Chapter 1: What leads are being followed up on in this episode?
This season of guilt is brought to you by Anytime Fitness Australia. Home to Fitphoria, the special place that fuels confidence, connection and joy. It's why they do what they do.
Hello and welcome back to The Debrief. Before we dive in, I wanted to introduce the full team on the line today. I'm Bella, the community manager here at Gilt. And as always, I'm joined by our host, Ryan Wolfe.
Hello.
And our site lead, Jacob Sathor. What's going on? This episode will be referencing and discussing digital files and maps on screen. If you're listening only, we'll do our best to describe things for you. Otherwise, you can watch this episode on Gilt's YouTube channel. Just search for Gilt in the search bar.
As always, we'll be answering some of your questions relating to this week's episode, which we encourage you to fire through to us on our website.
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Chapter 2: How does Ian's revelation about Gus's property interest impact the case?
Let's get into it. Now, on the latest episode of Gilt, Ryan's back on the Sunshine Coast to follow up with some of the key leads from Pyreburn But before we go back into that, Ryan, how are we feeling about the property connection between Tony and Gus on Eastern Mary River Road?
Yeah, it's, you know, it was one of those ones like sometimes, you know, when I go to a place and I'm working on the story, then I, it's not until I'm sort of back in my office and I'm actually putting together an episode that something can really like you know, just dawn on me more. I can have more of an epiphany.
And when I was writing this episode, I just remembered thinking, and I think in the episode I say, is it likely or even probable, you know, when we're starting to make those connections. And I just, in my head, I just thought, you know, what are the odds? Like, what are the odds that if it is Gus, he's looking at this property, if he, you know, it just made me think,
wow, like this could be, we really could be onto something here. And it did make me think, okay, I need to go back to the drawing board and try to put a bit more effort into trying to maybe find where this spot might be. And, you know, real estate agent angle, which I'm in the background working on, you know, and I thought as well, you know,
this all could hinge on whether Gus officially looked at the property or whether it was he like just window window shopping, right? You know, sometimes you say you're looking at a property, but really you're just driving down the road. You're standing next to it on the road and having a look, you know, and if that's the case, there'd be no real record of that.
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Chapter 3: What insights do we gain about Derek Sam's character?
You may not have spoken to anyone or officially been shown it, um, which would make this harder. But you know, if he did go to an agent or if he did meet with Tony, um, Just like Tony was that day, you'd think, would he have taken Gus to that same spot? Gus could have been familiar with that spot. It really just made me think, okay, there's meat on this bone here.
The further we go, the more I realize there's one person really that we need to speak to, and that's Gus.
Agreed. You know, I loved I love the dynamic between, especially between you and Ian, particularly after you made that connection, you got the microphone back on, because you can hear kind of the excitement in you pretty quickly. Like, you know, the dot was connected. And, you know, and and he, I love that his demeanor did not change.
As you kind of laid out, nobody you see, like he told me about this. And then he's like, Could be the same one. He was very, very much just like, well. But honestly, it was, he really, I didn't feel like you had to dig too much because I feel like there are some inclinations that he has had for years in this scenario.
Chapter 4: What role does the property on Kitterman Creek play in the investigation?
Maybe not with relation to Ann specifically, but with Gus and all of these things that he's experienced with him. it, it just seems like at least the vibe I got from Ian was like, well, here's another one, you know, like, because the experiences with Gus had been so, so deep and so, so prolific, I guess to say, you know, for lack of a better term. Um, but yeah,
did anything go i know obviously the the mike can't always catch everything you can't always fit everything into into those episodes um what was you know after that kind of that epiphany had happened what was the discussion like between the two of you with mike's off was he did he see did he kind of completely understand the connections that you were making was he on board with that did he have any trepidation there
Yeah, you know, Ian was one of those people where, yeah, the mic, like, you know, after the mic went off, he'd always just keep talking and there's all these little nuggets being sprinkled through everywhere and you're sort of, you know, that I'm just picking up. Yeah, and I think you're right.
It's kind of, and he stays pretty level because it's kind of like, yeah, well, I've been saying this for like 25 years or whatever, you know. I think... Yeah, I think he's probably hard to excite, Ian. But I think when I suggested, when I told him about this thing, about the property down the road and everything, yeah, I mean, he was like, wow.
Yeah, like you said, he's like, well, that'll be the one then. You know, obviously.
Yeah.
Ryan, there was one thing that sort of tumbled out of Ian's mouth, really. But he did mention Kitterman Creek where Gus and Debbie lived as sort of, it was just a very brief mention about four minutes and as somewhere that Gus could have done something or put something.
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Chapter 5: How do the hosts analyze the police's approach to Gus?
I noticed you didn't mention that in the rest of the episode. So is that something you're paying any mind to at the moment?
Yeah, it's one of those things, what Bella's referring to here is that Ian made a comment that he had thought it could be possible that had Gus done this, he could have dumped a body down a bank on Kitterman Creek, which is where they were living at the time.
I think if he took a back road or went back there, there would be a spot where there's bush and a steep bank, and if he threw something off there, it would just roll down the bank. It was one of those things that I sort of thought, I know that area. I went out there with Debbie. You're talking a long stretch of road in the bush. And yeah, I thought he sort of said enough with what he said.
There wasn't really much more reason for me to delve into it.
uh you know like it's um just a thought of his that that could be a place to put a body but then like you said you know these places have been burned out by bushfires multiple times since then so um you know your chances of finding anything would be slim to none even if it was so you know it's just one of those things it's it's a thought an interesting thought until you had sort of um
more rock-solid evidence. Let's say if you suddenly, if we became aware that, okay, Gus is responsible, no doubt, then you'd be thinking, okay, where are the places we could be looking? If I'm the police, that's what I'm thinking, right? Okay, we know he did it. We got him.
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Chapter 6: What are the implications of Ian's comments regarding Gus's actions?
Where could he have put the body? That's when I think you'd be looking in areas like that. And just on that, just mentioning the police, Clearly they had Gus in their sights for this at some point. He made this comment that he was number two. I know that obviously they had interviewed him, it sounds like at length.
you know, this new lead in terms of Tony and what he saw, you know, you think about it now and this is completely new. It's never been known. Had this happened at the time, uh, you know, you wonder how things might've been different. There may have been a way to chase it up a bit more. Let's just say hypothetically, if it was Gus that day with Anne, um,
you know, like this is unknown stuff, you know, like could it have been possible? I'm sure at the time, Tony would have remembered what the car was, some more details, the location exactly. If Gus had looked at his property, you know, but those connections were never made. And it shows you how
Chapter 7: How do personal stories enhance the narrative of the investigation?
you know, someone can have a piece of information that they think is not important because they don't know the greater context of a story. Um, let's just imagine Tony has no idea that Gus is a suspect in this case, you know, because the police have got that information.
Um, we could assume, and you know, and if Gus did go and look at his property, well, Tony doesn't, he has got no idea of that connection. Um, you know, it's, uh, yeah, I just wonder like, you know, how much easier it would have been to look into the Tony lead back at that time and how much more information could potentially have been sort of pulled out of it.
And at the time, Tony, Gus never actually owned the property, correct? He was, he was just from what we understand was looking at it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um, yeah, I, I think what else... You mentioned Ian kind of exasperated. I've been saying this for... I think it's crazy to think that this many...
Chapter 8: What future developments can we expect in the Guilt Podcast?
I guess the handful of people you've come into contact with now or made contact with that did know Gus, the overwhelming similarities in their perception of him and their, you know, kind of their take on him. I guess I don't understand why these sort of Let me take it back. How much do we know that the police looked into him?
Is it just simply from what Ian said, or have you heard specifically from law enforcement that he was considered in any way, shape, or form?
We're really just going at this point on what Debbie's saying and what Ian's saying. I've not spoken to anyone specifically about it yet. You know, so far, everything that Debbie told me in that first interview has checked out, you know, with Ian at least. So no reason to think that that's not true, that they did look into it.
But Ian sort of did allude to the fact, maybe after the mic was off, that, you know, he didn't really feel like they were taking it so seriously.
Yeah.
How much did it even get looked into? Was it just a matter of bringing him in, interviewing him, but not actually cross-checking other leads and connection to him? I don't know.
Another thing you look at in this episode is the proximity of all of these things. And it's just crazy to me that...
it it sounds like given everybody's perception of gus that at the time a woman goes missing in this area it seems like everybody would be like have you talked to that guy you know i mean because it just sounds like everyone kind of has that same perception of him so that's that's really interesting to me that if if if they did why was it dismissed so quickly
Did something happen that just made it easier just to walk away from that? Because it just seems like to all of us, it's like, man, this guy's got a neon sign on his chest. You know, that's what it seems like. So I feel like law enforcement couldn't have just been like, ah, probably not. You know, there had to have been something that made it tough to connect him in some way.
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