Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie, missing day 30. Is this possible? Was the case bungled at the get-go and can it be recovered? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Look at the perp. Five foot nine to five foot ten.
Chapter 2: What updates are there on Nancy Guthrie's disappearance after 30 days?
Video is always the best evidence. Is there an accomplice? Something protruding that resembles a phone. The vehicle is the linchpin to cracking a case wide open. How the hay has this guy managed to outsmart the feds? This case is full of hypothesis, theories, mystery guy in a video, when in the end, it comes down to an 84-year-old woman who's not with her family.
Straight out to Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave Mack, day 30. What's the latest? We are now at that one month part of the investigation of the kidnapping of Nancy Guthrie. And it's shocking that as we are moving this week, it's like a whole new investigation. There's been a lot of movement in the last couple of days. Specifically, homicide detectives are now added to the case.
Also, the photos, the video from the Ring doorbell camera that we had last week of cars at 2.30 in the morning, about two and a half miles from Nancy Guthrie's house. Well, now where the FBI at first said, well, there's not much to it. It's not part of the investigation. Well, now everybody is flipping and saying, yes, this could be the break in the case.
We've got a camera showing a car driving towards the house at 230 and leaving back the same way, 237 or 238. Brian Fitzgibbons, as we look at The car's two and a half miles from the house going back and forth. As we look at the right wrist of the suspect on the front porch, is that a tattoo?
We also spent a lot of time talking about a possible walkie-talkie communication device in the front pocket. But now, taking a closer look, it appears to be an antenna sticking out of the perp's pocket. Talk to us about what we're looking at or what we're possibly seeing. Is that an antenna and what would it be? Yeah, absolutely, Dave.
So speculation has gone really in two directions with this antenna. One, that it's a walkie talkie that the perpetrator was using to communicate with a driver so as to not leave behind any cell phone data or signals. And the second piece, direction this speculation is going, is that it could very well be a signal jammer. Now, what is that signal jammer?
This is a $30 to $40 device that can easily be obtained on illegal online markets. And that signal jammer will broadcast a radio frequency that will effectively overwhelm any devices connected to Wi-Fi within a 25 to 50 meter range. Now, how would that be used here? We see in many home invasion burglary cases, these types of signal jammers being used.
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Chapter 3: What new evidence has emerged from video surveillance in the investigation?
And what it's going to do is effectively disconnect those security cameras, in this case, the Nest camera, from sending any push notifications, emergency alerts in that short window of time while you're close to the device. New video footage uncovered of 12 separate vehicles speeding by in Nancy's neighborhood directly onto her street between 12 a.m. and 6 a.m.
The very night Nancy is abducted around 2 a.m. Shocker. One of those vehicles that many people have identified as a Kia Soul, Speeds by just eight minutes after Nancy Guthrie's pacemaker stops connecting to Bluetooth. What is the significance? Let's see a look at what the FBI is looking at along with us. This is a neighbor around two miles away from Nancy Guthrie's home.
This is from their home cam street facing. Why is this significant? This is from our friends over at Fox News Digital, by the way. Look at the vehicles. They're not just vehicles in the neighborhood. They are vehicles. This goes right onto Nancy Guthrie Street between 1230 a.m. and 6 a.m. Who is out driving around at the exact time Nancy Guthrie is kidnapped a few blocks away?
One of the vehicles. just eight minutes after her pacemaker disconnects from Bluetooth. Joining us, an all-star panel, but first of all, straight out to Dave Mack, Crime Stories investigative reporter. Dave, tell me about this video. You know, Nancy, it's shocking when you look at the video, you're seeing this Ring camera picking up the car, driving on what is considered a back road.
It's not a road that is traveled on a regular basis by a lot of people, but those familiar with the area, Nancy, would know this is a perfect way out of Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood. And as you mentioned, The 2.36 a.m.
marker is really important because Nancy's pacemaker attached by Bluetooth at 2.28 a.m., this is about seven and a half minutes later, the exact amount of time it takes to drive from Nancy Guthrie's home to this location on the Ring doorbell camera footage we're seeing. This camera footage
was available, Nancy, but it was just outside of the two-mile circumference that law enforcement put up as their ring around the actual crime scene. It's two and a half miles away from Nancy Guthrie's home. But again, it is an area that leads away from her neighborhood, and it perfectly catches these cars. We mentioned a minute ago, between midnight and 6 a.m.
that day, 12 cars traveled down that road. This one at 2.36 a.m.
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Chapter 4: How are investigators using video footage as a tool in this case?
Guys, this is from our friends at Fox News. Let me go straight out to special guest joining us. Eric Drickerson is with us, former FBI special agent, 20 years, who has specialized in international kidnapping. Many times in your cases, you have used surveillance video like this. And this was a near miss. It was just outside that two mile radius where the FBI and local sheriffs were looking.
What do you make of this, Eric? Yeah, Nancy, this falls in line with their normal investigative procedure. What they're going to be doing, obviously, they're focusing on the evidence collected at the scene of the crime. But as they work
further and further away from that epicenter they're going to look at cameras the next logical step would be to follow points of entry and exit to the community uh they're going to be looking at what we call choke points or where vehicles have a tendency or a natural tendency to flow and they're going to be trying to put together additional pieces when i look at this video
The unfortunate side is obviously the resolution doesn't provide us details like license plate numbers, provide insight. It does provide enough detail for them to follow up on additional leads. And Nancy, this could be something that is significant in the case. I talked about this before.
As they open that circumference from the center of the crime, they're going to reveal additional information. Now, I would like to say whether or not this vehicle was involved in the actual crime itself, it is of significant relevance because it was in the area when the crime occurred.
So whether it is directly related to the criminal activity or to the abduction, or whether or not they are a valuable piece of evidence in being a witness, it's still a very, very relevant breaking evidence and news. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Now to Brian Fitzgibbons. You know him well. He is Director of Operations, USPA, Nationwide Security.
Brian, you and I have dealt with a lot of cases that were cracked because of a car. Already, our online sleuths have identified one of the vehicles as a Kia Soul. What do you make of the car? information. Yeah, you're spot on here, Nancy. And very quickly, online sleuths identified that this is a key assault. And I want to add something.
Eric did a great job describing how they're expanding that radius with collecting video. Sources have reported that law enforcement has collected nearly 10,000 hours of surveillance video related to this case. So what does that say to us? This video happened to come to Fox News.
There are tens of thousands of hours that has not come to Fox News and that law enforcement is going through the process of triaging based on the time, the location of those cameras, the time of the recording. And they're starting to process that all now. A lot is being made online. It's helpful. It's not helpful. It's a dead end. It's a lead.
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Chapter 5: What theories are being discussed regarding the suspect's identity?
She is the co-author of Practical Mobile Forensics, now in its fourth edition. Wow. Heather, thank you for being with us. Heather, I want to circle back to the video that has just surfaced about the video of the vehicles flying by at the same time Nancy Guthrie is kidnapped in her neighborhood. What do you make of that?
Video forensic experts will be able to slow down those vehicles to the point of us being able to identify make and model. They should also be able to detect speed. So if you think you're involved in a crime, you're probably driving pretty quickly. And this is exactly what happened with Brian Koberger. He tore out of that neighborhood in that vehicle.
That car was the second most important identifier to the DNA to getting access. to Brian Koberger and leading to an arrest. So this could be what investigators need all along to identify who is involved in this crime. So, Heather, what about the fact that to the naked eye, to us, the video looks blurry? Oh my goodness.
In my terrorism investigations, we were able to identify things that you can enhance this footage. Think about what AI can do for us in forensics. This is a perfect example of using AI to clean up an image, remove the blur, slow it down, and have vehicle experts say, I know that this is likely this make and model probably of this year.
And then you go into the records and see who in that area owns the vehicles that match that description and it will really pare down the amount of people that need to be questioned at this time. Todd Shipley joining us, digital cyber crime expert, former detective Sergeant Reno PD. Todd Shipley, thank you for being with us. How will the feds go about enhancing this video?
Well, they're going to take the screenshots out of it and try to figure out what they can find from that one particular shot. and identify if there's anything that's usable in that shot. It's a pretty quick shot that's moving, so it's not something that's going to be an easy thing to do, but they're going to take that video in the stills and try to enhance whatever they can to find anything.
Descriptions, bumper stickers, the license plate, obviously, if they can figure any of that out. The year, make, and model obviously is important because then they can start tracking down who owns those in the state and try to figure out you know, what potential list of suspects they might have who own that kind of car and then start contacting each one.
Guys, this video from our friends at Fox News. Someone out there knows something that can bring her home. Somebody knows. We are begging you to please come forward now. We have been given video from Nancy Guthrie's front porch. Look at the perp. He's ready. He's got his hands covered in gloves. Look to be latex, not the thin surgical gloves, thicker latex. He's wearing a backpack.
Hey, jump on that. What kind of backpack? Sold where? When? leaning over what is he doing you're about to find out genius pulled some foliage and he's going to try and cover up the camera with it he's still trying to get it loose he's still trying to crack it loose leaving no fingerprints. Even his wrists are covered up. Keep going. Keep going. There you go with the foliage.
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Chapter 6: What role does the FBI play in the investigation of Nancy Guthrie's case?
Check out the backpack, reflectors on the shoulders. Come on, can't we track that? Can we zoom in and get the shoes? We can get his height. We can get so much information. Now let's see the stills off his face. Bring it in. Bring it in. Let's see the stills. Okay. You know what? She may have had a heart attack. She wakes up and sees that. That looks like a white guy to me.
A white guy right there. You can't see it. It almost looks feminine. But apparently in some of the pictures you see facial hair over the lip. Keep looking. Keep looking. Is that facial hair over the lip? It looks like brunette facial hair. Can't tell exactly. Keep the picture up there. Dave Mack, does that look like facial hair over the lip? It looks like a mustache to me, Nancy.
It absolutely does. Looks like chin hair as well, Nancy. Okay, from that, we are learning so much. Again, it almost looks feminine, except for what we think could be facial hair. Joining us, an all-star panel, this as we are also learning that buccal or buccal swabs are being taken from the inner circle surrounding Nancy Guthrie, the pool guy, the gardener, the granny nannies, the you name it.
And if they're getting buccal swabs from them, I'm sure they've already gotten them from the family. Now, somebody please tell me we've strapped everybody up to a polygraph. And again, I want to show it again, the guy walking up, the guy, the person, the perp, walking up. See, he's even got his neck covered, thinking we won't be able to identify what color he is.
This is not just a robbery, just a burglary. We've been going round and round, some people chasing their tails. Is this really a kidnap? I can tell you right now, nobody goes through all this to run in and grab your VCR. What has he got in the backpack? It is chock full. What's in there? It's stuffed so much you can see when he turns around. He's not going in there to take anything.
He's taking things in with him. OK, keep showing it. Let's go to the experts straight out to Lee Neubecker joining us out of Chicago. Cybersecurity digital forensics expert, CEO of Enigma Forensics. What about it, Lee? What do you see?
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Chapter 7: What significant details have been identified about the suspect's clothing?
Well, it's interesting because he hunches down as he goes through the walkway. Had he not hunched down, you could go on site, measure the bricks, and get his height. I did a little bit of looking and making some assumptions, and I think the guy's probably between 5'11 and 6'2. But you can also see his shoe size as he steps on those bricks, like right now, and also the first step.
Hold it, hold it right there. Right there. Yes, you're right. Stop. You could back up, and if you knew the exact size of that brick, you could probably tell what his shoe size is.
He looks like it appears to be a male based on my review of it, but knowing his approximate height, his approximate weight, and if his hair color truly is black, which it appears to be from the one show, but it could be brown. It's definitely something to cull.
I thought your comments about having the family members take a polygraph was a good idea, but maybe matching up the height of the people to see if they match up at least to the shoe size, which doesn't appear to be larger than size 12. Oh, it is a man. There's no doubt about it. Being a man, it's feminine, with feminine attributes, but statistically, This is a man, and it's a freaky white man.
Statistically, that's exactly what it is. Look at what he's doing. Dave Mack, what is he doing right there, trying to dislodge the door cam? He's looking for something, and we've seen him reaching down to get the door. some type of shrubbery, but Nancy, look, look at his hands, those gloves. It looks like he's wearing two pairs of gloves.
Those things are stretched and that hand is much thicker than it would be for a person of his size. And so I'm thinking that over glove, he's got another glove underneath, which kind of goes back to that backpack. Why in the world would anybody come to an event like this with a backpack so filled that, I mean, what else does he need?
You're talking about an 84-year-old woman who can't walk very far. Why would you need to have your backpack all filled with stuff? You're right. It does look like his clothes, his hands, his legs are stuffed. What about it, Newbecker? There's several things to notice here. The center of his pupils, he's centered up looking directly at the Nest Cam.
He's got what appears to be a bitolite in his mouth. You'll see when he's bending over, he turns on the flashlight to find the grass that he grabs. But notice the shadow underneath his chin. Also, as he puts his hand forth, notice the glove. You can see there's a bright light source coming from the front. towards the camera.
And as this progresses, you'll see when he's got the camera blocked, you can see that there's a light emitting from the camera. The fact that there's a shadow under his chin tells you that the camera's slightly higher than where his eyes are.
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Chapter 8: How are community tips contributing to the investigation?
That causes the shadow to cast. Does anyone detect a beard? I think he has chin hair, Nancy. In that one photograph, you can see that he appears right there. You see the dark, what appears to be a darker shade there underneath his lip line. That could be indicative of facial hair. And then, of course, the mustache potentially above that.
One other thing I think we're learning here is this gentleman is very, very comfortable doing what he's doing here. The Guthrie family has been notified about these images that have been shared with the FBI, we are told. But according to the family and law enforcement so far, no one recognizes who the person could be. Because there was no recognition, no one could identify this guy right here.
The FBI posted the images and the videos online. on a public post in the hope and the prayer, someone could recognize the perp or even the clothing, which absolutely could lead to a break in the case. Look carefully on the perp's left strap. An individual has spotted and now publicized a black star on the jacket. Take a look. Let's see it ISOed very quickly. A star-shaped pattern in black.
Look at this. It was shared widely on Twitter. What, if anything, does it mean? It could mean nothing or it could mean a break in the case. This post from Trill on X. Straight out to Dave Mack, Crime Stories investigative reporter. Dave, what can you tell me about the star? Because we have gone back and reviewed the original video released by Kash Patel, released by law enforcement.
And you can see that in the look. There it is. Now, when it's highlighted and put on X, you can see much better and you see red stitching, but you can see that. What do you know, Dave? Nancy, you know, this has just come up in the last hours and a lot of people are trying to search for that particular star and where it is located on other backpacks.
And Nancy, you know, we've even gone back and forth here about, well, do you see it? Do you not? It's a catch-22. I don't know what is actually on the strap versus the jacket in trying to locate it. You can't see anything there, but right there you can see it on his left strap, what appears to be a star. Guys, if you look at different angles, sometimes you can see it, sometimes you cannot see it.
Is it real? In any event, Eric Drickerson, this is a type of detail that has to be chased down by the feds, right? Every detail can matter. Yeah, and Nancy, it's a relevant detail because it serves two purposes, really. Number one, the uniqueness of that star could help determine where that article of clothing or that backpack came from. That's an important detail.
And the second point is it can help in asking for public assistance. This is somewhat unique. And it can help some witness or somebody who's willing to cooperate identify that clothing associated with a person. So either way, I think it's relevant, whether it's a star, whether it's something else, just the fact that it's somewhat unique to that article of clothing.
What about it, Brian Fitzgibbons? What, if anything, can you do with that? A detail like that can go a long way. Jump in. Absolutely, and it's gonna help investigators identify, was this a piece of clothing that was produced with that star on it? That's the brand's logo or whatever, or was this an aftermarket thing?
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