#111 John Morrison: Why Sustainability Will Come Back Stronger
episode
Frankly Speaking - A Podcast on Responsible Business
36 min
1 speaker
7 chapters
transcribed 1 month ago
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How did John Morrison first become involved in business and human rights?
Welcome to Frankly Speaking, the podcast on responsible business by Facbold, the European public interest law firm. I'm Richard Howitt and after many years leading debates about responsible business inside the European Parliament, I lead our discussions about the very latest on corporate sustainability, sustainable finance, business and human rights. Today, John Morrison, someone that I've worked with closely and had the privilege of doing so over many years, John has stepped down as the Chief Executive of the Institute of Human Rights and Business after 16 years. And in this podcast, we'll learn the lessons that John has drawn on business and human rights and why he's now written a new book suggesting the current pushback on sustainability may not entirely be a bad thing. John, a very warm welcome to Frankly Speaking. Thank you, Richard. It's great to be here.
Now, as I often ask my guests first, how did you very first get into business and human rights in your life or in your career? What brought you to all of this?
In my 20s, I worked on refugee protection, mainly around the former Yugoslavia and Bosnia and the settlement of refugees into the UK. And I was lucky enough to get a Harkness Fellowship to the US in my late 20s, which were public policy fellowships. And I focused on immigration and refugee policy in America and the pushback that was going on in the mid-90s. But there's been several pushbacks since then. These things are cyclical. But what I observed in America was the role of business, right? I guess I was a little cynical about even going to America, let alone researching the role of business. But that was a surprising outcome, looking at the broad-based coalitions that were put together in Washington to retain immigration quotas and refugee quotas.
So I came back to Europe with these ideas that business had something to do with human rights and humanitarian assistance. And I was lucky enough to fall in with Anita Roddick and Gordon Roddick, the founders of the Body Shop around then, and get to know them personally and then get to work for the company personally. And I think it sort of opened my eyes to not just the bad things that business can do, but also the possibility for leverage and advocacy as well. So that really was my way in in the late 90s, yeah.
And I remember meeting Anita, who sadly now died, and Gordon in those times. Maybe you and I met, I don't recall. But it was a sea change, wasn't it? It was a company that was really radical in its advocacy about human rights. It was a campaigning entity as much as any NGO. and yet they saw it as bringing marketing success to the company. They had more sales by taking that view. Now, not every company can do that, but did it prove something? You were there at the time. What does that teach businesses today about how you can speak out on human rights issues but also benefit the business?
Yeah, I think so. I mean, I observed how much authenticity matters. The fact that Anita and Gordon were deeply authentic about it. I mean, this wasn't PR, this wasn't marketing. Anita was a schoolteacher who'd worked for the ILO for a year as well. internship there. And I think she was a coincidental CEO in a way. So for her, it wasn't a choice, right, that she would ask questions around the supply chain of the company or lend the 50 markets around the world to campaigning with Greenpeace or Amnesty International. I remember those sort of 30, 40 page documents that we would put together around these global collaborations. And and how we would get millions of customers to engage on early commitments to renewable energy or for human rights defenders, et cetera. I do think almost we're coming back to this now. I mean, some of the leading brands who I think now feel that authenticity really matters and that human rights and sustainability are more than ticking boxes, more than compliance. Of course, it has to be compliance too, but it is...
You know, I almost think we're coming full circle again. I deeply miss Anita, though. I don't think her place has quite been taken since. And you then went on to the Business Leaders Initiative on Human Rights, which was an attempt to get leading business people to really drive forward together on this.
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Chapters
7 chapters
1
How did John Morrison first become involved in business and human rights?
0:02–5:43
2
What lessons did the Body Shop experience teach about authenticity and profit?
5:43–11:16
3
How did the Business Leaders Initiative on Human Rights evolve into the Institute for Business & Human Rights?
11:16–16:10
4
What progress and gaps exist in business and human rights since 2009?
16:10–21:32
5
Why does John argue that green‑hushing harms both sustainability and human rights?
21:32–27:08
6
How should we measure sustainability progress with system‑wide and nexus metrics?
27:08–32:47
7
What does the future of business, human rights, and sustainability look like after 2030?
32:47–36:12
Speakers
1 identifiedMore from Frankly Speaking - A Podcast on Responsible Business
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