Vince Chan
speaker
6,989 appearances
347 recordings
1 series
first heard Nov 2024
last heard Jun 2025
Vince Chan’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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Have you received any feedback so far from your clients on the model? I'm curious not just about what they say, but also your own reflections. After publishing the book and spending so much time developing everything, did anything surprise you once you started applying it? Any part of the model that worked differently than expected? Was something you've seen refined as you go?
I'm not talking about macro trends like AI or climate change, but more specifically, such as feedback from others and your own takeaways from using the model in practice. So after you published your book and started applying your own model, I'm curious, Have your clients or the people you work with given you any feedback on it? That's one part. The other part is about your own reflection.
When you actually applied the model in real cases, did anything shift for you? Maybe you gained new insights, or maybe it confirmed what you originally believed.
So COVID as a disease might be behind us, but how we handle health crisis, that's not in the past. We never know what might happen in the future. And the way we prepare or respond still really matters.
You've studied so many change models, and you are an expert in this space. But outside of your professional work, how have you applied those ideas in your own life? Or maybe help someone close to you, such as a friend, a family member, a colleague? Navigate change using what you know from organizational models.
I think that would be a great way to conclude this interview to show that you don't just study change. You live it.
Honestly, I've met a lot of people, for instance, in the education technology space where I was very active before COVID. I've spoken to many entrepreneurs who created new ventures and solutions. especially those focused on helping companies train and upskill their staff.
So I asked them, okay, you are building these tools, you are the champion of learning and development, but what about your own team? How do you invest in your own people? Most of the time, They either didn't expect the question or they said something like this. Oh, good point. We haven't really done much internally yet. We've been focused on the product and on serving clients.
That's where I start to see the gap. You talk the talk, selling solutions for upskilling, but you are not walking the walk inside your own organization. That kind of discrepancy always tells me something important about the founder or the culture.
Empathy isn't just for managers. It is a basic human skill. But honestly, we are wired to be self-centered. So even if a leader has a good degree of empathy, showing it in decisions is tough. Why? Because incentives drive behavior. I studied accounting and economics. I believe that. And right now, leaders and CEOs are paid based on numbers, such as revenue, growth rate, stock price.
not how people feel if empathy culture or staff well-being were tied to the bonus you would see a big shift but until then there's a gap between what we say matters and what actually drives action i agree that people don't get paid by some measurement of their empathy but
And that's the end for our two-part series. If you thought change was about tools and templates, Richard just flipped that. It's about trust, timing, and knowing when to stop talking. If you are in the business of moving people, not just systems, his advice is worth returning to. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard,
Don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top-rated reviews, check out our website, and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.
Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show, Chief Change Officer. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist humility for change progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Richard Carson, consultant, strategist, and the guy who once walked away from a government job to join the consultants he just hired.
In this two-part series, we talk about what happens when organizations try to change but forget about people Richard shares what most consultants get wrong, why empathy isn't optional, and how a terrible time tracking system inspired his now 39-step change model. It's practical, honest, and filled with stories you won't forget. Let's get started. Welcome, Richard. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.
Welcome to our show. You have this book called Book of Change. Naturally, this show is perfect for you. Before we start digging into your book and your learnings, tell us something about yourself, your journey leading up to the book.
I like what you said earlier. How even though you were an urban planner, you didn't exactly plan your own career path. It wasn't all mapped out. You just evolved along the way. Something would happen and you would think, yeah, this feels right. So you would dive deeper and then something else would come up. maybe connected to what you already like, and you would follow that too.
These days, people throw away the word perfect a lot. But your path wasn't perfect. It was real. It unfolded step by step. That got me curious. When you say something interested you, what actually sparked that interest? Was it just a gut feeling? Was it a hunger to learn something new? Or are you one of those people who's actually addicted to change?
Yeah, I agree with you on this. Totally.
Yeah, of course, everyone has their own idea of what getting better means. And in the office environment, it's not just about change. There's politics, power dynamics, and other things that aren't even part of the equation when we talk about improving or evolving. Some people resist change not because they don't understand it, but because change threatens the status quo.
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