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Healthy As A Mother

Health & Fitness

Episodes

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Your Cycle Report Card: Symptom Clues That Reveal Your Hormones & Fertility | #154

Contributed by Lukas

Your menstrual cycle isn’t random; it’s a monthly hormone report card.In this episode, Dr. Leah breaks down how to decode your cycle from bleed to...

Detoxing Before Pregnancy: What Actually Matters (and What Doesn’t) | #162

29 Apr 2026

Contributed by Lukas

Detoxing before pregnancy is one of the most misunderstood topics in the health space. In this episode, we break down what detox actually means in the...

Boundaries in Motherhood: Why You Feel Controlled (and How to Take Your Power Back) | #161

22 Apr 2026

Contributed by Lukas

What if the tension you feel in motherhood isn’t about your decisions… but about your boundaries?In this episode, we break down one of the most ov...

The Future of IVF Embryo Testing (and What Rhino Babies Reveal About Fertility) with Cara Wells, PhD | #160

15 Apr 2026

Contributed by Lukas

In this episode of Healthy As A Mother, we’re pulling back the curtain on one of the most misunderstood parts of IVF: embryo selection.Because here’...

A Better Way to Understand Mental & Emotional Patterns in You and Your Kids with Dr. Steve Rondeau | #159

08 Apr 2026

Contributed by Lukas

Mental health is often treated like a guessing game, but what if we could actually see what’s happening in the brain?In this episode, Dr. Steve Rond...

Epidurals: What They Don’t Tell You (Risks, Myths & When You Actually Need One) | #158

01 Apr 2026

Contributed by Lukas

Epidurals are one of the most common, and most misunderstood, parts of modern birth.In this episode, we break down everything you actually need to kno...

Trying to Get Pregnant After Pregnancy Loss? Here’s What No One Tells You | #157

25 Mar 2026

Contributed by Lukas

If you’ve experienced pregnancy loss and are thinking about trying to conceive again, this episode walks you through what most women aren’t told a...

Newborn Interventions Every Mom Should Understand Before Birth | #156

18 Mar 2026

Contributed by Lukas

What actually happens to your baby in the first 24–48 hours after birth, and which newborn interventions should you say yes or no to?In this episode...

The Truth About Motherhood Right Now: Sleep Deprivation, Overwhelm & Finding Routine Again | #155

11 Mar 2026

Contributed by Lukas

In this honest life update episode, we’re sharing what motherhood looks like for us right now... the wins, the challenges, and the very real in-betw...

Pregnancy Over 40: Real Risks, Benefits & What No One Explains About Having Babies Later | #153

25 Feb 2026

Contributed by Lukas

Pregnancy over 40 is often surrounded by fear, but the real story is more nuanced than most women are told.In Part 2 of our Over 40 series, we break d...

Fertility Over 40: What Actually Matters (And How to Optimize Your Chances) | #152

18 Feb 2026

Contributed by Lukas

Part 1 of a 2-Part Series: Fertility Over 40Fertility over 40 is becoming more common than ever, but with it comes confusion, fear, and a lot of outda...

When Sex Hurts: The Root Causes No One Talks About | #151

11 Feb 2026

Contributed by Lukas

Painful sex is far more common than most women realize and far more complex than we’re ever taught.In this episode, Dr. Leah shares her deeply perso...

Everything You Were Never Taught About the Placenta (And Why It Matters So Much) | #150

04 Feb 2026

Contributed by Lukas

The placenta is one of the most misunderstood organs in pregnancy, yet it plays a central role in implantation, miscarriage risk, fetal growth, preecl...

Why Modern Motherhood Feels So Hard: The Human Animal in Captivity | #149

28 Jan 2026

Contributed by Lukas

Why does modern motherhood feel so hard — even when you’re doing everything “right”?In this episode of Healthy As A Mother, we explore a power...

How Our Culture & Systems Failed Women Who Want to Be Mothers

21 Jan 2026

Contributed by Lukas

Our culture and systems have failed many women who want to be mothers, not through malice, but through neglect, misalignment, and outdated priorities....

A Real Life Update: Pregnancy, Motherhood Seasons & What’s Changing for Us | #147

14 Jan 2026

Contributed by Lukas

In this life update episode, we’re sitting down for an honest, unfiltered conversation about what’s really been going on behind the scenes: from p...

5 Things That Ruin Breastfeeding (And Why No One Prepares Mothers for This) | #146

07 Jan 2026

Contributed by Lukas

Breastfeeding is often framed as natural, yet so many mothers struggle, feel overwhelmed, or are told their bodies are failing them. In this episode, ...

#145: Coming Off Birth Control: What Your Body Needs Before Pregnancy

31 Dec 2025

Contributed by Lukas

In this episode of Healthy As A Mother, we’re joined by Dr. Leah Gordon to explore why so many women struggle with fertility, even when their labs l...

#144: The Hidden Emotional Toll of Infertility | Dr. Andrea Liner

24 Dec 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Womanhood Wellness is where functional medicine meets feminine wisdom—guiding you to balance hormones, awaken libido, and prepare for pregnancy with...

#143: Supplements in Pregnancy: What You SHOULD and SHOULD NOT Take

17 Dec 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Pregnant and wanting to learn how to optimize your health, prepare for birth, learn to breastfeed, and heal during postpartum? Come take Dr. Morgan’...

#142: Why Salt Is More Important Than You Think | Darryl Bosshardt

10 Dec 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Get real, true hydration with Redmond Re-lyte! Try it for 15% off, here.What if the real problem isn't salt itself but the way we've stripped it, fear...

#141: 7 Everyday Things That Are Actually Bad for Your Hormones & Fertility - And What to Use Instead

03 Dec 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Womanhood Wellness is where functional medicine meets feminine wisdom—guiding you to balance hormones, awaken libido, and prepare for pregnancy with...

140: You’ll Never Conceive Until You Do This (The Top Fertility Killers)

26 Nov 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Womanhood Wellness is where functional medicine meets feminine wisdom—guiding you to balance hormones, awaken libido, and prepare for pregnancy with...

139: How to Transition Back to Work After Having a Baby | Dr. Jaclyn Smeaton ND

19 Nov 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Have you ever pumped milk in an airport bathroom while your boss texted you about a meeting?In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Jaclyn Smeaton, a na...

138: Everything You Need to Know About Post-Weaning Hormones in 30 Minutes

12 Nov 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Dealing with mastitis? Get Dr.Morgan’s comprehensive Mastitis Manual here, and learn all about how to tell which type of mastitis you have, if you n...

#137: Things We Wish We Knew Before IVF About Infertility - With Dr. Leah’s Husband, Mike Gordon

05 Nov 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Join Womanhood Wellness to learn more about all of the things we discuss in this episode.What if the world really was rigged in your favor, even when ...

#136: How Breech Birth Exposes Hospital Dysfunction | Dr. Stuart Fischbein MD

29 Oct 2025

Contributed by Lukas

What if the skills that make breech and twin birth safe have been intentionally erased from modern medicine?In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Stua...

#135: The Truth About Ultrasounds: Risks & Benefits

22 Oct 2025

Contributed by Lukas

​​Want to learn all of Dr. Morgan's expert advice on pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding, and postpartum? Get her lessons here! Ultrasounds can save b...

#134: How to Find the Right Balance in Fertility, Parenting & Beauty Treatments

15 Oct 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Womanhood Wellness is where functional medicine meets feminine wisdom—guiding you to balance hormones, awaken libido, and prepare for pregnancy with...

#133: Understanding & Fixing The Root Cause of Low Milk Supply | Lynnelle King

08 Oct 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Sick while breastfeeding or pregnant? Click here to learn all Dr. Morgan’s top natural and effective remedies to help yourself through colds, flus, ...

#132: Prolactin: The Hormone You Didn't Know You Needed to Check

01 Oct 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Womanhood Wellness is where functional medicine meets feminine wisdom—guiding you to balance hormones, awaken libido, and prepare for pregnancy with...

#131: How to Handle Sibling Fights with Ralphie Jacobs

23 Sep 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Got sick kids? Click here to learn all our favorite natural remedies for children from newborn through to big kids!What if sibling rivalry isn’t som...

#130: Fertility, Birth & Motherhood: Expectation VS Reality

16 Sep 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Womanhood Wellness is where functional medicine meets feminine wisdom—guiding you to balance hormones, awaken libido, and prepare for pregnancy with...

#129: Everything You Need to Know About Hospital Birth with Care Messer

10 Sep 2025

Contributed by Lukas

What does it really take to have a good birth in a hospital?In this episode, we're joined by Care Messer, Founder of the Birth Education Center in San...

#128: The Secret Fertility Factor No One Talks About: Your Uterine Microbiome

03 Sep 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Did you know that you have bacteria in your uterus? And that the types of bacteria there may impact whether you get pregnant or not. We talk all about...

#127: Morning Sickness: Root Causes + Treatment

27 Aug 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Nausea in pregnancy, or "morning sickness," is a multifactorial issue that we CAN usually affect in a positive way - and today we outline th...

#126: Abortion: Nuance + Challenge with Dr. Nathan Riley OBGYN

20 Aug 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Dr. Morgan and Dr. Nathan Riley have an open, and most importantly, nuanced conversation about abortion. Dr. Riley is an OBGYN and is dual board-certi...

#125: Season 9 Life Updates

13 Aug 2025

Contributed by Lukas

It's time for our life update episode again! It's almost the end of summer and Dr. Morgan shares about an unexpected diagnosis and her new e...

#124: Don't Make This Hormone Mistake Before Pregnancy!

06 Aug 2025

Contributed by Lukas

In today's episode, we discuss the hormone mistake you want to avoid before pregnancy. We explain what hormones are, what imbalances may look lik...

#123: Twin Mom Life: Real Talk + Practical Tips from Allegra Gast of Aloha Nutrition

30 Jul 2025

Contributed by Lukas

If you find yourself pregnant with twins, you've landed in the right spot. Today on the podcast, Dr. Morgan interviews Allegra Gast of Aloha Nutr...

#122: Is Your Prenatal Enough? The Truth About Women's Nutrient Needs with Julie Sawaya & Ryan Woodbury

23 Jul 2025

Contributed by Lukas

In this episode, Dr Leah talks with Ryan and Julie, the co-founders of Needed. They dive into something often seen in practice: nutrient depletion. Wh...

#121: Pregnancy + Homebirth with Type 1 Diabetes with Dr. Gina Cummins

16 Jul 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Being pregnant and giving birth with Type 1 Diabetes takes specific intention, energy, and management of health. In this episode, Dr. Morgan has Dr. G...

#120: The Lowdown on Laryngomalacia

09 Jul 2025

Contributed by Lukas

When Dr. Morgan's fourth baby was just a few weeks old and started making a sometimes grunty sometimes squeaky noise with each inhale - She didn&...

#119: Raising Kids So They Don't Need Therapy with Sadie Ackerman

02 Jul 2025

Contributed by Lukas

How do we raise kids so they don't need therapy? Today, Dr. Leah interviews Sadie Ackerman of Finding Home Healing, all about how we heal our own...

#118: All About Preeclampsia, with Tiffany from Beautiful One Midwifery

25 Jun 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Have you ever wondered how preeclampsia is handled by midwives? Or how you can prevent it from occurring in the first place? Today on the podcast, Dr....

#117: Fueled and Feminine: How to Get Your Period Back with Dr. Elly Michelle

18 Jun 2025

Contributed by Lukas

In this episode, Dr. Leah interviews her dear friend and colleague, Dr. Elly Michelle, about hypothalamic amenorrhea, the medical term for not getting...

#116: 8 Root Causes of Pregnancy Loss

11 Jun 2025

Contributed by Lukas

No woman or couple should ever experience a pregnancy loss, yet sadly it happens in 1 in 4 pregnancies. Today we break down 8 overarching root-cause r...

#115: Birth Considerations + Prep for Sexual Trauma Survivors with Beth Warren LCSW

04 Jun 2025

Contributed by Lukas

In this episode, Dr. Morgan interviews perinatal mental health therapist and licensed clinical social worker, Beth Warren on the topic of how past tra...

#114: Truth is Your Medicine with Janne Robinson

28 May 2025

Contributed by Lukas

In today's episode, Dr. Leah interviews Janne Robinson, a poet, author, coach, all about truth. She shares her story and how it led her to her tr...

#113: Breastfeeding and Trying To Conceive

21 May 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Trying to get pregnant again while still breastfeeding is something Dr. Morgan gets asked about SO often - so we decided to dedicate a whole episode t...

#112: Thriving with Hashimoto’s: Gut Healing & Autoimmunity with Alison Marras

14 May 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Today on the podcast, Dr. Leah discusses Hashimoto's, autoimmunity, gut healing, and nutrition without super strict restrictive diets with Alison...

#111: Top 5 Reasons For Colic in Babies with Dr. Elana Roumell

07 May 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Colic is something we hope you never experience as a parent, but in case you're there or you're just preparing for the possibility - in this...

#110: Season 8 Life Updates

30 Apr 2025

Contributed by Lukas

We’re back with Season 8 of Healthy As A Mother! And we’re kicking things off the way we always do—with a raw and honest life update from both o...

#109: Vaccine Dilemmas: Hesitancy, Studies, & Alternative Schedules with Dr. Joel Gator Warsh

23 Apr 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Vaccines are a trending topic for many valid reasons at this moment, so we wanted to invite Dr. Joel Gator Warsh to talk to us today about his perspec...

#108: Surviving a Ruptured Ectopic Pregnancy with Sophia Pavia

16 Apr 2025

Contributed by Lukas

In this episode, Dr Leah interviews Sophia Pavia, the TTC Nutritionist, about her own recent personal experience with a ruptured ectopic pregnancy. Th...

#107: Raising a Big Family: Logistics, Judgment & Joy with Arianna Alloway

09 Apr 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Today on the podcast, Arianna Alloway talks about having a big family and the various dynamics around structuring their life to make it all work. Aria...

#106: The Motherhood Shift: Embracing the Pain, Growth & Power

02 Apr 2025

Contributed by Lukas

This is an important one for all soon-to-be and already established mothers. On today's show, we get really gritty about the process of becoming ...

#105: Blending Ancient Wisdom & Modern Motherhood with Carson Meyer

26 Mar 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Today we welcome Carson Meyer, doula, certified nutritional consultant, founder of the skincare line C & the Moon, and now new Author to the book ...

#104: Boosting Egg Quality for IVF, Egg Freezing & Natural Conception

19 Mar 2025

Contributed by Lukas

In today’s episode, we’re diving into how to boost egg quality during IVF or egg freezing. Supporting your eggs is a crucial part of the process, ...

#103: Bleeding in the First Trimester of Pregnancy

12 Mar 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Although it's not the happiest topic, as women and mothers - we need to know what can happen in our bodies - so today's episode is all about...

#102: Father Led Sleep Training with Wes MacDermott

05 Mar 2025

Contributed by Lukas

This is for those looking for an alternative, partner-led sleep training method. Dr. Morgan and her husband Wes discuss the way that they have gotten ...

#101: Manifestation and Fertility with Brooke Carver

26 Feb 2025

Contributed by Lukas

In today's special episode, we talk about manifesting husbands and babies, mediums, spirit guides, and all the woo-woo stuff that Dr. Leah loves ...

#100: Ok You're Pregnant - Now What?!

19 Feb 2025

Contributed by Lukas

You just found out you're pregnant- congrats! And now you're wondering - what next? what now? Or maybe you hope to be pregnant soon and the ...

#99: Holistic Approaches to Fertility with Sonia Ribas

12 Feb 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Today Dr. Leah interviews Sonia Ribas, an amazing fertility coach, all about holistic fertility. They talk about what holistic fertility even means, w...

#98: Pivoting The Plan and Managing Expectations in Parenting

05 Feb 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Today's episode is angled to be about parenting and motherhood but really can be applied to all facets of life. We discuss the seemingly ominous ...

#97: Mold and Fertility with Dr. Leslie Black

29 Jan 2025

Contributed by Lukas

In this episode, Dr. Leah interviews her brilliant colleague and dear friend, Dr. Leslie Black. They chat all about mold and how it impacts fertility ...

#96: How Stress Impacts Hormones for Fertility and Sexuality with Lucy Libido

22 Jan 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Today Dr Leah interviews Lucy Libido all about our main stress hormone cortisol and how it impacts key hormones for fertility and our sexuality, such ...

#95: Prenatal Exercises for Birth with Gina Conley

15 Jan 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Exercising during pregnancy has a slew of benefits for both you and your baby, as well as your birth and postpartum recovery - but which exercises sho...

#94: Preparing Older Children For Attending Your Homebirth

08 Jan 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Are you planning on having your older children attend the birth of your new baby at home? Have you wondered if there are things you can do to prepare ...

#93: Dr. Leah's Postpartum & Dr. Morgan's Preconception Care

01 Jan 2025

Contributed by Lukas

Welcome to Season 7 in this life update episode where Dr. Leah shares all about how her second postpartum has been, now that her son is 1 month. She s...

#92: Homebirth & Postpartum For Partners with Wes MacDermott

25 Dec 2024

Contributed by Lukas

We are excited to welcome Dr. Morgan's husband Wes back to the podcast to continue their conversations on his perspective on all things fatherhoo...

#91: The Magic of Acupuncture When TTC with Aphrodite Fertility Acupuncture

18 Dec 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Have you ever wondered if sticking needles all over your body can help you get pregnant? Today Dr. Leah interviewed Emily and Ghoncheh from Aphrodite ...

#90: All About Postpartum Rage with Dr. Alice Pickering PsyD

11 Dec 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Everyone has heard of postpartum depression, and maybe even postpartum anxiety - but postpartum RAGE is a symptom that can be a component of either of...

#89: Leah's Second Birth Story

04 Dec 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Dr. Leah has had her son and we are SO excited to welcome baby Kade to the world in this episode, detailing his birth story. Leah takes us on all of t...

#88: Gestational Diabetes Part 2 with Lily Nichols

27 Nov 2024

Contributed by Lukas

This is the second part of our two-part series all about Gestational Diabetes with Lily Nichols RDN. In this episode, we do an overview of testing opt...

#87: Gestational Diabetes Part 1 with Lily Nichols

20 Nov 2024

Contributed by Lukas

This episode is part 1 of an interview all about gestational diabetes with registered dietitian and well-known author, Lily Nichols. We discuss the in...

#86: Top 10 Male Fertility Testing Tips

13 Nov 2024

Contributed by Lukas

A man's fertility plays 50% of the role in conception and staying pregnant (yes, sperm issues can affect miscarriage too) yet there is so little ...

#85: Body Safety and Talking to Your Kids About Sex

06 Nov 2024

Contributed by Lukas

This episode is sponsored by:Redmond Salt >> Use code HEALTHYMOTHER for 15% off Needed >> Use code HEALTHYMOTHER for  20% off Amazing Yo...

#84: PCOS, IVF, and Natural Toothpaste with Kori Estrada

30 Oct 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Today, Dr. Leah interviews Kori Estrada, co-founder of the natural toothpaste company RiseWell. Kori shares her personal story with PCOS and navigatin...

#83: All About Newborns Part 2

23 Oct 2024

Contributed by Lukas

We are talking all about newborns, part 2! In the second half of this exciting topic Dr. Morgan guides us through everything we need to know about new...

#82: All About Newborns Part 1

16 Oct 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Today Dr Leah interviewed Dr. Morgan all about newborns! As she is about to have her second baby, she needs a refresher on what to expect with a brand...

#81: Your Cycle: Using the Fifth Vital Sign as Birth Control with Lisa Hendrickson-Jack

09 Oct 2024

Contributed by Lukas

In this episode, Dr. Leah interviews Lisa Hendrickson-Jack, author of The Fifth Vital Sign and co-author of Real Food for Fertility. They talk all abo...

#80: Mentally Preparing for Pregnancy and Parenthood

02 Oct 2024

Contributed by Lukas

In this episode, we talk about how to prepare for pregnancy and parenthood! We get a lot of questions about what people can be doing ahead of time no ...

#79: Induction of Labor with Dr. Rebecca Dekker

25 Sep 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Induction of labor is an increasingly more and more common birth intervention that many women experience today. There are several medically indicated ...

#78: Lifestyle Hacks for Hormone Balancing

18 Sep 2024

Contributed by Lukas

In this episode, we break down the lifestyle hacks for hormone balance. What does the ideal day look like if you want to keep your hormones in balance...

#77: Life Updates

11 Sep 2024

Contributed by Lukas

It is officially season 6 of the Healthy As A Mother podcast! We love starting each new season with a little update from both of us, so here it is. Cu...

#76: Womanhood Journey To & Through Her Lupus Diagnosis with Tiffany Campbell Kaloustian

04 Sep 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Today we're joined by Functional Medicine Health Practitioner Tiffany Campbell Kaloustian. Tiffany shares not only her profound personal story of...

#75: How to Feed a Family with Cassy Joy Garcia

28 Aug 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Feeding ourselves and our families healthy, home-cooked meals can feel like a daunting task - especially when the planning and prepping revolve around...

#74: Painful Sex and Low Libido

21 Aug 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Low libido, or the desire to want to engage in intimacy, is way more common than you think. One of the root causes of low libido is painful sex. Today...

#73: Palate Expansion and Airway Dentistry with Dr. Dan Bruce

14 Aug 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Today Dr. Morgan interviews Dr. Dan Bruce, an airway-focused dentist, as we break down how the shape of the roof of our mouth, called our palate, toge...

#72: PMS and Painful Periods with Dr. Saru Bala

07 Aug 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Today's episode is all about PMS and painful periods. Is it normal to feel off before your period? When does it become a problem? What is causing...

#71: Immune System Support While Pregnant or Breastfeeding

31 Jul 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Getting sick while either pregnant or breastfeeding totally sucks. Not only is it hard to grow or care for young children while not feeling well, but ...

#70: PCOS, Mold, and Avoiding IVF with Dr. Natalie Underberg

24 Jul 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Today we talk all about PCOS, mold, and when IVF may not be needed with Dr. Natalie Underberg. PCOS is one of the leading contributors to female infer...

#69: Training for Birth with Krisha Crosley

17 Jul 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Carrying and birthing your baby is an inherently physical, and dang-near athletic event - and there are ways we can prepare our bodies to have the bes...

#68: Real Food for Fertility with Lily Nichols

10 Jul 2024

Contributed by Lukas

What should we be eating to boost our fertility? Today we unpack all things food and fertility with Registered Dietitian, Nutritionist, and popular au...

#67: All About VBAC pt. 2: Three VBAC Birth Stories

03 Jul 2024

Contributed by Lukas

This is the second part of a two-part series about VBAC, or, vaginal birth after cesarean. This episode highlights three very different VBAC birth sto...

#66: How Feminism Has Influenced Our Modern Culture & Hormones

26 Jun 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Today we have a thought-provoking and potentially controversial topic all about the feminism movements, our hormones, families, and our culture at lar...

#65: All About VBAC pt.1: Perspectives from an OB, Midwife, and Doula

19 Jun 2024

Contributed by Lukas

This is the first part of a two-part series all about VBAC, or vaginal birth after cesarean. In this episode, Dr Morgan interviews three different bir...

#64: Thyroid Health and Fertility with Dr. Hanisha Patel

12 Jun 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Did you know that your thyroid plays a massive role in fertility? Today we unpack the thyroid with Dr. Hanisha Patel and dive into low thyroid functio...

#63: Role Changes and Expectations within Fatherhood with Wes MacDermott

05 Jun 2024

Contributed by Lukas

Our special guest today is Morgan's husband, Wes, on to talk all about his perspective on fatherhood as a dad of four young children and who, hon...

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