Menu
Sign In Search Podcasts Charts People & Topics Add Podcast API Blog Pricing
Podcast Image

Coder Radio

641: Qdrant's Brian O'Grady

15 Feb 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?

3.777 - 29.152 Michael Dominick

We so bad. That's right. You got a Jar Jar. You deserve Jar Jar. So today I'm meeting with Brian from Quadrants. We're talking it's going to get mathy. It's going to be math. I have to deal with it. We're going to figure out once and for all if Phantom Menace is the best movie, which it is of the Star Wars movies. Just as you have to accept that in your heart.

0

Chapter 2: What is Qdrant and how does it relate to vector search?

29.733 - 53.102 Michael Dominick

OK, once you've accepted that, everything gets better for you. No, beyond that, it's really cool. Quadrant's really cool. Vector-based search. I'm going to go way into explaining what that means. So I'm not going to gild a lily here. I'm going to say, you know, always join the Discord. I have a very special link in the show notes. I actually was interviewed by USA Today, so I got a link to that.

0

53.663 - 78.612 Michael Dominick

Good stuff. Also, this is the first time I'm mentioning it. Go to vorpal.bot. That's V-O-R-P-A-L dot bot. to check out my new IoT-focused ERP system for MROs and weirdly industrial agriculture. I think you're going to find it pretty cool if you're in either of those spaces. It does, of course, tie into Alice. We can bring your legacy data over. Just launched as I'm recording this.

0

78.752 - 101.76 Michael Dominick

It's February 11th. And yeah, so it will be out before you know it. So literally probably the same day as this. Good stuff. There's a discount if you're interested in giving a kick in the tires. There's a 15% discount. Just use the show Jar Jar, the code Jar Jar, excuse me, or coder, whatever, just that you heard on the show. We'll go from there. Always check out the Discord.

0

102.541 - 112 Michael Dominick

We do have the mailbag episode coming. We also have another interview coming that had some audio production issues and is going to be a little out of time. So this...

0

Chapter 3: How does vector-based search differ from traditional search methods?

112.503 - 136.14 Michael Dominick

So yeah, timeliness-wise, this actually is coming out right when I recorded it, just about. So good stuff. Also, we are going to have out that portable game system episode very soon. I just finished my review of the PlayStation Portable that I have to write up. and the ROG Ally, the weird Microsoft edition, and of course the Steam Deck and Steam Deck OLED.

0

136.48 - 157.615 Michael Dominick

And I included the Switch, but I think it's kind of an affair. So yeah, that should be up. We're also going to be doing something with Linux gaming pretty soon, I hope. once the Steam Deck is out. So kind of a couple light things coming up. But then we're right back to the enterprise. So don't worry, big data nerds and people who love VPNs. We're going to be right there with you.

0

157.775 - 182.126 Michael Dominick

So like I said, check out the USA Today link. Check out Vorpal. Join the Discord. Here's Brian. Okay, prepare your Bon Jovi, your Bruce Springsteen, and fist bumps. Brian O'Grady is coming at us right from my home, the Great Garden State. In fact, from my county, Middlesex County. Brian, how are you? I'm doing well, Michael. Thank you. It's great to talk to a fellow Piscatawayan.

0

182.146 - 192.666 Michael Dominick

Is that how we call ourselves? Not exactly sure. Piscataway Inn, Piscatawayite, undetermined. Oh, man. How cold is it up there these days? I'm chilling here with my pina colada in Tampa.

0

193.347 - 218.042 Brian O'Grady

Yeah, we're sitting at 32 Celsius. Sorry. So I have my in-laws in the house. They're from Brazil. I have to translate to Celsius all the time. But it's 32 Fahrenheit. It's actually somewhat warm. I can tolerate going out in, you know, just like my just like a t-shirt now, because over the past few weeks, it's been hovering around zero. So much better than recently.

Chapter 4: What advancements in machine learning are impacting search technology?

219.136 - 242.241 Michael Dominick

That is terrible. I'm actually flying up next week. I do not look forward to it because I've become very cold-blooded down here, very reptilian. It's going to be a shock to your system. You know what? I'll be very alert. I will be coding faster than ever, I think. There you go. So that's not what we're here to talk about, my strange Florida man habits. Quadrant. So what the hell is Quadrant?

0

242.508 - 265.029 Brian O'Grady

Yeah. So I guess I'll start out with like kind of what we call ourselves, right? Quadrant is a search engine. And if everyone, many people in this audience have probably dealt with or heard of technology like Elasticsearch or OpenSearch, we categorize ourselves as a search engine that is specialized for vector search.

0
0

266.15 - 286.909 Brian O'Grady

When you think, you know, elastic search, open search, anything that's based on sort of, you know, the tried and true Lucene, you think, oh, this is like a text search engine. So I go on to retail website. Let's say I go on like homedepot.com. You start typing in, you know, I want a, you know, I want a ladder, right? So you type in ladder.

0

287.311 - 310.872 Brian O'Grady

When you're typing there, you get the dropdown and it starts doing this like search as you type. And then you can click on ladder as it auto populates for you. It takes it to a page and then it'll show you a bunch of ladders. This has been the market. These kind of like, you know, retail giants have traditionally served their search via elastic search, via solar, via open search, what have you.

310.852 - 339.137 Brian O'Grady

But where Quadrant comes is that we are not focused on the text layer of the search. We are instead focused on something that we call the semantic layer of the search. And this is where maybe things get a bit deep. This is where things get relatively nascent. But there was this development in 2019, 2020 in the machine learning space where researchers were able to

340.602 - 350.646 Brian O'Grady

transform text into numerical representation that preserved meaning. I'm going to stop there to see if Mike, if you have any questions on that.

351.908 - 365.394 Michael Dominick

Yeah. So it's interesting. Right. So I think and I could be wrong that the two the two the folks listening are the most familiar with are going to be Elasticsearch. Right. The Amazon solution. And just because I'm incredibly self-centered, I'm familiar with solar.

Chapter 5: How can businesses implement Qdrant in their existing systems?

366.036 - 372.448 Michael Dominick

OK, so I wonder what where do you differ from, say, an Elasticsearch? I think that might be the more popular one.

0

373.137 - 395.462 Brian O'Grady

Yeah. So, and this is where it starts getting into what the search engine was built for. And this is where I'm going with my whole, you know, text having a numerical representation. Sure. So yeah, The idea is that if you're just doing, say, keyword search, then that leaves out a lot of context, right?

0

395.482 - 415.001 Brian O'Grady

Like if I search for a bat on a generic website, let's say I search for bat on walmart.com, it might return... you know, stuff to do with like Halloween because thinking bats like the animal, it might return baseball bats. It might return something else, right? It's kind of unclear.

0

415.703 - 437.265 Brian O'Grady

Now, a word standalone bat, that doesn't tell you much information, but how people are normally interacting with search bars these days is they're kind of inputting these more like freeform queries that somehow give context, like what the person means when they say bat. But the issue with keyword search is that it is not able to understand like the actual context. It's just sort of doing like a

0

438.241 - 465.899 Brian O'Grady

short of exact match for keywords, right? And then returning results based on sort of statistics and not really trying to understand, quote unquote, the meaning of the search. So the real advancement that happened in the late 10s and earlier in this decade was this ability to take text and encode its meaning structurally into something called an embedding, which is also known as like a vector.

465.919 - 489.612 Brian O'Grady

So this is where vector search comes in. So rather than saying, hey, you know, just look for results that contain, like I type in to, you know, another good example might be, let's say I'm using like DoorDash. And I want to type in the search, like tasty fast food burgers within five miles. Right. Like that might be something I might say to DoorDash.

490.593 - 507.633 Brian O'Grady

Rather than trying to go ahead and look at all these words that are in there and try to match them to results. Like if I look for tasty. Right. And then try to match it to a result. You know, that's kind of odd. Like what kind of results actually have. food descriptions have tasty in them. Maybe a lot, right?

507.974 - 508.775 Michael Dominick

Well, maybe, yeah.

508.896 - 529.791 Brian O'Grady

Maybe. But like five miles away sort of becomes the issue where it's like, oh, okay, that means near me, but five miles away now starts getting brought into my text search, right? And I'm now looking for results that have the sequence of words five miles away in them, which is like going to be none if you're thinking about like a description of a food item. So what...

Chapter 6: What challenges do companies face when integrating vector search?

551.54 - 557.708 Brian O'Grady

Right. And I just need to show results that are near me that have like a burger or sandwich like item. Right. Right.

0

557.868 - 564.257 Michael Dominick

Right. So the operative part is the range. Right. The distance is more important than almost anything of that. Yeah.

0

565.459 - 592.971 Brian O'Grady

Yeah. Yeah. But like so the distance becomes a slightly different thing here. But what really matters is that now. were able to say, hey, I'm able to understand that burger is related to McDonald's. Burger is related to Burger King. Burger is related to Five Guys. But maybe burger isn't associated with Popeyes. So now when I'm doing my ranking, there's this kind of latent association between...

0

592.951 - 617.22 Brian O'Grady

disjoint words right like burger is associated with mcdonald's that you would not be able to capture in traditional text search but like with what's called semantic search where you're representing data has when you're representing text as vectors you're able to essentially do like if you remember from your sort of on like pre-calc days when you take like you know you drew on like a quadrant

0

617.2 - 624.567 Brian O'Grady

no pun intended, you drew a quadrant, right? You have like two points and you calculate like the literal distance between them. And then you take like, you can do this in hyperspace.

624.587 - 652.934 Brian O'Grady

You can have a vector that is a representation of text that you can then say, let's find literal distance between this representation of text as a vector and this other text piece of text that is also represented as a vector and calculate the literal distance between them to show what is most relevant to the user's query. So that's kind of like the very technical way of explaining it.

652.954 - 673.887 Brian O'Grady

But the way I kind of try to think about it is people get really hung up on this idea of like, well, what is this guy talking about? He's talking about text as vectors. But like, we actually need to take a step back here and say, what is text itself? Right? Like what, when we say tech, we kind of take text for granted. We take words for granted. We take language for granted.

674.272 - 694.183 Brian O'Grady

And what it really comes down to is if you think about it at a very granular level, text is simply a representation of language and meaning that we use to communicate with each other and to embody knowledge, right? That's why like there's a lot of, I don't know if you ever read any of those books where it's like a book about a book that is powerful, right?

694.303 - 705.727 Brian O'Grady

And when people read it, it like transforms their lives and everything, right? Like there's tons of books out there that have this, where books are sort of like this independent entity that are able to influence things around them.

Chapter 7: What is the significance of embeddings in search functionality?

708.795 - 713.727 Michael Dominick

Sorry, go ahead. No, I said damn you, Adkins. He killed everybody with that book. Keep going. Yeah.

0

714.689 - 730.815 Brian O'Grady

So the idea is Text is simply a representation of shared language and meaning that humans are able to communicate to each other. So text is a simple representation of this meaning that we are somehow communicating to each other with language.

0

731.635 - 754.928 Brian O'Grady

If we think about how could a computer somehow learn that same meaning and be able to communicate it, what you can do is you can simply say, well, let's simply, instead of representing language and meaning as text, let's represent it in bits and bytes, AKA numbers, like floating points and associations of floating points. So like vectors.

0

755.529 - 776.959 Brian O'Grady

So really an embedding and vector search comes down to this ability to take language and meaning. And rather than encode a language and meaning in like words and text, you simply encode it as numbers. And it's just another form of representation of meaning. And it's one that you can now perform mathematical operations on that are very convenient.

0

779.015 - 800.753 Michael Dominick

Right. So let me kind of dumb this down because I think you've got a lot there, right? So vector is a, oh God, you're going to want to choke me for this, but super simple for perhaps some of our folks in the audience who might still be students or something like that. Yeah. A vector is a mathematical, I don't like the word construct, but let's call it that.

800.733 - 824.488 Michael Dominick

It has both the value and a direction, and that's the key, the direction stuff. So in Brian's example of the hamburger, that was the hamburger. What was it? I want a burger 0.5 miles away or something? Yeah. Burger is both a value and a direction, where pizza would be a value but a different direction. I know it could get trippy. This is when you take calculus, you're all going to cry.

825.329 - 841.24 Michael Dominick

So the idea is... But stupid search, let's say you're using like an ORM right now. And this is I know senior data guys want to are going to want to send me emails. Go ahead. It's fine. If you're let's say you're using like active record, I'll give you the easy example.

842.181 - 860.371 Michael Dominick

You can use the built in search functionality, but it's literally going to do a string comparison in Postgres or whatever your underlying database is. For, you know, a burger would be B-U-R-G-E-R, and that's all it's going to do. It doesn't understand. Like, burger means bread, meat, maybe some lettuce, right? And onions.

861.232 - 868.962 Michael Dominick

What vectorizing it and what Quadrant's doing, what Brian's trying to explain, I think very well, actually, is...

Chapter 8: How does Qdrant enable search across different media types?

868.942 - 894.087 Michael Dominick

You assign a mathematical value to the concept of hamburger that and that value would also be nearer to the concept of, let's say, I don't know, steak sandwich, French dip, something like that. Right. Then in terms of quantifiable value, be closer to those than it would be to, let's say, sushi or, you know, martini. Right. Is that fair, Brian? I know I'm, like, way boiling it down.

0

894.587 - 915.348 Brian O'Grady

Yeah, and, like, we can even go further to say that, you know, like, if you think about this idea of just, you know, what things are close to each other, right? We can go kind of further. A good example, actually, that we may have missed on, unrelated to burger, but if you're just doing, like, let's just say you're just doing full text search. And let's say, like, very close synonyms.

0

915.428 - 917.871 Brian O'Grady

Let's say the word dry versus the word arid.

0

918.772 - 918.912 Michael Dominick

Mm-hmm.

0

918.892 - 942.916 Brian O'Grady

They mean like the exact same thing practically. Right. Like they're just slight variations on the same underlying meaning. Right. But if I do a search, you know, in Google and I'm like looking for, you know, arid, something arid. and it looks for arid climates, but all of my search results, I have no search results that contain the word arid. They all contain the word dry.

942.956 - 973.491 Brian O'Grady

I'm going to get no hits because suddenly I have filtered unnecessarily. I've done a keyword match for a word where none of the documents contain that. The idea is that by encoding pieces of text as numerical values, As humans, we know like, and English speakers, we know like dry and arid mean effectively the same thing. But like, you know, a text search engine does not necessarily know that.

973.812 - 994.88 Brian O'Grady

But by transforming them into vectors, we're now able to say, just like we're able to kind of like mentally map them to the same space in our brains, we're able to say, hey, like, yeah, dry, arid, they're kind of like the same thing, right? Vectors are now ways to simply represent that close association mathematically via like a literal distance function.

995.26 - 1007.86 Michael Dominick

That's perfect. And it's like a visual example for folks, right? And by the way, great name for your company, Quadrant. You've got it perfectly. Because what I'm going to say is think of a giant quadrant and every value, hamburger is one thing, arid is one thing.

1007.84 - 1034.332 Michael Dominick

They're all going to be, you know, in a theoretical location relative to each other where arid and dry are going to be very close to each other in that, let's say, 3D quadrant, right? Where hamburger and steak sandwich are going to be maybe on the other side, but also close to each other, right? It's the relative conceptual, quote unquote, nearness that we're getting at here. Crazy or not crazy?

Comments

There are no comments yet.

Please log in to write the first comment.