Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie, missing day 33. This as her son-in-law, who came under fire early on, not here, but by others attacking him, breaks cover, subjecting himself to the glare of the camera. And did the perp return to the scene? Is there a way to catch him on video?
If he did, many others have made that mistake. This, as we learn about a glove found nearby, allegedly ruled out because it belonged to a restaurant worker. Really? Has everybody in that restaurant been ruled out?
Chapter 2: What happened to Nancy Guthrie on Day 33 of her disappearance?
And why was that glove close to Nancy Guthrie's home? Tonight we learn Nanos says the end is near, but is it? Nanos under fire. Good evening.
Chapter 3: Why is Savannah Guthrie's husband under public scrutiny?
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. The children of Nancy Guthrie coming to the location where flowers have been laid out in her honor. Savannah on the left. You see Annie on the right. And I believe in the middle is Nancy Guthrie's son-in-law. This is a heartbreaking moment for this family. Savannah hugging her brother-in-law.
Together, united, hugging her brother-in-law. Okay, straight out to Dr. Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst joining us out of the LA jurisdiction. She is author of Deal Breaker. You can see her now on Peacock and find her at drbethanymarshall.com. Dr. Bethany Marshall. I may not be in Nanos' war room, but I can tell you this much.
Chapter 4: What clues have been found near the memorial for Nancy Guthrie?
I know Savannah from way back when we worked together at Court TV. And I can tell you this, Dr. Bethany Marshall. She would not wrap her arm around a guy that she suspected in her mother's kidnap. Until hell freezes over. What about it, Bethany? If she suspected him, Nancy, there would be massive division within the family. This brother-in-law would not even be living with the family.
He would be somewhere else. He would be with his own relatives. But it appears that he is united with Savannah and with Annie Guthrie. He has been living with his wife. And I think, Nancy, that he has been targeted because... He's a man. He may be one of the lower wage earners in the family. He has things that makes him vulnerable and a target to the public. But that family loves him.
He's the son-in-law. He's the brother-in-law. He's there. And I think it is tragic that the family has had yet another assault, which is an assault on their own family member. The son-in-law. Breaking cover after being attacked and maligned in the knees. Okay, Dave Mack joining us, Crime Stories investigative reporter. Tell me about what we're seeing right now.
What you're actually seeing is Savannah's first public appearance. She has only been seen on videos. since this story broke. This is her first public appearance and it is at the home of her mother. You notice that makeshift memorial was set up just off Nancy Guthrie's property because it was just done by neighbors and friends coming by and setting it up just off the property.
But Savannah and Tommaso and Annie And all of them cleared of any involvement in this case. But as you mentioned, you know, Tommaso has taken a lot of heat and him showing up. And when you see them all arm in arm, it really does give you that sense of unity that they have been projecting. Now, Cameron, Savannah's older brother, he's not present.
We don't know if he is in Arizona or if he's gone back home. We don't know that yet. But we have seen the cleared and then again, seeing this unity and placing a card at the memorial. Very, very emotional, Nancy. Very emotional. Oh, my stars. You know, Dr. Bethany, I could hardly stand to look at the flowers when my dad passed away. I could hardly stand it.
It reminded me so much of the flowers when my fiance was murdered. To this day, I cannot stand. to be around a carnation. It physically, to this day, makes me feel nauseous from Keith's funeral. But that said, that is heartbreaking right there. That is heartbreaking. Them walking up to that and knowing they're on camera to boot. at their mom's flower honorarium.
And I'm not saying memorial because I don't care what anybody says. I'm not giving up hope. There is still a hope we can bring her home alive. Yes, I'm no idiot. I know the odds, but I'm still believing. But what they're going through is hell without the brother being tried and executed, tarred and feathered in the press.
The tarred and feathered, Nancy, as I said earlier, it's yet another assault on the family. Nancy, they are out there. placing flowers at the memorial for one very specific reason besides their love for their mother. They want us to keep praying and hoping. They rely on the public, on the neighbors, on the news, on people like you to keep the story alive, to keep the investigation ongoing.
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Chapter 5: What insights does Dr. Bethany Marshall provide about family dynamics?
And we all know what that is after the Alex Murdoch trial and after this investigation. She's with the SANS Institute Systems Admin Audit Network and Security. She is one of, this is the part I like the best, one of the digital forensic experts that helped crack the Brian Koberger case. And
Remember, he went back and back and back to the scene of the crime, and we're going to talk about why people do that, and did this killer do it? For Pete's sake, Nanos, I hope you're recording people coming back to the scene. Also, co-author of Practical Mobile Forensics Now in its fourth edition. What does that mean?
That means it's in such demand that as each year passes, they update it to have the newest and the very best information in that. Okay, Heather, thank you for being with us. Let's talk about something I do understand as opposed to body language. What would the FBI and Nanos, if somebody explained to him what to do, do to rule out the son-in-law?
There has to be a fine-tooth comb going through every digital artifact that belongs to him. Your phone has all the truth. Who do you communicate with? What do you search for? Where are you? What is your alibi? In order for someone to be cleared, you have to understand the due diligence that went into play here. So it's awful that people are still pointing the fingers back.
It just keeps terrorizing the family. Okay, Heather, let me tell you what I read on X, aka Twitter, right before we came to air. All right. I read all of the ideas and some of them are really very good. One person is now blaming the daughter, Annie. They're taking the picture of Annie and they're using the whites of her eyes when she looks to the side.
You know, when you look to the side without moving your head, you can see more of the white of your eye. So they're taking that and they are then comparing the perp, who I now believe is a man, at first looked very feminine, They're comparing that shot of the porch guy to Annie and saying that it's really Annie based on the whites of the eyes of the perp.
I mean, stop, people, because I guarantee you the FBI has been three inches up all of these children's tailpipes from the get-go because typically that's who did it. Someone within the family, then you move out, out, out to friends, deliveries, granny nannies, churchgoers.
within her circle but isn't the first thing that law enforcement does heather is try to rule out the family absolutely that's what you always have to do and also i agree with you nancy that is not annie walking up onto that porch and also wouldn't she know that camera existed why would she have to go and grab some weeds from the garden and cover it it makes absolutely no sense
And you can see the mannerisms there, but family always has to be ruled out because that's the easiest way. The inside knows the most about Nancy. So ruling them out has to be done, but with due diligence. Heather, I want to understand exactly how you rule someone out. And guys, we've got so much to get to.
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Chapter 6: How does the public's involvement impact the investigation?
That video actually aired just a couple of weeks before the kidnapping, Nancy. Because if you remember it, Savannah had been off the. The show for weeks having surgery on her throat and was recovering from it. This was all part of the holidays and everything else coming back, showing Savannah out with her mother at their favorite Mexican restaurant.
You know, I'm also I'm thinking back, Dave, if you could refresh our recollection. Do you recall that odd Google search thing? that searched for Nancy Guthrie's home address and Savannah's salary. Do you remember that search? It was June of 2025. So the Google search was June of 2025. Okay, so that has really no bearing on the restaurant appearance.
You know, Dr. Bethany Marshall, I think I worded that incorrectly. I said, did Nancy Guthrie unwittingly make herself a target? That is somehow putting blame on the victim. What I meant to say, what I should have said is, did some perv, some evil, hateful, mean-spirited person see her on the Today Show and target her?
That's what I should have said because that appearance was coming from a place of love, not in any way the victim making themselves a target. If this was a result of a crazed fan who saw her in the restaurant or a server perhaps, who learned that, oh, this is Savannah Guthrie, then that would be more of a stalking scenario, Nancy.
And in a stalking scenario, these stalkers always write manifestos. You would see something on the internet, something in somebody's home, They would have become preoccupied and started talking to a family member about it. There are no missives that have come in. No missives that we see prior to a kidnapping that is motivated by somebody's fame. Right. So, yes, you're right.
She would not have made herself target. She's not making herself a victim. But I don't believe she's a target because of that anyway. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Joining us now, Brian Trasher, the vice president of the United Cajun Navy, now in Arizona offering to help in a search for Nancy Guthrie. And it's my understanding, Brian Trasher, that Nanos has not responded.
He needs all the help he can get. So I'm not sure what his delay is. But Brian, I want to ask you a pointed question. I noticed online that that the United Cajun Navy is being attacked for soliciting donations? Aren't these volunteers? They don't expect to be paid. So are you soliciting donations? And if so, why?
So no, we've not asked for any donations or posted any donation links the entire time we've been in Arizona. It's just internet trolls that we get every time we go anywhere. We've also publicly declined that we would take any reward if we qualified for any or directed to the Center for Missing and Exploited Persons or Children, I think is the name of the organization.
No, this isn't about donations. We already have very generous donors that have allowed us to be out in this assessment. so that we could submit this detailed 41-page tactical plan to assist in the search for Nancy Guthrie. What are you offering to Nanos and what's his problem? Is he out at another basketball game and hasn't been able to respond?
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Chapter 7: How do digital forensics play a role in missing person cases?
That is a shame and it could have been corrected. Yeah, you're right. And we work with law enforcement agencies and agencies like the Coast Guard all the time. And what they do is they give us specific grids, say, this is where we want you guys to search. And it's almost always separate and apart from where their own personnel are. So we're not interfering with their actual personnel.
They don't ever give us any kind of evidence or things that aren't released to the public. I mean, they have to keep the chain of custody of those things tight. We understand that. But that's the whole part, Nancy, of being a force multiplier is that you say, hey, this is how far my agency can go. This is where we want the Cajun Navy to start out here.
Just like in Texas, after the Hill Country floods, we were working downriver from the Coast Guard and the Texas Rangers just in case there was anything that got past them. That's how NGOs like us can work with official agencies very, very symbiotically and hopefully bring some good resolution to these families that are missing loved ones. And I'm not pro or anti the Cajun Navy.
I'm pro finding Nancy Guthrie. That's what I'm about. So very quickly, all of these people, and I don't even want to show their pictures, control room, don't do it. Do not do it. freaks that are showing up trying to do selfie shots outside of Nancy Guthrie's home. They're ghouls, like vampires. And some of them wearing booty shorts and just very scantily clad.
It's just so wrong on so many levels. But that said, I'm wondering what you think about this, Heather Barnhart and Brian Fitzgibbons, let's go to Heather first, if surveillance is still there or working in the area to catch all the people coming back to the scene. Because you know, unless they've already hightailed it, left, left the jurisdiction, they've gone to ground.
they may very well come back to the scene. I know it sounds crazy to us. It sounds crazy to me up here, but suspects do it all the time. And if surveillance video is working, two and two could equal four. And if you mix surveillance with cell tower pings, you have even more ammo to potentially find this person. This is the perp. He's got a bite light in his mouth.
Dr. Bethany, why do people return to the scene? Okay, that's the perp that people online are saying is Annie, which is insane, by the way. Oh, and hey, control room, while you're at it, I was reading early, early this morning, someone asking, did I point out the different jackets? The guy with the backpack, the guy without the backpack. And I think they were at different times.
At the very get-go, I was talking to Dave Mack, and I said, that one on the right, to me, looks like a different jacket. It almost looks like it's got a Minecraft, my son's Minecraft hoodie that he had forever when he was a kid. But someone wrote today that it was a camouflage jacket different from the one the perp is wearing the night of the kidnap. And they may very well be correct.
Dave May, do you remember our conversation about how the jackets looked different? I don't know if we were on air or off air. I remember you and I talked about it at length. And we didn't know at that time when the separate photos were taken. We didn't know if they were taken at the same time. And so we were very concerned about...
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Chapter 8: What are the challenges in ruling out suspects in a missing person investigation?
if the intent was financially motivated it would be to see is there can they case the house out even more is there something that they can take from the house now that the house is not guarded it could be motivated by paranoia just to see what's going on out there and as are people like circling in closer to them but i think most likely nancy whoever did this is very attached
to Nancy Guthrie is very connected to her, either sexually, financially, she's a target, and being near her house is somehow would be exciting to them. Brian Fitzgibbons, if the perp did return to the scene, how would we catch him? Yeah, just as Heather Barnhart said, they're definitely gonna be pulling cell phone information, number one.
Number two, it's very likely that there was additional cameras placed at the property by law enforcement to capture just that. And not to mention, there's been a consistent media presence out there and a consistent presence of law enforcement officials. So they're definitely running cars and plates of everybody who's driven by. You'd think, right, Brian Fitzgibbons? You'd think they are.
But are they? Nobody here is giving up. If you know or you think you know anything about the disappearance of this beloved grandma, Nancy Guthrie, please dial toll-free 1-800-225-5324. Repeat, 1-800-CALL-FBI. Or, if you wish to remain anonymous, 520-882-7463. Repeat. 520-882-7463. There is a 1.2 plus million dollar reward for information leading to the whereabouts of Nancy Guthrie.
It does not require an arrest or a conviction. 1.2 plus million dollar reward. Nancy Grace, signing off for tonight. Good night, friend.
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