean we see everything with total clarity. Looking back on your journey, after all the moves, the risks, the uncertainty, what were some of the biggest challenges you faced along the way? And despite all that, what made it all worth it for you?

Chief Change Officer

#400 Jean Zhou: Flipping the Script—From Spreadsheets to Storytelling

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So you're saying that these micro drama series are essentially a volume-driven strategy by tech companies They invest in creating content such as hiring writers to craft stories and shooting short series. The initial episodes are free, drawing in viewers, and once the audience is hooked, they introduce a paywall starting around episode 11.

Chief Change Officer

#400 Jean Zhou: Flipping the Script—From Spreadsheets to Storytelling

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It sounds like a clever subscription model, and I imagine they also monetize through advertisements. Your industry, in the Chinese context, is people-focused and people-driven. Engaging with so many different parties is essential to getting things done, but in the U.S., for example,

Chief Change Officer

#400 Jean Zhou: Flipping the Script—From Spreadsheets to Storytelling

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With the launch of OpenAI and other AI-driven tech companies, industries like media, news, and Hollywood have felt significant ripple effects. We've seen things like strikes in Hollywood over concerns about job losses. with AI potentially replacing roles like script writers, producers, and others in the production process. What about China? AI is a hot topic there.

Chief Change Officer

#400 Jean Zhou: Flipping the Script—From Spreadsheets to Storytelling

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In your industry, have you seen AI being integrated yet? Or maybe it's already causing some tension or discussions about its potential impact?

Chief Change Officer

#400 Jean Zhou: Flipping the Script—From Spreadsheets to Storytelling

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Speaking of AI versus human, I have to bring up your book, Light of Story. It's in Chinese, not yet available in English, but it's more than a guide on how to tell stories in TV and film. It's also about using stories to create both commercial and social impact. One phrase from the book really stood out to me.

Chief Change Officer

#400 Jean Zhou: Flipping the Script—From Spreadsheets to Storytelling

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Jin has written books, scripts, and produced both movies and TV series. How did she achieve all this? And more importantly, why? It all started with a simple childhood dream. which is a love for TV series. That passion transformed into a devoted career. Let's listen to the story of a storyteller.

Chief Change Officer

#400 Jean Zhou: Flipping the Script—From Spreadsheets to Storytelling

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Translated into English, it says, human nature remains unchanged, but people's hearts are changing. That feels so true and philosophical, perhaps influenced by your sociology background. So given your understanding of the past and the future of the entertainment industry in China, what are some of your future plans? for your company?

Chief Change Officer

#400 Jean Zhou: Flipping the Script—From Spreadsheets to Storytelling

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In today's episode, I'm thrilled to interview Jing Zhou, a TV and filmmaker from China.

Chief Change Officer

#400 Jean Zhou: Flipping the Script—From Spreadsheets to Storytelling

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#400 Jean Zhou: Flipping the Script—From Spreadsheets to Storytelling

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Despite your passion for TV series, how did you build your track record? How did you grow your network in the entertainment industry and eventually launch your first TV series?

Chief Change Officer

#400 Jean Zhou: Flipping the Script—From Spreadsheets to Storytelling

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Filmmaking is a multi-billion dollar industry that thrives on the art and business of storytelling. and for sure that shares stories from characters all around the world, how could I not feature someone who has mastered the craft of telling profitable stories? Jean's journey is nothing short of remarkable. From a small town girl to a sociology major,

Chief Change Officer

#400 Jean Zhou: Flipping the Script—From Spreadsheets to Storytelling

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is the classic chicken and egg dilemma. From your experience, how did you overcome this challenge to take that crucial first step? How did you gain recognition early on so as to build momentum and eventually move up and accelerate your career?

Chief Change Officer

#400 Jean Zhou: Flipping the Script—From Spreadsheets to Storytelling

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From what I've gathered, there's no such thing as pure luck or magic behind success. In today's social media-driven world, weird people make overnight success seem real. But the truth is, every success story is built on a lot of groundwork. You shared how writing a book became a learning journey for you.

Chief Change Officer

#400 Jean Zhou: Flipping the Script—From Spreadsheets to Storytelling

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Similarly, it's about getting closer to the right circles, meeting relevant people, learning from them, letting them get to know you, and fostering relationships. That's how opportunities start to align with your interests. Even if the first step is more like taking an unpaid job, it gets you in the door and builds momentum.

Chief Change Officer

#400 Jean Zhou: Flipping the Script—From Spreadsheets to Storytelling

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But I remember you mentioning that when you decided to leave your previous job to pursue your passion for TV, the industry wasn't exactly booming. It was already facing challenges. And then COVID hit, making things even harder. Yet you still took that leap, perhaps partly for educational purposes.

Chief Change Officer

#400 Jean Zhou: Flipping the Script—From Spreadsheets to Storytelling

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So I'm curious, what was the state of the TV industry in China when you decided to make that transition? How did the pandemic reshape things?

Chief Change Officer

#400 Jean Zhou: Flipping the Script—From Spreadsheets to Storytelling

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She later transitioned into accounting and even moved to the U.S. to work as an accountant. But that wasn't the end. She went deeper into the business world, earning an MBA from Chicago Bull. Another bull privet took her into venture capital and then back to China. where she built her network and credentials from scratch in the entertainment industry.

Chief Change Officer

#400 Jean Zhou: Flipping the Script—From Spreadsheets to Storytelling

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So you were saying there was a flood of hot money, short-term, speculative, opportunistic investment driving the entertainment industry 10 years ago. Then came the rise of social media and the internet, which opened the floodgates to content of all kinds. With that surge, naturally, came a lot of junk, low quality, and poorly produced material that overwhelmed the industry.

Chief Change Officer

#400 Jean Zhou: Flipping the Script—From Spreadsheets to Storytelling

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You mentioned something interesting, micro drama series. This format seems to have gained traction in China. What exactly is a micro drama series in a Chinese context? How does it differ from traditional format? And what's driving its popularity?

Chief Change Officer

#132 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part Two

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You've accomplished a lot over the years. I'm curious, how does your father see your growth and development? Looking back, you did not follow the path he expected. And over years, you've gone through many changes. If I heard you correctly, you even sold your inheritance to start Trieth and raise the capital to build the farm. If I were in your father's shoes,

Chief Change Officer

#132 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part Two

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How would I feel seeing my son try out so many different things and achieve so much while still striving for more? Had he said anything to you about your journey so far? How does your family view your transformation?

Chief Change Officer

#132 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part Two

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I recall you wrote an article titled, Is Singapore still relevant after 50 years? Here's an entrepreneurial view. So you returned to Singapore after Malaysia. built up this startup ecosystem and founded your venture capital house. Could you share with us your experience during this time?

Chief Change Officer

#132 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part Two

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I can definitely resonate with the Chinese mindset and culture you mentioned earlier. A lot of my friends grew up to become doctors, lawyers, or accountants. Those expected professional paths. I'm actually a trained accountant. That was my first job. But over time, I changed directions. While I don't have your kind of family background, my parents also had expectations for me.

Chief Change Officer

#132 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part Two

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At some point, I made certain moves to fulfill those expectations. But eventually, I broke free from them. I can really relate to that desire to break free, the persistence it takes, and the actions required to make it happen. The tagline for this show is make change ambitiously. which is all about building your own legacy and creating your own path rather than following a standard playbook.

Chief Change Officer

#132 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part Two

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In your story and journey so far, I see those elements very clearly. I'm sure your father, your friends, and everyone who has supported you along the way see it too.

Chief Change Officer

#132 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part Two

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One last question. Since we've talked about intergenerational wealth, And we're now living in an era of intergenerational workforce. I'm curious, you are a father yourself. So what are your expectations for your children as they grow up? In terms of their identity, their careers, and their lives, what do you hope for them?

Chief Change Officer

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Let's web up our conversation by looking into the future, not just from a business perspective, but in terms of your children's lives. I think this would be a nice way to close our discussion.

Chief Change Officer

#132 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part Two

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#132 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part Two

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I read in your presentation that 92% of businesses in Southeast Asia are family-run. I'd like to dig deeper into the unique challenges these next-gen family business owners face. Could you explain a bit more, especially for listeners who may not be from this part of the world or who don't have experience with family businesses?

Chief Change Officer

#132 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part Two

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I think it would be helpful for us to understand the specific challenges because some people might assume, oh, they all have money. So what's the situation? What are the real challenges they face?

Chief Change Officer

#132 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part Two

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against his father's expectations. He left the family business and his home country to pursue entrepreneurship in Malaysia, where he became an e-commerce entrepreneur. Upon returning to Singapore, he sold his inheritance to raise the set-up capital for his venture capital firm. Chris wants to be his own man. We've explored his journey of transformation in two parts.

Chief Change Officer

#132 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part Two

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When I look at your business model for Trife as a VC, it strikes me as quite smart. There are tons of VCs out there, but as I prepare for this interview and read about your approach, I realized how clever it is. So for those who may not be familiar with how venture capital works, VCs don't just invest their own money.

Chief Change Officer

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They also raise money from investors, and then as fiduciaries, managing that pool of money by investing in high growth potential businesses. The objective is for these businesses to succeed, generate returns, and provide profits back to the investors. What stands out about your model, Chris, is that you've built a strong network with the next generation of family business owners.

Chief Change Officer

#132 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part Two

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These individuals have capital and you are able to raise money from them. They don't have to commit a massive amount of money. Perhaps each might allocate a million dollars or so, maybe even low seven figure sum. But with the right scale, even a half million dollar check for each could add up significantly as limited partners in your fund.

Chief Change Officer

#132 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part Two

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Your fund has deployed about $40 million so far, investing in technologies with next-gen solutions that could be highly relevant to these family businesses. This creates a cycle of synergy You raise funds, invest in technology, and these technologies can in turn serve as solutions for the businesses of your investors.

Chief Change Officer

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It's a cycle that keeps the entire engine moving along smoothly, allowing you to continue raising funds and investing in technology that benefits everyone involved. I must say, the whole setup makes a lot of sense to me.

Chief Change Officer

#132 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. In this episode and the last, I'm talking to Christopher Kwak, a third-generation member of a well-established family business in Singapore.

Chief Change Officer

#132 From Family Empire to Personal Legacy: Chris Quek’s Bold Quest for Independence - Part Two

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The last episode focused on his pursuit of his own identity, his desires, his actions, the why and the how. In this episode, We'll dive into his work as a VC investor, building up the entrepreneurial ecosystem in Singapore and Southeast Asia. We'll discuss the legacy he hopes to create for his country and the region. And we'll talk about his expectations for his children as a father at age 46.

Chief Change Officer

#83 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Three

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From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition, to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Colin shares how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In the next episodes, we'll explore the learning required for transformation, why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skills decking is the future.

Chief Change Officer

#83 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Three

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This is a three-part series with Colin Selvidge.

Chief Change Officer

#83 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Three

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Let me share with you one live example, which is this podcast show. When I first started, it was a weekly show, one episode per week on average. Now, seven episodes, one week, which means it has become a daily show, one episode per day. Then some people joke with me. Hey, Vince, are you using AI for all of this? And my answer is simple.

Chief Change Officer

#83 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Three

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There's no tool out there right now that can holistically handle the entire process of creating seven episodes a week. Sure, I use ChatGPT to check grammar or refine some copywriting when I need a bit of inspiration. But beyond that, everything else is on me.

Chief Change Officer

#83 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Three

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I invite every guest personally, schedule pre-calls, talk with them for at least 30 minutes before actual recording, send follow-up emails, handle all the nitty-gritty details, and of course, host the show myself. This voice you hear, that's all human. Beyond editing every single piece, I do it myself, with the soundtrack.

Chief Change Officer

#83 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Three

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I know there's so-called AI-driven tools that claim to pick segments for audiograms or do the heavy lifting, but honestly, I do it manually. I'm so immersed in each conversation that I know exactly which moments stand out and deserve to be highlighted.

Chief Change Officer

#83 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Three

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is a lot of human touch a lot of my personal footprint my fingerprint in every part of the process and that's what creates the final product looking ahead i think the strategy for individuals whether in work or life has to involve finding the balance

Chief Change Officer

#83 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Three

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Along the way, we need to decide which parts of the process need more human touch, where monitoring, intuition, and judgment are essential, and then identify which parts can be standardized or delegated to AI to work faster, with more precision, and on a larger scale

Chief Change Officer

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And finally, in part three, we'll tackle AI, human intelligence, and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Buckle up. This one is a ride.

Chief Change Officer

#83 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Three

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Thank you.

Chief Change Officer

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I kind of agree or disagree with what you just said. Lifelong learning is about the attitude, in my opinion. Lifelong learning isn't just about acquiring new knowledge. It's about figuring out how you learn best. Some people thrive in classroom settings or in-person workshops, while others prefer self-paced digital formats.

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#83 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Three

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The methods vary, but the goal is the same, which is to keep growing, to keep learning. When it comes to skill stacking, I see it as something deeper. You mentioned it's about purposefully merging diverse skills to solve complex challenges, and I think you're right. What's often missing isn't the means to learn, We have more access than ever to tools, training, and knowledge.

Chief Change Officer

#83 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Three

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The gap lies in connecting the dots between those skills and leveraging them in meaningful ways to multiply the impact. In my view, we are living in a tool economy, tool, T-O-O-L. Everything is about the tool. whether it's ChatGPT today, Google yesterday, or whatever the next hot thing will be. The mindset is, if you have a problem, there's a tool for that. Need a solution?

Chief Change Officer

#83 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Three

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Just grab a hammer, a screwdriver. What is the problem? Most of the time, those tools are just solving service-level symptoms. not addressing the deeper underlying issues. It's like putting a Band-Aid on a cup without treating the infection. Sure, the immediate problem looks solved, but the root cause persists, and people end up repeating the same mistakes.

Chief Change Officer

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I see this pattern a lot, especially among knowledge workers They buy into the idea of lifelong learning, sign up for courses, pay for certifications, and stack up all these skills. But they don't actually go anywhere with them. Why? Because the key isn't just acquiring skills.

Chief Change Officer

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is in connecting them, applying them to real-life scenarios, case by case, and solving problems with them in an integrated manner. So the missing piece is less about technical skills and more about human skills, what most people call solved skills. Problem solving, critical thinking, emotional intelligence, communication. These are the connective tissue that make skills stacking impactful.

Chief Change Officer

#83 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Three

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Without them, you're just collecting tools in a toolbox. You don't know how to use effectively. That's where I think the future of lifelong learning needs to focus. Not just teaching new skills, but on helping people build the connections between them and apply them in meaningful, impactful ways. It's not about the tools themselves. It's about what you build with them.

Chief Change Officer

#83 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Three

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In part one, the first episode, we'll dive into Colin's fascinating journey as a self-proclaimed change addict turned change guru. Colin's career spans continents, cultures, and industries, seven countries lived in, seven more seconded to, and projects in over 70 nations.

Chief Change Officer

#83 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Three

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So you've been diving deep into AI lately. As someone with a strong background in change management and leadership, how do you see this technology shaping the future of change management and skills decking? What's your vision for where we're headed?

Chief Change Officer

#83 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Three

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From organizational transformation to personal reinvention, he has mastered the art of embracing change and applying those lessons to life. In this conversation, Colin unpacks his unique perspective on change. How throwing himself into the unknown led to unparalleled growth and insight.

Chief Change Officer

#83 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Three

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Destruction and wastage. It's just noise.

Chief Change Officer

#83 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Three

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One thing that many people agree on, but I don't think they are fully figured out yet, It's the importance of human skills in an AI-driven world. I like to call it human intelligence. In fact, that's the essence of this podcast. My goal is to elevate human intelligence by uniting global voices like yours.

Chief Change Officer

#83 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Three

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For me, human intelligence is about being experience-driven, time-tested, and grounded in real-life skills. It's about tapping into hindsight, insight, and foresight, exactly like the wisdom you shared over the past hour. And while we talk about human intelligence being crucial in the AI era, I think that's exactly what we are lacking.

Chief Change Officer

#83 Colin Savage: A Change Addict’s Quest Across Borders—From Canada to Japan and Beyond — Part Three

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With all these tools, social media platforms, and tech innovations, people aren't developing essential skills like communication, which is at the core of human intelligence. So my question to you is this, human skills are critical, but how do we bring them back? How do we nurture and develop these skills as we move forward?

Chief Change Officer

#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

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After a year away from her consultancy, Erica returned with fresh purpose, balancing her career on a three-day work week, launching a podcast and expanding her reach to create a bigger impact. Today, part one, Erica shares her career journey, the twist and the turns and the accident that changed everything.

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#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

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Those setbacks ended up leading to new insights, to new heights, knowing what I can and I cannot do, what I can accept, and what doesn't fit me at all. It helps me become laser-focused on what really works for me and what's worth pursuing. That clarity can be powerful, almost like a reckoning, and turn tough moments into real growth opportunities.

Chief Change Officer

#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

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So I love hearing about how career transitions shaped you. And you also mentioned that you've been through personal events, life events that brought an other layer of challenge and insight. Would you mind sharing more about those experiences?

Chief Change Officer

#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm speaking with Erica Sosner, a fellow podcast host and the author of The Career Equation, who, like me, is passionate about careers.

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Then in part two, airing tomorrow, she'll share the hard-earned wisdom she gained from overcoming paralysis, starting a new chapter shaping a path to personal and professional growth. Erica will also dive into the career equation she created and how we can all work towards becoming better versions of ourselves in our careers. Good afternoon, Erica. Welcome to our show.

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#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

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Just now, Erica shared her career journey, the twists, the turns and the accident that changed everything. Tomorrow in part two, she will share the hard-earned wisdom she gained from overcoming paralysis, starting a new chapter, shaping a path to personal and professional growth. Erica will also dive into the career equation she created,

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and tell us how we can all work towards becoming better versions of ourselves in our career. Come back and join us tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

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Welcome to Chief Change Officer. Thank you so much, friends. I'm delighted to be here. Erica is also a podcast host, and she covers careers. So does that make us competitors? I don't think so. I see it more like we are part of this big circle, a world where so many people are focused on their future, their life, and their career.

Chief Change Officer

#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

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I think we are both contributing to something bigger by sharing insights, lessons, and experiences in a human, direct way. Hopefully this helps someone get inspired or maybe even get unstuck. So Erica, let's start with you. Tell us a bit about yourself, your story and your experience before we drill down into your insights.

Chief Change Officer

#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

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Transitions, there's so many kinds. We often think of transition as just changing jobs, but it's more than that. It's not just jumping from Google to Microsoft in the same industry. Sometimes it's moving to a totally different industry or even changing countries, cities, and life itself. Erica, in your journey so far,

Chief Change Officer

#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

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If I were to ask about how you've navigated and managed your own transitions, could you share a couple of stories, maybe one related to your own career and one to your personal life? I think it would give us a deeper understanding of your experience and why you are so well-equipped

Chief Change Officer

#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

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But what makes Erica's story unique is her remarkable journey of resilience, purpose, and transformation in 2022 a life-changing accident left her paralyzed facing months of recovery through immense pain and uncertainty erica fought her way back back to walking back to work and back to a renewed mission.

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#261 Erica Sosna: Rebuilding Her Career—and Spine—One Step at a Time – Part One

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I totally relate to your story. Before I launched this podcast, I also faced setbacks and failures. That took a lot of reflection to walk through. Like you said, it was devastating when it happened. But once I worked through those feelings, it became an opportunity to look inward, to be honest with yourself, and eventually grow out of it.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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And one of the tools to do that is money. Now that you've touched on retirement, there's another trend, the rise of financial influencers. These days, anyone can learn about finance and investments online anytime, anywhere. On one hand, these influencers help democratize financial information and make advice more accessible. But on the other hand, there are concerns.

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questions about their qualifications, the accuracy of their information, conflicts of interest, and the fact that some may lack formal financial education or ethical standards. Some may promote investments for personal gain without proper disclosure. With so much information out there, What's your take on this rising force of influencers?

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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And how would you advise listeners who are navigating through all this to make smarter decisions?

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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So if you have kids, care about your financial future, are looking after elderly family members, or are simply concerned about financial and family planning in general, join us and get inspired by Colin's journey in building wealth from scratch. This is part two of our two-part series on Colin and his golden rules of people-focused finance. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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I think the issue with financial influences is just one part of a larger problem. Ever since the internet became a part of our lives, we've had access to a flood of information. And now, with social media and various platforms, we all have to deal with misinformation and fake news. These influencers are just one group of influencers sharing information, but often it's not verifiable.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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This brings us to a major topic that has been discussed a lot lately in the media, which is developing critical thinking and independent thinking. These are skills we're supposed to learn in school and on the job. But with the rise of social media and some negative effects of technology, it seems like people are losing the art of thinking critically and independently.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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This brings me to our last and most important question. Let's go back to your roots as a family man. You are a father of three young kids, the next generation. With your knowledge of investment and diversification, you're already building a financial safety net for them, buying gold for them, securing the future. But beyond the wealth you're building,

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#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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there's the question of how they will make use of it as they grow up. That leads us to financial education and literacy, which I believe is lacking in today's society, especially for younger people. So as a professional investor who helps clients day in and day out, also as a father of three, How are you preparing your children for their financial future?

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#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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How do you nurture the ability to become critical thinkers, independent decision makers, and financial literate individuals so they can make informed decisions when the time comes?

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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So the desire for control often comes from a lack of trust and confidence in the system.

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#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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That's actually one of the biggest lessons my mother shared with me back in high school. She never had the chance to go to college. She grew up poor and didn't get that opportunity. But she loves learning, and she makes sure I could learn as much as I wanted. She always tells me, focus on your learning because that's something no one can ever steal from you.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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When you think about it, stocks and bonds can lose value overnight. But then there's the argument that a degree doesn't hold the same importance anymore. That's a whole other conversation we could dive into in a different episode. But one thing is for sure, learning itself never goes out of style. Learning always has long-term value, no matter what. It's an investment that never depreciates.

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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Yes, inflation, the common enemy we all face. But what other concerns should people be thinking about?

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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I used to work in Los Angeles for TCW Asset Management, where I managed billion-dollar funds for institutions alongside the bond king, Jeffrey Gundlach, focusing on bond and credit portfolios. Today, I'm meeting someone else from LA, but with a different angle on investment. Precious metals like gold and silver.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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You've mentioned the word retirement a few times now. Well, this podcast isn't specifically about retirement. A lot of what we discuss, like career change and navigating through this era of change and uncertainty, ties into that. Even the whole notion of retirement is evolving, with AI set to reshape many aspects of work and career development.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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the idea of what retirement looks like is shifting too. Now, for those who still have a stable job and income, would you say in preparing for whatever that version of retirement might be, Diversifying or investing in gold and precious metals could serve as a haste against income uncertainty. Have you worked with clients in this situation before? And what advice do you give them?

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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Our guest, Colin Plume, is here to talk about something often overlooked and undervalued. But don't worry, this isn't a sales pitch on buying gold or silver. Colin and I will dive into more personal topics, family, parenting, retirement, and the sense of control over personal finance, as well as financial education for future generations.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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That brings up another opportunity for a longer-term strategy, especially for people with continued income. It's definitely healthier, both physically and mentally, to stay sharp, to stay engaged, even part-time. Studies show that after a certain age, while exercise is crucial for physical health, keeping your brain active is just as important for mental and physical well-being.

Chief Change Officer

#205 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part Two

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Earning extra income, even part-time, helps with that. And of course, some of that extra income could go towards investments, like you mentioned. But it's also about maintaining control. Control over your life, your mobility, and what you want to achieve before the final days. I think we all, at the end of the day, want to own our lives and have control over them.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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So if you have kids, care about your financial future, are looking after elderly family members, or are simply concerned about financial and family planning in general, join us and get inspired by Colin's journey in building wealth from scratch. This is part one of our two-part series on Colin and his golden rules of people-focused finance. Let's get started. Welcome to our show, Colin.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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So let's say I come to you with a chunk of money, and I'm considering buying gold or silver. Can you walk me through the process? You've mentioned things like acquisition, so I suppose after that comes storage. because obviously, I can't just keep it in my basement. Then, is there some kind of monitoring? Like, do you send reports on prices every month or so?

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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And at some point, I'll probably be concerned about liquidity. How easy, how cost-effective It is to sell when I'm ready to cash out.

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#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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I can definitely see the appeal of control. If someone owns a gold bar and keeps it at home, they obviously have to figure out security. Not just a regular safe, but maybe something really sophisticated. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if some people still do what they did back in the day.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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Like in China, for example, keeping large amounts of cash, gold bars, and other valuables at home, even in the bedroom. It's that tangible feeling of having something you can physically hold on to. It's more tangible than even owning a house because a house, while you can see it, is tied to a bunch of paperwork, just like stocks, bonds, and funds.

Chief Change Officer

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Good morning.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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They are all backed by legal papers and financial systems. So I get why some people prefer to have something they can physically control right at their fingertips.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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Today, we are diving into a topic that's really important, not just in business, but also in every family, finance. And it's also right at the core of what you do. But before we get into that, let's start with you. Could you share a bit about your background, your career journey? and the story behind how you got to where you are today.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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So the desire for control often comes from a lack of trust and confidence in the system.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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Just now, Colin shared how he got into the gold business. and why investing in precious metals is timely, especially in this era of change and uncertainty. In part two, which will be released tomorrow, we'll dive deeper into the risks and opportunities in the precious metal market. Colin will also share his insights on financial influences

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parenting, retirement, family wealth building, and financial education. Don't miss it. Come back and join us again tomorrow. See you. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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I used to work in Los Angeles for TCW Asset Management, where I managed billion-dollar funds for institutions alongside the bond king, Jeffrey Gundlach, focusing on bond and credit portfolios. Today, I'm meeting someone else from LA, but with a different angle on investment. Precious metals like gold and silver.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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Noble Gold, just the name, sounds like it's all about investing in gold and precious metals. I'll let you do the pitch. Why is now the right time? What is the opportunity in gold investing? But before we get into that, I want to ask you about your leadership style. while you're running an investment firm focused on financial products.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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I've heard that you're really a people-first leader, whether it's your clients, customers, or employees. Would you say that's an accurate way to describe your approach?

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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Our guest, Colin Plume, is here to talk about something often overlooked and undervalued. But don't worry, this isn't a sales pitch on buying gold or silver. Colin and I will dive into more personal topics, family, parenting, retirement, and the sense of control over personal finance, as well as financial education for future generations.

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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When we first met, I shared a bit about my own background in finance, which has been more on the traditional side By that, I mean I've worked with mainstream investment products like bonds and credit, and my focus has mostly been on big institutions. I haven't had much experience dealing directly with individual investors or in the precious metals space. So I'm curious, why precious metals?

Chief Change Officer

#204 Collin Plume: From Kid Collector to Gold Guru – Part One

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I think this question has two parts. First, why did you choose to set up this firm focused on precious metals instead of other investment products? And second, when you are talking to your customers, why do you recommend precious metals? Why gold? Why silver? As viable investment options for them?

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#124 Waverly Deutsch’s Coaching Wisdom: 22 Years of Love, Logic, and AI at Chicago Booth

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Since leaving that structured academic environment, she has transitioned to her current role as a coach for a more diverse and larger group of entrepreneurs. Throughout my personal experience, having both official and unofficial mentors and coaches has been profoundly beneficial. It's not just about the outcomes, but the process.

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For listeners, NVC stands for New Venture Challenge. That's what Waverly referred to in her example. NVC is a top-ranked flagship accelerator program for entrepreneurs. That's programmed under Polsky Center for Entrepreneurship and Innovation at the University of Chicago. I'll attach the web link in the show notes in case anyone is interested.

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Now, let's step away from the structured environment of a business school. You are now an independent consultant and coach. You are not dealing with a defined group of talents. The world has become your client base. Entrepreneurs of varying ages, generations, and cultures and educational level eat with their unique venture ideas.

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While some may resemble MBAs using more logic than passion than love, others might remind you of younger MBAs or even undergrads. Yet the audience you engage with now is much broader and more diverse. I'm curious about how you've adapted or scaled your approach in this new role

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How do you tailor your methods to meet the needs of such a varied audience, especially when it comes to refining their pitches and developing their venture ideas?

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And more importantly, I've learned so much from the real life experiences of humans. My supervisors, teachers, colleagues, classmates, and even my life partner, who was once my teacher. These individuals have provided me with immense love and helped me refine my logic. human experience has always been critical to my personal and professional development.

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You really are an excellent listener. I think part of that comes from your deep understanding of the situation at hand. And another big part is your communication skills. You're not just articulate. Once you understand what someone is going through, you take the time to think and analyze before responding in a way that really resonates with them.

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I think that's what makes you such a good listener. It's not just about using your ears, but also engaging your brain and then responding thoughtfully. I can definitely vouch for that.

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Absolutely. As a coach, I've realized that true listening is rare. We often hear about the importance of listening skills on social media. But ironically, social media by itself is a one-way means of communication. Switching back to coaching, I've done a fair amount of coaching myself. working with entrepreneurs and professionals.

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What I've noticed is that I can make a strong impression right from the first meeting. Often, the subject spends 10 or even 15 minutes sharing the problems and situations, and I listen intently. Then I'll distill everything they've said into maybe 5 to 10 sentences at most. They're usually amazed and say, yes, exactly. That's exactly what I meant. It goes beyond verbal or written skills.

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It's about truly listening, capturing the essence of what they are saying. And then reflecting it back to them in their own language. That's how they realize, wow, you really get me. That's how you build trust as a coach. That's been my experience.

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As we enter the age of AI, Waverly and I will also discuss the role of human coaches. In this still developing scenario, AI is the powerhouse of logic. while seasoned coaches like Waverly represent love, providing that essential human touch in the coaching process. Without further ado, let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#124 Waverly Deutsch’s Coaching Wisdom: 22 Years of Love, Logic, and AI at Chicago Booth

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Do you think AI could be your competitor in coaching? It's multilingual and has incredible computational abilities with our theme of love and logic. where AI represents logic. And you, as a human coach, embody love. How do you see AI supporting your coaching effort? And on the flip side, how could it possibly diminish the distinctiveness of your skills?

Chief Change Officer

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Now, let's dive into a significant chapter of your career at Chicago Booth, where you've dedicated 22 years to teaching and coaching. The environment there was highly structured, and the students, ranging from college undergrads to full-time MBAs about mid-20s and late 20s, and executives who are mid-30s to mid-40s, all of them represented a distinctly logical and talented group of people.

Chief Change Officer

#124 Waverly Deutsch’s Coaching Wisdom: 22 Years of Love, Logic, and AI at Chicago Booth

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We kick off today's episode with Waverly sharing how her roles as a teacher, coach, and guide have helped different kinds of entrepreneurs and business people strike the right balance between logic-driven calculations and emotionally driven desires for new ventures. Then, we shifted the angle, stepped up, and looked into the role of human coaches in the age of AI.

Chief Change Officer

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In this still developing scenario, AI is the powerhouse of logic, while seasoned coaches like Waverly represent love, providing that essential human touch in the coaching process. As we speak, we are already seeing a new wave of tech products called AI agents. So, what will happen with this new norm? As Waverly argues, building a business is fundamentally about building human relationships.

Chief Change Officer

#124 Waverly Deutsch’s Coaching Wisdom: 22 Years of Love, Logic, and AI at Chicago Booth

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She likens it to kosher, moving from one stage to the next. So, while the future might be digital, human connections will remain at the heart of business and personal growth. In the third part of our series, we'll come full circle and focus back on Waverly herself. She's now more than a coach. She's an entrepreneur herself, actively building her own new venture.

Chief Change Officer

#124 Waverly Deutsch’s Coaching Wisdom: 22 Years of Love, Logic, and AI at Chicago Booth

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It's a fascinating mix of her ever-changing experiences. Stay tuned, we'll explore that in the next episode. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#124 Waverly Deutsch’s Coaching Wisdom: 22 Years of Love, Logic, and AI at Chicago Booth

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Many of these students, like myself, came from very strong corporate backgrounds where we were primarily trained to think with our heads over our head. With that in mind, I'm curious about your perspective about them. They came to you very eager to explore and explode their passions for innovation, for change, and for entrepreneurship. What common challenges did you observe them face?

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#124 Waverly Deutsch’s Coaching Wisdom: 22 Years of Love, Logic, and AI at Chicago Booth

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That's the first part of my question. For the second part, given those challenges you've identified, How have you leveraged your own experiences to guide them? Do you find yourself offering more love, i.e. emotional support, over logic, i.e. calculated strategies? Or is it a mix of both? or depending on individuals or segments of individuals?

Chief Change Officer

#124 Waverly Deutsch’s Coaching Wisdom: 22 Years of Love, Logic, and AI at Chicago Booth

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Here, she explores from three perspectives how the intricate balance of love and logic shapes our career decisions and life choices. The last episode delved into Waverly's personal journey. looking into the love and logic that have guided her career path and experiences.

Chief Change Officer

#124 Waverly Deutsch’s Coaching Wisdom: 22 Years of Love, Logic, and AI at Chicago Booth

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Can you share with us some specific examples?

Chief Change Officer

#124 Waverly Deutsch’s Coaching Wisdom: 22 Years of Love, Logic, and AI at Chicago Booth

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In this episode, which focuses on her role as a teacher and expert guide, we'll dive into a major chapter of her life, 22 years at Chicago Booth. There, she taught and coached a sharply focused group of highly logical talents, all deeply engaged in their passion for innovation, change, and entrepreneurship.

Chief Change Officer

#124 Waverly Deutsch’s Coaching Wisdom: 22 Years of Love, Logic, and AI at Chicago Booth

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. This episode is the second part of our three-part series titled Love & Logic, featuring Waverly Deutsch as our special guest.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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Even hearing your childhood story today, I realized there are so many parallels to mine, especially that deep craving for learning and family expectation. I'm really glad we finally connected. Thank you again.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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That's where we'll close this conversation. Adara shows us that ambition without filters isn't ambition. It's noise. When you pause before saying yes, when you focus on what moves you upward, you get closer to a career and life that actually fits. Microskills isn't about massive changes. It's about meaningful ones you can start today. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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Let's look at your book, Micro Skills. Reason mentioned is partly a collection of articles you both wrote over time. But it's also a pretty substantial book, not a short one by any means. So I'm curious, who came up with the title? What was the thought process behind it? I imagine it ties into the kind of impact you hope to make with the book.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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But I'd love to hear your perspective on how the title came to be.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Dr. Adara Landry and I almost crossed paths years ago. While she was earning her master's in education at Harvard, I was seriously considering joining that same program, driven by my passion for learning and education technology.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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I say micro skills is surely more business friendly as a title. In today's world, especially in the business training and learning space, everyone's talking about skill-based learning. Some even argue degrees aren't as important anymore. So calling it micro skills really lends It's like saying, small actions, big impact, and people get it right away.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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Now, when I first read the manuscript, and I told Reza this too, my first reaction was ambitious. Most business folks focus on one big idea and drill deep into it across eight or 10 chapters. That's the usual advice. Pick a niche, feel around it, But your book is broad. It covers networking, communication, mindset, and more. Honestly, I can already see 8 or 10 spin-off books from this one.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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So I'm curious, why did you choose this all-in-one approach instead of zooming in on just one area?

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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I really see both of you as career doctors. When I started this show a year ago, I chose cautiously to position it under the career category while I've interviewed people from all walks of life. I realized there's a massive gap in real practical career education. And I'm not just talking about job search tips or resume writing. especially now with tools like ChatGPT. I mean the deep stuff.

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#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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Insight, hindsight, and foresight. Real stories, real case studies, real learning, real human intelligence. Myself, I've been through top schools like Yale and Chicago Booth. Sure, there are career services, but honestly, what they offer today isn't that different from 20, 30 years ago.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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And for most people around the world, whether Gen Z, Millennial, Gen X, or older, there's little meaningful career guidance. Everyone is figuring it out on their own. So like you used a book, I used this show to reach people with unfiltered career conversations. That's why your book Micro Skills really resonated. It's ambitious, but that's exactly the kind of help people need.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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I didn't end up pursuing it, but I'm glad that they brought us together through our shared interest in upskilling, learning, and the book Microskills, which she co-authored with Dr. Risa Lewis, who joined me previously on the show. Dr. Landry is now a Harvard emergency medicine physician, educator, and co-author of Microskills. Madison was always in the picture.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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Now, I know we can't go into every chapter today, but if I gave you, say, five minutes to talk about one section of the book, the one that speaks to you the most, what would it be? Is it communication? Networking? Mentorship? What's that one skill or idea you think people really need to hear?

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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You brought up such an important point. And it ties perfectly to something I released some time ago. Episode 243 and 244 featuring Lisa Baudel, who helps teams at Google, Zoom, Amazon rethink how they work by focusing on simplicity. One of her core strategies is called Kill Stupid Rules.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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It's all about eliminating what doesn't serve us, whether that's outdated processes in organizations or at the personal level, habits and obligations that burn us out. And honestly, that hit home for me. Years ago, I burned out in my job. Looking back, I know why. I said yes to everything. I thought that was ambition. I thought that was what you do in your 20s and 30s.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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Her mother believed she had the hands for it. But it was two real-life emergencies that confirmed her path. In this two-part series, we talk about mentorship that actually works, why waiting to feel ready can backfire, and what it means to take ownership of your time and energy. Dr. Landry doesn't just talk about communication. She models it. Let's get into it.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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But I learned the hard way that ambition without boundaries isn't sustainable. I dealt with mental health issues as a result. What saved me? Clarity. Learning to say no. Simplifying. And as you just said, it's not selfish, it's strategic. We only have a few minutes left. So let me ask you this. Is there anything I didn't ask you today that you really want to say?

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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Maybe one or two final takeaways you want every listener or viewer to walk away with, even if they forget everything else.

Chief Change Officer

#322 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part Two

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Thank you so much, Adara. I wish we had more time. But I know you have a class to get to. And I definitely don't want to make you late. I really appreciate you taking the time today. Like I said, I hope we'll get another chance to talk again. Maybe not just about the book, but also about learning, growth, and all the experiences we share.

Chief Change Officer

#321 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part One

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Before we dive into the book content, I want to touch on something unique in your background, your degree from Harvard School of Education. I actually almost went there myself. We could have been classmates. For me, learning has always been a big theme in my life. I love books. I write books. I'm driven by intellectual curiosity.

Chief Change Officer

#321 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part One

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And I've worked with education technology companies because of that. So I'm curious, what motivated you to pursue that education degree? What did you take away from it? And how has that helped shape your work? Maybe even this book?

Chief Change Officer

#321 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Dr. Adara Landry and I almost crossed paths years ago.

Chief Change Officer

#321 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part One

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You clearly enjoy learning and you clearly enjoy teaching. How did your time at the School of Education change? influence your approach to writing this book and helping others grow in their careers?

Chief Change Officer

#321 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part One

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We've got a precious 45 minutes, so let's make the most of it. I invited you on my show because of the book titled Micro Skills. Your co-author, Dr. Reza Lois, joined me some time ago. I just released her two-part series. We had such a great conversation that I thought, why not bring you on as well to add a fresh, complimentary perspective to the project? But first, let's start with you.

Chief Change Officer

#321 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part One

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Let's look at your book, Micro Skills. Reason mentioned is partly a collection of articles you both wrote over time. But it's also a pretty substantial book, not a short one by any means. So I'm curious, who came up with the title? What was the thought process behind it? I imagine it ties into the kind of impact you hope to make with the book.

Chief Change Officer

#321 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part One

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I'd love to hear your perspective on how the title came to be.

Chief Change Officer

#321 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part One

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That's where we'll pause today. Adara walked us through the life moments that shaped her, from helping a stranger in an emergency to finding her own way into emergency medicine, mentorship, and education. In part two, we go deeper into micro skills. how small, repeatable habits and practices can change the way we work, communicate, and live. Stay tuned. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#321 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part One

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#321 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part One

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Can you walk us through a bit of your personal story? some key highlights of your career and life journey. Before we dive into the book and its key messages,

Chief Change Officer

#321 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part One

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Before we get into the book, I'd love to hear about your passion for medicine. What drew you to this area in the first place? You studied science, but at some point you made the decision to become a doctor. Why? And why emergency medicine specifically?

Chief Change Officer

#321 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part One

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While she was earning her master's in education at Harvard, I was seriously considering joining that same program, driven by my passion for learning and education technology.

Chief Change Officer

#321 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part One

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Your co-author, Dr. Reza Lewis, is also in ER. Is that how you two first connected? Through practicing, teaching, or working together before you teamed up for the book project?

Chief Change Officer

#321 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part One

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I didn't end up pursuing it, but I'm glad that they brought us together through our shared interest in upskilling, learning, and the book Microskills, which she co-authored with Dr. Risa Lewis, who joined me previously on the show. Dr. Landry is now a Harvard emergency medicine physician, educator, and co-author of Microskills. Madison was always in the picture.

Chief Change Officer

#321 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part One

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I've published two books myself, both in Chinese. So I know firsthand how tough the writing process can be. And honestly, co-authoring a book seems just as intense as co-founding a startup. You're building something from scratch together with all the passion, but also the potential for tension when visions don't align.

Chief Change Officer

#321 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part One

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Writing yourself is already hard, but adding in two authors with daily jobs, deadlines, editing, publishing, etc. That's a marathon. So first, I really admire how you and Risa pull it off. But tell me honestly, now that the book is out, when you look back, how was the process? How long did it take? Were there any tough moments that makes you wonder if it would come together?

Chief Change Officer

#321 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part One

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And how did you two navigate those?

Chief Change Officer

#321 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part One

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Her mother believed she had the hands for it. But it was two real-life emergencies that confirmed her path. In this two-part series, we talk about mentorship that actually works, why waiting to feel ready can backfire, and what it means to take ownership of your time and energy. Dr. Landry doesn't just talk about communication. She models it. Let's get into it.

Chief Change Officer

#321 Adaira Landry MD: From Mentorship to Micro Skills—Tools for Thriving at Work — Part One

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When I prepped for Reese's interview, I sent her a couple of questions. I just reread that email before this call, and one thing I wrote stood out. I see both of you as career doctors. You are medical doctors, yes, but now you're writing a business book open to all generations and industries. You mentor, guide, and help people create and build better careers. That's why I call you career doctors.

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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For everyday people, not just leaders or influencers, what advice would you give on cultivating a generosity mindset in daily life? How can we become more conscious of generosity and move beyond the mindset to make it a habit? So it shows up consistently in our actions and behaviors. Any practical tips for building this habit?

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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Yes, I actually add to that. I think it's really beneficial to use a notebook and pen instead of typing on your phone. Studies show that the act of writing by hand helps with analyzing, filtering, and clarifying thoughts, which can really benefit mental health. So I assume you're suggesting actual writing, not just typing on a laptop or phone?

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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Yes. And about using the phone, I actually go a step further. Jogging things down on my phone, but eventually I transfer it into a physical notebook. I know there's tech now that lets you write digitally and it saves to a notebook file. But I still enjoy the actual human art of handwriting. Writing really makes a difference.

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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It helps me feel better, connected, which is important for mental wellness, especially in a world that can feel isolating. Even if we're not meeting face to face, just connecting and talking is rewarding. For instance, podcasting has had a huge positive impact on my own mental wellness. It feels good to connect like this, even if it's virtual.

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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So when it comes to practicing generosity, it doesn't have to be complicated. Unlike business, where we calculate ROI and financial budgets, the benefits of generosity, just reaching out, connecting, can be immediate and tangible.

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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Thank you. Thank you. Well, in fact, I'll send you my resume because if you are ever building a generosity empire, I would love to join your journey. Listening to you has brought back memories from my early career. I worked with senior leaders who were generous in their own way, nurturing and helping me without expecting anything in return. That generosity built meaningful connections beyond work.

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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We made a two-part series for you. Yesterday, in Part 1, our last episode, we looked into Monty's personal experiences, his definition of generosity, and why he believes so strongly in practicing generosity as a habit. Today, Part 2, we'll explore what isn't generosity. why practicing generosity can be challenging in today's world, and how to nurture generosity-centered mindset.

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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Even after we all moved on, we stay in touch. Those relationships are rare and precious. and they've made all the difference in my journey.

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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If you are still skeptical about how generosity can lead to success, join us for this conversation. We'd love for you to be part of the discussion. Let's get started. I have a couple of follow-up questions. You shared why generosity is important, your definition, what it means, and some real examples from people you've worked with.

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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But on the flip side, I'd like to hear about what isn't generosity. In your career, you've worked with a lot of leaders and teams. What are some behaviors or attitudes you've seen so far that you would say are the complete opposite of generosity? Maybe things that shrug you as really rude. I think understanding the flip side would be helpful for listeners.

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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giving them a clearer perspective on what generosity isn't. It might even help them recognize, identify, and avoid those less generous behaviors in their own actions or interactions. Could you share some of those not so generous examples?

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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If you could stand on top of a mountain and shout to the world, telling everyone how essential it is, not just as a concept, but as a life approach that can truly change your life, make you happier, and bring more fulfillment, then why aren't more people embracing it In your experience, why do you think we've lost the art of generosity? I have my own theory, but I'd love to hear yours.

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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What's gone wrong in a society that some of us have either forgotten about it or never developed the skill at all?

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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Like me, she does it because she wants to leave it better for the next person. So who is our guest today? Is Monty Wood, author of the book called Generosity Wins and the former CEO of Opus Agency, a creative branding partner for some of the world's most influential brands.

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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Looking at it from human nature. Greed is one of our seven deadly sins, as they say. We even got a movie called Seventh. Brad Pitt, wasn't it? While there's a lot that could be said about that, I would rather focus on how our present reality has impacted generosity. First off, social media has changed how we see and interact with the world.

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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It affects how we conduct ourselves, often emphasizing superficial connections over genuine connections. Mainstream media adds another layer, often with their own agenda. pushing certain narratives that can cloud our judgment, especially around elections or other high-stick events. Independent journalism is waiting, and we're left with these biased perspectives shaping the way we think. Then,

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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There's this trend of idolizing successful tech founders, especially among younger leaders. They see people raising millions, building billion-dollar companies, and assume they need to emulate every behavior to reach that level. But as you pointed out, even Steve Jobs... though he had a clear purpose, wasn't known for his kindness in the workplace.

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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It is as if some tech founders believe they have to be ruthless to be successful, ignoring that generosity and empathy are just as essential to leadership and success. And this brings us to a big misconception with technology. Connectivity does not equal connection. We think that having friends or followers means we are connected, in quotation. But that's not true.

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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Real connections are much deeper and more meaningful. People text family members in the same house rather than having a face-to-face conversation. In offices too, I hear stories from friends who say, back in the day, we just turned to the person next to us to chat. Now, even when two people are seated beside each other, one would send a message instead of speaking.

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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All this technology has left us disconnected as human beings. And without real connection, the idea of giving generously without expecting anything in return becomes wearer. This disconnect is a big factor across all cultures and why generosity is harder to come by today.

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. How many people do you know who actually walk into a public restroom and leave it cleaner than they found it? I do. And so does the wife of our guest.

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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Monty has worked directly with legends like Mark Benioff of Salesforce, Andy Gross of Intel, Steve Jobs, John Chambers of Cisco, and Andy Jassy of Amazon. From these leaders, his own mentors, and his mother, Monty has learned what generosity truly means, why it matters and how to apply it to life and career to become more successful, happier and healthier. Curious to find out more?

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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It seems to me that you are an optimist. You are hopeful about the impact of generosity in the world. Despite the challenges we've discussed, you genuinely and passionately want to help people become more generous. You share insights, you write, you publish books to get the message out there. Would you say that's accurate? That you believe we can still build a more generous society?

Chief Change Officer

#148 Monte Wood: Generosity as Your Secret Career Hack (and It Works!) – Part Two

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One where leaders and individuals alike can grow to be more generous, happier, and ultimately more successful?

Chief Change Officer

#386 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part Two

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Now for my last question, this one is a bit personal. You talk about change, the future and human skills, but you're also a mother. Your daughter is still a student studying at one of the top schools in the States. How have you personally nurtured her to be a future-ready human? And if she ever came to you and said, Mom, I need to figure out my future career direction, how would you guide her?

Chief Change Officer

#386 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we're talking about the future of work, innovation, and why most companies make change way harder than it needs to be.

Chief Change Officer

#386 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part Two

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Yeah, I completely relate to that. It's not just a US thing. It's universal. Back in the 80s, when I was in middle school, my father gave me a book about how getting an MBA was the golden passport to success. And back then, that was true, especially in banking and consulting. By the time I finished my MBA studies in 2002, right after 911, the economy wasn't great.

Chief Change Officer

#386 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part Two

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But finance was still one of the best paying industries. I got into it. In terms of salary, it was good. But at some point, I felt lost. I had followed the standard playbook, but I had no real sense of who I was. I wish someone like you had spoken to me back then, given me real, genuine advice about the future.

Chief Change Officer

#386 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part Two

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let's get started simplicity matters not just for organizations and teams to work more efficient simplicity matters not just for organizations and teams to work more efficiently and productively but also for us as individuals When we first met, you mentioned that this concept applies to everyone. And I completely agree.

Chief Change Officer

#386 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part Two

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So I'm curious, when raising your daughter, did you do anything special to make her more future-sensitive, more future-ready?

Chief Change Officer

#386 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part Two

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The last question I asked about your parenting is because I really believe in walking the walk, talking the talk when it comes to leadership. And you, as both a leader and a parent, I think role modeling is everything. Maybe in a future episode, we can focus more on future humans. How we raise the next generation to be ready for what's ahead. A lot of listeners might be parents themselves.

Chief Change Officer

#386 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part Two

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They may not have your exact background and resources, but they are shaping the future in their own families. My parents never had the chance to learn from people like you. But today's parents do, and that's powerful.

Chief Change Officer

#386 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part Two

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They can take inspiration from your approach, how to raise future-ready humans, not just in terms of careers, but as responsible, creative, value-added adults who contribute to their community, to the world. This could be a really great conversation for next time. I love it.

Chief Change Officer

#386 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part Two

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And that's where I'll leave you. We've tackled everything from future thinking to eliminating workplace chaos. And why simplicity isn't just a strategy, it's a survival skill. The real question now is, what's one thing you can stop doing today that will make room for something better? Think about it. Big thanks to Lisa for sharing her intelligence and insights.

Chief Change Officer

#386 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#386 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part Two

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Especially in today's world, social media, endless noise, misinformation is super overwhelming. And with mental health being a major issue, simplifying our lives feels more important than ever. So how can we do that? How can we personally practice simplicity in a way that helps us stay focused, clear-headed, and mentally strong?

Chief Change Officer

#386 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part Two

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Yeah, as you were explaining, it reminded me of my own corporate days. Looking back, I think a big reason I burnt out was because I did not practice some of the things we just mentioned. Saying no, setting boundaries, not taking on everything that came my way. And that hustle culture we saw over the last 10 years, especially in tech and entrepreneurship, only made it worse.

Chief Change Officer

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Everyone was always on the go, jumping from meeting to meeting, catching flights, attached to their phones as if being constantly busy meant being successful. But these same ideas about simplicity apply to personal life too. Half the things we own, we don't even need to buy them. And if we buy them but never use them, they just turn into clutter.

Chief Change Officer

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Even small things like deleting old files, clearing out storage make a difference. Sure, maybe you have a big house, a basement full of stuff, but it is not useful. What is the point? I was just talking to a friend about getting rid of things before a bag moves, and it really hit me. Simplicity is key.

Chief Change Officer

#386 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part Two

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My guest is Lisa Burdell, the top 40 global speaker on simplification, innovation, and change, as well as the CEO of FutureThink. She's helped companies like Google and Pfizer cut through the clutter, kill heinous rules, and actually get things done. In this two-part series, we'll dive into her journey, how she went from advertising to futurism, why most organizations resist change,

Chief Change Officer

#386 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part Two

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Let's move on to something closely related. Mental health, productivity, and of course, the future. Earlier, you mentioned how everyone these days calls themselves an AI expert. But the reality is, AI isn't just hype. It's not a passing trend. It is a new paradigm, a new economy, and it's here to stay. Now, you and I are on the same page about this.

Chief Change Officer

#386 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part Two

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Human skills or what I call human intelligence are going to become more important, not less. In fact, I believe they will become a premium asset while technology itself becomes a commodity. Think about it. Apps, automation, AI tools, they're all becoming more accessible, more standardized.

Chief Change Officer

#386 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part Two

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But deep human skills like critical thinking, independent thinking, storytelling, problem solving, connecting with people, those are irreplaceable. Those are unique. The challenge, though, is that we've lost a lot of these skills over the last 10, 20, even 30 years. I talk about this often on my show, how social media, for example, has contributed to this decline.

Chief Change Officer

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We've lost the art of thinking, writing, and real human connection. Lisa, I know this is something you think about a lot, Looking ahead, how do you see this playing out? How can we rediscover and nurture our human skills in a world increasingly dominated by AI? What needs to change?

Chief Change Officer

#386 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part Two

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As you were sharing, I started thinking about how school used to be, how we had all these different subjects, mathematics, English, French, history, biology, chemistry. Some of us love math, some hate it. Some are naturally good at languages or humanities. Now, imagine if schools today didn't just teach subjects, but instead focused on specific human skills.

Chief Change Officer

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Curiosity, critical thinking, problem solving, empathy, adaptability. Just like some kids are naturally drawn to math or writing. Maybe some will be more inclined towards curiosity as a skill, while others might naturally excel in problem solving.

Chief Change Officer

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If we started recognizing human skills as areas of talent, just like academic subjects, it could completely reshape the way we educate not just kids, but also working professionals. Maybe that's part of the future of learning. a shift from memorizing subjects to mastering the skills that truly set us apart in an AI-centric world.

Chief Change Officer

#386 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part Two

and how simplicity is the secret weapon for real innovation. We'll also unpack why AI won't replace human skills, but overcomplicated systems just might. If you've ever sat in a meeting thinking this could have been an email, you won't want to miss this one.

Chief Change Officer

#385 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part One

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You own it, you run future think and this is the work you do. I checked out the website and you got a huge range of courses, training organizations and teams to drive change, innovate and adapt. But one theme that keeps coming up is simplicity. It's something you clearly champion. So let's talk about that. On an organizational level, what does simplicity mean to you?

Chief Change Officer

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And why is this so important in driving real change?

Chief Change Officer

#385 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part One

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You've worked with so many different companies, small, medium, and big. Without naming names, can you share an example? Let's say a business comes to you and says, hey, Lisa, I want to work with you. What does that process look like? I'm curious, what kind of things do you typically help them get rid of? Can you walk us through an example?

Chief Change Officer

#385 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we're talking about the future of work, innovation, and why most companies make change way harder than it needs to be.

Chief Change Officer

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Simplicity matters, not just for organizations and teams to work more efficiently. Simplicity matters, not just for organizations and teams to work more efficiently and productively, but also for us as individuals. When we first met, you mentioned that this concept applies to everyone, and I completely agree.

Chief Change Officer

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Especially in today's world, social media, endless noise, misinformation is super overwhelming. And with mental health being a major issue, simplifying our lives feels more important than ever. So how can we do that? How can we personally practice simplicity in a way that helps us stay focused, clear-headed, and mentally strong?

Chief Change Officer

#385 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part One

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Sure, Lisa. You've done a lot and you are still doing a lot. through FutureThink, the platform you started 20 years ago. That was before the iPhone, before AI became mainstream. Yet, you were already thinking ahead, already focused on the future. Now, 20 years is a long journey, and I know we can't cover everything in just one conversation. So let's focus on the key moments.

Chief Change Officer

#385 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part One

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That's it for today. We've unpacked Lisa's journey from an agency to futurism and why most companies make change way harder than it needs to be. But there's more. Next time, we are diving into the real problem holding back innovation. Complexity. Lisa shares how she's helped companies like Google and Pfizer keep pointless rules, simplify work, and free up time for what actually matters.

Chief Change Officer

#385 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part One

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If you've ever felt buried under unnecessary tasks, you won't want to miss part two. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#385 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part One

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Let's start with your story. Before FutureThink, what led you to this? What triggered you to start it? Maybe a bit of your background, both personal and career. And then how FutureThink has evolved over the last two decades. Let's start there.

Chief Change Officer

#385 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part One

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Wow. So in your own career, you started in the corporate world and then transitioned out. And this was way before coaching, entrepreneurship, and tech startups became mainstreamed. You've been in the consulting and coaching space for a long time. Looking back, how would you describe your own evolution? Would you call it reinvention?

Chief Change Officer

#385 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part One

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When you made the move, stepping out of that safety net into solo entrepreneurship, what was that experience like?

Chief Change Officer

#385 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part One

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You started this journey way ahead of the curve before it was the norm. And it must have been scary. It was definitely risky. Were there moments when you thought, maybe I should just go back to corporate America? Did you ever question your decision?

Chief Change Officer

#385 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part One

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Earlier, you mentioned learning about futurism, how you got inspired by someone in the field, study it, and eventually step into that role yourself. Now you are helping organizations navigate their future. Before we dive into organizational change, I want to ask more about your journey.

Chief Change Officer

#385 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part One

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When you took that leap of faith, when you left behind the old path to create a new future for yourself, did you already have a clear vision? Did you see exactly where you were heading? Did you know, this is it, this is my future, these are the steps I need to take? Or were you still figuring things out, navigating as you went?

Chief Change Officer

#385 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part One

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My guest is Lisa Burdell, the top 40 global speaker on simplification, innovation, and change, as well as the CEO of FutureThink. She's helped companies like Google and Pfizer cut through the clutter, kill pointless rules, and actually get things done. In this two-part series, we'll dive into her journey, how she went from advertising to futurism, why most organizations resist change,

Chief Change Officer

#385 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part One

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As you were explaining, I kept thinking about decision trees. I studied finance. And back in business school, we actually covered this in a class that connected economics with strategy. Professors taught us about decision trees. And if you go deep into the math, you get into multi-color simulations, big data, and statistical models. But stepping away from the numbers, the idea still applies.

Chief Change Officer

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Different scenarios lead to different risks, different uncertainties, and different possible paths. And from what you've shared so far, futurists help people Master change, not just react to it, but own it, master it, and drive it. Over the last 10 years, the term futurist has become much more common. A lot of people now call themselves one.

Chief Change Officer

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So basically, what you're saying is that futurism is both a science and an art. It's packed by models, data, and research, but at the same time, is shaped by real-life experience. When you work with clients, it's not just about the numbers. You can actually guide them on what to do, what not to do, what risks to watch for and where the real opportunities are.

Chief Change Officer

#385 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part One

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Last time, I spoke with a guest who has worked with companies like Microsoft and Amazon, helping them with communication, marketing, and narrative. Now he has his own practice. Basically, you could call him a storyteller. So I asked him, Hey Chris, everybody calls themselves a storyteller these days. What do you think? And of course, he has his own take.

Chief Change Officer

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In fact, he calls himself a strategic narrative advisor. because he still works with executives and companies, but wanted a title that better reflects what he actually does. Storytelling is one of those terms that gets thrown around a lot, maybe even overused, and I feel like futurist is the same way. That's why I wanted to ask about your interpretation what futurist truly means to you.

Chief Change Officer

#385 Lisa Bodell: Stop Drowning in Complexity—How Simplicity Fuels Innovation — Part One

and how simplicity is the secret weapon for real innovation. We'll also unpack why AI won't replace human skills, but overcomplicated systems just might. If you've ever sat in a meeting thinking this could have been an email, you won't want to miss this one. Let's get started. Lisa, good morning to you. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. I'm so excited to host you.

Chief Change Officer

#76 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part Two

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He's the author of Living a Values-Based Life and the creator of the leadership model called Excellent Decisions. In this two-part series, we'll dive into what values really mean, why they matter for leading fulfilling careers and lives, and why figuring out our values can be challenging. We'll also explore how to make our values visible and sustainable in a world that's constantly changing.

Chief Change Officer

#76 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. A few years ago, I joined a growing venture as the chief people officer. It lasted just six weeks.

Chief Change Officer

#76 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part Two

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Robert, we've got a lot of good stuff today in our interview. Any final message you'd like to share with the audience?

Chief Change Officer

#76 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part Two

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I like your quote. without implementation is just a nice conversation. Thank you so much, Robert.

Chief Change Officer

#76 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#76 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part Two

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If you feel stuck in your current workplace, it's not necessarily your fault. Often, it's just a misalignment of values. Don't bend your values to fit in. Instead, find a place and a tribe whose values resonate with yours. That's where true happiness and success lie. Let's dive in. My follow-up question is about what happens after we identify our values.

Chief Change Officer

#76 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part Two

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Even if we genuinely figure out and believe in them, whatever those values are, like honesty, humanity, the next step is the hardest, practicing them consistently. How do you advise your clients to implement their values in daily life? For businesses, this could be challenging, but equally difficult for individuals. Even with the best intentions, staying mindful and consistent isn't easy.

Chief Change Officer

#76 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part Two

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How do you suggest we monitor and sustain our actions to align with our values? Talk is cheap. I believe talk and talk and walk the walk matters when it comes to implementation of values. If I were your client asking, we've identified my values. What do I do next? How would you guide me?

Chief Change Officer

#76 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part Two

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To that CEO, I may have seemed incompetent, but I knew exactly why I had to leave so quickly. It was a major clash of values. I believe in being true and ethical in both words and deeds, while he thrived on a man-made facade of showmanship and hypocrisy. Knowing my values made the decision clear. This experience ties directly to today's guest. Robert Mercier.

Chief Change Officer

#76 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part Two

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Do values change over time with new experiences and perspectives?

Chief Change Officer

#76 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part Two

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As you were sharing, I couldn't help but think... is not just about the different stages of our lives or the roles we play. For example, I transitioned from corporate life to entrepreneurship, moving from a world of abundant resources to one where I'm spending my own money testing ideas and navigating uncertainties. Big changes like these influence our values,

Chief Change Officer

#76 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part Two

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Now, one could argue that if I value honesty, it should stay constant regardless of my circumstances. True, but even the interpretation or perception of honesty evolves over time. As I play new roles and build up different experiences, I found that how I uphold honesty adapts For example, with certain people or situations, I might feel the need to stand firm in my values.

Chief Change Officer

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But with others, especially those who don't operate, honestly, I might decide it's not worth engaging or holding them to the same standard. is not about abandoning my value, but recognizing when and how to apply it. This evolution, I think, speaks to how our brains collect data and adjust over time. Sometimes is a conscious recalibration.

Chief Change Officer

#76 From Parking Cars to Parking Purpose: Robert MacPhee on Living a Values-Driven Life — Part Two

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Other times is our minds engaging in what I call self-justification. helping us rationalize our actions in ways that align with what we want to believe. So when values may shift, the interpretation and application of those values change as we grow and learn.

Chief Change Officer

#247 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. If you've been listening to my show, you know I bring guests from all corners of the world to share their stories.

Chief Change Officer

#247 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part One

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So far, we've covered a lot about narrative and storytelling in a business context. But as you mentioned earlier, Narrative can also play a powerful role at an individual level for leaders, for people in career transitions, or even entrepreneurs building a new venture. My next question naturally is, how do we apply narrative and story to individual situations?

Chief Change Officer

#247 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part One

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Could you walk us through some examples to help administrators

Chief Change Officer

#247 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part One

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Just now, Chris shared with us his expertise in helping businesses craft compelling corporate stories and educate us to understand the connection between story and narrative. Tomorrow in part two, we'll look at storytelling for personal transformation as Chris shares some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard. He will also open up about his own mental wellness challenge.

Chief Change Officer

#247 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part One

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In this three-part series, we'll journey through Chris' experiences in three stages. Today, in part one, we'll explore his expertise in helping businesses compelling corporate stories and understand the connection between story and narrative. Tomorrow in part two, we'll look at storytelling for personal transformation as Chris shares some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard

Chief Change Officer

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Come back and join us tomorrow. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#247 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part One

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he will also open up about his own mental health challenge. Then in part three, he'll introduce tools we can use to develop our own stories and narratives. And here's a personal confession. I told him one of his exercises might just make me cry. I'll also be sharing my own experience with an other exercise, highlighting both his challenges and insights.

Chief Change Officer

#247 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part One

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So let's dive into the first chapter of Chris' story. Good morning to you, Chris. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#247 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part One

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Chris is also a podcast host, so it's a pleasure to have him on my show today. Hopefully, I'll get a chance to return the favor and join his show one day. Now, Chris has a ton of experience in storytelling. And as many of my listeners know, I ask every guest to share their story.

Chief Change Officer

#247 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part One

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So inviting a storyteller like Chris to dive into his personal journey and share his approach to storytelling feels like a perfect fit for this episode. Chris, let's kick things off with your story. Give us an overview and then we'll dig into different elements of your journey.

Chief Change Officer

#247 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part One

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So you started your storytelling journey by helping corporations shape and share their narratives. And now you've shifted the focus to individuals. Is that right?

Chief Change Officer

#247 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part One

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We hear the term storytelling used so frequently. But before we dive into your approach, I notice that you also frequently use another term, narrative. Could you explain the difference between stories and narratives and why that distinction matters?

Chief Change Officer

#247 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part One

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Through these stories, we dive into hindsight, insights, and foresight for you, the progressive-minded listeners who crave change. Whether you're navigating a career shift a personal transformation like health challenges or driving change in your organization or community, there's something here for you. Today's episode has a unique twist.

Chief Change Officer

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In mass media, we hear the term storytelling used almost everywhere, maybe even overused. It seems like everyone is calling themselves a storyteller these days. But when you mention narrative, it seems like you are getting at something different. Could you use an analogy to help illustrate the difference or even the link between a narrative and a story?

Chief Change Officer

#247 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part One

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So as I understand it, narrative and story really reinforce each other. If I'm hearing you correctly, you're saying that a narrative isn't static. It can evolve over time. For example, in a business context, you might start with one narrative that helps attract customers or business partners.

Chief Change Officer

#247 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part One

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Those people in turn generate their own stories, which marketing and communications teams can collect to learn more about the customers and their experiences. These stories then help to reshape or even reposition the narrative, potentially attracting a new segment of the market. Would you say that's a fair summary of how narrative and story interact?

Chief Change Officer

#247 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part One

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I'm interviewing a storytelling expert to share his own story. My guest, Chris Hare, is a strategic narrative advisor and coach for companies like Amazon and Microsoft, guiding leaders and executives with his approach called Atomic Storytelling. His method breaks down complex stories into their cool, resonant elements.

Chief Change Officer

#247 Chris Hare: When the Story Guy Becomes the Story — Part One

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Is the narrative essentially part of the branding or is it something bigger? In other words, does the narrative serve as an umbrella under which the brand and all its messaging operates? Or are they distinct but closely related? How would you explain the relationship between narrative and brand in a business context?

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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So the talent supply comes from Sri Lanka, and the demand for such talent is mainly from small and medium-sized service firms, particularly in the States, focusing on roles like operations and marketing. Your vision is to accelerate and scale this model to connect global talent with global demand. Is that correct?

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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I've seen business models like this before, essentially redistributing skills and talent by connecting supply and demand more closely. Now, there are a couple of major trends impacting the workplace and the workforce, not just in the U.S., but globally. I imagine they affect your agency's approach in solving problems for both sides. One of the hottest topics, of course, is AI.

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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You mentioned that you place roles like admin, operations, and marketing. areas where AI is increasingly capable of taking over tasks. So I'd like to pick your brain on how you balance this shift. How do you navigate the balance between providing human talent and accommodating clients who might prefer tech solutions over human ones.

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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It's about doing what feels right, collecting data points and experiences, adjusting course as needed, and simply forging ahead. Let's dive into the ocean of Ian Myers.

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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So what you are saying is, while there are areas where AI can add value for cost or efficiency reasons, you still believe that there is a significant demand for human contribution in the roles you place?

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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Another trend gaining momentum in the workplace is ageism. And it's not just affecting the older population. It impacts younger people too. Looking back at my early career in finance, an industry dominated by men, and in the US, primarily white men, I faced challenges being an Asian woman in that space. So I'm curious about your experience. While ageism may not be your main focus,

Chief Change Officer

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As part of the talent ecosystem, how do you approach this issue? Are you working to build a team that's not just culturally diverse, but also inclusive across age groups? And do you have strategies in place to help people of different ages amplify the skills and talents?

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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Good morning, Ian. Yes, it's evening time for me. Welcome to our show. You got a lot, a lot of things to share today, but let's start with your history, your background. You're fairly young, so let's start with your academic background, then we'll move on to your professional experiences.

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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That's an interesting example you brought up about Japan. I actually just got back from Japan myself. and had a conversation with a good friend there. He's 49. He has exited his last business, and now he's building a new venture focused on closing the gender gap.

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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He mentioned that as a man, he has enjoyed all the benefits from the system, but he has a 17-year-old daughter, and he wants a society to be more welcoming for her when she enters the workforce. In Japan, alongside ageism, gender inequality is surely a significant issue. Now, as a company leader and founder, you have the autonomy to shape your team with your own values.

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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But when it comes to sourcing talent for your clients, do they mainly focus on cost efficiency, just looking to fill positions at the lowest cost possible? Or among your 300 clients, Do you see a genuine interest in prioritizing diversity when it comes to factors like age and gender? I'm curious how your clients approach these issues.

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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So it sounds like you are very aware of these issues. I understand that a big part of your value proposition centers around cost efficiency, which makes sense. But when clients express specific preferences, whether it's related to diversity, age, or other factors, Do you approach each case individually to make your judgment on what's the right call? How do you determine where to draw the line?

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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I want to wrap up our conversation with one final question. linking back to something you mentioned at the beginning. When I asked you to introduce yourself, you started with your academic background, which makes sense, but you also brought up an important point. Now that we're heading into 2025, many young people, those younger than you and me, are questioning the value of a degree.

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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They wonder what kind of degree makes sense. Is it all about AI now for career prospects? Or should they pursue something that are interesting and meaningful to them like you did for personal fulfillment? Given your experience,

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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in both the talent industry and your own educational path, what advice would you give to those listeners who are making these tough decisions about college and career paths? Should they follow their gut and passion or align their choices with the tech-driven reality we see today?

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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Exactly. It's truly an era of chaos. And now you know why I called this show Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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That's exactly right. No one can truly calculate change or predict every outcome with absolute accuracy. I completely agree with you. It's all about centering on yourself. It's not about being self-centered, but rather understanding what aligns with your values and vision. It's about knowing what works for you and what doesn't.

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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As you mentioned earlier, it's not always about having everything calculated or planned out. Sometimes it's about going with what feels right. If something doesn't resonate, you move on. These instincts and tendencies are valuable data points They are guides that help us navigate the journey ahead.

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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Thank you for your kind words. This is very encouraging. One of the best comments I've ever received so far. And of course, thank you for all your sharing in your time. and for working with me to create an out-of-the-box storytelling for this episode. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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Great. We'll definitely talk more about Oceans in the second part of our interview. Now back to your personal journey. You mentioned that you actually moved aboard to Japan, to other Asian countries. And I believe you, in the grad school, Stanford in particular, you were into Buddhism, is that right?

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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would you say that your exposure to Buddhism, philosophy, and Eastern culture has influenced your approach to investing, entrepreneurship, and even your overall life philosophy today? I'm originally from Hong Kong, so I did the opposite. I studied and immersed myself in Western culture, which has shaped a lot of how I think and conduct myself.

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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I'm curious about the impact Eastern culture and Buddhism have had on you as an American, especially when it comes to running and building businesses.

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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Early on, you mentioned that you started with literature, moving on to international relations. Then you moved to Japan. got the chance to connect with someone in banking, which led you into finance and investment. From there, you learned about building businesses, and eventually you started your own companies. Looking back at all these transitions,

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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On most podcasts, you'll hear him share stories about scaling his company from zero to over $10 million in revenue in under two years, or his insights into venture investment. But today, I'm not interested in those stories. They are surely impressive, but not the full picture. What fascinates me about Ian is that, like me, he is a fan of Tintin.

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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What would you say are the common themes or real drivers behind them? I ask this to many of my guests. Some say they've always been self-starters, while others say life is all about learning and that each change was a way to learn something new. What about you? What are the themes or drivers that have shaped your journey so far?

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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You are like Tintin. For those listening, when I first spoke with Ian about this interview, I discovered we had a common interest, a mutual admiration for Tintin. The adventurous is Blora, always eager to dive into new places and experiences. Just like Tintin, Ian's got that same curiosity and spirit for discovery.

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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Wow. People at your age usually see Sam Altman, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, all the tech titans as their role models. Yet, you say Tintin is your role model.

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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Your firm is called Ocean. I see that you are swimming in this vast ocean of the future of work. What fascinates you about this industry, about the challenges in this space that made you dive into this big ocean and decide to leave your mark?

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm chatting with Ian Myers from New York, founder and CEO of Oceans, a modern talent agency connecting high-skilled talent from Sri Lanka with US businesses.

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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Tintin's spirit of adventure clearly impacts Ian's own approach to work and life. From the US to Japan, from literature to banking, venture capital to entrepreneurship, and gaming to launching a talent agency. He's been on a true journey. What is his secret to success? It's not about over-calculating.

Chief Change Officer

#113 Connecting the Dots: Ian Myers on Finding Brilliant Global Talent for America

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Specifically, who are your top clients and what kinds of problems do you help solve?

Chief Change Officer

#337 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Founders Most Systems Miss

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Moving from corporate roles to entrepreneurship, to taking risks. The challenges can be very daunting for more mature individuals. So my question for you is, if an entrepreneur from Gen X or the baby boomer generation approaches you, wanting to do something meaningful to create a legacy.

Chief Change Officer

#337 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Founders Most Systems Miss

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She'll discuss the why behind her actions, what Wiseheart is exactly, who the target customers are, and how she plans to help these people. Lastly, where the name Wiseheart originated. If you're just joining this series, I strongly encourage you to check out the previous two parts.

Chief Change Officer

#337 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Founders Most Systems Miss

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They have ideas that could solve problems in industry they've known for decades, but they may not be as tech savvy as a lot of people perceive them that way. Or the pitch is not modern or sexy. How would you advise them? How would you help them balance the passion for the project with the logical aspects of launching a new venture at late age?

Chief Change Officer

#337 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Founders Most Systems Miss

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. If you've been following closely our special three-part Love & Logic series, you know this episode is the final session, the finale of our trilogy, so to speak.

Chief Change Officer

#337 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Founders Most Systems Miss

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We started the series by focusing on Waverly's personal journey, the love and logic behind her career path and experiences. Then in part two, we explored a significant chapter of her career, 22 years at Chicago Bull. There, she taught and coached a well-defined group of highly logical talents who were passionate about innovation, change, and entrepreneurship.

Chief Change Officer

#337 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Founders Most Systems Miss

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It's not just about... tricking your mindset or upgrading your skill, learning new technologies and branching out, the market itself is transforming. I see a future where new types of jobs and careers emerge, roles we haven't even imagined The names or labels for these positions might not even exist today.

Chief Change Officer

#337 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Founders Most Systems Miss

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But give it a year, two or three years max, thanks to advancement in AI and other technologies, we're going to see work processes and roles evolve in ways we can't yet imagine. I view this shifting career landscape not just as a transition, but as an origin of growth opportunities for everyone, whether they are in 40s, 50s, or even 60s. Health is, of course, a vital consideration.

Chief Change Officer

#337 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Founders Most Systems Miss

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As long as we are healthy, those of us with sound minds and cross-generational experience, particularly in people skills and relationship building, will find immense value. These skills are crucial even for AI-focused tech companies like OpenAI. They're looking for individuals who can bridge the human technology gap, making these seemingly complex more approachable and human relevant.

Chief Change Officer

#337 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Founders Most Systems Miss

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So we are at the end of our interview, hopefully. This is the first time in my podcast that I create a three-part series on a single topic and a single guest. You are the first person. How do you find this experience yourself?

Chief Change Officer

#337 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Founders Most Systems Miss

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That's one important question I haven't asked you yet. I kind of guessed the reason, but I'd like you to share with us in the show the name of your firm, Wiseheart. Any thought process behind that? Could you share your little secret with us?

Chief Change Officer

#337 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Founders Most Systems Miss

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From that structured environment, we transitioned to discussing her current role as a coach for a broader and more diverse group of entrepreneurs. We also touched on the topic of AI human coaching, where AI serves as the powerhouse of logic. While AI can create flawless pitch decks and resumes, Waverly emphasizes that building a business is about fostering human relationships.

Chief Change Officer

#337 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Founders Most Systems Miss

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So, Waverly, thank you so much. We got so much good insights from you today. So, I definitely would invite you back for another session. Thank you so much for your time.

Chief Change Officer

#337 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Founders Most Systems Miss

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A special thanks to Waverly for sharing two hours of her valuable time for such amazing and candid conversation. That's a wrap on our three-part series on love and logic. For those who appreciate Waverly's insights and teachings, be sure to explore the other two episodes of this series if you enjoyed this finale. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

Chief Change Officer

#337 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Founders Most Systems Miss

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#337 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Founders Most Systems Miss

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AI might set the stage. but it's the human touch that builds real connections with investors and employers. Let our finale begin. Let's dive into your newest venture, Wiseheart. I'm really curious about how you plan to continue supporting entrepreneurs with this new initiative. Over the years, you've coached and judged so many entrepreneurs. So for a moment, let's switch gears.

Chief Change Officer

#337 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Founders Most Systems Miss

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I'll put on my coach's hat and step into the shoes of a new venture challenge judge. Imagine you're now pitching Wiseheart to me. So tell me, what exactly is Wiseheart? What's the core mission there? Whose problem are you trying to tackle? I'd like to learn more about the specific characteristics of the people you're trying to help.

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#337 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Founders Most Systems Miss

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More importantly, how are you going about addressing their challenges?

Chief Change Officer

#337 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Founders Most Systems Miss

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Today, we'll come full circle and refocus on Waverly herself. She spent 22 years teaching at Chicago Booth, where one of her signature courses was building new ventures. Now, she is building her own venture called Wiseheart. In this episode, you'll hear her pitch. As you listen to our conversation, put on your entrepreneur coach hat and ask yourself, How compelling is her pitch?

Chief Change Officer

#337 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Founders Most Systems Miss

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Absolutely. I remember your tagline, tough love for entrepreneurs. I also recall that a few years back, you published an article about LGBTQ entrepreneurs in the Chicago Booth Review. I read the article myself, and it highlighted how underrepresented this group is in the entrepreneurial community. From what I remember, you discussed challenges like funding and general support.

Chief Change Officer

#337 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Founders Most Systems Miss

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It wouldn't surprise me if you planned to focus more on supporting them going forward.

Chief Change Officer

#337 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Founders Most Systems Miss

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Yeah, who knows what the future holds, especially with the election coming up. You mentioned the ongoing issues with LGBTQ identities being illegal in many places. It's a complex landscape. I also want to touch on ageism and other critical but often overlooked diversity issues. You are a baby boomer with extensive experience across various technological and economic cycles.

Chief Change Officer

#337 Waverly Deutsch: Coaching the Founders Most Systems Miss

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Speaking of age, many of our listeners, whether Gen X like myself or baby boomers like you might have retired or been laid off for various reasons. Yet, despite their valuable experience, they face entrenched ageism in the workplace and in entrepreneurship. As we discuss how to balance the heart and the head, love and logic, when making career decisions involving

Chief Change Officer

#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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Second, I selected those who knew me well enough, spending various parts of my life, some friendships going back 30 years, others from the last decade. I intentionally created a diverse pool to get a wide range of viewpoints. Additionally, these friends saw me in different roles and at different times, so they each had unique perspectives on my evolution.

Chief Change Officer

#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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I aimed for a meaningful balance, enough for people to get diverse insights, but not so many that the feedback would become irrelevant. I felt 50 was just right. More wouldn't have added value if the people were not as closely connected with me.

Chief Change Officer

#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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Superpower? First of all, most of them mentioned that I am a deep thinker. Words like logical, analytical, and persistent came up frequently. Once I decide to pursue something, They see me as unwavering in following in through. Interestingly, some offered perspectives I had not considered myself.

Chief Change Officer

#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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For example, Waverly Dorch, my former professor from Chicago Booth, who is also my guest on the show in Season 2 if anyone is interested, She commented on my ability to do math and tell stories, which, in her words, is a rare combination. I took this as a positive compliment given her unique background. She is a Ph.D. in theater history.

Chief Change Officer

#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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with an undergrad degree in computer science, combining both artistic and quantitative strengths in her teaching of entrepreneurship and business. Her lens on my skills was influenced by her own experience as someone who bridges the gap between art and science. One takeaway here is that the people you choose to ask for feedback come with their own perspectives.

Chief Change Officer

#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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The insights into your strengths are inevitably influenced and limited by their backgrounds. That's why selecting a diverse group thoughtfully chosen for their varied experiences is key to gaining a well-rounded understanding of your superpowers.

Chief Change Officer

#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. If you've been listening to my show, you know I bring guests from all corners of the world to share their stories.

Chief Change Officer

#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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Exactly. And that's the key point I want to emphasize. This is precisely why AI cannot replace the human touch. AI has incredible data capacity and can assist in generating a vast amount of content, but it lacks the nuanced understanding that comes from genuine human connection.

Chief Change Officer

#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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Hallucination issues aside, even when it comes to reading emotions, we still don't have technology that truly reflects the depth of understanding needed. Some advancements are being made in emotion detection, But it's far from capturing the authentic experience of sitting across from someone, reading their body language, responding naturally, and engaging in a meaningful, unscripted conversation.

Chief Change Officer

#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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In this three-part series, we'll journey through Chris' experiences in three stages. In the last two days, part one, part two, We've explored his expertise in helping businesses craft compelling corporate stories and understand the connection between story and narrative.

Chief Change Officer

#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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That's where the human element remains irreplaceable.

Chief Change Officer

#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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Chris, I really want to thank you for your time today. You've been incredibly generous, actually giving me a full 90 minutes of your time.

Chief Change Officer

#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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We've also looked at storytelling for personal transformation as Chris shared some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard or felt. He has also opened up about his own mental health challenges. Today, part three, he'll introduce tools we can use to develop our own stories and narratives. And here's a personal confession. I told him one of his exercises might just make me cry.

Chief Change Officer

#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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I'll also be sharing my own experience with another exercise, highlighting both its challenges and insights. So let's dive into the final chapter of Chris' story. So for those listening, who might not have direct access to professional guidance, what can they do to craft and shape their own stories?

Chief Change Officer

#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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Whether they are in career transition, facing personal challenges, or just feeling stuck, what would you suggest as essential steps for creating a story that truly resonates with who they are?

Chief Change Officer

#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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Through these stories, we dive into hindsight, insights, and foresight for you, the progressive-minded listeners who crave change. Whether you're navigating a career shift a personal transformation like health challenges or driving change in your organization or community, there's something here for you. Today's episode has a unique twist.

Chief Change Officer

#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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First, let me admit, the movie theater exercise is something I'll definitely want to try. Please do send me the worksheet. I can imagine that if I were in that theater alone, I would likely cry even though I'm not typically one to shed tears, not even happy ones. But picturing myself in that situation, not so much at retirement, but maybe at the end of my life, it would move me deeply.

Chief Change Officer

#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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As for the 360-degree feedback, I actually did a version of this a few years ago, not with just three to five people. but with about 50 people across different periods of my life. Some friends from 30 years ago, others from 20 or 10 years back, covering a range of relationships and contexts. I asked each of them to answer, what do you see as my superpower?

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#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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and to share words that came to mind when they thought of me. Each one responded with their unique insights. Elaborating on their thoughts, I took notes on everything, gathered the data points, and even created a spreadsheet to track common themes. My Chicago training pushed me to analyze these patterns, and it was fascinating to see the traits that surfaced across the board.

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#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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That exercise gave me meaningful clarity and reinforced aspects of myself I felt aligned with. It was incredibly helpful.

Chief Change Officer

#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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I'm interviewing a storytelling expert to share his own story. My guest, Chris Hare, is a strategic narrative advisor and coach for companies like Amazon and Microsoft, guiding leaders and executives with his approach called Atomic Storytelling. His method breaks down complex stories into their cool, resonant elements.

Chief Change Officer

#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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Other lesson I learned goes back to my days. as an MBA admissions interviewer. You mentioned input and output, and it got me thinking about how MBA and law programs and similar institutions often shape future alumni and leaders. It's not only about the narrative they tell, it's about how they select candidates.

Chief Change Officer

#308 Chris Hare: Tools to Rewrite Your Story—and Live It Better

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They choose specific types of people with qualities that maximize the likelihood of success. That's why these schools can point to impressive alumni is by design. Why does this relate to the feedback exercise I did with my 50 friends? Because I was equally thoughtful about who I chose. First, I knew they would be willing to give me a solid 30 minutes of their time or even more.

Chief Change Officer

#307 Chris Hare: Rewrite the Story Before It Wrecks You

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Over the years, you've worked with so many people and have seen firsthand how they tell the stories and craft the narratives. So what's the worst story you've ever heard?

Chief Change Officer

#307 Chris Hare: Rewrite the Story Before It Wrecks You

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For you to be where you are now, living the life you want and helping others do the same, you must have transformed your own narrative from a difficult place to a much better one. Before we ask the next question, I'd love to hear if you're open to sharing. How you managed to break free from a narrative that was holding you back?

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#307 Chris Hare: Rewrite the Story Before It Wrecks You

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How did you go about breaking it down and then recomposing it into something much more empowering?

Chief Change Officer

#307 Chris Hare: Rewrite the Story Before It Wrecks You

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. If you've been listening to my show, you know I bring guests from all corners of the world to share their stories.

Chief Change Officer

#307 Chris Hare: Rewrite the Story Before It Wrecks You

134.283

In this three-part series, we'll journey through Chris' experiences in three stages. Yesterday in part one, we explored his expertise in helping businesses craft compelling corporate story and understand the connection between story and narrative. Today in part two, We'll look at storytelling for personal transformation as Chris shares some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard.

Chief Change Officer

#307 Chris Hare: Rewrite the Story Before It Wrecks You

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Absolutely. The quality of the output is directly tied to the quality of what you put in. The better the input, the more authentic and accurate the outcome. That makes perfect sense. Now, let's lighten things up a bit. You've told me about the worst story you've ever heard. Let's flip the script. What is the best story you've come across so far?

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#307 Chris Hare: Rewrite the Story Before It Wrecks You

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He will also open up about his own mental health challenge. Then in part three... He'll introduce tools we can use to develop our own stories and narratives. And here's a personal confession. I told him one of his exercises might just make me cry. I'll also be sharing my own experience with another exercise. highlighting both its challenges and insights.

Chief Change Officer

#307 Chris Hare: Rewrite the Story Before It Wrecks You

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I love what you said about real, real stories, about the struggles, the pains, the real journeys that people experience. And I totally agree. And that's exactly what I do on this show. Authentic stories resonate deeply because they reflect the full spectrum of life, not just the highlights.

Chief Change Officer

#307 Chris Hare: Rewrite the Story Before It Wrecks You

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So for those listening who might not have direct access to professional guidance, what can they do to craft and shape their own stories? Whether they are in career transition, facing personal challenges, or just feeling stuck, what would you suggest? as essential steps for creating a story that truly resonates with who they are.

Chief Change Officer

#307 Chris Hare: Rewrite the Story Before It Wrecks You

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Just now, we looked at storytelling for personal transformation. As Chris shared some of the best and worst stories he's ever heard. He also opened up about his own mental health challenges. Then tomorrow, in part three, he will introduce tools we can use to develop our own stories and narratives. And here is a personal confession. I told him one of his exercises might just make me cry.

Chief Change Officer

#307 Chris Hare: Rewrite the Story Before It Wrecks You

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I'll also be sharing my own experience with an other exercise highlighting both its challenges and insights. Come back and join us tomorrow. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#307 Chris Hare: Rewrite the Story Before It Wrecks You

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So let's dive into the second chapter of Chris' story. So far, we've covered a lot about narrative and storytelling in a business context. But as you mentioned earlier, Narrative can also play a powerful role at an individual level for leaders, for people in career transitions, or even entrepreneurs building a new venture.

Chief Change Officer

#307 Chris Hare: Rewrite the Story Before It Wrecks You

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My next question naturally is, how do we apply narrative and story to individual situations? Could you walk us through some examples to help industry this?

Chief Change Officer

#307 Chris Hare: Rewrite the Story Before It Wrecks You

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Through these stories, we dive into hindsight, insights, and foresight for you, the progressive-minded listeners who crave change. Whether you're navigating a career shift a personal transformation like health challenges or driving change in your organization or community, there's something here for you. Today's episode has a unique twist.

Chief Change Officer

#307 Chris Hare: Rewrite the Story Before It Wrecks You

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It sounds like you are visualizing each story or Lego brick as a piece of who you are, such as experiences, skills, moments, and memories you've collected over the years. Maybe you've built a specific narrative with those bricks, a structure you've told others and taught yourself for a long time.

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#307 Chris Hare: Rewrite the Story Before It Wrecks You

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By working with someone like you or learning your method, it's like I'm reorganizing those bricks in a new way, rearranging them, to create a fresh, evolved narrative. So even though people might say, wow, this is the whole new Vince, it's still me using the same foundational pieces. I'm just combining them differently. Highlighting new connections and themes is like building a new structure.

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#307 Chris Hare: Rewrite the Story Before It Wrecks You

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But every piece is part of my story. Just reimagine.

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#307 Chris Hare: Rewrite the Story Before It Wrecks You

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My own sense of self-awareness has grown over time. Now, I talk to different people, like entrepreneurs, who say, Oh, I know myself better than anyone else. And they have a lot of confidence in their own self-awareness. But telling our own story, crafting our narrative, or even deciding which bricks to use and how to arrange them isn't that easy because we all have blind spots.

Chief Change Officer

#307 Chris Hare: Rewrite the Story Before It Wrecks You

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So my question for you is, what are some common blind spots or barriers that make telling our own story or building self-awareness so challenging? And why is it helpful to bring in someone like you to help with this process?

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#307 Chris Hare: Rewrite the Story Before It Wrecks You

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Right.

Chief Change Officer

#307 Chris Hare: Rewrite the Story Before It Wrecks You

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I'm interviewing a storytelling expert to share his own story. My guest, Chris Hare, is a strategic narrative advisor and coach for companies like Amazon and Microsoft, guiding leaders and executives with his approach called Atomic Storytelling. His method breaks down complex stories into their cool, resonant elements.

Chief Change Officer

#142 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part Two

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You are a servant leader. You are the type who wants to make others shine. If you can help your team members grow, to become better people, better leaders, better managers, then you are the silent force behind the success.

Chief Change Officer

#142 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part Two

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And it's safe to say he sees life and business leadership as a journey too. We have talked for about an hour, split into two parts. In the last episode, part one, we touched upon the genesis and evolution of 24-hour race. What started as a casual suggestion on a rainy day turned into a life-changing journey for a teenager.

Chief Change Officer

#142 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part Two

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This is the last question of the day. It has two parts. I see you as a purposeful leader and a world explorer, skilled in technology, but always human-centered. Yet, in a place like Hong Kong, where both of us are from, there's often a set path. Study finance, engineering, medicine, become a doctor, lawyer, or banker, for example. You chose a different path.

Chief Change Officer

#142 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part Two

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You didn't follow the typical expectations. Yet you grew up in an environment where those expectations are strong. So the first part of my question is about the people around you, such as your parents, family members, and friends. How did they influence and support you in becoming who you are today? The second part is about leading a purposeful life and career.

Chief Change Officer

#142 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part Two

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We are all in some kind of pursuit of success and fulfillment, but there's always a lot of noise. External pressures, expectations, people telling you what you should and shouldn't do. How do you balance all of that while staying true to your own purpose and building a life that feels fulfilling to you? It's a big question, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

Chief Change Officer

#142 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part Two

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The walk across England raised five-figure in US dollars and sparked an eight-figure US dollar global movement at the end. Today's episode, part two, We'll focus on Chris' approach to leadership and team building, drawing parallels between leading an expedition and managing a business team.

Chief Change Officer

#142 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part Two

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Here, we'll highlight how lessons learned from life or death situations in the wilderness translate into effective leadership strategies. in the corporate world. Chris also offers his genuine advice for young, ambitious talents on balancing life goals, family expectations, and career direction. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#142 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard... Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#142 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part Two

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As you walk us through this journey from the humble beginnings all the way to raising 20 million US dollars over the years, it almost sounds like magic, but I know it's not magic. there must have been plenty of challenges along the way, not just in the beginning when teachers were dismissive of your idea, but throughout the whole process.

Chief Change Officer

#142 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part Two

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Could you tell us more about some of the difficulties or obstacles that you and your team faced? And how did you eventually figure things out? Maybe you can share some specific examples?

Chief Change Officer

#142 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part Two

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Today's guest is Chris Schrader, founder and executive chairman of 24 Hour Race, which is a global movement against human trafficking that has raised over 20 million US dollars in the last decade. I've known Chris for almost 10 years. Our first encounter was back in 2016 when I invited him to be a panelist at an event I hosted on education technology.

Chief Change Officer

#142 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part Two

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I really like the analogy used. It's actually quite philosophical. It reminds me of a Chinese saying. which is, however high the mountain is, there's always another one higher. That idea of always seeing a higher peak resonates with what you are saying.

Chief Change Officer

#142 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part Two

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This philosophy seems not apply only to how you've built this charity, but also to your approach in many of the business ventures you've been involved in.

Chief Change Officer

#142 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part Two

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So far, our discussion has been focused a lot on your charity work. but I also know you've been involved in a wide range of businesses over the years. Rather than focusing on one industry or one firm, let's talk more broadly about your business endeavors. You've had your hands in so many different ventures across different cultures. Tell us a bit about your overall approach

Chief Change Officer

#142 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part Two

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You've shared your philosophy earlier, but how have you integrated that into the for-profit business world? How do you use it to drive business growth, build strong teams, and achieve financial goals for the businesses you've been part of?

Chief Change Officer

#142 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part Two

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Chris is sharp, well-read, and definitely unconventional. He took a leave of absence from Harvard Spent an extended period of time away and eventually finished his studies in neuroscience while also building and growing tech businesses around the world. Along the way, he founded a charity based on his love for expeditions.

Chief Change Officer

#142 Chris Schrader: Turning a Modest Charity into an 8-Figure Marathon for Change – Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#373 Nicole F. Roberts: How a Neuroscience Dropout Built a Life Around Purpose—Part One

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These days, with AI and all the available data, you could possibly turn your lectures or content into something interactive. Maybe even develop your own AI agent.

Chief Change Officer

#373 Nicole F. Roberts: How a Neuroscience Dropout Built a Life Around Purpose—Part One

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Now going back to your book, generosity wins. What brought you in the very first place to write something like this and with Monty as your co-author?

Chief Change Officer

#373 Nicole F. Roberts: How a Neuroscience Dropout Built a Life Around Purpose—Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into the No Strict Lines journey of Nicole Roberts.

Chief Change Officer

#373 Nicole F. Roberts: How a Neuroscience Dropout Built a Life Around Purpose—Part One

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You're a co-author in a book called Generosity Wins with Monty Wood. Monty and I had such a great conversation. I can't wait to get his co-author back to the show, which is you.

Chief Change Officer

#373 Nicole F. Roberts: How a Neuroscience Dropout Built a Life Around Purpose—Part One

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That's it for today. We've traced Nicole's unexpected path from neuroscience to human rights to public health. But there's more. In part two, we get into the backstory of her book, Generosity Wins. While the main character is fictional, but the lessons are real. and how a rain summit landed in the middle of Super Bowl weekend. It's one of the most creative takes on leadership I've heard.

Chief Change Officer

#373 Nicole F. Roberts: How a Neuroscience Dropout Built a Life Around Purpose—Part One

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Don't miss it. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#373 Nicole F. Roberts: How a Neuroscience Dropout Built a Life Around Purpose—Part One

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Yeah. Sure. Let's start with your journey, your history, and then we'll dive into different elements of your past and your present.

Chief Change Officer

#373 Nicole F. Roberts: How a Neuroscience Dropout Built a Life Around Purpose—Part One

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You studied public policy and later focused on public health. What originally drew you to public policy? Especially being in Washington, DC, a place so closely tied to politics and government. I know you also spend time in politics. So I'm curious, not just about the shift from point A to B to C, but also about the thinking behind those transitions.

Chief Change Officer

#373 Nicole F. Roberts: How a Neuroscience Dropout Built a Life Around Purpose—Part One

Nicole is a doctor of public health, co-authoring a business book called Generosity Wins with a seasoned CEO, Monty Wood, who happens to be one of our guests on the show. Nicole once posed her PhD to start a human rights firm. Just to give you a sense of how things go, in this two-part series, we talk about what happens when you let purpose guide your work instead of a perfect plan.

Chief Change Officer

#373 Nicole F. Roberts: How a Neuroscience Dropout Built a Life Around Purpose—Part One

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You clearly have a very strong passion for driving public policy. But along the way, you realized that policy and politics are two different things. Very different. Did you find politics didn't sit well with you? What was it that didn't feel right?

Chief Change Officer

#373 Nicole F. Roberts: How a Neuroscience Dropout Built a Life Around Purpose—Part One

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You are clearly a thinker, but also very much a doer. You are someone who wants to drive real change and not just talk about it. You want to see it, build it, make it tangible. And that's something I really value. On this show, I've said it many times. I love working and talking with leaders who walk the walk, talk the talk. Because these days, talk is cheap.

Chief Change Officer

#373 Nicole F. Roberts: How a Neuroscience Dropout Built a Life Around Purpose—Part One

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Honestly, you can just drop a topic into AI tools, say, check GPT, get a polished script, memorize it, and suddenly you're saying the right things. but that's not leadership. Talk is getting commoditized. What really matters now is the walk. And with you, I see someone who does both. You've got the sharp thinking, the public policy background, the communication skills, but you also want to act.

Chief Change Officer

#373 Nicole F. Roberts: How a Neuroscience Dropout Built a Life Around Purpose—Part One

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You want to take all that insight and actually make something happen. But I imagine that's where the frustration comes in when politics and economics, invisible or visible hands, don't always align with action. They don't always support the walk, even if they are filled with talk. Is that how you experience it?

Chief Change Officer

#373 Nicole F. Roberts: How a Neuroscience Dropout Built a Life Around Purpose—Part One

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You mentioned about you, after those six years of doing your own practice in human rights, you went back to school, you finished your dissertation, but you changed the topic. I was wondering how those six years of experience, what happened there that helped you to change from one topic to another? And what was your topic? What was your final topic at the end?

Chief Change Officer

#373 Nicole F. Roberts: How a Neuroscience Dropout Built a Life Around Purpose—Part One

We get into the science behind generosity, how real human stories shaped her book, and why the best leaders know when to ditch the rulebook. And she also helps run a brain summit every year during the Super Bowl. So this conversation goes places. Let's jump in. Hi, Nicole. Welcome to the show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer. I feel like I'm meeting an old friend.

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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For everyday people, not just leaders or influencers, what advice would you give on cultivating a generosity mindset in daily life? How can we become more conscious of generosity and move beyond the mindset to make it a habit? So it shows up consistently in our actions and behaviors. Any practical tips for building this habit?

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. How many people do you know who actually walk into a public restroom and leave it cleaner than they found it? I do. And so does the wife of our guest.

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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Yes, I actually add to that. I think it's really beneficial to use a notebook and pen instead of typing on your phone. Studies show that the act of writing by hand helps with analyzing, filtering, and clarifying thoughts, which can really benefit mental health. So I assume you're suggesting actual writing, not just typing on a laptop or phone?

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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Yes, and about using the phone, I actually go a step further, jotting things down on my phone, but eventually I transfer it into a physical notebook. I know there's tech now that lets you write digitally and it saves to a notebook file. But I still enjoy the actual human art of handwriting. Writing really makes a difference.

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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It helps me feel better, connected, which is important for mental wellness, especially in a world that can feel isolating. Even if we're not meeting face to face, just connecting and talking is rewarding. For instance, podcasting has had a huge positive impact on my own mental wellness. It feels good to connect like this, even if it's virtual.

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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So when it comes to practicing generosity, it doesn't have to be complicated. Unlike business, where we calculate ROI and financial budgets, the benefits of generosity, just reaching out, connecting, can be immediate and tangible.

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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Thank you. Thank you. Well, in fact, I'll send you my resume because if you are ever building a generosity empire, I would love to join your journey. Listening to you has brought back memories from my early career. I worked with senior leaders who were generous in their own way, nurturing and helping me without expecting anything in return. That generosity built meaningful connections beyond work.

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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Even after we all moved on, we stay in touch. Those relationships are rare and precious. And they've made all the difference in my journey.

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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We made a two-part series for you. Yesterday, in Part 1, our last episode, we looked into Monty's personal experiences, his definition of generosity, and why he believes so strongly in practicing generosity as a habit. Today, Part 2, we'll explore what isn't generosity. why practicing generosity can be challenging in today's world, and how to nurture generosity-centered mindset.

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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If you are still skeptical about how generosity can lead to success, join us for this conversation. We'd love for you to be part of the discussion. Let's get started. I have a couple of follow-up questions. You shared why generosity is important, your definition, what it means, and some real examples from people you've worked with.

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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But on the flip side, I'd like to hear about what isn't generosity. In your career, you've worked with a lot of leaders and teams. What are some behaviors or attitudes you've seen so far that you would say are the complete opposite of generosity Maybe things that shrug you as really rude. I think understanding the flip side would be helpful for listeners.

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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giving them a clearer perspective on what generosity isn't. It might even help them recognize, identify, and avoid those less generous behaviors in their own actions or interactions. Could you share some of those not so generous examples?

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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If you could stand on top of a mountain and shout to the world, telling everyone how essential it is, not just as a concept, but as a life approach that can truly change your life, make you happier, and bring more fulfillment, then why aren't more people embracing it? In your experience, why do you think we've lost the art of generosity? I have my own theory, but I'd love to hear yours.

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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What's gone wrong in a society that some of us have either forgotten about it or never developed the skill at all?

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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Like me, she does it because she wants to leave it better for the next person. So who is our guest today? Is Monty Wood, author of the book called Generosity Wins and the former CEO of Opus Agency, a creative branding partner for some of the world's most influential brands.

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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Looking at it from human nature. Greed is one of our seven deadly sins, as they say. We even got a movie called Seventh. Brad Pitt, wasn't it? While there's a lot that could be said about that, I would rather focus on how our present reality has impacted generosity. First off, Social media has changed how we see and interact with the world.

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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It affects how we conduct ourselves, often emphasizing superficial connections over genuine connections. Mainstream media adds an outer layer, often with their own agenda. pushing certain narratives that can cloud our judgment, especially around elections or other high-stick events. Independent journalism is wailing, and we're left with these biased perspectives shaping the way we think.

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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Then there's this trend of idolizing successful tech founders, especially among younger leaders. They see people raising millions, building billion-dollar companies, and assume they need to emulate every behavior to reach that level. But as you pointed out, even Steve Jobs though he had a clear purpose, wasn't known for his kindness in the workplace.

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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It's as if some tech founders believe they have to be ruthless to be successful, ignoring that generosity and empathy are just as essential to leadership and success. And this brings us to a big misconception with technology. Connectivity does not equal connection. We think that having friends or followers means we are connected, in quotation. But that's not true.

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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Real connections are much deeper and more meaningful. People text family members in the same house rather than having a face-to-face conversation. In offices too, I hear stories from friends who say, back in the day, we just turned to the person next to us to chat. Now, even when two people are seated beside each other, one would send a message instead of speaking.

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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All this technology has left us disconnected as human beings. And without real connection, the idea of giving generously without expecting anything in return becomes wearer. This disconnect is a big factor across all cultures and why generosity is harder to come by today.

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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It seems to me that you are an optimist. You are hopeful about the impact of generosity in the world. Despite the challenges we've discussed, you genuinely and passionately want to help people become more generous. You share insights, you write, you publish books to get the message out there. Would you say that's accurate? That you believe we can still build a more generous society?

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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Monty has worked directly with legends like Mike Benioff of Salesforce, Andy Gross of Intel, Steve Jobs, John Chambers of Cisco, and Andy Jassy of Amazon. From these leaders, his own mentors, and his mother, Monty has learned what generosity truly means, why it matters and how to apply it to life and career to become more successful, happier and healthier. Curious to find out more?

Chief Change Officer

#372 Building a Life (and Career) on Everyday Generosity — Part Two

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One where leaders and individuals alike can grow to be more generous, happier, and ultimately more successful?

Chief Change Officer

#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One

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The first thing that comes to my mind is if I'm being generous and generosity helps me succeed, doesn't that make it selfish? Does generosity leading to success mean there's some hidden self-interest? Is that why you're asking? Yes. If you ask me, selfish usually carries a negative connotation. When we call someone selfish, it's typically not a good thing.

Chief Change Officer

#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One

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So when you mentioned that genuine generosity helps you become more successful, is that selfish? I would say no. I wouldn't use the word selfish. I would call it self-awareness. If I believe in the principle that generosity wins, it becomes part of my attitude and behavior. I'm following my own path based on principles I truly believe in.

Chief Change Officer

#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One

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From the outside, people might think I'm focused on what I want, but it's more about knowing who I am and what I stand for. Maybe some could call that selfish, but I would just call it being clear and committed to my values.

Chief Change Officer

#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. How many people do you know who actually walk into a public restroom and leave it cleaner than they found it? I do. And so does the wife of our guest.

Chief Change Officer

#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One

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I remember seeing the term generosity ROI in your book, meaning generosity's return on investment. We live in a capitalist world, and in business, we are always focused on KPI's financial metrics. But generosity is tricky to quantify. Like you said, don't expect a direct return. So it doesn't fit the typical model of ROI.

Chief Change Officer

#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One

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We made a two-part series for you. In today's episode, We'll dive into Monty's personal experiences, his definition of generosity, and why he believes so strongly in practicing generosity as a habit. Tomorrow, we'll explore what isn't generous, why practicing generosity can be difficult in today's world, and how to nurture a generosity-centered mindset.

Chief Change Officer

#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One

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And if we try to measure or track the cost and return of generosity, it starts to feel less like true generosity. But let's assume we want to monitor it. How do we make sense of this ROI? What does it really mean in the context of generosity?

Chief Change Officer

#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One

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You've mentioned before, when defining generosity, that there's a lot of misconceptions about it in the media. That's one thing. But tell us, why do you think there's so much misunderstanding about generosity in general? What are some of the myths you would like to debunk in this interview? Share with us.

Chief Change Officer

#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One

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If you are still skeptical about how generosity can lead to success, join us for this conversation. We'd love for you to be part of the discussion. Let's get started.

Chief Change Officer

#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One

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Just now, Monty shared his personal experiences, his definition of generosity, and why he believes so strongly in practicing generosity as a habit. Tomorrow, in part two, we'll explore what isn't generous. Why practicing generosity can be challenging in today's world and how to nurture a generosity-centered mindset. Come back for part two. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chief Change Officer

#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One

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If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One

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Yes, I agree with you. In fact, when it comes to leadership, I always describe myself in two ways. First is about walking the walk and talking the talk. Second, I believe in servant leadership. I've been lucky in my corporate career to have worked for bosses who embraced this kind of leadership. They helped me grow, become a better leader, and they made me shine.

Chief Change Officer

#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One

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But in my mind, I don't necessarily call this generosity. I still think of it as an exchange of value. As a subordinate, I help achieve business goals, and in return, they support me, hire me, and take pride in recognizing my talents. When I perform well, it makes them look good too. It's not just kindness, it's mutually beneficial and drives business results.

Chief Change Officer

#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One

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So I guess what I'm saying is, I see it as a leadership style, but not necessarily generosity. Now, I'd love to hear your thoughts. What does generosity mean in the context of leadership, especially in the lessons you've learned from your mentor?

Chief Change Officer

#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One

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Like me, she does it because she wants to leave it better for the next person. So who is our guest today? Is Monty Wood, author of the book called Generosity Wins and the former CEO of Opus Agency, a creative branding partner for some of the world's most influential brands.

Chief Change Officer

#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One

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As you were sharing, you brought back some memories of mine from my corporate days. 15, 20 years ago, maybe? A lot has changed since then. We had the credit crisis, then the rise of social media with the iPhone and everything that came with it. Then came COVID and now AI. But it's not just about the technology. It's also about mindset shifts and generational gap.

Chief Change Officer

#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One

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By that, I don't just mean the typical you're older, I'm younger kind of gap. It's more than that. Millennials, Gen Z, for example, they've become more vocal. Some of them may be too vocal. Then we got the even younger generation coming in. On the other hand, you've got Gen X, baby boomers. There's so much going on in the world that it feels like we've become less connected in a lot of ways.

Chief Change Officer

#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One

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Technology allows us to connect like how you and I are talking right now. We wouldn't have met if this tech wasn't democratized like it is today. I mean even a phone call like this used to be very expensive. So yes, we are now connected. But I call this connectivity more than true connection. Because real connection takes time, patience, and effort. For example,

Chief Change Officer

#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One

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I always insist on a pre-call with my podcast guests. I want to get to know them and I want them to know me so that when we record, our conversation is more natural. I dedicated that time 30 or even 45 minutes because I genuinely care about making a good show. Now in that case, is that generosity?

Chief Change Officer

#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One

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I'm not expecting anything in return, but at the same time, I know it helps me achieve a certain result. So would you say that is true generosity? Or is it more of a behavior with a specific goal in mind?

Chief Change Officer

#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One

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Of course, you want to make an impact. From that angle, I guess you could say it's a form of generosity because I don't really expect anything in return from the listeners. But I do care about that whatever I say or you say or any guest on the show says has some kind of impact. Even if it's just a minute, a one-minute impact for someone who listens, that would already make me really happy.

Chief Change Officer

#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One

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Monty has worked directly with legends like Mark Benioff of Salesforce, Andy Gross of Intel, Steve Jobs, John Chambers of Cisco, and Andy Jassy of Amazon. From these leaders, his own mentors, and his mother, Monty has learned what generosity truly means, why it matters and how to apply it to life and career to become more successful, happier and healthier. Curious to find out more?

Chief Change Officer

#370 Paul Austin: Can Psychedelics Unlock Performance—Without Losing the Plot?

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We'll discuss microdosing and its potential to benefit a wide range of people, not only those dealing with mental or medical conditions. As the host of the show, I'm not here to judge my guests. I offer a forum for diverse voices to share their ideas, thoughts, and approaches aimed at advancing humanity in a positive direction. I ask questions from different perspectives.

Chief Change Officer

#370 Paul Austin: Can Psychedelics Unlock Performance—Without Losing the Plot?

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I know you've written a book on microdosing. If I understand correctly, please clarify if needed. Over a course of, say, 30 or 45 days, I take a very small dose, about one-tenth of a standard dose, which offers certain benefits, as you described. But would you say it works more like a band-aid?

Chief Change Officer

#370 Paul Austin: Can Psychedelics Unlock Performance—Without Losing the Plot?

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, We are diving into a topic that's sparking both excitement and debate, psychedelics.

Chief Change Officer

#370 Paul Austin: Can Psychedelics Unlock Performance—Without Losing the Plot?

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For example, during those 30 or 45 days, I might feel better, but after stopping, could those effects wear off? It's similar to taking painkiller. I may not feel the pain for a while, but the underlying issue might still be there. So is microdosing more of a short-term fix? And if so, how can we make its benefits more sustainable, ideally without any physiological or psychological risks?

Chief Change Officer

#370 Paul Austin: Can Psychedelics Unlock Performance—Without Losing the Plot?

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Would it be fair to say that micro-dosing serves as a key? It unlocks potential solutions that might help us get unstuck when we feel trapped, like being locked in a room. From what I understand, Microdosing could help us first get out of that mental room, and while it might not immediately review the path forward, it offers a clearer space to start making those decisions.

Chief Change Officer

#370 Paul Austin: Can Psychedelics Unlock Performance—Without Losing the Plot?

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allowing you, our listeners, to draw your own conclusions from these conversations. Here, I'll ask Paul to walk us through some of the common misunderstandings about microdosing and share insights into the ongoing legal and medical debates surrounding psychedelics.

Chief Change Officer

#370 Paul Austin: Can Psychedelics Unlock Performance—Without Losing the Plot?

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Whether that means ending a toxic relationship, finding a new job, or even breathtaking career direction. Essentially, it seems like a powerful tool for gaining clarity and reclaiming a sense of control to move forward in a way that makes sense to us. Would you say that's a fair summary?

Chief Change Officer

#370 Paul Austin: Can Psychedelics Unlock Performance—Without Losing the Plot?

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As you've explained, there's potential for micro-dosing to benefit a wide range of people, not just those with mental or medical conditions. But then, it's still illegal in many places. and there's ongoing legal and medical debate around it. Could you walk us through some of the common misunderstandings people still have about microdosing?

Chief Change Officer

#370 Paul Austin: Can Psychedelics Unlock Performance—Without Losing the Plot?

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And maybe share more about the legal and medical side of the conversation. What are the main concerns? And where do you see the biggest barriers to a border acceptance?

Chief Change Officer

#370 Paul Austin: Can Psychedelics Unlock Performance—Without Losing the Plot?

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We'll also explore some essential safety considerations and responsible practices for those curious about this tool for personal development and leadership growth. Let's get started. Paul, good afternoon. Welcome to my show. Thank you for joining us.

Chief Change Officer

#370 Paul Austin: Can Psychedelics Unlock Performance—Without Losing the Plot?

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So you've mentioned a couple of great starting points. Start low and go slow is essential, especially for beginners who might feel uncertain given the controversies, legal risks, and potential side effects. If those convinced by the potential benefits but cautious about legality Going to states or countries where psychedelics are legal is another way to explore responsibly.

Chief Change Officer

#370 Paul Austin: Can Psychedelics Unlock Performance—Without Losing the Plot?

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To wrap up our conversation, Paul, could you share more on some essential safety considerations and responsible practices we should keep in mind? What steps can help us approach this new tool for personal development and leadership growth with care and respect?

Chief Change Officer

#370 Paul Austin: Can Psychedelics Unlock Performance—Without Losing the Plot?

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#370 Paul Austin: Can Psychedelics Unlock Performance—Without Losing the Plot?

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Thank you. Yes, I'm still finishing my breakfast. But I wouldn't miss this interview for anything. Today, we are diving into a topic that is still pretty controversial, not just here in the US, but worldwide. It's one that comes with its own set of benefits and risks. Paul has been in this space long enough to call himself an expert. So I'm excited to get his insights.

Chief Change Officer

#370 Paul Austin: Can Psychedelics Unlock Performance—Without Losing the Plot?

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But first thing first, Paul, can you tell us a bit about yourself? What have you done in the past? And how has those experiences shaped who you are and what you do today?

Chief Change Officer

#370 Paul Austin: Can Psychedelics Unlock Performance—Without Losing the Plot?

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My guest is Paul Austin, founder and CEO of Third Wave, a leading voice advocating for the responsible use of psychedelics, especially psychedelics. within the realms of personal and leadership development. Let me make this clear.

Chief Change Officer

#370 Paul Austin: Can Psychedelics Unlock Performance—Without Losing the Plot?

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From your perspective, you're educating the world on the benefits and potential advantages of using psychedelics responsibly for personal well-being and even for the benefit of teams and communities. So first, can you share how you incorporate psychedelics in your practice and what benefits you've observed? On the flip side, what are some limitations and potential risks?

Chief Change Officer

#370 Paul Austin: Can Psychedelics Unlock Performance—Without Losing the Plot?

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Help us understand more about the opportunities and the challenges. What should people be cautious about?

Chief Change Officer

#370 Paul Austin: Can Psychedelics Unlock Performance—Without Losing the Plot?

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While there's growing support for the benefits, psychedelics remained illegal in many places, and there's still much debate around the safety, legality, and medical impact. But pause here to educate us on the potential advantages of psychedelics, especially when approached responsibly.

Chief Change Officer

#370 Paul Austin: Can Psychedelics Unlock Performance—Without Losing the Plot?

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Paul, you mentioned there are at least two types of people who can benefit from psychedelics. Those dealing with medical or mental health challenges, like PTSD, and then another group, creative leaders, entrepreneurs, and others whose roles demand a high level of focused mental power. Can you dive a bit deeper into these applications, especially for regular people in high-performance roles?

Chief Change Officer

#370 Paul Austin: Can Psychedelics Unlock Performance—Without Losing the Plot?

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Perhaps you could share a few stories or examples? no names needed of course, to help us understand how psychedelics can work in this context. I'd love to hear more about how your approach compares and what it offers for those looking to enhance focus and creativity.

Chief Change Officer

#69 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part Two

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Erica returned with fresh purpose, balancing her career on a three-day work week, launching the podcast and expanding her reach to create a bigger impact. Yesterday, part one, Erica shared her career journey, the twist and the turns and the accident that changed everything.

Chief Change Officer

#69 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm speaking with Erica Sosna. a fellow podcast host and the author of The Career Equation, who, like me, is passionate about careers.

Chief Change Officer

#69 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#69 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part Two

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Today, in part two, she'll share the hard-earned wisdom she gained from overcoming paralysis, starting a new chapter, shaping a path to personal and professional growth. Erica will also dive into the career equation she created. and how we can all work towards becoming better versions of ourselves in our careers. Your experience and the journey are exceptional.

Chief Change Officer

#69 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part Two

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The challenges you faced, both physical and mental, are beyond what many of us could even imagine. I deeply applaud you for that resilience. As I listened, I wondered, now that you're looking back and you call yourself exceptional, which I think is entirely fitting, what would you say is your superpower?

Chief Change Officer

#69 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part Two

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If you had to pinpoint exactly what it is that helped you sustain and succeed through all of those things, what would that be? Is it a deep-rooted faith, something within your career equation, or an other quality? What do you think that allowed you to endure all the pain and ultimately come back even stronger?

Chief Change Officer

#69 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part Two

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But what makes Erica's story unique is her remarkable journey of resilience, purpose, and transformation. In 2022, A life-changing accident left her paralyzed. Facing months of recovery, through immense pain and uncertainty, Erica fought her way back. Back to walking, back to work, and back to a renewed mission. After a year away from her consultancy,

Chief Change Officer

#69 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part Two

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My podcast is about real, raw, lived experiences, not polished success stories. Now, I'd like to dive into your book, The Career Equation. I've skimmed through it myself and noticed you focus on helping employers better support the career growth of their employees. Many career books are aimed at individuals taking charge of their own career paths, but you've chosen to speak directly to employers.

Chief Change Officer

#69 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part Two

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Since we have a few minutes left, I think it would be great to web up with this. How do you help employers enhance the career experience for their teams? What steps can they take to create an environment where employees feel not just more productive, but truly motivated and committed?

Chief Change Officer

#69 Career Equation Author Erica Sosna: Rebounding from Physical Paralysis to New Heights – Part Two

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This is a relevant question to many people out there feeling stuck in the workforce, looking for a way to feel more engaged and valued.

Chief Change Officer

#233 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part Two

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You are a servant leader. You are the type who wants to make others shine. If you can help your team members grow to become better people, better leaders, better managers, then you are the silent force behind their success.

Chief Change Officer

#233 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#233 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part Two

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And it's safe to say he sees life and business leadership as a journey too. We have talked for about an hour, split into two parts. In the last episode, part one, we touched upon the genesis and evolution of 24-hour race. What started as a casual suggestion on a rainy day turned into a life-changing journey for a teenager. The walk across England raised five figures in U.S.

Chief Change Officer

#233 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part Two

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This is the last question of the day. It has two parts. I see you as a purposeful leader a world explorer, skilled in technology, but always human-centered. Yet, in a place like Hong Kong, where both of us are from, there's often a set path. Study finance, engineering, medicine, become a doctor, lawyer, or banker, for example. you chose a different path.

Chief Change Officer

#233 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part Two

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You didn't follow the typical expectations, yet you grew up in an environment where those expectations are strong. So the first part of my question is about the people around you, such as your parents, family members, and friends. How did they influence and support you in becoming who you are today? The second part is about leading a purposeful life and career.

Chief Change Officer

#233 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part Two

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We are all in some kind of pursuit of success and fulfillment, but there's always a lot of noise. Internal pressures, expectations, people telling you what you should and shouldn't do. How do you balance all of that while staying true to your own purpose and building a life that feels fulfilling to you? It's a big question, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

Chief Change Officer

#233 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part Two

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dollars and sparked an eight-figure U.S. dollar global movement at the end. Today's episode, part two, will focus on Chris' approach to leadership and team building, drawing parallels between leading an expedition and managing a business team. Here, we'll highlight how lessons learned from life or death situations in the wilderness translate into effective leadership strategies

Chief Change Officer

#233 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part Two

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Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#233 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part Two

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in the corporate world. Chris also offers his genuine advice for young, ambitious talents on balancing life goals, family expectations, and career direction. Let's get started. As you walk us through this journey, from the humble beginnings all the way to raising 20 million US dollars over the years, it almost sounds like magic, but I know it's not magic.

Chief Change Officer

#233 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part Two

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There must have been plenty of challenges along the way, not just in the beginning when teachers were dismissive of your idea, but throughout the whole process. Could you tell us more about some of the difficulties or obstacles that you and your team faced? And how did you eventually figure things out? Maybe you can share some specific examples?

Chief Change Officer

#233 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part Two

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Today's guest is Chris Schrader, founder and executive chairman of 24 Hour Race, which is a global movement against human trafficking that has raised over 20 million US dollars in the last decade. I've known Chris for almost 10 years. Our first encounter was back in 2016 when I invited him to be a panelist at an event I hosted on education technology.

Chief Change Officer

#233 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part Two

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which is, however high the mountain is, there's always another one higher. That idea of always seeing a higher peak resonates with what you are saying. This philosophy seems not apply only to how you've built this charity, but also to your approach in many of the business ventures you've been involved in.

Chief Change Officer

#233 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part Two

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So far, our discussion has been focused a lot on your charity work. but I also know you've been involved in a wide range of businesses over the years. Rather than focusing on one industry or one firm, let's talk more broadly about your business endeavors. You've had your hands in so many different ventures across different cultures. Tell us a bit about your overall approach

Chief Change Officer

#233 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part Two

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You've shared your philosophy earlier, but how have you integrated that into the for-profit business world? How do you use it to drive business growth, build strong teams, and achieve financial goals for the businesses you've been part of?

Chief Change Officer

#233 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part Two

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Chris is sharp, well-read, and definitely unconventional. He took a leave of absence from Harvard Spent an extended period of time away and eventually finished his studies in neuroscience while also building and growing tech businesses around the world. Along the way, he founded a charity based on his love for expeditions.

Chief Change Officer

#232 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part One

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So exactly how much have you raised over the last 10 years or so?

Chief Change Officer

#232 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part One

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Wow, that's 150 million Hong Kong. That is about how much in U.S., like 20?

Chief Change Officer

#232 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part One

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Yeah, and that is a big chunk of money you've raised over the years.

Chief Change Officer

#232 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part One

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I was wondering, while raising money isn't your main focus, when you do receive a significant amount of money, how do you use it? How do you allocate those funds to create the most impact?

Chief Change Officer

#232 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part One

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And it's safe to say he sees life and business leadership as a journey too. We'll be talking for about an hour, split into two parts. In this episode, part one, we'll dive into the genesis and evolution of 24-hour race. What started as a casual suggestion on a rainy day turned into a life-changing journey for a teenager. The world across England raised five figures in U.S.

Chief Change Officer

#232 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part One

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So basically, you allocate the funds across different NGOs. All of them are involved in fighting against human trafficking. Is that how you turn the money into real action?

Chief Change Officer

#232 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world.

Chief Change Officer

#232 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part One

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In the last 30 minutes, Chris shared his journey from a humble teenage charity event to leading a global movement valued at over 20 million US dollar. His experiences, whether trekking through desks and scaling mountains, have shaped his understanding of business leadership and team building.

Chief Change Officer

#232 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part One

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In the next episode, Releasing Tomorrow, we'll dive deeper into Chris' leadership approach, drawing parallels between leading expeditions and managing business teams. He will show how lessons learned from life or death situations in the wilderness can translate into powerful leadership strategies in the corporate world.

Chief Change Officer

#232 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part One

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Chris also shares heartfelt advice for young ambitious talents on how to balance life goals, family expectations, and career direction. See you. thank you so much for joining us today if you like what you heard don't forget subscribe to our show leave us top rated reviews check out our website and follow me on social media i'm vince chen your ambitious human host until next time take care

Chief Change Officer

#232 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part One

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dollar and sparked an eight-figure U.S. dollar global movement. Tomorrow's episode, part two, will focus on Chris' approach to leadership and team building, drawing parallels between leading an expedition and managing a business team. This episode highlights how lessons learned from life or death situations in the wilderness translate into effective leadership strategies in the corporate world.

Chief Change Officer

#232 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part One

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Chris also offers his heartfelt advice for young ambitious talents on balancing life goals, family expectations, and career direction. Welcome, Chris. Welcome to my show.

Chief Change Officer

#232 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part One

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Chris, do you remember that I invited you to an in-person event hosted by me back in 2016? And I can't believe that after so many years, I got the second chance of inviting you back now in a virtual format.

Chief Change Officer

#232 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part One

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Chris, you and I are born and raised in Hong Kong, but I know you have a very interesting multicultural background. Tell us more about that.

Chief Change Officer

#232 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part One

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Today's guest is Chris Schrader, founder and executive chairman of 24 Hour Race, which is a global movement against human trafficking that has raised over 20 million US dollars in the last decade. I've known Chris for almost 10 years. Our first encounter was back in 2016 when I invited him to be a panelist at an event I hosted on education technology.

Chief Change Officer

#232 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part One

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Up until this point... You had what seemed like an uneventful childhood, but then something happened while you were attending boarding school in Britain that planted the seed for what would later become the 24-hour race. Can you dive into that? Could you share more about what happened in detail?

Chief Change Officer

#232 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part One

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But how did you end up transforming the whole race into a movement against human trafficking?

Chief Change Officer

#232 From Rainy-Day Idea to $20M: Chris Schrader’s Race for Change – Part One

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Chris is sharp, well-read, and definitely unconventional. He took a leave of absence from Harvard Spent an extended period of time away and eventually finished his studies in neuroscience while also building and growing tech businesses around the world. Along the way, he founded a charity based on his love for expeditions.

Chief Change Officer

#231 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part One

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You had a business back then, didn't you?

Chief Change Officer

#231 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part One

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So this is it. You wanted change. You wanted a different lifestyle. So you took a step back. You exited financially from that business. Also brought in someone to help you figure out your next chapter. Before we get into your life in Japan and your calling now, I want to go back to something you mentioned financial success. You had it before, and you still have a strong drive for it.

Chief Change Officer

#231 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part One

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And let's be honest, no one would say they don't like money. We all need it. If you ask me, would you want your podcast show to be financially successful? Of course, I would say yes. but not because I want to buy a Ferrari or a big house. For me, financial success means I can expand my impact, do more, provide stability for myself and for my partner. Money itself isn't a problem.

Chief Change Officer

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It's not something to feel guilty about. But at the same time, when chasing money becomes the sole focus, only focus, even in our own businesses, can be harmful. Now, looking back, your perspective on financial success has clearly evolved. You're still running a sustainable business. You're still making good money. But how has your relationship with money changed?

Chief Change Officer

#231 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part One

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Before, it was about chasing the number. Now, you're still mindful of revenue and profit, but with a different mindset. What shifted for you? And how did that change actually happen?

Chief Change Officer

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Welcome to the show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

Chief Change Officer

#231 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into career transformation with Gary Berman.

Chief Change Officer

#231 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part One

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Okay.

Chief Change Officer

#231 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part One

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Gary and I have a mutual friend, also happens to be a podcast guest. And now, it's like a snowball effect. More and more people reaching out to be on the show. But I'm still very mindful about finding the right fit. And anyone listening to this episode will see that Gary is exactly that. I'll let him share his story, his ideas, his high sights, insights, and foresights.

Chief Change Officer

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Not sure if you saw this, But there was a survey. Some organizations published results about financial success across different generations. They asked baby boomers, Gen X, millennials, and Gen Z what they think it takes to be financially successful. And this went viral because of Gen Z's response. Their expectation on annual salary is at least $600,000 a year.

Chief Change Officer

#231 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part One

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I am a Gen X, so when I saw that, I had to take a step back. And that's why so many people started debating it. Now, my question isn't about disputing the number itself. It's just a data point and honestly, I'm not sure how they even conducted the survey. I tend to question the analytics and assumptions behind these things.

Chief Change Officer

#231 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part One

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But just assuming the number is reasonably representative does reflect something interesting. It seems like younger workers, especially those just starting out, have a huge appetite for financial success. Meanwhile, those who are more established, who've been through it, so to speak, tend to have a different perspective. Of course, when we are young, we all want to prove ourselves.

Chief Change Officer

#231 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part One

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We want to make money, be successful. And you were no different. You once chased financial success. But now, you not only have that experience, you also help people figure out their own career paths. Whether they stay in a corporation or transition into entrepreneurship, both of which come with financial shifts.

Chief Change Officer

#231 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part One

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So after everything you've learned, what does financial success actually mean to you now? And if you were advising younger people, knowing what you know now, what would you tell them about what really matters when it comes to money and success?

Chief Change Officer

#231 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part One

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But first, Gary, tell us a bit about yourself. What's your journey been like? Give us all the juice and then we'll dive into different elements and unpack some of your wisdom and intelligence.

Chief Change Officer

#231 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part One

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That's the end for today. We've explored Gary's unconventional journey from hitchhiking across North America to building a global business, burning out, and finally discovering his real and true calling as a career coach. But the real question is, how do you find your own career clarity today?

Chief Change Officer

#231 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part One

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In Part 2, Gary breaks down his seven rules of career clarity and tackles the biggest hiring challenges in Japan, from ageism to the fear of change. Don't miss it! Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host.

Chief Change Officer

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

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You are in Tokyo now, one of the dream destinations for so many people, whether for travel, work, or even living. What brought you there? It might seem like a simple question, but I feel like there's a bigger story behind it. Let's trace back. Where are you originally from? And how did your journey lead you from one place to another, eventually landing you in Tokyo?

Chief Change Officer

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Before social media, before Instagram made picture-perfect moments so accessible, you were already living with the whole world in front of you. Even as a kid, you were constantly on the move. So can I say you were a world traveler from the start?

Chief Change Officer

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Before moving to Asia, you had quite a journey, especially in North America. Tell us about that. What was your experience like?

Chief Change Officer

#231 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part One

Gary is a recruiter, career coach, and Japan talent market expert who has spent 25 years helping professionals navigate change. But his own journey wasn't a straight line. Gary hitchhiked across North America, dropped out of college two times, built a global business, and burned out before finally finding his true calling.

Chief Change Officer

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Even within North America, you've experienced life across different states, different time zones, and completely different cultures. East goes West goes Midwest. You've seen it all. And then there's Canada. A mutual friend once mentioned that some of his friends wanted to move from the US to Canada, thinking it would be the same. And he said, no, Canada is not just another version of the US.

Chief Change Officer

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There are a lot of differences, a lot of nuances. You've learned that firsthand, didn't you? And not just from books, but from real life experience. You mentioned struggling in school at one point, but you did go back, right?

Chief Change Officer

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How did you support yourself financially along the way? What kind of work did you do to keep things moving while navigating your journey?

Chief Change Officer

#231 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part One

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You really put yourself out there, fully immersed. No safety net. Would it be fair to say you were baptized by fire?

Chief Change Officer

#231 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part One

In this two-part series, we'll explore how he discovered his passion for coaching, the seven rules of career clarity, and the harsh realities of Japan's talent market, including ageism and the fear of change. Whether you're rethinking your career, hiring talent, or just wondering what's next, this series will change the way you see work. Let's get started. Gary, good afternoon to you.

Chief Change Officer

#231 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part One

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You went back to school, finished, and in your twenties, you were still young, figuring things out. But as you mentioned, you didn't find your calling until your thirties, maybe even mid thirties. So what happened in those 10 years? Were you still searching for your real self? Were you trying different things proactively or just going with the flow?

Chief Change Officer

#231 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part One

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Looking back, what was that phase of your life really about?

Chief Change Officer

#230 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm chatting with Michael Secreta, the insightful money philosopher and author of the book titled Money, Balance, and Joy.

Chief Change Officer

#230 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part Two

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Build meaningful legacy and manage life's financial curveballs with confidence. You use the word control. In the media, they don't often use the word control. Instead, they like to use the term financial independence or financial freedom. What should I take on financial independence or freedom? In the last season, episode 7, I had a debate with my friend Gargan.

Chief Change Officer

#230 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part Two

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#230 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part Two

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who is building software to help millennials achieve financial independence. Personally, I don't buy into it. I think human nature always keeps us chasing new desires. So we're never truly independent. What's your raw take on financial independence from a personal perspective?

Chief Change Officer

#230 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part Two

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In another episode, actually it's episode five in season one, I spoke with another friend, my classmate from Yale, Katie Curry, about how our risk tolerance changes as we get older, especially when it comes to career moves. We were both risk analysts for financial institutions, so we know it's not an easy concept to understand and to practice.

Chief Change Officer

#230 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part Two

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Now, when it comes to personal wealth management, how do you explain risk and tolerance of risk to individuals in a way that's easy to understand and embrace?

Chief Change Officer

#230 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part Two

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Michael dives into the philosophy of financial wellbeing, showing that money alone isn't the golden ticket to happiness. He talks about the need for a balanced ecosystem, which includes monetary wealth, time wealth, and social wealth. explaining that total fulfillment comes when all three work together.

Chief Change Officer

#230 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part Two

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This is the last question of the day, and I'd like to pick your brain on the rise of financial influencers, as you mentioned financial media before. Financial influencers on platforms like Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube has sparked a lot of debate regarding the impact on individual investment decisions. On the one hand, they democratize access to financial information, easy to access advice.

Chief Change Officer

#230 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part Two

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On the other hand, they are concerned about their qualifications, the accuracy of their information, and potential conflicts of interest. For example, some may not have formal financial education or may promote investments for personal gain without adequate disclosure. So here are two questions for you.

Chief Change Officer

#230 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part Two

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One, in this current landscape, in your views, what are the potential risks for individual making investment and money decisions based on all these easily accessible advice? Second question, what advice, what guidance would you offer to someone looking to navigate the vast amount of financial advice online, especially from those influencers?

Chief Change Officer

#230 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part Two

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How can investors, how can everyday people identify and follow advice that is both secure, safe, and hopefully and potentially profitable?

Chief Change Officer

#230 Michael Sakraida: Change Your Money Mindset, Change Your Life – Part Two

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He also takes on Wall Street, the financial media, and financial influencers, pointing out how they often miss the emotional side of financial planning. from risk tolerance questionnaires that don't account for real-life feelings to the misleading advice all over social media. Michael gives a candid and refreshing take. He also shares practical advice on how we can reclaim control of our finances

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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So part of the motivation is that's in my mind what really great looked like. And I wanted to build a way to really scale that approach. And then coincidentally, their pedagogy is quite similar to Harvard Business School does case studies. And there's a lot of similar adult learning principle underpinnings. And also I think it's quite research path in the way that how people learn.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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The second thing I would say that made me want to start this is I felt like there was a really strong founder market fit when it comes to like my unique abilities or what I thought are my unique abilities that could help. build this product. So throughout my life, I've just been involved in a lot of things that involve live groups.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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So when I was in Korea, I used to be on TV and I hosted a lot of live TV shows. So I was often a show host where I had to facilitate conversations. Then I, throughout my life in school, would often play some sort of a role in class, whether it be class president or social chair. So I was often again facilitating a lot of experiences for people.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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In work, I've facilitated a ton of really interactive workshops for clients where I also got insight into what it means to bring people together. And finally, I emcee weddings a lot. And so like a lot of the things that I do and I really enjoy are around bringing people together and somehow creating this dynamic that gets everyone to really engage.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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And I felt like I had really strong intuition and insight around this so when i bring those two things together it felt like there was an opportunity for me to create a new product that could really change what the default of online learning looks like with what i'm really good at yeah speaking of online learning

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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I've been pretty involved in upskilling myself in recent months, taking courses on platforms like Coursera. While Coursera offers on-demand online learning, there's little interaction and is not very engaging, unless the topic really grabs my interest. On the other hand, I'm also taking some coaching classes, which involve synchronized group learning with breakout sessions.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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That's a different experience altogether. And over the years, I've also had a lot of in-person experiences at business schools where I engaged in group dynamics and case studies. debating in large classrooms, or discussing cases in small teams. So when you mentioned designing your product to be similar to McKinsey or the Harvard Business School case method, it really resonates with me.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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Welcome Vince. And thanks, Vince, for having me. It feels a little bit strange to be saying thank you, Vin. Awesome to be on it.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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So my question for you is, for regular learners, for everyday people who don't have the privilege of attending Harvard Business School or any other elite institution, how does your solution stand out? How does it differentiate itself from other learning scenarios I've mentioned, particularly in terms of the learning experience and outcomes?

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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Yeah, so I think, so the way I think about it is, so maybe the context here is... Adult learning principles and science are pretty clear, and there's a lot of evidence around how adults learn, right? I think actually the issue for most, and it's not like different people, like learning styles is not a thing, right? It's like a myth that's already been debunked.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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People really learn well skills where you require judgment and discussion and sort of practice. People really learn better when they're with others. Now, the challenge is that the kinds of high-impact learning where you're working with others is very expensive to scale. And it's very hard to do it flexibly also. And so what you often see is...

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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This is a very special episode. I've never had a guest with the same first name as mine. And you are the first. Groundbreaking, really. So, Vince, let's start with your story. Share your history and career path with us. Then we'll talk more about different aspects and elements of your experience. Let's begin by getting to know more about you.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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Only the very sort of privileged or high budget institutions of the world are able to offer learners the truly great learning experiences grounded in adult learning pedagogy. And then when they're forced to scale, they're making compromises in the learning experience that is not grounded in learning science. but at least it can get that content in front of the people who need it.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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But today, in the past, there was no real way to scale truly science-backed great learning to more people. So I would say what we're doing is we're taking that experience that today can only be accessed by really privileged sort of settings and making it much more accessible to many more people through technology.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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So it's about scaling live group learning. I also noticed an other key component you mentioned fostering a sense of community. You've had experience as a TV host, a MC, and engaging with people in various social environments. And now you're trying to bring that sense of community into the learning process through technology.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today got a double Vince episode. Yes, Vince Chan here hosting Vince John from New York City.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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Personally, in the social media era, I found that the sense of humility often feels superficial. Reflecting on my own learning experience, like spending two years in business school with classmates, there was a genuine sense of humility, but it came at the cost of time and being physically present in one location.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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Fast forward to today, you're using technology to scale live group learning and engage learners. I'm curious about your approach to using technology to foster and develop a more genuine sense of community. How do you achieve that?

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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I think this could be a game changer for many people, especially since despite the technology bringing us together, social media has often made us feel more disconnected.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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Yeah, and it's something that I think you're totally right that it's sense of community has really been eroded and or the word community has been diluted in the social media world. I would say, okay, so if you step back, what are the things that actually build true sense of community? In our view, I think it requires meaningful conversations.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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that allow people to really get to know each other in a deeper way than they otherwise would. Go beyond the small talk or the classic set of things you share in a normal context and allow them to get deeper and learn about like, how do different people think? What are their values?

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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what where do their perspectives come from and so on and i would say what the way we've designed our learning gets at sparking conversations to get at that level so now comes the question of how do you create that kind of an environment you can't simply throw people into a group and say now talk deep right people don't do that and so the way we've try to do it in our modules.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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I think there are a number of different levers we pull, but maybe I'll highlight two. The first one is, in a lot of our modules, we first of all get people to solve problems together that are realistic but fictitious and that are not actually their own life problems.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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And by getting people to engage on this external problem, first of all, it just gets people to start deeply engaging and opening up in a more comfortable way because it's not like you're suddenly having to be very vulnerable from the get-go. And people also just really like problem solving together.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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Got it. Thank you. Yeah, so Today I'm an entrepreneur, but maybe I'll start from my origin. I was born in South Korea and I grew up there until I was 12. Then I immigrated to Canada and then I came to the US for college and then navigated to different parts of the world and came to where I am today. I would say there are a few things that have really marked my life.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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I think it's one of the innate qualities of humans that gets people to want to play social games, play board games, and do things with each other. And so we've created an environment where it feels like you're collaborating together and working together. Then the second thing we do is we then layer on the kinds of interactivity that allows everybody to share in a meaningful way.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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So one of the examples of this interactivity in our platform is we actually get everyone to write down their thinking. So it's a group setting, but alone, solo, quietly for a few minutes. So you reflect on the questions first and you are able to organize your thoughts. Then afterwards, you're able to share with each other how you thought about the prompt that was given.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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And so this sort of sequence intentionally allows everybody to have more of an equal voice in sharing and also the thoughts that they share to be more richer rather than people just off the cuff answering questions without having had a chance to really thought about it and write it down.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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So far, we've talked about your solution from the learner's perspective. But what about from the provider's perspective? When I say provider, I refer to training providers, coaches, consulting firms, and book authors. I'm trying to learn more about your firm. It seems like your solution is very versatile, working well with different types of education and learning providers.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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And for these providers and partners, what pain points are you solving for them? If I come to you and say, hey, Vince, I want to build this product. I want to build this platform. I think your technology is right for me. But I'd like to know more about the specific differentiation you offer compared to other learning solutions. What would you say?

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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Yeah, I think usually, so I would say the clients fall in one of the two buckets, like broadly, in terms of why they find SparkWise useful for them. The first one is around just the level and the richness of interactions that are available virtually through SparkWise is much stronger than if they were to cobble together other tools like Zoom, then a whiteboarding tool and so on.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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And in a very intuitive way that gets learners to just focus on the actual learning rather than be really distracted and overwhelmed by the amount of tools they have to toggle between. So the first set of partners want to use SparkWise because they want to bring an incredible learning experience to their clients that is interactive and they see SparkWise as a tool to do it.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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The second group of partners that like us are the ones that are looking, they like the scalability value proposition that I told you earlier. For them, yeah, they can definitely, it's easy for a provider to host a group of, let's say, 10 to 15 people and do a very interactive session for them or do small group coaching. Those are all doable.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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But when you need to deliver learning to thousands or tens of thousands of learners across enterprises or companies,

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#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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different types of industries like how do you actually do that in a cost-effective way in a flexible way that doesn't force the partners to now have an army of different facilitators on demand they can pull in right and so they see our solution as a way to really scale their business in a streamlined way the skill and interactiveness you mentioned for smaller groups is impressive

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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Recently, you announced a deal with Harvard Business Publishing to allow them to use your live group learning solution for their subscribers. Before you share more about that, I've noticed a trend with AI companies as AI and large language model technologies become more integrated into our daily lives.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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These AI companies are teaming up with media firms because these media firms have a wealth of quality content. For example, OpenAI has partnered with The Atlantic and Perplexity has revenue sharing agreements with media firms like Time and Fortune for AI-driven searches. Education is another ecosystem rich in content.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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The first thing is definitely the immigrant experience has been a really big component. Moving from South Korea to Canada when I didn't really speak much English at age 12, I think really forced me to really discover myself again at age 12 and really invest in learning and education as a way to adapt to a new environment.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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When I heard about your collaboration with Harvard Business Publishing, I started connecting the dots. HBP has a huge library of quality content and access to top-tier authors. It seems to me that your technology could play a key role in unlocking hidden value from this content and bringing it to life for a broader audience. Is that your vision for this collaboration?

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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Or do you have other different expectations for it?

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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I think you synthesize it quite well here, but the things that I would add to it are a couple of things. So definitely agree that there's a lot of idle content out there today. And there is a, not all content needs this, but I think the content that people who, who that need to be fully absorbed and digested and applied in real life.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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Simply reading is rarely the best way for people to actually understand those concepts. So with collaborations like someone like Harvard Business Publishing who've been a wonderful partner with us so far, we really do see an opportunity to allow their expertise to come to life and influence more lives. The second thing I would add is that especially with

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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AI, just raw content is truly getting commoditized. It was already in many ways commoditized, but now it's accessible in a way that it wasn't before AI, which means those with like distinctive expertise are looking for ways to further elevate how you deliver that experience above and beyond what people can get through simply asking. an LLM.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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And so what we see is we're providing an alternative, a new way for people to engage with information and content that is human to human, that AI can't simply come in this place, that really gets people motivated to engage, that really creates aha moments because you're talking to other people. And hopefully through that, we allow people

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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the truly great thinkers' ideas and insights to get spread much more to different parts of the world.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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It sounds like many of the thinkers and professors who publish articles through Harvard Business Publishing, along with book authors, could use these solutions to share their ideas and engage with learners and fans on a deeper level. That presents a huge potential, not just with large publishers, but also with platforms like Substack for newsletters or even podcast platforms.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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I'm simply thinking out loud here, but for example, on platforms like Substack or in the podcasting space, many creators, including myself and yourself, could benefit from your technology. Independent book authors, podcasters, other content creators could use it to translate their content into a more interactive, community-based environment.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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The second thing that has really marked my experience is just post-education, going through a lot of different professional experience across consulting, international development in different countries, and just really learning what is it that I really care about, about the world, which for me, sort of the thread was people development, capability building, and talent development.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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allowing for deeper engagement and sharing of thoughts, insights, and advice with their audiences.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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Yeah, I think there's definitely a really interesting and promising opportunity there. Right now, we initially started by really focusing on, first, more of a B2B opportunity, also so that we can be focused on where we build our products and which features

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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are built for to enable which segments but to your point i think increasingly especially now there are going to be more and more of the solo creators or very small organizations that are reaching a lot more audience through the different digital channels that's been created and we do think it could be really interesting to help them bring another way of engaging with their listeners and audience and fans through our platform over time

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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Great. I can't wait to hear more about your developments because I truly believe that in addition to the B2B space, there's so much more. The rest of the world is hungry for solutions like yours. Thank you so much for sharing, Vince.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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Thank you very much for having me.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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And so present day, I'm working on a startup that is an education technology company that helps people, so professionals learn together in group.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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SparkWise, that's your baby. But before we dive into SparkWise and all the exciting new initiatives, let's talk about your journey. You mentioned moving from Asia to Canada and United States. which is somewhat similar to my own experience. I moved from Hong Kong to Canada and studied in the United States.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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While you studied engineering at Princeton, then you transitioned into public administration at Harvard, focusing on economic development and eventually moved to different parts of the world. What drove you to make those transitions? How did these experiences enrich your character? Or perhaps it was the other way around. Wasn't your character that drove all those moves?

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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Yeah, it's an interesting question. I would say the thing that comes to my mind is, so first of all, I've for a long time been on a quest to find what is it that truly motivates me intrinsically. And today I feel like I've found it, especially with the work I do in Sparkwise. But that journey was very long.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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I think the part of the reason why it was a long journey is that growing up, I would characterize my young self as a people pleaser. Getting a lot of validation and enjoyment from things that others tell about me. And which means for a long time, I was very much driven by extrinsic things, whether it be compliments, like awards or prestige or things like that.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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And I always felt like that wasn't the sort of the thing that really fulfilled me. And I was constantly looking for what is it, the thing that motivates me. So my winding sort of career path reflects that journey. Now, I would say There are maybe two things that guided my process. One of which actually comes from my background in engineering. So I studied in operations research.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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And one of the things I learned in that discipline is that when you are trying to optimize a mathematical function under a lot of uncertainty, What you do is you actually double down on the areas of the function that you just have no data points on. So you actually gauge whether those parts of the functions are high value or not for you. So I apply that principle to my career, which means I...

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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When I first started undergrad, I went to McKinsey and that was honestly just me not knowing what I wanted to do at all. And McKinsey just sounded like a cool organization that everyone said was prestigious and good to work for. So I just went into it blind. But

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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Beyond that point, I was chasing things that I just hadn't experienced, where things were uncertain, so I can learn more about them and letting my intuition guide me. For instance, right after McKinsey, I went to Tanzania and worked at an NGO. I had an inkling that I cared about social impact, I had an inkling that maybe nonprofit could be a really interesting kind of organization to work for.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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I obviously had no experience working in Africa. I had no experience really working as a project manager in an NGO. And it felt like an opportunity that was very far away from what I knew. And by going there, I would discover. After that, I went to a year in Tanzania. I realized I really like high impact work, but they didn't really like the

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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NGO model and the incentives around what that environment creates. And so I actually ended up going to Colombia in Latin America and working at a startup. My first time in Latin America and my first time in a startup, but it was a way for me to really discover, again, a very different environment where I can experience that setting. and see what I like.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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So those are a couple examples of how I chase uncertainty as a way to really discover what is it that really motivates me. There's the second sort of thing that I use a mental model I use is the idea that you can only really discover and learn your true preferences by gaining firsthand experience.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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Like me, Vince is from Asia and moved to Canada and the States for living, studying and working. I resonate with a lot of his transitional experiences and we share one major thing in common. We are both obsessed with learning. We are passionate about the outcome of learning, the experience of it, and how to improve it, not just for ourselves, but for others as well.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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I think a lot of times people spend a lot of time theorizing what might be good and then apply after theory. I think the other way around, I feel like you're better off

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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leading with experience and then distilling and creating mental models around yourself and defining your principles from actually putting yourself in situations where you feel the real constraints of realities and then you realize, okay, this is what I really care about versus this. I don't really care about this.

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#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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And for me, that's the reason why I was jumping into these very different environments. And from that, learn what is it that I really care about.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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And as I mentioned earlier, briefly, through all these experiences, I learned the thing that I always thought about and found enjoyment in was doing things around people development, talent development, thinking about how do you unlock people's potential and so on. And once I got enough of those data points across settings,

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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I knew or felt that was the area I had to focus on if I were to dedicate a decade of my life building a venture. And hence, today I'm building an education technology business.

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#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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So as I was listening, it seems like you have a scientist's mindset. You're intrigued by things you don't fully understand, but you're drawn to them. Your way of finding out more is to dive deep, collect data points, and explore. You might start with a hypothesis, but as you gather more data, you either debunk or validate your initial theories.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

658.908

continuously refining your understanding until you reach a point where you discover your true passion. Would you say that's a fair summary of your experience?

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

675.567

Yeah, I would say I would agree with like 80-90% of what you share. The only thing I would say is I think oftentimes when you think about the scientific mindset, the one caveat is people then often spend a lot of time like creating the underlying theory on which your hypothesis is formed. And then you go into the idea of validating in a very scientific way.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

702.325

Whereas I think for me, especially when it comes to career, one, I think it's hard to be that scientific. And two, I think if you overthink about what is this theory underlying my preferences, I'm not sure if it's that helpful. So I agree with most of it, except I would say I'm a scientist that theorizes less when it comes to careers, I would say.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

726.899

A few episodes ago, I talked to one of my guests, who was actually my former professor at Chicago Booth. We themed her series Love and Logic. She studied computer science as an undergrad. but went on to earn her master's and PhD in theater history, a unique blend of art and science.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

757.092

Later, she taught entrepreneurship at the business school Chicago Booth, which made for a fascinating life experience. We discussed the balance between love and logic. As you shared your journey with me, I see a similar blend of art and science in your approach. I always believed that career development is a form of craftsmanship.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

791.015

Some people overanalyze and calculate every step, while others are more free spirited and go with the flow. But ultimately, it's about finding that balance between art and science, feeling our way and figuring things out as we go.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

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Yeah, that resonates with me.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

814.99

You mentioned agtech, education technology, as your focus. When I first got involved in the agtech space, and I still am, I was particularly active on the investment side. Every time I met an entrepreneur from any part of the world, my first question was always, why are you founding an ag tech company? The reason I ask is that when it comes to education technology, passion is crucial.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

856.308

Of course, you need to be smart and have the business acumen, the head, but the heart has to be there too. I found that in education technology, that fire inside your heart is essential. Especially in those days, venture valuations for other types of tech like fintech or blockchain were much higher, while agtech was relatively lower. That's why I really care about the why behind the work.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

87.063

I used to invest in education technology, and now Vince is building a new agtech solution. This episode is about transforming the learning experience and outcomes for everyone, both as individuals and as a community. If you care about elevating your career, work, and skills, stick with us. You won't regret it.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

895.373

What kind of impact do you want to make? And do you truly mean it when you say impact? So back to you, my question isn't just about why agtech, but also out of all the issues and opportunities in the learning space, why did you decide to focus specifically on live group learning?

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

924.798

A couple of things. So in terms of why group learning, which I guess for people's context, SparkWise is a platform that really scales live group learning where professionals come together. They'll be real time video solving problems. They are practicing judgment. They are giving each other feedback and they're really growing together and building skills together.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

950.464

And there are two things that I would say that really underpin this approach. One is, I mentioned I started my career at McKinsey, and then I spent my time in a lot of different organizations across all sectors, partly through work through McKinsey and then work through the international development stuff I did everywhere.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

973.343

One thing I really appreciate about McKinsey and consulting was that they invest a lot of resources into developing their people because people are truly their core asset. And it's a place where people fight to get onto training programs. And that's the first thing I experienced. So I just thought that was actually what training looked like in corporates. I thought, so they put you into teams.

Chief Change Officer

#179 Vince Jeong: From Immigrant Hustle to EdTech Muscle in Corporate Learning

998.067

So you work together, it's super interactive and it's really engaging. And I thought that's what training was until I saw how different training felt like in other organizations that just don't have the resources to invest at that level and at the scale that McKinsey was. And so and a lot of making the training that I really loved was in this live group format.

Chief Change Officer

#178 Wayland Lum: From Art Supplies to Executive Boardrooms —The Art of Betting on Yourself

100.694

Second, the eight principles of modern leadership he creates for his leadership clients. Third, his mission for human and AI coaching partnerships. Let's get started. Wayland, welcome to our show. Finally, I got you on the call with me.

Chief Change Officer

#178 Wayland Lum: From Art Supplies to Executive Boardrooms —The Art of Betting on Yourself

1311.152

Wow. As I was listening to you, two things really jumped out at me. First, you hit on this idea that leadership is a choice. that actually takes me back to my days at Chicago Booth. There was this professor, Linda Ginzel, who used to drill that idea into our heads constantly. Leadership was a choice, she would say.

Chief Change Officer

#178 Wayland Lum: From Art Supplies to Executive Boardrooms —The Art of Betting on Yourself

1339.818

And hearing what you talk, it's clear that idea really lines up with what you're describing. The other thing that struck me was your take on fear and courage. It reminds me of this animated movie, Inside Out. Have you seen it yourselves? They just released the sequel. The movie is all about human emotion. And there's this interesting dynamic between joy and sadness in the movie.

Chief Change Officer

#178 Wayland Lum: From Art Supplies to Executive Boardrooms —The Art of Betting on Yourself

134.714

If my memory serves me right, last time we met in person, it was in London. And last time I went to Texas, it was before COVID for South by Southwest. Time flies, yet I'm happy that we've kept in contact, we've reunited at some point, and now you come to my show to share your wisdom and insights with the audience. Thank you so much. How are you doing?

Chief Change Officer

#178 Wayland Lum: From Art Supplies to Executive Boardrooms —The Art of Betting on Yourself

1373.539

At first, they seem like totally opposites, right? As the story unfolds, you start to see how they're actually connected. The big lesson is that you can't really appreciate joy if you've never experienced sadness. I see a similar principle in what you were saying about fear and courage. They are not as separate as we might think.

Chief Change Officer

#178 Wayland Lum: From Art Supplies to Executive Boardrooms —The Art of Betting on Yourself

1405.678

They are two sides of the same coin, each one giving meaning to the other. Does this resonate with what you're getting at?

Chief Change Officer

#178 Wayland Lum: From Art Supplies to Executive Boardrooms —The Art of Betting on Yourself

1497.622

Wayland has left us so much to reflect on and explore. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#178 Wayland Lum: From Art Supplies to Executive Boardrooms —The Art of Betting on Yourself

Wei-Lan, let's start with your history. Your career in HR has been nothing short of remarkable. In college, you studied industrial and organizational psychology. Then after graduation, you've worked at some of the biggest and most influential institutions in the world, including the highest value company of the present day, NVIDIA. a global organizational consulting firm, CoinFerry.

Chief Change Officer

#178 Wayland Lum: From Art Supplies to Executive Boardrooms —The Art of Betting on Yourself

217.483

You've even spent eight years in Chicago and London, shaping the careers of MBA students at the top one business school, Chicago Booth. Now you're in Texas running your own leadership practice. Can you walk us through your career evolution?

Chief Change Officer

#178 Wayland Lum: From Art Supplies to Executive Boardrooms —The Art of Betting on Yourself

314.076

Here's what I find truly admiring and courageous of you. You've taken the leap from these large, prestigious organizations to running your own leadership practice. Many people will shine away from that, taking to their comfort zone the stable paycheck and the prestige of a big corporate name and a nice business card. But you did not.

Chief Change Officer

#178 Wayland Lum: From Art Supplies to Executive Boardrooms —The Art of Betting on Yourself

343.194

What was the critical aha moment that led you down this path of building your own practice? Was there a specific experience that made you think, this is it. I just need to do this. And once you made that decision, how did the transition actually play out?

Chief Change Officer

#178 Wayland Lum: From Art Supplies to Executive Boardrooms —The Art of Betting on Yourself

48.255

Back in college, he studied industrial and organizational psychology. Then after graduation, he worked at some of the biggest and most influential institutions in the world, including the highest valued company of the present day, Nvidia, and a global organizational consulting firm, CoinFerry.

Chief Change Officer

#178 Wayland Lum: From Art Supplies to Executive Boardrooms —The Art of Betting on Yourself

523.807

I am 200% agreeable with your choice in walking the walk and talking the talk. In a world where a lot of people just talk, a lot of times they will talk very, very loud without much substance at all. Walking the walk and talking the talk becomes very precious and courageous. Unfortunately, it is also something that is silenced by the noise in the world, but that's what makes a true leader.

Chief Change Officer

#178 Wayland Lum: From Art Supplies to Executive Boardrooms —The Art of Betting on Yourself

562.099

You are a coach, yet I'm curious, have you ever been on the other side of the coaching relationship? What was it like being coached and how has that experience shaped your approach with your own clients today?

Chief Change Officer

#178 Wayland Lum: From Art Supplies to Executive Boardrooms —The Art of Betting on Yourself

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is from Austin, Texas, in the United States, Wayland Long. His career in HR has nothing short of remarkable.

Chief Change Officer

#178 Wayland Lum: From Art Supplies to Executive Boardrooms —The Art of Betting on Yourself

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on your LinkedIn profile, you have this statement. We develop modern leaders to face the biggest business challenges. Speaking of leaders, who are the people you typically work with? Can you paint a picture for our listeners of the kinds of leaders you coach?

Chief Change Officer

#178 Wayland Lum: From Art Supplies to Executive Boardrooms —The Art of Betting on Yourself

72.596

He also spent eight years at Chicago Booth School of Business, helping MBA students shape their career futures. Now, he's in Texas running his own leadership practice. On this show, we'll explore three areas of interest. First, his career evolution from big corporations to consulting to business school and private practice.

Chief Change Officer

#178 Wayland Lum: From Art Supplies to Executive Boardrooms —The Art of Betting on Yourself

827.418

You know, we hear the term modern leadership thrown around a lot these days. I was wondering, what does that actually mean to you? How would you define modern in the context of leadership?

Chief Change Officer

#178 Wayland Lum: From Art Supplies to Executive Boardrooms —The Art of Betting on Yourself

950.896

For example, one of those is nature as majestic teacher. You're right. Nature serves as a timeless source of wisdom. Wisdom is both ancient and modern. Here's another one. Embrace life's stages and seasons. Every person is born, lives, and dies. We have seasons in life. Spring, summer, fall and winter. On this show, unfortunately, we can't go through all of those principles in details.

Chief Change Officer

#178 Wayland Lum: From Art Supplies to Executive Boardrooms —The Art of Betting on Yourself

988.026

But could we explore those a bit? Maybe you could share some real-world examples or stories that illustrate them that you use to help your clients become a modern leader to face, to embrace, and to master the biggest challenges.

Chief Change Officer

#101 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part Two

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I really appreciate that before our interview. Despite his busy schedule, Gargan made it a point to thoroughly understand the scope of my show. He asked for examples and even took the time to write down his career insights to share with me ahead of time.

Chief Change Officer

#101 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part Two

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When it comes to the customers you've worked with, I'm curious about something specific. What's the persona of your ideal customer?

Chief Change Officer

#101 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part Two

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How do you position your company? Is it mainly a software development company, a money management firm, or something else?

Chief Change Officer

#101 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part Two

1525.769

In your industry, there's a new type of stakeholder known as finfluencers, financial influencers. The younger generation often turns to them for money management advice via social media. is easily accessible, and they seem to crave all kinds of information.

Chief Change Officer

#101 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part Two

1550.043

But there are growing concerns about potential conflicts of interest and the creditability of these influencers, especially since they may lack formal financial education. Given this backdrop and considering your goal to help people become more knowledgeable about managing their money, which also positively impacts their lives, what's your take on this trend?

Chief Change Officer

#101 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part Two

1582.858

How do you engage with these influencers? perhaps promoting a product? And how do you assist your clients in becoming better decision makers and effectively multiplying their money? As your tagline on LinkedIn suggests,

Chief Change Officer

#101 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part Two

159.169

You've become financially independent and then decided to start this company to help others achieve the same. This makes me wonder, what does financial independence mean to you? I'm very eager to hear about your personal wealth philosophy. The term financial independence is heavily used online. In fact, often misused or reduced to just a buzzword.

Chief Change Officer

#101 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part Two

1724.482

As we near the end of our interview, I think is the perfect time to ask this question. You made a conscious decision to leave a tech company in your 40s and dive into entrepreneurship. Yet today, many people in their 30s, 40s, or even 50s are facing layoffs and feel compelled to change their career paths. They're also concerned about ageism in the workplace.

Chief Change Officer

#101 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part Two

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Could you share some practical advice for these folks?

Chief Change Officer

#101 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part Two

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But I'm interested in your genuine perspective and practices. How do you interpret and apply this concept in your life?

Chief Change Officer

#101 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part Two

1999.042

Yes, it makes sense. But in recruitment, there's always a focus on cost. HR and CEOs might lean towards hiring younger individuals because they offer lower salaries, even though the older candidates might be more experienced and competent. Sometimes they come up with their own justification that younger people are simply more creative or tech-savvy. This happens quite often in tech ventures.

Chief Change Officer

#101 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part Two

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Given that you run a tech venture as the CEO, would you consider hiring someone in their 40s? who's been pushed out of corporate life and is looking to start a new chapter by building a tech venture with you?

Chief Change Officer

#101 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part Two

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Gargan, I really enjoyed our conversation today. I know we've gone over time, but you have so much valuable insight to share. I didn't want to cut you off. I truly appreciate your time and all that you've shared with us.

Chief Change Officer

#101 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part Two

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Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#101 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part Two

45.083

Like many of my previous guests, Gargan is an immigrant who moved from India to the States about 20 years ago. With a mechanical engineering background, he began his journey as a grad student. About two years ago, he founded a FinTech company aimed at helping Gen Y and Z achieve financial independence.

Chief Change Officer

#101 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part Two

78.313

Speaking of financial independence, I've always been skeptical of it, seeing it more as a myth or a marketing buzzword. In true Chicago Bull style, Gargant and I will be exchanging viewpoints on this topic, agreeing to disagree while appreciating and understanding our different perspectives in a sensible manner. On top of that, Gargant will share invaluable insights on managing career paths,

Chief Change Officer

#101 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part Two

814.344

Let me share my take on financial independence if you allow me. Interestingly, I don't actually believe in it. And my reasoning isn't about the math. It's about human nature and psychology. We humans have desires at every stage of our lives. Whether it's craving the latest iPhone when we are younger or simply needing a functional phone as we grow older, our desires shape our financial behavior.

Chief Change Officer

#101 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part Two

856.121

I believe as long as we have desires, we can never be truly financially independent because our decisions are influenced by our pursuit of these desires and the financial means to fulfill them. Personally, I'm not just about numbers. I consider myself a philosopher at heart. despite studying finance and accounting and spending a decade in financial institutions helping people manage money.

Chief Change Officer

#101 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part Two

892.936

I'm fundamentally a humanist. Life is not only short, it is unpredictable. We might plan to achieve certain things by a certain age, but there's no guarantee we'll have the time. So for me, it's about focusing on the present, like building a good show here. Yes, I need to make and spend money to sustain it.

Chief Change Officer

#101 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part Two

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm thrilled to be speaking with my Chicago MBA classmate, Gargan Sandhu.

Chief Change Officer

#101 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part Two

923.94

But I do stress over really long-term financial plans because the future is after all uncertain. To me, managing personal wealth is less about math. and more about one's life philosophy, psychology, and the ability to tune out the noise and adapt to changes around us. That's my perspective on financial independence.

Chief Change Officer

#100 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part One

119.918

I really appreciate that before our interview. Despite his busy schedule, Gargan made it a point to thoroughly understand the scope of my show. He asked for examples and even took the time to write down his career insights to share with me ahead of time. So for the next 45 minutes, I guarantee you'll learn a lot from him. Let's begin, shall we?

Chief Change Officer

#100 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part One

1560.88

Let me share my take on financial independence if you allow me. Interestingly, I don't actually believe in it. And my reasoning isn't about the math. It's about human nature and psychology. We humans have desires at every stage of our lives. Whether it's craving the latest iPhone when we are younger, or simply needing a functional phone as we grow older, our desires shape our financial behavior.

Chief Change Officer

#100 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part One

1602.637

I believe as long as we have desires, we can never be truly financially independent because our decisions are influenced by our pursuit of these desires and the financial means to fulfill them. Personally, I'm not just about numbers. I consider myself a philosopher at heart. despite studying finance and accounting and spending a decade in financial institutions helping people manage money.

Chief Change Officer

#100 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part One

1639.472

I'm fundamentally a humanist. Life is not only short, it is unpredictable. We might plan to achieve certain things by a certain age, but there's no guarantee we'll have the time. So for me, it's about focusing on the present, like building a good show here.

Chief Change Officer

#100 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part One

1665.813

Yes, I need to make and spend money to sustain it, but I do stress over really long-term financial plans because the future is, after all, uncertain. To me, managing personal wealth is less about math and more about one's life philosophy, psychology, and the ability to tune out the noise and adapt to changes around us. That's my perspective on financial independence.

Chief Change Officer

#100 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part One

167.894

You're really a key part of this bigger journey you started off some time ago. It feels like just yesterday, maybe a year or two back, when we got on that call as you were beginning your venture. You had just left your corporate job to dive headfirst into your new endeavor. But before we dive into that, let's take a step back. I'd love to hear more about your background.

Chief Change Officer

#100 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part One

1982.364

Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

#100 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part One

201.906

What have you done before this? Let's explore some of the major milestones, moving across borders, adapting to different cultures, and how you've embraced change throughout your life so far. Let's start there.

Chief Change Officer

#100 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part One

45.083

Like many of my previous guests, Gargan is an immigrant who moved from India to the States about 20 years ago. With a mechanical engineering background, he began his journey as a grad student. About two years ago, he founded a FinTech company aimed at helping Gen Y and Z achieve financial independence.

Chief Change Officer

#100 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part One

486.296

Reflecting on my career, there are lots and lots of twists and turns, much like yours and those of many guests I've had so far on this show. I always ask this question. As we progress, often without realizing it, we uncover themes, motivations, or drivers that push us from one milestone to the next.

Chief Change Officer

#100 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part One

516.772

Although these stages might not appear linked on the surface, they are often connected by underlying forces. So it's clear our choices aren't as random as they might seem. Something is always guiding us. Have you thought about what drives you? What are your key motivators? What recurring themes have you noticed in your journey?

Chief Change Officer

#100 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part One

78.313

Speaking of financial independence, I've always been skeptical of it, seeing it more as a myth or a marketing buzzword. In true Chicago Bull style, Gargant and I will be exchanging viewpoints on this topic, agreeing to disagree while appreciating and understanding our different perspectives in a sensible manner. On top of that, Gargant will share invaluable insights on managing career paths,

Chief Change Officer

#100 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part One

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, I'm thrilled to be speaking with my Chicago MBA classmate, Gargan Sandhu.

Chief Change Officer

#100 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part One

905.417

You've become financially independent and then decided to start this company to help others achieve the same. This makes me wonder, what does financial independence mean to you? I'm very eager to hear about your personal wealth philosophy. The term financial independence is heavily used online. In fact, often misused or reduced to just a buzzword.

Chief Change Officer

#100 Gagan Sandhu: From Grit to Xillion — A Playbook for Reinventing Careers and Financial Freedom — Part One

939.434

but I'm interested in your genuine perspective and practices. How do you interpret and apply this concept in your life?

Chief Change Officer

#291 Ryota Tanozaki: Escape the Trap, Redesign the Map

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So what you're suggesting is managing both the highs and the lows, the setbacks and successes really comes down to perseverance, right? I remember when you moved from Facebook or Meta to TapList. which was called OYO. OYO, originally from India, a travel tech company. That was a fairly tough period of time. It was no joke.

Chief Change Officer

#291 Ryota Tanozaki: Escape the Trap, Redesign the Map

1056.961

Tell me, how did you tap into your perseverance to navigate the company through the early days of COVID, then the Tokyo Olympics postponement, and then now back to what we might call normal?

Chief Change Officer

#291 Ryota Tanozaki: Escape the Trap, Redesign the Map

108.382

And as a traveler, I can't get enough of the Japanese hospitality. In this episode, I'm talking with Ryota Tanasaki, the president and CEO of Tapest, who is innovating the Japanese hospitality industry. Ryota and I were MBA classmates at Chicago Booth. Since graduation, he's faced some fascinating yet unexpected career transitions.

Chief Change Officer

#291 Ryota Tanozaki: Escape the Trap, Redesign the Map

1146.103

You used the word perseverance, and often leaders like to use another buzzword, resilience. I totally get the concept as I've had to practice resilience myself over many years. But as a company leader, how do you impart this mindset, this resilience to your team? I'm not talking about operations or technology resilience. I'm talking about people, the human beings around you.

Chief Change Officer

#291 Ryota Tanozaki: Escape the Trap, Redesign the Map

1181.287

You might be incredibly resilient yourself. But if your team doesn't share that sense of resilience, it won't be reflected in the team, in the culture as a whole. Then the word resilience would just be a buzzword. So what's your approach to fostering resilience when it comes to building and managing your team?

Chief Change Officer

#291 Ryota Tanozaki: Escape the Trap, Redesign the Map

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chan, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. We fly all the way from US to Tokyo, Japan. I've always felt a special connection to Japan.

Chief Change Officer

#291 Ryota Tanozaki: Escape the Trap, Redesign the Map

133.442

For those unfamiliar, Tapest was originally part of a joy venture with SoftBank in 2019, with the headquarters in India. It was rebranded and localized as Tapest around 2022, with Ryota stepping up as the CEO. Tebby means truffle in Japanese, as you can imagine, as successful as his appointment sounded. This appointment came during a very challenging time.

Chief Change Officer

#291 Ryota Tanozaki: Escape the Trap, Redesign the Map

1333.837

So that's about the intrinsic motivation, the sense of mission, the sense of action. What else?

Chief Change Officer

#291 Ryota Tanozaki: Escape the Trap, Redesign the Map

1381.34

What you call astrology, I would say is a pathway. You or the investors have the vision, you execute it. But the people around you, they follow you. So in order to follow you, yes, they have a reason, that intrinsic motivation you've mentioned, but then you tell them, well, that's how we're going to do it. You call the strategy, you call the pathway, then you engage stakeholders.

Chief Change Officer

#291 Ryota Tanozaki: Escape the Trap, Redesign the Map

1411.572

The employees, of course, one of them, investors, partners, customers. It's a multi-stakeholder development and management process. What's your third thing?

Chief Change Officer

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Yes, that is leadership by example. I would also like to see this as you getting closer to your customer. You really want to learn about the situation, the problems. And then you show to your staff how you win accounts, how you solve problems. If they're smart enough, they observe how you do it. And then they follow you. They take some of your best insights, the best lessons, and then execute.

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It's also a kind of quality management so that you can train up your staff to deliver. Let's extend on this topic of leadership by example. Leader, one kind of leader, which I admire, is called servant leader. You lead by serving. Another kind is you lead by coaching.

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#291 Ryota Tanozaki: Escape the Trap, Redesign the Map

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So some of the best leaders I've worked for in my career life, they coach me on the side, make me become a better person, better leader. Now, I know that outside of office work, you teach marketing, social media strategy at one of the business schools in Japan. Share with me about your teaching experience as a faculty member.

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Leaders are like coaches, right? They're always helping others to learn and grow. Speaking of which, are there any books or resources that really changed the game for you? Maybe something you recommend to our listeners to help inspire them just as much as it did for you?

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postponement of the Tokyo Olympics game and the COVID situation, both of which rocked the travel industry. Over the next 20 minutes, Ryota will share not only his own career transformation, also how tapest has evolved during an incredibly challenging period for travel. I'll attach the press release about the company's background in the show notes for those interested.

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I haven't actually read the book High Growth Handbook myself. But what you just said reminds me of something I do fairly often. I'm not big on texting or using social media because I prefer writing things down by hand. There's something about the process of writing. It involves a lot of thinking, reflecting, and analyzing.

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#291 Ryota Tanozaki: Escape the Trap, Redesign the Map

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By the time I've written something out, I've already worked through a lot of the information in my head. And I also find that Even if I haven't figured out the problem, this process of writing, as I'm doing it, the answer comes through more naturally.

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Speaking of which, remember in our Leadership Capital class taught by Linda Ginzel, the social psychologist at Chicago Booth, she talked about how our brains can trick us into rationalizing or justifying our thoughts too quickly. She said, suggested that to think clearly we should write things down, not just to type it out, actually write it down by hand in its rawest form.

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#291 Ryota Tanozaki: Escape the Trap, Redesign the Map

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That way, you can come back to it later, maybe a day or even a week later, and see exactly what you were thinking at that time. It really helps you work through your ideas and find solutions. Clayton Christensen. Yes, he's been my favorite author for the longest time. Sadly, he passed away around the start of COVID. That book you mentioned, The Innovator's Dilemma, is absolutely incredible.

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Without further ado, let's welcome Ryota Tanasaki.

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But there's another one of his that I love, which is how will you measure your life? I highly recommend it to all my listeners, no matter what role you're in or what job you're doing. Anyways, thank you so much for your time today, Ryota. I'm really looking forward to our next conversation. I hope it won't be over a virtual setup next time.

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Instead, let's aim to be sitting next to each other, enjoying some beer and good food in Tokyo. Thanks again.

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Until next time, take care.

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When I was starting out, I loved my friends heading off to business school with big dreams of becoming CEO one day. The plan always seemed pretty straightforward. Get an MBA first, then join one of the biggest consulting firms, McKinsey, BZG, to tackle a bunch of business challenges across different industries.

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Then maybe at some point, they launch their own business or start climbing corporate ladder somewhere big, become the CEO, CFO, CEO somewhere. For them, MBA first, consulting next. But you kind of flipped the script a bit. You spent five years in one of the biggest corporations in Japan in a functional role in sales and marketing.

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then went into management consulting and stayed there for over a decade. Later, pursued MBA to get, I would say, some kind of extra edge. Now, before we jump into your experiences at Tapest, I'm really curious about your consulting days. Could you tell us about one of those projects? Maybe one that stands out as particularly memorable? Or that gave you some deep insights?

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My first trip overseas with my family took us to Osaka, Nagoya, and Tokyo when I was just 9 years old. Later, during my first year at Yale MBA, I joined the first-ever study trip to Japan, where 15 of us explored Japan's business culture, visiting companies like Shiseido, Toyota, NTT Docomo, and the Japanese government, including the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry.

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#291 Ryota Tanozaki: Escape the Trap, Redesign the Map

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I spent two years with you at Chicago Booth as classmate, yet I've never asked you the next question. I'm going to ask you now, and you give me your honest answer. What actually triggered you to get an MBA at Chicago Booth at that point in time?

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Ryota, as you were sharing your story, I did a quick Google search. Actually, three searches in about 10 seconds. I typed in change career at 30. I got about 2 billion results. Then I searched change career at 40. I got over 1 billion results. Finally, I entered change career F50. I found over 1.5 billion results. So altogether, roughly 4.5 billion results in 10 seconds about change career.

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I haven't done any other keyword searches. I'm sure if I go deeper, I'll find more interesting insights. So what does this search mean? It shows that at certain stages of our lives, at certain age, we are either compelled or forced to change careers, or we have a strong desire for change in today's job market.

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I would argue that we should embrace this change and be prepared to initiate the change on our own terms. In your case, you felt insecure. Some might call this a midlife crisis. I prefer to see it as a positive sense of crisis or a constructive insecurity. Why is it positive? Because feeling insecure drives you to take action. It pushes you to improve your security. It increases your chances.

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You fight for better job prospects. You move out of your country. You move out of your comfort zone. You went for an MBA degree. You network with people from different industries and countries. This expands not only your horizons, but also your opportunities, turning your sense of insecurity into a positive force in your life. Would you agree with my assessment?

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I even wrote a paper about the Japanese economy and banking industry after the trip. Between 2017 and 2019, I've been involved in ACTEC Japan, an international conference on the future of education technology, where I've been featured as a speaker for three years. As a business professional, I'm always amazed by Japan's culture of craftsmanship and its blend of tradition with modernization.

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You talk a lot about business strategy that has been a major theme in your career life. Would you say you are equally strategic about every career move you've made so far?

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How do you handle both setbacks and successes? People looking at your career might say, wow, you're incredibly successful. But we all know that behind every success, there are tons of challenges you've overcome. In fact, a lot, a lot of challenges. a lot of setbacks to support one instance of success. What is your philosophy for managing both the ups and the downs?

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I feel like you are the perfect person to offer some advice here.

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Some might say this sounds philosophical. But really, it's science. When you believe something is possible, your actions start to align with that belief. You try, you keep trying, you keep adjusting, you keep moving forward. But if you tell yourself, no, it's impossible, you never even start. It's not just mindset, it's behavior, thought plus action.

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Jodie Foster, the actor, the director, the producer, and a Yale grad, said it best in her masterclass. All you need to make a movie is pen, paper, and confidence. Not fancy tools, just the basics and believe in yourself. That really stuck with me. And honestly, that's what I've lived through too.

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#290 Lora Chow: Reveries from the Trading Floor to the Concert Hall — Part Two

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Nora Chow, fellow Yale alum, former fund manager, and someone whose journey mirrors mind in more ways than one.

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Nora, thank you very much for your time tonight while we live in the same city. We do this virtually and I really appreciate you take time out of your busy schedule to share so much with me, with us. Thank you very much.

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And that's the end for this series. Nora's story reminds us that mastery isn't always loud, and sometimes the most powerful changes begin in stillness. If you've been waiting for permission to go back to something you love, maybe this was it. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,

Chief Change Officer

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Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Chief Change Officer

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You let your heart stay in the background, not ignored, but quieter, still beating, still alive. You didn't silence it, but you asked it to wait while you focused on logic, on what made sense at the time. And then as life changed, maybe your heart changed too, and you decided it was the time to let it lead a little more, to let it take center stage.

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You are still the same Nora with sharp analytical skills, skills you developed in finance, skills you will still need as you undertake new endeavors. You are just choosing to use those skills differently now to support something more personal, more meaningful. So while you've shifted into using your artistic side to help transform lives, I see it as you finally giving your heart the spotlight.

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But your head is still right there, backing it up.

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So your music venture, what's the name of it again? And what does it mean? Any special meaning?

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#290 Lora Chow: Reveries from the Trading Floor to the Concert Hall — Part Two

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Yeah, I must say the world we live in now feels broken, fermented. and honestly depressed. That's why we're facing this huge crisis of loneliness and mental unwellness. And music, when I say music, I don't just mean classical. It could be pop, jazz, or whatever speaks to someone. It's such a powerful force to help us heal. Even in small ways, it can stabilize our emotions

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Bring us back to ourselves. Hopefully. Let's go back to your music venture for a moment. You got a mission. But what about the actions? You compose? You perform? What else are you doing as part of this work?

Chief Change Officer

#290 Lora Chow: Reveries from the Trading Floor to the Concert Hall — Part Two

We are both from Hong Kong, shaped by the same family and societal expectations to chase money, business, and brand names. We followed the expected path, elite schools, big careers, but eventually stepped away from the weight of titles, status, and what we were supposed to want. In this two-part series,

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Now you just published your new album, Referees on Ivory, which to me is like publishing a book. I just listened to it. I really like it. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if one day when my show gets bigger, I come to you and say, Nora, I want to commission you to write all the background music for the show. The intro, the outro, the whole soundtrack.

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The credit will go to you, of course, and that would make it a Yale creation. That's the day I'm really hoping for.

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You talk about music creation. composing, storytelling, and now we're entering a world that's increasingly AI-driven. We already have platforms where people can license soundtracks instantly. More people will use tech tools to generate music on their own. You are a human creator. You are classically trained. and not just trained, but over time, you've developed real skill, real craftsmanship.

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So I'm curious, how do you see AI stepping into this space? Do you see it as competition or do you see it as a push to step up your own game and differentiate yourself as a music creator?

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Yes, it's really about blending artificial and human intelligence. For me, this show is all about human intelligence. It's about life experience, real experience, human experience, the stories, the insight, the foresight, the hindsight, the heart. None of that can be fully replicated by AI. I'm not even worried about tools that can replicate my voice or my guest's voice.

Chief Change Officer

#290 Lora Chow: Reveries from the Trading Floor to the Concert Hall — Part Two

Nora shares how she returned to music, launched her new album, Referees on Ivory, and built a life that sounds like her, not someone else's script. From headphones to harmonies, this is a story about dropping the labels and choosing the nooks that matter. Let's get into it. The way I see it, for a period of time, your head led the way.

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Because at the end of the day, the way I ask questions is unique. The stories you bring are unique. You are unique. I am unique. The connection between you and me is also unique. This conversation is human-made. Sure, I use AI to check grammar and sentence structure in the show notes or tighten up phrasing, but no tool can replace me as the host, and no tool can replace you as the guest.

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It's all about balance between the human and the technology. Speaking of balance, let's go back to something we touched on earlier. the balance between head and heart. We are trained with logic, math, science, economics, but we also carry within us love, music, and the heart. Now you've chosen to follow your heart, but there are people out there who might be where you once were.

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Maybe they're younger. Maybe they've fulfilled the expectations placed on them. Played the game well, but don't feel fulfilled. They're still struggling between head and heart. So from where you are now, what would you say to someone who's feeling stuck? Someone trying to decide whether to follow their heart or their head? just how to balance the two.

Chief Change Officer

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You build a successful finance career over 10 years, but then what changed? What happened around 2020, 2021 that made you stop and finally listen to your heart? For the last 10, 20, even 30 years, it sounds like your head was in charge. What triggered you to finally make that ambitious change?

Chief Change Officer

#289 Lora Chow: Reveries from the Trading Floor to the Concert Hall — Part One

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Nora Chow, fellow Yale alum, former fund manager, and someone whose journey mirrors mind in more ways than one.

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Nora and I have known each other for quite some time now through the Yale Club of Hong Kong. Over the years, I've watched your growth and transformation. And I have to admit, I always assumed you've been a musician your entire career. But later you told me yes and no. You are definitely a musician by training, but part of your career actually took quite a different turn into finance.

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The way I see it, for a period of time, Your head led the way. You let your heart stay in the background, not ignored, but quieter, still beating, still alive. You didn't silence it, but you asked it to wait while you focused on logic, on what made sense at the time. And then as life changed,

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Maybe your heart changed too, and you decided it was the time to let it lead a little more, to let it take center stage. You are still the same Nora with sharp analytical skills, skills you developed in finance, skills you will still need as you undertake new endeavors. You are just choosing to use those skills differently now to support something more personal, more meaningful.

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So while you've shifted into using your artistic side to help transform lives, I see it as you finally giving your heart the spotlight, but your head is still right there backing it up.

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That's it for part one. We followed Nora's journey from mathematics and music to Morgan Stanley and back again. But the story's just getting good. In part two, we dig into how she's using music to challenge the status quo. Why classical doesn't mean stiff? and how her new album is both a personal statement and a public invitation. See you there. Thank you so much for joining us today.

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If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Shen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

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which happens to be the area I used to work in as well. So I say there's a lot of interesting layers in your journey. Let's start with a big question. Who are you? Tell us a little about yourself. where you're from, what you've done, and what you're doing now. And then we'll dive into different parts of your story and your transformation.

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When you first shared your story with me, there were a lot of things I could relate to. Not the singing or composing part. I'm definitely not a trained musician. I did learn piano as a kid, and I enjoy singing. I even did some vocal training later on, but that was more for public speaking. But like you, I was born and raised in Hong Kong.

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I took part in all those extracurricular activities growing up, including music. Then, like many of us, you went on to a great school. And at Yale, you chose to major in both music and economics. Can you take us back to that moment? You were around 18, starting college. What were you thinking back then when you chose those two majors? Why not just music or just economics?

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What made you want to combine the two?

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Yeah, Yale. This episode might feel a little Yale-biased since we're both alums, but it is really known for its liberal arts education. It gives us that freedom to explore, to try different things, and figure out what turns us on. No one at Yale ever said, you have to choose either the arts or the sciences. You are someone who's strong in both music and economics. That's rare.

Chief Change Officer

#289 Lora Chow: Reveries from the Trading Floor to the Concert Hall — Part One

We are both from Hong Kong, shaped by the same family and societal expectations to chase money, business, and brand names. We followed the expected path, elite schools, big careers, but eventually stepped away from the weight of titles, status, and what we were supposed to want. In this two-part series,

Chief Change Officer

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So truly, I applaud you for that. Now, I know you started learning music at a young age, and that love for music stayed with you. But I also see how studying economics gave you another toolkit, especially helpful when thinking about career planning, job options, and maybe even the practical side of life. That's probably why you ended up in banking and hedge funds. You knew how to hedge your risk.

Chief Change Officer

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But your heart, it kept pointing you back to music. Still, four years later, as a graduating student, you had to make a decision. Stay in the US, go back to Hong Kong, maybe take part in campus recruiting. So what was your thinking back then? you chose to go into finance and what led you to pick the more realistic path at that moment instead of diving straight into your passion?

Chief Change Officer

#289 Lora Chow: Reveries from the Trading Floor to the Concert Hall — Part One