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Dan Snow's History Hit

Churchill's Secret Army

20 Apr 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: What were Churchill's secret auxiliary units during WWII?

0.031 - 13.691 Dan Snow

Have you been enjoying my podcast and now want even more history? Sign up to History and watch the world's best history documentaries on subjects like how William conquered England, what it was like to live in the Georgian era, and you can even hear the voice of Richard III.

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14.272 - 40.197 Dan Snow

We've got hundreds of hours of original documentaries, plus new releases every week, and there's always something more to discover. Sign up to join us in historic locations around the world and explore the past. Just visit historyhit.com slash subscribe. Hi everybody, welcome to Dan Snow's History Hit.

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40.557 - 57.375 Dan Snow

Now if you're a long time listener to this podcast, and why wouldn't you be, you may remember that back in the summer of 2023, my producer Jana and I went in search of hidden World War II bunkers in the New Forest near where I live. Well these bunkers are so exciting, they were set up

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57.642 - 81.598 Dan Snow

in preparation for a German invasion so local British men would hide down those bunkers once that invasion had taken place they would lie in wait for the Germans they would then emerge at night and carry out acts of, well, ambush and sabotage and assassination to try and disrupt that German invasion.

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82.239 - 107.212 Dan Snow

They were called auxiliary units and the men who served in them were Britain's unassuming silent assassins. And in the vast majority of cases, they took the secret of that service to their grave. And that meant they also took the secret of the location of most of these bunkers to their graves. So now hundreds of those bunkers lie hidden along Britain's coastlines, particularly here in the south.

108.153 - 132.435 Dan Snow

It's difficult to say how many of them still exist. No maps are ever made marking the location. As I said, the auxiliaries were sworn to total secrecy. So it's only now, 80 years later, as people, well, literally stumble across, sometimes fall into these bunkers as they cave in, that we can build a better picture of Britain's deadly defensive network.

133.023 - 153.36 Dan Snow

A year and a half ago, we were scouring the New Forest. We got that tantalising tip-off that a local man said he'd come across one of these bunkers as a child when he was playing with his friends in the forest. But we made only a very minor discovery. So listen, I accept that single wire may not have been the most exciting thing in the world. Well, friends...

153.34 - 173.905 Dan Snow

There's been a development in the story. Since that podcast came out, we have received another tip-off. News of another bunker that's been discovered way down in the southwest. So that's where I've come now. I'm just walking along that coast. You can hear the waves crashing, the pebbles beneath my feet. I can't tell exactly where I am, sadly, because I'm going to keep this location a secret.

173.925 - 202.568 Dan Snow

But the History Hit team has assembled, and we're on the way there now. and what makes this mission so particularly special is that we're going to be joined by most probably the last surviving member of any auxiliary unit ken welch and by extraordinary coincidence ken served in this bunker as a teenager with his dad he too was sworn to absolute secrecy

Chapter 2: How did the auxiliary units prepare for a German invasion?

525.043 - 534.086 Dan Snow

Gosh, there's a plan, which is fight them here on the beaches, but then if they do get inland, to sort of funnel them, channel them into places where you can ambush them, kill them, use the high ground.

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534.488 - 544.885 Andy Chatterton

Exactly right, exactly right. And I inside at the time got a... Large amount of criticism, and continues today. But actually, I think he was utilising the resources he had at that point really well, really well.

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545.225 - 554.678 Andy Chatterton

And it's almost like an Iron Age hill fort, where the defensive channel the attackers in the direction where you want them to go, and therefore you know where they're going up, and therefore you can attack them in the place you're happy to.

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554.758 - 564.992 Dan Snow

And a bit like the trench warfare, that generation of officers would have known so well. You use the barbed wire, you leave sort of gaps here and there, and then they're very well covered with artillery and mortars and machine guns. So it's like you create killing zones.

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564.972 - 574.363 Andy Chatterton

Exactly right, exactly right. So as you say, the whole of the south is covered in these concrete boxes, which, as I said, look pretty rubbish, but actually would have been a really effective way of stopping them.

575.184 - 580.531 Dan Snow

Andy, that's what's going on here in Britain. What's going on just over there on the other side of the channel? What preparations is Hitler making?

580.551 - 598.574 Andy Chatterton

It's an interesting question because the fall of France has happened. Germany is uproariously happy. It's gone far better than they could ever, ever have expected. And then suddenly they have this challenge of the channel, of the moats that we've got. And Hitler's plan isn't just one plan, and this is the trouble.

599.074 - 618.705 Andy Chatterton

He asked the Navy, the Air Force and the Army to come up with their own separate plans. Each one is slightly contradictory to the other. Goering's ultimately confident that he can destroy the Royal Air Force to give the mayor superiority. He doesn't think that's going to be a problem. He's kind of seen the Battle of France and, to an extent, the RAF.

618.685 - 629.803 Andy Chatterton

did struggle and the effectiveness of the Stuka, the dive bomber plane. I mean, Goering's a confident guy anyway, right? But now, after France, he is super confident. He didn't think the RAF stands a chance.

Chapter 3: What was the significance of the bunker hunt in this episode?

743.909 - 745.091 Andy Chatterton

Yes, exactly right.

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745.111 - 745.491 Dan Snow

It's bonkers.

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745.511 - 746.752 Andy Chatterton

It's absolutely bonkers.

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746.773 - 750.216 Dan Snow

Ironically, it'd be all right in a day like this. It would be. Not many of these days on the Channel.

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750.356 - 751.798 Andy Chatterton

No, they're not. They're not.

752.032 - 765.937 Dan Snow

So that's why the Battle of Britain matters, because if you're going to take all these canal boats, these barges across the channel in the teeth of opposition by the Royal Navy, you need to have total control of the air so your planes can help your fragile naval forces to beat off the British.

766.037 - 770.766 Andy Chatterton

Exactly right. If you're already at a disadvantage, you don't need your enemy to have superiority in the air as well.

772.096 - 776.482 Dan Snow

And so winning superiority in the air is a necessary precondition for any of this invasion stuff.

776.963 - 793.767 Andy Chatterton

It absolutely is, because we saw in Dunkirk actually hitting boats from the air is quite difficult. But if you're trundling along in a barge and you see a British plane overhead, you know you're pretty much done for. So, yeah, absolutely, air superiority is a must. But Goering's supremely confident that's going to happen.

Chapter 4: What were the living conditions like in the auxiliary bunkers?

1095.798 - 1117.147 Dan Snow

And as part of our mission to find a bunker that, well, still resembles a bunker, we're taking Ken. We're going to try and find the one he was stationed at with his father 80 years ago. One that he hasn't been back to since. Hello! Hello! Now, you can't be Ken. I'm Ken. You don't look old enough.

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1117.848 - 1118.108 Ken Welch

No, I'm not.

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1118.308 - 1119.109 Dan Snow

What are you talking about?

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1119.209 - 1120.411 Ken Welch

I'm only 24. Oh, exactly.

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1120.431 - 1125.357 Dan Snow

You look 25. Nice to meet you. I'm Dan. Same to you. Come in. Let me take my shoes off.

1125.377 - 1126.819 Ken Welch

Oh, you don't have to do that.

1126.999 - 1129.723 Dan Snow

Well, we've... Wave them. Are you sure? OK, yeah, we've... All right.

1130.304 - 1149.552 Ken Welch

These didn't even offer... Ken, you were a young boy. Do you remember the war starting? Yes, I do. I was sitting on a chair in my grandmother's kitchen. I think it was a Sunday morning and 11 o'clock and I heard the Chamberlain declare war with Germany.

1150.113 - 1155.28 Dan Snow

And talk to me about your dad, because he did a job that you probably didn't know about initially.

Chapter 5: How did Britain's resistance network operate during the war?

1301.395 - 1302.536 Ken Welch

We had a bit of fun up there.

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1302.956 - 1304.758 Dan Snow

Was it fun being alongside your dad?

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1305.143 - 1310.53 Ken Welch

Yes, we got on very well, father and I. And what about the secrecy?

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1310.71 - 1315.096 Dan Snow

Did you have to discuss killing people if they found out where the base was and things like that?

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1315.116 - 1342.869 Ken Welch

We had to sign a secret document, you know, to swear the secrecy. There was a cottage, a couple of people lived in the cottage that could see, not the entrance, but the gateway to where our OB was. And of course, they would see us going in and out every Saturday or Sunday, And of course, if we were invaded, then the Germans would get hold of them and torture them to find out what they knew.

1342.909 - 1359.653 Ken Welch

So if we were invaded, somebody would have had to have gone and said goodbye to those. They would have had to have been shot, I'm afraid. Terrible situation. I don't know who would have done it. They might have drawn straws to find the one that would go and do it.

1359.768 - 1365.715 Dan Snow

So those are the kind of conversations you were having, planning for the invasion, right down to killing this old couple?

1366.336 - 1390.835 Ken Welch

Yes. Well, yes, that's right. And if anything happened, if we were invaded and anything happened to me, if I were injured in any way, then I would have had to have been shot because they would have tortured me, questioned me if I was captured, you see. So that was the situation. It was a scary situation. I never realised how scary it was.

1390.855 - 1392.317 Dan Snow

I bet it was more scary for your dad.

Chapter 6: What was Section 7 and its role in post-occupation resistance?

1636.684 - 1641.131 Andy Chatterton

So... tend to be five to six miles inland, near key targets, incredibly well disguised.

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1641.431 - 1646.578 Dan Snow

So have you developed a bit of a nose for it? Do you just walk across a landscape and think, oh, I reckon there should be one around here?

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1646.598 - 1661.479 Andy Chatterton

You do get a weird feel for it, because you kind of see, well, actually, that's a good escape route down there. There's a river down there. There's a good target there. You do get a feel for it. And what we do have is that in about 1943, a list of all of those who are currently serving in the auxiliary units in 1943

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1661.459 - 1684.783 Andy Chatterton

were put together with their addresses so as researchers all we have to play with is well actually these guys all seem to live near each other that's probably one patrol then you look at well actually there's a good target there oh and there's a forest there that's likely where the ob is you know if it's intact you could be walking around that forest for weeks without finding it but yeah it's a it'd be too easy you and i've got previous there buddy tearing around the new forest

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1687.835 - 1712.725 Dan Snow

We arrive on top of a tree-covered bank overlooking Old Quarry. Among the scrub is a square manhole like one that you'd find in the street. But going down through the rock, Once you look inside, you see a vertical tunnel with a rudimentary ladder fixed into the wall, just as Ken said. Ken, how are you feeling?

1713.185 - 1722.895 Ken Welch

Well, not too bad, not too bad at all. Whoever discovered this place again must have had some hell of a job getting into it.

1723.676 - 1743.301 Dan Snow

It goes down into an open chamber cut into the granite. It's not exactly an easy way in for an older gentleman, but luckily a better route has been found by the local historians Chris Hale and Gareth Wynne, who recently rediscovered this bunker and have joined us on this expedition. Ken, do you want an arm up this slope? Do you want an arm?

1743.602 - 1745.044 Ken Welch

I can hang on to this.

1745.064 - 1753.515 Dan Snow

Okay, let's do it. All right, let's come on up. We go round the bank and are faced with a muddy incline that goes up to a small hole in the side of the rock face.

Chapter 7: What stories have emerged from the last surviving members of auxiliary units?

1841.033 - 1845.501 Ken Welch

Yeah, we had a cup of tea. I was much able to stand up easier than I can now.

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1847.59 - 1869.824 Andy Chatterton

So from here, you would have been abased here for a fortnight and you would be going out every night. I can't believe there would be seven to eight men cramped in here. Seven. Seven men cramped in here. It's not a lot of space, is it? So, Ken, so you would come in and in here in 43, 44, what would we have seen in this structure? Would we have seen bunks either side?

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1870.124 - 1881.048 Ken Welch

Yeah, of course we would have seen some bunks on each side. I think there was three bunks, I think. all the way down, down to the bottom. Never had much room in the middle, as far as I can remember.

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1881.108 - 1881.428 Andy Chatterton

No.

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1882.49 - 1892.987 Ken Welch

Like I say, we used to have a cup of tea, but we used to make them on the steps, I think. Right. And a primer stove, you know, in those days. Yeah. Never had the modern ones like today. No.

1893.568 - 1898.119 Andy Chatterton

And what was the lighting? What did you use for lighting? Candles. Candles, just candles.

1898.659 - 1914.359 Ken Welch

And would you leave weapons in here? Weapons? We took our weapons home. Oh, you took them home. Yeah. The explosives and stuff were stored here. You kept all the explosives here? Yeah, I think it was down there at the entrance, just as you come in, in there in that space.

1914.379 - 1914.879 Dan Snow

Oh, there, yeah?

1914.98 - 1915.34 Ken Welch

I think.

Chapter 8: How can we uncover more about Britain's hidden wartime history?

2023.084 - 2043.001 Ken Welch

Wherever he went, he took me with him, like, you know. If he went out on exercise, crawling around the fields, I'd be with him. And you must have been proud to be with your dad. Oh, I was quite happy, yes. Enjoyed it. Really enjoyed it in those days. My goodness me. Thank you for bringing me here. 1944. 80 years.

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2043.762 - 2067.845 Dan Snow

There's something extraordinary about bringing someone back to a place like this. You can see it in their face. The moment the memories come back. 80 years is a lifetime. And yet the bunker is still here. Almost untouched, really. For us, it's amazing to step inside a proper auxiliary bunker, the kind we'd have been so desperate to find on our last venture into this story.

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2068.326 - 2086.494 Dan Snow

It really brought to life what it would have been like to be cramped inside, waiting for the sounds of the enemy overhead. But the auxiliary units were only one piece of a much bigger web of resistance, all ready to spring into action in the face of an invasion.

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2087.316 - 2100.297 Dan Snow

Through his groundbreaking research, Andy has recently discovered that there was yet another secret resistance faction, one ready to go even further had Britain been conquered by the Germans.

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2100.277 - 2117.296 Andy Chatterton

So we researched the auxiliary units, which we know were very much on the coastal counties, on the vulnerable counties to invasion. But for years and years, we were getting information from all parts of the country saying, oh, my granddad or my grandmother was definitely in New York's units. They were trained in unarmed combat. They were trained in explosives.

2117.316 - 2136.435 Andy Chatterton

They had hideouts where they were to come out and blow up German infrastructure. But this was coming from Leicestershire and Nottingham and Liverpool and... all over the country where we know absolutely there were no oxygen units, which was confusing to say the least. And then in 2010, the official history of MI6 came out by a chap called Keith Jeffery.

2136.495 - 2161.161 Andy Chatterton

And in that book, there are about three paragraphs unreferenced about Section 7. Now, Section 7 is a MI6, a SIS group that was there purely as a post-occupation resistance. So after Britain had been defeated militarily, this group would have become active. And it's MI6, i.e. the Foreign Secret Service, rather than MI5, because of what they were doing in mainland Europe.

2161.181 - 2182.717 Andy Chatterton

They were taking what they'd learned in mainland Europe and implementing it in the UK. And it was so secret, this group, that MI6 didn't tell MI5. They weren't very keen on the military knowing. And so all the members that they recruited all signed official secrets acts. And as we'll go into, we know less than 20. But has the potential... Because this isn't just the coastal counties.

2182.757 - 2195.02 Andy Chatterton

It is the coastal counties plus all of England, certainly Wales. That's a huge amount of people potentially involved, possibly tens of thousands of people who signed the Official Secrets Act and almost all of them went to the grave without telling anyone anything.

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