DSPN - Devlin Sports Podcast Network
Graham Henry is BACK! | Breaking Down the All Blacks Presser
12 May 2026
Chapter 1: What prompted Graham Henry's return to the All Blacks?
I don't think it's too out of the question to say, hey mate, you've got to actually prove that you can get back into this team after where you've been.
I thought that's more sort of pointed towards Ruben Love, because the other two guys have played test rugby at that level and have played many, many tests.
Whether he ends up there or not remains to be seen, given that he's now in the Fords. Whether he plays in the Fords and ends up out there, does he go to the wing? We're going to find out at some point.
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DSPN, Martin Devlin, Jamie Wall. This morning at NZR HQ in Auckland, Dave Rennie joined us. In fact, the whole of the All Black Management Group were there and those of us who work on this side of the microphone invited along to sit down with the coach and then we had a stand-up media conference. Now the Full stand-up media conference is on DSPN YouTube channel.
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It does cost you a couple of bucks a week, and we thank you so much for supporting us tonight. All right, we're going to break this press conference down. We've got about six or seven different things to talk about. Graham Henry is back in the All Blacks. He's going to be a selector. The Richie Mwanga conundrum. Dave Rooney does actually reveal that he's been thinking about this.
And in actual fact, even planning for Mwanga to be in the All Blacks. We're OK for number 10s, he says. We've got good depth. He does make that point. However, there are injury concerns. 34 initially going to be named in the All Blacks. He said we're light on a couple of positions.
We'll talk about Leicester, Whanganuku, because specifically he was asked about Leicester, also about Brodie Retallick ruling a line through that name, Scott Barrett when he is coming back, and then the captain. So let us start first with Graham Henry, and he will be selecting the All Blacks now alongside Dave Rennie and Neil Barnes.
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Chapter 2: What is the conundrum surrounding Richie Mo’unga's eligibility?
I think he's going to make it.
But is he going to make it this year? Well, yeah. Even though New Zealand Rugby have said that he's not eligible.
Well, I mean, he will be because as soon as he plays a few games for Canterbury in the MPC, he may end up playing that whole campaign. This is entirely up to Dave Rennie picking the best player he thinks for this tour. And currently, Richie Mwanga isn't going to be at the start of this because they're going to follow NZ Rugby's rules on this.
And that he does still, though, it pushes back that start date for when he needs to earn the right to wear that all black jersey again, just back further a bit. So yeah, maybe it's going to be a little bit longer than we thought.
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Past performance is not an indicator of future performance. Product disclosure statement available at generalfinance.co.nz. I just added to this, people. He does believe that at the moment, and I'll quote Dave Rooney himself, we're okay for tens. Have a listen to this.
I think we're blessed in that position. So, yeah, and I'm really excited, you know, watching over the next few weeks as the intensity grows around, you know, how certain guys are performing. But, yeah, it's definitely a position of strength.
I thought also interesting in that little clip there, he talks about good depth. OK, so, you know, and we all know the three names we're talking about, Barrett, McKenzie, Ruben, Love. And he said he's interested in the performances over the next few weeks as well, which, again, we've all been talking about.
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Chapter 3: What are the injury concerns affecting the All Blacks squad?
This is about whether the new guy can come in and really assert himself and control matches as the Hurricanes end the season and going into the playoffs.
Yeah, and it's exciting, isn't it? Because we've got a situation now where it has been, for a long time, the All Black First Five conversation has been about two people competing for it. First it was Barrett Mawanga, then it was, lately it's been Barrett McKenzie. Now we've got like four guys to talk about now. So it's exciting. It's a good position for Dave Rennie to be in.
There's a question mark over just exactly when Richie Moyer can play. But now with Ruben Love coming in, putting pressure on these guys, it really does open up a really interesting selection debate. And you're right, it is going to come down to the way Ruben Love finishes out the season.
And if the Hurricanes do go on and win the Super Rugby title, and he's at the forefront of it, it's pretty hard to see it not being that way. That's a really compelling case, especially considering they have those three tests against France, Italy, and Ireland, which you could conceivably see Ruben Love starting in if things go his way.
He says we're okay for tens. Are all four of these guys capable of being part of the 44 players? He did mention that they're going to South Africa because I suppose McKenzie, then you can select it. You normally wouldn't take four first fives, but McKenzie, obviously you can select in other positions.
Well, I mean, you can select Bowdoin Barrett in another position as well, and Ruben Love as well. So all three of those guys can play fullback as well. I know it's been a while since Bowdoin has, and he's made it clear that he wants to be a 10, but that positional ability still exists, especially if he gets used in midweek games. But I think that... I'll just go back.
All of a sudden, it's four guys. This is what we talked about the spring box, the sort of depth the spring box have had. It's actually what Scott Robertson, it was what his core belief was four deep in every position. And they've managed to actually manufacture that sort of by design and a little bit by accident. They've managed to do that in arguably the most important position on the field.
So... As far as Mawanga goes, he's not eligible, but he is in the coach's mind. He's in the plan. Yeah, clearly he's in the plan. We talked to Steve Lancaster as well before the press conference, and he was adamant that New Zealand rugby are not going to open the doors and let every single player go overseas. That's not going to happen. And he was absolutely adamant. assertive about that.
There's no question about that. But with this particular player, with Richie Mawanga, the fact that Dave Rennie is talking about that says, yeah, he's obviously in the plan. In a second, more specific players, Lester Whanuku, Brodie Retallick, Scott Barrett. 34 players are going to be selected, as he says here, for the initial squad and Dave Rennie is confident that we're strong.
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Chapter 4: How does the All Blacks management plan to approach the midfield puzzle?
I was always talking about maybe a World Cup. The biggest travel Brady does nowadays is on the Shinkansen to Tokyo, so we're away one night. He wasn't excited about six weeks in Africa, and I think Eden Razor had that conversation with him 12 months ago.
And look, again, no surprise. The surprise to us today was to learn that Scott Robertson had already made this call to Brodie Retallick to ask him as well. So, you know, the last couple of years, you've got two different All Black coaches who have put the question to him. 150 days in hotels, Dave Rennie said, that team is looking ahead to, which is kind of what the cricketers do every year.
And so for a guy that's played 100 tests and 100 matches for the Chiefs, and I know that a lot of us probably think, oh, living in a hotel, how glamorous is all of that? When you've got a young family and things and you're on tour, you know, these are the kind of things that after you've done it for 12 years, the novelty wears off really quickly.
And he made that joke a couple of times about the furthest he travels is on the train to Tokyo. But that's who he is, Brodie Retallick. And so the idea that he is playing this year is out of the question. It's gone. The World Cup is still an option. That's not, you know, that hasn't been ruled out yet. And that's another year and a bit away. And also that's just over the ditch.
I know it's probably eight weeks worth of rugby or something like that, but that's a hell of a lot different than the 150 days. So if you were thinking about Brady Retallick, no matter how well he's playing, top try scorer in Japan and everything, not in the All Blacks this year. Done. Over. So end of conversation. Let's go to Scott Barrett then.
Any concerns that Scott Barrett hasn't returned to rugby yet?
Also about concern being the right word. He's had issues with the body over the last couple of years. So that's been really good this time out. He's unfortunately picked up a little bit of an injury which is going to delay his return. So hopefully the Crusaders go well and make the playoffs and he gets back in time to where the Crusaders used him.
There has to be a place in the All Blacks for this guy. I think a lot of people misinterpret what he brings to the team. And when you talk to the players themselves and when you talk to the coaching staff, they have such a fundamental belief in his ability. And if he's fit, it's almost like I think he's almost like a certain starter if he's fit.
Yeah, yeah, I'd agree. I'd agree with that. And that is in a position where there are, we talked about depth issues. There's certainly none at lock, considering that we've still got Fabian Holland to come back from injury as well. It is interesting because I kind of thought Scott Barrett would be back by now for the Crusaders as they head towards...
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Chapter 5: What insights were shared about Brodie Retallick's absence?
Which I don't know why I've got in my head. Maybe I've just made this up. About 10 players. I think that was what was mentioned. Was it something like about 10 players? And he kind of alluded to as well or hinted at that there might be changes in that group as well. So just because you've been in that group in the past, you may not necessarily get that position back in the leadership group.
Or there will be those players who have been in that leadership group who may not make the All Blacks at all.
Yeah, and that's the interesting one for me, is that, like, yeah, we're going to have this debate about the captain. You've got to remember, though, that the Olympics are playing all up, what is it, 17 times this year, which is the most in a long, long time.
And you're probably going to have a different captain for the midweek side against the URC teams as well.
You've got to remember that, you know, the changing of captain between tests, between games, is not uncommon. I mean, you know, Ardy, captain of the All Blacks, he started as captain in three tests last year, finished as captain in a couple more as well. I think it was 2021, the All Blacks used six captains across all those tests. You know, people getting injured, they've got these midweek games.
Like, it's a very fluid situation. You know, they are going to name like a figurehead nominal captain, But I think the leadership group one, which we're never really going to know about because it's something that's kept in the inner sanctum of the All Blacks, and especially who they are. We could probably guess who they are, but exactly how they function, that to me is the intriguing thing.
Because as you say... He says there's going to be changes there. And does he mean that players who were in it last year aren't actually going to be playing for the All Blacks at all this year? But imagine if you were someone who was involved in that last year and you find yourself not and just you're back to being part of the squad.
That's a really interesting proposition, how that's going to affect the dynamic, the chemistry. Maybe some guys will like it. Maybe they don't want that responsibility anymore. Maybe they've had a go and they're like, okay, we'll pass it on to someone else. So, yeah, I'm really intrigued about that and sort of intrigued to see what we can find out around all of that as the season progresses.
Also, remember, we're going to be on the ground in South Africa. Jamie's going to be there the whole time. And so I'll be joining him for those test matches as well. So, you know, if you want anything about the All Blacks, we're going to be as close to them as anyone else because you're going to be there. You're going to be there at trainings. You're going to be wandering in and out of the hotel.
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Chapter 6: How is the depth of the All Blacks' first five positions being evaluated?
And if you look at the last six months and the drama that's happened that culminated in the coaching regime changing, I think the All Blacks right now have a big job on their hands to present a united front to the New Zealand public. And to be like every single thing they do, it's like we're all on the same page.
And whether it's down to coaching, it's down to leadership group, selections, positioning, there's everything about it. We're all on board. And we're heading out in the most best prepared way we possibly can to tackle the biggest challenge that this team's faced in a long, long time.
There it is, press conference, you can watch again, the whole thing, and that's just us sitting there breaking it down for you. It was a great morning, actually, where, you know, this is the privilege of the job, people, that we get to sit down and have quite a bit of time with a whole lot of other people around as well, but we had a kind of a closed-door thing where you could talk to the coach,
And the promise from everyone that was there that the things that we were told and heard there that we don't bring out in public. And that's just a kind of a trust issue with us on this side of the microphone as well, that they want to kind of know. You've been around for a while.
Did you ever think you'd be back in the day when it was all very closed door? How did it feel for you?
I think that with... With Graham Henry, when he was the coach, it's just the kind of person he is as well. He's more like, I'm going to tell you how it all works. Steve Hansen was a bit more inclusive. I found Ian Foster really inclusive. And some people didn't, but that's how I kind of found working with him.
And I think Dave Rennie is approaching this and the media side of it by being really open, by being an open book at the moment and sort of establishing a good relationship. Because what they want, the All Blacks, Jamie's exactly right.
What they want is they want their messaging to be out there, to be consistent, and to inspire the public that, hey, look, we know we're on... It feels like we're on the back foot at the moment. It feels like we had a fractured environment. It feels like we had a dysfunctional environment. But that's all over now, and we've got to forget about that and move forward this way.
Because the only way that we're going to attack this season and to be able to go to South Africa and actually have a crack at those guys and winning over there is simply by being a completely united team in every aspect. So I think that... It doesn't surprise me that that's the messaging out there. But I also think that when you meet Dave Rennie people, he's a really genuine guy.
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