"The Department of Education is a big con job." That's just one of the things President Trump has said about one of the most high profile departments in federal government — a department Trump says he wants to eliminate.Trump says he wants to save money, and kill policies he doesn't like. Trump and Elon Musk's DOGE has already started cutting funding from the department. The Trump administration wants the Department of Education gone. But can they get rid of it, and what could be lost in the process? For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org.Email us at [email protected]. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy
Chapter 1: What is the Trump administration's plan for the Department of Education?
President Trump has given Linda McMahon, his pick to lead the Education Department, an unusual mandate.
I said to Linda, I said, Linda, I'm making you the Secretary of Education, but if you do a great job, you will put yourself out of a job. Because you're going to be sending it back to the states, and she's fantastic.
McMahon is the former CEO of WWE, then served as administrator of the Small Business Administration during President Trump's first term. During her confirmation hearing, she decried what she called a public education in decline.
If confirmed as secretary, I will work with Congress to reorient the department toward helping educators, not controlling them.
In fact, the Education Department does not specifically determine what gets taught in the classroom. What it does do is oversee programs that send billions of dollars to schools that serve low-income families and help educate kids with disabilities. This money has been one of the top concerns for lawmakers and educators as Trump talks about closing the department.
McMahon tried to address this during her hearing in an exchange with Republican Senator Bill Cassidy.
I believe, as he does, that the best education is closest to the child and not certainly from Washington, D.C.
If the department is downsized, would the states and localities still receive the federal funding which they currently receive?
Yes. It is not the president's goal to defund the programs. It is only to have it operate more efficiently.
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Chapter 2: Who is Linda McMahon and what is her role in the Education Department?
How would that change thing if, again, the bulk of this money remains, but? the apparatus administering it is gone. How much does that worry you?
Well, remember that the department also plays a critical civil rights enforcement role. It's the place where you go if you're experiencing discrimination, whether it's based on race or gender. It's the place that is protecting the rights of students. That would not be easy for another agency to do. And you want the leadership of the department to focus a national conversation on the urgency of
of good educational outcomes in K-12 and in higher education.
Margaret Spellings, Department of Education money, but no Department of Education. Is that a doable thing in your mind?
Well, I guess it's theoretically doable. I guess things, it makes me want to ask questions like, does that mean then that local school districts and universities and colleges are going to have to interface with a multitude of agencies, whether it's HHS or the Homeland Security or the Department of Justice or the Department of the Treasury and on and on and on.
And I wonder, is that a more efficient way to run things than currently? I mean, what is the problem we're trying to solve?
And to the extent that people are frustrated with the lack of student achievement that we've seen, particularly post-COVID, and what folks perceive as indoctrination or a woke agenda coming from school districts, then they should take those issues to their local school boards and to their state legislatures because there are express prohibitions against that from the federal department.
I want to talk about some of those things, and I really want to talk about just the broader state of education. But Margaret Spelling, quick question to you. For a long time, Republicans have criticized the reach, the size of the Department of Education. How different to you is this particular moment what the Trump administration is calling for from what we've seen for decades?
Well, you're right. I mean, it's been sort of standard Republican orthodoxy, except for my former boss, George W. Bush. And, you know, is it right for us to calibrate the right role between the feds, the states and the locals? You bet. And we've been doing that over the many decades.
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Chapter 3: How does the Education Department currently support schools?
It's two former education secretaries, Margaret Spellings and John King. Thank you so much to both of you for joining us.
Thanks.
This episode was produced by Jordan Marie Smith and Elena Burnett and was edited by Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sammy Yannigan. Thanks to our Consider This Plus listeners who support the work of NPR journalists and help keep public radio strong. Supporters also hear every episode without messages from sponsors. You can learn more at plus.npr.org. It's Consider This from NPR.
I'm Scott Detrow.