Habits and Hustle
Episode 455: Dr. Vishal Patel: Why Your Feet Control Your Longevity and Most Wellness Tech Is Wrong
Tue, 03 Jun 2025
Are wellness retreats just luxury getaways, or can they transform your health? In this episode of the Habits and Hustle podcast, I speak with Dr. Vishal Patel, who explains how most wellness gadgets might be causing more stress than health benefits. We explore the science behind Sensei's approach, including how thermal imaging can detect muscular imbalances before they cause pain, and why most saunas aren't hot enough to deliver benefits. Dr. Patel debunks popular wellness myths, shares why foot strength is the foundation of longevity, and explains why tracking obsession can be counterproductive. Dr. Vishal Patel is the Chief Scientific Officer at Sensei, a wellness retreat company co-founded by Larry Ellison and Dr. David Agus. With a background as a physician with a PhD in genetics, Dr. Patel combines Western medicine with Eastern practices like Ayurveda to create evidence-based wellness approaches that focus on personalization rather than rigid rules. What We Discuss: 03:02 Personalized Wellness Programs 05:51 The Science of Eating and Nourishment 08:56 Understanding Body Mechanics for Longevity 12:03 Vishal Patel's Background and Expertise 14:54 Debunking Wellness Myths and Misinformation 20:13 The Science Behind Wellness Trends 25:14 Exploring Infrared Saunas and Their Efficacy 30:00 The Role of Data in Health Tracking 35:29 Understanding Plasmapheresis and Its Implications …and more! Thank you to our sponsors: Momentous: Shop this link and use code Jen for 20% off Therasage: Head over to therasage.com and use code Be Bold for 15% off TruNiagen: Head over to truniagen.com and use code HUSTLE20 to get $20 off any purchase over $100. Magic Mind: Head over to www.magicmind.com/jen and use code Jen at checkout. Bio.me: Link to daily prebiotic fiber here, code Jennifer20 for 20% off. David: Buy 4, get the 5th free at davidprotein.com/habitsandhustle. Find more from Jen: Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/ Instagram: @therealjencohen Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagement Find more from Dr. Vishal Patel: Website: https://sensei.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vishal-n-patel-md-phd/
Chapter 1: What is the significance of personalized wellness programs?
So I'm joined today by Dr. Vishal Patel, who is the chief science and innovative officer at a place called, it's the most beautiful place I've ever been, Sensei. Sensei is basically, I want you to kind of walk us through it because I had a beautiful experience. It is a wellness facility that is beyond anything I've ever been to because of the care and the quality and just overall the programming.
Let's talk about how would you describe what it is, and then let's get into your background and what your involvement is.
Oh, sure. To describe what it is, it's a wellness retreat, but even that doesn't do justice to the place and the experience. It was a vision that our co-founders, Larry Ellison and David Agus, had. It was the passing of a close friend, Steve Jobs, that really made them realize that the world needs...
spaces where even the best and brightest can feel safe and get trusted, vetted advice about their health and wellness. And I think that's probably what you experienced at Lanai, that it feels like a place where you can let your guard down, where you can You, you can, you can feel safe.
You can have space to wander and you have experts, which are really hidden gems that a lot of people don't expect, but we have brilliant, brilliant minds and hearts on Lanai that can guide our guests to greater wellbeing. It's, it's something special.
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Chapter 2: How does understanding body mechanics contribute to longevity?
It is something special. Yeah. So like I went to the one like on, in Lanai, in, in Hawaii and there's, how many locations do you guys have? Three now?
We are now three as of last week. Yeah, we just opened our first international location in Cabo with the Ritz Carlton Reserve in Mexico.
So, yeah, because the one I went to was with the Four Seasons. And let me just kind of like explain and break it down a bit, because I've been given what I do for my background, for my job, for whatever. I've been to like a plethora of different wellness facilities. I've tried every program, retreat. Number one, what I found to be very unique, it is very personalized.
That's the first thing I would say. And the attention to detail with what you can have. I think I did the rest of relaxation program and Jim, I think his name was Jim, who really kind of like really did a lot of like intake on like my background, what I'm going through in life. And then the program is very personalized for me.
You also have another program that I didn't do that's very much about data and metrics.
Yeah, we call it the Optimal Wellbeing Program.
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Chapter 3: What are some common wellness myths that need debunking?
the optimal wellbeing program.
What I found though, with the one I was at, the one thing I found was interesting was, you know, a lot of these programs, the food is very precise, like the, you know, the caloric intake you're taking, they really kind of try to like, they try to really kind of, I guess, kind of like be involved in like your overall, like what you're taking in nutrition wise while you're there.
Yeah, we often describe it as like a prescription or a bootcamp or a regimen. I know I'm really familiar with, you know, maybe like the ranch in Malibu and places like that where it can feel a little, yeah, very restrictive. Yes, that's right.
Yeah, but there's a really property in there, right?
That's right.
There was very little. Yeah, I found that to be like kind of like the antithesis that what a wellness program is about. Can you explain why you guys are not?
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, because I found that to be an interesting takeaway.
Yeah. And in a nutshell, it's because the scientific evidence doesn't support rules for living life. So when we looked at the scientific literature, my, my team and our co-founders for what results in say healthy eating, just as one example, you know, we focus on movement, rest, but just taking food and nourishment.
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Chapter 4: How effective are infrared saunas for health benefits?
a diet where you're following a set of rules, you end up having this yo-yo behavior where people end up latching onto a diet thinking it's going to be the end all be all. They fall off and then they revert back to their old ways and old habits. And then they find the next fad diet and then they latch onto that.
and so sensei didn't want to perpetuate that not only is it an unsustainable approach to living it's not good for you you end up with a slightly disordered relationship with food where you use food as punishment and reward it's it's not healthy for us in the long run and so that's why it's open-ended it's kind of more like a choose your own adventure rather than a boot camp where we're going to tell you what to do
And I know what you mean. We get a lot of guests that show up and say, okay, so tell me what to eat. Tell me when to wake up. Tell me when to sleep. Where are my supplements? Just tell me what to do. But longevity and wellness don't work like that. It's about the choices you make and learning to teach yourself to be more intentional with those choices.
And so that's why Sensei was designed in that way.
Yeah, like I found a lot of things that I was questioning, there was scientific backing of why it is the way it is, right? The food thing really threw me for a loop because to me, a big piece of wellness and health is all it is about the the nourishing part, right? That the food. Also, I love to eat.
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Chapter 5: What role does data play in health tracking?
I'm with you. Yeah, I'm a big proponent of almost food as medicine. I studied Ayurvedic medicine in India, which is, you know, that's kind of a central tenet of that system of thought. But on the flip side, telling someone what to eat removes the joy out of food, removes the sensory appreciation from food.
And what we recognize is that, no, the sensory aspect of eating is just as important as the macronutrients on your plate. It has to look pretty. It has to be presented beautifully. There's a certain pace to eating that needs to be synchronized with your gastronomy. So you actually are salivating before you eat.
And so we take all that into consideration to introduce a more intentional approach to eating.
Yeah, I mean, can you talk about more of the science behind that? Because overall in the program, just to kind of give some differentiation for people why it is different, because like you said, well, like besides the fact that they're in these beautiful places and the programming is spectacular from, of course, you have the sound baths, you have the yoga, you have all the meditation.
Even the teacher, I had this other teacher there, which again, kind of like threw me for a loop because I thought I had like this one-on-one with him to do like that. I thought like a, like a personal training session. Right. But it was a very unique one because it wasn't what I was expecting. I ended up taking off my shoes.
He was looking at my feet and he gave me literally like a, like, like a four-year degree and how my feet are the, is basically where all the power comes in. And while my strength comes in, if my feet are not strong, then basically my whole body will fall apart. Like my hips, my knees, my joints.
Yeah, so that sounds like Eduardo.
Eduardo. But I'll tell you something, heat is not wrong because my feet are weak. They're flat. They aren't, not to give people too much information, but like my arches have fallen, all the things because I work out so hard.
Yeah.
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Chapter 6: How do feet influence overall health and longevity?
So maybe it was your footwear. Maybe you were wearing shoes that were a little too tight. Maybe you didn't really think about your footfall while running, and that might be why you're having the knee pain. Maybe there is a lot of tension in your jaw that stems from your ergonomics in your workplace.
But all of these small details are really almost imperceptible in our day-to-day life because we build our environments in pursuit of a vision, in pursuit of a goal, because we're trying to achieve something.
But to be able to do that for the long haul, like you said, longevity for a longer, healthier life, you do need occasional resets or retreats where you can take a more mindful approach at things like your footwear or the type of pillow that you sleep on. Maybe the pillow is contributing to your neck pain.
There's all of these subtle factors in our environment and our habits, but it really does take stepping away from it all to get that perspective.
Totally. Can you tell us a little bit about your background, how you got involved? Because you said you studied aromatic medicine. You're obviously a physician. Can you just explain to us what your expertise is and the relationship?
Yeah, happy to. I trained as a physician. I got my PhD in genetics, both from Case Western Reserve in Ohio. Oddly enough, and I know we were having some IT challenges at the beginning of the call, so maybe you'll find this amusing, but the reason I got into Sensei was because of technology and data of all things.
My background, my research was in the same field of research as Dr. Agus, our co-founder, which was proteomics and genomics. And it was the data and...
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Chapter 7: What wellness trends lack scientific backing?
The intention was to think about human beings on the inside, as well as on the outside as complex systems that maybe we don't understand how everything works, but maybe if we measure more of it, we can start painting a more complete picture of how human beings work. And that was really what motivated me. And when I came to Sensei, it was the same vision that I
Yeah, our guests as high performers, we're all hell bent on figuring out how this world works and making it better in some form or fashion. And we're really analytical. We like to measure everything around us so that we can perform better, faster, harder. And the thought was, well, why don't we take that language of data that really speaks to us and to our guests
and use it as almost like a mirror to turn that lens inward. Say, why don't we measure you? Why don't we shed some light on how you're doing? So some of the initial data that we were collecting, basic things like blood pressure and lipid panels that were just surprising, but our guests hadn't had that measured in a while.
We had a partnership with Whoop, which was tremendous, because then we started collecting real life, real world data. you know, our guests in the wild and their home environments. And we get to see how they're doing and whether they're doing well or not so well. And then there's some real exciting innovations that Sensei has incubated. One that I'm passionate about is around thermography.
And we're using thermal cameras that are used in like home construction and defense. But again, we're taking that lens and pointing it at the human being and saying, well, why don't we look at your thermal patterns and thermal signatures? Why don't we try to understand skin temperature as a biomarker and to tell us, to try and figure out what does that tell us about what's happening inside of you?
And it's really exciting. And so, again, I think for me being at Sensei, it feels like a culmination of my love of data and technology. But I also get to blend the East and the West. So I studied Ayurveda. I have a deep appreciation for traditions and culture and history. And that has a really important place. It always has and always will in how human beings understand their health and wellness.
Here in Mexico now, there's an indigenous system of medicine here in Mexico.
There are traditional ways that people have thought about health and food and diet, and you have to take those into consideration when you're trying to shift perceptions and minds, when you're trying to introduce healthier eating patterns, when you're trying to incorporate more physical activity, you do have to be considerate of how people grew up and where they came from.
And so I enjoy bringing that understanding of Eastern traditions and culture as well as biomedicine into my work at Sensei. And again, before we started, I mentioned we don't diagnose and treat at our retreats. And so sometimes people wonder, it's like, yeah, well, why do you need a doctor at the helm? It's actually because we say no to a lot of things.
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Chapter 8: How can we differentiate between effective wellness practices and myths?
People think it's because the farmer is trying to control it, but people, and maybe that's true. I'm not saying it is or not, but you know, a concern is you do, there is not enough fact research to know what the outcomes are because they haven't been around long enough.
Yeah. And plus many of them are proprietary. So in Sensei's work, as we look at skincare and try to find evidence-based skincare products for our customers, there's been so many brands we've said no to because they concocted this chemical in their lab. There's no published peer-reviewed toxicology report that we can stand behind, that we can believe in. And Yeah, and I think that's unfortunate.
But on the other hand, I feel like the consumer, maybe because of podcasts like this, I think consumers are becoming more informed and discerning. They're looking for transparency in ingredients and manufacturing and quality. And I feel like that's part of Sensei's mission is to keep educating and informing our listeners so that they can make more informed choices.
One thing I found very interesting when I was there, I had this back and forth with one of your employees because I went to use the sauna, the infrared sauna, and it was cold in there. I'm telling you, it was cold in there, Michelle. Okay. It was literally, I'm like, can we put it on? And they're like, oh, it's the highest that we can put it. And I'm like, the highest?
I'm like, literally, I need to go get a towel and wrap it around me. It was cold. She said 140 was the highest. I was like, first of all, I have the same sauna at home. And my problem with the sauna that I have is that it's too cold. It goes up to 170, and it takes a long time to go up to 170. And it still doesn't get me hot enough.
And she's like, oh, all the research proves that your body is from the inside out, poor temperature, all these things. and you don't have to sweat. Like I pushed back on that a little bit. I pushed back on that one.
Thank you. I think that may be a bug, might be an error.
It was very adamant. And then the next time someone else said also that they could only put it up to a certain temperature
Cause no, so if you, you have one, so, you know, and, um, and I appreciate you bringing that up to me and, uh, it's silly, but not really.
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