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Escaping the Drift with John Gafford

The Truth About Building a Freedom Business - Ryan Lee

17 Mar 2026

Transcription

Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.

Chapter 1: What does it mean to build a freedom business?

4.469 - 21.094

And now, Escaping the Drift, the show designed to get you from where you are to where you want to be. I'm John Gafford, and I have a knack for getting extraordinary achievers to drop their secrets to help you on a path to greatness. So stop drifting along, escape the drift, and it's time to start right now.

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Back again, back again, and time for another episode of the podcast of Like It Says, the opening man gets you from where you are to where you want to be.

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And today, if where you want to be is actually retired, living with some money instead of broke, living off the government, well, you might want to take a listen because my guy today in studio, live from Utah, he flew down just for this, is an expert at teaching you how to retire fast. with wealth, not just a social security check, not getting by, but actually how to have wealth.

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And he has a pretty interesting system for how to do it. He is the host of the Passive Income Machine podcast, and he is now the author of the book, Retire in 10 Years or Less, is who wants working. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the program. This is Ryan Lee. Ryan. Let's go. Let's go, John. What's up, man? How are you? Man, it's a pleasure to be here. Man, studio is looking phenomenal.

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Thank you, brother. I love it. This is such an honor to be here. Thank you, brother. I appreciate that. So give us a little bit of a little color on Ryan. You know what? I probably grew up a lot like most traditional people. I had a great family, good upbringing, phenomenal parents. But man, when I got into the space of earning money, I got stuck. I got stuck.

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And this is really what prompted me to write this book after several years. But really, you know, for me, I started climbing the corporate ladder.

Chapter 2: How did Ryan Lee transition from corporate life to entrepreneurship?

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making little teeny trade-offs in my life where I would make more money. And I kept thinking that the 401k was gonna be my pathway out. Because I mean, who wants to work for the rest of their life, right? And I found myself stuck in the corporate rat race. And in 2008, right, in 2008, I realized I had no control over my money. I had no control over what was happening with it. I couldn't stop it.

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And I realized if I ever wanted to retire, let alone retire in 10 years, like the book is talking about, I had to figure out a different way. I had to become a little bit more empowered with money. And so that's been my journey post-college is learning about the game of money. And man, it is quite the game. So when you say 08, you realize, obviously the financial crisis hit in 2006, 2007.

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I'm assuming you were banking on your 401k, watching the value of it grow. And then it took a little bit of a beating when all the markets got hammered. And What was that like, that realization when you saw that number? Well, it was kind of crazy. I was only about five years out of college, right? And I remember when I got my first job, I had to move to Tucson, Arizona, right?

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And so I moved my new wife to Tucson, Arizona. I had my new boss, Rob. I did not like reporting to Rob. I did not necessarily love the job that I had. And I remember when I got that first paycheck, you know, this is, you know, I went to college for the sake of getting the degree, getting the piece of paper, not because I wanted to be that.

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I thought that's what a professional, responsible young man would do. And when I got that first paycheck with my college degree, I remember I took it to the Bank of America and I opened it as kind of like a symbol of success. And I opened that thing.

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And after I opened it and looked at it, and I kind of flipped it over a couple of times to make sure there wasn't a mistake on it, man, there was not much money there after taxes and insurance and everything. And I thought to myself, man, there's got to be a better way.

Chapter 3: What mindset shifts are necessary for entrepreneurial success?

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So I thought, look, if I can work hard, because I grew up in a hardworking family, I'm not afraid of working hard. If I can work hard and start saving a bunch of my money and let the stock market, because that's all I knew, to grow my wealth, maybe I'll retire early. And back when I first started, that was my goal is to retire in my 50s.

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And so fast forward five years out of college, my net worth had grown to about $100,000, 401k, brokerage account, all that kind of stuff. Were you on that plan of 20% paying yourself first and investing? Man, I was up to 30%. Every single penny I could find, like I'm putting it in this account. And yeah, I'm watching the market grow. But man, the crazy part about it was in 2008,

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Yeah, I lost a bunch of money. My 401k went, you know, 401k brokerage account, all that stuff. It went down to about $28,000. And at first I thought I did something. A little over a hundred thousand, right? A hundred, 105,000 at the peak of my net worth. Well, that's, I mean, dude, it's important because that's, you know, that's a lot of money for somebody that has it.

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It was crazy because I just traded five years of my life and every single little trade-off I was making to make more so I could save more. It came with strings attached. And I only saw it in hindsight that I was trading my life away to earn more money. But the biggest thing in 2008 for me was it was a window into my future, right?

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I looked at all the people I was working with, modeling my life after. And these were people that were 20, 30 years ahead of me. And their entire dream, their entire vision of retirement was melting before their eyes and before my eyes. And for the first time I realized that's me. Like if I don't control the outcome, how can I ever predict retiring early? How can I ever impact it?

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I'm just along for a ride. And this is what set me off on the path of questioning the traditional model. And once your paradigm changes, once your perspective changes, the world that you see changes. And my gateway into this whole world was Rich Dad, Poor Dad, right? I mean, I remember I read that book and I'm like, oh my gosh, everything I thought I knew about money.

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And Robert's on the back of your book, I see. Yeah, it might be wrong. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. So that was your first forays, that book. Yeah, that was the first. That was the opening to the door that there is a whole different world of money that if I was willing to step into it and learn it, it's governed based on financial intelligence, not dependency.

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If I was willing to raise my financial IQ, I could maybe take back control over my money and really learn how to invest, not just speculate.

Chapter 4: What strategies can help in scaling a business effectively?

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Okay, so let's talk about this because this is the step where I think most people get stuck, right? Is most people, and one of my favorite sayings is education without action is entertainment. And there's far more entertaining stuff in the world out there than Rich Dad, Poor Dad, right? I mean, it's a good book, but it's not exactly entertaining.

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And what I would say is, so what was the first action you took after getting this new stuff where you're like, okay, I'm going to make a pivot? Do you remember what the first action you took? What was it? Yeah, so first off, I almost cried, right? I mean, I'm like, what the heck, man? Everything is wrong.

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But the great thing about Kiyosaki was, you know, it opened me up to a new idea, but I really honestly had no idea what to do with it. So I started searching. I started looking. And this is the second book I came across. And I came across this book. It's written by Robert Allen. He's the co-author of this book. The title of his book was called Creating Wealth, but that wasn't what caught my eye.

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Down below the title of his book, he said, Retire in 10 Years Following Allen's Seven Principles. And I thought to myself, I can do anything for 10 years. What are the seven principles? And I'll never forget when I opened up his book, it was kind of like a playbook for what I read in Rich Dad, Poor Dad. And his model, I mean, it was so believable that I thought I could actually do it.

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That if you bought two single family homes every single year for 10 years in year 11, after 20 single family homes, you'd have enough wealth to be financially free. So that was my first action. I bought three single family homes in my first year of investing outside of Wall Street. And that was how I got into the game. What year was this? This was 2009. Okay, so you're buying houses.

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Where were you buying them? I bought my first one in Utah, but then I bought my next two in Arizona. Okay, so you're buying Arizona, you're buying Utah. So you're probably paying $100,000. $50,000 a door, $160,000 a door? Last, man, man. You guys here in Arizona, you guys got hits. It was lucky timing for me. I get it. I've since now bought many, many more single-family homes.

Chapter 5: How does Ryan Lee define financial freedom?

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But, yeah, I bought houses for about $110,000, $120,000. Yeah, I can tell you one of the biggest, you know, I don't know, man. I go back and forth with this. So I always, I'm filled with regret on this one thing. I don't have a lot of regret. But in 2008... In 2009, I was the number one foreclosure real estate agent in the country. You should have scooped them all up for yourself.

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Well, that's the point. In the country for lender processing services, which LPS was the biggest processor of foreclosures in the country. They're the ones that got in the robo-signing scandal. Yes, I remember that. I was their number one agent in the country. I would come into work wearing board shorts and flip-flops and turn on my computer and have 30 new listings every day. It was wild.

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And I had a buddy who will remain nameless, who was also in the same business, who was living in an apartment, like hand to mouth. And he just bought everything he could buy in LLCs and everything else. And it wasn't exactly scrupulous to do that. I mean, he was putting it on the open market, but he was the ultimate buyer.

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So he wasn't doing anything underhanded, I guess, necessarily to the banks, but we were not supposed to buy our own property. Got it. I bought one, and I totally told the bank, and I disclosed it to them, and put it on the open market, and somebody actually bid me up, and it was a thing. I bought one to live in. But he bought all of them.

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And, like, you look back now, here we are 20 years later, he built an amazing, a massive amount of wallets. He was buying doors for, like, $30,000. Oh, yeah, you were buying them, like, 30%, 40% on a rebuild cost. Yeah, it was insane. I mean, literally, my mother-in-law, you know, I did buy a few of them for, like, for people that I knew, because this is a good deal, you need to do this.

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And my mother-in-law at the time, well, she's still my mother-in-law, but at the time, all of her money was like under the mattress, right? Not a sophisticated woman, cash just saved her money and not literally under the mattress, but just in a bank account. And we took her money and bought a couple of these houses. And now here we are 20 years later, she's in the best memory care facility in

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it's in the parking lot at $8,000 a month being paid for because of those decisions. Because of that, man, 100%. You know, that's the number one regret I hear from people I serve and work with. You know, we've done 5,000 transactions, single family homes since I started doing this over the last decade now. And the number one regret is I wish I would have bought more win back in the day, right?

Chapter 6: What lessons were learned during the 2008 financial crisis?

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Best time to plant a tree 30 years ago. Second best time right now. Yeah, right now. Get going. So you started buying houses. Go back to your story. So you were doing about three the first year and then I'm assuming it didn't take you that long to get to 20. Well, it didn't take me that long to get to 20, but I'll tell you what, after three, I almost fell apart, right?

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First property, honestly, now I'm still working corporate gig, right? I'm selling medical supply. That was my whole game back in the day. It's not a bad gig. NOR is not a bad gig. I'm good money. I made good money. And I was funneling all that money back into the game of real estate. But after the first property, I'll be honest, I walked around the office with my chest puffed out.

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You know, I'm a real estate investor. I thought I was mini Grant Cardone. Second property, I had a little bit of anxiety because I didn't know what the heck I was doing. I read two books, right? Yeah. Third property legit had a panic attack. And here's what I realized after three properties.

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I was doing this real estate and it was taking me time to find the listings, to find the property, to then rehab. I was flying down to Arizona doing the rehab on my own. What are you doing? Because I didn't know, man. I didn't know. And so, you know, I thought that's how I'm going to make more money. I'm just going to work hard, right? Work harder.

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And after three properties, I got further away from financial freedom than when I started because now I have a part-time job and a full-time gig. And I realized I could not scale my portfolio any faster. And I'll be honest with you, John, where the lesson really punched me in the gut is property management, right? I am the world's worst property manager.

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That is something you do not want to do as managerial Oh my gosh, man. And after that third property, like I was losing money and, you know, unless you want to go into it, like I had- Was it a late night phone call that finally pushed you over the edge?

Chapter 7: How can real estate investments lead to financial independence?

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What was it? Okay. All right. So here it is. So I was doing lease options back in the day when I first got here. I don't hate that. I don't hate that. I don't hate that business. Not bad, right? Not bad. That's the Cody Sperber method, man. I don't hate that. Dude, I'm telling you, it was actually great.

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So I did this open house on the third property and the tenant gave me a $5,000 option payment, a down payment on the property. Now his application was full of red flags, but it was $5,000. Okay, that was probably not so smart. And I think to myself, man, I'm just going to take that right there. So I took it. And for the next six months, I basically gave him all of that money back.

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And I'll never forget, I'm up in Rapid City, South Dakota, selling medical supply. I'm in a hospital, fortunately. And my phone starts ringing. And by this time, I'd gained a healthy apprehension of my phone because every time I rang, I knew it was a problem with one of my properties. Sure. And so it's ringing over and over. I've got a boardroom full of medical, you know, hospital providers.

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I'm trying to sell them equipment. And my phone just vibrates on the desk, you know. So finally, I excuse myself and I get out to the foyer there. I have a voicemail from the tenant's wife crying, saying, please don't evict us. She'll make sure it never happens again. Voicemails from several of the neighbors of the property I own saying they're going to sue me.

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And a voicemail from the tenant himself saying that that's his lawn and he would do it again if he had to. Then I had the final voicemail from a police officer saying, son, you better call me. I call him up and I find out that my tenant shot with a gun, a neighbor's cats who he perceived coming on his property, blew up the cat right there on the property.

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And I realized to myself, I can't do like, can I do it? Maybe I didn't want to do it. Like I was further away from financial freedom because I have a part-time job and I'm not a good property manager. Yeah. And this opened me up to like quitting, number one.

Chapter 8: What role does AI play in the future of entrepreneurship?

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And I think this is where a lot of real estate investors get a bad rap is they go in thinking real estate's gonna be the path, but it's not financial freedom unless you build a system around it. I call them the HGTV investors. That was me. I was HGTV. I read the purple book. I'm like, oh, cashflow is the game.

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Yeah, I had $1,000 of cash flow between those three properties, but man, I'm working my butt off for it. And so what I realized is I had to actually build a system where I could be the CEO of a portfolio, not do the work. And for the first time ever, man, like I said, I grew up in a very hardworking blue collar family. For the first time ever, I had to shift from working harder

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to working smarter. And that changed the game. Over the next three years, after that first year, I scaled it from three properties to 17 properties. And I'll never forget the day I quit. I walked away from my corporate job financially free. I like to call that working on the business, not in the business. That was it right there. I had to work on the business. That was the whole game.

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I consult for equity a lot with a lot of companies that are struggling to grow and scale. And that's almost always the problem. I literally have an appointment tomorrow at one o'clock with a plumbing business here in town that's desperate not to scale. And I already know what the problem is. I already know.

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And so we'll take a piece of that plumbing business and get them going the right direction by just extrapolating the principles from the business. And that's so powerful, man. That's the whole game. So when you got to 17, so, okay, when you were buying properties, obviously it's changed a lot since then, right? The yields, well, I mean, rents have gone up a lot too.

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What was your box as far as rent yield? 15% cash on cash. That's all you wanted. That's all I wanted was a 50%. I built a calculator and I could just run things through my system and say, okay, if it's 15% cash on cash, if it's in the right neighborhood and you know, there's no major, you know, foundational issues with the property, I'll buy it. Right. Sure.

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And that's obviously since changed a lot, especially if you're doing a passive. So I think really for me, the biggest game that I've learned now over owning, you know, I've owned real estate now since 2009, all the way to today is it's not trying to time the market market's going to change. It's going to go up and down. Interest rates are going to be what they're going to be up, down, high, low.

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But the real wealth in owning real estate is owning the real estate. And so if you can build a portfolio in a system, and that's really what that book is all about. This book that you wrote here? 100%. Okay, cool.

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I know how to get, like, anyone can become financially free and generate six figures of tax-free income using the system talked about in that book with less than 20 single family homes, as long as you own it for 10 years. Well, we, you know, we... We buy property all over the place, and a lot of people are scared to do that. So let's talk a little bit about building that system.

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