Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. Stories with Nancy Grace. Epstein baby. Jeffrey Epstein has a baby. This, while a search for bodies is going on, a search for human girl bodies is going on at Epstein's Zorro Ranch. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
Authorities launched a major criminal search of Jeffrey Epstein's former Zorro Ranch in New Mexico. They began searching the 7,600-acre property due to a tip alleging that two girls were buried in the hills outside the ranch on Epstein's orders. Jeffrey Epstein has a baby? Okay, I want to talk about that, but frankly, a baby is not my business anymore.
Dead bodies are straight out to Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University author, Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of a hit podcast series, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. a search at Zorro Ranch for at least two girls' bodies? Now, first of all, hold you, Scott. Dave Mack, Crime Stories investigative reporter, I just need two words out of you. Where is Zorro Ranch?
South of Santa Fe, New Mexico, 30 miles. See, I said two words and then you just blew that. You blew that up. New Mexico.
Chapter 2: What prompted the search for bodies at Epstein's Zorro Ranch?
New Mexico, Joe Scott Morgan. New Mexico. Here in the U.S. Let me see Joe Scott, please. Joe Scott, we're not talking about wrongdoing in the U.S. Virgin Islands or in London or in France or in the stands. We hear a lot about from Lynn Shaw where girls are imported things. to Lolita Island for Jeffrey Epstein and all of his clients. But there is no client list. Forget about that. That's BS.
This is here on U.S. soil. And we're just hearing about it. Tell me what you know. Well, what I know is that they've had an email that had come in in one of these dumps, in one of these tranches of data that has been released. And of course, a lot of it's redacted.
But what was stated is that there are at least two victims, according to the source, that have gone out and they have stated that they used to work there at the Zorro Ranch. They claim that during some kind of wild perverted sex act, that two, not one, but two individuals, young women were choked to death, that they were essentially asphyxiated.
And then their remains were taken out onto this property, which Nancy to say it's vast is an understatement. taken out and they were buried in the hills surrounding this area. It's very non-specific, but right now, according to what we're hearing, there's a search going on of this property looking for these remains. I have to think about it's looking for a needle in a stack of needles right now.
After Epstein's death, our own FBI said they, quote, lacked evidence to search the New Mexico Zorro Ranch. Now, this as they swarmed Epstein's Manhattan townhouse and his private island in the Caribbean, but not New Mexico. Straight out to Dave Mack, Crime Stories investigative reporter. I'm going to go back to Joe Scott, Dave, on the...
way the methods you use in trying to find dead bodies that have been there for a period of years. Can cadaver dogs even find them? But I want you to bring me up to date in a nutshell about the search of Zorro Ranch right here, U.S. soil. On a ranch owned by Epstein, but even after his death, the FBI said we don't have enough PC to search for dead bodies? Really?
Nancy, when you talk about searching Zorro Ranch, you're 30 miles outside of Santa Fe, New Mexico. The ranch was owned by Jeffrey Epstein from 1993 until after his death.
death the search is actually on a part of the property that was leased from the state of new mexico jeffrey epstein specifically leased this additional property to graze cattle wait a minute wait a minute jeffrey epstein known child sex trafficker multi-millionaire leased this land from the state it belonged to the state and now we're searching for girls bodies there on you Go ahead.
Zorro Ranch is large, but it also includes about 1500 acres of land that was leased to Jeffrey Epstein by the state of New Mexico. And it is on this property where these bodies are allegedly buried. Again, you mentioned this a minute ago, but it bears repeating. Jeffrey Epstein's properties in New York, Florida, and all over the place were all searched, not Zorro Ranch.
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Chapter 3: What allegations have been made about Zorro Ranch's history?
Let's hear it. Standing here at Zorro Ranch, a place represents such trauma and nightmares for my sister and so many other survivors is harder than I ever imagined. It is a crucial piece in getting to the bottom of truth and accountability here in our state to hold those who are still able to be held accountable to the law as well as seeking justice and healing for survivors here in our state.
Tell it, Stansbury, tell it from our friends at ABC. Now remember, Virginia Jeffrey was one of Epstein's victims. And she's the one that busted Andrew, formerly known as Prince, for having child sex with her. She was a teenage girl. There he is. He swore up and down. This photo is fake. But then he paid a multimillion-dollar settlement to Jeffrey, who then turned up dead. reportedly by suicide.
Okay, straight out to Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us, renowned psychoanalyst, author of Deal Breaker. You can see her now on Peacock and you can find her at DrBethanyMarshall.com. Dr. Bethany, I have investigated and prosecuted the cases of so many rape victims. including adult rape victims that were raped and abused when they were children, little girls.
Bethany, you can explain it better than me, as can Lynn Shaw. But they're never the same, Dr. Bethany. And what triggered this in my mind just then was hearing Jafray's brother, Danny Roberts, there at Zorro Ranch, where they're looking for girls' bodies right now. How long have they been there? If they are there, how long have they been buried? Did nobody go looking for them?
Did they just fall through the cracks? I hate that phrase. There's no such thing as falling through the cracks. Somebody failed. either their parents, the system, someone failed. It just didn't happen. Nothing fell through cracks. But these women that I have worked with, literally thousands of women over the years, they're never the same. They go on.
If you see them at work or the grocery store, sitting in the pew next to you at synagogue or church, they seem perfectly fine. They're not. It's like, as I've always said, breaking your arm and never getting it set. You will learn how to flip a pancake, but it's never the same. You're never the same after your heart is cracked wide open. I can say that much. You can explain.
You know, Nancy, in order to understand the trauma, we have to get away from the words rape and rough sex and use the appropriate terminology, which is torture. Okay. If these girls died, there was torture, and if there are two girls, there are more, all right?
So if we think of the perversions, which all clustered together, and Jeffrey had all of them, we think of exhibitionism, that's why he was on that massage table, so he could display himself. Voyeurism, remember, he was reported by a neighbor in Florida for being a peeping Tom. Okay, but pedophilia, but sadism, is one of the perversions.
So that's one of the things that hasn't been adequately talked about is that he was probably likely torturing those girls and that's why they died. Now, maybe he wasn't sticking nails into them or hanging them upside down like some perps we talk about. But when you choke somebody until they die, when you are strangulating them, you are looking for fear and terror in those eyes.
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Chapter 4: How did authorities respond to the claims about medical experimentation?
Now, at the time, the individual was trying to sell copies of the videos, asking for one Bitcoin. It was only worth about $8,000, but that was the price this former employee was demanding. Now, all of the... Emails were to the FBI, which is how we found out about them in the property dump that came out on Epstein. There will be more.
But that's the videos that were surreptitiously recorded at Zorro Ranch involving underage girls. This is like no ranch I've ever seen. This so-called ranch is 30,000 square feet. Look at this video from our friends at KOAT. Look at that, 30,000 square feet sitting on nearly 8,000 acres. The bodies could be anywhere. How long is it going to take cadaver dogs to search all of this for Pete's sake?
That is unlike any ranch I've ever seen. Wow. Okay. What more do we know? Now, this is crazy. Dr. Bethany Marshall, conspiracy theorists are saying that the entire war in Iran is to take our attention off Epstein. They are also saying the search for our friend Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie, is some type of crazy plot to take our mind off Epstein. Nobody's forgotten Epstein.
We're combing through every document that we get. And trust me, there's a lot more that they're holding on to. But Dr. Bethany, what is wrong with people? Well, you know, and Congress hasn't forgotten either. The Truth Commission is interviewing or questioning people every day.
You know, Nancy, conspiracy theorists, it's really associated with narcissism, meaning that a person plants an idea in their own head based upon some thin truth or reality, and they overvalue what they know. It's like a form of grandiosity. and they have a low interest in the truth.
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Chapter 5: What challenges do investigators face in searching such a large property?
So it's interesting because these conspiracy theorists who are piling on, in a way it's a little bit like this employee who wanted to sell information about girls being tortured for $8,000. She's trying to monetize the crime. So that tells me just how much Jeffrey Epstein had people around him who were also criminals. like an enterprise. I also think that this ranch is interesting.
It's like the island. It's so isolated so that people cannot get, girls, children cannot get away. And what we know about sex offenders is they organize their entire lives around their perversions. An island, Lolita Express, a ranch way out in nowhere, a Manhattan townhouse where he can entertain royalty and rich businessmen. and woo other people to come in and join in on his crime.
So back to the conspiracy theorists, there's a thin little bit of truth, whereas there's a lot of distraction going on because there are a lot of men and women who are just sweating it out right now, hoping we will forget. But you're right, Nancy, we haven't forgotten. You're covering this night after night after night. So you are doing right by the victims.
But right here, hidden in plain sight, Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell built something very different, a house of horrors. We're here to say that money and power do not buy you a different set of laws. And one of the significant and important pieces of this case is to understand why justice was never pursued at the state, local or federal level. So this investigation is a crucial piece
of trying to understand what happened at the ranch, to look for potential crimes that may have occurred on the ranch property, especially because after Jeffrey Epstein was arrested in 2019 and other properties were searched, Zorro Ranch was never properly searched. KRQE and from Representative Melanie Stansbury. crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Epstein files still to be released, major redactions, and I guarantee you, regardless of what Bondi has said, we've had conflicting reports from her. There is a witness list. There is not a witness list. Just got Morgan. There's not a witness list on a silver platter on top of a Christmas tree with a bow on it. That's not how it works. You have to comb through every document.
You have to follow leads like this employee that observed the torture and possibly death that occurred at Zorro Ranch right here on U.S. soil, not far away in France, not in the stands, not in his Lolita Island at U.S. Virgin Islands, but right here. Under our noses. Do you know he had that property over 30 years? You want to tell me nobody noticed anything?
Multiple now grown women say they were groomed there. Hey, Joe Scott, I want you to listen to Juliette Bryant, an Epstein victim. As the plane took off, he started forcefully touching me in between my legs. And I just freaked out. And I realized I suddenly realized, oh, my God, my family aren't going to see me again. These people might kill me.
New Mexico's Zorro Ranch is a place where multiple crimes were reported both to federal authorities as well as state and local authorities. In fact, there are records dating back to the mid 1990s of abuse happening at the ranch, including a report to the FBI in 1996 by a survivor and multiple other reports over the years. Back to the 90s and nobody did a thing. Nobody did a thing.
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Chapter 6: What evidence supports the claims of buried victims at the ranch?
So this is a sexual predator, Ghislaine Maxwell, all of their complicit people with them. And I have to end with an asking you, why do we have to keep begging for files to be released, names to be released? These victims have told us names over the years. Let's go and find them. Let's, you know, charge them with something. Let's ask them to show us. Let's question people.
I do not understand the holdup, but you know what? I fear we will never get to the bottom of this crime ever. Speaking of the victims at Zorro Ranch that many people are just now hearing about, and this is happening under our own noses on U.S. soil. Listen. And I suddenly realized I had to, like, just be nice and be friendly because I realized that I was in great danger.
And he's assaulting you and the other women there. And they're laughing. Yeah, they saw and they just laughed. I was really, really petrified. And, you know, it just really changed me, the whole thing, you know, going through this. And I just didn't know what to do. And I just really thought that I was going to die. That is Juliet Bryant, an Epstein victim, speaking to our friends at Sky News.
Dr. Bethany Marshall, it's classic. It's textbook luring. Money was nothing to Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Nothing. She stood by and watched this happen. She lured the girls there. She took part in the assaults. And now she's sitting in club fed, running the jail. But this is classic. You know, Nancy, it is classic.
And to add to what Lynn Shaw said, which was so profound and riveting to just to listen to her, you know, pedophiles also, they, they lure other pedophiles too. So there was a whole group of people on this ranch who were in on it. It's like it was operating like a cult in a sense where all the benefits flow to the leader.
But I think another thing that Jeffrey Epstein did to lure these girls is that he, he, propped himself up as this kind of guru and he started giving them advice about their future. That's a little bit like P. Diddy, right? You know, I'll make you a star. I'm going to give you a singing contract.
This guy, Epstein, was so good at getting money from other people and he lorded over these girls and made them feel like they would be rich and famous too. And by the time he began molesting them, Nancy, a part of the grooming process, is that for the victim, confusion sets in.
These girls would have told themselves, well, I went here voluntarily, I enjoyed the mani-pedis and the movies and the cash, and I did tell him that I wanted him to be a part of my future. Maybe I caused this to happen. That is the confusion of the victim until the terror sets in and they try to get away. And then they are in this isolated place. You know, Nancy, it's like the FLDS cult.
Remember when the women tried to get away, other cult members actually went after them, attacked them, brought them back, tortured them, brutalized them. So there's going to be an intimidation process on this ranch that when the girls try to get away, they're brought back and probably beaten and tortured even more. Nancy, there was no getting out of it at that point.
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